Still polishing with a rotary? THIS could change your mind!
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- Опубликовано: 21 июл 2024
- Rotary polisher, or dual action? Is one better than the other? Is one safer than the other? We address these questions and more to help you decide which machine to use.
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A skilled rotary buffer guy would do better job specially the depth of the color and time to finish.
I love your videos Todd. Too much information. Direct, straight to the point. Thank you so much
I barely started detailing and started with the DA and can I say it gets the job done. My dad switched from Rotary to DA and he recommended I buy one as well 👍🏽
Ever since I only used a rotary but I just ordered my first DA with 15mm throw. Hope I can step up my game by having both machines in my arsenal
You are absolutely correct re body shop guys vs detail guys. I converted to DA a few years ago but hated giving up my rotary simply because I was so comfortable with it. Grin. I still use my rotary on gel coat on large yachts.
Gelcoat dictates a rotary.
Not everyone can use a buffer but everyone can use a DA
Your explanation is awesome.
Sometimes the simple answers say so much more than is written
Thanks
This was wonderful! It's the first of your videos I've seen, and it was much clearer and more interesting than pretty much all the others I've watched. You are such a good teacher - enthusiastic, interesting, energetic, and clear in your explanations without being overly wordy. Thanks!! I'm about to buy the DeWalt DCM848 DA (orbital) cordless polisher. I'm going to ceramic coat my car. I'm at a loss, as a complete beginner, to know how to find compounds specific to DA. Also, of course, how to figure out which to use, and what steps to go through, for my 11-month-old Corolla. Any pointers or suggestions would be much appreciated. About all I understand so far is that 99% of the work is in the paint prep, and 1% is in wiping on the SIO2 compound. :-) However, what will my 99% consist of, what steps and what chemicals? Anyway, despite my beginner's ignorance, I really appreciated your video. I opened a few of your others and will watch them asap.
Thanks for the positive feedback! Take a look on our website for Sonax Perfect Finish and Rupes yellow polishing pads. You will find videos on them as well. And for coating, look at our Kamikaze Miyabi Coat. All of these will provide you great results, and unequalled ease of use. We have over 400 videos available, so I'm sure you can find a lot of useful information that's all based off of proven results in a busy, high-end detailing business. www.esotericcarcare.com
Thank you very much for the information! I never use the DA polisher machine before. Still prefer to use flex rotary for my paint correction
I use a forced rotation DA.. Not made by Flex.
It's the man on the tool not the name on the tool that matters.
Great video, Todd and i completely agree. This week, however, I am working on a moderately oxidized RV. For the first time in many years I broke out my rotary and wool. I did 3 test spots, 2 DA and 1 rotary and am saving time with the rotary. I wouldn't say it's dead but relegated to maybe 2% of my business.
There's always outliers for sure!
If you detail a really oxidized boat, then rotary is mandatory
Everything has its place. But like I said elsewhere, I think many of us who are properly trained and skilled with a rotary, still use a DA 98% of the time these days. Love a rotary for glass and lamps still, but the rotary is broken out rarely these days.
i commented on one of your other videos. i believe i have my answer after watching this one. thank you sir
I have a rotary that I have used maybe 5 times in the last 10 years and only on highly oxidized single stage paints just to knock down the heavy stuff... I finish up with my Griot's Boss 15.
i agree knocking down heavy damage using a rotary and a wool pad with a good compound then washing car and switching to a good DA and polish makes the most sense...
Use what ever feels good to ya, my rotary is heavy & aggressive so now i use my DA its light smooth & easy 😉👌
I love polishing it fun to me i just did my moms 04 rav4 came out almost looking new
Thank you! Great advice! DA is my choice!
Very informative as usual. Thank you.
Still have my porter cable with country pads.
I enjoy both. Lhr19, lhr21mk3, and ibrid covers just about every scenario I am ever faced with. If I was selling the machines I would absolutely be pushing the DA's though.
Great video; you said it with your chest will really help in making a decision!!!
Rotaries have always intimidated me. Before my flex 3401, I used a cyclo dual head polisher. I still do from time to time. Great video. Very thorough. Stay safe(coronavirus) be well.
I thought i was safe from the C word, but there it is again, damnit. Flex 3401 is amazing by the way.
Hey Jay, I used a Cyclo from 1988 until 2015 and got a 3401.....I hated it. Sold it. I recently got the new Flex XCE Beast and LOVE it. Much smoother.
