Active LDS here. Love your video and your perspective. When I was a missionary, I hated missionaries that had that "Yeah I will listen to you, but then I will tell you whats up." Having an actual deep respectful conversation to actually understand each other is one of the coolest things ever in my opinion.
When I was a JW, I called at a house of an older Mormon gentleman. His next-door neighbor (not LDS) was visiting him and inviting me in. I could tell from the look on the neighbor's face he wanted a front row seat to a fight. I purposely did not give him the show he wanted. I listened to old man for a few minutes and the neighbor got up, told me not come next door, and left. The young lady I was paired with for that door, a friend of then wife, did sort of chide me for not really saying anything substantial, but the alternative of giving the neighbor's a firework spectacle to an old man set in religion and like not to change seemed like a no-win situation.
Dude, you really need to do a temple open house walk through. You get more of the symbols and architecture that advertises that you are in a sacred space.
Ex-mormon here. There are lots of great people in church. And there are less great people too. I'm glad you had a good time! Sounds like you met a good group. My ex status is because I don't believe it's true, not because I didn't have a good community in it. Thanks for your honesty!
@@ariannarighetti4737 the church has no official stance on evolution if that is what you're asking. But I personally belive that, yes, dinosaurs existed. My opinion has no reflection on the church.
Okay. This is my time to shine. I'm one of probably like 5 experts on Mormon Church architecture. Every meetinghouse (for the most part) built after ~1965 is one of many "standard plans". Typically there are around 5 standard plans in each decade, and every meetinghouse built in that era is one of those standard plans. The first chapel you went to, the one with no windows, is referred to as either the "Cody" or "Sage" plan (depending on size). They were built from ~1981-1990 and were built explicitly to be practical and cheap. They are now one of the more common designs and universally considered by Latter-day Saints to be the worst of the standard plans.
@therandomheretek5403 I'm Mormon and I always thought it was interesting how a lot of the buildings looked the same. I started looking into it, reading a bunch of sources, compiling them, and one thing led to another I ended up becoming a subject matter expert.
Yep, I meet in one of those chapels without windows--constructed in '96, actually, and I sure liked a lot of the older designs a lot better. Our building is a Stake Center (HQ for several wards and multiple buildings), and it is truly awful in several ways. 1-It houses four wards (congregations and offices for their leadership) and the stake leadership, it's too small, for all of that. 2-The "stand is at floor level, but the chapel floor slopes down so it seems like the stand is raised, but it's at the same level as the overflow area, which we use ever Sunday, so you can't really see the speakers from half of the seats. 3-We have to rent larger building to meet as a stake, because we can't all fit in the chapel, even with the overflow, cultural hall, and stage filled with folding chairs. There's no hallway that goes across the front, so if there's a meeting in the chapel, one must walk all the way to the back, across, and then all the way to the front, again. I could list several other disappointing things about the building, but in the end, the church isn't a building. It's the people--and the opportunity to worship God together and learn more about Him that is the point of being there. And there could be much worse environments for doing that than my unfortunately-poorly-designed church building.
@04:43 "American Gnosticism... the perfect sales pitch". That, right there, is the kind of thing that keeps me coming back to your channel. Another great video, well done.
Active Latter Day Saint here. I appreciate your honest review and your openness to listen and learn. It is very refreshing! Some people just come in with all their preconceived biases and teachings against the LDS church that they heard from their pastor at church and fail to see the beauty we have to add to their theology if they had come with an open mind. It is true we skirt around some of the deeper cosmological aspects of our theology but some of that is more for the fact that not that much has been revealed about those aspects of eternity and are even still mysterious and unknown to us. We do believe in continuing and ongoing revelation and look forward to more being revealed and eventually additional scripture being revealed and coming forward.
@@Jimmy2toes4u👈🏼this guy am I right.. twinkle toes, that literally sums up the doctrine of the trinity.. rewriting something that was problematic.. 3rd century priests stoning people for blasphemy , and throwing people in dungeons, in an effort to establish public peace, which is a euphemism for silencing the voice of the people, had to square the idea that Jesus was God's Son and equal with God.. and because what the Bible teaches about Jesus being God's Son was apparently not clear and simple enough and leading to much disputation between the people and their bishops so the state and the church came up with a doctrine of the trinity.. and signed it into law .. and anyone who held onto the belief that Jesus was literally the Son of God was guilty of blasphemy and therefore charged under the law.. 🍻 mate.. You're in favor of church and state and the persecution of its people.. that's your church history.. ✝️
As a non-Mormon, I always thought the cosmology stuff was one of the more interesting aspects of Mormonism. It's the 21st century, and religions should stop pretending that space and planets don't exist.
@@PaulMDavidson Yes because God and his Son Jesus don't even come from this planet. So that is why its possible for God the Father to be resurrected on another world in another universe while Christ was resurrected here in this universe on this planet. The Born Again Evangelist Christians don't see the bigger picture of God's dealings. Some of them only see just this one planet and Limited God's dealings to just this one earth. But God is not limited to just one planet with his children.
@marcihaibach5424 if you are a true believer of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and happy in the church I'd be careful about clicking on random videos on RUclips about the church. - After being active in the church for 40 years I didn't follow this advice and one day let my guard down and have since found there is quite a bit the church has been hiding relating to Joseph Smith/The coming forth of the Book of Mormon/Truth claims etc.
This was the first video I watched from this channel and it was so interesting! I've noticed that a lot of atheist channels ironically have a hard time just "shooting the breeze" with different ideas, and are a bit too focused on proving things right and wrong. Nothing wrong with that approach, but I find it dull to listen to people who are just criticizing religion to validate themselves. I feel like this video was refreshing to watch because your approach is driven by genuine curiosity. I like that you share your opinions and criticisms in a fair way that acknowledges nuance. I learned something new!
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints got me. I was an atheist in college attending the LDS church. Eventually I ended up in a baptismal font…then my wife…now my family…and I am loving it…we are loving it.
Really appreciate the respectful yet hilarious and informative style you presented here. I’m a full hearted believer in the LDS faith and felt like you gave a really good summary of what people can expect. Happy to go deep on the fun doctrine that you enjoy with you any time!
I was raised mormon and left the church in my 20's. This was really fascinating hearing your perspective on all the stuff that felt so normal to me growing up. I think the diversity you experienced is kind of unique to single's wards, because a 30's-something mormon adult that's single with no kids is already not matching the ideal expectation for mormons, so many people you'll encounter in a singles ward are still TRYING to make it work, but already feeling a bit disenfranchised. Great video!
(Been a member of the LDS church my whole life) Your video made my whole day. I definitely will be following your channel. I feel like you're doing exactly what God wants us to do to be curious and ask questions.
I used to be LDS, now I’m Catholic, yet I still slide into the pews of a Latter-day Saint chapel every Sunday, right alongside my wife. Conversley, she comes to Mass with me on Saturdays. You’d think I’d feel like a grizzly bear invited to a tea party, but honestly, it’s surprisingly comfortable. I’m a Catholic guy through and through. The incense, the quiet dignity, the sense of continuity stretching back through the centuries, that’s all home for me. But when I step into an LDS service, I can’t help but grin a bit. There’s something genuinely appealing about the way they do community, like everyone’s decided that being neighborly isn’t just a nice idea, it’s the main course. The handshakes, the head nods, the “how’s your family doing?” stuff might be simple, but it’s solid gold in a world that’s often too busy glaring down at smartphones to notice anyone else. I’ve told my wife that if she ever stopped going, I’d be kind of bummed out. Not because I’m looking to swap creeds again, but because their Sunday scene has a special little pocket in my heart. I’ve developed a taste for their brand of fellowship, and it’d feel like losing a well-stocked pantry of kindness and baked goods. Again, I’m Catholic to my core and won’t be switching jerseys again, but I’ve still got some lingering LDS in my bloodstream. I’m grateful for that. It’s made me better at being Christian, more aware of how faith can build bridges and not just erect barricades. It’s nice to see someone else out there nudging believers to up their game and be better at living the ideals they claim.
This is a terrible idea and your wife is associating with heretics. You need to be a man and correct this asap. I had the same issue, as my wife was a JW. Her choices were, come with me to church or prove my position incorrect and I'll be a JW . She could not prove me wrong no matter how hard she tried and because of that I told her there is absolutely no reason for me to allow her to continue as a JW as it only leads to damnation. So her choices were then to come to church or get out of my house, as I cannot allow heretics in my home. Things have been amazing ever since I put my foot down and she is now attending church with me regularly.
@@a.ihistory5879 Wow. That’s a wonderfully subtle approach to marital and spiritual harmony, kind of like using a wrecking ball to hang a picture frame. Let me get this straight: The best way to nurture a loving, spiritually vibrant marriage is by issuing an ultimatum more fitting for a Saturday morning cartoon supervillain than, say, an actual human being? Because nothing screams “Christ-like love” quite like “my way or get out.” It’s like the religious equivalent of holding a hostage negotiation with your spouse’s soul, and trust me, that’s not a selling point for your personal brand of faith. Honestly, if you’re going for high-quality, lasting spiritual unity, basing it on an intellectual victory lap and brute-force threats is about as stable as a Jenga tower in an earthquake. Sure, you can probably bully someone into a pew, but the second you turn your back, resentment will be growing like a bad mold stain behind the drywall. Faith isn’t a cage you lock someone in, it’s an invitation to a banquet, a common table. Your approach? More like chained rations in a basement. Fun times. Anyway, as for me, I’m in no rush to follow the advice of someone who treats the faith of their spouse like a puzzle to be “solved” and a home like a cheap motel you can just kick someone out of. I’m sure it “worked” for you (in the sense that authoritarian measures do tend to enforce compliance) but I’ll stick with something more closely resembling love, understanding, actual human decency, and allow God to draw her in His time, thanks. Have a nice day.
@@a.ihistory5879 Wow. That’s a wonderfully subtle approach to marital and spiritual harmony, kind of like using a wrecking ball to hang a picture frame. Let me get this straight: The best way to nurture a loving, spiritually vibrant marriage is by issuing an ultimatum more fitting for a Saturday morning cartoon supervillain than, say, an actual human being? Because nothing screams “Christ-like love” quite like “my way or get out.” It’s like the religious equivalent of holding a hostage negotiation with your spouse’s soul, and trust me, that’s not a selling point for your personal brand of faith.
