Hazbin Hotel is Kinda...(Redesign//Rant)
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- Опубликовано: 12 фев 2024
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The "Off" vibes is: The show wants to be adult, but it isn't mature. It looks, sounds and vibes like a teenager trying to sound adult.
Bro THIS
Right! My boyfriend deadass thought it was The Owl House, thats how bad it is.
Well, let me reword, it could be better. Especially Lucifer, definitely not what I was expecting since he is literally LUCIFER, yk? The actual show Lucifer portrayed him better.
When the creator of the show said that SOUTH PARK was one of her main inspirations, I was pretty much done with life at that point.
@@FeministCatwomanher the hall too compare her humor too South Park was what took me out. South Park isn’t crude for the sake of it and it’s way better written than haz
we let hazbin cook for like 4 years! Its seasoned GREAT but still PINK IN THE MIDDLE. Thats how i would describe the show.
This seems like something Gordan Ramsey would say which already is the best way to describe this
Still pink in the middle and it's chicken
ITS RAW😂
it needs the lamb sauce
Sound like perfection for me
why does it annoy me that literally 99% of the whole cast has suits and bow ties 😭 like other oufits exist-
Oh definitely agree, I missed Vaggie's old clothes the whole time! She didn't need a bowtie :((
Fr, it's a old animation trick to have something around the neck to make it easier to animate but Jesus christ there other things besides bowties!! Give somebody a goddamn ascot before I lose my mind.
And chokers, every one of vivziepop’s girl characters have a choker
And are PAPER thin. Like insanely skinny for the most part. Just look at the main cast
I don’t think the suits are bad outfit design but it’s just that there’s no variety in the suits and as you said there needs to be more then just bow ties
“mental health is something you work on, your disorders never define who you are” THANK YOU
as a person healing with NPD this is it exactly, I can’t excuse the shitty instincts and thoughts I have, those still hurt people. And it takes time to WORK ON THAT
YOU’RE ENLIGHTEND I SEE! 💖 RIGHT! LETS SEE THE CLIMB 🗣️🗣️🗣️💯
Ts be mad difficult to go through. It went from Point a to point d 🧍🏾 excuse me? Where’s the moral choices where he has to choose between his old habits and his mental response? Where’s the backpedaling when shit hits the fan? Where’s the mental shutdown when he sees Val or things that remind him of him even though he’s been making progress through it? In fact, where’s the damn progress?! You just good now bro?!😭💯
@@OwONekko YEAHHH
my mom's been in therapy for NPD for about ten years and the insane difference in the before and after is huuuge, just wanted to give you some light in the tunnel so to say. I've never held her dx against her because I know she sees the world differently than I do, and so I put myself in that mindspace when we interact, so I do think there's some space to be given. A part of me feels "mental illness isn't an excuse" is a little ableist, like a way to hold neuroatypicals to typical standards that they may just NOT be able to meet, but I understand the message. You're brave for seeking treatment for NPD, btw.
@@appalachiabrauchfrau of course, you should always keep someone’s mental space in mind and accomodate for that, for many people they will always have traits that can’t really go away, and they shouldn’t be held to the same expectations. and for people like me who are healing, often we need a few extra chances to do good, I think there’s a balance to stroke between the ideas :)
Sorry if this is nonsense I just woke up
Also I’m glad to hear your mothers going well with her therapy !!
SAY IT LOUDER FOR THE DEMONS IN THE BACK!!
i feel like it kinda suffers from vizzies 15 year old humour where she takes a joke too far and haha character is segsual and says fuck a lot. im excited for a more adult show not a kid in trench coat trying to sit at the adult table.
THIS IS THE EXACT VIBE THE SHOW WAS IN HOLY
@@OwONekkonawww Blud called season 1 mid💀💀
@@OwONekkoand she said Vaggie and Charlie is terrible or something NAWWWW💀💀💀💀
Are you a kid@@Leavingchannelforgood
@@Leavingchannelforgoodit was mid tho
When people were complaining about the lack of development for the female characters in helluva boss vivzie said that helluva boss was more focused on the male character's and that hazbin hotel would be more focused on the female characters. but the male characters like angel, alastor, husk, and vox are the ones in the spotlight but charlie and vaggie our main couple are on the side and are so underdeveloped. Its unfair cause they have so much potential but they dont go beyond the golden retriever gf and black cat gf dynamic.
yeah thats y i was more exited ab hazbin hotel but its also guy oriented
Even Velvet gets the least screen time out of the Vs
@icarisk7013 I KNOW and that sucks cause i love her so much, nearly every character had their own moment in the finale song. But I wish velvette had a verse with vox and val and I wish carmillas daughters had a chance to talk maybe. And Carmella shouldve been part of the fight it just makes sense.
See this is a common complaint but I don't get it, I enjoyed everyone, especially Vaggie, Velvette, and Carmilla (ah, Carmilla 🥰). They're not assaulted like Angel or total mysteries like Alastor but that doesn't mean they're not interesting. It's like when Sarcastic Chorus said he didn't think Chaggie needed drama, but then expressed that he was disappointed they didn't use Vaggie's reveal for drama 🫠
@47ratsinahoodie I'm not saying they're not interesting, they are. But I'd like to see WHY they fell in love and and how they both decided to open up the hotel and redeem sinners, and why does charlie want to heal sinners so bad? I just kinda feel like we need more you know?
I was watching this show with my bf and he pointed out how the only black-coded character in the show was owned by someone and asked why every character is in a tuxedo/dress, have shark teeth, and built like twigs. I was so blinded by the "it's an indie animation!" cope for so many years to realize the show was fundamentally stuck with that tumblr fan comic writing and design. Leaves you questioning the morals of the author, but it's harmless indulgent fanfic so it's fine. But it ain't a indulgent fanfic made by a single kid with a wattpad anymore, it's a full blown show with a studio and production crew.
Literally stylistic choice😭
God it seems artist can't art anymore to yall.
@@Dojafishsure, it’s artistic choice, but they really aren’t very good choices. most of the cast just has a regular old suit going on, and a lot of their designs don’t really represent who they are. and sure, I get that the red color in the characters are prominent to contrast heaven (since they’re in hell and all,) but alastor?? come on… he’s literally all red. to add on, both alastor’s and husk’s designs are giving edgy teenager furry oc’s… I know viv made them when she was a teen, but she could have at least changed some of their design to fit better with the actual show.
@@olivoil.What's funny is biblically the color of Pride is purple.... the only reason it's red is because Viv likes the color red. It's
-Wrath: Red
-Gluttony: Orange
-Greed: Yellow
-Envy: Green
-Sloth: Light Blue
-Lust: Blue
-Pride: Violet/Purple.
@@Cheeseoverlord7th Where did you get that list from? This is super interesting, I want to know more
@@lauraw2526Google. and i think the bible too? idk i'm not christian
Vivzie is basically a yaoi fangirl if she was in charge of her creative ips.
Her designs are really uncreative;
They all are skinny or curvy women. Maybe an odd muscle guy thrown in and there are common motifs of chokers, gold teeth, hearts, suits, and or crop top. But it gets bad when nearly every girl character has a choker and every guy has a suit
@@Shadowsnhd and they're also repetitive.
You could have two different characters and they'd have the same body type or even personality wise. Like half of her male characters are the "uwu sad boy" type
I was thinking the same thing. She seems to have an obsession with writing about sexual male twinks in relationships. And loves to write them in depth when it comes to romance. I wouldn't think she was a yaoi fan if she treated the girl characters the same way. Bc she never sexualizes lesbian romance or lesbian characters the same. It's always soft and romantic and very little depth tbh. (From what I remember at least, mostly talking about the main characters not background ones)
I remember hearing that she was tumbler girl, so it would explain a lot. I genuinely wished she didn’t participate so much on her projects because most of the problems seem to come from her romanticized perspective
I loved Hazbin Hotel season 1 but I do feel like it was a little rushed with the episode uploading, not letting us really settle down and comprehend what was happening but I still loved the show.
I think you can blame that on the people who decided to give Vivzie only 8 episodes to work with. I mean she did a pretty good job using those 8 episodes the best she could I just wish she was given more episodes to work with.
the same can be said for the episodes in general. great concepts. great moments. but the pacing... it could really have done with some slowing down. Let us soak in the world! Let us care about the world and explain the cause of the hotel more! I know it's about the characters, but the setting is just as important.
@@oddgamingcat7442 We really needed more than 8, and it's just rubbing salt in the wound to only give them ~20min each 🙄 I hate that studios disrespect animation more and more and give shows fewer and fewer episodes to work with and then get pissy when people are hesitant to watch things that either won't have enough episodes at the start to love the characters and story or that will end up canceled and unfinished.
@@oddgamingcat7442 yo facts like even if they only have 15 that would’ve still helped I hope they get a full 25 episode season
@Tamaki_A.J what's your 3 favorite hazbin hotel characters?
"I'm a loser that's okay i am gay i am gay" had me rolling. (fr thought i let out an audible chuckle)
Angel Dusk became Twinkle Dust
I love the original song but i'ma need a full cover ngl 😌🤌
help same 😭😭 we need the new album to drop of the covers
13:11 thank me later
Why does that remind me of “there’s a shadow on the wall. Stay calm. Stay calm.”
The show gives me Devils don't fly gacha type of beat
LMAO
@@Lemons-iz3kh IT'S TRUE !!
HAHAHAHAHHA as someone who didnt watch the show i get this loll
TRRUUEE THO
Fr it's like almost all the characters are just mary sue rainbow ocs that have 0 flaws and are just the most powerful creatures ever??? 😭
I personally dislike a lot of the character designs in Hazbin hotel because Vivzie could have done more with them. You're telling me these characters are meant to resemble animals? How? A friend had to tell me that, since I wouldve never found out . Also, what the hell do you mean Alastor is meant to be black? And does voodoo? All of the main characters have a twig like body shape, which is especially annoying since there doesent feel like theres any variations. For example Vox and Alastor share the EXACT same body shape.
Not to mention how vivzie loves red. This is fair! Red is my favorite color, and most of my favorite character designs have red in it. But looking at all the designs lined up, I feel sick of red. Especially when most of the backgrounds are similar shades of red, which makes the characters with the same shades blend in with it. Warm color palletes only for hell would make sense and can work! You just need to make it so not every character is just red. Use Orange, yellow, magentas, SOMETHING OTHER THEN RED.
One last thing: ill forever be salty about Lilith's design. They did my girl so dirty. She's pretty, yes, but that's it. Her design has no personality, and it's so basic for a character that is meant to be LILITH.(I did research and Im stupid mb)
Riiiiight and not just Alastor but Sera and Emily? And Velvet are also suppose to be black. And it's like... where are their features to resemble that? And it's not just the characters mentioned before that have bland, flat designs. Most of the cast is suppose to resemble an animal or object in some sort of fashion and you would never guess by looking at them. Didn't Viv go to art school and this is the best she did with these characters? Why is everyone in red? Why is half of the cast wearing a suit, a bow tie or a hat? Why is everyone skinny and tall? I'm sorry but I've seen better designs on RUclips and Pinterst
I REFUSE to believe alastor is supposed to be black ☠️☠️ who lied to you 😭😭
@@laylamya2850viv said he is, apparently. creole specif iirc? i think it was to excuse the voodoo thing because some people had an issue with it. no idea why she locked herself in like that with a character who is clearly Not black but (shrug)
@@laylamya2850 the fandom. They all think he's mixed because his dad was white.
No..he's meant to be mixed... and it's horrendous...
Loser, baby isnt about "oh its okay because im a loser nerd" its about losing the game metaphorically (for husk, literally) and even though they have lost, they are together and can get better from here.
This
You can really start to tell that it has a nice message instead of just calling themselves losers when they say the lyrics “but you’ve got company” and “if we eat shit together” along with “we’re all living in the same shit sandwich”
Frickin finally someone gets it. I was able to get what the point was the first time I listened to it. 😭😭😭
Kinda doesn't matter what the point is if it doesn't stick the landing. Telling a rape victim he's a whiny bitch isn't really it for me ans a lot of others.
I didn’t know people were struggling to grasp the message 😦😭😭 did they listen to the full song or….
stop bc i love plus size charlie TToTT i am going to cosplay charlie for a con, but i am bigger. i feel so self conscious bc all the characters are so small. i agree so much about her personality. shes AT LEAST 200 years old. how has she seen all of this in hell, and still be so blind to it??
No need to feel that way. If you love the character and want to dress up as them, go ahead!
DO IT!!! IM LOOKING AT YOUR PROF PIC AND I KNOW YOU WOULD EAT IT UP! And honestly YES! She was frustrating the HELL outta me sis 😭 but I learned to appreciate her a little more in this comment section!
And her bubbliness doesn't match up with her role as the princessorlf Hell or the fact that she’s from Hell in general
@@PGbutalsofourteenplusthat’s the point tho? Thats the whole joke and is a usage of juxtaposition!!! Besides it’s not crazy to think she was shelter from hell until she was old enough
@@PGbutalsofourteenplusyeah but take 1 glance at her dad and you'll see why she turned out that way lol
this woman is so good with her words. she perfectly embodied my thoughts on this show. writing a problem poorly is fine because everyone handles it differently, *unless* it’s fully animated rape. this is like a middle schooler’s guess at how sexual assault victims act. the writing, the visuals and the message all just made me feel so disrespected and mocked. “it’s okay to be bad if you’ve got meaning to your life” is a message meant to resonate with people who make mistakes, not people who are forced into them by systemic sexual abuse.
