Debate: It’s Time to Treat China Like an Adversary not a Partner
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- Опубликовано: 19 окт 2024
- China: a partner or adversary? Nathan Law, Alan Mendoza, Shirley Yu and Vince Cable debate how nations should approach China on questions of Taiwan, Hong Kong, Covid-19, economics and national security.
Chaired by Manveen Rana.
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Do you agree it's time to take a tougher stance with China?
How, you delete any comment that is at all critical of the CCP!!!!!
Definitely
Yes, we need to relocate real industrial production and supply chains back to the west ... yesterday! Otherwise we're all doomed!
Yes. It's about time.
Definitely for the motion
Seriously, the very thing lacking in this so called debate is actual intelligence.
lol co-sign. The only knowledgeable person out of the four is the older white guy.
Too bad they didn't invite a qualified hyper genius like you to debate...
Why is Vince Cable commenting on China. He and Nick Clegg started the rot in the UK. Would not trust him with a sweet shop...
@Jay Mendoza China does not need Covid to destroy us. We have done that ourselves.
I've never heard more ignorant, middle-class, fact-free gut feeling laden tripe as what came from the Henry Jackson guy's mouth. What hubris!
Debate has to overcome prejudice, one of the hardest things to overcome when dealing with those who take a position of moral superiority.
Westerners are very racist the will never get over their inherent prejudices against Asian people.
@@dulcepericulum55 Asia treats the US as a friend because they treat China as the enemy. Figure that one out first then we talk some more
@@dulcepericulum55 a Chinese complaining about racism. What a joke
You cannot reason with commie stooges
@@dulcepericulum55 wait till you hear about racism in places like China where 100% of the population is yellow
Shirley Yu is for treating China as a partner. However, her tone and rhetoric damaged her argument. That poor microphone.
She could have stopped slapping the podium, like it had done something to her.
It was also all about "Stuff" and how China is able to provide said "Stuff", thus making China a good Partner. This is where a lot of disconnect is as "Stuff" accrual is a very Eastern motivator whereas the West is moving past this more more. China has nothing to offer on thought, expansion of experience that the West and elsewhere is looking for due to how the State is run. So offering "Stuff" and more "Stuff" is their only way to Partner - "Stuff" can be Silicon, Roads, infratructure, mobile phones. Notice how this is the only offering in all pro China discussions.
It’s more than tone and rhetoric. Her ideas are fundamentally damaged too
🤣
And poor brain
Shirley seemed pissed when she spoke. Honestly does she believe in her own speech?
thats because most chinese are pissed at western efforts to contain china's growth. Imagine if china sanctioned united states's based on its human rights record, 2 percent of population are in jail or have been in jail, most of which are black and brown, indiscriminate drone strikes of muslim civilians with the most recent one in syria and afghanistan where children were killed or anti chinese racial hate coming from the top of the white office under trump. imagine if china unilaterally sent warships to contain american aggressions in iraq afghanistan, syria and libya under the freedom of navigation act. Imagine china sent aircraft carriers 12 miles off california or new york shores. Just imagine if china adopted western liberal democracy and behaved the same way united states behaves internationally
@@levelazn Shut up, you Kunflu creator. Stop releasing biological weapons on us.
Yes she is full on ccp servant
Unfortunately yes
Yup. Nothing says that she doesn’t
Shirley Yu is incorrect about elite US Univ like Harvard feeling pressure admitting Chinese. Not at all. The two nationalities among all countries are the highest at Harvard: China and India. Harvard is happy to have Chinese students. No pressure at all.
Do you know these universities are under investigation? Read more
The nationality with the most people by far at Harvard is America
It’s starting to go down and that’s a good thing
Shirley Yu basically said the Western world shouldn't treat China as an adversary because at some point China will be able to dominate the US. That sounds fairly adversarial.
Not really. It's inevitable that when China reaches parity in productivity, its gdp will guarantee it surpasses the American economy three to four fold, simply in terms of population.
The only adversarial hostilities are coming from the US, in a vindictive attempt at stalling or wrecking another nations peaceful rise, one it deems a threat to its hegemony.
@@pikachus5m166 you haven’t said anything to contradict me. China will have a larger economy therefore we shouldn’t consider them an adversary? That seems like poor reasoning. Also, peaceful rise? Tibet might disagree. Taiwan don’t seem to think it will be peaceful. India would likely also disagree. Uighurs might have something to say about that too. Philippine fishermen also might wonder about that. Australia have also had to suffer China’s economic bullying. And we’ve all suffered a global pandemic thanks to the opacity of the Chinese Communist Party.
@@tazldn6463 You that brainwashed ?
1. 75k Tibetans have returned, out of 150k, due to lack of opportunities and discrimination in Indian controlled S.Tibet.
2. DPP, nothing but an American backed stooge government. That staged phonecall was risibly hilarious, as was the recent transgender debacle.
3. India bought American silence over Kashmir, in return they tested the LAC and were totally wrongfooted.
4. Uyghur issue fabricated by the US, having spent several decades formulating unrest and promoting terrorism. Genocide ? Where are the refugees ?
5. SCS issue with the Philippines concocted and represented by American lawyers at the Hague, despite the US not signatory. President Aquino, another stooge.
6. Australia, an economy that benifitted greatly from trade with China, had to tow the American line, too poodlelised a vassal state to do otherwise.
7. If ever the motive, means and capabilities for releasing a pathogen designed to wreck a nations economy, the US stands tall, from smallpox blankets to the recent uranium depleted munitions, Covid19, made in the USA.
@@pikachus5m166 oh I get it. You’re one of those… All good. Enjoy your ideology or get your paycheque, whichever it is. Have a nice day.
@@tazldn6463 One of those ? Wumao ? 50cent ? Commie simp ? ... not in the slightest, just someone who can see through the propaganda of manufacturing consent for war, and if you're so convinced about free speech, are you protesting for the rights of Assange, Hale, Snowden etc or just a gullible shill ?
Nathan Law was a rioter in Hong Kong.
Rioting is terrorism!
Jail the rioters for ever; return peace to real ordinary Hong Kong citizens!
I have sold all my stocks that are connected with China CCP ! It's high time we as a country do the same...I will not dismiss their attack on human rights!
You are totally fine with America human rights in Afghanistan ? Bird of the same feathers...