Amsterdamnster Kush You gave Me a great idea!! Maybe I’ll finish My Vette with The Cyclo!!! 😬😬😎😎😎😎. Thank You.
Not surprised this would be his opinion on Rotaries. I have Rupes and it good at finishing for the skilless and nob.
Too funny.
Funny thing I leaned on a FLAX Rotary lol when I had no clue what I was using- I did two of my cars with it.. sold it for my Rupes Mark 3 Big foot lol
Was it a Flex Rotary??? They spin counter clockwise, which is not how everything else spins so that sometimes in a little issue... They have the best direct drive but even they are not full direct drive like their Rotary machines are...
If you had no clue what you were doing with a Rotary, too bad you could not get some help...
Myself, I want the pad to be Direct Drive so I can correct faster and finish even faster still... Have to be willing to take the time to learn how to use it.
Hi todd. Love the rotary but was cranking long throw da's back in 2008 too. Remember the dynabrade long throw. I think a da is awesome for almost all jobs but a rotary sometimes comes in handy Rotary is easy to use but hard to master. I can do two steps with a rotary no problem but its not always ideal. Ive mastered the tool after 27 years. What the rotary is great at is edge work and doing areas a 15 or 21mm large da cant do without banging into door handles and mirrors. Both tools rock but the da is very good for one steps, the money maker for most detailers
Not many remember the dynabrade.
Perhaps if most detailers like to take a lot Longer- to finish a vehicle, use your D/A..
I can do all of it in 1 step all the time with my Rotary...
Just so you know, Nobody who is a real Detailer is taking the vehicle out in the sun, we have Real Great Lights inside!!! Geez, dont you people have inside lights??
Lots of time to master???? Why???? A year plus???? Are you guys just really slow at learning???
@@frandanco6289 Ego much?
@@frandanco6289
One step with a rotary?
Baloney...
Thanks Todd. I think your channel is a great hub for detailing. I have heard many folks share the horror stories about the potential that a rotary has to "burn through" the paint. Those stories are why I strayed from those polishers and learned on a cheap Harbor Freight DA. I still have yet to buy that first rotary. I am now asking myself, "Why buy it?. Are you unhappy with the results you get from your DA polishers". I am not. If I am ever unhappy with my work, it is because of my choices that have little to do with my DA's. After seeing this video, I am leaning more toward the idea that I do not need the rotary. I want to continuously improve. I just don't need to complicate that any further, so why do it?
Your thought process and reasoning is solid, indeed!
@@Esotericdetail Another example of people being scared of the Rotary and you add to there fears only to sell your products. I don't blame you. I would to if it's making me $$
@@franco12954 You're a bit off base on this one. We also sell rotaries! But the fact is that hardly nobody in the high end detailing world still uses a rotary, and the sales of those tools have long since died...
Thank you! I just purchased a rupes 21. Thought I needed a rotary as well. I'll just perfect my skills.
In my world, both have their place. I have gotten panels to over 95 gloss with rotary and the Gyeon Primer. With my DA's, I can only get to 94. Again, that's really splitting hairs, but it's kinda fun to do when you have the time🙂
But reality is that like everyone else that can do a rotary finish, I use the DA 98% of the time.
The Meguiars microfibre cutting disks completely changed everything when it came to paint correction with a DA. I remember everyone being hyped about them when they came out because now you can do heavy paint correction without having to pull out the rotary. I still have my Makita and Simoniz rotary polishers but hardly ever need to touch them. It scares me how many people out there have no idea what they’re doing but yet still reach for a rotory
Awesome video sir 👍🏼👍🏼
Thank you!
I started out on rotary in 1999, It took me about a year just to get good at it and get a good result, I can get pretty close to the same results as a DA but once you go over with Panel wipe and get all the polish off you can see it really doesn't finish as good as the DA.... close but no cigar.
If I have really bad paintwork to work on I first go with a Rotary for a fast cut and accuracy with a premium pad and compound, then finish off with a DA also with a premium pad and a AIO compound/Polish.
We so need a Todd versus Yvan Lacroix matchup on a test panel, lol. Yvan is a huge proponent of cutting with a long throw DA and finishing with a rotary. Have the panel compounded by an independent detailer who has no idea which side of the panel Yvan will be working on or which side Todd will be on, put a tape line down the middle and let Todd and Yvan have one step to finish their side of the panel and measure the difference with the DOI and also have some independent judges who have no idea which side was done by which and they judge which is better. I know this will probably never happen but I would pay admission to watch it mostly because I am very curious which would win and I think Todd and Yvan are both among the top 1% of detailers.