@@a.ihistory5879 Honestly, if you’re going for high-quality, lasting spiritual unity, basing it on an intellectual victory lap and brute-force threats is about as stable as a Jenga tower in an earthquake. Sure, you can probably bully someone into a pew, but the second you turn your back, resentment will be growing like a bad mold stain behind the drywall. Faith isn’t a cage you lock someone in, it’s an invitation to a banquet, a common table. Your approach? More like chained rations in a basement. Fun times.
@@a.ihistory5879 Anyway, as for me, I’m in no rush to follow the advice of someone who treats the faith of their spouse like a puzzle to be “solved” and a home like a cheap motel you can just kick someone out of. I’m sure it “worked” for you (in the sense that authoritarian measures do tend to enforce compliance) but I’ll stick with something more closely resembling love, understanding, actual human decency, and allow God to work in His own time, thanks. Have a nice day.
Hey thank you so much for visiting and being honest. As a lifelong member preparing for a mission, we love and appreciate your kind words. You are always welcome.
Active LDS here... loved this video, sorry you had a bad experience the first go around in a ward, when I was a full time missionary fast and testimony meetings where always scary for us because we where always afraid of what people would say lol, and people say all sorts of things lol. Thank you for your honesty, this was well said all around watched the whole thing good job!
Glad this time was better brother! Every ward is different, and it sounds like the first ward had recently gone through something traumatic. Glad you’ve us a second look!
Thanks for giving us a second chance. I can relate with both your experiences. I generally have a great time at church, but there are also weeks that are not inspiring. I love what you said about temples. We need to lean into them. They are amazing.
WAIT!!!! You've been to La Sagrada Familia?!?!?!?!? I recognize that clip anywhere!!! Dude!!!! That's probably my favorite church building in the 21 countries I've visited. Maybe one day you'll blow up and can review the Vatican and other major churches across the globe. I am a pentecostal pastor originally from NC now in IL so I can relate to a lot you say. I LOVE your content. KEEP IT UP!!!!
A minor point: Missionaries aren't apologists. They're more like tour guides. They teach the gospel at a simple level. They don't engage in theological debates or arguments
@@_Squiggle_ oh, for sure... I was one. But the end goal is to push a product, not to actually inform. Most are fully believing the product will help the customer. But at the end of the day- most salesmen aren't actually experts at their product... Just like these kind, well meaning, self-sacrificing individuals.
Another banger of a video, my man. In your video about your experience with the bipolar gentleman, your phrase, "I guess I'm just mad at people who don't wrestle," really resonated with me, and I have incorporated the term wrestle into my own spiritual journey. And this is a prime example of the wrestling you do that inspires me-- go back to a place you originally had a negative experience and dig deeper to find a glimmer of good. There is a duality in most things I've found, especially to Agnostics like myself who continue to wrestle. I love your ACA videos, but for your next discussion video, I had a suggestion. If the subject intrigues you enough, I'd love to hear your opinion on your perspective on the difference between Agnostics and Athiests. To my ear, your openness and intrigue with religion strikes me as similar to my Agnostic worldview, but I'd love to hear more about your apparent confidence and firm foundation when declaring yourself an Athiest. Just a thought; take it or leave it. Keep up the great work, Jared. 🫡
Love this video. It captures much of my views of the church ngl. As a member of it I am always so frustrated by the efforts of other members to cover up some of the msot interesting aspects of our faith. Theologically it makes sense why one would want to focus on the main principles of the faith, but nothing has made me feel more connected to those principles as getting into the nitty gritty of church history and beliefs. The building designs could also definitely use a huge renovation lol.
Active member of the church with wife and 2 kids here! It's true.....A lot of times, (unfortunately more often than not), our fast and testimony meetings are extremely dry, sad, and everyone is often too exhausted to go up and share their beliefs with vigor. It's definitely something that needs to be improved as far as church and community culture. I appreciate your fair and honest take on my church and my people. I definitely have felt very blessed having faith in God in my life and it's helped me structure my life in many ways which has helped serve me well as a husband of 8 years and a father of two. Edit: And oh yes. yes it does work. Singles Ward is definitely a master strategy for membership and it definitely promotes family lifestyle early on and played a huge part of my decision to propose to and marry my wife at a very young age (22). YSA (young single adult) wards are absolutely brilliant from a logistics angle and has definitely helped keep the church alive and well.
As a “Mormon” I prefer listening to atheists over dogmatic “Christians”. I think your take on Fast Sunday is kind of spot on. And I am in the bishopric of my ward 😂.
It gets quite obnoxious when the typical response is "You're in a cult, save yourself!" or, "You're not a Trinitarian, therefore not Christian!" (especially when most don't even understand the Trinity themselves anyway and end up falling into heresy by expalaining it). Terrible way to evangelize...I feel you.
@ Well yeah, some are. We’re human right? I would throw in dogmatic Mormon Christians into the mix too. I prefer more objectivity and freedom to think and reason without being limited by dogma, no matter where it comes from. I choose what to believe and I continually seek truth and reality. Listening to objective and rational thought benefits me tremendously. Sorry I hurt your sensitivities there Jumpman James.
Well the reason fast and testimony meetings are ever not good is because people don't testify. They give anecdotes and share stories and mini talks. That's not how the meeting is supposed to be. People should stand for 30 seconds, testify of Christ and the restored gospel, and then sit down. Every week you would get 30-40 members coming up. And the spirit is able to pour out. Unfortunately, our LDS culture gets in the way.
Wow. I came across your video in my feed and I saw the title and thought, "welp, I wonder what this bloke is going to say" hahaha! I am a convert to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints and I 100% understand what you have said. Previously being agnostic and having seen some depressed feeling days, but also days of joy and light. Many of your viewpoints I hold myself. My father is wildly against the church because of the Temple and more. But like you said, you enjoy discourse without the dogma of a church behind it and that I love as well. Can't have it with my parents or many people too often! I know I would certainly eat up a conversation with you! Cheers!
@@TheNinjapancake14 no, I'm looking for a reason to 'hang out' at these places. I remain open to a good reason, it's just that nobody has supplied any. (Lots of fallacies though).
@@clearstonewindows but there is no evidence or reason of supernatural anything! Maybe it exists? Maybe it's TRUE? Wow that would be good. But atheists WITHHOLD belief, not guess! Atheists say: we don't believe your claim, nor Islam's claim, nor anyone's supernatural claim. Mind you I hope it's true. Oh my I'd love that. But we withold belief as it's an unsubstantiated claim, just like Zues!
I enjoyed listening to your discussion. You have a great personality and are a deep thinker. I’m a woman in my 50s and a Mormon. In the early 90s I was an LDS missionary for 18 months. As you may know, these young missionaries are sometimes just graduating high school and then go do their mission. Many of them are still figuring things out as far as who they are and what they believe (probably why you saw that one sister missionary cry). It can be one of the most profound, intense, exciting and difficult times in their lives. There are so many wild experiences that you get to look back on that tends to shape your life. Anyway, thanks again for sharing your experience.
A lot of Gnostic ancient writing support the Book of Mormon. You would love Jonah Barnes book “The Keystone to the Keystone”. You can see some reviews of the book on Ward Radio. It uses apocryphal writings to support the Book of Mormon. Those ancient writings can be mind blowing fun!😊
As an LDS person, at least one possible read on the not leading with the stuff that is 'interesting' is that there often isn't much to say about it. So, for a Latter-day Saint audience, really delving into the meaning just won't go anywhere. Like, in your example with the Latter-day Saint belief in a Heavenly Mother, the speaker you listened to probably said nearly all there is to say about Heavenly Mother. Latter-day Saints believe in Her, but know very little about exactly what Her role is or how she functions in a grand design. The official doctrine on the subject is that She exists, and basically no more than that. So, to lead with that is kind of missing the point of it all. While it is boring, the main 'thing' that the missionaries want people to experience is the Come-to-Jesus moments. When the periphery is important, I think most missionaries will go all in on it (I was that way serving a mission), but there's just no reason to go crazy on it when that person doesn't care and hasn't understood the core, important message first. And, the core, important message is the one most likely to actually help the most people. If someone needs a healing experience with a church community, what is going to help is them learning the basics and going to church, not learning about the intricacies of Celestial Marriage and its consequences. Certainly not always the case, but a possibility.
Clearly that person wasn't a true Christian. It's OK though, as their church says that about you guys. Actually they ALL do that! I'm more interested in what's true. I realize no churchy person cares for that.
@@dinkledork4421milk before meat. The reason why heavenly mother isn’t emphasized is because she’s busy procreating spiritual babies for her spouse. Patriarchy rules LDS doctrine
Another part taught is that He, like most husbands would not like Her to be treated like some of Their children(us) treat Him. But, no facts on that, just people thinking for themselves or inspired.
I agree with your decision to listen to all of the perspectives, it's one of the most important ways to develop realistic understandings of why people believe what they believe and also just important for unbiased learning.
Loved hearing you share your thoughts; thanks, man! "I love conversations about interesting beliefs as long as dogma doesn't suddenly raise its head and come in cock-blocking everything..." probably my favourite thing I've ever heard you say, ha.
I would encourage you to look for a temple open house...during those free events, you can go inside to do tours. They have a much different feel than the typical meetinghouses. They happen usually only before the temple opens for use, but sometimes after renovations they have a new open house.
Please do more on JW. I am one, and I love your videos. It's so refreshing to see an outsider's perspective. I was raised in the organisation and I thought it was the truth when I got baptised. If i knew what I know now, I would never get baptised because now I can't leave with my relationships intact. It feels like being in a gang or mafia What really woke me up mentally was comparing the JW org to LDS org and SDA and realised that it's just American men claiming divine appointment and authority. It's such a scam! I can't speak for other denominations but being a JW is not worth it. The loss of autonomy and mental freedom far outweigh any benefits of being in the group. Please keep doing what you do. I am not an atheist but I have a new found appreciation for people on different paths. Your videos make me fall in love with humanity.
