You're just salty cause they're the only show that didn't suck up to the leafs even though they're leafs fans. Tim and sid aren't afraid to go on a rant about any team.
Nylander was going to get paid $6.5 million to $7.0 million by someone. That is the nature of contracts for young players nowadays, You pay for potential. So the problem isn't dollar amount. The real problem is that Toronto shouldn't be have a $7.0 million dollar forward as their 4th highest-paid forward and as a 2nd-line winger. Because when you already have an $11 million forward (Tavares), another $11 million forward (Matthews), and probably a $10 million forward (Marner), then having another $7 million forward in Nylander results in you being very top-heavy up-front and there isn't balance between salary structure amongst forwards and defensemen. Paying Nylander $7 million as your 4th best forward and 2nd-line winger is why you are forced to play 38-year-old Ron Hainsey on your top defense pairing, getting 20+ minutes per night of ice-time. Does that seem like what a Stanley Cup contender should be doing when it comes to structuring their team? This isn't Playstation 4 EA Sports NHL 19, where you can just load up on expensive forwards and win. Real hockey doesn't work that way, unless you are the 1980's Oilers or 1990's Penguins and have guys like Gretzky and Lemieux driving the bus. Now, people will say "You have to pay Nylander $7.0 million so Matthews has talented players to play with". That is kind of wrong. The reason Matthews is getting paid $11 million is because there is an expectation that he can make players around him better. He is expected to turn average players into top producers when he is getting paid $11 million, just like how Sidney Crosby turned Kunitz and Hornqvist into credible offensive threats. So the whole argument of "You must pay Nylander $7.0 million so Matthews has support" is bogus.
Yep. Spot on. Not the way it used to be. When guys got the big contracts in their late 20s. For instance I’m a Sabres fan. We gave eichel 10 million. Wasn’t that he has done a lot but you’re paying for what he can and probably will do.
Couldn't agree more, I like the way Dubas has been handling things but the Nylander signing was a bonehead move. We need defense and depth not an overpaid forward that isn't even our top 3.
agree 100%..any rational mind would've traded nylander after the tavares signing for a much needed top defense man. given their situation, the nylander signing was a huge blunder on dubas' part
You make a super valid point. But I ask you this, keeping in mind I'm biased because I'm a Bruins fan. Is tavares truly worth 11 when compared to other players? Is Matthew's? I understand u pay big to lock down productive players but even in a rising salary cap world it would be more realistic to pay marner Matthew's and Tavares around 9 to 10 million each. That frees up almost 5 mill in cap allowing you to get that dman at 4 mill or justify another 7 million dollar player. I hate comparing to the Bruins but the Bruins have that first line for ballpark 18 mill. And tavares alone is 11. These slight overpays catch up because the cap doesn't rise to cover all of them
@@reecewilliams155 it's all about timing man. if the bruins are to renegotiate the first line's contracts now, there's no way you get all three at 18 million.
Despite what Bob is saying...if players aren't willing to to take a discount for the sake of the team...it tells you something about their attitude. There is no way Matthews should be making more than Tavares unless it was for 8 years...People complain about Marner, but its hard to argue that he doesn't deserve it based on his production.
Nylander deal is fine. Problem was the timeline. For those asking for a Nylander trade - stop. This is the worst time to trade him. The guy is a solid player and with a full off season and training camp he should be up near point per game next year. If you want to trade him after a decent season okay. At least we would get something of value in return. Matthews deal was tough - I don't like that figure for 0 UFA years, but what are you gonna do? The media hypes him up so much that he becomes the 2nd best player in the league and we have to pay him before he even does anything. Tavares - 7 @11. This guy could have got 14 in SJ. So yes it is a discount. Still a hefty tag, but he has another 4-5 elite years in him. I like Tavares on this team - brings some much needed maturity. Marner - hoping to convince him to take what? 10? ceiling is Matthews deal, floor is probably 10. Doesn't really matter that much. Wish we signed him last year when we could have gotten 8 @ 8. All of the above is actually fine - these are our stars and they are being paid roughly what they need to get paid. The problem contracts are - #1 - Marleau @6.25. (Lou Lamoriello) He was brought over for his leadership and mentoring ability - great. But he was playing on the 3rd line in SJ before he left. He actually hurts the team by being on the ice. He was a great player, and had a great career, but it's time to hang them up. #2 - Zaitsev @ 4.5 (Lou Lamoriello). This guy is average offensively and average defensively. Lots of mistakes. Not a pushover, but not overly tough. IMO could be replaced by Dermott. We can't afford to give average players above average contracts. #3 - Kessel @1.2. (Lou Lamoriello) Yes. That's right. We are still paying Phil 1.2 million. Can't we dump this and a pick to a team struggling to reach the cap floor? Eliminating 1.2 would be like paying tavares 9.8 or Nylander 5.8. This would help so much. I hope Dubas has a plan to get rid of these gifts from Lou.
Well Said. 100% Correct. Especially the Marleau part. That's obvious. Marleau should have only been here on a 2-Year deal, not 3. I don't agree with what some of Don Cherry says but when Zaitsev signed that deal he commented that it was too high. Lou said at the time that he was a bargain for what he would develop into. But wouldn't his replacement by Calle Rosen and not Dermott seeing as how Dermott is already a mainstay whereas Rosen will surely be in the Top 6 Pairing. Or are you taking into account if they shoot RH or LH ?
Lolol nylander is a 2nd line player who's gonna get 50 pts tops per year, playing behind marner, Matthews, tavares. Has zero intangles who gets wiped at the playoffs. Leafs are getting fucked at the cap and they are paying 7 mil for this useless POS. Leafs fans - wouldn't it be nice if u had 7 mil to spend on a defenseman instead? Hahahhaha. Yea that's what I thought
I agree but Rielly is just as effective as his defensive partner is able to help him out defensively. Rielly is good defensively but it was obvious he has problems with bigger guys and needs a strong/solid partner.
Nylander = Overpaid by 500k by Dubas Matthews = Overpaid by 500k by Dubas Marleau = 6.3 million 4th liner via Lamoriello. Zaitsev = 4.5 million 3rd pairing D via Lamoriello. Whose mistakes will hurt the Leafs more next year?
Yeah no. Matthews is a MASSIVE overpayment. At 11.6 mill he's the second highest paid player in the league, and he had 70 points for the first time in his career and was invisible (again) for game 7. Leon Draisitl gets 8.5 for the next 6 years and he just had 50 goals and 105 points as a 22 year old. Sorry but Matthews should be at 7.5-8 mill very most and Taveras at 9.
matthews was the best forward for toronto in the playoffs. matthews and tavares could have gone to many teams for more than what they signed for in toronto. you don't know much about hockey, the nhl, economics, or finance in general. stick to playing house league and watching pavel barber videos.
Bobs the goat... the rest of this panel should just be taking notes... but buddy in the purple tie is too busy on his cell ordering some skip the dishes...
I'm convinced if Lou was still here (and I wish he was) he would have given Nylander a hard deadline, something like November 1, or "you sit". In hind sight, it was easy to see that Nylander wanted to play and that's why he reached out to Dubas at the last minute, and Dubas caved. We also saw that the Leafs were never the same after Nylander joined the fold. They were playing so well up to the point when they traded Leivo. It also appeared like Marner checked up at the end of the season, to avoid injury before getting into his pay day negotiation.
And Ferris is absolutely leaking content to the media to get them talking about how $11M is reasonable for a winger who played with Tavares all year. Marner is great, but $9M great.
Claiming Lou or other gm's could have gotten the same deal with willie in september is a stretch. If that deal was there in september it probably would have happened, but willie's camp was still demanding more than 7 before the season started. With the way contracts are trending the willie deal could be really good.
Nylander's amount as Bob says isn't a huge issue, its the fact that he signed 4 big contracts when realistically there was only capacity to sign 3 players. It was tough that he was the 2nd in the 4 signings (Tavares July 2018, Nylander Dec 2018, Mathews Jan 2019, Marner Sept 2019) The issue on Nylander was he shouldn't of signed him. He had more value to trade after a) back to back 60 point seasons and b) not having a signed contract with $ and term allowing the team that acquires him to negotiate then he does now to trade. Plus I would argue that had Dubas traded him, he would of had more leverage negotiating cap friendly deals with Mathews and Marner. It also would have freed up the $$ to sign character and grit complimentary pieces up front and in the back end and in net. That is the issue
Ive always like Bob McKenzie his point of view always makes sense to me... hopefully willy bounces back in October. Please sign marner tho love that kid.
