So I like Sonic Superstars, but wanted to really analyze why the score/perception is what it was compared to it's peers. At the end of the day, enjoy what you enjoy! Comparing Sonic to its peers and trying to stack up against them is always a GOOD thing when its out of love for the franchise and trying to see it improve! What is your take on this discussion?
But theres something Sonic has done that Mario tends not to do and that's DLC acordind to Sega documents and how the last games have happen there's a 90 to 95% chance of Superstars DLC and maybe they will add online multiplayer new playable characters more stuff that will make this games legacy improve
Yeah really liked the game too the only thing that made me mad was the final boss and trips final boss because they were bs. And also I think there is a high chance we will get DLC.
Superstars is just that, mediocre. It needed to be better than mania and it wasn't. The bosses were designed with co-op in mind and that was a huge mistake especially since they didn't reel it back when playing single player. One more thing, the music. Why is it so ass? Sonic is known for banger osts especially the genesis tracks, no offense to tee lopes as he did a fantastic job with all his tracks.
I think it was obvious who would win. Wonder was innovative and full of creativity and surprises. Sonic was trying to recapture the original 2D experience while adding new features. Not enough however, to make it stand out. They’re both great games. I recommend playing both of them.
I feel like the fans are giving the sonic games the worst reviews. I saw the reviews when Sonic frontiers was released and didn't want to buy it because of how bad the reviews were. Then finally after 6 months, I went to my local game stop, got Sonic frontiers, and even the Cashier said that this game was good. I played the game, and loved it. 9/10. Sonic fans need to give sega more credit.
Give Sonic Team more credit. If it was up to Sega, it would have released a year earlier in a Broken state and abandoned like Colors Ultimate. Absolute jokers.
@@quandaledingleofficial6 Wow, that's kind of sad. Sega puts years and months into their games. And you think that fans who spend a week did a better job?
Honestly there really shouldnt have been a competition in the first place. The times when sonic and mario were rivals are long gone. Edit: K so apparently no one actaully understands what i was talking about. I was talking about the COMPETITION. NOT which franchise is better. I meant that the competition was stupid because we should love both games instead of comparing them to one another.
Sonic was literally designed to compete with Mario. Even though the console wars are long over, it’s only natural that people will still compare them to each other because their rivalry was so iconic
@@gmoneythestickmanIt really isn't. Frontiers is so grindy and repetitive it's boring. the cyperspace levels and physics are so lazily made it's sad. The writing isn't as good either.
About everything in Reason 4, you kinda contradict yourself in the very next reason. Mario games are normally more focused in a straight line, making it easier for players to just run forwards. Sonic games, especially 2D ones, require you to learn from past experiences. The devs expect you to go back and learn how you can get to the end goal in the fastest and most efficient way, and as time has gone on, it feels like people have forgotten that that's exactly what the Classic Quartet and Advance Trilogy does, as more and more people just think that Sonic's only about going fast, which I assume is thanks to the boost formula. I'm not saying their bad, but they definitely caused more people to say that. I don't like to compare others to them, but IGN even made this same complaint in their review. So I definitely don't think Reason 4 really makes sense. Other than that complaint, I would say that the rest of this video makes sense, especially Reason 3. I want to believe that it's just a conspiracy that bias isn't why Sonic games can almost never reach the greens, but the more time goes on, the more it becomes believable. Fun video!
I didn’t do enough to flesh out the point because this was an unscripted off the cuff video but I understand what you mean. I think when you get towards the end of trips campaign and play levels like golden capital it’s just a bunch of BS thrown in the level that would never make it fun to replay or ever be able to complete the level fast. But in terms of the main campaign I think they do a good job with the level design overall. Thanks for watching I appreciate the contribution to the discussion as well!
That's exactly the problem with Sonic unfortunately. The biggest issue with the games by far is that you get these sudden difficulty spikes out of the blue that really take the player out of the story the games are trying to tell because they keep having to redo segments of the game. Meanwhile with the Mario games, the difficulty of the segments that story progression is locked behind is balanced enough to where you might die once, but generally unless you're going for the optional challenge stages that aren't tied to plot progression, you are able to get to the end of the story pretty comfortably. The Sonic games need to fix this issue in order to even start to try to compete with Mario, as the developers claim they want to do. Having difficult segments like that is fine, but you should never lock story progression behind them. They should be completely optional. When we play a game for the first time, we don't want to have to go back. We don't care about finding the optimal path. We just want to play the game and get to the end to see how the story unfolds. Did I finish this game? Yes. Eventually. Will I ever go back and play it again? Probably not. I really don't want to have to go through all that again. And evidently, most people feel the way I do. Sega needs to wake up on this.
It's sad to see this game get clapped by Spider-Man 2 and Mario Wonder, but I knew it was going to happen, so I'm not surprised. I wish Sonic Superstars could've gotten the same treatment for Mario Wonder, but as you said, SEGA and Sonic Team can't really afford to do something like that because they don't have the money. Of course, I'm always going to be here to defend my boy, Sonic, and root for him, but I can't say I like and agree with every decision they make. In a perfect world, every dev team would have the time and budget to make a perfect game, but that's sadly not the world we live in. I hope they keep making Classic Sonic games because I'm a huge fan of them! With this game, I've learned to not care as much for reviews since they're not dictating how I personally am going to feel when I eventually play this game. I really wanted Sonic to pull the big numbers with this game and stand toe-to-toe with Mario Wonder, but these results were just destined to happen. Hopefully, we can get to a reality where Sonic and Mario are the crown jewels of the platforming genre.
Sonic might take a lot of Ls to Mario, but no matter how hard he gets hit. he gets back up he’ll keep going strong and the franchise will keep on moving forward.
I like both. I have fun playing both games. I also don't listen to critics because I want to play the game to see if it's good or bad. I'm still saying that I actually like Sonic games that people say it's bad like Sonic 06, Sonic Lost World, Sonic Colors Ultimate and Sonic Forces. These are just my opinions but I enjoyed playing these games.
yeah, some critics will say stupid crap like "this game is so hard, it's not worth playing" supposedly losing to the first boss in some games when the game is way easier than they claim. It's clear that some reviewers just make up crap for the attention. It's always better to play a game yourself. Admittedly, I actually like 06 despite knowing it's a bad game. There's still some guilty pleasure for me that I can get out of some of it's jank. Plus, speedrunners make almost any game look amazing tbh.
I think it's harder for Sonic to compete with Mario cause his entire purpose of being made was lost after Sega stop producing consoles that he was specifically made for to counter Mario. Right now Mario has the edge of being made solely for one console being a Nintendo 1st party exclusive while Sonic Team has to worry about making Sonic games on multiple consoles. And because Sonic's a very fast character, making great graphics with his games takes a lot of resources considering how fast he burns thru stages which are required to be huge to accommodate his speed.
I love the differences of how companies handle their releases 😄 Nintendo handling Mario/Zelda games: "Let's give the developers enough time to make a great, polished game". Monolith Soft with Xenoblade: "Lol, we're already finished polishing our game prior to release. Let's simply start selling it months prior to the announced release". Gamefreak with Pokemon: "Our protagonist knows how to walk, let's release it and never patch out all the bugs"
It's not GameFreak's fault. The Pokémon Company makes them overwork 365 days of the year because they want a big main game per year. Even Nintendo tried to tell them "please, slow down because we don't want broken games." And GF being the slave of TPC, which is 3 thirds property of Nintendo.
I personally love Superstars. I'd even say it is better than Mania due to all new levels alone but I love the bosses and all the new creative things brought into the game. It feels classic. And Ohshima-san has returned. But, it can't be compared as if it is a competition. Nintendo is a gigantic company that can hire a large workforce of artists, layout designers, things of that nature. There really is no chance to compare to that. I have my complaints with both games (Superstars and Wonder) to be honest. But, to appreciate it as a new Sonic game with some originality and fun levels, I can't knock it. And it is solid and fun throughout.
I have them both, and I don't want to say one is better than the other, but I think Sonic is more fun. When I turn on my switch, the first game I want to play right now is sonic.
It's time to stop comparing the franchises. It made sense once, but it's been decades since Sega had their own console in the race. In 2023, it's like feeling the need to compare Mario to Mega Man.
13:42 I've always hated darkness levels where you can't see but 3 feet in front of you, and this level is no exception. Even in Super Mario Maker 2, whenever I encounter a darkness level like this, I automatically hit the skip button.
Dark levels though I'm pretty skilled at Mario Panasonic mostly Mario dark levels are pretty skilled and actually pretty cool if you ask me Finnegan that's just my personal opinion so
TBF, Superstars has 8.9 user score and Wonder has 9.1 which are VERY close I still believe that Superstars should get at least a score of 83 or something like that
My only real complaint with Sonic Superstars are specifically with the bosses, especially the ones starting at press factory, they stall way too much and a lot of them have instant death moves and then you have to start over from the very beginning it all takes way too long, and it kind of goes against what classic Sonic was about. Also Frozen Base zone should have had a real second act, and that space shoot em up level should have been its own one stage zone. Also the super transformation button should not be mapped with the Chaos Emerald powers and you should be able to use the emerald powers when you're super..
Frozen base act 1 was fire wish we got a follow up to that as well. Bosses REALLY drag the game down, while the main campaign platforming levels are generally pretty solid.