Many years ago we did compounding with the DA, and finishing with a rotary. But when DA technology, pad technology, and polish technology improved, we found no need for the rotary anymore because that bridge was gapped. Over the years we have done trials using the DOI meter comparing the two machines, and found no measurable differences.
fantastic comment
@@Esotericdetail superb reply! THANKS!
DA for life. I have been detailing since 2006. I haven't found a job yet that my mighty DA couldn't handle. Have you ever used Red ball by production? Very heavy compound. Works great
Love redball works great, thank god I have production in my town!😀
I use long throws 95% of the time, but sometimes i do the edge work with rotary. It is easier with rotary since most of the cut is on the outer edge of the pad and you dont have to worry about the da movement.
We teach edging techniques on a DA as part of our course. Extremely effective, and much safer than a rotary. And it saves time since we're not grabbing for different machines.
As a detailer, I was trained on the rotary and used it for over twenty years, I've been using the DA for the past five years, DA is the best choice, the technology in compounds and DA is much better, with the option of one step correction is the only way to go, in comparison the DA is superior, thanks todd
Years of experience with rotary, I'm thinking of going to D/A. Rupes lh15r or the Mille?
@@rajivsewnandan4865 ,good choice, your not going to regret it, I still use a rotary once in while, another advantage in using a DA is, it doesn't wear you out physically, DA are much lighter, good luck rajiv.
@@h1989w7373 yes bud, love my Makita but he's gotten heavy over the years lol
@@rajivsewnandan4865 ,yes they do get heavy over the years, and we get older too, loling!
@@rajivsewnandan4865 I'd go with the LH21R or LH15R to start out.
Mille' won't finish out as good but it is more accurate and can do a larger section being Gear Driven, closer to a rotary for accuracy.
Body shop guy here we use rotary cus we block sand the paint post paint job to refine the finish and buffing sand scratches out just feels better. We do use foam pads tho.
Great to the point info, thanks!
Good job like a video straight into it
I was born and raised on a rotary. I do have a DA but you can not beat a rotary. I have and old school Hitachi rotary I bought 30 years ago and also a newer model Rupes. I could not detail without them.
John
There's nothing wrong with a rotary if that's what you like using. I just don't know too many rotary people who have chosen to stick with it after they've found out what modern DA polishers can do when teamed up with the right techniques, pads, and polishes.
Now I am gonna get rid of rotary but next year when I sell most of my polishes I bought but in a garage sell because I don't need all of it. Then will get a dual action polisher and some other tools gonna sell. Just don't want to have too many tools one day stored because this year been buying tools but I don't have a lot though.
I'll throw this into the mix. I found for polishing windshields that the rotary with a 3" glass pad and Ceriglass works best. I can get to the edge better and cut/polish better.
Totally agree. Glass polishing was what got me going as a professional. Water spots are horrible in my area, so advertising with an emphasis on glass correction got a lot of attention. I see glass so bad it's borderline dangerous to drive.
But I almost never touch actual glass correction with anything but a rotary. It is possible with a DA, but you're wasting a lot of time if you're going after anything but light etching and water marks with most DAs. Plus you can tilt the rotary and get edges and tight spots much easier. I like and use CeriGlass, but I buy the super cheap Cerium powder and make my own if I'm going after alot of actual scratches.
What pads do you use, do you prefer rayon or felt pads? Have you tried the glass cutting specific pads from LC? Haven't tried them and curious if they're more effective than standard glass pads.
@@jdisdetermined I use the rayon pads
Absolutely agree with you, Platinum Auto Glass & Window Tint !!!
Nothing beats Direct Drive in the hands of one who knows how to use it..
All the industries that make airplanes, boats, all the vehicles of every type at the assembly stage only use Rotary Power for a reason... It is fast, it gets perfect correction, and you are done and the vehicle, etc., keeps going down the assembly line...
No time for whatever name it is random orbital machines here... Need perfect results and need them now, not hours later...
@@frandanco6289 You’re completely discounting forced rotation DA’s or even long throw random orbitals for that matter. Someone correct me if I’m wrong. Additionally Mike Phillips teaches that the reason production lines prefer a wool pad on a rotary IS indeed for the very fast cutting but they understand that it can’t produce a perfect finish. Trust me, after working on a production line in the RV industry for 4 years, the word “perfect” is not in their vocabulary. It’s all about getting it finished and out the door, and on to the next one.
100% agree.
My 3" battery powered rotary is only used for glass and lamps.
