Thanks for watching! You can find Cozy's episode here: ruclips.net/video/D8lFkRLYaVE/видео.html And I'd love if you joined our wonderful Twitch community! twitch.tv/alexandercoccia Thanks to you and all of the support we are now ranked in the top 5 gaming podcast across streaming platforms! We are now live in all podcast audio formats: Apple Podcasts: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-snap-chat-marvel-snap-podcast/id1657904561 Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/6WQZxXEe3jyeqiXBVzD9HA Google Podcast: podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5idXp6c3Byb3V0LmNvbS8yMDkxMTQ1LnJzcw Thank you for your support!!
Let me know what u think about this wishlist: 1. Animated/3d avatars 2. $2/$5/$10 cosmetics- avatars, card backs, frame effects bundles with some tokens, credits, gold 3. More responses and emojis to choose from 4. Obviously friend-play is coming, I just want it so… 5. More modes more modes more modes! 6. Card variant trade w friends option 7. Larger soundtrack to loop/ original music per specific stages 8. Accompanying app tracker for ure cards/ win rates/ tier/ rankings etc and friend finder/ purchase history 9. New modes w clear progress counters equal to season pass/ infinite/ missions/ collect level etc 10. More effects and more card split options 11. Avatar evolution and split potential 12. On accompanying app also have card usage percentages and win rates/ all lists of cards/variants/effects/avatars/bundles etc (available and not available) 13. MORE SNAPCHAT EPISODES FROM ALEX AND COZY!!!
Just a heads up, if Leader gets played on turn 5 and then then opponent throws down Odin on turn 6 you get Leader'd again. Unfortunately I know this from experience when someone played Wave, then next turn Leader, then final turn Odin. It was brutal.
You are absolutely correct about the bundles. I'm a fairly new player, started in November. For December I gave myself a gift and bought the Season Pass and am glad I did. Then, I saw the bundles and I just laughed. The prices made absolutely no sense and it actually concerned me that the company was appearing to be incredibly greedy. I hope they are listening because though I'm enjoying the game I may drop back to free to play if they keep doing things like this. I like supporting supportive companies, not greedy ones.
Agreed. When I saw the $30 price tag for what you get, it just doesn’t seem worth it. $10 might be more favorable for people to want to invest their money. They should have also given people a chance to use gold to get it
The monetization is literally offputting to be honest, gold is only used for Daily Missions, credit income rate is too slow, tokens are almost un-obtainable. They ruined a great game in 3 weeks after it’s release honestly
You guys are such a good duo! You're both natural entertainers- the quick humour and jibes are brilliant. Alex's disgust at Cozy describing Leech caught me off guard - I was bagging up my groceries whilst listening and started laughing to myself like a crazy person. Keep up the great work
The bundles aren’t what bothers me personally, I play gacha games and they are similar to that. However the need for more ways to acquire resources is the main issue right now. This problem is what makes the bundles a problem because you feel the need to buy it to have a good shot at account progression
You could argue that the introduction of the Tokens do bring some kind of a pay to win thing into the game. Because if you have tokens, you can get better cards that you might need for better deck. And they now do sell tokens in expensive bundles. So I would not be able to completely deny it, if someone argues that there are pay to win elements in the game.
I could get behind that arguement, if you could straight up buy tokens with money. But you really can't, you can buy 1 bundle with not enough tokens for a pool 5 card and you can even get that as a free to play player. If you're a F2P player that religiously saves your gold, you will have exactly as many tokens as the whaliest whale out there.
You still can buy token to get cards .. that’s literally the definition of P2W .. lets stop kidding ourselves.. the match making also makes you hit a wall at some point where it establishes a invisible rating and pins you against increasingly higher rated opponents that have better cards just to push you to pay to maybe get the cards that are owning you
All card games have some inherent P2W elements. The most F2P friendly card game out there is definitely Legends of Runeterra where it’s extremely easy for everyone, including F2P to get every card in the game. The main monetization in that game comes from cosmetics like skins/boards/pets/emotes. You can save up currency to craft every card you need when a new expansion drops.
Love that these episodes are getting longer and longer! Also agree that the bundles are way too expensive, I want more bundles like the Captain America bundle!
I just want to say "THANK YOU" for touching on the subject of bundle prices, as other RUclipsrs were openly hostile when people were saying that the game is predatory in its pricing and accusing people of wanting everything for free. I want to get Gambit for my Wong deck, but I can't spend 38€ on it, and the fact that a Series 1 player can unlock him (and all the upcoming cards) with his wallet is worrying. Hopefully Second Dinner will listen to you more than us posting on their discord server.
greedy devs.. setting the price so high for just 2 cards + 1.5k credits. I will not buy such an overprice IAP. Will continue to vote with my wallet until prices go down further, else give more in the bundles / season pass. Stop being so stingy.
