The Talos Principle 2 is BETTER than 1. Here's Why
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- Опубликовано: 2 июл 2024
- It took Croteam 9 years to make a follow-up to the groundbreaking The Talos Principle. Here's why they've created the perfect sequel.
0:00 Intro
1:12 Puzzle Difficulty
3:49 Talos 2 Improvements
6:26 The Writing
7:24 Talos 2 Improvements
10:00 Development Differences
13:21 Conclusion/Future?
Thanks to Devolver Digital for the review code!
Music: The Talos Principle 2 OST. All rights to Croteam and Devolver Digital.
Sources:
screenrant.com/talos-principl...
• Exclusive Interview: T...
• PlayStation E3 Press C... 1:12:20
venturebeat.com/2014/11/04/th...
www.gamasutra.com/view/news/25...
checkpointgaming.net/features...
www.ilvideogiocatore.it/2023/...
Description:
Croteam's The Talos Principle was a groundbreaking puzzle game that left gamers craving for more. After a long nine-year wait, The Talos Principle 2 has finally arrived, and it doesn't disappoint. In this review, we explore how The Talos Principle 2 not only lives up to its predecessor but also takes the franchise to new heights.
Discover the brilliant puzzle design that makes The Talos Principle 2 accessible to all players, with a carefully crafted difficulty curve that ensures an engaging experience from start to finish. Say goodbye to the frustrations of the The Talos Principle's challenging late-stage puzzles, thanks to a more player-friendly approach in the sequel.
Explore the vast world of The Talos Principle 2, where each hub world offers a plethora of puzzles, side stories, and even hidden challenges. The Talos Principle 2 is bigger than ever, with 132 main puzzles and numerous bonus puzzles to solve. Every puzzle you complete affects The Talos Principle 2 captivating narrative, which has been enhanced with a more immersive and interactive storytelling approach.
Delve into the narrative of The Talos Principle 2, where you're not alone anymore. Meet a cast of well-developed characters, engage in dialogue trees, and uncover the hidden agendas of the game's inhabitants. Discover the philosophical questions that The Talos Principle 2 poses, providing a thought-provoking experience that goes beyond just solving puzzles.
Learn about the evolution of Croteam's approach to game design, which resulted in a seamless integration of puzzle gameplay and storytelling in The Talos Principle 2, setting it apart from the original The Talos Principle. We end with discussing the potential for a Talos Principle 3. 
Игры
I'm 73 and just finished The Talos Principle 2. I loved The Talos Principle and had hoped Croteam would create another game. I can only hope they will release the final game before I'm too old to play. I love both of these games. They give me everything I want in a game. The puzzles are excellent and often challenging. The storyline is wonderful and keeps me thinking long after I'm done playing. Both my adult sons tell me that I should be on RUclips showing others how to play the original. Maybe one day. Perhaps one day I will do that, but right now I hold onto the personal relationship I have with the games.
The Talos Principle 2 is a treat. I believe it will be the game of the year. What a marvelous creation!
That so cool! I hope they'll get to make Talos 3 one day too. If you're looking for something to play in the meantime, try out The Witness. The story isn't great but it evokes a similar atmosphere as the original Talos and the puzzles are excellent.
I will be 73 in April. While I love TTP1, I don't have the system requirements to play TTP2. Maybe someday. I got my oldest son to play TTP1 and he loved it. He also got TTP2 and is loving that too.
I hope too you can play the next game if they do another!! Take care sir, happy to read your comment and your love I share with you :)
Philosophy games are lost on youth, but I think that the talos principle series will live on well beyond our days. A true labor of love.
@@fathercadiI played the first one when I was very young, I often got scared at the isolation and god-like character the world had 🧌 but yes I didn’t understand any of it
I hadn't even been made aware Talos even got a sequel, but it's great to see it! I remember enjoying the first one, so I might check this one out, great video!
Thank you, it's definitely worth it!
Just do it. It's great ❤
I finished TTP2 yesterday, and I absolutely LOVED it, it's such an amazing game and it is definitely better in many ways than the first game.
But I have to disagree on the writing part though, I think the first game has more thought provoking, brain cracking and overal more interesting writing/story to it, especially when interacting with the Milton Library Assistant, so even though I would say TTP2 has good writing, it's definitely a good story and loads of little thought provoking moments, I do believe they did a better job of that in the first game.
Again though, other than that, TTP2 definitely improved on many levels, it's an amazingly good game imo and am fully aware that it's very hard to create a good sequel to such a good original, even improve on many aspects, Croteam has done very well and should be proud of themselves.
That aside, great review, good video, I liked it, keep it up!
Personally, I prefer the writing and story of 2, but either way, I think 1 and 2 have their own strengths. 2 did such a good job of making its world feel alive! The characters feel human and the choices and optional stuff go a long way to making your experience of the story your own. 1 was more straight-up with the philosophy and... text-based arguments?... I still kinda hate Milton and Elohim, but it's not like that was accidental. I don't think I'll ever see another game where reading text and answering questions feels so engrossing and oddly interactive.
I agree that interacting with the MLA in TTP1 was a treat and exceptionally well done. I think the interactions with Pandora and the Sphinx in TTP2 were similarly delightful, though. The one thing I consistently preferred in TTP1 over TTP2 was the music.
The first The Talos Principle is best game ever made and now i think it's the second part that took it's place. That's why i love Croteam; they make a game, they vanish with no news or anything at all, suddenly they wake up and create yet another masterpiece. Honestly? I think this is exactly how game dev companies must do.
Played it for 7 hours and absolutely love it, just can't recommend it enough - I am spamming my friends with screenshots because of how beautiful the game is.
Yeah, especially the ray tracing is stunning
@@indiegameoasis If you have a ray tracing GPU it probably is, lol.
Can't wait to play this. First one was absolutely the best puzzle game I ever played. Great review.
Same, I was so glad to see that Talos 2 lives up to the original!
Elohim speaks, and I listen.
This game is in its own league. A masterpiece. Thanks to all involved. Do not rush the next part, take your time, 10 years or more if you have to, please.
I've finished Talos 2 and keep searching for other people's perspectives, and this video might be the most informative I've seen on Talos 2 AND 1.
my understanding had been that the Talos 1 story came along late, but that was clearly not the full series of events.
a Croteam dev recruiting Jubert because of Swapper, _and then_ Jubert recruiting Kyratzes because of a tiny game I thought almost nobody else played?? amazing.
and this is the first I've heard that Kyratzes has written up a Talos 3 (gosh I can hardly imagine how that would go). I did hear noncommittal noises about DLC puzzles for Talos 2.
I'm glad you did this research and presented it so fluidly.
Absolutely fantastic review. Had my hair standing on end on multiple occasions in excitement for playing it myself. I'm going to buy the game now even though I don't have a PS5 yet, just to support the devs and do my bit towards making part 3 happen. Thanks so much for the background detail about how the games were developed, super interesting and brings the human element into the abstract world of games.
Yes, I hope they'll get the chance to finish the trilogy!
Works on pc too.
Such an incredible first game and sequel. This is definitely a must-play series for everyone.
Couldn't agree more!
Let's not forget to mention the fantastic work put into the sound design of the game! Sometimes the ambiance and the gentle music put me in an almost meditative state.
Yes! The music is fantastic!
Why does this video have only 150 views??
i thought i clicked on a video from someone who gets i million views per video regularly.
Thanks for the kind words :D
It's great but i still prefere 1, the puzzles were harder, and the stars were more fun and interesting to get! That and talos 2 made the areas way too big, it wasn't fun to explore them
the new mechanic were great though, and i can't wait for an hard DLC that will mix all of them
1 was more hardcore in terms of puzzles, it could have been the sequel in terms of difficulty, maybe because it advanced techniques with the fewer tools it had. Every new tool means more tutorial missions.