Why tf are people making it a competition in the first place? It's not the 90's anymore, and it honestly sounds like saltiness, bitterness, jealousy, and an overall inferiority complex from the Sonic fanbase.
It's well known that Sega fired the Mania team because they asked to be be paid "too much," and therein lies all the difference. For all of Nintendo's flaws, they treat every in-house game like a work of art. Delays are common. Even cancelations are fairly common, but that is why Nintendo games almost never go on sale. They have a reputation to maintain whereas Sonic has been all over the place from masterpieces like Adventure 2 to disasters like Sonic 06. Sadly, Sega views Sonic the same way Game Freak views Pokémon: as a cash cow that sells on name alone. They treat games purely as a business, not an art.
Agreed, I think SEGA is starting just now to see that Sonic is actually worth investing in as a game IP due to the success of Frontiers and the movie franchise. So we will see what the future holds in the next 5-10 years
I grew up with Sonic, so naturally I’m always gonna prefer Sonic over Mario, but I’m a fan of both franchises. I think both Sonic Superstars and Super Mario Wonder are amazing in their own ways, but I believe 2D Sonic is slightly better than 2D Mario simply because of the speed factor. I will say though, from what I’ve seen, Mario Wonder is probably the Mario game that, in certain sections, comes the closest to matching the speed that the Sonic games are known for, while Sonic Superstars feels like Sega’s version of the New Super Mario Bros series with the 3D graphics, the 4 player coop, and introducing new power ups and new levels, while still feeling familiar to those who played through the classics.
@@aquaponieeeYou are wrong. Speed Factor DO work in 2D. Let me explain why: remember when Yuji Naka took inspiration from Mario's first level??? It was to see how FAST he could beat level in Super Mario. So basically you have contradicted yourself.
@Skezzin7698 If the guy does not like a "speed factor" in 2D games he shouldn't say that "speed factors don't work in 2D games" because then he's trying to state a fact rather than an opinion. For me personally I actually like speed factors in 2D games and it works very well for Sonic the hedgehog titles Even in 3D games like Sonic Frontiers, Sonic Adventures 1 & 2 and Sonic Dream Team. The 3D Sonic will FOREVER be BETTER than 3D Super Mid... I mean Super Mario games. And for me personally I think Sonic is better the Mario!
I honestly think it's just cause of the currect bias people have against Sonic, and the fact that Mario games and Sonic games are both so drastically different with how they play and what they try to achieve. Another thing would be the release dates being so close and people rushing to finish Superstars in time for Wonder. There are other factors, but I feel that those two might be the biggest offenders.
I'd say it's that people have an expectation of sonic, and the conflict between 2D and 3D fans. mario doesn't have this issue because they routinely deliver both 2D and 3D games. that and mario fans are really accustomed to change. we rarely get more than 2 mario games in the same style. mario bros 1 and lost levels is dramatically different from mario bros 2 and bros 3 feels wildly different from everything that came before. mario started out in donkey kong and demolition crew. mario world was a little different from 3, but then world 2 was a totally different game. even the 3D games are almost all totally different games. There isn't much expectation for "what a mario game is". sonic though, sonic 1,2,CD and 3&knuckles are very similar games. the mechanics feel the same, and you'll be just as comfortable with any of them as you would the others. they more or less feel like one continuous game. this is why sonic 4 was so utterly hated, because it didn't feel like the next part of this continuous game. fans have this expectation of 2D sonic. this is also why mania was so beloved, because it DID feel like it continued the continuous game. Sonic team just doesn't seem to understand this expectation, and wants to just copy nintendo with random zany ideas (sometimes copy too much). then, among the fanbase, there is a huge division. because there are many continuous subserieses in the sonic franchise. worse yet, most of these get abandoned and replaced with newer ones. 2D classic sonic died and was replaced with adventure and advance. 06 killed the adventure format, and boost format replaced adventure and advance with rush and unleashed. the boost formula has been around until whatever you'd call frontiers. lost worlds was also different, but didn't do well, so it was just a one off, but frontiers is successful, so it'll likely be the new 3D format going forward. each format has it's hardcore fans, but classic 2D fans clash the most with adventure and especially boost style fans. 3D fans think that 2D is inherently inferior to 3D and shouldn't exist, adventure and classic fans think boost is a lazy boring boost to win mode, sonic 3&K fans fight fervently with Adventure 2 fans for title of best game in the series. advance and rush fans tend to be pretty chill though for some reason. so, for super stars, the 3D fans probably see it as a waste of time and a threat to their preferred format, and 2D classic fans are judging it based on the expectations of the one long continuous game.
Well said! As someone else who loved the game but didn’t think it was as good as it could’ve been I 💯 percent agree with everything you said. Being a sonic fan doesn’t mean that you have to follow the series blindly and allow mediocrity. I remember Sonic the hedgehog being a HUGE deal in the 90’s and at one point his games were arguably as good (if not better in some circles) as Mario’s so I know sega can do it again if they take their time with making games and giving it the extra polish that it deserves at times. It doesn’t make you any less of a fan to have high expectations of a series that you love and know deserves better treatment cause you’ve seen how great it was with a little TLC. I wanna see my childhood hero get his spot back in the sun and not pointing stuff out like you said that the mass majority all agree with is a problem isn’t going to help him achieve it!
When Superstars first leaked I followed some treads on 4chan to gauge people's reactions and everyone was so negative, some even saying Superstars was a mess on the same level as Sonic 06. Then I got the game and played for myself, and I liked it, a lot. I had zero hype for this game, but it is a straight up good 2D Sonic game. Not sure if it is worth full price, but level design is very good, with many branching paths and little to no automation, controls are just like Mania's. In fact, the more I replay the levels the more I like the game.
@@SonicHubYTThose discussions started with leaked versions, which means it was played by people so excited to play it that they couldn't wait for official release. People who are so hyped are nearly guaranteed to be Sonic fans who wanted to see Super Sonic ending. That means after suffering through the final boss of Story Mode, they played Trip's Story which makes all the issues of the game even worse. Spiky enemies everywhere, bottomless pits and other insta-kill obstacles ruin level design, bosses which were already waitfests became twice as long (or longer if they die), Fangbot takes forever, each attempt takes forever and can be ruined by tons of various instakill attacks that restart the battle from the start and Super Sonic boss fight is just tons of waiting which are the best utilized for praying to RNGesus to spawn friends with rings, the worst final boss in the entire series. That's the final impression they got - worse level design, boring bosses that take forever and two terrible final bosses. Most problems about Superstars are backloaded to Trip's Story and Last Story. And after they were done with those two - they came to complain online with terrible last impression. Superstars is great if you stick just to Story Mode. Most average people will do that, and praise the game, while fans who couldn't even wait for release end up with bitter aftertaste.
@@Gnidel Good analysis that makes sense. Crazy enough I really like playing as trip as a character her story just sucks towards the end and the bosses as well. When I replay though I will be only sticking to story which is pretty solid minus some of the waiting around during bosses
@@Gnidel With that being said, I've always wondered if the bad IGN review of Sonic Unleashed HD was cause the reviewer suffered through EggmanLand which no doubt would've left a nasty taste in his mouth.
Sonic and Mario are both the greatest video game characters, they’re both great franchises so it doesn’t really matter what video game characters we like I like them both sonic. The hedgehog is my favorite. Also super Mario is my favorite too.
If sonic superstars have a sequel. I hope 2 things 1. better music 2. More unique innovative zones. Like a microscopic zone , an art zone, a mad max esque zone, a barnyard, a construction building in a city, a bayou, a graveyard, a persian temple, a medieval castle.. I dunno. more new stuff for a 2D sonic game.
Ignoring what Metacritic users think of a game since a site should never decide if a game is good or bad for someone, people need to understand first is that big Mario fanboys are the issue and the fact that they only praise classic Sonic games over the modern 3D ones as well as Mania. I've seen many comments over the years where they would say that "Sonic needs to return to the past and stay there" thinking that will really happen. First, that's just their personal opinion and not even a valid criticism. Second, Mario started off also as a 2D platformer then went 3D later on starting with Mario 64, a game heavily praised from the time and even today. Sonic goes 3D, criticism wasn't well recieved unless it was Sonic Adventure 1 and 2. Sega made Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1 and 2, two games that were meant to return back to it's roots in the form of a 3D gaming experience. It went to recieve heavy criticism and backlash for silly reasons like "bad momentum, terrible controls, slow start, sluggish pacing and the fact that it wasn't a classic 2D Sonic game. I liked both of those games and I will never understand people's criticisms for it. However, another 3D Mario game comes along during the time and it gets wide praise, the Wii and Wii U versions. Yes, the reason is because of fanboyism and forced personal opinions. "Mario is just better" is not a good reason to give Sonic a bad rep. 9s and 10s across the board for Wonder while reviewers and critics just laugh at and completely demolish Superstars. It's sickening.
For me its pretty simple: Mario Wonder is just another evolution going back to New Super Mario. Nintendo took a risk with changing course for Mario, people loved it, so they kept doing it. They iterated little by little with each new release and threw away anything that didnt work, while keeping everything that did. Sega did the same thing with Sonic Mania: explore going back to Sonics roots, truly going back to it not this "classic Sonic" crap, and people loved it. But then they went "Nah lets throw that away and keep trying new things" And hey dont get me wrong Superstars is decent. Its not a horrible game. But it doesnt have the level design, the look, the feel, and definitely not the boss design true Genesis Sonic games have, and this insistence in including some "modern" stuff drags it down. We didnt ask for 2.5D redesign for Sonic that makes everyone look like "classic" Sonic and packs levels with gimmicks, we just wanted Mania 2.