It all boils down to how the West couldn't handle a rising Eastern power. That's the truth.
Wall Street still have more than $1.9 trillion invested in China. Wall Street will kiss China leaders ass to get back their investment.
Question to Mr. Cabe, side of partnership with China. “....Don’t mess with us. (China)”. Why is China
messing with Philippine and Taiwanese sovereignty, not to mention bullying in the South China Sea
and other international waters?
Taiwan is like Crimea of Russia in China
Do you actually know that the official name of the government of Taiwan is called Republic of China? The fact that the mainland China (now under the leadership of the CCP) grows fast and the province Taiwan (now under the leadership of the DPP) becomes comparatively "weaker" doesn't make the separatism on the Taiwan side legitimate. It's simply some politicians who want to make profits by using Taiwanese sovereignty as a good excuse and thus gain the power.
Both "Chinas" claim the reunification of CHINA and it is formally written down in their constitutions. Technically speaking the Chinese civil war hasn't come to an end.
@@yoohama4805 Taiwan is to China what Sudetenland is to Nazi Germany
@@lli73cn the point is the Republic of China is not the People’s Republic of China. If PRC attacks ROC others countries can help similar to how when the Korean War started the world helped the South fight off the North
Taiwan is not a sovereign country, but a breakaway province from China (like Donestsk). And the Philippines are now a world joke for re-electing a corrupt relic from the 1980s
How can you listen to someone screaming at you?
It not screaming she is loud n😜
You can’t
How can someone screaming at you listen? 🧐
How can you invite someone who only screams at you for a talk?
You cant. She should’ve never been invited
Shirley Yu and Victor Gao have one thing in common: Yelling as loud as possible, being aggressive as much as possible on every aspects that make China looks bad. Is that necessary to express your ideas like that, Yu and Gao? I don't think so. It is NOT the educated and civilised expression on the world debate. Be educated and civilised!
LOL, when you are around a bunch starving, desperate mad dogs, what do you do? on you knee and try to satisfy them. they will eat you live. illusional is not the choice
Shirley yu's line of argument would have find resonance with the audience if the latter are nationalistic Chinese. A total disservice to her debating team.
i agree with her. She makes her point with statistics rather than anecdotal labels
@@levelazn With what stats; the percentage of Africa she owns lol or the BS bubble economy numbers??? Here states made the other sides point almost as well as here wearing that 20% of African wealth in pearls on here person, totally the kinda person you can partner with the massive pearl wearing commie hypocrite, right sure and she got a bridge to sell ya too which will only collapse on a year on an old folks home like that one in Italy china built. While lot of Tofu construction in her argument if you have a clue.
@@shawndaly4415 bs bubble economy ? Is it hard to imagine that a country with almost 5x the population to have a bigger economy ? Have you visited China and seen what current Chinese cities look like ?
@@levelazn I have back when you could. They are building empty apartment blocs in the desert that will never be occupied, everything they build of TOFU and comes apart in the rain and most people there are still living in the thirds world. Also now they are totally breaking down as a society under covid totally unable to control it without literately putting every one in prison, see how long that works for them. China just has 5 times as many old illiterate small farmers to retire or get out of ultra poverty doesn't equate to a bigger economy then a country with five times the number of people under 30 and the youngest population in the developed world ready to work in and drive an economy instead of be a burden on it like the vast majority of the Chinese aged population and little emperors who will never get married and breed. China is a common women with a painted face and a vulgar excess of pearls bragging about their wealth while really just giving away how poor and desperate they are to not be. ROLF
@@shawndaly4415 empty apartments in the desert? lol have you been to china? those empty apartments are now all filled up. China has 1.5 billion people and have a housing shortage. the chinese are building homes for the next 20 years!!!!
Before
53%: "treat as adversary", 22%: "treat as partner", 23%:"undecided"
After
69%: "treat as adversary", 23%: "treat as partner", 8%: "undecided"
@Jay Mendoza your incompetent government murdered your mom. 99.9999% of Chinese moms are enjoying totally COVID free lives
Yes, China is the enemy. Not because we choose to see it this way but because it chooses to treat everyone else like their adversary.
@Jay Mendoza yes China unleash bio weapon but so dumb they unleashed it in China first 😂. Try Fort Detrick my misinformed friend.
@@bifrostbeberast3246 everyone? like who?
@@ktay1018 Africa: Building "infrastructure" that cannot be paid for, therefore asking for harbours and other assets in return as "payment". Only using own contractors and chinese companies to build this "infrastructure" in their countries, not even creating jobs for the locals. Obviously dept traps designed to increase Chinas influence over these third world countries and get their hands on local resources.
Europe: Using wolf warrior diplomacy and threats to keep Taiwan under Chinas thumb and european "partners" in line. There is no real partnership as long as China interfers in other countries internal affairs wherever possible.
Australia, US: I don't have to start here - I guess you know how hard China tries to get influence in these countries, you know about the threats of China towards Australia because Australia asked for an independent investigation into the origin of the Wuhan Virus. How hard China tries to bend Australia to its will. Confucius Institutes used for spying on Chinese abroad and their host countries, mixing military with civilians to create the United Front and push Chinas agenda world wide, making every Chinese citizen in every country of the world become a potential spy and target for their host country.
China uses the most dystopian and filthy ways of subversion, bribery, coercion and bullying to bend other nations to its will. I wonder how the world did not realize this earlier. I guess because of the high level of corruption in the western world. Our governments are everything but not flawless. But the point is, we are not discussing about the west here, we discuss, why everyone antagonizes China and why everyone SHOULD antagonize it, for what it is and what it tries to achieve.
How does Shirley Yu's arguments support partnership? Her examples of progress by competition highlight the value of adversarial relationships. Tribalism and fear are powerful motivators.
Her argument is basically you have to partner with China because you really don't have a choice. It is a very powerful argument if it is true. And I think it is true.
@@bobcharles7716 UK is a tiny thing that nobody cares. It has no qualification to be a partner or adversary of China. China simply ignore this country in its diplomatic consideration
It's not true, but people like you are the downfall of the west with this negative defeatist personality.
@@bobcharles7716 white nationalism and fear is all the west ever does what are u saying
@@kmtgoddess7793 I trying to point out to people China may be different and you may not like them, and you may be offended by them. But you need them. If you need them better to partner up with them!
