Boxer Challenges Judoka + An Honest Discussion About Striker vs Grappler Matches
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- Опубликовано: 11 июл 2024
- Let's first watch and critique a match from a boxer dojostorming a mma gym opened by a Judoka, and then let's talk about striker vs grappler sparring and why they usually don't get it correct when it comes to measuring actual ability. Let me know if you agree with my thoughts and assessment. Also, what do you about this new wardrobe I have? Talk to you in the comments!
The match we commented is on douyin under 程程程老板. You can find them directly by searching that. Make sure to support them if you have a Douyin account!
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Timecodes:
0:00 Initial reaction
0:30 Slow motion reaction
1:06 An honest discussion
3:25 Personal updates 
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Great comments everyone! For once it’s an awesome comment section. Talk to you guys tomorrow!
Hey yall should join hands with the other RUclips's influencers and start philosopher guild of the like minded called the chrome lotus kinda like modern day stoicism dao tao Bushido guild
It's an interesting point that one of the ways in which submission fighting has an advantage over striking is that you can go much harder without seriously injuring your partner, and therefore a judoka can "friendly spar" at 90% whereas a boxer might "friendly spar" at 70% (you also develop sparring experience a lot faster in submission fighting styles because you can go several intense rounds every class). That said, in real style vs. style full contact fights, not sparring, we still see the submission fighter purist generally outperform the striking style purist (early UFC and Pride is a good example of this).
I want to say not even 70%, maybe closer to 20-30% unless you're really skilled like Jeff Chan or something. Going 100% is sure to gas yourself out so in a combat sports environment people are probably going 60% on average and dialing it up or down as necessary. If you spar at 70% you'll hurt each other, especially if you're not that skilled/fit. You can get tired and make mistakes--I say this with personal experience.
Ufc and pride are sanctioned combat too...grappler will always have an advantage in ring fighting
@@fazares Grapplers usually have a disadvantage in ring fighting (rounds, standup rule)
@@elenchusIf there's a standup rule, it depends on what the rule is. If the rule is like judo, where progress needs to be made within 5 seconds or it's a standup, then judo is prepared for that. If it's a general "10-15 seconds before standup", then yes, all grappling is at a disadvantage with a standup rule.
@@SeanWinters It depends on the competition. In KOD it's more like 10 seconds, but in most mainstream MMA competitions it's more ambiguous. They give them time to work but if no progress is being made they can be stood up after 30 seconds or a minute (however long the ref feels is right).
The big problem with that is that it incentivizes stalling. The concept of MMA is minimal-rules free fighting, and the introduction of a standup rule (and rounds) creates a perverse incentive for people to lay and pray. As a consequence, not only is submission fighting weakened, it's also much less exciting to watch in MMA than it would be if fighters needed to fight their way out and take some risks.
It's a slightly separate issue, but wall fighting has had a similar stalling effect but for takedowns. The standard approach now is to run backwards as fast as possible when someone's trying to take you down and lean against the cage. With the cage as a "third leg," fighters are just way more stable than they would be against the ropes or standing in the middle of the ring, again slowing down the action; this is less a product of a rule than the physical structure of modern MMA though.
I'm a judoka. I've dabbled in MMA and have 32 years of Judo experience. When I did Judo with a boxer I found that his footwork and sense of balance were excellent. So, I wouldn't suggest that they are easy to throw. Boxers have to have an understanding of posture and balance to generate effective punches.
True to some point, especially with boxers (as compared to kickboxers), but i’m sure once you closed the distance and put your hands on him it was game over. They do have some defense to offer, but their balance is not suited for grappling obviously. Not trying to cancel strikers by the way… to be a pure grappler with no real striking experience is a huge disadvantage all by itself, can end really bad for the grappler against the striker.
having good balance at all times can actually make strikers very vulnerable, and the best striking is controlled off balance motions, because that generates power that transfers even if intercepted. Jack Dempsey and Tyson being good examples
As someone who does bjj, I’ve always found the opposite experience. Tbh out of anyone in the population boxers seem to topple the easiest to double and single legs. Like when I touch them they fall over lol. Not invalidating your experience, just sharing mine
@@dirtpoorchris Sprawls are useless against judoka, mainly because we don't have leg grabs lol.
@@MatthewNguyen-zx3deJudo DOES have leg grabs. You’re referring to Olympic Judo.
The grappler did what he's supposed to do so no excuses. Most strikers specifically boxers have a bad habit of trying to feel their opponents and that's enough for a grappler to put you in a compromised position.
