This videos was four years ago, so you have probably figured things out. For everyone else, use some White-Out on your pressure plates. Your mokume gane won't stick. I've heard of people using carbon from a flame. There are assorted techniques around, but two that remain constant, patients and cleanliness.
ok, use a forge vise and thicker steel plate around 20 mm to press on mokume billet, with big bolts… dont forget when you clean your mokume using sand paper or so its to remove oxyde, wich ll build up quite quickly if you dont protect your mokume sheets after cleaning…. continue good work.
Other options. Dip in kerosene before forging to remove air. Don't put plates together still wet with water! Submerge your plates in acetone and soak for a bit before rubbing clean. Weld it instead of clamping, the clamps hold it together, but you need to wack it when it is hot to forge weld it, the clamps only allow your hits to add pressure in the centre, which results in delaminations on the outer edge. Don't use a hammer to join it after taking it out of the forge, use a car jack or better still a hydralic press/flypress with flat plates. You need slow high pressure uniformally distrubuted across the entire surface. If this were a oxidising metal like Stainless steel, add a sprinkle of activated carbon, or encase in steel foil and add some argon. (or both) If you are going to use clamps, try and use a stainless steel (higher melting point) clamp set with larger bolts and threads with much thicker plates. then you may be able to (carefully) wind the bolts down to add compression to the billet instead of hammering. Also add what the americans call whiteout on the plates to stop them sticking. (or some paper, which will also reduce the O2) Heat the billet inside a bit of square bar to get more uniform heat distribution in the fire.
I would suggest you try a boron nitride release agent between the steel plates and your mokume gane stack. Boron nitride aerosols can be bought for about £20. Also, I wouldn't put the stack together wet. Thoroughly clean and use a solvent like acetone to accelerate drying.
I just started making Mokume Gane myself and from my research online, a lot of people use meths to clean the metal which is what I've been doing which might be better than deionised water. I've also been brushing my compression plates, screws and nuts with anti-flux to try and stop the metal fusing with each other.
thats a great suggestion. Someone has also said to me try scotchbright pads, which I now have, so will give that a go. Also now picked up some Silver Nickel, so that should really make some difference on the colours !
very late but tipex is byfar the best release agent and you most likely have some also acetone and a glass scratch brush are the way to go the bok you have has al the information you will ever need, its the one i stil use as a reference @@Doobrey
I know this video is quite old and you have propably moved on by now. But you said you were going to experiment further and maybe add nickel-silver to the equation. Can you maybe give some further insights on what you have learned? I am trying to make mokume myself and I'm really struggling to get it right. Thanks in advance :)
We use almost exactly the same method, I stopped hitting it with a hammer when it comes out of the forge for the first time because it deforms the Steel plates. This can cause uneven pressure or no pressure at all when you put it back in. (I’ve found pressure distributed evenly across the stack is very important for even lamination, I’ve had stacks only laminated on 1 side due to uneven pressure). I take it out let it cool for a minute and tighten all the bolts again. Then I stick it back in until welding temp, take it out, take the steel plates off, stick it back in alone then give it a few good hammer hits to really make sure everything’s good and laminated. Sand all the sides so there are no cold shuts and making sure everything’s laminated, if so it’s ready for further forging
@@Doobrey The brass melted into the small cracks on the steel. Brazing is like a pseudo welding process. It's used in plumbing and for things where welding isn't an option. The process is done by melting a non ferrous metal to a ferrous one, typically done with brass and steel. It stuck because when you ground the steel to clean it, you made small grooves into the steel. So that when the brass melted, it melted into the small ridges in the steel forming a bond similar to epoxy except stronger
@@Doobrey I'd say your best option is to put the copper plates on each side. If the brass melted your piece got too hot. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing because that means your billet is hot enough to forge weld together. If it sticks using a chisel wouldn't be a bad option. Or you could try mokume gane with other metals, silver and copper, copper and gold, brass and silver, copper and bronze, and copper with nickel is a good combination to practice with. Maybe try copper and bronze because nickel is somewhat expensive and bronze won't braze as easy.
Its because you were reusing plates so it built up a small amount of alloy in the steel surface until a true alloy layer formed allowing the brass to weld to it
I see this all the time. What I have observed is cleanliness is important. After heating and in-between times you really should be wire brushing, cleaning firescale and impurities from your anvil ,forge and hammer. Your really kind of a messy guy you know. When you hit any metal after being in the forge ,you have to clean,t otherwise your pushing it right in there. The cleaning you did before hand an during was half-assed.
just lay a piece of paper on the top and bottom. will never fuse with ur press that way. and mokume normaly is held at fusing temp for hours.
I
This videos was four years ago, so you have probably figured things out. For everyone else, use some White-Out on your pressure plates. Your mokume gane won't stick. I've heard of people using carbon from a flame. There are assorted techniques around, but two that remain constant, patients and cleanliness.
ok, use a forge vise and thicker steel plate around 20 mm to press on mokume billet, with big bolts… dont forget when you clean your mokume using sand paper or so its to remove oxyde, wich ll build up quite quickly if you dont protect your mokume sheets after cleaning…. continue good work.