*scour the map for a switch hidden behind a wall, x100*
damn, those talos 1 stars sure were "interesting", yup yup
and about half of the ones in 2 fall under the same umbrella
I don't think that the puzzles were harder. If you have played TT2 without playing the first one, you would have cracked your butt. The first game developed your brain and prepared for the second, which seemed easier because you didn't have absolutely new sensations, and the previous experience helped a lot.
same, i dont think i struggled long enough on any puzzle at all and only unlocked the "20 minute" achievement due to being afk towards the end of the game. Also I miss the mandatory smuggling of items to solve secret puzzles, all of the "environment" puzzles in this game can be done without smuggling at all (although you do need to divert power from inside the puzzles to outside). These puzzles are definitely decently hard but mainly due to requiring very precise long range laser placements or finding that one tool in the grand map.
i can only agree. i played through the whole of talos 2 and the puzzles struggle to get out of beginner difficulty which is a bit boring. The features introcuded at each stage are also never really combined but rather forgotten for the most part in the next stage. Plus the areas really are way to big. I think i spent more time walking around in talos 2 than actually solving puzzles.
Furthermore i think the story was also a step down. It was way less interactive and kinda dull. In talos 1 you also had the possibility to ignore the story whereas you get forced to experience big parts of the story in talos 2.
So in overall i can't recommend talos 2.
I've finished the game and I was looking for other endings then I saw your video. It's a great review and really fits what I had in my mind. Now I checked and still checking your other videos and I think I just found a new great channel. Right now I'm watching other videos and will comment to them as well. Keep up the great work.
I checked 3 reviews - no one is complaining about the missing Recorder?! The best eureka moment I had while playing TP1 was understanding the Recorder - a totally mindblowing experience...but they decided to remove it in TP2?! What's the reason? Some found it frustrating to use their brains?
True there are new clever ideas - but if ever there's going to be a TP3 they at Croateam should bring back the Recorder!!
I also loved the recorder. I loved that it fit with the story theme of trying to collaborate with people of the future. I loved the "pause" time where you would at first be bored but then start using it to simulate your clone in your head. And I loved how that just opens up window of your own thoughts about thinking.
But it was really frustrating to many people. Even people that were good at solving the puzzles generally found the mechanic unsatisfying. I think the warp clones in the new game are a good spin on it. They still go with the theme of cooperating and think through what other people will do. But they are much less frustrating. They don't quite capture the insights of the recorder but its still a good mechanic.
The way I understood the recorder is very simple - just think of doubling every tool at your disposal (and yourself too) for a limited time (up to 5 minutes). It's great once you get it and provide a quicker solution and it makes a fantastic talking point too. You are right the clone in TP2 come close but not quite. I'm sure the recorder is coming back - or at least they should offer multiple options (e.g. with the recorder and without).
This comes from a recorder hater I suppose? You say you understood the solution with the recorder but completing it was an headache? There is a very quick test to verify if you really understood the Recorder...from what you wrote I guess you didn't because once you understand it the "completion" of the solution should come very quickly. If I understood your point I believe other types of puzzles like e.g. Labyrinth (proper arcade) or chasing the blue sparks are exactly what you try to describe. The Labyrinth was a real pita because I had the solution in my pocket from the start but I was struggling because I don't have a proper game controller - and then I had to repeat the same bore over and over again...nothing to learn in terms of new concepts just manual ability. The blue sparks and other similar are very little about new ideas or logic and just exploring...(and sometimes completing them takes ages).
@@user-hp3mu1lu3i Yea this was an issue. There was actually hidden time speed up mechanic in the game that would let you bipass this. Although I think even in the worst cases these puzzles never took more than a few minutes to solve. I think the bigger issue is you would think you had the solution but had made some small mistake but would not realize it until the end of the recording stage. Then you would end up going through cycles of recording, waiting on the recorder doing nothing to give your real self time to solve, trying to solve with the real version of yourself, failing and repeating. Over time you would get better at spending that waiting on the recorder thinking through the solution carefully to make sure you really had it. But it was often frustrating. Especially not knowing how long you would need to give your "real" self time to work on things while the cloned items still existed.
Actually the more I think about the teleportation and clones in talos 2 are not really the replacement mecahnic. The swap stations are actually more analagous. They are a different mechanic that makes you have to think ahead to what will happen in the future in the puzzle. The clones in 2 still mostly only have you think one step ahead.
There is an interview with Croteam on the Thinky Games channel, where they talk about this decision. It was partially a difficulty, but the main reason was that a lot of the time, people have figured out what they wanted to do, but had to wait a long time to try it out. It resulted in a lot of downtime, and, by extension, boredom.
Excellent review for an incredible game, thank you. I hope we get a Gehenna style DLC with more puzzles!
A DLC has been confirmed!
Or even better, a level editor.
It's not more challenging but definitely more accessible
I do have to disagree on the puzzle difficulty somewhat, because Talos 2 never gets difficult, not like the first game. Even the gold puzzles are fairly straightforward and never gave me anywhere near as much trouble as the harder puzzles in Talos 1.
The star puzzles in each level are a joke. They come in one of three varieties: "Find blue flame and chase it around a map" (not a puzzle), "Find the correct switches based on clues (Usually you straight up have a map telling you exactly where to go) and "Find a way to connect the correct beam to a statue (These are the only ones that actually require you to think, but some of the later ones practically become pixel hunts in there ginormous maps).
I did really enjoy Talos 2, but I found the challenge wanting.
I don't think they could have done the same type of start puzzles as one. The whole idea of the star puzzles in one is that it was a form of breaking the game. They were not just hard puzzles they encouraged you to do what hackers and play testers do. Look for edge cases in the game. In this case the developers anticipated them and gave you rewards for finding them.
But once you knew the edge cases the puzzles quickly become less fun and would not be fun to do again.
But your right the new star puzzles kinda suck. I honestly don't know what I would put in there place though. Making more puzzles like those in the first game isn't the right solution though.
I agree with you, the puzzles never really got hard and the star puzzles weren't real puzzles anyhow. I also think the companions just wandering around were useless and kinda annoying. Also what was with the labs. Quite boring, too.
True. Talos 1 had some nightmare of a puzzle. Specially with the more frustrating mechanics like the walking mines.
Though I will say I see it kinda as a plus, normally the hard puzzles in 2 is just one very clever trick that you have to think a bit to get it, and ur done with the puzzle. Talos 1 had puzzles that got me stuck for hours on end and I STILL couldn't solve, eventually just looking it up. Considering the amount of puzzles I think it fits well. It also gives more space and time for the story and philosophy of the game
They truly didn’t raise the difficulty enough with each new mechanic, which is pretty disappointing when starting over from E1 for golden ones. But assuming a new TTP player who didn’t experienced TTP1 and rushed straightforward to TTP2 it might be good for the rookie to have a chance to re-enjoy previous mechanics without putting too much effort to recall how to master all those skills after finishing the first main play through. In the mean time the utopia&dystopia part gives me some TTP1 type of puzzle vibe somehow, two worlds interacting, incredible emitter use, et c. , among which the second part of utopia stands out the most and I just can’t be more excited when I go through that anti-gravity tunnel and find previous laser beam from a flipped and long-distant perspective. Actually this ending puzzle might justify the Pandora stars that asked for strange and hard-to-find laser beam across the huge map a bit but overall the negative influence of running across 12 different worlds just disgust us more than the fun it would pay back. Hope there is a DLC that both allows to return New Jerusalem after completion of the game and brings some new challenging puzzles mixing all those features TTP2 has in grasp like they did in Gehenna.
I quite like some of the mild puzzles that take 30 minutes to solve at most. I don't think all of them were too easy to the point of being boring or predictable.
