Vigano "Honored" To Be SCHISMATIC?! w/ Fr. Louis Merosne
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- Опубликовано: 5 сен 2024
- Fr. Lewis and Matt Fradd discuss the recent developments surrounding Archbishop Vigano's canonical trial.
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Full interview drops soon!
I've never heard of this guest, but I'm looking forward to the full video, judging by this clip!
YESSSSS
Super, but how soon exactly?
I know this will come across as crazy and totally conspiratorial but…I don’t believe Vigano is alive today. If he were…he wouldn’t have said these things in the first place. In the second place, he would’ve stood before his accusers and defended himself and his position. Not that I am anything special but…I see through this ruse against our Holy Church just as I’ve seen so many others in the past few years.
Thank you for addressing this topic! I left the Catholic faith for 7 years before my reversion and know now that without the magisterium… it’s just everyone’s personal interpretation of how the church should be. It’s difficult for me to see all this happening within the Catholic church, but I love the prayers offered for schismatics because I was once one too. Hope is a beautiful thing!
Hey, just to offer a counter point - every church that you join requires you to personally interpret how the church should be. You have personally decided that the church should be a monolithic hierarchical structure with one supreme head, and thus joined such a church. Likewise, pushing the responsibility for deciding individual doctrines onto a teaching magisterium is something you've personally decided to do. I could just as easily decide that the teachings of the Orthodox or the Lutherans are 'how the church should be' and then submit to those teachings. Either way, you are you the one deciding. Don't abdicate responsibility for your beliefs.
@@TheBlinkyImp I agree. It was 7 years of wrestling with the early church fathers, scripture and prayer that all pointed me back to Catholicism. How did Jesus envision/establish authority? That’s the question all his followers have to ask him.
I pray for your journey😊
Hope is a virtue!
I know things are rough right now, but we need to have faith in God. Leaving the Church will not fix any of this.
Why things are tough now if it’s not because of Pope Francis.?
@@tanvan5779 Schismatics. That seed of doubt. To give up on the Church that Christ founded. But we must not.
@@tanvan5779because it’s the will of God
The church be damn Christ, be glorified Christ, be glorified
No one is talking about leaving the Church. Cardinal Viganò isn’t leaving the Church, Bishop Strickland isn’t leaving the Church, Cardinal Burke isn’t leaving the Church, Cardinal Sarah isn’t leaving the Church. None of the leaders who are being fired or exiled are leaving the Church. They are just speaking the truth about the corruption in Rome.
It has been said that Obedience is the most difficult virtue. Be obedient to the church.
Only when we Love without Guile, Obedience comes freely and from that a Sacrifice is brought forth pure and Holy.
Amen
The only time that the Lord commands absolute obedience is when it is towards Him and His ways. None of us are obligated to follow sinful commands or to assent to blind faith with any leader who we know full well, or have serious reason to believe, is not adhering to the Lord and His ways with the authority he's been entrusted with.
That is shown to us by Saint Paul when he confronted Saint Peter, the first Pope, about his hypocritical actions towards the gentiles who weren't circumcized and by Saint Peter and John who defied the Sanhedrin's command to stop speaking about Jesus.
Leaders, including the Pope do not have absolute authority in all things, and they never did in the beginning either. We need to remember that and get back to it so the sins of clericalism and magisteriumism/ultramontanism are put in the cross with the Lord where they belong.
Christ is our King and Savior, no one else!
@@delvingeorge2807no obedience to evil men
Easier for Fr James Martin and the corrupt more than the orthodox bishops I guess
The same way that I will not give up on America because I do not happen to agree with who is president; I will not give up on my religion because I do not agree with the Pope! It doesn't solve the issue and only creates division. Believe there can be change and pray 🙏
An awful pope is still a pope, but this reminds us that we are Christians, not Bergoglians. No evil lasts forever.
One fine day the Catholic Church shall have a Benedict XVII or a John Paul III.
The Church is not America or like any other country. If you disagree with the magisterium of the Church, the problem is that you are not allowing the Church to guide you, instead you believe that some future Pope is going to come along and make the Church into what you think it should be and not a Church that is being led by the Holy Spirit into all Truth. I have to let go of what I believe is right or wrong and look to the Church and trust in God's love and grace and promise that the Church that He established on earth, will guide me to The Father's House. If I ever find myself disagreeing with the Church, I have to reject myself, seek the truth of what is being taught, and do my best to submit and follow.
I don't hold any of these beliefs when it comes to my country. It isn't, nor ever will be able to lead anyone to Heaven, and is not protected by God's promises in any way shape or form. Our laws are shaped by the will of the people and those who are elected by them. In no way, shape, or form is the Church anything like this. We should reject any way of treating our Holy Mother Church like our own governments. It just isn't comparable.
What do you mean agree with the Pope? That is ambiguous at this point. You disagree with 0% of what he says? I don’t think you are Catholic then. I would word my analogy better if I were you. I would say something like ‘I can still be Catholic but do not have to agree with everything the pope says when he is speaking from his private opinion.’
@@coolservantjesusswag2936 you’re basically saying the same thing, both of you. No Catholic in their right mind would agree with 100% of what this pope says to journalists. He’s not a Saint John Paul II, unfortunately. But he is the pope and wields an enormous power… that he doesn’t use for the common good, halas.
Agree with you. 🙏🙏🙏
What troubled me the most, with some of these loud papal dissenting internet personalities, is that when I was listening to them, years ago, I came to the realization that they didn't seem to trust Christ's promises and protections pertaining to the Church.
Amen! Same here!
Yes, same here
Their pride on full display. Scary.
Is there such a thing as an anti-pope? I mean ignoring homosexual molestation, sex trafficking, and yet laying the hammer down on TLM parishioners and TLM Bishops seems a bit off doesn’t it?
Besides Pope Benedict was still alive, so even the circumstances by which Francis ascended to St. Peter’s chair seem so peculiar on top of the seemingly overt opposition to the celebrating of Mass in the Language that first acknowledged Jesus of Nazareth as King of the Jews in written proclamation above the cross.
Lutheran here. I attend Catholic mass, and I have for at least 6 months. I plan on converting. I watched Taylor Marshal for awhile. He said things (to the affect of) “everything is messed up, but we must all stay Catholic!” But he also says, “wow, VIGANO is great!” And I’m like??? You want me to be Catholic but you are praising schismatics? Isn’t the whole point that the pope is the pope, and it doesn’t matter if you like him or not? Submit to the chair or Peter or don’t.
It's an antipope. Benedict was forced out of office which invalidated his resignation. Next, he resigned improperly by only surrendering the ministry while stoutly maintaining he retained the office itself. Finally, Vigano reported that cardinals present at the conclave that elected Bergoglio have privately confided that there were illegal happenings going on that invalidated the election process. This is simply a case of German elites installing an antipope like they did back in the Middle Ages. We know that the Vatican was cut off from the SWIFT system and unable to access their bank accounts but restored the day Benedict XVI announced his resignation. We know that Bergoglio has made alliances with the communist party of China, Pfeizer, meeting with their top executives and announcing it's "an act of love" to get injected, Lynn de Rothschild and her "inclusive capitalism" initiative and blessed the W.E.F as well. It is extemely unlikely that Benedict would ever have done these things. We know from Vatileaks that Angela Merkel excoriated Benedict for approaching the SSPX. We have the FBI cracking down on Latin Mass attendees. We see Francis promoting Theosophic goals of a merging of all religions including non Christian ones with his Abraham accords and Pachamama worship. What more evidence does one need to see that Bergoglio is not the Vicar of Christ but the servant of the kings of this world.
I keep my eyes on the Lord and his Church. Despite the stormy seas and high winds, i know the Church is like the ark that’ll carry me to safe harbor. Taylor Marshall is wrong for supporting Vigano who believes Pope Francis is not the the pope and Vatican 2 wasn’t a valid ecumenical council. When a Catholic believes that, he automatically makes himself a schismatic.
Submit to Jesus instead! A pope teaching heresy, e.g. that trans women are women, isn’t a real pope any longer.
The “Catholic Saruman”, may have been given to us as the best cure against the temptation of papolatry - when the holy father fails and contradicts the magisterium, we must bear in mind that Our God in heaven is the sole origin of Our Catholic Faith.