No glove no love how about the judo guy also wear glove or both don't wear gloves
As a judoka we almost always have our dominant foot in front. It’s strange, but the front is where most of our weapons come from.
Man it also works well here aswell because the boxer's dominant hand is farther away from you which means that you won't get k.o ed easily
Bruce Lee's JEET KUNE DO too emphasis on putting the Stronger Hand and Foot Infront!
I often put my weak foot forward because even experienced (high grade amateurs, like 3rd brown) often have trouble, or feel uncomfortable with a left side attack. Meanwhile as a shorter guy, I like the underarm back grip, really helps with tani otoshi.
@@SeanWintersi love the back grip for tani otoshit or even deashi barai is good with that grip especially curl ur elbow into the back to break his posture backwards
Makes perfect sense technically. But the boxer's left forward does still make it unorthodox because you'd have to switch your foot techniques if the guy had an idea how to defend at all
I fully agree with the point in the video. Many people seem to think that grappling arts are the ultimate martial arts in the world. There is no ultimate martial art. Thd skill and intent of the individual is everything.
Cant agree more than that
@@karatewithelian9014 definetely
If one can only train in just one art, grappling is way superior. Think of it this way. Even a decent high school wrestler would be a big problem for even a boxer like Mike Tyson to handle. But a high-school aged amateur boxer would have NO CHANCE against a NCAA D1 All-American wrestler.
The wrestler would shoot for a takedown, and Tyson has ONE CHANCE to land that perfect knockout punch. If he cannot get that one punch KO, the wrestler will clinch him, pick him up, and slam him to the concrete.
No, there are some martial arts that are objectively better than others for fighting. This isn't even debatable anymore.
@@user-sg8kq7ii3y Exactly!
This question has been answered many many times by the UFC, dating back 30 years to UFC 1. Each time with the striker having clear intentions. It's almost impossible to see this kind of matchup now due to well rounded skills in MMA. But I'd say even in the "modern" era, 2 clear examples that jump out are Couture vs. Toney, and Josh Koscheck running through Chris Leben on TUF 1 as basically a one dimensional wrestler.
Melvin Manhoef vs Sakuraba. That was one brutal striker vs grappler match. And Sakuraba was one amazing grappler.
Kimo vs Royce Gracie. Royce had to resort to pulling hair to win.
Kron Gracie matches
How about this one. 5 v 5. The guys who went to the ground regretted it: ruclips.net/video/wpO2DbYvsjs/видео.html
And this one. The untrained guy kept beating the trained fighter that tried to use jiu jitsu: ruclips.net/video/-ShHJT4zF0I/видео.html
My friend Jason's last MMA fight (he won it btw), he realized being a grappler, he was only saved by the mat. If the way he was slammed was on a different surface, he would have lost bad.
I love grappling as much as anyone who's into it, but it doesn't change the fact that in many "grappler vs striker" sparring sessions, there's always a mismatch in intention and level of commitment to the move. Hope you understand. This video is not in any way saying grappling is ineffective. However, many grapplers also get false confidence when they "spar" strikers.
I think that just like with grappling it really depends on the striker. If you think about how James Toney would fight he would be right in guys faces slipping and countering, that style is a wrestler wet dream because the hips are right there. When you think of someone like Israel Adesanya before he transitioned to MMA his style was to keep a long range and use his feet to get away which I think is a much harder style for a pure wrestler to deal with.
@@FightCommentary The reality still remains that grappling controls fights far more than striking ever can. Manhoef gets by on extreme power. Kimo was trained in grappling too. Kron Gracie was fighting MMAists who all grapple extensively. Cub Swanson, one of his opponents is a literal BJJ blackbelt.
Grappling is absolutely necessary. Even 'purists' like Adesanya could straight up submit most grapplers in any given gym.
If a striker has decent footwork and knows how to sprawl they can stop 90% of takedowns. Slick lateral and in and out footwork , Pivoting and countering , sprawling are very effective against wrestlers
My and my brother came to this same conclusion doing this same kind of mixed sparring. I do judo and he does boxing. Because he doesn't want to hurt me, he doesn't hit me hard enough to knock me out, but I can throw him around as hard as I want because I can control how he lands or how hard I choke. We just started doing points sparring where he gets points for hitting me and I get points for throws and we see who gets to ten or whatever points first.
