Bankrupt - Hyperloop One
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- Опубликовано: 18 апр 2024
- Patreon - / brightsunfilms
In 2013, Elon Musk unveiled his concept for a "5th mode of transportation" called Hyperloop. Spawning from this idea was a lot of public excitement as well as companies racing to build one. Virgin Hyperloop One was one such company, seemingly making the most progress of any company with technological breakthroughs including the first human test. But after a decade to work and over $400 million invested, in late 2023, the company declared the equivalent of bankruptcy and shut down. Join me today to find out why.
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Bright Sun Films 2024
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"What if trains but way more expensive and worse" - every billionaire right now
They all jumped to "what if I replace all my workforce and creatives by AI" now.
Billionaires are dangerous idiots.
Basically the same mindset who use private jets instead of scheduled airlines.
Why not? They did the same with energy.
I like where the idea is going, but can we do it in such way that is as LIKELY to fail as possible? Can we squeeze that in somehow?
It’s basically them saying “if it isn’t making ME money then nobody gets it.” Making everything privatized is a billionaires wet dream
Imagine if people stopped trying to reinvent the train and just invested in railway infrastructure that would actually support high speed rail.
EDIT:
There are people in the replies that think trains are communist, that's wild.
Almost impossible in the US unfortunately.
It drives me so crazy because every "new" mass transportation concept is ultimately a shittier version of the train. It's almost like the train is most efficient form of mass transportation and we're collectively too stupid to realize that.
LOOK CHY-NA!
^^^^ this
@@trinodot8112Silicon Valley tech bros don't like the train because it's more efficient than their ultimate preferred self driving robotaxi EVs
The rendering of the hyperloop next to the Golden Gate Bridge sent me into orbit 💀
The whole point of the bridge's height is to provide safe clearance for ships passing under it. Even if the rendering is a proof of concept why in the world would anyone look at the hyperloop bridge and say "yeah, half clearance ought to be enough."
Spot on!
The problem was that the hyperloop would have had trouble going up and down. It would have scraped along the inside of the tube during any gradient change. The proposed solution was to blast a tunnel through any inconvenient "bump" in the topography so it would travel through nothing but flat level tubes. This rendering showed how committed they were to this concept.
You just dont get it. They would have built a special section of the tube, that can be opened and folded upwards like some bridges in the netherlands. It is so easy, that they didnt even bother to show that part😂
@@scottlarson1548 Love that. Thank god California isn't known for natural disasters that cause the ground to shift otherwise someone could get sued.
@@costcorotisseriechicken2520 Well, there actually are tunnels in California.
Such projects are always popular by the governments who failed public transport completely. In France TGV is over 40 years old and you can go across the country comfortably with 320 km/h. These projects (also air taxis etc.) always focus on carrying few people, in much discomfort whereas in a high speed train you have toilets, restaurants, child play areas and even WINDOWS for over 500 people!
So everytime i see such a crazy project, i just want to shake people and yell them "JUST BUILD TRAINS". But, i guess it is easier to sell public something which looks like future, and will never be realised.
Trains are fine. It is illegal to build tracks in America.
you just reminded me of the monorail episode of the Simpsons..
There's no money to be made in using reliable cheap solutions. I mean, there's money, it's just regular money. A few millions. Not billions of crazy tech investors money for pipe dreams. And what can you do with just a few millions? That's just regular people income, that's gross 🧐
@@leparfumdugrosboss4216 No. If you want to build a train across my land you have to pay me $100 million. I own 16 acres and will not sell for less than that.
@@davidbeppler3032 so you as a land owner would make money, but I'm speaking about the people who build the train (or hyperloop, but they would have less liberty in choosing to cross your land or not, since hyperloop has to go straight).
Also, mister Eminent Domain has bad news for you 😅
It's almost as if the Hyperloop was mere hypothetical, designed to take money away from California HSR, and was never intended to actually be *built*.
How could you come to that outlandish conclusion?!
@@Skullair313 elon actually admitted himself that hyperloop was meant to take attention away from the HSR.
Reminds me of that money laundering outfit known as N A S A
@@pivotkid85has Elon been truthful about anything? It might not be his intention but he did take tax payer money for a project that never meant to be anything more than a show piece.
And Tesla is an og that collects funds from lefties so Spacex gets to burn unlimited hydrocarbons for leo transport.
Hyperloop is, quite literally, a pipe dream. The engineering behind it is nearly impossible to scale to the level we'd need. It makes more sense to build high speed rail. Look at Japan.
Yeah, it is way too easy for it to have a catastrophic failure and literally implode.
@@greybeardedgamer9383 The biggest point of failure in the concept in the pressurization of the tube... And everyone's worst fear especially after the Titan submarine implosion. I have a feeling that was the last straw for Hyperloop even though they weren't directly related. In people's minds the concept of being smushed to bits in a blink of an eye from one wrong weld scared off a lot of people. I think if the tubes weren't pressurized or even just mildly so it would work, just not at the speeds and efficiencies promised. Two companies are working on passive maglev add-on equipment for existing railways which to me seems much more viable. Ironlev and Nemovo....
It's crazy the hurdles high speed rail has to overcome in the US. Most rail is privately owned. And it isn't as straight or level as it needs to be.
It was pushed on purpose by Musk to try to detract from high speed rail projects. It's a scam and a telling indictment on the modern world that anyone would ever buy into it.
although we can't trust people to obey railroad signs so it won't happen here in the USA
Shoutout to @thunderfoot for calling out the hyperloop since day one.
thundarfeet believes the Model Y is vaporware. Keep that in mind.
@davidbeppler3032 don't remember him saying that, but I believe you, i properly don't agree with him in that case 😉 (as a tesla owner myself) but there is plenty vaporware to go around, like the tesla bot and semi.
@@davidbeppler3032
*EDIT* - Mistook Thunderf00t with ADAM SOMETHING - who has since changed the video title and added a specific description and all. The video title is now "Electric Buses are a scam*" (and the asterisk explanation is in the description)
----
He (Adam Something, not Thunderf00t) also believes electric busses in cities is a dumb idea (it isn't for a plethora reasons)
I don't always agree with Thunderfoot but more often than not his content is incredibly valid - I just hope people don't start taking _immediately_ trusting or agreeing with him blindly ahahaha
@@ProtoMarcus electric buses either catch on fire when it is hot or don't work when it is cold. fyi we have electric trams that are over a century old that work better and more reliable than electric buses.
@@toomanyaccounts We've had electric buses for a while in Montréal and they've been working perfectly fine through frigid winters and hot summers. They are not the best choice for every environment or setting (urban vs suburbs, etc) but for downtown transit they are not at all a dumb idea (quieter, cleaner, etc)
And Québec produces a lot of electricity (... but doesn't know how to properly use it...) so energy isn't an issue either
The video wasn't debating the pros and cons, it was blindly claiming Electric Buses are a dumb idea period.
And even with your points, it can be reasonably debated that they may not be the best solution within those conditions, but they can still be an excellent solution within other conditions
They definitely have issues - but they're not dumb (in most settings!)
There's a perfect slogan for this. "Hyperloop - All hype, no loop". I also like thunderfoot's LOL loop meme lmao
All of this "innovation": Hyperloop, self-driving cars, Uber/Lyft: All of it just a huge, HUGE workaround to avoid building passenger rail and subways.
Yup. The nonsense Vegas loop is an example.
CEO of a car company thinks cars are the future. Im shocked!
@@SRParsonage I just bought an electric car, myself. It was a $14,000 Chevrolet Bolt. This year they'll install adapters so I can use Tesla chargers. Thanks for the subsidy, 60K Tesla buyers!
@@jeremy____5747 yeah, but the suburbs are essentially a Ponzi scheme so your electric car is basically a pat on the back rather than a solution.
People keep inventing "The Train: But Worse" over and over again because, at least in the US, we have this bizarre aversion to trains.
@@jeremy____5747 as someone who has driven a tesla before, they are absolute dogshit with buggy software, broken safety features and rapidly depreciating range. but it's fast, and that's all that matters! /s
13:13 you know a project is doomed when the concept designers can't even factor in simple things like boats.
yea I was about to say, it like no engineers looked at this and told them this wont work this is a dumb idea.