The ideal puzzle for me, is short but sweet, it has few steps but is still difficult/interesting, and TP2 met that mark for what feels like at least 50-65% of the puzzles.
My Interest drops off the more puzzle pieces and sections there are for the same puzzle.
It took me many evenings to go through TP 2. The story is fascinating and gives food for thought, while you are mesmerized by lovely landscapes of the game. It really amused me how creators chose different obstacle types to limit game maps😆More people should know about this wonderful game.
I'll throw in my 2 cents of opinion here: I think Talos 1 is better than 2 because of some factors.
1. The puzzles in talos 2 are much shorter, and although I agree with the video on this subject (that they are accessible), I don't think its better than talos 1. Talos 1's puzzles needed a lot more thinking and they were longer yet rewarding to solve. In 2, I entered puzzles and left them in 2 minutes of solving.
2. The story is cool in talos 2, but it feels like a movie. Idk how to explain, but I like the narrator style more than this.
3. The graphics. Because they switched to Unreal 5, some things looks bad at a distance if your computer isn't high-end. I often dont notice metal fences because of Anti-Aliasing. That goes for far away Connectors too. The first game is sharper and has a better contrast with their old engine, it also has a unique vibe, just like source games have, if you know what I mean.
4. The out of the box puzzles to get stars are much more interesting in talos 1. Even tho I had to look it up how to get them, cause I'm not smart, they are way more clever and funny than a holding-hand hint to get the star in talos 2.
5. The ending puzzle, being the only one that is long, is so frustrating. I managed to get it in one try, that took 1 friking hour. I even saw a bug where a connector would disconnect when I went to the other side.
6. The Rewind mechanic is not present, which is a shame. If I could, I would trade it for the Pedestal mechanic from talos 2, which I dont like. Also, the gun and the bomb balls arent present too. I liked them a lot.
7. Some details that make the first one unique arent here. I miss them. When you lose a puzzle, it would "rewind" with a cool effect. And when you want to manually restart, the player raises the hand and hold the button in an animation. In talos 2, its just a progress bar and a cut to a loading screen.
8. One thing I liked a lot is removing the sigils puzzles and replacing them with the bridge puzzles. These are way more fun.
9. Last thing. The maps didnt need to be that big. Oh god having to walk in that desert map with the hole in the middle was a pain. The mountain map too was kinda bad. "Why not let mountains just be mountains?". If they added a QoL feature to teleport to the puzzles directly from the map, it would be great. I know you can teleport from the rail cart, but I wish you could from anywhere.
I really enjoyed both these games, particularly the horror aspect of these robots that have convinced themselves they are humans building some kind of utopia that is grimly sterile. The balancing of Talos 2 was much smoother. The architecture was superb, just a treat to look at. The philosophy, like the subtle horror, was a slow burn. In the first game, I ended up in a grave and in the second bound to a machine. Wonderfully depressing. I consider this as existentially challenging as Soma. It gradually leads you into the trap of accepting you are a machine, in contrast to what you know as the player, it is like being slowly suffocated. Brilliant! Not to mention that the soundtrack is sublime, a great contrast to the existential horror on offer. I think this is the greatest strength of the game, to wrap these contrasting elements, existential horror inside the shallow, positive shell, of finishing discreet puzzles. You work towards a goal that you know will untimely prove hollow and leave you wondering why you committed so much time and energy to a future where complex humans have been replaced by complicated machines. Such a great and subtle game and story. I hope it receives the recognition it deserves. I'm hard-pressed to choose between this and Soma as to which game made me feel the most existential dread. Soma goes for the heart, while Talos injects the poison into the brain and works hard to hide its dark agenda.
I bought the first game on Switch because it was only €4.49 (85% off) and it included the DLC too. I was blown away by the storyline and the puzzles had that right level of difficulty that felt very rewarding when you figure it out.
I will definitely buy Talos 2 if it releases on the next Switch.
As much as I liked this game I cannot in good faith say that I loved it as much as I loved the first one. Still, a good entry.
I really like 2, but i love 1. Reading the terminals and learning about how people were spending their last moments, having accepted their fate gave me a feeling that i cant quite describe, and the amazing music undoubtedly lifted up the entire game. When i tell my friends about it, i dont describe the Talos Principle as a game but an experience, one that will have a lasting effect on you.
Then there's the easter eggs which are absolutely phenomenal and loads of fun.
The Talos Principle 2, whilst very enjoyable, was just a game for me. The music was good but not as memorable, less easter eggs, and just did not completely engross me like the first
I was watching a livestream from talos 2 when i decided i wanted to play the games. I bought both games and started the first one and was so dissapointed by it that i didnt want to play the second one. I was so annoyed by the mines that are almost baseline for Ttp1. The record and play mechanic was also very annoying when you did not wait long enough in your recording and had to do the whole sequel again. It took me multiple rage quits to get trough.
Eventually after a few weeks i decided to play ttp2 in the hope it would be a bit better and i was amazed from the beginning and played through the first 3 islands right after each other. The game sucks you in like a great book and i like the way they made a sifi but human like world.
The game is huge and is so much more playable than the original one was. I am glad i did decide to give it a go.
I am still not done but slowly reaching the end. Every time i am amazed about the new mechanics and how they are used. Sometimes hard, sometimes really easy but almost always fun.
They did so much better and i will buy the 3rd one if they are going to make it.
Just finished it like 5 minutes ago. While I do prefer the first (the first seemed... more intimate? and a bit more mysterious?), you're right to say Talos 2 surpassed the first in every way. Literally every 30 seconds outside of a puzzle I'd mutter to myself, "God this game is beautiful." Not even exaggerating! And the level design on the maps *begged* you to explore... what's better is you'll often be rewarded for it. Like that long lonely hike through the Northern most ice/snow map that leads you to a point of interest. So amazing.
The fact that there are none of those obnoxious mines in TP2 (except for that one segment after u beat all the gold puzzles) automatically makes it better than TP1.
Even storywise it makes sense why they wouldn't exist here, great execution.
Year 8: I don't know, I'm still scared.
Year 9: Alright, I got the courage now. Let's make a sequel
The flame is not a "consumable". If you actually end up solving a puzzle you use the flames on you get the flame back
I'd still call it a consumable in that case, since it disappears from your inventory when you use it. But you're right that it's not a consumable in the traditional sense of the word.
Didn't know that, that's a smart way to encourage people coming back to puzzle they struggled on
Nah not bringing back playback is a crime. Sure, it was a pain in the ass to use because you have to think several steps ahead but the challenge is what made it fun and the rewarding feeling you felt when actually beating the harder puzzles with it makes the struggle more than worth it. Honestly quite sad it didn’t make a return.
Just finished Talos 2, having completed Talos 1 a couple years back. Both among my favorite games. I personally prefer Talos 1 over 2; thought the puzzlea were more challenging (for the most part). Although the last puzzle in 2 was really incredible.
I really missed the 2D tetronome puzzles. And there were too much walking/spinting. The ending was also too vauge and lacking. But yeah,all in all a great game. Highly recommended !!!
When I completed the original game, I was treated to one of the best video game endings I've ever seen. I was blown away and felt a true sense of excitement and accomplishment. It was perfect.
this looks really good and also thanks for keeping it spoiler free for folk like me who haven't played it yet.
I played TP1 a while ago but kinda sped through and cheated so wasn't a proper experience, now im playing 1 properly having a hella good time and am thinking of grabbing 2
this review helped me decide to go for it as it really looks like a step up from TP1 and thats saying something
SO THATS WHY SWAPPER STOPPED DEVELOPMENT! It was to work on Talos! That makes me heart happy that Swapper (an excellent game) wasn't abandoned as much as it was spiritually succeeded by one of my favorite games ever.
Swapper is awesome!