This is a very interesting way of doing it, but I can't imagine it's even either. After all, a boxer must find it easier to land hits than a judoka lands throws, right? As a judoka(ikyu/1st degree brown) I know how tough it is to pull off a good throw, but getting a "point" is just a tad easier. Is the boxer's punch under scrutiny, like "you only get a point if it's a good, full contact hit"? Like, a punch to the shoulder wouldn't count? I'm interested how to make this fair.
@@SeanWinters A throw would have to be more points than a punch.
Yes, for judo you have you dominant side forward. That generally means you would see a judoka standing in a south paw stance.
I agree. If the grappler is allowed to use all his weapons why should the striker be limited?
It’s an art vs art. Boxers are only allowed to punch while judo is more diverse.
@@SOCyaki was talking in general, but even in this case the boxer had no intention to knock him out, yet the judoka did (were it for him to not tap). It's easier to keep intensity high while keeping damage low when grappling.
@@godofredo404but the boxer also punch fast and hard
it’s just a big advantage of submission fighting. You can totally dominate an opponent without even seriously hurting them. But people should not take it for granted that a judoka/wrestler can do some pretty decent damage with a takedown, particularly against someone without ukemi training. People just bounce their heads off the mat without that additional training.
@@SOCyakhe means going full contact.
hey buddy I hope your health improves. Been watching your videos for a few years now and I've seen your videos improving and getting better each time. Best wishes to you and your family. I hope you feel better soon
i agree with you that there was an intent mismatch. 0:44 those strikes were all probes, and pretty poor ones at that. he just wasted every strike. unless you're fighting against a skilled striker, you don't have to waste everything to probe. for example, a pro boxer (e.g., pacquiao) would have been throwing real crosses at the head that would stun/knock down any non-pro striker.
imo, this was a mix of both intent mismatch as well as skill level. the boxer didn't appear to be that dangerous of a puncher either.
Take care of yourself. Health is important. Once you get to middle age you'll end up paying for the neglect. This year has been teaching me this the hard way. 🙏 for your speedy recovery.
Great video. Love the Judo ones. Would love to see you take some beginner Judo classes to add to your commentary! (When you feel up to it).
You make a good point even though it's going over a lot of people's heads. You can friendly spar grappling and get to a point where you clearly win without hurting the other guy vs striking where it just doesnt work that way. Ive seen boxing sparring matches where the worse boxer thought he was winning just because the other guy was taking it easy on him. And there's a slippery slope where for the better striker to command respect and get the other guy's attention he's risking putting him in the hospital, so they get in the habit of erring on the side of caution and pacing themselves.
Love your videos Jerry. Stay awesome
Brilliant point, well done mate!
I do agree. The judo guy did well. The boxer using gloves removes any hope of a grappling defense - the even an untrained one. And his attacked were less then optimal as he was going to the body, not linking or moving with the understanding that the guy wanted to grab.
I enjoy these fights but the issue is multiple. No grappling is not better then striking. But Boxing (and striking in general) is only two skills (movement and punching). When I was young I had to deal with gangs and people trying to grab and unless I wanted to we didn’t because I struck for two reasons - to harm and to set up sweeps. I only once was on the ground with a grapplers because I was not trying to fight them I let them find out how hard walls, floors and tables were. Because as I say being a bigger black guy people tended to want to bring a friend.
To fight well (or even in self defense) you need multiple skills and no one is most important or supreme. Can’t fix a car wit just a wrench set - you need the entire tool box. So to be a good enough fighter you need some boxing, kicking, tripping, moving and grappling.
Get well soon and take care is yourself!
The gloves help a lot in allowing him to punch harder without breaking his hand though. It's a tool, not a handicap (unless you get grappled).
For a grappler is ridiculously easy to take a striker down.
For a striker is really diffucult to keep a fight on the feet against a grappler.
Once the fight goes to the ground the striker has nothing to do.
Then why do so many MMA fights end with KOs delivered with strikes while standing?
@@newagain9964because every single mma fighter knows grappling
He is talking about pure grappler vs pure striker
@@indiandictator4537 nice circular logic. Lemme break it down 4 u: A skilled striker with basic grappling skill/knowledge is usually gonna win vs a skilled grappler with basic striking skill/knowledge.
I like your cmemts. I train judo and did some time in an mma gym. Found it really interesting the intentions of all the different arts. And in particular the sports endgame. 10 point good sir
Nothing wrong with crossing the feet when you already have a solid RNC in place. I think Judokas often stand right foot forward. I know wrestlers do. I think it would be interesting to watch this match if they exchanged equipment. Have the striker wear the Gi and be barehanded and the Judoka shorts and boxing gloves, lol
Yes, we (Judokas) are taught dominant side forward since our dominant side is stronger. I find this actually gives me an edge in BJJ because BJJ stand orthodox, which gives me easier grips to their non-dominant side.