Even worse if you look at the concept art where they use air in a vacuum.
Was not created by Helies musk! its been around for 120 years he just scrounges off others!
There's a damn good REASON the Golden Gate Bridge is that high above the water!
@@Scorpidoo Hyperloop is not a vacuum (it's not a vactrain), it's a low pressure tube.
Hyper loop reminds me how there was this fun little experiment where people were asked to try and invent the wheel while not just copying the already existing axel design. Needless to say it was in fact really hard to invent the wheel with out inventing a worse wheel.
Sometimes old technology existed first was because it was the optimal mix of practically, efficiently, and simplicity.
I love how the two "humans" from the 100mph test exit the vehicle as if they've just accomplished something incredible like walking on a moon. Calm down folks. You did nothing but sit in a chair for a few minutes as it traversed a tube. You didn't reinvent the wheel.
I like how you put humans in quotation marks, as if there's a possibility they were androids or something. 🤣
Good one!😂
They didn't even reinvent the train.
Typical Richard Branson 🤡 show.
It looked pretty damn bumpity bumpy too. Woops! Hot coffee in your lap.
It took them several years to make a train that couldn't go 1/4 the speed of maglev bullet trains.
it took decades to make meglevs, and than it was too costly to be made in large scale. the hyperloop companies decided we can make it in a few years, if we add the simple part of also making it in a vacuum tube, oh, and also making the tube on a scale that was never even considered before. surprise, they failed with the time and budget while the concept was dead from start already. the investors should sue the hype sellers, and the governments that spent money on this should be removed from office and probably jailed for wasting the taxpayers money.
This is the single thread that runs through all the corporate welfare schemes. Get hundreds of millions in government grants to raise billions in investments to take over or kill a market/product/service.
It was all hype and no loop
Tbh, looking at the Hyperloop pods, it really doesn’t make sense to travel in a pod that can carry few people, rather than a high speed train like Brightline or Acela, which carry way more passengers
I rode the Shinkansen in Japan. It was a religious experience. I would go back to Japan JUST to ride the Shinkansen. Japan: Where the journey really IS the destination.
You’re correct lol
That's because you aren't a billionaire that doesn't want to travel with plebs.
it was never supposed to make sense. It was only supposed to kill public transit lines for a long as possible.
@@kingsteve4304 100 years from now, a Paiute shaman will rattle a hand drum and chant while he kneels in the dunes reclaiming Las Vegas.
"Too close to fly, too long to drive" you mean the definition of high speed rail. Already exists in the rest of the developed world, no bankruptcy required
One thing, throughout the video you say 'pressurized'. What you meant is DEpressurized. The idea is to pull a partial vacuum to reduce air resistance in the tubes, allowing for high speeds with reduced atmospheric drag. With magnetic levitation removing physical drag, and near vacuum removing skin drag, you can theoretically reach very high speeds without excessive energy use.
But this means the pods need to be akin to high altitude aircraft, if not spacecraft. Able to handle massive pressure differentials between a sea level cabin and, ideally, near vacuum outside. For the touted 600-700mph the pressure difference would be far higher than that experienced by commercial airliners. You need a near vacuum to avoid skin heating from friction.
Pulling a vacuum on such long tubes is a huge challenge too. Any stops become airlocks. And breech in the tube would allow air to rush in, perhaps explosively, which would be bad for anyone traveling at high speed in the tube. Slamming into the air would be like hitting a wall at those speeds.
And if there is any breakdown, how do you get to the people in the pods? They're in a sealed tube, surrounded by vacuum. Or air least low enough pressure that it makes no difference for survivability. Which also means any leak in the pod becomes deadly, quickly.
Lots of challenges.
i am pretty sure he means that the cabins would need to be kept pressurized since outside the cabin would be a vaccuum
@@davidclark4919 That's what he should have said. Instead, he repeatedly referred to the tube as being pressurized as in 13:02.
The situation would actually be even more challenging than for a spacecraft. The challenge with the pod barely even starts with keeping it pressurized against the vacuum outside.
First, you need a system able to supply the people on-board with oxygen and remove CO2 _for several hours_ and that autonomously. Why? Because in case of an emergency, you cannot evacuate the vehicle and the tube, you'll have to wait for someone to get your pod out (after getting all the other pods between the next station and you).
Second, you need a fully autonomous closed-loop air conditioning, one that can do without air circulation with an outside heat sink or other means of heat conduction.
Third, you need a massive on-board battery able to power the previous two systems for several hours.
It's similar to the pressure differences involved with a submarine at depth. If the two pressures ever get together, someone is going to have a very bad day.
thanks for that, it makes more sense, he definately got it wrong calling the tube pressurised, it just didnt make sense, but vacuum yes. its like a mag lev submarine...
It seems like they invested a lot of money into colored LED lights for the insides of their demonstration tubes ...
Don't forget all the wonderful CGI videos.
It's a bit like an illusionist roadshow of Houdini, Copperfield and the likes - Presentation is everything and facts are secondary.
That could’ve been a underground stop for a metro/sunway line
Clearly there wasn't enough RGB for it to work...
@@Xorthis 😂😂
Why do pesky things like physics always stand in the way of brilliant start-up ideas
If you're as fundamentally ignorant as Musk has demonstrated himself to be, your imagination can really take flight! That's the kind of genius-level mind that claims that the stupid hype loop "Is not that hard!"
No physics problem with the hyperloop.
I enjoyed their CGI depictions of Hyperloop trains making sharp 90 degree turns at 600 miles an hour.
@@scottlarson1548 Same thing happens in airplanes! Splat!
@@davidbeppler3032 ????? Airplanes do not make sharp 90 degree turns at 600 MPH.
I'll say it was a lot of fun being a railroad design engineer in 2010 when everyone was asking about the Hyperloop. Elon Musk basically ruined investment in public transit infrastructure for the past 20 years because everyone thought trains were ancient technology.
So... how do you get around not being allowed to build railroad tracks? It has nothing to do with trains. Tracks are illegal in America.
@@davidbeppler3032 ...huh?
Trains are 1800's technology. Being stuck on tracks makes it largely uneconomical other than for bulk goods.
@@stephenw2992Did you ever read anything about the economics of rail transport? It amazes me how you can say something so utterly wrong with such confidence.
@@davidbeppler3032 being smart and thinkjng about the future is illegal in america, along with being happy & owning property.
I was just baffled at how obvious it was that this is not going to work and how adamantly some people insisted it would, insulting anyone pointing out the flaws. And their defence would always be something like "the best engineers in the world are working on it" or "do you think they would invest millions if it didnt work?". There were never any answers to fundamental questions like "how do you even get in?"
In addition to the logical fallacy of the argument from authority, too many people don't even have a basic concept of physics & engineering, and take their cues from renderite.
Another great exemple of "private capital allowing funds optimally" 🙄
Good ideas don't mind being challenged.
Bad ideas HATE being challenged.
There is always money to be made in stupid s#!t.
Over the years, I would occasionally be reminded of Hyperloop and get really excited about it. Then I'd realize that I was just actually excited about trains.
But not just any train.
a vacuum sealed train.
Still dumber than normal ass trains.
But you have correctly reached train enlightenment. Good job.
@@tytothetoetaker9788If i put a hard, cylinder shaped object in a vacuum cleaner, does that count as a Hyperloop?
@@YukariAkiyama is the cylinder object a toy train
your mistake was believing one of the biggest fraudsters in human history.
@@tytothetoetaker9788 No. it is hard and made of organic material
If the tunnel breaks, everyone dies. If the pod depressurises, everyone dies. If the pod derails, everyone dies. And these things are vastly more likely to happen with the technology they were using than anything you'd find on a plane.
And the genius of wanting to build one in an earthquake zone...
Add to that the potential for terrorist attacks, crazy people and just basic force majeure (eg. a truck crash wrecks the tube), plus of course earthquakes, storms and other weather phenomena, all the while ignoring problems such as thermal expansion, the list goes on and on. EEvblog and others covered this so many times, likewise with solar roadways and other grift projects that just suck up state and investor spending. In the science rags, I remember, a lot of these ideas were promoted on the back of "hope" and other wishy washy notions that all derived from emotional sophistic twaddle, melded with eco hype. One sees the same thing with pod transport in cities, it's just an excuse to spend, while those who point out the obvious flaws at the beginning are ignored or shouted down.
