Dude you are spot on. Same reason these big dealers who are RUclipsrs are calling CGC the victims. They are trying to protect their livelihood which is tied to the value of CGC as a company. The social media age has supercharged the pump and dump of the comic market.
You’re not wrong. I’ve built my channel off of talking about cool books that never make those lists and saying I’d go insane if I had to talk about the usual suspects every week/month. My phone rings daily with calls about new collections. Took one yesterday where a guy found an ASM129. SO much stuff still out there. Thanks for the video!
funny, I found them a few months ago and immediately felt like CT had motives. What they were idk, but like the video says, very car salesmen like, and I dont like that. Glad others see that too.
@@madvizion742 When I entered this space, youtube comic book content, I was incredibly excited to hear people talk about comics. Tom and Reggie were probably the first channels I watched. But something seemed off, particularly with Tom. They were so aggresive. Now I watch these damn creators from Missouri like JP's Budget, Alex the hoarder, and Como. I really appreciate their laid back mid-western style.
@@robphoenix1182 CT? Yep, I'd rather not give them the views. The mid-western guys may not have huge channels, but they are pleasant and informative to watch.
We actually do know the circulation for issues back in the day especially in an age specifically dominated by newstand distribution because the publishers were required to print the circulation numbers in the books on annual basis and this gave you a good indication what the average production numbers were for individual series …. This doesn’t tell you the sell through numbers , but we don’t know those today either …. Because of the changes in the distribution system we no longer have the circulation numbers for series not distributed exclusively by Diamond.
I mention this on my channel. My question would be how many ghost comics are on the census. This is where people resubmit the same books over and over to try to get higher grades creating multiple instances of the same book on the census.
Couldn’t agree more man, and I just randomly got into comics again! Of course has nothing to do with the dumpster fire the sportscard space has been 😝👏I agree the FOMO is annoying. People die, people get divorced, moms have garage sales…there’s tons of this stuff out there hahaha
It would be fun to do some data research if the information is accessible. For instance, year over year, how many new books are graded and what percentage of each grade they fall into out of the keys. I'd like to also take some known print runs, figure which are graded, out of the print runs and try to do an estimate of destruction of issues over time. For instance after 40 years, how many issues survive as an estimate, and then begin to apply this data to comics to see what we come up with. Maybe even create a popularity index based on prices, amount of activity etc. There has to be a gold mine of statistical data out there for comics to take advantage of.
You make very good points. I have been thinking about this for years. I also have to say that I am a part time and fairly consistent hunter. I have bought numerous collections in the past 10 years, but it isn’t easy for one, and I only found Hulk 181 once, in ten years! There’s a TON of post 1980-1990 comics out there, but from my experience it is much harder to find pre 1980 stuff, especially in high grade. Comic stores are the worst, they have people with no clue walk in all the time to sell collections and they make tons of profits. Plus many owners travel to buy huge collections for Pennie’s on the dollar and then store them in a warehouse. Just thought I would give my perspective. Keep up the good work!
I'm with you, but the FOMO is real with the perpetual comics on these lists. Personally I'm loving digging through for more obscure and cool books to cover them instead.
Ya'll nailed it. There is no urgency in buying. Nothing is really going up in value anymore. More people are selling than buying and sales are slowing down to a crawl. I believe 2025 is going to be the best buying period in the last decade. More and more of these off-grid warehouse finds are going to find their way to eBay and suck the last bit of capital out of the market. Here's my example of the warehouse issue:I've been buying copies of X-Men #150 from a guy on ebay in bulk. 10 packs, 20 packs, 50 packs. All are pristine. They were clearly bagged and boarded over 20 years ago based on the rippling of the bag. This ain't a particularly valuable issue, it's just an issue I like a lot. But at the time this was pulled out of the comic book market/supply (1981) it was just a random book. If people are still sitting on pristine, warehouse finds for this random book in 1981...don't ya think someone did the same in 1984 with ASM #252? The part of the supply that can be scraped and quantified objectively via GPA/eBay/GoCollect, must represent less than 5% of the total supply of books on the market. Some people refuse to acknowledge the warehousing problem because they're just predatory pumpers, but a lot of people just find it difficult to factor in unknown variables but ignoring it isn't the right answer. The RUclips scammers are calculating and promoting the parts that are easy to calculate and ignoring all the negative variables. That's weird.