@@david_lifeandgames its not greed, they are trying to find a business model that works for their game, but I agree everyone should vote with their wallet and send them the message this isn't it.
I agree about the bundles. The price tag aside, I can still stomach it if it doesn't have a time limit; I can slowly save up in game or in real life to get the variant that I really want. The time limit is borderline predatory to me.
I saw the Gambit and Rogue bundle when it was $19.99, and I was hedging because I am also a huge Gambit and Rogue fan as a kid. They were my power Xmen couple But when it went up $10, I couldn't get there anymore. $10-15 I may have been more interested.
Its funny to me hearing you talk about pricing when I live in germany where everything is even more expensive. The Gambit bundle is 37€ which is 53CAD, Season pass is 11€ which is 16CAD. The apocalypse bundle is 7500, which 8000 gold are 110€ which is obviously 160CAD. Very very dissapointed in the monetasation as someone who is fearly new to the game.
I think mbaku could be pretty alright if they added something similar to Chavez, but instead of drawing last you just don’t draw him. Make him a 0 cost 2 power and that always jumps out of your deck, and thins your deck to allow better draw.
Honestly I think a huge improvement to the bundles that would (partially) justify the price tag is that when you get variants it also unlocks the main card so you dont get it in your collection track. That way players who dont have the cards dont have to worry about buying the variants and then it still take a card pull slot
It how it already works. I get the card if you get the variant. Not the Base card but the usual. Probably the bundles should give Boosters for the specific cards or more credits. Even if they have a gold price would be ok
@@EligorArgentum you get the card to use but it's not removed from your pool. So if you bought the pack you can use Gambit but if you never pulled him from collection track you still need to in order to get all pool 3 cards
I think the real problem with move decks is that they get crippled by not enough board space and locations that stop them from moving. If you planning to move a card on 5 but they play storm you’re screwed. If locations like mini lab or Fisk tower show up, you’re screwed. And with multiple man in particular, you quickly run out of space to make him good. The best change I could think of to improve them is allow you to choose which way you want to go on cards like iron fist and hiemdall. This probably won’t happen because they’d have to add player interaction after a playing a card, but I think it would make the decks feel a lot better. You could punch a multiple man from the middle to the right, use cloak to move both copies to the left lane. And the hiemdall everything right and get 3 more copies. Or if they play storm on the right lane, hiemdall could actually be a useful counter because you could move everything into it. It would just allow you to be more flexible and give you options
Ngl, that Leech variant looks like the Mask on Meth 🤣 also I think adding collector tokens to the bundle and making it purchasable with gold or cash would be a great way to make it more F2p friendly, also imagine if they let you pin a deal? That would be cool too!
I'm really glad you guys talk about the high prices of these bundles but I'm afraid Second Dinner won't change these prices. Community helped them get the best mobile game award and they couldn't even give 1000 Tokens, they gave us 1000 Credits instead. I don't expect them to change their strategy, especially since people are buying whatever they throw in there. I wanted to support them because of how great the game is, but I'm not buying anything else other than the Season Pass anymore. I used to get some gold here and there, but that's over now. Another great show, I love watching you guys, keep it up! :D
the bundle prices need to be good for everybody. A big timer for the high priced bundles and maybe a money and gold price to them so that people that play can save up and just get it for free. Also the money price needs to be lower i would not say ALOT but lower. Hearts Wild i would gladly give 20 bucks for the hearts bundle. The Cyber Holiday bundle is almost 120 euro for me so that is WAY to high. I get you get alot back but a bundle of 120 is just stupid. Either make smaller bundles or make them both money priced (cheaper) and gold price (current). If you want everybody buying the stuff you need to think off the playerbase in a whole not just one part of it. Just so you know i am no WHALE and i could still say yes to buying every bundle but i would rather see they made the changes to them. They need to stop going gacha style pricing because if they do they gonna be bleeding players and after a while be a shell of what they could have been. This is a card game give everybody a fair price and you will see them buying it even if it is just to support. I would gladly buy bundles for cards i do NOT play if the price is fair. But hey that is jsut me this is my opinion on the bundle stuff i love the game and will play it just not buy a bundle unless i see a price that is fair.
Love the bundles chat. It was very good. I first said that I was going to be F2P but after hearing you guys talk about supporting the game. I will currently only buy the field passes. Support the game with what you can.
I would not spend more than $5 for the Hearts Wild bundle. More than that for two card skins and a couple cropped avatars from those skins feels obscene to me.