Ive heard people say the opposite to you though so i still think its more up to interpretation, even if it is about a serious topic
I think I recently figured out why angels story feels more like fetishization than actual genuine storytelling: all the shit you said, but also:
1) the SA jokes in helluva boss and Hazbin hotel. Like any joke with moxxie in helluva, or the “because I’m having sex with everyone” joke with sir pentious. It doesn’t match the seriousness of angels story, and it leaves the show with an inconsistent view on SA. Is it a bad thing we need to 100% take seriously, or is it just a funny haha joke we need to see once and never think about again?? The tone is inconsistent.
2) all of vivs favorite relationships in her shows are abusive/coercive/toxic in some way. Val was originally supposed to be Angels boyfriend. There’s TOO MUCH to unpack in stolas and blitzos relationship.
3) his story just feels like it’s gonna be a rewrite of fizz’s. Tragic famous hypersexual gay guy gets abused by other powerful guy in show business, gets saved by strong wholesome boyfriend character, they live happily ever after. They even both have small animal sidekicks to comfort them. It doesn’t feel like a genuine story because it’s just a recycled storyline with different characters inserted into it.
Also, 100% agree the daddy issues shit came out of nowhere. I especially hated that in the SAME EPISODE, they gave alastor half a song that ALSO CAME OUT OF NOWHERE. So instead of thinking “hey, this is coming out of nowhere, that’s weird, maybe he’s manipulating Charlie” I just thought “oh I guess they just forgot how to write a storyline like with the daddy issues thing.”
It’s like they’re refusing to tell us anything, and then calling us dumbasses for not understanding their show. You’re the ones making the goddamn show. Show your audience things if you want them to see them.
On no.2 fiz&blitz (more accurately, fiz/asmodeus and blitz/stolas) are foils, not "copies". Blitz/stolas is endgame, the plan was always for it to get worse before it gets better so a lot needs to change internally and externally (ie heirachy, marriage status, the book, the "baggage" in question) before they can be together.
In the meantime fizz/asmodeus models what their relationship could be once the bag is unpacked -same traumas same obstacles but theyre in a helathier place in comparison. We know thats what theyre here for because the couples interacting is to further the "unpacking" (stolas meeting w asmodeus to discuss an alternative for the book, blitz and fiz making amends) because thats literally what they were put in the story to do, and once blitz/stolas have made it through to the other side theyll have friends to relate to who are in their situation and theres enough personality between the 2 that they could still carry an episode
Foils arent a new thing, eg. Sokka & Katara (since atla is the default) or the Gaang to Korra's team, or any villain group to the heroes (usually modeling what the heroes couldve become if they chose a different path eg. Superman and any hostile kryptonian) You wouldnt say either is a "recycled storyline with different characters inserted into it" because thats the point.
I'm not defending hazbin or helluva and I'm not ignoring your other points. Your last one was just unsteady
Also fun fact discussions on class& unequal foundations/power dynamics in queer relationships have been in queer media for some time :D Maurice (1913ish, but published 1970s) has it as a recurring theme since its set&written back when being gay was a jailable offence- lords got way more leniency.
and the creator outright romanticizes the abusive relationship through art and supporting creators who make art of it in a fetishizing way. there’s just so much wrong with it…
RIGHT!! Like the repetition of this show is CONSTANT. Not just with the ships but the characters personality and designs. Overall repeating 24/7.
And the other stuff too. I definitely get those vibes with how fetish-y this show is. And I wouldn't be too surprised IF they wrote this as their barely disguised fetish, or even pander to people who like that type of stuff.
Like even their merch is oversexualized, it's pretty much all over the place ://
Thank you for saying this. I watched the show cuz I had a couple of friends tell me they loved it and the whole Angel Dust "arch" left a weird taste in my mouth. I remember bringing it up to them and they were so adamant on how it's good representation and they didn't see anything wrong with it. I tried to explain to them WHY it didn't sit right with me but I couldn't quite put my finger on how to describe it. I think what you said describes what I've been feeling about it. I don't really know the history of the vivize shows as I've only been exposed through the amazon show, various reels and now some video essays like this one.
But to me, as someone coming from the outside, the whole Angel Dust and Valentino thing felt like the writers were trying to handle heavy subject matter but at the same time fighting "young girl obsessed with yoai" stereotype. Like I can feel it's almost there with trying to represent things (I think the song poison is good lyrically to get the point across but visually is a different thing) but there's a layer of immaturity of just finding gay characters hot undermining it all.
Another thing that makes me so angry about it is that everyone labels Angel Dust as a corn star with the angels even calling him the "corn star demon" when in reality he's just a sex trafficked victim??? Why are we trying to make him a cute and quirky corn star when he's getting brutalized???? And them him SHOWING the rest of the cast his corn videos like it's just some silly time??? Like hello??? So confusing to me
I think Charlie’s biggest flaw is that she doesn’t understand how to actually help people… like with angel dust, she didn’t know how to help them. With the “exercise” she did. AINT no trust fall gonna help. And that’s her flaw. She doesn’t properly understand how to help. She doesn’t know how to stand up for herself, as Vaggie needs to remind her to actually use her powers to help her get what she wants… Charlie messes it up, because she doesn’t know how to help or how to read the room. And Angel dust ends up yelling at her. I’d say that Flaw is over looked, but it’s true. Her biggest flaw is that she doesn’t know how to help. And even if she’s been in hell for her whole life. Some people do choose to ignore it. Think about it. She’s a princess of hell. Lucifer is a fallen angel. I think the fact she’s so “innocent” or “dumb” I believe is the fact that she is somewhat part angel. I may be completely wrong about this. Because I ain’t a writer for the show. But I think the fact that she believes in the bright side is probably from blind optimism because her dad use to be an angel… I mean think about it. Isn’t Lucifer the same way? The only difference is that he watched sinners become worse and Charlie didn’t. So that’s why Lucifer turned out differently.
Except other than Lucifer and maybe Emily, how many other angels are blindly optimistic or innocent?
Sera? She's "naive" in the sense that she's negligent and allows Adam free reign regarding his conduct during exterminations and that she (and the others) don't know what actually gets a soul into Heaven. Not because she's optimistic or innocent.
The Cherubs? They initially seem to be this given their attempts to save Lyle who, along with Loopty, profited off of experimenting on the poor. But Cletus calling him a "shitty old man" suggests that he and the others are aware of his actions and only tried to "save" him out of occupational obligation and not moral obligation.
Deerie may act cheerful, but given that this was while she told C.H.E.R.U.B about their banishment this comes across as indifference and not optimism.
Adam, Lute and the Exorcists? A group of bloodthirsty mass murderers who view extermination as entertainment?
Even Lucifer became despondent after being banished to Hell and witnessing the worst of humanity, something you mentioned and something that was shown in episode 5.
Charlie is born and raised in Hell and is over 200 years old, she's older than most of the sinners we know yet acts like and is treated like a kid by the radio demon and most of the denizens in Hell. She was explicitly told by Lucifer to not "take shit from other demons". Hell is a place full of sinners, "the scum of humanity". Why is she surprised that Angel was involved in a turf war in the pilot when he was part of a crime family? Why is she surprised that Valentino treated Angel the way he did? Why is she surprised at how "cruel" Alastor is and how he can take joy at the suffering of others when he's infamous for taking out and torturing Overlords? What made her think or come to the conclusion that there is potential good inside demons? Lucifer? He made it very clear he didn't think very highly of sinners. She may have "empowered" the sinners, but what does that mean? She gave them strength to do what? Also, she abandoned her people, husband and child to relax on a beach in Heaven.
Thank black I agree I’ve said this before
Also, she didn't show all her demonic powers because she didn't want a war at all. I don't believe Lucifer or anyone said, "Hey, this is the way you use your power to kill people." and some people don't appear to realize that.
@@nathilla7034 she’s in hell how doesn’t she know how to fight
@AMVHighUniversity does she have a threat that forces her to fight? Is someone trying to kill her actively?
I lowkey don't like how they didn't explain the thing with lilith or her dad problems 😭
Lilith's a cliffhanger and not meant to be explained this season but I'm not getting how so many people are missing Charlie and Lucifer's issues???? They're just so obvious to me 😭
nah i feel this i get that they dont wanna explain lilith for mystery but i think they forced the daddy issues narrative on the side of lucifer. Like we see that charlie wants him to be more involved in her life and her goals and stuff but lucifer is barely there for no good reason like besides the one flashback he does not give the vibes that he even wants to be a dad so that whole allister lucifer conflict made no sense when he had no place tryna take the father role when weve never been shown hes ever tried to be a dad.....also his design sucks
@@walliethewalrus11 Lucifer's uninvolved because he thinks Charlie doesn't want to see him because she's never reached out. Their relationship was built on misunderstanding because Charlie wants to see Lucifer but thinks he doesn't want to see her because he never reaches out beyond being bored or having her do work. Alastor was annoyed that Lucifer didn't know who he was and that's why he started threatening his position as Charlie's father figure. It doesn't really matter that he didn't try to take on a fatherly role before, he was _at_ the hotel, and _has_ helped Charlie, which is more than Lucifer, who was already self conscious about his involvement with Charlie, had done. There's the theory there could've been something in his past that made him do it as well but the ego thing is the only thing that's confirmed right now.
What do you mean you didn't like the explanation.....there wasn't one lol like they told us nothing
That's what to expect from a show by Viv so Idek why you're so surprised it wasnt.
I feel like one of my main gripes with hazbin is how the creators don’t seem to realise that the things they portray actually _affect_ the people watching it. The fanbase seems mostly composed of tweens/teenagers despite the fact that the content it contains should probably be more restricted. I know Viv can’t control her audience and tbf I’m a teen as well, but shouldn’t that tell her something about how shallow and immature her portrayals of these themes are?
My friend got really into hh recently, and it’s kinda fascinating in a grim way how it can affect and romanticise people’s views on this stuff. Like, a lot of the messaging seems to contradict itself - for instance, they _try_ (emphasis on “try”) to depict angel’s abuse as the serious topic it is, despite the fact that they play other, less plot-relevant characters (such as sr pentious in a throwaway gag) going through similar situations off as a joke.
If almost your entire fan base views a character’s trauma as a sexy edgy character trait, then isn’t it kind of a sign that you’ve done something wrong?
(Also the fact that they made valentino a goofy joke character really pisses me off)
Your art is gorgeous by the way! I loved your Charlie redesign as a plus sized character, she looks really cute and the colours are more harmonious. Seeing angel actually look like a spider instead of tall fluffy stewie griffin is a plus too.
I mean, Val is pretty realistic to me as an abuse victim. My abusive partner did have really goofy silly moments when he wasnt being a piece of shit and that was one of the many facets that made me cling to the 'good times' thinking that the torment would come to an end if I just got in line and acted right
@@artisticbeautybyhanako6801 I’m so sorry that happened to you, that absolutely sucks. I’m not saying an abuse story can’t have occasional positive moments between the characters involved, I’m more so annoyed by the way Sr Pentious’ abuse was played off as a joke.
Yeah, it's... problematic. Like, the show only wants to focus on one aspect of Angel's trauma. It's horrible at what he goes through and deals with. But, we have to remember that he is a prostitute and adult star. He's suppose to be addicted to drugs. Valentino is his pimp, not just an abusive Overlord and let me tell you, the show nearly doesn't touch half the stuff that people who've actually lived through that lifestyle. When did we see Angel do drugs and have a withdraw when he tried to stop? When did we see him do just about anything to get his next high even if it meant putting himself or others at risk? When did we see him go out and try to coax and recruit more street walkers? Okay, he stood up to Valentino one time to stop him getting to Nifty but when have these two build a strong enough connection for Angel to step up and talk back to his pimp? I know this show wants to do the cliché power of friendship can fix anything but for serious, real-life issues that these characters are supposedly going through, we all know that's not how life works and in a way it is kinda not handling the topics well
OMG YES THE SIR PENTIOUS SCENE WAS SO WEIRD!!! I was like, "wait so now they're playing male SA as a joke???" All the ab/se scenes with Angel give me a weird feeling too. Like, do we really need to see him getting beat? Idk I also have OCs that went through SA and I could never imagine drawing them experiencing, it feels gross.
These arguments are honestly so valid and I agree with each of them, I just think that one of the reasons why most of these flaws exist is because the show was restricted to the 8-episode season format that Amazon Prime has for most of its shows. The story might have been a little rushed to fit this format too.
Finally. Someone other than me has pointed this out. I barely see anyone mention this
Helluva Boss is an ongoing show, and Vivzie is making the same character and storyline blunders over there. So can we really say it’s the 8 episodes at this point?
I'd say that they could have taken a page out of Owl House's book when it came to pacing. Owl House had limited time and did SO WELL with it. Hazbin hotel should use it as an example to learn from
@@happenedbychance3392 Mhm
I’m sorry but viv has a history of not knowing how to write, character dynamics, rushing plot points and oh yeah reusing daddy issues like crazy. I think this 8 episode restriction just forced her to be more strict but she instead doubled down and just decided sped run her story.
