They made some great movies back in early seventies. I didn't appreciate it back then because I was a kid but now realise it was a classic period in film making.
No fear or surprise on Pilgrim's face at 2:54 as bombs begin falling and destroying Dresden. He knows exactly what's about to happen and has visited this event many times already. He doesn't bother to warn anyone either since this has already happened and will always happen.
In a later Vonnegut book entitled "Mother Night," Howard Campbell is explained as having been an American spy posing as a Nazi sympathizer. (Maybe his bizarre uniform was deliberate, intending to discourage any American POWs from actually joining the Germans.) After the war, he manages to return to New York City with the help of an American intelligence operative, but people still believe he was a traitor and a Nazi collaborator and the U. S. government refuses to acknowledge his real role for political reasons. He’s like a man without a country for being loyal to his own. Later, he is arrested by the Israelis as a Nazi propagandist. As KV would put it so succinctly: “So it goes.”
Great book! Have you seen Mother Night the film as well? There was a minor casting issue, in which the blue fairy godmother looked a bit too much like HC's assailant later on. Can't remember who the assailant was. It didn't confuse me, but it confused the fella I took to see the film with, whose eyesight mightn't have been so good.
Derby was so perfect in the book. " His stance was that of a punch-drunk fighter. His head was down. His fists were out front, waiting for information and battleplan. Derby raised his head, called Campbell a snake. He corrected that. He said that snakes couldn’t help being snakes and that Campbell, who could help being what he was, was something much lower than a snake or a rat-or even a blood-filled tick." Campbell smiled. " Derby spoke movingly of the American form of government,with freedom and justice and opportunities and fair play for all. He said there wasn’t a man there who wouldn’t gladly die for those ideals.He spoke of the brotherhood between the American and the Russian people, and how those two nations were going to crush thedisease of Nazism, which wanted to infect the whole world."
It would have been cool if the actor who played Campbell in this film had starred in an adaptation of Mother Night. He does a good job putting up the facade of a caricature of an American Nazi, that it would be interesting to see him show Campbell's true personality. Could you imagine a 1973 production of Mother Night?
@@robert11751 And communism has brought us fractional reserve banking, multiculturalism, transgenderism, feminism, and anti White hatred, to name just a few. Trump is their puppet, nothing more...
Howard W. Campbell was recruited by John Goodman to go undercover as a Nazi sympathizer - he aided the allies in conveying critical information via his "pro-nazi" propaganda radio broadcasts - only he played the role so well that he even inspired doubting Germans to continue to support the cause. All this was shown in Kurt Vonnegut's novel, Mother Night, which was later made into a film in 1998, with Nick Nolte playing Campbell - it's a good film, worth watching IMO.
It's amazing even this low budget adaptation was made at the time. There won't be another Vonnegut movie made in the next 40 years unless it's the opposite of what he intended.
Wm K I didn’t know until know he passed away. He did a great job playing an extremely angry, uncouth, and very stupid Paul Lazzaro. And his character in Norma Rae was completely different.
The important point here is that Howard Campbell, Jr. was a fictional character completely invented by novelist Kurt Vonnegut. He was NOT inspired by any real-life traitor.
There are factual history books that will tell you. The older the better. Some Brits did serve, but very few. I don't know of any Americans, but it is likely there were also a few.
I'm sure Lord Haw Haw gave Vonnegut at least a *little* inspiration for Campbell - except for the fact that Campbell was secretly working for the Allies....
What about Edgar Derby? The movie adaptation fails to capture so many important conversations. *Poor old Derby, the doomed high school teacher, lumbered to his feet for what was probably the finest moment in his life.* *Derby raised his head, called Campbell a snake. He corrected that. He said that snakes couldn't help being snakes, and that Campbell, who could help being what he was, was something much lower than a snake or a rat - or even a blood-filled tick.* *Campbell smiled.* *Derby spoke movingly of the American form of government, with freedom and justice and opportunities and fair play for all. He said there wasn't a man there who wouldn't gladly die for those ideals.* *He spoke of the brotherhood between the American and the Russian people, and how those two nations were going to crush the disease of Nazism, which wanted to infect the whole world* How can they justify cutting that out?
"Derby spoke movingly of the American form of government, with freedom and justice and opportunities and fair play for all. He said there wasn't a man there who wouldn't gladly die for those ideals." And there were and still are retards who actually believe there is such a place. Funny. Funnier that you think it is ok to equate Russia with the USSR entirely.
