Can a silencer make a Sniper Rifle more accurate?
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- Опубликовано: 5 июл 2024
- Do silencers make rifles more or less accurate? It depends we have seen them do both for a variety of reasons. Join me for the Journey I took trying to find the best silencer in the world but found it didn't exist so we ended up developing our DTSS silencers and learn why we built them the way we did.
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At Desert Tech we love firearms innovation, we are always going against the grain and bypassing traditional designs. We are always doing amazing and fun stuff on the range and hope you enjoy this video!
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Outstanding! Not merely the technical analysis and achievement but the fact that you're willing to share it while being respective of previously established working relationships.
Thanks for being on board, I'm glad you are enjoying our journey!
the way this company is making their rifles with less moving parts and their 50 caliber rifle better and lighter than the rest of the companies and now suppressors, very good
Nick.. you're going above and beyond in the way you sell the science behind your product. I do a similar thing with the way I run my farm in Singapore, and it's validating to see a business owner geek out over the process that goes into the product. Especially one who's more successful than me :p
Thanks!
Y'alls process is just superior. I feel like you and vortex are the future.
Vortex is awesome and always pushing the envelope so i appreciate the compliment for sure!
I haven't gotten 1 Moa yet in my 308 Mdrx yet but really close @ 1.2moa 5 shot groups (1.4moa 10 shot in my video shorts if you want receipts).
But I will say adding a Huxwrks supressor (something I see on your semi autos frequently) really helped out with barrel harmonics in my Mdrx.
Certainly made it shoot more consistent,which was a problem I was seeing before adding the supressor.
Great video
We see the same improvements on accuracy with the Huxworks can. The DTSS improves accuracy more than the huxworks but it is too gassy for the autoloaders.
I really like what you guys are doing and how well you communicate it with us.
Thanks!
A lot of interesting points raised here, which bring to mind a few more questions. What is it about welds that negatively affect heat? Is it differing thickness / location that causes different heat dispersion? And/or does the heat introduced during the welding process change the thermal properties of the host metal? Additionally, does the differing rate of thermal expansion mean that multi-metal suppressors (like an inconel blast baffle with a titanium body) will always be less accurate/repeatable than single-metal options? The gas stripping also has interesting implications for rifles with questionable concentricity, or use of over-bore do-all cans (like using something with a .46 bore on a smaller .22~ cal.) Missed opportunities for accuracy can be everywhere!
I am not a professional welding guru so my response is general observations, maybe someone with more knowledge can chime in here too. For sure inconsistencies in thickness of welding did cause issues. I also I think if the temperature during the welding is inconsistent as the weld is applied would be a problem too. I am not sure if any silencer companies do a stress relieving oven step after welding but I would be very curious to see if that fixes it.
I had been lucky enough to take part in a lot of the testing at Desert Tech, hopefully Nick is good with me responding. My observations on a lot of the suppressors on the market that are welded is this. The exact location, thickness and "depth" of the welds can only be controlled so much. When you start heating them up, the thermal expansion is going to vary from suppressor to suppressor as well as how fast they heat up, depending on rate of fire. This in turn, varies the expansion and inconsistencies that we were seeing in the impact shift. Nick touched on that in the video, it sometimes took 15 rounds for a specific suppressor to "settle" in. It had to come to full temp to give the best results the suppressor was capable of.
@@russwallis3273 kind of what I thought but very cool you do that kind of testing and verified it. It never ceases to amaze how the little things add up. Glad you guys are taking the industry to the next level, and thanks for sharing here!
@@ParrotTactical Well, to be honest, I worked there for many years. Nick is a good friend and a wealth of knowledge. All the targets you see with R.Wallis at the bottom are shot by me. I'm stoked to see DT take advantage of a platform and tell the story behind the product.
Late in coming. But hopefully some of this information is found useful.
First, a disclaimer. I haven't welded for over a decade since high school. However, many of the lessons still stick with me to this day. But it may also have been corrupted over time. Corrections by an active welder are welcome.
