Clay brick? There are more inconsistencies in heights with clay brick. You can but you may need to screed another layer of concrete sand on top of the panels so you can level the brick easily.
@@iamahardscaper what is the name of the "synthetic base hard plastic ..grid type plastic that snaps in place"? Im searching all the key words and nothing pops up.
Thanks for the great insights. I'm considering using Gator panels following with the steps you've detailed for a 12' x 12' paver area. My neighbor who has done hardscaping for years using traditional methods seems skeptial this approach will hold up through long term freeze and thaw cycles in northern Indiana. Do you have examples of longevity and the ability of this approach to perform over the long term? Thanks.
Most are skeptical until they use it. My oldest job is 6 years and still looks brand new. It is a great product. You just need to make sure that you are not installing it on soil. It needs to be subsoil (clay, sand)
Thank you very for creating all these informative videos. I am planning to lay a walkway using these synthetic base panels this spring, however, I cannot fond them in any of local big box stores. I live in the Niagara region (Ontario side) and have not been able to fond Gator panels. It seems Rona carries Brock pavers. Are these two brands different?
Yes, I believe Brock licenses it out to the other companies. But the Brock panels do not have the tongue and groove system. Any landscape supplier near you should have them or have access to them. Either Gator Base (Alliance) or Next Base (TechniSeal). I am in Toronto, you shouldn't have a problem finding it.
Thanks for this video! If I need a 6 inch retaining wall under one edge of my patio, do I lay paverbase on top of the wall or do i butt paverbase up against the back of the wall?
Great video. I’m about to start my DIY patio. I have a small concrete slab, and I’m planning on using synthetic paver base. What do you recommend me to do with the slab? I already have 1 inch and also half inch pavers.
If I were re-doing the base, I would just tear it out and dispose of it. If it is still in good shape though, you could also consider a concrete overlay instead of synthetic paver base panels.
@@iamahardscaper isn’t there a cheaper way to use them both? Use the concrete slab and a mix of the synthetic base in the parts that there’s no concrete?
Hi i bought these brocks panel from Home depot along with step 2 sand. I saw videos where they put sand first then the Brock paver panels and some videos put sand on top of the Brock panels . I'm confused what goes first. Please help. I'm trying the make a small walk way with 16x16 step stones from home depot.
Nonwoven geotextile, then sand, compact the sand, then panels. You can put sand on top of the panels as well, but that is more for product with variations in thickness like natural stone
@@iamahardscaperHi Michael, please help 🙏 I had the same question but also confused why sand is being recommended here - based on your panel videos, I thought it was: Geotextile on top of existing dirt, 1” HPB, panel, paver, then sand between joints.
So glad I came across this video! I currently have a patio and walkway of pavers against my foundation, there is some sloping towards the foundation and water pooling. There is limestone base and 2" of sand under the pavers. Could I install base panels on top of the sand to help raise and grade away, or should I remove the sand and add more limestone (1/4 or 3/4 down, 1/4 or 3/4 clean ?) and sand instead? Zone 3a btw.
Hi Michael. Congrats on your great channel. I am out in Southern California and am currently tackling my own DIY SAND SET paver project. I am using synthetic base panels AND my porcelain paver is of course 3/4". I don't use any crush base. After the weed barrier cloth and 1/2" of lightly hand-compacted sand, the base goes on top of that. When I placed the paver, I found that it is still have some gives, hence it does not fill like a solid paver surface. Please tell me what I missed. Also, your clip on HFB material for screeding. What is the equivalent out here in So Cal because nobody knows HFB. :) Peter
Hi Peter, it is more and more difficult to find HPB the further south you go. Best chance is to contact your local suppliers to see if they have something similar. As for your base panels, there will be movement until you install a jointing compound. That locks things up. It is recommended you use a tile spacer on top of the base panels for this install, I don't know if you've checked that out. But that will give you appropriate spacing to then be able to install the jointing compound.
