@@Jdjsksjdhdj Even with fastest NVMe PCIe 4.0, the game will still load slowly because we are limited by our current disk IO APIs. In summary, the tools and functions to load the data from disks, given by the operating system, are old and designed to work on the lowest common denominator, as such it does not scale well and the hardware is underutilised. In the case of NVMe for example, it gives you multiple queues which you can use to load the data, but usually only one is used, and the others are unused. Fortunately, with NVMe SSDs coming to consoles, Microsoft is working on DirectStorage, which will can utilise NVMe to the max and loading screens will finally be super short.
Thank you so much for this video dude. I kept thinking there was something horribly wrong with my computer, and this video proves that it's just mandatory to have an SSD. I cant believe this game loads so shit without one.
I couldn't even return the damn garbage game because I had already had 2 hours of "gameplay" . Even tho I only was able to play 2 battles and the rest of the times sitting in loading screens between literally ANYTHING for a fucking century. Ive never been so disappointed in a game that I was so excited for, in my entire life.
Even with fastest NVMe PCIe 4.0, the game will still load slowly because we are limited by our current disk IO APIs. In summary, the tools and functions to load the data from disks, given by the operating system, are old and designed to work on the lowest common denominator, as such it does not scale well and the hardware is underutilised. In the case of NVMe for example, it gives you multiple queues which you can use to load the data, but usually only one is used, and the others are unused. Fortunately, with NVMe SSDs coming to consoles, Microsoft is working on DirectStorage, which will can utilise NVMe to the max and loading screens will finally be super short.
The "BUY AN SSD!" is a copout excuse for absolutely abysmal optimization. If Fallout 4 can load its entire map in around 40-60 seconds on my machine, there is absolutely no reason Total War's significantly smaller campaign map should take this long. This is outrageous.
@@Bellonii You have to be an absolute top-tier idiot to think that games won't work with an HDD anymore. How stupid are you? And I have an SSD, me having or not having an SSD does not suddenly justify this abysmal optimization.
@@bud389 HDDs have always been shit. Firstly they are mechanical which means that in order to load the data you have to wait for a physical piece of metal to move over a physical section of another metal, which is not only slow in itself, but when multiple programs want to read a lot of data it has to travel back and forth which introduces latencies that sometimes span multiple seconds, also they break more often and their max speed is just 4x slower than what SATA SSDs are capable of and as much as 20x slower than NVMe SSDs. Secondly, you have to be a top tier idiot to think that people can keep playing big AAA titles that will be coming out in the future with a shitty 7200RPM hard drive capable of 200MB/s read speeds max. Nobody said that games won't work with HDDs, some small indie games may still run fine, but for bigger games you'll have loading times which go into tens of minutes. With large, open worlds, filled with content HDDs are just not capable. And because programmers have to code for the lowest common denominator, which is HDD, size of some games is approaching 200GB (new COD:MW). Do you know why? Because programmers have to keep copies of assets in multiple places to reduce HDD seek times because otherwise games would be completely unplayable. Who knew that with programmers jumping hoops to overcome limitations of a storage medium of a bygone era will have any disadvantages? Thirdly, even with fastest NVMe PCIe 4.0, the game will still load slowly because we are limited by our current IO APIs. With consoles having HDDs for so long, there was no effort from OS devs to provide better tools and APIs for game programmers because with consoles not gaining anything, it was just not worth it. So for CA to improve load times beyond what they are currently, they would have to make a fuckton of effort writing some kind of custom implementation that would have bugs of their own and eat precious dev time, not to mention that DirectStorage is coming in a year or two, and their custom implementation would no longer be necessary. So kindly fuck off with your "muh lazy gamedevs" entitled attitude. HDDs are obsolete, deal with it.
@@bud389 And to respond to the claim that "Fallout 4 loads the entire map in 40 seconds on the HDD, why can't total war"? They are different games with different priorities and design decisions. For example, Fallout 4 does not "load entire map in 40 seconds", because it has not enough memory to keep in it the entire map, it loads a **section** of the map and then loads next sections as you travel. Total War Warhammer does not do that because you need to be able to view any section of the map at any time, so it does load the entire map, while Fallout 4 does not. TWW also has to keep more assets in memory all the time, because some some optimisations that are possible in Action RPG game are not possible in a game like Total War. Also, the fact that you cite Bethesda Creation Engine as an example of good optimisation is just beyond me XD Have you seen the shitshow that is Fallout 76? At least in Warhammer, the multiplayer works.
I'm surprised to turn load time is affected, I expected the game to have everything loaded and just run through all the factions' actions. This is great info to have.
Shit! no wonder loading takes ages on my laptop hdd hahaha. Doing 15 push ups, 10 burpees and still have plenty of time to catch my breath while watching a youtube video.
