Buck Cleven was completing a university degree in mathematics when he enlisted. He even taught a calculus class in the POW camp. The guy definitely had the knowledge to build a basic radio.
The P-51's engaged enemy fighters well away from the bomber formations so reducing the likelihood that friendly fire would shoot down the wrong planes. Later in the war the escorts were detached from the bomber streams entirely and roamed over Germany harassing enemy fighters in their assembly areas, over and on their airfields - all in an effort to prevent them from even attacking the bomber fleets. My father-in-law was a top turret gunner on B-17's flying from England to Germany in WWII. I believe he arrived later in the war, flew during the winter/spring of '44-45. I asked him if he ever shot down a fighter - he said they rarely saw a German fighter, if at all. Flak was the greatest danger and still knocked down many bombers, almost including his.
Thank you for this, and also thank your father in law. I couldn't get much out of my grandad besides he was a radioman in a 1st recon squad plane. Thank the ww2 US industrial might for p51s
Spot on comment. It was a bummer that the writers decided to ignore the tactical changes Doolittle made when he took over command of the 8th in Jan 44. The entire focus was on destroying the Luftwaffe and the most important air battles took place during this period.
Quinn and Bailey took over 6 to 8 months to get home. Shot down in august. Took around 5 to 6 months just to get into spain another month to get to gibralter and then back in UK within the month. In november 1943 in the local paper baileys parents received a medal on his behalf at that point though they hadnt heard anything about him in over 3 months
Colonel Bennett the one who took over and flew the mission as well was described as a robot or a machine ( in a good way). A bit like Clevan not wanting to bail out despite damage. One mission his entire electrical system was knocked out and in a nose dive somehow he managed to fix it then carry on with the mission. I may be misremembering though
Red cross packages could contain records, sports equipment etc In Britain MI9 was set up to specifically design escape materials which could be hidden in red cross packages and equipment given to prisoners.
The scene with the mail call. The one saying its a letter from his mom. He wrote her after he was initially captured , so that response to him took 5 to 6 months
The mission requirement change is actually a lot more complicated than what they say here. Everyone needed 30 credited missions. You were awarded extra mission credits based on the number of completed missions on a sliding scale. 15 or fewer and you got no extra credits, but the closer to 25 you were the more credits you got (e.g. someone with 16-17 missions would get 1 extra credit so they needed to complete 29 missions, someone with 23-25 would get 5 extra credits so they still only needed to do 25). This changed again several more times over the course of the war, and also notably was not consistent between different groups. In the Twelfth Air Force in the Med, the men had to complete 65 missions. Many of the occupied European nations had governments (and militaries) in exile in the UK. Poland for example, many of their pilots escaped through neutral countries early in the war and fought as the Polish Air Force, operating as an element of the French Air Force until the invasion of France and then in the Royal Air Force. The 50 men executed in the aftermath of the great escape were from 13 nations, including 6 Poles. Similar units were created in the Soviet Air Forces later in the war although these were not connected to the Polish government in exile in the UK, these units would be the ones that the post-war communist Polish People's Air Force would draw their heritage from. Also Stalingrad was the year prior :P
The camp was established in March 1942 near the town of Sagan, lower silesia, in what was then nazi Germany (now zagab Poland), 160 kilometres (100 miles) south-east of Berlin. The site was selected because its sandy soil made it difficult for POWs to escape by tunnelling.
The P-51 and Bf-109, from a distance, have a similar silhouette. Same kind of problem with the P-47 and Fw-190. A complication for the bomber crews and fighter pilots of either side. The P-38 was pretty unique looking. If you spotted them you could be more confident about what they were.
My husband's grandfather flew B-17's in the 8th. He was shot down in November '44 and was sent to Stalag Luft III where he spent the rest of the war. Its amazing to be able to see a depiction that brings that experience home. ETA: His navigator was interrogated by the Germans and shot. They believe it was because he had a Jewish sounding name.
Yeah unfortunately the food in the POW camps wasnt great except from red cross packages. E.g. the coffee was made from acorns and called Ersatz coffee. So to prevent starvation they would have anything so that cat became stew If i remember correctly, the senior british officer once asked for a cat or dog and was given a kitten he decided to call Ersatz ( as it was a substitute) unfortunately i need to read a particular book again to double check about his cat.
