Key Episode!! (Insomnia Insight
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- Опубликовано: 6 фев 2025
- In this episode, Coach Daniel updates the timeless sleep window.
He covers the evolution of this concept, discusses the benefits and challenges of sleep restriction, and provides practical advice and answers common questions.
Would you like your copy of our FREE 'Off-to-Dreamland' kickoff booklet?
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Happy reading!
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Would you like to work with one of our certified sleep coach? Awesome! Here are some great options:
The Insomnia Immunity Group Coaching Program.
BedTyme, a sleep coaching app for iOS and Android offering 1:1 text based coaching.
Zoom based 1:1 coaching
The Insomnia Immunity program is perfect if you like learning through video and want to join a group on your journey towards sleeping well.
BedTyme is ideal if you like to learn via text and have a sleep coach in your pocket.
The 1:1 Zoom based program is for you if you like to connect one on one with someone who has been where you are now.
Find out more about these programs here:
www.thesleepco...
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Do you like learning by reading? If so, here are two books that offer breakthroughs!
Tales of Courage by Daniel Erichsen
www.amazon.com...
Set it & Forget it by Daniel Erichsen
www.amazon.com...
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Would you like to become a Sleep Hero by supporting the Natto movement on Patreon? If so, that’s incredibly nice of you 😊. And here’s the link to do just that:
/ thesleepcoachschool
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Not sure where to start on your path to sleeping well? Check out these playlists!
This is natto - the perfect place to start learning!
• This is Natto - Start ...
Success stories - if you need hope and inspiration, this is for you.
• Success stories
Insomnia insight - a list of every single episode.
• Playlist
Talking insomnia - guests with trouble sleeping or experts share their stories / tips.
• Talking insomnia
Hypnic jerks, hypnic awareness and other common issues.
• Hypnic jerks and more.
Fatal insomnia - for those concerned about ffi and sfi.
• Familial and sporadic ...
Speed bumps - when you think you had a setback or “relapse.”
• Talking insomnia #55: ...
Unrefreshing sleep - when you always feel tired or exhausted.
• Unrefreshing sleep
Momsomnia - if you’re a mom or becoming a mom.
• Momsomnia
Heard online - when you’ve worried about claims made about health problems and insomnia.
• Heard online
Best!
This content does not constitute medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment, and should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or other qualified healthcare providers.
I have been avoiding clocks after 9:45 but I realized yesterday that I am putting a lot of effort into this. Setting my watch face to a traditional hands clock so I can’t read it as easily if I peek at it. Avoiding the kitchen cuz there are 2 clocks in there. Making sure I don’t look at the north side of my bedroom cuz that’s where a clock is. It was making me stress out!
Last night I lightened up a bit. Didn’t reset my watch face. Watched tv in bed and saw the clock on the tv guide channel. Amazingly my brain didn’t automatically calculate my anticipated sleep time. I didn’t sleep particularly well cuz I had a pretty harsh apnea night but I have no idea how long I slept or how “efficient “ I was. Today has been just fine. I feel good and everything is normal.
Thank you coach Daniel!
Such a wonderful comment to read :-) thank you so much for sharing and be in touch!
I have had a similar experience. Ultimately, if we see the time and find our reaction to be neutral then for me, that's the best place to be. I've gone from checking the time, ie during the night and deliberately calculating how many hours I have to gain sleep, to trying to avoid seeing the time, to now being more flexible around the time, ie not seeking the time, but also not trying to avoid the time
I already employ this method because Iam tired from the day and ready to rest my weary bones. I usually awaken to use the bathroom about 3 hours after going to bed. ( I am a 75 year old female)
Sometimes I’ve slept for 3 hours but often not. The bed is cozy and I am resting which is good BUT then I am ready to sleep and periodic limb movements begin. I move from my bed to the couch and read or listen to you or another podcast and rest. Often I will sleep for a few more hours on the couch and then awake by 5:30. I’m ok but would like to stay in bed and rest. When I was sleeping better the limb movements stopped or I didn’t notice them.
