Goth is goth, as long as you understand the concept and history of it, if you feel you are part of it then be yourself and be creative, if you like skulls but also like Popsicles heck make a necklace out of skulls and popsicle charms. Though it is fun to kind of use labels, people shouldn't get too attached to it. Be free
I completely agree with you on this, while I occasionally explain myself using stylist phrases eg trad I think it doesn't really matter what type of clothing people wear or if they don't have the stereotypical mindset of an goth. if someone is into the Goth or Gothic lifestyle them they should be able to express that in whatever way they see fit.
I agree with everything you said but the history part, that's like saying you're American only if you know the history behind it, most Americans don't know their own history. Which is why they don't learn from their mistakes, but that's a different topic.
american is something youre born with, goth is something you become. its a conscious choice to take on the label of goth and it shouldnt be something thrown around imo..thats how we get edgy 12 year olds calling themselves goth and ruining the image of the subculture.
Goth is on the inside...It doesn't live in Blackcraft, Killstar, Hot Topic, or any other dark fashion or dark-art related retail organization... That's all just "icing on the cake"...It's about creativity and expression, and everyone's different in their approach on that...
I remember, back in the early/mid 00's, if you didn't have Demonias or New Rocks you were "not a real goth" or a poser, which I've always found very stupid and kinda classist, since they're too expensive, especially compared to their poor quality. I personally always preferred going out in the random shops we had available to find the "right" clothes and accessories, or even make my own. I find it more personal than just buying a big brand set of clothes/acc etc. Not saying it's not "real goth" or even lazy, I still own a couple of old Emily The Strange pieces, it's just a matter of personal expression to me, to find something not targetted as goth but making it as such. Does it make sense? Idk, I feel old tho :')
@@DEATHBYFLYINGCDS The music is just one segment.Goth has always been the culture, the history, the ideology, the creativity, the spiritual connection to the other side.
@@jaqenhghar4602 except no it hasn't. Before the music, there was nothing, without the music it is nothing. It is a music based subculture. The culture is music based, history is of the music, there is no ideology other than fuck nazis everything else is up to the individual, the creativity is in the music, every other creative venture goths get into is not exclusive to goth... and the spiritual connection? DEFINITELY NOT, I'm a Catholic myself, there are athiests, satanists, wiccans, pagans, Muslims, etc. There is NO GOTH SPIRITUAL ASPECT. Believe or don't believe anything you want as long as you don't hurt other people with it
@@DEATHBYFLYINGCDS -most modern Goth, yes I would agree. But the origins go far deeper than the music of modern day. I was eluding to the the style of the art and the literature of Medieval times as well as Edwardian and Victorian inspired art. All of which have showcased the the darker side of the human experiences with emotions of sadness, death, dissatisfaction, the imagination of things of forbidden and the supernatural. All of which preceded the music of the modern era.
Maybe this has happened because goth has become more of consumer culture? I'm almost 40 so I remember when it was rare to have a goth shop and you really had to make or thrift your own stuff, which required creativity and just being open to trying different things, and maybe even different items from different decades. Anyway, great video!
Ivy Vanian completely agree. A lot of the more "popular" goths on the internet are constantly on social media and flaunt their status by showing off the things they own ala look books, hauls, and makeup tutorials. I'm all for seeing what cool new spooky inclined things I can get from monthly subscription boxes, but everything else posted has no substance, no soul. I want to see that but I ALSO want to see discussion, speedpaints or speeddrawing, hell I'd watch someone reading a gothic novel out loud for 30 minutes. Everything is turning into a big dick contest, goth on the internet is literally selling out.
Leeleekins McGee exactly. They are just commercials and bragging rights, rather than being creative and exploring the subculture (art, music, etc). Seems like most goths have lost that connection to their punk rock DIY roots and that's a damn shame.
I´m in my early 20s and for me it´s still all DIY and thrifting...I´m a custom tailor so of course my stuff looks quite professional, but even if I wasn´t able to sew that well I would prefer the DIY way. I just don´t like the clothes the goth brands sell, except for a few things and shoes anyway. :D
One of my biggest pet peeves within the culture right now is that people are referring to PEOPLE as "subgenres". Music has genres and subgenres, but PEOPLE don't come in "genres". They're all just people. So if someone is a goth, they're a goth, and that's it. They can listen to whatever genres or subgenres of goth music they like, but they do not become that subgenre of music themselves. I never hear anyone asking a metalhead or punk what "subgenre" of metal or punk they are, so why the hell are goths doing it?! That shit makes no sense lol I swear, it's like everyone decided to collectively forget about the word "style". Trad, pastel, nu-goth, corporate, etc. are fashion STYLES, not genres!! And no one should be made to feel like what they listen to needs to be dictated by their aesthetic of choice, or vice versa. I absolutely agree with you. In an already struggling subculture, the last thing we should be doing is telling newcomers that they need to pick a favorite subgenre within the spectrum of goth music, then follow the corresponding dress code for their identity to be considered legitimate. It's too much! And we wonder why the scene's become so damn stagnant. A music genre is not a fashion style, people! Ugh, sorry for the long rant, but this has just been driving me crazy since it started happening lol
BleedTheWineUnholy I think the terminology is just misplaced. “Subsets” or “subcategories” would be more accurate than the “genre” name. Still astute observations!
When i first realised i liked the gothic style, i was very confused. I was so conflicted because i thought I had to choose between the different goth styles, and i didn't want to. After finding your channel I realised I could just be me and wear the clothes that I liked, no matter "what kind of goth" they were considered. Over the last few years I've been able to express myself more and more, and I feel more like myself every day. Thank you for being so awesome, Angela!
Maja Myrvold You shouldn't need someone else's validation, to be yourself. You should have done what you wanted to begin with. That is what makes the world diverse. Who cares what others think. It's your life.
I just had to go Google Health Goth. I am too old to keep up with all these new labels and sub genres. lol Things used to be so much simpler. I don't remember ever believing I had to choose a specific style and stick to it. I never felt I had to only listen to , watch and wear things that could be considered goth . I have no idea why younger people feel such pressure to impress elitists. I don't understand. Why would anyone limit their self expression? Stifle who they really are? So strange.
I really just tease my mom with the label "Health goth" since she was a goth but also a hippie at the same time as I grew up (and now). It upset me when people would give her strange looks for being so into the environment while also into wonderful music. I completely agree since no one should feel like they can't enjoy more than one thing when she loved so many. Being a stage fighter, she also really loved the romantic and Renaissance dress since she wore them often, people should be able to enjoy so many things in their life. If you spent all your life never trying new clothes or activities, it would get boring, no?
CrimsonCatacombs I'm 15 years old and I personally feel that pressure by my friends. It's basically "If you don't listen to those bands / music of this type *only*, you're not _______ (enough)!" 1 year ago, I was punk, but because of that pressure I really felt like I was "a fake" or "not punk enough". And I quit. I'm really glad people like Angela Benedict exist
I don't label and like most types of music and dress all types of styles. Depends on mood. May be goth, punk, steampunk, trendy, girly, comfy when hone all day and something that can't be described. Grew up in the 80s, so it was punk and really never heard the word goth then. My weekend look. Had to clean up for work.
I felt alone for a while because of this. I always though that if i didn't belong to a certain goth group i wan't goth. I also spent way to much time looking ofr goths that are like me or at least similar.
Something that keeps me thinking about the Goths or grunge style is that most of the people are extra pale, white caucasian. It's like to see more brown skinned people, Olive or dark. sometimes Brown skinned people try gothic style but they get banned by other people by saying "that style is not for you cause You aren't pale". What do you think about that? Even if You feel goth and You understand it can You be one if You aren't extra pale? I'm olive tan skin and i got those kind of comments Everytime, although i do not dress totally goth but my interests and stuff and art style is...
Sale Vale me too. It’s hard to find people of my race on RUclips. Not that white goth RUclipsrs aren’t awesome. It’s just that certain hair or makeup tutorials and things I can’t follow along because I have an Afro. I know it’s not something I have to do, but it hurts to be like oooo that looks good on her but you can’t do it yourself. And the few that I did find stop doing RUclips because of the hate that they get (or other reasons). Not complaining but it would be nice to have someone who looks like me. I hope this doesn’t come of racist or anything and sorry for going on a small essay on your comment lol.
They're not worth your time the snobs. Do your own thing. You don't have to look like a ghost or have the same hair as some do. Being light olive and darker in the summer, I go with natural skin and don't dye my hair black. Get creative and have fun. There's always someone that will be a jerk if you're not a clone of them. You'll get looks, but I do too as a lone wolf with being older and no Goths around here or clubs. The older you get, the less you care about what others think. I get a kick out of it. Been around since the 80s and it's still in my system. My boyfriend loves when I do it up. Lol I try to sneak some lite gothish stuff when shopping for him. He's in training like I had to do with my husband slyly with his awful clothes his mother got him at thrift shops. The 60s and 70s are over dude. Lol Was,widowed after 22 years but 5 years later met my boyfriend. Not dead yet at 54 but can pass for younger. My mom did too.
I don't get why people would care about that. Goth is big in Mexico, for example. Any skin tone is fine. I would like to believe that this culture is smart enough to reject racism.
You‘re definitely not goth if u think someone isn't "pale enough" for this style. This is straight up bullshit!! U don’t need to be white to be goth, it’s about anything else but skin color or race!!
Bravo Angela. I wholeheartedly agree. Some days I feel more chains and spikes. Others, cloaks and velvet. Sometimes I'll even combine them into a strange hybrid. It is what it is. The obsession to add in subgenres on a subculture is ridiculous to me. When goth started in the late 70's, early 80's they didn't even have goth as a term. But you knew them regardless. Why should that change?
Adam StormCrow i agree , the problem isnt about age or a new generation , its about a way of thinking where some people Always think they can change something to suit them, this is complete bullshit. I say dont try to change it , go find another sub culture , dont destroy something to fit you taste , Most of these kids are lost when it comes to good taste and style anyway. Stick to your AUTO TUNE POP CRAP and your cartoon style fashion, or be true to the roots of the real goth culture , PERIOD.
Wow, lol. I thought that Goth was at least partially about non-conformity. Now you have to "pick your type". Granted I posted this before actually letting the video play...But ok, lets let this roll and see if I can find a place to fit in.
I'm 43, and all my life I"ve been an unapologetic rocker girl/goth. I've enjoyed rocker/goth music since I was in High School. If you open my closet right now you will see a sea of black and jeans galore. I have them because they are ME. And I feel wonderful, confident and beautiful when I wear them. I've never been too keen om labels...but I would love to know how I would be classified. C'mon everyone, give me your worst!!
Health goth??!! now that is a new one to me! The silly subgenres are multiplying! I think I will have to make up my very own subgenre and I will be the sole member of it. "Middle-aged crafty glitter darkcore* who likes a lot of non goth stuff too." Is that too long to be a subgenre? Oh well. if you can't remember the whole label, you just aren't committed enough. p.s. I will also forget the label in a few hours. because labels are silly. * darkcore is my own invention which is normcore+darkly inclined. AKA just normal clothes that are mostly black.
I consider myself to be "lazy-goth". I just wear a black top and pants with dark makeup and jewelry. I've never even dyed my hair. I focus on the music, literature, movies, etc...