No, Swapper is not made by Croteam, the developer of the Swapper has moved on to create Noita with 3 other devs.
I thoroughly enjoyed the sequel and completed it 100% without any hints or skips but I still think Talos 1 is a better game (for me personally). As someone else said, the areas were huge but they didn’t really do anything with the space. The first game was packed with secrets and Easter eggs, while Talos 2 only had a few.
In terms of puzzle difficulty, I’m a little torn. There were some head scratchers for sure, but I was disappointed overall with the lack of difficulty. Trading the extremely fun Star hunt from the first game for nonsense like chasing the blue sprite was a massive step down for me.
Still fun though, and I enjoyed getting the platinum trophy. Its replay value is somewhat diminished compared to TTP1 though due to how much easier the puzzles were overall. On a repeat playthrough, it would essentially feel like a speedrun attempt. I’ve beaten TTP1 4 times and I still love it
Hopefully we get DLC similar to the excellent Road to Gehenna where the puzzle creativity and increased difficulty can have a place to truly shine
75 comments; and I'm the only one complaining about the missing Recorder!? I understand the removal of those bombs and "arcade" gizmos (then you had to repeat puzzles like Labirynt because using a simple mouse instead of a pro gamepad = very little to learn and lot of frustration) but learing how to use the Recorder properly opens your mind....removing it is a step backward.
Nice video. Congratulations. I’m loving to play this game. A truly masterpiece.
I dig your writting, man. Lovely and insightful video about a and insightful game.
I disagree.
After purchasing it on sale some time after its release, I decided to give The Talos Principle 2 a try due to my love for the first game. However, I found it to be mid-tier at best. Still a recommend, but to call it better than the first is discrediting the amazing work the first game was.
[spoilers for first and second game]
Obviously, there are noticeable improvements, which is expected in a game released 9 years later. There's better graphical quality, quality of life improvements, and good puzzles. However, when it comes to writing and atmosphere, it falls short of the first game's standard.
The solitude in the first game was a brilliant choice. Your only conversational partner was the MLA, functioning as a cynical Socratic dialogue. Apart from him and ELOHIM, you only had your thoughts. ELOHIM influenced you, commanding your thinking, while Milton challenged your convictions.
In the sequel, there are a thousand robots expressing various opinions, engaging in constant voice lines, and numerous wannabe philosophical conversations that, in my opinion, detract from the experience. The first game's dynamics, where you were alone with your thoughts during puzzles, created a unique atmosphere, making you ponder both the puzzle and Milton's words in the back of your mind at the same time.
The philosophical nature of the second game feels forced. It seems like they tried too hard to replicate the smart and deep aspects that people loved about the first game, but it ends up falling flat. I didn't walk away from the game with a different outlook. I walked away from the first game thinking "Oh maybe robots COULD be sentient as well". I walked away from the second with the same exact opinions that I came in with. In favor of the pursuit of truth. The other robots only seemed to act as vessels of opinions, and as you push harder into your own thoughts, your own convictions, or your own ideas, the game reinforces that by only giving you characters that agree with you.
The written text and conversations in The Talos Principle 1 were thought-provoking and enjoyable, creating a mystique and drawing me in. The sequel, however, feels like it's trying too hard to be deep, resulting in a series of disconnected one-liners without a meaningful message.
Additionally, certain plotlines in the second game seemed promising but failed to materialize. I had robot #666's invitation to a some secret society or something and it was intriguing, but it appeared only a few times and then disappeared.
Also there was this whole like philosophy behind truth and telling the rest of the robots about the things ive seen, but like...apparently we are always streaming our eyes...so like every robot knows everything I say, meaning my opinion on the matter apparently doesn't matter.
And the somnodrone...appeared twice and then never again? Miltohim was a nice touch, but even he was lazily executed.
The tetris puzzles were not a welcome addition. They were a weak point in the first game, they are even worse in the sequel, becoming repetitive and boring quickly. 50% of the time you can just go in order from the pieces given to you, and the other 50% of the time theres a single solution. They wouldn't be so bad if they are rarer, but doing it 4-8 times every single time you enter the pyramid? repetitive and boring quickly. But this time, if you make a mistake, you have to slowly meander back to the beginning.
The ending puzzles were lackluster, where I spent more time walking back and forth between the two areas than actually thinking about the "puzzles" (aiming a laser, positioning an inverter correctly, searching for the correct color of laser emitter) (also another tetris puzzle)
Compare that to the first? A hectic race solving puzzles as fast as you can to climb the tower.
Also the game is absolutely fantastic with its hidden loading screens....until you die, then you're hit with an obstructive, pace destroying loading screen. The first game did it why cant the second?
I don't know. Maybe because its been years since I played the first, I've been blinded by nostalgia. These puzzle games aren't really games you get to experience more than once. However, the first game was the type of game that had me look up video essays detailing about the philosophy of the game. This one, however, will probably end up being a forgotten memory, standing on the shoulders of the first.
Anyways sorry for writing that wall of text. Thats my review of the game. It's just a game that feels like it was dumbed down to incorporate a wider audience for more sales.
Also you should review/play The Outer Wilds. Another kinda philosophical puzzle game that's pretty indie. Though, it may be beating a dead horse because its old and been positively reviewed by so many. Its one of my favorite games of all time. (if you haven't played it dont look ANYTHING up. Dont even look at reviews. You will have the best experience by going in blindly and knowing nothing about the game)
That is true. I really despised the forced exploration of the bleak city and it's lifeless inhabitants. Also the puzzles inside the pyramide weren't really puzzles to be honest. The story felt weak in comparison.
I prefer the story of the first, but the gameplay mechanics are expanded and improved in the second game overall imo. My main issue was mostly that they seemed somewhat underutilized? More or less, you had one new game mechanic introduced per area, and usually that either manifests into later puzzles kind of or don’t really get used again? The giant statues area with the activation forcefield connectors don’t get used outside of that area and the final pyramid.
I would disagree with the sentiment of the loading screens, since in talos 2, the only reason for dying is usually either on purpose or something that you won’t repeatedly do multiple times now that you know you’ll die to it (either because you did die before or it makes common sense to assume that, like with the pyramid puzzles being above the abyss) It’s unlikely to die in puzzles and reset progress. Whereas, in the first game, a ton of puzzles reset progress on death, and it was also fairly tedious to solve lategame puzzles, and quite common to walk out of them trying to figure out what the solution was even after solving it. Star puzzles especially were a chore to get through. Did LOVE paint buckets and was a bit sad there wasn’t some equivalent here.
But honestly, yeah, the first game had a lot more mystery and intrigue to it, especially considering there were similar characters like in talos 2 in gehenna, where you can just talk to people on social media and interact with them. With gehenna, you have to prove you’re there to release them, and also decipher what the community thinks, feels, and hear out almost everyone’s perspectives. It’s also easier to settle moral qualms there, because it’s fairly obvious at this point why being released makes sense. You can sympathize with them wanting to be free, so someone claiming they just can be free, on behalf of ELOHIM no less? It’s a lot of interesting angles being worked into the DLC.
On the other hand, in talos 2, I completely agree with the sentiment that you just end up talking to similarly-minded people. Not to mention, half of the conversations you have with them are very “yes and”, and usually regardless of what you say they go away from it saying “you have a point 1k”. There’s not a Milton to be a pessimist while not providing thoughts of his own, and there’s not an ELOHIM telling you not to listen to Milton, being this internal conflict that neither of them want you to listen to the other, with one being a jerk, and the other claiming to grant salvation, are you absolutely sure you’d trust either of them? In the sequel, saying just about any opinion usually just results in 1k being right about it anyway. Also, 1k is already assumed to be this “special” person, alongside Athena, while Athena in talos 1 and Uriel aren’t given that. Athena’s in isolation, with Milton as a closest companion, and Uriel is in a situation where nobody trusts them, and only start to after saving them and actually showing a reason to be trusted. 1k just steps in and immediately everyone agrees with them. I can respect them for not being pissed about different opinions in this world, but there’s seemingly no pushback when it comes to differing opinions.
that’s a long comment whoops
to wrap it up talos 2 is definitely better in terms of its puzzles, none of them felt unfair to complete and they all asked enough of the player to solve them. Just didn’t think enough of the features were used long enough? If they added a few extra puzzles per area that would be closer to sufficing to that. It was nicer to just wander around in talos 2, but 1 has its charm as well.