Also, even if there is just a power loss or non-explosive depressurization and all the pods travelling get stuck, everyone dies unless they have a method to get the pods out of the tube and quickly. Because you cannot evacuate from the pods while in the tunnel, all the air you have is in the pod, and all the CO2 you breathe out stays in the pod.
You could solve these problems with a life support system like on a spaceship, only even more elaborate because you cannot power the system with solar cells (you'll need batteries instead) and cannot lose heat with big radiators. All this would make your pod much larger & heavier, with more mass & machinery per passenger than normal rail or maglev, while your track is already more expensive per mile. (People forget that Elon's only real contribution to the 100-year-old vacuum train idea was to keep the pods away from the walls with air cushion - but all the franchised developers quickly realised that this won't work as the pods would smash onto the walls from the smallest disturbance while the vacuum pumps would struggle to get out the added air. Hence the maglev in vacuum, which is already more expensive track than even normal maglev.)
@@Daneelro It always was a rather contradictory notion that there would be an air cushion while at the same time the air pressure would be low to reduce friction (in which case, what air cushion?). The devil is as usual in the nuance. Same thing with Musk's witterings about Mars, it was all hype and hope, but the media and science rags went nuts for it, completely ignoring the dozens of very serious practical, engeering, legal and ethical problems involved. I was especially shocked that science mags ignored the real issues. But there are I suppose those who hang off Musk's every word, and investors who follow along, or public entities happy to throw free stuff at whoever has jumped onto the relevant bandwagon.
It's frustrating because sometimes what he says and does about free speech issues, speaking out against certain elite classes, wokeness, etc. has significant merit, but it's sadly often not consistent. He really is quite the oddball. The Mars thing was a shame though because he didn't come up with or invent anything, it was nothing more than a call for "ideas", which kicked off a whole wave of complete insanity where actual experts in the field were ignored, while instead people who knew nothing about rocketry, space engineering, ec. were encouraged to submit suggestions (ie. the general public, as if they have a flying clue). Funny how this absurd MO is not promoted when someone wants brain surgery. :}
@@Daneelro And all this to carry 10 people per train, how could anybody invest into it and expect anything but total loss :D
Every time something tries to reinvent transport they reinvent the train
But worse and more expensive
There needs to be a miniature version that helps bank tellers.
You are not gonna believe this
Or like the entire city of New York.
Or Costco point of sale stations. LOL!
We've solved mass transit for hamsters!
In the san Francisco chronicle they report thT : Musk reportedly told his biographer, Ashlee Vance, that the Hyperloop proposal was motivated by “his hatred for California’s proposed high-speed rail system,” which he felt would be too slow, outdated and expensive. “With any luck, the high-speed rail would be canceled,” Vance wrote.
I think he should be legally prosecuted for this. Do you have any idea how much better California would be with more ways to eschew cars?
@@merylcruz3820 The SEC needs to get serious and go after him for stock fraud. Musk's only demonstrated "genius" lies in pump and dump schemes.
But aside from him, every idiot county councilman who endorsed one of Musk's idiotic tunnel schemes needs to suffer consequences.
@@merylcruz3820 I agree. People should not have rights. Take those away and just build the trains. Problem solved.
@@merylcruz3820 Yes we should jail people for ideas you dont like with hindsight
@@merylcruz3820 Elon is a en egomaniac and an asshole, but unfortunately that's not a crime. What he did was highly immoral, but the blame is on all those elon dick riders who took his "idea" and hailed it as the holy grail instead of laughing about it.
Problems known from the start:-
Thermal expansion of pipes: solvable with expansion joints but very expensive.
Vacuum pipes leak: pumping out air is a large running cost.
Pipe breaches: unsolvable and incoming air at almost 1 atmosphere difference turns passengers into red paste.
Breakdown recovery: no known, viable procedure.
Fast passenger ingress/egress from a vacuum: no known solution.
Land acquisition: expensive and made worse as hyperloop requires straighter tracks than rail.
Only the fourth and fifth problems might be solved with research but these received little attention. Further, individual pods is stupid as it means low passenger numbers and income. Even dumber, freight that's been travelling at sea for three weeks doesn't benefit from moving inland at 500mph.
The entire thing was a collective scam and political tool to dissuade high speed rail. Transport problems? Build a ****ing train!
I was waiting to see if someone would bring up the issue of land acquisition, good on you. You can't simply run a huge tube across someone's ranch or backyard for free. That alone would cost billions, and that's before any of the technical problems are addressed.
And is the tube bullet proof?
The passenger numbers thing is the most obvious problem IMO. Just compare what they have and plain old trains. Freight is beyond dumb, I don't even know where to start.
Thermal expansion and leaks.
The predicted running pressure difference is tiny compared to pipelines that have no leaks. Sealing expansion joints is bordering on trivial.
Pumping out air is significantly easier for hyperloop compare to an empty tube since the pods themselves will concentrate the air towards eclvacuation pumps.
Pipe breaches can be mitigated by controlled bleed air ahead of the supposed wall of air. Combined with baffle doors.
Baffle doors and large wall openings can provide sufficient access for recovery. Its not all maglev and can have rails or other track for works vehicles.
Passenger access does not have to be fast or ftom a vaccum since track switching has been demonstrated with no moving track or tube required. Simply divert a pod to a side track at full line speed, then isolate that side track with baffle doors and increase pressure to ambient.
Gotta do better than raise objections that have been solved years ago.
Land acquisition, yup a project killer, as too is the expected running cost.
Also: life support system onboard the pod for the case of an emergency, with evacuation hours away: solvable but would make the pod extremely heavy & bulky, or if you go without then a simple high-voltage cable failure could kill everyone in the tube by suffocation.
Think about this. 🤔
In the United States, the most common cause of *personal bankruptcy* is medical bills. The most common cause of *bankruptcy for municipalities* is infrastructure projects.
But, also think about this: *both* of these are unique to the US in the developed world. Should tell you that something is (or even multiple somethings are) very wrong in the US economic model.
The common cause of Medical bills is OBESITY.
Is it? I would think unsustainable service burdens would be more likely. Budgets for roads in most US cities is only around 2-4%, so that alone seems unlikely to cause bankruptcy. Maybe a really bad water or electricity system could be a cause? In the UK council bankruptcies are either down to rather unique circumstances like legal disputes or overwhelming service burdens like social care.
@@Croz89 Infrastructure goes far beyond roads, potable water, or electricity. Bridges cost far more to build and maintain than roads, handling sewer water or rain water is more expensive than potable water, and electricity is primarily handled by private industry as far as I know. It’s hard to say between the US and the UK, but the legal disputes that you speak of may be related to an infrastructure project.
@@Daneelro Bankruptcy from infrastructure projects are not unique to the United States. Think about how much it must cost to rebuild public infrastructure after a war.
All those millions weren't totally wasted. At least we have the CGI cartoons.
There was a video that pointed out the underlying mission of hyper loop was explicitly to direct money away from high speed rail projects, purely out of spite and/or profit.
This is what frustrates me about this channel and a few others. They deliberately distory the story to fit their format. Hyperloop one wasn't really a startup that failed. It was a lobbying campaign. Once you know that this entire video becomes pointless.
But wait, I thought government was good at investing.
Profit more than spite. Look up how much lobbying against rail have car & plane companies done throughout the years. The amount of money spent on legal bribes is astounding.
The biggest fail of US "democracy" is that politicians can be openly bought to protect interests of companies over their own people. Until that changes, nothing will ever improve for the people.
@@bdreed85 they are, just not for the people.
Pretty much all of the alternate transit proposals you see these days from silicon Valley and elsewhere fit into this category. There is an extreme aversion to investing in what works (trains and buses) while companies like hyperloop can just burn endless amounts of money. Truly perplexing
I think I'm remembering correctly - the single manned test they did, it wasn't in a vacuum.
So it was just a not terribly quick, tiny sled in a tube.
Someone rigged a roller-coaster sledge 😂
Sounds like something like that already exists... 🤔
Aye they basically built that weird tunnel chute from the Running man
When I was a pre-teen in east Ukraine in the 2000s, my mom got me a subscription to a journal called "Young Erudite". It had a bunch of popular science articles, including a section on "future technology" - basically concepts and ideas of what we could potentially have in the future.