As a mentally ill gay man, Angel gave me PTSD vibes. Which I have, and it felt more like Husk was saying for Angel to be okay with just himself, his true self not the being rude. Cause his being an asshole and really flamboyant is a mask for how he actually feels, which is realistic for someone traumatized. I was mean for the longest time towards my friends because I was constantly hurt or left behind by people I tried to be nice to and tried to change for. I was mean to push people away and be prepared for when they did leave. My best friend sat through that and was just there till I realized what I was doing and made the active choice to change and get away from people who hurt me or encouraged my bad behavior. I'm in therapy now, and I try to understand my own emotions from the standpoint of someone who didn't feel for like 80% of their life. I still snap at people but I take the time to apologize when I need to, and know when I mess up. Being okay with how you act and realizing like, I don't need to hide how I actually am is a big thing for trauma and learning to overcome it, at least from my experience. You aren't gonna just know how someone feels without them saying it. I act very standoff-ish and cold constantly, but that's genuinely just how I am. I've got autism on top of PTSD so I don't really emote about anything, I look mean and disinterested 90% of the time (I also have resting b*tch face). However when I am interested or excited you can kinda tell. I also will make a point to verbally tell my friends "Hey, I'm interested in whatever you're talking about, please ignore my tone" cause I will sound deadpan and really disinterested in something but be interested cause it's my friends telling me they like something. It is more of a tell don't show when it comes to some neurodivergent/traumatized people. Especially people who are really good at hiding how they actually feel because they've been in an abusive situation where you just can't express when you feel something. Cause like, I used to get screamed at for breathing too loud, and if I cried I'd just get beat more. So I look like a hardass that doesn't feel because that's how I was raised. In reality I'm a big softy who cries when I watch shows I like cause they make me feel okay to emote. For some emotions are just a big weakness, that's how I viewed mine for the longest time until just recently where I realized feeling is okay and I do enjoy it. It can just be really overwhelming, which is fine if you know how to work through that. But also understanding not everyone will be okay with how you act is a big one, and some people don't realize that until they're told. Also like, you can't tell if someone is disassociating, at least from what I know and have seen. When I start to I make a point to tell whoever I'm with that I am because if you don't pay super close attention you can't tell. I just get quiet and get a 1000 yard stare, or I just kinda look down and don't really respond to people. I'm also just not super talkative and tend to look around a lot or watch stuff/people when I'm mildly curious about it, which can include me just kinda staring off into space. His character can have better writing, but from the standpoint of someone who is mentally ill and was heavily abused I get why he acts like he does. Learning to overcome/work through trauma isn't always pretty either. It can be break downs, throwing yourself into substances, lashing out, using s*x as an escape, as long as you acknowledge that that's not okay and are willing to grow and learn from it, along with apologizing to the people you've hurt, you're fine. Knowing you've made mistakes and those mistakes are okay is a big one, at least for me. Angel would be just at the start of his journey of growth, and it may not be a pretty start and that's fine. Mine wasn't pretty, it was me at 4am sweating as I reached out to a therapist because I was terrified and felt sick to my stomach to ask for help, but I knew I needed help. As long as his character later on acknowledges that what he did wasn't good, and grows from it all, it'll be fine. That's realistic growth.
I loved the video though and the art was gorgeous, I was just stating how I view Angel Dust cause I get why he acts how he does.
No I really love this. I have C-PTSD from repeated SA as a child/teen so alot of this stuff really hit home. The power dynamic, the way hes basically stuck. I used to get into fights alot because my emotions it would feel like they controlled me. I used to wish I were a Robot so I couldn't feel so much. Your absolutely right about owning up to your mistakes because ive made alot of them! It's a steady climb for sure but one that I think alot of people need to see. I was hoping for that climb to show more with angel and was a bit disappointed to see it in one burst of an episode and then he's all better and redeemed enough to pass heavens judgement. Alot of it is probably due to pacing but I would love to see season 2 really help other people understand it better! Having characters represent us in a way where any random person can form an understanding of it, is where I was hoping for it to go. i relate to angel dust as a character, but i dont agree with how they wrote his arc at all. theres no progression, no respect. compare astarion to angel dust and you can see the difference in respect in the writing.
I ain't mean to get all teary eyed in the comment section of a hazbin video but I'm glad yall are here with me. It's like looking into a mirror. The way we took it may be a lil different but it highkey brought us together right now! 💖😎 stay on that upward climb fam! I love you!
@@OwONekko I also have C-PTSD, I just shorten it. Mines from a bunch of childhood abuse due to my mother along with SA from past partners, so I get you. I get the wanting to be a robot, I felt like a robot for so long. When I started my therapy journey and started feeling more it was extremely overwhelming and I also found myself wishing I could just be a robot again. I'm grateful I didn't just shut down again. I think it's just showing the start of his journey, I believe the "Oh he's redeemed, he passed Adam's test" was a way to show that Adam's test was BS and he isn't actually redeemed. Cause they don't know why souls get into heaven. I do think it's also cause of pacing, from what I know season 1 and season 2 are basically the same season, Amazon just had them break it up for some reason, at least that's what I've heard. I hope they expand more on Angel in the future and give him the growth he deserves and show more of it too. Not having representation for people like us with PTSD in gerenal is an issue in media, which leads to people just not understanding why we respond or act the way we do. What you went through is valid though and you are valid, don't let anyone else tell you differently. Our views are a little different but it did bring us together lol. Thank you, keep up the fantastic work and I hope your mental health journey goes great too. Love you too.
I would also like to point out that Angeldust is only now getting a support system that is encouraging him to improve. Husker and Charlie are pushing back on how he is behaving and Angel is starting to understand that he has support to change those behaviors now if he wants to. The scenes with Nifty indicates that he is starting to want to be better and to care for others.
I have been in the thick of it with my mental illness and not having a support system has actively hindered me with getting better for years and kept me with the my abusers. While I have made strides in the last ten years, I am still pretty stuck, but I am trying to build my support system and trying to be better for myself and for others.
Cherri Bomb, while fun, actively enables Angel's worst behaviors. So his BFF isn't a significant part of his healing journey but she seems like she is coming around to it! In the end, so much of the show was stunted by its runtime and the characters has no chance to breathe and have poignant arcs.
@@kraziiXIII That's true, I didn't really realize that at first. He is just now getting a good support system, and like you implied that's a major thing for healthy growth on a mental health journey. I personally have a very supportive support system that checks up on me and actively encourages me to get better. That was only after I was out of an abusive home though and prepared for a support system to help me along. Being stuck is never good, but you have made some progress and that's better than none.
I hope your journey takes a turn for the better and you're able to find that support system, I get it can be difficult but you got this.
I think Cherri is coming around to it, just kinda slowly cause she's more of a life of the party kinda person and may not fully get why Angel wants to get better since everything they do is fun.
Yeah, I agree, the runtime did stunt the show. It felt more like the episodes were loosely tied and we got kinda rushed snippets of their issues and personalities. Just as a way to quickly familiarize the audience with the characters while also trying to throw in the overriding theme of the story.
Eyyy complex ptsd and autism family
I'm a fan since the pilot came out. I love the show BUT they needed to space out everything. Having 2 songs an episode is FINE, it's a MUSICAL. The real problem is that we were introduced to 100 new characters in roughly 3 total hours (including the pilot) then tried to juggle them for that short amount of time. An example of this done well is Across the Spider-Verse. While we met many new characters there was a sincere focus on a handful. I wish the first season was getting to know the inhabitants of the hotel, full stop. Introduce Adam and Lucifer in the finale.
EDIT: wrong miles movie lol
YES YES A HUNDRED TIMES YESSS!!! 😭😭😭 it seemed like the true end when you have literal ADAM attacking you, AND YOU WIN! IN 8 EPISODES! When i tell you The pacing was VIOLENT for me 😭 but I'm hanging if you hanging! Let's see where the show takes us! 😎💖
@@OwONekko honestly i just wished they had given more time for the show! the ideas are really good but the pacing is really jarring at times and if they just had like 8 more episodes to flesh this all out it would've been sooooo much more rewarding. this can be the problem with studio animation. yeah, you get payed a lot more, but the publishers are dicks.
OMG YESSS I LOVE HAZBIN HOTEL BUT I 100% AGREE
AHHH yes i love this take
@@OwONekko while i do see where you're coming from, there's only so much you can acomplish with whats supposed to be a series but only has 8 episodes, cuz for what hazbin went for, 8 is absolutely not enough for them. that is where basically almost every single one of the things you mentioned in the video (except the loser baby situation wich is just a case of not sending their message the correct way wich leads to people thinking it has the meaning you mentioned) all of thos issues grow from this one root problem: they didnt have enough time to dig into anything so the had to rush it in the span of 1 episode only, speaking of wich, what happend that so many shows only put like 8 episodes a season, like idk why we all just decided that 8 is the number
Honestly, I was so mad that they didn’t do more with Vox. I thought he had a really cool concept, and they really should have explored that more. He had his TV empire, his mind control, the Vees. They set up his relationship with Alastor really well in the song, and I was really excited to see that dynamic explored but then they just… did nothing. And then he randomly popped up in the end?? It felt like they just… forgot about him until someone was like “Oh yeah, that guy exists. Let’s just throw him in I guess.” It annoyed me, and I wish we could have had more of him and his goals and relationship with Alastor and the other Vees.
Based on the last song, it looks like the Vees are being geared to be the main villains next season. HOPEFULLY THIS IS THE CASE. Such interesting characters and they are never explored upon
I FUCKING LOVE VOX 😻
As someone who has been struggling with hypers3xuality for years (since young childhood), it did rub me the wrong way while watching ep 4. Like, i get it, Angel has been going through terrible times from Val, but i dont think that gives him the total excuse to act s3xual around others unless they have gave consent for him to do and act like that. It seemed so weird, as i NEVER act so out wordely s3xual to my friends unless theyve told me that it was okay. He just does it and everyone forgives him (the fandom) because 'Oh no! Hes suffered and this is his outlet! Let him act s3xual around people who may or may not have consented to that!' Its just... it rubbed me wrong.
The reason why he does that is because it is a mask he is putting on, deep down he is hurting, and husk found that out. When husk called him out for being "fake" with all the sexual stuff he says, he got angry and defensive.
@@GaryCandyPrince you're literally excusing his behavior to act that way around others.
No matter the trauma or what someone's been through, their bad actions shouldn't be justified because they were traumatized. It's still bad-
I think since he grew up in a shifty environment (raised in a mafia family and a drug addict) and when he got to hell his perception of relationships were fucked up because of Val, he ended up normalizing bad behavior and applied to everyone else to cope with the shit he went through. it's obviously not an excuse, but what can you expect from someone constantly surrounded by negative influences?
I think that was the point. The show doesn't tell you it's good behaviour. Husk calls him out, Vaggie calls him out. It's just the fandom that excuse it. He did tone it down after episode 4
So glad you mentioned the part where Husk just tells the audience every character's flaws that scene shot me in the face and stole all my family heirlooms
Yeahhh, I agree. And I love Husk but that moment also felt slightly OOC, like, he wouldn't share people's shit like that, he's the bartender confidant 😂 they could've kept in the detail that everyone confides in him while not telling us all of the character's struggles in a forced way. He keeps the comment about people always talking to the bartender, doesn't state the cast's problems, and *maybe* (if they wanted to play it comedic, which I think they did), make a comment about how sir pent watches them sleep in like a "this is why what happens during drunk confessions stays with drunk confessions" sort of way.
I mean....that is just going off what he can observe about them publically?
@jaydenc367 It doesn't matter what the in universe explanation is, the scene was terribly out of character and an example of telling instead of showing. Also, it's not really what he can publically see if the issues he pointed out aren't ever actually shown with the characters. I mean, we're told "these are their issues", but those issue are never apparent aside from that scene and never impact the characters. It's like the writers went "how can we tell our audience about our characters' struggles?" And someone went "Oh, let's have Husk just say it and forget about them entirely after the scene".
@@cam_luong I am pretty sure he was just going off of what they publically show about themselves.
@@cam_luong It kinda does though. How was it out of character? And I mean that shit was already shown...Angel was clearly hiding something, Charlie is a pushover with daddy issues, etc. What issues weren`t clearly shown? No...that was in episode 4 the episode were Angel`s problems were more obvious then ever, and by then it was clear that Charlie had problems too, so how were they not apparent? It honestly isn`t like that at all tbh.
I don't think Loser baby's message is "We're both losers and shity people but it's okay because we have mental illness and we don't need to change" but rather I think it's about Angel thinking that he's alone and he's the only person who's ever gone through the type of trauma he's experiencing and that he feels like a loser and hates himself. Then husker telling him that he is not the only person who's ever gone through something like that and that even though he is kind of a crappy person because of his. He is not alone and they can get better and improve together.
Yeah! That’s the exact same thing I got from this song too, made me really like the bond husk and angel created during that little song. When angel said he had his soul sold to valentino, husk just scoffs and says “you’re not the only one”, cuz he had his sold to alastor. That’s what really homed the theme in for me.
Ofc I respect neko’s interpretation too, I can see how some people could think of it that way
Yeah the parts of this vid up to Angel's section were sensible and I agreed with them, but everything about him in this are kind of wild misreads.
I totally agree! I also think it was partially because Husk knew Angel wouldn't believe him if he was like "nah you're good" so he was blunt with him while still helping him feel better :)
I mean the song also gives the vibe of “fuck it your mentally ill and have problems so what” especially when husk says “its okay to be a” then angel interrupts and says “coked up dick sucking ho?” And then husk replies “baby thats fine by me” when in episode 6 husk is like “if you wanna fuck up ur chances then be my guest i just thought you were better than that”
But husk didnt you just say two episodes ago that if angel dust wants to be a coked up dick sucking ho it’s fine by you. I dont get it, and its also telling angel “dont change because were all fucked up so”
I think it's a combo of the two, honestly. Like she said she gets what they were trying to do, but to have that be the entirety of the resolution leaves a bit more to be desired. Like, it's absolutely a good thing to realize you're not alone, but how does that actually address your mental state or explore how it affects you now that you know?
Toward the end of the song it devovled into 'let me list all of my bad qualites, many of which I gained from dealing with, or rather NOT dealing with my traumatic experiences and lack of self worth. As if just accepting that youre a loser who does bad things helps you grow into someone who doesn't need to rely on those same bad coping mechanisms.
