As great as this is, people barely even know that it's possible to collaborate in office, let alone something this advanced. Microsoft needs to convey these things to consumers
I agree 1000%. I can never get our leadership or team members to break out of the basic way of using any Microsoft tools and I have tried over and over for a decade.
The only way I can see this taking off is if Microsoft paid employers to let Microsoft train their staff or, more realistically but slower, Microsoft offered schools and colleges free training for pupils/students in how to use the products. Senior management don’t see training in Office as something that is needed. To them Word is just a typewriter, Excel is just maths and PowerPoint is just drawing on transparencies. If people don’t already know how to do that then they don’t get hired. The EU tried to fix this with the European Computer Driving License (ECDL), free at point of delivery training in how to use a PC and an office suite. This was beset by a number of problems, in particular a lack of oversight to confirm that training actually happened (at one time you could be literally stopped in the street by multiple people offering a set of CBT disks and a hastily written manual, sometimes with a money off coupon for a store attached, if you would give your name and address, I still have a box of the CBT disks) and the currency of that training (even those companies that did offer actual training often used massively out of date versions of office (I recently forced one to move off Office 97 to Office 365) or an obscure free package, not even Libreoffice), whilst ECDL has mostly died off now (although you can still find some companies offering it, for a fee) the same problems are being seen Modern Apprenticeships where apprentices are just pointed at a website with out dated tutorials and told to get on with it whilst the training company milks the apprenticeship levy funding. Unfortunately, since a lot of people see using office as something they do at work, a lot of them won’t consider up learning in their own time, if their manager doesn’t put them on the course in work time then they won’t ask for training and certainly won’t do it in their own time. Even if all this was fixed, it would still require a massive change in cybersecurity stance, and probably the summary execution of most cybersecurity professionals, to eliminate the “That looks useful, better turn it off” attitude so common in the field. If something poses a genuine risk then that risk must be mitigated, but turning off or blocking useful tools and features out of misplaced fear is not on.
Indeed. True story -- I build a Google Sheet that I wanted a co-worker to collaborate on, so I emailed them the link. Rather than putting their bits directly on the Google Sheet, they downloaded the sheet, loaded it into Excel, made their changes in Excel, and then emailed me their updated Excel sheet. Grrr...
This. The regular folks are not 1/10 as excited as people watching this usually are. It basically changes completely the way they should work, and 90% of people are not ready or wanting to do it, which is a deal breaker for a team collaboration tool. Microsoft would ned to find a way to bridge this gap.
Agree, most users I encounter are still saving their documents as the OLD format of the MS office tools and if it can’t be printed out they aren’t interested. Getting them to use SharePoint or OneDrive is hard enough!
Honestly, as a part time admin of a sharepoint farm that grew to 3TB, creation was never the problem, nor was editing. It almost always came down to confidence of the person to make integrated and not isolated change. Save as instead of save over. It's a nice idea but it'll put the fear of god into people in a business environment where they'll now feel that every word they type, even a rough sketch, is automatically being judged in real time.
As much as I like this video and the enthusiasm of the person in the video, this loop thing looks not too improved over Microsoft's SharePoint to me. If Microsoft truly wants to transform work, they could start with the loading time of MS 365's Outlook.
I wish Microsoft wouldn't restrict access to only those with a work or school Microsoft account / email. They do the same with Power BI. As a 365 subscriber, it feels like those of us who don't work at big organisations are being deliberately sidelined.
Agreed but they also bring lots of enterprise focused apps to Personal plans. Teams is the most recent example of that I guess. So I am pretty sure Loop will have an Personal version as well. It is just brand new so it will take some time
That is how they work. Kill the little guy and make the big folks have more...so they can make us richer. Oh, believe me that is their strategy, like it or not.
It seems like the product journey isn't clear and so fragmented with all of these tools. This is why Google Work is used so much, because it is fit for modern collaborative work and not overloaded and pretty clear which tools fulfill each task. The capabilities could have been integrated into OneNote without creating yet another tool. Microsoft really needs to simplify, reduce and focus.
Google deserves more credit with the online collaboration tools. Microsoft just milking on Google's ideas just like grabbing chromium from Google Chrome.
@@KaterKarloMawMaw where do tables usually end up? Either in a word document, in an excel spreadsheet, or in a presentation. So why not just collaborate in that application? The alternative is to create ANOTHER app like Loop over here, that makes previously static elements (sent emails and Teams messages) dynamic in a counterintuitive and utterly unnecessary way. Thats just my opinion.
Great video and a really cool concept but I’m skeptical as to how a thing like that would be used in real life. It seems a bit overwhelming and I’m already struggling with colleagues who don’t even know how to write comments or use track changes in shared documents. This also seems to be a bit less transparent about who has access to which specific loop elements, which could be problematic if you’re working on something confidential or otherwise sensitive where different team members require access to different bits of information.
Concept is definitely game changing. I'm always skeptical as to how much game changing people are willing to embrace. Looking forward to trying it out.
Today more than ever, people feel change fatigued. We have to work harder to show the value of a feature or product. It has to align with their goals or solve a clear problem. Otherwise it becomes a toy that offers a brief period of amusement, before people return to old habits with current tools.
@@dansternathac6487 that depends on how many are playing the game. I have introduced hundreds to Loop and used it to “play” with project delivery teams. The game isn’t much fun when you play in your own. While some parts of the game are easy to understand, many haven’t tried playing or seen the value of playing. But features like Collaborative Notes in Teams meetings is helping introduce people to the game.
Loop looks like fancy footwork that, in practice, offers a tiny increment in productivity ... or maybe even diminishes it. ever heard of the saying "too many cooks spoil the broth" ?
Our data and technology expert in our organization has been sharing your videos with us for over two years. I am sorry that I’m just seriously watching them. You have explained Microsoft 365 so wonderfully, and I love your examples that you use with your Kevin cookie company. It makes it so realistic and doable. Thank you for these great instructional videos.
Once again Kevin, thank you. Your explanation and examples are on point. Using Loop within an educational environment with department, class and group projects will become a real game changer. Talk about expanding possibilities!
