Apologies if you touched on this in the video and i missed it but as a live sound engineer, the biggest problem with mic cupping is how it changes the polar pattern of the microphone. You mentioned how as soon as you cupped the mic with your speakers live, you got feedback immediately and thats because as you cover up the back of the grill, it changes the polar pattern into an omni directional mic which means it picks up sound from all directions. In an isolated studio environment like this video, it isn't too much of a problem (besides the drastic tonal changes) but on a busy stage with drums, guitar amps, monitors and FOH, the microphone no longer has any rejection points and the bleed from other instruments and speakers etc will really increase the risk of feedback, reduce the clarity of the vocal performance which makes the vocalist want more in the monitors (which then makes the feedback problem even worse) and make it a lot more difficult to get those vocals to sit on top of the mix. You can semi deal with the mid bump with some careful EQ'ing but all the other problems that arise aren't particularly fixable from the desk and you end up with a less than stellar mix. I can understand how it could be used artistically, especially for scream vocals, if it's used to highlight certain parts of the song then i almost view it like a boost pedal like a guitarist would do but throughout an entire set i think it's mostly a negative practice
Thank you very much for your insight! I did not touch upon the change from cardioid (or in this mic's case supercardioid) to omni, so for that alone, I am pinning your comment. Thank you for the very many nuggets of knowledge!
Also an audio engineer. The back of the grill of the mic would be the phase ports, and yes, covering them DOES change the cardioid polar pattern to an omnidirectional, which in turn can cause some really nasty feedback. But it also can affect the microphone's frequency response, sometimes in favorable ways, sometimes not so much. The major problem with cupping is you pretty much have to ALWAYS cup if you start. If cupping the mic causes the frequency response to spike up around 8k, so the engineer dips that in EQ, and then you shift your hand over time during the performance, now there's a huge cut there. Mics are long, and allow for a vocalist to hold it in various parts in various ways which can reduce hand fatigue. Or placing it in a stand. It's just generally a MUCH better practice overall to NEVER cup the mic unless it's a shorter performance and the artist needs to (Beat boxing competitions, for example). Generally EQ and Compression can give similar positive effects and are better long term solutions. In live events, I've had vocalists or rappers cup the mic because they want to hear themselves better. Just turning them up in their mix would be a better solution.
28 дней назад+2
Another live sound guy here reinforcing what my colleagues have already said. There's a reason why sound guys hate when vocalists cup the mics. You just can't fix the issues that arise from it. Feedback is number one. Although you can try things like intentionally cupping the mics to ring out the monitors prior to main sound checks (I did), which helps somewhat, all this effort robs you of precious dB of loudness. And then the vocalist starts complaining that they can't hear themselves on stage. Yeah, no shit. And you can't do anything about it because you're already maxed out on your output busses. Secondly, it makes singers sound like crap through the PA, and you just can't fix it with the EQ even if it's fixable in theory, since you've used up your EQ bands. And then the people in the audience start complaining that the singer sounds like crap and they can't hear the words and/or it's too quiet. And you can't even turn it up through the PA because it's not SxSW with a huge stage and giant linear arrays suspended 50 feet away from you, it's a small club and now the mic is feeding back through the PA. You know what I mean? And then people wonder why the sound guys are always grumpy.
That's absolutely true, and it's just not worth it in the end - you can hear and even see the effect in my video. Thank you so much for chiming in, I genuinely appreciate it!
Just saw a recent live clip of Funeral for a Friend that sounded just awful because he was cupping the mic so bad. It might sound good in some voices. But especially on singing it sounds horrible. So if one cares about sounding as good as possible, they should care about holding the mic „properly“ and deal with it. The whole „it feels more comfortable“ thing is a bit of a cop out.
Yeah that's kinda frustrating. At that level, the singers should really learn and not be THAT stubborn. Imagine doing the equivalent of that behaviour as a bassist or something.
Thank you so much, very appreciated, you are too kind man! This is mainly this microphone that is distorting a lot - feel free to check out the real studio version, I'm sure you'll find there's a lot less distortion happening :) the song is called Dreams of More by my band Atropas
I think mic cupping can definitely have its place especially if you’re performing a song that needs that overcompressed/low pass sound like Mr. Brightside or any deftones song honestly, I do think there’s more clarity when not cupping but I also honestly think the real issue is when people don’t understand something, especially in music and audio engineering at least from what I’ve seen, it gets deemed bad.
I agree - if a singer deliberately and knowingly uses this as an effect, it can absolutely work. I think they key there is to have clear communication with your sound guy, to prevent any issues that might arise from all that.
@@jude6005 Thank you for that!! Making this video took longer than I thought it would, but I do believe it was worth it, if not only for my own learning. I'm glad you found it helpful!