As someone who plays a lot of Mario maker 2 and Classic Sonic Sim (Sonic & Mario level makers) it’s a lot easier to make a good mario level so that makes sense
@@SonicHubYT yo I play a LOT of CSS and I’m not being narcissistic but I think my Sonic levels are pretty good! I don’t play Mario maker 2 cos I’m too brokand not interested enough.
Mario Maker 2 is one of my favorite games is factually better than that Sonic maker thing I mean I played it but it wasn't really possible to make a good level for me but when Mario Maker it was so fun and also they should have had the online play from Mario Wonder Mario wonder is a 10 out of 10 game to be honest but to be fair they should have had like the multiplayer like in Mario Maker 2 what you could actually play with different people not as a ghost but like a physical player that would have been way better
How about the fact you can't start a fresh run with Trip, because you already collected the emeralds on that file and had to beat the game already to unlock her? Maybe you can purposefully avoid getting them on a file, but then that'd be a whole run through just to set up for a fresh run for her, one time only. (unless there is a way, and I missed it or something)
I almost feel bad disliking Superstars because they clearly were trying to give value for money, with the big levels and boss fights. But I got to the Cyber City(?) boss and got so frustrated that I figured I’d rather not get annoyed trying to have fun. I’m annoyed about most things in life as is
Lets put it this way: Sega's last release of a Sonic game that had universal acclaim was in the late 90s, and that was Sonic Adventure. Mario's last game that had universal acclaim was less than a month ago.
Mario games have always had much better level design then Sonic. That is why they have a much better flow to them. For a game series that emphasizes speed there is often a lot of tedious, slow paced level design in many Sonic games. Waiting for elevators to move, enemies that jump out of nowhere and punish the player for running fast, missing important paths and items because you couldn't stop fast enough, etc.
Sega doesn't have what it takes to compete. They release unfinished products at overprice, take all eternity to fix the problems which modders are capable of fixing, and they charge money for DLC that should already be in the game. It's the same bullsh-t over and over again.
I haven’t played either of the two games, but I do plan to pick them up eventually… but at the same time I felt Sonic SuperStars was pretty much doomed to fail. The game was already receiving bad feedback before it even came out, the competition was way too much for the game to handle and the game eventually got overshadowed and crushed by not just Super Mario Bros Wonder, but Spider-Man 2 as well…. just completely sad to see this happen yet again… Sonic really had no chance if I’m being honest… this same thing happened with the Mario movie a few months ago where Sonic got completely destroyed and now here we are a few months later and Sonic just gets crushed by Mario again…. At this point I’m not even surprised that Sonic lost to Mario because he always was in his shadow and probably forever will be…
Do a video on fixing the game. And ideas for dlc - achievements - show who you beat the level with, show if you beat the golden enemy. - add difficulty levels. Easy adds lot of springs and remove pit falls for younger kids and add difficult node making a gold version of bosses with new moves. - battle mode fix - add item boxes and new items, add badnicks , add sonic and friends. Do badnicks vs metal vs heros mode, add moves to robot. - add custom robot on story mode. - add bean and bark as bosses and add maybe another player to play as. Either from the comics, or bomb and heavy from chaotic or Honey from Sonic Fighrers etc. - add fire shields , lighting and water this could add bare min meta to the battles to make it harder - make sure every level has 3 acts, a fruit stage and exclusive character stage - revamp powers
Actually sonic superstars did not loose and super mario wonder did not loose either. Both games are incredible games that are really interesting and cool so its basically a tie.
sega isn't broke, shit they bought atlus in the last decade and had two of the most popular RPG releases in forever. they may not have nintendo money but they are certainly not broke like you imply.
Lmao bruh I didn’t say SEGA is broke I said Nintendo has a lot more money than SEGA so they can afford time (most important) and extra budget to polish their games
@@SonicHubYT you basically said they didn't have the funding to sit on the sonic game and polish it like nintendo did. persona 5 took a good decade to release and sega still gave them 3 years to put it out after sega acquired them lol.
I love Mania but I do feel it's just slightly overrated, some of the levels go on for a bit too long. I feel like the level design in Superstars better represents that classic formula.
One thing I don’t see mentioned that often is that superstars sonic doesn’t control exactly the same as mania he’s much slower and can’t create his own speed u can only go really fast when the game makes you and his jump is harder to control in the air, I think the did this on purpose to help with the multiplayer so you don’t just leave the other player behind
The main reason why I chose Mario Wonder over Sonic Superstars was the soundtrack. I know there are a few good tracks in Superstars but after the amazing soundtrack of Sonic Mania, Superstars was a huge letdown.
Great video! Mania is definitely one of the best 2D Side Scrolling Sonic games, being one of the highest rated games. I also like Superstars, but I'm surprised that it lost to Super Mario Wonder. I'd give the game a 9.5/10, because I think the bosses may be the only problem. For Mario Wonder, I'd probably give it a 9.7/10 because I think the animations are really awesome and they took their time with it. At least we know that when it comes to games, they sometimes delay because either they need more time or making sure it's amazing as possible. I do like Superstars, but we all know that the game is not perfect. I think it pretty well. For Frontiers, I have more negative thoughts about it than Superstars. The visuals in that game were amazing in the trailer, but they gameplay and slightly mid visuals are the problems I have with it. In Super Mario Wonder, there are way less issues for me, because the gameplay and animations are really smooth and way less garbage. Those boss fights are very creative and a little more fun than Superstars. In that game, they're way too long and the mechanics are rigged at times. It's also surprising it actually doesn't have online multi-player unlike Wonder. That's another reason why I think that game is almost perfect. Mario is definitely a very creative platform type game, with Sonic is always about being fast, which a lot of people are not used to. I still think that Superstars is absolutely fantastic, because it's just really good to see how much work and effort they put into these Sonic games. Super Mario Wonder is also good, and it's also not perfect but it's good enough. I'll wait and see where Nintendo and Sega will go next! Again, great video, Chris!
not gonna lie, i dont see why everyone likes the 2d sonic games so much, sure they are good but i only see them as A tier games (except for sonic 2 the goat)
@@TailsHub7 Because the 3D Sonic games ALWAYS have problems beyond just having story segments locked behind challenges that are prohibitively difficult (such as frequent glitches in most of them). Superstars has glitches, but for the most part you need to really go out of your way to find them.
@@TailsHub7 Sonic games have a reputation of flinging you off ledges, and there's a glitch in Frontiers that basically lets you skip half of certain areas. I don't recall a single Mario game that ever had something like that unless it was intentional and actually part of the game.
@@SBaby when did sonic games have a reputation of flining you offf ledges 💀 also stop comparing a 50 billion dollar company games to a 3 billion dollar company games
Halfway through video only, at this point I’m just mad that people are still trashing on Sonic Frontiers. (I have not played mania yet) Sonic Frontiers is easily the best sonic game by a long shot
2 main things: Difficulty curve and reward system. Sonic does not feel rewarding for getting new skills. Sonic does not need the difficulty spike of having instant death llasers ignoring rings and long swaths of nothing in boss fights that go from playing Yoshi's Story's Cotton Candy Boss to Do you wanna be the guy? difficulty.
It was joever for Superstars once Wonder was announced. Ngl if Spider Man 2 n Wonder release in 2024, then maybe I could have gotten Superstars n I think Superstars would have sold more. Not saying the sells were a flop, it probably sold well, but with Wonder in the mix, I'm a bit worried tho.
@@dontbecomelgbt Multiplat games can still fail in terms of sales. Look at games like Crash Team Rumble, Overwatch 2, Balan Wonderworld, etc. Not saying Superstars flopped cuz despite the release of Mario Wonder n Spider Man 2, im pretty sure the game still made decent buck for Sega/Sonic Team and it will probably keep growing once they drop the price to $40 or lower along with the announcement of dlc 4 Superstars
But superstars wasn't a complete L for sonic either because it was successful not as successful as Mario wonder but in the end of the day it's still a good game maybe not better than Mario wonders(I'm a sonic fan too but I'm not gonna gaslight myself say Superstars is better) but it's still a good game and in the end of the day it's not that important and deep...this is coming From someone who enjoyed both games All I'm hoping for is atleast superstars get a plus treatment like mania and origins did.
I think it's just the timing of them releasing the same week and Sonic being more expensive in my country, a 2d mario hasnt be out for a while and you have some faith the game will be good cause it's made by nintendo, so I went with mario wonder and il get sonic superstars later when it goes on sale and mario games rarely go on sale
Saying that Frontiers is not polished is really wrong, the buget put into a game dosen't matter at all, the main reason is that Sonic's Superstars bosses are just harder than even Cuphead while Mario wonder is the easier game, Sonic is most of the time the harder game, Sonic is easy but every Sonic game is easy but has that part of the game that is really hard and stop us from replaying the game.
The only gripes i have with superstars is the emerald powers doing the same functional thing for at least 2-3 of them, the multiplayer, and the chaos emerald stage difficulty curves, specifically the green and purple emeralds being complete BS and the normal chases with plenty to swing on are more fun to do.