One of those was about a potential future transport system which consited of tubes with air removed through which sleek looking carts on magnetic rails could speed through without any air resistance.
In no way was the concept of Hyperloop Musk's original idea, at best he only made up the name. But Musk use to have the kind of image and pull to build hype for things like these.
The concept wthout vacuum goes back to the 1800s, a specific vacuum implementation was even patented in the 50s (US2511979). But people just knew it would be too stupidly expensive to ever build, so no one did it.
Until a certain person made waves with "his" genius idea and pushed people to waste billions of dollars for a stupid idea that in the end didn't work and fizzled out.
I wonder what caused humanity to decline so far that a "this is a stupid waste of money and won't work, let's not do that" managed to turn to a "woohoo Elon wooooooo let's goo!"
“Hey Elon, what about you hyping the vacum loop thing we’ve talked about, so I can get investor interested and a nice CEO payout out of it”
“Suuuurrreee, you know you are my guy”
I love the concept photo of the hyperloop in parallel to the Golden Gate Bridge. It’s too bad that a cargo ship will crush the hyperloop on its way to the Bay area ports.
I was gonna comment something regarding that; it's sitting wayyy too low for ships to pass through. Good to know it wasn't just me who noticed.
I thought that too!
Funny that ships need to pass that point to reach one of Musk's Tesla car export wharfs.
Even better: if the cargo ship was carrying parts that would go toward making the new hyperloop. In fact, here are my imagined headlines:
“Ill advised hyperloop spawning the Golden Gate destroyed by cargo ship carrying parts for the hyperloop system.”
“Traffic on Golden Gate Bridge unaffected by impact.:
“Marin County Resident: ‘We rejected a proposal to bring BART to Marin; why did we allow this?’”
“Golden Gate Bridge Authority: ‘remember that proposal to build a second, lower deck on the Golden Gate Bridge for BART? Just saying, that was far enough over the water to allow cargo ships.”
“Muskrat simps: ‘Advances in science and technology will allow us to make the bridge immune to cargo ship impact.’”
“Opinion: forget how ridiculous Hyperloop is: what was the POINT of running a hyperloop connecting San Francisco to Marin County? The distances and number of people involved make it infeasible for HSR. The area would be better served with a commuter rail. Like that proposal to have BART run on a new lower deck for the Golden Gate Bridge (okay, I didn’t intend to bring that up three times. But it was a real proposal).
@@CSXIVMy thought was how many people are traveling from LA to San Fran like that ? It’s not that many. It’s not like NY to DC or Boston. Fucking dumb. It’s almost like they do no research.
I just want to point out that the curve at 4:13 would just instantly rip apart and explode the pod out of the tube if you took it at 700 Mph. High speed rail usually does up to 200 Mph and if you look at satellite pictures it has wider curves than that, even on old lines that weren't built to support speed boosts.
Yeah, that's why I always thought it was stupid for these hyperloop concepts to always show it running above land. There's too many obstacles running just above ground level in all but a few places (like the middle of nowhere). In most cases, if something like this was going to be built, it would have to be bored out underground or run under the ocean to connect continents.
All this infrastructure would cost a fortune to build out.
@@nicholaseckhart7900 Hence, airliners flying above ground obstacles, above weather and at max performance air density.
@@nicholaseckhart7900 Costing a fortune would be no problem if it were a sensible option of mass transportation that can expect long-term stable income - like high-speed rail or subways (or even airports). But those pods have a fraction of the carrying capacity of trains, the pods _and_ the tubes are a death trap in case of any emergency (forget explosive depressurization or tube implosion or earthquakes: you'll just suffocate if there is a power loss or leak and the pods get stuck in the tunnel for hours), maintaining this would be a nightmare (it's already damn difficult to find a leak in an overpressurized vessel, it's near impossible for a large vacuum chamber; and you'll have to stop, pressurize and then re-depressurize for any small repairs), you cannot rely on connections to existing infrastructure (like say HSR which can continue on conventional rail), and so on.
Yep. Curve radii on the never TGV lines in France have minimum curve radiuses above 4 miles, you'd need much more at the proposed Hyperloop speeds.
Reminds me of the Brad Pitt film Bullet Train, which takes place onboard a fictional Japanese train. The film was made on the basis of a Japanese book, but it was so obviously made for a US audience with no clue about rail travel, it's full of painfully unrealistic CGI, including whizzing by tight curves and bad guys just casually walking along the train roof next to the high-voltage catenary...
In the end hyperloop has the same problems any form of high speed travel has, if you've got to carry squishy meatbags, you can't stop, start or turn too quickly or you'll kill or injure them. That holds true whether you run on steel rails, levitate over magnets or shoot through an evacuated tube. So stations have to be far apart and the line between them has to be as straight as possible, and that is what makes such things so expensive to build, not your choice of interface between your vehicle and the ground. Usually the cheapest way to go in a straight line is to go where there is nothing in the way, i.e. the sky.
Just depressurizing the tube and keeping it depressurized at a near-vacuum is a daunting engineering challenging that only got more daunting as the segment distance increases. And then add in all the depressurization / repressurization failure scenarios and how do you give the passengers a reasonable chance to survive?
Maybe they should have started with optimizing existing mag-lev technology where 200-300+ MPH is real today.
Ya think?
What if we had something that had all the logistical and planning issue of a train line, but then had even more issues and could kill everyone inside from a small hole?
Fun times if one if those technical issues meant that passengers had to be transferred from one train, sorry from one pod to another pod whilst in the tunnels. Guess you would have to fill the tube up with air for safety redundancy and then once everything is fine then wait a few days for it all to be pumped out again. Or just take some chances on transferring those passengers under vacuum, l mean it would probably be alright as long as nothing unforseen should occur and how often does anything like that ever happen anyhow?
You know what is neat? When ACTUAL scientists and engineers (who do not work for the company) look at the CONCEPT and universally say "um... this will not work without MASSIVE leaps in materials sciences.' Then someone asked what failure looks like... and 100% fatality kept coming up... THEN someone actually calculated capacity and pointed out that the ROI was a negative number.There is a reason Elon does not trust experts... they seem to report reality and not his talking points. This is almost open scam territory as fundraising was sold on a 'trust us... this will work' basis.
I am frankly surprised he was not on Titan, what with the corporate ideological synergy he has with OceanGate's safety philosophy.
Eon actually did listen to the experts, that's why he didn't invest any of his time or resources into developing any hyperloop projects.
Scam how? Elon openly said it wasn't worth him persuing, and he didn't take money from anyone else that did pursue it. The people involved aren't idiots, they knew that this was going to be difficult to achieve, but when you're a university student its more interesting to be challenged to solve a problem that doesn't have a solution than working on something more mundane.
@@Axel_Andersen such a fine individual you are
Mid 2010s were such a neat time in retrospect. The whole hyperloop thing appeared when I was starting college for mechanical engineering. Everyone I talked to said basically „nah, that’s never going to happen“ not even because of the engineering side of things, but bc the infrastructure needed to be built was so much more complex than rail.
But still everyone loved the project. If these rich people have the money to sink into this, then why deny fellow engineers the job opportunity. Also, material sciences could make another step with that kind of requirement and investment.
I can’t imagine such a mindset post pandemic
Back then we didn’t realize how it was going to mess up public transportation investment, sadly.
@@kathym3188 Your last sentence answers your rhetorical question "why deny fellow engineers the job opportunity" . We should not allow rich people affect our llife with BS talk, weather it is Musk or Trump. We should hold them to as high standard as anyone of our mates. I'm up to hear with these people lying all the time and getting away with it.
We used pneumatic tubes to deliver measages in the 70s. I always wanted to use them to mix cocktails.
Great video. I’d only add one small bit of context that I’ve also seen other commenters mention: to fully understand the purpose of that Musk white paper, you need to understand the situation with high speed rail in the 00s in California and what Musk thought its impact on Tesla sales might be. Hyperloop was never intended to actually be built. It was intended to prevent high speed rail from being built.
To the surprise of no one who had a basic understanding of transportation and infrastructure. They took a train and managed to make it magnitudes more expensive, less reliable, more complex and remove the entire selling point of trains; they move stuff cheaply and reliably.