I can see Loop being very helpful to my team. However, I started a loop in Teams chat to test it out and added one of my colleagues. It tells me "You need to add at least two people to start a group chat." That is a stumbling block for a small organization. Our projects get started with one or two people and then a larger team is developed as needed.
Based on the thread that delta started, I agree with the comments raised about buy-in. I consider myself to be progressive in regards to tech and software, but I don't think I would use loop unless my company demanded it from me. Why? Because the entire software ecosystem would have to change so that ALL are using it. My suggestion for making it happen isn't to offer more training, or even mandates. Instead, I would have the software itself mandate its use. How you ask? By popping up a guided set of questions, like "I see you are starting a chat in Teams. Do you want a table or a chat thread? Table! OK, now, how many columns? Three! OK. How many rows? Four! Here's your table. Now, who might possibly be involved in the future with your table? (Loop presents a list of possible names and depending on your selection, it automatically sends emails inviting them in) Anyway, after the system "trains" you in how it is supposed to work, you can turn it off. I think most people want to use better tools, but changing the mind is tough by just offering more training. Change the current paradigms and expectations and people will change.
Loop has a long way to go before it can compete with Notion. For a start it needs to be available to all Microsoft 365 users: I cannot understand the justification for leaving all those paid subscribers "out of the loop" (ouch!). Secondly, I foresee real problems in people being able to edit each others work on the fly - the integrity of concepts will suffer in all sorts of ways. Shared responsibility is a wonderful ethic in the workplace so long as training has embedded shared leadership into the training and induction programme; unfortunately in too many organisations shared responsibility results in no-one accepting personal responsibility. If this is how the Microsoft organisation generate their projects, it explains a lot about the company's legendary glitches!
Great video, Kevin! I think Loop looks interesting and going to try and incorporate it into some projects I'm working on. I really like the integration with Outlook and OneNote too! I guess my only worry is that as the components are stored in the person who starts the Loops' OneDrive - what happens if that person leaves the company? The access to this Loop will be gone would be my guess which wouldn't be ideal if you are mid-project and have a large-ish Loop a lot of folks are collaborating on.
So I work in IT, and we'd probably just hand that onedrive folder over to someone else. A lot of companies will already archive your data when you leave, for liability sake (like if someone has the only copy of an important contract and we don't find out until they've left)
Looks great, one of our managers attempted to do project management via Teams, should have worked, but a senior user refuses to use teams and only uses email with all the issues relating to out of date files, hopefully this will fix this sort of issue.
Is it an acceptable option to email the link to the Loop page? That will be like a live Word document. The senior user can open the Loop in browser just like Office online and see the most up to date activity in the Loop.
I left the IT industry before all this real-time doc sharing became popular to push out by big tech. Will it catch on? In my time most people preferred to work on docs in their own time. Then distribute the doc for comments. This way you had time to think the content through and get it right the first time. Not sure people having access to change my doc on the fly will make for a considered piece of work.
This is how people solved this problem in google docs (where co-editor existed for a long time): Limit the editors to a very small group (3-5). All thd other collaborators do not get edit permission but only comment permission. Any of the editors can review the comments and decide what changes to include. This allow to hundle hundreds of collaborators. Like 200+. This works well in google docs because comments are attached to specific location in the document but can also be seen cronologically. From what I remeber word does allow to review comments but only in the order of their ancor. Not sure if that is good enough. Also I'm not sure viewing comment in sequence is supported in other office app. I don't know if office permission allow comment only permission. Google docs didn't when they started.
Loop is a great tool for online teaching with MS Teams. My students really enjoy using it to review and practice structures for writing topics and vocabulary activities. Having an open format means students can peer check and correct each other, and I can also see who participated in the activity during and after the session. It works really smoothly on a mobile device, I am planning to use it for in-person classes in this way in the future so we work live on an activity, it's really motivating for students to see the results of their collaboration. So much better than Whiteboard, which often doesn't work well for students on slow networks or on a small screen. It would be great to have this available in Zoom in the future.
Thank you, Kevin! We are so excited about Loop, and it has already made a huge positive impact on our collaboration both internally and externally. My Team has learned so much from your content!
Yes. This will transform the way we work. I’ve been following Fluid/Loop for some time. I’ve wondered how it will turn out & how we could use it. Should we use it? Your tutorial answers, yes. Thanks for explaining objects v. pages v. workspaces. I can see our company making use of all 3.
Get familiar with taking notes together in a 1:1 chat. It’s the quickest way to see value. Then invite others to the chat and share the Loop as your ideas grow and take shape.
Thank you sir for this valuable information that has been hiding in my plain sight. Although you are the second person I have watched present information on Microsoft Loop; the first person left me, well, in a loop, as to what Loop was. Thank you so much for the clarity and wishing you well as your channel continues to grow. God bless
Holy cow, that looks awesome! I wonder how it integrates with Excel? Can I use Power Query to pull data from Loop components or get an Excel Table in my workbook to live sync with Loop tables? That would be epic!
I hope to see Office applications re-engineered to be based on the Fluid framework that Loop uses. Then it would be easy to share pieces of a worksheet or Word doc, and update them from Outlook, Teams and other Loop-aware apps.
Notion is awesome and I expect Microsoft to take notion down much like they did with Slack. Slack seemed like the king at one time and now Teams blows it out of the water. Notion may be a bit harder to beat, but the sheer volume of integration and users will make it the go-to.
Yeah, the integration / bundling with all other Microsoft 365 products will be hard to beat, especially if you're already working in that ecosystem, which many companies do.
I wouldn’t say they’ve taken down Slack. The *only* reason Teams is so popular is because it’s bundled in 365. Teams is ok. It works but arguably it’s just not as good as Slack. How do we know this? If you’re not using 365, you’re not using Teams. As simple as that. Any company that’s using for example G-Suite instead of 365 (which is still a lot of companies) is going to be using Slack or another app which isn’t Teams. Potentially even Discord or something.