I feel that Sega just doesn’t have much budget or time to make these games universally acclaimed. Sega did have more budget than Mania but that was used on the new graphics, animations etc. I personally love these games but one of the major downfalls of Sonic Superstars was the inconsistent OST. Don’t get me wrong Jun is a music KING but this music style is pretty controversial and I know that the music would be better with Jun’s signature guitar!
Despite the annoying overhype Nintendo did with Wonder (Which not to offend Nintendo fans, hated the overhype Nintendo has been doing including TOTK). I had fun with Mario Bros Wonder.
Sonic will win someday, no hate to Mario or anything, but Sonic deserves atleast ONE win at this point. While sonic team doesn’t have the highest budget, they’ve been doing astronomical for what they do have. You can tell that sega has been working soooooo hard these last couple of years when it comes to the blue blur. We got 2 movies, frontiers (amazing 3D sonic game, change my mind), origins, prime, origins +, superstars, 3 incredible updates for frontiers, murder of sonic, and even sonic & friends, yes, the little tiktok videos or whatever. My point is that they DO care about their fans, deny it all you want. Theyre even coming out with a THIRD movie now. They deserve the world for what they’re doing for us. Say what you want about forces, 06, lost world, colors ultimate etc. let’s focus on what theyre doing NOW. Mario’s not perfect either.
The reason is because modern Sega and Sonic Team are mediocre. Sonic as a franchise fell off long ago. And while he’s slowly getting better, I doubt he’ll ever reach the heights of Mario and Zelda ever again.
probably the fact of consistency. nintendo are consistently putting out good mario games over the past few years and sega arent really very reliable when it comes to that
I don't even see anyone saying they like superstars besides sonic hub man yall are so ungrateful Sega. Managed to put out 3 sonic games for us this year and yall still not grateful maybe we should get the forces treatment and wait another 5 to 7 years maybe then you guys will like that
Sonic superstars is a good game overall, but ya I’d recommend getting Mario wonder or Spider-Man 2 over it any day of the week. At that point it doesn’t matter if ur making a good that good when ur competitors are making games that are great
Did Nintendo actually spend significantly more money on Wonder though? I think the problem Sega and plenty of other companies have is there approach. Nintendo have a handful of people brainstorming and planning things out isn't as costly as a game being scrapped and changed around constantly by people in upper management interfering. Look at what happened to Anthem. Upper management wanted the player to be able to fly throughout the entire game in a game that didn't have levels designed around that. Pretty much all of the work had to be scrapped and the content that made it into the final game represented a very small portion of the total development time. Nintendo prototypes and works out all of the really tough stuff before all of the real, expensive work begins so they don't have to rebuild detailed assets and such a bunch of times.
As far as sales it was always going to lose lol I'm a much bigger fan of Sonic than Mario and still prefer sonic even now. But it all boils down to popularity at the end of the day.
Why are you not accepting the fact that superstars is mediocre, i get its sonic but this game is mid, bosses are too long and have one hit kos,the game is too short for a full priced game, the ost is ruined bc of jun senoue, and and you're not going fast like in the previous classic titles.
@@quandaledingleofficial6 Because your personal opinion is not a fact first of all, secondly it doesn't matter one way or the other because it changes nothing about what I said.
Mario Wonder isn’t considered better because “popularity”. Mario’s last game is widely considered mid (New Super Mario Bros. U). But they learned from that and gave us Mario Maker and now Wonder. Sonic is just made by a team that barely knows what they’re doing and won’t hand over the reins to a team with passion and creativity. I really wish there was a good team behind Sonic because my first ever game was Sonic the Hedgehog and made me fall in love with games.
Not to mention what Sega snuck in to the steam version of Sonic Superstars. That surely can't be helping in the slightest. So..I got all 7 emeralds, and didn't even realize you could change characters between stages or anything until I got to that dreaded final boss fight. Where I spent hours trying to figure out how to stay alive long enough to beat it. I get Sega not wanting you to quickly destroy bosses like the classic games. But it's true 10 plus minutes for a Sonic boss fight is unbearable. And the next day when I came back and was able to switch from Sonic, I was able to defeat the final boss. I used the shadow clone chaos emerald ability just to get through some of these fights... Which oh yeah.. If you aren't careful.. They drop your super form when you get to the boss fights, so if you aren't quick enough or paying attention, you'll end up losing your rings to some sort of BS and you know, can't go super without 50 rings. And used the one where you can blast yourself around the level quite often. The plant based one is absolutely garbage and very rarely did the all seeing ability did anything as it's only meant for specific areas. I don't think I used Chaos Control at all or even the one that that turns you into water at all. And that's another thing.. I don't like that you have to tap the button to put it on the specific emerald ability you want to use. I'm used to how the wheel works for Link's abilities where you hold and pick. That's all I have to compare that too. I do remember when seeing the trailer, I said somewhere it was Sonic 4 all over again.. And while better than Sonic 4.. It still isn't far off. I'm very much used to the classic physics of rolling into a ball and gaining momentum.. Don't expect that here in Superstars. Immediately slows you down. Other than that, I guess I had a little fun trying to run through the stages. And don't even get me started what Frontiers did once the update dropped. It literally became unplayable for me. I get like 1 or 2 frames a second now. I don't know how that happened or why it happened when before it was running on par. So I can't even finish that one. Edited note: I need to get the Mario game yet. And probably will soon.
So I like Sonic Superstars, but wanted to really analyze why the score/perception is what it was compared to it's peers. At the end of the day, enjoy what you enjoy! Comparing Sonic to its peers and trying to stack up against them is always a GOOD thing when its out of love for the franchise and trying to see it improve! What is your take on this discussion?
But theres something Sonic has done that Mario tends not to do and that's DLC acordind to Sega documents and how the last games have happen there's a 90 to 95% chance of Superstars DLC and maybe they will add online multiplayer new playable characters more stuff that will make this games legacy improve
Sonic superstars is really a great game so I'm proud to be a sonic fan.
You forgot to mention the music composition was very Sonic 4ish mediocre, etc.
Yeah really liked the game too the only thing that made me mad was the final boss and trips final boss because they were bs. And also I think there is a high chance we will get DLC.
Superstars is just that, mediocre. It needed to be better than mania and it wasn't. The bosses were designed with co-op in mind and that was a huge mistake especially since they didn't reel it back when playing single player. One more thing, the music. Why is it so ass? Sonic is known for banger osts especially the genesis tracks, no offense to tee lopes as he did a fantastic job with all his tracks.
I think it was obvious who would win. Wonder was innovative and full of creativity and surprises.
Sonic was trying to recapture the original 2D experience while adding new features. Not enough however, to make it stand out.
They’re both great games. I recommend playing both of them.
I feel like the fans are giving the sonic games the worst reviews. I saw the reviews when Sonic frontiers was released and didn't want to buy it because of how bad the reviews were. Then finally after 6 months, I went to my local game stop, got Sonic frontiers, and even the Cashier said that this game was good. I played the game, and loved it. 9/10. Sonic fans need to give sega more credit.
Give Sonic Team more credit. If it was up to Sega, it would have released a year earlier in a Broken state and abandoned like Colors Ultimate. Absolute jokers.
@@spritvio639fans make better games than them
@@quandaledingleofficial6 Wow, that's kind of sad. Sega puts years and months into their games. And you think that fans who spend a week did a better job?
@@blast7061tbf they literally made Sonic Mania.
@@daniellejackson6543 It's not completely fan made.
Honestly there really shouldnt have been a competition in the first place.
The times when sonic and mario were rivals are long gone.
Edit: K so apparently no one actaully understands what i was talking about. I was talking about the COMPETITION. NOT which franchise is better. I meant that the competition was stupid because we should love both games instead of comparing them to one another.
I love being a fan of mario and sonic
Yeah. Because Sonic fell off so far that the only reasonable thing to do is to back out immediately.
It’s just friendly competition, it might not look like it but it is
Sonic was literally designed to compete with Mario. Even though the console wars are long over, it’s only natural that people will still compare them to each other because their rivalry was so iconic
True, Mario will never lose so its not a contest
Giving frontiers a 2/10 is crazy
yeah dude I thought it would be 1/10
@@chadcat69I thought it would be a 0/10
@@Paperio_tbh I thought it’d be -1/10
I would expect ign to give it a 0/10 since it’s a good game
@@gmoneythestickmanIt really isn't. Frontiers is so grindy and repetitive it's boring. the cyperspace levels and physics are so lazily made it's sad. The writing isn't as good either.
About everything in Reason 4, you kinda contradict yourself in the very next reason. Mario games are normally more focused in a straight line, making it easier for players to just run forwards. Sonic games, especially 2D ones, require you to learn from past experiences. The devs expect you to go back and learn how you can get to the end goal in the fastest and most efficient way, and as time has gone on, it feels like people have forgotten that that's exactly what the Classic Quartet and Advance Trilogy does, as more and more people just think that Sonic's only about going fast, which I assume is thanks to the boost formula. I'm not saying their bad, but they definitely caused more people to say that. I don't like to compare others to them, but IGN even made this same complaint in their review. So I definitely don't think Reason 4 really makes sense.
Other than that complaint, I would say that the rest of this video makes sense, especially Reason 3. I want to believe that it's just a conspiracy that bias isn't why Sonic games can almost never reach the greens, but the more time goes on, the more it becomes believable. Fun video!