Not to mention physics and physiology.
Even if they just built the tunnels between two popular destinations, those could have been used for something else, even if hyperloop didn’t work out, they couldn’t even do that. They were stuck in concept lala land.
Anyone who understands physics and how difficult it is to work with near vacuum at sea level in a very long tube understand how stupid this project was.
when people understand that the speed trains are not quick because of their speed, but because of their efficiency (own tracks, straight lines, capacity) - the world will be a better place
That one hyperloop test with two people looked really interesting but we could improve it with a few simple tweaks. First, we could up the capacity by taking multiple pods and coupling them together. this would make it so that more people can travel along one route at one time. Next the tunnel its inside of is unnecessary and adds unneeded cost to the project. Getting rid of it would not one decrease the cost but it would also increase passenger experience by allow them to look out windows on the pods. Instead of the tunnel, we could put the pods on fixed tracks that would allow them to reach high speeds while still guiding the pods with the added bonus of allowing windows. it also allows for the size of the pods to be increased adding more capacity and comfort for passengers, even allowing them to walk around to go to the bathroom or even a cafe pod! Truly revolutionizing I can't wait to see what they will inovate next!
You watching too many Adam Something. Me too man. I want train and tram everywhere. My country got decent intercity train. Not high speed but there are many commuter. But lack public transport for inside city.
LMFAO....are you stupid or a bot? You're describing a TRAIN. The whole point of hyperloop is the use of vacuum tubes. I guess you could make the tubes transparent using thick acrylic and add windows into the capsule/pod if you want to keep the pipedream alive...🤣
Yeah. Adam something seems to get too much enjoyment out of showing how awesome trains are, and how smooth brained the Hyperloop idea was.
It just a train XD
Leave it to Silicon Valley billionaires to reinvent the high speed train and fail
So far the only viable option would be maglev, but even that is stupidly expensive. Just make a big network of regular high speed rail.
Dont support HSR, it will only increase taxes, especially for half the voters who prefer to drive or fly everywhere.
The distances in America make planes way more practical
@@redbullsauberpetronasthere are in fact many cities that next to each other. You would take a train ride form LA to New York uou would take a train between all the massive cities next to each other.
@@AL-lh2ht I'm guessing you've never lived in the Midwest or any less populated western state, that would never be practical in the parts of the country I've lived in
@@redbullsauberpetronas We connected the east and west coast with rail lines in the literal 1800s. I think we could figure it out. Also, the contiguous US is not as big as China and they seem to have figured out the whole rail over massive distances thing.
Interesting to see this from the outside having worked for Virgin Hyperloop from February 2020 until the first big layoff in 2022. I was the onsite IT tech at the Apex facility in Nevada. Got to see the 2 passenger tests we did (a detail that was incorrectly stated in this video as 1) in person. It felt very much like trying to get to the moon must have felt for NASA in the 60's. I think ultimately a lack of commitment to the future is what did it in. The technology is so cutting edge that some of it doesn't exist yet. So it takes a longterm investor with patience to really see it through. A disappointmeant to see it fall by the wayside as we had such intelligent folks working on the tech. Alas. Hopefully someone does it.
Its just a stupid idea,thats all!
12:25 Not true. People didn't want it from the start, knowing it's just a fraud. But nobody cared. Only those involved 'believed' in it. That's what means 'many believed in it'. Because their 'belief' meant funds.
Hyperloop One and Solar Freaking Roads will be part of the transportation infrastructure of 'Neom the City of the Future'😂
Yes, those two scams are like peas in a pod.
Fittingly, it was just announced that "NEOM the Line" was scaled down to a more manageable length of 2.5 km (down from 160). Reality is what bites you in the rear even if you don't believe in it.
@@richardmetzler7909 Don't worry, it'll be scaled down to a more manageable length of non existent soon enough.
Those were simpler times
@@alfgwahigain5544 Not at all, one was definitely a grift, the other was obviously the Glomar Explorer.
I remember seeing the announcements and plans for these projects and all the different companies that were trying to pull it off. It was really exciting and felt "futuristic" imagining we could live in an optimized era of travel, one that has high speed transportation, greatly decreasing travel times between large cities... oh wait, that exists (in other countries) already :(
I wonder if they had the same PR company as Segway.
It was dumb and obviously I’ll conceived!!!
This is nothing new. The Beach Pneumatic Transit built in New York City in the 1870's was essentially a proto hyperloop. It never got past the prototyping stage.
They built a station and a tunnel that was only a block long. It only operated for 3 years, then was largely forgotten about.
When I first hear this announced, all I could think of was it's such a target for terroist attacks, especially in the renderings (I presume 90% of track would be underground if it ever happened).
Love the idea of more green travelling, but honestly I would have been amazed if it ever actually happened anywhere in the world.
aside from all the other issues, putting a jet engine into a vacuum tube; even just in an artists rendition, should have raised all the red flags
Its in a vaccum, and theres a big ass fan on the front. Ooookkkkaaàyyyyyy.
True noticed that when this was ongoing😂😂😂 Its actually hard to believe how easy it is too fool people, especially people with high salaries.
When you get to that level, most of the people won't have any practical technical experience. It becomes an exercise in marketing and generating hype for the next funding round.
Musk literally talked about it being levitated on air skis, inside a depressurized tube... That tells you all you need to know about the claims of him being an "engineer". More like a cosplay engineer lmao
The investors are dumb for putting money into this
Killing investment in legacy mass transit was the goal of Hyperloop. In that regard it was a huge success.
Another job well done - who wants to invest in legacy things.
@@TylerDurden-pk5kmhumans.
Oh wait no it failed, CHSR is still going through and there are even private investors getting involved in the HSR game (Brightline will get to true HSR eventually, give them time)
That was a side benifit, it really was another Glomar Explorer.
@@TylerDurden-pk5kmBecause unlike fanciful, unproven concepts like Hyperloop, they actually work? Millions of people already travel by high speed rail each day, it’s a proven and mature mode of transport.
The remarkable thing is not that Hyperloop One collapsed, but that Elon Musk’s hype about this persisted for a decade (and billions of wasted investment) - when the only reason he proposed it in the first place was to try to derail HSR in California.
I think we all knew this was going to happen. The idea makes sense, and it’s relatively scientifically plausible, and it would work, but anyone could’ve done a basic feasibility study and determined that it would never be cost effective and worth doing.
It’s too expensive compared to HSR and not as mature, has serious capacity problems, and needs far more research and development than Maglev and other next-gen HSR techniques.
I don’t want to be the kind of person who just goes “Hurr-durr, a rich idiot reinvented the train but worse!”, but conventional HSR is very mature and more cost effective, and even maglev is far more mature and developed, and likely more cost effective still.
so a fun fact about those early attempts in the 19th century:
one design had a leather flap that had be opened and closed at certain times to make the atmospheric train (as they were called then, and in my opnion way better of a name than hyperloop) work, now to make sure the flap was properly sealed a mixture of beeswax and tallow was used, this lead to two problems:
1. that seal easily melted in heat, which while actually being part of the design, it meant that on a particularly hot summer in 1846 the seal wouldn't work properly and so the trains couldn't work properly.
2. The second major problem was that they used tallow, which was very attractive to rats, who would enter the pipes to eat through the seal. and then when they turned on the pumps everyday to operate the trains alot of them would die.
there were also many other problems that that and other attempts had, but just the whole history of them is actually quite interesting (especially with how they already had run into quite a few of the problems that the modern attempts have run into, but were still able to make relatively functional versions for short distances, if only for a short while each time).
Interesting, thanks for the information.
Ah yes, the smell of beef and rats getting turned into a fine paste. Well, there's your problem.
"so a fun fact" That was a quite different project. It was called the "Atmospheric Railway". The passengers travelled in a normal railway carriage. The tube was underneath the train. In the tube was a piston which was attached to the train. Air was evacuated ahead of the piston, so air pressure behind it pushed it forwards. This one was designed by Brunel, but there were others.
this isnt' actually what you think it is. the design involved a train with above the tube that was pushed by the air underneath it.
Well there's your problem.
Great video. The real problem with the Hyperloop is that it was neither hyper, nor a loop. It was fairly slow and only went in a straight line.