@@HiyaJemma I'd agree with you. I enjoyed the puzzles, disliked the atmosphere and the execution of the story.
Thoughts on the forced execution of philosophy in the game? The nothing burger attempts at being super deep?
@@pinged69 honestly, didn’t notice it as heavily as you have. I thought the moral questions posed in 1 were generally a lot better, but I didn’t think too much of 2’s, which I guess is a sign that it didn’t really leave a major impact overall.
If the individual is a machine, and a city so too, what about the universe itself?
Croteam is following this line of thinking, it has a lot more voices BECAUSE TTP1 already talked about the self, so TTP2 is talking about the city.
You can already see what TTP3 is all about.
Both games are great and all, however I feel like although the 2nd game did improve on a lot of things (storytelling, cinematics, puzzle variety, roleplaying elements), I'd still say it wasn't as well made as the 1st one.
Puzzle difficulty in the first game increases pretty linearly I'd say towards its potential, however in Talos 2 I feel like the difficulty was all over the place. In one moment I felt like I was facing a pretty difficult puzzle and after I got through it, the next puzzles were laughably easy compared to the previous one, which to me was weird, because I went through the puzzles in order.
All of the puzzles in the 2nd game are way less redundant than in the first, which means in some cases you can soft-lock yourself out from the solution, because you can't get the items back in some of their original locations (this does happen in the 1st game too, but not as much). Though this does give some excitement because, you have to be more careful with the steps you take to solve the puzzle, and to try to avoid resets.
However you can reset anytime, and it is an original and intended mechanic of BOTH games, BUT meanwhile you saw a rewind when you reset without loading screens in the 1st game, you have to face a short loading screen everytime in the 2nd game, which felt pretty annoying everytime.
Because of all of these points I felt a lot of my solutions were janky and not the intended way that the puzzle was supposed to be solved, also these things caused me to set up a strategy at certain puzzles and with every information in my grasp and with every item in its place regarding it, a lot of the times I just didn't see that I already solved the puzzle essentially, the hardest parts of it I only had to click on 1 thing, but I did spend 10 more minutes thinking about it.
Compared to this, Talos 1 felt way more logical and straightforward.
Quality of life is better in Talos 1 also, the items had distinctive colors and contrasts, but in Talos 2 I spent too much unnecessary time on puzzles just because the items were blending in the environment so easily, this generally means poor game design, but I'd say that this way it's obviously a more realistic approach.
Lastly, I noticed quite a few texture errors, and objects sticking out of each other for example, in New Jerusalem the grass is sticking out through the base of some statues. These statues also have very noticable texturing mistakes and you can see the seams where those textures were stitched togehter and they don't even line up well.
The last point was the one that bugged me the most, because it is a very easily fixable thing, and the fact that it's in the game, means they either didn't notice it, or didn't care, neither of them are good.
Considering all of this, I am a bit disappointed with the quality of the game, but nonetheless I very much enjoyed it and think that it's a great game. I just wish they took quality more seriously.
my only Talos experience was in the VR release of the first game and it's expansion. it was beautiful. im hesitant on 2 because i want to complete the journey in VR and its not there in 2 ... yet.
Just finished it, agree with everything, so happy they did this game. The only thing I would add is say that it is the kind of game that diserves to play the first one to fully enjoy the second one :)
I enjoyed both games a lot, but 2 was a lot less frustrating in terms of difficulty. I solved most of the puzzles in seconds, while it took me days to tackle the first game's puzzles.
Thanks man, nice job. The first game is a masterpiece. I told all my friends about her. I just found out about the release of the second part. OMG!
Thanks for the video this felt more like a behind scenes hands on preview than a detailed review. You didn't go much or at all into graphics, sound, music, level design, gameplay features and world, and didn't present any Cons Negatives versus Pros. However it was still interesting, I think I'll get the game now.
Loved TTP1, finished everything in it 100% on PC by myself
I Found it Very sad that the Turrets and Mines were not Used in TP2.
Not only because i Loooved this Mecanic in TP1 but also ,
!SPOILER!
because it is breakting the Story of TP2, since the Puzzles in TP2 were Created by a Dream of #1 (The Player Character of TP1) it is breaking this story that there are no Turrets and Mines since the Player (#1) Encountered them multiple times in TP1.
Awesome video. I like yoyr whole channel by the way.
I feel TTP2 did pretty well for itself especially considering its relatively quiet launch, 88/8.9 on Metacritic, and 94/96% positive reception on steam. I think hoping for a TTP3 is not unreasonable (unless Devolver does something stupid). Personally I love the game so far, absolutely lives up to its predecessor.
This really makes me wanna play the sequel, currently playing the first one. I love extremely difficult puzzles but hate the recorder ones, there's just something about time based clones in puzzle games that never really click for me and i end up fumbling around till i find the solution. (And i genuinely despise games were you die out reset by accidentally touching your clone, especially if it's a 2d platformer)
The recorder was an annoying mechanic, thankfully they left it out of the sequel.
just finished TP2 and its awesome!!! :)
I love how Croteam managed to create the complex puzzles for the game in less than a year, but struggled to create the story for the game.
It really says a lot about the ''logic mind'' of a real good programmer.
Yeah, I also thought I started the wrong game. Wow. I thought, was thus the new game. It's desame as number one wtf I thought. But then it starts in this way other direction. Wandering around the countryside is very very pleasant. The talks also.love it ❤
I'm not gonna watch the video yet because I'm only about 42% done with the game according to the savefile screen. But I do not think it is better, and here's why:
1) Softer science fiction--the first game's technologies were all extrapolations from current technology--you only have to imagine things like more powerful computers, more storage, better robotics, and hydroelectric dams that are more reliable. The new game goes into new states of matter, antigrav, and other nebulous shit that might as well be fantasy if they're not telling you "these are the products of science, we promise!" As such, it's just like a zillion other video games and loses some of what's special about the first game.
2) On a related story note, death now works just like most other games where you just pretend it didn't happen. In the first game, your deaths are all just part of the process and create a new iteration of your character. Same thing with resetting puzzles. By moving the game to the real world, they kind of had to do that, but it's less unique. And it goes deeper--even unintended bugs in the first game can be completely explained by the encrypted terminal message thanking Croteam for letting them run the simulation on the Serious Engine ;) In this game, when a frog just vanishes or you walk right through Byron's body, you can only go, "well, it's a video game..."
3) Toggle sprint is broken. They say they're going to fix this in a future patch, but right now it is an issue. And there's no fast forward key either, so getting from place to place is a real slog.
4) The storytelling is a bit more of a mess now that there are NPCs in addition to terminals and audio logs. Honestly, I think they should have leaned in to the fact that the game has many characters. The epistolary part of the story now kinda slows it down IMO, and it feels like they're only doing it because the first game did and they felt like they had to keep that even though the setting is completely different.
5) The star puzzles are worse. So far all I've encountered are pixel hunts (including Prometheus' "find the pixel then chase it down after maybe finding it again a few times" and the Sphinx's "my maps suck and the location of the thing is only approximate, so good fucking luck" puzzles ;) ) and green laser puzzles. The green laser stuff is OK, but it's far less interesting than some of the stuff in the original game and Gehenna. And I feel like using a more robust physics engine is going to have the side effect of not being able to sneak stuff out of puzzles as often. So far I don't think I've snuck out anything at all aside from lasers!