Ceiling Cat It's amazing a trade school teacher would preach this back then. Nowadays you have college graduates that can barely read or find their own state on a map
I personally believe the only justification could be to make Campbell’s character look much stronger. You think half the people that watched this movie actually read the book? I don’t. I believe they used characters like Derby in a lesser role to further propel the main ones like Campbell.
help4343 I would argue his impact in the book made his character a major part of the books attempt at shining a different light on the war and POWs. My apologies for stating he is a main character, as that isn’t the truth, but I do believe his characters appearance, though short, is a major part of the whole book. No need to get smart though, I assure you I’ve read the book buddy ol pal.
Soviet/russian movie 1972 about WWII, trailer ("Battle of local importance", war drama). Sergeant Major Vaskov is unexpectedly assigned a group of young female anti-aircraft gunners in a railway station far from the front line. During an air raid, one of the girls, Margaret, shoots down an enemy aircraft and is decorated for her deed. Sergeant Major Vaskov chooses five volunteers: Margaret, Eugenia, Elizabeth, Galyna and Sophia, to embark with him on a mission to eliminate, only there are sixteen German paratroopers instead of two. Vaskov sends Elizabeth back to base for reinforcements.Sophia is killed by a knife and Galyna is shot and dies immediately from her wounds. Vaskov, to create a diversion, leads the Germans away from the remaining two girls. Vaskov is shot in the arm but manages to escape from the Germans. During a prolonged battle, Margaret is injured by shrapnel from a grenade and tells Eugenia to leave her. Realizing that they are cornered, Eugenia disobeys Vaskov's orders to cover them and instead taunts and lures the Germans away through the forest, as Vaskov did earlier and is killed. Vaskov stays with Margaret against her wishes to treat her wounds and promises to take her back to base. After kissing her at her request, he leaves to find a way out, giving her the revolver but soon comes back to find that Margaret has shot herself. The desperate Vaskov, by stabbing a soldier, shooting another and bluffing with the grenade, he captures a submachine gun. The rest of the women of the regiment, who have come to rescue the group, find Vaskov before he passes out from exhaustion. Thirty years after the war ends, Vaskov visits be Margaret's son. They are at a memorial for the five female soldiers that died. ruclips.net/video/k2jYcjHtwWU/видео.html
If you watch the movie, the atmosphere of WW2 Germany and upper middle-class small town America in the 1960’s is very real. But the movie suggests everything Billy Pilgrim is going though is very real, including his life on another planet because of what his son in law says. The book makes it clear he’s schizophrenic and suffering from PTSD living a fantasy life to deal with WW2 trauma and being a misfit as a kid.
One of the reasons I hate this adaptation is because it altered this scene so much. Lazzaro seemed like a hero here while it was Derby who stood up to Campbell. Why would they change it? What was the point of it?
This movie stuck with me from the time it first came out. Dark and funny as f*ck. Just remembering. One of my neighbors was in his late 70's. German. I got stuck spending time with him as an unpaid care giver because he kind of glommed onto me. I used to take him out for Sunday coffee and such. Anyway, to make small talk, I asked him where he was during the war as a teenager. He said "Dresden". I made polite reference to the fact that people drone on about how it wasn't a legit military target. Funny how it was targeted. Without hesitation he yelled "The Jews. They control the media". Kind of dropped him off my dance card after that.
Is this making fun of Patton? Patton realized Communism was the enemy after the war and wanted to take them on. He suddenly "Died" after he started realizing the truth behind ww2
I can’t believe that when watching such a heartbreaking scene people turn to making petty jokes about Trump. You should be thankful that we aren’t in a World War, especially a war as destructive as the one this movie wants you to see. Just watch the scene and respect that this is based off of real events.
So, you don’t have any sense at all that some element of irony or parody is at work here? If you want a more sober version of this character, though still with Vonnegut’s sense of dark humor, look up Mother Night. Nolte’s film portrayal is fantastic. Oh, and Trump is a petty man child himself, so a dog or two in the comments section don’t strike me as a tragedy. Cheers
Claude Sylvanshine my point was that I think it’s odd to be thinking about Trump when watching this movie. I don’t think the movie is out to draw attention to Trump.
Trump is like this clown in the American Nazi uniform. Trying to blame socialism for all your ills while Germany is charging into all of Europe invading you.
Campbell was nowhere in existence after the bombing was over. Filmmakers error. And if this man was real life, I'm quite sure he would have been executed as a war criminal if captured!
I eat playdoh Okay, will do! Didn’t he die from hanging instead of just conveniently disappearing after the aftermath of a bombing and being in the shelter?
