At the very best of the concept, it is a maglev with a VERY EXPENSIVE extra step (vacuum tube). If not built in a vacuum environment like the moon, why bother instead of a typical high-speed train and maglev?
The video is factually incorrect, the original hyperloop designed by Elon+Tesla/Spacex engineers is very different and economically viable, it's explained at the wikipedia page for the hyperloop, see also my comment here.
When the hype was big for the loop, I tried to say the physics didn't allow for anyone to make a hyperloop without better technology and materials. I got jumped on by many of the blind supporters. Looks like time has proven me a prophet. It will be nice to have a hyperloop, but the current logistics still can't handle the idea.
Anyone with a shred of common sense would know that the maintainence alone would make a project on this proposed scale unfeasible at best. But Elon simps have never really been known for having common sense, so if they want to waste their money on investing in an inevitable failure I'll just stand back and enjoy the show
@@dano8902That's preposterous. When has Elon ever been wrong, or not delivered on his revolutionary Ideas? Sure they seem like steps of leaps and bounds, but his way of a modest and rational approach is something yet unseen in the world today. Hater's are just mad that he says he'll do the impossible and then deliver's every time, on time ( sometimes ahead of schedule). If anything, they should be mad that he under promises and over delivers.
People really don't realize how ridiculously expensive maglev tech is to build. It needs to be straight, it needs a boatload of tunnels and corrections, all of it needs to be viaducted. It all needs to be automated because humans can't handle speeds like that. Tokyo > Nagoya Maglev = 50 billion dollars for only 285.6 km and thats with a country with 70 years of High Speed train building experience. Tokyo > Morioka = 25 billion dollars for 497 km is the second most expensive line with a comparable number of tunnel kilometers. Shin-Hakodate-Hokuto > Sapporo = 212 kilomters with 80% of it in tunnels is only 15 billion dollars. And people want to put Maglevs in a Vacuum Tube. The costs would be literally unmanageable. And all of this comes with the fact that it offers even less space the conventional high speed rail. Chou Shinkansen is a 2x2 seating configuration while the regular ones are 3x2 meaning a almost 33% drop in overall passenger numbers per train.
@@pewterhacker The maglev is literally 90% underground what right of way? Or are you implying that small stretch of Yamanashi thats the 10% is somehow worth billions?
@@johntheux9238 Because there no point, you'd only get an energy usage reduction and thats a non issue. Wheeled trains are limited by the physics on steel on steel interactions. And when you get to high speed the wheels need to handle ridiculous vibrational and centrifugal forces. The reason the Shinkansen was originally though to be almost impossible was these same issues. Then you have another issue, power delivery. The reason maglev can do speeds it can is because it has wireless, frictionless power delivery. Meanwhile you'd have to design a pantograph to run at 500+ km/h constantly. Then there is also fact that meglev is actually pretty resistant to weather stress, because most of the maglev track is built out of concrete with just the guideway being made out of metal that can be enclosed and shielded it does not suffer the thermal expansion stress of regular train tracks meaning it has to care less about constant maintanance to have the perfect geometry for such high speeds. You would think it being enclosed in a tube would help with the hyperloop but the tube itself would suffer the same problems. Thermal Expansion would he one of the worst nightmares of a hyperloop system trying to maintain a vacuum. You'd have daily movments on the scale of tens of centimeters along the entire tube. Add to that the pressure of the atmosphere and it's a nightmare.
@@Mew178 That's not true, turbines and turbofans will spin just as fast with no issue, the issue with wheels has always been aquaplaning but that's not going to be an issue in a vacuum. Rolling resistance does not increase with speed unlike drag. Continuous welded rails can survive thermal expansion just fine without expansion joints. It's going to be just the same with the hyperloop.
Why is he always attached? He's not been involved for years, didn't invent the concept, there were multiple 'hyperloop' companies in existence before and after his involvement. Don't tar all the people involved with the same brush
California high speed rail is trash. The issue with public infrastructure in the US is buying all the land needed. You need to solve tunneling first if you want to build anything, doesn't matter if it's a train or an hyperloop.
Right, just like all of our intestate highways are under ground.......its ok for land that public infrastructure is built on to be publicly owned, even if it displaces people. As long as they are compensated market value for their property and again for the inconvenience, there is no reason besides someone's arrogant uniformed libertarian notion of freedom that public transportation infrastructure isn't the obvious priority.
The biggest inescapable problem I see with it is expansion and contraction of the material making the tube. Having a single welded piece of pipe that long would have meters of expansion and contraction over the kilometers it travels. Only feasible way I see to get past that is to bury it deep enough underground to where surface temperature fluctuations would have minimal effect, but then any accident would be impossible to get to in a reasonable time, as well as complicating maintenance and increasing expense, and making it impossible to use in tectonically active areas.
If the tube is surrounded by air and there's an accident of any kind, the high velocity all but guarantees that the tube will be locally destroyed, after which the inrushing air will carry debris all the way to both terminals, destroying basically the entire length of the tube. So burying the tube deep inside solid rock would be pretty much mandatory. Not to mention keeping people from shooting at it. But of course making long tunnels in solid rock is insanely expensive, and also means that any accident or malfunction kills everyone from lack of air. All in all, the whole thing is a stupid idea. Take a train or a plane.
Nobody really spent time calculating the cost of building and maintaing a vacuum tube infrastructure. There were claims these were cheaper than conventional rail to build.
I really can't comprehend how anyone wouldn't immediately recognize that the maintainence costs alone of a multiple miles-long vacuum tube large enough to contain a passenger vehicle would be so astronomically high as to render it so impractical it could never be anything more than a titanic money pit...and that's assuming they could get it operating at all. Then there's safety concerns...what if a fire started inside the passenger compartment halfway through a destination? Those people would be as good as dead. To describe the hyperloop as being a folly would be the understatement of the century to anyone with a lick of common sense
@ozzymandius666 right? I don't get why people think they need something new that pre-existing tech already provides. High speed trains already exist; they should just build that!
Elon's original paper describes a very different design that is actually economically viable, you can learn more on the wiki page for the hyperloop. There is also an official paper hosted somewhere at Tesla. This video should mention this design, all the other "hyperloops" aren't really hyperloops, they are just maglevs.
As an american whos been following the hyperloop, I knew it failed and elon never intended for it to be a solution no... it was made intentionally to prevent California's high speed rail from being built as that would affect his car buisness very bs and such a cow'ardly disg'usting move to try and prevent it to be built... adam something talking about this in one of his vids and im not surprised the hyperloop was made to never be an actual solution or a viable concept to be used against the building of against California's HSR in the first place! However i should make it clear Im not good at explaining things but its more of the hyperloop is ment to be a distraction in a way tho i still recommend watc'hing Adam something sense he explains it much better!
Also, how did Hyperloop prevent California's high speed rail being built. I'm not disagreeing with you, I've just genuinely never heard this take before. I struggle to believe this since Tesla sells cars all over the world, but I'm really interested in hearing what you have to say.
Tech industry scams like this are incredibly frustrating. We could have a better world if people weren't wasting their money and time on projects that aren't going anywhere.
Finally someone other than thunderf00t puts this infeasible idea to rest EDIT: No, both sides don't have valid arguments. It is simply too expensive, dangerous, and downright impossible to make giant vacuum tube trains which offer only a small advantage. The material science doesn't hold up. We don't have materials to make those tubes long and big enough and withstand environmental effects, and they are simply too dangerous. We can have long tubes that rust and leak, or we have short, extremely expensive tubes which cost a small country's GDP per km and that STILL doesn't address any of the safety issues (earthquakes, accidents, vandalism etc.) all while netting a tiny amount of fuel savings. Just a complete embarrassment for everyone involved. At least we have an easy litmus test, if someone thinks hyperloop is a great idea, they're not good engineers and don't think scientifically EDIT2: 02:50 the hyperloop was "sold" as a train replacement, not a maglev replacement. We don't really need faster maglev trains. We know roughly how far away the stops need to be for the system to be economically feasible. If we go any faster, the acceleration Gs will be uncomfortable or even dangerous for passengers. Already some people avoid maglev trains because of motion sickness. You could accelerate more if the distance between stops was longer, but you end up greatly increasing energy consumption, dangerousness and maintenance for what? To get people to remote locations a little faster? Planes exist, by the way. Maglev trains are ideal for connecting megalopolis/giant metropolitan areas. Planes for long distance. Trains for freight, capacity, density and cost-effectiveness.