I didn’t do enough to flesh out the point because this was an unscripted off the cuff video but I understand what you mean. I think when you get towards the end of trips campaign and play levels like golden capital it’s just a bunch of BS thrown in the level that would never make it fun to replay or ever be able to complete the level fast. But in terms of the main campaign I think they do a good job with the level design overall. Thanks for watching I appreciate the contribution to the discussion as well!
That's exactly the problem with Sonic unfortunately. The biggest issue with the games by far is that you get these sudden difficulty spikes out of the blue that really take the player out of the story the games are trying to tell because they keep having to redo segments of the game. Meanwhile with the Mario games, the difficulty of the segments that story progression is locked behind is balanced enough to where you might die once, but generally unless you're going for the optional challenge stages that aren't tied to plot progression, you are able to get to the end of the story pretty comfortably.
The Sonic games need to fix this issue in order to even start to try to compete with Mario, as the developers claim they want to do. Having difficult segments like that is fine, but you should never lock story progression behind them. They should be completely optional. When we play a game for the first time, we don't want to have to go back. We don't care about finding the optimal path. We just want to play the game and get to the end to see how the story unfolds. Did I finish this game? Yes. Eventually. Will I ever go back and play it again? Probably not. I really don't want to have to go through all that again. And evidently, most people feel the way I do. Sega needs to wake up on this.
It's sad to see this game get clapped by Spider-Man 2 and Mario Wonder, but I knew it was going to happen, so I'm not surprised. I wish Sonic Superstars could've gotten the same treatment for Mario Wonder, but as you said, SEGA and Sonic Team can't really afford to do something like that because they don't have the money. Of course, I'm always going to be here to defend my boy, Sonic, and root for him, but I can't say I like and agree with every decision they make. In a perfect world, every dev team would have the time and budget to make a perfect game, but that's sadly not the world we live in. I hope they keep making Classic Sonic games because I'm a huge fan of them! With this game, I've learned to not care as much for reviews since they're not dictating how I personally am going to feel when I eventually play this game. I really wanted Sonic to pull the big numbers with this game and stand toe-to-toe with Mario Wonder, but these results were just destined to happen. Hopefully, we can get to a reality where Sonic and Mario are the crown jewels of the platforming genre.
Agreed
True that.. true that
What’s even crazier is Super Mario wonder beat spider man 2 💀
@ohosmandivine6770 surprisingly yeah
@ohosmandivine6770maybe because the critics know mario since 1983
Mario's implementation of multiplayer was very clever.
Sonic might take a lot of Ls to Mario, but no matter how hard he gets hit. he gets back up he’ll keep going strong and the franchise will keep on moving forward.
I like both. I have fun playing both games. I also don't listen to critics because I want to play the game to see if it's good or bad. I'm still saying that I actually like Sonic games that people say it's bad like Sonic 06, Sonic Lost World, Sonic Colors Ultimate and Sonic Forces. These are just my opinions but I enjoyed playing these games.
yeah, some critics will say stupid crap like "this game is so hard, it's not worth playing" supposedly losing to the first boss in some games when the game is way easier than they claim.
It's clear that some reviewers just make up crap for the attention. It's always better to play a game yourself. Admittedly, I actually like 06 despite knowing it's a bad game. There's still some guilty pleasure for me that I can get out of some of it's jank. Plus, speedrunners make almost any game look amazing tbh.
I think it's harder for Sonic to compete with Mario cause his entire purpose of being made was lost after Sega stop producing consoles that he was specifically made for to counter Mario. Right now Mario has the edge of being made solely for one console being a Nintendo 1st party exclusive while Sonic Team has to worry about making Sonic games on multiple consoles. And because Sonic's a very fast character, making great graphics with his games takes a lot of resources considering how fast he burns thru stages which are required to be huge to accommodate his speed.
I love the differences of how companies handle their releases 😄
Nintendo handling Mario/Zelda games:
"Let's give the developers enough time to make a great, polished game".
Monolith Soft with Xenoblade:
"Lol, we're already finished polishing our game prior to release. Let's simply start selling it months prior to the announced release".
Gamefreak with Pokemon:
"Our protagonist knows how to walk, let's release it and never patch out all the bugs"
What about Sega?
Sega with Platinum Games:
_C'mon take your time._
Sega with Sonic Team:
*_I WANT THAT GAME FOR YESTERDAY!_*
It's not GameFreak's fault.
The Pokémon Company makes them overwork 365 days of the year because they want a big main game per year. Even Nintendo tried to tell them "please, slow down because we don't want broken games." And GF being the slave of TPC, which is 3 thirds property of Nintendo.
I personally love Superstars. I'd even say it is better than Mania due to all new levels alone but I love the bosses and all the new creative things brought into the game. It feels classic. And Ohshima-san has returned.
But, it can't be compared as if it is a competition. Nintendo is a gigantic company that can hire a large workforce of artists, layout designers, things of that nature.
There really is no chance to compare to that. I have my complaints with both games (Superstars and Wonder) to be honest. But, to appreciate it as a new Sonic game with some originality and fun levels, I can't knock it. And it is solid and fun throughout.
I agree I like superstars better than mania because it’s more original and feels fresh.
HAHAHAHAHHA thanks I needed that laugh. Mania is leagues ahead of Superstars.
Oh boy... the bosses... they stall way too much.
I have them both, and I don't want to say one is better than the other, but I think Sonic is more fun. When I turn on my switch, the first game I want to play right now is sonic.
@@TheCapnMorgan But it plays like trash.
And hey, I'm not even mad at that. I KNEW Super Mario Bros Wonder will win. And that wonder game is SUPER GOOD!
It's time to stop comparing the franchises. It made sense once, but it's been decades since Sega had their own console in the race. In 2023, it's like feeling the need to compare Mario to Mega Man.
I agree
I agree
Agreed. It is so annoying.
Sonic was made to be a Mario competitor and Sega themself even said they want to Compete with Mario and again and even surpass himz
Sega literally said they wanted to make Sonic compete against Mario like they did back in the 90's.
So comparisons are correct.
13:42 I've always hated darkness levels where you can't see but 3 feet in front of you, and this level is no exception.
Even in Super Mario Maker 2, whenever I encounter a darkness level like this, I automatically hit the skip button.
it was executed particularly poorly in this game though
Dark levels though I'm pretty skilled at Mario Panasonic mostly Mario dark levels are pretty skilled and actually pretty cool if you ask me Finnegan that's just my personal opinion so
Even if Mario wonder got a higher score than Sonic superstars I still love superstars better, great video!
That’s all that matters 💯
TBF, Superstars has 8.9 user score and Wonder has 9.1 which are VERY close
I still believe that Superstars should get at least a score of 83 or something like that
Mario Wonder did get rated before it is even released so
@@nariobrosshowthat’s bc of the game critics
My only real complaint with Sonic Superstars are specifically with the bosses, especially the ones starting at press factory, they stall way too much and a lot of them have instant death moves and then you have to start over from the very beginning it all takes way too long, and it kind of goes against what classic Sonic was about.
Also Frozen Base zone should have had a real second act, and that space shoot em up level should have been its own one stage zone.
Also the super transformation button should not be mapped with the Chaos Emerald powers and you should be able to use the emerald powers when you're super..
Frozen base act 1 was fire wish we got a follow up to that as well. Bosses REALLY drag the game down, while the main campaign platforming levels are generally pretty solid.
This is not even a competition anymore at this point.
Wonder demolished Superstars and that's a fact.
And I am saying this as a huge Sonic fan!
Why tf are people making it a competition in the first place? It's not the 90's anymore, and it honestly sounds like saltiness, bitterness, jealousy, and an overall inferiority complex from the Sonic fanbase.
I know, right? I like Sonic more than Mario, and even I agree with this.
FINALLY SOMEBODY SAID IT!
The sonic fans are out rage 💀
Maybe because they released within a very short timespan of eachother and not many AAA 2d platformers are made anymore
I hope Sega is grilling, cooking, frying microwaving for the next Sonic Game!
It's well known that Sega fired the Mania team because they asked to be be paid "too much," and therein lies all the difference.
For all of Nintendo's flaws, they treat every in-house game like a work of art. Delays are common. Even cancelations are fairly common, but that is why Nintendo games almost never go on sale. They have a reputation to maintain whereas Sonic has been all over the place from masterpieces like Adventure 2 to disasters like Sonic 06.
Sadly, Sega views Sonic the same way Game Freak views Pokémon: as a cash cow that sells on name alone. They treat games purely as a business, not an art.
Perhaps you never heard of Mario's downs like Color Splash
@@zeroxenoverse9251 Those are spin-offs.
We're talking about the mainline franchise.
We're not comparing Hotel Mario and Sonic's Schoolhouse.
Agreed, I think SEGA is starting just now to see that Sonic is actually worth investing in as a game IP due to the success of Frontiers and the movie franchise. So we will see what the future holds in the next 5-10 years
I grew up with Sonic, so naturally I’m always gonna prefer Sonic over Mario, but I’m a fan of both franchises. I think both Sonic Superstars and Super Mario Wonder are amazing in their own ways, but I believe 2D Sonic is slightly better than 2D Mario simply because of the speed factor. I will say though, from what I’ve seen, Mario Wonder is probably the Mario game that, in certain sections, comes the closest to matching the speed that the Sonic games are known for, while Sonic Superstars feels like Sega’s version of the New Super Mario Bros series with the 3D graphics, the 4 player coop, and introducing new power ups and new levels, while still feeling familiar to those who played through the classics.
in my personal opinion i like 2D mario more because i don't like the speed factor. it just doesn't work that well, especially in 2D.