They made some great movies back in early seventies. I didn't appreciate it back then because I was a kid but now realise it was a classic period in film making.
No fear or surprise on Pilgrim's face at 2:54 as bombs begin falling and destroying Dresden. He knows exactly what's about to happen and has visited this event many times already. He doesn't bother to warn anyone either since this has already happened and will always happen.
In a later Vonnegut book entitled "Mother Night," Howard Campbell is explained as having been an American spy posing as a Nazi sympathizer. (Maybe his bizarre uniform was deliberate, intending to discourage any American POWs from actually joining the Germans.) After the war, he manages to return to New York City with the help of an American intelligence operative, but people still believe he was a traitor and a Nazi collaborator and the U. S. government refuses to acknowledge his real role for political reasons. He’s like a man without a country for being loyal to his own. Later, he is arrested by the Israelis as a Nazi propagandist. As KV would put it so succinctly: “So it goes.”
Great book! Have you seen Mother Night the film as well? There was a minor casting issue, in which the blue fairy godmother looked a bit too much like HC's assailant later on. Can't remember who the assailant was. It didn't confuse me, but it confused the fella I took to see the film with, whose eyesight mightn't have been so good.
It's not a later book, Mother Night was published 8 years before Slaughterhouse-Five.
"We fought the wrong enemy."
-General George Patton
@Nobby Barnes
I admire your innocence.
@Nobby Barnes History will prove you an ass.
Derby was so perfect in the book.
" His stance was that of a punch-drunk fighter. His head was down. His fists were out front, waiting for information and battleplan. Derby raised his head, called Campbell a snake. He corrected that. He said that snakes couldn’t help being snakes and that Campbell, who could help being what he was, was something much lower than a snake or a rat-or even a blood-filled tick."
Campbell smiled.
" Derby spoke movingly of the American form of government,with freedom and justice and opportunities and fair play for all. He said there wasn’t a man there who wouldn’t gladly die for those ideals.He spoke of the brotherhood between the American and the Russian people, and how those two nations were going to crush thedisease of Nazism, which wanted to infect the whole world."
Campbell is from Mother Night, another Vonnegut novel
It would have been cool if the actor who played Campbell in this film had starred in an adaptation of Mother Night. He does a good job putting up the facade of a caricature of an American Nazi, that it would be interesting to see him show Campbell's true personality. Could you imagine a 1973 production of Mother Night?
Would have been interesting, but IMO the Nick Nolte version is perfect.
The best anti war book ever! Vonnegut is a brilliant writer!
I would take All Quiet On The Western Front over this book, any day.
I keep waiting for that uniform to show up in Man in the High Castle.
that suit is inside trumps closet
@@robert11751
And communism has brought us fractional reserve banking, multiculturalism, transgenderism, feminism, and anti White hatred, to name just a few.
Trump is their puppet, nothing more...
@Nobby Barnes
Look at all those adjectives! Lol.
My spirit will rise from the grave and the world will see i was right.
Nick Nolte did a version of Mother Night, btw.
That movie is fantastic...easily my favorite Vonnegut adaptation. HWC Jr is a very different character in that rendering.
Ive never heard of this book or this film. I'll have to have a look at both I think.
Howard W. Campbell was recruited by John Goodman to go undercover as a Nazi sympathizer - he aided the allies in conveying critical information via his "pro-nazi" propaganda radio broadcasts - only he played the role so well that he even inspired doubting Germans to continue to support the cause.
All this was shown in Kurt Vonnegut's novel, Mother Night, which was later made into a film in 1998, with Nick Nolte playing Campbell - it's a good film, worth watching IMO.
Major Frank Wirtanen, not John Goodman
God damn it. Campbell had those swastika spurs on his boots in the book. I would have loved to have seen that in the movie!
That's what I was thinking - he's supposed to have cowboy boots, and I believe a cowboy hat.
It's amazing even this low budget adaptation was made at the time. There won't be another Vonnegut movie made in the next 40 years unless it's the opposite of what he intended.
@@mightisright Yeah, it's a pretty crazy book. Wouldv'e loved a faithful adaption.
Still that American Fascist uniform is pretty awe inspiring/ fucked up too.
Salute
Beatiful house
Interesting note. The Nazi Howard W. Campbell, Jr is a character in another Vonnegut novel.
So is the sci-fi author Kilgore Trout.
@@crazyleyland5106 And millionaire veteran Elliott Rosewater.
Weren't there less survivors in the book? I recall there being only a handful of people there.
That Campbell guy reminds me of Patton for some odd reason.