I just wanna know why Lucifer looks and acts like a 15 y/o ring master with clown makeup
You know, I just realized. A better written and handled character that is very similar to Angel Dust is Astarion from Baldurs Gate 3.
SPOILERS AHEAD FOR THE GAME.
But think about it. He was also a sex worker (in a way, he used his body to lure in victims for his master), a slave to his master, he is also severely abused by said master/boss (and I mean SEVERELY), is also flirtatious and hyper sexual (on the outside), also has violent tendencies, is comedicaly cynical, has trauma left right and center, and YET HE IS HANDLED SO MUCH BETTER. The torture he had to go through for 200 years was never shown, but he tells you about it in some of the most gut wrenching scenes in the game (much more respectful in my opinion). His distrust and constant fear of people is not told, but is shown by the way he interacts with everyone. Hell, if you decide to romance him in the game, he tells you how he doesn’t know how to be in a normal relationship without feeling disgust towards himself and others. THATS how you write someone who is a survivor of SA, someone who carries that trauma but can heal. Also, unlike Angel Dust, he NEVER CAME ONTO ANYONE WHO DID NOT CONSENT. He never flirts with someone who is not interested, and respects boundaries (unless you ascend him, and if you know you know). In certain moments of passion scenes, HE VISIBLY DISSOCIATES (SHOWING AND NOT TELLING PEOPLE)
Anyways, Astarion is the properly written Angel Dust, and that’s my conclusion
THATS WHATBIVE BEEN SAYING! They’ve put so much love and respect to astarion and his trauma. You see him let down his walls overtime and you get to appreciate where he’s at even though he’s not perfect. And he in turn changes his beliefs after witnessing the impossible be possible over and over again through TAVs actions and live and trust. Unlike angel dusts fast ass no feeling ass redemption arc.
Angel dust is like the great value version and I HIGHKEY hate it. Comparing them is like night and day
"Loser, Baby" is a song that applies specifically to people in situations where they cannot escape. Both Husk and Angel have sold their souls and have very little autonomy in their lives. They've both "lost," so they're "losers," and Angel specifically tells Husk that a message of "thinks can get better" won't make him feel better because his situation is so bleak.
Through the song, Husk responds by saying, "even if things might not get better, there are tons of people going through very similar situations where they've sold their souls and have lost autonomy, so instead of wallowing in self-pity you should find solidarity and companionship in those people."
It preaches acceptance of your situation in a way, but it absolutely doesn't tell you to be complacent.
I didn't really get that from the song tbh. If that's the message it was going for, I wish it had been executed better. Also also that message still doesn't really work in the context of SA and other types of physical abuse imo
To me ‘loser baby’ is just husk saying, “You’re fucked up, you’ve got issues, stop pretending you don’t.” I don’t know if the message of accepting the bad situation you’re in is clear but I don’t feel negatively about the song in general. Husk is such a rude character it’s not surprising to me that his version of saying all that was to be like “just accept that you’re a loser, at least you’re not the only one.”
Yes absolutely! 💖💖💖
@@jaythesiren Glad you're prefacing it with 'I didn't really get that' and ending with 'imo' cause that certainly is a take. Can you really not look even a bit past the surface on things like this? Not to mention, what a nasty way to put down victims of sexual or physical abuse when the song is about realizing the dangers of closing yourself off to others/isolating yourself off, to stop putting on an act for others of "enjoying" the abuse and horrible situation, and acknowledging that you can't just 'handle it yourself' when (as displayed in the Poison song) you're actively sinking and drowning. Furthermore, in the context of the show, there is no escape from the contract he made, no one can just magically step in or make it better for him. Which is were the song puts emphasis on recognizing that others are in a similar awful situation and that, while again there isn't a way out of the contract, you can find companionship or support from others who understand what it's like to lose autonomy as the original commenter said.
@@Toki-np3xj wow, that's quite a long paragraph. So I'm not reading it, I do not have time to argue with Hazbin fans, all I'll say is that as someone who has been through SA in various ways I feel that the entire angel dust arc is romanticized and poorly thought out. I do not think it is saying ANYTHING deep about abuse, and if anything it's literally just using the dramatic plot point for cheap depth. I'm happy if you and others find meaning in it, but it made me feel incredibly unhappy, sad, and just kinda.... Gross? Idk the word to describe it. But I think that is also valid.
I think for the song loser it was more meant to be ironic. Like Husk trying to tell Angel that even if he feels like he a loser he’s not alone. Though I can see the disconnect with how they present it in the show.
Yeah, but husk isn't also being SA.
@@colindowden2182but both their souls are owned by someone else and they both feel limited and trapped because of their contracts. That's what they used to relate to each other
@@microzoftvamiraculousash1663 Yeah, but husk isn't being gangbang against his well.
Angel literally is known by Pride and the Pilot shows this, you arent a loser if you're famous especially in a "small city" like Pentagram City.
@@artistanthony1007he is a loser in the fact he is famous yes but he is broke,drugged addicted mess because of Val
Listening to you talk about this helped me realize why the show "icks me out" so much. It feels EXACTLY like something I would've written in like, seventh or eighth grade lol. Especially a character like angel dust. The fact that it feels so immature + being so explicit disturbs me because I KNOW despite being an adult show it's attracting middle schoolers and children (I know ratings never stopped me before lol) which is inevitable but to me it might as well have been written for that typa audience with how it handles the issues it portrays and the character designs which feel mega childish/immature somehow (to each their own, it's not my favorite style, but when it comes to aesthetics art is completely subjective) I am NOT trying to come for vivziepop or whatever. I used to adore her animations when I was younger. It's important to have a diversity of styles but the writing has got to support it. And it crumbled.
No omg you took the words right out of my head! It was immature! Like no I understand! For a more mature audience, it didn't hit as much for plot and story but if I were still in my weeaboo era this shit would be a 5 course meal. I used to write comics about the most edgy shit like being abused and characters getting r*ped because it was "cool and different" (it was a cry for help lmao 😭) but i grew out of that and my tastes got better. It's like the writing in the show is stuck on that level of maturity. It's writing about it but only the "flashy" parts, none of the introspection 😭 I feel you!! 💖😤👏🏽💯 W comment
And I think that's why I can't get into it. This is something you find on wattpad or something and it's like, considering the time the series was worked on you would think it would have a more stable, mature, and consistent tone. The lack of world building, incompetent protagonist, "all villains are goofy and silly", the characters sounding off... Needless to say I checked out. Especially with how Alastor is handled now. I know that he's a fan favorite but I enjoyed and preferred how he was and sounded in the pilot, much more fun and easy to listen to. Alastor now is just a try hard edge lord and it should be a crime on what happened to him. Lots of wasted potential with Hazbin
@@blackchickiedee7 they said they toned down the radio effect cause the fans didn’t like it
@@Quinqyincy okay well, I'm not referring to just radio effects, not being mean or anything however Alastor is different than he was in the pilot - a cringey edge lord who only says something to be pretentious. And it's annoying, not to mention his new voice, I don't like it. The creator did him dirty
@@blackchickiedee7finally somebody agrees with me on alastor. i feel like pilot alastor was so much more expressive, compared to alastor from the actual show he feels like a completely different character and i dont like it
I’m a little late but I wanted to rant a little about the “daddy issues” part of Charlie. She doesn’t have them, she has no daddy issues. Her father is loving, caring, and never once dismissed or denied her anything unless he thought it would hurt her, like a good parent should. Also, the line when Lucifer says “she hasn’t called YOU in years!” Implies that Charlie stopped contacting Lucifer while he still called and at least tried to reconnect with her, but Charlie refused. Charlie is selfish, and I know people will hate me for this, but she’s a self absorbed brat with little to no compassion or understanding for others. The fact that she went to talk to Adam and didn’t even know if it was possible to redeem a sinner. She just expects everybody to listen to her and have everything go her way, and her trust falls and all that will not redeem someone or help them improve..also, I’ve heard a lot of people say “this is a milestone for indie animation!” But it’s really not…it’s wasted potential that was distorted and ruined by a big company. All this show does is prove that streaming services and Disney and all of that ruin creativity. Sorry for anything that’s misspelled I’m too lazy to check, and sorry for being so late lol
( 8:06 ) Sorry but I think you kind of missed the point with this, like I was vibing with the whole thing until this because one, Fizz is disabled. He has prosthetics and it wasn't just a "Oh look he's such a good person because he helped a disabled kid." It was Fizz seeing himself in the kid who also had a disability like him and wanting to inspire that child to follow his dreams despite the disability. As a person with disabilities, I have to say that scene made me really happy.
OMG I MISSED THAT COMPLETELY!! IT FLEW OVER MY HEAD!😭😭 I guess it just kinda caught me off gaurd since it seemed like it was out of nowhere and we had never seen fizz do anything like that before. I thought they was just trying to play up the sympathy card for his character. No you're completely valid! Thanks for the fresh perspective!! 💖💖💖🥹
I was sitting after posting this and was like "bro why was that little deaf boy In hell anyways what did he do?!" Lmao 😂
@@OwONekkoif I remember correctly, the little boy was an imp, wasn’t he? And imps are hellborn creatures
I definitely really appreciated this scene too and think the criticism about it was pretty hasty and not really thought out.
I and other fans HC that Fizz had to learn sign language because his vocal chords were severely damaged from the explosion for a while and possibly his hearing, too. So using sign language was probably how he communicated at some point. Not to mention he's a performer, I'm sure it comes in handy in that vein too ☺️
@@sugasweet435thank you, the only thing more agitating than the lack of media literacy in this fandom is people who have seen both shows and STILL confuse all of Hell's residents as sinners (but maybe Im just buggin cause I've watched both an ungodly number of times)
Fizz is the character I relate to the most. I started to love him more as I'm working through accepting myself as a disabled person. When that scene happened, I immediately cried. It was so wholesome and sweet, and- you get it- XD I hope more stuff like that happens in HB, and I hope it happens somewhere in S2 of Hazbin, I love these flawed shows, they have a special place in my heart.
I liked Hazbin Hotel, but I also completely understand the points you made, and they make so much sense. I thought the episode with Angel Dust and Valentino was a little out of nowhere with the sudden intensity, and then.... it just went away? I would love to see more redesigns! I adore Charlie's body shape! I found it a little odd how there didn't seem to be much variation on body shape. Hope you redo Alastor because Angel Dust turned out so cute!
umm mimzy hello?
@koitern2567 I honestly forgot all about her lol. She was such a small part honestly.
@@koitern2567I hate to say it, but one character with a bigger body shape that played such a miniscule and forgettable role doesn't really count in retrospect 💀💀 not attempting to come off tude or mean, though
@@Mr_Tang.not to mention how it plays into her whole vibe being an anti Semitic caricature of Jewish women 💀💀💀. Like you’ve got one fat character who’s a caricature and that’s it? Not good.
lmao Viv has two fat characters, Mimzy and Mammon. (I'm not counting Adam bc the only glimpse we see of his real body, he has a chiseled jawline and thin face.) Mimzy is barely on screen and is immediately disliked by everyone and is an inconvenient and annoying antagonist. Mammon is also immediately disliked (despite acting just like Blitzo) and is portrayed as another fat, lazy, and annoying character. If you can't write fat people without making them bad, don't write fat people
I'm in no way a fan of Hazbin Hotel, and I have a lot to complain about it but I didn't read "Loser, baby" in that way. Husk was trying to help Angel like an episode or two later, he tried to get him to not get fucked up, not take drugs on the party they went on. Husk wasn't saying that he shouldn't change himself, or get better, he wanted to let Angel know he was not alone, that we are all hurt, and we shouldn't forget that.
This song genuinely helps me to feel any less alone in my own struggles.
They both fucked up by signing the contracts with Alastor and Valentino, that was a choice they made and it wasnt a good one, they lost. They aren't the only losers, everyone makes bad decisions sometimes and everyone loses something sometimes. I feel like "loser, baby" doesn't mean we shouldn't work on ourselves, just that we should remember we are not alone.
Agreed. Loser, Baby is the one redeemable song I find in this mess of a show. I feel like if Hazbin wasn't going at the abysmal break-neck pace that it was going and dumping all of Angel's trauma on the audience in Episode 4, we could have seen the show hint at Angel's self-loathing and showed Husk's more unorthodox and tough love way of showing kindness. I find it really ironic how people are criticizing the show for a lack of subtlety and nuance (which, in fairness, is warranted! I agree that it gets too hamfisted with its message at times) but completely misinterpret the subtlety in this song.
the only problems i have with the show is that sometimes it's a little to "i'M aN eDgY tEeN wHo CusSeS" and that they just went too fast. 8 episodes was deff not enough with the way this show was written
13:56 it wasn’t encouraging angel to be self-destructive, it was “Realize The bad things about you and work on them” they were talking about the things that they needed to work on to become themselves, if they were talking about the stuff that they needed to embrace, why would he talk about being enslaved by Alistair?
I hate to leave another comment but I keep seeing people defend the song like this and like yes, that's cool and all but in the context of EXPLICIT sexual abuse, or anything like that, its trivializing and doesn't do any good imo. It's like saying "hang in there baby"to your friend who's on a ledge.
@@jaythesiren nah not really. its more like already having fallen off that ledge, being at rock bottom but there also happens to be quite a few other people at rock bottom. angel is at rock bottom but isn't perceiving that there are also others in his situation that won't judge him. husk is encouraging him to drop the act and to be himself because everyone's at rock bottom anyway. the best you could do is be at rock bottom together and maybe things will be an upward climb for there. basically the songs saying "yeah, shit sucks, but at least we have eachother". that's how i interpreted it anyway.