Taylor Marshall is more than a tad bit full of himself. If you are considering conversion, I would recommend Bishop Barron and Brant Pitre as people to read.
@@LorenzoLozziGallo-rg8bf you are bearing false witness against the pope! Pope Francis has warned against the evil of transgender ideology!
Vigano reminds me of LeFebvre. He has my sympathies and I understand the human side of how this tragedy developed. Both men were more right than they were wrong, but the situation developed such that positions became more extreme. The Hierarchy had to act … but, that same authority cheapened itself by selectively prosecuting “conservative” voices whilst simultaneously turning a blind eye to the flagrant abuses of “leftest” bishops and cardinals.
^This. The Vatican should apply the same standards to left wing people in the Church, but clearly are not. It has become biased and prejudiced, which is sinful in and of itself.
Well said!
@@patrickdean4853 I for one don’t understand defending McCarrick’s behavior nor do I understand the relationship with the CCP nor unveiling of the underground church in China exposing these people to atrocities
Vigano compares himself to Lefebvre but the SSPX contests that.
@@littlerock5256 SSPX would do well to separate themselves, as they have done, from Vigano … he has gone off the rails.
As Father says, ” nothing can justify schism from Christ holy church“ It should not be celebrated. Amen
St. Athanasius was excommunicated, but it turns out he was right!
Saint Mary Mackillop was also excommunicated.
See also the excommunication of Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, who died excommunicated.
Abp Vigano is being excommunicated for declaring the Papacy of Pope Francis invalid and rejecting Vatican II.
Do you think he is right about those things?
@@timmoore9736 Abp Marcel Lefebvre is still excommunicated to this day, by the way.
St. Joan of Arc as well
Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. If excommunication is being discussed - what about Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi?
I wish the Vatican would excommunicate Biden and Pelosi, but why stop there? Why not Cong. X who took bribes to enrich himself or Mr. Y who is an adulterer or Ms. Y who had several abortions? Pretty soon everyone will be excommunicated. Fact of the matter is, excommunication is grave matter and must be used prudently. We must trust the Magisterium to decide on these matters.
Last I checked, neither were ordained, nor raised to the level of bishop. It is rare for anyone to be excommunicated; it is even rarer for individuals to be excommunicated. I understand your perspective but ultimately what the Pope (and the dicastery involved with this) has done is tend to those who have a far larger impact on the Church - its priests, bishops and Cardinals, all of whom have a far greater impact on the Church, as its leaders, than do laity.
@@timmoore9736should the pope be excommunicated if he doesn’t want to be the Vicar of Christ? If he makes schism by pushing forward James Martin, pedo and homo bishops?
@@timmoore9736weak excuse. Two of the most prominent “Catholics” who continually abuse the faith and have had a PUBLIC audience with the Pope.
Pelosi has been barred from receiving communication by her archbishop. It's not quite excommunication, but still a significant thing
The trial will clear things up. Let the process happen and trust that God’s will will happen.
He no showed to his trial. What are we to make of that but an admission of guilt.
@@SevereFamine why he made that decision is none of our business. Innocent until proven guilty.
It doesn't help to send essentially a guilty plea to the court and brag about his conviction as a "badge of honor"
Yeah, because we can trust the leaders in Rome.🙄
Matthew 7:1-3 .
Father Louis! What a delight to see you here.💙We miss you at St Augustine Parish already.
But about the video: Martin Luther was honored to be a schismatic, too… 👀
Which lead to war across europe and a flourishing of heresies. Martin Luther should be deeply ashamed of his actions.
Matin Luther is hardly one to be held up as a model; he was a very torubled individual (and while right about some things he challenged, he, too, chose to not be corrected.)
@@timmoore9736 That was my point.
@@timmoore9736Martin Luther spread heresy through disobedience. Vigano spreads heresy through disobedience. They are the same spirit of the devil.
What does one do when the Magisterium looks partisan and only disciplines one side?
That is indeed unfair. I wish all the pro gay marriage priests were ex-communicated as much as anyone.
But what Vigano is doing is still wrong and his punishment is just. Let´s hope and pray the other side soon faces punishment too, mostly for the sake of their own souls.
@@HimekoIzayoischism doesn’t come from nowhere. Failure to punish those pro gay priests is a rot. Failing to deal with it, as well as failure to deal with the abuser priests, is leading to schism. The fact that we have talking heads and priests crying about anything else is asinine.
It’s hard enough to try and be a follower of Christ in spirit, but to have to sit there and have accusations thrown at the lay people as defenders of sin and abuse is another level.
I’m tired of hearing about attacks on the tlm, or attacks on the pope. I want the rot removed from Christ’s church.
@@m.m.6044 You're not alone on how you feel. Fatigue and dissapointment on the current state of the Church is understandable. But 2 wrongs don't make a right.
💯 agree. I think it’s best that we the layman read up and be familiar with all parts of the Magisterium as much as possible, know the catechism as much as we can so that when we have another papal authority tell us it’s okay to inject a poison we don’t agree with having we’ll know that’s him being fallible and not infallible just because he’s on the thrown of St. Peter.
@@HimekoIzayoi
Mine isn't fatigue or disappointment. It is anger. Like I am being talked to like an ignorant child who can't discern that which happens before my very eyes.
Partiality is even denounced in James 2. And to what end? For what cause? To help who?
A partisan court calls into question if a wrong was indeed done. It looks more like a move to get rid of an inconvenient person. It also calls into question all their previous judgements.
How can I trust a wrong has been done? how can I be trust that the punishment was the right one? If it's a political move, does it also not bring into question 1054 with the Orthodox? 1517 with the Protestants? 1962 with the Sedecavantists?
Is a partisan Magisterium truly faithful to Christ? Does it not call into question it's status?
They should know this, and it's not the first time such a thing has happened.
Jesus is never, and has never been unjust and I am supposed to accept his magisterium can?
How many more Schisms have to happen before the house is set in order?
The comments have no patience for the mere suggestion that a movie with objectionable content could be viewed, but have endless patience and excuses for open declarations of schism and disobedience.
Sounds like you want to watch something you know isn't good for you.
one problem: Francis is not the pope, never was. Benedict did not resign. Francis is the only one causing the scandal.
What if someone is truly teaching heresy?
Exactly. Or was it schismatic to resist the Borgia Popes or other bad popes we have had in the past? Isn't it possible to be obedient to the Church but disagree with the Pope? We know the Pope is not infallible all the time, but it seems like many Catholics act like he is.
@@joelpenley9791 It isn't that he just disagrees with the Pope. Disagreeing with the Pope on some things is ok. The bigger issue is he doesn't actually believe Francis is the true Pope. He rejects him and his authority.
It is impossible for a Pope to teach heresy. Read an article by Emmett O'Regan titled "The Indefectibility of the Church".
@@josephmoore5949 He might need too. There are popes who are anti-popes.
Someone teaching heresy is sinful. If the pope were to teach heresy, the Catholic Church would be falsified.
You misinterpret what Vigano stands for. Why did the Church of the Contenant of Africa reject the blessing of Homosexual couples. Why does Pope Francis criticize the conservatives in America. Pachama. Vigano believes Francis is a schismatic. These are questions many Catholic lay people have as well. The Dubia that was given to Pope Francis 10 years ago was ignored by Pope Francis to this day. Unfortunately, this is the tone Pope Francis has created. I think this should be discussed and clarified. But it's not. So the Pope seems to be very deceptive. The document for Gay blessings says couples, but when the Pope is interviewed, he says NO, only individuals. That is very corrupt. It's very hard to honor Pope Francis when he is not honest. Sorry, I don't want to become neurotic. So many catholics are in denial because he's the Pope. I'm glad Jesus is the head of the Church, and the Pope is only, as he says, the Bishop of Rome. Lol. Thank God for the deposit of the faith. Thank God Jesus lives.
You have produced a trad word salad.
@SevereFamine No, I'm Catholic. I have these questions as well. I'm surprised you don't. I see Ralph Martin, a charismatic, with the same questions. He has stated he sees where this is going. It's NOT good. He is also Catholic. Not a 'trad'. What about the African bishops rejecting Pope Francis's homosexual blessings? Are they out of communion with the Pope, and we should pray for them because they must be wounded to reject the Pope. What does the Pope do? Instead of questioning himself and his document, he brushes Africa off, saying this is a cultural issue. Really? Not a moral issue?