Up front, I have not purchased this bundle. Looking at the math (in USD): 1500 boosters is 1200 gold 2 variants is 1400 gold minimum (700 each) looking at what it costs to buy that in the shop. 1200 gold is $19.96; each variant would be $9.99 So individually, the cards and the credits alone cost $39.94 if bought individually So overall, it appears to be a deal. Now that said, I have not purchased this bundle. Even though Rogue and Gambit were my most favorite characters in the 90s series, I have not hit purchase and am not sure I am going to. Like Alex said. That same amount of money is God of War on Steam, or for $5 more I can get the Spider-Man remaster on Steam. I liked the idea of maybe rotating more often through something more like welcome bundles. Either way I am looking forward to what the SD team comes up with in the future.
As for the bundles, there has to be a lower price point where they make more money. Like say 5% of players buy the Hearts Wild bundle at $30. I bet at $10 it’s more like 20% buy it. So it’s a net gain of 33% more money coming in. And it’s not like these cost them on an individual basis like it’s a tangible good. If they sell 1 or 100 the amount of extra cost to them is negligible.
I bought when it was at 20$ on steam and I still thought it was too much. But I knew they were gonna fix it quick and I wanted to at least send the message that myself and probably others would buy these at cheaper prices where I know they can still make money from, instead of the aggressive 30$ one they were pushing.
I think the reason they didn't put Collector Tokens in the Hearts Wild bundle is because if you are below Collection Level 500, then any bundles that include Collection Tokens do not appear in your shop, and they want that bundle to appear to the entire player-base. I only recently started playing and am in the CL 400s, and so my shop doesn't have the Apocalypse bundle. It sucks because I might want to use my stored-up gold on a big bundle like Apocalypse but I am not allowed to, but it also makes sense because players before CL 500 have no way of using the Collection Token currency which is the reason the bundle doesn't show up for them. But this creates the problem that any bundle they create that has Collector Tokens is inevitably not going to be seen by lower level players, so the devs are incentivized to NOT put Collector Tokens in bundles.
I understand that the company needs to make money, but if they come off as exploratory and exclusionary it drives players away. Look at successful games like clash royale or brawlstars, they will usually have cheap offers or passes at a great value (generally 14X). If every deal that comes out is 30-40+ it will alienate players that are not willing to spend that much on a single mobile purchase.
I agree with the bundle issues. Personally what alex said about being “comfortable” enough to buy this is spot on. Everyone has that hmmm okay i can get this feeling and with these bundles it’s immediately “whoa, no” what games screw up on is they expect a large number of people to buy the expensive bundles.. but if they sell good quality bundles for $10-15 rather than some big one for $100 i guarantee you’ll get triple the amount of people buying that rather than the few that can afford to buy the expensive one. (As an example) Which grows the game in more ways than monetary.
I really appreciate that you guys have talked about this bundle, I knew it wasn’t worth it but wish they switched out the credits with tokens. This game has so many good things going for it so I wasn’t mad that they made this small mistake. That’s all it is just a small mistake by second dinner. I really hope they continue to make this game affordable while also be able to make enough money to keep the game up for years!
I bought the Hearts Wild bundle myself and I’ll acknowledge that the prices are quite egregious, but I’m also personally happy with supporting the game on top of my love for the X-Men. Without said, I think if they priced things better. They’d actually end up making MORE money. Overpricing things will just deter consumers from actually supporting them financially.
The bundle prices feel like software licenses to companies in tech. The prices are stupid high but companies NEED them so they have no option but to pay. No individual would ever have the money to overpay like that. In marvel snap it feels like this pricing is aimed towards the content creators, who need the cards to make content, but then can turn that content into money to pay for the bundles. I've been playing this game for a few months and I've seen multiple bundles that cost over 100e. In fact, they rarely put up bundles that I would consider worth it for me (bundles with lots of credits to advance my collection) for under 100e! I like some of the variants too so that I don't feel bad buying them with the gold that I've gained by playing the game but I would never ever buy gold with real money since it is so ridiculously expensive. Like I've said before in some other comment sections, I will purely be staying with the battle pass as it feels like the only thing worth the damn money I paid for it.