Loop means returns back
"Well, sir, there's nothing on earth
Like a genuine, bona fide
Electrified, six-car Hyperloop
What'd I say?
Hyperloop
What's it called?
Hyperloop
That's right! Hyperloop..."
This is what happens when a company overhypes a project and underdelivers, while said company is being helmed by the worst type of manchild from South Africa. Truly a genius moment for the investors that bought into the project.
hyperloop is a vacuum train. its an old one hundred year old concept that has never gotten beyond even a prototype.
@@toomanyaccounts Exactly, hasn't left the prototype stage a century ago or currently. The mismanagement of it both then and now is of no surprise.
Americans will do anything to avoid just building high speed rail even though we've known for decades it's by far the most efficient and practical form of transit and the only one that will work if we actually want to tackle climate change and traffic.
climate change LMAO
These climate loonies make no sense... Everything is about the climate.. aside from nothing we do having anything to do with it lol
@@PwnyDwn is an adult around that can explain a thermometer for you?`
and maybe also explain the concept of "making it way worse"?
@@ItsDemiMondaine look Buddy, if you would watch News Programms and not Nazis, you might notice how more frequent bad weather got ... or that spring is earlier every year
But proper trains means we'd have to share spaces with... *poors! And **_brown people!_*
Surprised Richard Branson got involved because - as someone who ran a UK based rail company (Virgin Trains) over infrastructure that was in part designed by Isambard Kingdom Brunel, he should of been aware of one of Brunel's rare failures - an air-powered railway that ran on tubes and propelled by compressed air. Not to 600MPH, or even 60! I believe some parts of his Atmospheric Railway are preserved in a museum in the UK somewhere (at Didcot Railway Centre I believe)
He bankrupted his hyperloop and Virgin galactic
Brunel thats a real engineer
This is a point to point concept, not like a train with stations along the way. So when you add the time getting to the hyperloop station, parking your car, getting the bus or walking to the actual entrance, checking in, getting on board and the repeating this at the other end its not significantly faster than a plane.
The thing about “Hyperloop” was even though the tech could have theoretically been made to work (just would have cost more than 100x the cost that Musk claimed), the idea was dead on arrival - the pods simply carried too few people, your capacity would be trash (one or two thousand passengers per day per tube), so you’d need dozens and dozens of tubes in each direction (each tube would cost many times what a high-speed rail line that can carry hundreds of thousands of passengers a day).
Calculating capacity is a back-of-the-envelope calculation - if your scheme fails that, it will never be viable despite how ‘high-tech’ it is. There’s a reason every financially viable mass transit going these kind of distances has hundreds of seats, not 12…
Hyperloop was unveiled during the time when most people still loved Elon Musk. If you question his ideas, there will be a horde of people who will attack you. In the past, he wasn't very open about his political views, but now, people were quick to question his new idea.
Yup, before the real elon emerged, I genuinely thought that this guy gets it. Then I did some digging and OMG, what a clown! He's a complete fake. A modern day sleaze ball who pretends to be something he's not all because he has access to mommy and daddy's money. Anyone who does business with him at this point is just stupid.
People pointing out how deranged he's openly gotten are still getting dogpiled now, tbh.
Fascist space karen has failed his hyperloop, boring company and X4chan 2.0
He was never involved in the Hyperloop, he just encouraged people to pursue the idea.
Thunderf00t, to name but one, immediately called out hyperloop for the nonsense it is. And, yes, he got dogpiled by the Musk fanbois and gurls ("All hail the whitepaper!")
Hyperloop: we have a better way to move cargo. UPS, Fed Ex, DHL: really?
Also Train.
My first job out of college was driving the courier vehicle used to deliver donor organs from the airport to the hospital. Literally the MOST time-sensitive cargo. And even they told me to obey all posted speed limits 100 percent of the time, no matter what. High speed cargo is a fully solved problem: No one needs their Stuff faster than they are already getting it.
@@jeremy____5747 That's a fucking wild first job if ever I've heard one, out of all the things you could've done and THAT happens to fall into your lap?
@@RhelrahneTheIdiot I needed a job and the job was open.
The vehicle was marked ("American Red Cross Biomedical Services") and in theory I could have called for a police escort if there was a traffic jam and I was stuck for more than like 15 mins, but it never actually happened.
@@jeremy____5747did you need special licensing ?
I dont get it, why US doest build hi-speed train lines over country, like rest of the world has. Where thousands of passangers would travel with all of they belongings and stuff . Who needs some small tube with ability to carry 1-4 persons max almost without luggage. How such scam can be even passed through.
Germany has already build it: Transrapid..While no vacuum tube, it was a maglev train reaching 500km/h, 310mph. But the linear motor in the rails made it just far too expensive for long distances to replace airplanes, and the limited acceleration (passengers are no fighter pilots) made it unsuitable for short distances and many stops. You should have listened.
A new method may be rails (or tubes) just made out of cheap steel and the motor in the train. But that requires energy in the train, a battery ?
Anyone notice that the "pods" have approximately the same shape and size as that titanic sub?
Yep.. and massive pressure differentials wasn't a problem at all....
I think that incident was the final nail in the coffin for this.. It made people afraid of this thing.
There were always so many substantial problems with the fundamental concept of how this would work that were never answered. How do you maintain a vacuum chamber that’s hundreds of miles long? What happens if a pod breaks down halfway? What if there’s a failure of the tube? How is oxygen even supplied to people inside a pod that’s inside a vacuum tube? It creates more problems than it solves.
In more recent Hyperloop related news concerning that new test track built in the Netherlands that includes the first ever 'switch' segment it is promoted as being the longest Hyperloop test track built so far. Even then it is really not that long as you can still see from end of the tube to the other.
What business are you in?
Hyperloop: I'm in the business of selling hopes and dreams for unreasonably wealthy dudes.
13:44 Mentioning types of "transportation that actually work and exist" while showing a Deutsche Bahn train, exactly my humor
1: The issues with DB aren't that the system doesn't work. What we're seeing is the result of 30 years of chronic underinvestment. In fact, it's a miracle that it works as well as it does. And it still performs better than most of the French rail network.
2: That's an Israeli Railways train. In Israel...
@mikeblatzheim2797 tbf they do use very similar, if not the same rolling stock (just look at those Doppelstockwagen) and even the same corporate colour
Air Sledd has solved the engineering problems and actually works
@@mikeblatzheim2797 I mean, SNCF is excellent if one of the ends of your itinery is already quite a major city and the other end is Paris. Otherwise, why would you have such a proposterous and outright absurd idea to have such an itinery.
Japan is pretty much linear, not much of network complexity.
Amtrak being the best such national railway system in the americas is more of a testament to the americas than to Amtrak.
China doesn't let you buy transfer tickets, again reducing complexity.
And finally to drive home the point of how underrated DB is: Which other railway has any major limiting capacity bottleneck onto the entire nation - that is bloody six tracks wide? Name me any other one!
it's so frustrating to see so much money get pissed up a wall like this when we could have trains and public transport options instead of whatever the fuck fake scy-fy bullshit some tech bro thinks up while high off his shit
Work harder - get a car!
Investors spent their money. If you want a train, go build your own. A few hundred million were spent on R&D for hyperloop one. The Callifornia HSR project cost estimate recently rose again to $105 billion (more than double the initial cost). It makes more sense to R&D an idea that is orders of magnitude more efficient than spend 100 billion dollars on a train.
@@TylerDurden-pk5km Thatcherism is out of vogue.
@@offensivearchIt's not more efficient. Hyperloop funds were just to validate a proof of concept, whereas HSR is bogged down by land acquisition and other legal costs that a real Hyperloop build would likewise face.
@@smithysmith4637so is Bidenomics
As a railfan, there's nothing more offensive than a train you cannot see.
Outstanding as usual Jake. Have been watching your videos since you were a young teenager. I am waiting for you to start producing shows in Hollywood.
You keep saying the tube is pressurised but isnt it the opposite its meant to be a vacuum so it is depressurised.
Yeah , he kept saying that.
Yeah he should've said depressurized. Also hyperloop isn't a perfect vacuum (that would be a vactrain), hyperloop keeps some residual air pressure in the system
EXACTLY!!!!