It’s pretty simple really. If you don’t pay the top players then they’ll go somewhere else. I have no problem with the Nylander deal. If he bounces back next year it will be a good contract. It’s not complicated. If you want the talent you have to pay and make it work within the cap.
It's confirmation bias. A lot of the people saying the Nylander deal is terrible are the same people who were saying to trade him for a shut-down defenceman going all the way back to July 1st when the Leafs signed Tavares. And now they still want to trade him for a top 4 d-man, even though they claim he sucks and is way over-payed.
You mean not signing Tavares makes it easier to sign your home grown guys? Gasp! It like I was saying that back on July 1st..oh wait I was. I mean Bob's right, it would be a slower build but you keep the band together. It's easy for me saying it as a fan and not a GM of a team, especially in a market like TO and especially when they haven't won in forever, but it was/is the truth.
Agreed about Tavares. As well as he played, and I know people think he could have got more elsewhere, the Leafs could not, and cannot afford Tavares, Nylander, Mathews, and Marner.
I said all along that the deal that would really handcuff the Leafs would be the Marleau signing. They should never have signed Marleau, and I have great respect for the player and the man. From a business standpoint and a developmental standpoint, signing Marleau for three years and 6 million per year - taking away important ice time from a young player to develop and then not being able to make a deadline deal for another defenceman prior to the playoffs this year sunk the Leafs. They rolled the dice on Marleau, wrongly believing he might get them a cup. It didn't seem like it might be a cap problem at the time. Then they got really lucky signing Tavares. Next year was going to be their year regardless, if Lamoriello had stayed the course. Now, even that scenario is in jeopardy! The Leafs may now be destined to be a good team for quite some time, just not a championship team. Thanks Lou!
They were playing great before Nylander returned. Had great chemistry and enthusiasm. It wouldn’t have hurt the team if Nylander sat out the year or was traded and Dubas would have gained a hell of a lot of respect. The Marner deal is now a big problem for the team. And even trading Nylander now won’t help much because they would lose face and likely have to eat some of his contract while still paying Kessel and Horton.
I honestly would've respected Dubas a lot more if he would've not signed Nylander but let him sit out. The team was better without him if you look at the stats this year...
He makes excellent points and pretty much sums up what's wrong with how Dubas runs his team. Signing Tavares was one of the most greedy and stupid things somebody could possibly do when their roster was already stacked.
At least for the Leafs, Nylander's cap hit per Spotrac from 2019-20 until 2023-24 is $6.962M and the Salary Cap is going to grow to a degree between now and then for three reasons. - First, the NHL is actually doing a good job year-over-year at generating revenue. Revenue from 2017-18 was up 63.3% from 2007-08 per Statista. - Second, Seattle's NHL team is joining the league in 2021-22 which should increase HRR. - Third, the television deal in the United States is up in 2012-22 with NBC Sports. In the current TV deal, the NHL receives $200M a year from NBC Sports, and that's likely to grow to around $220M-$250M from whatever broadcast partner(s) the National Hockey League works with. Which does affect HRR, and affects the Salary Cap. If Nylander had a cap hit of $6.962M this season instead of $10.2M, that would rank for 30th among all forwards in the NHL in front of Ryan Kesler ($6.875M) and behind Evander Kane and James van Riemsdyk ($7M). The situation with Nylander last season was bad, but it could've been a lot worse, and he may not be as overpaid as people think.
@Pistol Pete The cap could be up $8-15 million by 2021-22, or a difference of 9.6% to 17.24% ($87.5M - $94.5M). That's a lot higher than inflation, bud. And looking at his cap hit + that increase, it's a blow that doesn't hurt as much as most people think.
They didn’t. Chicago didn’t at least. Once they gave Kane and Toews their money they had to get rid of their other star players right away, and they haven’t been as good since. The leafs, and other young teams don’t have the same luxury because young players make so much right away in the new nhl.
I love Bob and understand and agree for the most part with what he is saying. But, once Dubas signed Tavares, he had to realize that one of the three in Nylander, Mariner of Mathews had to be sacrificed in the form of a trade. Rational: 1) Given the trend with similar young players and their performance, the contracts for all 3 would be high $ and they wouldn't be able to accomodate them and 2) have enough money left over for to strengthen the back end to compete with the likes of Boston and Tampa. While I can't no for certain but I don't get the sense that Dubas pursued the trade market for Nylander as hard as he could of. Dubas also panicked after the Nylander deal and his lousy start. After 21 games in December and January, Nylander had 1 goal, 5 assists, was a -7 and had a total of only 38 shots on goal (1.8 a game) AWEFUL. On Jan 24th the Leafs had an extended All Star break until Feb 1st. During that time Dubas heard the rumblings given Nylander's lack of production and the tailspin the team was in. (losing 7 of their last 11 games) So how did Dubas respond? He was close to signing Mathews cause his agent clearly saw this as the time to strike for the money (cause waiting till summer would put their max dollars effort at risk) A deal in principle was agreed to but not officially signed until Feb 5, 2019. Why did Dubas wait? Because he had to make a deal to bring a proven defenseman into the team to make up for not trading Nylander for defensive strength earlier. So he traded for Jake Muzzin on January 28, 2019. I like Jake and what he brings, but when you think about the timing, performance of the team, performance of Nylander and the growing frustration in the market, do you really think Dubas showed poise? Now we are at risk with Mariner (he will demand top dollar and we may not be able to afford it, he could be offer sheeted and we may not be able to compete, even if we can afford him - we will lose strength and will be limited in others we can keep or how we can pursue assets where we truly need them) Dubas will go down as just another John Ferguson Jr. or Gord Stellick. (young guys with little experience who were given a role beyond their abilities) Sad
You can stop at putting Lou's name in there for being a tough negotiator, he gave Z a 7 year 5 plus mil deal. Was that a good deal? It's worse then Nylander's.
Only Nylander actual AAV is $7.5M, not the $6.9M cap hit as it will show. The Leafs took advantage of a cap loophole on signing your own player after a contract standoff, which actually benefits them with lower future cap hit compare to actual salary.
Hayes comparison to Kucherov's salary is so unfair, considering the income tax difference in Florida to Ontario... Seriously? It's like different planets. He'll make twice what Matthews will, after taxes, even with a "lower" base salary. That was just a silly remark. Good to see Bob on, bringing a sense of sober reality over the sensationalism that is today's media.
Your delusional if you think elite players will take pay cuts because it's the "almighty" Toronto Maple Leafs. It's an unreal franchise but they've done absolutely nothing in a looooooooooong time.
That's got nothing to do with it. There's no magic boogyman. Some players are going to be willing to take a team friendly deal because there's so much sponsorship and they can pay massive bonuses but it's unrealistic to expect that from every player.
@@johnnys7875 I meen, pastrak is probably the most underpaid player in the league. He should be making like 9 million. But yea, everyone talked about the discount tavares took. Lightning were offering him like 14.5
@Carleton Rutherford Not sure being near top 50 in scoring would be 'middle of the pack'. And yes, in terms of cap hit % that's where were at now in the NHL.
I remember all of the media saying the same thing. How we should trade him to Carolina for Slavin, or LA for Muzzin.... Wait we got Muzzin and still have Nylander? How did that happen?
This Guy Carolina made it clear Dougie Hamilton was available moron. A player that literally checks every box on the leafs wanted list. Good lord some people are dumb. 58.1% Corsica, 6’6” 240 lbs, right handed defence born in Toronto. That’s what we need (and could have had)on our team.