Brother reccomended the game to me with super high praises, and I'm really... really not a superhero kinda guy. But I've really been enjoying the game, and it was a shock to see a bundle at $40 starting and I wasn't even sure if it'd unlock the cards for me
15:15 It's a hard balance to strike, but erring on the side of affordability means that it's more affordable for everyone, which means everyone can play more and to a more comprehensive degree. That sounds a little idealistic, but if you tell your friend that the animated series bundle is $8, that sounds good, but if you tell them $40, that's a big, BIG difference. Yes, F2P means that it needs to be monetized outside of initial cost to fund expansions, new cards, etc. but I feel this pricing comes (not from a greed perspective), but a bit of a scarcity mindset. Which is totally bizarre because they should be operating from an abundance mindset, everyone loves them, they shouldn't be afraid of making the microtransactions more accessible to get more people in the door and as a byproduct make more money (or at least the same average of $/person). The other side of this is (I'm the lead game dev on an alpha card game, this is how I know this): Good, game appropriate art can be INSANELY expensive and is almost hands down the most expensive part of any game, so ROI numbers need to get met, but I can't imagine that 2 people feeling bad about their purchase (referring to the bundle from the video) is somehow better than 5 people loving their purchase. It's all about what you guys discussed, "what is the value of the product?" And the value of in-game goods is rarely, well, good.
Wanted to comment on the first part of the vid about the monetization in SNAP atm while its still fresh in my head. I completely agree that $30 USD (which usually means outside the US its even more expenesive) for the Gambit/Rogue bubdle is excessive to say the least and is pretty much insanely bad in terms of overall value. However I think its clear that SD is trying to find what price points both work and are fair so these initial bundles (at least the ones without $ price tages) are strictly cosmetic based so imo at least it doesnt create a p2w situation. Even the Apocalypse bundle, though still expensive and actually has items that are needed to progress your account, is priced in gold so even f2p players can save up and snipe a couple future bundles if they so choose (and lower/budget spenders can offset the cost of bundles with free gold like I personally plan to do going forward). I also think making exclusive variants the main path for a games monetization is the fairest method since its purely cosmetic and has zero affect on gameplay. Also imo no one should expect to get everything in any game that they don't pay for and again cosmetics are always the best monetization method but $30 is still quite excessive for what the hearts wild bundle gives you I'm still giving the devs the benefit if the doubt and am keeping my faith that they'll work out the current kinks and other growing pains as more data comes in and the direction of the game unfolds. Personally there are key pieces of information and necessary adjustments to the games economy that we, the players, need such as the rate new series 5 cards get reduced and adding additional methods for obtaining tokens (one idea I had is being able to convert any free variant you get, but don't want, into like 400 or 500 tokens but it has to be a free variants only, not a shop variants, as it would become p2w as whales could clear the variant shop out and convert those into more tokens). Anyways as usual I've rambled on long enough (and most likely too much). Again love SNAPchat and it's still my favorite SNAP content which ive come to look forward to each and every week. Ive been tuning into twitch to watch Alex and will do the same for Cozy whenever you get some time to stream (ofc with a new baby its 100% understandable that you'd be insanely busy) and until then I'll finish watching Alex's portion of SNAPchat
im having a lot of success with differant control lists. right now i play the daredevil one with prof x, hobgoblin gamora. attuma for the combo with prof x and because i play armor also. then a cosmo for good sake, a green goblin. the rest is filled with standalone good cards: iceman, lizard, maximus, destroyer. my other control list had green goblin, goose, armor, cosmo, shang chi, enchantress, killmonger... and works very well too.
@@nox6497 Thanks, yeah i bought him mostly for my zero list where i just added him and armor. because i wanna protect my red skull / thypoid mary etc. anyway so might as well throw him in the armor lane. and standalone in a lane hes better than mary because he has no drawback ^^
Leader does not need to be fixed... if you can't muster more than a 4 power difference by the end of the 5th turn to prevent that lane from flipping, you deserve to lose. Does it feel great to have a turn 6 clutch? Sure. But there needs to be a way to counter such a clutch. Leader does that. But he isnt even perfect because cards like Angela, Bishop or some Ongoing cards can absolutely make up additional power through synergies that a person playing Leader on turn 6 probably wont have. Leader is not full proof. Its mainly meant for turn 6 big power drops like Infinaut or Hulk or Chavez or Devil Dino. Its not an automatic win condition. I see no reason for it to be nerfed. I personally have had it backfire maybe 45% of the time if not 50%. Even if you play Leech before Leader and increase your chances, if you dont have the space for the cards that need copied, you are screwed. And the opponent has 5 turns to put down cards to help them win.
I agree Marvel SNAP needs to be monetized and I think there is a good balance for that. I trust they will figure it out, they have good will with their community right now based on previous actions. Personally, I don’t mind spending $10-$20, on occasion, when something really connects with me (looking at you Spider-Man/Sandman bundle). But, I also know I’m only willing to consider spending lower amounts. High dollar amounts have no chance with me. The only way these prices get lower is if their high-cost offerings continually fall below their sales benchmarks. The higher the dollar amount the greater potential for buyers remorse. So, I do think they need to consider what they offer for sale because that will ultimately influence the SNAP brand, how people perceive it and if they want to stick around. Seems like a tricky balance. Thanks!