Wow I'm totally relating to your concepts.
I started sleeping better after managing sleep anxiety but I still never slept like a normal person. I have fragmented sleep. And I've also faced so many speed bumps, 4 speed bumbs in 7 months where i don't get my sleep drive and dont sleep but then it lasts for like 15 days maximum and then i sleep 6-7 hours again but with frequent awakenings.
So glad our way makes sense 😊 and hang in there, it can take time before what we learn settles in and we see things really light and easy.
Hey there 👋🏻 I saw your comment where you suggested we contact somewhere and share our experiences. I'm up for it. It's just that anytime I reply my comment gets remöved 😭
Yes, I was reading my book and enjoying it and sleeping well, then I started saying ‘ I’ll read my book ‘to’ fall asleep’….then it all went wrong 😂😂….i am back on track now!
This is insight 😊!
The reason CBTi is so popular is that therapists often cite a >90% efficacy rate, making individuals feel that if it doesn't work for them, they are the problem, rather than the technique itself, because it supposedly works for >90% of people.
Totally, and when you look at the studies - the 90% mean something like “sleep latency decreased by 10 minutes”… how “successful” is that if you still live in fear or not sleeping? There’s a big problem with what’s been happeninng in this space, hopefully we can be part of changing everything
The seeing time thing in this video was very good to listen to. I put too much effort into not looking at the time and if I accidentally did I felt almost doomed and then anxiety about how ”little” time I had left made things worse
I appreciate the mention, Daniel! I like to frame the sleep window less as a way to build sleep drive (although that can be helpful) and more as a tool that can help us move away from chasing after sleep (for example, by going to bed earlier/staying in bed later). If we draw on our own experience as a guide we might recognize that the more we chase after sleep, the more elusive it can become. Furthermore, a sleep window (timeless or not!) also ensures we have sufficient opportunity to engage in actions that truly matter to us - actions that reflect our values and that keep us moving toward the life we want to live. After all, we might be more likely to enjoy a better quality of life from the moments we experience out of bed vs in bed. This can also expand the focus of our attention and reduce the power and influence sleep has over our lives.
Martin! That’s so amazing to not only get to mention how I get the “sleep window” idea from you, but to get more concept from the very source 😊 Which, the concept, I completely see the same. Thanks for checking in!!
Hi Daniel. I'm enjoying your videos. What do you suggest if you have to take medication at the same time each night? I currently set a reminder alarm at 21:45 but could this be more harmful?
So glad you are! What can help is to make this, 21:45 the start of not paying attention to time, be timeless as we say. And no, nothing harmful here, that’s our point - there’s nothing about sleeping or not sleeping that can harm us. And when we know we are safe, sleep happens easily 🙂
@thesleepcoachschool8192 honestly, this video was timed so perfectly for me as this is exactly what I've been experiencing. Thank you so much for all you do. Will be recommending your teachings here in the UK 🙂
@lins2905 😊🙏!!
I went to a psychiatrist today, and told her about Daniel's books and mentioned his channel, the doctor agreed. But still suggested me to take meds, to do physical activity and not to use mobile phone (as my screen time is 10h/day). The doctor says I'll get my recovery, it's just sleep anxiety. 50% of me still says that nothing's gonna change no matter what I do. But 50% of me is hopeful. Let's see what happens after a month...
Hey there! 👋🏻 How are you doing now? I know this isn't my place to ask but could you share what medicines were prescribed to you and what about the dependancy on them ? I am thinking of coming on meds too in the future if I have exams and all but im so worried of building this dependency on them.
@@Sunflowersarepretty I've been prescribed with zolsoma 5 (combination of zolpidem 5mg and melatonin 3mg), I'd suggest always consult with your doctor before trying any meds, your doctor will not let you get addicted to meds. I asked my doctor about dependency, she said "don't worry about that, I'm here to take care of it".
Hello
I was so rigid about sleep because I was afraid I wouldn’t sleep . I was so intent on getting to bed at a certain time , tracked my sleep with a Apple Watch , and made sure a had a good sleep routine . Even tried to sleep when I wasn’t tired .