Your words sound more like pegan commies, just knowing to tagging and slander but without proper sufficient arguments. Dont tell me you learned from this commie pope...
@Severefamine you didn't address any point in the comment. How convenient.
@john you are confused. The African bishops **implemented** FS by not allowing blessing of gay couples in their dioceses. In fact, the Vatican affirmed their implementations. Read FS in its entirety.
Okay, I just tuned into this clip, I'm going to watch the full interview. This priests forthright way of speaking has caught my attention!
Yeah, I can humbly admit I am guilty of that. I hope our Lord can forgive me and increase my faith in His Church.
FATHER LOUIS!!! He was our visiting priest for the past several months at St Augustine. Love him!
In Miami ?? I thought his name looked familiar!
@@businessacc179 yep!
“Man you can’t trash talk your father like that”
This is something I didn’t even think about. Honor your mother and father. The Holy Father 100 percent deserves that respect.
The problem is that Vigano sounds Catholic, the pope sounds like the head of an NGO.
Catholics don't slander the Pope, and lead souls to schism.
Actually he doesn’t sound Catholic, if one understands Catholic.
He sounds Protestant.
What?
@@juantoomany7202 he will be vindicated or not, history will tell
This is the best. This is what Catholics should do, pray for each other and pray for the unity of the Church.
The trouble I have with this is that others in the church are absolutely "dissenting" with their actions and teaching and there is NO rebuke or comment by the magisterium. It seems very very heavy handed in one direction only.
That is largely because you see little of what the Church does, except that which gets into the news.
Well first of all the Church is trying to solve all the issues and for example tries to bring the German bishops back in line. There is a difference between someone dissenting on teaching etc. and literally basically excomunicating yourself from the Church by claiming the pope/Magisterium is false and thus there's basically nothing to be in communion with.
@@karolkos5915 But I think that is exactly the point. The church IS "cancelling" pro life priests, Latin Rite priests. The Church ISN'T doing all that much to correct what is happening in Germany or the Amazon. The Church isn't correcting a certain Father Martin, isn't apologizing for a pagan ceremony in the Vatican. We are also walking very far away from the purpose and intent of Synod's which was never to make this an open discussion with the laity and a "So what do you think?" panel discussion. The Latin Mass is under attack. But rock band masses, dancing on the alter, and worse get NO response from Rome. Do you see the point? Actual behaviours which are absolutely against Church teaching or break down any sense of reverence get a pass, while traditional orthodox practices get slapped down. They are "bringing in line" traditional beliefs and practices and NOT the beliefs and behaviors absolutely outside Church teaching. The Bishop is responding to what the Church is doing that allows a breakdown of belief and trying to urge correction... for this he is being excommunicated. He isn't breaking from traditional church teaching, he is lamenting behaviours.
It's does seem troublingly so. Tho, it's hard to know all the reasons why some, ie. German, bishops aren't more strongly addressed, too. But a Pope's faults aren't greater than God's Grace & preservation of His Bride, The Church just as His Grace & Power are greater than our sins.
@@mark-be9mq all the faithful need to pray for the Pope, for his openness to the movement of the Holy Spirit, for wisdom, for courage, for fidelity to the Truth. But just as Paul had to correct Peter, we also can't be afraid to point out actions, not the seat of Peter itself, but actions that are quite definitely outside of the teaching of the church. And we should be willing to defend the true and holy defenders of that truth. All the while remaining in communion with the Church and trusting that God's hand is always guiding the Church.
How could that ever be good? Did you read what Vigano said? He explains why he says it is a badge of honor. He is claiming they are the ones departing from the faith by their words and actions. They are saying he is schismatic for not agreeing with them. Logically, if Vigano is correct in his assessment, then yes it is a badge of honor for them to say Vigano disagrees with them.
I agree with your explanation. The problem is in Rome's eyes no one on earth is permitted to disagree with them. Being right does not really factor into it, if they say you are wrong you are wrong with no recourse, proving you are right just validates to Rome that not only are you wrong but obstinately wrong until you admit you are wrong and ask forgiveness.
Could you name the official grounds on which he stands trial?
@@363catman That is poppycock. There is a means of resolving internal disputes, and that is internaly. The good bishop has not just gone off on what he considers major issues; he has chosen to not do it internaly, but externally, involving the faithful along the way. He is in a very very small minority, as is usual with papal critiques. He is also in a fairly small group of others who have been excommunicated (Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre died excommunicated). One either believes the Church is protected by the Holy Spirit, or not. Both would appear to have this issue. And what has happened did not come to him out of left field; When something as serious as this starts on the path, the Church works to internally address it; if the offending party refuses to change, matters continue to proceed.
@timmoore9736 Yeah, you hit on a key point. Who gets to define who the offending party is? I think the days of "handling things internally" being accepted have come to a close. The multiple sex abuse incidents and subsequent cover up associated with that brought this about. When leadership can't be trusted, the last thing you do is trust leadership without first making significant institutional changes regarding transparency and accountability of leadership's decision making process.
Vigano is wrong. He is prideful, ideological and rash. If you support him, then you are schismatic as well and you are damning yourself for leaving the Church of Christ
Vigano now enjoys a status similar to the orthodox so I expect him to be invited to ecumenical meetings
Yes, the Church has a duty to mercifully accompany him on his journey, while acknowledging his infinite dignity.
Hahahaha
@user-t v6vv5rb8v right?!
The Orthodox are not excommunicated.
@@morant3057Aren't the Orthodox publicly denying the pope and the ecumenical councils?
I honestly don't know much about the situation, but could there be a difference between saying "I'm honored to be 'called' schismatic" and "I'm honored to be schismatic"?
When you're being called a schismatic by Christ's Church itself, there really is no difference.
@@maximilianclarke9118 St Athanasios pray for us.
@@maximilianclarke9118 It is not Christ's church who is calling him schismatic, it is the men who are supposed to be her shepherds. But remember, in the past people have been excommunicated only to later be vindicated and have those excommunications lifted. So it is not like this charge of schism is infallible.
You hit the nail on the head.
@@joelpenley9791 If the dicastery in charge of such rulings finds him to be schismatic, it is under the authority of the Church. And the Pope will have the final say. Contrary to your position, if the trial goes forward with or without his presence and he is found to be in shcism, it will be Christ's Church which makes the decision.
Well said Father.
So well said. Thank you for reminding us to stick to the church and not people.
I respect the desire to be faithful, but I can’t take seriously the opinions of people who accept the charismatic movement. The ape of the Church is real. Don’t be gullible, Vigano may be too abrasive, but the apostasy in Rome is obvious
Oh darn! Aand I thought that Christ promised that the Holy Spirit would be with the Church to the end of time!
@@timmoore9736 The real Church, yes. Not the inverted ape of the Church
More than a desire, necessary. I've strong 'disappointments' w/Pope Francis, but he is the Pope. God conquered death by obedience & Grace, He can He can protect the Deposit of Faith from poor Popes. We trust Him, not Francis per say. The Church survived Benedict IX but later gave us St.Pius X. Vigiano's abrasivness isn't a problem. Denying legitimacy of a Pope & it's Councils is.
"...some people cling to podcasters as the new magisterium." Uh, a little presumptuous, no? Is this based off RUclips comments? Does he know that who he's talking about are even Catholic? Does voicing an opinion ultimately mean we value a podcast more than the Church? Something seems off about how these two speak in such generalities while still casting aspersions on Vigano.
Thank you. Let's voice our complaints respectfully and docilely, if we must. But first, let's complain to Jesus Himself and ask Him if we should voice our complaint or keep silent and pray. 🙏🙏🏼❤ Sometimes it's right to speak up, other times it's best to be quiet, like Martha's sister Mary, at the Feet of Jesus.
I was JUST thinking about how I wanted to re-watch Fr. Louis’ first interview, perfect timing!
Our leaders divide the flock but it’s the flocks fault, incredible logic.
Thank God we have Church history to know even Saints were declared schismatics.
In times of crisis things are not black or white.
Kyrie Eleison.
Hello friend in Christ,
It is true that saints were declared schismatics, but this is because there was real question about the legitimacy of this or that papacy --meaning, there were actually *other claimants* to the chair of St. Peter, and their claims were not entirely unfounded. Can we say the same today? Are Pope Francis' actions simply detestable, or are there real grounds for saying that he was not universally accepted as the successor of St. Peter? There have been countless detestable Popes throughout Church History, but nevertheless, we are called to obedience in their legitimate exercise of Christ's Authority.