Back in the 90's my cousin and I would fight as X-men on our trampoline. I would pick Gambit every time he picked Wolverine, because I would just kinetic charge wolverines skeleton every time he clawed me. The only way I could beat Wolverine back then (not even sure if it works like that, but it did for us)... yeah.... I bought the pack.
I got the Cyber, but not the Hearts. The only temptation of Hearts bundle was acquiring heroes that you haven't pulled yet (Gambit for me). Tokens, Credits, plus variants (cool ones only) are my only considerations when evaluating a purchase there.
Easy fix for Leader is the same fix they gave for Magik, I know you guys don't like it but giving him the old Ebony Maw/Magik turn time restriction of 'must be played before turn 6' neuters him a lot.
They need to polish the avatars, give them animations (even particle fx), or give them custom emotes like Hero’s have in Hearthstone (right now it’s a real downer opening avatars in caches)
Hello Mr. Coccia, my teen girls, who play supervised have a request. This was their question "Hi, you were discussing the ability types, can you maybe do a video on ones that have no abilities. They seem to be a huge disadvantage to play at all. What can they do to fix that?" Thank you. I maybe a topic both of you can discuss. Continued success-Mrs. King
Hi there! The card that they are looking for is PATRIOT! Patriot gives the cards with no abilities +2 power, and can be combo'd with Mystique to make it a +4!
@@AlexanderCoccia I told them, they said thank you, but to them, without that card not much value in those cards. Maybe they have something planned for them in the future. Happy Holidays and appreciated the reply.
I used a Leader deck almost exclusively last month and I don’t understand what the problem is now. You have to use every turn previous to turn 6 to make sure you are winning one location and down less that 4 at the location you play him. That might sound easy but with all the insane turn 6 shenanigans that happen now, he’s not all that amazing. He doesn’t work against well played Dino decks. He doesn’t work against Destroyer decks. He doesn’t work against crazy Wong combos. He doesn’t work against cerebro decks. The only thing he really works against is big turn 6 one card plays that don’t rely on previously set up synergies. Granted I am lacking some key cards that might change that up, but I just don’t see how people are up in arms so much with Leader.
leader copying the boosted cards if you dont have initiative is whats most frustrating thing about him. so sometimes it doesn't even matter if the leader play is behind.
I personally got the gambit rogue bundle just to get pool 3 cards I hadn't pulled yet. I think the main problem is variants are valued too high by the devs. If variants were cheaper the bundles would be too. I don't know why companies do this. Gaming is one of the largest industries the world. Quantity of transactions is more profitable imo.
This, the devs clearly overvalue Variant cards just by judging the prices in the shop, 700 gold for a Pixel variant? Who the fuck is every going to buy that? 1200 gold for a 'super rare' variant...which is over 10 bucks for a Jpeg (it's NFTs basically), it's obvious that not a lot of people are buying variants, meanwhile like 2 bucks for a basic variant and 4 for a super rare is more likely to get people to buy.
Talk about conversions? Here in Brazil it cost, 160, for Gambit and Rogue, and 500 to get Apocalypse bundle. Sad! I already buy the premium every month, 50, or 69,9 to get 10 levels open. It's hard, but we manage at some point, but the bundles... this is too high
the biggest problem with the pricing and packs imo is that most people really just wanna spend below 20 and they seem to be allergic to that and that the variants dont come with the cards they go with or at the very least tokens for the shop that already are sparce to begin with. I understand they dont want to make it pay to win and turn the shop into "buy your cards here, dont play the game" but there has to be some kind of middle ground they can find if they want to push into that $30+ range
Failing to consider that most players may not have Gambit or Rogue yet in their collection. Hearts Wild bundle allows those players to gain access to these cards, include them in decks, and participate in the Hero event.
Yeah I bought it because I didn’t have rogue yet and there’s nothing wrong with that but just know you can still pull the original variant in caches and reserves if you do.
I do not have either in my collection, and they are both excellent cards with good art, but the price is still too damn high. If it was $5, it'd be an instant buy; at $30, I won't even consider it. There is a huge gap there. I also think there is also a little bit of predation on the newer users that don't realize that until level 1,000, you will be pulling a LOT of Pool 3 cards, which very well may have one or both of these cards.
I also bought it because I didn't have Rogue... Second to next card I unlocked after was Rogue... Punished but at the end of the day I'm down to support a free game I love
so pretty much each card is 19.99 cdn each, all other stuff aside that is the way i am looking at it. the problem now is that if they reduce the cost per card in the bundle then early adopters of buying are gonna feel hosed. they should of not done a "lets see how high we can make it approach", that is hard to back track now.