I have an ungraded copy of Hulk 181. I don’t often watch the videos about too 5 sellers. I’m not interested. I subbed to you so I look forward to other content from you.
There guys who have long boxes of raw Hulk 181s they are not rare but the demand for it is still strong. Supply is a lot but the demand is still strong so dosnt matter how many keep popping up raw and graded. If the demand Is strong there can be 50,000 copies on the census for all I care
If you want to get a good idea of how many copies of Hulk 181 was printed, go look at the letters page of that title during that year. You dee, once a year every comic book would let the world know what was the average number of copies printed for that title.
There were relatively huge print runs of all Marvel Bronze age books. A quick Google of Hulk #181 puts it in the 350,000-400,00 range. By comparison Savage Dragon apparently ships less than 5000 copies these days.
I don't disagree, but yer example of th value of Wolverine 1 is also based on movie spec that'll be irrelevant in five yrs. It's not my game, but th ppl who are playin it need that short term trend info.
Ok couple of things: 1. You see the books over and over again because that is indeed what is selling. Spawn 1, Venom 1, IH 181, NM98, sell the most in volume week in week out for the most part. Most RUclipsrs will just report what the data says from the top selling sites. I don’t see why there is an issue here. 2. Secondly, most people who collect books must do their research. CGC census IS NOT accurate census for all comics that are out there. It is how many have been SENT IN. So people using the census as a estimation of the true population are idiots. 3. There actually have been very close estimates of comic print runs that have been reported since the late 1990s from comicchron. All comic collectors know of this resource. Ofcourse it does not go back that far. However any modern comic we do have pretty accurate print runs.
Thank You!! This video talks about Wolverine #1 which has been hot for over a year. That book is rarely seen at shows or conventions. The book is hot and flys off any shelf and Ebay. I saw one at my local LCS Thursday and someone bought it while I was there. I was talking to the manager and saying I haven't seen a Wolverine #1 in a while and he agreed. Bingo sold right in front of me. Secondly he fails to mention a book like Ultimate Fallout which has skyrocketed over the last 5 years. That book isn't coming down. This is the first time I've watch this guys channel and the last. Glad to see you shed some actual light on the hobby.
Good feedback, thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts. As I said in the vid, I think a lot of comic book youtubers do a good job. I don't have an issue with reporting on data, it's how the data is sold to me the viewer that I take issue with, when it happens. I wouldn't assume 'all comic collectors' know of comicchron. This is my first time hearing of it, will check it out!
@@collectiblesdad every book has a potential to fall. Even bluechip stocks like Tesla or Amazon fall. I don’t know what that actually means. If you don’t understand long term growth potential, then please do more research. Comics just like stocks have ebbs and flows (while unlike stocks comics have no intrinsic value, they have perceived values, ie. A comic is just paper, while a stock is a fractiontional portion of a company you actually buy). That said, you need to look long term growth for a comic (for UF 4) sure it will dip but over the next 10 years (not counting 2021 because it’s a true anomaly) has the comic seen measurable value rise? If so, then we can safely say the comic has increased in value. NOTE: seeing values rise drastically in a very short time (days to a month) is more or less over for even “blue chip” comics, the comic book boom of 2020-2021 is long gone and we may never see one in another 15-20 years. It’s definitely a cycle-I’ve been through it twice. Believe me UF4 is a great investment. It wasn’t that heavily printed (ie. relative to NM98, Hulk 181) and will be immensely popular book with a generation of collectors wanting that issue as soon as Miles Morales goes to live action, and sees much more media and merchandising over the next few decades. So investing in a book like that when it is in a nadir state is not a bad idea at all. Again do your research and check your finances before you pay for a $900-1000 book. Every investment is a risk, since the inception of investing.