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Apologies if you touched on this in the video and i missed it but as a live sound engineer, the biggest problem with mic cupping is how it changes the polar pattern of the microphone. You mentioned how as soon as you cupped the mic with your speakers live, you got feedback immediately and thats because as you cover up the back of the grill, it changes the polar pattern into an omni directional mic which means it picks up sound from all directions. In an isolated studio environment like this video, it isn't too much of a problem (besides the drastic tonal changes) but on a busy stage with drums, guitar amps, monitors and FOH, the microphone no longer has any rejection points and the bleed from other instruments and speakers etc will really increase the risk of feedback, reduce the clarity of the vocal performance which makes the vocalist want more in the monitors (which then makes the feedback problem even worse) and make it a lot more difficult to get those vocals to sit on top of the mix. You can semi deal with the mid bump with some careful EQ'ing but all the other problems that arise aren't particularly fixable from the desk and you end up with a less than stellar mix. I can understand how it could be used artistically, especially for scream vocals, if it's used to highlight certain parts of the song then i almost view it like a boost pedal like a guitarist would do but throughout an entire set i think it's mostly a negative practice
Thank you very much for your insight! I did not touch upon the change from cardioid (or in this mic's case supercardioid) to omni, so for that alone, I am pinning your comment. Thank you for the very many nuggets of knowledge!
Also an audio engineer. The back of the grill of the mic would be the phase ports, and yes, covering them DOES change the cardioid polar pattern to an omnidirectional, which in turn can cause some really nasty feedback. But it also can affect the microphone's frequency response, sometimes in favorable ways, sometimes not so much. The major problem with cupping is you pretty much have to ALWAYS cup if you start. If cupping the mic causes the frequency response to spike up around 8k, so the engineer dips that in EQ, and then you shift your hand over time during the performance, now there's a huge cut there. Mics are long, and allow for a vocalist to hold it in various parts in various ways which can reduce hand fatigue. Or placing it in a stand. It's just generally a MUCH better practice overall to NEVER cup the mic unless it's a shorter performance and the artist needs to (Beat boxing competitions, for example). Generally EQ and Compression can give similar positive effects and are better long term solutions. In live events, I've had vocalists or rappers cup the mic because they want to hear themselves better. Just turning them up in their mix would be a better solution.
Another live sound guy here reinforcing what my colleagues have already said. There's a reason why sound guys hate when vocalists cup the mics. You just can't fix the issues that arise from it. Feedback is number one. Although you can try things like intentionally cupping the mics to ring out the monitors prior to main sound checks (I did), which helps somewhat, all this effort robs you of precious dB of loudness. And then the vocalist starts complaining that they can't hear themselves on stage. Yeah, no shit. And you can't do anything about it because you're already maxed out on your output busses. Secondly, it makes singers sound like crap through the PA, and you just can't fix it with the EQ even if it's fixable in theory, since you've used up your EQ bands. And then the people in the audience start complaining that the singer sounds like crap and they can't hear the words and/or it's too quiet. And you can't even turn it up through the PA because it's not SxSW with a huge stage and giant linear arrays suspended 50 feet away from you, it's a small club and now the mic is feeding back through the PA. You know what I mean? And then people wonder why the sound guys are always grumpy.
That's absolutely true, and it's just not worth it in the end - you can hear and even see the effect in my video.
Thank you so much for chiming in, I genuinely appreciate it!
Such a great video dude! Good thing our hands are busy and we can‘t cup the mic 😁
Thank you so much bro!! Yes, right? Unexpected advantage, there, very much.
Why does this mic look tiny in your hand? 😂
Istg I thought the same, it looks goofy
Just saw a recent live clip of Funeral for a Friend that sounded just awful because he was cupping the mic so bad. It might sound good in some voices. But especially on singing it sounds horrible. So if one cares about sounding as good as possible, they should care about holding the mic „properly“ and deal with it. The whole „it feels more comfortable“ thing is a bit of a cop out.
Yeah that's kinda frustrating. At that level, the singers should really learn and not be THAT stubborn. Imagine doing the equivalent of that behaviour as a bassist or something.
I think cupping the mic helps regulate the distance from your teeth without risking bashing yourself. That's the main benefit.
Yeah, I can't imagine a mic to the teeth feeling any good
You have an amazing voice but you use a lot of distortion on the microphone and in my opinion it ruins your gorgeous cleans. Greetings from Argentina.
Thank you so much, very appreciated, you are too kind man! This is mainly this microphone that is distorting a lot - feel free to check out the real studio version, I'm sure you'll find there's a lot less distortion happening :) the song is called Dreams of More by my band Atropas
I think mic cupping can definitely have its place especially if you’re performing a song that needs that overcompressed/low pass sound like Mr. Brightside or any deftones song honestly, I do think there’s more clarity when not cupping but I also honestly think the real issue is when people don’t understand something, especially in music and audio engineering at least from what I’ve seen, it gets deemed bad.
Side note, I love this video, blind tests and learning how something actually sounds is what progresses the game, keep it up👍👍👍
I agree - if a singer deliberately and knowingly uses this as an effect, it can absolutely work. I think they key there is to have clear communication with your sound guy, to prevent any issues that might arise from all that.
@@jude6005 Thank you for that!! Making this video took longer than I thought it would, but I do believe it was worth it, if not only for my own learning. I'm glad you found it helpful!