They should make daily logins for credits and gold for ftp the most bundles should go for is 15 dollars regular bundles should be 10$ and it would be nice while having more bundles for the player who wants it to choose from and there favorite hero’s
Alex is spot on with his Leader Suggestion, restrict his play to turn 1-5 only. If you try to make is so he can't be played on turn 6, Leader users will just use Magik with Leader and nuke players on turn 7.
Leader's counter is, obviously, Leech. But generally speaking it's lateral power cards. Lateral cards being those that improve other cards in play. Their own power is by and large not relevant as Leader will make it a net zero gain on location.
i live in Dubai.UAE and the pro bundle is literally 369.99 AED, that is so expensive to the fact that i could literally go have a night out, go to a fancy restaurant + go to the cinema + buy some clothing or a new pair of boots. and ill still be under 369.99 AED, so like??? what are u doing devs?
I will say that I have been on both sides of leader. I have played him to win games I had no business winning, and I have lost games I should have won. However, I remember my first few matches playing leader were BAD. I practically gave my opponents the win. I had to learn to set up the board and I kinda play my deck around Leader.
Alex I’ve been saying this about leader for a while what hurts isn’t the copy it’s the fact that it knullifies your whole turn 6 power push. I think it should be a 5-4 and can’t be played on turn 6.
I play Magic the Gathering very regularly and told my friends about snap and their responses were unanimously: Progression through lootboxes and the first things I see are multiple currencies and 120€ bundles. they didn't give the game a chance, but I get where they're coming from
Same here, they all see the paywall as being predatory like gacha games and I can't really argue against that. They're really missing the mark on the issues with currency and overpricing their variants.
Except you’re friends are dumb , you can get to pool 3 easily in 2-3 weeks . This game isn’t made to have every single card your supposed to work with what you have and eventually gather enough cards to run said meta decks . This is by far the most f2p friendly mobile games possibly ever . Don’t get hit with fomo boys play at your own pace this is a marathon not a race .
@@rob2435 First off, learn that your is the proper choice here as you're = you are. Second my friends are proper adults that have many thousands of dollars invested in card games like MTG. Seeing the bundles and currency BS in this game is highly leaning on the gacha mobile schemes. Very few CCG's even online go the route that Snap has with trying to make cards unattainable and most gamers don't like that.
So they support wotc Actually being predators to them? 1,100 dollar booster box for 30th edition? Overpriced secret lairs every 2 weeks? Over printed and extremely rushed type 2 sets every month? Yeah okay, give them a reality check To enjoy this game to the max without going nutty it's 120 a month That's only one booster box in magic that will likely get you a bunch of shite.
The reason why the Gambit/Rogue bundle is for $ and not gold is almost guaranteed because Martin Garrix and/or the animation studio is getting a percentage off it. It has to be cash and not in game currency for tax reasons, since the in game value of gold can fluctuate.
Couldn't agree more with Alex. I was excited to spend some money and support the game while getting some awesome cosmetics BUT ffs $90/100 for a bundle (Apocalypse) and what it currently offers is just ABSURD.
There hasn't been a bundle so far that I would consider at half the current prices. When you price your in-game bundles similarly to full games that you can sink hundreds of hours into, it's not going to look very enticing.
in portugal is 60 euros, is the same price of a AAA game, i bought the Apocalypse bundle for 100 euros but i got some tokens , but the last 2 bundles impossible to argue the purchase. Im here to "help" the devs , i got all the BP so far and i plan to keep doing
Just a heads up, if Leader gets played on turn 5 and then then opponent throws down Odin on turn 6 you get Leader'd again. Unfortunately I know this from experience when someone played Wave, then next turn Leader, then final turn Odin. It was brutal.
I did that by chance. I was like: wave turn 4. Oh I can play leader! Wait maybe that was a bad idea.. oh I have Odin. Wait a minute. On reveal? On reveal. Okay! Second time around the bend, lets go!
The prices are too damn high. Not just the bundles but the variants too. I had the Nyan Cat Deadpool variant in my shop and thought about buying it but it is 1200 gold which is about ~18 € ... wtf I am not going to pay 18 € for one card variant. I will save my gold and only buy bundles like the coming Sunspot bundle. And it is sad that you support these greedy practices by buying these. "The prices are too damn high, there is no value in the bundle, but I am going to buy it anyways." Fantastic message you are sending here. Edit: I want to add that I bought the Captain America welcome bundle and also the Season Passes. I am fine with those prices and I also want to support the company because I really like the game but the bundle prices have to go down.