@@collectiblesdad you must check out shows that only give you data then. If you the watch the immensely popular (and IMO best top 10 show in the business) watch Ben Stein top 10 show every Friday, he just reports what he sees. It’s been that way for almost a decade. He has no skin in the game (doesn’t have a store, isn’t selling exclusives) so he tells it like he sees it. Watch that one if you are disillusioned of “the others”.
I'm in the uk. Anything we buy has to be imported. I would expect at a minimum 50% of books are being bagged & boarded given you have to make somewhat of an effort to actually buy a comic. Thats a lot of unaccounted stock.
About 15yrs ago I bought a PSA 1 Knut Rockney rookie. The census across the board was super low and the cheapest I could get it for was 600 today that same card is worth 300 because the census slowly climbed over the years. So it not only happens it happens quicker with non-mint grades.
No, this second channel just covers all of the 'other' collectibles, outside of sports cards. Thought it made more sense to separate, different audiences
That documentary is going to increase the demand more than the supply it adds. The story is endearing and will spark interest. Also, enormous Gold Mines and Oil is discovered fron tome to time and the value continues to go up. Nice video and energy and I appreciate your insight.
Supply exceeds demand by several orders of magnitude. You're ignoring the reality of print runs and you're letting social media spam act as a stand in for "demand" and that's ridiculous. Demand is low. Supply is high. Prices are high. The market has shifted and you're describing how it used to be. Demand for comics will never, EVER, approach the level it was at during Marvel Phase 1.
Dude you are spot on. Same reason these big dealers who are RUclipsrs are calling CGC the victims. They are trying to protect their livelihood which is tied to the value of CGC as a company. The social media age has supercharged the pump and dump of the comic market.
You’re not wrong.
I’ve built my channel off of talking about cool books that never make those lists and saying I’d go insane if I had to talk about the usual suspects every week/month.
My phone rings daily with calls about new collections. Took one yesterday where a guy found an ASM129. SO much stuff still out there.
Thanks for the video!
Dude, I unsubscribed from comic Tom years ago
funny, I found them a few months ago and immediately felt like CT had motives. What they were idk, but like the video says, very car salesmen like, and I dont like that. Glad others see that too.
@@madvizion742 When I entered this space, youtube comic book content, I was incredibly excited to hear people talk about comics. Tom and Reggie were probably the first channels I watched. But something seemed off, particularly with Tom. They were so aggresive.
Now I watch these damn creators from Missouri like JP's Budget, Alex the hoarder, and Como. I really appreciate their laid back mid-western style.
I said it a long while ago, still believe it. I watch some of them to know what NOT to buy.
@@robphoenix1182 CT? Yep, I'd rather not give them the views. The mid-western guys may not have huge channels, but they are pleasant and informative to watch.
The reason I focus on my collection and not speculation. Great video
We actually do know the circulation for issues back in the day especially in an age specifically dominated by newstand distribution because the publishers were required to print the circulation numbers in the books on annual basis and this gave you a good indication what the average production numbers were for individual series …. This doesn’t tell you the sell through numbers , but we don’t know those today either …. Because of the changes in the distribution system we no longer have the circulation numbers for series not distributed exclusively by Diamond.
I mention this on my channel. My question would be how many ghost comics are on the census. This is where people resubmit the same books over and over to try to get higher grades creating multiple instances of the same book on the census.
Couldn’t agree more man, and I just randomly got into comics again! Of course has nothing to do with the dumpster fire the sportscard space has been 😝👏I agree the FOMO is annoying. People die, people get divorced, moms have garage sales…there’s tons of this stuff out there hahaha
It would be fun to do some data research if the information is accessible. For instance, year over year, how many new books are graded and what percentage of each grade they fall into out of the keys. I'd like to also take some known print runs, figure which are graded, out of the print runs and try to do an estimate of destruction of issues over time. For instance after 40 years, how many issues survive as an estimate, and then begin to apply this data to comics to see what we come up with. Maybe even create a popularity index based on prices, amount of activity etc. There has to be a gold mine of statistical data out there for comics to take advantage of.