The equipment exchange would be hilarious to watch. Grapplers be like "wtf I can't grab with gloves" and strikers be like "wtf I can't strike without gloves."
@@HangmanActual Thank you!! lol
Judo typically has strong hand forward. Southpaw in judo is orthodox in striking and vice versa
Good thoughts on striker vs grappling. I had some of the same ideas, but you put it much better.
I think you’re absolutely absolutely right about the intention mismatch. I’ve got boxing and judo in my history. And I can imagine if I was boxing it would be a little more like sparring. But in judo, the idea is to submit the person as quickly as possible. So I think you’re making an excellent point.
Nice point Breakdown. I apretiate that.
Classic fist or twist match. Love to see it
I love that phrase. Gonna borrow it from you. "Fist or Twist match." LOVE IT!
Great points, I've made them many times. I'm a striker and when I spar with grapplers I always assume I will lose. Because their technic can be applied gradually in a non hostile situation, but mine can't. I'm not gonna try to nock them out or risk severe damage, so I'll just control connect until eventually I'll be under a lock
Crossing the feet is acceptable if its above the waist so he's ok
It's a great video.
Listen, I practiced judo then Karate Kyokushin for years, had50, maybe 60 street fights ( lost 2 ).
In 80% of cases there was close contact, grab and a sweep or throw to the ground.
This is how real fights work.
If you have any videos, please send our way!
Are you like a bouncer or something?
@@FightCommentary I am an old guy now and most of those fights happened in Poland, long before the age of cheap smartphones.
The fights in public... they happen so fast you have no time to think - you just react to a threat to neutralize.
Therefore the martial arts training is crucial.
Without it - you're just a pathetic victim.
I think the issue with most strikers to try to bring up a different area of discussion is that most mid to low level strikers aren’t great power punchers.
If there’s no power to a shot or fear of a strike there is no ability to change the position of the opponent and thus actually continue the game of striking, which requires space.
All a grappler has to do is tank or use striking as a means to an end to get into a clinch or mask a shot attempt. This is especially true, when the grappler realizes the striker can’t hurt him.
insightful discussion
Grappling is a fundamental part of fightinf, armed or unarmed, because it teaches you to control your opponent and take away his ability to defend himself. Even traditional kung fu is about 50-60% wrestling, same goes for karate.
Wow well said my friend. Yeah Boxers or strikers know we can easily break a nose or cause brain damage. VERY different than a "Tap" situation. Anyways hope you are good man!
"Tapping" is an artifact of training and fair competition; in real life, there is no tapping - you break the limb, or you choke the guy until he's unconscious. So it's no different from striking. If people could "tap" to a strike right before it hit them and give them a concussion in training, or competition, they would do so - it's possible in grappling because you can apply most submissions very slowly. You can't apply a strike slowly.
@@killersalmon4359The curtesy made by the striker physically affects (positively) the performance of the grappler, the opposite isn’t true.
You could argue that on a ring, the curtesy made by the grappler has a psychologically effects (positive) the striker but in a streetfight the opponent would not be aware of what you can do, it wouldn’t be a factor.
Exactly!!! You hit the nail on the head. It is all about intent. Most of the time, in a training scenario, the grappler is going 90-100% and the striker is going 20-40%. I had a friend that used to think he was the sh*t with grappling and would always win sessions in the gym. I told him that not everyone is going all out in training like him. One day, him and this new kid went all out and the new kid made him spit his mouth piece out and quit with striking.
Ouch! Sounds painful! Do you have footage?
@@FightCommentary lol nah, this was like 12 years ago and just a random day in the gym. I'm not a youtuber/vlogger lol
both sides have disadvantages because the grappler should be able to strike and grapple, not just grapple, so that the striker has multiple things to worry about , which can lead to getting taken down easier, also striker has disadvantages cause he can’t go all out, but grappler should be able to strike too and boxer go all out to see fair
@@Unknwn222 exactly!
Good story and then you woke up.lmao
6 out of 10 is WAY too generous. In a fight between newbies, I'd agree. But even mid to high level High School wrestlers would beat guys like Floyd Mayweather with little effort. Royce Vs Art, Toney vs Couture, every gracie challenge, the list goes on. Judo is the only one with a slight disadvantage because they keep their head so high up, typically.