Pastrnak has almost 3x the goals Nylander has in 90 more games, also a +30 higher in +/-. Nobody in their right mind would compare the two. Not to mention Nylander played like he was afraid of contact in the playoffs whereas Pastrnak was blowing guys up forcing turnovers
From an outsider perspective, the main problem in Toronto is down to hype. The media and the fans spent 2 years overhyping their players. “Is Matthews better than McDavid” and generally making Matthews Marner Nylander out to be the very cream of the league. And then you sign Tavares for 11, and all your homegrown players now look at him as a reference. As great a player as he is, that just threw a wrench into everything. Bob is right, a slow build would have been way better. You sign all three in the summer for much less and the leafs would be able to keep a strong supporting cast
Marner won't be taking a discount. Neither Matthew or Nylander took even a slight discount so why should Marner? I had faith in Dubas when the switch was made but it's just been mistake after mistake
Only reason he might is because he grew up near the city and knows what a big deal it is to win here. At least you have to hope he has a big enough heart to appreciate what could happen here if he takes a little less. But I can’t blame him for going after what he thinks he’s worth. Agents just want to earn more dollars so he may swing for the fences. It should be interesting.
@@AggioSound Yeah I'm really hoping the fact that he's a Toronto kid weighs heavily in to his decision but I honestly wouldn't think less of him one bit if he goes for the max value
The only problem with the signing of Nylander at the time is that they didn’t turn around and kick his ass out the door for playing hardball.Its just a business right.Thats all I keep hearing from the player when it comes their precious money.Well GM’s have the same luxury for trading a player.
I said before they should've traded his rights for some defensive help, instead they payed him $7 million and after that season you can't trade him away because the Carolina's and Coyote's the teams that eat those contracts made or nearly made the playoffs and won't take them
The people who say Marner is a byproduct of Tavares are dumb asf. Marner had 49 points in 49 games from Jan 1 2018--> End of playoffs 2018. This is without Tavares, mostly playing with Kadri.
I'm sure Tavares would agree that his stellar year was a product of his time with Marner. Great set up player but Marner seemed off towards the end of the season. I don't know if it's part of maturing as a player, but Marner showed more game face this year. I always enjoyed his enthusiasm out there and sadly I missed his joyous celebrations this year. He always looked too serious.
actually the stats clearly show that tavares carries all of his wingers, including marner. marner's numbers without tavares take a huge hit. tavares produces with anyone. but sure, stick to the mainstream narrative
Chris marner would still be a ppg without him and all great players get to play with other good players. Marner is not okposo or moulson. If you knew anything and watched the games you’d understand that
@Shawnaldo75 - No problem if they bill them selves as "Toronto Sports". The problem is ... they don't! They pretend to be national, when in fact they are little more than a marketing tool for themselves. All owned by the same people!
Laine isn't worth what he will be asking his head isn't in the game enough and has big time slumps every season yeah he can score but 2 months out of the 6 he plays.
@Michael OConnor they spoke about him briefly. I agree with you about his head in the game and how good ge could be if not distracted maybe he'll change but for now meh. Nylander fucked a lot of GM's
@Michael OConnor ... think laine is struggling.. Check out number 3 in that draft.. Was said Laine was reason Pulj went so high. Now I think they both are flopping
@Tearjerker never heard about any of this maybe he did but still don't explain the dips each year. Anyways we could beat this subject to death everyone has ideas about him or defending him I still think he needs to work things out somehow. I don't dislike the guy wish he didn't go 4 months a year not scoring. He has the potential to get 40-50 goals a season.
@Tearjerker yep Ive heard the stories just didnt want to start the debate. Ive heard he buys tvs in every hotel to play the game until early hrs. Kids today in hockey arent all as focused as they were back then even ig they had other things to waste time on its just easier today to loose yourself without even leaving the rooms. Many teams have banned the game already lets see if he bounces back next year
Still some stupid gm will still offer him 9 plus ,they are there own worse enemy look at free agency a complete cluster fuck every summer ,players getting crazy money and term and then they get blamed for the bad contract.
This was the Leafs best year to win the cup, and they had close to 4 million in cap space left, and should of went out and got another defenseman. Now in order to resign a combination of Marner, Kapanen, and Johnsson, they are going to have to trade kadri, Nylander, and Marleau, which all of them will be difficult, based on Kadri's attitude, Nylanders lack or production, and Marleaus NTC, and 6.25 million salary.
The proof on the Nylander pudding will make itself known next year. Do ya think incentive clauses should be built into these contract?. Not just goals but contributions to the team effort.
I’m really nervous about Dubas, he’s too inexperienced. This is the best roster the leafs have had in forever...The timing for him to make rookie mistakes is not now...
Fabio d dubas brought in Tavares and muzzin. Two pieces that heavily benefitted the team. Nylander took long yes, but the potential for that contract to be a steal is sky high. Pittsburgh was able to win with 2 number 1 centres and Mediocre defense... twice. I blame Babcock more than dubas for his deployment. Hainsey on the top pair? Matthews minutes shortened. Babs is on thin ice. And he should be.
Nylander would have called an hour before the deadline no matter what the offer. He should have put 6.5 on the table and called it good. No one sits out.
You can't justify Matthews getting 11.6 second highest salary in the NHL. He's a 70-80 point player and he hit 70 points this year for the first time in his career. Yeah, that's a massive overpayment. If Leon Draisitl gets 8.5 and had 50 goals and 105 points there's no way in hell Matthews isn't an overpayment at an 80 mill cap.
Its based on potential. Draisatl at the time of his contract was projected to be at best a 80-90 point player. Matthews potential according to experts is second only to Mcdavid. Agree or disagree with the assessments but that's what ppl say.
He's been over a point per game for the last 2 seasons so I would say 80-90 point player, but ya u could still argue that it's an overpayment when considering what other players are doing.
@@johanexxxx LMAO Matthews according to "expert's" is projected to be second to McDavid?? I'm sorry, but I haven't heard any "expert's" saying that at all, except of course for delusional leaf fans and or their media. Matthews is far too streaky of a player to even get into the top 5 forwards in the NHL you crazy dude.
All i know is it's been an absolute joy to see the leafs reach for the stars only to be crushed by their ego and hubris . It's just fantastic and I look forward to seeing the "Shanaplan" continue to devolve.
Toronto’s lucky to have a gm as smart as dubas. The muzzin trade was awesome and nylander could very well preform closer to his average annual salary next season
I think you mean as naive as Dubas. Almost every player on the leafs is getting paid more than they're worth. Even Matthews is getting paid 3 million more than he should get.
the problem is in your perception. you, TSN, need to reconsider how you're looking at contracts. You bulk Nylander into a 6.7 or 6.9 or 25.0 mill contract. it's not just a number, it's signing as opposed to base salary.... the difference is in the recapture amount by the club if player fails to live up to obligations, including injury. There's no buying out of signing bonuses. Tavares contract is 92% sign bonus, Matthews 94% sign bonus, McDavid's 86%, Nylander's 54%. Problem: unless theres fine print in contract, an off ice injury could result in Maple Leafs owing player over 50 mil for unrelated injury, Leafs would have to pay sign bonus for balance of contract.
Yes, 'We can and we will', love it. Try being happy for a few days folks, media. We have our best forwards locked up in their prime years, all good moving forward and on to winning some Stanley cups. Dubas is the best GM in the league, a great mind, watch and learn others, a great summer Kyle, a better team, younger, faster...new and better coaches, players...learning, getting better, moving on, moving forward... A great decade ahead. Go leafs go.