Probably Shirley Yu would prefer to be on the adversary side, that is why she has to shout to convince herself and everybody of her partner stance. Lol
That was a set-up. She was just chosen to make her side look weak and unconvincing.
@@numuves her “side” is naturally weak and unconvincing. No one needs to make it look that
Shirley Yu is terrifying - she's all over the place, sometimes arguing against herself!
For Shirley Yu, economics is the measure of all things, and in such absolute terms, no middle ground.
She would be a good fit on Trump's cabinet.
Trump doesnt want a socialist pro beijing Shirley. You can take her to Africa.
Shirley Yu is incorrect about elite US Univ like Harvard feeling pressure admitting Chinese. Not at all. The two nationalities among all countries are the highest at Harvard: China and India. Harvard is happy to have Chinese students. No pressure at all.
Full of CCP's 50 cent army in comment section.
Why do you call commentator fifty centa. Are you saying only you can talk and other cant.
Many of us are pro China . We are not communist but we see hypocrite, racially biased intention here. China has change and for those who have been there , we see the change. Basically, China build and Western Allies invade, lies and sanction. I am glad Chinese diaspora have now taken the brave action of speaking out. Listen and not call people who dont agree with you fifty cents.
@@myhhlim why so offended by a comment from a non relevant person?
@@noeswantra2295 how do you like it if I keep on slandering you without any evidence. Did you forgot the racial abuse in America and Australia. Many of us have children staying overseas. Dont think only one side can slander people and get away with it
I was so touched by Shirley Yu's arguments. Such a patriotic and intelligent person should go back China to contribute to improve the country's soft power rather than teach in western universities that don't understand the China in her heart!!
Isn't it the west that has committed genocide throughout history? be it against jews, native american indians, aboriginals, even slaughtering byzantine christians. of course if called one one has a long row. and remember the time of the final judgment
"The west"...
You generalize countles different nations as one, like the chinese ignorant xenophobe you are.
Sounds like a great idea! She should go back, shouldn’t she? Wait! No, she can’t! Cuz she has to keep a watchful eye on the west! Duh! 😄
@@MathGPT when it comes to threats, many countries will agree that the west is a threat, especially when they interfere and dictate the politics of other countries.. if China is a threat, do you think 150 countries will sign a BRI project cooperation agreement ?
@@MathGPT I can laugh out loud at your answer. The U.S. is not a threat, tell them in the Middle East, in Africa, in South America, in Asia. certainly not a threat because you are his ally who monopolizes the world, not letting developing countries become rich. I think this is not a secret in many countries
Vince Cable is such a disappointment.
disappointment as in only objective and intelligent mind at the event?
As others have pointed out, the censoring that takes place around the 49th minute is disheartening and that alone shows us why this proposition is a no brainer: adversary.
Freedom of speech with China characteristics
Good catch
I think it was just a technical glitch but I understand where you’re coming from. This debate could never happen in China that’s for sure
Disheartening but expected
I didn't watch the video 'cause I know it's a waste of time.
As a Chinese here's my point: I don't know whether my country will take the "dominating" role as the current US, or create a multipolar world as our leader stated.
One thing I'm 100% sure is that China will never BE dominated by the west again like in the 19th century. And I think this is what some western people are really afraid of and why they are having these debates. Your country (and the US) was strengthend through war, colonism, looting and stealing. Even in the 21st century, you are not able to get rid of the mindset of having superiority over Asian and African people. This indeed is a question and should be debated by your people.
China on the other hand, as I said, will take notes of the past, learn from it and progress like no other. As for how much and what we'll learn and use, I do not know. Hegemony and colonism are western things that makes the world suffer and no Chinese will like it. So I hope they will not go down that path but again, I believe they have figured out better ways to adopt the new age. So for this topic, is probably important to you, but not the subject itself. BTW, no one would reject real tangible cooperations. So opportunities are there, and China has plenty now. Personal Opinions.
Totally agree. That such debates should even exist can only mean that the Cold War mindset is still alive and kicking. And many are still living in their colonial days. Seriously why should one make enemies instead of friends. Where has that refrain “Make love not war” gone?
So-called debates like this are fueled by the Western fear of losing their economic, military and their fallacious "moral" superiority over others,
Can’t agree with you more.
@@angatheart with that kind of mindset from the Western establishment, it's no wonder they look at others as an adversary..there is no room for compromise and analysing the other side's point of view is treason to them..
U just described hypocrisy and double standard.
The 'lock-up' of tennis player Peng Shuai is a reminder that China is a fragile superpower, citizen journalist Zhang Zhan is still in a Chinese prison for reporting from Wuhan during the height of the city's coronavirus outbreak in 2020? Her family says she is on a hunger strike, and she is near death. All calls for her release have gone unheeded. Much of the world has condemned China’s detention of Uyghurs in Xinjiang.
Show your evidences before you speak. Or else don't speak. Accuse without any proven facts are bullshits and slanderous.
China's position on freedom of speech and the press is quite clear. However, what is quite revealing is that a democracy which pretends to value free speech and the a free media, the US, has launched a campaign against Julia Assange, Chelsea Manning, Edward Snowden and many others for raising their voices and exposing human rights violations committed by their government at home and abroad.
It is clear to anyone that the US and EU should refrain from pointing a finger at China, when they themselves have for many years committed human rights violations to a vast degree. And to add salt to injury, the US decided to sanction the senior officials of International Criminal Court, for launching an investigation into war crimes committed by the US in Iraq and Afghanistan. Clearly something is broken in the US democracy, it is currently recognized as an anocracy.
Haha she was never locked up so fking uninformed
Your comment is a reminder of western fake news, false accusation and brainwash of misinformed mass.
🇺🇳58:59
We democraties should NOT negotiate with terorists, but protect them people in risky places so they can't be kidnapped and NOT do trade with (wannabe) dictatorschips and country's that not respect human rights.
Taliban: you are absolutely correct!
Sounds like you live in the wrong country. Go back to China then.
We democraties should NOT negotiate with terorists [but only promote terrorists like ETIM]
@Router X Yeah, Han are super native in Canada as well, right? Stop talking out of your arse. If you don't like living in a democracy, go to what you consider home.
@Router X HAhahaha yeah, Chinese even fail to fight for their rights in their own home country China. You are a joke.