The problem is, getting a 1 hit KO is reallllly hard, even for the best of strikers. The odds of a 1 hit KO is probably less than 1%. But, the odds of a takedown or clinch leading to one is basically 100% in a pure grappler vs pure striker fight.
Hope you feel better soon.
totally agree with the probabilities thing. The ability to apply maximum force in the much slower locks is maybe 30% on a resisting opponent, whereas applying maximum force in the much faster strike is much less (as you described 1%) because it's so difficult to connect to a moving opponent. And the ability to apply maximum force in the lock against an untrained opponent is almost 100%, whereas for striking would still be probably under 10% because it doesn't take training to dodge a punch if all you're going for is defence. It only takes training to dodge while staying in the fight.
Grappling odds might be lower than 60% if headbutts, bitting, slams and attack to vulnerable areas are allowed. The list is kinda big TBH, but people with healthy mind will often overlook this stuff. But grappling would probably do better even on those scenarios
@@marcosyy87 yeah, imagine in the pure style vs style days if the Gracie's invited champion muay thai guys, shooto guys, Kudo guys, or LETHWEI guys. I wonder how grappling would change against people that are trained to headbutt correctly. Can you imagine pulling guard (or doing anything that gives a lethwei maniac's head ability to strike you) on someone who takes that momentum and diving headbutts you? The diving headbutt is one of the most gnarly things I've ever seen. Dave Leduc has a great tutorial on it. Back in the day, I also did a video on Lethwei that featured the diving headbutt that I found on IG.
Grappling is king in ring fighting...outside of that no advantage
@@fazares I wouldn’t say it’s the king of ring fighting, but it might be the king of style vs. style fighting, which is basically dead. It is also the king of “style vs. style” “street fighting,” to the degree it’s a real thing and not a fantasy.
The days of jiujitsu, judo, or wrestling, just being able to waltz into MMA and dominate everything have been over for more than 20 years.
luv u... r vids.
Very interesting discussion. I would argue that this applies to striking style versus striking style sparring as well, depending on the styles in question. I have found that the Tongbeiquan and Xingyiquan that I use are tough to use at the low intensity level that boxers spar at. When sparring people of my own style the solution was to go high intensity, low impact. There’s also always at least some ego involved in these sort of matches, unfortunately…
Nice fight and commentary Jerry
I did both these at university I thought boxing combined with judo would be savage.
Now I do taiji and bjj just to annoy everyone 😂
Idk if my username is changed but I'm the guy with the funky username
Yeah, your handle changed! Tai chi and BJJ sounds awesome!
@@FightCommentary 😆😆 thanks
I'll try and change my handle if possible
Enjoy your staying home, I am in the same situation; one week vacation in my country and after getting back to “work “. Cheers ✊🏻👍🏻
I love the boxers style, can you pls. find more videos with him w diff. opponents?
On a sparring or friendly match I agree. But in a real competitive bout I would think the striker is going in for the kill. Hope you find real fights with strikers and grapplers to compare better
What do you think the judo guy gonna do
Totally agree with your point :)
Obviously the judoka knows well how to deal with strikers and has a good defense before going in for the takedown. Grappling can be king in a one one one fight but it can put you in a dangerous position in a delf defense situation.
Unless these matches are full contact then these matches are never fair because the grappler can go all out but the striker always holds back.
I’d say that’s just an inherent advantage of submission fighting, not a cause for unfairness. Regardless, there are tons, at least dozens, of recorded “real” fights where both are trying to do damage and the result is the same as we see in this video the vast majority of the time.
@@elenchusno real fights but ring fights
@@fazares Both are real fights, but yes, grappling is more powerful the fewer rules you have
Mandarin collar fire bruh 🔥
Jerry you pointed out a very unseen piont by Lektion out the gap between the Intention of a striker and a grappler in sparring. By the way Nice Tai Chi Suit ;)
This is perfect and never talked about. In a demonstration like this, the grappler can go like 85% and still have control of not injuring the opponent. But the striker must tone it down to like 50%. This gives the grappler the advantage as he can "not respect" the punch.
I don't know why I just restated what you said. You said it just fine. Thank you
Yeah ive noticed I'm more southpaw when doing judo, orthodox in muay thai, likely because the natural side for most people when throwing (like orthodox for boxing) is southpaw due to the side that you are supposed to turn
1) In Judo dominant hand is in front (mostly for having a strong grip). Ofcourse you can change stance and work both stances (like in Muay Thai).
