2023 Toyota GR86 Track Review - Better Than Its Subaru Twin?
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- If you're torn between the Toyota GR86 and Subaru BRZ as your track toy, let's discuss some of the reasons why you might pick one over the other.
Shout-out to the kind folks at MAMA who organized the 2023 Spring Rally at Road America.
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Email me if you'd like me to review your car: zygrene@gmail.com
Ooh, bad timing with this vid... lol
holy shit, yet another failure and this time it's transmission? I really should forget about the GR86 lol
I filmed this weeks before the podcast about engine failures 😂
@@brzo. 15 failures, 14056 sold gr86 and brz combined. Miata? I couldn't find a single report of a blown engine (I searched for 5 minutes I admit) out of 76170 sold in the US only. I only have sex to make my wife pregnant. It's sad that that the first risk of sex that came to your mind is pregnancy and not stds. Very sad. Many such cases.
@@brzo.damn so salty. are you from the GR86 subreddit as well? 😂
@@Zygrene I'm guessing you drove several cars at the same event awhile back? Its just so ironic releasing it this week, you are going to get sooo many troll comments now :X
Track Approved ❌ Nascar Approved ✅
😂 left all day
I'm completely dead
The issue with engine failure seems to be due to severe oil pressure drops under hard lateral acceleration on right hand turns. It is much worse on cars with modified suspension and sticky tires due to the higher lateral loads. There are a couple of recent videos where folks recorded oil pressure while on track and it looked pretty conclusive IMO. They clearly show repeated oil pressure drops well below 30 PSI with the engine at or near redline. They showed it on multiple cars with different tire/suspension setups, it was well done and it clearly shows this is a very real problem.
One guy installed a Tomei oil pan baffle and he says that keeps oil pressure from ever going below 60 PSI on track, and he runs full Hoosier slicks so... He also runs a much thicker oil I believe he said 5w40, which is also a no brainer for track work. After the data I saw, I would not track this car without a heavier oil and some sort of baffle system in the oil pan.
There could be other issues, but preventing severe drops in oil pressure under heavy load is a really good starting point. They even tested the older version car against the new 2022 version with the bigger engine and while the old car also had some oil pressure drop under hard cornering, it was much less and for far short times so... Seems like a smoking gun IMO.
Toyota and Subaru are planning to sell this car for a long time, I wonder if they will ever address this issue with a facelift or something
@@rodrigoascenso4660needs to be more than a facelift - needs to be a recall.
@@rodrigoascenso4660 I guess it kind of depends. Have all the engine failures been on track cars only? And were they modified track cars? I know at least some were, perhaps all?
If that is the case then it really isn't a design flaw if the car is reliable in stock form and only fails when it is modified and used beyond the factory design. If that is in fact the case (and I don't know for sure if that is true), then I would say no. Just like the stock brakes don't hold up well to hard track use and you need to at least switch pads and fluid. Then adding a baffle, oil cooler, and switching to a heavier oil is just what is required for serious track use. I don't see how you can blame the manufacturer and expect them to "fix it". This is a street car not a track car. It can survive limited track usage, but if you want to use it for heavy track use, then you need to make some modifications, I don't see anything wrong with that, do you?
Now if there are multiple engine failures from average street use, that is a different story. But somehow I doubt that is the case here.
where can i read about the guy that installed the Tomei oil pan? i’m about to take delivery of my BRZ in a month n would love to read more 🥴
@@censoredialogue ruclips.net/video/Ru_2uTozXNo/видео.html
Agreed with that sentiment. That is also why I ultimately chose a BRZ over the GR. I trust Subaru techs working on a Subaru engine more than toyota techs as well. I had a strictly street driven FRS with engine failure, and Toyota was not willing to work with me. And would not provide proof that I ever abused the car. It even escalated to Toyota Canada and they never budged. Made me swear off Toyota.
They also went on my youtube channel and said i was over revving the engine on one of my exhaust videos. “Bouncing it off the limiter”, when audibly i never even past 4k 😂. Heninger Toyota (Calgary) has ruined toyotas for me.
the subaru brz is lighter and faster than the toyota gr 86
GR86 is great! Ive only done 1 HPDE at NJMP in my 6AT, but its plenty fun for me and looking forward to grow with it as a driver
I got BRZ because GR86 had 3k in markup and I was able to order BRZ at invoice price with a short shifter. I would rather spend those 5k in getting ohlins and have better suspension setup.
Do you know when Ohlins is gonna have coilovers for this gen?