Nylander contract is a steal wtf. Yes this was a bad year, but his 2 years before obviously shows he can play extremely well. For the last 2 months of this season, nylander was by far the best player and was almost a point per game. In two years, when the salary cap goes up a couple more million, this contract will look like a steal for a player like him
Leafs brought this cap hell upon themselves, this is why you don't go out and sign an $11 million dollar free agent when you have 3 giant contracts coming up. The Leafs still have to sign Marner, Kapenen and Johnsson and with tight cap space already and Matthew's contract kicking in next season theres no way in hell they can afford all those players
@@unbearablycringe Haaahh, hockey sucks. But that's not the point......NHL players make little in comparison. John Wall starts making 40mil/yr next year. 😂
@@unbearablycringe 🤣 I'm not a kid you blockhead. I always have to laugh at the insecurity of hockey fans. The only thing they can do to run down another sport is say they don't hit each other so it disqualifies it from being good. Basketball is one of the most popular sports in the world for a reason. Hockey isn't, for a reason. Lol
The boys and Bob really think the hard line would be $6.5m? with Lou? The GM that did the Rielly deal? Kadri deal? You guys REALLY think Lou would have gave more money to Nylander LOL Even Kyle said to go that high isn’t fair to Mo and Naz but he had to cave as the media would have been out for blood if Willy sat. ALSO I can tell you if Dubas can’t sign Mitch because he went way to high on Willy then Dubas Failed huge
@@techer123 it doesn't matter what team he did it with it's not like he's been giving out low contract his entire career he is the master of CBA circumventing with high front loaded contracts and find ways out like he did with Ilya, Horton-Clarkson. With the TML he gave Richard Panik 2.8 mil, Matt Martin 2.5 mil, Nikita Zaitsev 4.5 mil, Hainsey for 3 mil, Marleau for 6.25. Hyman 2.25, brown for 2.1, gave Polak 2.2 then 1 obviously over paid the first time. Two years in a row gave a 2nd rounder for a 4th line centre Lou wasn't this penny pincher you're making him out to be man seriously lol
@@techer123 those are literally all over payments lol none of those guys were worth that money. Tavares was one of the leading scorers in the regular season yet people act like he flopped. Panik, Martin and Polak are 1.5 mil MAX yet lou paid them way more and Marleau wasn't worth over 6 at this point in his career. Hyman is overpaid and Conor brown is slightly over paid his role could be done by someone making 700k and Zaitsev is awful and gets paid almost as much as morgana Reilly wtf there's no reason to think lou would have done any different except figure out how to cheat the system and get Marleau off the books. you're just biased about Dubas actually getting a top pair dman and one of the best players in the league in Tavares which fans literally begging for a top line centre and top dman for years now they have both and talented young players yet you guys are acting like the team should be made of 1 mil max AHL players.
McKenzie is spot on for sure. It is the agent pushing the pricing. The Leafs have the cash but sadly lack the experience and from that last game... lack the heart.
Leafs had one year to make use of the enormous amount of talent they had. What do they do? Blow it the worst way possible with another pathetic 1st round exit to the bruins
Leafs Forever He had no problem shutting down Patrick Kane on the Olympic size ice during the WC. He was a plus 35 with the Marlies in their Calder Cup year. He was a plus 2 vs Washington in the playoffs while playing 20 minutes a game. While he gets in his own way handling the puck. He has decent agility and good gap control which is no small thing in today’s NHL.
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Bob is the only analyst I agree with when he talks about these topics. He isn't bias or stupid
Bob is a legend in the biz
I also like Ferraro. Where ever he is. We lost some cable channels before
i like listening to burke!
@@Mikooth - Burkie goes full blowhard too often. He's best in small doses.
Biased*
You pissed on your credibility with your last statement.
I love Bob McKenzie, one of the few that doesn't rely on hot takes and headlines to get views/retweets/etc. Going to miss him when he retires.
Wish McKenzie could teach Tim & Sid how to bring some content into their segments at SN.
Guess you can't teach quality anyway...
J Z Tim and Sid are ego driving off their own show. They feed off each other
J Z Completely different types of shows and segments. Can’t compare.
Yeah but let’s be real. Tim and Sid is more about comedy now
Tim and Sid have one of the most entertaining sports shows on Canadian television.
You're just salty cause they're the only show that didn't suck up to the leafs even though they're leafs fans. Tim and sid aren't afraid to go on a rant about any team.
These guys do a good job in terms of not interrupting each other. Compare it to CNN or something and it's night and day.
its called being canadian
That’s because Jeff O’Neil is an idiot and doesn’t have anything intelligent to say!!!!!
Mckenzie shut them up lol
CNN? Gross.
Who in the he double hockey sticks watches CNN
Nylander was going to get paid $6.5 million to $7.0 million by someone. That is the nature of contracts for young players nowadays, You pay for potential. So the problem isn't dollar amount. The real problem is that Toronto shouldn't be have a $7.0 million dollar forward as their 4th highest-paid forward and as a 2nd-line winger. Because when you already have an $11 million forward (Tavares), another $11 million forward (Matthews), and probably a $10 million forward (Marner), then having another $7 million forward in Nylander results in you being very top-heavy up-front and there isn't balance between salary structure amongst forwards and defensemen. Paying Nylander $7 million as your 4th best forward and 2nd-line winger is why you are forced to play 38-year-old Ron Hainsey on your top defense pairing, getting 20+ minutes per night of ice-time. Does that seem like what a Stanley Cup contender should be doing when it comes to structuring their team? This isn't Playstation 4 EA Sports NHL 19, where you can just load up on expensive forwards and win. Real hockey doesn't work that way, unless you are the 1980's Oilers or 1990's Penguins and have guys like Gretzky and Lemieux driving the bus. Now, people will say "You have to pay Nylander $7.0 million so Matthews has talented players to play with". That is kind of wrong. The reason Matthews is getting paid $11 million is because there is an expectation that he can make players around him better. He is expected to turn average players into top producers when he is getting paid $11 million, just like how Sidney Crosby turned Kunitz and Hornqvist into credible offensive threats. So the whole argument of "You must pay Nylander $7.0 million so Matthews has support" is bogus.
Yep. Spot on. Not the way it used to be. When guys got the big contracts in their late 20s. For instance I’m a Sabres fan. We gave eichel 10 million. Wasn’t that he has done a lot but you’re paying for what he can and probably will do.
Couldn't agree more, I like the way Dubas has been handling things but the Nylander signing was a bonehead move. We need defense and depth not an overpaid forward that isn't even our top 3.
agree 100%..any rational mind would've traded nylander after the tavares signing for a much needed top defense man. given their situation, the nylander signing was a huge blunder on dubas' part
You make a super valid point. But I ask you this, keeping in mind I'm biased because I'm a Bruins fan. Is tavares truly worth 11 when compared to other players? Is Matthew's? I understand u pay big to lock down productive players but even in a rising salary cap world it would be more realistic to pay marner Matthew's and Tavares around 9 to 10 million each. That frees up almost 5 mill in cap allowing you to get that dman at 4 mill or justify another 7 million dollar player. I hate comparing to the Bruins but the Bruins have that first line for ballpark 18 mill. And tavares alone is 11. These slight overpays catch up because the cap doesn't rise to cover all of them
@@reecewilliams155 it's all about timing man. if the bruins are to renegotiate the first line's contracts now, there's no way you get all three at 18 million.
Despite what Bob is saying...if players aren't willing to to take a discount for the sake of the team...it tells you something about their attitude. There is no way Matthews should be making more than Tavares unless it was for 8 years...People complain about Marner, but its hard to argue that he doesn't deserve it based on his production.
Buttmannopfer19 Matthews Has has back to back 40 and 37 goal seasons in his first year. He deserves that money
Manifested Logic but he also has a glass shoulder.
Manifested Logic they were paying for future 50 plus yrs .managment
Nylander deal is fine. Problem was the timeline. For those asking for a Nylander trade - stop. This is the worst time to trade him. The guy is a solid player and with a full off season and training camp he should be up near point per game next year. If you want to trade him after a decent season okay. At least we would get something of value in return. Matthews deal was tough - I don't like that figure for 0 UFA years, but what are you gonna do? The media hypes him up so much that he becomes the 2nd best player in the league and we have to pay him before he even does anything. Tavares - 7 @11. This guy could have got 14 in SJ. So yes it is a discount. Still a hefty tag, but he has another 4-5 elite years in him. I like Tavares on this team - brings some much needed maturity. Marner - hoping to convince him to take what? 10? ceiling is Matthews deal, floor is probably 10. Doesn't really matter that much. Wish we signed him last year when we could have gotten 8 @ 8. All of the above is actually fine - these are our stars and they are being paid roughly what they need to get paid. The problem contracts are - #1 - Marleau @6.25. (Lou Lamoriello) He was brought over for his leadership and mentoring ability - great. But he was playing on the 3rd line in SJ before he left. He actually hurts the team by being on the ice. He was a great player, and had a great career, but it's time to hang them up. #2 - Zaitsev @ 4.5 (Lou Lamoriello). This guy is average offensively and average defensively. Lots of mistakes. Not a pushover, but not overly tough. IMO could be replaced by Dermott. We can't afford to give average players above average contracts. #3 - Kessel @1.2. (Lou Lamoriello) Yes. That's right. We are still paying Phil 1.2 million. Can't we dump this and a pick to a team struggling to reach the cap floor? Eliminating 1.2 would be like paying tavares 9.8 or Nylander 5.8. This would help so much. I hope Dubas has a plan to get rid of these gifts from Lou.
