Turbo 4AFE UPDATE + GOODBYE Bike Carb 4AGE recap - Project Underdog #12
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- Опубликовано: 28 май 2024
- Live streams: superpeer.com/driving4answers
4AGE cad files and channel support: driving-4-answers-shop.fourth...
midshipgarage.com/
www.weldspeed.com.au/
Patreon: / d4a
So in this video we're doing a big recap on the bike carb 4age and bidding farewell to it. We're also doing an update on the Turbo 4afe as it has also seen some progreess. The head is on, clutch, flywheel, transmission - it's basically ready to be installed into the MR2.
A special thank you to my patrons:
Daniel
Daniel Morgan
Pepe
Brian Alvarez
Jack H
Dave Westwood
Joe C
Zwoa Meda Beda
Toma Marini
#d4a #projectunderdog #bikecarb4age
00:00 Live streams, CAD files, etc.
03:35 Engine drop
04:26 Bike carb CONS
14:19 Bike carb PROS
20:25 Turbo 4AFE progress 
Авто/Мото
Live streams: superpeer.com/driving4answers
4AGE cad files and channel support: driving-4-answers-shop.fourthwall.com/
midshipgarage.com/
www.weldspeed.com.au/
Patreon: www.patreon.com/d4a
F@&k yeah, sir! Been waiting on this day for you. Thank you for including us on this journey with you and congratulations!
Throttle response is so important in a daily driver! Switching between a car with Drive by wire and another with a cable I noticed drive by wire feels a bit more like driving with cruise control buttons.
I feel weird with drive by wire, its like i dont have full control of rpm. Its annoying
I've seen a throttle body (BMW?) that was basically a combination of cable and drive-by-wire, the cable controlled the throttle but a servomotor could add or subtract from that
@@fuzzy1dk that is for the cruis controll
@@lorenzhartl8466 but it can also do everything drive-by-wire can, while still keeping the direct response of a cable
Drove an 04 f150 for work, that pedal had no resistance to it really. Nothing beats the real feel to the air hitting the butterfly to give you the feedback of where you're at for load and revs right though your right foot
When the filter is that close to the inlet, the cost in power is shockingly high.
Carb size is based abound torque, not the power. The trouble with bike carbs, when fitted to a car engine, is they are designed for a low torque engine that will have positive air pressure in the air box at high speed, when load demand on the engine is at it's highest. Lots of problems to sort out, so may just as well fit a pair of Webbers.
Same idea on the prep. I've spent too many years getting things to look pretty. We used to polish all alley castings, even the gearbox.
The last time we did this the casing split off the start line, never again, I just want to race🤤😆
I wouldn't have thought it makes any difference in terms of power where the filter sits. I'm not saying it doesn't, just that I don't understand why it would.
My thinking is, there will be a pressure drop across the filter material, such that the volume of air between the CV valves (or butterfly for ITBs) will reach a steady state in terms of pressure (assuming a steady load on the engine).
The bigger the volume, the longer it will take to reach this steady state granted, but where surely talking fractions of a second unless you've got your filters several meters away which is just silly.
So once the air pressure behind the filter has reached a steady state, how can the distance have any impact on total airflow (i.e. power)?
The only thing I can think of is maybe you use a larger surface area of the filter the further away you are from the trumpet, but I think this would only have an impact if you are really close to the trumpets. Once you are circa one diameter away I guess it stops making a difference.
I find more often than not there's something I haven't thought about which is why I like to ask the question. Good way to learn.
@@richardschofield2201 You answered your own question. Remember that the air intake had sufficient force to suck part of the ait filter in.
As a rule of thumb those foam filters need at least 25mm from the edge of the ram pipe. Interestingly on a metal case filter (like a K&N) the solid cover can act as a pressure wave reflector, with positive results
@@gothicpagan.666 I was organising and developing my thoughts on this as I was typing.
When I got to the end I had a choice to delete it all or re-write it but instead I chose neither and just hit the send button.
I had a 3rd gen that I put a 2zz and torsen in, and the torsen made a really nice difference :D
You could also either move the fulcrum of the throttle pedal closer to where it grabs the cable or move the cable attachment point closer to the fulcrum to give you more pedal travel for the same length cable travel
Very excited for the build! I hope the delays won't be too bad, I know how that feels lol!