@@jaythesirenangel’s contract works by the day and hour. he’s *off* contract when he goes out and does a bunch of drugs- the show even explicitly states he was about to drink a spiked shot to passout and wake up naked. anyone who lets you do that to yourself, whether you’re enslaved in a rape contract or not, is a bad person.
@@jaythesirenSome people hate the whole message of "it gets better!" because they feel like it's making their problems feel small and like "it's not a big deal because it's all sunshine and rainbows in the end!!"
You may disagree, and that's fine, because nobody processes trauma the same way. And that applies to people like Angel Dust.
Because sometimes the reality is that no, there's no way out. It's not awesome and amazing in the end, there's no happy ending and some people are genuinely trapped. But it's nice to have others who can relate to your struggle, and it's basically saying "Your feelings are valid, and being at the bottom isn't a bad thing. Everybody fails at some point and wallowing in your self-hatred will do you no good. If you accept the situation you're in now, it'll help you feel better in the long run."
Many people find this to be more encouraging, and accepting your place BEFORE moving forward is way easier than jumping into hot water from the get go.
Anyway, that's my opinion.
I agree so much on the pacing, girl each episode felt like a skip of 5 chapters inbetween 💀. Theres no time to breath or "filler episodes" i feel like A24 could be one of the reasons for that because ive heard they only gave them 8 episodes for season 1 but yet again ive heard season 2 eas green lit when they asked for season 1 so idk. Imagine all the deep character bondings we couldve seen. Heck we couldve gotten a tore around the hotel mix with hotel sleep over episode. Maybe explore the Vs and the overlords more since they immediately got skiped to 5 months later. Heck we couldve gotten more razzel and dazzel moments or an exploration around hell.
YES YESSSS IM GONNA SAY IT! I DIDNT CARE WHEN RAZZLE PERSISHED AND I FORGOT CHARLIE HAD A CAT 🗣🗣🗣
UGH you've compiled all my other peeves together it makes so much sense! A hotel sir pentious sleep over special would have really put a smile on my face, youre so right!!! 😭😭 I love your brain!
Season definitely needed more episodes regardless because there's only the potential for S3 right now and while I'm positive they'll get it, there's no guarantee. So it probably wouldn't have been a good idea to take the fact that they got S2 and then spread out S1's story more, assuming the story planned for S2 would be fine 😅
@@OwONekkoNo bc the only time I remembered/realized she had a cat was when Lucifer walked in the hotel and said "hey keekee 🥹" and I had to pause because I literally did not know where that cat came from 💀
@@cam_luongFR 😭😭😭
People keep talking about how the show needed more episodes but I've been thinking on it. Instead of more i think the show would have been better off at throwing some of the plot points out. If you can only have eight episodes, rather than rush, just tell an arc that's worth those episodes.
FINALLLY someone else who thinks that Fizzarolis character is weird. Like I love Fizz and Ozzies relationship and I think Fizz is a likeable character. But it just didn't sit right with me because for almost the entire show Fizz popped up around twice before his two episode's at the end. At first they showed him as like a villain type character and now he's all "UWU cuddly teddy bear that has trauma" Let me get this straight its fine to have characters like that and I personally think fizzes back story is interesting but they tried to squish his entire character arc into two episodes making it the pacing icky. ( Sorry for the bad grammar)
NO I FEEL THE SAME WAY YOUR GRAMMAR IS GREAT! I UNDERSTOOD 100%! I feel like everyone just ignores it or just genuinely doesn't know. I like fizz too but it was so badly cramped! It felt like they were trying to force me to like him right here, right now! I get that same vibe with angel dust!
As a BIG fan of Hazbin Hotel, all I gotta say is yes. Just yes because it made me so mad at how Viv threw out this 6 month 1 season show that’s supposed to be about rehabilitation but didn’t add any context. Like why was Alistor gone? What’s up with the Vee’s? Why do we know more about Angel Dust more than Charlie Morningstar? What’s the lore behind all this? Don’t get me wrong, I love Vivianne and her creations, but, not to be that person, this show either was rushed or not thought through.
Regardless of my harsh opinion, I really love your videos and I’m glad to have a found a RUclipsr with a similar opinion.
Edit: For people who are going to come for me on this comment saying it’s a show. I get that and I understand I just wanted to state my opinion of it so far. Further along the show if and when it continues, this opinion will change. I know these are obvious questions that will be answered by the creator and/or show, but I just wanted to express myself.
…Ya’ll don’t realize that it’s a *show* it’s going to explain these things when newer episodes come out.. to you know TELL the story.
Charlie gets me mad because she’s so bubbly and none confrontational. As princess of Hell, she needs to do more! Even her demonic powers were so weak for Princess of Hell when she fought Adam. Vaggie is just there to keep Charlie from going overboard plus her Angel reveal was expected. Like Carmilla said, it’s not rocket science 😂
Vaggie at that point was just demoted to side character. Like she really didnt do much.
Tbf, we've yet to see her go full demon and she's not a fighter. Even at the beginning of the fight she only had a shield, she wasn't expecting to be on the offense. I'm hoping S2 will see her get some training. Also, you'd be surprised how many people completely missed Vaggie's reveal 😭
@@47ratsinahoodie Fr.. Charlie is the second most powerful DEMON in Hell and she fought against a once MORTAL angel, Adam and still lost. I was disappointed when Lucifer had to come save her. Charlie has potential to be better but it’s just thrown out. Especially when she gets angry, she get emotional, flustered or something. The only time I liked her was when she yelled at Susan. Vaggie is just nonexistent at this point. Her design makes it so obvious that she was an exorcist that people guessed it during the pilot. I can see some parts of Angel Dust that were written sorta well, such as his fear of Val and doing what he says. Even when he’s on the phone with Val in front of the others or breaking down in front of Husk. However, the overall sexual parts were NOT necessary in Poison to get the “point” across. Angel could be shown to be more vulnerable in front of the others too instead of being the sexual gag character all the time.
Ong bruh
@lemncqkes9430 what's your 5 hazbin hotel characters?
I wish I were a bird.
Honestly same
Why are you speaking english?
@@cocochan_3 Birds like Parrots and Ravens are capable of human speech
@@ifeeldead463 The joke flew right over your head.
@@cocochan_3My daughter is going to America
I think angels loser baby message was “we’re both at our lowest point but we can learn to climb together”
They just wrote the song bad
10:07 AND HE'S DRINKIN HIS POISON HE'LL DIE FROM POISON 🗣🗣
I feel like the only character that wasn’t tell don’t show was Valentino. Like don’t get me wrong- hate that one weird scene with Vox where he’s empty brain whatever bs. But the way Angel was so scare, the visual and hinted at abuse in the show and song. Like that’s it 💀-
I think Hazbin hotel needed a normal 10-12 episodes. So we could get more and the plot could feel less rushed, I think with how well the show has preformed on Prime I believe that season 2 will have more episodes and get more into the backstorys of the characters. I am hoping for a better 2nd season as I think the show could truly improve with more episodes.
13:25 ONGGGGG i HATED how they were just so accepting that "yea ur life sucks deal with it" LIKE WTF????? calling someone a loser bc they're getting abused isn't cute it's frustrating to also see THIS as rep for a gay/drag queen character like come onnnnnn
"And girls KiSsIng-" *shows canon Asuka x Squidward deleted makeout scene*
After waiting 4 years, I just expected more development into Angels character, and his TWO songs, there were so many questions and no answers. I love the show and the songs but the asthetic and writing felt like it was for kids, so I agree with all your points, it was a let down and hopefully season 2 reedeems itself.
One of the songs was actually fan made and not given credit
@@loveablesimp Which one? Pretty sure ADDICT got permission
@@nyes4596 I mean I'd think so, the writer went on to work on Helluva Boss XD
The writing feeling like it was for kids is so real honestly bc once i finished the last episode i literally thought to myself, this is just a really horny 18+ Disney musical 😭
It feels as if a hormonal edgy teenage chronically online theatre kid wrote the show@@3starsburningbright
Its good to hear opinions that are different than mine, I think the show was good, just a bit rushed, Charlie and Vaginassourus was kinda weird bc they was just a cutesy couple wanna be that I simply didn't understand why they love each other so much, the show don't show how their relationship works bc they are already dating at the begining. Some characters were kinda forgot at the half of the season like Angel and Husk. Alastor was a perfect mystery. Lucifer is my favorite out of all the cast. And I wish that we could have 10 eps instead of 8 so things could not be so rushed
@nicthestoatshroomLike there was no reason to attack her like that-💀😭
@nicthestoatshroom well its her real name right? Adam named her like that
I'm 💀 LMAO I LOVE YOU! I completely agree! Alastor gave just enough while lucifer NEEDED more attention! 😭Charlie is cute but I almost feel bad for vaginasoourus 💀💀 cuz she didn't really get depth. She just throws herself to Charlie and that was it. I would have loved to see more dynamics played out I feel like shorter episodes in general would have helped paced everything out. It would have been better to have 16, 7 minute episode than the long ones with only 8 episodes yaknow! I feel ya! 😫💖👏🏽
@@OwONekko lmao I heard ppl calling Charlie the female version of SpongeBob
@@joaobiaziolli8415omg spilling the milk said that
Charlie is such a forced character and so bubbly and clumsy, she feels like a satire of a Mary sue and not even a regular Mary sue.
i audibly cackled at 13:10 bc honestly although there's a deeper meaning w the song that could basically sum it up 😭
I don't really consider Charlie a mary sue character but I do agree that she didn't get much of a proper arc. The daddy issues thing gets mentions a few times but she only really acts like she has them in the episode where she fixes them. They did so many plotlines they have to move at light speed to fit the limited time they were working with.
The best moment Charlie has for having real flaws that cause problems was how she didn't realize how hurtful it was to make Angel Dust act out an exercise where he was a drug dealer Sir Pentious had to say no to and that purity culture thing about sex. Then she made things worse rushing into Angel Dust's workplace and making a mess because she didn't really think about the problems with how she was going about it. they could've done more with that to have her learning to be more aware of the potential harm her actions can cause and how to help people more effectively.
The opinion with the Angel dust arc, i can see your points. Something else id like to add is angels and husk's relation feeling out of character. I mean the only interactions we had between husk and angel was husk getting harrashed the entire time and it felt like its all been excused because of angel's story which felt effy. Ngl Angelhusk felt rushed y'kno? Rn angel just needs a really good shoulder to lean on.
Also not like im being a party pooper but Angel really needs better lines in the show💀 he literallysays the same thing and same repetitive 69 jokes its getting more annoying than clever writen
I GOT A HAZBIN HOTEL AD RIGHT BEFORE I WATCHED THIS 💀😭
with angel dust, it’s very frustrating trying to like him. like u said “they tell the audience what is wrong with them rather than show it”, we never see any traits that would show us that he was abused. there are so flinching, abandonment issues, lashing out, ect. we don’t know that there’s even an indication that angel is being abused until the episode that focuses on his abuse and his trauma. even after that episode, we never see how angel copes or his trauma responses. sure he grows a bit in one of the episodes and fights back against valentine, but it still feels like they are TELLING AND NOT SHOWING.
it's interesting to see everyone's perspective on song Loser or angel in general. Personally As an SA survivor I really related to angel. The constant jokes about s€x, the self deprecation, it all makes sense to me because that's how I was too. My whole mindset was if I'm the one making the jokes I'm the one in control. To me the song was another example of self depreciation. Calling yourself a loser because you feel powerless. But it was also a "If you're a loser I am too, so lets be losers together until we figure our sh!t out" type deal, It was husk showing angel he isn't alone. But that's just my interpretation.
sorry for the long post and I loved the new designs! Chubby Charlie is everything, I love her😅
Ps. I understand every SA survivor is different. Some loved angel and some hated him. And I understand that even though I related to him he's still an extremely flawed character.
I personally interpreted the song as "we've both made choices we regret and can't take back so we're "losers" (the contracts) but we're both losers and we're all living in the same shit sandwich (we're not the only ones struggling through our problems so let's find some solidarity and lift eachother up, "if we eat shit together things will end up differently" - we can't fix all our problems but we can help eachother make our life a little more bearable
@@niedzisiaj6645 Yeah, that's the vibes I got from it too. It was more about solidarity, imo.
Yeah, a friend and I shared our experiences about it back in the day (we had both been SAd in the past), and having that company in it does make you feel like less of a loser. I really liked that episode.
Thank yall for watching! It's all love here!❤ 🥺 just to clarify though, I don't hate hazbin! I just hope it gets better because I know the characters can be so influential if given the right pacing and care they deserve.Yall are actually showing me sides i didnt see before too! I love that the show can bring some of yall joy!! Juuuust not me AHAHA! Now time to go back to your usual scheduled program of being crazy artists together on the internet! 💖😊
Oh wait, did you like any of the songs? Have a top three?
The part I hate is hazbin hotel had too much it wanted to say but only had 8 episodes with two getting released every week so we had to guess what was gonna happen in the next two episodes but then day one we got four episodes on prime
Can you do other indie show like murder drones
love your designs and commentary, you’re saying everything i was thinking ❤❤
stayed gone is a fucking bop and im sorry thats it >XD
1:42 this killed me 😭😭 “AlAsToR iS tHe hOtTiE bAd BoY”
I also felt weird about how Charlie has this entire ‘redemption hotel thing’ going on yet never cared enough to correct Angel Dust’s behavior?He was regularly seen making sexual/lewd comments about Husk and Alastor and even Lucifer at one point,yet no one even batted an eye?And then they made Husk go apologize for telling Angel Dust he didn’t like the comments and that his act was fake. It rubbed me the wrong way.