I am 46 and gave up on sub genres a long, long time ago. I don't class myself as anything other than alternative. I was introduced to punk in the 70's through my older brother. I still love music from the 70's and 80's from post punk/new wave to new romantic to goth. I have never had an interest in clothes though. I am much more into music. It was much more mix and match back in the day, especially for girls, regarding clothes. Most boys were in chelsea boots, creepers or DM's, tight jeans, t shirt's, shirts or baggy jumpers and either biker jackets, army coats/jackets, crombies or suit/bowie jackets. That's still my "uniform" to this day. There were so many talented individuals back in the day that could achieve fantastic alternative outfits from mainstream shops/clothing and accessories. Now there are so many specialist shops/traders it's a lot easier, if more expensive, to achieve the look you are after. It must be so confusing for younger people new to the scene. It does not help with social media folk regularly calling people out for "doing it wrong". I always enjoy your videos and applaud your stance on elitist types. Sub genres only make this kind of thing worse in my opinion and it's something we could all do without.
Craig Welsh You sound like my mom! She just hit 50 and is still who she was back in her "punker" days. Even my mom has days when she just sorta "fits in with society", damn being an adult with a job! Lol! I was raised with a love of classic punk and goth music along with newer goth music (Manson and NIN). My mom never labeled my goth so I never did but my 14 year old labels her goth. It's all too confusing for us now!
Cassandra Darby Sounds like you have a cool family. Whether you call yourself or think of yourself as a Goth or whatever, doesn't really matter in the end. Dress how you want to dress. Be who you want to be. That is all that matters. x
I like all the different clothes. I use these sub genre names to look up clothes I like and styles I want to emulate, however I own like an article of clothing from each different style. Hell today my outfit looks like a goth anime idol. These people might not think I look like a goth, but to hell with them.
GOTH is GOTH no doubt when I growing up my style stared to change dramatically in if I remember a guy walked up to me I was in the 8th grade back in 2000 and he was with some friends he said "awwwe look at the baby bat" me not knowing anything about the subculture I'm like what? because I didn't see a picture and go "I wanna be that" my style just grew darker he explained to me what the term meant and all I was coolio OK them he goes " well what are you?" and me not knowing what he meant I gave him a dumbfounded face he says you have to pick and started listening things showing me pictures even went as far as sneaking me into a club he was if I remember 17 so him himself wasn't supposed to be there I'm looking around and come across so many different kinds of looks and I go home so I start making my own things I was a pro with a needle still am and a couple of days later I see him again he tells me I look like a mash of it all and he didn't like it. as him being my only friend I wanted to make him proud of me so I chose one look which was the look that was all the rage which was what they called "cyber" I loved it a lot I kept the look for over four years through highschool and one day I went what am I doing I pulled out what I had made four years back and slipped it on it magically still fit I looked at myself and went "this is me I'm a mash of everything" and I'm still that way if you conform to something its still conforming the idea is not conforming like what you like
Be you. Wear whatever style your little 🖤 desires, listen to the music you love. It makes no difference what others say, it only matters that you do what makes you happy. I've been goth since the 80's, (yes older goth here) but honestly I don't label others on how they dress or music they like, Goth is what you are in your heart. Stay Dark, everyone.
Definitely in agreement on this one. You're Goth, or you're not. We're not in the military, where fights can break out between Army and Air Force. We're not wearing uniforms; we're wearing cool clothes.
This makes me feel a lot better. I'm a baby bat and I always feel the need to categorize myself as in a subgenre because that what Instagram or the internet says. I really like the idea and message of this video that subgenres and fitting into millions of catagories doesn't matter, it's just goth.
I'm happy this video helped you. It sounds silly when you think about it. You need to pick a style in order to listen to the music you want and associate with the subculture? Give no credence to the gothic police, they're here for themselves.
I completely support and agree with you here. I was drawing girls with vampiric clothes and dark lips when I was 9, I first started turning Goth myself when I was 14, and by the time I was a sophomore in high school, I was full on into it and it's just stuck. Now I'm 22 and still doing it! There was a time when I myself was a baby bat and people telling me that I was a false Goth really used to bother me. One guy even said that "you aren't Goth if you call yourself Goth" - yes, it was very stupid. I therefore tried to conform to expectations, and in the end, I found doing so very stifling and miserable (and that's NOT Goth). I'm a very independent person by nature, so this stage didn't last very long and I broke free. I have since become more confident and mature, and I don't care what elitists think; they're missing the whole point behind Goth anyway, so I actually think they are the true fakes. They just take their own insecurities about themselves out on other people like any bullies do. Personally, I think it's absolutely true that there are different styles of Goth - but it's STILL Goth! I personally have alternated between elegant and romantic Goth with the vintage chokers and Goth with spiked bracelets and chains at the hips! And sometimes, I just wear T shirts! Limiting yourself to just one style under pressure from these people is like only wearing the newest brand name, designer clothes for all the mean girls to seem cool. Honestly, no matter what the label, just do you. 💜 Wear what you want!
Great theory Angela ( UnityGoth ) it's whats inside your views and interests that make's a person goth. Your so right drop all the tags and just join together. I like to think it's better to see some goth than no goth at all. With the lack of goth clubs and people hanging in parks like in the past the internet has made more separation than unity. I remember when a goth was just glad to see another goth and was thankful but now it's overkill on a plate and a jumble people don't have to find bands , clubs or clothes it's all on one plate to much of everything. Your so right everyone just join up no matter the sub tag i like your thinking.
I can't help it but your comment made me smile. I think I am old school. I am glad when I see people who dress Goth (regardless of style) offline. It feels like running into someone from my own tribe even when I am not dressed up as one all the time (toddler and Texan heat and I wear whatever I feel like).
This video is amazing! I have never heard of Health Goth before lol and barely 20 yet! Your videos have made me find more about myself within the Goth scene thank you so much❤😊
Krystal-Marie G I'm old enough to be your mother and what is a health Goth? I go to a gym but doesn't mean a thing. Still stand out in black tennis shoes, black leggings and especially the shirts. Lots of black cat ones. Still stick with fake tattoos. Can switch them out at will. Guess I'm a cat goth. Hehe Found a lot of goth cat leggings on eBay. Didn't realize on pair had pentagrams and anothers crosses on cats foreheads. Bought by phone and hard to see small details. Lol. Got a lot of cat themed goth stuff from Spiral Direct and Victorian skirts is which I'm starting to like more for that look which suits my age. Hard to do on a budget. Sale! Get it now. Lol. People love the black cat studded purse I have. At least 50 compliments on it. Got a new one, cat goth. Next dog goths. Then chicken and horse goths.😄🤣😅😂 we can make up more Goths than SJW genders. Got a good start from really just one that was a mish mash of a similar look.
This video deserves so much more views!! I watch a lot of goth youtubers and you are the only one who speaks clear and consistently. You are such an inspiration to me. I live in a country where the whole alternative scene is one massive elitist shit, not only goths, everyone here is calling each other "poser" constantly, so it gets really difficult to find someone who wants to share their knowledge and experience with the kindness and patience that you do it. I've considered myself goth for 10 years now but i never had the chance to have one single gratifying experience within the subculture. So thank you again for making this kind of videos, you have no idea of how much you are helping me. Love from Argentina♥ sorry is my english is not too good :(
That's awful. It sounds like a few people in Argentina need a serious lesson in not only the history of goth but how to treat people. Behaving that way will only get them so far because the bonds they make will be insincere and they'll find themselves alone and wondering why.
lol, I love the end of the video. sounds like something I would say. when I was young and starting out on becoming goth, I really liked the "trad goth" look (still do) except I called it "old school goth" ' cause I didn't know what it was really called or any other additional label. I thought goth was just goth. that's it.
That's what we called it too when we were younger! Old School, Classic or Punky goth. Leaning toward particular styles is so common but somehow some wires got crossed and these terms are now applied to people as opposed to clothes.
I fullheartedly agree with you. I avoided social networks for 5 years and came back to pastel goths, nu goths, trad goths... It feels weird and unfitting. I mean they shall all do whatever makes them happy, but I feel too old for that 😅 that box thinking was what brought me away from the "normal" society and now Goth seems to be turning into exactly that. Too bad :/ Also this post isn't supposed to be an elitist crying over the old days... I do think change is necessary in life. But keeping values also is. At least to me and people I know. Greetings from the Super Goth Capital Leipzig ;)
Thank you for your comment! It's weird to see all of these boxes and I agree, goth was a departure from that cookie cutter life and now we have our own cookie cutters. I don't think you sound like an elitist crying over the old days - Sometimes people lose their way or get here after the shit has already hit the fan and it takes someone whose seen it and lived it to fill in the blanks.
It used to be a joke among my friends that you’d loose goth points or have your goth card taken away if you didn’t (fill in the blank with whatever ridiculous bs was going around at the time). Screw them all, listen to what you want, wear what you want. Life is short. Do what makes you happy.
Goth genres? What ever happened to just "Goth"? Times sure have changed since I was in that scene. Yes...it's a scene young ones. You may or may not grow out of it. Just be yourself.
I always have felt that I can't classify myself as Goth because I don't fit into a certain subculture of goth (nu, pastel, romantic) and because I like rainbows, TMNT, and my music taste ranges from pop, rock, country, hip-hop and even some rap. I feel like if I classify myself as goth I will be facing the Inquisition, being questioned on all my knowledge of goth when in reality I just LOVE and feel confident and comfortable in black, bones, bats and cats. I have always been a nonconforming person, I have just naturally loved to wear funky outfits that used to not go together very well but over the years looked good but didn't fit in with the set standard of my urban country upbringing, I don't have a problem with being called a weirdo or creepy but the one culture I feel like I can fit into scares me because of lack of knowledge I don't want to be seen as a poser when I just want to be accepted as myself. A person who loves bats, bones, black, cats, blood spatter (I have a degree in Forensic Science), black roses, but is terrified of horror films and gore, I hate pink but I love purple and some pastel pink is cute (in very limited circumstances). I don't fit into a box at all which makes me happy but also scared because this world is very unforgiving to people who do not fit in. This is the community I feel like I fit in the most with but I also feel like I would be so out of place if I were to meet up with any other goths because I like to shop at Hot Topic and Spencers but I just keep hearing all of these Goths condemn anyone who shops those places or places like Killstar and Ironfist. I find the fashion cute and some stuff I would wear. I am not here to conform with supposed 'Goth' standards of dressing because that is bull but I guess I am just scared of all the hate I would possibly receive from the people who I would hope would become like family.