May God bless you my friend :)
@@marvelator8303 people today have legitimate concerns too friend.
@@tasha5916 of legitimate concerns, I have no doubt :)
My worry is only with those who would deny the Holy Father his authority, which was established by the Lord Himself. I will not deny (indeed, I cannot deny) that Pope Francis has glaring flaws in his leadership of the Church, but I do know I would fare no better. I'm not a man of heroic virtue, or of keen insight into the endless detail of how the Church is kept afloat on these troubled waters. I trust in the Lord, Jesus Christ, and His Truth; spoken once and for all, and entrusted to Peter and the Apostles. Pope Francis is far from a perfect Pope, but I see no real reason to question *that he is* the Pope.
"When Christ at a symbolic moment was establishing His great society, He chose for its cornerstone neither the brilliant Paul nor the mystic John, but a shuffler, a snob, a coward - in a word, a man. And upon this rock He has built His Church, and the gates of Hell have not prevailed against it. All the empires and the kingdoms have failed, because of this inherent and continual weakness, that they were founded by strong men and upon strong men. But this one thing, the historic Christian Church, was founded on a weak man, and for that reason it is indestructible. For no chain is stronger than its weakest link." ~G.K. Chesterton
Much love, my friend in Christ :)
@@marvelator8303 There is no official church teaching about the "Universal Acceptance" theory. That is just an opinion of some theologians. One of the preconditions for this theory to come into play is the fact that the See must be empty which it wasn't. Pope Benedict stated he only resigned the ministry, not the office and since he erroneously believed the papacy can be split in two, his resignation was invalid. His resignation was challenged long before his death which means there was no universal peaceful acceptance once the See became truly empty. Further, Vigano has stated that cardinals involved in the conclave have privately confided that there were illegalities in the voting process which further casts doubt on the legitimacy of Bergoglio. An impartial investigation into the conclave is in order which must be made by all the bishops including Vigano before the church can move forward.
We must pray fervently every day for the sitting pope, the future pope, for the Holy Catholic Church - and for ourselves.
Thank you! This is excellent.
Preach! Love it
FINALLY!!!!!! A podcast that is speaking with truth and reason!!! 🙌🙌🙌🙌
Why is it okay to Call Vigano schismatic, but not call others in the hierarchy who are clearly acting schismatic the same?
The Church's definition of schism is, "the refusal of submission to the Supreme Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him".
Vigano has publicly stated that he doesn't believe PF is the pope, therefore he's in schism.
Anyone else doing the same, is in a state of schism too, even if they haven't formally been excommunicated yet.
First time I hear that you can't call ppl schismatic? Anyone in particular you're thinking about?
V publicly stated that PF isn't pope. Therefore he's in schism, according to Can. 751.
Anyone else who has stated the same, is also in a state of schism, even if they haven't been formally declared as such by Rome.
@vinnieleone I understand what was schism is. The point I was trying to bring to attention is many of the hierarchy are in schism as well, but aren't publicly called out or Canonically charged.
@@stldrew6810 Could you name those other members of the hierarchy who have publicly stated they are not in communion with Pope Francis?
Sad… “we don’t talk bad about our father…” I do when my father is being abusive. When I see things I can’t logically work out in my thoughts like letting predators keep their collars while others around the world who stand up and point out the current evils in our mists only to be ruthlessly taken out by their Bishops on orders from higher authority. This has been going on for decades and instead of tracing this back and rooting out the problem that still exists we are told to stay silent and support an imperfect man in all things. I don’t deny Pope Francis but he’s made me very skeptical of him through his own words and actions.
The Pope didn’t “let predators keep their collars”. In this Vigano case, it was actually Vigano himself who, as the apostolic nuncio, allegedly, didn’t follow up on accusations of Cardinal McCarrick for years, so the Vatican didn’t know what was going on. Then Vigano starts blaming Francis for not doing anything…. As an old saying goes: the smeller’s the feller…
He was trumpeting out someone else of the very thing that he himself was guilty of; not dissimilar to democrats blaming republicans of the very things they were guilty of. WHY? Slight of hand; to conceal one’s own actions by throwing attention elsewhere…
As far as clergy being “taken out by Bishops” (I assume you’re referring to people like Fr Pavone, Bishop Strickland, etc.), do deeper dives into the events that occurred brought on by their own actions.
Were they practicing obedience to Holy Mother Church? From all I’ve seen, NO, they were not. Whether they were right or wrong in their beliefs, they were disobedient to Holy Mother Church.
Sound harsh? Look at Padre Pio’s example of obedience in the face of persecution and doubt by his authorities. THAT is obedience.
It’s been said that obedience is the most difficult virtue to live. We have many examples lately, and the devil is laughing at them…
Pax!
If there was no Vigano then we wouldn't be talking about this.
Vigano covered McCarrick, denied Vatican 2, created his own seminary apart from the Church, and got reconsecrated by a sedevacantist.
Vigano is worse than Lefebvre, especially because he accused Pope Francis of covering McCarrick whom he covered himself.
@@matthewfleck747
lol that was a lot of cope.
Please tell me why Rupnik is still a priest and why Francis is writing forewords to books written by Martin?
@@pcola4594 Why did Francis elevate Tucho Hernández?
@@artstocker60a bad papacy may finally cure clericalism and papolatry. Our allegiance lies with Jesus and the saints in heaven - not with a living man preaching a different gospel.
I fully believe that the world would be a better place if we boycotted all podcasts. And I fully understand the irony of writing this below this video
Love this Priest. Yes, we do need to pray for eachother twice as much as we feel it's ok to criticise.
Pray for Vigano & all caught in that storm.
Taylor Marshall should be ashamed of himself! Sister Anne (33 year Carmelite) called him out 3 years ago publicly on her channel. He first of all is a convert who should have more humility and secondly this man has NO AUTHORITY AND I CALLED HIM OUT ON IT! I unsubscribed from that schismatics channel. I also went to confession for this. Marshall is preying on people who are poorly catechized.
So true, i am a convert from Protestantism and during my conversion process i was trying to learn more about the church and the problems to know what I was getting into… watched his channel and it almost made we want to quit RCIA before i prayed about it and asked myself why i had such little faith in Christs promise which I had come to believe. So many people have left the church or promote sedevacantism because of him and others like Timothy Gordon who have made outright lies to slander the Pope and claim the Church has practically fallen already. Quit watching them once I realized they do nothing but dissent against the Church and promote schism. But it is scary so many others out there could be wanting to join the Church but get scared off because of him or leave the Church, they are radical in the name of traditionalism yet ironically become anti-traditionalists by failing to do the most Catholic thing of trusting in Christ’s promise and submitting to the Pope
Sometimes it is hard to submit to a Pope who promotes pro-abortion politicians who also support all kinds of other evil practices. Not to mention, he never gives these people criticism, just criticism to the most faithful Catholics who like to follow the rules. Hard to support a Pope that constantly undermines the faith. Yet, our devotion is to just keep our mouths shut and have no opinions in these matters. To offer no criticism of the Pope despite what is happening right in front of us.
The same applies to Michael Lofton, no humility and openly agressive form of NPD. Sad to watch both of them 😢
@@josephmoore5949 praising someone's good work in one area is not a blanket endorsement.
Converts are not second class Catholics or called to exercise more humility because they were not born into the faith. You're emotional and afraid. Ask yourself why.
Not a fan of an ad read before the prayer ends. Could have had an Amen first
yeah that was a bad edit I think.
So, did our Lady lie when she warned of serious problems to come with in the church...
Did our Lady call for slander, disobedience and schism in response to issues to come in the Church?
EXCUSE ME! Who are you implying is guilty of the sin of lying?
Do you realise that an Ark can have sailing difficulties and still remain afloat with thr Captain still in charge?
Which prophecy are you referring to? I am unfamiliar and do not want to assume.
@@supernerd8067read the messages from Our Lady of LaSalete and our Lady of Fraudais to servant of God Marie-Julie Jehenny. Mary says Rome would become corrupted and fall, the Church would go underground,
while the false church “religious deception “ appears to be in control, until n angelic pope comes and restores and renews the Church. Read Xavier Reyes-Ayres book Revelation to see how Mary has said these things and more would happen in the Church.