I just bought an ssd, I have an hdd with years and I think it don't work properly, I charge the campaign more or less in 4-5 min and 3-4 min for enter a battle. Even on sistem sometimes it takes a few seconds to open a folder. I have an ryzen 5 1600 Af, 8 Gb RAM 2600Mhz, and Rx580 4Gb. I left playing this game cause of this much time charging, I can't wait to test this new ssd, will be a giant change for sure.
Okay first off what song is that lol if only they played stuff like that in the total war games and the load of the turn is based on ram and your computer. I have a pretty powerful pc with 32 ram and turns go pretty fast. It’s just the load times to battles that take forever. I have an external hdd
Hey, these are the specs of my computer: Ryzen 7 1800x, 16gb RAM, RX480 OC 8gb. As for the HDD either it was a Seagate ST1000DM003 1tb or Western Digital WD10EZRX also 1tb. The SSD was Samsung SSD 860 EVO 1tb. The turn test wasn't done in the same turn, because I didn't really plan this test (also diplomacy kinda hindered), but the latest save I have is from turn 14, so pretty much at the beginning of the game, without vision outside of the main area. Keep in mind that it is from the Mortal Empires campaign, which has included all the factions and map area from the first Warhammer game, probably doubling the turn load from the "normal" Eye of the Vortex campaign.
I cant even download/play mortal empires .. even tho I've downloaded it like a number of times in a fkn row........ And still I have to wait like 5 to 10 minutes between every single battle, movement, or fuckong anything. I cant put into words how much I hate this game and how much I regret buying it. Cant even return cause I've spent that much fucking time stuck in god damn fucking load screens that I'm over the 2 hours minimum required for a refund. So honestly fuck this game and the entire shit storm it rode in on .
Optimization is not horrible, it's HDDs that have always been terrible when it comes to performance, they have long and varying access times, are mechanical and thus more faulty than flash based storage, even windows itself runs like absolute shit on HDDs (it could run better if not for NTFS being so shit, it also introduces overhead in games' loading screens, but i digress). It's not just TW Warhammer, any AAA game that needs to load a lot of data feels terrible if played off of HDD.
@@Bravo-oo9vd , idk, I never used SSDs and TW2 is the only game where loading times were killing me so much it made the game literally (like, literally literally) unplayable. Also it depends on a game. When I and another guy compared our loading times of a Warband mod, my old HDD somehow did better than his SSD.
Great question! It might even not, I'm not that knowledgeable. In the test, as mentioned in the description, they are not from the same turn. I just kinda "assumed" that the factions that are not visible are not loaded in the RAM, hence retrieving the information would vary depending on disk type. Take the info with a lot of salt ;)
@@RapeXtime m2 really doesn't improve it by a lot The difference in gaming between an SSD and an m2 NVME is negligible, in most games it's a second or 2 faster
Honestly these times are ridiculous even with an SSD
i want to see them with a nvme pci 4.0 drive
@@Jdjsksjdhdj i have one anf it takes line 30 sec to load a campaign
my pc loads it from ssd way faster, maybe it has to do with the cpu also
@@Jdjsksjdhdj Even with fastest NVMe PCIe 4.0, the game will still load slowly because we are limited by our current disk IO APIs. In summary, the tools and functions to load the data from disks, given by the operating system, are old and designed to work on the lowest common denominator, as such it does not scale well and the hardware is underutilised. In the case of NVMe for example, it gives you multiple queues which you can use to load the data, but usually only one is used, and the others are unused. Fortunately, with NVMe SSDs coming to consoles, Microsoft is working on DirectStorage, which will can utilise NVMe to the max and loading screens will finally be super short.
@@Bravo-oo9vd to bad total war games are for computers and unless they decide to utilize it they won't utilize it.
Nice test! I love total war but my hdd keeping me stress in this game
Thank you so much for this video dude. I kept thinking there was something horribly wrong with my computer, and this video proves that it's just mandatory to have an SSD. I cant believe this game loads so shit without one.
Waiting 3 minutes to load the map on ssd still ridiculous.
CA should do something about this.
They won't do nothing because the fools are still buying their games
cheap dram-less SSDs do that basically HDD speeds. my samsung evo 860 250gb loads exactly like in the video
Suppose it's a testament to how good this game is that it became popular with load times like this. I returned it. Felt myself aging.
I couldn't even return the damn garbage game because I had already had 2 hours of "gameplay" .
Even tho I only was able to play 2 battles and the rest of the times sitting in loading screens between literally ANYTHING for a fucking century.
Ive never been so disappointed in a game that I was so excited for, in my entire life.