After watching your videos , it now seems all wrong and so paradoxical .
I have made some small changes to be less rigid .
I guess the Apple Watch was a pretty bad idea 😮
Thank you
The paradox with all of this
Hey Daniel I’m 20 years old I’ve been suffering from insomnia for a year I’ve read ur book and Sasha stepsons book I’m not scared of sleep but still can’t sleep I saw ur wonder wall video but still have not made progress I get 2hours a night this is getting real old and tiring?any suggestions I’m as calm as a cucumber at night in regards to anxiety can u make a video more in detail? Thanks
Hi Tommy, sorry to hear but, glad you’re here. And yes, I think this topic will resonate with many, will plan this for next week. Hope it helps!
So helpful! Seeing the time when watching netflix has been something that I've been wondering about. Great tip to just put a piece of tape on the corner of my laptop!
Sometimes i also use an extra alarm clock and change the time zone of my mobile devices. So I don‘t know what time it is.
Hi Daniel & Sleep Coach School. I was wondering if you had any resources or ideas about OCD / nasty bed time routines? Insomnia has been part of almost my whole life and I'm really curious to see where this journey will bring me and the new perspective that is unfolding. I bought Set it & Forget it too, great book!
So... I only suffer from OCD at night when I can't help myself from going through this absurd routine meticulously every evening like checking cables and door locks, counting stuff to 15 and aligning shoes and whatever. I do it several times and yeah I won't even go into the weird details but... This is kind of a state of hyperarousal I presume and its really impacting my work of trying to relax about the whole sleep issue. I can't shake off the feeling that I won't be able to sleep if I don't do these things. What should I do? Thanks so much!!
Hi Boilah, thanks for getting the book and - so glad you liked it 😊! I think something that really helps is seeing that all these inner struggles we can have, they’re all really the same.
For example, we can understand OCD through and insomnia lens and we can understand insomnia through an OCD lens.
We would call all those rituals and routines sleep efforts, an OCD coach would call them compulsions. They are the same thing! Attempts to control things that cannot be controlled, magical thinking.
When we see this, and we see how not only does this apply to inner struggles, but we all have this type of thinking in our daily lives, we see that we are just humans with a human brain.
Then we aren’t so hard on ourselves, we can accept whatever thoughts, emotions and behaviors we have without trying to control them… and then there’s no struggle. Whether we called the struggle insomnia, OCD or something else 🙂
Check the talking insomnia episodes with Andreas and also OCD recovery, a channel many in our community like.
Rooting for you!
How do we address fragmented sleep or terminal insomnia if we are not implementing sleep restriction and sleep efficiency tracking?
I sleep for 4-5 hours then wake up. If I do fall back asleep, then the sleep is fragmented.
I think it’s about seeing that fragmentation and waking early is also from hyperarousal, which tends to get more intense the more we intervene…
Hi Daniel since I first reached out to you I’ve been having on and off insomnia. Ill go some beautiful months of great sleep and then it starts again. This is my third time. It’s like a cycle. Will this always be? Then when it comes it’s the same pattern- anxiety, Hypnic jerks.