Leader does not need to be nerfed. Not even the power. 4 power is not that much to make up. You have 5 turns to win 2 lanes with 5 or more power, if you can't do that you deserve to lose to Leader. If you put down Angela or Bishop, those are cards they likely dont have which means an extra few points on top of whatever cards you play. Some Ongoing cards like Antman, Capt America or Punisher also help make the difference up. I'm telling you this as someone who has played Leader. I've played him with Leech. I've played him with a Wave, Leader and then Odin combo. It is not an automatic win. It has backfired half the time. Someone played Arnim Zola one time. Or even White Tiger. Or Ongoing cards. If you are missing synergies on your side that the other player has, Leader and his 4 power wont do anything for you. Leader is a good counter to people playing cards like Infinaut or Hulk. But anything with significant abilities will backfire. Lets say Devil Dino.. if their deck is meant to give them a big hand and you have less cards, their DD will be a higher power. Sure you can Leech their cards IF you have it by turn 5 and maybe it will help IF you have the space on your side and they dont draw something good on turn 6. It may suck going up against Leader and losing... but realistically there are plenty of decks that do great or fine against Leader. If I had to choose a card to nerf I'd sooner Nerf Wong (if only because of the possible minute and a half animation time). Sometimes there is just no reason On Reveals should be triggered that many times. Wong's ability should have a trigger limit. Like "cards here can can be triggered again (up to 2 times)". But even then you can argue there are counters to Wong as well. Rogue, Enchantress, Aero, any control card really.
There was a moment I almost caved. Said hell no can't do it. It's the freakin holiday season FTFO smh. 10 dollar packs is my limit. After already paying for a freakin pass
Awesome as always guys, thanks! On the "too much" topic let me offer a different perspective. First, I bought the season pass, mostly to support the game and also to get Silver Surfer, but I may never spend in the game again because I'm mostly a F2P player. Games would go broke with player like me. I also get the impression you two are typical guys with a monthly household budget that must be managed/balanced. You're both spenders, but I'm not thinking you're truly even whales, certainly not Kraken. If we want this game to go on and on and on, they need Kraken support and Kraken need something to spend on. Most games give them something that will give them a huge edge over the rest of us if they shell out the coin. If Second Dinner is able to sell enough high-cost but low "game play" value to meet their budget goals I am behind them 100 percent. Honestly, I think the Kraken will by these "junk" packs, for awhile, but eventually the Devs are going to have to find a way to put some good value packs in the shop, hopefully without turning the game into P2W. Keep up the good work, and snap on.
If Hearts Wild came out at $4.99 USD ($9.99 CDN) I imagine that everyone would have bought it. As it stands, $40 bucks CDN is just ridiculous for 2 cards. In no way would I ever consider $20 bucks per card to be worth it. They already proved with the welcome bundle that a variant should cost around/under 5 bucks and I think they should stick with that mindset. It's kind of how I justify spending $15 bucks each month because I know I'll get at least 3 variants. I just hope they stop with the excessive costs because I (like many others) am more than willing to spend money on a game to support it, provided the prices are fair.
I bought the hearts wild bundle when it was put up at 20 bucks USD before they fixed it to be 30 bucks USD, and I was debating it at the 20 dollar price. I couldn't believe it was actually supposed to be 30. 30 is too damn high. I'm all for the occasional 100 dollar bundle mega pack and 50 dollar bundles, but it would be nice to see smaller value bundles for 5 to 10 bucks. Bundles should be used to provide occasional discount pricing for "great deal" value for people that have a little extra cash to spend
They should follow the dota 2 model. The best model for a free game there is. Access to everything, a new play has the same ability to win as veteran player. Skill is the separator. You pay for variants, different card animations, different map visuals, all that. Encourage artist to submit work to get put into the game and take a % of the profit.
Started the game pre-christmas. As a software engineer I want to support the game/devs. I bought Silver Surfer/Zabu passes cause I feel like the 15-20USD equivalent a month is fair. Spending 40 bucks on 2 cards is not
Hey Alex! Just an idea, you should periodically do short review videos of the MCU. I’d like to know your thoughts. I think you last mentioned that you saw Thor the dark world and you didn’t like it 😂
I think the bundles are ridiculously overpriced. However by admitting you are going to go ahead and buy them anyway is just reinforcing second dinner strategy to continue this absurdly greedy pricing. The only way to make them reconsider is voting with your wallet. Complaining about the pricing and then buying it anyway will achieve nothing
I would do a full common frame to infinity frame amount of credits(1555 right?) along with the price being $15 US, convert that into Canadian currency and that’ll be your amount. Perhaps 500-600 gold with it too, for mission refreshes
We all got the monkey paw situation where we all said " we don't mind them charging for something to found the game" and then we get this as a reaction. Yes this to expensive and we need to get it fixed. For all if it was just 20$ and if they removed the credits attached then I'd be more open into it. I don't mind bundle costs gold because we as players can save up for that.