What about earthquakes, accidents and vandalism in the case of regular maglevs? If you derail a maglev, it is a death sentence to anyone on board regardless if its in a tube or not.
@@the_aurora Maglevs aren't running in an extreme environment usually reserved for extraordinary manufacturing techniques and the lab. Everything is much worse in the vacuum tube because you're pumping insane energies in. Google "Controlled Demonstration of a Tank Trailer Vacuum Collapse" to see just one of the dangers of a vacuum tube. Maglevs are still dangerous, that's why they take so much resources and planning to build. The issue with hyperloop is that a guy with a pointy rock can destroy the tube.
Airplanes regularlly fly at an altitude that would quickly kill an exposed human and a total vacuum is overkill. Something comparable to the air pressure found at the heights aircraft fly at would still offer massive efficiency gains and is arguably 'as safe' as any pressurized plane.
@@JohnnyWednesday Near perfect vacuum is what they're proposing. The drag increases near-exponentially as you're going from 0 to something. There is little difference in energy expenditure at 500km+ speeds between 1% and 50% atm pressure, but there is a large difference between 0.001% and 100% atm pressure
hey, everyone i got it: we put the car inside the vacuum tube, right? and then we just move the tube at 1600kmh! instead of building all that track! ...
0:26 this is what we call the Balance Fallacy, AKA "BothSidesIsm". 0:59 that's not true; Hyperloop (the concept behind it) traces its roots back to Pneumatic Tube Trains (or Atmospheric Railways for short). Hyperloop is not MagLev; MagLev was not its' inspiration. 2:04 aerodynamics is actually not as much of a big issue as it was being implied here. Let's be real, maintaining a vacuum would be more energy costly than it would have theoretically saved from the Pods. Also, maglevs and conventional (high speed) trains already go fast enough without the tubes.
Maglev trains exist and nobody is building them. why? because the extra price is not worth the time saved. Adding a very expensive and dangerous vacuum on top of that makes no sense whatsoever, Hyperloop has always been vaporware. I would like to remind you that the japanese, french, or even chinese, high speed trains already go well beyond 300km/h, with a fraction of what a maglev costs.
What if, rather than a vacuum, we just arranged it that the air was travelling at the same speed as the train? That also eliminates drag, at the cost of having to move a lot more mass. Effectively, it would be like some of the pneumatic tubes used to transfer small capsules (say, cash from tills) round some commercial buildings. Overall efficiency is, presumably, significantly lower, but there are savings by not having to vacuum-proof the tunnels.
it would lead to problems with trains stoping since the whole air needs to slow down and if there are multiple trains in a tube, what then? also i don’t know how energy intensive it to accelerate that large of an air volume.
What kind of marvel science and energy would you need to move air at 500 km/h let alone 1000 km/h in a 300~500 kilometer tunnel. What kind of insane energy usage would that be.
Even if all of the other issues with this proposal can be resolved, the biggest problem with this thing is: where the hell are they gonna be able to lay a perfectly straight section of tube for this thing so it can actually safely attain its maximum speed? rail always has to account for topography and the cost of this thing is just going to explode if they’re having to drill through every single mountain in its path. The hyper loop is just a worse version of currently-existing high speed rail technologies, especially considering we could be building high speed rail with technology we have available right now instead of hoping for advances in materials that *might* make the vacuum tube idea feasible.
Seems to me that high speed trains would have been faced with a similar arguments when they were proposed to replace regular speed trains. So, ask how the high speed train people solved it and do that again. And, we don't need any advances in materials.
@TheEvilmooseofdoom Yes obviously I’m aware the tunnels go under topography, the issue with tunneling is that it massively increases the cost of any infrastructure project compared to one that’s able to avoid doing this. The problem with hyper loop is that it’s forced to dig through mountains to realize its top speed, which will cause it to be exorbitantly expensive.
You don't need advanced materials for the vacuum chamber, you can just use steel and add stiffeners on the inside to prevent buckling caused by the compressive forces. Steel is actually very flexible, the internal stress caused by thermal expansion in continuous welded rails is far from the yield strength.
Maglev was a relatively hot topic when I was an undergraduate with good work being done by Eric Laithwaite in Imperial College London. You might think that with all the Power Mosfets and IGBT and such used in EVs these days we might be able to produce a more efficient and reliable Maglev design.
Hyperloop on paper looks really promising and as an idea will most likely never die. Just like idea of a space elevator or connecting Europe and Africa via Gibraltar and I think it never should. We should always revisit these ideas and look at them in context of advancements made over decades or centuries. There might come a time when materials, needs, price etc intersect and it becomes the viable solution.
I actually came to say something similar. There's nothing wrong with having taken a serious, updated look at this idea. Not ready? Ok, look again in a few more decades. No problem. In fact, the "I told you so" response that is so common for this stuff is counterproductive. There are so many things we could do better that we give no resources to. It's literally good and productive that we tried and failed. Let's fail more as a species.
At 1,600 km an hour track curvature would be extremely limited before passenger discomfort gets too high. If you can draw an almost straight line between start and destinations points it may be feasible. You can't do that between many cities in the world.
Doomed. Pressurization is the ball game. The rest is known technologies. What have bridges, train tracks and sidewalks have in common? An expansion relief section. As heat is absorb, materials expands and so there needs to be expansion relief sections all along the tube. The way it is traditionally done is with space or with a porous materials that can be easily compressed and/or stretch. With an almost vacuum inside and a 1 atmosphere outside, none of those solution will do. Also, we have to think of the Challenger booster o-ring failure. The magic material that would be use in the expansion relief section must be able expand a lot, stay air tight, support 1 atmosphere of pressure and operate in a range -40°C ro 40°C. No such material exists.
The overarching problem (please excuse the pun) is the temperature differential between the top side and the underside of the tubes which will cause them to bow towards the hotter side.
I've been a fan of your channel and I really love how you edited the video! the sounds and visuals are superb. However, I think visualizing more what's happening when "drag" is pushing against the train or explaining the exact idea of a hyperloop would be easier to understand. I don't think anyone who has never heard much about hyperloops would be able to fully understand the video.
Because it's dumbly contradictory. The issue is drag, so we decrease airpreassure. But then we want to use the air to levitate which will require quite high airpreassure which causes drag. And you would likely want a magnetic track for proppulsion anyways. It's why all the actuall companies formed around Hyperloop went towards maglev. Also: maglev is a more proven technology that has a lot of development saving costs.
What about maintaining the vacuum, the vacuum seals every few tens of meters, maintenance, environmental factors such as being in America which means higher exposure to bullets?
@@KaiserMattTygore927 Yes, that's why the vacuum chamber will have stiffeners on the inside to prevent buckling from the negative pressure difference. Just like the hull of a boat.
@@johntheux9238 Nope. In case of loss of cabin pressure in an airplane, you can just use an oxygen mask. In a vacuum, oxygen masks don't work - your muscles simply wouldn't be strong enough to work against the vacuum. That's why astronauts require pressure suits during lift-off, not just oxygen masks.
LOL Sabine Hossenfelder predicted this 2years ago because of all the technical challenges this idea has to overcome.. in a nut shell, great idea but to many problems to overcome to make it feasible. for those of use following it.. it was just a matter of when Mr Hype himself, Elon, threw the towel in.
Great discussion but when you realy get to the nitty gritty we don't have the technology to create a 1000 mile long tube that can maintain a vacuum through all seasons due to expansion issues. Yes we we could pump out 20 meters and hold it but being honest its never gonna be economical anyway or not for a long while yet....cheers
To be honest if you cant understand how a piece of rail and a hollow tube under vacuum differ, I think we should agree to disagree so things don't get out of hand :)@@johntheux9238
@@andymouse Another thing they all seem to miss is the temperature differential between the topside and underside of the tube, causing it to bow upwards during the day and very probably downwards at night!