I mean. Every Christian sect believes in “divine authority” but only Catholics and Orthodox have actual proof of divine authority due to apostolic succession.
Glad you had a good experience at a Ward that had “the stuff” so to speak. Not every Ward is the same, different people going through different things in life create different atmospheres. In terms of the building sending us “back” or “forward” to the past or future, I’d say it’s really about being *present* with each other, focusing on people rather than objects or art.
Going from "I do not know why the Lord has let me live this long" to "Nemo, if you're watching this, you're my hero please be my friend" so fast it made my head roll haha
I truly appreciate your videos you have no idea, you deserve more views and more followers! even as a Christian, like you, I am very curious about other people's beliefs and how they practice them. As someone who doesn't live in the US, it is super interesting to see this large range of Christianity there and I like how you explore them and talk about them! Thanks again for your amazing content
Im an atheist who grew up Mormon. Went on a mission, got married in the temple. My wife is still active. And I have always found the theology as the most fascinating part of the church. I find theology interesting in general. But I’ve recently been looking into paganism and I agree with you that the church has an image problem. There is SO MUCH intricacy within the theology of the lds church that it does not lean into. I assume that since the church comes from a base Methodist/Protestant background there’s a lot of reserving expression. But I can definitely see a world where the church leans into it’s rich and colorful beliefs to create a culture that’s just as diverse, rich and colorful. If you deep dive into doctrine and covenants and pearl of great price. You’ll find some pretty crazy lore. For example, the earth is going to resurrect and become a perfected form. Kinda a Platonic idea. There’s scriptures about how there’s a universal hierarchy. Like the sun is “above” or “in charge of” it’s planets and how there’s are bodies above the sun, eventually leading to Kolob, which is like a second in command type body in the universe. Really interesting ideas
Dude, your wife prays for you every day that you'll get off you a** and do the will of the Father so you'll know the will of the Father. Do her a favor so she can stop resetting you.
As a lifelong member of the church, I really enjoyed this video. I love when people approach my faith with genuine curiosity. What you said about “American Gnosticism” rings true with me as well. I believe the same guy also once referred to us as a “science fiction fertility cult” and I was like bro… stop, I’m already a member, you don’t have to sell me any further 😂
I’m glad you found yourself at a Young Adult ward. I’m in one now, and it’s so much more lively and exciting than any of the other wards I have been a part of. Also, I appreciate your honest insights.
As a member of the Church, my experience has also been that not all wards are created equal. When I'm in a ward that isn't great, I can at least go to try to improve it, since I think I know better. lol Also, you sound like a cool dude. It's obvious they enjoyed having you there and for good reason! Glad you gave us another chance.
Been a member my whole life. My wife was a Baptist but later converted. Her family are all faithful evangelicals, wonderful folks. I love the flare my wife’s evangelical background has brought into my life. I’ve gained a great deal of respect and love for our evangelical cousins.
I just became aware of your channel. Having been born and raised LDS before leaving the faith and going on my own journey beginning about a year and a half ago, I found this really enjoyable. It's always fun to see someone experience something that was so normal and formative for me experiencing it for the first time and give an honest reaction. I'm glad you got to have a more positive experience than your initial fast and testimony meetings that you alluded to before. Those meetings, while they can be useful for some members, honestly don't represent the best of LDS worship meetings, in my opinion. I'll be looking forward to more content from your channel going forward. Best wishes on your journey.
It's not bad here! Downtown is pretty nice during Christmas. Only thing to watch out for is the inversion that tends to sit until we get a front to sweep it away.
As a member of the church the funniest thing I’ve heard is someone calling fast and testimony meeting open mic Sunday. Because honestly it’s so true! 😂 and yeah fast and testimony meeting can be WILD!
The fact that you know what doctrine and covenants are in the pearl of great price means that you know more about Mormons Than most people who are not Mormons. I am in the same boat. I have never been Mormon and have acquired a stupid amount of Mormon knowledge.
As a believer, I'm genuinely curious what is interesting to you? I find it fascinating, but it's interesting to me when people who don't believe the claims study it.
Fun videos Jared! It’s cool to hear about your exploration and thoughts! If you want to see an even uglier building😂, you’re welcome at 5060 Six Forks Rd anytime. 10:30 family ward and I think there’s a young adult ward later in the day
As a member of the church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints I agree that some fast and testimony meetings are worse than funerals, there are also some that are uplifting and some that are spiritually powerful. Joseph Smith was fond of the Methodists and considered joining them before he had his vision so it's not surprising that we are similar. Speaking about going back, In the temple we go back to Adam and Eve and the beginning of creation. Is that far enough back for you? If you want to get into some deep stuff ask about "organized intelligences." Don't be surprised if they have to get someone else to explain it to you.
As a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, I really appreciated how you went to talk to people instead of arguing with people. That's refreshing. If you want to deep dive, read the Book of Mormon. There are lots of things to learn about it, how it came to be, what witnesses said about it, the record of the people it contains. It's one of those things that on the surface level might seem simplistic, but it's actually quite a complex book. I can see you being interested in it. Thanks for visiting a ward and being curious. I appreciate your level of honesty.
I spent about 2 1/2 years questioning and considering leaving the church. I eventually decided to stay because I found nothing better. I choose to believe even if I don't know for sure like some people say.
@kimsland999 If you say so. Bad form to tell me what I meant though. The other option is I studied, considered, and made a choice... It's possible for someone to disagree with you and still have good rationale.
@@IJN-33 on your 2nd irrelevant point, ofcourse people of good (or bad) standing can agree/disagree with any personal view. Back to topic. If belief was a choice you could believe in a totally different contradictory religion for a day, just to see how they feel. Good test to do. What's that? You won't? Oh that's because belief is not a choice. Beliefs form from good or bad reasoning. To remove any (clearly false) belief, you merely need to question why it's true? So far no theist has come up with an answer to that. Try is there even a tiny bit of truth in it? Still so far no one has ever provided that. Mind you, a lot of personal feelings come out!
@@IJN-33 well thanks for the emotional fun part, however you probably should consider reason on any theistic belief. Hint: there isn't any reason to believe (except poor emotions and instruction of course). I do debate theists and am aware of all their fallacies. Ad-Hominen generally being their ridiculous judgement at the end. But I know you won't do that right? Dust balls from the theist.
❤ I love that you got a taste of the "we believe all things." It's hard to have dogma I a place where we believe in literal physical beings of enlightenment. I have dermal piercings, covered in tattoos, work in the Cannabis Industry, I attend Burning Man and am active in the Festival Culture. I am also a Latter Day Saint. 3rd generation, Baptised at 8 and come and go from meetings. I came here to say, that is beautiful that you observed the diversity of personalities. Our individualism is celebrated and everyone has their personal relationship with our heavenly beings... I love that you observed us...
This is not what Mormons who have stopped at my door profess about your faith; "we believe all things" is just another way of saying you don't believe in anything with conviction. Having beliefs means also having firm oppositions to the things that conflict with those beliefs. We who are Christian celebrate Christ more than our own individualism. This is one of the many reasons that Mormonism is separate from Christianity.
Agreed, the cosmology is the most interesting part, my favorite part at least. If you ever want to go more in depth into Mormon cosmology, I've spent a good deal of my life thinking it through, and would be happy to discuss it with you
There was a phrase passed around a lot when I was Mormon: “the church is true even if the people aren’t”. As an ex-Mormon, I see it as nearly the opposite. The Mormon church is full of amazing people who are trying to be the best people they can. I was super active growing up. I was a missionary. I went to the temple a hundred times. I was married in the temple. But once you do all of those steps, what’s left is “endure to the end”. Basically, if you’re doing everything “right”, you’ve completed all the major steps and you get to spend the next 50+ years trying not to screw up your salvation or that of your family. Your experience in this YSA ward and in the other ward are both equally useful looks into Mormonism. Eventually these young adults will be married, have kids of their own, and be struggling to hold on through financial and spiritual difficulties and pure exhaustion. All of this with the added pressure of “knowing” that if they don’t keep up with their religious duties then they run the risk of losing their families in eternity.
You're right about the more 'secret' or I guess the 'deep doctrine' points of the doctrine found in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints being some of the best parts of the Church. It would probably be best if members did not shy away from sharing it more. Honestly the understanding that God is a Heavenly Father, we are his literal spirit children, and that He wants us to become like him is one of the main points that keeps me believing in the doctrine found in this church. It makes sense.
Agree, the more "unconventional" (meant to be a compliment, not disrespectful) aspects of Mormon/LDS theology are what makes the religion so interesting imo
Glad you are having a good time. I recommend you talk to Jacob Hansen over at thoughtful faith. Might actually be a really interesting video. And I bet he would be willing to talk about anything with you. Especially theology, in a nonjudgmental way.
Also, in my area, we don't call investigators as investigators, we call them friends. So... hey there, friend. Part of the reason for YSA is to meet Mr/Mrs Right, but it's also gives attendees opportunities to have responsibilities running a congregation (with the exception of bishop). Churches are built with more function over form in mind, and purposefully doesn't have symbolism (with exception of the sacrament) to help attendees focus on the moment. Temples, on the other hand, are brimming with symbolism, because that's how we learn and study the mysteries. Not all missionaries aren't theology experts, unless they're extremely nerdy. They're yoooung young adults, and their job isn't to teach everything, but give a general idea of the dogma. Think of them as encyclopedia salesmen. They're not going to know everything in the books, but they know enough to entice you to buy and read them yourself. Also, missionaries are generally discouraged by mission leaders to Bible bash. So being verbally aggressive or assertive will shut them down (and even cry). My experience with the Church of Jesus Christ is overall positive. We have the largest heaven, and the smallest hell. Individuals who never had the chance or willingness to learn will in the after life, and can progress forward. Heaven isn't a big cloud where we play lyres forever, but learn the laws of nature and become creators ourselves. There were definitely people in the church (even in authoritative callings) who rub me the wrong way, but that's on them and my relationship to them, and not on the church's doctrine.