You are spot on about the Nylander stuff. Buy low, sell high people...
Well Said. 100% Correct. Especially the Marleau part. That's obvious. Marleau should have only been here on a 2-Year deal, not 3.
I don't agree with what some of Don Cherry says but when Zaitsev signed that deal he commented that it was too high. Lou said at the time that he was a bargain for what he would develop into. But wouldn't his replacement by Calle Rosen and not Dermott seeing as how Dermott is already a mainstay whereas Rosen will surely be in the Top 6 Pairing. Or are you taking into account if they shoot RH or LH ?
Lmao did you really just say Matthews is the 2nd Best player in the league? Bahahahaha that's laughable maybe top 20
@@mblocksoldier
NO, Robin Hood. He did not write that. He wrote that the MEDIA hypes him up like he's the second best player in the league.
Lolol nylander is a 2nd line player who's gonna get 50 pts tops per year, playing behind marner, Matthews, tavares. Has zero intangles who gets wiped at the playoffs. Leafs are getting fucked at the cap and they are paying 7 mil for this useless POS. Leafs fans - wouldn't it be nice if u had 7 mil to spend on a defenseman instead? Hahahhaha. Yea that's what I thought
We need more Bob Mackenzie in Toronto media and less.....EVERYONE ELSE in Toronto media.
You could argue the second most important player on the Leafs is Rielly, and he’s owed $15mil over the next 3 seasons. That’s a bargain!
I agree but Rielly is just as effective as his defensive partner is able to help him out defensively. Rielly is good defensively but it was obvious he has problems with bigger guys and needs a strong/solid partner.
He'll want double his salary now - if he has any intelligence, he'll demand that much
Great team contract hope he only wants to stay
Too bad hes the 2nd most important player cuz there are 4 other guys that are eating up half the cap
lmao the other talk dudes got uncomfortable AF at 2:04 when he said "you guys"
????
Their expressions literally didn't change
Free Agency....A Total Joke...Greed And nothing more...
@@roberttaylo6314 you'd rather the ownership and shareholders get more than the players?
Good call Bob McKenzie. Very well explained.
Nylander = Overpaid by 500k by Dubas
Matthews = Overpaid by 500k by Dubas
Marleau = 6.3 million 4th liner via Lamoriello.
Zaitsev = 4.5 million 3rd pairing D via Lamoriello.
Whose mistakes will hurt the Leafs more next year?
Don't forget Dubas signing Tavares for $11M solely to win over the fans, guy is a spineless joke of a GM.
Yeah no. Matthews is a MASSIVE overpayment. At 11.6 mill he's the second highest paid player in the league, and he had 70 points for the first time in his career and was invisible (again) for game 7. Leon Draisitl gets 8.5 for the next 6 years and he just had 50 goals and 105 points as a 22 year old. Sorry but Matthews should be at 7.5-8 mill very most and Taveras at 9.
Drew Jenkins I think lamoriello’s mistakes will fuck the leafs over more. At least you could move nylander. Nobody is going to want Marleau or zaitsev
Scott Ryan he was the best leaf this season aside from andersen
matthews was the best forward for toronto in the playoffs. matthews and tavares could have gone to many teams for more than what they signed for in toronto. you don't know much about hockey, the nhl, economics, or finance in general. stick to playing house league and watching pavel barber videos.
Bobs the goat... the rest of this panel should just be taking notes... but buddy in the purple tie is too busy on his cell ordering some skip the dishes...
I'm convinced if Lou was still here (and I wish he was) he would have given Nylander a hard deadline, something like November 1, or "you sit". In hind sight, it was easy to see that Nylander wanted to play and that's why he reached out to Dubas at the last minute, and Dubas caved.
We also saw that the Leafs were never the same after Nylander joined the fold. They were playing so well up to the point when they traded Leivo. It also appeared like Marner checked up at the end of the season, to avoid injury before getting into his pay day negotiation.
Bob is a guy that knows his stuff doesn’t have to try to be funny or do gimmicks.
The bigger the contract the more an agent makes. I can't see him agreeing with Marner if he wants to take a discount
And Ferris is absolutely leaking content to the media to get them talking about how $11M is reasonable for a winger who played with Tavares all year. Marner is great, but $9M great.
Claiming Lou or other gm's could have gotten the same deal with willie in september is a stretch. If that deal was there in september it probably would have happened, but willie's camp was still demanding more than 7 before the season started.
With the way contracts are trending the willie deal could be really good.
Nylander's amount as Bob says isn't a huge issue, its the fact that he signed 4 big contracts when realistically there was only capacity to sign 3 players. It was tough that he was the 2nd in the 4 signings (Tavares July 2018, Nylander Dec 2018, Mathews Jan 2019, Marner Sept 2019) The issue on Nylander was he shouldn't of signed him. He had more value to trade after a) back to back 60 point seasons and b) not having a signed contract with $ and term allowing the team that acquires him to negotiate then he does now to trade. Plus I would argue that had Dubas traded him, he would of had more leverage negotiating cap friendly deals with Mathews and Marner. It also would have freed up the $$ to sign character and grit complimentary pieces up front and in the back end and in net. That is the issue
Leafs should’ve gotten a RHD in July.
Ive always like Bob McKenzie his point of view always makes sense to me... hopefully willy bounces back in October. Please sign marner tho love that kid.
Great title... Literally the first question asked contradicts the title.
Actually, it is $7.5 (45m x 6 years). The cap hit is lower starting this year because it was higher in 2018-19.
Bob is bang on about how the city talks about the Nylander deal.
It’s pretty simple really. If you don’t pay the top players then they’ll go somewhere else. I have no problem with the Nylander deal. If he bounces back next year it will be a good contract. It’s not complicated. If you want the talent you have to pay and make it work within the cap.
It's confirmation bias. A lot of the people saying the Nylander deal is terrible are the same people who were saying to trade him for a shut-down defenceman going all the way back to July 1st when the Leafs signed Tavares. And now they still want to trade him for a top 4 d-man, even though they claim he sucks and is way over-payed.
You mean not signing Tavares makes it easier to sign your home grown guys? Gasp! It like I was saying that back on July 1st..oh wait I was. I mean Bob's right, it would be a slower build but you keep the band together. It's easy for me saying it as a fan and not a GM of a team, especially in a market like TO and especially when they haven't won in forever, but it was/is the truth.
With the upcoming negotiations with Marner, I'm sure Daddy Nylander has told Mini Nylander not to buy that condo downtown quite yet.
Agreed about Tavares. As well as he played, and I know people think he could have got more elsewhere, the Leafs could not, and cannot afford Tavares, Nylander, Mathews, and Marner.
Interesting to see this 4 years later
Should have TRADED Nylander...now the precedent that Dubas will cave in negotiations. Oh and don't promise any player that they won't be traded.
For a dman
"I guess we'll see." Absolutely right.
I said all along that the deal that would really handcuff the Leafs would be the Marleau signing. They should never have signed Marleau, and I have great respect for the player and the man. From a business standpoint and a developmental standpoint, signing Marleau for three years and 6 million per year - taking away important ice time from a young player to develop and then not being able to make a deadline deal for another defenceman prior to the playoffs this year sunk the Leafs. They rolled the dice on Marleau, wrongly believing he might get them a cup. It didn't seem like it might be a cap problem at the time. Then they got really lucky signing Tavares. Next year was going to be their year regardless, if Lamoriello had stayed the course. Now, even that scenario is in jeopardy! The Leafs may now be destined to be a good team for quite some time, just not a championship team. Thanks Lou!