2) That was a failed uchi mata.Bad executions can do their job done on non grappling fighters like here, dont have to be perfect.
3) There is nothing wrong crossing your feet, its also coming natural from human body.BJJ guys did the same at start, as they are a Judo variant.
4) Striker can win a grappler if he keeps the distance and hit fast and hard.But if a grappler catches you, its over. Thats why you must have an idea from both to be a better fighter.
Looked like uki goshi to me. He had no intention to lift the inside leg.
Your point about intention reminds me of one time i visited a boxing gym. Usually i train Choy Li Fut, my sifu is very old fashioned and we do lots of conditioning, forms, applications, and sparring. Thing is my Sifu always talked about how CTE is dangerous and how unless absolutely necessary you shouldn't be rattling the head too much, as a result when sparring we usually either slap the face, go lightly, or stop right before to indicate the hit but not cause damage, strikes to the rest of the body vary from light taps and indications to full power hits (although careful light sparring with emphasis on form is most common). The boxing gym i visited was one of those where they pretty much only do hard sparring, im aware that this is becoming less and less common with boxing gyms but nonetheless they are still around. when i boxed one of the fighters there, thinking this was a casual practice on a Tuesday i didnt think we were going to be going hard so my intent was to focus on the technique and not hit too hard, whereas the boxing guy was full on swinging. In the beginning of that round a did land a few hits but recieving a full on blow to the head, while it didnt KO me i was not in good form for the rest of that bout. Our intentions going into that bout were very different, and a striker going in with full intent to drop you is not someone to play games with.
Glad you’re okay. Sounds scary!
@@FightCommentary In the moment definitely was but it was a super interesting learning experience
I think I get what you're saying, Jerry, but do we really believe that in most of these cross-style matchups the striker is consciously deciding to only give out cheeky little love-taps? I know that in a responsible sparring world that would be the case, but most of the awesome stuff you are constantly digging up from the deeper, darker reaches of the Internet rarely feels that way.
Anyway, I hope your home break does you a lot of well-earned good, we all need to step away and reflect sometimes.
@@Muslim-3110 that’s definitely one thing we see from experienced strikers. They get taken down once and now it’s in their head. But I do think Jerry has a point, in a sparring match no one really wants to hurt each other and judo simply has great ability to fight hard without causing serious injury than boxing does.
Came for the discussion, stayed for the dripped out silk shirt
I got more costumes coming soon. Found my ninja costume!
I totally agree with that. Wrestling is not violent. You can use the most deadly moves on someone without hurting them at all and it's impossible for them to reject the fact that they lost. Striking, however, is very violent. Even if you don't force the guy to submit, you will leave them battered and bruised and in pain for days and if you go to the point of beating someone with striking then they will end up easily in the hospital or the grave. The striker obviously knows this and, if he's at all a nice guy, won't want to batter his sparring partner when he knows that he himself, even if he loses, will not end up battered and broken. The striker will naturally tone it way the hell down so as not to hurt anyone but striking do anything if you don't hurt people so it's really an incompatible matchup.
I'm a small guy, 5'6 130lbs, and big guys always wanna fight me because they can use their weight advantage and just bulldoze me. If they're out to embarrass me or whatever, they might not hurt me but there isn't too much I can do to them as a striker unless I have the intention of ripping their faces off and going for vital areas.. but then I'd be considered the bad guy. It's a really frustrating scenario. BJJ would solve that problem but I'm just making the same point as you.
I disagree tbh, early mma proved grappling beats striking 8/10 times even when both fighters want to win a cash prize and a title.
you misunderstood "intention". We're not talking about trying to win the match, we're instead talking about each move used in the match. Every move of a grappler is intended to go all the way, but not strikers. Like Jerry said, not every strike is intended to KO the opponent.
@@chimyshark I interpreted him differently (perhaps he can clarify). My reading is that judoka can go relatively hard even in a sparring session (as opposed to full contact, full force fighting) because they’re confident they can execute their techniques without seriously injuring the opponent. The boxer might want to hold back more because at the same intensity level, win or lose, his shots actually would be causing some injuries. That is, because judo gives you the option whether to hurt the opponent, and boxing does not, judo may have an advantage in friendly sparring matches. To dmfaccount’s point, however, this paradigm would evaporate in a “real” fight like an MMA competition where both fighters are actively doing their best to hurt each other, but even when we watch “real” style vs. style matches, the grapplers are overwhelmingly favored to win.