Ah yes… early 20s, when we know everything and need to prove it. I had a similar experience… except I was the one on the losing end of the argument. I left religion shortly after. Back to the topic at hand, the LDS Church down the road from me, have the nicest people I’ve ever interacted with. The missionaries were very kind and even gave me tickets to take my kid out to the carnival after my wife left. Ironically, the carnival was in the parking lot of a Catholic Church.
25:00 It kind of has actually. Like you have 2 forms of Arabic in every Arabic speaking country. You have fusha, which is tied to the language of the Qur'an, and then you have the local forms of Arabic which have undergone their own evolutionary process.
Awesome video. Love your humor and no holds barred opinions. I loved my time in YSA ward. Not having the responsibility that I have now as mom, wife, business owner, and just being able to geek out about spirituality is awesome. It's funny though cause with all the responsibility and work of life, its not the super fun random deep dive stuff that's getting me through (but don't get me wrong it is soooooo much fun). It is the super simple stuff that's giving me strength. The practical benefits for proper prayer, scripture study, and serving your neighbor are more important so they deserve more time. 100% would talk for hours about Heavenly Mother and temples and linguistic symbolism in the Book of Mormon though. That is totally my idea a good time.
In one ward i served in on my mission ... the members warned me not to bring investigators on Fast Sunday... I thought what a silly thing to say... I will bring people to everything i can.... oh... my... it was a train wreck... I was freaking out trying to look at the man to my right to see how he was taking it, without making it to obvious... the members that warned me were sitting behind and started to crack up seeing me trying to be low key... I have never ever been to a meeting like that in over 35 yrs... for the most part, testimony meetings are awesome sharing valid personal experiences that i find uplifting.
Growing up as an eccentric nerdy Mormon, I also liked the variety of personalities in LDS wards. Genuinely nice people (especially the younger ones!) and the young single adult wards are definitely made to be social, draw people in, get them married, and keep them in! It's a brilliant plan.
I'm an atheist ex-mormon (left in adulthood, did a mission and all the temple stuff), and you've very nicely captured the diverse experiences you can have in the Mormon church. LDS members don't have a choice in which congregation they attend, it's geographically assigned, so it can create a lot of diversity in certain congregations. And that geographical region, along with ward leadership, largely dictates the tone of a ward. And since young single adult wards pull from a larger region than a typical ward, it's normal to see more diversity there. There were many things I loved about the LDS church, and the one I miss now is my built-in community. But ultimately I couldn't stay in an organization that claims things about its foundation that I came to believe are not true. Anyway, love your content. It's helped me process my thoughts and feelings during my experience leaving the faith.
I’m also an atheist but never went to the trouble of having my name removed. My wife is still a true believer and so I still attend occasionally for the sense of community. I go hiking with my bishop sometimes. He says I’m the most active atheist in the ward. I know there is plenty of batshit crazy stuff in LDS theology and history but that’s true of any religion from the outside looking in. It’s nice to hear from someone occasionally that also appreciates some of the positives despite the quirky parts of the origin story.
"But ultimately I couldn't stay in an organization that claims things about its foundation that I came to believe are not true." Don Bradley, a church historian, was like that and left the church. But when he did more historical research he found out his assumptions about what was "true" turned out to be wrong and there was more to it, which eventually led to his re-baptism.
It was interesting for you to go to a different Ward and learn about new types of Mormon members, but it was interesting for me to hear your story as a missionary, knowing that you're now atheist. Have you watched Alyssa Grenfell's videos?! You should, and then you two should interview each other! I would love to watch that.
Last Mother’s Day a man gave a talk on Heavenly Mother in my former Ward(I moved to a different state), I love talks that go into deep subjects sometimes. The reason why we may shy away from the interesting stuff is because in the New Testament, Paul advises “Milk before Meat”, and we’ve interpreted that as to mean we must primarily focus on the simple stuff first, especially for new people, and often times that gets to the more interesting things being forgotten. I’m kind of a nerd in Church theology and history so I like talking about that stuff.
I’ve been a part of many many different wards all over the world. Yes, sadly the church buildings are super boring but the people are all pretty genuine. I definitely don’t go to church for the entertainment. Glad you got to see a different side of the Mormon church. Also, there aren’t any unsavory things in the temples lol.
There are things about LDS theology that I love: 1) God did not prepare a hell (eternal punishment) for His children or what Catholics call “purgatory.” 2) Latter-day Saints do not believe in a closed canon. It makes sense that God is not limited to only the Bible; His knowledge and wisdom are greater than that. That's why Latter-day Saints are open to receiving more scripture and revelation. 3) LDS theology emphasizes not only salvation but also progression. This means God put us on earth not only to be saved but also to progress. I think this reflects a more merciful plan from God for His children.
1) Well... not for roughly two-thirds of his children. The remaining third (however many billions those are) do receive eternal torment. Perhaps not a "prepared hell", but certainly suffering. 2) True. 3) True... according to what I learned and according to what is currently taught in the temple, but it feels like the potential to achieve godhood has been downplayed a lot recently.
@@Morstorpod 1- that isn't God doing that to them, it's the consequence of their decision. That's an important distinction. 3- It's still doctrine, we just don't know a whole lot so people tread lightly around the topic. It also invites a lot of mocking when approached flippantly.
@@markstenquist2315 1) Your statements are correct. Just reaffirming that the plan as taught within the the LDS doctrine does include immense suffering (whether caused by god or not, it is present), so it is not a religion without a "hell". 3) Correct. It is still doctrine, but things which have been taught as "doctrine" previously (e.g. priesthood/temple ban for black people) have been changed, so the potential that current doctrine may change in the future does exist. And this teaching has been downplayed in many places. For example, the church newsroom website has a FAQ section with two questions regarding godhood. The first question asks if we can become gods, and the answer is not a simple "Yes". The second question asks if we get our own planet, and it responds "No" but does not clarify that exalted members will become gods of many planets (not just "one"). Another example, Hinckley's Time magazine interview. Where he said "I don't know that we teach it... I don't know a lot about it..." in reference to god was being a man. That is (or was) an explicit LDS teaching used as additional proof that we may one day be like him. He did it after all! I hope this doctrine does not disappear since it is one of the cooler ones, but it wouldn't be the first time the church has substantially changed.
@@Morstorpod The temple/priesthood ban was never canonized. The idea that we can become Gods is canonized. Acting like everything is free game to change in the future simply because of the priesthood/temple ban is silly.
This guy reminds me of my first love. So wonderfully intelligent, honest, and open to all knowledge without disgust trying to control others' thinking. Not afraid to go and be ones self. Love it! I am also a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, loved this!
Man I hope you get to talk at some point with Alex O'Connor, your approach to atheism is quite interesting, I'm almost tempted to get back to church! 😂
Active LDS here. Love your video and your perspective. When I was a missionary, I hated missionaries that had that "Yeah I will listen to you, but then I will tell you whats up." Having an actual deep respectful conversation to actually understand each other is one of the coolest things ever in my opinion.
When I was a JW, I called at a house of an older Mormon gentleman. His next-door neighbor (not LDS) was visiting him and inviting me in. I could tell from the look on the neighbor's face he wanted a front row seat to a fight. I purposely did not give him the show he wanted. I listened to old man for a few minutes and the neighbor got up, told me not come next door, and left.
The young lady I was paired with for that door, a friend of then wife, did sort of chide me for not really saying anything substantial, but the alternative of giving the neighbor's a firework spectacle to an old man set in religion and like not to change seemed like a no-win situation.
Dude, you really need to do a temple open house walk through. You get more of the symbols and architecture that advertises that you are in a sacred space.
THIS!
And then pay 10% of your gross income to keep going to the temple… super neat prosperity gospel
Just a bunch of symbols stolen from masonry. Nothing special about Mormon temples. Just big buildings from a fraudulent organization.
@@blactuallyable They are going somewhere but it isn't a temple unless by temple you mean furnace.
@@blactuallyablecope harder, bud, Christ is King
Ex-mormon here. There are lots of great people in church. And there are less great people too. I'm glad you had a good time! Sounds like you met a good group. My ex status is because I don't believe it's true, not because I didn't have a good community in it. Thanks for your honesty!
"Cats and dogs? I like dinosaurs"
Bro I can guarantee one of the missionaries wrote that down in their notes of quotes
As a returned missionary. Yes, they definitely wrote it down. I've got like at least 30 funny quotes from my mission.
That dinosaur conversation could have gone very deep after church.
It was probably the title of one of their weekly emails home ngl
@@smingjrgenuine question, do Mormons believe in dinosaurs? Cause I was shocked to hear him say that and they enjoyed that joke
@@ariannarighetti4737 the church has no official stance on evolution if that is what you're asking. But I personally belive that, yes, dinosaurs existed. My opinion has no reflection on the church.
Temple open-house. For sure is the way to go.
Glad you had a good time. Nothingspeed, my friend.
Okay. This is my time to shine. I'm one of probably like 5 experts on Mormon Church architecture. Every meetinghouse (for the most part) built after ~1965 is one of many "standard plans". Typically there are around 5 standard plans in each decade, and every meetinghouse built in that era is one of those standard plans. The first chapel you went to, the one with no windows, is referred to as either the "Cody" or "Sage" plan (depending on size). They were built from ~1981-1990 and were built explicitly to be practical and cheap. They are now one of the more common designs and universally considered by Latter-day Saints to be the worst of the standard plans.
How does one come across such niche knowledge?
@therandomheretek5403 I'm Mormon and I always thought it was interesting how a lot of the buildings looked the same. I started looking into it, reading a bunch of sources, compiling them, and one thing led to another I ended up becoming a subject matter expert.
Yep, I meet in one of those chapels without windows--constructed in '96, actually, and I sure liked a lot of the older designs a lot better. Our building is a Stake Center (HQ for several wards and multiple buildings), and it is truly awful in several ways. 1-It houses four wards (congregations and offices for their leadership) and the stake leadership, it's too small, for all of that. 2-The "stand is at floor level, but the chapel floor slopes down so it seems like the stand is raised, but it's at the same level as the overflow area, which we use ever Sunday, so you can't really see the speakers from half of the seats. 3-We have to rent larger building to meet as a stake, because we can't all fit in the chapel, even with the overflow, cultural hall, and stage filled with folding chairs. There's no hallway that goes across the front, so if there's a meeting in the chapel, one must walk all the way to the back, across, and then all the way to the front, again. I could list several other disappointing things about the building, but in the end, the church isn't a building. It's the people--and the opportunity to worship God together and learn more about Him that is the point of being there. And there could be much worse environments for doing that than my unfortunately-poorly-designed church building.