Great work, SSD's are an absolute must have for Total War nowadays.
im not a game dev, but there must be a way to optimize this. the loading screen should always take a matter of seconds. not minutes.
Even with fastest NVMe PCIe 4.0, the game will still load slowly because we are limited by our current disk IO APIs. In summary, the tools and functions to load the data from disks, given by the operating system, are old and designed to work on the lowest common denominator, as such it does not scale well and the hardware is underutilised. In the case of NVMe for example, it gives you multiple queues which you can use to load the data, but usually only one is used, and the others are unused. Fortunately, with NVMe SSDs coming to consoles, Microsoft is working on DirectStorage, which will can utilise NVMe to the max and loading screens will finally be super short.
The "BUY AN SSD!" is a copout excuse for absolutely abysmal optimization. If Fallout 4 can load its entire map in around 40-60 seconds on my machine, there is absolutely no reason Total War's significantly smaller campaign map should take this long. This is outrageous.
HDD are extremly outdated and in the near future games won´t even work with a HDD anymore... so buy a SSD for GOD DAMN 30 BUCKS U POOR BASTARD
@@Bellonii or in the near future games there wouldn't be loading screens
@@Bellonii You have to be an absolute top-tier idiot to think that games won't work with an HDD anymore. How stupid are you? And I have an SSD, me having or not having an SSD does not suddenly justify this abysmal optimization.
@@bud389 HDDs have always been shit.
Firstly they are mechanical which means that in order to load the data you have to wait for a physical piece of metal to move over a physical section of another metal, which is not only slow in itself, but when multiple programs want to read a lot of data it has to travel back and forth which introduces latencies that sometimes span multiple seconds, also they break more often and their max speed is just 4x slower than what SATA SSDs are capable of and as much as 20x slower than NVMe SSDs.
Secondly, you have to be a top tier idiot to think that people can keep playing big AAA titles that will be coming out in the future with a shitty 7200RPM hard drive capable of 200MB/s read speeds max. Nobody said that games won't work with HDDs, some small indie games may still run fine, but for bigger games you'll have loading times which go into tens of minutes. With large, open worlds, filled with content HDDs are just not capable. And because programmers have to code for the lowest common denominator, which is HDD, size of some games is approaching 200GB (new COD:MW). Do you know why? Because programmers have to keep copies of assets in multiple places to reduce HDD seek times because otherwise games would be completely unplayable.
Who knew that with programmers jumping hoops to overcome limitations of a storage medium of a bygone era will have any disadvantages?
Thirdly, even with fastest NVMe PCIe 4.0, the game will still load slowly because we are limited by our current IO APIs. With consoles having HDDs for so long, there was no effort from OS devs to provide better tools and APIs for game programmers because with consoles not gaining anything, it was just not worth it. So for CA to improve load times beyond what they are currently, they would have to make a fuckton of effort writing some kind of custom implementation that would have bugs of their own and eat precious dev time, not to mention that DirectStorage is coming in a year or two, and their custom implementation would no longer be necessary.
So kindly fuck off with your "muh lazy gamedevs" entitled attitude. HDDs are obsolete, deal with it.
@@bud389 And to respond to the claim that "Fallout 4 loads the entire map in 40 seconds on the HDD, why can't total war"?
They are different games with different priorities and design decisions. For example, Fallout 4 does not "load entire map in 40 seconds", because it has not enough memory to keep in it the entire map, it loads a **section** of the map and then loads next sections as you travel.
Total War Warhammer does not do that because you need to be able to view any section of the map at any time, so it does load the entire map, while Fallout 4 does not.
TWW also has to keep more assets in memory all the time, because some some optimisations that are possible in Action RPG game are not possible in a game like Total War.
Also, the fact that you cite Bethesda Creation Engine as an example of good optimisation is just beyond me XD Have you seen the shitshow that is Fallout 76? At least in Warhammer, the multiplayer works.
I'm surprised to turn load time is affected, I expected the game to have everything loaded and just run through all the factions' actions. This is great info to have.
Shit! no wonder loading takes ages on my laptop hdd hahaha. Doing 15 push ups, 10 burpees and still have plenty of time to catch my breath while watching a youtube video.
@San the Man I bought an ssd few months ago, now im 12 lbs heavier LOL!
looool dude i have to wait for almost 10 min sometimes when i start a campaign on mortal empire this is amazing 2 min for HDD
I just spent 5 minutes of my life watching someone else's game loading while listening to a pirate theme. YAARRR!!!
Mine takes like 10 miutes. 😅
Troy Total War that just came out loads way way faster. It is basically instant from SSD. Shame about Warhammer, maybe they fix it in 3.
Troy only has like 10% contents of Warhammer in comparison.