Now, onto the science of welding. Welding does 2 things to do a proper bind, first it has an application of intense heat. Second, it often adds a filler.
Lets start with the filler. The filler is used since you are often trying to fill a gap. unless the material is touching and you are using specific techniques, you will find that not enough material will be available to accomplish the job. Yes, I know you can do TIG welding without filler, but I had rarely went without as blowing out the material was a real potential with some of my jobs without it. However, it also changes the composition of the weld, and it takes very little change to have a different thermal threshold with different expansion and contraction rates.
Then you have the heat factor, which I think would have the greatest impact for what he is talking about. Heat is needed to mix the material to be bound together. The Heat needed to bind the material would change the tempering of the material used. Creating a harder, more brittle zone around the weld. This becomes resistant to thermal contraction and expansion. This increased heat can also makes metal more susceptible to elements in the air. Thereby causing issues with composition and dirty welds. Proper noble gas shielding is a big thing for exactly that reason. But overall, this is why things such as TIG welding may be exceptional for clean welds, but still have breaks along side the welds when under heavy stress. The heat treatment from the weld itself changes the tempering and thereby compositional structure alignment of the material molecules.
Combined this additional heat treatment would cause increased strength of the material that is different from the rest of the material. It's why common break areas are around welds and not typically the welds themselves. The material isn't as strong as the weld, which makes it more likely for the material to separate from the weld as the softer material expands and contracts with the temperatures, and the welds themselves do so at a lesser degree.
TL:DR; Welds change tempering, which effects how resistant to thermal expansion and contraction a given material is after being welded. It can also change material or alloy composition, causing changes to thermal expansion and contraction characteristics.
Great Video, I’ve been looking for a suppressor that has these issues addressed. Absolutely getting the DTSS, love that it’s titanium.
Thank y’all for pursuing excellence.
Your welcome, thanks for joining us for the story of our silencer development.
It would be interesting to see a video on the mdr design which prevents it from exploding with bore obstruction/overpressure. I know there's an old video, but I think it would be nice to see more details on how that works, since a "disavantage" of bullpups is an explosive right below your face, although some bullpups are designed to contain the explosion, some of traditional rifles are not, they would just throw shrapnel everywhere.
Here you go. ruclips.net/video/wROhdNrD9A4/видео.html
@@DesertTechUT Thank you, I haven't seen this before, it even included the drop test, which a lot of people doesn't even think or care about it.
Thanks for these stories - I learned plenty but specifically how powder load and harmonic influence accuracy.
Your very welcome! We spend $100K+ per year doing testing and development and it puts us in a position to learn things most people can afford to do so I'm happy to share the knowledge we gain along the way!
I have Daniel Defense DD5 V5 20’’ 6.5 Creedmoor. Even as a Semi-Auto it shoots .5MOA with an Energetic Armament Vox S suppressor. I don’t know if it made my rifle more accurate but it’s extremely accurate with it attached via direct thread.
I've heard so many times in my life from older people that the suppressors actually improve accuracy; and until very recently I thought it was just another urban myth, I mean, with my immature, young common knowledge I just assumed it could never improve accuracy, only worsen. Now this is the final nail to my coffin of ignorance; they were actually right, and I was wrong.
Thank you for testing this subject, you just proved one of the most debated topic with science and proof. Future gun generations will thank you.
thanks and you're welcome!
My god, this is a great lecture and with added statistics and graphs it could actually have had paid-access! Also I am subscribed to Konstantin Konev, heard a lot of good words from him about YOUR company and your participation on NGSW. I think it would be great if you make a video-collaboration together on which you could discuss some hot topics about gun industry in US or NGSW-program!
Hi from Ukraine! Thank you guys if you help my people in some ways (especially if you provide some of your creations to my soldiers)!