/pol/ in a nutshell.
yup, pretty based
Based
As a Jew, I must say this is a very powerful scene that brought tears to my eyes. Not when I saw this film when I was 18, but just now.
RIP Ron Leibman
Wm K I didn’t know until know he passed away. He did a great job playing an extremely angry, uncouth, and very stupid Paul Lazzaro. And his character in Norma Rae was completely different.
The important point here is that Howard Campbell, Jr. was a fictional character completely invented by novelist Kurt Vonnegut. He was NOT inspired by any real-life traitor.
These stories about Brits & Americans who allegedly served the other side - how do we really know what was real or what was just propaganda ?
There are factual history books that will tell you. The older the better. Some Brits did serve, but very few. I don't know of any Americans, but it is likely there were also a few.
I'm sure Lord Haw Haw gave Vonnegut at least a *little* inspiration for Campbell - except for the fact that Campbell was secretly working for the Allies....
He's based on the very recognisable anti-Communist white supremacist undercurrents of American culture
What about Edgar Derby?
The movie adaptation fails to capture so many important conversations.
*Poor old Derby, the doomed high school teacher, lumbered to his feet for what was probably the finest moment in his life.*
*Derby raised his head, called Campbell a snake. He corrected that. He said that snakes couldn't help being snakes, and that Campbell, who could help being what he was, was something much lower than a snake or a rat - or even a blood-filled tick.*
*Campbell smiled.*
*Derby spoke movingly of the American form of government, with freedom and justice and opportunities and fair play for all. He said there wasn't a man there who wouldn't gladly die for those ideals.*
*He spoke of the brotherhood between the American and the Russian people, and how those two nations were going to crush the disease of Nazism, which wanted to infect the whole world*
How can they justify cutting that out?
"Derby spoke movingly of the American form of government, with freedom and justice and opportunities and fair play for all. He said there wasn't a man there who wouldn't gladly die for those ideals."
And there were and still are retards who actually believe there is such a place. Funny. Funnier that you think it is ok to equate Russia with the USSR entirely.
Ceiling Cat It's amazing a trade school teacher would preach this back then. Nowadays you have college graduates that can barely read or find their own state on a map
I personally believe the only justification could be to make Campbell’s character look much stronger. You think half the people that watched this movie actually read the book? I don’t. I believe they used characters like Derby in a lesser role to further propel the main ones like Campbell.
@@jeffcavanaugh9986
Cambell is not a major character in Slaugherhouse-Five. Have you read the book?
help4343 I would argue his impact in the book made his character a major part of the books attempt at shining a different light on the war and POWs. My apologies for stating he is a main character, as that isn’t the truth, but I do believe his characters appearance, though short, is a major part of the whole book. No need to get smart though, I assure you I’ve read the book buddy ol pal.
Soviet/russian movie 1972 about WWII, trailer ("Battle of local importance", war drama). Sergeant Major Vaskov is unexpectedly assigned a group of young female anti-aircraft gunners in a railway station far from the front line. During an air raid, one of the girls, Margaret, shoots down an enemy aircraft and is decorated for her deed. Sergeant Major Vaskov chooses five volunteers: Margaret, Eugenia, Elizabeth, Galyna and Sophia, to embark with him on a mission to eliminate, only there are sixteen German paratroopers instead of two. Vaskov sends Elizabeth back to base for reinforcements.Sophia is killed by a knife and Galyna is shot and dies immediately from her wounds. Vaskov, to create a diversion, leads the Germans away from the remaining two girls. Vaskov is shot in the arm but manages to escape from the Germans. During a prolonged battle, Margaret is injured by shrapnel from a grenade and tells Eugenia to leave her. Realizing that they are cornered, Eugenia disobeys Vaskov's orders to cover them and instead taunts and lures the Germans away through the forest, as Vaskov did earlier and is killed. Vaskov stays with Margaret against her wishes to treat her wounds and promises to take her back to base. After kissing her at her request, he leaves to find a way out, giving her the revolver but soon comes back to find that Margaret has shot herself. The desperate Vaskov, by stabbing a soldier, shooting another and bluffing with the grenade, he captures a submachine gun. The rest of the women of the regiment, who have come to rescue the group, find Vaskov before he passes out from exhaustion. Thirty years after the war ends, Vaskov visits be Margaret's son. They are at a memorial for the five female soldiers that died.
ruclips.net/video/k2jYcjHtwWU/видео.html
Where can I get the full movie
Right now available to rent on AppleTV, Amazon, RUclips, VUDU, and Redbox. Otherwise, it’s probably bumping around the dark corners of the internet.