I even use my 3" with regular Auto Glanz glass cleaner and a black polishing pad during my regular washes. Takes a few minutes and my glass is perfect inside and out.
Yea I just started detailing and using a makita rotary buffer for a month or so and these def seem like the way to go just got mine delivered today
Rotary's are scary aren't they
I feel as as I can "finesse" my work a little easier with a rotary. Its just more fun for some reason.
I get that.
@@cohenkane2148 They are scared of burning paint
@@franco12954 Good! They should, be very very afraid. It means they suck. Be afraid of sucking. Newbs, pfft. Ha
I work at a car hospital with a major car manufacturer and all of us use Mirka DA polishers except for an old school guy who swears on using the rotary he brings from home. Both deliver amazing results when used properly but as you stated, it's a ford vs chevy war.
Splendid 👏🏼 demo and info thank you 👍🏼 from England 🏴
Glad it was helpful!
Loved it,Thanks.
Great video, I don't see too many comparisons with the random orbital which I feel is the perfect in between
Today I began to watch and listen very carefully to your videos, (you are simply an artist in or referring to automotive aesthetics, I admire you) I have a detailing workshop in Argentina, I love orbitals, porter cable, griots garage g9, Rupes 21 mark3, rupes 15 mark3 the mini lhr75e, nano ibrid long neck, my big question is ...... do you recommend or use in RUPES, THE FAMOUS WASHER ??? washing machine mode? Works better ? cut faster and better? Thank you very much Claudio from Giscardetailing.
Thank you excellent video. You answered all my questions.
I am switching to a DA polisher now you have to have it on a lower speed and it only goes from side to side. I still have my rotary though but getting my DA tommorow. I should of got a DA in the first olace.
Started with a Flex DA for 5 years, then went to rotary and never going back. I can cut faster and get a better finish with my rotary than I ever could with a DA in a fraction of the time. But that is because I have the skill and techniques dialed in perfectly. If you are running a business with multiple employees then yes I can see a DA being worthwhile. But its just me. And when the other shop cant get it right, they come to me to fix it.
So, I learned on a DA and have had good results. However, when I moved over to doing a business that predominantly does fire apparatus. With the paint that is used on these trucks, I found the only way I could achieve results with the hard paint, was with a rotary. I changed pads, compounds, even purchased the Rupes Mille, to power through in hopes of making progress. Todd, I'm curious to hear your thoughts on this and suggestions, because as you said the learning curve for teaching anyone to help me, well you know where I'm going with this. Thank you again for all the info you always provide.
I guess it depends on what level of polishing you're going for on these trucks. I would imagine that making them look "better" is the goal, as opposed to near perfection-level, but correct me if I am wrong. If my assumption is correct, then couldn't you do just an aggressive 1-step process with the DA? It all comes down to the levels of expectation, and remembering that detailing is more than two levels (washing, or full correction).
@@Esotericdetail Well For me, I am restoring the apparatus and then afterwards, educating the crews on changes they can make to keep the appearance of their trucks up to that show finish. As you know these trucks are big purchases for departments, and they are always on display. One of the things I was brought in to do, was removed the years of swirls, from using truck brushes with no grit guards, or even very used brittle brushes on the trucks. So we did a test on an older truck, which was brought back to a high glossy finish. Ceramic coated, and now the truck sitting next to a new truck by 10 years, looks so much better then the one than the new truck. We also put a pressure washer in that station and moved them towards a better wash system. But as to the Swirls, I went through many different combinations, till the rotary was the best result to remove the swirls on the very very hard surface.
Another Great video, you guys Really Know your stuff. I learn soo much from listening to these videos. I'm fairly new to paint correction. I had a question...... Please. What about removing heavy oxidation and haze on a Boat. Would a DA paired with a wool pad and heavy cut compound be enough to cut through gelcoat??
It's just like any other job...you won't know for sure until you try it. Each job requires a few test sections to find what is going to give you the desired results. I'm sure there would be some that requires heavier, and others that would work fine.
I’m a little old school, I prefer picking up a rotary. Call me nuts, I just can’t match with what I can do with a rotary regarding finishing down. I’ve came very close but to me DA drops in gloss ever so slightly. With that being said most of my work is done with a DA, because that’s all the car and client calls for.
For me it’s like bulk vs templates, they both have their place.