I’m not sure why anyone wants to listen to what Vince Cable has to say. He sold our everything he believed in in 2010, then had the audacity to say he was proud of his time in government. Another failed politician that can seek employment with the EU I guess.
You don't like what you hear so you try to smear him. Children's games.
OK Tory boy...
Technology has One language its called Science and it is an International language .
are you sure? I don't write Javascript in Chinese.
A bit random but what ever floats your boat
What?
US should compete with China at all aspects, Chinese students and worker simply put more hours into it overall, why don’t Chinese deserve better life. Accusing Government form is an excuse.
China without CCP can be a partner. With CCP, the answer is no. CCP has done a fantastic job in mixing these two things: China and CCP. The criticism is against CCP. But CCP converts it to a criticism against China.
What are you talking about? The CCP is the Chinese people...
"CCP has done a fantastic job in mixing these two things: China and CCP." Imagine accusing China of not knowing itself, yeah says you, an outsider, lol.
@@ktay1018 I was born and raised in China. All four of grandparents and both parents were/are CCP members. I heard gun shots all night June 3, 1989. I am not an outsider.
Just think about what you would feel if Democrats or Republicans accuse foreigners of insulting American people if the the criticism is on the their party’s policies/stupidity? Yeah, that is exactly what CCP has been doing.
@@guodah77 You are a bit naive...Have you any idea how the US had its way around the world? Not to mention the kent state shooting or the bombing of Philadelphia??
@@archangel7052 sorry that I cannot get your point. Are you talking about America or China?
@@guodah77 I'm saying the US government is no better.
Adversary
Love that adversarial spirit from a Japanese, we DO have unsettled business to settle
Ja Ja, to a Japanese, China is the adversary! But Japan is the enemy of a lot Asian countries including China plus Russia. Japan is not popular at all in Asia, right?! Japan does not have a friend in Asia right. Japan has to pretend somehow it had joined the West. Ask around Asians, who is the adversary! Just remembered that Japan had killed 300,000 Chinese just in one city, called Nanjing. Not mention, in Melbourne war museum, a Japanese solider cut the Australia solider head.in the same manner as to cut the Chinese head off!.. A Japanese talked about Chinese is an Adversary...what a joke!
I am Chinese. In china nowadays, you publicly critisize CCP, no problem, if your influnence is small. like your words, your thoughts only reach your family, your colleagues, your friends, it is fine, because no way any government can monitor people so deeply. But if you have much bigger influnence, like 100 k people, you always talk about ideas conflicting with CCP, it will be not tolerated.
Agreed it's the same reason January 6 at Capitol Hill wasn't TOLERATED, over 400 protesters jailed,punished and one unarmed woman shot to death point blank by Washington police, Nathan is so lucky he can throw Petro bombs at police and still be standing here today perpetrating LIES,if he'd done the same in US,UK, FRANCE he would have been shot dead , he's such a MHORON(excuse the H)
Define conflicting ideas.
@@questworldmatrix I think he means stirring up trouble in the masses which could lead to civil violence and even terrorism so that innocent people will also be hurt, in America we DO NOT TOLERATE that either, Jan 6 at Capitol Hill is an example America doesn't tolerate
As it should be. Stable society precedes so called democracy or dissenting views
Am afraid that you must be either misinformed or brainwashed from your upbringing. Whoever you are, wake up to the call of humanity. Just sad to see someone like you.
I will certainly avoid Shirley Yu's lecture if she is a teacher in my school!
Shirley should not be a teacher in the beginning
It’s a scandal the US hasn’t cancelled her visa yet and deported her back to China
I second that
Strongly agree. She is aggressive, unbalanced, preachy, and boring.
I would avoid the university she is lecturing in
The reason why this motion is even on the table for debate is because China has changed, behaving more like an adversary than a partner to put it mildly.
Are you sure? Because I saw US changing its stance towards China in the last decade, China holding it positions more or less unchanged.
@@euunul china’s position doesn’t change because it is a fascist country
China has changed but not in a bad way. US is just scare that their seat is not stable anymore and is jealous of their success.
To say China has changed it's behaviour to an adversary than a partner is a strawman argument put by the Murica to instill fear into it's people (and those of its poodles). No hard irrefutable evidence is ever provided besides misrepresentation, disinformation & outright propaganda.
Why would we not treat a country that has clearly been positioning itself as an adversary as just that? They are being adversarial and increasingly so, it’s a question that answers itself.
if someone incites a riot in your backyard and then accuse you of genocide, I'm sure you'll be real friendly eh, what are partners for after all
@Pat M the US has so many bases and such a large military budget because that’s what we have agreed to do for allied nations after WW2 in exchange for those allied nations to topple the Soviet Union. The US is the world police so to speak because that’s what the allied nations asked the US to do so that there could be global trade. It wasn’t until the Trump administration that we finally started to renegotiate that agreement and are continuing to do so under the Biden administration which is causing a lot of tensions because if the US isn’t doing it that means everyone has to pay for their own security (and most countries can’t afford it).
@@rabbitsforyang8273 what are you even talking about?
@@robertroe9563 Probably something about HK separatists meeting up with US politicians. That's much like US Capitol Hill riots traveling to meet Beijing politicians.
Not to mention the HK separatists were given assurance that they have US backing. Definitely not something you do to your trade partner.
@@isoboy2125 if china hadn’t been positioning itself as an enemy long before anything going on with HK then there may be substance but the reality is china has been positioning itself as an adversary to western civilization for a long time.
One of Shirleys starting arguments is far from factual , China’s should be seen as a partner because they develop and can share their technology? That technology has been proven to be a lot of the times stolen from the west , that technology is not used to improve the life’s of their citizens but to suprese human rights and freedoms ex. Facial recognition being used to identify if someone is a good citizen (on criteria like using swear words or don’t visiting ones parents) and later be punished for not being it. Some may say that Chinas business is Chinas business but China has and will repeatedly get into other countries business and actively hurt the world. The fact that China didn’t report covid-19 existence when discovered has now lead to million dead and a world pandemic should be enough to see that China doesn’t want to help the rest of the world.
Russia which do share some similarities to China (espionage, human rights crimes, taking land which isn’t theirs etc) has been partially slowed down due to EU and US sanctions (would probably be more effective if China didn’t continue trade with Russia) ex. the prohibition of building the Russian German gasline helped keep Ukraine safe, now when Biden has allowed the German gasline suddenly Russia has put large forces on Ukraine/Russian border. This shows how sanctions can direct and correct behavior.