Dude I just pick up a 1995 1.6 Corolla with 370,000 miles . Love your videos . 4AFE
Sounds like your bike carbs were hot from the heat soak, I would just put a kill switch to the ignition and crank a few before enabling it to get any fuel vapor out. Back in the 80's my dad put a tin shield and spacer that wasn't good at conducting heat between his carb and intake to help prevent vapor lock on a small block ford. Oddly enough your dyno numbers after the bike carbs and tune are exactly the same as my 96 Miata 1.8 from factory. Can't wait to see the new one in action, that throttle modulation returning will be a godsend.
As always, paying attention to your awesome videos and projects!
Grettings from Spain, from a 7a-fe driver!
Different folks for different "strokes" eh.
Regarding MPG stuff, I converted my 1983 Toyota Starlet to fuel injection and rebuilt the engine with a slightly uprated camshaft. My fuel consumption is 6 L/100 km in the city if I drive it nicely and 6.5 L/199 km if I am thrashing it
"And the livestreams were really fun"...
Never forget Fabio...
Hey maaaaaan!!!! So fun to put a face behind an avatar! Fortunately the face is different 😂 Fabio is a legend. I'm having him host the next stream.
@@d4a hahahaha, Italians man... On another note, I've seen stock cam 4agtes rev to 9000 with a gtx2860r and adjustable cam gears. It was a bigport engine as well. The guy only ran about 15 psi of boost, so he needed the revs to make that 300hp. It looked like it had a really meaty power band though, since boost came on relatively early and held steady until redline, so I'm looking forward to seeing how the 4a-fte will handle the boost as well. Might even make more power than the 4age bigport in some places, though I expect that the lack of adjustable timing will hurt in some places.
Looking good! I'm pumped to see how it turns out when it's all installed and you get started on the tune.
Great to see this coming together. I'm looking forward to seeing the practical application of the theory you've described so well in previous videos.
Love the videos, purchased a labour of love - aw11 targa/supercharged/auto and am working to modernise, manual, and bodily restore the car. Should have listened to your video about these but am hooked on seeing it returned to its glory.
Sweet! working in flip flops, my kinda mechanic.
Svaka čast na kanalu, stvarno super stvari ima u videima. Sretno sa projektom
Great stuff, looking forward to seeing it all come together now :)
Most carb people I know tended to reduce the number of carbs for tuning purposes. Each cylinder ultimately has different needs throughout the power band. And dialing in each carb was a huge P.I.T.A.
Really, a similar but better setup, would be the ITBs and fuel injection! I mean, if you REALLY wanted to be anal? You can put an afr sensor on each exhaust port to give each cylinder what it wants.
The content is definitely interesting. I’m watching someone else putting the 2ARFE and the 2GRFE engines in MR2s.
I’m playing with a 1NZFE until I get a garage, so that I can do a 3ZRFE swap. 🤣
from what ive gathered, each carb is tuned the same and the AFR sensor is down stream reading the exhaust from all the cylinders
I was waiting on an update for the 4AFE Turbo engine. Thank You.
A hoist definitely makes a world of a difference.. I pulled my N54 engine with an engine picker in a cold hanger and it was not fun.. Everything definitely took twice as long. Hype to observe this build, all the best with it! Thanks for another great upload
I simply cannot wait for the next series! I have a project that is going to be powered by a 4g63 turbo. I have a computer, all the supporting parts, and the fitting of the engine is underway as we type. I am pretty nervous about the initial setup and tuning of the project, I hope that you will continue to guide me as you have since I found your channel last year. Thanks for what you do!
Nice video, exciting project! Keep up the good work and these vidjayos !
Hi slav brother, first i wanna say , i visit your country in 2018 and it was great. Very beautiful nature. Second - i run my daily driver opel C20XE with bike ITB's, not carbs but EFI. No problem with pops and bangs. I guess your issue is related to how carbs works. After you turn the key of, you shut your spark, but fuel is still runnig in intake manifold. When you try to start the engine afterwards this fuel ignites and makes a bang in the manifold. I have to say there is significant improvement in the power of the car, i can tell that because my fuel injectors become too small and cant deliver enough fuel after 5000 rpm now(they are stock c20xe injectors). For your other statements i can say that you are completely right. ON/OFF throttle feeling can be inproved with EFI, but carbs are no good for daily driver. About fuel economy - with gentle throttle my ride(approximetly 190bhp by my calculations) burns 10litres /100 km, so i cant be unhappy. I would be happy to discuse those and other things with you. Keep posting good videos, thank you!