Great stuff but recently Apple launched this great VR glasses. If they become common people can do almost anything virtually. You could, for example, have a trip to Bali without the spiders. That technology will come sooner, eliminate 99% of the need to physically travel, and be affordable.
Very good video, yet the head-on collision with air comparison showed the most common sense misconception. Two cars of equal mass going towards each other at 100km/h is equal to crash with a wall at 100km/h.
How do you figure the point of hyperloop was to stop high speed rail.. I suspect you don't really have an understanding and you're just blindly repeating what you were told, not what you know.
Technically possible? Yes. Economically possible? Perhaps, some very dense city centers that could benefit by being connected together. By connecting large cities that are far apart from one another, we could create, in effect, megacities that are capable of acting as a single unit, which could help with the rising cost of living in urban environments due to space constraints. However, we are finding that we can do without living in many of these cities by simply adopting remote work, and going to the cities less frequently. Overall, I think that there are cheaper transportation (e.g., traditional rail, or high speed rail) options out there and that Hyperloop is likely to remain a fiction for all but for the densest city centers, where being connected by Hyperloop would provide substantial economic benefits.
Even on the moon we'd still need to encase the track - while it does not have an atmosphere there's a lot of fine dust due to many factors that is suspended like a fog on the surface - at speed this would become a sand-blaster from hell
I would like to hear some opinions about the Hyperloop, so please reply: If the Hyperloop was a lot longer (like a regular train), and just used the relatively cheap maglev design that many companies came up with, without the crazy expensive tube, would it be a practical high speed transport system? I think so.
What we need is a space elevator hyperloop. A relative short track built on a mountain side that launches a plane into low atmosphere. From there the plane can take advantage of the near zero wind resistance, then descend like a normal airplane.
I really wish the hyperloop would actually become real someday. I like the idea of hoping into a pod and traveling across the country withing in hour or so. That would be so convenient. I heard China is actually working on a hyperloop.
Apart from many others a problem is where does it fit in? For a short distance anything shorter than LA - San Francisco there's no point in going supersonic as travel time will be dominated by getting to the terminal on the metro, waiting for the pod and getting to your destination Doesn't matter if you shave 40 minutes off in the middle. Then for long distances there's a whole lot of 225mBar air available free of charge. You can cruise at mach 0.95 with the comforting exceptional safety record of aviation. But what I worry about is the kinetic energy of a pod 1/2 m V^2- quite a lot. What if the pod decided to swap that for heat, like for instance a maglev bearing failed? The vehicle would get pretty hot and there would be all sorts of fumes and smoke and you'd be in an evacuated concrete tube hundreds of metres from an exit.
@@TheEvilmooseofdoom I do not know. But there was a half mile testing tube set up which probably cost a bundle. Had to be dozens of experts- engineers and the like - getting paid to contribute.
Sometimes its better to invest in what works, then upgrade as tech comes around. We don't even have rail in the US anymore to any meaningful degree. Lets build that out before moving to high speed.
Elon's proposal of Hyperloop was almost like malice disguised in stupidity. The public is pretty much in the dark when it comes to science of these kinds of projects, so taking Elon "the real life Tony Stark" Musk's opinion on it seems like a no-brainer and thus the public can be easily manipulated into being "wow'ed" by the concept. Add to that the fact that Musk's critics voices are usually not that loud in media and are being drowned by all the Muskrats' screaming and you've got a potent ground for misinformation campaigns that are pretty advantageous to the various car manufacturers, especially Tesla. It's not a big secret that Musk is not a fan of transit systems and that's saying it lightly. It's against his financial interests for obvious reasons. He's actively against it as Hyperloop was just a waste of taxpayers' money instead of going into infrastructural projects like passenger rail systems or more robust public bus transportation.
Explain to me why do you have to remove the air inside the tube to near vacuum instead of just blow air at the same speed and direction of the thing moving inside?
Have you calculated the mass of air that will be moving at these speeds, or the energy to maintain it. Then there's the stopping problem and getting passengers on and off...
It would be a good concept if trains/subways haven't been invented yet. Sure, Hyperloop is more efficient, but considering the cost and building, might as well stick to trains and make those more efficient and widely accessible.
It would be good to make a comparison with air travel - in terms of carbon footprint - that is, the cost of all megawatts - here and here, and travel time. That would be useful.
The only places vacuum trains make sense are out in space, where there's naturally a vacuum. Places like the surface of the Moon, or on an orbital ring. Down here on Earth, though? Forget it.
It will most definitely need to be built underground as well. On the surface, it’s just one car crash, natural disaster, terrorist attack or stray bullet from one of the 400,000,000 high velocity poker holers in the United States to catastrophic failure.
In order to destroy citerns, people create vacuum inside the tanks and it instantly collapse on itself unable to support the pressure of the atmosphere, i would never feel safe in a vacuum tube.
@@brendanariki What's the issue? 100 Pa or 1/1000 atmospheric pressure is more than enough if you have an air intake covering the whole cross section of the vehicle. At 1/100 atmospheric pressure you only need one the size of a car's intake.
Remember that the original idea proposed by Elon Musk was not a maglev system. It was much, much dumber then that and was quickly rejected for its stupidity.
It will morgen posibill whif a tube entrance that the train can stay in the vacuum and you just conect a tube from outside to the inside that no air can leack insid
You don't really need maglev or a vacuum tube to go faster, all you need is low air resistance which can be achieved in a tunnel/tube with some engineering tricks.
@@TheEvilmooseofdoom no need for that. heated tunnel will lower air resistance but that requires some smart insulation on the inside of the train. Air conditioners have to be designed differently.
we invent some dirt cheap energy source and some semi-magical materials and boom: hyperloop. Not any time soon. then some crazy fellas sabotage it and boom: no hyperloop
The whole point of the vacuum is that it reduces energy consumption. Go watch the video. And we don't need new materials, steel has already a crazy high elasticity, even when welded the internal stress of the vacuum chamber caused by thermal expansion would only reach 90MPa.
@@istvansipos9940 What issue needs new materials to be solved? Because we have been building vacuum chambers for decades and we can build them under tension to prevent buckling during hot days.
@@johntheux9238 so mankind simply chooses not to build the hyperloop. It could outcompete trains and earn a heap of money, but no capable engineer wants to get rich. Seems legit. :- ) And the issues: I think a several 100 km long tube would buckle on hot days. Or maybe you can keep it straight somehow, but you cannot maintain the vacuum in it. Or maybe you can, but it would cost the GDP of Africa. maybe give it a try. I am easy to convince. I don't think you can build a hyperloop. And the fact that you still have not built one, gives me no reason to think that you can. this trust issue is not that complicated, by the way. right now, the hyperloop seems as crazy as a 100 m sprint within 10 seconds. The only difference: I see 100 m sprints within 10 seconds.
@@istvansipos9940 There are plenty of companies working on the hyperloop. Like HyperloopTT You can build it during summer so it will only be under tension when it shrinks. That's what we do with continuous welded rails. If you want to maintain a vacuum you just need to add stiffeners on the inside to prevent buckling from the negative pressure difference.
A hyperloop using a vacuum is kind of a bad idea (but read the end) even though it works in theory kind of like a hot air balloon lifted by a vacuum. It works in concepts, but the structural engineering problems required to support a vacuum requires such a way that the overall density is not effective using conventional materials and methods. However, it would seem that two difficulties could find common purpose. If one replaces the vacuum with atmospheric pressure hydrogen, then one immediately sees a reduction of drag by a factor of 13.61... A long tube filled with hydrogen would be a good way to transport hydrogen from facilities in places that have easy resources for making hydrogen. Thus we achieve it once a system for transporting hydrogen and cargo/people. This also reduces the structural requirements of the tube dramatically.
And on top of that, a single spark could provide vast areas with along the tracks with a quick burst of heat. Let's not combine transporting people with electricity being the source of acceleration with hydrogen in the same, closed off space!
Little too late to the closing party? Thunderf00t has been pounding on this literally since "the Musk's genius idea" ( hypermusk ? ) was widely propagandized, about 8 or so years ago.