I'm sure there are great contractors in Chicago. Mike at Creekside Outdoor Living is close. I wouldn't lay panels on top of a concrete patio. You can lay pavers on top of a concrete patio. Here is our video explaining that process: ruclips.net/video/kpgvY9uEJjE/видео.htmlsi=TGHtkRykE9H9ZoPX
Hi! Thanks so much for taking the time to make all these informative videos. Question on using the paver base and laying down pavers next to a sitting wall that is installed on a traditional base. According to Gator Base, the paver base panel needs to extend 6 inches from the end of the pavers. However, if the pavers (on the Gator Base) will butt up next to the sitting wall (on a traditional base) this of course violates the “6 inch rule” for the pavers on the Gator Base. What has been your experience in these situations? Is the “6 inch rule” for pavers on the Gator Base only needed to accommodate edging support (which the sitting wall should provide). Or is that additional 6” space on the Gator Base needed for some other reason? Thanks again for all the videos!
Can you butt up a base panel install to a portion of pavers that will be installed using open graded base? Pavers installed on open graded base will compact 1/8" to 1/4", will pavers installed on base panels compact less than that or the same?
You can, but you will possibly experience a difference in movement between the two sections. So over time there could be a distinct pattern of movement up or down between those two areas. Using base panels, you will almost have no loss. This is because if you are using sand you need to compact the sand first before laying out the panels. That would mean screeding, compacting, and then re-levelling before laying the panels. HPB (1/4" chip) works better because you don't need to compact first. With either of these you will lose basically nothing in height.
The Alliance Gator people specify compaction of the bedding sand (by hand tamping) but in professional installer videos they don't compact the sand. Can anyone explain?
Yes, when using sand you have to compact it and then fix any irregularities after compacting before laying the panels. But with HPB (1/4" chip) you do not have to compact it.
@@iamahardscaper I can see why you're a fan of the HPB. I don't like making the sand all properly sloped and flat with the screeding, just to make it all bumpy with the hand tamper.
We have clay soils that can get very sloppy. I read the Brock instructions and it tells me to tamp the soil by hand and then add the 1/2" of and and then the Brock panels. Knowing how "squishy" our clay soil can get, this just seems like not enough. Thoughts, from your professional experience?
We have dense clay. Especially if squishy, dig a little less than an inch more, lay down a fine layer of 3/4” crushed clean stone, sprinkle some Portland cement, and compact that with a vibratory compactor into your clay. Lay your fabric, screed (if sand you need to compact sand which is inconvenient, we use 1/4” crushed clean), panels, pavers
Would you recommend using this over existing concrete that’s in good shape? No videos on RUclips about laying pavers over existing concrete mention these.
Great Vid. I would like your advice. We are putting in a flagstone patio in our backyard where there used to be a raised beds, play structure, etc. There was no grass to remove. The ground is very gravelly mixed with dirt. It is not extremely flat nor gel but the dirt is very loose (not heavy clay or organic!). (Our son built a tumbled cement black fire pit right on the dirt that has not moved at all over the past few years. We're in the Pacific Northwest with rainy mild weather. It will be hard to lay gravel because there is no easy way to get it back behind the house, downgrade slope to the area, but we thought we had to... until we saw this option. SO, do you think leveling and tamping with a layer of snd under the synthetic base is a reasonable alternative to 4" gravel, hand carried and hand tamped, then sand, then the flagstone pavers? THANKS!!!
We use these panels in Toronto which experiences lots of freeze thaw cycles each year. They hold up amazing. For flagstone that is irregular in heights you will need to also use sand on top to the panels to be able to level them. But yes without seeing your site in person and the soil, it is a good option.
Glad to find this video, looking forward to lay 12x14 paver patio on flat terrain here in Montreal area. Aiming to use synthetic base, HPB as base and nonwoven fabric. Is digging only 2in to remove the grass would be enough? Is HPB better than sand? Any errors/mistakes to avoid?? Thanks in advance
You need to make sure you remove the organic material. You should be hitting native soil like clay or sandy soils. That is the biggest error to avoid. Compact your subsoil and use the materials you mentioned. Use HPB it is much better. Let me know if you have any other questions!