Gah I am stoked for this. I love this project so much. Keep up the great work!
Awesome stuff man! 👍I'm really looking forward to the "Lab" portion of Boost School! 🐌Also I laughed my ass off when I saw your wooden block tower to lift the car. And I thought I had it rough pulling an engine on a 5° sloped driveway. 😂
Great to see the updates. Smart to update to an e51 transmission, but it is a pain (as you confirmed). Mounts and the car body itself are different on the SC versus the NA model of the MK1. Another option for those considering staying NA….the ITB’s of the 20V 4AGE. The improved throttle response is driven by eliminating a large intake manifold, further compromised with the VTIS of the large port 16V 4AGE. This allows you to get the noise and throttle response of the bike carbs while maintaining the benefit of computer controlled fuel injection.
Greetings from Qz. Good stuff always!
dude i cant believe youve got almost 500k subs! what got my hooked as the itb aw11!
That was an interesting update.
I used to do a lot of motorcycle carb work, the newer the bike the more difficult it is to get working properly without the stock intake system. Honda's with 3 jet carbs are the most difficult (3 jets are pilot, primary main and secondary main)
The problems are usually around transition points, fix jetting at one rpm/throttle position and it may get so bad engine stops running somewhere else.
Motorcycle carbs can also have fuel problem as float bowl heat up, always an issue on short stops as fuel evaporates and fills intake system. Best thing to do is start with throttle fully wide open and let some vapor escape, be ready to shut throttle quick as engine fires up.
There are various other things I do to improve fuel delivery but it involves modifying internal parts of carbs.
One of the best 4 cylinders engine!
Another parts source option for the E51 (AW11 supercharger gearbox) is the ST205-GT4 (E154F) gearbox. I got one and transferred the internals into my MR2 superchargers' E51 case -- I think the Caldina GT4 manual boxes should also be a good source of a replacement internals. The bonus is you get :- triple cone second gear synchro and doubles on several other gears). I did this with my AW11 and the shifting is so good!
Love your stuff. Thanks.
Can't wait to see the result ! I really love that original choice ! Not that typical 3SGTE stuff, well done ! Would have love to see the Celica TS gearbox fitted to that engine, also cant wait to see what you gona do for the intercooling solution.
Yeah, 3sgte has been done to death honestly. The six speed one? C something? I really want to be a bit overkill on the transmission so I feel safe to be a bit stupid. Intercooling will be air to air and relatively straightforward, maybe with some fancy ducting or something.
@@d4a yes, 6 speed, i don’t know why I thought they were very strong ? But maybe a bit expensive too ? But yes super project coming for sure !
I like that you are prioritizing engine quality over looks.
radical my dude ... cant weight to see u rippin the turbo built engine in the mr2 bro ... i have a 1.7 build going rn myself bro so maybe after we both done we can line them up lol peace n love bro stay safe and keep it rad ... ps i got to check out the livestream website thing u got cuz i never heard that site .... peace brotha
Really interested in seeing the progress of this build. I have been a subscriber to your channel since you did the bike carb conversion.And from when you did the DIY polyurethane mounts.
Carbs are great, if you want to be tuning/tweaking them all the time and this goes for a bike or car engine that is not OEM, it is custom and that's we love it , especially cold start ups ITB's are always finicky, they are complex even to this day, they don't work like a unit like anything EFI, you'll find the new set up you are building to be more reliable simply for the reason you'll data to review and work with and it just makes life and tuning more reliable, especially with stock cams and they were decent from factory already, look forward to the rest of the build and the start up thats always great moment, more smiles to the mile 😎
Actually carbs aren't that great can't get equal fuel to every cylinder and run way to rich have cold start problems etc
Your bit on the throttle cable reminded me:
I used to drive a 'vette. OK OK OK, full disclosure: it was a Chevette. It was the first car I bought after losing my right leg and it was a manual.