Because rules will always favour grapplers..a real street fight is different...no soft mat....no cage... no rules...😊
@@fazares Not having a soft mat would be an advantage to the grappler; the cage is a disadvantage to the grappler as well (the standard “anti-takedown” move is to run backwards as fast as possible and put your back up against the cage so you have three points of support). And the standup rule and rounds favor striking.
@@fazaresNah The Grapplers Dominate UFC 1,2,3 where doesn't have rules.
Thinking about it, it was probably next to impossible for the boxer to win. Boxing gloves aren't designed to create fight-ending strikes right off the bat. Even if the grappler was hit flush, he could likely keep fighting, whereas his techniques are able to end the fight quite swiftly, with the boxer having no way to properly defend while his hands are covered.
This bout seemed interesting at first, but in retrospect it was really quite silly.
Exactlly. Considering the gloves, the boxer has physical padding which restraints he's weapon somewhat from the get go, while the grappler's principle physical limitations are the same as they would be as in let's say street fight.
Bro i did not expect you to look like that, based on your voice i was expecting a midwestern white dude in a flannel shirt with a can of beer on the table
Huh, I've not really thought about that angle, and I wonder if it is true. I can certainly see it being true in a lot of cases.
Yes, the mismatch of intention tends to have this tap-out outcome more often than not. Also, if the striker is wearing boxing gloves he or she will have a huge disadvantage as soon as they are in a clinch (like, how are you going to grab anything yourself?)
What is a grappler to do though? The victory condition is a tap-out. This is probably why wrestling has pins instead of tap-outs. In sparring, opponents have to acknowledge what would be a stunning blow if it was full force. Maybe some kind of understanding has in place for these mixed style tests.
I've always been in the camp that a decent striker with adequate takedown defense will win more often than not. Maybe I've watched too many Cro-cop matches.......
I think it’s worth pointing out that almost all clinch fighters wear boxing gloves (Muay Thai) and you can still throw with boxing gloves (Muay Thai, sanda) or avoid takedowns. Judo also has victory by pin. I think people would be surprised how much grappling and even submissions you can do with boxing gloves on, although it is of course much harder. One of the best jiujitsu fighters alive actually only has his fingers on his right hand (just a thumb on his left), Jean Jacques Machado, and it doesn’t even slow him down.
I think the bigger question is, if he had the grappling prowess to out-grapple the judoka, why he decided to wear boxing gloves in the first place. It wasn’t required by the rules; the judoka wasn’t wearing gloves, so I can only presume he wanted to wear them.
@@elenchusSimilarly, people always think you need to train judo without gi or else it's useless IRL. As if everyone is shirtless, they assume it's difficult or unintuitive to grab someone. Sure you can't do sode throws but those are already difficult as it is.
@@SeanWinters Totally. Judo might be somewhat weakened in a no gi environment, but as we can see in the above video, it's far from useless. And that's just assuming that a judoka doesn't spend extra time developing their no gi skills, in which case there's basically no disadvantage. You basically just won't have most of your kumi kata and collar chokes, but with experience and/or training you will adapt pummeling, underhooks, overhooks, and so on and you'll refine your existing no gi chokes like triangles, head and arm chokes etc.
if the striker is MaxPan, he would knock out his opponent by hitting his stomach with his '海底撈'
0:29, crossing your feet isn't a bad idea in bjj. We tell white belts not to do that because they cross their ankles and lock them. If you have an asymetrical cross when you cross your feet (one ankle or foot is deeper than the other) it is a brilliant way to control your opponent. I do this all the time, and as a smaller guy I'm able to even better control larger opponents.
They really took my man’s shoes and expect him to move as good as he did
Never thought of that.
That is a very very shirt.
One of the shirts of all time.
When I started judo I was told dominant side forward
Boxers jumpingstyle is amazing.
Hope you get better man
I studied Isshinryu Karate, but Isshinryu is a combination of both striking and grappling. I am an A+ striker, but I actually know over 250 and probably around 300 unique submissions. There are 800 pressure points on the human body, which mid-level black belts know all of them.
You can cross feet when doing a RNC if you know what you’re doing. A lot of times I will cross my feet and bait people into attacking my feet with your hands, and then wrap my leg around their hand and arm trapping them.
Well, there is a video teaching how a boxer could dealing with CLINCH. Maybe this help the future boxers to deal with grapplers at least a little
All your hairs falls on/in your powerful mic / vacuum cleaner / Video game // Comic-Con Magic Staff (wathever it could be) ! ! !