When China doesn’t follow international standards around human rights, corporal espionage, military actions they should meet consequences such as sanctions and limited trade.
I mean there are better arguments for treating China as a partner even if I don’t really stand on that side of the argument. Ex. Treating China as an advercery may hurt the Chinese people more than the Chinese government by the government prioritizing aggressive political moves like weapon development over the welfare of its people like we see in Russian and North Korea sanctions has only worsened the economic possibilities of the people while the government of those countries countinue to live lavish life styles.
Or another ex. How can the West guarantee that their influence will be positive? In the Middle East western colonial influence which has tried to instate democratic values has lead the local population to become nationalistic and religiously extremist leading to the creation of numerous Islamic nations and terrorist organizations.
Or a third, concidering China already has so much influence in western economy by providing cheap goods and labor isn’t dangerous and risky to offend or anger them. What if they stop trade all together ? As a dictatorship China can whitstand a policy that hurts their people, the democratic west are more influenced by people’s comfort. Can such policies be sustained before a re-election happens?
@Kenny K Do you care to elaborate? All of my statements are supported by credible sources such as several government agencies US and European, trusted news organizations such as BBC, New York Times and the economist. As well as when it comes to human rights violation a lot of direct footage from labor camps and interviews from victims. I would say I have credible unbiased sources. Do you have more credible information? I would love to see what independent sourcess with no affiliation to the Chinese government you use to feel that the statements were incorrect.
The length of my comment is to show the background my opinions ground on and if I am incorrect that someone can point out where my train of thought takes a leap of faith rather than a logical next step. Something I would say is a positive rather than something to be used as an insult
@@scarykloky519 Chinese people stays with the Chinese government to deal with the external affairs.
@@yingzhang7637 if I understand you correctly China can interfere and interact with other countries but the west aren't allowed to do the same with China? Seems hypocritical.
Nothing you mentioned is facts. No tech is stolen.it was given as a deal. The main fact is science is not own by white ppl.
Shirley Yu has learned from the woof warrior "diplomacy" and really paints why Nathan is right.
wolf warrior diplomacy ? lol, you prefer black hawk down diploamcy? or long survivor diplomacy? how about rambo diplomacy?
Lol Shirley owned Nathan. He’s a cia asset that is hiding in amerixa after trying to destroy Hong Kong .
@@levelazn US is all about the "tears of the sun" diplomacy! But congrats you beat the US to the bottom for the worst silly action movies, "shooting you fully right in the meat place"
@@johnc1873 You mean Formally vibrant now declining police state Hong Kong that people are fleeing in droves along with Nathan.
@@johnc1873 Yeah she really showed him how much of Africa she owns with here wearing it all in pearls around here neck. This totally doesn't look like massive mainland corruption with the commie wearing pearls massive enough to choke a giant clam!!!
49:20 What happened to the audio? It's a bad look for you to censor your own guests when they're off script. You're supposed to be a free thought platform, but apparently, you're not. I'm unsubscribing.
He said the quiet bit out loud - he really only wants war
Let us debate the relationship between China and Harvard’s Kennedy School next time 🐸
Yeah let's chase and scare all the academics away, moronic take.
Lol she kept bringing that up too many times.
Hopefully in the presence of the FBI!
Harvard Kennedy vs Laundered yuan
Africa has incurred a debt Xi Jinping is fully aware of that can not be paid off and will possess these ports for years to come.
You mean just like how the European powers have done ?
@@pikachus5m166 equating europe's slavery to china's? lol are you stupid? let's not even talk about slavery ok? talk about what existed prior to china's alternative model. they are called TIED AID. go look it up. you take some donation from the west and you're locked into only being able to trade with that country. to explain to this generation of young people: it's like social media influencer using money to make money. like the pretty girls going on exotic vacation showing you the picture perfect lifestyle of the rich - SPEND some money to make MORE MONEY. except with the TIED AID, the recipient country is locked into a deal with a developed nation that 1. dump cheap goods into your country and renders your domestic market unable to compete 2. the other stuff you want to buy from them that they are not dumping cost too much that you can't afford. 3. meanwhile, you can't even trade with anyone else or other developing nations who might have cheaper products........
Actually, the truth is most people in liberal democracy would like to see China collapsed into chaos. They were very disappointed by the failure of the Tiananmen Square and Hong Kong riots in toppling the CCP. If CCP had not taken control of the situation, China would not remain as one country of 1.5B people. It would be broken into many warring pieces. The Western powers would be more than happy to come in to exert its power over China and to see history repeat itself: century of Chinese humiliation.
BTW, how did UK run Hong Kong as a colonial power? Was there democracy then?
Truth.
China deserves collapse into chaos for its Wuhan virus.
@@ericpeters2305 China's gift to the West in return for opium forced upon it by the British and the humiliation by the West for burning and looting its palace and occupying its land.
You do make a good point.
Um, it is way past that time.
we build chiantowns everywhere, its game over for you son
@@levelazn Go collect your 50 cents.
@@memeticist where do I collect it ?
@@levelazn Your CCP overlords.
@@levelazn the majority of Chinese people who live in West hate the CCP. It is only a matter of time before we get rid of the fringe collaborators like an exterminator getting rid of a termite infestation
Vince Cable. I'm just disappointed
Very disappointed indeed, perhaps, he is looking for work/invitation from the CCP?
46:00 Prevote results😁
😆
Don’t forget the post argument results 😃😃😃
👍
Lol
according to which definition is china committing genocide? and what is the evidence supporting those criteria?
Nathan Law is just not in the same league as the other panelists in knowledge, experience, and mastery of the English language.
I have nothing but respect for a person brave enough to lead protests against that horrendous regime
His mastery of the English language is probably better than yours
This should have been over in the opening speech
Please explain more?
This should have been over in the opening line
Shirley and Cable should never have been invited to give an opening speech…
Opening second
Very well presenting the real situation Nathan and Alan. It’s a choice between Universal Value and Economic Benefits. I’m glad to see the poll change before and after the debate!
Universal values like genocides, regime change, colour revolutions etc?
D. Leung.
Ur bull-shitting here.
Nathan is a spy for CCP.
We in the West are very careful about this guy.