Thunderf00t is a moron though. Steel has been used for compressive loads for over a century, you just need stiffeners to prevent the vacuum chamber from collapsing.
In my eyes it would go in two ways like the Maglev where it takes ungodly amount of time and regulations and a country needing a niche high efficiency transportation at faster speed than the Maglev and then it would happen then the world would try to do the same cuz jealous and etc. the other way is similar but different at first a country tests it with cargo transportation and after like a few years it'll use it in an actual scenario where some others might try make it too and after a while they'll get a hang of it and then it is realised I do think it's going to happen but it won't be like that explosive of an advancement maybe a few space related and some other stuff it'll help upon since new shit to know new shit to make so it'll fill in a few niche stuff like the Maglev but unlike the Maglev it can't really be used everywhere so that's important
30% increase in cost isn't all that bad considering the potential advantages. In theory someone who would want to derail a maglev could do it now and would be a death sentence to anyone on board already.
@sendoh7x well he said "wrapping everything in a tube will increase the cost by at least 30%". Of course that at the very minimum the train itself will be also more expensive but that's just way of things work. First units are always the most expensive.
@@sendoh7x thats the case with maglevs as well. Not to mention nobody is batting an eye on cars, they are by far the most dangerous mode of transportation aside from bikes. Its the same with nuclear energy, everyone is scared of it because of "safety" when in reality its more safe than wind..
Oh yeah, just like Tesla and SpaceX are vaporware LMAO... Hyperloop is pretty much the only thing he never worked directly on, that's why it's taking so long.
@@TheEvilmooseofdoom are you kidding me? Companies and governments invested hundreds of million dollars on pro of concepts, and failed development programs. What Virgin hyperloop alone wasted on it could have put in a light rail system in a medium sized US city.
@@johntheux9238 SpaceX is elons one success and that's mainly because of the dedication of the engineers there. Cyber truck is hardly a success story. Several years late, costs almost double of what was advertised, and it barely works as a truck. People are already afraid to drive it in the rain because the bodies are rusting.
This is the best explanation of why it might be a good idea that I have ever heard. But I still don't think vacuum technology is ready. Maybe in a century as you say. But I don't know if the risk of blowouts can ever be overcome.
Some of the issues with vacuums have been solved with regular high speed rail. Continuous welded rails for example don't need expansion joints, that would help a lot if we want to build a vacuum chamber.
And how do you stop? Just a reminder, air moving that fast would be beyond the Fujita-Scale (i.e. faster than a F12 tornado). You'd literally have to stop hype-tornado scale forces...
I mean, there's a difference between "worse" and "worst" - worst means the subject is the lowest of the low; worse means the subject is more bad compared to another thing.
@@Gelatinocyte2 Technical and literacy issues - typical of so many RUclips creators, but most viewers are another magnitude of ignorance lower so very few could ever realise these errors...
@@johntheux9238 Yes, And try to get it economically viable by ditching the vacuum and the tube and what your left with is something that's barely viable in some very specific location.
At the very best of the concept, it is a maglev with a VERY EXPENSIVE extra step (vacuum tube). If not built in a vacuum environment like the moon, why bother instead of a typical high-speed train and maglev?
because then it'd be a high-speed train, and dicknose wouldn't make any money out of it
They can get rid of the maglev and use wheels though. The main issue with going fast has always been drag.
The video is factually incorrect, the original hyperloop designed by Elon+Tesla/Spacex engineers is very different and economically viable, it's explained at the wikipedia page for the hyperloop, see also my comment here.
@@simkintube economically viable.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
BWAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
@@Jimmeh_B Well yes, the original design uses air bearings instead of magnetic levitation, it's way cheaper.
When the hype was big for the loop, I tried to say the physics didn't allow for anyone to make a hyperloop without better technology and materials. I got jumped on by many of the blind supporters. Looks like time has proven me a prophet. It will be nice to have a hyperloop, but the current logistics still can't handle the idea.
Elon stans are the worst.
A bunch of people way dumber than you also didn't believe the shit coming out of Elon's mouth at the time. Sadly I wasn't one of them
thunderfoot had similar experience :)
Anyone with a shred of common sense would know that the maintainence alone would make a project on this proposed scale unfeasible at best. But Elon simps have never really been known for having common sense, so if they want to waste their money on investing in an inevitable failure I'll just stand back and enjoy the show
@@dano8902That's preposterous. When has Elon ever been wrong, or not delivered on his revolutionary Ideas? Sure they seem like steps of leaps and bounds, but his way of a modest and rational approach is something yet unseen in the world today. Hater's are just mad that he says he'll do the impossible and then deliver's every time, on time ( sometimes ahead of schedule). If anything, they should be mad that he under promises and over delivers.
People really don't realize how ridiculously expensive maglev tech is to build. It needs to be straight, it needs a boatload of tunnels and corrections, all of it needs to be viaducted. It all needs to be automated because humans can't handle speeds like that.
Tokyo > Nagoya Maglev = 50 billion dollars for only 285.6 km and thats with a country with 70 years of High Speed train building experience.
Tokyo > Morioka = 25 billion dollars for 497 km is the second most expensive line with a comparable number of tunnel kilometers.
Shin-Hakodate-Hokuto > Sapporo = 212 kilomters with 80% of it in tunnels is only 15 billion dollars.
And people want to put Maglevs in a Vacuum Tube. The costs would be literally unmanageable.
And all of this comes with the fact that it offers even less space the conventional high speed rail. Chou Shinkansen is a 2x2 seating configuration while the regular ones are 3x2 meaning a almost 33% drop in overall passenger numbers per train.
Yes, why not just use wheels for the hyperloop? Most of the friction comes from drag anyways, not the wheels.
All the points you made are not what is expensive. It's the right-of-way that's expensive.
@@pewterhacker The maglev is literally 90% underground what right of way? Or are you implying that small stretch of Yamanashi thats the 10% is somehow worth billions?
@@johntheux9238 Because there no point, you'd only get an energy usage reduction and thats a non issue. Wheeled trains are limited by the physics on steel on steel interactions. And when you get to high speed the wheels need to handle ridiculous vibrational and centrifugal forces.
The reason the Shinkansen was originally though to be almost impossible was these same issues.
Then you have another issue, power delivery. The reason maglev can do speeds it can is because it has wireless, frictionless power delivery. Meanwhile you'd have to design a pantograph to run at 500+ km/h constantly.
Then there is also fact that meglev is actually pretty resistant to weather stress, because most of the maglev track is built out of concrete with just the guideway being made out of metal that can be enclosed and shielded it does not suffer the thermal expansion stress of regular train tracks meaning it has to care less about constant maintanance to have the perfect geometry for such high speeds.
You would think it being enclosed in a tube would help with the hyperloop but the tube itself would suffer the same problems. Thermal Expansion would he one of the worst nightmares of a hyperloop system trying to maintain a vacuum. You'd have daily movments on the scale of tens of centimeters along the entire tube. Add to that the pressure of the atmosphere and it's a nightmare.
@@Mew178 That's not true, turbines and turbofans will spin just as fast with no issue, the issue with wheels has always been aquaplaning but that's not going to be an issue in a vacuum. Rolling resistance does not increase with speed unlike drag.
Continuous welded rails can survive thermal expansion just fine without expansion joints. It's going to be just the same with the hyperloop.
It's almost like Elon is just a troll, in this case he successfully trolled the high speed railway in California. Dudes an egomaniac
Also a genius, extremely rich and incredibly successful at taking an idea to not just a product but an extremely successful one.
Why is he always attached? He's not been involved for years, didn't invent the concept, there were multiple 'hyperloop' companies in existence before and after his involvement. Don't tar all the people involved with the same brush
California high speed rail is trash.
The issue with public infrastructure in the US is buying all the land needed. You need to solve tunneling first if you want to build anything, doesn't matter if it's a train or an hyperloop.
Right, just like all of our intestate highways are under ground.......its ok for land that public infrastructure is built on to be publicly owned, even if it displaces people. As long as they are compensated market value for their property and again for the inconvenience, there is no reason besides someone's arrogant uniformed libertarian notion of freedom that public transportation infrastructure isn't the obvious priority.