@@1Solace they already launched them for this gen, part # is SUS MP21S2, for some reason they removed it from their site though.
@@ruturaj47 No way, thanks bro!
Do you think it's possible to make the BRZ as tail happy as GR86 with just the suspension setup?
@@zydomason sway bars would still be different but I would take BRZ with ohlins over stock GR86 any day.
I wonder if an accusump and a baffled oil pan would help with the engine failure issues...
I like the looks of the GR86 and I do want my car to be more tail happy. But it's impossible to buy it in Europe anyway so I guess I'll just go with a miata instead.
Miata is a better sports car anyway. Only reason to get a GR86 is if you need space.
@@TT92348 The Miata is not a better sports car. The ND drives like ass
@@cs2294are you new to the channel? Zyg swears up and down by the Miata
@@TT92348 and drift I guess?
@@Blballerboy No. Anecdotally, I've driven 2 stock ND's. The suspension is way too soft and floaty. It feels terrible at any sort of actual pace. You can't tell what the car is doing underneath you
2:11 oil pressure drop there.
4:08 there it is again
Just kidding 😂😂😂
Thanks for the video. I always appreciate your honesty and obvious driving skills. Making small changes in handling is so easy and cheap. That's not even a consideration for me. I personally like the front end of the BRZ. It's a little more of a classic sports car look. But It's all personal preference. The thing I like better about the GR86 is the dash presentation. It's just better.
the subaru brz is lighter and faster than the toyota gr 86
I think the Gr86 also has a slightly different map for tq delivery. And agreed on oil and coolant temp actual readings. Hopefully someone savvy can program that option for the brz gauge cluster the future.
Love the BRZ/86. With all the talk about oil starvation, briefly thought about selling my BRZ. Quickly realized the only other choice is ND2 Miata and the thought of getting a slower car with softer suspension and less chassis rigidity/convertible top is hard to accept for how I use my car (predominantly track and canyon driving). Will be interesting if Honda brings out a new S2000 in 2024 as rumors are predicting, but I have to think it's going to be a hybrid/turbo setup if it even makes it to market.
From what I heard, Toyota is supposed to be using a Toyota made engine for future GR86 models.
@@RockinTheDub Yeah all signs pointing to the 1.6L turbo 3 from the GRC/GRY. Would prefer a high rpm NA engine, but am keeping an open mind.
@@you_can_fuck_your_own_ass_69 As long as the weight is between BRZ (2800 lbs) and Cayman (3100 lbs), thats fine by me.
The Miata is still superior on track. 500lbs lighter, doublewishbone suspenion, more reliable. Who cares if the stock suspenion is a little softer? You need upgraded suspenion in either car to be competitive. The ND2 is still dominating auto X.
@@jjchockeyIf by superior on track you mean slower then yes 😁. Friendly joking aside, I realized after I wrote that, ND2 owners might get offended. It’s a good car in its own right, but I just meant that for where and how I drive, it’s hard accepting a slower/softer car with less rollover protection. No offense intended, I like the Miata too.
EverydayDriver mentions a noticeable power delivery/torque curve between the GR86 and BRZ, but I've seen no other reviewers mention this. I take it you don't notice either, since it wasn't mentioned? Great video!
I haven't noticed it
There is a different pedal position (PPS) to throttle position (TPS) mapping in the two cars.
It’s an electronic throttle, so they program a PPS to TPS map that basically takes as input PPS and RPM and compute TPS as output. The GR86 is much more aggressive. In some RPM ranges, 40% PPS computes to 100% TPS. The BRZ is a little more linear. I suspect this is the reason why you’d perceive that there is a difference in how eager it feels.
Personally, I think the more linear mapping is better because it is easier to modulate your inputs.
I love my GR86! Thx for the videos Fenton! Even after camber bolts I wonder if I would prefer less under steer. I’m considering adjustable anti roll bars to play with the balance more as a stock plus street set up. Have you considered creating more oversteer on your BRZ? If the engine ever needs significant work, can I get a subaru dealer to do warranty work? 😅
I was considering sway bars to adjust the handling balance, but now I'm just trying not to blow the car up
the backwards headrest looooool
Can’t wait to see your review on the gr86 trueno edition
If I can get my hands on one!
Great driving! What a blast to drive!
I need you to drive my 23 BRZ with the single exit 11lb Noble Titanium exhaust! Its loud.
Exactly the video I'm looking for!!!!!! THANKS!
Interesting video, thank you ! My conclusion is that, either for track use or road, the BRZ is the better car ...