Awesome video sir. Thanks for the explanations
Thanks, and glad you enjoyed the video!
ok, DA it is, now does one go with the Rupes 15 or 21? In the long run which is the better choice?
hoy empecé a ver y escuchar muy atento sus videos, (simplemente usted es un artista en o que se refiere a estética automotor , lo admiro) tengo un taller de detailing en Argentina, amo las orbitales, porter cable, griots garage g9, Rupes 21 mark3 , rupes 15 mark3 la mini lhr75e , nano ibrid cuello largo, mi gran pregunta es ...... usted recomienda o usa en RUPES, LA FAMOSA ARANDELA ??? modo lavadora ? Funciona mejor ? corta mas rápido y mejor ? mil gracias Claudio de Giscardetailing.
I use rotary for cut and DA for finishing but you don't talk about that, if you cut with a rotary the heat don't get as high and you don't stress the paint as much if you ask me
The shearing temperatures need to be in the 150+ range before you have to start worrying about any paint issues, and proper use of a DA, even in the compounding stage, shouldn't get temperatures anywhere near that range. So it's a non-issue.
@@Esotericdetail no you shouldn't be anywhere near that. To me the rotary is still the better machine for cutting and the DA for finishing. I do a lot of daily drivers here in Denmark and they are trash compared to what people show from the states a DA would take way to long to cut some of the paint I see
Thanks Todd, I agree with you to a point, but.... there are some cases, because of certain contours on different vehicles, the orbital just stalls and gets very frustrating, I’ve identified these area’s and hit them with a forced rotation polisher first, then go back to the orbital, .. my polishers are a Rupes 15 and 21, also use a Flex and 3m, for wet sanding I really like the Mirca with Trizact. Point being, they all have a place and application in my box.
We have zero issues with contours, regardless of how dramatic they are. It's all in the technique...
Ya okay, .....Guys, try a forced rotation machine
Great video for me as I am new to detailing. Looking for the options for BOATS and require cordless. Need cutting and polishing, can this be done with same machine?
I have not used any cordless but perhaps if you a zillion extra batteries, chargers, and they can take the extreme work it takes to correct and finish gelcoat, I guess you might make it..
But if you just spent a little money compared to those hugely expensive battery powered machines, and got a good Rotary with a lot of extension cords, and learned how to use it on gelcoat with the right products, you would be years ahead and have spent way less $$$. There is always shore power at every boat dock, so you dont have to worry about that part..
Yes, portables are probably more handy, but look at the motor... Is it big enough to handle badly oxidized gelcoat??? Nothing in the world is worse than that..
A good Rotary will breeze through, has a great big motor, those other things, I dont think they have as much going for doing full on boat work.. Perhaps the little trim, etc., stuff inside, the glass, yes, but the nasty gelcoat, good luck with this..
I worked at a Mercedes dealership for a while and I used both of the buffers in this video and it’s a matter of what you start off with the dewalt is what I started off with and I loved it and you just gotta get used to it and the Bigfoot we would use as a secondary polishing step after the dewalt especially on darker paint colors
I have paint corrected all the German cars in the hundreds and nothing but Rotary Power on all of them.. It is an art just like real professional Detailing is, but if you take the time to learn it, and dont mind getting a lot stronger in your upper body, having way bigger forearms, biceps and shoulders, then the Rotary is there and easily more efficient in the right experienced hands...
I paint cars for a living and I wet sand and buff them after I'm done. I cut the whole car with a wool pad on a rotary and then step down to a rupes Bigfoot 21 and the result is awesome👌👌👌
Everyone knows Bigfoot is a myth.
@@2_MinutesOfAviation I love using rotary and when it comes to DA’s Rupes has and knows they have a larger oscillation throw (with power) and they charge more because of it. In Translation, the bigger the throw, the quicker and better are the results (with enough power). I own machines from all variations and don’t mind spending money to make more money. Rupes is worth it. Just buy the ones you truly need, not all the models they sell
For heavily scratched cars I use my rotary with G3 compound ,the switch to the DA to finish off
I do have a Rupes though and bought it just to give it a shot. If I have a lot of time to waste and want to eliminate any chances of damaging or burning or showing my granddaughters how to clean their car I will use Rupes. Now on my own cars or for-profit detailing the Dewalt and Makita Rotaries I've had for years are my staple.
Once you get the system / technique down, and when comparing apples to apples, you'll find that saying the rotary is "faster" is a myth.
thanks. you helped me with my decision
I use both quite frequently. I do feel when I'm sanding back, the Rotary with 3 step correction gets a better finish out of it then the orbital. It could be I just haven't found the right compounds for the DA.