Wait till 5 years then Troy will get the same long ass loading
I just bought an ssd, I have an hdd with years and I think it don't work properly, I charge the campaign more or less in 4-5 min and 3-4 min for enter a battle. Even on sistem sometimes it takes a few seconds to open a folder. I have an ryzen 5 1600 Af, 8 Gb RAM 2600Mhz, and Rx580 4Gb. I left playing this game cause of this much time charging, I can't wait to test this new ssd, will be a giant change for sure.
Even with SSD that is still too long for loading.
Okay first off what song is that lol if only they played stuff like that in the total war games and the load of the turn is based on ram and your computer. I have a pretty powerful pc with 32 ram and turns go pretty fast. It’s just the load times to battles that take forever. I have an external hdd
Hi, do you remember the turn numbers used in the Turn Load test? And what is the hardware you used, what SSD and what HDD especially? Thanks!
Hey, these are the specs of my computer: Ryzen 7 1800x, 16gb RAM, RX480 OC 8gb. As for the HDD either it was a Seagate ST1000DM003 1tb or Western Digital WD10EZRX also 1tb. The SSD was Samsung SSD 860 EVO 1tb.
The turn test wasn't done in the same turn, because I didn't really plan this test (also diplomacy kinda hindered), but the latest save I have is from turn 14, so pretty much at the beginning of the game, without vision outside of the main area.
Keep in mind that it is from the Mortal Empires campaign, which has included all the factions and map area from the first Warhammer game, probably doubling the turn load from the "normal" Eye of the Vortex campaign.
Phermantos thanks for the reply!
to be fair mortal empires has over 200+ factions to load
I cant even download/play mortal empires .. even tho I've downloaded it like a number of times in a fkn row........
And still I have to wait like 5 to 10 minutes between every single battle, movement, or fuckong anything.
I cant put into words how much I hate this game and how much I regret buying it. Cant even return cause I've spent that much fucking time stuck in god damn fucking load screens that I'm over the 2 hours minimum required for a refund.
So honestly fuck this game and the entire shit storm it rode in on .
@@ThatGuy-ww8kt I had that same issue when i first started playing mortal empires too i had to buy a samsung evo ssd to fix it
SUPER HELPFUL thank you!
i love you, you're awesome
How do you reduce the loading screen time
Lol mines at 12 minutes and still not loaded XD I need a better pc
what is the name of the music?
Look at Vampire coast Trailer
Gosh, what horrible optimization this game has...
Optimization is not horrible, it's HDDs that have always been terrible when it comes to performance, they have long and varying access times, are mechanical and thus more faulty than flash based storage, even windows itself runs like absolute shit on HDDs (it could run better if not for NTFS being so shit, it also introduces overhead in games' loading screens, but i digress). It's not just TW Warhammer, any AAA game that needs to load a lot of data feels terrible if played off of HDD.
@@Bravo-oo9vd , idk, I never used SSDs and TW2 is the only game where loading times were killing me so much it made the game literally (like, literally literally) unplayable.
Also it depends on a game. When I and another guy compared our loading times of a Warband mod, my old HDD somehow did better than his SSD.
Thank you 👌🏅
Hdd is a nightmare
Thanks
how is the ssd able to affect turn times?
Great question! It might even not, I'm not that knowledgeable. In the test, as mentioned in the description, they are not from the same turn. I just kinda "assumed" that the factions that are not visible are not loaded in the RAM, hence retrieving the information would vary depending on disk type. Take the info with a lot of salt ;)
There's a mod on the steam workshop that fixes the long turn timer. It actually works.
@@DragonSlayerCommentariesHQ can you give the name of this mod?
@@TheNachoGuru it's called "Turn-Time Destroyer". It's on the Steam Workshop.
wierd. my turn times never went over 20 secs. i5 4570. 8gb ram. HDD. no mods.
no mention on what kind of SSD? with that increase, I'll assume its an M.2 ?
The SSD is a Samsung SSD 860 EVO 1tb 2,5" SATA III :)
@@codelima Will an M.2 SSD be a better performance than a normal Sata3 2.5" SSD?
@@hateoverlove1 Sorry, I'm not that knowledgeable about hardware, but I believe an M.2 is faster than a SATA III connection
@@codelima it is faster by a lot
@@RapeXtime m2 really doesn't improve it by a lot
The difference in gaming between an SSD and an m2 NVME is negligible, in most games it's a second or 2 faster
1 minute is still very slow
I think the times have been improved
Nop
Even with ssd the loading time is ridiculously long. Poor lazy coding from CA. Pity the fools who bought the game
There is literaly no excuse for this pice of shit game to be this slow on either ssd or hdd it looks like an 15 year old game