@@jackb7705I’ve spent a lot of time in teams and I can tell you it’s not just a little better than slack, it’s significantly better. MS has been pushing frequent and noticeable updates. The integration across the web and desktop MS apps is fantastic. Slack doesn’t have anywhere near as many features and now that Salesforce owns it, the development will all be going to SF users and integrations. They’re done as a competitor with Teams. If you work for a small company then yes, you get used to seeing a lot of small players, some of it is garbage. Some good.
@@chrispark11 I'm just starting to look at Slack (over Teams) because Slack works cross-organizational and can have guest accounts with non-MS users. Great for working on shared multi-company projects. Also, the security of Admin accounts appears simpler to set up and monitor.
Kevin is the best. My only wonder is with MS. Why do they do things in bits and pieces. Teams is to be the foundation for work. So any new product should automatically fit within the Teams environment.
Great explanation Kevin - love your videos! - Any thoughts on the implication of the fluid file defaulting to a users OneDrive? We have coached our users to use the Me, We, Everyone approach to file sharing (OneDrive, Teams, Sharepoint) - OneDrive is used for sharing with just a couple of people and everything else is stored in Teams or Sharepoint. Loop feels like a great "We" solution, My mind is hurting as I think about content management, document retention and access implications if the default is OneDrive. Thoughts?
I totally agree! Overdrive is a really bad storage location for a collaboration tool. If you rely on this for your project work you will list all the data of the creator leaves the company.
I am excited for this, and I LOVE the idea of keeping everything in my 365 ecosystem. That said, we are HEAVY users of Notion, and MS has a steep hill to climb to reach Notion's feature set. And I'll be honest: we're a year into Notion and there is a LOT of content there...the data gravity of that body of work will be VERY hard to overcome, unless MS creates a way of migrating that content easily...
Thanks man, I was looking for this comment. I didn't well understand all the fuss for Loop. I have been using Notion for about 3 years, and I see no need to use Loop if it's just a premium, more basic (somewhat downgraded) version of Notion. I don't even work in teams, but Notion is awesome to keep hundreds of notes well organized.
Great innovation. Absolutely agree that it's very tough to get people to change. I have tried with juniors and more senior people and it's an uphill struggle. I still get emails about completing spreadsheets emailed to 50 different people globally instead of all of us completing a single SharePoint excel.
"this will change how you work". well. no. it will revolutionise the way i work; and hopefully also allow me to inspire better collaboration in my office (im the youngest in the team, the others are 50+ years old and _used to the olden days of yore_ BUT interested. with positive change management, i could actually see them being happy with this. ATM we are still potty training to not sending a file from our ms teams-channel with outlook.. to people in the same team. i think loop, basically the entire well thought-out MS office eco-system has so much potential. however it can get overwhelming if implemented w/o training or readiness to learn by new recipients (which will be the case in most work areas, Im afraid). so it's up to us o365-fan-folks to check out new available apps and integrations.. and I am grateful to you and your channel, that i can have a sneak-view already. whooo! :) Greetings from Austria
Thank you Kevin. This is a far better way of collaborating with others online. I never paid much attention to that logo in Teams chat. Now I know what it is, I've went to have a nosey. I probably will use something like this in the future.
I have been enjoying your videos - learning about the many office 365 tools I do not know much about. Your videos are a good length, informative, and well explained - Given your Microsoft history - I would love to see you do a video on setting up, managing, and living with 2 different Microsoft accounts (personal and work) including 2 office 365 on one computer. So far I have not seen anything that has helped me yet.
Thanks Kevin for great explanation! I immediately tried out this feature for work and I think this could get big. The only thing I miss is integration in Outlook. I would be awsome if you could se the table not just an I cont you need to click.
I just want to say man, this video has the information but I am unsure how your approach fits modern times. It's a bit slow and the animations seem old. If that's your flare, than roll with it but it may be worth reconsidering
I've never worked for a company that collaborated to this level. At best, we get to express ideas and opinions at a staff meeting while someone takes note of it. After that, you wait for the upper level folks to make the decissions and hand it down. Now and days, I work for myself and I implement sharing tools with clients. It was hard enough for people to trust (onedrive, google drive, dropbox, Icloud or any other cloud) pre covid. Now learning Webcam and screen sharing seems to be the new tolerance level for most people I work with now. I love the innovation, but it will be a while before it changes the way I work.
Adoption of another tool can be a barrier. I work on multiple projects where some collaborators will not use collaboration tools, the irony. One team has only just agreed to use MS Teams after two years of working from home. I’m not kidding.
I don't see Loop being adopted by the Enterprise. The disconnect between what is perceived as live and what is static is so great, users who aren't incredibly savvy will do stupid things like copy-and-pasting the content into spreadsheets and documents like they always do, or wonder why their embedded loop content changed since they last looked at it. It'll be chaos. The old doc-and-file workers will not adapt and productivity will suffer. The executives in charge will opt for the lowest-common-denominator solution and adoption drops to zero. I predict this will be abandonware in a year.
Unfortunately this is pretty common here. I’m so tired of having to use Zoom and then WhatsApp for group/team activities instead of using Teams and all the corresponding office programs altogether. Almost none of my classmates knew you could share and collab with others live on Office apps like you do with Google docs. It’s annoying as hell every time they want to create a WhatsApp group chat just for really small projects that will take no longer than 2 days. Imagine if we all used Teams instead. It would be so much easier to collaborate and even more with Loop. But instead most opt for the most common methods even if they’re way clunkier. Now that I graduated from high school I’m left behind with so many group chats that I haven’t left yet.
@@sediew tried to get my ivy league colleagues to leave Google docs for Microsoft word and SharePoint. It's hard to do because Microsoft shit the bag for such a long time everyone adopted Google docs
That doesn't sound like Microsoft issue. That sounds like a corporate culture issue. Enterprise can make use of this but it has to waterfall down and be pushed as the de facto. Not impossible, just difficult. You have to show the value.
I am sure when computers came people had a lot of complaints about them, slowly everyone adopted to those. Same with google docs slowly people started using those. If workplaces won’t use it now, students will start using it soon and when they start working they will keep using it. Its not gonna be like Microsoft releases it and everyone starts using it immediately there will be a long learning and adapting curve just like any other software.