I rather do a 3 step correction then do a 2 step with a da and not quite get the result I'm looking for. It's probably the perfectionist in me but I just seam to get a better result with rotary. But the DA is fantastic and easy to use, not as much strain on the body, also achieve quick results. I just prefer the Rotary for the jobs that require finesse
3-steps are a thing of the past. I would also agree that you haven't combined the right products and techniques. We can do a 2-step DA process to perfection, and any additional polishing by a rotary won't make improvements (proven with a DOI meter).
@@Esotericdetail Hello, I think this myth comes from first rotary step, when I do 2 step I always start with rotary (pad and compound depend on paint demage) and I noticing there is much more paint leveling with rotary compounding vs DA compounding, I mean orange peel leveling, fortunately we have Perfect finish (which work almost every time) which is able to finish even very agresive wool compounding on rotary, best of both world!s :)
About 10 years ago I did a lot of compounding (M105) on a porter cable DA with an aggressive foam pad, and then I would go back to jewel the paint using a rotary and a finishing pad and fine polish (Menzerna grey stuff I forgot the name). The DA was unable to achieve the kind of gloss some of the ultra fine polish was designed for. I was not a pro, but I did not have issues using a rotary for the finishing step. I never shared this information with anybody. But this is the first time I hear someone actually did that and I wasn't alone!
Thanks Todd. Just had my Accord coupe repainted and getting ready to do a color correction. Have the old Porter DA for this job using your Jescar & Sonax combo for the two-step process. I am thinking about getting a Rupes DA. Just working on my car, what Rupes model would you suggest I look at?
The Porter Cable can do anything the Ruppes can do, it just takes longer to get it done.
Absolutely Spot On 👌
Thank you 🙌
I have a rotary planing on using it for 1 steps with rupes yellow and perfect finish
A mí en lo personal prefiero el paso de corte con rotativa se me hace más rápido para la eliminación de rayones profundos y después de esto meto un da de 15 mm así logro refinar y abrillantar todo el daño causado por un rotativo también todo depende mucho del tipo de barniz,ya que en bajos solidos como los asiáticos con un da sale la mayoría del daño algunas veces
i own both but only really use the rotary for deep scratches/oxidation like boats and rvs or a really neglected car/truck. always finish with the dual action tho. seems to go faster if you use both. Rotary for heavy cutting and compounding and dual action for polishing, applying sealants. if it’s just a one step correction i won’t even touch the rotary tho. just my two cents.
Thank you for being direct awesome video
Thank you!
id personally use a rotary on something bare metal, say a truck gas tank, where you would prefer to use the edge of the pad rather than the main surface
and i would use a da polisher on anything painted, because i think it just leaves a much better finish without more work, it cuts out a lot of time spent getting things right
I use both rotary and da on a daily basis. I find it for efficient to cut heavy scratched vehicles with a rotary then polish through with a da.
Do you have that many customers who are paying for multi-stage, restorative-level correction?
Great review, but I'm still sticking with my rotary as I'm trying to stay away from having multiple machines (budget problem, mainly) and still appreciate the simple change of backing plate size to attack various paint problems.
You are correct, Chak Wo Wu !!! I just have a small spacer on the end of the Rotary Shaft and I can do anything with backing plates and pads down to 1 inch, all day long...
And you are 100% correct this guy has no idea what he is talking about ,rotary is the best...
I've always been a rotary guy when I got started d/a's were for waxing and didn't even do that well, I may be old school but I hate the feel of the dual action
I use the rotery one , the da i don't like that much. And i only make two steps .buffing and polishing.thats it no swirls. I took long time to look for an excellent polish correction . But it was worth the search
I used to detail showroom certified pre-owned cars for local luxury dealerships about 8 years ago but that was in the days of using a rotary for me. Took a lot of trial and error, and mastering techniques and having a good eye to get halo free results. But despite all that I just ordered a Rupes Mille to jump into the new age of paint care as a hobby. This is good info
If you actually know what your doing with the Rotary you don't worry about having good eye for swirls, and the luxury cars you really don't have much buffing to do mainly just polishing It. Just more scary for some people that's why they invented them slow time consuming machines
Sir, I enjoyed the video; thank you for producing it. Question: For advanced defects in paint isn't using the rotary machine a more aggressive and quicker way to get to the finish line?
Thank you. In some cases, yes, in other cases, no. It's not always just about the time to do the necessary cutting, it's also about how much refinement work is required afterwards. So while you (might) save a little time on the heavy cutting stage, you may require even more time with 2 steps afterwards to get it to finish perfectly. But with the DA, you typically only need one finishing stage even after a very aggressive cutting stage.