I don't think angel was trying to be lewd with Lucifer
@@PGbutalsofourteenplus”I’d like to meet the big dick in charge”
He said something like that,I don’t remember I haven’t watched it in awhile. That sounds like a fairly lewd comment directed to Lucifer.
I understand what you’re saying about Angel, but I also think the attempt was to show him (and the other Sinners, but most apparent with Angel) as being flawed enough to be in Hell. He enjoys the s*x, the partying, the dr*gs, but his coping mechanism is diving deeper into the trauma he’s mired in. Idk maybe I’m reading too far into it, but I think it makes the characters more complex. 🫶 love your art so much
Additionally, from a more specifically personal place, Loser, Baby reminded me that no matter what situation you’re in, you aren’t alone in it. It helped me to accept the very sudden change in my life and move through it a little easier because yes, it sucked and it hurt and nothing changes that, but I wasn’t alone.
Instead of wallowing in my own depression and anxiety (which is how large sudden changes of that nature in my past were dealt with) I was able to accept that it happened, and move through it more easily, albeit with dark humor, but still. I feel healthier for it 🫶🫶
I will admit that the sexual abuse/assault/trauma wasn't shown the best, but as a sexual assault and rape survivor I was triggered. I was flash backing and freaking out. I do relate to Angel but I think he could have been written better. I am happy that it was animated and written by actual victims so it's more accurate.
Note: this is only episode 4, the jokes make my skin crawl.
Masquerade's unfortunate cause it's definitely not for everyone. I hate that it took so long for Amazon to finally put a content warning on it. I know not every survivor took issue with it but some obv, you're here, did. Maybe if there was like, time stamps for the specific scenes, maybe that could've helped?
@@47ratsinahoodiei think the handling of the scenes itself was also very sloppy as well; the start of the episode being a filmed rape scene that you don’t realize is staged until the camera zooms out and shows it’s TV means that the show basically flashbangs you with incredibly triggering content. furthermore, scenes depicting rape in Poison are not executed well, showing it as more sexual than violent
@@yessure-hm8sp Which as aforementioned is something time stamps probably could've helped with. But the scene does well to show what kind of work Angel is forced to do, and we learn how he feels about it as a result of being forced to do it (with how he reacts to Husk criticizing it). Aso for Poison, I'm just going to copy/paste what I've expressed to someone else in the comments and add that it's possible for assault to be more sexual than violent y'know? Assault can be as simple as something like stealthing and not always look like assault at first; it's not always someone aggressively fighting to assault a desperately resisting person (heck, iirc that's part of why some victims don't even realize an event was assault) :(
"I also thought Angel was handled well, but specifically with Poison am I of the stance that it's not objectively handled right or wrong, period. _Several_ survivors have spoken up about the Poison sequence," as well as the entire episode itself, "both liking and disliking it. And it's not right to discredit any group of survivors so I firmly believe if you think it's good, that's fine. If you think it's bad, that's fine. But those are subjective statements and *_no one_* can say for 100% certain that it's good or bad."
Literally, the only part of anything in the Helluverse that made me physically uncomfortable was Val's... reaction to Charlie visiting, my arms shot back involuntarily. I'm not a victim of anything close to that (and y'know, the content warning everyone gives for it is there for a reason), but I genuinely felt shocked at how disconcerting it was. I'm a horror fanatic, and only one other media has given me the same feeling. ONE.
Imma say it now, sa or not sa there should have been a trigger warning, this triggered my own PTSD a lot and I'm nice to know I am not alone
But my commentary for episode 4... ehhh
They tried i guess but I don't feel they gave this subject matter the care it needed, going from sex jokes to full on rape and abuse is a 1 to 100 and I don't feel the show worked it's way up to it, if there was more build up following up this episode, maybe it would have had a better fighting chance but I personally dont care for poison, I'll give credit where it's due, it's from angel dust prospective but honestly if u had removed the sequence nothing would have changed because we already as the audience have a good idea of what he's going through, so it leaves me asking the question of "what does it add to the story that we don't already know" and now for the other controversial aspect of this episode, should vaggie have sent husk or should Charlie went to help, to allllllllll the people who think husk should have gone, I hear u and I understand that reasoning completely, husk understands angel better then no one else and had a good message, for all the charlie stands, personally I feel Charlie should have gone because by this point she hasn't been doing a whole Lot of helping like she said she want to do, she upset angel and she said sorry but that's it she didn't make any other effort to actually fix the damage she had cause she just shut down and while yes husk had a beautiful message it wasn't his problem to fix and yet vaggie sent him anyway and Charlie was too upset to go help the guy who literally gets assulted 24/7, it was now Husk responsibility spite charlie being the instigator and started shit so it would have been a good opportunity for charlie to show her true character besides being the positive cry baby and really give her the screen time she needed because she comes off a disingenuous about her goal to help sinners and really is just doing it for a distraction
That's personally my opinion
i feel like poison sounds like a fan song? like, a song made for the character after the fans watched most of the song so it says everything about the character. Thats what it feels like to me at least.
That’s because it was, it was written by Sam Haft and Andrew Underberg, Sam Haft, being the fan.
I disagree with you about Angel Dust. I don’t think his coping mechanisms are really shown to be harmful to others around him. Also, the song about him being a loser isn’t so much saying he’s worthless as it is acknowledging the fact that while his circumstances may be bad due to his own decisions, he still needs to, and deserves to be able to grant himself some understanding and sympathy instead of just hating on himself due to his past bad choices.
I love Hazbin hotel, but it's interesting to hear perspectives of those who didnt (and for valid reasons). I liked hearing your take on it!
Side note though, the scene of Fizzeroli signing with the deaf kid wasn't just to make him likeable, it was because Fizz himself is disabled (and may have temporarily lost his hearing during the accident). It was an act of disability solidarity more than anything, imho. I say this as a disability advocate with some invisible disabilities myself
100% on Fizz. I'd love confirmation for why he knows ASL, but it makes a lot of sense for him to have a scene with the kid. He was a kid when he first went to see Mammon, and he inspired him, but he was an asshole. Fizz had this kid in front of him, who's disabled like him (as well as possibly in the same way), and he wanted to give him a better role model than Mammon was for him.
@47ratsinahoodie I also hope we see Fizz doing more sign language in the future, it would be really disappointing to have disability rep but be inconsistent with it
@@scouttrout22 Agreed! It's probably a bitch to animate but I hope we get to see more of it.
One thing I noticed is that whenever an imp has hearing problems, their horns are damaged in some way. Both Fizz and Oliver (the kid) have horns that have basically been broken off, so it makes sense that they would both know ASL. I guarantee the only reason Fizz is able to hear is because he has some sort of advanced technology helping him hear similar to his prosthetic limbs.
Yeah him knowing ASL makes a LOT of sense as yeah after a huge explosion that caused you to loose your limbs and horns would definitely cause your hearing to be SHOT
As someone who hasn't been through Angel's situation, I read "Loser Baby" as learning to let go of what you can't control (Husk and Angel can't control their respective deals) and learning not to let that uncontrollable thing get in the way of changing your own choices. Specifically, in context to the previous scene of Angel starting to undo some of the mental progress by going to the bar with random demons to drink and get drugged up (which I didn't like the victim blaming of that scene)
Yeah, I agree with the victim blaming of that specific scene. I liked the song and didn't think it had that issue, but the scene prior did. I wish Husk was more upset at the people who drugged the drink and not at Angel for being self-destructive, or that the narrative showed that while Husk might've gotten upset because he's abrasive, it really was not Angel's fault in that moment, and have them acknowledge that, even if only for a bit.
Ok, this Charlie is just the cutest! I get Viv wanted to give Charlie a sharper shape language, but come on, this body shape fits her so well, and I also love her more... i dont know how they are called in english, but those little ruffles in her coat is so good, and even brings up a little bit of her angelic.
Tho if i am being nitpicky, her face looks so hard to translate to Viv's actual style, so I think it would go mostly to waste.
I feel like the bigger problem is also that all of these characters were well known to a certain part of the fandom anticipating the show, causing their affection for them to be earned prior to the show. The other side of things is the fans who had not been following vizzies characters, not waiting in anticipation, but interested to watch it nonetheless. The love from the characters that are overshadowed are mostly loved by those following vizzie for a very long time.
Show don't tell!!! I've been noticing that shows nowadays tend to struggle with the concept of show don't tell! I'm so glad she pointed this out because I always felt an itch while watching the show and that's exactly what it was!!
Girl did NOT stutter.
Everything you said was spot on, just… mwah.
You have opened up my eyes for this show a little more. I know this show has flaws definitely in the writing. You are spot on 💕
Yes
PREACH GIRL
PREACH
Also the art is so cute. I love the roundness in Charlie’s design with hard angles on her tailcoat. Portrays the personality I would think she has ❤🤡
I made my 8 year old cousin dislike the show after talking to her once while the pilot played😂 i made fun of the animation in a well spoken and calm way and now she dont like it. She agreed when i said it curses but is very childish. She was like "now that you say that you right! It is like a baby show with swears😭"
i loved the first season of hazbin but i do agree it absolutely felt rushed.
i feel like if they stuck to a season with more like 20-ish episodes (if that's even possible? not sure how it works when it comes to studios and how many eps they get) they would've had more time to flesh out the characters and their stories, not jumble it all together in a span of 8, 20 minute episodes.
im hoping in future episodes we see more body representation! i noticed a lot of characters we see, minus mimzy, is very slim. So hopefully we see more representation and potential used in season 2 & onward!
No seriously, what happened to 20-episode seasons 😭
They did a good job but 8 episodes was way too little for this first season to be condensed into it needed at least 13
I wish that they were allowed to do more. 20 episodes would allow for much better character building... but apparently, the geniuses who thought 8 episodes enough are somehow satisfied.
Yeah, A24 limiting them is frustrating, but they did what they could do with the time they were given. I’m just hoping A24 and Amazon give them a bit more leeway with episode quantity
It's the same thing they've did with the new Tokyo mew mew. The og show had 52 episodes but the new reboot condensed 52 worth of info into 12 episodes. I feel its a common occurance in modern television. 20 episodes would've given more time for character growth.
To your point about the characters being thrown at us without much introduction--I think you have a really good point. I felt like there were a lot of Q&As, Tweets, and other online stuff that really dedicated fans probably were exposed to that the more casual audience didn't necessarily see or read which was supposed to flesh the characters out behind the scenes. Which would inevitably make Hazbin Hotel more of a fanservice type animation for those who have religiously followed it since its inception. That doesn't mean it's impossible for someone who hasn't been there for every livestream or extra to enjoy it, but it definitely feels like if you missed that stuff then you're just having characters thrown at you with no explanation.
Really cool redesigns though!
17:16 WHY DID I GIGGLE AT THAT 😭😭😭
Like I tell my siblings, I love Hazbin Hotel, but I wouldn't defend it because it really is a mess 😭💀
I personally loved the show, but it did feel rushed. It was relatable to me at some points, tho it was funny as I thought jt would be. A "pet peeve" of mine is that we only see 'scary' Alastor when hes in his demon form. The redesigns always give him the scary vibe without needing to be in his demon form. I didn't like the scenes in Poison (maybe im a but sensitive) but it felt like it wasn't taking Angels abuse seriously. I also didn't like how quickly Lucifer and Charlie made up. Imo, it should've taken a while for Charlie to 'trust' Lucifer. But i do love the ahow, even with its faults.
fr they need filler episodes, it literally took me a few hours to finish the show
Immediately clicked this im so pumped for this, im glad youre saying this
Edit: i definitely want to see more of these rants! This was a very good take honestly
Sane
Same*
@@Thelucky_ducky so real
I can't express enough how much I've held back about this show because of how truly gross it makes me feel. Truly, ever since the pilot I got the worst vibes. The original pilot felt SO excessive in trying to be edgy and sexy to the point it was too much for me and even back then I remember finding Angeldust so uncomfortable and tragic. And shortly after I heard about the how terrible Vizie was and I was happy to remove their work from my brain. So when this show was dropped I tried to not look at it bc I knew I wouldn't like it but my best friend watched it and really enjoyed it and wanted to show it to me so I watched it with them and while I am a musical theater nerd and enjoy some of the songs and voices... the show we got really just put a giant spotlight on everything I clocked in the pilot.
100% like you said in this video Charlie and Vaggie are nonexistent. And frankly that can be said about most of the story and plot. It is extremely shallow and full of telling and not showing, just lots and lots of ideas for plot points that were just kinda thrown at the audience like wouldn't it be cool if this happened instead of actually fleshed out story beats. Like wouldn't it be cool if there was an episode where they went to a cannibal town. Just feels like someone had a sticky note with beats to hit but no one realized that's not the final step in writing. It's just a big nothing sandwich that makes you feel nothing for the characters, there's no real earned arcs or any stakes whatsoever. It's just stuff happening to people the show expects you to know and care about.