😁
Is that a microphone or a muppet transformer?
Funniest thing ever
Yes right handed judo players have right leg and hand forward.
Its not very common to have players switch stances during a match especially at the highest levels of competition.
Also some people choose to stand and throw left handed even though they are right handed. An example is Ronda Rousey. This helped her in MMA because she already stands in a natural Orthodox stance so she can strike naturally and also do her throughs. Btw the Judo throw he does here is Uchi Mata.
Take care and strive to be well.
I agree with what you said about mismatched intentions. I sparred a Shuai Jiao guy years ago, whose skill was only matched by his ego. Time after time I put my hand on his throat but he never acknowledged it. So probably in his mind, he dominated me 100%. What was I supposed to do? Punch him full-force in the throat? Pull a Road House on him?
Striker needs more strikes or a lucky strike to knockout the Grappler. The grappler needs only one entry point to knock out the striker.
Yo practicaba Boxeo y se lo que es pelear con un grappler, si no le noqueas en menos de 15 segundos no hay forma en que puedas evitar que te lleve al suelo.
Judo == BJJ, great martial art,
Loved the comparison of Striker vs Grappler intensity
Submissions are way more polite than KO'ing people.
As predicted
1v1 is also a grappler’s comfort zone
In judo, we generally have our dominant foot forward.
If you cross your feet on top of the hip/leg then there is no problem, you can apply downward pressure to that side. It's probably even less of a problem against a striker.
We always have our dominant hand/foot leading, yes
He took him out masterfully.
In the street I have always use more my boxing skill than my judo/bjj … newaza can be dangerous in a street situation (more than 1 opponent ,etc…)
I feel like MMA competitions are the best to look at
When J.Kano said that he created a martial art for every situation he was not lying,same would happen agaist muay thai whatever and no i'm not a judo fighter despite i made a implementation of some moves.
I love judo and karate I made my own hybrid
The striker has pillows in his hands. Also boxers mostly try to go for headshots meanwhile if they get grappled they should just keep striking the exposed torso with full power. Not to mention kicks can be a great way to make distance.
I was wondering why you were sporting that shirt...
Hang in there, Jerry. Take care of you.
grapplign has always been superior, sometimes it loses but its rare. the human body is meant to be for grappling.
Completely two different situational techniques, e.g. you can punch two people, but you can never choke two people (unless you're fighting little kids)
@@scifi_shop I fight kids thats why im a grappler
the huge problem with boxing is because of the nature of the sport(and hte boxing gloves) they never learn how to control their opponents body so their opponent are always free to go inside,boxers knows only to strike leaving them vulnerable to grapplers,especialy with their "defence" covering their face with both of their hands,puting their elbows so high leaving expose their ribs for a throw.thats hwy you see traditional martial arts to not favor this boxing defence(only in emergency situations) because you invite your opponent to grapple you,plus in general the horizontal punches that many arts use(like boxing,karate etc) gives even more space for your opponent to shoot in and grapple with you versus the horrizontal punches that you cotninue ti have your elbow looking down so close the disatnce easyer if your oponent is going for a take down.1 of the reason many fighters and arts favors the vertical punch(buss ruten,wing chun)
If you take a guys back and have a good shot at getting your arm under his chin to choke or strangle him and cross your legs around him then yes juijitsu guys can attack your legs. However if they reach down with their hands to attack your legs then they cant defend the choke. If you are a good choker thats all the time you need to sink that choke big time.
We have had fights between the styles with no limitations in the intention at the first UFC fights before real MMA fighters existed and the results were very onesided. So if you train completly without any takedown-defense, I wouöd say 8 or 9 out of 10 is more realistic, when both oponents are on a similar level in their sport.
We need to do ufc 1 all over again people still aren't convinced anymore
Not over the shoulder (ippon seo nage) but hip extenion midline sweep (uchimata).
Yep, another judoka said it looked like an Uchi Mata
@@FightCommentary admittedly, I didn't check. Please forgive me for the redundancy.
Get well soon
Both boxing and Judo are lethal if you learn them both and use them together.
Judo without the use of grabbing a ki or clothing to perform a throw is better
In my opinion in the early ufcs the strikers didnt know who they were fighting until now they know more antigrappling
I knew this since UFC1.
So I should practice judo before boxing?
assuming you don’t intend to become a professional MMA fighter, just practice whatever you enjoy the most