@@johntheux9238 as if the Hyperloop wouldn't need to buy land/property also.
The biggest inescapable problem I see with it is expansion and contraction of the material making the tube. Having a single welded piece of pipe that long would have meters of expansion and contraction over the kilometers it travels. Only feasible way I see to get past that is to bury it deep enough underground to where surface temperature fluctuations would have minimal effect, but then any accident would be impossible to get to in a reasonable time, as well as complicating maintenance and increasing expense, and making it impossible to use in tectonically active areas.
If the tube is surrounded by air and there's an accident of any kind, the high velocity all but guarantees that the tube will be locally destroyed, after which the inrushing air will carry debris all the way to both terminals, destroying basically the entire length of the tube. So burying the tube deep inside solid rock would be pretty much mandatory. Not to mention keeping people from shooting at it. But of course making long tunnels in solid rock is insanely expensive, and also means that any accident or malfunction kills everyone from lack of air.
All in all, the whole thing is a stupid idea. Take a train or a plane.
Burying it might get rid of temperature problems, but will also invoke tectonic shifting problems.
No matter how you look at it, it's a pipe dream.
@@clovernacknime6984 exactly.
Hyperloop was always intended to be deep enough underground that there would be no problem with temperature expansion and contraction.
What you are describing already exist and it's called a continuous welder rail. Works just fine.
Nobody really spent time calculating the cost of building and maintaing a vacuum tube infrastructure. There were claims these were cheaper than conventional rail to build.
I really can't comprehend how anyone wouldn't immediately recognize that the maintainence costs alone of a multiple miles-long vacuum tube large enough to contain a passenger vehicle would be so astronomically high as to render it so impractical it could never be anything more than a titanic money pit...and that's assuming they could get it operating at all. Then there's safety concerns...what if a fire started inside the passenger compartment halfway through a destination? Those people would be as good as dead. To describe the hyperloop as being a folly would be the understatement of the century to anyone with a lick of common sense
I swear some people have no common sense these days
@ozzymandius666 right? I don't get why people think they need something new that pre-existing tech already provides. High speed trains already exist; they should just build that!
Elon's original paper describes a very different design that is actually economically viable, you can learn more on the wiki page for the hyperloop. There is also an official paper hosted somewhere at Tesla. This video should mention this design, all the other "hyperloops" aren't really hyperloops, they are just maglevs.
@@Gelatinocyte2 We need a technology that competes better with airplanes because airplanes are contributing to the global warming problem.
I saw AI and graphene said in the same sentence and my 2019 bullshit detector went off so hard I passed out...
AI graphene Metaverse
As an american whos been following the hyperloop, I knew it failed and elon never intended for it to be a solution no... it was made intentionally to prevent California's high speed rail from being built as that would affect his car buisness very bs and such a cow'ardly disg'usting move to try and prevent it to be built... adam something talking about this in one of his vids and im not surprised the hyperloop was made to never be an actual solution or a viable concept to be used against the building of against California's HSR in the first place! However i should make it clear Im not good at explaining things but its more of the hyperloop is ment to be a distraction in a way tho i still recommend watc'hing Adam something sense he explains it much better!
My man is speaking facts!
yeah pretty much this^
im somewhat of a transit junkie myself and it was a clearly used to pull funding from cali's investments in trains
The concept may has some merit, but for recent Musk's hype train is always a ploy to sabotage CHSR from the start (alongside Boring company tunnel).
Cow'ardly? Disg'usting? Why are you typing like this?
Also, how did Hyperloop prevent California's high speed rail being built. I'm not disagreeing with you, I've just genuinely never heard this take before. I struggle to believe this since Tesla sells cars all over the world, but I'm really interested in hearing what you have to say.
Tech industry scams like this are incredibly frustrating. We could have a better world if people weren't wasting their money and time on projects that aren't going anywhere.
Who said it was a scam?
@@johntheux9238 learn more about what the Hyperloop is really all about and you will know that it is
Blatant ignorance like yours is incredibly disgusting. But the bigger the fool the more you feel the need to try and pretend you're not.
@@TheEvilmooseofdoom Grow up and realize you've been had.
@@johntheux9238 Anyone with half a brain...
It has been said the Hyperloop would be GREAT on the MOON, Mars, or a space habitat, where evacuating atmosphere is not really an issue.
Wouldn't that just be maglev...
Finally someone other than thunderf00t puts this infeasible idea to rest
EDIT:
No, both sides don't have valid arguments. It is simply too expensive, dangerous, and downright impossible to make giant vacuum tube trains which offer only a small advantage. The material science doesn't hold up. We don't have materials to make those tubes long and big enough and withstand environmental effects, and they are simply too dangerous. We can have long tubes that rust and leak, or we have short, extremely expensive tubes which cost a small country's GDP per km and that STILL doesn't address any of the safety issues (earthquakes, accidents, vandalism etc.) all while netting a tiny amount of fuel savings. Just a complete embarrassment for everyone involved. At least we have an easy litmus test, if someone thinks hyperloop is a great idea, they're not good engineers and don't think scientifically
EDIT2:
02:50 the hyperloop was "sold" as a train replacement, not a maglev replacement. We don't really need faster maglev trains. We know roughly how far away the stops need to be for the system to be economically feasible. If we go any faster, the acceleration Gs will be uncomfortable or even dangerous for passengers. Already some people avoid maglev trains because of motion sickness. You could accelerate more if the distance between stops was longer, but you end up greatly increasing energy consumption, dangerousness and maintenance for what? To get people to remote locations a little faster? Planes exist, by the way. Maglev trains are ideal for connecting megalopolis/giant metropolitan areas. Planes for long distance. Trains for freight, capacity, density and cost-effectiveness.
He needs to keep riders on his side or the channel will get ratioed.
What about earthquakes, accidents and vandalism in the case of regular maglevs? If you derail a maglev, it is a death sentence to anyone on board regardless if its in a tube or not.
@@the_aurora Maglevs aren't running in an extreme environment usually reserved for extraordinary manufacturing techniques and the lab. Everything is much worse in the vacuum tube because you're pumping insane energies in. Google "Controlled Demonstration of a Tank Trailer Vacuum Collapse" to see just one of the dangers of a vacuum tube.
Maglevs are still dangerous, that's why they take so much resources and planning to build.
The issue with hyperloop is that a guy with a pointy rock can destroy the tube.
Airplanes regularlly fly at an altitude that would quickly kill an exposed human and a total vacuum is overkill. Something comparable to the air pressure found at the heights aircraft fly at would still offer massive efficiency gains and is arguably 'as safe' as any pressurized plane.
@@JohnnyWednesday Near perfect vacuum is what they're proposing. The drag increases near-exponentially as you're going from 0 to something. There is little difference in energy expenditure at 500km+ speeds between 1% and 50% atm pressure, but there is a large difference between 0.001% and 100% atm pressure
Even if they build it, I'm not going into that death trap for at least 50 years of active use
hey, everyone i got it: we put the car inside the vacuum tube, right? and then we just move the tube at 1600kmh! instead of building all that track!
...
The technology is feasible, but that doesn't address profitability.
0:26 this is what we call the Balance Fallacy, AKA "BothSidesIsm".
0:59 that's not true; Hyperloop (the concept behind it) traces its roots back to Pneumatic Tube Trains (or Atmospheric Railways for short). Hyperloop is not MagLev; MagLev was not its' inspiration.
2:04 aerodynamics is actually not as much of a big issue as it was being implied here. Let's be real, maintaining a vacuum would be more energy costly than it would have theoretically saved from the Pods. Also, maglevs and conventional (high speed) trains already go fast enough without the tubes.
Maglev trains exist and nobody is building them. why? because the extra price is not worth the time saved. Adding a very expensive and dangerous vacuum on top of that makes no sense whatsoever, Hyperloop has always been vaporware.
I would like to remind you that the japanese, french, or even chinese, high speed trains already go well beyond 300km/h, with a fraction of what a maglev costs.
The vacuum is not supposed to be added to a maglev, you can also use air bearings or even wheels in a vacuum...