You make very good points. I have been thinking about this for years. I also have to say that I am a part time and fairly consistent hunter. I have bought numerous collections in the past 10 years, but it isn’t easy for one, and I only found Hulk 181 once, in ten years! There’s a TON of post 1980-1990 comics out there, but from my experience it is much harder to find pre 1980 stuff, especially in high grade. Comic stores are the worst, they have people with no clue walk in all the time to sell collections and they make tons of profits. Plus many owners travel to buy huge collections for Pennie’s on the dollar and then store them in a warehouse. Just thought I would give my perspective. Keep up the good work!
Thanks!
I'm with you, but the FOMO is real with the perpetual comics on these lists. Personally I'm loving digging through for more obscure and cool books to cover them instead.
Love it!
Like all sports cards, there are WAY more raw comics than there are graded comics. Patience…
Because they don't want prices to go down because they have a copy
There's a ton of undiscovered, ungraded collectibles out there.
100%
Ya'll nailed it. There is no urgency in buying. Nothing is really going up in value anymore. More people are selling than buying and sales are slowing down to a crawl. I believe 2025 is going to be the best buying period in the last decade. More and more of these off-grid warehouse finds are going to find their way to eBay and suck the last bit of capital out of the market.
Here's my example of the warehouse issue:I've been buying copies of X-Men #150 from a guy on ebay in bulk. 10 packs, 20 packs, 50 packs. All are pristine. They were clearly bagged and boarded over 20 years ago based on the rippling of the bag. This ain't a particularly valuable issue, it's just an issue I like a lot. But at the time this was pulled out of the comic book market/supply (1981) it was just a random book. If people are still sitting on pristine, warehouse finds for this random book in 1981...don't ya think someone did the same in 1984 with ASM #252?
The part of the supply that can be scraped and quantified objectively via GPA/eBay/GoCollect, must represent less than 5% of the total supply of books on the market. Some people refuse to acknowledge the warehousing problem because they're just predatory pumpers, but a lot of people just find it difficult to factor in unknown variables but ignoring it isn't the right answer. The RUclips scammers are calculating and promoting the parts that are easy to calculate and ignoring all the negative variables. That's weird.
It's clear folks have been taking good care of books going back to the 80's to present as you mentioned with bags and boards
I have an ungraded copy of Hulk 181. I don’t often watch the videos about too 5 sellers. I’m not interested. I subbed to you so I look forward to other content from you.
There guys who have long boxes of raw Hulk 181s they are not rare but the demand for it is still strong. Supply is a lot but the demand is still strong so dosnt matter how many keep popping up raw and graded. If the demand
Is strong there can be 50,000 copies on the census for all I care
If you want to get a good idea of how many copies of Hulk 181 was printed, go look at the letters page of that title during that year. You dee, once a year every comic book would let the world know what was the average number of copies printed for that title.
There were relatively huge print runs of all Marvel Bronze age books. A quick Google of Hulk #181 puts it in the 350,000-400,00 range. By comparison Savage Dragon apparently ships less than 5000 copies these days.
@@Whalewraith The figure on the declaration that counted was 10e
I don't disagree, but yer example of th value of Wolverine 1 is also based on movie spec that'll be irrelevant in five yrs. It's not my game, but th ppl who are playin it need that short term trend info.
Great points
Ok couple of things:
1. You see the books over and over again because that is indeed what is selling. Spawn 1, Venom 1, IH 181, NM98, sell the most in volume week in week out for the most part. Most RUclipsrs will just report what the data says from the top selling sites. I don’t see why there is an issue here.
2. Secondly, most people who collect books must do their research. CGC census IS NOT accurate census for all comics that are out there. It is how many have been SENT IN. So people using the census as a estimation of the true population are idiots.
3. There actually have been very close estimates of comic print runs that have been reported since the late 1990s from comicchron. All comic collectors know of this resource. Ofcourse it does not go back that far. However any modern comic we do have pretty accurate print runs.