Kevin, thank you for this introduction. Sounds exciting! I am wondering what happens if we have a loop component in an email, a person replies to the email with feedback and then the table gets updated. Later, reviewing that email, the feedback may not make sense anymore. I guess we need to change the way we work with these components. Does it have a version history that we can track?
I think this is the same challenge we face when a link to a document is shared. The content can change in the document. But now the comments in the email don’t make sense. The main difference with Loop components is that you will see the contents of the Loop embedded and live in the email (once Outlook becomes Loop aware.) Loop does keep versions like other files stored in OneDrive (and SharePoint / Teams). But we can’t yet easily compare them against another version, highlighting changes like in Word or even OneNote. What will be useful is if Loop comments become like Word comments. We will need to be able to highlight content in a Loop and use comments as a conversation in the Loop, about the content. It’s early days for Loop. It has a lot of potential to simplify collaboration and simply make a start with team members in the moment it’s needed.
I support around 500 people and most of them can barely understand what 'have you restarted your PC yet?' means..let alone how to actually do that. This would blow their minds if they actually had one. Thanks anyway Mr Avatar
This is the kind of thing that just needs to be a background service inherently there. Yet another icon with yet another chat feature just confuses people you need less tools not more.
Can I start loop without starting new group? I need to learn it before starting it. Can it work with people outside of the organization? when I connect a group, does the people notify about it and messages I writing? do outside people see other groups?
This is interesting. Any chance this will work between enterprises? We often have issues sharing Teams documents with other companies. If there are similar restrictions, that will be a deal breaker. Thanks for. The video!
Very interesting and certainly full of possibilities. However, it raises the question of quality control in documents upon their release when everybody can modify components so easily from different locations/sources. Is it possible to lock or freeze the content of components at some point?
There is version history, so you can see changes over time. You could also link to a specific version. It's a good question for the team on how you can lock info once it's finalized.
Interesting. Thanks Kevin. Now, does it work cross-organizations? Many of my teams have "guests" which allow them to modify data in a channel, but aren't as fluid as working in the same organization.
No guest support yet. Loop relies on a OneDrive and SharePoint license. Guest don’t have a license. Loop is so new that MS haven’t yet figured out how to give guests ‘grace licenses’ to create, open and collab on Loops. But I expect this will change.
@@DarrellaaS Thank you. I suspected as such. Teams is still working out the guest thing on the desktop client, but it's improving slowly. I'm sure Loop will take time too.
I am very interested in Loop and the potential it has, but more so I am looking for a replacement to Notion that can be integrated into my daily workflow working within O365. It doesn't look like Loop will replace Notion for me.
Great video as always. I like this based on your explanation, as it now makes sense in the MS ecosystem. One challenge is when someone makes a change then there are further amends, but you only want to remove the single change in version history, not all the subsequent amends. Is that possible?
Sadly, you can only roll back to a previous version. Word has a version compare feature. We don’t have anything like that yet in Loop. So it becomes a game of opening a version and checking to see if that’s the one you want to restore.
@@KevinStratvert I wonder if it would be possible for Version History to include a tick box where you might be able to include versions and exclude others. Possibly that's what Review in each app is for though.
As great as this is, people barely even know that it's possible to collaborate in office, let alone something this advanced. Microsoft needs to convey these things to consumers
I agree 1000%. I can never get our leadership or team members to break out of the basic way of using any Microsoft tools and I have tried over and over for a decade.
The only way I can see this taking off is if Microsoft paid employers to let Microsoft train their staff or, more realistically but slower, Microsoft offered schools and colleges free training for pupils/students in how to use the products. Senior management don’t see training in Office as something that is needed. To them Word is just a typewriter, Excel is just maths and PowerPoint is just drawing on transparencies. If people don’t already know how to do that then they don’t get hired. The EU tried to fix this with the European Computer Driving License (ECDL), free at point of delivery training in how to use a PC and an office suite. This was beset by a number of problems, in particular a lack of oversight to confirm that training actually happened (at one time you could be literally stopped in the street by multiple people offering a set of CBT disks and a hastily written manual, sometimes with a money off coupon for a store attached, if you would give your name and address, I still have a box of the CBT disks) and the currency of that training (even those companies that did offer actual training often used massively out of date versions of office (I recently forced one to move off Office 97 to Office 365) or an obscure free package, not even Libreoffice), whilst ECDL has mostly died off now (although you can still find some companies offering it, for a fee) the same problems are being seen Modern Apprenticeships where apprentices are just pointed at a website with out dated tutorials and told to get on with it whilst the training company milks the apprenticeship levy funding. Unfortunately, since a lot of people see using office as something they do at work, a lot of them won’t consider up learning in their own time, if their manager doesn’t put them on the course in work time then they won’t ask for training and certainly won’t do it in their own time.
Even if all this was fixed, it would still require a massive change in cybersecurity stance, and probably the summary execution of most cybersecurity professionals, to eliminate the “That looks useful, better turn it off” attitude so common in the field. If something poses a genuine risk then that risk must be mitigated, but turning off or blocking useful tools and features out of misplaced fear is not on.
Indeed. True story -- I build a Google Sheet that I wanted a co-worker to collaborate on, so I emailed them the link. Rather than putting their bits directly on the Google Sheet, they downloaded the sheet, loaded it into Excel, made their changes in Excel, and then emailed me their updated Excel sheet. Grrr...
This. The regular folks are not 1/10 as excited as people watching this usually are. It basically changes completely the way they should work, and 90% of people are not ready or wanting to do it, which is a deal breaker for a team collaboration tool.
Microsoft would ned to find a way to bridge this gap.
Agree, most users I encounter are still saving their documents as the OLD format of the MS office tools and if it can’t be printed out they aren’t interested. Getting them to use SharePoint or OneDrive is hard enough!
Honestly, as a part time admin of a sharepoint farm that grew to 3TB, creation was never the problem, nor was editing. It almost always came down to confidence of the person to make integrated and not isolated change. Save as instead of save over. It's a nice idea but it'll put the fear of god into people in a business environment where they'll now feel that every word they type, even a rough sketch, is automatically being judged in real time.
No company has been more successful making average users feel afraid of computers.. consistently for 4 decades.