Our Lady is on the side of the Pope 😇👍🏻 Obedience is very important! ✝️🇻🇦
So wonderful ! I have to watch the rest of this interview
Read the actual paragraphs pictured around the highlighted quotes; I do not see the problem? Why is the context removed?
Vigano says that he's honored to be called schismatic because he believes that the Magisterium is wrong. "Schism" to these sort of Catholics just means "disagreeing with any of the teachings of the Roman Catholic church", even if those teachings aren't official dogmas. Vigano is standing by his belief. Thank God for this man.
Well, he is standing proud in tradition by following Martin Luther. Luther also called for people to rejoice in being excommunicated.
These are interesting cases how the devil operate. On a low level, unconsciously, in so many people. Even bishops. As if they can't think straight anymore.... He is our pope. Critic yes, but if you can't stop, it is a clear indicator, that something is fundamentally wrong.
Ubi Petrus, ibi Ecclesia, ibi Deus!! 🇻🇦
Thank you! 🙏
One cannot be schismatic for criticizing or even rebuking V2 because as Paul vi said, it’s a non-dogmatic council which taught NOTHING NEW. Denying something non-dogmatic is not schism. Please pay attention to terms.
To reject a valid Council is.
You can't reject a valid Council.
@@anthonymckinney9904 -- V2 has nothing to accept or reject. In that it referenced scripture and prior DOGMATIC councils it was magisterial. When it contradicts Catholic teachings, one is free to question if not reject it such as “Muslims worship the same God”. (See Nostrae Aetate and lumen gentium 16,17.)
Also in lumen gentium it states that Christian truth SUBSISTS in Catholicism, not IS. THAT WORD CHANGE WAS INSERTED BY MODERNISTS
Few if any Catholics have either read or know anything about the documents. I bet you haven’t read it.
Oh by the way, 6 Protestant ministers and several condemned heretics contributed importantly to the council. Whadya think of that??
@@anthonymckinney9904 - read my post again. There’s NOTHING dogmatically defined in V2. There’s no anathemas. There’s no condemnation of communism. It was a null council.
👆 Those 6 Protestant Ministers were invited to Vatican 2 Council.
👆 151 Anathemas came from
Council of Trent.
Q: Are all anathemas Unchanged?
Unchangable? “Dogma”?
I love, love, love this priest! His level of discernment. Most people do not understand they are not The Pope and are clueless as to his role which he is carrying it out very well.
Amen.
What an horrible and idiot priest! I could you like him😂
Although this is church matter, it feels like egos clashing.
Curious this channel never highlights the other bishops and priests in schism or the cancellation of the TLM in Melbourne and how that’s a problem. I’m just curious if there’s space in this channel for traditional Catholics to be part of the conversation…. Doesn’t seem so, I wish there was more communication between some of y’all.
Trads need to obey Christ instead of hiding in their bubbles leaving the rest of us in the trenches.
A traditional Catholic is any Catholic in full communion with the Church. A traditional Catholic gives his submission of intellect and will to the ordinary Magisterium. Traditional Catholics do not publicly dissent. What the qualifier "traditional" means for those using the term confuses non-essential liturgical traditions with sacred Tradition. They are not the same.
Liturgical forms ARE NOT Sacred Traditions!
Reread as many times as needed to finally drop that misunderstanding.
@@in_defense_of_the_church However the Catholic church has multiple rites, Chaldean rite and so on… so why should the TLM rite be persecuted and put as a lower class.. the Church is universal… read that again and let that sink in.
@@kurtschneider4202 You know the context which I was meaning when under what I said. Don’t be obtuse my comment isn’t difficult to comprehend, nor uncharitable.
I seen father Lewis two years ago and again this year at the Steubenville youth conference, I absolutely love him! He is a great man of God.
Wow. Just unsubscribed. Good to know where people stand.
👋
Me too
What made you unsubscribe?
?
Hi Father Merosné!!!! So nice to see you!🇭🇹😇🙏🏽☘️
These are the opinions of a priest and podcaster, not theologians nor Bishops. There are instances when a Bishop should stand up to the Pope the same way Paul did to Peter. Pray that every bishop including the one in Rome is guided by the Holy Spirit and not the will of man.
"Stand up to" but never "break communion with". Let us pray.
What part of him not wanting to be in communion did you not understand?
Francis is not the pope though. Benedict was the pope. At best Francis could be said to have been the executor of the last real pope. The next pope will be a real pope if elected in a conclave.
@@solrubrum except Francis is the pope.
@@solrubrumhow is Francis not the Pope and how can you make that claim with any authority?
I understand the idea of obedience. However, this pope is problematic. To say "He is the Pope"-- big deal, so was the Medici, the Borgia. To deny that this man is vindictive is to deny reality.
The present pope appears to be wasting the grace he has been given. He punishes people for professing and teaching what Catholics have always believed.
Francis is not “holy”, he is the just a pope. Many popes in history have betrayed Christ church. Know your history. On a human level, trust is to be earned not an entitlement. Francis has earned my mistrust. Such a young romantic view here. Praying for Matt and Father.
One terrible day, those who chose Bergoglio over Jesus Christ shall be called to explain themselves.
Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners and for our brethren, that the prince of lies may not confuse our wretched souls!
There has not been one pope in the hsitory of the Church who has taught heresy. And Bishop Vigano hasn't named the first one to do so. Prior to Vaticn 2 we were taught that the Holy Spirit always protects the Church from heresy; the bishop seems to have forgotten that.
@@timmoore9736 the Holy Spirit protects the Church from heresy, not the individuals within the Church.
The devil is most active where he can create most damage, like in the Vatican or Matt Fradd’s blog.
You are confusing the person with the office. A title for he who sits in Peter's chair is Holy Father. To be holy is to be set apart. The man sitting in Peter's chair is holy by virtue of the position he holds.
@pamlure9616 and you are the one deciding who is holy or not, who is a good pope to trust or not?!Go back to your Taylor Marshall , we don't need pope slanderers here. Here we obey, respect and love the Church and Her Holy Father.
Maybe people are following Pope Francis' example, when he trash talks people. But he gets the constant defense that his words are taken out of context when he does it though. It's not right, labeling people a certain way when they express concern or confusion. That's done to people who acknowledge Pope Francis office. To write everyone off as having some sort of derangement syndrome over legitimate concern as to what's being allowed, seen (with your own eyes), and said doesn't help.
Who has he trash talked?
Michael Lofton has also expressed his concern and the only bashing he gets is from those that don’t like the Holy Father. It’s not all a one way street.
What are some examples of what Pope Francis has done that is worthy of your's and others' response/attitude?
@@in_defense_of_the_churchI try not to bash the pope, I’ve been guilty of that before, but I can assure you Michael Lofton is as bad as the people he criticizes.
@@jslizzle84 Not a single one of those things affects your relationship with God or the church, though. Why get upset and threaten throwing away you salvation? Its probably a sin to claim that you know better than the pope and the conference of bishops on any matter. You're very literally claiming you know better than the Magisterium...
Were you fond of the changes from VCII? Or the changes to the rites by Pope Benedict? If so, what do you say to others that weren't? If not, how did you react then?
And all you said may be true, but Vigano was not just "expressing charitable opinion". He was a schismatic, supporting a split from the church while holding a leadership position in it.
@@jslizzle84 "his appointments have been atrocious, his suppression of the TLM was a mistake...". There is no question in that statement. Sure sounds like you think you know better.
Do not pretend you know enough about me to cast me into a group that you think claims catholics cannot ask questions.
And you did not bring up VCII, I did. It is an analogous situation I felt relevant to the discussion.
I'll pray for you, but will not argue with you, for you seem too defensive and upset. I merely asked questions and tried to get you to look from a different perspective, courteously I thought. Have a good night.
We must separate the church's "magisterium" which is infallible from the people in the church who are fallible, including the Pope. Not everything the people in the church say is "the magisterium". This is a very dangerous statement. Fallible people acting in error or heresy may very well be sending themselves and other souls to Hell along with them. Vigano doesn't make his declaration lightly. He has legitimate concerns about sins that cry to heaven that the church appears to be lending tacit support for.