My backyard currently has over 4% slope and therefore I will have disturbed soil at the rear end to bring it 1.5% slope. My house has a walkout basement and bringing gravel down to the backyard is quite an effort. The synthetic base will save that effort as I plan to install 1900 sq feet of pavers. Can I use the synthetic base on the disturbed clay-type soil area?
Is that excavated material? You will need to ensure proper compaction. Not just a small compactor but something that will be able to compact that along with a jumping jack.
If using synthetic paver base panels - when applying polymeric sand after the pavers are laid, do you typically still use a plate compactor during this step to ensure the sand gets packed between the joints?
Can you use the plastic edge restraint and then add concrete on top of it? is that just redundant or counter productive? Thanks for your videos! Will be starting my project soon: have a 10 X 14 section with a decent slope, was debating if I should use synthetic base or not.
I think it’s counter productive because now when that plastic edge heaves it will heave the concrete as well. Good luck with the project! Glad to hear the videos help
I already have gravel on my backyard, but I wanna put a shed (bought at Costco). Can I just install these plastic pavers on my gravel then put the shed on top of these plastic pavers? Thanks
I live in Central Florida and the soil is all sand. I dug 36inches to install a hammock post and it was all very loose sand. Am I still able to use these panels if I compact the native sandy soil, or should I opt for a gravel base?
You do not need to compact your bedding layer. Lay the pavers, install jointing compound, then compact to consolidate the compound to bottom of joint. Yes, fill the voids 👍
@@iamahardscaper Thanks for your reply Mike. A quick follow up question. Is it ok to use plate compactor on top of the paver when using gator base after spreading the joint sand?
Yup. You do need to have something between the compactor and the pavers to protect them from scuffing. We use a pad on our compactor. Always start with a small area and continue through the project
I have not. I don’t know how it would work because there is some give when you walk on the synthetic base, even when the pavers have been laid on it until you install the jointing compound. Because nothing locks up the turf like the jointing compound does, I think you would feel that give when you walk on it
@@iamahardscaper I am repairing my pool lines that are only 15-18 inches deep and currently under some old pavers. I was thinking of using this system so that I can lay a new patio and also for easier access to the lines in the event of a leak down the line. Do you think this is a smart idea?
Hey man, thanks for your videos. Very useful. One quick question for you. I hope you can help me. What do you think if after using the weed barrier textile, I put stone dust and on top of that the synthetic Paver Base panels.
Hi, I am planning on using paver panels for a project, but my screed layer will be sand. I was wondering whether I need to compact that sand before putting in the panels or if I only need to screed it. Thanks!
Great video -- probably the most detailed on the subject on YT -- can you use paver base panels under brick or just pavers?
Clay brick? There are more inconsistencies in heights with clay brick. You can but you may need to screed another layer of concrete sand on top of the panels so you can level the brick easily.
thanks for getting back to me -- this is the best hardscape channel on YT hands down
I used the hard plastic interlocking ones under my jacuzi area and they are super super easy.
Ah that’s a good application!
@@iamahardscaper what is the name of the "synthetic base hard plastic ..grid type plastic that snaps in place"? Im searching all the key words and nothing pops up.
What alternatives are there to Brock's paver base? You were talking about some grid type but didn't say what they were.
Gator Base and EZ Base
Thanks for the great insights. I'm considering using Gator panels following with the steps you've detailed for a 12' x 12' paver area. My neighbor who has done hardscaping for years using traditional methods seems skeptial this approach will hold up through long term freeze and thaw cycles in northern Indiana. Do you have examples of longevity and the ability of this approach to perform over the long term? Thanks.
Most are skeptical until they use it. My oldest job is 6 years and still looks brand new. It is a great product. You just need to make sure that you are not installing it on soil. It needs to be subsoil (clay, sand)
Thank you very for creating all these informative videos. I am planning to lay a walkway using these synthetic base panels this spring, however, I cannot fond them in any of local big box stores. I live in the Niagara region (Ontario side) and have not been able to fond Gator panels. It seems Rona carries Brock pavers. Are these two brands different?