You're one of the first people I've ever seen who was Like Me in this sense! I don't label myself as goth because most of my interests are not goth at all - my favorite musicians are Lady Gaga and Panic! at the Disco, I watch shows like Supernatural and Nikita, and I love drag queens. I don't dislike goth music, but I don't love it enough to be heavily interested in it. I don't know much about goth history because honestly, I have memory issues, and knowing the lyrics to my favorite songs and remembering them is more important to me than when goth became a subculture, or the names of the earliest and most iconic goth clubs. I LOVE gothic fashion, but I love a lot of other fashions as well. Avant garde? sign me up. Boho? stunning! Goth fashion (or at least, a toned down version of it) is what I feel the most comfortable in, but I don't really fit into that box perfectly. Which, as you said much better than I could ever hope to, is something that makes me happy, but is also somewhat intimidating because of elitists and people of similar mindsets. Overall everything you said really resonates with me? I don't want to fit in any set box, but if I had to run with only one crowd, I'd suppose I would choose goth-if it weren't for the elitism. (I also tend to change my look from one day to the next-one day I'm very grunge, other days I look more emo, somedays I look very punk inspired, or pop-culture inspired- I LOVE reinventing myself from day to day. Because of that I'm afraid that nearly every alternative subculture could label me a poser- which isn't true-I just like expressing myself with fashion)
Just overall deeming oneself as Alternative could be a whole encompassing title to claim seeing as that would touch probably almost every subculture there is. I have joined a few goth group pages on Facebook but I feel like an outsider of sorts. Alternative is probably the best term I could classify myself even though I love Goth fashion and almost always wear mainly black clothing no matter the style of clothing. Yes, I totally understand the memory problem thing because I have the same problem, and history has never been a subject I have been good at so learning Goth history is not something I would probably remember well. I don't think expressing yourself with various fashion is wrong, I don't know why people get so bent out of shape over it. I somewhat understand culture appropriation but sometimes it isn't about the culture and it is just about thinking that the outfit is fucking cute. You do you and don't let anyone tell you you are wrong. If you say you are Goth then you are Goth but you don't have to run with a certain group. Life is too short to worry about stuff like that, live life to the fullest and have fun being yourself without worrying about what people thing or going to say. (I say all of this but I know it is easier said than done as I always have had a slight problem with doing this. So Good luck!)
I got a lot out of watching this video. If anything, I wish no one would ever attack anyone verbally based on appearance, or anything that pertains to whoever he or she may be.
As a somewhat babybat (been in the scene for like 7 months) this has been such a helpful video I get so much anxiety choosing labels in regards to what subgenre of goth I am, and to hear that's not necessary is just really relieving. It's okay if I wear pastels sometimes in my outfits it doesn't challenge my label as a goth. Thank you five years late.
THANK YOU for speaking out about this! My God I feel sorry for these poor girls and guys who are getting so worked up and drawn into this B.S. I grew up in the 90's as well and I can't believe the utter stupidity I see online today. You were either Goth or not, and even then the Punks and the Metalheads would share styles with them sometimes anyway. We were just the "odd" kids that often felt misunderstood because they didn't follow the mainstream crowd. In the end, it was the music that defined you, but really, for the truly authentic person, it was YOU that defined you. Really, what all this does is dehumanize people too. You're not an individual, nor even a person. You're a label and a stereotype and nothing more. Oh, and if you want out of your box, you better watch out because here comes the cancel culture squad. Oh and I loved the little "New York" edit you included at the end. That exactly describes how I feel about this subject, lol.
the fashion subgenres has a lot to do with social media hashtags, because people feel the need to curate their extremely specific aesthetics as part of their online brand. i know "health goth" (sportswear but make it black? lol) specifically exploded on tumblr and instagram, and a lot of people have been using "mall goth" lately as well, referring to the 90s-2000s goth styles you could buy at hot topic. but of course everyone takes their labels far too seriously, and there are endless debates on what is or isn't "really goth" instead of people just enjoying being goth together. it's nearly impossible to find an online space (let alone a physical space) where the conversation isn't dominated by self proclaimed "trad goths" trying to poser check some random kids on tiktok for using the hashtag "mall goth" in a video where they wear a My Chemical Romance tshirt. it's ridiculous and annoying as hell, like everyone is so concerned with appearing The Most Goth on the internet that nobody can have a conversation for fear of ruining their Super Goth image
This is an old video so you may not see this, but I just want to thank you for putting these types of videos out! I was raised by punk parents, grew up with the punk music, lifestyle and fashion. I've always loved goth fashion but didn't consider myself goth for a very long time. Honestly, I was intimidated by the thought because it all seemed so complex. Over the years I have stepped back a bit from the punk lifestyle (though I still love the music!) and have learned a lot about the goth subculture and history. You're one of the few youtubers who really inspired me to take the dive and give the subculture a try. I never felt the need to compare myself to others when I identified as a punk, and now I see that goth is very much the same way in that regard. Thank you for working so hard to tear down the walls the modern goth community insists on putting up. Bravo! I'm not new to the alternative life, but I'd like to give you credit for helping to bring out the "baby bat" in me!
This past two videos came at just the right time for me. I started Goth back in the early 2000's, but for reasons, steeped away from the fashion side of it for a while. I never stopped loving the music and culture, but I was apprehensive to call myself 'Goth'. It wasn't until I had kids that I said "Fuck it! I'm gonna wear ware my clothes and make-up the way I like!" But then another bump in the road happened - all of these 'types'. Now, my look is *very* laid back still from just re-entering, and I started to doubt myself again. I like Victory Rolls and cats eyes with red lips, so that falls into one 'subtype', but I layer long flowy dresses and skirts with layers and *gasp* color, so that's another subtype and a lot of other different stylistic teases - either dress or music or what I read/watch. I have long hair, but I don't dye it black; I have actual colors in my wardrobe and don't spend $300 for an outfit, this or that didn't make me 'goth enough' and I was feeling that 'I don't fit anywhere' feeling again. Then I realized *again*, fuck it! It's just one part of the whole that is me. It's stupid; like saying that "you have kids, so you can ONLY be a mom' or 'you're married, so you ONLY be a wife'. So, yes, I'm Goth. I'm also a nerdy, religious, pop culture savvy, sarcastic, Irish language student, musical loving weird-o - and I can still be Goth! This channel helps me keep that in mind. Thank you for that
I also was goth in the 90s. I never once classified myself, rather embraced my love of music and expressing myself as I felt. Still love my black cat collar 😜😜
Thanks for reposting this video, I feel that what you say needs saying and, together with many of the comments below, I find it's really encouraging! Personally, since childhood, I've always had a strong sense of what I've wanted to wear, fortunately both my parents are artistic/creative people, and although their personal style is more understated, they've always been into people expressing their individuality with their style choices, and being 'alternative' (thinking for oneself). So since very early childhood I was always encouraged by them, and other alternative people, to choose for myself and go for it! and not to care what others think - I suppose I was fortunate to be brought up to know it's how I treat others that truly counts... Anyhow much love and respect to you Angela👍💎💞 And also to all you awesome individuals out there - please keep being inspirational the world needs you!
I'm a baby bat and so happy with this video. While the names of all those gave me some examples and direction that made me inspired, I was also wondering and even stressing about what to call myself. Intuitively I just wanted to call myself 'goth' and am so glad to have found this
Thanks for revamping and uploading your earlier content(not that it wasn't impeccable in the first place)! Have you thought of setting up a merch shop for this channel or collabing with a fashion company in the future ? Would love to support your work here on YT! xoxo👽
Goth is goth no matter what label you put on before it. You want to add a dash of dark purples or even pinks? Go for it. You want to try different accessories with your usual look? Do you. Want to wear a harness instead of a corset? Short shirt over long and flowing? White wig instead of black? Send me pictures but goth is still goth
"It's called individuality, not a subculture" Absolutely!! Thank you sooo much for saying this! Was going to say myself: Goth is expressing yourself individually. Not conforming to society... Therefore putting everyone in a box and even claiming they aren't Goth enough or.. *gasp* a Poser... Is very damaging indeed. Because they can't even be themselves through something thar was MEANT to take something and put your own spin on it. To be individual. To express your different darkness from even another Goth. To be completely honest, I've thought of Goth (This year I came to this realization), as individual as Sugar Skulls. They may inspire each other to flourish, but no two are alike.. It's actually disrespectful to copy someone else because it is Artist and personally symbolic. But there are certain features that make it "A Sugar Skull/Makeup" I feel like Goth was meant to be like that in it's own senses. I hope this makes sense and doesn't come off insulting as it's meant exactly the opposite. Thank you so much for this video! 🖤🦇
I've been asked where I get my aesthetic from and I'm just kinda like... Meh I just go with whatever I feel like wearing on whatever day. I don't have any specific aesthetic or subgenre and I love your view on the topic.
I used to think that I had to pick a style of clothing in order to be considered goth and "fit in" (even recently, I had trouble choosing because I like all styles), but watching this video has enlightened me so much. The way you put it just makes me feel so much more at ease about what I wear as a goth.
I'm so happy to hear that! Part of the subculture is self expression and if you're confined to a particular style because of some rule that someone made up, then you're expressing someone else. Thanks for your message
That's such a great way of putting it and I prefer not to be like what someone else thinks I should be (I've been avoiding this my whole life!), I want to be who I want to be. And you're welcome! Thank you for making this video, you just got a new subscriber! ^_^
thankyou so much for putting this out there. i get called a fake goth all the time because im able to afford goth clothing brands. im told since i didn't put thought in to it or make it myself im all of a sudden not allowed to be goth. an on top of all the i get told ALL THE TIME "goth is just the music its not fashion'' but obviously it is a fashion i hate people cant see that when it is right in front of them its 2019 its not just about the music anymore. also the fact that people have to shove themselves in a box just to make sure they have a place in the community sucks so much because i love elements from all "subs" of goth. there are so many goths out there that hate being picked on by "normys" but then they want to criticize the hell out of the people who want to be apart of the community that wants to be accepted for who they are and what they like. but i guess theirs just no room for new concepts.
I totally agree with you, I want to mix all the different clothing styles, because I fins them cool, and beautiful and I can't not and wont just pick one. Thank you for making this video and speaking out. I'm 100% on your side and will stand up for you and this belief.
Hello,Angela.I agree that Goth should be united.I love the message that this video has!💗 PS.When is your birthday?. Thanks for expressing your opinion.😘
Thank you. I'm a goth from the 90's and you got it on the head. It was the music. And we were all the same. Everyone was an individual and we were all banded together.
I needed this. I'm so grateful I watched this. I've had a hard time with my "identity" in the alternative subcultures. I wear and enjoy much of the goth scene but am criticized because im not "consistent" i dress androgynous, a little punk, full on romantic, nu, or trad, and some sort of hodge-podge of it all that i dont know how to define. its my style but i dont know what it is. thank you for saying i dont need to know what it is. im goth with punk tendencies. i can be me, be both , and be ok with it. love you!
My interpretation of goth or more to the point what being goth is to me atleast has always been about freedom. Freedom to choose, freedom to express and freedom to be who you are. I’m a baby bat, but I’ve been a baby bat for a long time (living in a rural town with no people in the subculture around me, has been hard. I’ve had to do it on my own which I’m fine with; but the small town mindset is hard to combat against when you’re trying to be yourself.. different from everyone else.) but watching videos like this, when I’m starting to branch out and try it fully now, is a great help. It’s so confusing; all the different sub genres, it’s hard especially when it’s made out you’re not a proper goth until you choose. So I thank you, this was something I really needed to hear x
I’m a 2000’s goth and I also like metal music. So in my local scene we all mixed together I’m including punks, emo kids and skater kids as well all in one place. My look swaps between goth and metal depending on how I’m feeling or what I’m doing for the day I find it keeps me more happy like this and I see nothing wrong with mixing up the styles but it’s been drummed into us to know the difference in theses styles. Love your videos keep it up
Your absolutely right. Thanks for clearing up this mess for me, classifying a subculture based on fashion is limiting and ridiculous. It also doesn’t allow people to connect genuinely based on their music style and interests but makes it more fake and about appearance solely. Gross!
Great video! Baby Bat in the 90's now living in a small Canadian city with no scene and I admit it's been a loss. I've seen the same transition over time through the web, and I'm glad to start finding small gems of the culture again. Thanks a bunch. Cheers!