@@mattmotionpix lmao 🤣…. I don’t know why this sent me
Straight up on point
As much as I like this video and the enthusiasm of the person in the video, this loop thing looks not too improved over Microsoft's SharePoint to me. If Microsoft truly wants to transform work, they could start with the loading time of MS 365's Outlook.
Most of my coworkers still don't know how to sign-in to Office online or can't find the App Launcher.
Not surprised… terrible UX and product performance (too many bugs or buggy behavior). This product value is awesome. The experience is terrible.
I wish Microsoft wouldn't restrict access to only those with a work or school Microsoft account / email. They do the same with Power BI. As a 365 subscriber, it feels like those of us who don't work at big organisations are being deliberately sidelined.
Agreed but they also bring
lots of enterprise focused apps to Personal plans. Teams is the most recent example of that I guess. So I am pretty sure Loop will have an Personal version as well. It is just brand new so it will take some time
@@metinhesenov I didn’t realise Teams was now available . Good to know, thanks.
That is how they work. Kill the little guy and make the big folks have more...so they can make us richer. Oh, believe me that is their strategy, like it or not.
@@danquixote6072 Teams is now native to Windows 11 if you upgraded.
Very deliberately, in order to introduce a non-corporate under class. It's the long game.
It seems like the product journey isn't clear and so fragmented with all of these tools. This is why Google Work is used so much, because it is fit for modern collaborative work and not overloaded and pretty clear which tools fulfill each task. The capabilities could have been integrated into OneNote without creating yet another tool. Microsoft really needs to simplify, reduce and focus.
Google deserves more credit with the online collaboration tools. Microsoft just milking on Google's ideas just like grabbing chromium from Google Chrome.
OneNote sync experience is insane bad
Dude, you are spot on. MS does nothing but complicate and create counter intuitive applications.
isn't this exactly what they try to do here? i.e. unifying everything?
@@KaterKarloMawMaw where do tables usually end up? Either in a word document, in an excel spreadsheet, or in a presentation. So why not just collaborate in that application?
The alternative is to create ANOTHER app like Loop over here, that makes previously static elements (sent emails and Teams messages) dynamic in a counterintuitive and utterly unnecessary way.
Thats just my opinion.
Great video and a really cool concept but I’m skeptical as to how a thing like that would be used in real life. It seems a bit overwhelming and I’m already struggling with colleagues who don’t even know how to write comments or use track changes in shared documents. This also seems to be a bit less transparent about who has access to which specific loop elements, which could be problematic if you’re working on something confidential or otherwise sensitive where different team members require access to different bits of information.
Concept is definitely game changing. I'm always skeptical as to how much game changing people are willing to embrace. Looking forward to trying it out.
Today more than ever, people feel change fatigued. We have to work harder to show the value of a feature or product. It has to align with their goals or solve a clear problem. Otherwise it becomes a toy that offers a brief period of amusement, before people return to old habits with current tools.
Lol not a chance.
@@DarrellaaS Yep. So far, game not changed.
@@dansternathac6487 that depends on how many are playing the game. I have introduced hundreds to Loop and used it to “play” with project delivery teams. The game isn’t much fun when you play in your own. While some parts of the game are easy to understand, many haven’t tried playing or seen the value of playing. But features like Collaborative Notes in Teams meetings is helping introduce people to the game.
Loop looks like fancy footwork that, in practice, offers a tiny increment in productivity ... or maybe even diminishes it. ever heard of the saying "too many cooks spoil the broth" ?
The only people that utilize Microsoft work environments, work for Microsoft.
Being an individual contributor, I want to use this to help share meeting notes, but concerned with getting others to use, we shall see.
'Might have noticed some similarities' to Notion. That's an understatement.
Our data and technology expert in our organization has been sharing your videos with us for over two years. I am sorry that I’m just seriously watching them. You have explained Microsoft 365 so wonderfully, and I love your examples that you use with your Kevin cookie company. It makes it so realistic and doable. Thank you for these great instructional videos.
Once again Kevin, thank you.
Your explanation and examples are on point.
Using Loop within an educational environment with department, class and group projects will become a real game changer.
Talk about expanding possibilities!
I can see Loop being very helpful to my team. However, I started a loop in Teams chat to test it out and added one of my colleagues. It tells me "You need to add at least two people to start a group chat." That is a stumbling block for a small organization. Our projects get started with one or two people and then a larger team is developed as needed.
hey at least it didn't say "you have performed an illegal operation"
@@DigitalDependance burn a license that you have to pay ?
You can use Loop components in a one to one chat - you don't need to create a chat group.
Thanks for keeping us in the 'loop'!
😂
Based on the thread that delta started, I agree with the comments raised about buy-in. I consider myself to be progressive in regards to tech and software, but I don't think I would use loop unless my company demanded it from me. Why? Because the entire software ecosystem would have to change so that ALL are using it.
My suggestion for making it happen isn't to offer more training, or even mandates. Instead, I would have the software itself mandate its use. How you ask? By popping up a guided set of questions, like "I see you are starting a chat in Teams. Do you want a table or a chat thread? Table! OK, now, how many columns? Three! OK. How many rows? Four! Here's your table. Now, who might possibly be involved in the future with your table? (Loop presents a list of possible names and depending on your selection, it automatically sends emails inviting them in)
Anyway, after the system "trains" you in how it is supposed to work, you can turn it off.
I think most people want to use better tools, but changing the mind is tough by just offering more training. Change the current paradigms and expectations and people will change.
Loop has a long way to go before it can compete with Notion. For a start it needs to be available to all Microsoft 365 users: I cannot understand the justification for leaving all those paid subscribers "out of the loop" (ouch!). Secondly, I foresee real problems in people being able to edit each others work on the fly - the integrity of concepts will suffer in all sorts of ways. Shared responsibility is a wonderful ethic in the workplace so long as training has embedded shared leadership into the training and induction programme; unfortunately in too many organisations shared responsibility results in no-one accepting personal responsibility. If this is how the Microsoft organisation generate their projects, it explains a lot about the company's legendary glitches!
Thank you Kevin I was wondering from a long time what Microsoft loop is thank you for explaining it!!!!!!