They were playing great before Nylander returned. Had great chemistry and enthusiasm. It wouldn’t have hurt the team if Nylander sat out the year or was traded and Dubas would have gained a hell of a lot of respect. The Marner deal is now a big problem for the team. And even trading Nylander now won’t help much because they would lose face and likely have to eat some of his contract while still paying Kessel and Horton.
BOB is the new NORM Cheers
This IS NOT hindsight,I never wanted Nylander signed for that kind of money because it means losing roster players and he just was not worth it.
Leafs are 49-0 when leading after the third period! Best team ever.
Lmao...
Leafs are 0-54 in cup wins when the league has more than 6 teams.
Phase 1: Overpay. Phase 2: ? Phase 3 Lose to Boston every year.
Stage 3 is Profit, everybody knows that
Edmonton is a team that heavily overpaid for lucic and gave away their hall and eberle. And then their d core proceeds to get decimated by injuries.
@@vlun121 What's your point?
Gotta trust the process
lol you cant possibly be saying that he overpaid matthews
I honestly would've respected Dubas a lot more if he would've not signed Nylander but let him sit out. The team was better without him if you look at the stats this year...
Concars1234: Marleau has a no trade clause they can't touch him
All of the CORE FOUR SUCK IN THE PLAYOFFS EVERY STICKING YEAR. TRADE ALL 4.
He makes excellent points and pretty much sums up what's wrong with how Dubas runs his team. Signing Tavares was one of the most greedy and stupid things somebody could possibly do when their roster was already stacked.
Do they not realize the income tax is higher in Canada? Kucherov can get paid slightly more at a lower cap hit in Tampa than in Toronto.
The Canadian teams put that in contract to deal with taxes
At least for the Leafs, Nylander's cap hit per Spotrac from 2019-20 until 2023-24 is $6.962M and the Salary Cap is going to grow to a degree between now and then for three reasons.
- First, the NHL is actually doing a good job year-over-year at generating revenue. Revenue from 2017-18 was up 63.3% from 2007-08 per Statista.
- Second, Seattle's NHL team is joining the league in 2021-22 which should increase HRR.
- Third, the television deal in the United States is up in 2012-22 with NBC Sports. In the current TV deal, the NHL receives $200M a year from NBC Sports, and that's likely to grow to around $220M-$250M from whatever broadcast partner(s) the National Hockey League works with. Which does affect HRR, and affects the Salary Cap.
If Nylander had a cap hit of $6.962M this season instead of $10.2M, that would rank for 30th among all forwards in the NHL in front of Ryan Kesler ($6.875M) and behind Evander Kane and James van Riemsdyk ($7M). The situation with Nylander last season was bad, but it could've been a lot worse, and he may not be as overpaid as people think.
@Pistol Pete The cap could be up $8-15 million by 2021-22, or a difference of 9.6% to 17.24% ($87.5M - $94.5M). That's a lot higher than inflation, bud. And looking at his cap hit + that increase, it's a blow that doesn't hurt as much as most people think.
How did Chicago do it and pitspurgh?????
Toronto has pretty much did what Lebron did for the NBA, they let the stars dictate their own destiny
They didn’t. Chicago didn’t at least. Once they gave Kane and Toews their money they had to get rid of their other star players right away, and they haven’t been as good since. The leafs, and other young teams don’t have the same luxury because young players make so much right away in the new nhl.
Liam Rasmussen what you talking about? Chicago won 3 cups with amazing starr players and paid them all. Just recently they got rid of others.
the best thing they can do is get rid of nylander any way possible.
I'm older than him lol, that being said I like him, I'm not a Leafs fan either but I follow every team.
What's this woodshed analogy?
Used to be your dad would take to the woodshed and whip you when you screwed up😱
@@MW-yh9tm I thought it was a rape analogy, and found it inappropriate.
You would find it inappropriate, ya snowflake
I love Bob and understand and agree for the most part with what he is saying. But, once Dubas signed Tavares, he had to realize that one of the three in Nylander, Mariner of Mathews had to be sacrificed in the form of a trade. Rational: 1) Given the trend with similar young players and their performance, the contracts for all 3 would be high $ and they wouldn't be able to accomodate them and 2) have enough money left over for to strengthen the back end to compete with the likes of Boston and Tampa. While I can't no for certain but I don't get the sense that Dubas pursued the trade market for Nylander as hard as he could of. Dubas also panicked after the Nylander deal and his lousy start. After 21 games in December and January, Nylander had 1 goal, 5 assists, was a -7 and had a total of only 38 shots on goal (1.8 a game) AWEFUL. On Jan 24th the Leafs had an extended All Star break until Feb 1st. During that time Dubas heard the rumblings given Nylander's lack of production and the tailspin the team was in. (losing 7 of their last 11 games) So how did Dubas respond? He was close to signing Mathews cause his agent clearly saw this as the time to strike for the money (cause waiting till summer would put their max dollars effort at risk) A deal in principle was agreed to but not officially signed until Feb 5, 2019. Why did Dubas wait? Because he had to make a deal to bring a proven defenseman into the team to make up for not trading Nylander for defensive strength earlier. So he traded for Jake Muzzin on January 28, 2019. I like Jake and what he brings, but when you think about the timing, performance of the team, performance of Nylander and the growing frustration in the market, do you really think Dubas showed poise? Now we are at risk with Mariner (he will demand top dollar and we may not be able to afford it, he could be offer sheeted and we may not be able to compete, even if we can afford him - we will lose strength and will be limited in others we can keep or how we can pursue assets where we truly need them) Dubas will go down as just another John Ferguson Jr. or Gord Stellick. (young guys with little experience who were given a role beyond their abilities) Sad
You can stop at putting Lou's name in there for being a tough negotiator, he gave Z a 7 year 5 plus mil deal. Was that a good deal? It's worse then Nylander's.
John Rumble Zaitsev makes 4.5M.
not sure anyone knows the sport from an insider's perspective like Bob.
Only Nylander actual AAV is $7.5M, not the $6.9M cap hit as it will show. The Leafs took advantage of a cap loophole on signing your own player after a contract standoff, which actually benefits them with lower future cap hit compare to actual salary.
Cap needs to go up. Too many USA teams dragging us down. Meanwhile Leafs are propping up $$ for them. 💩
I know it's fucking bs
At least we have two things in the near future to look forward to in terms of cap rising. New Seattle franchise & the revenue from gambling
The point you're missing is Nylander isn't worth 2 million
Hayes comparison to Kucherov's salary is so unfair, considering the income tax difference in Florida to Ontario... Seriously? It's like different planets. He'll make twice what Matthews will, after taxes, even with a "lower" base salary. That was just a silly remark. Good to see Bob on, bringing a sense of sober reality over the sensationalism that is today's media.
You wanna talk about contracts joe Sakic got one of the best deals done with mack.
Your delusional if you think elite players will take pay cuts because it's the "almighty" Toronto Maple Leafs. It's an unreal franchise but they've done absolutely nothing in a looooooooooong time.
Yea, because tavares didnt take a home town discount.... marner will be the same. They grew up in Toronto and dreamed of playing for them
That's got nothing to do with it. There's no magic boogyman. Some players are going to be willing to take a team friendly deal because there's so much sponsorship and they can pay massive bonuses but it's unrealistic to expect that from every player.
@@mr.montana2654 Tavares at 11m is a discount? I can have 2 Pastrnak for the same price as 1 Tavares 😂
@@johnnys7875 I meen, pastrak is probably the most underpaid player in the league. He should be making like 9 million. But yea, everyone talked about the discount tavares took. Lightning were offering him like 14.5
Sponsorship dollars are massive playing for the Leafs. That has to be a factor in the decision or the player is an idiot.
Nylander will be a very good player for years to come...think long on these deals...all will be fine...go leafs go
The reality is Nylander is one bounce back season (70+ pts) away from his contract being a steal.
He will bounce back next year, and it will be a steal
@@pahul79 I agree.
@Carleton Rutherford Not sure being near top 50 in scoring would be 'middle of the pack'. And yes, in terms of cap hit % that's where were at now in the NHL.
they didn't have to sign Tavares. - it's a tough situation no doubt but don't cry about not being able to sign your draftees.