I just found your channel and omg thank you, you beautiful lady! I myself have been sort of in and out of the whole Goth scene as well as punk rock and things like that and now I'm sort of a mix of a bunch of stuff but I always felt bad because whenever I would talk to other Goths about fashion or anything they would call me fake and say I didn't even know what Goth was or that i was stupid. I always just thought fashion was expressing what you like and being yourself, I agree with you completely 👍🏻😊
I don't know where people get off being so rude to others and appointing themselves lordship of the subculture. It's all about your journey and your discovery of the subculture. The fashion, literature, the history, the music and just finding who you are. It's not for anyone else to tell you who you are or police the pace in which you do so. Screw em ;P
Hi, Angela I'm new to your videos, and I'm about 2 or 3 years older than you from NJ so I floated between NYC and Philly scenes. I love your videos it gives me that fun nostalgic feeling of a point and life that is near and dear to my heart. While I dont live the fashion full time anymore my heart is still goth, and the one thing I notice from your videos, the comments, etc. Is that people just dont get it. They're trying to define Goth to be one thing or one way. That's really heartbreaking because at the core I always felt you're supposed to have fun and not take anything too seriously. Again thank you for the videos they're a lot of fun, and my daughter is obsessed with how you look.
I watched a whole bunch of your videos and I have to say you helped me a lot. at times when I was younger and even these days when I don't feel ''goth enough'' I always remember what you have to say in your videos.
You are 100% right Angela! dress however you want!!! Goth is about unity pls stop shaming stop shaming people and let people do what they want and long as it is NOT harming anybody!!! ( BTW I am Baby bat VERY KNEW one too and I just turned 13 any tips for PG outfits for me that are very inexpensive or that I can DIY myself and also tips to convince my parents to let me be goth are VERY much appreciated!!!)
I'm so happy to hear that. The whole subgenre thing was created as a joke via cartoon characters of types of goths more than 10 years ago now and new goths came across them and took it seriously. It's now completely out of control.
That makes sense. I definitely like elements from all different styles of goth when it comes to fashion. I've always been into dark literature and have started exploring some integral goth bands. I just thought of this, though he's one of my favorite artists and was always very dark, but would you say Jim Morrison was goth?
I used to get and still get told "you aren't goth, you don't dress like a real goth" and till this day all I can say to poeople like that is "sorry not sorry, I happen to like lavender, and baby blue and pink, just as much as I like my mohawk, and my stompy boots." If I wanna wear romantic one day and pastel the next, I will if I want, and it doesn't make me any less "goth". I agree with you goth is goth.
Your video's are incredibly inspiring, being a punk\goth in a small town has been tough, theres no scene here. but your videos have inspired me to get into a bigger city to experience the scene, i just cant waste more time wishing there was one here
Can I just say I love what you have to say about this whole topic and I fully agree. I couldn't have said it better and will happily reference to you and this video in future discussions :) I myself am the same, I don't choose a 'subgenre', I just go with what I feel like from day to day and party to party. Sometimes I felt inadequate for it because people all over the place start to think in those boxes and perpetuate the idea that you need to choose one 'subgenre' (and god forbid it's not 'batcave', 'deathrock' or 'trad' because all the new styles are invalid to begin with for them). Your video is very reassuring and I hope a lot of baby bats as well as people that have been in the scene longer than that feel the same about it. Cheers and greetings!
You go girl!! I grew up in a town where kids were afraid they weren't goth enough and would beat themselves up if they were caught wearing anything other than full romantic style clothing. It was awful. People had jobs and we're afraid of being seen in a uniform. Ridiculous. I was working in a bar and was asked to tone down my make up as it was believed to upset customers, so I did in the daytime but at night my boss allowed heavier makeup. I notice that today, it's not like it used to be. Back in the day you could go anywhere and if you met a goth whom you had never met before, there was a unspoken code of acceptance whereas now, you are almost shunned if you don't fit a certain style. So sad x
I agree with you a lot. When I first got into goth when I was 12 in 2011, I loved everything from the music, fashion, literature etc. I wasn't allowed to wear the fashion because my family is not accepting at all and really discouraged me. Now that I'm 18 and an adult, I informed them that i should be allowed to wear what I choose. They agreed. They still tell me how much they hate it but now they can't force me to change my outfit or wipe off my make up like they used to. So when I started shopping around for clothes I found it very confusing and overwhelming because of all the labels. I had to take a step back and learn to ignore them. I dress in want ever I like. I'm not romantic or punk or Nu. I'm just goth.
I just found your videos and I have to say they're lovely. As someone who's just testing the waters of the subculture but not yet sure about it all, its a bit comforting to know that not every goth believes that you have to 'chose a sub-genre'. Choosing a sub-genre was a genuine worry of mine, despite how silly it sounds. It was a big question of "Where do I fit in? What if I don't fit in? Do I just abandon the subculture all together?" Though I'm still tossing it all around in my head, I'm very grateful for this message. Even for those who aren't goth, I think you're message is wonderful. Don't worry about forcing yourself to fit into a predetermined mold because it really doesn't matter anyway.
Ive only been in the goth subculture for 3 years and learning my way around. My personal style is all over the place. This helped me become more comfortable in the fact that I dont have to wear a singular style of gothic clothes. Thank you so much for making this.
I absolutely agree with and love everything you a saying. Goth is goth. What more is there to it than that? Individuality with your look may happen, but that doesn’t throw anyone into a new & separate category. Rock your look in whatever way you want, but you’re still just....goth! And it’s beautiful as long as you’re not forming a clique in a specific look.
I definitely agree with this. Many people are trying to classify themselves and trying to get unique titles rather than just being themselves. I would much rather just be myself than try to classify and change myself to fit a title.
I really like this video. Being at 90s goth myself I’ve always listen to music that I found to be “dark” regardless of it’s genre, as far as the clothing that I wore it was always handmade with my own artistic expression, I still do this to this day I had many people ask me what group type of Goth I belong to, it’s not about what you wear and what you listen to it’s your mindset and I’m really glad you pointed that out this video, thank you
Tricked ya, mwahaha :P I'm happy you like it. This subgenre stuff is ridiculous. Great way to categorize fashion when you're searching for it online but definitely not applicable to people. We're goth's, that's all.
I'm really glad this has been said. I'm new to this channel and have been on the scene for 15 years. I've always had at least 3-5 different "types" of goth in my repertoire but as a whole I'll do combinations of style that suit me best. I like the victorian vampire styles and the more modern vampire styles with hints of demonic flare. I don't find many with my combo but that's ok. As long as you are respectful of people's right to express themselves it doesn't matter what category you do or don't fit into. Goth is goth. Always has been and always will be.
As somebody wanting to design clothing for people. This is a valuable perspective. Thank you for your video!! I'm done with everyone trying to tear eachother apart! Celebrate individuality 🖤
Just found your channel and the title really caught my eye. This is a subject that I've talk at length about with my friends and I agree that the whole sub-genre thing needs to die. Out of all of the goths that I know, I don't know of a single one that would fit 100% into any one sub-genre. It's far too fun to mix and match and make you're own style. Granted if someone really like one particular style then that's totally cool too. You do you. I guess what I'm getting at is: once were all see these as styles and not sub-genres, the community as a whole will be better for it.
I wonder why I did not subscribe to your channel before ... you're fantastic! And not only for your personality, but for the way you see our subculture, your way of loving it, respecting it and defending it. Here you have a faithful subscriber more, watching your videos I am proud to belong to a world so culturally rich, thanks for making goth subculture shine with more intensity, the goth community needs more people like you.
Ive connect to my goth side since i was young to me your a goth or not. As long as you understand that we as goth should not give up on life. We all have something we need to discover and wounds to heal. Ive seen people shame goths by saying their the same as emos because we both wear black. I wear black because i feel the pain of people and try to understand how to help. We wear a mask that we use that we hide our true face. At the end of the day we need to accept each other and try to help not hurt. I like you video.
Hi Angela, like yourself I was around in the early 90's and I eased into goth via other alternative styles. I don't know if it was like this in NYC, but in my neck of the woods, and for a long time, it was all just alternative. Yes, there were distinctions like goth, industrial, new wave, metal, grunge, and the more general alternative music, and people chose their camp, mostly through fashion, but the grunge would dance to Sisters and the goths would dance to Skinny Puppy and so on. We all just gathered around the generic alternative umbrella. Throughout the years, I've gone from your generic goth to more fetish-influenced, to more romantic and so on, but it's all been mainly as a form of dress than anything else, and it's only in the early 2000's that thing really started to branch out fashion-wise with a decline of the traditional/romantic look in favor of cyber goth, but again, despite what anyone wears on any given night, it doesn't mean we stop liking a wide variety of music, so I'm very much like-minded as you in this regard. I hate being pigeon-holed by people and that liberty is one of the main things that got me interested in the scene in the first place. So while there are some styles that seem to come with certain music (cyber for EBM/industrial or trad for... well, trad), at the end of the day, we're all part of the same family and this is one of our choosing so enough with the sub-sub categories already. BTW, I just got my goths for Sophie calendar today... good on you for doing it! XOXO
100%. People should wear what they like, no matter what the label says. "Yourself" is the best label around.
Agreed!
Yep true
I know i know
Im a goth that usually dont like when ppl say im i goth or just tell me goth in MY FACE
I just say im being myself cuz its true
True
I agree
i know i’m WAY late to the convo. i just wanted to thank you & say ‘yourself is the best label around’ is such a beautiful statement. 🖤✨
Goth is goth, as long as you understand the concept and history of it, if you feel you are part of it then be yourself and be creative, if you like skulls but also like Popsicles heck make a necklace out of skulls and popsicle charms. Though it is fun to kind of use labels, people shouldn't get too attached to it. Be free
100% what i think
Rin T You are so right!
I completely agree with you on this, while I occasionally explain myself using stylist phrases eg trad I think it doesn't really matter what type of clothing people wear or if they don't have the stereotypical mindset of an goth. if someone is into the Goth or Gothic lifestyle them they should be able to express that in whatever way they see fit.
I agree with everything you said but the history part, that's like saying you're American only if you know the history behind it, most Americans don't know their own history. Which is why they don't learn from their mistakes, but that's a different topic.
american is something youre born with, goth is something you become. its a conscious choice to take on the label of goth and it shouldnt be something thrown around imo..thats how we get edgy 12 year olds calling themselves goth and ruining the image of the subculture.
i cant pick a type i dont want to be stuck in one style forever
If you like, looks good, never mind a label. The key is have fun with it. No need to go with a single look.
Probably a neutral goth, they incorporate lots of different styles of goth into their clothing choices.
Same here fellow vamps
it's not permanent.
Goth is on the inside...It doesn't live in Blackcraft, Killstar, Hot Topic, or any other dark fashion or dark-art related retail organization... That's all just "icing on the cake"...It's about creativity and expression, and everyone's different in their approach on that...
I remember, back in the early/mid 00's, if you didn't have Demonias or New Rocks you were "not a real goth" or a poser, which I've always found very stupid and kinda classist, since they're too expensive, especially compared to their poor quality.
I personally always preferred going out in the random shops we had available to find the "right" clothes and accessories, or even make my own. I find it more personal than just buying a big brand set of clothes/acc etc.
Not saying it's not "real goth" or even lazy, I still own a couple of old Emily The Strange pieces, it's just a matter of personal expression to me, to find something not targetted as goth but making it as such.
Does it make sense? Idk, I feel old tho :')
It's about the music
@@DEATHBYFLYINGCDS The music is just one segment.Goth has always been the culture, the history, the ideology, the creativity, the spiritual connection to the other side.