Great video. As a window washer, this definitely doesn't actually change the way I work.
Great video, Kevin! I think Loop looks interesting and going to try and incorporate it into some projects I'm working on. I really like the integration with Outlook and OneNote too!
I guess my only worry is that as the components are stored in the person who starts the Loops' OneDrive - what happens if that person leaves the company? The access to this Loop will be gone would be my guess which wouldn't be ideal if you are mid-project and have a large-ish Loop a lot of folks are collaborating on.
So I work in IT, and we'd probably just hand that onedrive folder over to someone else. A lot of companies will already archive your data when you leave, for liability sake (like if someone has the only copy of an important contract and we don't find out until they've left)
自從有Loop消息至今２年了，
期待快快上市，
並且有繁體中文版
（目前就連Notion都沒有中文）
能重視華人的亞洲市場！
Looks great, one of our managers attempted to do project management via Teams, should have worked, but a senior user refuses to use teams and only uses email with all the issues relating to out of date files, hopefully this will fix this sort of issue.
Is it an acceptable option to email the link to the Loop page? That will be like a live Word document. The senior user can open the Loop in browser just like Office online and see the most up to date activity in the Loop.
I left the IT industry before all this real-time doc sharing became popular to push out by big tech. Will it catch on? In my time most people preferred to work on docs in their own time. Then distribute the doc for comments. This way you had time to think the content through and get it right the first time. Not sure people having access to change my doc on the fly will make for a considered piece of work.
This is how people solved this problem in google docs (where co-editor existed for a long time):
Limit the editors to a very small group (3-5).
All thd other collaborators do not get edit permission but only comment permission.
Any of the editors can review the comments and decide what changes to include.
This allow to hundle hundreds of collaborators. Like 200+.
This works well in google docs because comments are attached to specific location in the document but can also be seen cronologically.
From what I remeber word does allow to review comments but only in the order of their ancor. Not sure if that is good enough. Also I'm not sure viewing comment in sequence is supported in other office app.
I don't know if office permission allow comment only permission. Google docs didn't when they started.
This guy has a clean video and communicates clearly
Loop is a great tool for online teaching with MS Teams. My students really enjoy using it to review and practice structures for writing topics and vocabulary activities. Having an open format means students can peer check and correct each other, and I can also see who participated in the activity during and after the session. It works really smoothly on a mobile device, I am planning to use it for in-person classes in this way in the future so we work live on an activity, it's really motivating for students to see the results of their collaboration. So much better than Whiteboard, which often doesn't work well for students on slow networks or on a small screen. It would be great to have this available in Zoom in the future.
The intro got me really excited. Loop is surely gonna change how people work. Amazing thumbnail!
Thank you, Kevin! We are so excited about Loop, and it has already made a huge positive impact on our collaboration both internally and externally. My Team has learned so much from your content!
Great , This is the only RUclips channel that teaches me USEFUL new things every week.
that was a rather longer explanations than I expected. but I got the info I needed. just need the day I get access to this app. thanks a lot!
Yes. This will transform the way we work. I’ve been following Fluid/Loop for some time. I’ve wondered how it will turn out & how we could use it. Should we use it? Your tutorial answers, yes. Thanks for explaining objects v. pages v. workspaces. I can see our company making use of all 3.
Get familiar with taking notes together in a 1:1 chat. It’s the quickest way to see value. Then invite others to the chat and share the Loop as your ideas grow and take shape.
I'm looking forward to trying Loop and comparing it to Notion. As long I have never have to work with another OneNote table ever again.
thank you for a detailed coverage in a relatively short video
Microsoft is doing a great job with these new impressive features
Thank you sir for this valuable information that has been hiding in my plain sight. Although you are the second person I have watched present information on Microsoft Loop; the first person left me, well, in a loop, as to what Loop was. Thank you so much for the clarity and wishing you well as your channel continues to grow. God bless
Notions strength are the relational databases. You didn´t mentioned this. How does this work on Loop? Microsoft Lists?
Holy cow, that looks awesome! I wonder how it integrates with Excel? Can I use Power Query to pull data from Loop components or get an Excel Table in my workbook to live sync with Loop tables? That would be epic!
That would be really interesting, hope so!
I hope to see Office applications re-engineered to be based on the Fluid framework that Loop uses. Then it would be easy to share pieces of a worksheet or Word doc, and update them from Outlook, Teams and other Loop-aware apps.
@@DarrellaaS sounds awesome as long as they don’t take away VBA!
The best explanation so far with examples
Notion is awesome and I expect Microsoft to take notion down much like they did with Slack. Slack seemed like the king at one time and now Teams blows it out of the water. Notion may be a bit harder to beat, but the sheer volume of integration and users will make it the go-to.
Yeah, the integration / bundling with all other Microsoft 365 products will be hard to beat, especially if you're already working in that ecosystem, which many companies do.
I wouldn’t say they’ve taken down Slack. The *only* reason Teams is so popular is because it’s bundled in 365. Teams is ok. It works but arguably it’s just not as good as Slack. How do we know this? If you’re not using 365, you’re not using Teams. As simple as that. Any company that’s using for example G-Suite instead of 365 (which is still a lot of companies) is going to be using Slack or another app which isn’t Teams. Potentially even Discord or something.
@@jackb7705I’ve spent a lot of time in teams and I can tell you it’s not just a little better than slack, it’s significantly better. MS has been pushing frequent and noticeable updates. The integration across the web and desktop MS apps is fantastic. Slack doesn’t have anywhere near as many features and now that Salesforce owns it, the development will all be going to SF users and integrations. They’re done as a competitor with Teams. If you work for a small company then yes, you get used to seeing a lot of small players, some of it is garbage. Some good.
@@chrispark11 I'm just starting to look at Slack (over Teams) because Slack works cross-organizational and can have guest accounts with non-MS users. Great for working on shared multi-company projects. Also, the security of Admin accounts appears simpler to set up and monitor.
Kevin is the best. My only wonder is with MS. Why do they do things in bits and pieces. Teams is to be the foundation for work. So any new product should automatically fit within the Teams environment.