This is my situation too and it can be extra frustrating because sometimes after sleeping better for awhile I’ll have one night of constant hypnic jerks or adrenaline rushes before even feeling anxious and that sets off the anxiety, leading to more jerks each night and more nights without sleep! That said, what really helps me now is that I genuinely know and trust that I will sleep again without them happening eventually, because I have before, even after bad bouts of insomnia. That knowledge that I’ll sleep again soon and will be ok even if I don’t, makes it all much more bearable and I’ll only have a few nights of bad sleep at most, rather than the endless days of it I had when it all started. Daniel’s videos rescued me and I tell everyone about them whenever I can! When and if it starts up again for you, remember you will be ok and you will sleep again soon, even if this bout lasts for a little while ❤
@ Hi 🙋♀️ i read you had 9 days zerro sleep. For me it happends also 9 days without sleep. Do you take any pills to sleep after the 9 days ore the sleepcomes alone?❤️
My timeless window is between 10pm to 6am but lately I am getting very sleepy by 9pm. Do I go to sleep or try to stay up until 10pm. Thank-you
Hi. I think in terms of insomnia and recovery it doesn't actually matter which of those you do, what really matters is your decision making process. I like to misquote the song: It Ain't What You Do, it's the Way that You Decide It. If you think "I'm sleepy and can't focus on things so I may as well go to bed", that's fine. Similarly if you go "I want to do the dishes/sort that document/finish my book before I go to bed, even though I'm sleepy now", that's also fine. The problem happens when you go "I must go to bed at the best time for my sleep and it's bad if I make the wrong decision" because then you are teaching/reinforcing the idea that there is danger around bedtime. It's true that one of the options could be slightly better for your sleep on any particular night, but so could a thousand other uncontrollable things, and in the long term you can recover even if you make the 'wrong' decision every time.
When you sleep 10-6 , is your sleep interrupted? Do you have frequent awakenings?
Like @AndrB7 said! Intent is what matters 🙂
You will learn, eventually, that you can't overthink this. It'll trip you up.
Im so impatient that I didn't even finish watching this video because i had so many thoughts popping in my mind 😭😭
Hey coach Im afraid my sleep has worsened alot since last week. Previously i was still able somewhat get some sleep even if it was hyper arousal sleep. Now im just lying in bed and its like my mind's so vigilant because i have my exams and I've always been this way never relaxing or taking some breaks for the fear i might get caught up in that distracting fun so movies, no fun nothing. But I was able to rest well and i gues I know why. I used to go to school and had a routine. Now i dont and ever since my insomnia started im afraid to even work because i don't want to commit to something in such a state.
This week has been the toughest in life. I got zero deep or light sleep. Im just worried what if this becomes the new norm???
I don't like how my brain equates the pressure of exams to some life threatening event. Like no matter what i tell myself it's so annoying that i just cant convince my deeper inner most self that it's alright and i should let sleep come. Im hyper alert these days.
Is there anyone else who went through something similar as me? 😭😭
Sorry to hear about the struggles but - glad you’re here and you know, many have been in this exact place. Check the talking insomnia and with Kristen, she had medical school exams!
Thanks@@thesleepcoachschool8192
Your vidoes are keeping me going. ❤
I think, whenever I'll have exams in the future, I'll just take sleeping pills, I won't be too harsh on myself.
I was in a similar spot. I even answered you before when your exams were coming up. You probably won't be able to just calm down and fall asleep in your state. What's happening is that you're currently learning but you don't know it. You're learning that you're able to do very hard things on little to no sleep. This is going to be invaluable in your coping skills with insomnia later on. There is extra pressure on you with these exams. Might not be the best time... Even though I hadn't done the immunity program, what I wish I'd done differently (but I didn't know about SCS back then...) is to take a passive year, and enroll in the immunity program. I don't know about recovery as I don't consider myself recovered. But you can improve your state by a large margin with their teachings. But you need time. In this hightened and fearful state you might do something not so smart like giving up your studies to preserve sleep like I did. So push through this and enroll in the program as soon as possible.
@@mestaynothank you for your advice.❤❤ I cannot afford to enroll in the programme now however I'm benefitting from the teachings here.
I guess I have to be patient and use this as a learning moment. After all my brain is only trying to help me.
I'm amazed at myself tho that I was still able to give my exams and learn things even while being in such a state. I have a two day gap and i slept well last night as if my brain made up for the previous weekk exhaustion 😅
I like to listen to the radio in the night and they have the news on the hour, so I know what time it is. Is this ok as long as I don't worry about it?