What if, rather than a vacuum, we just arranged it that the air was travelling at the same speed as the train? That also eliminates drag, at the cost of having to move a lot more mass. Effectively, it would be like some of the pneumatic tubes used to transfer small capsules (say, cash from tills) round some commercial buildings. Overall efficiency is, presumably, significantly lower, but there are savings by not having to vacuum-proof the tunnels.
They use these in bank drive thrus
it would lead to problems with trains stoping since the whole air needs to slow down and if there are multiple trains in a tube, what then?
also i don’t know how energy intensive it to accelerate that large of an air volume.
What kind of marvel science and energy would you need to move air at 500 km/h let alone 1000 km/h in a 300~500 kilometer tunnel. What kind of insane energy usage would that be.
Impractical and too power hungry.
i am assuming a larger version of a particle collider but it uses turbines to circulate a shit load of air.
Even if all of the other issues with this proposal can be resolved, the biggest problem with this thing is: where the hell are they gonna be able to lay a perfectly straight section of tube for this thing so it can actually safely attain its maximum speed? rail always has to account for topography and the cost of this thing is just going to explode if they’re having to drill through every single mountain in its path. The hyper loop is just a worse version of currently-existing high speed rail technologies, especially considering we could be building high speed rail with technology we have available right now instead of hoping for advances in materials that *might* make the vacuum tube idea feasible.
Tunnels go UNDER topography. That's the advantage of tunnels.
Seems to me that high speed trains would have been faced with a similar arguments when they were proposed to replace regular speed trains. So, ask how the high speed train people solved it and do that again. And, we don't need any advances in materials.
@TheEvilmooseofdoom Yes obviously I’m aware the tunnels go under topography, the issue with tunneling is that it massively increases the cost of any infrastructure project compared to one that’s able to avoid doing this. The problem with hyper loop is that it’s forced to dig through mountains to realize its top speed, which will cause it to be exorbitantly expensive.
You don't need advanced materials for the vacuum chamber, you can just use steel and add stiffeners on the inside to prevent buckling caused by the compressive forces.
Steel is actually very flexible, the internal stress caused by thermal expansion in continuous welded rails is far from the yield strength.
Maglev was a relatively hot topic when I was an undergraduate with good work being done by Eric Laithwaite in Imperial College London. You might think that with all the Power Mosfets and IGBT and such used in EVs these days we might be able to produce a more efficient and reliable Maglev design.
Hyperloop on paper looks really promising and as an idea will most likely never die. Just like idea of a space elevator or connecting Europe and Africa via Gibraltar and I think it never should. We should always revisit these ideas and look at them in context of advancements made over decades or centuries. There might come a time when materials, needs, price etc intersect and it becomes the viable solution.
I actually came to say something similar. There's nothing wrong with having taken a serious, updated look at this idea. Not ready? Ok, look again in a few more decades. No problem.
In fact, the "I told you so" response that is so common for this stuff is counterproductive. There are so many things we could do better that we give no resources to.
It's literally good and productive that we tried and failed. Let's fail more as a species.
Don't need any better Europe Africa connections
I have invented a better solution called the Air Sledd. - much cheaper -achieves the same goals - and actually proven to work
Considering the power requirements, infrastructure issues, tech issues, and inherent danger...how is this better than just flying?
Fuel cost, basically it's only meant to connect big cities when you have to carry millions of people every year.
Above all, maintaining a vacuum is extremely difficult even on small scales, let alone kilometers of tube.
At 1,600 km an hour track curvature would be extremely limited before passenger discomfort gets too high. If you can draw an almost straight line between start and destinations points it may be feasible. You can't do that between many cities in the world.
Vac trains in “The Nights Dawn” trilogy.
Doomed. Pressurization is the ball game. The rest is known technologies. What have bridges, train tracks and sidewalks have in common? An expansion relief section. As heat is absorb, materials expands and so there needs to be expansion relief sections all along the tube. The way it is traditionally done is with space or with a porous materials that can be easily compressed and/or stretch. With an almost vacuum inside and a 1 atmosphere outside, none of those solution will do. Also, we have to think of the Challenger booster o-ring failure. The magic material that would be use in the expansion relief section must be able expand a lot, stay air tight, support 1 atmosphere of pressure and operate in a range -40°C ro 40°C. No such material exists.
Continuous welded rails don't have expansion relief, they are just designed to survive the internal stress.
The overarching problem (please excuse the pun) is the temperature differential between the top side and the underside of the tubes which will cause them to bow towards the hotter side.
@@thedubwhisperer2157 They can paint it white to avoid that.
@@johntheux9238 Minimise, but not eliminate.
I've been a fan of your channel and I really love how you edited the video! the sounds and visuals are superb. However, I think visualizing more what's happening when "drag" is pushing against the train or explaining the exact idea of a hyperloop would be easier to understand. I don't think anyone who has never heard much about hyperloops would be able to fully understand the video.
What about the design that uses a giant air-intake in front and uses that pressurized air for levitation instead of magnetic levitation?
Because it's dumbly contradictory. The issue is drag, so we decrease airpreassure. But then we want to use the air to levitate which will require quite high airpreassure which causes drag. And you would likely want a magnetic track for proppulsion anyways. It's why all the actuall companies formed around Hyperloop went towards maglev. Also: maglev is a more proven technology that has a lot of development saving costs.
What about maintaining the vacuum, the vacuum seals every few tens of meters, maintenance, environmental factors such as being in America which means higher exposure to bullets?
Just weld them instead of using seals.
@@johntheux9238 if you welded them it would have an insane amount of expansion and contraction over it's length
@@petdogdog Just like continuous welded rails.
Steel has a fair amount of elasticity so it would only get at most 90 MPa of internal stress.
@@johntheux9238 Welded Rails don't have to deal with a vacuum.
@@KaiserMattTygore927 Yes, that's why the vacuum chamber will have stiffeners on the inside to prevent buckling from the negative pressure difference. Just like the hull of a boat.
Bottom line. It's more trouble than it's worth.
With today's technology, it is possible but super expensive. Maybe who knows in the future, but I would not bet on it :)
ooh my bad...i just opened the window..goodbye sweet oxygen.
Just like any airplane...
@@johntheux9238 Nope. In case of loss of cabin pressure in an airplane, you can just use an oxygen mask. In a vacuum, oxygen masks don't work - your muscles simply wouldn't be strong enough to work against the vacuum. That's why astronauts require pressure suits during lift-off, not just oxygen masks.
Whats the name of the song starting at 2:10?
LOL Sabine Hossenfelder predicted this 2years ago because of all the technical challenges this idea has to overcome..
in a nut shell, great idea but to many problems to overcome to make it feasible.
for those of use following it.. it was just a matter of when Mr Hype himself, Elon, threw the towel in.
Great discussion but when you realy get to the nitty gritty we don't have the technology to create a 1000 mile long tube that can maintain a vacuum through all seasons due to expansion issues. Yes we we could pump out 20 meters and hold it but being honest its never gonna be economical anyway or not for a long while yet....cheers
No, vacuum is a bad idea, tunnels though have potential.
We have the technology to build 1000 miles long continuous welded rails that don't need expansion joints... Why not do the same with the hyperloop?
To be honest if you cant understand how a piece of rail and a hollow tube under vacuum differ, I think we should agree to disagree so things don't get out of hand :)@@johntheux9238
@@andymouse Another thing they all seem to miss is the temperature differential between the topside and underside of the tube, causing it to bow upwards during the day and very probably downwards at night!
:)@@thedubwhisperer2157
They now present spacewalk as monumental achievement. We did it more than fourty years ago...
never is a strong word
Great stuff but recently Apple launched this great VR glasses. If they become common people can do almost anything virtually. You could, for example, have a trip to Bali without the spiders. That technology will come sooner, eliminate 99% of the need to physically travel, and be affordable.
Very good video, yet the head-on collision with air comparison showed the most common sense misconception. Two cars of equal mass going towards each other at 100km/h is equal to crash with a wall at 100km/h.
still sad when you relise the entire point of the hyperloop was to stop government funding for high speed rail
California high speed rail is trash though.