I’ll wait for the 3cylinder turbo 86 incoming from Toyota.
OMG the dealer part I feel that. The 2 Toyota dealers I've been to recently were so aloof and mean when I took my GR86 for recalibrating TPMS and changing HVAC settings. At the 1st dealer, one guy asked "Is this the new Corolla? Is it AWD?", then another guy came and wanted to charge me $200 for recalibrating TPMS... At the 2nd dealer (a bigger and no markup one), the guy wanted to charge me $169 one hour job just to plug into my car to customize HVAC settings... Foxtrot Uniform Charlie Kilo Toyota USA dealers. I'm more jealous of Japan having GR Garages and Autobacs than ever before...
When people start putting 275 - 300 whp K20 and K24's in these they will be absolutely Chef's Kiss.
What’s your thought about oil starvation? I don’t really know any gen2 blown up engine near me, so I don’t really think that’s a big problem.
Better sound with helmet on. Solution to oil pressure is k20
that was some beautiful driving
Great Camera angle!!
Sweet ride.
I wish Toyota would put their v6 in it
Or that gr yaris/corolla engine
Or literally anything that doesn't blow up
@@Zygrene These don't blow up on their own.. any boxer is going to blow up due to the stock oil pan oiling issues. That can easily be fixed with aftermarket parts. The other reason is RTV sealant, which can also be fixed.
@@Zygrenewould be interesting to see what % of these cars fail vs older Porsches doing so with IMS bearings. Think this is an overreaction coupled with people using street cars for racing applications for which they were not designed nor built.
@@hhaste Why would a buyer fix a new car fresh from the factory? Its like fixing a brand new laundry machine that has been spinning for the past 12 hours.
I think we need oil pressure!
I've heard that the BRZ is faster at the absolute limit, but snappier and harder to keep in line. Does that sound about right to you?
how is the driving when going up inclines, speed bumps, dips/potholes etc?
Great car until the engine explodes
When and why the engine explodes?
Does it happen when we use it normally? Not like a fast and furious driver ?
@@LossLosswhen you take high g force right turns, the oil pressure drops
Buy a baffle kit Christ.
@@ciatangallaghe2485I would say a baffle should be required if the engine was designed correctly. I can track my 17 year old 2006 Honda S2000 making 500whp on E85 without the engine letting go.
No right turns or 💥🔥💥💥🔥💥🔥🔥💥🔥🔥🔥💥🔥
This or type r or ss1le for 50k budget?
We all know the stats of the car so why say them again. What no one talks about is why is the GR 86 more money than the BRZ?
I see no video in the description. Lies!
Tofu Sports Car
No I don’t agree, looks like Toyota is caving and helping most cases.
Best drivers car for under 30k 😂😂😂
Just don’t turn right and you’ll be fine
One of the most artificial engine sounds I’ve heard
That car has the sound imposer turned off, that was natural engine sounds, the imposer is very different to that, I know as I have a GR86
@@johnybigarmsI have to disagree. The Active sound is on. I own a 23 GR86. I had it unplugged for a couple months, and was going to zip tie the plug, as it was rattling, and decided to plug it In, and roll with that for a while. And the engine does not have that deeper roar with it off. I’ve driven with it off and on . His is definitely on
I disagree. The Elantra N is the best sport car under $50k If GR86/BRZ wasn't flawed, then EN would just be the best sports car under $50k WITH useable back seats. Possible to tune GR86/BRZ to grip harder and be quicker then EN (advantage of RWD chassis), but the engine would blow-up from oil starvation.
He said under 30k, not under 50k…
@@rafaelmartins215listen again. He said 50K.
No front wheel drive turbo car compares to this. Even if its faster. Remember a real car guy knows n/a rear wheel drive in manual is the most fun period
Front wheel drive? NO
Subaru has officially declared this a 'road car' in response to oiling issues. What a joke. One of like a dozen purpose built track cars and they won't even stand behind it.
This is so ridiculous to me. There is literally a track button on the car and the red 86 color is called track bred. What a joke
gr86 and BRZ same car same powertrian but subaru has done better job in suspension than toyota who has only experienced in making boring family cars lol.
the subaru brz is lighter and faster than the toyota gr 86
How?
@@axolotl09 how is it how?
@@axolotl09 Toyota will not write it because they also want to sell gr86 but the truth is that Subaru has invested a lot more in the production of bronze and quality
@@Themis187 they're mechanical twins and made in the same plant
@@axolotl09 Are you guys bots?