Thank You!! This video talks about Wolverine #1 which has been hot for over a year. That book is rarely seen at shows or conventions. The book is hot and flys off any shelf and Ebay. I saw one at my local LCS Thursday and someone bought it while I was there. I was talking to the manager and saying I haven't seen a Wolverine #1 in a while and he agreed. Bingo sold right in front of me. Secondly he fails to mention a book like Ultimate Fallout which has skyrocketed over the last 5 years. That book isn't coming down. This is the first time I've watch this guys channel and the last. Glad to see you shed some actual light on the hobby.
You don't think Ultimate Fallout has the potential to fall? That is not at all a scarce book.
Good feedback, thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts. As I said in the vid, I think a lot of comic book youtubers do a good job. I don't have an issue with reporting on data, it's how the data is sold to me the viewer that I take issue with, when it happens. I wouldn't assume 'all comic collectors' know of comicchron. This is my first time hearing of it, will check it out!
@@collectiblesdad every book has a potential to fall. Even bluechip stocks like Tesla or Amazon fall. I don’t know what that actually means. If you don’t understand long term growth potential, then please do more research. Comics just like stocks have ebbs and flows (while unlike stocks comics have no intrinsic value, they have perceived values, ie. A comic is just paper, while a stock is a fractiontional portion of a company you actually buy). That said, you need to look long term growth for a comic (for UF 4) sure it will dip but over the next 10 years (not counting 2021 because it’s a true anomaly) has the comic seen measurable value rise? If so, then we can safely say the comic has increased in value. NOTE: seeing values rise drastically in a very short time (days to a month) is more or less over for even “blue chip” comics, the comic book boom of 2020-2021 is long gone and we may never see one in another 15-20 years. It’s definitely a cycle-I’ve been through it twice. Believe me UF4 is a great investment. It wasn’t that heavily printed (ie. relative to NM98, Hulk 181) and will be immensely popular book with a generation of collectors wanting that issue as soon as Miles Morales goes to live action, and sees much more media and merchandising over the next few decades. So investing in a book like that when it is in a nadir state is not a bad idea at all. Again do your research and check your finances before you pay for a $900-1000 book. Every investment is a risk, since the inception of investing.
@@collectiblesdad you must check out shows that only give you data then. If you the watch the immensely popular (and IMO best top 10 show in the business) watch Ben Stein top 10 show every Friday, he just reports what he sees. It’s been that way for almost a decade. He has no skin in the game (doesn’t have a store, isn’t selling exclusives) so he tells it like he sees it. Watch that one if you are disillusioned of “the others”.
I'm in the uk. Anything we buy has to be imported. I would expect at a minimum 50% of books are being bagged & boarded given you have to make somewhat of an effort to actually buy a comic. Thats a lot of unaccounted stock.
Great feedback, thanks!
About 15yrs ago I bought a PSA 1 Knut Rockney rookie. The census across the board was super low and the cheapest I could get it for was 600 today that same card is worth 300 because the census slowly climbed over the years. So it not only happens it happens quicker with non-mint grades.
Thank you for sharing this! What year and set is that card?
@@collectiblesdad 1935 National Chicle Its a really cool set the low numbers are easy to find and afordable, its the high numbers that break the bank.
So, what do you think of comic dealers hyping up the same ol graded books over and over?
Love it, so true!
This a pivot from sports card dad or ?
No, this second channel just covers all of the 'other' collectibles, outside of sports cards. Thought it made more sense to separate, different audiences
Agree 100%.
That documentary is going to increase the demand more than the supply it adds. The story is endearing and will spark interest. Also, enormous Gold Mines and Oil is discovered fron tome to time and the value continues to go up. Nice video and energy and I appreciate your insight.
Supply exceeds demand by several orders of magnitude. You're ignoring the reality of print runs and you're letting social media spam act as a stand in for "demand" and that's ridiculous. Demand is low. Supply is high. Prices are high. The market has shifted and you're describing how it used to be. Demand for comics will never, EVER, approach the level it was at during Marvel Phase 1.
👍🏾