But Angel Dust is the worst part of it for me. His character and story feels like it highlights every issue with the show in bright red neon letters screaming DANGER. He is the *epitome* of a gay man written by a woman and its so fucking scary. His trauma and his sexuality are so OVERTLY romanticized and blown out of proportion that they are the only things we see about him and it is not even teetering, it is full send over the edge of fetishizing. His episode made me genuinely sick and I couldn't watch the screen. Even my friend who likes the show was cringing and looking at me like yeah I dont... like this song or this scene. Because it's quite literally repetitive scenes of the man getting r*ped?! And it's supposed to be cool and edgy and sexy??? Why the FUCK are we seeing that? Why is THAT being animated? How many people saw that and approved it like wtf HAPPENED to allow that?! I just DONT see how multiple people came up with that sequence and thought it was okay to put into the world. There is a fucking difference between positive sexuality and loving sex and your body and having a great time and getting fucking assaulted at work over and over and over again. He is LITERALLY singing about how it is HELLISH TORTURE for him and yet were getting it hammered into our eyes like it's desirable and appealing?! IT IS S U C H a stark contrast of a message and its exactly why Angel Dust feels so fucking exploited by this series because all he is is a sex object for the audience and story to objectify and its all hidden behind this lens of no he's just a sex positive icon like you can't be mad he loves sex and he's confident about it like YEAH BUT THATS NOT WHATS HAPPENING WHEN HES FORCED TO DO IT THATS NOT THE SAME ?!?!?!?!? And other than that episode every other scene of him is either being excessive flirty to the point of harassing people (like Husk) or genuinely feeling like shit about himself and nothing be done about it. The scene in the club where he stands up for himself is maybe the only time we see any growth in him but it truly feels forced bc nothing really builds up to it except shallow pushes from Husk which doesn't show real growth within Angel Dust just him being told what to do by someone less interested in hurting him like he feels SO tragic to me bc he represents a huge portion of gay media where gay men are just sexy trinkets fetishized by women for being so sad and sexy and abused and it's so fucking gross to not only see that put out into a proper series like this and in this fucking day and age but also by a grown ass woman and other grown ass people who should fucking know better.
I completely understand that people love Hazbin Hotel love the characters love Angel Dust but from a purely objective analysis of the series and its characters with a media literate lense it is just extremely badly written and unfortunately gets into a really dangerous problematic zone with its messages regarding Angel Dust. It treats abuse like a quirky sexy personality trait and then does absolutely nothing to actually truly address it or EVEN have a MESSAGE about it. It says NOTHING about what it's like to struggle in sex work or to be a victim of sexual abuse it has zero commentary the abuse is just an edgy little sticker plastered over a character meant to be ogled. So while I am glad to hear any gay men relate to and feel connected to Angel Dust, objectively his story is handled really fucking badly and leaves a horribly gross taste in my mouth. Poison is a good song and Angel Dust's va is amazing but I genuinely can't listen to that song bc it makes me see the episode again and it makes me feel sick.
Like another person said in these comments, this show feels like a bunch of people wanted to come off edgy and mature and then completely fell flat bc they ARENT remotely mature nor understand their subject matter more than a surface level and it comes across exactly like that.
And the ham fisted pairing of Husk and Angel Dust is one of the other red flags that really screams fetishized gay men to me. Like I just know if this show continues they will be forced together and it's like of ALL characters Angel Dust should not be in a relationship man's needs to WORK on himself but the way the Fandom eats up him and Husk or any other pairing for that matter kinda just furthers to me the audience this show was made for and idk not everything has to be a masterpiece but lately most people treat everything like one and it's like my brother in christ this is not it. Idk I have a lot of personal gripes with this show but I also have massive rage for a lot of the glaring issues I don't really see anyone talking about.
👏🏽…👏🏽..👏🏽.👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽😩 ENCORE!! THIS IS THE MOST DETAILED BRAIN ARRANGEMENT IVE EVER READ! AGREED WITH EVERFUCKINTHING YOU BETTA PREAAAACCHHH 🗣️🗣️🗣️💯 YOURE SO ARTICULATED WITH HOW YOU FEEL! ID LOVE TO WATCH IF YOU MAKE VIDEOS! Well said! And I used to wonder why the show had such a hard time getting it approved anywhere! It shouldn’t have! At least not in the way they wanted it to! There should have been changes or they should have just scrapped angel dusts arc entirely and reworked it for season 2 so it’s.. presentable! At the very least! But we got what we got and it was hot dooky garbage. If angels arc wasn’t shoehorned in I feel like at the least, we would get a “meh” show instead of the “dogshit” they tried to feed us. I feel so so bad for the people who watch this and think that this is legit and cool and accurate to life and go out there and act like these characters because it’s cool and romanticize things they shouldn’t and look at other people who have been through that same trauma in a disgusting way. I just hope the writing takes a u turn.
eh i...don't really agree with any of this, won't touch on the Viv drama stuff since that's a can of worms i have no interest in talking about, but for the other things, maybe it's differing interpretation, but i feel poison and Angle's episode is...full blown doing and saying the exact opposite, showing that ''Hey...this is BAD, this is WHY this is BAD'' the stuff with Poison in particular i feel hammers the point home that, no this is not a flashy glamy ''look how great this is'' situation, this is Angle's hell, and the ''glamour'' is...just his attempt to not have to think about it, even as it happens, never once did it appear to me as ''look how quirky this trait is lol'' to me, and specifically because of the imagery, it always appeared as saying ''this is appalling, this is horrible, this is not a good thing, this is not funny quirky, this is awful, painful and demeaning''. Also, again, maybe difference in interpretation, i didn't take any of the stuff in Poison as ''Angle is being full blown raped right now '' like it was very much implied with Addict, i saw it more as ''Everyone is being rough with him because they don't care enough to not be'' still very awful and very dark in it's own different way but...the episode did literally start with a warning specifically for that, that being said i can 100% see and understand how all that could be very uncomfortable to see and yeah no fair, it's fine to feel that way and it's...fine to not watch the show just because of that
@ariannebrodeur Sorry if I sound like a dick but this is so wrong lol, In my opinion at least. When addressing the angel dust stuff it’s exceedingly obvious that the point of poison is that he copes with his abuse by sexualizing himself, I don’t know how you can’t see that. It’s not a sex positive song. Parts of it are obviously his imagination, like that leaked part where he’s dancing in front of those giant screens. You can see on the screens what’s actually happening to him while his dancing is his imagination, him trying to cope. How tf is that not clear lol, do you want the series to tell and not show even more? And when it comes to telling, he straight up says he acts the way he does because if he has enough sex and does enough drugs then maybe Valentino while abandon him and leave him alone. And him harassing the staff isn’t supposed to be cute, it’s uncomfortable on purpose, and he stops doing it as much after episode 4 when he opens up to Husk.
It sounds like your own preconceived bias’ of the show are affecting of your perception of it, like the automatically assume the worst about it. It’s ok if you don’t like the writing, it’s not everyone’s cup of tea that’s fine, but trying to backhandedly insult fans of the show is messed up, especially since it’s very obvious that your basing it off your own lack of media literacy.
The parts of the show that are uncomfortable are meant to be that way, it’s not the writers thinly vailed fetish lmao
@OwONekko Said this elsewhere but the backhanded insults towards those who enjoy the show is silly, you’re assuming the audience is too dense to understand the message, while you’re the one who’s missing the fucking point. It’s so obvious that that the point of the song is to depict the horrors of abuse while also representing angels way of coping with it thru hypersexualizing himself. You’re also discrediting those who felt seen through the song, because there’s no one way to cope with such trauma. It’s kind of gross how dense you are when it comes to this show, it’s ok to not like it but don’t act like you’re some arbiter on what is acceptable in fiction.
6:36 is so real. like i didn’t even know charlie and vaggie were a couple till they kissed on THE LAST EPISODE 💀 they never did anything romantic or couply other than protect each other. that stuff could happen between any relationship of two characters. yes vaggie was overly protective of charlie but i genuinely thought it was bc they were friends and charlie gave vaggie a place to stay in the hotel.
The quick rendition you did of poison made me realize why it sounded so familiar... IT'S EXACTLY LIKE THAT DREAM MASK SONG 😭😭😭😭😭
but also this video is literally everything I've been THINKINNNG THANK YOU QUEEN THIS IS DELECTABLE
RIGHT HELP
That's what the poison is.....
*That's what the point of the poison is.....😔💔*
Wait really? I never spotted any similarity, can you point out because if so, it would be terrible 😭
To me it's an okay show.
I think it suffers from the problem I've seen almost every indie animated series in existance, where it feels like it was supposed to have a load more episodes but they were cut, because the authors didn't know how many they can pull off.
they were stuck with eight episodes
About the song loser baby… I don’t see it as people going, “Wah, I suck and I’m going to continue on sucking.” It’s about recognizing that you’re fucked up and excepting the situation you’re in is bad, and finding ways to get out of it with people who are in similar situations to you.
I’ll confess, I didn’t watch the show. I saw the first episode; I hated the writing and the songs were mid, but when I looked up the song “Loser baby” GOD. It was just too good, love the genre, the lyrics, the message. It’s great to have other ways people are able to cope with their trama represented; away from the, “Oh no honey, everything is going to be okay.” Just the brutal honesty approach Husk uses, it’s great.
I would also like to complain about how in the 4th episode, Husk says that he also gets abused by Alastor and instead of this changing Angel Dust's opinions on Alastor, he still likes him and smiles when Alastors found not dead. my problem with this is that we're hating on one abuser (val) but loving the other (alastor). Like you would think that if someone you loved was in almost the exact same position as you, you would hate the person that put them in said position. why is one abuse case important and the other isn't, Angels abuse is taken seriously while Husk's is almost the butt of the joke. Alastor is glorified by everyone and Val is shit on (usually, and for a good reason) and I'm not sure if it's because Val is more physically abusive while Alastor is more mentally abusive. Idk I hate it, it gives me the ick, but I don't see a lot of people talking about it :/
INSIGHTFUL 🗣️💯 YES YES YES! They have such a MASSIVE tone problem it gets ridiculous. It’s so many things I could have said in hindsight but I’d be here all diddly damn day 😭😭 overall I feel like it’s saying it’s “trying” to be real about these subjects but the shitty character lore overrides everything. I feel like the writer doesn’t know how these things actually are so they can’t write it in the respectful tone it needs to be in. It lacks experience in life, writing, and just comes off as immature.
I honestly realllyyy don't like the mindset fans have that you can't criticize this show because its an achievement for indie animation. Like, two things can be true at once, this can be monumental for indie animation while also having a slew of really bad issues. And also solely basing indie animation's worthiness for existing based on when a media conglomerate picks it up is a depressing interpretation. Indie is alive and real and doing okay without company intervention, and in fact sometimes companies buying shows out has actually been very bad for shows. Let's be a little more nuanced and stop acting like this show being a success story means its flawless.
charlie's flaws are her being overly trusting, seeing the best in everyone, always having everything be directly her fault and feeling like she's constantly inadequate if she can't help others
lucifer also has severe depression, he SAID that, the daddy issues are from him constantly isolating and not wanting to do anything
all the calls of him being "bored" or him forgetting things about charlie or him wanting charlie to handle important meetings or things
I agree Charlie's flaws are a little more than just quirks I admit. But LUCIFER! Yea he SAYS he had depression but the story I felt didn't really convey that yk. We just saw him once in a room making ducks. Which depression oftentimes comes with a loss of intrest. It just came off as this guy is just avoiding his kid to make ducks all day behavior 🤣 I wish they would have shown more of him and why he's like that instead of him just saying it
@@OwONekko I think it'sore show don't tell than you think
Every time Lucifer is mentioned by Charlie or the others, he's described like a recluse, avoiding all his responsibilities and putting them on Charlie. He's terrified of heaven with the way he talks and looks when it's brought up in conversation. Every time he even looks at the family portraits, he WINCES. He feels guilty. When I was depressed, I desperately sought any happiness when I had energy, which could explain his heavy reliance on making rubber ducks, only for him to toss them away like they're inadequate even though they were really cool. Idk, I guess I'm more in to looking for context clues when someone outright says something. There is a lot of tell don't show, but that just makes me look for all the show don't tell. Like Alastor and Zestiel being a horrific Eldritch threat when they're just walking down the street to Carmines. EVERYONE was horrified as they walked past. Even then, I think shows nowadays are trying TOO HARD to do a lot of show don't tell. I hate having to have to look for all the background details or worse yet, look at a WIKI page for information. A quick, snappy show where I can look for details on a second viewing was a nice change of pace.
@@OwONekkoit might come down to experience and perspective. When I saw that scene, I immediately picked up depression vibes despite completely missing him literally saying “take that depression” in first watch lol. But seeing a hoard of the one thing that still sparks his interest while shut off from everyone else, the zoning out and forgetfulness, the joke about falling off the roof. I saw that and I saw myself in him. I think those were actually good show don’t tell moments that might have just been misinterpreted
@@OwONekkoagain girl it’s the first season, what do you expect?
coming from someone who loved the show like every second of it (unfortunately I am an enjoyer of random musical numbers) I can totally respect your overview and opinions on it. it did feel a little rushed in certain aspects that is true, but I don’t think you quite hit the nail in the coffin for “Loser, Baby”. I wouldn’t say Husk is singing that to support or push Angel Dust into self destruction, but more so offering him some solace in his situation because if anyone knows how shitty things can be once you’ve sold your soul, it’s Husk. It basically boils down to “hey your life IS shit but so is mine, I understand you, i’ve been and still am where you are. So how’s about we both ride this shitty rollercoaster together?” He’s not giving him any false hope or empty affirmations, he’s being real with him, and offering an understanding and friendly hand. And that’s why Loser, Baby hits so hard imo lmao.