@@monkeytastix Thanks!
@@monkeytastix Older buildings have way more character.
Hey thanks for the kind words about the short!
@04:43 "American Gnosticism... the perfect sales pitch". That, right there, is the kind of thing that keeps me coming back to your channel. Another great video, well done.
Active Latter Day Saint here. I appreciate your honest review and your openness to listen and learn. It is very refreshing! Some people just come in with all their preconceived biases and teachings against the LDS church that they heard from their pastor at church and fail to see the beauty we have to add to their theology if they had come with an open mind. It is true we skirt around some of the deeper cosmological aspects of our theology but some of that is more for the fact that not that much has been revealed about those aspects of eternity and are even still mysterious and unknown to us. We do believe in continuing and ongoing revelation and look forward to more being revealed and eventually additional scripture being revealed and coming forward.
@@marcihaibach5424 he means they get to rewrite stuff that becomes problematic
@@Jimmy2toes4u👈🏼this guy am I right.. twinkle toes, that literally sums up the doctrine of the trinity.. rewriting something that was problematic..
3rd century priests stoning people for blasphemy , and throwing people in dungeons, in an effort to establish public peace, which is a euphemism for silencing the voice of the people, had to square the idea that Jesus was God's Son and equal with God.. and because what the Bible teaches about Jesus being God's Son was apparently not clear and simple enough and leading to much disputation between the people and their bishops so the state and the church came up with a doctrine of the trinity.. and signed it into law .. and anyone who held onto the belief that Jesus was literally the Son of God was guilty of blasphemy and therefore charged under the law..
🍻 mate.. You're in favor of church and state and the persecution of its people.. that's your church history.. ✝️
As a non-Mormon, I always thought the cosmology stuff was one of the more interesting aspects of Mormonism. It's the 21st century, and religions should stop pretending that space and planets don't exist.
@@PaulMDavidson Yes because God and his Son Jesus don't even come from this planet. So that is why its possible for God the Father to be resurrected on another world in another universe while Christ was resurrected here in this universe on this planet. The Born Again Evangelist Christians don't see the bigger picture of God's dealings. Some of them only see just this one planet and Limited God's dealings to just this one earth. But God is not limited to just one planet with his children.
@marcihaibach5424 if you are a true believer of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and happy in the church I'd be careful about clicking on random videos on RUclips about the church. - After being active in the church for 40 years I didn't follow this advice and one day let my guard down and have since found there is quite a bit the church has been hiding relating to Joseph Smith/The coming forth of the Book of Mormon/Truth claims etc.
This was the first video I watched from this channel and it was so interesting! I've noticed that a lot of atheist channels ironically have a hard time just "shooting the breeze" with different ideas, and are a bit too focused on proving things right and wrong. Nothing wrong with that approach, but I find it dull to listen to people who are just criticizing religion to validate themselves. I feel like this video was refreshing to watch because your approach is driven by genuine curiosity. I like that you share your opinions and criticisms in a fair way that acknowledges nuance. I learned something new!
Dude you Need to get on Ward Radio, they would love to have you on for a chat!!!
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints got me. I was an atheist in college attending the LDS church. Eventually I ended up in a baptismal font…then my wife…now my family…and I am loving it…we are loving it.
The book of Mormon changed my life!!!
So happy you are happy and that it’s a good experience for you!
I’m sorry
@ haha. The water is fine. You’re next.
@ I don’t do cults I’m sorry.
Really appreciate the respectful yet hilarious and informative style you presented here. I’m a full hearted believer in the LDS faith and felt like you gave a really good summary of what people can expect. Happy to go deep on the fun doctrine that you enjoy with you any time!
I was raised mormon and left the church in my 20's. This was really fascinating hearing your perspective on all the stuff that felt so normal to me growing up. I think the diversity you experienced is kind of unique to single's wards, because a 30's-something mormon adult that's single with no kids is already not matching the ideal expectation for mormons, so many people you'll encounter in a singles ward are still TRYING to make it work, but already feeling a bit disenfranchised. Great video!
(Been a member of the LDS church my whole life) Your video made my whole day. I definitely will be following your channel. I feel like you're doing exactly what God wants us to do to be curious and ask questions.
What an awesome video. Thanks man. Seeing someone approach our faith (or any faith) with intellectual honesty and simple curiosity is so refreshing.
I used to be LDS, now I’m Catholic, yet I still slide into the pews of a Latter-day Saint chapel every Sunday, right alongside my wife. Conversley, she comes to Mass with me on Saturdays. You’d think I’d feel like a grizzly bear invited to a tea party, but honestly, it’s surprisingly comfortable.
I’m a Catholic guy through and through. The incense, the quiet dignity, the sense of continuity stretching back through the centuries, that’s all home for me. But when I step into an LDS service, I can’t help but grin a bit. There’s something genuinely appealing about the way they do community, like everyone’s decided that being neighborly isn’t just a nice idea, it’s the main course. The handshakes, the head nods, the “how’s your family doing?” stuff might be simple, but it’s solid gold in a world that’s often too busy glaring down at smartphones to notice anyone else.
I’ve told my wife that if she ever stopped going, I’d be kind of bummed out. Not because I’m looking to swap creeds again, but because their Sunday scene has a special little pocket in my heart. I’ve developed a taste for their brand of fellowship, and it’d feel like losing a well-stocked pantry of kindness and baked goods. Again, I’m Catholic to my core and won’t be switching jerseys again, but I’ve still got some lingering LDS in my bloodstream. I’m grateful for that. It’s made me better at being Christian, more aware of how faith can build bridges and not just erect barricades. It’s nice to see someone else out there nudging believers to up their game and be better at living the ideals they claim.
This is a terrible idea and your wife is associating with heretics. You need to be a man and correct this asap. I had the same issue, as my wife was a JW. Her choices were, come with me to church or prove my position incorrect and I'll be a JW . She could not prove me wrong no matter how hard she tried and because of that I told her there is absolutely no reason for me to allow her to continue as a JW as it only leads to damnation. So her choices were then to come to church or get out of my house, as I cannot allow heretics in my home. Things have been amazing ever since I put my foot down and she is now attending church with me regularly.
@@a.ihistory5879 Wow. That’s a wonderfully subtle approach to marital and spiritual harmony, kind of like using a wrecking ball to hang a picture frame. Let me get this straight: The best way to nurture a loving, spiritually vibrant marriage is by issuing an ultimatum more fitting for a Saturday morning cartoon supervillain than, say, an actual human being? Because nothing screams “Christ-like love” quite like “my way or get out.” It’s like the religious equivalent of holding a hostage negotiation with your spouse’s soul, and trust me, that’s not a selling point for your personal brand of faith.
Honestly, if you’re going for high-quality, lasting spiritual unity, basing it on an intellectual victory lap and brute-force threats is about as stable as a Jenga tower in an earthquake. Sure, you can probably bully someone into a pew, but the second you turn your back, resentment will be growing like a bad mold stain behind the drywall. Faith isn’t a cage you lock someone in, it’s an invitation to a banquet, a common table. Your approach? More like chained rations in a basement. Fun times.
Anyway, as for me, I’m in no rush to follow the advice of someone who treats the faith of their spouse like a puzzle to be “solved” and a home like a cheap motel you can just kick someone out of. I’m sure it “worked” for you (in the sense that authoritarian measures do tend to enforce compliance) but I’ll stick with something more closely resembling love, understanding, actual human decency, and allow God to draw her in His time, thanks. Have a nice day.
@@a.ihistory5879 Wow. That’s a wonderfully subtle approach to marital and spiritual harmony, kind of like using a wrecking ball to hang a picture frame. Let me get this straight: The best way to nurture a loving, spiritually vibrant marriage is by issuing an ultimatum more fitting for a Saturday morning cartoon supervillain than, say, an actual human being? Because nothing screams “Christ-like love” quite like “my way or get out.” It’s like the religious equivalent of holding a hostage negotiation with your spouse’s soul, and trust me, that’s not a selling point for your personal brand of faith.
@@a.ihistory5879 Honestly, if you’re going for high-quality, lasting spiritual unity, basing it on an intellectual victory lap and brute-force threats is about as stable as a Jenga tower in an earthquake. Sure, you can probably bully someone into a pew, but the second you turn your back, resentment will be growing like a bad mold stain behind the drywall. Faith isn’t a cage you lock someone in, it’s an invitation to a banquet, a common table. Your approach? More like chained rations in a basement. Fun times.
@@a.ihistory5879 Anyway, as for me, I’m in no rush to follow the advice of someone who treats the faith of their spouse like a puzzle to be “solved” and a home like a cheap motel you can just kick someone out of. I’m sure it “worked” for you (in the sense that authoritarian measures do tend to enforce compliance) but I’ll stick with something more closely resembling love, understanding, actual human decency, and allow God to work in His own time, thanks. Have a nice day.
Hey thank you so much for visiting and being honest. As a lifelong member preparing for a mission, we love and appreciate your kind words. You are always welcome.
Active LDS here... loved this video, sorry you had a bad experience the first go around in a ward, when I was a full time missionary fast and testimony meetings where always scary for us because we where always afraid of what people would say lol, and people say all sorts of things lol. Thank you for your honesty, this was well said all around watched the whole thing good job!
That's the truth🙂! Good on him for giving it another chance
Glad this time was better brother! Every ward is different, and it sounds like the first ward had recently gone through something traumatic. Glad you’ve us a second look!
I’ve lived in tons of wards and some have a little more energy than others. It’s good to hear that you had a better experience this last time though!
When are you going to a Seventh-Day Adventist Church?
Not a modern/progressive SDA church, he needs to visit a traditional SDA church to get the real experience.