Exactly. Lets not forget that people have been excommunicated in the past, and then later these excommunications were lifted usually because they were unjust. So just because today Vigano is being accused of schism, doesn't mean he is schismatic. He is not denying what the Church officially teaches (and has taught for 2,000 years) but he is raising concerns over the modern statements which contradict the faith.
@@joelpenley9791 Here is my question to you. If you believe what he is doing isn't schism, and it is Francis and the Vatican that are the real traders, do you then also deny Francis as the true Pope? Or if you believe he is still the Pope, would it justify any Catholic to just leave the Church at this point?
@@josephmoore5949 person said nothing about Francis or anyone being a trader. Give people a chance, hear people out, instead of hearing what you want.
And the sins vigano is committing from schisms, slandering, lying, and covering up sexual abuse
@@josephmoore5949 King Saul was the chosen king of Israel (by God), until the point where he stopped obeying God.
Vigano is saying what needs to be said. Conserve the Church, man. It's pretty simple.
Never knew that denying the authority of the Pope and the church council is something catholics have to say. Well, maybe if you're a 16th century German priest.
Context?????? Brother! How about the “context” appeals for every single one of Francine’s pachima, homosexual passes, and pro-communist language????
Hes extremely frustrating & They're very serious problems& perhaps sins. But to whom else do we go? The Church survived Benedict IX but later produced Pius X & Leo XIII. We have an age of protest w/little obedience or patience to suffer. We pray for The Church & Francis. It may get worse, but through suffering, new life.
"If someone for a reasonable motive, holds the person of the Pope in suspicion and refuses his presence, even his jurisdiction, he does not commit the delect of schism nor any other whatsoever, ….provided he be ready accept the Pope were he not held in suspicion.” -Cardinal Thomas Cajetan, OP. Commentary on the Summa Theologiae of St. Thomas Aquinas: entry 186 on “schism”
Everything is NOT ok, but it is NOT the Holy Father’s fault. His Papacy is much like Paul VI’s … a very difficult time. I say Pope Francis is doing an awesome job navigating these rough waters
So why is James Martin not excommunicated? Martin is spreading confusion along with the Pope. And guess who the master of confusion is - the devil. So stop the excuses! Vigano has decided to be courageous and defend catholic doctrine and morals.
So if you have a father who abused you , you can't speak about it. The Holy Father has lead many astray!
Why are you people so dense...
Clericalism at its finest
"The work of the devil will infiltrate even into the Church in such a way that one will see cardinals opposing cardinals, bishops against bishops. The priests who venerate me will be scorned and opposed by their confreres...churches and altars sacked; the Church will be full of those who accept compromises and the demon will press many priests and consecrated souls to leave the service of the Lord. “Our Lady of Akita”
Exactly. Most of the trad haters don't even have the spine to grapple with Akita. They think that lukewarm Catholicism is acceptable. The main problem is that they don't even realize just how lukewarm their faith is because they spurn true tradition without knowing what it is.
You are missing a point. The shepherd leads the flock and protects it. I don’t see the pope doing that. With all the confusion, it is very simple for the pope to clarify the issues in today’s world with all of the social media but he doesn’t. I grew up in the church of acceptance. Do as I say and don’t question. If the church cannot withstand questions, it is not leading and protecting the flock.
You don't see the pope doing that because you disagree with something the pope said, not because he isn't leading the flock. Is it the shepherds fault because one sheep just refuses to follow his directions? A shepherd can call and beckon and attempt to lead away from a cliff but that doesn't necessarily stop a sheep from falling off. I suppose the pope and all local priests are responsible for all sins of their parishioners?
Vigano wasn't excommunicated because he asked questions. No one ever has been shot down or shunned for asking questions. Asking questions and getting intellectual responses is Catholic more than any Protestant sect I've been exposed to. He actively sought to split from the Church. He was actively usurping the authority of the Church and Holy Spirit chosen delegate of Peter's succession.
I'm sorry that you disagree with something the current pope said. I pray now and nearly daily that you and people in your boat (my father for instance) find acceptance and faith in the Church.
@@MrsAngelala I went to catholic schools for all of my education, and every single church representative both laypeople and ordinated encouraged questions. There are countless historical church figures that encourage questioning the world including faith. I'm sorry that your experience was the way it was, but I can say very confidently that your personal experience was not meant by the Church as a whole.
@@holdintheaces7468hummm- did I understand you to say “that no one has been shot down” by this Pope? If so, you are mistaken. Otherwise, I take your general point. Sadly, Francis and a vindictive authoritarian, a common observation from both the left and right flanks of the Church. He sows confusion and appoints men unfit to lead. He is a perpetual series of public scandals in motion- but, yes Sir, he is the Pope.
From an outside perspective, it seems Vatican 1 and 2 have reduced Christianity to do whatever the Pope says. If you don’t do what the Pope says you’re out. It’s weird to see the Catholics who most care about their faith most at odds with the Pope whereas super left wing Catholics like Biden have nothing to fear from him.
@@holdintheaces7468Yes, faith and reason are not opposed, and an unexamined faith is not generally what God asks of us. However, there are currently many actions taken by the hierarchy of the Church that cannot withstand questioning. They are aware of that, and so of course discourage questions. I'm grateful you have not experienced this, and hope you never do! Peace.
Pretty fitting this all happened in Pride month. Pride is the worst of the deadly sins, it is when one tries to make themselves God. Vigano is doing just that. Let us pray that those and other schismatics display the much needed virtues in our church humility and obedience. You do not know more than the magisterium or the pope. And you must obey they, because they are the church Jesus established on earth.
What should Archbishop Vigano have done, go to Rome?
yes submit to his father and suffer what he tells him
All we can do is pray for our Church, our holy father our bishops and priests. The Church is not a democracy. We must have faith in God. He alone is in charge.
What protocol is there in the Catholic Church when Jesus needs to say to Peter “Get behind me, Satan! You are an obstacle to me. You are thinking not as God does, but as men do.” -Matthew 16:23
We've had some bad popes in the past but we mostly just put up with them. It's only antipopes that mess with doctrine like this guy has done. When the German emperor set up a puppet antipope back in the year 1095 the real pope Urban II appealed to some French warriors to fight for Christ. On their way to the Holy Land they made a pitstop in Rome and overthrew the antipope.
I doubt we'll be able to overthrow this guy until we scatter the WEF and their minions.
None, like in your example only Jesus said that and only Jesus can.
@@bruno-bnvmand what if Jesus is saying that through Vigano or other priests who oppose the teachings of the flesh of James Martine type?
But the point is that Jesus had to. And anyone who stood behind peter or was with Peter on that one would have been against Jesus. So if Christ himself isn't there to say "Peter and all who stand with him are outside of the mind and will of God", then the flock just stands there next to Peter, opposed to Jesus.
I don't understand why people are still jumping down each other's throats on one side or another. Everyone knows "the pope's not infallible about this or that, or in this way or in that way, only in narrow circumstances" and every single person seems to think they know exactly where the lines should be drawn. Plenty of Saints lined up with Jesus and it appeared as though he (or she) stood against the church. Jesus righted the ship outside of our human timelines. The point is, lockstep with the magisterium isn't always lockstep with Jesus. And they have the authority of the seat of Peter, and the people with the authority of the seat of Moses condemned our Lord to death. Murdering saints (or God) is clearly still an option for a legitimate authority.
This whole "James Martin" thing is just a red herring. Pope Francis has repeatedly taught in line with catholic tradition that homosexual acts are and will always be sin. And that you can't bless sin. And that marriage is only between one man and one woman. There are no reasons for attacking him in this. It's just sowing confusion (so many ppl favourite word), and is pretty lame.
I have a couple questions for Fr. Meronse. Is it your interpretation that Abp. Vigano is schismatic because he dares to publicly speak in opposition to non-Ex-Cathedra writings issued under Pope Francis' name? Would you consider a Benedictine monk schismatic if they publicly criticized the Holy Father for turning a blind-eye to rampant sin within the Church?
I’m not catholic, but i really appreciate the Catholic Church , so please don’t take this as me being snarky or asking in jest, cause I genuinely dont understand. It seems like when it comes down to it, being in communion with the pope is seen as more important than reverent worship. That’s not to say that a modern catholic mass can’t be reverent if done respectfully, i know there are many reverent novus ordo. But if clown masses (and various other abuses, you know what I’m talking about) can remain in communion with Rome and be validly catholic, but then sspx is schismatic, and guilty of seemingly greater sin, then it seems like it hinges on communion with the Pope. and again I’m genuinely asking, not hating or anything, i love Catholicism,but i don’t understand as non catholic, why is it viewed as more important?