He was born in mainland China.
Yellow perils can't be trusted.
For the West to be preaching "universal values" is like a thief preaching property rights. The West should go and figure what it means to have those values before imposing them on others.
@@christineyoung8345 indeed
Can't believe Shirley Yu as been given a platform! Have you heard what she says in Chinese?
Democracy allows both sides of the story. We are not living in CCP.
can't believe what a wacko, comment. This ideology of scilincing, of ''justice'' over freedom are the reason China can not be treated as a parthner.
Are you kidding look at the way this comment section is curated to support the CCP!!! Giving here a platform they are giving her a total pass to scream here CCP propaganda bull while wearing that 20 % Africa she claims china own in Pearl's around her neck!!!!
Why us this critical comment of the ccp censored on free and open youtube????
@@vanessali1365 Right. Try that in Hong Kong. Simply wearing a t-shirt with Hongkong logo can put you in jail. Forwarding a tweet can put you in jail. Having a tiny sticker inside your wallet which says HK Add Oil can put you in jail. Holding five fingers plus one can put you in jail. Singing a song of Hong Kong can put you in jail. Reporting human rights issues in Hong Kong can put you in Jail. TRY THESE!
Vince Cable, when asked specific questions on China's behaviour, was keen to tell the audience of the lovely chats he'd had with China but never once gave any concrete examples of anything he'd actually achieved in those talks.
Maybe the talks were confidential.. Politicians don't usually advertise what has been communicated agreed or disagreed between states.
@@dulcepericulum55 When something has been achieved through talks, politicians are generally very swift to communicate them. I'd point out that it's also a good 6 or 7 years (maybe longer) since Cable played any role in such talks.
@@dulcepericulum55 yea why would people need to know what’s happening in regards to their country. Don’t give the masses information or they might start asking questions.
In the UKVince made fraud easier by making it so easy register a company. Vince is a true CCP lover. Carn't believe he is a 'Sir' or was leader of the UK liberal party. He faces a lot of criticism for his pro CCP views. Vince says how grateful we should be to China. The UK has got a Electrical Vehicle industry because China... I think not. I was in a talk with him and he never heard of CCP's 14 grievances against Australia. He believes Taiwan belongs to China. He sounds more like Kishore every day. I wonder what he thinks of the Lithuania spate. Probably take the CCP side. EU to kowtow to China.
I just saw this debate ruclips.net/video/nEchkn3unl8/видео.html and Vince Cable has mentioned some of the outcomes of these talks. Remember if you haven't seen the evidence, it's best to scour the internet to see if your question has already been answered
Somebody is going to lose their social credit score!
Are you so ashamed of using your real White pic instead of using this pic and profile name?
@@thecomment9489 No. This is my real face. And even that, what are you going to do about it?
Ignorance at its best
plese can someone explain to me why is part od the debate muted?
Do you think this Nathen Law ever visited Xinjiang?
He do not need to. Information on human right abuse there is public
Nope, he's an armchair rhetorician. No actual real life experiences, credentials or anything valuable to contribute. Best ignore him!
Mr Nathan, for whatever purpose and objective, I find your facts and opinions are very selective and distorted, you seemed telling a very biased story. may god bless you and your mates
Naughty Panda, Taiwan must remain democratically FREE! And who might this Naughty Panda be? Why Beijing of course! Democracy, you see, is the best form of governance for Taiwan you must AGREE. Not everyone desires to live under your type of governance, your version of the hammer and sickle. Beijing, you Naughty Panda, let Taiwan be democratically FREE!
Honestly, can the guy with the broom be more proactive at poking Vince Cable awake?
Nathan Law is a total joke - makes me laugh every time he speaks.
And Shirley Yu talks like a total drunk. Makes everyone puke like every time she vomits out her CCP talking points
I like how Shirley refers China as a developing country lol
cuz it is?
@@levelazn Second largest economy in the world is a developing country? Give me a break. Go visit shanghai and see if it is a developing country.
@@leoagaw Shanghai is a developed city. But Xinjiang isn’t :)
@@levelazn Well, we have a lot of villages with no running water in Alaska. Why is US still considered "developed"?Double standard.
@@leoagaw us is developed because US dollar is the global reserve currency
"US daallars, ecaanamy, technaaalagy".....listening to Shirley the Poo is like listening to nails down a blackboard on loudspeaker.
Shirley Jinping
As an adversary!
👍💪
Enemy
This is a lopsided debate. It sounds more like a China bashing seminar with a lot of western media propaganda bandied about. Shirley Yu should be speaking for the motion or recuse herself from the debate. Her heart was not there to be against the motion. So in effect it is 3 persons for and 1 person against the motion. Even the chair person appears to lean more for the motion. This debate should have been better organised so that spectators can have a more balanced views. Why a knowledgeable person from China was not ask to debate against the motion?
What are you talking about? Miss Yu was passionate in her defense of China and against the motion. And her love for China was abundantly clear.
There was no sound starting at 49:25 and lasted for 20 seconds. Pls fix it.
That was all part of the censorship plan
He probably said "no no" words. I'm assuming he spoke about Taiwan or what the Chinese government is doing to the Muslims in a visceral manner. It's sad that they would self-censor. This pretty much sums up the debate.
First thing first, this Nathan lied about the so called concentration camp and genocide.
To whom may be interested in this topic, please just search the population of Uygur people and see if there is a genocide.
How come the population grew so much while there is a genocide!
The current population of Uygur people is 12 million! if there are 1.6 million ~ 3 million in concentration camp, it means almost every family has at least one family remember in the concentration camp.
IF IT IS TRUE, do you think the Uygur people still stay calm till now?
It will be like Ukraine or any chaotic area!
No matter where did you get the news, please don't believe it blindly, do some search and think, you will see it is not logical and reasonable.
"the reason we disengaged from China and huawei and 5g has nothing to do with national security... it's because we were told by the americans that we had to." !!! 👏👏👏
Same happened in the other five eyes. The ones who suffered are none other than the people, who are clearly not on top of the governments' priorities. What a farce. 😑
those countries made the decision to ban Huawei m on their own. They’re not Chinese condumbs like North Korea. Use and tossed for 70+ years
@@rmarsden5610 a 2 month old anti-China troll account.. Billions of CIA budget to spread freedom (fake news) and democracy (violent destablization). Fooling turkeys in the west to celebrate Thanksgiving and worship the slaughterer.