Thoroughly enjoyed hearing about your experience. All the best
Thanks for giving us a second chance. I can relate with both your experiences. I generally have a great time at church, but there are also weeks that are not inspiring.
I love what you said about temples. We need to lean into them. They are amazing.
WAIT!!!! You've been to La Sagrada Familia?!?!?!?!? I recognize that clip anywhere!!! Dude!!!! That's probably my favorite church building in the 21 countries I've visited. Maybe one day you'll blow up and can review the Vatican and other major churches across the globe. I am a pentecostal pastor originally from NC now in IL so I can relate to a lot you say. I LOVE your content. KEEP IT UP!!!!
Some fast Sundays are pretty bad, yeah. But sometimes they are the most powerful meetings. It's very hot or miss
Agreed. There is always the same people. But then something real happens and you're like... "oh yeah, God is Gathering Israel"
Hey! Glad you enjoyed it! Welcome back anytime!
A minor point: Missionaries aren't apologists. They're more like tour guides. They teach the gospel at a simple level. They don't engage in theological debates or arguments
More like salesmen- showing the bells and whistles while avoiding the rust and failing transmission.
Well-meaning salesmen, mind you.
@@Coastieblee Mmm. Kind of. They don't benefit like a salesperson does though
@@_Squiggle_ oh, for sure... I was one. But the end goal is to push a product, not to actually inform. Most are fully believing the product will help the customer. But at the end of the day- most salesmen aren't actually experts at their product... Just like these kind, well meaning, self-sacrificing individuals.
Ngl tho being a missionary and seriously studying theology and apologetics was probably the most fun part
This was a refreshing perspective! I appreciate the sincerity, and even the constructive feedback about our faith. We should be friends.
Another banger of a video, my man.
In your video about your experience with the bipolar gentleman, your phrase, "I guess I'm just mad at people who don't wrestle," really resonated with me, and I have incorporated the term wrestle into my own spiritual journey. And this is a prime example of the wrestling you do that inspires me-- go back to a place you originally had a negative experience and dig deeper to find a glimmer of good. There is a duality in most things I've found, especially to Agnostics like myself who continue to wrestle.
I love your ACA videos, but for your next discussion video, I had a suggestion. If the subject intrigues you enough, I'd love to hear your opinion on your perspective on the difference between Agnostics and Athiests. To my ear, your openness and intrigue with religion strikes me as similar to my Agnostic worldview, but I'd love to hear more about your apparent confidence and firm foundation when declaring yourself an Athiest.
Just a thought; take it or leave it. Keep up the great work, Jared. 🫡
Love this video. It captures much of my views of the church ngl. As a member of it I am always so frustrated by the efforts of other members to cover up some of the msot interesting aspects of our faith. Theologically it makes sense why one would want to focus on the main principles of the faith, but nothing has made me feel more connected to those principles as getting into the nitty gritty of church history and beliefs. The building designs could also definitely use a huge renovation lol.
As a die hard member of the church I love this video!
I know you!
Aaaaaye wussup brooo? 😂😂@@DannyAGray
Left the lds church for 8 years, started attending my ysa ward a few months ago. It’s pretty chill
I'm glad to hear you've been attending again 😊
Hope you do well
Active member of the church with wife and 2 kids here!
It's true.....A lot of times, (unfortunately more often than not), our fast and testimony meetings are extremely dry, sad, and everyone is often too exhausted to go up and share their beliefs with vigor. It's definitely something that needs to be improved as far as church and community culture. I appreciate your fair and honest take on my church and my people. I definitely have felt very blessed having faith in God in my life and it's helped me structure my life in many ways which has helped serve me well as a husband of 8 years and a father of two.
Edit: And oh yes. yes it does work. Singles Ward is definitely a master strategy for membership and it definitely promotes family lifestyle early on and played a huge part of my decision to propose to and marry my wife at a very young age (22). YSA (young single adult) wards are absolutely brilliant from a logistics angle and has definitely helped keep the church alive and well.
This is a Good video and I think more people should see this as they are interested. keep up the good work.
As a “Mormon” I prefer listening to atheists over dogmatic “Christians”. I think your take on Fast Sunday is kind of spot on. And I am in the bishopric of my ward 😂.
It gets quite obnoxious when the typical response is "You're in a cult, save yourself!" or, "You're not a Trinitarian, therefore not Christian!" (especially when most don't even understand the Trinity themselves anyway and end up falling into heresy by expalaining it). Terrible way to evangelize...I feel you.
Me too!!!
Right, because LDS folks certainly aren't dogmatic themselves... Pot calling the kettle black, much?
@ Well yeah, some are. We’re human right? I would throw in dogmatic Mormon Christians into the mix too. I prefer more objectivity and freedom to think and reason without being limited by dogma, no matter where it comes from. I choose what to believe and I continually seek truth and reality. Listening to objective and rational thought benefits me tremendously. Sorry I hurt your sensitivities there Jumpman James.
Well the reason fast and testimony meetings are ever not good is because people don't testify. They give anecdotes and share stories and mini talks. That's not how the meeting is supposed to be. People should stand for 30 seconds, testify of Christ and the restored gospel, and then sit down. Every week you would get 30-40 members coming up. And the spirit is able to pour out. Unfortunately, our LDS culture gets in the way.
Wow. I came across your video in my feed and I saw the title and thought, "welp, I wonder what this bloke is going to say" hahaha! I am a convert to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints and I 100% understand what you have said. Previously being agnostic and having seen some depressed feeling days, but also days of joy and light. Many of your viewpoints I hold myself. My father is wildly against the church because of the Temple and more. But like you said, you enjoy discourse without the dogma of a church behind it and that I love as well. Can't have it with my parents or many people too often! I know I would certainly eat up a conversation with you! Cheers!
I really like how you use the expression “woof” 😂 I love these church audits so much.
Thank you for the “Fishers of Men” shout out! Great video.
I'm so glad you got to visit a YSA! I'm not really relgious but I still go to my local young adult ward since it's so much fun to hang out.
I'm more interested if it's true.
The 'fun' would stop as soon as I heard them saying obvious nonsense.
Replying to Kim, it looks like you are looking for a reason to not have fun 😅
@@TheNinjapancake14 no, I'm looking for a reason to 'hang out' at these places.
I remain open to a good reason, it's just that nobody has supplied any. (Lots of fallacies though).
@@kimsland999 have you read the book? It changed my life!!!
@@clearstonewindows but there is no evidence or reason of supernatural anything!
Maybe it exists? Maybe it's TRUE? Wow that would be good.
But atheists WITHHOLD belief, not guess!
Atheists say: we don't believe your claim, nor Islam's claim, nor anyone's supernatural claim.
Mind you I hope it's true. Oh my I'd love that.
But we withold belief as it's an unsubstantiated claim, just like Zues!
I enjoyed listening to your discussion. You have a great personality and are a deep thinker.
I’m a woman in my 50s and a Mormon. In the early 90s I was an LDS missionary for 18 months. As you may know, these young missionaries are sometimes just graduating high school and then go do their mission. Many of them are still figuring things out as far as who they are and what they believe (probably why you saw that one sister missionary cry). It can be one of the most profound, intense, exciting and difficult times in their lives. There are so many wild experiences that you get to look back on that tends to shape your life.
Anyway, thanks again for sharing your experience.
A lot of Gnostic ancient writing support the Book of Mormon. You would love Jonah Barnes book “The Keystone to the Keystone”. You can see some reviews of the book on Ward Radio. It uses apocryphal writings to support the Book of Mormon. Those ancient writings can be mind blowing fun!😊
As an LDS person, at least one possible read on the not leading with the stuff that is 'interesting' is that there often isn't much to say about it. So, for a Latter-day Saint audience, really delving into the meaning just won't go anywhere.
Like, in your example with the Latter-day Saint belief in a Heavenly Mother, the speaker you listened to probably said nearly all there is to say about Heavenly Mother. Latter-day Saints believe in Her, but know very little about exactly what Her role is or how she functions in a grand design. The official doctrine on the subject is that She exists, and basically no more than that. So, to lead with that is kind of missing the point of it all. While it is boring, the main 'thing' that the missionaries want people to experience is the Come-to-Jesus moments. When the periphery is important, I think most missionaries will go all in on it (I was that way serving a mission), but there's just no reason to go crazy on it when that person doesn't care and hasn't understood the core, important message first.
And, the core, important message is the one most likely to actually help the most people. If someone needs a healing experience with a church community, what is going to help is them learning the basics and going to church, not learning about the intricacies of Celestial Marriage and its consequences. Certainly not always the case, but a possibility.
Indeed. Offer a soul the bread of understanding before serving a banquet of mysteries.
Clearly that person wasn't a true Christian.
It's OK though, as their church says that about you guys.
Actually they ALL do that!
I'm more interested in what's true.
I realize no churchy person cares for that.
@@dinkledork4421milk before meat. The reason why heavenly mother isn’t emphasized is because she’s busy procreating spiritual babies for her spouse. Patriarchy rules LDS doctrine
Another part taught is that He, like most husbands would not like Her to be treated like some of Their children(us) treat Him. But, no facts on that, just people thinking for themselves or inspired.
I agree with your decision to listen to all of the perspectives, it's one of the most important ways to develop realistic understandings of why people believe what they believe and also just important for unbiased learning.
Loved hearing you share your thoughts; thanks, man!
"I love conversations about interesting beliefs as long as dogma doesn't suddenly raise its head and come in cock-blocking everything..." probably my favourite thing I've ever heard you say, ha.
I would encourage you to look for a temple open house...during those free events, you can go inside to do tours. They have a much different feel than the typical meetinghouses. They happen usually only before the temple opens for use, but sometimes after renovations they have a new open house.
Please do more on JW. I am one, and I love your videos. It's so refreshing to see an outsider's perspective. I was raised in the organisation and I thought it was the truth when I got baptised.
If i knew what I know now, I would never get baptised because now I can't leave with my relationships intact.
It feels like being in a gang or mafia
What really woke me up mentally was comparing the JW org to LDS org and SDA and realised that it's just American men claiming divine appointment and authority.