Tavares is a selfish cherry picker. That is why the Islanders improved big when he left !
I think Dubas had his hand tied in regard to Tavares, who wrapped himself up in Leafs merch and presented himself at MLSE's doorstep.
The day that the NHL season started and Nylander wasn't dressed to play for the Leafs, Dubas should've traded him for a defenseman.
He had 122 pts in 160 games the last two seasons prior to this year idiot that's worth every dollar. If he had a 75+ Pt season next year it's worth it
I remember all of the media saying the same thing. How we should trade him to Carolina for Slavin, or LA for Muzzin.... Wait we got Muzzin and still have Nylander? How did that happen?
@@2point5falbosky we traded a first so bet the future for the more present. We could use more defensive dmen in the first round
This Guy Carolina made it clear Dougie Hamilton was available moron. A player that literally checks every box on the leafs wanted list. Good lord some people are dumb. 58.1% Corsica, 6’6” 240 lbs, right handed defence born in Toronto. That’s what we need (and could have had)on our team.
"The leafs wanted to get Nylander for the same as Pastrnak is getting"....looool yeah pretty similar players
Joel Heany...Great point! Nylander has no balls, but with that money he may trying buying some.Good luck wit'dat!
prove yourself first before you dictate how much you want
You just don't get it, d'ya St. Chase?
St. Chase, you can enjoy the stats your powder boy produces all yoou want.
Pastrnak has almost 3x the goals Nylander has in 90 more games, also a +30 higher in +/-. Nobody in their right mind would compare the two. Not to mention Nylander played like he was afraid of contact in the playoffs whereas Pastrnak was blowing guys up forcing turnovers
3:22
Bitch that phrase don't make no sense why can't fruit be compared~lil dicky~
From an outsider perspective, the main problem in Toronto is down to hype. The media and the fans spent 2 years overhyping their players. “Is Matthews better than McDavid” and generally making Matthews Marner Nylander out to be the very cream of the league. And then you sign Tavares for 11, and all your homegrown players now look at him as a reference. As great a player as he is, that just threw a wrench into everything. Bob is right, a slow build would have been way better. You sign all three in the summer for much less and the leafs would be able to keep a strong supporting cast
Bob's not saying a slow build would have been better. It just would have made it easier to sign players moving forward.
@@willyupshaw which means it would have been better.
@@dbo514 Not necessarily, because then they wouldn't have Tavares.
Marner won't be taking a discount. Neither Matthew or Nylander took even a slight discount so why should Marner? I had faith in Dubas when the switch was made but it's just been mistake after mistake
Only reason he might is because he grew up near the city and knows what a big deal it is to win here. At least you have to hope he has a big enough heart to appreciate what could happen here if he takes a little less.
But I can’t blame him for going after what he thinks he’s worth. Agents just want to earn more dollars so he may swing for the fences. It should be interesting.
@@AggioSound Yeah I'm really hoping the fact that he's a Toronto kid weighs heavily in to his decision but I honestly wouldn't think less of him one bit if he goes for the max value
The only problem with the signing of Nylander at the time is that they didn’t turn around and kick his ass out the door for playing hardball.Its just a business right.Thats all I keep hearing from the player when it comes their precious money.Well GM’s have the same luxury for trading a player.
Jeez. It all of bostons top players are making less than 8 million. Yet somehow our gonna be over budget leafs can't seem to beat them
Lou would have made Nylander sit out the year. But Lou made mistakes too - Marleau and Zaitzev were over paid period!
I said before they should've traded his rights for some defensive help, instead they payed him $7 million and after that season you can't trade him away because the Carolina's and Coyote's the teams that eat those contracts made or nearly made the playoffs and won't take them
The people who say Marner is a byproduct of Tavares are dumb asf. Marner had 49 points in 49 games from Jan 1 2018--> End of playoffs 2018. This is without Tavares, mostly playing with Kadri.
Kadri is hardly a slouch. Not on the same level of Tavares, but certainly not a fourth liner.
I'm sure Tavares would agree that his stellar year was a product of his time with Marner. Great set up player but Marner seemed off towards the end of the season. I don't know if it's part of maturing as a player, but Marner showed more game face this year. I always enjoyed his enthusiasm out there and sadly I missed his joyous celebrations this year. He always looked too serious.
He played mostly with Bozak and JVR
actually the stats clearly show that tavares carries all of his wingers, including marner. marner's numbers without tavares take a huge hit. tavares produces with anyone. but sure, stick to the mainstream narrative
Chris marner would still be a ppg without him and all great players get to play with other good players. Marner is not okposo or moulson. If you knew anything and watched the games you’d understand that
Didn't know the Leafs were the only NHL team
LMAO
@Shawnaldo75 - No problem if they bill them selves as "Toronto Sports". The problem is ... they don't! They pretend to be national, when in fact they are little more than a marketing tool for themselves. All owned by the same people!
Laine isn't worth what he will be asking his head isn't in the game enough and has big time slumps every season yeah he can score but 2 months out of the 6 he plays.
@Michael OConnor they spoke about him briefly. I agree with you about his head in the game and how good ge could be if not distracted maybe he'll change but for now meh. Nylander fucked a lot of GM's
@Michael OConnor ... think laine is struggling..
Check out number 3 in that draft.. Was said Laine was reason Pulj went so high.
Now I think they both are flopping
@Tearjerker never heard about any of this maybe he did but still don't explain the dips each year. Anyways we could beat this subject to death everyone has ideas about him or defending him I still think he needs to work things out somehow. I don't dislike the guy wish he didn't go 4 months a year not scoring. He has the potential to get 40-50 goals a season.
@Tearjerker yep Ive heard the stories just didnt want to start the debate. Ive heard he buys tvs in every hotel to play the game until early hrs. Kids today in hockey arent all as focused as they were back then even ig they had other things to waste time on its just easier today to loose yourself without even leaving the rooms. Many teams have banned the game already lets see if he bounces back next year
Still some stupid gm will still offer him 9 plus ,they are there own worse enemy look at free agency a complete cluster fuck every summer ,players getting crazy money and term and then they get blamed for the bad contract.
This was the Leafs best year to win the cup, and they had close to 4 million in cap space left, and should of went out and got another defenseman. Now in order to resign a combination of Marner, Kapanen, and Johnsson, they are going to have to trade kadri, Nylander, and Marleau, which all of them will be difficult, based on Kadri's attitude, Nylanders lack or production, and Marleaus NTC, and 6.25 million salary.
Kyle Dubas’s theory on contract negotiation. Here’s a carte blanche (blank cheque), just fill
in the amount!
The proof on the Nylander pudding will make itself known next year. Do ya think incentive clauses should be built into these contract?. Not just goals but contributions to the team effort.
I’m really nervous about Dubas, he’s too inexperienced. This is the best roster the leafs have had in forever...The timing for him to make rookie mistakes is not now...
Chirpzie he’s doing a fine job. Give him time. Has to correct some of Lou’s old mistakes like Marleau and zaitzev. Then it’ll be fine
Agreed dubas is a msle pet project dont trust him. They should have kept lamereu
Fabio d dubas brought in Tavares and muzzin. Two pieces that heavily benefitted the team. Nylander took long yes, but the potential for that contract to be a steal is sky high. Pittsburgh was able to win with 2 number 1 centres and Mediocre defense... twice. I blame Babcock more than dubas for his deployment. Hainsey on the top pair? Matthews minutes shortened. Babs is on thin ice. And he should be.
Mackenzie is so much smarter than o Neil.
Nylander would have called an hour before the deadline no matter what the offer. He should have put 6.5 on the table and called it good. No one sits out.
I love him, but marleau has contract they can spare if needed
Zaits should be moved. Maybe Connor Brown
No move and no one outside of San Jose going for a nostalgia trip is going to want him - unless you retain like half his salary.
Translation: You can't win in Toronto no matter what you do.
You can't justify Matthews getting 11.6 second highest salary in the NHL. He's a 70-80 point player and he hit 70 points this year for the first time in his career. Yeah, that's a massive overpayment. If Leon Draisitl gets 8.5 and had 50 goals and 105 points there's no way in hell Matthews isn't an overpayment at an 80 mill cap.