Quinn wrote an escape manual and helped train others back in the states. But sometimes escaped fliers that got back were transferred to fly in the pacific instead
I think the was a general in the tower when rosie and his crew decided to buzz the tower. 3 times as well haha. He even reduced the fine rosie and his crew received for buzzing the tower which was £500 at that time. Probably several thousand in todays money
It feels like Apple dropped the ball by not giving the team the budget they deserve. The acting, action, music is great, but most of the time, huge buildups of major event and character growth, are quickly resolved off screen. This should have been a 15 episode season or longer episodes. Still good but wish there was more
@732ReviewCrew Yes the CGI isn't perfect. Personally I don't mind it, I don't know if it depends on the screen you watch it. I am willing to give up some CGI budget to get more time to flesh out the storylines.
HBO, which backed both Band of Brothers and The Pacific, couldn't afford to back this series. The reason that it took so long to get done was there wasn't the technology to make it look even THIS is good. There's several interviews with the cast and Gary Goetzman, who produced all three mini series that explain this. This cost 250 million dollars to make. The hour plus interview with the cast and Gary with Josh Horowitz was very good and informative. Audio problems at the start.
From what I understand by watching historical documentaries, the Germans still had plenty of fighters available all through 1944 & 45. The destruction of the Lutwaffe had more to do with a complete lack of experienced pilots. The allies didn't shoot down all the planes ... they shot down all the good pilots. Near the end, the Germans sent up pilots who were barely trained. That was the end of the Lutwaffe. Of course the bombing had an effect on production. It just wasn't the slam dunk several of us thought.
The british managed to hide a lot of secret radios in stalag Luft 3 and americans and brits built a few as well. Two of my favourites are the one the brits hid in an accordian and another they hit in a model sail boat
Germany actually made more tanks, assault guns and tank destroyers in 1944 than in any other year. That's the ironic thing. German production stepped up despite the strategic bombing.
They easily could have written off Buck and Bucky once they were in the POW camp and focus on the actual air war. The stuff they ignored was the equivalent of ignoring the Battle of the Bulge in Band of Brothers. Sad really.
If you want to read a really good book on the real story of the British Great Escape , the build up, effort of construction, during and the aftermath from the perspective of one the escapees. See if you can get a copy of Moonless Night by B.A. "Jimmy" James. Absolutely fascinating story and one i think anyone wanting to know more would enjoy
Crosby alludes to the relationship in the book but doesnt go into detail about what they did per say. He also didnt tell his wife or admit to anything till his book which i think happened after her death
@732ReviewCrew the show also got permission from his family to include it. Unfortunately so little is known about alexandra ( possibly still classified) they can only go off crosbys book on her.
The P51 wasnt that great until they lent some to the british and a british Test pilot went what if we fit them with Rolls Royce Merlin engines instead ( same as spitfire and other planes) improved the performacne massively and made it the escort fighter needed
@732ReviewCrew the original engines the P-51 had were underpowered. The plane was good at low altitudes but not at high. After the merlin engine was fitted which was an exceptional engine it really improved it. Wouldn't say the best fighter in the war but up there
That's something for the future. Those shows are top tier, I will admit to having seen band of brothers 20+ times, the pacific just once. If we can get someone to join us who hasn't seen either we will absolutely!
Same with Black Hawk Down and Saving Private Ryan! My mom had a car with a TV when I was growing up, so you know the people behind me were witnessing dday every one in a while
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Buck Cleven was completing a university degree in mathematics when he enlisted. He even taught a calculus class in the POW camp. The guy definitely had the knowledge to build a basic radio.
Thank you, love to learn things like this
That and crystal radios used to be popular DIY science projects way back when. Today you can buy kits.
The P-51's engaged enemy fighters well away from the bomber formations so reducing the likelihood that friendly fire would shoot down the wrong planes. Later in the war the escorts were detached from the bomber streams entirely and roamed over Germany harassing enemy fighters in their assembly areas, over and on their airfields - all in an effort to prevent them from even attacking the bomber fleets. My father-in-law was a top turret gunner on B-17's flying from England to Germany in WWII. I believe he arrived later in the war, flew during the winter/spring of '44-45. I asked him if he ever shot down a fighter - he said they rarely saw a German fighter, if at all. Flak was the greatest danger and still knocked down many bombers, almost including his.