Same. It sucks to sonic always losing to mario in most peoples eyes tho. 😔
@@aquaponieeeYou are wrong. Speed Factor DO work in 2D. Let me explain why: remember when Yuji Naka took inspiration from Mario's first level??? It was to see how FAST he could beat level in Super Mario. So basically you have contradicted yourself.
@@aquaponieeemario fanTARD
@Skezzin7698 If the guy does not like a "speed factor" in 2D games he shouldn't say that "speed factors don't work in 2D games" because then he's trying to state a fact rather than an opinion. For me personally I actually like speed factors in 2D games and it works very well for Sonic the hedgehog titles Even in 3D games like Sonic Frontiers, Sonic Adventures 1 & 2 and Sonic Dream Team. The 3D Sonic will FOREVER be BETTER than 3D Super Mid... I mean Super Mario games.
And for me personally I think Sonic is better the Mario!
I honestly think it's just cause of the currect bias people have against Sonic, and the fact that Mario games and Sonic games are both so drastically different with how they play and what they try to achieve. Another thing would be the release dates being so close and people rushing to finish Superstars in time for Wonder. There are other factors, but I feel that those two might be the biggest offenders.
@@andrebabani7152yeah yeah Mario better 🙄
I'd say it's that people have an expectation of sonic, and the conflict between 2D and 3D fans.
mario doesn't have this issue because they routinely deliver both 2D and 3D games. that and mario fans are really accustomed to change. we rarely get more than 2 mario games in the same style. mario bros 1 and lost levels is dramatically different from mario bros 2 and bros 3 feels wildly different from everything that came before. mario started out in donkey kong and demolition crew. mario world was a little different from 3, but then world 2 was a totally different game. even the 3D games are almost all totally different games. There isn't much expectation for "what a mario game is".
sonic though, sonic 1,2,CD and 3&knuckles are very similar games. the mechanics feel the same, and you'll be just as comfortable with any of them as you would the others. they more or less feel like one continuous game. this is why sonic 4 was so utterly hated, because it didn't feel like the next part of this continuous game. fans have this expectation of 2D sonic. this is also why mania was so beloved, because it DID feel like it continued the continuous game. Sonic team just doesn't seem to understand this expectation, and wants to just copy nintendo with random zany ideas (sometimes copy too much).
then, among the fanbase, there is a huge division. because there are many continuous subserieses in the sonic franchise. worse yet, most of these get abandoned and replaced with newer ones. 2D classic sonic died and was replaced with adventure and advance. 06 killed the adventure format, and boost format replaced adventure and advance with rush and unleashed. the boost formula has been around until whatever you'd call frontiers. lost worlds was also different, but didn't do well, so it was just a one off, but frontiers is successful, so it'll likely be the new 3D format going forward.
each format has it's hardcore fans, but classic 2D fans clash the most with adventure and especially boost style fans. 3D fans think that 2D is inherently inferior to 3D and shouldn't exist, adventure and classic fans think boost is a lazy boring boost to win mode, sonic 3&K fans fight fervently with Adventure 2 fans for title of best game in the series.
advance and rush fans tend to be pretty chill though for some reason.
so, for super stars, the 3D fans probably see it as a waste of time and a threat to their preferred format, and 2D classic fans are judging it based on the expectations of the one long continuous game.
@@NebulaSondo I got to spill the beans
Well said! As someone else who loved the game but didn’t think it was as good as it could’ve been I 💯 percent agree with everything you said. Being a sonic fan doesn’t mean that you have to follow the series blindly and allow mediocrity. I remember Sonic the hedgehog being a HUGE deal in the 90’s and at one point his games were arguably as good (if not better in some circles) as Mario’s so I know sega can do it again if they take their time with making games and giving it the extra polish that it deserves at times. It doesn’t make you any less of a fan to have high expectations of a series that you love and know deserves better treatment cause you’ve seen how great it was with a little TLC. I wanna see my childhood hero get his spot back in the sun and not pointing stuff out like you said that the mass majority all agree with is a problem isn’t going to help him achieve it!
When Superstars first leaked I followed some treads on 4chan to gauge people's reactions and everyone was so negative, some even saying Superstars was a mess on the same level as Sonic 06. Then I got the game and played for myself, and I liked it, a lot.
I had zero hype for this game, but it is a straight up good 2D Sonic game. Not sure if it is worth full price, but level design is very good, with many branching paths and little to no automation, controls are just like Mania's. In fact, the more I replay the levels the more I like the game.
Yeah when I see people saying its sonic 06 or sonic 4 etc. its like HOW?!
@@SonicHubYTThose discussions started with leaked versions, which means it was played by people so excited to play it that they couldn't wait for official release. People who are so hyped are nearly guaranteed to be Sonic fans who wanted to see Super Sonic ending. That means after suffering through the final boss of Story Mode, they played Trip's Story which makes all the issues of the game even worse. Spiky enemies everywhere, bottomless pits and other insta-kill obstacles ruin level design, bosses which were already waitfests became twice as long (or longer if they die), Fangbot takes forever, each attempt takes forever and can be ruined by tons of various instakill attacks that restart the battle from the start and Super Sonic boss fight is just tons of waiting which are the best utilized for praying to RNGesus to spawn friends with rings, the worst final boss in the entire series. That's the final impression they got - worse level design, boring bosses that take forever and two terrible final bosses. Most problems about Superstars are backloaded to Trip's Story and Last Story. And after they were done with those two - they came to complain online with terrible last impression.
Superstars is great if you stick just to Story Mode. Most average people will do that, and praise the game, while fans who couldn't even wait for release end up with bitter aftertaste.
@@Gnidel Good analysis that makes sense. Crazy enough I really like playing as trip as a character her story just sucks towards the end and the bosses as well. When I replay though I will be only sticking to story which is pretty solid minus some of the waiting around during bosses
That’s just 4chan. They hate everything and are always negative lol
@@Gnidel With that being said, I've always wondered if the bad IGN review of Sonic Unleashed HD was cause the reviewer suffered through EggmanLand which no doubt would've left a nasty taste in his mouth.
Mario will ALWAYS stay the GOAT!
Me toooooooooooooooooo
funny how mario wonder does multiplayer better than a game literally focused around multiplayer
Pretty sure Mario is a veteran in multiplayer and this is sonic’s first time
@@AJKC-kr6wh2d sonic just doesn’t translate well to multiplayer
Sonic and Mario are both the greatest video game characters, they’re both great franchises so it doesn’t really matter what video game characters we like I like them both sonic. The hedgehog is my favorite. Also super Mario is my favorite too.
If sonic superstars have a sequel. I hope 2 things
1. better music
2. More unique innovative zones.
Like a microscopic zone , an art zone, a mad max esque zone, a barnyard, a construction building in a city, a bayou, a graveyard, a persian temple, a medieval castle..
I dunno. more new stuff for a 2D sonic game.
Ignoring what Metacritic users think of a game since a site should never decide if a game is good or bad for someone, people need to understand first is that big Mario fanboys are the issue and the fact that they only praise classic Sonic games over the modern 3D ones as well as Mania. I've seen many comments over the years where they would say that "Sonic needs to return to the past and stay there" thinking that will really happen. First, that's just their personal opinion and not even a valid criticism. Second, Mario started off also as a 2D platformer then went 3D later on starting with Mario 64, a game heavily praised from the time and even today. Sonic goes 3D, criticism wasn't well recieved unless it was Sonic Adventure 1 and 2. Sega made Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1 and 2, two games that were meant to return back to it's roots in the form of a 3D gaming experience. It went to recieve heavy criticism and backlash for silly reasons like "bad momentum, terrible controls, slow start, sluggish pacing and the fact that it wasn't a classic 2D Sonic game. I liked both of those games and I will never understand people's criticisms for it. However, another 3D Mario game comes along during the time and it gets wide praise, the Wii and Wii U versions. Yes, the reason is because of fanboyism and forced personal opinions. "Mario is just better" is not a good reason to give Sonic a bad rep. 9s and 10s across the board for Wonder while reviewers and critics just laugh at and completely demolish Superstars. It's sickening.
For me its pretty simple: Mario Wonder is just another evolution going back to New Super Mario. Nintendo took a risk with changing course for Mario, people loved it, so they kept doing it. They iterated little by little with each new release and threw away anything that didnt work, while keeping everything that did.
Sega did the same thing with Sonic Mania: explore going back to Sonics roots, truly going back to it not this "classic Sonic" crap, and people loved it. But then they went "Nah lets throw that away and keep trying new things"
And hey dont get me wrong Superstars is decent. Its not a horrible game. But it doesnt have the level design, the look, the feel, and definitely not the boss design true Genesis Sonic games have, and this insistence in including some "modern" stuff drags it down. We didnt ask for 2.5D redesign for Sonic that makes everyone look like "classic" Sonic and packs levels with gimmicks, we just wanted Mania 2.
Perfect comment, should’ve just done a mania 2 not this “classic sonic” bs
Mario had no due date
While sega always give sonic a time crunch lol
It doesn't matter if Mario is better than Sonic, I grew up with the blue blur.
Facts
9:15 Mario Wonder has more simple level design, that’s gonna be the case.