Yes, I believe Brock licenses it out to the other companies. But the Brock panels do not have the tongue and groove system. Any landscape supplier near you should have them or have access to them. Either Gator Base (Alliance) or Next Base (TechniSeal). I am in Toronto, you shouldn't have a problem finding it.
Thanks for this video! If I need a 6 inch retaining wall under one edge of my patio, do I lay paverbase on top of the wall or do i butt paverbase up against the back of the wall?
But it up to the back of the wall 👍
Great video. I’m about to start my DIY patio. I have a small concrete slab, and I’m planning on using synthetic paver base. What do you recommend me to do with the slab? I already have 1 inch and also half inch pavers.
If I were re-doing the base, I would just tear it out and dispose of it. If it is still in good shape though, you could also consider a concrete overlay instead of synthetic paver base panels.
@@iamahardscaper isn’t there a cheaper way to use them both? Use the concrete slab and a mix of the synthetic base in the parts that there’s no concrete?
Yup you can definitely do that
@@iamahardscaper I know how to do the pavers out of the concrete. How would be the installation of the pavers on the concrete slab?
Great Video!... What is the brand of the level you are using?
Thank you! Ox tools
Hi i bought these brocks panel from Home depot along with step 2 sand. I saw videos where they put sand first then the Brock paver panels and some videos put sand on top of the Brock panels . I'm confused what goes first. Please help.
I'm trying the make a small walk way with 16x16 step stones from home depot.
Nonwoven geotextile, then sand, compact the sand, then panels. You can put sand on top of the panels as well, but that is more for product with variations in thickness like natural stone
@@iamahardscaperHi Michael, please help 🙏 I had the same question but also confused why sand is being recommended here - based on your panel videos, I thought it was: Geotextile on top of existing dirt, 1” HPB, panel, paver, then sand between joints.
So glad I came across this video! I currently have a patio and walkway of pavers against my foundation, there is some sloping towards the foundation and water pooling. There is limestone base and 2" of sand under the pavers. Could I install base panels on top of the sand to help raise and grade away, or should I remove the sand and add more limestone (1/4 or 3/4 down, 1/4 or 3/4 clean ?) and sand instead? Zone 3a btw.
i wouldnt go more than 1.5" of sand for your bedding layer.
Hi Michael. Congrats on your great channel. I am out in Southern California and am currently tackling my own DIY SAND SET paver project. I am using synthetic base panels AND my porcelain paver is of course 3/4". I don't use any crush base. After the weed barrier cloth and 1/2" of lightly hand-compacted sand, the base goes on top of that. When I placed the paver, I found that it is still have some gives, hence it does not fill like a solid paver surface. Please tell me what I missed. Also, your clip on HFB material for screeding. What is the equivalent out here in So Cal because nobody knows HFB. :) Peter
Hi Peter, it is more and more difficult to find HPB the further south you go. Best chance is to contact your local suppliers to see if they have something similar. As for your base panels, there will be movement until you install a jointing compound. That locks things up. It is recommended you use a tile spacer on top of the base panels for this install, I don't know if you've checked that out. But that will give you appropriate spacing to then be able to install the jointing compound.
I’m new here, wish there were someone in Chicago like you! Can we lay pavers directly on top of the base panels, on top our existing concrete patio?
I'm sure there are great contractors in Chicago. Mike at Creekside Outdoor Living is close.
I wouldn't lay panels on top of a concrete patio. You can lay pavers on top of a concrete patio. Here is our video explaining that process:
ruclips.net/video/kpgvY9uEJjE/видео.htmlsi=TGHtkRykE9H9ZoPX
Hi! Thanks so much for taking the time to make all these informative videos.
Question on using the paver base and laying down pavers next to a sitting wall that is installed on a traditional base. According to Gator Base, the paver base panel needs to extend 6 inches from the end of the pavers. However, if the pavers (on the Gator Base) will butt up next to the sitting wall (on a traditional base) this of course violates the “6 inch rule” for the pavers on the Gator Base.