PS. LOVE your redesigns ‼️
From a lot of the criticisms I’ve seen. I think this show being a musical is kind of to its disadvantage. Don’t get me wrong, the songs are great and big bops, but the songs are taking up time for character development. Like instead of songs we could have flashbacks or more interactions. Poison is a good example cause we see how Val treats Angel then he sings about how bad it is. If that was cut then we could have an interaction with Vaggie being mad at Angel for yelling at Charlie or even Angel being dismissive of Charlie when he gets back to the hotel. Idk again I love the songs but songs in a 11 minute episodes are gonna take up time if they’re not short. Time that’s valuable, especially in an animated series
Also songs can be interpreted in like a million different ways, not direct words. I think the songs are gonna have people see the characters in a million different ways, which can drastically change how people react to them. Like I thought Husk was kind of being a bit of a jerk calling Angel a loser after he reveals heavy stuff about his trauma while others saw him as a great guy who told Angel what he needs to hear. Idk it’s just food for thought
I FUCKING LOVE UR CHARLIE REDESIGN OMLLL1!!! i love all of these designs tbh like charlies feels so fucking adorable but also like a semi-call back to her father because, from what I understand, hell is like supposed to be a circus and Lucifer was designed to look like a ringmaster (whether or not its a good design....lmao) but charlie seriously looks like a ringmaster a bit and a adorable one at that!! THESE DESIGNS ARE SO GOOD RHGHRHG I LOVE ANGELDUSTS TOOOO
also you are spot on 1000000% with ur points like. im aware that there some points they tried to make with the show, but the messages they portrayed with certain things (loser baby, poison, being expected to care for characters etc.), just does not hit how its "supposed to" unless you are aware of the creators own words and social media, which should NOT be a requirement to indulge in anything.
your opinions were what I wanted to say this whole time bro 😭😭 and one thing about Charlie I also find annoying or strange myself is that *she’s the main character* but.. she barely has screen time or lore, we just know “rehab hotel, daddy issues and woman kisser” and it’s so disappointing
can i just say this? you can make characters swear like crazy but why do the characters who lived in the 30s or are LITERALLY FROM HEAVEN SWEAR. they do NOT need to do that.
That's why the "it takes place in hell" excuse always gets on my nerves cuz like the ones in heaven swear too. That's not a valid argument.
I’m glad you said this cuz I was in a chat room and someone was telling me that Angel Dust’s character made them feel like they didn’t want to change and that they were okay with their flaws (they went into a lot of detail about mental health struggles) and it’s like friend you should strive to better yourself. The rot might be comfortable, but there is better out there you just gotta work to go find it.
Just adding this bc many people aren’t informed: the show is for 16+ except episode 4
This is going to be a huge rant so I am SO sorry for this in advance
I agree with certain points, and I appreciate that you told your perspective/take on things. While I feel you misinterpreted Poison and Loser Baby, I agree with a lot of your other points. Like many others, the Pilot drew me in and I deep dived into the lore. Looking at past livestreams official comic pages that came out, and past character details. I was then ensnared by the fanon content. Mostly the human AU's for when the entire cast was alive. I thought we would get more references to the life before as well as interesting twist on mythology like we see in Helluva boss. So, when we got the entire season, it felt.....off? I genuinely can't put my finger on it but things didn't feel right. While I felt for Angel and his story, I never really felt anything else for anyone. But that also is a pacing issue, and that stems from Amazon only giving them 8 episodes to work with. But then I feel it could've been extended. Sure, it got the okay for a season 2 and it's in production rn, but I feel the season finale could have been a cliffhanger w/ the portal to heaven opening and everyone getting ready for battle. The pacing just really throws thing off, and the characters doing reminders of how much time has passed to keep you in track w/ the time jumps is jarring.
Onto the characters, I wholeheartedly agree with you about Vaggie. Now, I understand established relationships and all. Personally, I like seeing characters develop crushes/falling in love stories but having an established one could have been interesting. I say COULD'VE because Vaggie has like NO character development. Like, name 5-character traits she has beside being Charlie's girlfriend. All we see from her is that she's protective of Charlie and wants to help see her dream through. Her secret of being and an angel, while somewhat surprising, is kinda boring?? Like personally, she's a very uninteresting character to me. I find nifty, hell SUSAN to be more interesting to me than Vaggie. It's why as cute as chaggie is, I personally don't ship it. No hate to the shippers or anything, but I genuinely don't feel anything towards them.
Charlie, I honestly like and can understand. She's naive and has and the angel side view of things. It's an interesting concept, especially for her being the Princess of Hell IN hell. I feel she works. But I feel you are right about her character flaws, or lack of them. I feel her getting into people's business works as both a quirk and flaw. She wants to help everyone with their own problems and solve everything. She's optimistic to the point it IS a flaw. Her sticking her nose into things, no matter how well intentioned, is very dangerous. For her and the people she's trying to help. She takes after Lucifer, for being a dreamer and also Lilith because her mother cared for her kingdom/subjects. As heir, and just having her personality in general, she feels obligated to take care of her people and do the best that she can. While it IS hell and many people down there DESERVE to be there, there are characters that GENUINELY don't deserve to be there. Redemption in Hell is an interesting concept, but I feel it wasn't shown properly. Am I glad Sir Pentious is redeemed and in Heaven? Absolutely! But I feel it was cheap in a way. He hasn't done anything that would PROVE he needed to BE in Hell and his redemption felt way too subtle. It was nice seeing it in the background as we explored Angel character arc, but I wished we had more time to see it develop as if felt he didn't need to do much to be redeemed in the first place.
I don't really have a problem w/ Husk, Alastor, and Niffty. I like the other characters we're introduced to as well, ESPECIALLY Lucifer. I just wish we could have seen more from them and the effect's they have on everything around them.
So that was my rant! Again, apologies for this, especially because it's probably chicken scratch/makes no sense. TDLR: My gripes w/ characters, pacing, redemption.
This hit the nail on the head for EVERYTHING! 😭 ugh that portal opening cliffhanger would have kept me on my toes FOR SURE! Maybe now that they know they have more than a season to work with, they'll take the criticisms of now and use then to their advantage! 👊🏽💖
I also see now I may have been a bit too harsh on Charlie after seeing your view now! You're right, they totally can be both a quirk as well as a flaw! I just wish i saw that im moooree "realistic" ways maybe. Cuz she had no business setting that mans work place on fire like that like mam get out lmao 😭😭 byt yeah i think she AIGHT now 😂🤣 Charlie may get alot more to her next season for sure though! Can't wait to see!! 😎💖 your points are VALID!! PREACH!
@OwONekko I feel like that would've been the PERFECT way to finish season 1 and start season 2. The cliffhanger would've drawn people in, kept them on the edge of their seats, wanting more. Especially when we've seen HB fight scenes, it would have been the anticipation of starting off the season with the big fight. If not the immediate fight, we could've gotten flashes of the aftermath, Charlie gripping keekee, Vaggie, or Lucifer while looking at the remains of the hotel before slingshotting us into the actual battle that took place. That would have been really cool!
I hope they DO take the criticisms in stride and allow for the characters to develop as well as world build. I want to see more of how the lives the damned have lived affected them in the afterlife and how those who CHOSE to repent actually grow and take steps to improve themselves. And that's only for those that ACTUALLY deserve it, obviously. (Cause I already know someone gonna twist my words and say, "So you think rapist and pedos can be redeemed?")
Ah, you're good! I just personally saw quite a bit of her from when I was a child in her. Wanting to be friends with everyone, fix things with hugs and smiles, and just be there for everyone. Up until I realized not everyone deserves it and became far more aware of human nature. I feel she's not going going to change much, especially as I feel Charlie KNOWS not everyone is a good person, but she's trying to be willfully blind in the hope that they WILL chose to be better. But I DO hope we get to see more character development from her.
The Valentino scene with the fire genuinely scared me because I already knew what was going to happen and how it was going to reflect on Angel. At first, I was angry, but it quickly simmered out because I knew she was just trying to help. Also, I blame that electrical socket cause who thought that was a good idea 😭 It was bound to happen, it just unfortunately had to be our resident rainbows and goodwill princess whilst trying to be there for a friend/patient.
Just as your points were valid! Everyone's got a different perspective on things and its videos + comments like these where we all can exchange thoughts and opinions on subject matters that allow actual conversations to be had! Thank you for reading my comment and having this lovely convo with me! It's always so refreshing to just talk, swap thoughts, and have an ACTUAL conversation without anything getting heated. Can't wait to see more from you! Btw, I REALLY liked your Charlie and Vaggie redesigns!
I agree with your points! I do have my own insight on Vaggie though, granted, most of it is speculation.
Vaggie and the other Exorcists feel like they were made in heaven. With how identical(at least with masks on) it feels like they were mass produced specifically for the purpose of extermination.
Just look at Vaggie and Lute and what they do in the story. They exist to literally follow one person around and help them. When Vaggie went to Hell, it felt to me like she just ended up following someone else, and happened to fall in love with said person.
Lute exists to be Adam's follower, his hype woman. She has absolutely nothing to her character outside of Adam besides the rampant demon hatred. (And probably love for him too)
Vaggie feels the same way, with her one and only goal to make Charlie's dream come true, and when she can't it makes her feel worthless.
"If I can't help you then what's the point of me?" THAT line feels like Viv knows it's a flaw, and that it's setting up Vaggie's codependency on Charlie, and will be a issue to address later(because it obviously wasn't fixed in the first season).
Anyway, that's the end of my rant on Vaggie. Any thoughts?
I like this rant! Especially your breakdown of Charlie and her actual flaws, a lot more people than I thought missed them.
I also feel like ranting about Vaggie a little, as I'm pretty sure her lack of traits is SUPPOSED to be a flaw.
Vaggie's one goal in life is to help Charlie achiver her dream, to help her with any and everything. She didn't bother to make any other friends during her time with Charlie(3 years if I recall), she doesn't have any strong passions or interests outside of fighting (and even then that's taken a backseat), like she doesn't even have a hobby.
Then look at Lute and what she does. Outside of her rampant hate for demonkind, just like Vaggie she feels like a mere follower to Adam. She practically exists to be his hype man and nothing more.
It feels to me like the exorcists were created(specifically manufactured), hence why they all look so similar, to follow whoever is leading them and be purposeless blank slates.
When Vaggie was left in hell she didn't change at all, she just found someone else to follow and eventually fall in love with. (Like Lute possibly did with Adam)
"If I can't help you then what's the point of me?" THAT line makes me feel like Viv knows very well that Vaggie's lack of self is a flaw to be solved later.
I can totally see a parallel in the between Vaggie and Lute, what with Lute losing the person she followed.
the show suffers from a hardcore case of having to cram a ton of actually complex topics into a very small amount of episodes! i still believe that if amazon gave HH more episodes it genuinely could have treated these topics with more respect! sadly the show had to rush, but thats no excuse for the poor execution of what we got!
Also tell me why most of the original character designs felt like they let a ten year old go wild with gatcha life 💀
Love your version of Charlie, this series really needs more body types.
Oh my goshhh finally someone said something bout this flaws, like bro it was rushed. To start my rant this goofy ahh line when Emily said, "Demon or not, there is no reason to be doing this to *innocent* souls.". **LIKE GIRL! THEY ARE IN HELL BECAUSE THEY WERE HORRIBLE PEOPLE!** . People who are in hell obviously did something wrong like I don't know killed somebody or was in the mafia, I dont know but Emily of all people should know that, and it bugs me that seraph didnt even bring that up. And bro, there was no character development, and a lot of the characters felt like they were just there most of the time. The times when a character was supposed to get character development it didn't feel deserved at all because we didn't get time to know any of the characters at all. For example theres alot of alastor just being "ohoho yes im stronger and smarter than everyone and I love seeing people fail" or when vaggie told everyone at the hotel they could leave if they wanted to because Vaggie and charlie failed at redeeming them, then later on we find out they stayed to protect the hotel it was just like "yea ok they stayed cool". Then theres angel dusts mental breakdown that felt like it was just out of the blue because we never got to see angel ever struggle with how he felt with his job it felt like he randomly just got upset. Then the things that got revealed WAY TO EARLY like husker being an overlord or alastor being revealed to being owned by somebody, you get my point. The fact that in 8 episodes was 6 months was crazy, like when charlie was distressed that she didnt want angel to go do his job because it was getting close to the extermination I was mad confused at how fast time was going.
Emily's line comes from the fact that no one knows what gets someone into Heaven, and her assuming that there's probably good people who ended up in Hell as a result lol.
@@47ratsinahoodie Ah I see you, I don't know I feel like my point still stands though
@@KnightDog145 I mean, sorta? Obviously most of the people in Hell are probably bad but it's logical to assume that some good or decent people would've ended up there as a result of no one knowing whether you actually need to be a good person to get into Heaven.
@@KnightDog145 It doesn’t though? Explicitly *because* of the point made in their comment? Like even if we go by Christian standards, there’s a lot of things that supposedly get you sent to hell and about half of them are bullshit, not serious enough to justify *eternal damnation and mass extermination* , or both.
The fact that what qualifies as “a sinner” is so vague and subject to change irl is what crops up questions like Emily’s irl too, and is what seems to be the root of the question being asked *within* the show. The execution was a bit too “friendship is magic” imo, but the core of the question being asked is a valid one, because the only way one single person spearheading what qualifies as bad holds legitimate weight is if that person is fundamentally a paragon of true neutrality at their core, and if they’re not…
STOP, WHYD YOU MAKE ANGEL DUST LOOK HOTTER? (ALSO YES, I AGREE WITH *ALL* OF THIS ISTG)
Not gonna lie, I see just about all your views and I here you out. For me I feel like I take different views. For example, I understand that you don't like how Angel Dust's character was so sexually exaggerated but I have seen/heard people who exaggerate a hated part of them to gain the power they lost. Also the song "Loser, baby" isn't about how people in abusive situations are losers, but about how people in these terrible situations are not alone in their struggles (that's how I see it anyway). These are just my ideas/views that I wish for you to here me out on. Especially since this vid kinda hurt to watch since I love these characters so much, but I'll get over it.
Over all, love the video. I'm see all your views and I hope you see mine. Also please make more rant videos these are really cool to see with the amount of passion you show.
(Sorry for the long post)❤❤❤