I tied a rope to the throttle cable and attached a handle so my left thumb could help steer while providing a solid base from which to pull. Other than braking my left hand did most of the work.
Way fun way to drive. :-)
thanks fot the bikecarb recap. Looking to potentialiy do something similar on mine
Best mod for any machine, though expensive, hands down is a helical diff.
Glad to see you're sticking with it. =]
good to hear that your project is doing well. my SAAB 900 Project is done in April, but there is still alot to do in the next winter, mostly its the fight against my arch enemy, called Rust-us Maximus
Rustus Maximus! 😂
@@d4a His ancient roman brother was Biggus Dickus. makes sence, Rustus Maximus is indeed a big dick
This is what I'm looking for, a 900 Turbo, but they're absolute unicorns in my area of the US because not many were sold here.
I can’t wait to see next update
Good to see someone giving the 4AFE the appreciation it deserves.
I personally have a Toyota S engine powered car and I'm in the process of retrofitting a 5SFE engine because they're so cheap and attainable, I've been telling all my friends who are looking for 4AGE engines to simply buy a wrecked 7AFE powered Corolla because you can get a good condition engine for such a good price.
Sure the FE heads aren't perfect but they're a whole lot better than people give them credit for.
Hey man I don't know about shipping but if you need any interior or body parts or dashboards a guy dumped a bunch of aw11 stuff off to me years ago and I want it gone. It's free to you just split shipping with me. And this is all dope!!! I'm usually a 4age guy. I have a 4ag in my ae92 wagon with a "custom" single Weber side draft (actually I saw the video where you were checking gze Pistons on the 4afe head and figured I could put a 4age head on a 4afe bottom end). I love this build series and you are giving me a bunch of bad ideas!!! Thanks for the content!!!
Mechanic jesus going at it again
23:36 - If I coat stuff, I tell myself it's mainly for corrosion prevention but also looks good. Plus Car engines just get a little dirt and grease on them, not stuff that usually causes huge amounts of corrosion or makes it super dirty. And honestly, I look the bare aluminum look. Gonna be a nice build.
Carburetors can't change their settings on the go for fuel efficiency and emissions like EFI can, but having no electrical parts and being able to work on them with just a few basic tools is becoming more rare and special in the world today.
Brother I love you appreciate your content
Great update, I'm really looking forward to boost school.
I am really exacted for the tuning(maps) for this engine❤❤😀
To overcome the throttle pedal travel issue, could you not bolt on an interim step-down wheel where the pedal actuates a 'car sized' wheel with a 'bike sized' step down tethered to the carb throttle wheel. Possibly would help to smooth out the initial resistance also as you've have more torque over a wider travel. You could also mount it anywhere.
thanks
When driving on snow its good to have a smooth trottle response. Do you know if there is possible to have turbo in the 4AGE blacktop ITBs on a 3SGTE as an exemple?. The sound would be awsom.
Definitely possible. Weldspeed makes an intake manifold for that. Check out the link.
Toyota ran their 153E race engines (which are basically 3S-G's) with ITBs and mega boost, like 40 pounds, so yes absolutely. Also, every RB26 came stock with ITBs and twin turbos. Australia and New Zealand are very comfortable tuning engines with turbos and ITBs.
Not sure if you have heard of Garage 4AGE RUclips channel, but they do a lot of different things to the engine on dyno runs to see how hp output changes. I know you are putting your turbo engine in, just thought you could check it out if you want to tune this engine.
Garage 4age has some great dyno before and after videos comparing different mods. Your highway performance gains are probably a mixture from very short intake runners and ITBs. The trade off of short intake runners is often a loss in low end torque
It probably would have made more power with bigger carbs. quick search says the are 34-36mm somewhere. a 37mm runner dropped the power from 150kw to 125kw one of my setups. would have gained a little bit before it fell over due to higher air speed earlier
From experience I can tell you that carb pops on hot starts can melt and damage foam filters from the inside too.
Let’s say you’ve got any random supercharger and you want to mount it on your engine.
How do you align the v-belt to your supercharger pulley and how do you make it a mounting bracket?