Greg Jackson -- Direct Drive will always be faster, correct, and finish faster.. You just have to want, repeat, Want to learn how to use it... A rotary will be able to change backing plates and pads all the way down to 1 inch... I am not sure all random orbitals do that, but perhaps they do...
I only use Rotary Power and nothing scares me or fazes me.. My best friend the best Boat Detailer in the Pacific Northwest also only uses Rotary Power, and that oxidized gel coat is absolutely the worst thing you would ever want to do..
But he routinely turns out perfect, flat, clear, glossy gelcoat on any color, especially gloss black boats...
Good luck with your research !!
@@EsotericdetailIf you know what your doing you can finish all three steps in less than half the time you would with DA
@@franco12954 Finishing takes time, whether it be with a rotary or a DA. So if you think you can speed through rotary finish polishing, we're not talking about the same level of finishing. Physics still exist with a rotary...this is coming from somebody who spent a lot of time mastering rotary polishing,.
Dear Todd , I want to start to learn on how to correct micro and minor scratches plus polishing before coating and ppf installing, so I do have a rotary which is new and not used , so do you suggest me to start with it to master the job or get fresh start with orbital dual action you call ? thanks for the advice
Your learning curve will be much smaller with a dual action machine than it is with a rotary. The rotary will work fine for you, but it takes a lot longer to really figure it out. Best of luck!
I have a dewalt rotary I just finished painting my truck i color sanding it with 800 then 1,000 1500 followed by 2000 grit I use the 3M perfect ex compound I waited two months after I painted it to color sand would I be able to with one of those dual action buffer to buff my truck do you think it would take me less time and perhaps do a better job
With the right combinations, the DA will serve you well. I wouldn't recommend any of the 3M compounds or polishes though...
I was going to get a rotary for head light corrections/windshields. what combo would be good for headlight corrections with a DA?
If you're doing mobile work, there's no way around having a rotary for headlights. But if you have a shop with a powerful air compressor, I'd use the Rupes LHR75 pneumatic all day long! You could try a few different combination, but their new blue wool pads would be good for the cutting stage. As for windshields, I really don't see much need for that myself. In all the years I have been in business, I can count on one hand the amount of requests I have had for that service, and still have a few fingers remaining. :)
Hi nice video, two questions? For doing boats what is your take on rotary then? And for me working in detail many years ago we used the Flex top tool M1 double disc orbital machine, why use a DA instead of Top tool? Is it that you just need one machine? Thanks from Sweden!😊
We don't work on boats, so can't reply on that one. We prefer the feel and performance of the long-throw Rupes machines over anything else.
I've got the Duramax rotary and Tork Long throw 15mm DA polisher. Haven't used either yet. But I had a 8mm short throw da I used till burnt up but it was too slow to do the jobs
We used 8mm throw DA machines in the early days, and it sure was nice when the 15 and 21mm machines hit the market!
One more good thing Todd. Im WW, the Polisher is quite heavy for me. The DA weigh is better for my back. Could you plis identify the lighter DA on market?
You should look at something like the Rupes Duetto! www.esotericcarcare.com/rupes-lhr12-duetto-one-step-polishing-kit/
Great video, thanks friend!!..
Part of the problem converting to the d/a in a production body shop aka insurance specific shop is the cost of material. Most shops I know strongly consider the cost of the compounds as well as the pads not to mention how quickly a detailer goes through them every week. Some shops even have a provided list of material that you are not allowed to steer away from in every department. How efficient is this system in dealing with solvent pop and dye back issues as well as runs in the clear coat after painting? Keep in mind as you're probably already aware, most shop managers want you to finish the paint corrections in least amount of time possible. Usually 30-45 minutes a vehicle at best on larger jobs and 10-15 minutes on smaller jobs
Apples and oranges in that situation as body shops are not going for nearly the same level of finish as detailers. Most people who claim how much "quicker" rotary polishing is are just doing a heavy cut with no finish polishing at all. 30 minutes is not paint correction, it's simply running a machine across the surface.
We use DA for cutting and rotary for finishing.
We used to do that as well years ago until machine, pad, and polish technologies caught up.
While spinning the rotary. You can perform the rotary like a Dual action by manual moving your hands a little forward and backward handling to rotary.
dont do that you will create haze and rotary marks
What about the Toyota of the bunch - the forced rotation DA? (like the Rupes Mille or Flex 3401) I have used each type of machine and I prefer the forced rotation or fixed gear DA because it is the best of both worlds in my opinion. Probably doesn't cut quite as fast as a rotary or finish out quite as fast as a free spinning DA but it sits right in the middle.