As someone who plays a lot of Mario maker 2 and Classic Sonic Sim (Sonic & Mario level makers) it’s a lot easier to make a good mario level so that makes sense
@@SonicHubYT yo I play a LOT of CSS and I’m not being narcissistic but I think my Sonic levels are pretty good! I don’t play Mario maker 2 cos I’m too brokand not interested enough.
Mario Maker 2 is one of my favorite games is factually better than that Sonic maker thing I mean I played it but it wasn't really possible to make a good level for me but when Mario Maker it was so fun and also they should have had the online play from Mario Wonder Mario wonder is a 10 out of 10 game to be honest but to be fair they should have had like the multiplayer like in Mario Maker 2 what you could actually play with different people not as a ghost but like a physical player that would have been way better
How about the fact you can't start a fresh run with Trip, because you already collected the emeralds on that file and had to beat the game already to unlock her? Maybe you can purposefully avoid getting them on a file, but then that'd be a whole run through just to set up for a fresh run for her, one time only. (unless there is a way, and I missed it or something)
I almost feel bad disliking Superstars because they clearly were trying to give value for money, with the big levels and boss fights. But I got to the Cyber City(?) boss and got so frustrated that I figured I’d rather not get annoyed trying to have fun. I’m annoyed about most things in life as is
Lets put it this way: Sega's last release of a Sonic game that had universal acclaim was in the late 90s, and that was Sonic Adventure.
Mario's last game that had universal acclaim was less than a month ago.
Mario games have always had much better level design then Sonic. That is why they have a much better flow to them. For a game series that emphasizes speed there is often a lot of tedious, slow paced level design in many Sonic games. Waiting for elevators to move, enemies that jump out of nowhere and punish the player for running fast, missing important paths and items because you couldn't stop fast enough, etc.
Sega doesn't have what it takes to compete. They release unfinished products at overprice, take all eternity to fix the problems which modders are capable of fixing, and they charge money for DLC that should already be in the game. It's the same bullsh-t over and over again.
I was laughing that they did to my boy sonic like that lol, they literally give him 75 on the reviews 😂
I haven’t played either of the two games, but I do plan to pick them up eventually… but at the same time I felt Sonic SuperStars was pretty much doomed to fail. The game was already receiving bad feedback before it even came out, the competition was way too much for the game to handle and the game eventually got overshadowed and crushed by not just Super Mario Bros Wonder, but Spider-Man 2 as well…. just completely sad to see this happen yet again…
Sonic really had no chance if I’m being honest… this same thing happened with the Mario movie a few months ago where Sonic got completely destroyed and now here we are a few months later and Sonic just gets crushed by Mario again….
At this point I’m not even surprised that Sonic lost to Mario because he always was in his shadow and probably forever will be…
Do a video on fixing the game. And ideas for dlc
- achievements - show who you beat the level with, show if you beat the golden enemy.
- add difficulty levels. Easy adds lot of springs and remove pit falls for younger kids and add difficult node making a gold version of bosses with new moves.
- battle mode fix - add item boxes and new items, add badnicks , add sonic and friends. Do badnicks vs metal vs heros mode, add moves to robot.
- add custom robot on story mode.
- add bean and bark as bosses and add maybe another player to play as. Either from the comics, or bomb and heavy from chaotic or Honey from Sonic Fighrers etc.
- add fire shields , lighting and water this could add bare min meta to the battles to make it harder
- make sure every level has 3 acts, a fruit stage and exclusive character stage
- revamp powers
Sonic superstars and super Mario bros wonder looks so fire can't wait to play these games
Actually sonic superstars did not loose and super mario wonder did not loose either. Both games are incredible games that are really interesting and cool so its basically a tie.
sega isn't broke, shit they bought atlus in the last decade and had two of the most popular RPG releases in forever. they may not have nintendo money but they are certainly not broke like you imply.
when you talk about their market cap, atlus is like another 2 billion, sega owns more too
Lmao bruh I didn’t say SEGA is broke I said Nintendo has a lot more money than SEGA so they can afford time (most important) and extra budget to polish their games
@@SonicHubYT you basically said they didn't have the funding to sit on the sonic game and polish it like nintendo did. persona 5 took a good decade to release and sega still gave them 3 years to put it out after sega acquired them lol.
I love Mania but I do feel it's just slightly overrated, some of the levels go on for a bit too long. I feel like the level design in Superstars better represents that classic formula.
THANK YOU!!! Mania is so damn overrated and I've seen people act like it is the best.
One thing I don’t see mentioned that often is that superstars sonic doesn’t control exactly the same as mania he’s much slower and can’t create his own speed u can only go really fast when the game makes you and his jump is harder to control in the air, I think the did this on purpose to help with the multiplayer so you don’t just leave the other player behind
"not gonna spoil the new character."
"in trips story-"
That wasnt me
@@SonicHubYT
That's what they all say, Sonic T. Hub.
User score is almost identical for both games (9.1 vs 8.9). It's the paid game critics that give Sonic mixed reviews.
"The campaign of the new character, I'm not gonna spoil it."
*3 minutes later*
"Final boss of Trip's story is hard." *shows final boss*
That wasn’t me
@@SonicHubYT8:46 "With the new character I'm not gonna spoil it"
10:49-11:05 you show the final boss of base game and Trip's final boss.
@@thecocopopsman8578 nah that was someone else
The main reason why I chose Mario Wonder over Sonic Superstars was the soundtrack. I know there are a few good tracks in Superstars but after the amazing soundtrack of Sonic Mania, Superstars was a huge letdown.
The soundtrack in superstars is bad but gameplay is what matters for me
Great video! Mania is definitely one of the best 2D Side Scrolling Sonic games, being one of the highest rated games. I also like Superstars, but I'm surprised that it lost to Super Mario Wonder. I'd give the game a 9.5/10, because I think the bosses may be the only problem. For Mario Wonder, I'd probably give it a 9.7/10 because I think the animations are really awesome and they took their time with it. At least we know that when it comes to games, they sometimes delay because either they need more time or making sure it's amazing as possible. I do like Superstars, but we all know that the game is not perfect. I think it pretty well. For Frontiers, I have more negative thoughts about it than Superstars. The visuals in that game were amazing in the trailer, but they gameplay and slightly mid visuals are the problems I have with it. In Super Mario Wonder, there are way less issues for me, because the gameplay and animations are really smooth and way less garbage. Those boss fights are very creative and a little more fun than Superstars. In that game, they're way too long and the mechanics are rigged at times. It's also surprising it actually doesn't have online multi-player unlike Wonder. That's another reason why I think that game is almost perfect. Mario is definitely a very creative platform type game, with Sonic is always about being fast, which a lot of people are not used to. I still think that Superstars is absolutely fantastic, because it's just really good to see how much work and effort they put into these Sonic games. Super Mario Wonder is also good, and it's also not perfect but it's good enough. I'll wait and see where Nintendo and Sega will go next! Again, great video, Chris!
not gonna lie, i dont see why everyone likes the 2d sonic games so much, sure they are good but i only see them as A tier games (except for sonic 2 the goat)
@@TailsHub7 Because the 3D Sonic games ALWAYS have problems beyond just having story segments locked behind challenges that are prohibitively difficult (such as frequent glitches in most of them). Superstars has glitches, but for the most part you need to really go out of your way to find them.
@@SBaby i dont experience glitches in most 3d sonic games, plus all games have problems. they arent reallly exclusive to sonic
@@TailsHub7 Sonic games have a reputation of flinging you off ledges, and there's a glitch in Frontiers that basically lets you skip half of certain areas. I don't recall a single Mario game that ever had something like that unless it was intentional and actually part of the game.
@@SBaby when did sonic games have a reputation of flining you offf ledges 💀 also stop comparing a 50 billion dollar company games to a 3 billion dollar company games
Halfway through video only, at this point I’m just mad that people are still trashing on Sonic Frontiers. (I have not played mania yet) Sonic Frontiers is easily the best sonic game by a long shot
I really like Frontiers too
Sonic Pocket Adventure, 10/10
"Masterpiece"
-IGN
Ok they were right
2 main things: Difficulty curve and reward system. Sonic does not feel rewarding for getting new skills. Sonic does not need the difficulty spike of having instant death llasers ignoring rings and long swaths of nothing in boss fights that go from playing Yoshi's Story's Cotton Candy Boss to Do you wanna be the guy? difficulty.
Good point.
I like superstars but I think Mario wonder is better it’s just really creative
It was joever for Superstars once Wonder was announced. Ngl if Spider Man 2 n Wonder release in 2024, then maybe I could have gotten Superstars n I think Superstars would have sold more. Not saying the sells were a flop, it probably sold well, but with Wonder in the mix, I'm a bit worried tho.
Yeah SuperStars was pretty much doomed to fail
@@HeroTheHedgehog999you know superstars is released on all of the consoles right?
@@dontbecomelgbt Multiplat games can still fail in terms of sales. Look at games like Crash Team Rumble, Overwatch 2, Balan Wonderworld, etc. Not saying Superstars flopped cuz despite the release of Mario Wonder n Spider Man 2, im pretty sure the game still made decent buck for Sega/Sonic Team and it will probably keep growing once they drop the price to $40 or lower along with the announcement of dlc 4 Superstars
I love how objective he is and unbiased
But superstars wasn't a complete L for sonic either because it was successful not as successful as Mario wonder but in the end of the day it's still a good game maybe not better than Mario wonders(I'm a sonic fan too but I'm not gonna gaslight myself say Superstars is better) but it's still a good game and in the end of the day it's not that important and deep...this is coming From someone who enjoyed both games
All I'm hoping for is atleast superstars get a plus treatment like mania and origins did.