I know it's a bit late to the game now, but did you look at your pilot jet settings for the hot start issues? Seems like turning the pilots in 1/4-1/2 turn could help that low engine speed fueling. Maybe not, but as someone who owns many old Japanese motorcycles that use 4 pack CV carb setups, that would be where I moved to at some point.
I read "Out with the old, in with the new" in ChrisFix's voice.
Lol engine went NYOM NYOM with the foam
7:18 - easy to fix if you spend a little time tweaking the linkage. Like you said
Most stock Japanese cars from some time after the 80s had dispensed with progressive throttles and are almost impossible to drive smoothly. My 2003 Accord is like that, as well as a friend's 2012 Mazda. I noticed it at the time and was told it's for a "sporty feel." Right. Moving on, I like the mesh on the carbs. Ingesting various animals into the engine also makes smooth driving a challenge due to the mixture ratio being hard to calibrate and the smell of burning flesh can be a distraction and safety hazard as your mind shifts to thoughts of lunch. Well done. 😉
😂😂
using my ke70 daiy my stock bluetop in 45 twin dcoes fully deleted ecu and tiny pneumatic correction to distributor... in small fuel pump i reach a bit more than 12 psi but it wont happent cause car drinks too much no fuel regulator yet so wont let my pump work if car no working aaaand sometimes i feel i have to switch off the pump in traffic hopping i wont forget to switch it on again . i dont push it much only some pushing for pleasure in fast gear changes and then just roll!!! my gear ratio due to 1.2 old diff short one top speed 180 about 8000 in 15 wheels !! can go 9000 but isnt right for a non opened engine!!! watch the same efficience as you watched .. 15 litres per 100 km 50% in town and a bit of slow touge to charge the battery !!! i deleted thermostat and with the oil cooler those cold days it burns some more!!!!!!! i did some trips average 90km/h and it was great nothing happents even droped at 9to10 litres per 100 and i was quiet happy
i dont think this car fits anymore in town.. !!!!! carbs need a hell of service and new parts even butterflies but cost too much so i might go ecu and throtlebodies
Excited for boost school 🤩🤩
what info did your machine shop need when you had them add oil squirters to the block?
Really nice video man. Do you have any motorcycle projects in the works?
ruclips.net/video/uI8s1nskqUY/видео.html
😁
Concrete engine?!
upgrade to the Flintstones car? hahahah
just kidding, very nice vid!
Carbs should have been with a plenum not like that. Will the fe have itbs?
I know how you feel about making your engine pretty😉
With age, you just want it to run well and not leak oil and other fluids everywhere!
I stopped "blinging" my engines 15 years ago😎😜
PS: My "american" MR2 (Fiero) puts 400+ HP through an open differential. It seems to handle it OK. I've heard that limited slip diffs can cause handling problems (torque steer?) in our type of cars!?
Yeah I've heard similar stuff too. I don't think I would have any major issues with an open diff but I feel like the torsen will improve things
if the differential is stiff yes
With so little time for the fuel to atomize, it makes sense that your car made max power at 12.5 AFR. There was probably a lot of liquid fuel particles that would have been impossible to burn in such a short time.
sjajan auto i prelepa bosna
What was your final jetting for your carbs
great vedio sir , can you tell which is better NA engine or a turbo engine build
depends on what you want.
What pilot jet size jet are you using?, clip position on your needle?, main jet size?, and how many turns out on your air/fuel screw?
I still know these by heart although I haven't touched them in over a year 😆. Stock pilots worked best, they were 45 I believe. Mains just a tiny bit bigger than stock, I think 148 or 150. Needle wasn't adjustable, you had to add washers. 1 washer over stock worked best. 3 turns out on the screw, but 2.5 worked ok too and helped with economy but felt a bit less enthusiastic and low throttle.
Thank you for the insight, much appreciate!
Those headers are DELICIOUS 🤤
Those were some Honda carbs, the same ones I have on my cbr600
we dont need aesthetics we put money into performance, because IT'S ABOUT DRIVE IT'S ABOUT POWER
Good 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
regarding the hot start pop: does your ignition run wasted spark?
yes
It does! And that is the underlying issue. You know your stuff 🧐
@@d4a you're too kind :) engineer and wannabe mechanic lol
But with a supercharger you’re going to need a blow off valve because the supercharger will drag on the engine during high rpm and closed throttle condition.