6) Maps are bigger, but it's also easier to get lost and they're mostly boring compared to the maps in the base game and Gehenna. I have yet to see anything that blows me away like C3 in the original game or area 2 in Gehenna did.
7) Mixed feelings about the regular puzzles. So far (I'm done with all the east puzzles and most of the north puzzles) there's nothing really huge--I don't think any puzzle has taken me longer than 5-10 minutes to solve. By this point in the base game there were already some that took me a while on my first playthrough (Windows Into a Labyrinth comes to mind). Some of the new mechanics are cool I guess, but also simplicity is a virtue in puzzle games, and I don't know how many new laser redirection mechanics we really need. I felt similarly about the gels in Portal 2.
I am still enjoying the game, and some of these opinions may change as I experience more, but I doubt my overall impression of the game will ever surpass the first game.
The puzzles are very easy as well, have beaten it already, felt underwhelming.
I'm now at 75% on the main puzzles+lost puzzles, and the stars have improved somewhat but still aren't as good as some of the out-of-the-box stars in the original game where you have to parkour equipment out of a puzzle.
Also, I thought of something I forgot before:
8) No recorder puzzles. I know the recorder was a divisive mechanic, so maybe they were right to remove it, but personally it was my favorite mechanic in the base game, and it had a lot of potential that Croteam didn't really exploit to the fullest (though some workshop maps did). I really like recorder puzzles where your recording is coordinating actions with your future self as opposed to just standing there.
And I feel like a way they could have executed it in the sequel is perhaps to have a choreography mechanic where you do some things and then Yaqut comes in and imitates your scripted actions (so he can be good at puzzles vicariously through you) and magic Athena technology duplicates tools for your partner.
Again, I get why they removed it, but to me the mind transference mechanic just isn't anywhere near as good or as versatile.
The puzzles suck so much man. I legit solve the lost puzzles in west region in under 1-2 minutes on 2-3 occasions. Right now I'm the golden gate puzzles. Let's hope there's something to salvage. I feel like the people who say it has mindbending puzzles or even hard puzzle must have 90 iq. I genuinely don't know what they are talking about. The sub 5 min per puzzle continues for all the 12 region with some exceptions where you miss something and waste time or from a small increase in difficulty that may get you to spent 10-15 minutes. That may have happened 3-4 times in the entire game for me.
Recorder puzzles were my favourite from the previous game. It's their most unique and most versatile creation. It's a shame they didn't add it to this game as it would still be logically consistent even outside the simulation given the technology shown to us in the story.
@@junkoe3808 I mostly had the same experience. There were three or four puzzles out of the main/lost puzzles that I hit some snags on and took longer than 5-10 minutes, but most were way easier. The golden puzzles were almost all legit good though. I'm saving getting an actual ending for tomorrow, but aside from that I'm done and the golden puzzles were the highlight of the whole game for me, both puzzle-wise and story-wise.
One other thing this game never ever had was big, sprawling puzzles, like, say, Circumlocution and Prison Break in the original game, or Open Field and Crater in Gehenna. I do appreciate puzzles where you can get a feel for the entire layout at a glance, but big puzzles with many parts are also great, and I'd rather spend time exploring puzzles in a puzzle game than exploring the world the puzzles are situated in, and this game gets that backwards IMO. At least there were finally some nice-looking areas in West 2 and 3, though all of the areas were way more of a pain in the ass to get around than anything in the original game. They need to patch the game to improve fast-travel IMO. As it stands, it's practically useless, and they should let you fast-travel at any time to any puzzle you've already visited IMO.
@@Eyedunno i have 3 golden gates left all sub 5-10 minutes. The golden gate from E 1 might have taken me more than 20 minutes if i solved it as intended, but i found a cheesy unintended solution, i think. Anyways, I'm taking a break now and then moving on to western golden gates. Lol, i never actually expected to finish 100% of the puzzles without getting the achievement, but now I'm so close. Which is why I'm taking a break, this has made the puzzle solving stressful :)).
I thought Talos Principle 1 was one of the best game I've ever played... It still is but Talos Principle 2 is right above
Same, even though 2023 is stacked, Talos 2 belongs on the GOTY list imo
It is a more complete game in terms of story, world and all that, but for a Talos 1+Gehenna fan the puzzles in Talos 2 were a little bit too easy overall. I would hope for a more challenging DLC.
I didnt even know the second one existed, I loved the first, also love portal 1 2 and Portal stories: Mel, Stanley parable 1 and 2 and the room 1 2 3 and 4. I had replayed them all so many times and have been bored with nothing new to play, but the other day I came across A game I had no idea existed, The Talos Principle 2, I was impressed to start with but then when I got inside the Megastructure, I was blown away.
Destiny 2 had this part of the game where you go inside A pyramid but it turned out to be incredibly disappointing, The megastructure in Talos 2 is what it should have been. 100% worth the time and money to play it and I'm gonna be replaying it A fair bit ☺
If you like first person puzzle games, also check out The Witness and Return of the Obra Dinn. They're both incredible and should be pretty cheap in the upcoming Steam sale :)
I don’t think one’s better than the other. Each game offers a unique experience. I’ve done both.
Just completed Talos 2, I’m redoing talos 1. The market needs more games like these .
I just beat the 2nd one, it was great, i do think it was a bit too easy though, i kept waiting for the difficulty to get brutal and it never did
i beat almost every puzzle within only a few minutes, which was fun but i remember spending an hour+ on several of the first games (and DLCs)
Talos 2 was one of the best games I've ever played, and you did it justice with this review. For anyone on the fence, I feel Talos 2 is most comparable to Portal 2.
I agree it is better than one. and I didn't think that was possible.
Same!
Really enjoyed the 2nd game, didn't like all of the new mechanics both most of them were very good and I think they kept the best ones from the original. I was also glad to see that the mines, turrets and recorder were not carried over from the original.
I just finished the game. I wouldn't go as far as saying that TTP2 is better than 1, but to be honest I can't really compare the two and decide which one is "above" the other.
In terms of puzzles, the first game has MUCH harder puzzles and much harder mechanics (I got stuck with at least half of the red piece puzzles, had to follow guides for some especially hard puzzles, and could never even get the Messenger ending because of that one puzzle packed full with mines); the second game has easier puzzles that are less frustrating and less time-consuming. Which one is better than the other depends on one's personal taste, really.
In terms of story, the first game is more focused on the duality human/machine and what it means to be human and alive, while the second game is about the relationship between humans and nature, scientific discoveries and their impact on the population, and the single individual vs their entire community. They're both beautiful in their own way, and OF COURSE their respective atmospheres are different - if the writers decided to recycle the same themes as TTP1 for TTP2, it would have made no sense and the story wouldn't have moved forward at all. Again, whether one likes either better than the other is up to personal taste.
What I know is that both gave me goosebumps in the best way in the end, and in both instances I kept thinking about the game for days after finishing it. I'm just so grateful we got such a beautiful sequel.
I really appreciated your analysis, it game me lots of information and point of views I hadn't even considered before!
All the puzzles were logical except 1, there was no giving up for me just a happiness that I finally worked it out :)
Which was it?
The only minus I would have is that the first game was considerably harder to 100% than the new one.
One one hand I am sooo glad because the stars in the 1st were sometimes completely stupid to obtain like looking up some code on internet or something. But on the other hand I never spend more than 20 minutes on a puzzle stuck in the 2nd when I spent more than 1 hour in some puzzles of the 1st. And that felt good in the 1st to be stuck sometimes.