@@johntheux9238 how do you know that? 🤨
How do you figure the point of hyperloop was to stop high speed rail.. I suspect you don't really have an understanding and you're just blindly repeating what you were told, not what you know.
@@TheEvilmooseofdoom there were leaked emails. Look it up yourself.
@@Gelatinocyte2 Because it's now $128B instead of $33B and it's still not finished.
Technically possible? Yes. Economically possible? Perhaps, some very dense city centers that could benefit by being connected together. By connecting large cities that are far apart from one another, we could create, in effect, megacities that are capable of acting as a single unit, which could help with the rising cost of living in urban environments due to space constraints. However, we are finding that we can do without living in many of these cities by simply adopting remote work, and going to the cities less frequently. Overall, I think that there are cheaper transportation (e.g., traditional rail, or high speed rail) options out there and that Hyperloop is likely to remain a fiction for all but for the densest city centers, where being connected by Hyperloop would provide substantial economic benefits.
the most surprising and best idea: hyperloop can be implemented in space because there is no air pressure
The pracicality is questionable considering both points should move because orbital mechanics
Adding a hyperloop to a mass driver on the Moon or Mars would be a good combo and a necessity for further travel.
space elevators would never work. a hyperloop at sea level would be more realistic than a space elevator due to orbital mechanics
@@menjolno space elevator?? Where did that come from? We are on hyperloop in a vacuum environment.
Even on the moon we'd still need to encase the track - while it does not have an atmosphere there's a lot of fine dust due to many factors that is suspended like a fog on the surface - at speed this would become a sand-blaster from hell
I would like to hear some opinions about the Hyperloop, so please reply:
If the Hyperloop was a lot longer (like a regular train), and just used the relatively cheap maglev design that many companies came up with, without the crazy expensive tube, would it be a practical high speed transport system? I think so.
No tube means no vacuum and therefore no hyperloop. What you are describing is not just "like" a regular (maglev) train, it *is* a regular train.
Recently Virgin Hyperloop died
Wow! Never saw that one coming... 🤣
Can you do a video on quantum computing and it's inevitable failure?
?
What we need is a space elevator hyperloop.
A relative short track built on a mountain side that launches a plane into low atmosphere.
From there the plane can take advantage of the near zero wind resistance, then descend like a normal airplane.
I really wish the hyperloop would actually become real someday. I like the idea of hoping into a pod and traveling across the country withing in hour or so. That would be so convenient. I heard China is actually working on a hyperloop.
Pretty cool if this gets implemented widely
Apart from many others a problem is where does it fit in? For a short distance anything shorter than LA - San Francisco there's no point in going supersonic as travel time will be dominated by getting to the terminal on the metro, waiting for the pod and getting to your destination Doesn't matter if you shave 40 minutes off in the middle. Then for long distances there's a whole lot of 225mBar air available free of charge. You can cruise at mach 0.95 with the comforting exceptional safety record of aviation.
But what I worry about is the kinetic energy of a pod 1/2 m V^2- quite a lot. What if the pod decided to swap that for heat, like for instance a maglev bearing failed? The vehicle would get pretty hot and there would be all sorts of fumes and smoke and you'd be in an evacuated concrete tube hundreds of metres from an exit.
“I found it” (despite the terrible resolution, I strained my eyes hard enough to comprehend words)
A lot of money has already been invested. The results do not warrant further funding. Financially unfeasible.
How much money has already been invested?
@@TheEvilmooseofdoom I do not know. But there was a half mile testing tube set up which probably cost a bundle. Had to be dozens of experts- engineers and the like - getting paid to contribute.
I think we should be pursuing the hyperloop. Why? Because it would be epic to ride one.
A certain group with many names already has this operational, linking various cities.
Didn't this channel have a pro hyperloop video at some point, if it was it's been removed.
Sometimes its better to invest in what works, then upgrade as tech comes around. We don't even have rail in the US anymore to any meaningful degree. Lets build that out before moving to high speed.
Elon's proposal of Hyperloop was almost like malice disguised in stupidity. The public is pretty much in the dark when it comes to science of these kinds of projects, so taking Elon "the real life Tony Stark" Musk's opinion on it seems like a no-brainer and thus the public can be easily manipulated into being "wow'ed" by the concept. Add to that the fact that Musk's critics voices are usually not that loud in media and are being drowned by all the Muskrats' screaming and you've got a potent ground for misinformation campaigns that are pretty advantageous to the various car manufacturers, especially Tesla. It's not a big secret that Musk is not a fan of transit systems and that's saying it lightly. It's against his financial interests for obvious reasons. He's actively against it as Hyperloop was just a waste of taxpayers' money instead of going into infrastructural projects like passenger rail systems or more robust public bus transportation.
Part of the problem is most of you Musk critics and just not that bright and most people know it and so most ignore you.
Explain to me why do you have to remove the air inside the tube to near vacuum instead of just blow air at the same speed and direction of the thing moving inside?
Have you calculated the mass of air that will be moving at these speeds, or the energy to maintain it. Then there's the stopping problem and getting passengers on and off...
imagine sucking a boba through a straw, and you're the boba? that vacuum concept needs to be explored.... I call it to boba tube.
More like Hyper-Con.
The theory is sound, but the engineering might be tricky.
This awesome video convinced me we will not see its emergence until 2080-2100; not 2026 as some estimates gave.
The issue with building it in real life at scale is going to be supply chains, logistics and skilled labor. Those things are hard to predict.
Lol that guy's just simping for the 'loop
Hyperloops, maglevs, and high speed rail are all solutions in search of a problem that hasnt already been solved by planes, buses, or freight trains.
It would be a good concept if trains/subways haven't been invented yet. Sure, Hyperloop is more efficient, but considering the cost and building, might as well stick to trains and make those more efficient and widely accessible.
It's not competing against trains but airplanes. You need to compare the costs to other means of transport with similar speeds.
Drag force is proportional to square of velocity man not cube of velocity 😂😂
He was talking about power, which is force*speed.
It would be good to make a comparison with air travel - in terms of carbon footprint - that is, the cost of all megawatts - here and here, and travel time. That would be useful.
... and compare all that to high speed trains.
I think my favorite part of this stupidity is when Elon suggested it’s an “air hockey table” while in the same breath says it’s in a vacuum…
The only places vacuum trains make sense are out in space, where there's naturally a vacuum. Places like the surface of the Moon, or on an orbital ring. Down here on Earth, though? Forget it.
It was always a scam.
it has a purpose of bumping Musk name in search results, and making some hype
It will most definitely need to be built underground as well. On the surface, it’s just one car crash, natural disaster, terrorist attack or stray bullet from one of the 400,000,000 high velocity poker holers in the United States to catastrophic failure.
Thumb down for the title which wasn't justified by the video content.
Why the background music? 🧏♀
I still hope that one day this idea could be realistic
In order to destroy citerns, people create vacuum inside the tanks and it instantly collapse on itself unable to support the pressure of the atmosphere, i would never feel safe in a vacuum tube.
Me neither.
It would have stiffeners on the inside to reduce buckling loads, just like boat hulls.
You can use air bearings, magnetic levitation or even wheels though, what matters is the vacuum tube.
Air bearings... In a vacuum?
@@johntheux9238 hahahahahahahahahahha your as good at physics as Elon. EDIT lol he deleted his comment.
Wheels will provide frictional drag, and air bearings negates the whole vacuum tube requirement.
@@speadskater It's not a vacuum, just low pressure air. Just like airplanes that fly at high altitude to go faster, it's a compromise.
@@brendanariki What's the issue? 100 Pa or 1/1000 atmospheric pressure is more than enough if you have an air intake covering the whole cross section of the vehicle. At 1/100 atmospheric pressure you only need one the size of a car's intake.
Thank you for this great video
Better build this in space.
I think if we ever colonize on another planet without atmosphere the hyperloop is viable.
It's a 'pipe' dream...
This is a good transportation on Mars on any other planets, maybe..
Remember that the original idea proposed by Elon Musk was not a maglev system. It was much, much dumber then that and was quickly rejected for its stupidity.
Big fan go brrr
I just think that it could be the next Titanic idea...