But if you have throttle before supercharger it’s not a problem
HINT
Please do a Video about piston pin offset. There are claims, that reversing the piston (if possible) and therefore reversing piston pin offset, brings power by reducing friction because of better rod angles during power stroke and there seems to be measurable benefits from it.
I have a 81 Corona with a 3TC engine
Would be a good idea switching the original carb for bike carbs?
When I did my 2ZZ-GE conversion, having a lift definitely helped get the old engine out and the new one in.
The lift is a 4 post platform lift though so the new engine because it has a 6 speed gearbox which is slightly longer, didn't fit between the platforms so I had put it in kinda diagonally lol.
Did you ever consider the 2ZZ-GE or were you always set on the turbo build?
Love from the Caribbean here, was planning on a 2zz swap as well but budget was tight so just ended up going back 4afe.......... but I've been watching an ae100 with a n/a 4afe doing 13s and I'm more than happy with those times from a lil fuel economy engine so my goal now is to get there bolt ons, piggy back etc.......... been posting to "driving 4 answers " for some help in my ques
I have a 4AFE in a 1999 Corolla AE111 6 speed. I put 1UZ injectors to run E85 fuel and it starts and runs as perfect as stock (and much cheaper). I set the timing at 15° at idle instead of 10° to enjoy the benefits of the higher octane. I was planning to swap a 20V but they are so damn expensive rn, and I already have two bluetops 16v in an AE86 + AE82. My FE is in very good condition so I'm definitely interested to do somthing special with it. Sorry if you already mentionned it, but did you upgrade the valve springs ? How many rpm are you planning to set the limiter ?
Thanks !
A fellow european 4A enthusiast.
Hi, yes I have upgraded the valve springs as I plan to rev to 7000. Didn't mention much yet in the vids. I used Opet Insignia 2.0 cdti springs, the later model with 5mm valve stems. Very modern and strong springs 😁 it took us ages to find something that fits as there are zero aftermarket options.
@@d4a thanks for the reply ! Can't wait to watch your next video
Can you please do an Iconic engines video on the Honda D-series engines?
Shit looks cash keep it up dude 👍
What was hp on the super charged version?
i dailied a worked small port with quad bodies and 282 cams, bike carbs probaly cheaper hahaha
I used to build turbo'd motorcycles, got pretty good at tuning carbs for boost. I have long wanted to put a turbo'd bike engine in a car but have yet to do it. Nothing like a 250hp powertrain that only weighs 200 pounds.
just a little question on carbs : I heard that you need to mount them flat in order that they work perfectly, but it seems that it was not the case on your engine. Have you heard about that on your side and finally it doesn't matter, or it is something you were not aware? or is it something you need to take care on carbs for cars and not with carbs for bikes?
Something like a side draft weber must be flat. But most bike carbs are cv carbs and they usually sit at about 45 degrees. This is of course model dependant and different bikes mount their engines in different ways and thus design the carb float and float bowls to accommodate for that.
Can you make an engine video about the VW EA827?
Did you get or make a custom turbo manifold or did you find one already made? I want to turbo my wagon on the near future but can’t find a manifold
:edit: nvm I watched the rest of the video 😂
I be impressed if you can get a usable 250hp out of it with high dollar (octane) gas. Good Luck
Actually going after Toyotas naming convention the old engine would be a 4A-G since the E stands for electronic fuel injection
What gear box is that? E series, or C series?
Are you using 16v or 20v arp head studs ?
16v...Maybe 20v wouldn't have had the same issues?
@@d4a oh ok yea cuz I need them for my 7afe turbo build
The wood thing ......lol
Try the throttle vacuum for advance it will not backfire never
Looking forward to seeing Project Underdog running.
I have used parts from a MK1 4A-GZE (big port). If anyone needs any part from it, feel free to hmu.
I definitely need the driveshaft hanger thing!
@@d4a I forgot to add that the engine was in RWD config. It was in my AE86 but I threw in an SR20DET instead
I think it still has the hanger?
@@d4a it was removed when the car's previous owner installed the engine in it, coz I haven't seen any brackets other than the alternator's :/
I'll hit you up on Instagram. I might be able to find that for you in our scrapyards
What car is 5his? What do you drive?