What has been your experience in these situations? Is the “6 inch rule” for pavers on the Gator Base only needed to accommodate edging support (which the sitting wall should provide). Or is that additional 6” space on the Gator Base needed for some other reason?
Thanks again for all the videos!
Yes, when butting up to hard surfaces that don’t move (foundations, walls, etc.) you don’t need the base extension.
Can you butt up a base panel install to a portion of pavers that will be installed using open graded base? Pavers installed on open graded base will compact 1/8" to 1/4", will pavers installed on base panels compact less than that or the same?
You can, but you will possibly experience a difference in movement between the two sections. So over time there could be a distinct pattern of movement up or down between those two areas.
Using base panels, you will almost have no loss. This is because if you are using sand you need to compact the sand first before laying out the panels. That would mean screeding, compacting, and then re-levelling before laying the panels. HPB (1/4" chip) works better because you don't need to compact first. With either of these you will lose basically nothing in height.
@@iamahardscaper thanks for your thorough response. I never thought of the distinct pattern of movement.
The Alliance Gator people specify compaction of the bedding sand (by hand tamping) but in professional installer videos they don't compact the sand. Can anyone explain?
Yes, when using sand you have to compact it and then fix any irregularities after compacting before laying the panels. But with HPB (1/4" chip) you do not have to compact it.
@@iamahardscaper I can see why you're a fan of the HPB. I don't like making the sand all properly sloped and flat with the screeding, just to make it all bumpy with the hand tamper.
We have clay soils that can get very sloppy. I read the Brock instructions and it tells me to tamp the soil by hand and then add the 1/2" of and and then the Brock panels. Knowing how "squishy" our clay soil can get, this just seems like not enough. Thoughts, from your professional experience?
We have dense clay. Especially if squishy, dig a little less than an inch more, lay down a fine layer of 3/4” crushed clean stone, sprinkle some Portland cement, and compact that with a vibratory compactor into your clay. Lay your fabric, screed (if sand you need to compact sand which is inconvenient, we use 1/4” crushed clean), panels, pavers
@@iamahardscaperThank you for the advice!
Would you recommend using this over existing concrete that’s in good shape? No videos on RUclips about laying pavers over existing concrete mention these.
No, I wouldn’t. I think that’d be a waste of money and time. The concrete itself is taking care of what these are doing for the most part.
Great Vid. I would like your advice. We are putting in a flagstone patio in our backyard where there used to be a raised beds, play structure, etc. There was no grass to remove. The ground is very gravelly mixed with dirt. It is not extremely flat nor gel but the dirt is very loose (not heavy clay or organic!). (Our son built a tumbled cement black fire pit right on the dirt that has not moved at all over the past few years. We're in the Pacific Northwest with rainy mild weather.
It will be hard to lay gravel because there is no easy way to get it back behind the house, downgrade slope to the area, but we thought we had to... until we saw this option.
SO, do you think leveling and tamping with a layer of snd under the synthetic base is a reasonable alternative to 4" gravel, hand carried and hand tamped, then sand, then the flagstone pavers?
THANKS!!!
We use these panels in Toronto which experiences lots of freeze thaw cycles each year. They hold up amazing. For flagstone that is irregular in heights you will need to also use sand on top to the panels to be able to level them. But yes without seeing your site in person and the soil, it is a good option.
Glad to find this video, looking forward to lay 12x14 paver patio on flat terrain here in Montreal area.
Aiming to use synthetic base, HPB as base and nonwoven fabric.
Is digging only 2in to remove the grass would be enough? Is HPB better than sand?
Any errors/mistakes to avoid??
Thanks in advance
You need to make sure you remove the organic material. You should be hitting native soil like clay or sandy soils. That is the biggest error to avoid. Compact your subsoil and use the materials you mentioned. Use HPB it is much better. Let me know if you have any other questions!
@@iamahardscapershould i compact the HPB after screeding?