I've had a similar experience and have found myself avoiding listening to my favourite radio station (instead listening to pre recorded shows, however they have news ever hour). The realisation that im avoiding this as a means of not ramping up my anxiety, has helped me move towards having more of a fearless /accepting approach, ie knowing that an hour passed is ok, seeing the time is ok, however if we do notice spikes of anxiety/resistance to our situation, trying to relax and be kind to oneself. Saying that, it's not easy. After having a reasonable spell of good sleep, I experienced an all nighter on Tuesday and for the latter part of the night/early hours of the morning, found myself struggling with strong emotions (the wish to be sleeping /not be awake) and struggling to befriend/accept the situation. However, I'm seeing it as yet another opportunity for self discovery and learning. All the best on your journey
Ian answered sooo nicely 🙂
@@thesleepcoachschool8192 thank you. I've clearly taken in all of the excellent teachings from the Sleep School, but really appreciated your comment (Insomnia UK 😊)
hei daniel, pls answer me, did someone with fatal insomnia can feel sleepy ?
Hi Daniel, I‘m really afraid that insomnia will destroy my physical appearance. This fear in turn triggers insomnia even more because I really wanna get rid of it. Do you have any tips on how to deal with this? I’m sure I‘m not the only one
Hi, yes we call this appearance insomnia and it’s very common. Check episodes 388 and 496… rooting for you!
So so helpful. Your content is full of such wisdom. Can't thank you enough. 🙏🏼
You just did 😊🙏
Hi, I know this maybe a strange question. Is it normal to have suicidal thoughts due to severe insomnia? Thank you
From my own experience, yes, absolutely ❤
@@ianquigley5070Thank you for replying and relating❤
mine too : yes. i was already depressed in such a bad state and sleep was that thing that would take my pain away. i would always wish after waking up that if only i didn't wake up (you know where this is going). That's how sleep was for me. after all the anxieties starting coming in my sleep it took away the one thing i so loved. i felt even worse. so this is not strange at all :)
@Sunflowersarepretty Hi, I really understand how you are feeling and what you are going through. Not being able to sleep on top for mental health problems is the worst because sleep is our way of escaping depression, anxiety, etc, and once sleep is disrupted it can be such a vicious cycle because now we are dealing with both problems. I don't see my mental health being the problem since ive had severe insomnia. I believe my insomnia is making my mental health a lot worse. Thank you for replying back to😊
Thank you for being so compassionate. I do wish you the best and pray that you find healing and insomnia leaves your life. Pls take care of yourself and always know that we are here you ❤❤@@kimjane7172
Hi Daniel, have you ever suffered from insomnia? If so, to what extent?
Hi! No, never had a struggle with sleep but of course choppy nights here and there. But, we are all the same, the thought patterns we have in insomnia I recognize very much in my own life. If you want to hear more check the episode on Alina’s channel where she interviews me!
Why does some people's insomnia disappear quickly even when they are anxious and others deal with it for years even when not seemingly anxious? Assuming both genuinely follow advice of channel. I know insomnia is about fear and that no insomnia is unique but sometimes it feels that way.
@@leafsleafsleafs2 I'll tell you what I think, maybe people who recover faster have the least information about insomnia, people who struggle are the one who are information overloaded. Who have read about the best and the worst cases of insomnia, who are continuously trying to find more and more about insomnia. I'll tell you what happened to me. I'm 18 but I had my first insomnia when I was 16. But that time I didn't go online and researched about it , I only listened to my doctor who gave me some of the tips to calm myself down and that's it, I recovered in 5 days. Then again I got insomnia when I was 17, I again went to the same doctor, she again told me to calm down, and again I recovered in 1 month, but this time. I went all online, read about the most terrific insomnia stories, took opinions from 1000s of strangers, read 3 books about it, watched this channel. And it's been 7 months and I do sleep 6-8 hours but in fragments which means I'm still an insomniac and my doctor eventually had to prescribe medicine to me now because now only calming myself down is not the answer.
Hi there! We meet again.
I cannot speak for anyone else but I know in my case if only I had found this channel soon and didn't let this get bigger it would've been so much easier for me.