Lets just call Mario Brothers Wonder what it is after you get the grapple vine badge...:
Italian Spiderman😂
😂😂😂
I think it's just the timing of them releasing the same week and Sonic being more expensive in my country, a 2d mario hasnt be out for a while and you have some faith the game will be good cause it's made by nintendo, so I went with mario wonder and il get sonic superstars later when it goes on sale and mario games rarely go on sale
As a mario and sonic fan, i think both games look great, still getting mario wonder tho
3 reasons:
Critics hate Sonic
Mario is more iconic
Also Mario didn’t win, it was Spider-Man
What’s funny is Mario actually beat Spider man 💀
Sonic Superstars is a good game but Mario Wonder is just another whole level.
As a mario fan, all sonic games are awesome i played lots of sonic frontiers.
I wait for your video. I really like the videos. A big fan of yours ❤❤
Son8c superstars is a really good game
True Winner: Marvel's Spider-Man 2
Spider man 2 is better than sonic superstars
*Marvel's Block-Man 2
@@quandaledingleofficial6 tf that suppose to mean?
@@DayDreamHasGoldI’d imagine the comment was made as a reference to that one glitch in sm2 where spider man turns into a white cube
@@avocadeous ah okay
Saying that Frontiers is not polished is really wrong, the buget put into a game dosen't matter at all, the main reason is that Sonic's Superstars bosses are just harder than even Cuphead while Mario wonder is the easier game, Sonic is most of the time the harder game, Sonic is easy but every Sonic game is easy but has that part of the game that is really hard and stop us from replaying the game.
says hes not gonna spoil the secret player and then uses screen cap of them and then says there name 3 minutes later LOOOl
also mario wonder has singing piranha plant
both games will be the big two holiday games,and sonic was just as great as wonder i think,huge comeback for sonic
there was no competition to start with 💀
I mean the developers of the games should be competing with their peers in the industry or that’s a huge problem for us as consumers
"Not gonna spoil it".. casually shows character
I honestly prefer Superstars over Wonder
The only gripes i have with superstars is the emerald powers doing the same functional thing for at least 2-3 of them, the multiplayer, and the chaos emerald stage difficulty curves, specifically the green and purple emeralds being complete BS and the normal chases with plenty to swing on are more fun to do.
dont forget that mods are kinda 75% the reason why sonic games also thriving
Atleast superstars is a challenge and wonder is just like so easy
I feel that Sega just doesn’t have much budget or time to make these games universally acclaimed. Sega did have more budget than Mania but that was used on the new graphics, animations etc. I personally love these games but one of the major downfalls of Sonic Superstars was the inconsistent OST. Don’t get me wrong Jun is a music KING but this music style is pretty controversial and I know that the music would be better with Jun’s signature guitar!
Jun has to never make a classic styled sound track again fr lol
@@SonicHubYTyeah
Despite the annoying overhype Nintendo did with Wonder (Which not to offend Nintendo fans, hated the overhype Nintendo has been doing including TOTK). I had fun with Mario Bros Wonder.
Yes finally someone who agrees with Mario! 😁😁
Of course it's hype - it's ONLY the face of video games himself and the most enduring, legendary fantasy/adventure series
@@TheSultan1470fax
Everyone is always biased with Sonic,
Sonic will win someday, no hate to Mario or anything, but Sonic deserves atleast ONE win at this point. While sonic team doesn’t have the highest budget, they’ve been doing astronomical for what they do have. You can tell that sega has been working soooooo hard these last couple of years when it comes to the blue blur. We got 2 movies, frontiers (amazing 3D sonic game, change my mind), origins, prime, origins +, superstars, 3 incredible updates for frontiers, murder of sonic, and even sonic & friends, yes, the little tiktok videos or whatever. My point is that they DO care about their fans, deny it all you want. Theyre even coming out with a THIRD movie now. They deserve the world for what they’re doing for us. Say what you want about forces, 06, lost world, colors ultimate etc. let’s focus on what theyre doing NOW. Mario’s not perfect either.
SONIC FAN WE STAND FOR HIM NO MATTER WHAT OR HOW HE FAILS sonic and mario should be allies AND SONIC SHOULD BE STRONGER
The reason is because modern Sega and Sonic Team are mediocre. Sonic as a franchise fell off long ago. And while he’s slowly getting better, I doubt he’ll ever reach the heights of Mario and Zelda ever again.
probably the fact of consistency. nintendo are consistently putting out good mario games over the past few years and sega arent really very reliable when it comes to that
I don't even see anyone saying they like superstars besides sonic hub man yall are so ungrateful Sega. Managed to put out 3 sonic games for us this year and yall still not grateful maybe we should get the forces treatment and wait another 5 to 7 years maybe then you guys will like that
Mario > Sonic 🤓
Sonic > mario 🤓
Mario and Sonic as a duo 🗿 🍷
that is a w opinion right there
Like imagine trips story I am still stuck on trips story 😭 can speed run super Mario wonder faster than superstars
Sonic superstars is a good game overall, but ya I’d recommend getting Mario wonder or Spider-Man 2 over it any day of the week. At that point it doesn’t matter if ur making a good that good when ur competitors are making games that are great
I have yet to get Wonder, went with Sonic and Spider-Man 2. Elephant Mario hasn't sold me. We need legitimate Lego Mario and Lego Sonic games, tho.
IM 4 hours into wonder in switch and ordered sonic super stars and donkey kong tf for x mas present from my mom.
Nintendo should make a sonic game
Did Nintendo actually spend significantly more money on Wonder though? I think the problem Sega and plenty of other companies have is there approach. Nintendo have a handful of people brainstorming and planning things out isn't as costly as a game being scrapped and changed around constantly by people in upper management interfering. Look at what happened to Anthem. Upper management wanted the player to be able to fly throughout the entire game in a game that didn't have levels designed around that. Pretty much all of the work had to be scrapped and the content that made it into the final game represented a very small portion of the total development time. Nintendo prototypes and works out all of the really tough stuff before all of the real, expensive work begins so they don't have to rebuild detailed assets and such a bunch of times.
I’m not a hater with all due respect bro is defending sonic superstars but Nintendo is just the goat there just like that you know?
As far as sales it was always going to lose lol I'm a much bigger fan of Sonic than Mario and still prefer sonic even now. But it all boils down to popularity at the end of the day.
Why are you not accepting the fact that superstars is mediocre, i get its sonic but this game is mid, bosses are too long and have one hit kos,the game is too short for a full priced game, the ost is ruined bc of jun senoue, and and you're not going fast like in the previous classic titles.
@@quandaledingleofficial6 Because your personal opinion is not a fact first of all, secondly it doesn't matter one way or the other because it changes nothing about what I said.
Mario Wonder isn’t considered better because “popularity”. Mario’s last game is widely considered mid (New Super Mario Bros. U). But they learned from that and gave us Mario Maker and now Wonder.
Sonic is just made by a team that barely knows what they’re doing and won’t hand over the reins to a team with passion and creativity. I really wish there was a good team behind Sonic because my first ever game was Sonic the Hedgehog and made me fall in love with games.
@@christopherbradley7149 Who said Mario was considered better because of popularity? Lol where did I state either game was better than the other?
Yall need to read and understand before you comment lol
Sonic is better than Mario!
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Agreed
Not to mention what Sega snuck in to the steam version of Sonic Superstars. That surely can't be helping in the slightest. So..I got all 7 emeralds, and didn't even realize you could change characters between stages or anything until I got to that dreaded final boss fight. Where I spent hours trying to figure out how to stay alive long enough to beat it. I get Sega not wanting you to quickly destroy bosses like the classic games. But it's true 10 plus minutes for a Sonic boss fight is unbearable. And the next day when I came back and was able to switch from Sonic, I was able to defeat the final boss.
I used the shadow clone chaos emerald ability just to get through some of these fights... Which oh yeah.. If you aren't careful.. They drop your super form when you get to the boss fights, so if you aren't quick enough or paying attention, you'll end up losing your rings to some sort of BS and you know, can't go super without 50 rings. And used the one where you can blast yourself around the level quite often. The plant based one is absolutely garbage and very rarely did the all seeing ability did anything as it's only meant for specific areas. I don't think I used Chaos Control at all or even the one that that turns you into water at all. And that's another thing.. I don't like that you have to tap the button to put it on the specific emerald ability you want to use. I'm used to how the wheel works for Link's abilities where you hold and pick. That's all I have to compare that too.
I do remember when seeing the trailer, I said somewhere it was Sonic 4 all over again.. And while better than Sonic 4.. It still isn't far off. I'm very much used to the classic physics of rolling into a ball and gaining momentum.. Don't expect that here in Superstars. Immediately slows you down. Other than that, I guess I had a little fun trying to run through the stages.
And don't even get me started what Frontiers did once the update dropped. It literally became unplayable for me. I get like 1 or 2 frames a second now. I don't know how that happened or why it happened when before it was running on par. So I can't even finish that one.
Edited note: I need to get the Mario game yet. And probably will soon.
Because wonder is a better game. Just saved you 17 minutes of your time
...
I (Personally) Disagree.
Thanks dude! But I actually wanted to know more
I think Mario wonder is faster because of he badge mechanic
What you just said is so true and you have a very big point more people should think like you