We don't have to be adversary and we don't have to be partner . Let's clam down and live our own life .
Jimmy Carter said in 2019 : " The U.S. has only enjoyed 16 years of peace in its 242 - year history ,
making the country the most warlike nation in the history of the world . This is because of America's
tendency to force other nations to adopt our American principles." The American principles / Democracy
system is decaying after two centuries of operations and need a wise man to fix it .
England and the US acting like they have the high ground when it comes to human rights is pretty hilarious
Compared to China? Uh, yeah, the U.S., England, and the West in general definitely have the high ground on human rights.
@@mattturner5429 No, they don't. England had colonies just a few decades ago. The US has the highest incarceration rate in the world in both absolute and relative numbers. They also let 1 million people die of covid when China and other countries like Australia, Vietnam and South Korea have shown that most of these deaths could've been avoided. Everything the US accuses China of doing, they also do: concentration camps, political prisons, mass surveilance... Again, how many countries has China bombed, invaded or couped the last 20 years?
Colonialism is still British biggest achievement and they will never let it go..... Someone already said in comments, there is no intelligence in this debate , couldn't agree more !
At 49:15 the sound has problems. Can it be fixed?
He probably said "no no" words. I'm assuming he spoke about Taiwan or what the Chinese government is doing to the Muslims in a visceral manner. It's sad that they would self-censor. This pretty much sums up the debate.
Yu is full of wolf warrior spirit, although heavily accented and hard to convey idea, yet she made it up with top-of-lung shouting as if volume can substitute logic in content.
It's funny that warmongers who killed millions call others warwolves who didn't kill anyone in the last 30 years.
Where does Nathan get his 3 million Uighurs being locked up from? Even the 1 million that the WUC made up has already been debunked.
Also wearing Enough pearls to pay down that 20% of Africa she claimed china owned, pretty rich on a communist with every inch of pun intended!
@@sword7872You clearly dont get the joke, wolf warrior doesn't mean war monger, it means blow hard! Also the CCP has killed more people in the past 50 years then Hitler, Stalin and the last 250 years of US history combined. At least when the US invades a country they have the integrity to take critizism unlike the corrupt commie party CCP claiming this country or that island sense ancient times cause some asinine ancient Chinese mythology from a long defunct dynasty with no connection of lineage to the current corrupt commie pooches. You just dont get what a joke china is.
@@Coumei2009La Mao??? Read a history book the ccp (corrupt criminal poochies) has killed more people I last 50 years then 250 of us history plus Hitler and stalin combined!
The Chinese participant said China should have an election thinking he had nailed it. He would get a shock at the result.
all elections are controlled by one person.
Yes, thank you!
Same sentiments here
Big thanks to the audience!
👍👍👍👍
If Jan 6 was bad, Hong Kong protest was so much worst -.-
China doesn't care whether you treat it as an adversary or a partner.
But if you treat China as an adversary, then China will also treat you as an adversary. it's as simple as that.
China treats everyone as adversary
@@acidbot6692 Yes, yes you can talk, but you do not have evidence.
@@acidbot6692 in your dream
the PRC is an adversary to all even to Asians
@@jonkoh6149 Do you mean like the UK with Ireland, Franch, The US with Canada, Mexico and Cuba? If you say so, I agree with you, that is how the P5 was doing. Sorry welcome to the cruel real world.
The 'Yeas' won easily.
Should UK treat China as partner? A non-compliance of “Sino-British joint declaration” by China says it all.
@Plain Truth make sure you are Hong Konger, I bet you arn't
@Plain Truth ah right. So you might as well go back to bilibili instead of youtube which is a western platform if you think UK is "fake democracy" or prior "colonial master". Don't let US or UK brainwash you man! It won't get you too far anyway when all developed countries making their point by boycotting winter olympic for human right issues lol
@Plain Truth as if china never give average citizen right to vote for Xi the "president" LMAO study your "current and the past" before stating fact
@Plain Truth can average citizen vote their "president" in china? Just reply with Yes or No. Bored with you circling around this and that to be honest
And the fact is indeed theres no one system in the world, as if you have good system and bad system to counter the force between.
Turns out democracy has been adopted in various countries, been running well on average in the last few decades and only china have "communism with chinese characteristics" lol One shall decide good or bad system they are on!
@Plain Truth 你亞洲時間早上回我訊息， 裝老外也做得似樣點吧？ 五毛培訓時領導沒教麼？
反正老子沒事做跟你慢慢玩， 反正你收到的五毛錢在外國是用來掉人的
The pre-debate counts should not be revealed during the debate. They could bias people's decisions.
Yeah that’s pretty much primming
It wouldn’t have mattered. The adversary side would have still won anyway
We are all bias
What bias?
Act of genocide?
Where are the bodies?
4 four of them, the most unprofessional is Nathan law......
The moderator was too smiley and cringe-jokey. I would suggest she not do that when there's a serious discussion being had as it undermines the whole purpose.
This question is very simple, because China has become stronger and has become a threat to Western countries, and has naturally changed from a partner to an opponent. None of these matters, because while the Western countries are still talking, China is still quietly developing and getting better, and he doesn't care what you say.
Dog meat mcdonalds soon?
@@Myanmartiger921 how about suggesting beef burger to hindu?
👍
But Western is not just talking Western is doing by sanctioning and outsourcing from Chinese
@@yzy8638 beef burger to Hindu is like regular meat to normal Chinese
Time will tell everything
In time ccp is dead
@@roflam7847, you are exhausted
The view of Cable is like give in to China because you can't avoid it.....He is so appeasing and defeatist that is why perhaps the UK now looks so defeated in many aspects in the global stage. China cannot be trusted and you will be a fool to trust China. The other pro view of Yu says make China a global leader so it can behave like a global leader.....this logic is the second most ridiculous (after Cable's) in this debate.
He will never say this about black or Muslim minority in uk
Why does the audio cut when he is speaking specifically about the CCP. There is a trend on RUclips for any criticism of the CCP to be censored, perhaps intelligence squared would like to comment on what happened there? Perhaps you were told that in order for the video to be monetised criticism of the CCP needed to be censored?
Lots of lie about the Xinjiang genicide
China is a world power for good, although with a different political philosophy. Historical, China has a better human rights record than both the UK and the USA.