If you watch the movie, the atmosphere of WW2 Germany and upper middle-class small town America in the 1960’s is very real. But the movie suggests everything Billy Pilgrim is going though is very real, including his life on another planet because of what his son in law says. The book makes it clear he’s schizophrenic and suffering from PTSD living a fantasy life to deal with WW2 trauma and being a misfit as a kid.
Campbell reminds me of a maga supporter😂.
so it was
Howard Cample Jr. looks like something from San Francisco!
newalm yes, Lazzaro (that's two Z's) pointed that out
which other novel tho?
The guy in the American/Nazi uniform is wicked surreal.
I made slaughterhouse five required reading for my five kids
Operation Gladio
Should of listened....about communism. 😔
Many Germans (not Nazis) didn’t understand why the Americans were fighting them as opposed to the Russians.
"have"!
One of the reasons I hate this adaptation is because it altered this scene so much. Lazzaro seemed like a hero here while it was Derby who stood up to Campbell.
Why would they change it? What was the point of it?
This movie stuck with me from the time it first came out. Dark and funny as f*ck. Just remembering. One of my neighbors was in his late 70's. German. I got stuck spending time with him as an unpaid care giver because he kind of glommed onto me. I used to take him out for Sunday coffee and such. Anyway, to make small talk, I asked him where he was during the war as a teenager. He said "Dresden". I made polite reference to the fact that people drone on about how it wasn't a legit military target. Funny how it was targeted. Without hesitation he yelled "The Jews. They control the media".
Kind of dropped him off my dance card after that.
The US POW's seemed like they could have escaped anytime.
Trump is considering that uniform.
With a "T" instead of a swastika.
John P Molloy Would suit his exclusive style perfectly
That was a sick and lousy and foul thing to say.
@Nobby Barnes I was quoting a line from the movie
Who gives a shit about your retarded politicians
The absurd Campbell episode mars the entire film...
2:50-3:00 Facts
Lee Marvin's great.
The funny thing is Vonnegut was parodying himself.
"You can't trust the Jews." Prophetic words.
Richard Schaal (Campbell)... husband of Valerie Harper for 13 years. (not too important).
thanks just the same, didn't know that.
He was right
@Nobby Barnes I certainly have grew out of liberalism
Would wear
If Trump was in WW2.
Is this making fun of Patton? Patton realized Communism was the enemy after the war and wanted to take them on. He suddenly "Died" after he started realizing the truth behind ww2
He was assassinated by the jews
nobody cares what patton realized about "the truth behind ww2", whatever that was. you don't assassinate somebody over something like that.
Kurt Vonnegut was an avid socialist, he despised the Nazis.
No, not at all! And the "truth" was, as terrible as communism is, Germany and the Nazis needed to be defeated. Don't be an ass.
I hate to say that Howard W Campbell Junior is a joke. He wear this stupid silly outfit, I mean seriously. Who would wear a treason uniform like that?
You think a guy wearing an Americanized Nazi uniform, in Kurt Vonnegut story, is a joke...
no wai
this guy was ahead of his time, he wants to drain the swamps and wear soldier uniform worthy of trump
He looks like a clown. Its against the flag code to wear it as a garment or a garment to made from the US flag...
I can’t believe that when watching such a heartbreaking scene people turn to making petty jokes about Trump. You should be thankful that we aren’t in a World War, especially a war as destructive as the one this movie wants you to see. Just watch the scene and respect that this is based off of real events.
So, you don’t have any sense at all that some element of irony or parody is at work here?
If you want a more sober version of this character, though still with Vonnegut’s sense of dark humor, look up Mother Night. Nolte’s film portrayal is fantastic.
Oh, and Trump is a petty man child himself, so a dog or two in the comments section don’t strike me as a tragedy.
Cheers
Claude Sylvanshine my point was that I think it’s odd to be thinking about Trump when watching this movie. I don’t think the movie is out to draw attention to Trump.
Evie Smith fair enough
Trump is like this clown in the American Nazi uniform. Trying to blame socialism for all your ills while Germany is charging into all of Europe invading you.
Trump wasn't in politics when book this was based on written, or even when the movie came out, around which time he was dodging the draft
Campbell was nowhere in existence after the bombing was over. Filmmakers error. And if this man was real life, I'm quite sure he would have been executed as a war criminal if captured!
I eat playdoh Okay, will
do! Didn’t he die from hanging instead of just conveniently disappearing after the aftermath of a bombing and being in the shelter?