Great explanation Kevin - love your videos! - Any thoughts on the implication of the fluid file defaulting to a users OneDrive? We have coached our users to use the Me, We, Everyone approach to file sharing (OneDrive, Teams, Sharepoint) - OneDrive is used for sharing with just a couple of people and everything else is stored in Teams or Sharepoint. Loop feels like a great "We" solution, My mind is hurting as I think about content management, document retention and access implications if the default is OneDrive. Thoughts?
I totally agree! Overdrive is a really bad storage location for a collaboration tool. If you rely on this for your project work you will list all the data of the creator leaves the company.
I am excited for this, and I LOVE the idea of keeping everything in my 365 ecosystem. That said, we are HEAVY users of Notion, and MS has a steep hill to climb to reach Notion's feature set. And I'll be honest: we're a year into Notion and there is a LOT of content there...the data gravity of that body of work will be VERY hard to overcome, unless MS creates a way of migrating that content easily...
While I prefer Google Apps, my work environment is in the MS365 ecosystem. And I agree, having everything in one environment makes things much easier.
"Data gravity". Cool!
Thanks man, I was looking for this comment. I didn't well understand all the fuss for Loop. I have been using Notion for about 3 years, and I see no need to use Loop if it's just a premium, more basic (somewhat downgraded) version of Notion. I don't even work in teams, but Notion is awesome to keep hundreds of notes well organized.
Love the short snappy video! :)
For some reason the video started around the second half as if I’ve watched it. Is this a re-upload by any chance? Anyway, great info as always!
Great innovation. Absolutely agree that it's very tough to get people to change. I have tried with juniors and more senior people and it's an uphill struggle. I still get emails about completing spreadsheets emailed to 50 different people globally instead of all of us completing a single SharePoint excel.
I literally had to set it as a rule that no one is allowed to email or share a file. only links. really cut down on the versioning issue
"this will change how you work". well. no. it will revolutionise the way i work; and hopefully also allow me to inspire better collaboration in my office (im the youngest in the team, the others are 50+ years old and _used to the olden days of yore_ BUT interested. with positive change management, i could actually see them being happy with this. ATM we are still potty training to not sending a file from our ms teams-channel with outlook.. to people in the same team.
i think loop, basically the entire well thought-out MS office eco-system has so much potential. however it can get overwhelming if implemented w/o training or readiness to learn by new recipients (which will be the case in most work areas, Im afraid). so it's up to us o365-fan-folks to check out new available apps and integrations.. and I am grateful to you and your channel, that i can have a sneak-view already. whooo! :) Greetings from Austria
I will use Loop for Sure. Thanks for the clear definitions and use cases, Kevin. Great work, as always.
Thank you Kevin. This is a far better way of collaborating with others online. I never paid much attention to that logo in Teams chat. Now I know what it is, I've went to have a nosey. I probably will use something like this in the future.
I have been enjoying your videos - learning about the many office 365 tools I do not know much about. Your videos are a good length, informative, and well explained - Given your Microsoft history - I would love to see you do a video on setting up, managing, and living with 2 different Microsoft accounts (personal and work) including 2 office 365 on one computer. So far I have not seen anything that has helped me yet.
Your explanation is the best!
I have not gotten the idea thoroughly yet. But knowing Microsoft it will be a great tool 😊
Keep me in the LOOP! Wonderful concept, I truly wish I had a group to Team with. Excellent, keep this up, keep telling the public,
With respect, Neil.
Thanks for sharing Kevin
This is going to change the way we all work - bring it on, thanks for sharing Kevin.
Thanks Kevin for great explanation! I immediately tried out this feature for work and I think this could get big. The only thing I miss is integration in Outlook. I would be awsome if you could se the table not just an I cont you need to click.
Yeah, it's coming to Outlook soon. Agreed that the value goes up considerably once it starts lighting up in all these different places.
I just want to say man, this video has the information but I am unsure how your approach fits modern times. It's a bit slow and the animations seem old. If that's your flare, than roll with it but it may be worth reconsidering
I've never worked for a company that collaborated to this level. At best, we get to express ideas and opinions at a staff meeting while someone takes note of it. After that, you wait for the upper level folks to make the decissions and hand it down.
Now and days, I work for myself and I implement sharing tools with clients. It was hard enough for people to trust (onedrive, google drive, dropbox, Icloud or any other cloud) pre covid. Now learning Webcam and screen sharing seems to be the new tolerance level for most people I work with now.
I love the innovation, but it will be a while before it changes the way I work.
Wondering when GCC will be able to use it!
0:00 - Hi Kevin. 👋 13:10 - Thumbs up from me to the awe-inspiring video for sure. 👍 Cheers.
Awesome, thank you!
Adoption of another tool can be a barrier. I work on multiple projects where some collaborators will not use collaboration tools, the irony.
One team has only just agreed to use MS Teams after two years of working from home. I’m not kidding.
jesus christ, your videos are thoroughly perfect. Dont say that often but your youtubechannel is a masterpiece. Keep up the good work!
I wish it would hurry up and be out already! It looks great! :)
Lovely presentation!
I don't see Loop being adopted by the Enterprise. The disconnect between what is perceived as live and what is static is so great, users who aren't incredibly savvy will do stupid things like copy-and-pasting the content into spreadsheets and documents like they always do, or wonder why their embedded loop content changed since they last looked at it. It'll be chaos. The old doc-and-file workers will not adapt and productivity will suffer. The executives in charge will opt for the lowest-common-denominator solution and adoption drops to zero. I predict this will be abandonware in a year.
Nailed it.
Unfortunately this is pretty common here. I’m so tired of having to use Zoom and then WhatsApp for group/team activities instead of using Teams and all the corresponding office programs altogether. Almost none of my classmates knew you could share and collab with others live on Office apps like you do with Google docs.
It’s annoying as hell every time they want to create a WhatsApp group chat just for really small projects that will take no longer than 2 days. Imagine if we all used Teams instead. It would be so much easier to collaborate and even more with Loop. But instead most opt for the most common methods even if they’re way clunkier.
Now that I graduated from high school I’m left behind with so many group chats that I haven’t left yet.