I just hope they plan on releasing a DLC with the harder puzzles in it
honestly the puzzle gameplay in Talos 1 is better than Talos 2. I didnt struggle with any puzzle throughout the entire game of Talos 2. It felt really boring. It had several puzzles in the last part of the game that took 10 seconds to beat, Very unsatisfying
Would have liked road to Ghanna comparison also. I finished Talos 1 and bought dlc but never played it.
My take on it as a huge fan of both games, is that talos 2 had better puzzles and puzzle mechanics, while talos 1 had a better story. I liked the story in talos 2 quite a lot but that was mostly carried by trevor, athena, miranda and cornelius, all of the other characters were between fine and bad. (except melville i love them)
I disagree that Talos Principle 2 is better overall. Keep in mind that its been a while since i played the first.
The good: Many new and cool mechanics, much more accessible. Really enjoyed the golden gate puzzles and the endgame puzzle. The sound design was solid. Lots of different scenery, although some worlds like north, didn't have that much going on, but I really enjoyed some of the concrete structures. Tons of great philosophical texts, terminal games and dialogue that questions everything you know, just like the first one.
The bad: Uninspired stars. In the first game, you had to go out of your way and sometimes really think outside the box to get the stars. I had so much fun trying to collect most of them. The moon one was so memorable. In the second game its just 3 or 4 ways to get them. And its just boring and tedious, especially the "follow the sprite" stars. The new unreal engine didn't have much going for it, no really cool unique features like the rewind on death (although a bit unrealistic in the real world) or the world end borders. Upscaling was also a mixed bag for me, couldn't turn it off, and it looked kind of weird in the terminals. All the stuff with the robot humans following you through the game and giving you exposition didn't really work for me. No real mystery like in the first game. The music also took a hit, the only song I remember was the city song and the bridge song.
I would still recommend this if you've played the first game and want more good puzzles and philosophy. I enjoyed my time and I got all achievements in both games without manipulating saves.
The pictures are more fancy indeed, but I'm not sure if the game design is better than 1. Easy stars are less juicy anyway.
Wow, do i need to play the 1st to understand the second?
Nope, someone explains what happened during the first game at the start :)
It does a good job at explaining the events of the first one but I think you'll get a better understanding of that world and why everything is so important if you play TP1 first
It would be highly recommended to play the first one for sure. You don't need to do the star puzzles, just do the main game.
Play the first one you won't regret it
Indie Game Oasis: “I won’t give anything away”
5:35- *gives something away*
Great analysis otherwise!
i just wish i had a pc good enough to run this game
Update: have been playing on ps5 and having a blast : )
Shame it has no VR. I loved the first one in VR
The first game was a masterpiece. There were enjoyable moments in the second game, and it was undoubtedly pretty, but I often found it a chore to get through, especially towards the end. Not because it was difficult (it wasn't, in my opinion), just... boring.
I can't believe they took out the time record, that was a mistake it was an amazing incorporation, gonna turn thus off now as only on second world :)
Recorders were the most hated element of the first game. You really had to think hard for how to use it, the n of you messed up a bit you had to start over
It seems like to me the majority of the recorder puzzles that didn't utilize portable platforms were just to temporarily double your inventory while your double is only there to wait out the duration of their recording.
Portal 2 finally has real competition
i jsut cant believe this game was 30 dollars
Talos Principle is like Rogue Legacy in that the sequel is better in pretty much every way, so play the first because it's also excellent.
The only thing Talos 1 did better IMO was the star puzzles. Other than the awesome music I'm not at all a fan of the blue flame chasing minigames. Look all over the multi-acre map just to find something that's not really a puzzle.
talos 1 puzzles were better, the zones were better, the mystery was better, the musics too, at least talos 2 didn't have the tetris puzzles (well i kinda does with the paths in the megastructure or to the end of areas but it was okayish even tho it was useless), the megastructure was boring, at least the mines are gone. talos 1 especially with the DLC is better than talos 2, the sequel is still a phenomenal game.
While I agree that some of the first game's puzzles where insanely difficult, this game is too easy. I solved all golden puzzles quickly. Maybe 5 puzzles took me more than 10 minutes. There are on 3(or 4) types of star puzzles and they are hard to even consider them puzzles, apart from the pandora's ones, those were great.
I wouldn't say that Talos 2 has a bettter difficulty curve than 1, because it doen't have any difficulty. You step into a puzzlr area, look around for the different tools, and by the time you gathered them, you already solved the puzzle.
The monuments are a joke, just plain and boring stuff. The stars in 1 have a sens of wonder and exploration.
Thought 2 has beautiful scenery, is funny yet grave, the caracters are unique and interesting to engage with
I want to say you must be smarter than me, my dude, because I found that a lot of the puzzles seemed impossible at first, and required lateral thinking in order to solve. Things like Photon Bridge and Slide are the real standouts (I broke the Slide puzzle before I've solved it, that's how difficult it was to me).
But if you're actually smarter, why would you say the puzzles in the first game are that much more difficult? I thought they were very close, maybe 10-15% more difficult, but I would never say the first game doesn't have a difficulty.
So, I'm thinking, perhaps it's not that you're smarter, but that you learn much faster? A lot of the things seem hard when you first encounter them, but then, as you understand how they work, it becomes really easy. I bet that if you'd played the games in reverse order, perhaps you would say that the first game had easier puzzles.
Anyway, my main point is that I did not find the same disparity in difficulty as you did, so something weird is going on here.
The puzzles in the original were completely fine, including the recorder ones.
The sequel has much worse writing that doesn't even come close to being as interesting as the original. The constant spoken dialogue, weird social media and long cutscenes are annoying. What made the original good was the solitude and that is completely gone now.
Another thing to mention is the music. The original had music that was specifically composed to not be annoying while solving puzzles. Not the sequel, here the music is filled with small passages that become repetitive, distracting and annoying.
Hey, Verena and Jonas are not siblings. They are married!
Thanks for the correction, I guess I got confused by them sharing the same last name!
@@indiegameoasis No probs :)
I am embarrassed to admit that I gave up on the Talos Principle 1. I eventually reached a point where I got stuck on one puzzle, and it was so infuriating that I gave up and sadly never finished the game. Don't get me wrong, I love challenging puzzles, but I do agree that the difficulty curve needed to be fixed. The funny thing was I had no big issues with all the puzzles leading up to it, so it felt like one puzzle ruined the whole game for me.
So far, Talos Principle 2 is way more digestible (in line with Portal 2 I feel). I do think that maybe its leaning towards maybe a bit too-easy now (again, like Portal 2), but honestly I'll take this over my experience with the difficulty in TP1.
One thing I also noticed is the puzzle mechanics are just better in TP2. For example, in the TP1, I hated the red moving bots that exploded and the turrets (just felt like frustrating game mechanics that wasted so much time). Luckily, those are no longer in the game and the new mechanics are a welcome breath of fresh air.
As for gripes with this game. Well honestly the biggest reason I loved TP1 was the introspection and isolation element it provided. I remember visiting Rome IRL a year after I played the game and being in awe of how much the TP1 "ruin" world accurately reflected the feelings that the ancient roman ruins in real life bestow on you. TP1, whether it was the Egypt or roman ruins provided a sense of wonder and awe that no other game ever has. This new game, as amazing as it is, does not provide that. I think the NPC element, plus the way the world is laid out removes that.
So, for me this game is amazing, but to TP1 lovers just know that this game is quite different. I don't see that as a bad thing, but I am sure some will. So I definetly recommend this game. Though for me its comparing apples and oranges in a way, I don't see as one being better then the other.
The Talos Principle 1 is BETTER than 2. Here's Why:
TTP2 is a poorly optimised unreal engine asset dump that strains your computer to run it - way more than it has to for being a simple puzzle game. It's actually incredible how bad this game performs for the low amount of processing is required. So if your computer is a bit older, forget it.