It will morgen posibill whif a tube entrance that the train can stay in the vacuum and you just conect a tube from outside to the inside that no air can leack insid
You don't really need maglev or a vacuum tube to go faster, all you need is low air resistance which can be achieved in a tunnel/tube with some engineering tricks.
Or even just half pressure. Less air is less air, you don't need a vacuum to get the benefits or reduced drag.
@@TheEvilmooseofdoom no need for that. heated tunnel will lower air resistance but that requires some smart insulation on the inside of the train. Air conditioners have to be designed differently.
Like filling it with hydrogen?
We need gravity control to make progress en transportation.
Just use wheels, rolling resistance doesn't increase with speed, unlike drag.
5:14 So, OceanGate but on land
Very unlikely to ever happen here on earth, but on the moon…?
we invent some dirt cheap energy source and some semi-magical materials and boom:
hyperloop. Not any time soon.
then some crazy fellas sabotage it and boom: no hyperloop
The whole point of the vacuum is that it reduces energy consumption. Go watch the video.
And we don't need new materials, steel has already a crazy high elasticity, even when welded the internal stress of the vacuum chamber caused by thermal expansion would only reach 90MPa.
@@johntheux9238 yes. we do need new materials. That's why nobody builds a hyperloop with our current materials. Grow up. Or just build one.
@@istvansipos9940 What issue needs new materials to be solved? Because we have been building vacuum chambers for decades and we can build them under tension to prevent buckling during hot days.
@@johntheux9238 so mankind simply chooses not to build the hyperloop. It could outcompete trains and earn a heap of money, but no capable engineer wants to get rich. Seems legit.
:- )
And the issues:
I think a several 100 km long tube would buckle on hot days. Or maybe you can keep it straight somehow, but you cannot maintain the vacuum in it. Or maybe you can, but it would cost the GDP of Africa.
maybe give it a try. I am easy to convince. I don't think you can build a hyperloop. And the fact that you still have not built one, gives me no reason to think that you can.
this trust issue is not that complicated, by the way. right now, the hyperloop seems as crazy as a 100 m sprint within 10 seconds.
The only difference: I see 100 m sprints within 10 seconds.
@@istvansipos9940 There are plenty of companies working on the hyperloop. Like HyperloopTT
You can build it during summer so it will only be under tension when it shrinks. That's what we do with continuous welded rails. If you want to maintain a vacuum you just need to add stiffeners on the inside to prevent buckling from the negative pressure difference.
Revolutionary technogolgy, in about 200 years...
Maybe, but it has to start somewhere and things learned now might help later.
If they can build engines for cars that run on ammonia, why can’t they build jet engines?
Build railways. Job done
A hyperloop using a vacuum is kind of a bad idea (but read the end) even though it works in theory kind of like a hot air balloon lifted by a vacuum. It works in concepts, but the structural engineering problems required to support a vacuum requires such a way that the overall density is not effective using conventional materials and methods. However, it would seem that two difficulties could find common purpose. If one replaces the vacuum with atmospheric pressure hydrogen, then one immediately sees a reduction of drag by a factor of 13.61...
A long tube filled with hydrogen would be a good way to transport hydrogen from facilities in places that have easy resources for making hydrogen. Thus we achieve it once a system for transporting hydrogen and cargo/people.
This also reduces the structural requirements of the tube dramatically.
And on top of that, a single spark could provide vast areas with along the tracks with a quick burst of heat. Let's not combine transporting people with electricity being the source of acceleration with hydrogen in the same, closed off space!
@@geisterfurz007 Hydrogen won't do anything without oxygen, it would be sealed the same way a vacuum chamber would be...
Little too late to the closing party? Thunderf00t has been pounding on this literally since "the Musk's genius idea" ( hypermusk ? ) was widely propagandized, about 8 or so years ago.
Thunderf00t is a moron though. Steel has been used for compressive loads for over a century, you just need stiffeners to prevent the vacuum chamber from collapsing.
Come on now. We all knew the Hyperloop would never become a success, just like all the other same concept before it never did.
In my eyes it would go in two ways
like the Maglev where it takes ungodly amount of time and regulations and a country needing a niche high efficiency transportation at faster speed than the Maglev and then it would happen then the world would try to do the same cuz jealous and etc.
the other way is similar but different
at first a country tests it with cargo transportation and after like a few years it'll use it in an actual scenario where some others might try make it too and after a while they'll get a hang of it and then it is realised
I do think it's going to happen but it won't be like that explosive of an advancement
maybe a few space related and some other stuff it'll help upon since new shit to know new shit to make
so it'll fill in a few niche stuff like the Maglev but unlike the Maglev it can't really be used everywhere so that's important
30% increase in cost isn't all that bad considering the potential advantages. In theory someone who would want to derail a maglev could do it now and would be a death sentence to anyone on board already.
That's just the cost of rails. There are many many more things to consider
@sendoh7x well he said "wrapping everything in a tube will increase the cost by at least 30%". Of course that at the very minimum the train itself will be also more expensive but that's just way of things work. First units are always the most expensive.
@@the_aurora tbh top concern is safety. Too small margin of error that would devastating consequences
@@sendoh7x thats the case with maglevs as well. Not to mention nobody is batting an eye on cars, they are by far the most dangerous mode of transportation aside from bikes. Its the same with nuclear energy, everyone is scared of it because of "safety" when in reality its more safe than wind..
@@the_aurora nothing came close with the combination of mach2 speed and vacuum tube
Let the world take several more turns. The idea is intriguing but seems in feasible with current technology. Definitely worth more R&D.
Elon Musk. Undisputed vapor ware champion.
Imagine if all the hyperloop investment went into traditional rail deployment. 🙁
Oh yeah, just like Tesla and SpaceX are vaporware LMAO...
Hyperloop is pretty much the only thing he never worked directly on, that's why it's taking so long.
What hyperloop investment is that? Can you give us a dollar amount? Have you EVER had an informed opinion? Even by accident?
That's what people told me about starlink and the cybertruck and here we are...
@@TheEvilmooseofdoom are you kidding me? Companies and governments invested hundreds of million dollars on pro of concepts, and failed development programs. What Virgin hyperloop alone wasted on it could have put in a light rail system in a medium sized US city.
@@johntheux9238 SpaceX is elons one success and that's mainly because of the dedication of the engineers there.
Cyber truck is hardly a success story. Several years late, costs almost double of what was advertised, and it barely works as a truck. People are already afraid to drive it in the rain because the bodies are rusting.
This is the best explanation of why it might be a good idea that I have ever heard. But I still don't think vacuum technology is ready. Maybe in a century as you say. But I don't know if the risk of blowouts can ever be overcome.
I agree, I don't think vacuum is a good idea and it's really a sh!t idea for passenger travel.
Some of the issues with vacuums have been solved with regular high speed rail. Continuous welded rails for example don't need expansion joints, that would help a lot if we want to build a vacuum chamber.
Instead of removing air from the tube they should thinking on accelerating that air up to the train speed level and beyond
And how do you stop? Just a reminder, air moving that fast would be beyond the Fujita-Scale (i.e. faster than a F12 tornado). You'd literally have to stop hype-tornado scale forces...
4:06 confusing kW and kW*h, 1 minute time frame is irrelevant, never mentioned desired end pressure. 5:14 it is spelled "worse", not "worst"
I mean, there's a difference between "worse" and "worst" - worst means the subject is the lowest of the low; worse means the subject is more bad compared to another thing.
@@Gelatinocyte2 Technical and literacy issues - typical of so many RUclips creators, but most viewers are another magnitude of ignorance lower so very few could ever realise these errors...
Technology wise it's doable. It's just that it's not economically sustainable.
You can use wheels instead of magnetic levitation.
@@johntheux9238 Yes, And try to get it economically viable by ditching the vacuum and the tube and what your left with is something that's barely viable in some very specific location.
@@lucidmoses Nope, you have to keep the vacuum, that's the only way to hit 1'200 km/h
A steel tube is way cheaper than magnetic tracks.
@@johntheux9238 So only a million dollars a ticket and not a 1.2. Ok. Got it. :p
@@lucidmoses the tech John is thinking of already exists: it's called the High Speed Train.