Other options.
Dip in kerosene before forging to remove air. Don't put plates together still wet with water!
Submerge your plates in acetone and soak for a bit before rubbing clean.
Weld it instead of clamping, the clamps hold it together, but you need to wack it when it is hot to forge weld it, the clamps only allow your hits to add pressure in the centre, which results in delaminations on the outer edge.
Don't use a hammer to join it after taking it out of the forge, use a car jack or better still a hydralic press/flypress with flat plates. You need slow high pressure uniformally distrubuted across the entire surface.
If this were a oxidising metal like Stainless steel, add a sprinkle of activated carbon, or encase in steel foil and add some argon. (or both)
If you are going to use clamps, try and use a stainless steel (higher melting point) clamp set with larger bolts and threads with much thicker plates. then you may be able to (carefully) wind the bolts down to add compression to the billet instead of hammering. Also add what the americans call whiteout on the plates to stop them sticking. (or some paper, which will also reduce the O2)
Heat the billet inside a bit of square bar to get more uniform heat distribution in the fire.
Mo
Koo
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NAY
Thank you !!!!
I would suggest you try a boron nitride release agent between the steel plates and your mokume gane stack. Boron nitride aerosols can be bought for about £20.
Also, I wouldn't put the stack together wet. Thoroughly clean and use a solvent like acetone to accelerate drying.
I just started making Mokume Gane myself and from my research online, a lot of people use meths to clean the metal which is what I've been doing which might be better than deionised water. I've also been brushing my compression plates, screws and nuts with anti-flux to try and stop the metal fusing with each other.
thats a great suggestion. Someone has also said to me try scotchbright pads, which I now have, so will give that a go. Also now picked up some Silver Nickel, so that should really make some difference on the colours !
very late but tipex is byfar the best release agent and you most likely have some
also acetone and a glass scratch brush are the way to go
the bok you have has al the information you will ever need, its the one i stil use as a reference @@Doobrey
Great share
I know this video is quite old and you have propably moved on by now. But you said you were going to experiment further and maybe add nickel-silver to the equation. Can you maybe give some further insights on what you have learned? I am trying to make mokume myself and I'm really struggling to get it right. Thanks in advance :)
Hey Finn. Interestingly I now have have silver copper and brass to play with. Watch this space....
When sanding by hand it shoud drawing an 8 number otherwise one side would be sanded more than the other
Thank you for the advice. I am always learning, so will follow this!!
@@Doobrey wish you good luck on your beginnings.
You need to get heat into the billet more slowly and evenly.
We use almost exactly the same method, I stopped hitting it with a hammer when it comes out of the forge for the first time because it deforms the Steel plates. This can cause uneven pressure or no pressure at all when you put it back in. (I’ve found pressure distributed evenly across the stack is very important for even lamination, I’ve had stacks only laminated on 1 side due to uneven pressure). I take it out let it cool for a minute and tighten all the bolts again. Then I stick it back in until welding temp, take it out, take the steel plates off, stick it back in alone then give it a few good hammer hits to really make sure everything’s good and laminated. Sand all the sides so there are no cold shuts and making sure everything’s laminated, if so it’s ready for further forging
the sheet stuck to the steel because the brazed on to it
Hey stick man. How do you mean “the brazed on to it”?
@@Doobrey The brass melted into the small cracks on the steel. Brazing is like a pseudo welding process. It's used in plumbing and for things where welding isn't an option. The process is done by melting a non ferrous metal to a ferrous one, typically done with brass and steel. It stuck because when you ground the steel to clean it, you made small grooves into the steel. So that when the brass melted, it melted into the small ridges in the steel forming a bond similar to epoxy except stronger
Thank you stuck man. Any ways of stopping this happening?
@@Doobrey I'd say your best option is to put the copper plates on each side. If the brass melted your piece got too hot. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing because that means your billet is hot enough to forge weld together. If it sticks using a chisel wouldn't be a bad option. Or you could try mokume gane with other metals, silver and copper, copper and gold, brass and silver, copper and bronze, and copper with nickel is a good combination to practice with. Maybe try copper and bronze because nickel is somewhat expensive and bronze won't braze as easy.
Its because you were reusing plates so it built up a small amount of alloy in the steel surface until a true alloy layer formed allowing the brass to weld to it
I see this all the time. What I have observed is cleanliness is important. After heating and in-between times you really should be wire brushing, cleaning firescale and impurities from your anvil ,forge and hammer. Your really kind of a messy guy you know. When you hit any metal after being in the forge ,you have to clean,t otherwise your pushing it right in there. The cleaning you did before hand an during was half-assed.
Thanks for the comments Tom. I think you are right. Cleanliness is key here. I think i will have another go based on your suggestions. Thank you!