Its based on potential. Draisatl at the time of his contract was projected to be at best a 80-90 point player. Matthews potential according to experts is second only to Mcdavid. Agree or disagree with the assessments but that's what ppl say.
How many games did he play? He's 21 and already has three point per game seasons... Also goal scorers get paid....
He's been over a point per game for the last 2 seasons so I would say 80-90 point player, but ya u could still argue that it's an overpayment when considering what other players are doing.
@@johanexxxx LMAO Matthews according to "expert's" is projected to be second to McDavid??
I'm sorry, but I haven't heard any "expert's" saying that at all, except of course for delusional leaf fans and or their media.
Matthews is far too streaky of a player to even get into the top 5 forwards in the NHL you crazy dude.
Also hockey isn't all about points. Driesitel is a winger not a centre. There's an whole other aspect of the game that matters.
Kucherov resigned in Tampa because their team is good and there is no state tax so he is making big money
First line Brown-Mcdavid-kappy
When Toronto getting McDavid?? Can't wait!
Keep dreaming. McDavid has a better chance of a cup in Edmonton haha
Mario 93 stupid 😂😂
Hellblazer you mean the team that entertains 30 of the 31 fan bases is going to pull it’s head out of it’s ass? When? More importantly how?
All i know is it's been an absolute joy to see the leafs reach for the stars only to be crushed by their ego and hubris . It's just fantastic and I look forward to seeing the "Shanaplan" continue to devolve.
9.5 million in Tampa is the same as $11 million in Toronto, Tampa doesn’t have income tax
Toronto’s lucky to have a gm as smart as dubas. The muzzin trade was awesome and nylander could very well preform closer to his average annual salary next season
I think you mean as naive as Dubas. Almost every player on the leafs is getting paid more than they're worth. Even Matthews is getting paid 3 million more than he should get.
R ,T if the leafs let any of those guys walk you’d be crying about how bad dubas was. Consider his perspective a bit
@@fakename7906 Even then, he doesn't know how to drive a hard bargain and the agents know that.
the problem is in your perception. you, TSN, need to reconsider how you're looking at contracts. You bulk Nylander into a 6.7 or 6.9 or 25.0 mill contract. it's not just a number, it's signing as opposed to base salary.... the difference is in the recapture amount by the club if player fails to live up to obligations, including injury. There's no buying out of signing bonuses. Tavares contract is 92% sign bonus, Matthews 94% sign bonus, McDavid's 86%, Nylander's 54%. Problem: unless theres fine print in contract, an off ice injury could result in Maple Leafs owing player over 50 mil for unrelated injury, Leafs would have to pay sign bonus for balance of contract.
signing bonus
Not the only team
Yes, 'We can and we will', love it. Try being happy for a few days folks, media. We have our best forwards locked up in their prime years, all good moving forward and on to winning some Stanley cups. Dubas is the best GM in the league, a great mind, watch and learn others, a great summer Kyle, a better team, younger, faster...new and better coaches, players...learning, getting better, moving on, moving forward... A great decade ahead. Go leafs go.
Is that seth MacFarlane? 😂
This dudes even more gay tho
Benny B this 2019 can’t call someone gay. I’d delete that might ruin your entire life
@@austonsplatpoo1705 not sorry if facts hurt someone's feelings
Benny B lol I was being a smart ass
@@austonsplatpoo1705 hahahaha shit sorry dude hahaha
Looking back, Jets were geniuses to not sign Laine and Trouba.
Marner will get same deal as Mathews as he should
No. The real question is how well does Dubas judge hockey talent? Is Nylander a 7million dollar a year player?
Nylander contract is a steal wtf. Yes this was a bad year, but his 2 years before obviously shows he can play extremely well. For the last 2 months of this season, nylander was by far the best player and was almost a point per game. In two years, when the salary cap goes up a couple more million, this contract will look like a steal for a player like him
People are short sighted man its crazy. He had like 120 pts in 160 games at 22 that's worth the investment
Nylander is a 5M player after last year.
Spencer Gull wHo THe FoOk Iz dAt guY?
Leafs brought this cap hell upon themselves, this is why you don't go out and sign an $11 million dollar free agent when you have 3 giant contracts coming up. The Leafs still have to sign Marner, Kapenen and Johnsson and with tight cap space already and Matthew's contract kicking in next season theres no way in hell they can afford all those players
Boy, NHL players don't get paid much, especially compared to MLB, NBA.
Shit I'll take 7mil a year skating on ice and slapping a puck around.
Paul Garcia It’s way more dangerous to play Hockey than Soft sports like Basketball Lol
@@unbearablycringe Haaahh, hockey sucks. But that's not the point......NHL players make little in comparison. John Wall starts making 40mil/yr next year. 😂
Jeff Brisson Basketball is a garbage sport get outta here you soft kid
@@unbearablycringe 🤣 I'm not a kid you blockhead. I always have to laugh at the insecurity of hockey fans. The only thing they can do to run down another sport is say they don't hit each other so it disqualifies it from being good. Basketball is one of the most popular sports in the world for a reason. Hockey isn't, for a reason. Lol
Why do they even need Nylander?
The boys and Bob really think the hard line would be $6.5m? with Lou? The GM that did the Rielly deal? Kadri deal? You guys REALLY think Lou would have gave more money to Nylander LOL Even Kyle said to go that high isn’t fair to Mo and Naz but he had to cave as the media would have been out for blood if Willy sat. ALSO I can tell you if Dubas can’t sign Mitch because he went way to high on Willy then Dubas Failed huge
Lou gave out some of the biggest contracts in nhl history wtf
This Guy not here in Toronto and that’s what is being discussed
@@techer123 it doesn't matter what team he did it with it's not like he's been giving out low contract his entire career he is the master of CBA circumventing with high front loaded contracts and find ways out like he did with Ilya, Horton-Clarkson.
With the TML he gave Richard Panik 2.8 mil, Matt Martin 2.5 mil, Nikita Zaitsev 4.5 mil, Hainsey for 3 mil, Marleau for 6.25. Hyman 2.25, brown for 2.1, gave Polak 2.2 then 1 obviously over paid the first time. Two years in a row gave a 2nd rounder for a 4th line centre
Lou wasn't this penny pincher you're making him out to be man seriously lol
This Guy all you posted is fair deals compared to the overpayment Look I don’t care as long as Dubas fixes his mistake
@@techer123 those are literally all over payments lol none of those guys were worth that money. Tavares was one of the leading scorers in the regular season yet people act like he flopped. Panik, Martin and Polak are 1.5 mil MAX yet lou paid them way more and Marleau wasn't worth over 6 at this point in his career. Hyman is overpaid and Conor brown is slightly over paid his role could be done by someone making 700k and Zaitsev is awful and gets paid almost as much as morgana Reilly wtf there's no reason to think lou would have done any different except figure out how to cheat the system and get Marleau off the books.
you're just biased about Dubas actually getting a top pair dman and one of the best players in the league in Tavares which fans literally begging for a top line centre and top dman for years now they have both and talented young players yet you guys are acting like the team should be made of 1 mil max AHL players.
is tsn the maple leaf team channel now
Kody Banks-Wichmann TSN no, but 1050 Toronto are......
McKenzie is spot on for sure. It is the agent pushing the pricing. The Leafs have the cash but sadly lack the experience and from that last game... lack the heart.
The agents like to call Dubas "Santa Claus".
Leafs had one year to make use of the enormous amount of talent they had. What do they do? Blow it the worst way possible with another pathetic 1st round exit to the bruins
Dubas signed Marincin for another year ffs .... there’s how I perceive Dubas ...
Leafs Forever an AHL D who can play NHL minutes
Gordon Graham no - ECHL player at best - who shouldn’t even be considered NHL caliber !
Leafs Forever He had no problem shutting down Patrick Kane on the Olympic size ice during the WC. He was a plus 35 with the Marlies in their Calder Cup year. He was a plus 2 vs Washington in the playoffs while playing 20 minutes a game. While he gets in his own way handling the puck. He has decent agility and good gap control which is no small thing in today’s NHL.