@@sediew tried to get my ivy league colleagues to leave Google docs for Microsoft word and SharePoint. It's hard to do because Microsoft shit the bag for such a long time everyone adopted Google docs
That doesn't sound like Microsoft issue. That sounds like a corporate culture issue.
Enterprise can make use of this but it has to waterfall down and be pushed as the de facto. Not impossible, just difficult. You have to show the value.
I am sure when computers came people had a lot of complaints about them, slowly everyone adopted to those. Same with google docs slowly people started using those. If workplaces won’t use it now, students will start using it soon and when they start working they will keep using it. Its not gonna be like Microsoft releases it and everyone starts using it immediately there will be a long learning and adapting curve just like any other software.
This is mind blowing! Hopefully I can start a grassroot movement within the organization.
Looks more useful than Notion to me. If I can access it I’ll use it for organizing a meeting today
Wasn’t able to find it 🤷🏽♂️
100%, I already love using Notion, this will be a huge improvement, integrated into the MS environment.
Another great video Kevin, thanks for uploading - Tom
Kevin, thank you for this introduction. Sounds exciting!
I am wondering what happens if we have a loop component in an email, a person replies to the email with feedback and then the table gets updated.
Later, reviewing that email, the feedback may not make sense anymore.
I guess we need to change the way we work with these components. Does it have a version history that we can track?
I think this is the same challenge we face when a link to a document is shared. The content can change in the document. But now the comments in the email don’t make sense.
The main difference with Loop components is that you will see the contents of the Loop embedded and live in the email (once Outlook becomes Loop aware.)
Loop does keep versions like other files stored in OneDrive (and SharePoint / Teams). But we can’t yet easily compare them against another version, highlighting changes like in Word or even OneNote.
What will be useful is if Loop comments become like Word comments. We will need to be able to highlight content in a Loop and use comments as a conversation in the Loop, about the content. It’s early days for Loop. It has a lot of potential to simplify collaboration and simply make a start with team members in the moment it’s needed.
Holy cow that video was well done! Liked and subscribed - and you can bet I'll be watching more of your extremely well done videos. Thank you.
Hey, I just want to say that I appreciate your teaching. Thanks for all
Woah, so exciting!! How did you ping Loop on your computer tasks bar tho?
Great connectivity👍thanks for sharing.
I support around 500 people and most of them can barely understand what 'have you restarted your PC yet?' means..let alone how to actually do that. This would blow their minds if they actually had one. Thanks anyway Mr Avatar
This looks incredible! Do you think there is a remote chance GCC tenants would get this in 2022?
This is the kind of thing that just needs to be a background service inherently there. Yet another icon with yet another chat feature just confuses people you need less tools not more.
Insane fast in comparison into the insane slow sync from OneNote is over! Did How it handles edit conflicts?
Can I start loop without starting new group? I need to learn it before starting it. Can it work with people outside of the organization? when I connect a group, does the people notify about it and messages I writing? do outside people see other groups?
Nice work Diego 😂 I am subscribing just based on the wry comedy. Thanks mate, it made me laugh.
Cool! I was thinking about how can I use the loop. Thank you
Microsoft's document governance is another benefit.
Loop looks very exciting, and it looks great even for personal usage! When will I be able to use the Loop app?
big fan ,love from INDIA😌
Wow! Awesome program! Thanks for sharing!
Glad you liked it!
Nicely done! Regards from Baltimore.
Very informative. An interesting platform with unique features.
This is awesome. I dont see this coming to GCCH/DoD anytime soon though which is a good thing haha. Thanks Kevin amazing work!
Still using window 95 eh?
@@donmcgimpsey1706 The government space is pretty archaic not 95 but might as well be haha
Thank you Kevin!! It looks very useful!!!
You bet!
So great Kevin! Thank you again for a super tutorial
This is interesting. Any chance this will work between enterprises? We often have issues sharing Teams documents with other companies. If there are similar restrictions, that will be a deal breaker.
Thanks for. The video!
Very interesting and certainly full of possibilities. However, it raises the question of quality control in documents upon their release when everybody can modify components so easily from different locations/sources. Is it possible to lock or freeze the content of components at some point?
There is version history, so you can see changes over time. You could also link to a specific version. It's a good question for the team on how you can lock info once it's finalized.
Exciting!!!
Thanks Kelvin.
Always delivering the best
Awesome! I'm wondering why MS didn't use "loop" as the file extension name instead of "fluid"?
The underlying framework is called Fluid. You can find out more here: fluidframework.com
Because they where bored by looping. So they made it fluid to attract people. (Joking)
Great tease for what's to come. I enjoy the way your present and explain features. Well done!
Interesting. Thanks Kevin. Now, does it work cross-organizations? Many of my teams have "guests" which allow them to modify data in a channel, but aren't as fluid as working in the same organization.
No guest support yet. Loop relies on a OneDrive and SharePoint license. Guest don’t have a license. Loop is so new that MS haven’t yet figured out how to give guests ‘grace licenses’ to create, open and collab on Loops. But I expect this will change.
@@DarrellaaS Thank you. I suspected as such. Teams is still working out the guest thing on the desktop client, but it's improving slowly. I'm sure Loop will take time too.
Good content! But can we just take a moment to admire Kevin's calming voice?
Thank you, your video had just what i needed
I am very interested in Loop and the potential it has, but more so I am looking for a replacement to Notion that can be integrated into my daily workflow working within O365. It doesn't look like Loop will replace Notion for me.
so excited for the next features, lookin amazing 😀
Great video as always. I like this based on your explanation, as it now makes sense in the MS ecosystem. One challenge is when someone makes a change then there are further amends, but you only want to remove the single change in version history, not all the subsequent amends. Is that possible?
That's a good question. The same problem exists with Word, Excel, and PowerPoint when collaborating too.
Sadly, you can only roll back to a previous version. Word has a version compare feature. We don’t have anything like that yet in Loop. So it becomes a game of opening a version and checking to see if that’s the one you want to restore.
@@KevinStratvert I wonder if it would be possible for Version History to include a tick box where you might be able to include versions and exclude others. Possibly that's what Review in each app is for though.