Most people (including us) simply don't like the feel of a forced rotation machine. There's nothing against them, but we prefer the complete control you get with a true DA.
Todd, really great explaination. Hopefully companies like Rupes and Flex can educate the body shops on the benefits of a DA, that would benefit us all, as sales volumes go up price usually comes down.
I know that they work hard at it, but there are so many body shops that you just can't get to them all, and on top of that, most of them are stuck in their ways. If they don't think it's broken, you won't get them to fix it by making a big investment into a lot of equipment and learning.
I’m not changing a damn thing. Rotary works for me. Why would I change it up to a noob friendly tool.
Why? Because you can get great results. Not many professional, high-level detailers use rotary anymore other than to spin-dry pads!
I wish they would talk about doing yachts and dealing with gelcoat and which is best to use.
Sorry, we don't work on boats...not much water here in central Ohio!
@@Esotericdetail LOL, yeah gotcha.
Another great, informative video from this channel. I'm a DA user. It's a great machine and it doesn't vibrate anywhere near as much as many people say. Just 2 questions, though. Are you still using Sonax's Perfect Finish for 1-step corrections? If so, then what is the difference between the Perfect Finish and their EX-04-06 that I'm thinking of pulling the trigger on?
Thank you. Yes we are, and we do have videos talking about the differences. To summarize, Perfect Finish provides a better finish, and is much easier to wipe from the surface than 04-06. It's the premium of the two, but its performance is also superior.
@@Esotericdetail Thanks a lot. You've just helped me save £45 on a litre of polish. I'll stay with the Perfect Finish. Cheers.
Perfect Finish was was designed for use with ROTARY polishers and EX-04-06 was designed for DUAL ACTION polishers.
What Evolve said is correct, and also what Esoteric said is correct. The 04-06 is still good stuff and it will achieve nearly identical results as perfect finish but it is not as nice to work with and is much more difficult to wipe off than perfect finish (although it still wipes off easier than many other brands) but the perfect finish is really the perfect polish no matter what machine it is used with.
Thanks so much
What about the capability of a DA vs rotary on freshly sanded clear coat? I have never been able to bring the gloss up with a DA. Is it technique, pad selection, compound selection or combination or is the DA just not the right tool for this application? Thanks in advance. Very informative video.
I've never had issues with that, but yes, you need to have the right combination of tools, pads, compounds, and techniques. I've taken 1500 sanding and follow that with one compounding process, and one finish polishing process to a perfect finish with a DA. Using a 21mm throw machine like the Rupes LHR21 with a 5" backing plate on it will also increase your chances of success. A short throw machine won't do you much good in those cases.
That dewalt u got there is a killer machine.
I have that ans use just for cut.
It is fantastic
Low Rpm 600 to 1200 its enough.
Good pad and u cut fast.
The machine is strong and i recommended.
By the way yes u can easy master the DA but u get the Jeday degree with the rotary...
Hi
Am beginner for car polishing.i plan to buy a car polish machine. Which is better rotary or Da. Rotary is cheaper and da is costly in India
I want to cut oxidation and polish a humongous 5th wheel RV that has chalky gelcoat. I've been told a rotary with a wool pad, and Meguire's One Step #57 will get the job done quickly and easily. I have watched rotary tutorials for proper technique. I need power, speed, and a good result. Is DA still better to do this with?
With this scenario, particularly since you're not going for a high level of finish, it may be more effective, however you will most definitely have holograms when you're done.
What pads should I use with the dual action polisher? I’m new at this and want to purchase my equipment
This is a great starter kit right here: www.esotericcarcare.com/rupes-lhr15-mark-iii-one-step-polishing-kit/
is this method recommended for a show car paint , color sanding 800-5000 grit? or just a paint correction type job? thanks
Either / or.
Trust me a rotary will get the job done a whole lot faster when it comes down to buffing! U can still polish with the rotary after buffing and then at last (optional for swirls/smooth finish) Finish ur last pass with DA.
Once again...we can agree to disagree on this one. And if you feel that there's any need to follow up a rotary with a DA, then the rotary process is being "rushed" too much. Refined finishes take time...
@@Esotericdetail there a videos about which best rotary da or fa same condition same rpm same degre rotary is the safest and buff better then all of them* they debunked myth DA was the most dangerous which destroying buff and touching paint before all of them so*