@@jaqenhghar4602 except no it hasn't. Before the music, there was nothing, without the music it is nothing. It is a music based subculture. The culture is music based, history is of the music, there is no ideology other than fuck nazis everything else is up to the individual, the creativity is in the music, every other creative venture goths get into is not exclusive to goth...
and the spiritual connection? DEFINITELY NOT, I'm a Catholic myself, there are athiests, satanists, wiccans, pagans, Muslims, etc. There is NO GOTH SPIRITUAL ASPECT. Believe or don't believe anything you want as long as you don't hurt other people with it
@@DEATHBYFLYINGCDS -most modern Goth, yes I would agree. But the origins go far deeper than the music of modern day. I was eluding to the the style of the art and the literature of Medieval times as well as Edwardian and Victorian inspired art. All of which have showcased the the darker side of the human experiences with emotions of sadness, death, dissatisfaction, the imagination of things of forbidden and the supernatural. All of which preceded the music of the modern era.
Maybe this has happened because goth has become more of consumer culture? I'm almost 40 so I remember when it was rare to have a goth shop and you really had to make or thrift your own stuff, which required creativity and just being open to trying different things, and maybe even different items from different decades. Anyway, great video!
Ivy Vanian completely agree. A lot of the more "popular" goths on the internet are constantly on social media and flaunt their status by showing off the things they own ala look books, hauls, and makeup tutorials. I'm all for seeing what cool new spooky inclined things I can get from monthly subscription boxes, but everything else posted has no substance, no soul. I want to see that but I ALSO want to see discussion, speedpaints or speeddrawing, hell I'd watch someone reading a gothic novel out loud for 30 minutes. Everything is turning into a big dick contest, goth on the internet is literally selling out.
I'm closing in on 50. It was all thrift store and DIY.
Leeleekins McGee exactly. They are just commercials and bragging rights, rather than being creative and exploring the subculture (art, music, etc). Seems like most goths have lost that connection to their punk rock DIY roots and that's a damn shame.
I´m in my early 20s and for me it´s still all DIY and thrifting...I´m a custom tailor so of course my stuff looks quite professional, but even if I wasn´t able to sew that well I would prefer the DIY way. I just don´t like the clothes the goth brands sell, except for a few things and shoes anyway. :D
Ivy Vanian that so tru I'm 35 thrift stores was my lifeline
One of my biggest pet peeves within the culture right now is that people are referring to PEOPLE as "subgenres". Music has genres and subgenres, but PEOPLE don't come in "genres". They're all just people. So if someone is a goth, they're a goth, and that's it. They can listen to whatever genres or subgenres of goth music they like, but they do not become that subgenre of music themselves. I never hear anyone asking a metalhead or punk what "subgenre" of metal or punk they are, so why the hell are goths doing it?! That shit makes no sense lol I swear, it's like everyone decided to collectively forget about the word "style". Trad, pastel, nu-goth, corporate, etc. are fashion STYLES, not genres!! And no one should be made to feel like what they listen to needs to be dictated by their aesthetic of choice, or vice versa. I absolutely agree with you. In an already struggling subculture, the last thing we should be doing is telling newcomers that they need to pick a favorite subgenre within the spectrum of goth music, then follow the corresponding dress code for their identity to be considered legitimate. It's too much! And we wonder why the scene's become so damn stagnant. A music genre is not a fashion style, people! Ugh, sorry for the long rant, but this has just been driving me crazy since it started happening lol
BleedTheWineUnholy I think the terminology is just misplaced. “Subsets” or “subcategories” would be more accurate than the “genre” name. Still astute observations!
So much this^^!!
When i first realised i liked the gothic style, i was very confused. I was so conflicted because i thought I had to choose between the different goth styles, and i didn't want to. After finding your channel I realised I could just be me and wear the clothes that I liked, no matter "what kind of goth" they were considered. Over the last few years I've been able to express myself more and more, and I feel more like myself every day. Thank you for being so awesome, Angela!
Maja Myrvold You shouldn't need someone else's validation, to be yourself. You should have done what you wanted to begin with. That is what makes the world diverse. Who cares what others think. It's your life.
I just had to go Google Health Goth. I am too old to keep up with all these new labels and sub genres. lol Things used to be so much simpler. I don't remember ever believing I had to choose a specific style and stick to it. I never felt I had to only listen to , watch and wear things that could be considered goth . I have no idea why younger people feel such pressure to impress elitists. I don't understand. Why would anyone limit their self expression? Stifle who they really are? So strange.
I really just tease my mom with the label "Health goth" since she was a goth but also a hippie at the same time as I grew up (and now). It upset me when people would give her strange looks for being so into the environment while also into wonderful music. I completely agree since no one should feel like they can't enjoy more than one thing when she loved so many. Being a stage fighter, she also really loved the romantic and Renaissance dress since she wore them often, people should be able to enjoy so many things in their life. If you spent all your life never trying new clothes or activities, it would get boring, no?
CrimsonCatacombs I'm 15 years old and I personally feel that pressure by my friends. It's basically "If you don't listen to those bands / music of this type *only*, you're not _______ (enough)!" 1 year ago, I was punk, but because of that pressure I really felt like I was "a fake" or "not punk enough". And I quit. I'm really glad people like Angela Benedict exist
CrimsonCatacombs ikr
it's getting annoying really, all the judgement in a counter culture that was originally all about not being judged for who you are.
I don't label and like most types of music and dress all types of styles. Depends on mood. May be goth, punk, steampunk, trendy, girly, comfy when hone all day and something that can't be described. Grew up in the 80s, so it was punk and really never heard the word goth then. My weekend look. Had to clean up for work.
I'm so with you on this. I've dabbled with nearly every goth style, but I'm just me!
Emily Rachel Gilley and you are great
Emily Rachel Gilley i thought you said dabbed lol
I felt alone for a while because of this. I always though that if i didn't belong to a certain goth group i wan't goth. I also spent way to much time looking ofr goths that are like me or at least similar.
I'm with you on this.
My name is j want to become a Catholic person
Something that keeps me thinking about the Goths or grunge style is that most of the people are extra pale, white caucasian. It's like to see more brown skinned people, Olive or dark. sometimes Brown skinned people try gothic style but they get banned by other people by saying "that style is not for you cause You aren't pale". What do you think about that? Even if You feel goth and You understand it can You be one if You aren't extra pale? I'm olive tan skin and i got those kind of comments Everytime, although i do not dress totally goth but my interests and stuff and art style is...
Sale Vale me too. It’s hard to find people of my race on RUclips. Not that white goth RUclipsrs aren’t awesome. It’s just that certain hair or makeup tutorials and things I can’t follow along because I have an Afro. I know it’s not something I have to do, but it hurts to be like oooo that looks good on her but you can’t do it yourself. And the few that I did find stop doing RUclips because of the hate that they get (or other reasons). Not complaining but it would be nice to have someone who looks like me. I hope this doesn’t come of racist or anything and sorry for going on a small essay on your comment lol.
They're not worth your time the snobs. Do your own thing. You don't have to look like a ghost or have the same hair as some do. Being light olive and darker in the summer, I go with natural skin and don't dye my hair black. Get creative and have fun. There's always someone that will be a jerk if you're not a clone of them. You'll get looks, but I do too as a lone wolf with being older and no Goths around here or clubs. The older you get, the less you care about what others think. I get a kick out of it. Been around since the 80s and it's still in my system. My boyfriend loves when I do it up. Lol I try to sneak some lite gothish stuff when shopping for him. He's in training like I had to do with my husband slyly with his awful clothes his mother got him at thrift shops. The 60s and 70s are over dude. Lol Was,widowed after 22 years but 5 years later met my boyfriend. Not dead yet at 54 but can pass for younger. My mom did too.
I don't get why people would care about that. Goth is big in Mexico, for example. Any skin tone is fine. I would like to believe that this culture is smart enough to reject racism.
You‘re definitely not goth if u think someone isn't "pale enough" for this style. This is straight up bullshit!! U don’t need to be white to be goth, it’s about anything else but skin color or race!!
In the Dallas, TX area, our scene is made of of mostly hispanics and asians. We whites are in the minority.
PREACH IT!!!!!
LOUDER
FOR
THE
PEOPLE
IN
THE
BACK
I have played the "what kind of Goth are you?" Games.... I get a different one every time!!!!!!!!!!!! 😝
Maria Garibay You are a goth rainbow.
Just be yourself. No quiz can define you. Let your self expression soar without limitations. 🤗
A gothic rainbow is different shades o' grey
Bravo Angela. I wholeheartedly agree. Some days I feel more chains and spikes. Others, cloaks and velvet. Sometimes I'll even combine them into a strange hybrid. It is what it is. The obsession to add in subgenres on a subculture is ridiculous to me.
When goth started in the late 70's, early 80's they didn't even have goth as a term. But you knew them regardless. Why should that change?
Adam StormCrow I think being too rigid and "in the box" in the goth subculture is missing the point of being goth.
Alana Robertson Absolutely. There was a time when labels were to be avoided like the plague.
Adam StormCrow i agree , the problem isnt about age or a new generation , its about a way of thinking where some people Always think they can change something to suit them, this is complete bullshit. I say dont try to change it , go find another sub culture , dont destroy something to fit you taste , Most of these kids are lost when it comes to good taste and style anyway. Stick to your AUTO TUNE POP CRAP and your cartoon style fashion, or be true to the roots of the real goth culture , PERIOD.
Wow, lol. I thought that Goth was at least partially about non-conformity. Now you have to "pick your type". Granted I posted this before actually letting the video play...But ok, lets let this roll and see if I can find a place to fit in.
Actually...I loved this video and its message!!!! Subscribed!
I'm 43, and all my life I"ve been an unapologetic rocker girl/goth. I've enjoyed rocker/goth music since I was in High School.
If you open my closet right now you will see a sea of black and jeans galore.
I have them because they are ME. And I feel wonderful, confident and beautiful when I wear them.
I've never been too keen om labels...but I would love to know how I would be classified. C'mon everyone, give me your worst!!
a completely made up and meant as a joke label: Big hair-Peggy-Bundy- Goth
Health goth??!! now that is a new one to me! The silly subgenres are multiplying! I think I will have to make up my very own subgenre and I will be the sole member of it.
"Middle-aged crafty glitter darkcore* who likes a lot of non goth stuff too."
Is that too long to be a subgenre? Oh well. if you can't remember the whole label, you just aren't committed enough.
p.s. I will also forget the label in a few hours. because labels are silly.
* darkcore is my own invention which is normcore+darkly inclined. AKA just normal clothes that are mostly black.
lestrange love this comment
Careful now i think your sub genera is about to break into dark goth and core goth. Sub sub genera
I consider myself to be "lazy-goth". I just wear a black top and pants with dark makeup and jewelry. I've never even dyed my hair. I focus on the music, literature, movies, etc...
You're a real goth.
I prefer the term *"comfy goth"*
I am 46 and gave up on sub genres a long, long time ago. I don't class myself as anything other than alternative. I was introduced to punk in the 70's through my older brother. I still love music from the 70's and 80's from post punk/new wave to new romantic to goth. I have never had an interest in clothes though. I am much more into music. It was much more mix and match back in the day, especially for girls, regarding clothes. Most boys were in chelsea boots, creepers or DM's, tight jeans, t shirt's, shirts or baggy jumpers and either biker jackets, army coats/jackets, crombies or suit/bowie jackets. That's still my "uniform" to this day. There were so many talented individuals back in the day that could achieve fantastic alternative outfits from mainstream shops/clothing and accessories. Now there are so many specialist shops/traders it's a lot easier, if more expensive, to achieve the look you are after. It must be so confusing for younger people new to the scene. It does not help with social media folk regularly calling people out for "doing it wrong". I always enjoy your videos and applaud your stance on elitist types. Sub genres only make this kind of thing worse in my opinion and it's something we could all do without.