Nope. You would have to if you used concrete sand.
where did you buy the HPB or the concrete sand. I can't find them
My backyard currently has over 4% slope and therefore I will have disturbed soil at the rear end to bring it 1.5% slope. My house has a walkout basement and bringing gravel down to the backyard is quite an effort. The synthetic base will save that effort as I plan to install 1900 sq feet of pavers. Can I use the synthetic base on the disturbed clay-type soil area?
Is that excavated material? You will need to ensure proper compaction. Not just a small compactor but something that will be able to compact that along with a jumping jack.
If using synthetic paver base panels - when applying polymeric sand after the pavers are laid, do you typically still use a plate compactor during this step to ensure the sand gets packed between the joints?
Yup for sure 👍 always protect the pavers with a mat
Thanks much appreciated!@@iamahardscaper
Can you use the plastic edge restraint and then add concrete on top of it? is that just redundant or counter productive?
Thanks for your videos! Will be starting my project soon: have a 10 X 14 section with a decent slope, was debating if I should use synthetic base or not.
I think it’s counter productive because now when that plastic edge heaves it will heave the concrete as well. Good luck with the project! Glad to hear the videos help
What is the product name and manufacturer of this new type of paver base for driveways that you mention in the video?
EasyClick bae by azpects
I already have gravel on my backyard, but I wanna put a shed (bought at Costco). Can I just install these plastic pavers on my gravel then put the shed on top of these plastic pavers? Thanks
No that won’t work
I live in Central Florida and the soil is all sand. I dug 36inches to install a hammock post and it was all very loose sand. Am I still able to use these panels if I compact the native sandy soil, or should I opt for a gravel base?
Yup, you can definitely use these panels
Looking forward to it.
👍
Does anyone know if this base is available in the UK
Try looking for Brock panels. But it’s real application is for freeze thaw climates
So, for a walkway along the side of the house, you would not use HPB, only paver base?
HPB would be my bedding layer for the paver base. But I may also use a dense grade base which will be Fridays video
Hi Mike, if I use HPB as the bedding layer, do I need to compact them after screeding or can just fill the void where the pipes are ?
You do not need to compact your bedding layer. Lay the pavers, install jointing compound, then compact to consolidate the compound to bottom of joint. Yes, fill the voids 👍
@@iamahardscaper Thanks for your reply Mike. A quick follow up question. Is it ok to use plate compactor on top of the paver when using gator base after spreading the joint sand?
Yup. You do need to have something between the compactor and the pavers to protect them from scuffing. We use a pad on our compactor. Always start with a small area and continue through the project
Whether you do 10inch or 5 inch excavation, you still need machine to complete the work right?
Yeah I wouldn’t hand dig personally
I’m currently digging mines now. It’s a lot of labor but I’m doing it a little by time. I’m using a tiller to break the soil up and it’s helping a lot
Nice!
Can use a synthetic base for artificial turf grass install? Has anyone tried this before? I’m thinking of doing it
I have not. I don’t know how it would work because there is some give when you walk on the synthetic base, even when the pavers have been laid on it until you install the jointing compound. Because nothing locks up the turf like the jointing compound does, I think you would feel that give when you walk on it
Would you use these for pool paver decking?
For a base for pavers for a pool patio? Yes I’ve done that and it works great
@@iamahardscaper I am repairing my pool lines that are only 15-18 inches deep and currently under some old pavers. I was thinking of using this system so that I can lay a new patio and also for easier access to the lines in the event of a leak down the line. Do you think this is a smart idea?
Hey man, thanks for your videos. Very useful. One quick question for you. I hope you can help me. What do you think if after using the weed barrier textile, I put stone dust and on top of that the synthetic Paver Base panels.
Stone dust doesn’t drain well enough to be used. 1/4” clean chip or concrete sand only
"Ewout"
🤔
Hi, I am planning on using paver panels for a project, but my screed layer will be sand. I was wondering whether I need to compact that sand before putting in the panels or if I only need to screed it. Thanks!
The manufacturer recommends that you compact it prior to laying the panels down. You may need to level it again after compacting as well.