Is POTUS (Pope) supposed to get involved with abuses at a military base (local church) or is that the responsibility of the base commander (local Bishop)?
To further the analogy, if a military base has declared mutiny and has denied the legitimacy of the sitting POTUS, and Supreme Court (Magisterium) yet they are amazing soldiers in battle (spiritual), does that mean this military base is correct?
I’m catholic and although I can’t answer that I think it’s a great question.
Irreverant liturgies are bad, but the main thing that makes you a Catholic and not protestant is literally communion with Rome. It's how the priests receive thier authority to perform the sacraments, especially and most importantly consecrating the Holy Eucharist. It's not that SSPX are being punished cause they're too pious, it's that they are being punished for trying to lead people from the Church. How can they be true Catholics if they reject the structure that IS Catholicism. We aren't just a bunch of people who go to a similar service on Sundays and say similar prayers but are all disconnected. My parish in Denver is witness to the same sacrifice and supper as a parish in Poland or Vietnam. It is this nature that makes the Church "Catholic" which means Universal. The Church cannot be universal if its split into a thousand pieces that are all acting autonomously.
It hinges on obedience. It’s a super tough pill to swallow. From reading about lives of the saints-it appears to be more pleasing to God to endure persecution at the hands of the Church than to leave and “do it the right way”.
God can only fix it from the inside out. You can’t save your marriage by getting a divorce. Eventually, God rights the ship.
If they get rid of the TLM we are done, I m just gonna say it
It would be a difficult thing, but we wouldn’t be done. Christ was in His Church for 1500 years before the TLM. He will continue to be in His Church until the end of age just like He promised. Our Faith is not in a form of Mass but in the Christ who gave us the Mass.
@@pawollatounenmoun to which extent are its church members going to deny truth and tradition? I think that’s the most important question. Where is the line drawn? I m not on one side of the fence or another because they’re is virtue signaling and posturing on both sides. I think that is the question. You’re right we’re not done, we will just be in big trouble. Other question is why are there Catholics that are hell bent on removing it? Let’s reverse engineer these intentions. It is irrefutable that the handlings of the pedophilia outrageous I am sorry. I mean yes you could go down the list on all the questionable things. I wish I didn’t have to take that path of questioning honestly.. it sucks that we have been put in this position. A lot of pride going on as well, both sides. A lot will reveal itself
@@pawollatounenmoun Exactly. And if the Tridentine rite is discontinued, it won't be the first time a rite has been discontinued, nor will it be the last.
@@pawollatounenmoun let me rephrase, we won’t be done, we’ll be in grave danger. I don’t want to rush into how I feel about what’s going on with the church but it is a very important question to ask where is the line drawn? Seriously where is that line? Also , why are there Catholics hell bent on ridding the TLM? It’s odd. And there is virtue signaling going on both sides of this fence. In a time when our church should be leading on what’s right and what is wrong, what is truth. We’re not being firm in it? Why? Why were we so easy on the pedophilia scandal? I mean basic basic truths. A protection for these bishops. It really is embarrassing, not only does it turn people away from the church but it’s pushing people to protastantism. Why would we be considering taking away a beautiful tradition or there be any compromise? I will admit the progressive mindset allowing things to slip, not preserving I detest. Because a lot of my life before my own reversion was this complacent mindset. I know thats anecdote but the more we lose and abandon things the more danger we place ourselves in. I understand Pope Francis articulates things a little different than most people’s liking but we need more of the masculine form in delivering truth than the feminine during this specific time in life. I don’t understand how anyone would disagree with that. There’s just a lot of dishonesty on both sides of this coin. Is there spiritual warfare happening at what it seems to be a higher level than we’ve ever seen? I think everyone could agree with that, my assumption is that is what is going on with the church we’re slipping.
Man, this is so true. A lot of the internet rad trads have their “authorities” and none of those authorities seem to be the Magisterium. I pointed out, like it or not, the pope does have the authority to regulate the liturgy. The response was, “Well Fr. Ripperger says he can’t.”
I think a better question to ask is WHY the Pope would want to change the liturgy, or seemingly go after traditional Catholics who are actually the ones who attend Mass regularly, have more families and children, and will without any doubt form the bulk of the future church.
@@Hereticalable that’s a valid concern but a separate question. I prefer the traditional Mass myself, but I’m just responding to the people who place somewhat famous priests above the Magisterium.
Praying for all schismatic priests religious etc may return to the Church
I´m just here for Jesus. Sinners have no influence in my decision to be catholic, because we are everywhere. I´ve also just got way too much on my plate to really care about church drama anymore.
I just keep my eyes on Jesus and not on the high winds and stormy waves that are rocking his boat, the Church right now. Gates of hell will not prevail!
I can not say that Jorge Bergoglio is not the Pope. But he is confused and spreading confusion and therefore not a father. Only God and His Church can determine a person's holiness.
Start calling him Pope Francis then.
Why do so many people assume vigano is wrong? Just because a proposition is outrageous or revolutionary doesn’t mean it’s wrong. Just like radical ideologies are sometimes right? We jump to conclusions too fast?
Because a lot of these podcasters and speakers won't acknowledge that the Church can and is being heavily infiltrated. There is an amazing book written in 1883 that predicted everything going on today and how the globalist freemasons would try to install a Pope to cause division. It's called "War of the Antichrist with the Church and Christian Civilization" By Msgr George Dillon. Highly recommend.
Well, of course radical ideas or ideologies are not wrong by default. Jesus was quite radical Himself. But Jorge Bergoglio =Pope Francis. Saying he isn't is like saying 1+2=4. Or don't you agree?
My position is that I don’t know if he is the pope. But I definitely think he could be a heretic. I question if Francis is even Catholic. He seems like a wolf in sheep’s clothing.
@@dyzmadamachus9842 you’re saying it’s not possible that Francis got elected fraudulently? Idk if he is or isn’t pope. But I know he is sewing confusion and division, he is abusing and overstepping his powers. No one pope or otherwise has authority to abrogate the old Mass.
Those who compare Vigano with LeFebvre make a massive mistake. LeFebvre never denied the pope as the pope.
God Bless Vigano!
Vigano is the only person in the hierarchy who called out the sexual deviants in its ranks in any meaningful way. People are going to react to that. People are also going to react to the holy father turning a blind eye to those deviants. It’s really that simple
Neither of these two are old enough to know what Communism and Communists was really like. The Pope is a Communist and Vigano is quite familiar with people like this.
You don't need to have lived in Soviet Russia, or be friends with Engels to know what Communism is. And those who are old enough are not necessarily experts of communism.
Vigano supports Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Who's the communist?
The Pope is not a communist. He is a distributist. You should probably read Rerum Novarum and the Compendium of the Social Doctrine of the Catholic Church.
Well said, Father. Thank you.
I agree with Vigano
Then your not Catholic
Is there a link to the full episode? Refreshing conversation.
Imagine, if you will, it’s 2024. You're traveling through another dimension, a dimension not only of sight and sound but of mind.
You’re a Catholic. You go to Traditional Latin Mass, want the Eucharist on the tongue, and you believe in the real presence.
Then some people holding pride masses, blessing same-sex couples, and a Pope agreeing with Martin Luther on justification (a manifest heresy) calls you a “divider” and “schismatic”.
That's the signpost up ahead- your next stop, the Twilight Zone!
Ah! another individual with a Masters in Theology!
I join millions of Catholics in this hour when we feel that everything that I believe in all my life is false. Today I’m considered rigid, a museum pice. The letters that pope Francis presents do not inspire me to read, because of the double talk, like in Fiducia suplicans, tradicionis custodis. I feel that the Holy Roman Catholic Church is no longer with us. That was a church of Jesuschrist, his holy mother, the comunión of saints and martyrs. The church of today is the synodal church, where you can command any desire and consider a leader to be imitated, like if you are LGBT+, with no repentance, you are fine, if you are transgender, that is fine, just an evolution or degradation of lgbt+ concept, etc. etc. like many people that love the Catholic Church, I feel that I’m rejected, because they think that I’m perfect, absolutely no, because I’m a sinner I need a home. May God forgive me for wanting the traditional church.