Craig Welsh You sound like my mom! She just hit 50 and is still who she was back in her "punker" days. Even my mom has days when she just sorta "fits in with society", damn being an adult with a job! Lol! I was raised with a love of classic punk and goth music along with newer goth music (Manson and NIN). My mom never labeled my goth so I never did but my 14 year old labels her goth. It's all too confusing for us now!
Cassandra Darby Sounds like you have a cool family. Whether you call yourself or think of yourself as a Goth or whatever, doesn't really matter in the end. Dress how you want to dress. Be who you want to be. That is all that matters. x
I like all the different clothes. I use these sub genre names to look up clothes I like and styles I want to emulate, however I own like an article of clothing from each different style. Hell today my outfit looks like a goth anime idol. These people might not think I look like a goth, but to hell with them.
This! This is how ive always been as well :)
GOTH is GOTH no doubt when I growing up my style stared to change dramatically in if I remember a guy walked up to me I was in the 8th grade back in 2000 and he was with some friends he said "awwwe look at the baby bat" me not knowing anything about the subculture I'm like what? because I didn't see a picture and go "I wanna be that" my style just grew darker he explained to me what the term meant and all I was coolio OK them he goes " well what are you?" and me not knowing what he meant I gave him a dumbfounded face he says you have to pick and started listening things showing me pictures even went as far as sneaking me into a club he was if I remember 17 so him himself wasn't supposed to be there I'm looking around and come across so many different kinds of looks and I go home so I start making my own things I was a pro with a needle still am and a couple of days later I see him again he tells me I look like a mash of it all and he didn't like it. as him being my only friend I wanted to make him proud of me so I chose one look which was the look that was all the rage which was what they called "cyber" I loved it a lot I kept the look for over four years through highschool and one day I went what am I doing I pulled out what I had made four years back and slipped it on it magically still fit I looked at myself and went "this is me I'm a mash of everything" and I'm still that way if you conform to something its still conforming the idea is not conforming like what you like
Be you. Wear whatever style your little 🖤 desires, listen to the music you love. It makes no difference what others say, it only matters that you do what makes you happy.
I've been goth since the 80's, (yes older goth here) but honestly I don't label others on how they dress or music they like, Goth is what you are in your heart. Stay Dark, everyone.
Definitely in agreement on this one. You're Goth, or you're not. We're not in the military, where fights can break out between Army and Air Force. We're not wearing uniforms; we're wearing cool clothes.
This makes me feel a lot better. I'm a baby bat and I always feel the need to categorize myself as in a subgenre because that what Instagram or the internet says. I really like the idea and message of this video that subgenres and fitting into millions of catagories doesn't matter, it's just goth.
I'm happy this video helped you. It sounds silly when you think about it. You need to pick a style in order to listen to the music you want and associate with the subculture? Give no credence to the gothic police, they're here for themselves.
I completely support and agree with you here. I was drawing girls with vampiric clothes and dark lips when I was 9, I first started turning Goth myself when I was 14, and by the time I was a sophomore in high school, I was full on into it and it's just stuck.
Now I'm 22 and still doing it!
There was a time when I myself was a baby bat and people telling me that I was a false Goth really used to bother me. One guy even said that "you aren't Goth if you call yourself Goth" - yes, it was very stupid. I therefore tried to conform to expectations, and in the end, I found doing so very stifling and miserable (and that's NOT Goth). I'm a very independent person by nature, so this stage didn't last very long and I broke free.
I have since become more confident and mature, and I don't care what elitists think; they're missing the whole point behind Goth anyway, so I actually think they are the true fakes.
They just take their own insecurities about themselves out on other people like any bullies do.
Personally, I think it's absolutely true that there are different styles of Goth - but it's STILL Goth!
I personally have alternated between elegant and romantic Goth with the vintage chokers and Goth with spiked bracelets and chains at the hips!
And sometimes, I just wear T shirts!
Limiting yourself to just one style under pressure from these people is like only wearing the newest brand name, designer clothes for all the mean girls to seem cool.
Honestly, no matter what the label, just do you. 💜 Wear what you want!
Great theory Angela ( UnityGoth ) it's whats inside your views and interests that make's a person goth. Your so right drop all the tags and just join together. I like to think it's better to see some goth than no goth at all. With the lack of goth clubs and people hanging in parks like in the past the internet has made more separation than unity. I remember when a goth was just glad to see another goth and was thankful but now it's overkill on a plate and a jumble people don't have to find bands , clubs or clothes it's all on one plate to much of everything. Your so right everyone just join up no matter the sub tag i like your thinking.
I can't help it but your comment made me smile. I think I am old school. I am glad when I see people who dress Goth (regardless of style) offline. It feels like running into someone from my own tribe even when I am not dressed up as one all the time (toddler and Texan heat and I wear whatever I feel like).
I have see the video but I appreciate that your reuploading for those new to the channel. This actually one of my favorite videos you've made.
This video is amazing! I have never heard of Health Goth before lol and barely 20 yet! Your videos have made me find more about myself within the Goth scene thank you so much❤😊
Krystal-Marie G I'm old enough to be your mother and what is a health Goth? I go to a gym but doesn't mean a thing. Still stand out in black tennis shoes, black leggings and especially the shirts. Lots of black cat ones. Still stick with fake tattoos. Can switch them out at will. Guess I'm a cat goth. Hehe Found a lot of goth cat leggings on eBay. Didn't realize on pair had pentagrams and anothers crosses on cats foreheads. Bought by phone and hard to see small details. Lol. Got a lot of cat themed goth stuff from Spiral Direct and Victorian skirts is which I'm starting to like more for that look which suits my age. Hard to do on a budget. Sale! Get it now. Lol. People love the black cat studded purse I have. At least 50 compliments on it. Got a new one, cat goth. Next dog goths. Then chicken and horse goths.😄🤣😅😂 we can make up more Goths than SJW genders. Got a good start from really just one that was a mish mash of a similar look.
This video deserves so much more views!! I watch a lot of goth youtubers and you are the only one who speaks clear and consistently. You are such an inspiration to me. I live in a country where the whole alternative scene is one massive elitist shit, not only goths, everyone here is calling each other "poser" constantly, so it gets really difficult to find someone who wants to share their knowledge and experience with the kindness and patience that you do it. I've considered myself goth for 10 years now but i never had the chance to have one single gratifying experience within the subculture. So thank you again for making this kind of videos, you have no idea of how much you are helping me. Love from Argentina♥ sorry is my english is not too good :(
That's awful. It sounds like a few people in Argentina need a serious lesson in not only the history of goth but how to treat people. Behaving that way will only get them so far because the bonds they make will be insincere and they'll find themselves alone and wondering why.
That is totally what happens.. It's SO sad :(
lol, I love the end of the video. sounds like something I would say. when I was young and starting out on becoming goth, I really liked the "trad goth" look (still do) except I called it "old school goth" ' cause I didn't know what it was really called or any other additional label. I thought goth was just goth. that's it.
That's what we called it too when we were younger! Old School, Classic or Punky goth. Leaning toward particular styles is so common but somehow some wires got crossed and these terms are now applied to people as opposed to clothes.
Angela Benedict hi:) this is totally unrelated but how do you keep your hair looking so healthy ??
I fullheartedly agree with you.
I avoided social networks for 5 years and came back to pastel goths, nu goths, trad goths...
It feels weird and unfitting. I mean they shall all do whatever makes them happy, but I feel too old for that 😅 that box thinking was what brought me away from the "normal" society and now Goth seems to be turning into exactly that. Too bad :/
Also this post isn't supposed to be an elitist crying over the old days... I do think change is necessary in life. But keeping values also is. At least to me and people I know. Greetings from the Super Goth Capital Leipzig ;)
Thank you for your comment! It's weird to see all of these boxes and I agree, goth was a departure from that cookie cutter life and now we have our own cookie cutters. I don't think you sound like an elitist crying over the old days - Sometimes people lose their way or get here after the shit has already hit the fan and it takes someone whose seen it and lived it to fill in the blanks.
Angela Benedict Leipzig isn't what it used to be either, but it is well worth the visit:) plane tickets get cheaper and cheaper fortunately 😉
It used to be a joke among my friends that you’d loose goth points or have your goth card taken away if you didn’t (fill in the blank with whatever ridiculous bs was going around at the time).
Screw them all, listen to what you want, wear what you want. Life is short. Do what makes you happy.
Goth genres? What ever happened to just "Goth"? Times sure have changed since I was in that scene. Yes...it's a scene young ones. You may or may not grow out of it. Just be yourself.
Goth metal
I always have felt that I can't classify myself as Goth because I don't fit into a certain subculture of goth (nu, pastel, romantic) and because I like rainbows, TMNT, and my music taste ranges from pop, rock, country, hip-hop and even some rap. I feel like if I classify myself as goth I will be facing the Inquisition, being questioned on all my knowledge of goth when in reality I just LOVE and feel confident and comfortable in black, bones, bats and cats. I have always been a nonconforming person, I have just naturally loved to wear funky outfits that used to not go together very well but over the years looked good but didn't fit in with the set standard of my urban country upbringing, I don't have a problem with being called a weirdo or creepy but the one culture I feel like I can fit into scares me because of lack of knowledge I don't want to be seen as a poser when I just want to be accepted as myself. A person who loves bats, bones, black, cats, blood spatter (I have a degree in Forensic Science), black roses, but is terrified of horror films and gore, I hate pink but I love purple and some pastel pink is cute (in very limited circumstances). I don't fit into a box at all which makes me happy but also scared because this world is very unforgiving to people who do not fit in.
This is the community I feel like I fit in the most with but I also feel like I would be so out of place if I were to meet up with any other goths because I like to shop at Hot Topic and Spencers but I just keep hearing all of these Goths condemn anyone who shops those places or places like Killstar and Ironfist. I find the fashion cute and some stuff I would wear. I am not here to conform with supposed 'Goth' standards of dressing because that is bull but I guess I am just scared of all the hate I would possibly receive from the people who I would hope would become like family.
You're one of the first people I've ever seen who was Like Me in this sense!
I don't label myself as goth because most of my interests are not goth at all - my favorite musicians are Lady Gaga and Panic! at the Disco, I watch shows like Supernatural and Nikita, and I love drag queens. I don't dislike goth music, but I don't love it enough to be heavily interested in it. I don't know much about goth history because honestly, I have memory issues, and knowing the lyrics to my favorite songs and remembering them is more important to me than when goth became a subculture, or the names of the earliest and most iconic goth clubs.
I LOVE gothic fashion, but I love a lot of other fashions as well. Avant garde? sign me up. Boho? stunning!
Goth fashion (or at least, a toned down version of it) is what I feel the most comfortable in, but I don't really fit into that box perfectly. Which, as you said much better than I could ever hope to, is something that makes me happy, but is also somewhat intimidating because of elitists and people of similar mindsets.
Overall everything you said really resonates with me? I don't want to fit in any set box, but if I had to run with only one crowd, I'd suppose I would choose goth-if it weren't for the elitism.