Tell that to the Tibetans, Shans, Uighurs, etc.
@@aroopgohainbaruah5216 tell that to the innoent Asian, Muslim, black peoples and other minority races that the racist westernes are still kiiling and bullying them non stop now! If you haven't been to China, don't talk your brainwased trash.I am not from China but we all know that is a cruel accusation to bring down China!
A great debate … thanks for organizing it! I fully agree that we should take a tougher stance towards China due to the track record of the CCP regime. No mutual respect and standards on human rights no talks!
Strong action should be taken against the UK for all its crimes against humanity for many centuries and even ongoing today.
@@thecomment9489 Sure, like it's internment camps and ethnic eradication efforts... Oh wait, that's not present in the UK anymore.
@@dexterdextrow7248 UK was part of nato forces involved in destruction of afghanistan. and declare hindi as official language in the commonwealth of british colonies.
@@thecomment9489 what you mentioned has no relation to internment camps or ethnic eradication.
Declaring a language as "official" is far from trying to exterminate all competing or surrounding languages.
As to whether NATO forces "destroyed Afghanistan" is a subjective evaluation and wether it would have been all fine and good if intervention did not take place is just alternate history. On top of this the actual intention of the war in Afghanistan was not malicious in intent, it was an attempt to suppress terrorism, independent of wether or not it was ultimately successful.
@@dexterdextrow7248 how? the white settlers ethnically cleansed natives from america, canada, australia. and britishers are trying to suppres other languages, cultures etc. and being part of nato forces responsible for destabilising afghans country it is moral responsibility of British people to settle at least 3 million Afghans in uk.
Each home has beautiful art, fashionable furnitures … each home also has toilets and garbage … We don’t go to other’s home only to see the toilets or smell garbage. A nation of class, it’s representatives also shall display grace that to go to other people’s home to see more of what they do the best the beautiful thus learn from each other. This makes a good and respectable neighbor.
Ohh please. Why don't you ask US government to cut down 1% carbon emission first.
It may be better arguments if we put some comparisons of what Alan/Nathan were commenting. Best comparisons are between the world's two super power. Compare in details about human rights, genocide issues, promotion of world peace, how the nation is liked by its citizens, how racial discrimination is promoted..... Use facts and data to support their points rather than just lip service and claim what they said were facts. As far as boycotts are concerned, compare how the two nations behaved. Why could one boycotted anyone they liked, but in return not allowing another one to do exactly the same? There were too many double standards presented by the adversary side, and I believe it is all political in their mins rather than fair points of views to lead the audience to look at the real pictures. They talked about Xinjiang genocide a few times. Why not showed some facts but just dry talk, when people in that province are living happily, with more population and higher standard of living. About national securities why not mentioned about Snowden's evidence but claimed something without proof. However we understand cyber securities are serious issues and the whole world is doing it! Why just accusing China but not even mentioning about all the known facts...... It's all DOUBLE STANDARDS!
Sleepy Joe has waken up but now we have Sleepy Cable.
You sound like an Idt...starting your sentence with, "sleepy Joe"
SMH
@@misspm8157 You sound like a c**t. Thanks.
The host cannot be anymore charming and professional.
And obsessed with helping the anti-China side.
she still won't go out with him
The young lady is not competent to chair a meeting. She asks:- "How can China be held accountable in future?" Does she not realize that it has never been conclusively proven that China was responsible for Covid19?
What is she? An implanted overseas agent of her nation? Honestly, I don't find her yelling voice comfortable to hear! Oh dear, she was bluffing how great her home country's economy had been in the most recent past. But it was the past. I hope she could agrue against the motion from a much wider perspective. Money is not everything!
A typical Chinese patriot who loves their country so much they leave it
Now, I think this is what you call a clear case
A clear case because the Shirley and Vincent are both 🥜 cases
Very clear case indeed
Bad case of delusion
Agreed
Julian Assange’s case demonstrated how serious you consider “universal values”. Country A can ask country B to arrest a journalist from country C who reported truth of country A. A is America, or could be China; B is UK, or could be Cambodia; Assange can be any of you.
This is EXACTLY what nathan lawless advocates for
Quite!!!
Assange is just a condumb for the Chinese and Russians. Use and toss
Can you create an enemy of someone who has done you nothing?
What do you mean China has done nothing to the west? China has been at war with the west for decades
Keep on debating CPC human rights for next decade. While CPC executing next 5 and 10 year plans.
I only support one thing-stop the wars and help the society.
Stop Xi to stop the wars
It's biased right from the get go. The hostess failed to tell everyone that the us carbon emissions are far ahead of China per Capita.
You’re right it’s biased. China has no free speech so Shirley and Vince should have been deplatformed in the first place
As a Chinese, I remember participating in an American college debate tournament, the motion is somewhat like this one. What I found frustrating is that the other team just kept tossing out fake information about China (as a student that lived in China and went to western universities, trust me I know it was fake information), and tried to use it as "facts" to base their arguments on. That put me in a dilemma, if I debated those "facts", then I lose the focus of the debate, but if I don't, it would put me in a big disadvantage, cuz it's hard to argue when they already framed China as a country it is not. I guess the opp team in this debate also faced a similar situation.
I thought the for team was weak straight off the bat, they were in over their heads as far as their competition was concerned, one was a young activist, you know he's followed every anti China narrative created, the other I think it's his job to peddle this rhetoric given those who sponsor the organisation he works, and his reference to tanks and Tiananman square, even the Tibet issue, more ground could have been made in my opinion citing the situation and American interference, the western world would see Tibet under monastic rule more of a human rights violation than modern day Tibet, there's no doubt there's problems in China, but anti China organisations with conflicts of interest have made mountains out of molehills, and lies (let alone exaggerations) told often enough becomes truth
@@myresponsesarelimited7895 I remember responding to the other team by saying "the biggest problem with the Opp team's case is that all of their arguments are based on 'facts' that are debatable".
What you said is so true!
@Jason DamenHi, troll
@@myresponsesarelimited7895 improve english first, comma splicing 中國人寫英文的通病， 五毛別裝逼用洋鬼子名稱
49:20 why was this censored??
What a pity ... to hear a Chinese condemn China with such passion! Ever heard of an American or a British condemning their mother lands? NO NEVER! The US and Great Britain are obviously perfect countries!