@@offensivearch It's basically the same as a vacuum. Pretty much to get air pressures low enough to do what they were trying to do, you have to be most of the way to a vacuum. To the point where you have essentially the same set of problems as a low vacuum. Also, there is effectively no such thing as a perfect vacuum, especially at these scales. If you go listen to people who work with that sort of thing, you find out that all sorts of things you'd never expect outgas at low pressures. To the point where maintaining a low vacuum in even a small space can be challenging.
I think this is the fastest I've ever clicked on a Bright Sun video!
I followed the development of this stunning new technology for the better part of a decade. I knew all along that something was off about this emerging technology as it never overcame the fundamental challenges that plagued building these immense vacuum tubes while simultaneously embedding tracks with magnetic levitation/acceleration equipment. Had these engineering bugs been worked out, perhaps this could've proven feasible indeed.
Nothing makes you realize how truly stupid the US is being about trains and other public transit like spending even a brief time wandering around almost any other country.
Being able to land in a country and just… go wherever, with no real stress outside of tickets selling out for a specific train or something, has absolutely changed my life lol
Land of the free (if you have a car)
If you want to know the reason why the hyperloop was always a pipe dream, just look up "railroad tank car vacuum implosion" on RUclips. And that was a very small pressure vessel crushed by one atmosphere of pressure. Now imagine that pressure vessel is miles long and any minor defect along its length will pancake any poor fool traveling inside.
i trust elon more then u, hes the man who invented the rocket to mars, the car who drive himself, he invent the free speech in the world on X, and what about you? You invent just a single youtubes comment ROFLMAO
The whole thing was a ploy to stop high speed rail in California, and sadly it worked.
Why sadly? I dont want to see it built. It will only benefit LA and SF, not to mention there are mountains in the way and it will not make it even go at its maximum speed without risking derailment. Plus, the biggest lawyers, land owners, farmers, and environmentalists are teaming up to sue the state for this project, thus delaying. Lastly, in 2025, I heard the budget is gonna be projected to be $150 BILLION. Almost 1/6 the cost of our entire interstate!
Ah yes, god forbid it benefit two of the highest population centers in the US.
@@Labyrinth6000 "Only" LA and SF... just the two largest population centers in California. Also, the line would also serve a large chunk of the central valley so that's not even true.
@@Labyrinth6000 have you...seen the plans...they are not going thru the mountains....and there are so little risks of derailment do you do even a bit of research how do you speak so confidently of a thing you have no idea about.
@@Labyrinth6000 literally just sounds like sour grapes from you. Tell us the real reason you don't like it
The government should be funding this 100%. East to west coast for a start. Then private cmpanies can offshoot from the main hub to other locations.
In any electrical machine, the so-called *active material is the most expensive part* - that engineers usually try to limit for cost efficiency of the entire system. Linear drives, be it in tubes with vacuum or on a monorail outside always suffer from very high costs per mile for the active stator material all along its rail, which is the actual motor with coils from aluminum or even copper, silicon steel lamination stacks again and again and again - while they are just one to few metres (!) long in a conventional electric drive that travels inside and together with an engine (the same few coils are pushing the machine's rotor again and again per each revolution). The frequency of shuttles needed to pay off such high costs per mile of a linear stator all along the way would have to be incredible. If ever such linear stators shall become economically viable (or raw material prices for copper/aluminum/silicon steel surprisingly crash to bottom), then small freight shuttles and flight passengers have to use such system in order to maximise its use per hour and contribute to paying off the linear long stator rail. Such rail must avoid any competition with road or air transport on its route in order to earn back the immense investment per mile at all.
I personally travel by high speed trains pretty frequently between metropoles in Europe. Flying would take around one hour, with the need for airport transfers and about an hour for security checks etc.. High speed trains take me from one centre of a large city to another, while enjoying comfy work places in 1st class and gastronomy or hot drinks delivered to my place. Travel times of 3 to even 4 hours from downtown to downtown are hardly matched if travelling by air, not even to mention all the hassle.
Countries like the USA will ideally build conventional high speed routes for modern trains travelling 160-250 miles per hour. Europe is currently extending its high speed railway network to the north east (Baltic countries).
Meanwhile, an "express" (!) train in Russia, connecting Moscow with a major city like Bryansk travels at 65 miles per hour - very much room for simply building modern railway networks before even discussing ideas like "hyperloop".
The tubes aren’t pressurized…they are the opposite of pressurized.
He's known for Disney World reviews, I knew it wasn't going to be the most accurate video. I wanted to give it a chance anyway. At least he got the conclusion right, this was all just a distraction from actual high speed rail investment.
WTYP Gang, where you at?
I will admit, wasn't expecting you to cover this topic BSF. Good Video! Breaking into non-car transport is interesting. I wonder what a Bankrupt Penn Central would look like, it is a very layered topic.
sup
Hi!
Great video as usual, but you didn't give a great explanation for what separated hyperloop from other vacuum trains.
The short of it was while previous attempts assumed you need high vacuum to be successful, hyperloop suggested medium vacuum which surprisingly solved a lot of the engineering problems.
Still think the tech is interesting and disappointed they didn't get farther.
I recall reading somewhere that even our stupid man of the hour Elon himself knew that Hyperloop would be unrealistic but simply just wanted it to buzz around so that it could get the existing plan for a High speed railway between San Fransisco and Los Angeles cancelled, all because he saw high speed rail as a threat to his Tesla sales.
And like you said even if Hyperloop worked it just wouldn't make sense. The technical hurdles are too large but combined with the fact that each vehicle would only have room for 10-20 people max, aka the amount of a minibus, compared to the 300-1200 passengers of a High Speed train depending on its size, really also says a lot. That alone also makes high speed rail more affordable to use for the general public, while Hyperloop would have to be so expensive to weigh out the demand that it would only be a feasible option for the ultra rich elite. Basically making it a rich man shuttle that no average joe would EVER have any use for.
It was solving a problem that doesn't really exist.
Trains work really well for short & long journeys, for heavy and light loads. Invest to keep improving them, not to replacement. Unfortunately these $Billion investors what HUGE profits from exciting projects rather than just a normal, decent return for improving everyday stuff we actually need.
They safety concern is what bothers me, we got several people traveling at hundreds of miles an hour in a pressured tube. One depressurization or pod failure could cause a catastrophic accident with no way to escape. I know I wouldn't want to travel this way. Not to mention the impracticality of the system
Listen, Elon Musk put Teslas, which are well-known for being on fire, in a tunnel in Los Angeles with no emergency exit.
The same guy who laid off all the moderators of Twitter/X. Who violated basic security measures with his Space X projects...
to be fair the same is true of planes and they just institute extra safety standards. but hsr would be far more reasonable
@@daphne4407Wrong! A plane can navigate down to a breathable level. If this thing broke then there was no way out!!!
Yeah planes are far more safer, given someone is flying it
@@daphne4407 Think of a soda can. When u havent cracked it open yet the sides are strong, When u crack it open it hisses and u can crumble the sides in if u want. Imagine if u would pull a vacuüm on a can, it would crush into its self. This is basically the problem with hyperloop. All the problems and dangers of air travel but now on the ground.
If Elon was hellbent on hyper-speed terrestrial transportation, then the Hyperloop (aka Hype-A-Loop in my book) should not be vacuum, which requires space engineering of the Mars-colonization sort.
Instead, it should be an air funicular for bi-directional travel with air blown one-way constantly by air pumps that would
otherwise be used to vacuum the tubed loop. There will be air valves and bypasses along the loop to accommodate stoppages for passenger embarkation and disembarkation. I haven't done the math, but am sure there will be comparatively much less element in the equation, safety for one as "implosion/explosion" is moot.
I remember hearing about the proposed Transatlantic Tunnel back in the early 2000's, which would supposedly take you from New York to London in a few hours. I was a teenager so I thought it sounded rad. And yeah, it would be pretty rad if we could actually build these things. But it will stay in the realm of science fiction for the foreseeable future.
Can you imagine if there was an issue down there . Pretty much everybody would die
@@unnamedchannel1237 Pure nightmare fuel.
The concept is about depressurized tubes not pressurized tubes. The proposed speeds required a vacuum or the system would burn up .