(I also tend to change my look from one day to the next-one day I'm very grunge, other days I look more emo, somedays I look very punk inspired, or pop-culture inspired- I LOVE reinventing myself from day to day. Because of that I'm afraid that nearly every alternative subculture could label me a poser- which isn't true-I just like expressing myself with fashion)
Just overall deeming oneself as Alternative could be a whole encompassing title to claim seeing as that would touch probably almost every subculture there is. I have joined a few goth group pages on Facebook but I feel like an outsider of sorts. Alternative is probably the best term I could classify myself even though I love Goth fashion and almost always wear mainly black clothing no matter the style of clothing.
Yes, I totally understand the memory problem thing because I have the same problem, and history has never been a subject I have been good at so learning Goth history is not something I would probably remember well.
I don't think expressing yourself with various fashion is wrong, I don't know why people get so bent out of shape over it. I somewhat understand culture appropriation but sometimes it isn't about the culture and it is just about thinking that the outfit is fucking cute.
You do you and don't let anyone tell you you are wrong. If you say you are Goth then you are Goth but you don't have to run with a certain group. Life is too short to worry about stuff like that, live life to the fullest and have fun being yourself without worrying about what people thing or going to say. (I say all of this but I know it is easier said than done as I always have had a slight problem with doing this. So Good luck!)
I'm goth, period, I don't have a "type" and I don't have to have a "type".
I got a lot out of watching this video. If anything, I wish no one would ever attack anyone verbally based on appearance, or anything that pertains to whoever he or she may be.
george ates me too.
I want you to continue to be the amazing person that you are. Have a wonderful day.
As a somewhat babybat (been in the scene for like 7 months) this has been such a helpful video I get so much anxiety choosing labels in regards to what subgenre of goth I am, and to hear that's not necessary is just really relieving. It's okay if I wear pastels sometimes in my outfits it doesn't challenge my label as a goth. Thank you five years late.
THANK YOU for speaking out about this!
My God I feel sorry for these poor girls and guys who are getting so worked up and drawn into this B.S. I grew up in the 90's as well and I can't believe the utter stupidity I see online today.
You were either Goth or not, and even then the Punks and the Metalheads would share styles with them sometimes anyway. We were just the "odd" kids that often felt misunderstood because they didn't follow the mainstream crowd. In the end, it was the music that defined you, but really, for the truly authentic person, it was YOU that defined you.
Really, what all this does is dehumanize people too. You're not an individual, nor even a person. You're a label and a stereotype and nothing more. Oh, and if you want out of your box, you better watch out because here comes the cancel culture squad.
Oh and I loved the little "New York" edit you included at the end. That exactly describes how I feel about this subject, lol.
the fashion subgenres has a lot to do with social media hashtags, because people feel the need to curate their extremely specific aesthetics as part of their online brand. i know "health goth" (sportswear but make it black? lol) specifically exploded on tumblr and instagram, and a lot of people have been using "mall goth" lately as well, referring to the 90s-2000s goth styles you could buy at hot topic. but of course everyone takes their labels far too seriously, and there are endless debates on what is or isn't "really goth" instead of people just enjoying being goth together. it's nearly impossible to find an online space (let alone a physical space) where the conversation isn't dominated by self proclaimed "trad goths" trying to poser check some random kids on tiktok for using the hashtag "mall goth" in a video where they wear a My Chemical Romance tshirt. it's ridiculous and annoying as hell, like everyone is so concerned with appearing The Most Goth on the internet that nobody can have a conversation for fear of ruining their Super Goth image
This is an old video so you may not see this, but I just want to thank you for putting these types of videos out! I was raised by punk parents, grew up with the punk music, lifestyle and fashion. I've always loved goth fashion but didn't consider myself goth for a very long time. Honestly, I was intimidated by the thought because it all seemed so complex. Over the years I have stepped back a bit from the punk lifestyle (though I still love the music!) and have learned a lot about the goth subculture and history. You're one of the few youtubers who really inspired me to take the dive and give the subculture a try. I never felt the need to compare myself to others when I identified as a punk, and now I see that goth is very much the same way in that regard. Thank you for working so hard to tear down the walls the modern goth community insists on putting up. Bravo! I'm not new to the alternative life, but I'd like to give you credit for helping to bring out the "baby bat" in me!
This past two videos came at just the right time for me. I started Goth back in the early 2000's, but for reasons, steeped away from the fashion side of it for a while. I never stopped loving the music and culture, but I was apprehensive to call myself 'Goth'. It wasn't until I had kids that I said "Fuck it! I'm gonna wear ware my clothes and make-up the way I like!" But then another bump in the road happened - all of these 'types'.
Now, my look is *very* laid back still from just re-entering, and I started to doubt myself again. I like Victory Rolls and cats eyes with red lips, so that falls into one 'subtype', but I layer long flowy dresses and skirts with layers and *gasp* color, so that's another subtype and a lot of other different stylistic teases - either dress or music or what I read/watch. I have long hair, but I don't dye it black; I have actual colors in my wardrobe and don't spend $300 for an outfit, this or that didn't make me 'goth enough' and I was feeling that 'I don't fit anywhere' feeling again.
Then I realized *again*, fuck it! It's just one part of the whole that is me. It's stupid; like saying that "you have kids, so you can ONLY be a mom' or 'you're married, so you ONLY be a wife'.
So, yes, I'm Goth. I'm also a nerdy, religious, pop culture savvy, sarcastic, Irish language student, musical loving weird-o - and I can still be Goth!
This channel helps me keep that in mind. Thank you for that
you can sit with me LOL XD that made me laugh and made my morning
I also was goth in the 90s. I never once classified myself, rather embraced my love of music and expressing myself as I felt. Still love my black cat collar 😜😜
Thanks for reposting this video, I feel that what you say needs saying and, together with many of the comments below, I find it's really encouraging!
Personally, since childhood, I've always had a strong sense of what I've wanted to wear, fortunately both my parents are artistic/creative people, and although their personal style is more understated, they've always been into people expressing their individuality with their style choices, and being 'alternative' (thinking for oneself).
So since very early childhood I was always encouraged by them, and other alternative people, to choose for myself and go for it! and not to care what others think - I suppose I was fortunate to be brought up to know it's how I treat others that truly counts...
Anyhow much love and respect to you Angela👍💎💞
And also to all you awesome individuals out there - please keep being inspirational the world needs you!
I'm a baby bat and so happy with this video. While the names of all those gave me some examples and direction that made me inspired, I was also wondering and even stressing about what to call myself. Intuitively I just wanted to call myself 'goth' and am so glad to have found this
STANDS FROM CHAIR...... CLAP CLAP CLAP..... I totally AGREE.... THANK YOU .
Thanks for revamping and uploading your earlier content(not that it wasn't impeccable in the first place)! Have you thought of setting up a merch shop for this channel or collabing with a fashion company in the future ? Would love to support your work here on YT!
xoxo👽
Goth is goth no matter what label you put on before it. You want to add a dash of dark purples or even pinks? Go for it. You want to try different accessories with your usual look? Do you. Want to wear a harness instead of a corset? Short shirt over long and flowing? White wig instead of black? Send me pictures but goth is still goth
"It's called individuality, not a subculture"
Absolutely!! Thank you sooo much for saying this!
Was going to say myself: Goth is expressing yourself individually. Not conforming to society... Therefore putting everyone in a box and even claiming they aren't Goth enough or.. *gasp* a Poser... Is very damaging indeed. Because they can't even be themselves through something thar was MEANT to take something and put your own spin on it. To be individual. To express your different darkness from even another Goth.
To be completely honest, I've thought of Goth (This year I came to this realization), as individual as Sugar Skulls. They may inspire each other to flourish, but no two are alike.. It's actually disrespectful to copy someone else because it is Artist and personally symbolic. But there are certain features that make it "A Sugar Skull/Makeup" I feel like Goth was meant to be like that in it's own senses.
I hope this makes sense and doesn't come off insulting as it's meant exactly the opposite.
Thank you so much for this video! 🖤🦇
I couldn´t have said it better myself. Always a pleasure to watch your videos.
Am I the first view??? omg yay! dropped everything for this vid. thanks for another one Angela, you look amazing btw :-)
edit: Love the bit at the end
I've been asked where I get my aesthetic from and I'm just kinda like... Meh I just go with whatever I feel like wearing on whatever day. I don't have any specific aesthetic or subgenre and I love your view on the topic.
I used to think that I had to pick a style of clothing in order to be considered goth and "fit in" (even recently, I had trouble choosing because I like all styles), but watching this video has enlightened me so much. The way you put it just makes me feel so much more at ease about what I wear as a goth.
I'm so happy to hear that! Part of the subculture is self expression and if you're confined to a particular style because of some rule that someone made up, then you're expressing someone else. Thanks for your message
That's such a great way of putting it and I prefer not to be like what someone else thinks I should be (I've been avoiding this my whole life!), I want to be who I want to be. And you're welcome! Thank you for making this video, you just got a new subscriber! ^_^
Wow! Being Goth is pretty complex and deep (and philosophical). I love the style, like moving art.
thankyou so much for putting this out there. i get called a fake goth all the time because im able to afford goth clothing brands. im told since i didn't put thought in to it or make it myself im all of a sudden not allowed to be goth. an on top of all the i get told ALL THE TIME "goth is just the music its not fashion'' but obviously it is a fashion i hate people cant see that when it is right in front of them its 2019 its not just about the music anymore. also the fact that people have to shove themselves in a box just to make sure they have a place in the community sucks so much because i love elements from all "subs" of goth. there are so many goths out there that hate being picked on by "normys" but then they want to criticize the hell out of the people who want to be apart of the community that wants to be accepted for who they are and what they like. but i guess theirs just no room for new concepts.
I love how she just speaks her mind and says it how it is yess
I totally agree thank u, ive never hear d anyone point out this issue before and i appreciate it. I love all of them!
I totally agree with you, I want to mix all the different clothing styles, because I fins them cool, and beautiful and I can't not and wont just pick one. Thank you for making this video and speaking out. I'm 100% on your side and will stand up for you and this belief.
finds not fins
Hello,Angela.I agree that Goth should be united.I love the message that this video has!💗
PS.When is your birthday?.
Thanks for expressing your opinion.😘
Thank you. I'm a goth from the 90's and you got it on the head. It was the music. And we were all the same. Everyone was an individual and we were all banded together.
"It's like getting mad at a shoe" I love that!
I needed this. I'm so grateful I watched this. I've had a hard time with my "identity" in the alternative subcultures. I wear and enjoy much of the goth scene but am criticized because im not "consistent" i dress androgynous, a little punk, full on romantic, nu, or trad, and some sort of hodge-podge of it all that i dont know how to define. its my style but i dont know what it is. thank you for saying i dont need to know what it is. im goth with punk tendencies. i can be me, be both , and be ok with it. love you!