Learn the faith
Dear friend and sibling in Christ. Some words of advise: I have been very sceptical of this Pontificate. But by coming closer to God, building a relationship with Jesus and distancing myself from the distrust that was growing inside me, I learned that the people who shout "confusion" the most are also the ones who gain most by it. And that ppl who speak very convincingly often know little.
Also I distrust the motives of people who can criticise one person, but when asked won't know one positive thing to say about them.
Not condoning Vigano's statements or actions, but I understand his saying "badge of honor" differently. Imagine being condemned by a tyrant because of being opposed to the tyrant, not being against the union with the body, because the opposition to the tyrant is a symbol of his love of the body.
If you see the Church only as a Human endeavor yes there can be tyrants but as it is conceived by Jesus supported by The Father and inspired by the Holy Spirit, no there is no rebellion possible. Imagine the Saints were even more devout and supportive of the Pope at the Dark ages of the Church, when there were clear crimes committed (Popes with illegitimate children that were given positions of power, etc.)
And Satan being cast from heaven was a badge of honor because he was standing up against the tyranny of God. You see how this doesn’t help his case at all.
@@SevereFamine I don't feel I can compare our current pontiff to God, nor Vigano to satan. If you feel comfortable with that reduction, I don't think we'll have a productive conversation.
@@ignacioiriarte338 Restating my disclaimer: I don't condone nor support Vigano's statement. I simply believe I understand it differently.
Do we have wolves in shepherds' clothing? Indeed, we have tyrants in the Church, too. Unfaithful sons of the Church can do the devil's work, as well. Being opposed to the tyrants and feeling pride in being attacked by one as a persecution for Christ's sake is a different thing than awaiting applause after one says, "Call me a heretic," finished with an unsavory opinion.
@@jamesalewis Maybe you've misunderstood the Catholic Church for a long time. I've always understood it to be that you can have your private disagreements with the Holy Father, even amongst your small group of friends or family. You take these to the Lord and pray that God guides him.
Now however, we have people who feel they have the authority to go online and leave permanent comments on social media labelling the Holy Father with words like "tyrant" that imply they have the jurisdiction and moral certitude over the matter.
Be honest, do you pray more for Pope Francis to be led by God correctly or do you pray more for the removal of Pope Francis?
It’s hard to submit to Rome when Rome insists on enacting or confusing the laity with anti Catholic ideals
Submit anyway.
@@pawollatounenmoun No.
@@Kostaki312 not everyone will obey Christ.
@@pawollatounenmoun Jesus isn’t some fat old Italian man in Rome
no, but Jesus did select this fat old Italian man to be the holder of the Keys, like it or not. But then again, your language already betrays you. So, peace.
So the 'pope' is fine if you worship satan or allah, or are jewish, or protestant, or worship puchimama or whatever....but if you say the novus bogus church isn't in union with all previous popes then you are excommunicated and so would be in the same status as those i just mentioned... Sounds like the work of Freemasonry in the hierarchy of the schismatic church. Pray for the restoration of the Church.
It is exactly what Pope Benedict complained about in his Regensburg statement. These people don't believe in a consistent rational God. The church can radically change with Vatican II in direct opposition to the spirit of Vatican I because "God is guiding the church." God guided Paul VI to put restrictions on the Latin mass, he then guided Benedict to remove them and then he guided Bergoglio to put them back again all after promoting it for over five hundred years. The Bergoglians are like mentally stunted dufflepods from Narnia hopping around on their one leg of "Francis is Peter and your bad if you don't like him."
Ecumenical Movement brought confusion.
Q: Why were Protestants invited
to Vatican 2 Council ?
@ShirleyAnnPetrillo-oj7sc I think it was because the masons who infiltrated the Church could work side by side with the mason protestants to destroy the Mass, making it almost identical to meaningless protestant services
1. YES
Answer: They were observers.
St. Joan of Arc, pray for us
If you believe the premises Vigano, SSPX, and other traditionalists hold, then Vigano’s position looks far less radical. But then you’d have to believe that the hierarchy today all the way to the top really is infected by a diabolical attitude toward the Faith. It may be true, it may not.
No! Say that's not so! the Vatican officials might be diabolical? The cardinal that was a member of the O.T.O., Operation Gladio,, the P2 lodge scandal, the murder of John Paul I by the Chicago mob, the rebirth of the Febronian heresy by Vatican II, the promotion of the Kundalini Charismatic movement, the erection of the Moloch statue in the coliseum, the worship of Pachamama by two Franciscan friars while a "pope" proudly watches, The handing of the church over to her enemies with the "synodal process", Cocaine fueled orgies hosted by cardinals, male prostitutes flocking around picking up clergy, the protection of Rupnik, seducer and violator of nuns, and other monsters, the betrayal and abandonment of the Chinese faithful, the protection and funding of alleged child trafficker Gustavo Vera can't all be evidence of such a thing.
After years of being scandalized, archbishop Vigano seems to have felt lost. Prays are needed for him. Also prays for Pope Francis.
To be honest, when I first came back to the church around 2019 I had a lot of gripes with Pope Francis, thinking he should know better, how can a Pope do X,y, and z. What I failed to realise and this applies to both sides of the pew, is that how we see things currently and judge thier outcome isn't what God sees in its entirety. Meaning the incident with the Pachamama, almost every well informed Catholic would go that's idolatry. Whereas there's Catholics that submit to the climate change worldview and even by how they talk about it makes it seem like the climate is independent of God and it's its own seperate entity capable of consciousness and will of it's own. I see that as God basically pulling down the veil for confused Catholics and even Christians to tell them bluntly that that worldview is essentially placing nature above God, even how they refer to it as mother nature.
On the other hand, there's Priest's that go about breaking church teaching; even latest documents, where they will advocate ssm and blessings of couples. This too may well be God's way of attempting to get those Catholics deluded by false compassion to see the error in their ways.
Just like how the situation with archbishop vigano maybe God's way to reveal to Vigano's followers that their actions and dissent go against the virtue of Christian obedience. Can the pope be wrong on certain topics, of course. But that doesn't disqualify him because he has different views to our own. Unfortunately Archbishop Vigano seemed to overstep on this issue and it was rightly addressed by the church.
I know in the tradition Latin mass crowd is a toxic tendency to speak derogatorily of Pope Francis by saying "Bergoglio says... Bergoglio this, Bergoglio that" there's no respect for the office of the Pope, which is quite disgusting, even to the point where some claim after Vatican 2 there's been no legitimate Pope.
At the end of the day all we can do is to pray for both sides to be humble, charitable, merciful and just whilst helping each other grow in virtues of Christ. I know I definitely need to do that too.
Think carefully as you hear the echo in your chamber. The pride that comes with a "podcast" or social media following is exactly what you promote/condemn in this discussion. This temptation has plagued leaders both secular and religious since the beginning of time. Vigano may truly be in disobedience; that does not mean that his reasons are invalid.
Exactly!
Yea, but what is Francis is the schismatic and taught things contrary to the faith, which leads people away from the faith? In which case, Vigano simply stood up for the faith against someone trying to harm it. Therefore, can Vigano be blamed for trying to protect Holy Mother Church?
What did Pope Francis teach that was contrary to the faith? Have you forgotten he is the Vicar of Christ? Do you really think Jesus will allow his own chief shepherd and representative to lead people down the road to perdition by a false teaching?
He taught that it is "illicit" to try to persuade anyone to become Catholic. There goes this podcast. ... There's other examples too.
Yes, there have been bad popes, not often but yes. God allows it.
@@mayannsteinbeisser5228pope is not the Vicar of Christ, he doesn’t want to use that name anymore
@@mattnieri1202 Sources?
@@mattnieri1202 I think you are putting words in the pope’s mouth. What he actually said during a papal audience was Catholics shouldn’t proselytize. Rather, we should evangelize. He then proceeded to make a distinction between the 2. He explained, “And it does not begin by trying to convince others, but by witnessing every day to the beauty of the Love that has looked upon us and lifted us up.” He’s basically saying that we would be more effective in convincing others by showing them how God has transformed our lives instead of trying to win them over by the power of our oral/intellectual arguments.