It's such a scam!
I can't speak for other denominations but being a JW is not worth it. The loss of autonomy and mental freedom far outweigh any benefits of being in the group.
Please keep doing what you do. I am not an atheist but I have a new found appreciation for people on different paths. Your videos make me fall in love with humanity.
I mean. Every Christian sect believes in “divine authority” but only Catholics and Orthodox have actual proof of divine authority due to apostolic succession.
Glad you had a good experience at a Ward that had “the stuff” so to speak. Not every Ward is the same, different people going through different things in life create different atmospheres.
In terms of the building sending us “back” or “forward” to the past or future, I’d say it’s really about being *present* with each other, focusing on people rather than objects or art.
Going from "I do not know why the Lord has let me live this long" to "Nemo, if you're watching this, you're my hero please be my friend" so fast it made my head roll haha
I truly appreciate your videos you have no idea, you deserve more views and more followers! even as a Christian, like you, I am very curious about other people's beliefs and how they practice them. As someone who doesn't live in the US, it is super interesting to see this large range of Christianity there and I like how you explore them and talk about them! Thanks again for your amazing content
We were stoked to have you man, thanks for coming by. We hope to see you again 🤙
You’re in a cult, please try and free yourself from these chains put on your mind
@Ampasss she won't take this seriously. It has to come from within.
@@ginismoja2459 it breaks my heart, these people are wasting so much time and energy in their life for something completely fake 😢
@@Ampasss now, back to doom scrolling...
@@dirkjensen969 huh?
Im an atheist who grew up Mormon. Went on a mission, got married in the temple. My wife is still active. And I have always found the theology as the most fascinating part of the church. I find theology interesting in general. But I’ve recently been looking into paganism and I agree with you that the church has an image problem. There is SO MUCH intricacy within the theology of the lds church that it does not lean into. I assume that since the church comes from a base Methodist/Protestant background there’s a lot of reserving expression. But I can definitely see a world where the church leans into it’s rich and colorful beliefs to create a culture that’s just as diverse, rich and colorful. If you deep dive into doctrine and covenants and pearl of great price. You’ll find some pretty crazy lore. For example, the earth is going to resurrect and become a perfected form. Kinda a Platonic idea. There’s scriptures about how there’s a universal hierarchy. Like the sun is “above” or “in charge of” it’s planets and how there’s are bodies above the sun, eventually leading to Kolob, which is like a second in command type body in the universe. Really interesting ideas
Dude, your wife prays for you every day that you'll get off you a** and do the will of the Father so you'll know the will of the Father. Do her a favor so she can stop resetting you.
As a lifelong member of the church, I really enjoyed this video. I love when people approach my faith with genuine curiosity. What you said about “American Gnosticism” rings true with me as well. I believe the same guy also once referred to us as a “science fiction fertility cult” and I was like bro… stop, I’m already a member, you don’t have to sell me any further 😂
This was an interesting review. Thanks 🙂
I’m glad you found yourself at a Young Adult ward. I’m in one now, and it’s so much more lively and exciting than any of the other wards I have been a part of. Also, I appreciate your honest insights.
They're so much fun!
As a member of the Church, my experience has also been that not all wards are created equal. When I'm in a ward that isn't great, I can at least go to try to improve it, since I think I know better. lol
Also, you sound like a cool dude. It's obvious they enjoyed having you there and for good reason! Glad you gave us another chance.
Been a member my whole life. My wife was a Baptist but later converted. Her family are all faithful evangelicals, wonderful folks. I love the flare my wife’s evangelical background has brought into my life. I’ve gained a great deal of respect and love for our evangelical cousins.
I just became aware of your channel. Having been born and raised LDS before leaving the faith and going on my own journey beginning about a year and a half ago, I found this really enjoyable. It's always fun to see someone experience something that was so normal and formative for me experiencing it for the first time and give an honest reaction.
I'm glad you got to have a more positive experience than your initial fast and testimony meetings that you alluded to before. Those meetings, while they can be useful for some members, honestly don't represent the best of LDS worship meetings, in my opinion.
I'll be looking forward to more content from your channel going forward. Best wishes on your journey.
I’ve been to LDS meetings and always enjoyed them. I enjoy the LDS so much that I want to visit Utah sometime soon.
It's not bad here! Downtown is pretty nice during Christmas. Only thing to watch out for is the inversion that tends to sit until we get a front to sweep it away.
There are members when you live.
As a member of the church the funniest thing I’ve heard is someone calling fast and testimony meeting open mic Sunday. Because honestly it’s so true! 😂 and yeah fast and testimony meeting can be WILD!
The fact that you know what doctrine and covenants are in the pearl of great price means that you know more about Mormons Than most people who are not Mormons. I am in the same boat. I have never been Mormon and have acquired a stupid amount of Mormon knowledge.
Same here!
As a believer, I'm genuinely curious what is interesting to you? I find it fascinating, but it's interesting to me when people who don't believe the claims study it.
@IJN-33 the lore is good. Kind of like how some people get really into lord of the rings.
@@DenNinjaKlung I can see that. It's pretty fascinating as a story.
@@IJN-33 Call it a morbid curiosity from someone the church now only silently believed is from a cursed lineage.
Thank you for your videos. I really enjoy your approach to all religions.
Fun videos Jared! It’s cool to hear about your exploration and thoughts! If you want to see an even uglier building😂, you’re welcome at 5060 Six Forks Rd anytime. 10:30 family ward and I think there’s a young adult ward later in the day
As a member of the church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints I agree that some fast and testimony meetings are worse than funerals, there are also some that are uplifting and some that are spiritually powerful. Joseph Smith was fond of the Methodists and considered joining them before he had his vision so it's not surprising that we are similar. Speaking about going back, In the temple we go back to Adam and Eve and the beginning of creation. Is that far enough back for you? If you want to get into some deep stuff ask about "organized intelligences." Don't be surprised if they have to get someone else to explain it to you.
As a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, I really appreciated how you went to talk to people instead of arguing with people. That's refreshing. If you want to deep dive, read the Book of Mormon. There are lots of things to learn about it, how it came to be, what witnesses said about it, the record of the people it contains. It's one of those things that on the surface level might seem simplistic, but it's actually quite a complex book. I can see you being interested in it. Thanks for visiting a ward and being curious. I appreciate your level of honesty.
I spent about 2 1/2 years questioning and considering leaving the church. I eventually decided to stay because I found nothing better. I choose to believe even if I don't know for sure like some people say.
Except beliefs aren't choices of course. I think you mean you choose the personal feelings of extreme backward beliefs.
I prefer the truth.
@kimsland999 If you say so. Bad form to tell me what I meant though. The other option is I studied, considered, and made a choice... It's possible for someone to disagree with you and still have good rationale.
@@IJN-33 on your 2nd irrelevant point, ofcourse people of good (or bad) standing can agree/disagree with any personal view.
Back to topic.
If belief was a choice you could believe in a totally different contradictory religion for a day, just to see how they feel. Good test to do.
What's that? You won't?
Oh that's because belief is not a choice.
Beliefs form from good or bad reasoning.
To remove any (clearly false) belief, you merely need to question why it's true?
So far no theist has come up with an answer to that.
Try is there even a tiny bit of truth in it?
Still so far no one has ever provided that.
Mind you, a lot of personal feelings come out!
@kimsland999 Well this has been fun. As much as I enjoy ad hominem attacks my very relevant 2nd point is where I'll end. Good luck to you.
@@IJN-33 well thanks for the emotional fun part, however you probably should consider reason on any theistic belief.
Hint: there isn't any reason to believe (except poor emotions and instruction of course).
I do debate theists and am aware of all their fallacies. Ad-Hominen generally being their ridiculous judgement at the end. But I know you won't do that right?
Dust balls from the theist.
Your personality would fit in very well with most LDS wards. Most of them are weird.
Lahahahahaha!
Yes quirky is the best way to look at it.
thanks for the second chance
You seem like someone who has fun interesting conversations
❤ I love that you got a taste of the "we believe all things." It's hard to have dogma I a place where we believe in literal physical beings of enlightenment.
I have dermal piercings, covered in tattoos, work in the Cannabis Industry, I attend Burning Man and am active in the Festival Culture.
I am also a Latter Day Saint. 3rd generation, Baptised at 8 and come and go from meetings.
I came here to say, that is beautiful that you observed the diversity of personalities. Our individualism is celebrated and everyone has their personal relationship with our heavenly beings...
I love that you observed us...
This is not what Mormons who have stopped at my door profess about your faith; "we believe all things" is just another way of saying you don't believe in anything with conviction. Having beliefs means also having firm oppositions to the things that conflict with those beliefs. We who are Christian celebrate Christ more than our own individualism. This is one of the many reasons that Mormonism is separate from Christianity.
Agreed, the cosmology is the most interesting part, my favorite part at least. If you ever want to go more in depth into Mormon cosmology, I've spent a good deal of my life thinking it through, and would be happy to discuss it with you
There was a phrase passed around a lot when I was Mormon: “the church is true even if the people aren’t”. As an ex-Mormon, I see it as nearly the opposite. The Mormon church is full of amazing people who are trying to be the best people they can.
I was super active growing up. I was a missionary. I went to the temple a hundred times. I was married in the temple. But once you do all of those steps, what’s left is “endure to the end”. Basically, if you’re doing everything “right”, you’ve completed all the major steps and you get to spend the next 50+ years trying not to screw up your salvation or that of your family.
Your experience in this YSA ward and in the other ward are both equally useful looks into Mormonism. Eventually these young adults will be married, have kids of their own, and be struggling to hold on through financial and spiritual difficulties and pure exhaustion. All of this with the added pressure of “knowing” that if they don’t keep up with their religious duties then they run the risk of losing their families in eternity.
I love how respectable you are to all the churches you visit
Good stuff my guy!
Loved this video
I love these longer form videos!
You're right about the more 'secret' or I guess the 'deep doctrine' points of the doctrine found in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints being some of the best parts of the Church. It would probably be best if members did not shy away from sharing it more. Honestly the understanding that God is a Heavenly Father, we are his literal spirit children, and that He wants us to become like him is one of the main points that keeps me believing in the doctrine found in this church. It makes sense.