Konstantin used to work for me for a short time. He is a good man and very knowledgable! Ukraine is actually using our SRS & HTI rifles. :D
@@DesertTechUT yeah, it is thanks to him I explored your channel. Hope that after this degenerate Camala-Biden rulership will be gone, you guys will receive a decent military foreign contracts) Think that you are a wrongfully underestimated munition producer, I beg you a pardon and wish greater success)
Thanks for another great video. Very informative, cheers.
I like this channel more than normal, can't put my finger on exactly why though
Maybe its cuz I gained too much weight this last year and my rolly polly figure amuses people more. LOL jk
Genuine, open and honest?
The antithesis to EXTREME ALPHA GUNTUBER/ INFLUENCER.
Great job Thank you. I'm lucky enough to have one of the first SRS in 338lm and 308 .
Right on
So what is interesting is that you picked up ITs the baffle stack & not the weight as the cause , so if you looked at the nielsen devices made to allow tilting barrel pistols to cycle/work , it was believed that it was the extra weight , that stopped them cycling properly . I spoke to a suppressor designer in NZ years ago, and he said NO , it was how good the baffles where , and that was the cause of the cycling issues , the better the baffles where , the bigger the problem .
I believe it.
Why not put some R&D into a muzzle device that doesn't require a $200. Tax stamp that is budget priced, and does everything it needs to do. such blast forward, compensates, flash hider, and ultra lightweight. say for a price range under $49.99!
Is your DTSS suppressor low backpressure? Or is it purely optimized for the most accuracy on a bolt gun?
No it is not low back pressure. It was designed for bolt action precision work. It works on auto loading rifles that have adjustable gas blocks but i wouldn’t recommend it on non adjustable gas rifles.
Years ago Winchester came out with the BOSS.
If I was trying to make a sniper silencer, I would look at improving the harmonics or making them adjustable, see how the bullet exiting a bearing surface and coming into a stabilized environment like a silencer and see if there is a way to optimize it, and barrels for accuracy with a silencer/possibly also without. Sounds like you were really looking at these even if you haven't considered and adjustable system.
Have you looked at something like the boss, or even the friction weights they used at one time like on baseball bats when you're going to losen up? A weight whether adjustable or not, could also always be removed before or after the silencer was removed. Possibly an adjustable weight on the, barrel, muzzle device, suppressor, or some combination there of.
My other thought on harmonics and improving accuracy. You have to visualize harmonics continuing past the bearing surface of the barrel and into the suppressor so you don't have just terminus harmonics imparting on a bullet, and that should be a plus for any increased accuracy designs.
No we haven’t. Generally military doesn’t like adjustments because troops with change it up and mess things up unintentionally. Science wise I think it is a good idea to tinker with though.
Hey Nick,
Have you tested Elite Iron on the HTI platform in the past?
If you have, what were those results on each caliber?
Yes we partnered with them and that is the big bore can we sell for our 375 and 408 rifles
Any chance you might develop a standard thread to SI QD adaptor for the MDRx/WLVRN? That design might be better than the others to avoid loosening and would synergize with the DT muzzle devices.
Possibly in the future, we have considered this but no active projects are ongoing to pursue this.
The correct answer to your question is YES! Good god man, the pondering of so many engineering anomalies will cause a man to loose sleep.
Great vid mate, subbed
Much appreciated!
did you guys do any testing on integral style suppressors? id be really curious as to how they stack up against normal suppressors for improving/worsening accuracy
Very interesting and informative. Well done.
Glad you enjoyed it!
I like the info you're putting out! Very informative as opposed to other companies! Subscribing as of now! Recommendations for a 6.5 PRC ? Possibly something in FDE? As barrel is finished in a Bronze cerakote! It is a Franchi Momentum Elite. 👍
Love these videos.
Thanks!
very interesting
what about carbon lock?
some supressors will hella stuck on threads after long shooting sessions
You need to have a relief cut in front of the threads and have plenty of clearance between the outside diameter of the brake and inside diameter of the can. The first prototype cans suffered from that very issue. We clearanced it on the production DTSS cans and it resolved it
Shooters are the "ACCURATE" part of the equation; equipment (including the SUPPRESSOR) provide the measure of "PRECISION".