Thank you for this, and also thank your father in law. I couldn't get much out of my grandad besides he was a radioman in a 1st recon squad plane.
Thank the ww2 US industrial might for p51s
Spot on comment. It was a bummer that the writers decided to ignore the tactical changes Doolittle made when he took over command of the 8th in Jan 44. The entire focus was on destroying the Luftwaffe and the most important air battles took place during this period.
The 100th association released a photo of bucky during his time at stalag luft III recently and you could tell how much he had aged just in that photo
Just searched this photo. Wow. The portrayal is spot on but man he looks so tired
@@732ReviewCrew considering when it was taken not surprised
Quinn and Bailey took over 6 to 8 months to get home. Shot down in august. Took around 5 to 6 months just to get into spain another month to get to gibralter and then back in UK within the month.
In november 1943 in the local paper baileys parents received a medal on his behalf at that point though they hadnt heard anything about him in over 3 months
Colonel Bennett the one who took over and flew the mission as well was described as a robot or a machine ( in a good way). A bit like Clevan not wanting to bail out despite damage. One mission his entire electrical system was knocked out and in a nose dive somehow he managed to fix it then carry on with the mission.
I may be misremembering though
Red cross packages could contain records, sports equipment etc
In Britain MI9 was set up to specifically design escape materials which could be hidden in red cross packages and equipment given to prisoners.
Dont know how much they will be able to show about Rosenthal.. he is worthy a series about himself considering all he did and experienced in WWII.
After watching the most recent episode, it seems like not enough!!!
The scene with the mail call. The one saying its a letter from his mom. He wrote her after he was initially captured , so that response to him took 5 to 6 months
The mission requirement change is actually a lot more complicated than what they say here. Everyone needed 30 credited missions. You were awarded extra mission credits based on the number of completed missions on a sliding scale. 15 or fewer and you got no extra credits, but the closer to 25 you were the more credits you got (e.g. someone with 16-17 missions would get 1 extra credit so they needed to complete 29 missions, someone with 23-25 would get 5 extra credits so they still only needed to do 25). This changed again several more times over the course of the war, and also notably was not consistent between different groups. In the Twelfth Air Force in the Med, the men had to complete 65 missions.
Many of the occupied European nations had governments (and militaries) in exile in the UK. Poland for example, many of their pilots escaped through neutral countries early in the war and fought as the Polish Air Force, operating as an element of the French Air Force until the invasion of France and then in the Royal Air Force. The 50 men executed in the aftermath of the great escape were from 13 nations, including 6 Poles. Similar units were created in the Soviet Air Forces later in the war although these were not connected to the Polish government in exile in the UK, these units would be the ones that the post-war communist Polish People's Air Force would draw their heritage from.
Also Stalingrad was the year prior :P
Thank you so much
The camp was established in March 1942 near the town of Sagan, lower silesia, in what was then nazi Germany (now zagab Poland), 160 kilometres (100 miles) south-east of Berlin. The site was selected because its sandy soil made it difficult for POWs to escape by tunnelling.
The P-51 and Bf-109, from a distance, have a similar silhouette.
Same kind of problem with the P-47 and Fw-190.
A complication for the bomber crews and fighter pilots of either side.
The P-38 was pretty unique looking. If you spotted them you could be more confident about what they were.
My husband's grandfather flew B-17's in the 8th. He was shot down in November '44 and was sent to Stalag Luft III where he spent the rest of the war. Its amazing to be able to see a depiction that brings that experience home.
ETA: His navigator was interrogated by the Germans and shot. They believe it was because he had a Jewish sounding name.
Yeah unfortunately the food in the POW camps wasnt great except from red cross packages. E.g. the coffee was made from acorns and called Ersatz coffee. So to prevent starvation they would have anything so that cat became stew
If i remember correctly, the senior british officer once asked for a cat or dog and was given a kitten he decided to call Ersatz ( as it was a substitute) unfortunately i need to read a particular book again to double check about his cat.