Agree, the more "unconventional" (meant to be a compliment, not disrespectful) aspects of Mormon/LDS theology are what makes the religion so interesting imo
Glad you are having a good time. I recommend you talk to Jacob Hansen over at thoughtful faith. Might actually be a really interesting video. And I bet he would be willing to talk about anything with you. Especially theology, in a nonjudgmental way.
I was with you until the nonjudgmental part...Jacob Hansen is anything but that
Jacob Hansen comes across and a real prick!!
Also, in my area, we don't call investigators as investigators, we call them friends. So... hey there, friend.
Part of the reason for YSA is to meet Mr/Mrs Right, but it's also gives attendees opportunities to have responsibilities running a congregation (with the exception of bishop).
Churches are built with more function over form in mind, and purposefully doesn't have symbolism (with exception of the sacrament) to help attendees focus on the moment. Temples, on the other hand, are brimming with symbolism, because that's how we learn and study the mysteries.
Not all missionaries aren't theology experts, unless they're extremely nerdy. They're yoooung young adults, and their job isn't to teach everything, but give a general idea of the dogma. Think of them as encyclopedia salesmen. They're not going to know everything in the books, but they know enough to entice you to buy and read them yourself. Also, missionaries are generally discouraged by mission leaders to Bible bash. So being verbally aggressive or assertive will shut them down (and even cry).
My experience with the Church of Jesus Christ is overall positive. We have the largest heaven, and the smallest hell. Individuals who never had the chance or willingness to learn will in the after life, and can progress forward. Heaven isn't a big cloud where we play lyres forever, but learn the laws of nature and become creators ourselves. There were definitely people in the church (even in authoritative callings) who rub me the wrong way, but that's on them and my relationship to them, and not on the church's doctrine.
Calling them "friends" is one of the creepier changes.
I don't know many, if any, Christians who believe in a heavenly cloud of lyre playing as their perpetual existence for all eternity.
@meganshay ergo my facetious sentence
@@meganshay 100% agree. It leans into the "cult" vibe that most members don't want to emphasize.
Ah yes… early 20s, when we know everything and need to prove it. I had a similar experience… except I was the one on the losing end of the argument. I left religion shortly after. Back to the topic at hand, the LDS Church down the road from me, have the nicest people I’ve ever interacted with. The missionaries were very kind and even gave me tickets to take my kid out to the carnival after my wife left. Ironically, the carnival was in the parking lot of a Catholic Church.
The Vatican created LDS
25:00 It kind of has actually. Like you have 2 forms of Arabic in every Arabic speaking country. You have fusha, which is tied to the language of the Qur'an, and then you have the local forms of Arabic which have undergone their own evolutionary process.
Awesome video. Love your humor and no holds barred opinions.
I loved my time in YSA ward. Not having the responsibility that I have now as mom, wife, business owner, and just being able to geek out about spirituality is awesome.
It's funny though cause with all the responsibility and work of life, its not the super fun random deep dive stuff that's getting me through (but don't get me wrong it is soooooo much fun). It is the super simple stuff that's giving me strength. The practical benefits for proper prayer, scripture study, and serving your neighbor are more important so they deserve more time.
100% would talk for hours about Heavenly Mother and temples and linguistic symbolism in the Book of Mormon though. That is totally my idea a good time.
I enjoyed this review as an active member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Thanks for your openness and thoughtfulness.
In one ward i served in on my mission ... the members warned me not to bring investigators on Fast Sunday... I thought what a silly thing to say... I will bring people to everything i can.... oh... my... it was a train wreck... I was freaking out trying to look at the man to my right to see how he was taking it, without making it to obvious... the members that warned me were sitting behind and started to crack up seeing me trying to be low key... I have never ever been to a meeting like that in over 35 yrs... for the most part, testimony meetings are awesome sharing valid personal experiences that i find uplifting.
Growing up as an eccentric nerdy Mormon, I also liked the variety of personalities in LDS wards. Genuinely nice people (especially the younger ones!) and the young single adult wards are definitely made to be social, draw people in, get them married, and keep them in! It's a brilliant plan.
I'm an atheist ex-mormon (left in adulthood, did a mission and all the temple stuff), and you've very nicely captured the diverse experiences you can have in the Mormon church.
LDS members don't have a choice in which congregation they attend, it's geographically assigned, so it can create a lot of diversity in certain congregations. And that geographical region, along with ward leadership, largely dictates the tone of a ward. And since young single adult wards pull from a larger region than a typical ward, it's normal to see more diversity there.
There were many things I loved about the LDS church, and the one I miss now is my built-in community. But ultimately I couldn't stay in an organization that claims things about its foundation that I came to believe are not true.
Anyway, love your content. It's helped me process my thoughts and feelings during my experience leaving the faith.
I’m also an atheist but never went to the trouble of having my name removed. My wife is still a true believer and so I still attend occasionally for the sense of community. I go hiking with my bishop sometimes. He says I’m the most active atheist in the ward. I know there is plenty of batshit crazy stuff in LDS theology and history but that’s true of any religion from the outside looking in. It’s nice to hear from someone occasionally that also appreciates some of the positives despite the quirky parts of the origin story.
@johnlaraway3008 totally understand where you're coming from. We're happy to have you with us🙂
"But ultimately I couldn't stay in an organization that claims things about its foundation that I came to believe are not true." Don Bradley, a church historian, was like that and left the church. But when he did more historical research he found out his assumptions about what was "true" turned out to be wrong and there was more to it, which eventually led to his re-baptism.
"At least Im not at a kingdom hall" needs to be a T-shirt.
I'll by one!
@05:50 A belated happy birthday to you, sir.
It was interesting for you to go to a different Ward and learn about new types of Mormon members, but it was interesting for me to hear your story as a missionary, knowing that you're now atheist. Have you watched Alyssa Grenfell's videos?! You should, and then you two should interview each other! I would love to watch that.
Last Mother’s Day a man gave a talk on Heavenly Mother in my former Ward(I moved to a different state), I love talks that go into deep subjects sometimes. The reason why we may shy away from the interesting stuff is because in the New Testament, Paul advises “Milk before Meat”, and we’ve interpreted that as to mean we must primarily focus on the simple stuff first, especially for new people, and often times that gets to the more interesting things being forgotten. I’m kind of a nerd in Church theology and history so I like talking about that stuff.
The catch is that you can spend decades in the Church and never get any “meat” at all.
I’ve been a part of many many different wards all over the world. Yes, sadly the church buildings are super boring but the people are all pretty genuine. I definitely don’t go to church for the entertainment. Glad you got to see a different side of the Mormon church. Also, there aren’t any unsavory things in the temples lol.
There are things about LDS theology that I love:
1) God did not prepare a hell (eternal punishment) for His children or what Catholics call “purgatory.”
2) Latter-day Saints do not believe in a closed canon. It makes sense that God is not limited to only the Bible; His knowledge and wisdom are greater than that. That's why Latter-day Saints are open to receiving more scripture and revelation.
3) LDS theology emphasizes not only salvation but also progression. This means God put us on earth not only to be saved but also to progress. I think this reflects a more merciful plan from God for His children.
1) Well... not for roughly two-thirds of his children. The remaining third (however many billions those are) do receive eternal torment. Perhaps not a "prepared hell", but certainly suffering.
2) True.
3) True... according to what I learned and according to what is currently taught in the temple, but it feels like the potential to achieve godhood has been downplayed a lot recently.
@@Morstorpod 1- that isn't God doing that to them, it's the consequence of their decision. That's an important distinction.
3- It's still doctrine, we just don't know a whole lot so people tread lightly around the topic. It also invites a lot of mocking when approached flippantly.
@@markstenquist2315 1) Your statements are correct. Just reaffirming that the plan as taught within the the LDS doctrine does include immense suffering (whether caused by god or not, it is present), so it is not a religion without a "hell".
3) Correct. It is still doctrine, but things which have been taught as "doctrine" previously (e.g. priesthood/temple ban for black people) have been changed, so the potential that current doctrine may change in the future does exist. And this teaching has been downplayed in many places.
For example, the church newsroom website has a FAQ section with two questions regarding godhood. The first question asks if we can become gods, and the answer is not a simple "Yes". The second question asks if we get our own planet, and it responds "No" but does not clarify that exalted members will become gods of many planets (not just "one").
Another example, Hinckley's Time magazine interview. Where he said "I don't know that we teach it... I don't know a lot about it..." in reference to god was being a man. That is (or was) an explicit LDS teaching used as additional proof that we may one day be like him. He did it after all!
I hope this doctrine does not disappear since it is one of the cooler ones, but it wouldn't be the first time the church has substantially changed.
@@markstenquist2315doesn’t sound like an all loving god, sounds like gods love is conditional
@@Morstorpod The temple/priesthood ban was never canonized. The idea that we can become Gods is canonized. Acting like everything is free game to change in the future simply because of the priesthood/temple ban is silly.
Thank you for making the JDubs the butt of your jokes. It helps me laugh at a different upbringing.
LDS convert here. My experience was quite similar to your own! Mormonism is cool and Mormons have a lot of heart.
Sold your soul to a cult cuz the people were nice. Wow
@georgerafa5041 are you okay? You seem upset
@@kp6553 he seems upset. I hope he's okay too
@kp6553 high control cults are upsetting, of course.
Hey dude I love these videos. I’m an atheist Jew, it’d be really cool to see you go to shul sometime
@15:00🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 lol, I'm a member and the Ghost of BY cracked me up.
I absolutely loved my YSA ward before I left the church. It’s probably the most fun type of ward you could have attended.
This guy reminds me of my first love. So wonderfully intelligent, honest, and open to all knowledge without disgust trying to control others' thinking. Not afraid to go and be ones self. Love it!
I am also a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, loved this!
Man I hope you get to talk at some point with Alex O'Connor, your approach to atheism is quite interesting, I'm almost tempted to get back to church! 😂
Until they pray which causes you to burst out laughing. Agreed.
Alex is a great Atheist. Captain Come back to church!!!
The history of the mormon church in America is facinating!