Why not list the test results by manufacture? I use two different companies suppressors on my MDRX.
The results are in chicken scratch written on the pictured targets. 😃
How does the DTSS compare to the Huxwrx? Is one noticeably more accurate, consistent, or durable?
DTSS is a bit more accurate but has higher back pressure but that doesn’t really matter on a bolt gun. So semi go huxworks, bolt gun go DTSS.
@@DesertTechUT Would you happen to have the accuracy difference in MOA between the DTSS and Hux? Thank you!
Maybe?
You should name the products you tested for your findings. This helps the community and the producer in question have better products. This whole "I'm not going to name them" bullshit needs to stop. The truth will set us free. Be honest, open, and most importantly: constructive with your criticism based on what you as a precision ELR rifle company have found
Surefire, AAC were the QD suppressors that hurt accuracy, the photos show the results with those cans with my chicken scratch notes. Thunderbeast and AWC were both tested and both had wandering zeros that took 10+ rounds to settle down and start grouping.
Your sight sells the huxwrx can. I’m assuming you approve.
Yes we do!
Titanium huh?
Stop saying silencers! SUPPRESSORS! 😂
The original patent from Maxim is published as silencer. Hard to argue with that - it is right there in print. Or maybe you were being silly and I couldn't tell from the text.
The legal name is Silencers so don't get your panties twisted too tight, I didn't name them thank the BATF for that one. :)
This guy can't make up his mind and keeps calling it a silencer and a suppressor, and they are suppressors, not a silencer!
Tell the BATF that. lol
@archangel20031 Well, according to Maxim’s patent they are called silencers. In reality it doesn’t matter if you refer to them as silencers or suppressors, colloquially both terms mean the same thing. It’s like calling a car an automobile, a truck a pickup, a gun a firearm, or a scope an optic.
Hey so could you stop making silencer videos and start fixing all the problems your MDRx customers are having?
If you are having an issue with your MDR please contact our customer service line and we will process it under warranty. 801-975-7272
Hi DT,
I use the Archeron 4D Steel Supressor for my/your MDRX 300BLK! The supressor is overbarrel and great and improves accurency without a change of the targetpoint!
But i love your Mantis Handguard and so i need an normal supressor to use it😅. Interesting that your Titanium supressor is able to improve accurancy, in my opinion Titanium ist the best Material and i love my svemco Pure Titanium for my HK MR 308 A3❤!
But now my question, it is possible for the Sabertooth or WLVRN to use Titanium insteed of steel on the chassy too reduce the weight (i know thw WLVRN is now only 3,3kg and that is awesome), next question are you able to produce an systhem on the buttstock to reduce the felt recoil for the .308?
I know the systhem on the fhe good old FG 42 for the 8x57 and it is possible to reduce felt recoil, mayby you can use new materials or plates with an non newtowns paste or kristals or an neodyme systhem insteed of rubber😮!
Ps i love the MDRX/WLVRN Family, this is an awesome gun an in my opinion, gemany make a mistake to by the HK 416A8 as next standart rifle, they should by your Saberthooth 16inc, and the WLVRN in 20inc in .308 with supressors and Mantis Handguard combined with an 1-8x24 or 1-8x30 and build there by HK in germany.
DT is a real future weapons company❤
Aluminum and Titanium both can work well for cans as long as you ensure the blast baffle pressure area is strong enough and as long as you can mitigate excessive heat away. Titanium does tend to spark flash so if you want the best low visible signature inconel or steel would help with that but you double the suppressor weight too. I haven't tried a silencer with two different materials in it but I would worry that you would eventually have play between them an kill your accuracy. That is just theory though and someone may have already solved that problem.
Have you tested the specters CAT cans for your criteria
No