Quinn wrote an escape manual and helped train others back in the states. But sometimes escaped fliers that got back were transferred to fly in the pacific instead
The Mighty Eight Air Museum outside of Savannah, GA would be a fantastic trip for y'all.
Crystal Radios were a common Boy Scout project in the 1960s, and probably before 1940 as well.
I think the was a general in the tower when rosie and his crew decided to buzz the tower. 3 times as well haha.
He even reduced the fine rosie and his crew received for buzzing the tower which was £500 at that time. Probably several thousand in todays money
It feels like Apple dropped the ball by not giving the team the budget they deserve. The acting, action, music is great, but most of the time, huge buildups of major event and character growth, are quickly resolved off screen. This should have been a 15 episode season or longer episodes. Still good but wish there was more
Also, the CGI is a bit off. It feels weird for a show based around planes, with amazing set design in the plane itself, but the planes have poor CGI
@732ReviewCrew Yes the CGI isn't perfect. Personally I don't mind it, I don't know if it depends on the screen you watch it. I am willing to give up some CGI budget to get more time to flesh out the storylines.
HBO, which backed both Band of Brothers and The Pacific, couldn't afford to back this series. The reason that it took so long to get done was there wasn't the technology to make it look even THIS is good. There's several interviews with the cast and Gary Goetzman, who produced all three mini series that explain this. This cost 250 million dollars to make. The hour plus interview with the cast and Gary with Josh Horowitz was very good and informative. Audio problems at the start.
From what I understand by watching historical documentaries, the Germans still had plenty of fighters available all through 1944 & 45. The destruction of the Lutwaffe had more to do with a complete lack of experienced pilots. The allies didn't shoot down all the planes ... they shot down all the good pilots. Near the end, the Germans sent up pilots who were barely trained. That was the end of the Lutwaffe.
Of course the bombing had an effect on production. It just wasn't the slam dunk several of us thought.
That makes a lot more sense. Thank you
The british managed to hide a lot of secret radios in stalag Luft 3 and americans and brits built a few as well.
Two of my favourites are the one the brits hid in an accordian and another they hit in a model sail boat
Germany actually made more tanks, assault guns and tank destroyers in 1944 than in any other year. That's the ironic thing. German production stepped up despite the strategic bombing.
Great one! The increase in flights needed... 👀💀
They easily could have written off Buck and Bucky once they were in the POW camp and focus on the actual air war. The stuff they ignored was the equivalent of ignoring the Battle of the Bulge in Band of Brothers. Sad really.
If you want to read a really good book on the real story of the British Great Escape , the build up, effort of construction, during and the aftermath from the perspective of one the escapees. See if you can get a copy of Moonless Night by B.A. "Jimmy" James. Absolutely fascinating story and one i think anyone wanting to know more would enjoy
Crosby alludes to the relationship in the book but doesnt go into detail about what they did per say. He also didnt tell his wife or admit to anything till his book which i think happened after her death
Ah.... Crosby :(
@732ReviewCrew the show also got permission from his family to include it. Unfortunately so little is known about alexandra ( possibly still classified) they can only go off crosbys book on her.
Thanks guys.
The P51 wasnt that great until they lent some to the british and a british Test pilot went what if we fit them with Rolls Royce Merlin engines instead ( same as spitfire and other planes) improved the performacne massively and made it the escort fighter needed
Love these bits of info
@732ReviewCrew the original engines the P-51 had were underpowered. The plane was good at low altitudes but not at high. After the merlin engine was fitted which was an exceptional engine it really improved it.
Wouldn't say the best fighter in the war but up there
Always looking forward to your reactions. Even though you've seen it, hope you could do Band of Brothers and The Pacific on this channel too.
That's something for the future. Those shows are top tier, I will admit to having seen band of brothers 20+ times, the pacific just once. If we can get someone to join us who hasn't seen either we will absolutely!
@@732ReviewCrew Seeing Band of Brothers for 20+ times is so relatable!
Same with Black Hawk Down and Saving Private Ryan!
My mom had a car with a TV when I was growing up, so you know the people behind me were witnessing dday every one in a while
Buck knew calculus😮
Jeeze, Cros is more than 2500 miles from home, it's technically not cheating . . .
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