Finally someone that explains!i was so confused into all that types and stuff!!!! ❤️🌹thank you Angela Benedict
My interpretation of goth or more to the point what being goth is to me atleast has always been about freedom. Freedom to choose, freedom to express and freedom to be who you are. I’m a baby bat, but I’ve been a baby bat for a long time (living in a rural town with no people in the subculture around me, has been hard. I’ve had to do it on my own which I’m fine with; but the small town mindset is hard to combat against when you’re trying to be yourself.. different from everyone else.) but watching videos like this, when I’m starting to branch out and try it fully now, is a great help. It’s so confusing; all the different sub genres, it’s hard especially when it’s made out you’re not a proper goth until you choose. So I thank you, this was something I really needed to hear x
I’m a 2000’s goth and I also like metal music. So in my local scene we all mixed together I’m including punks, emo kids and skater kids as well all in one place. My look swaps between goth and metal depending on how I’m feeling or what I’m doing for the day I find it keeps me more happy like this and I see nothing wrong with mixing up the styles but it’s been drummed into us to know the difference in theses styles. Love your videos keep it up
Your absolutely right. Thanks for clearing up this mess for me, classifying a subculture based on fashion is limiting and ridiculous. It also doesn’t allow people to connect genuinely based on their music style and interests but makes it more fake and about appearance solely. Gross!
I'm a new subscriber, this was lovely 💖
Mack and Liberty Welcome to the fam! ❤
Mack and Liberty same here.
Great video! Baby Bat in the 90's now living in a small Canadian city with no scene and I admit it's been a loss. I've seen the same transition over time through the web, and I'm glad to start finding small gems of the culture again. Thanks a bunch.
Cheers!
Completely agreed. As you said correctly, Goth or not Goth, not matter which "style" of clothing we wear.
I just found your channel and omg thank you, you beautiful lady! I myself have been sort of in and out of the whole Goth scene as well as punk rock and things like that and now I'm sort of a mix of a bunch of stuff but I always felt bad because whenever I would talk to other Goths about fashion or anything they would call me fake and say I didn't even know what Goth was or that i was stupid. I always just thought fashion was expressing what you like and being yourself, I agree with you completely 👍🏻😊
I don't know where people get off being so rude to others and appointing themselves lordship of the subculture. It's all about your journey and your discovery of the subculture. The fashion, literature, the history, the music and just finding who you are. It's not for anyone else to tell you who you are or police the pace in which you do so. Screw em ;P
I never took the "type" thing seriously, I just thought it was fun.
Hi, Angela I'm new to your videos, and I'm about 2 or 3 years older than you from NJ so I floated between NYC and Philly scenes. I love your videos it gives me that fun nostalgic feeling of a point and life that is near and dear to my heart. While I dont live the fashion full time anymore my heart is still goth, and the one thing I notice from your videos, the comments, etc. Is that people just dont get it. They're trying to define Goth to be one thing or one way. That's really heartbreaking because at the core I always felt you're supposed to have fun and not take anything too seriously. Again thank you for the videos they're a lot of fun, and my daughter is obsessed with how you look.
I watched a whole bunch of your videos and I have to say you helped me a lot. at times when I was younger and even these days when I don't feel ''goth enough'' I always remember what you have to say in your videos.
You are 100% right Angela! dress however you want!!! Goth is about unity pls stop shaming stop shaming people and let people do what they want and long as it is NOT harming anybody!!! ( BTW I am Baby bat VERY KNEW one too and I just turned 13 any tips for PG outfits for me that are very inexpensive or that I can DIY myself and also tips to convince my parents to let me be goth are VERY much appreciated!!!)
I came here to find the right box to put myself in and was instead liberated from that pressure. Thank you Angela. New sub.
I'm so happy to hear that. The whole subgenre thing was created as a joke via cartoon characters of types of goths more than 10 years ago now and new goths came across them and took it seriously. It's now completely out of control.
That makes sense. I definitely like elements from all different styles of goth when it comes to fashion. I've always been into dark literature and have started exploring some integral goth bands. I just thought of this, though he's one of my favorite artists and was always very dark, but would you say Jim Morrison was goth?
I used to get and still get told "you aren't goth, you don't dress like a real goth" and till this day all I can say to poeople like that is "sorry not sorry, I happen to like lavender, and baby blue and pink, just as much as I like my mohawk, and my stompy boots." If I wanna wear romantic one day and pastel the next, I will if I want, and it doesn't make me any less "goth". I agree with you goth is goth.
Your video's are incredibly inspiring, being a punk\goth in a small town has been tough, theres no scene here. but your videos have inspired me to get into a bigger city to experience the scene, i just cant waste more time wishing there was one here
Can I just say I love what you have to say about this whole topic and I fully agree. I couldn't have said it better and will happily reference to you and this video in future discussions :)
I myself am the same, I don't choose a 'subgenre', I just go with what I feel like from day to day and party to party.
Sometimes I felt inadequate for it because people all over the place start to think in those boxes and perpetuate the idea that you need to choose one 'subgenre' (and god forbid it's not 'batcave', 'deathrock' or 'trad' because all the new styles are invalid to begin with for them). Your video is very reassuring and I hope a lot of baby bats as well as people that have been in the scene longer than that feel the same about it.
Cheers and greetings!
How do I feel nostalgic for a time that I didn’t exist in? You are so elegant and your stories of 90’s goth are so special.
You go girl!! I grew up in a town where kids were afraid they weren't goth enough and would beat themselves up if they were caught wearing anything other than full romantic style clothing. It was awful. People had jobs and we're afraid of being seen in a uniform. Ridiculous. I was working in a bar and was asked to tone down my make up as it was believed to upset customers, so I did in the daytime but at night my boss allowed heavier makeup. I notice that today, it's not like it used to be. Back in the day you could go anywhere and if you met a goth whom you had never met before, there was a unspoken code of acceptance whereas now, you are almost shunned if you don't fit a certain style. So sad x
I’m a trad goth and I hadn’t even heard of the term before this video lmao
This video tranquilizes me a lot in regards to this "goth subgenre fashion" thing. Thanks a lot for that
I agree with you a lot. When I first got into goth when I was 12 in 2011, I loved everything from the music, fashion, literature etc. I wasn't allowed to wear the fashion because my family is not accepting at all and really discouraged me. Now that I'm 18 and an adult, I informed them that i should be allowed to wear what I choose. They agreed. They still tell me how much they hate it but now they can't force me to change my outfit or wipe off my make up like they used to. So when I started shopping around for clothes I found it very confusing and overwhelming because of all the labels. I had to take a step back and learn to ignore them. I dress in want ever I like. I'm not romantic or punk or Nu. I'm just goth.
I just found your videos and I have to say they're lovely.
As someone who's just testing the waters of the subculture but not yet sure about it all, its a bit comforting to know that not every goth believes that you have to 'chose a sub-genre'. Choosing a sub-genre was a genuine worry of mine, despite how silly it sounds. It was a big question of "Where do I fit in? What if I don't fit in? Do I just abandon the subculture all together?" Though I'm still tossing it all around in my head, I'm very grateful for this message. Even for those who aren't goth, I think you're message is wonderful. Don't worry about forcing yourself to fit into a predetermined mold because it really doesn't matter anyway.
Ive only been in the goth subculture for 3 years and learning my way around. My personal style is all over the place. This helped me become more comfortable in the fact that I dont have to wear a singular style of gothic clothes. Thank you so much for making this.
Thank you so much for your comment, I'm happy I've been able to help you through the rough spots.
Love is love?
Goth is goth.
Your necklace is to die for.... LOVE IT!
I absolutely agree with and love everything you a saying. Goth is goth. What more is there to it than that? Individuality with your look may happen, but that doesn’t throw anyone into a new & separate category. Rock your look in whatever way you want, but you’re still just....goth! And it’s beautiful as long as you’re not forming a clique in a specific look.
I definitely agree with this. Many people are trying to classify themselves and trying to get unique titles rather than just being themselves. I would much rather just be myself than try to classify and change myself to fit a title.
Seriously, goth is goth. You don't need to choose a uniform, just do you.
Angela Benedict so true
10000000% agree! This has always been important to me especially since I, personally, love a little bit of everything.
I really like this video. Being at 90s goth myself I’ve always listen to music that I found to be “dark” regardless of it’s genre, as far as the clothing that I wore it was always handmade with my own artistic expression, I still do this to this day I had many people ask me what group type of Goth I belong to, it’s not about what you wear and what you listen to it’s your mindset and I’m really glad you pointed that out this video, thank you
I was about to get kinda mad wiht the title but this video has a really sweet message behind it, you're so positive and accepting ;u;
Tricked ya, mwahaha :P I'm happy you like it. This subgenre stuff is ridiculous. Great way to categorize fashion when you're searching for it online but definitely not applicable to people. We're goth's, that's all.
I'm really glad this has been said. I'm new to this channel and have been on the scene for 15 years. I've always had at least 3-5 different "types" of goth in my repertoire but as a whole I'll do combinations of style that suit me best. I like the victorian vampire styles and the more modern vampire styles with hints of demonic flare. I don't find many with my combo but that's ok. As long as you are respectful of people's right to express themselves it doesn't matter what category you do or don't fit into. Goth is goth. Always has been and always will be.
As somebody wanting to design clothing for people. This is a valuable perspective. Thank you for your video!! I'm done with everyone trying to tear eachother apart! Celebrate individuality 🖤
I agree. No one should feel they have to conform to any box, label or sub genres, regardless of who made it.
Just found your channel and the title really caught my eye. This is a subject that I've talk at length about with my friends and I agree that the whole sub-genre thing needs to die. Out of all of the goths that I know, I don't know of a single one that would fit 100% into any one sub-genre. It's far too fun to mix and match and make you're own style. Granted if someone really like one particular style then that's totally cool too. You do you. I guess what I'm getting at is: once were all see these as styles and not sub-genres, the community as a whole will be better for it.
I agree. It's ok to apply the categories for clothing and shoes but definitely not to people.
I wonder why I did not subscribe to your channel before ... you're fantastic! And not only for your personality, but for the way you see our subculture, your way of loving it, respecting it and defending it.
Here you have a faithful subscriber more, watching your videos I am proud to belong to a world so culturally rich, thanks for making goth subculture shine with more intensity, the goth community needs more people like you.
Any sort of label just separates us as a community. All of us are equal with unique personalities.
I'm so glad I found someone who truly understands this.
Ive connect to my goth side since i was young to me your a goth or not. As long as you understand that we as goth should not give up on life. We all have something we need to discover and wounds to heal. Ive seen people shame goths by saying their the same as emos because we both wear black. I wear black because i feel the pain of people and try to understand how to help. We wear a mask that we use that we hide our true face. At the end of the day we need to accept each other and try to help not hurt. I like you video.
Hi Angela, like yourself I was around in the early 90's and I eased into goth via other alternative styles. I don't know if it was like this in NYC, but in my neck of the woods, and for a long time, it was all just alternative. Yes, there were distinctions like goth, industrial, new wave, metal, grunge, and the more general alternative music, and people chose their camp, mostly through fashion, but the grunge would dance to Sisters and the goths would dance to Skinny Puppy and so on. We all just gathered around the generic alternative umbrella. Throughout the years, I've gone from your generic goth to more fetish-influenced, to more romantic and so on, but it's all been mainly as a form of dress than anything else, and it's only in the early 2000's that thing really started to branch out fashion-wise with a decline of the traditional/romantic look in favor of cyber goth, but again, despite what anyone wears on any given night, it doesn't mean we stop liking a wide variety of music, so I'm very much like-minded as you in this regard. I hate being pigeon-holed by people and that liberty is one of the main things that got me interested in the scene in the first place. So while there are some styles that seem to come with certain music (cyber for EBM/industrial or trad for... well, trad), at the end of the day, we're all part of the same family and this is one of our choosing so enough with the sub-sub categories already. BTW, I just got my goths for Sophie calendar today... good on you for doing it! XOXO