Now it's taking so long and with all speed bumps plus the fact that we literally go to bed every night and no matter how much we remind ourselves that its alright at some point it really does affect us. With anything else occupying our mind it gets replaced or something else takes priority over it. However I cannot think of anything else that could replace the worry of sleep. Like even if we don't go to bed every body else does and seeing that does put pressure on us.
Or At least for me. I know a lot now yet I still cried alone today in the bathroom for the fear that I don't want things to be this way forever. I felt equally frustrated and helpless because cognitively I know why its happening and as much as I'm trying to not attach myself to sleep I literally feel it effects now (like as if the theory is being tested and I'm just not able to act upon it because it has not seeped in deeper in subconscious) I have to put my anxiety, vigilance else where which is for exams. My brain literally refuses to even catch a break for a minute for the fear that this might make me miss out on exams and relaxing would mean forgetting things because when I'm in that state (exam prep) I literally cut off all forms of entertainments that could help me calm down. (Doing that is my way of making sure I don't forget or miss a thing when it's needed. Yes I am very controlling and a perfectionist. )🤷🏻♀️ I know I just shared my entire experience which was not asked for but I'm only doing so if something makes sense🤷🏻♀️
while for others it could be that they just started going through it recently and early knowledge benefitted them (there's didn't progress to this state as I'm in now) or those who have been dealing with and gotten used to it like big or small events come and go and they just have come to terms with it. maybe its easier for them now 🤷🏻♀️ like I knew I gave in the pressure when my exams started.
@@Sunflowersarepretty thank you for sharing your experience. That sounds really tough 😞 I understand. for me it started because I was attacked while I slept so it was a PTSD event which caused the insomnia and I don't know how the brain can unlearn the fear even when I consciously try to work through it so I don't think it would improve quickly for me regardless of when I found the channel. I've been in trauma therapy and it's somewhat beneficial for PTSD. I found the channel a few months ago and try to implement the advice but not many changes in anything based off channel to be honest other than sometimes better mindset. I don't feel pressure I just miss who I used to be. I don't want things to be this way forever either but sometimes lose hope.
I had no idea this happened to you and I'm so sorry that it happened. I don't know how to offer any words of advice other than keeping you in prayers. ❤❤ Feel free to reach out to me or anyone here when things get tough. I remember you advising to do the vagus nerve exercises and I felt grateful to you. Pls stay strong and love yourself ❤❤❤@@leafsleafsleafs2
Thank you ❤ @@Sunflowersarepretty
Hi Daniel, first off I can’t thank you enough for all of your work that you do!! I appreciate it more than I can say!!
I have a question that I really need help with, if you have the time to answer!! I recently had a baby, and the only way I could get myself to sleep in between night feedings was to pray. Of course I know there’s nothing wrong with praying, but I know that I was doing it just to make myself fall asleep. But the thing is, that it was working! My brain races so much at night that it gave me something to focus on and kind of hone in all of the rampant thoughts . However, now I am worried that I will not be able to sleep without doing this every time. I know nothing can produce sleep, but this sort of has been for me because it creates a sense of calm that I otherwise cannot get. So now I’m stuck on what to do, if I don’t pray, though there’s no way I can fall asleep because my mind never shuts off!! But I also realize that this is now maybe just a sleep effort and I may need to take a break. I just don’t know how to fall asleep without doing it and it’s hard to stop something that works right now ! Please, please please help❤️
Good insights as always! Have been following you for years and my insomnia went away as i learned to befriend wakefulness! One thing ive been curious about is your thoughts on medication induced insomnia? I recently started taking a medication that i need to be on for 6 months, one of the side effects ppl have reported is insomnia, which i have started struggling with again since starting this med. No matter what time of day i take it, i have a hard time sleeping. How do I get it out of my head that the medication is creating insomnia and that I can sleep while on this drug?
Thnx as always:)
Thanks! So glad to hear you found our way helpful and you know, I think if you tune in to episode 513, that can really help, so can the recent episode 542. Hope those help and be in touch 🙂
One of the best videos yet 👍👍👍
Thanks out dear coach!