One of the things alot of people wildly underestimate is just how much force there is in atmospheric pressure. A vacuum chamber that big for that long, even if it's not a prefect vacuum, stores insane amounts of energy. We're talking about nuclear bomb levels of energy. If it should collapse, or a section rapidly depressurize, we're talking about an incredible shockwave that would likely destroy the track for many miles and kill anyone who happened to be inside. Thunderfoot on RUclips has had alot of fun taking this thing apart. While I don't agree with everything he says, he's right on this.
Fact is, air resistance, if designed for properly, really isn't that big of a deal for stuff like trains. It's way easier to deal with that than deal with somehow building a giant vacuum chamber and even just keep it anywhere near the pressure its supposed to be. And while it might not be proposed to be a low vacuum, it's still plenty low enough to be a giant headache to build and maintain. For high speed trains, most of the air resistance comes from the front since trains are long and skinny. There's a little on the sides, but mostly just the front. That's really not that big of a deal, even at high speeds, at least not for something like a well designed train.
Oh and don't forget the fact that shipping cargo by these things is especially stupid. Right now, cargo that doesn't need to be there fast ships by conventional train or boat because those are incredibly efficient. If it needs to be there fast, it ships by air. Somewhere in the middle, by truck. All these are massively cheaper, higher capacity, and more energy efficient than these pods. For humans, we mostly want to get where we're going fast. It's hard to beat an airplane for speed. And those are steadily getting better and more energy efficient. One thing to consider is commercial aviation basically IS travel in a low pressure environment. It's not a vacuum, but cruising altitude for commercial aviation is too low pressure for humans to remain conscious for very long. Except planes don't need expensive fixed tracks wherever they go. And they can actually travel faster because they can do much straighter routes than any land based system could do.
Agree with all that, but point out that for many distances trains beat air travel because of the delays in getting from city center to the plane and back. I regularly take a six hour flight, but the journey takes almost twelve hours. If there was a train high speed train I would use it. To get to the flight in time I need to leave home four hours early (via car) to be at the airport three hours before the flight to get through all the check in and security etc. And once at the destination wait half an hour for baggage and then a taxi that takes more than hour to get to the city center.
I came to the comments to see if anyone was going to reference Thunderfoots debunking of this. Thank you very much for posting this!
@@Axel_Andersen Agree that flights do have significant overhead that can make them not make sense for shorter trips. Your example could probably be optimized a bit (for example, they say 3 hours, but you rarely actually need that, especially if you have TSA Precheck). But regardless, there's definitely a distance below which other forms of transportation can be better than a flight. Mythbusters actually did that (car vs flight). But that also sort of implies you don't really need super high speed trains. If your distances aren't that long, it can be difficult for trains to even get up to really high speeds, especially if you want reasonably frequent stops. Regular high speed trains, like Brightline are probably fine for those sorts of distances. But if you aren't going crazy fast, then you don't really need to put your trains in a near vacuum because air resistance isn't that significant.
@@ccoder4953 Agree. City center to city center any train is very convenient for many distances and beats air planes, often high speed is not necessary. I'm from Scandinavia so TSA is not relevant for me and I know 3 hours before flight is usually an overkill but that is what they say I should do so travelling with wife that is what we do :)
Space already *_is_* a vacuum: We should build the Hyperloop in space! Where's my billion-dollar funding?
it wasn't musks idea. the idea was from the 60s read all about it here: hidden in plain sight, beyond the xfiles, its been built and with public money but just not for the public. Dr. Richard Sauder’s book Hidden in Plain Sight is an explosive, eye-opening sequel to his best-selling, Underground Bases and Tunnels: What is the Government Trying to Hide? In these pages, Dr. Sauder asks, and often answers, such questions as: Where are the secret underground bases? How far down do they go? What leaks are coming from the classified world? What has the U.S. Navy planned for beneath the ocean floor? Are there bases beneath the ocean? What’s going on beneath Washington, D.C.? Are there high-speed, underground maglev systems? What is the connection with UFOs and the alien question? This is a book that truly goes where no other book has gone before. It is a must-read for any and all who are seeking to understand the full magnitude of the Matrix-like reality of our civilization. Using a combination of archival research, on-the-scene investigation, and firsthand interviews, Sauder takes the reader into a world that is under the ground and under the ocean. It is a world that we are supposed to think is impossible, and yet-after reviewing his evidence-seems all too likely.
@1:31 "... a pressurized tube with a low air density..." Those are opposites. It's either high-pressure (pressurized) or it's low-pressure (low air density).
And again @2:30 "... pressuring it so there's very little air resistance..." Do you not know what words mean?
Jake, as a long time fan of your work ... I couldn't help but think was watching one of your great Disney "abandoned" vids about some ride that was designed, prototyped, but then canceled due to real construction costs and timelines far exceeding the early estimates. LOL
The funny thing about bankrupt companies here in Guadalajara, México is that on a shopping mall called Patria mall, not only is there a Chuck e Cheese, but next to It Is a Bed Bath & Beyond.😂
BTW cool video, keep up the good work Jake!
Dude you're kidding me there's a chuck E. cheese at plaza patria?
Honestly I haven't seen a whole lot of empty places in malls
Maybe I'm just not looking in the right places
There is my mixed feelings of wanting to see this technology work in the future, but also the feeling of lets make what we currently have work first. In a cosmic timetable, we went from walking across the Bering Strait to landing on the moon in a blink of an eye. In a human sense, a child who read about the first flight also watched the first moon landing. In a shorter leap, we went from barely understanding how to launch a satellite to launching a space station in just over a decade. Given enough time the technology will develop and we can create cool stuff like this. Until then, lets get Amtrak the infrastructure they need to be on time and profitable. How about high speed rail between LA to Vancouver or Houston Minneapolis? That's technology we have today while we develop stuff like hyper loop in the background.
The basic idea was "build a maglev* in a giant vacuum chamber, and it will be cheaper than a maglev." Doesn't take much - and it never did take much - insight to realize that adding a humongous vaccum chamber to a maglev along with the infrastructure to keep it at a vacuum while allowing passengers - or their pods - to enter and exit, can *not* make it cheaper than a maglev alone, and maglevs are already very, very expensive and only really make sense, if at all, on routes where high speed rail is already highly feasible. The idea was dead from the start.
Just build high speed rail.
Some will opine, that the hyperloop would be faster - well, it might have a faster *top speed*, but one of the most important things to understand when planning to make routes take less time, is that, other things being equal, increasing the speed in the slowest sections gives greater ROI timewise, than increasing the speed in the fastest sections. The very slowest sections, of course, are the stops, which is why many express trains don't actually go much faster than the slowest trains on the same route, they just stop at fewer stations. Now make the logistics of a stop much more complicated, by for instance adding some sort of air lock mechanism that needs time to engage and be secured before you can even open the doors, and you'll need to increase the top speed quite a lot just to catch up with the slower train that doesn't need that. It would result in a time saving only on long routes with few stops, but the longer the route, the greater the investment! Even with maglev, there's a very limited combination of circumstances that allows it to maybe be economically justifiable, basically a route with sufficient distance between major stops to reach considerably higher speeds than high speed rail, but not so great a distance as to make it financially completely out of reach, and very importantly, a high volume of passengers to pay off the investment. All factors that would have already made building high speed rail a no-brainer.
Just build high speed rail.
*) I know "Elon" (i.e. Musk) originally proposed making it float on a sort of air hockey table... i.e. constantly pumping air *into* the giant vacuum chamber. Anyone who took that proposal seriously really, really, really need to have not only their common sense, but indeed their basic understanding of relationships between words and phenomena in material physical reality thoroughly checked.
I don't know whether Musk just didn't want to say "maglev," because it would make it a bit too obvious that you can't make a maglev cheaper by adding a very expensive component, or whether he genuinely did not understand that you need to pump air *out* of a vacuum chamber, not *into* it. Or maybe even that is attributing too much thought about the subject to him, and he just went "air hockey table, floaty things, vacuum chamber, fasty things, yeay!"
think about it, to make this work, you need a giant vacuum chamber, a pressure vessel to survive in said vacuum chamber, something to move and stop said pressure vessel in said vacuum chamber at ridiculous speed, and that's just the basics, i will take high speed rail or maglev over this anyday of the week