The game also has you walking these enormous maps for no reason whatsoever. I think I spent more time outside of puzzles than inside. Bloated game time. And on top of it all, they removed the fast-forward button, which was in my opinion was crucial to traversing the unnecessarily huge maps a bit quicker.
The story is a spoonfed narrative with tons of dialogue and the philosophy of it all is paper thin, and is generally less interesting than the first talos principle which made you think way more about what is means to be human.
The optional star challenges are also dogshit compared to the first one, which had actual puzzle challenges. TTP2 has 3 kinds: follow the purple particle all over the huge map; find a hidden lever; and find the hidden laser connector in the environment to connect a green laser to. The reward for completing all star challenges is a 10 second cutscene.
The puzzles are great though.
They did have the right idea to double down on lasers and buttons puzzles, and scrap the mines and recording mechanics. The implementation of the tetronimoes was also better in the second game. They just didn't need to bloat the game with all the other crap.
I disagree.
1) Puzzle-wise, I like the second game's difficulty curve much more, but I think it should have had an additional, really difficult puzzle for each area. I know the team said they saved it for the DLC, but I think a lot of people will not come back for the DLC. You have to show some promise before you ask people to trust you, I think.
2) I am really, really disappointed by the environmental puzzles. Sphinx puzzles in particular seems like the worst parts of point-and-click games puzzle designs. I appreciate Prometheus, but it's straight up not a puzzle. This leads to there at best being 1 environmental puzzle per area, and that's way too little, in fact, that's less than in the 1st game. So, your argument that a game expands on every element is false, the 2nd game devolves on environmental puzzles, objectively.
3) I was so disappointed in environmental puzzles that I started breaking in and out of the puzzle rooms. This has led me to a far more enjoyable experience overall, but I wouldn't have arrived at it had I not known the environmental puzzles from the first game. I feel like it is more of me finding enjoyment in bad design, rather than design being good.
4) Story direction is a complete side-grade that I am not a fan of:
4.1) First of all, I really like it when the story is optional and to the side. I guess I just don't like things being shoved in my face, like a big red flashing arrow pointing in a direction I need to go. I like subtlety. I know those things exist for a reason, but knowing why they put it there doesn't make me feel better about it. It's like putting grates on windows because kids are at home - you know it is for their safety, but it's still displeasing to the eye. Story in the 2nd game is like that - it's in my face, and I don't like it.
4.2.) The whole story felt like it engaged with things that I do not care about or find difficult. It felt like a straw man argument. I do not see the fundamental opposition the game presents, of progress vs conservatism, and our impact and responsibility before the world. These questions seem like trivialities or fallacies. The first game presented an interesting framework to look at things, and the second game presented an overly simplistic world view.
5) The scale of the second game is impressive and awe-inspiring, but it is inconvenient. The more you play, the more the awe wears off, and the more you start being bothered by things like long walk times, etc. It's very similar to fancy animations in tactics games, or glory kills in action games - they are awesome initially, but eventually, you get used to them and begin to resent them.
Overall, I think the Talos Principle 2 is a side-grade, not an upgrade, and that goes for all its aspects: puzzles, story, scale.
The sequel is a bit worse than the original, I don't agree with your opinion that puzzles are organized better. In the original, you had a bit of a learning curve then a rollercoaster for a bit. I struggled only in the 2nd game only in 3 puzzles, a story is a bit better. Of course, greatly described, but the original did it better nevertheless the narrative.
I hated the prolonged game by opening golden doors at the endgame and forcing the player to go to each area one more time without the ability to skip the road.
I disagree. For me TP2 is a step back in nearly every aspect despite the amazing graphics.
Puzzles difficulty never reach the levels of TP1 and solving them felt much less rewarding.
(30% people on steam got all puzzles even golden ones. Thats a joke.)
Levels and walking distances, especially inside the pyramid, are way too big and thats not really necessary.
In general the game felt too stretched. Less than 20% of time is really puzzle solving.
Plot and conversations does not add much new interesting and significant to the story, after i arrive in the city.
I enjoyed to interact with Milton much more than this never ending superficial conversations with those robots, which are repeating the same things over and over again.
What really made the TP1 a unique experience and masterpiece for me was the great soundtrack and atmosphere.
TP2 is a great puzzle game but TP1 was more...
No, it's not.
I am enjoying your playthrough of the game so far and have been sort of playing along, although I am moving past where you are in the game for two reasons; for one I am retired so have plenty of time to play and secondly, the storyline has just grown tiresome for me. It was interesting at first, but it's a lot more reading than I want to do for a puzzle game not to mention preachy. It's bad enough I have to listen to every liberal news and social media outlet on the planet spewing the BS about global warming and now I have to listen to the same bunk in a video game !! So I have taken to just skimming over most of the text in the game just to get to the puzzles. On that front many of the puzzles are ridiculously easy, even for me, compared to the original game. Usually when I struggle with one it's just me not seeing the obvious or the developers taking liberties with some of the normal game mechanics....but for the most part not real difficult and some of the new game mechanics introduced are just...odd. Hopefully the gold puzzles, which I have not gotten to yet, will be more challenging. At some point I might go back and read thru the text but most likely I will move on to the next game.
Anyway, I do appreciate the time you have taken and I actually find your commentary and opinions on the storyline and life in general, interesting. I don't always agree, probably since we grew up in very different times, but interesting none the less.
No.
Fat disagree on the writing part, it is completely dumbed down and reads like a tumblr/reddit post, compared to the original.
The first game is much better in terms of plot, atmosphere of loneliness and mystery. The second game loses the most in terms of the characters, who are terribly played completely without emotion (unless this was an intended effect to show the difference in that they are not quite human, which I doubt, since the game indicated otherwise all the time). On top of that, the characters are boring, the dialogues too long and monotonous and not very engaging. In the first game, despite the fact that the only conversations were through terminals, they were amazingly conducted. However, leaving aside these aspects, Talos is still a game about solving puzzles, and they are much better in the second part. The new mechanics and puzzle elements are amazing. The puzzles themselves are very small and modest, but their solutions are difficult to achieve, by their unconventionality. The ingenuity of the creators was amazing. Overall I loved the first game for its atmosphere and storyline, so for me it will rank much higher, the second game disappointed me a bit, but thanks to the puzzles I still rate it very high. I know that the success of the first game was unreproducible , so I think it could not have been better.
I second that concerning the atmosphere. But in hindsight I think the puzzles in Talos 1 (especially Road to Gehenna) were much more challenging.
Cant agree at all, puzzles are too easy in comparison to the first talos, only a few of golden puzzles were good, but jesus in talos 1 there are a lot of interesting red levels and gehenna in addition
Writing is not bad but there is no more mystery behind everything, plot is quite basic, moreover everything gets explained sooner or later
Graphics... mmm im here to solve puzzles, not to fuck myself with settings and bugs
It is a good game imo, it was fun 30+ hours, but cannot be compared to talos 1
Edited:
New tetramino is bullshit, ¿queries?
More mechanics, worse puzzles. How many mechanics the first game had? And how complicated the puzzles was?
Yeah but the puzzles are baby easy compared to the first game.
Really? I'm huge fan of puzzle games and T1 truly got me thinking.
Tbh in T1 I only googled 2 puzzles (mostly because I wasn't paying attention to the game).
Wrong.
i dont agree, first game was better with its music, feeling atmosphere and puzzle difficulties
I can't disagree more. The new game might look better, but both puzzle wise and story wise it's inferior to it's predecessor. The puzzles are way easier, elements keeps getting introduces up to the last few puzzles. And the story while better written is far more simplistic than the originals. The original is among my top 5 puzzles, 2 is among my top ten only because good puzzle games are hard to find and this one is a AAA puzzle game. Disappointing.