Honestly if they just offered multiple versions of the bundles. So for the Sera one when it comes out, it offers you either the full bundle, the bundle minus the credits/tokens and then one which just offers the avatars. I do kinda want the magical girl Sera avatar but I'm not going to be pay out the ass just for that one avatar.
I also noticed both android and apple are charging more than steam for the battle pass by very little bit (atleast in my country). I think google and apple are charging taxes higher than steam store.
I bought the bundle because I needed both cards. But I didn't know that you then pull the no variant versions in caches, so you aren't really getting the cards for the money.
She hulk popped up and I was 500 short. I pinned her and got her a week later. This used all my tokens up, the next two to show up for me were daredevil, and the aero.. She hulk has been awesome but I can only think about how I may have messed up as I try to slowly save to get to 1000 tokens again.
She-Hulk is a great buy. I think the best cards to get are those that are very versatile and can be played in a lot of decks. I'm in the same position as you right now, spent my tokens on She-Hulk and now have Aero pinned in my shop. But it was tough passing up on fun cards like Destroyer, Hela, Wong, Mystique, etc.
Leader is Hulks greatest enemy. He should keep the same ability but should only copy cards at or above 9 power. Makes thematic sense and would have leader serve his purpose rather than being a plug-in-play 6 drop
The leech+leader problem originated from people who endlessly played silversurfer and death+shehulk, it was obvious that those who didn't have access to those cards would look for a way to deal with them, nerfing leader or leech would only be beneficial for the whales, I I was already disgusted that shehulk or silversurfer played me so I'm against saying that leader+leech is the problem when the problem was the powercreep of the season pass card and pool 4 cards. Plus i dont known what is the problem with leader if lockjaw, dino and patriot are perfect counters, the problem is the people who don't think for themselves and only copy what they see on youtube and twitch.
Me personally (mostly free to play style) do not think they are too high. Especially the Apocalypse one -he's been in for a long time now - you could have bought it without spending money. Also - those are cosmetics. Selling cosmetics is the least predatory option (yes, you can unlock a card earlier, but I do not think that it's a big problem). I do not need to buy it. If I want to support them - there's always season pass. Should the prices be lower? I wouldn't complait, sure. But I will not complain if they stay the way they are.
So I bought the hearts wild bundle because I didn't have Rogue and Gambit and needed them to complete decks. My CL isn't as high as you two so it was really nice to be able to get them. I do agree it was too expensive though.
Great discussion guys! I’m hoping destroy archetype doesn’t get nerfed as I’m having a blast with my new death Zola destroy deck. Just won a double snap match Zola’ing a 62 power venom from shuris lab 😂
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Let me know what u think about this wishlist:
1. Animated/3d avatars
2. $2/$5/$10 cosmetics- avatars, card backs, frame effects bundles with some tokens, credits, gold
3. More responses and emojis to choose from
4. Obviously friend-play is coming, I just want it so…
5. More modes more modes more modes!
6. Card variant trade w friends option
7. Larger soundtrack to loop/ original music per specific stages
8. Accompanying app tracker for ure cards/ win rates/ tier/ rankings etc and friend finder/ purchase history
9. New modes w clear progress counters equal to season pass/ infinite/ missions/ collect level etc
10. More effects and more card split options
11. Avatar evolution and split potential
12. On accompanying app also have card usage percentages and win rates/ all lists of cards/variants/effects/avatars/bundles etc (available and not available)
13. MORE SNAPCHAT EPISODES FROM ALEX AND COZY!!!
Just a heads up, if Leader gets played on turn 5 and then then opponent throws down Odin on turn 6 you get Leader'd again. Unfortunately I know this from experience when someone played Wave, then next turn Leader, then final turn Odin. It was brutal.
Incredible list!!!
You are absolutely correct about the bundles. I'm a fairly new player, started in November. For December I gave myself a gift and bought the Season Pass and am glad I did. Then, I saw the bundles and I just laughed. The prices made absolutely no sense and it actually concerned me that the company was appearing to be incredibly greedy. I hope they are listening because though I'm enjoying the game I may drop back to free to play if they keep doing things like this. I like supporting supportive companies, not greedy ones.
I feel like if they made the hearts wild bundle $10 American they would have sold and made more money.
The welcome bundle is half the product for$2.99! $10 seems fair!
Agreed. When I saw the $30 price tag for what you get, it just doesn’t seem worth it. $10 might be more favorable for people to want to invest their money. They should have also given people a chance to use gold to get it
The monetization is literally offputting to be honest, gold is only used for Daily Missions, credit income rate is too slow, tokens are almost un-obtainable. They ruined a great game in 3 weeks after it’s release honestly
That's what you think, but if you dive into the economic of mobile games you will see that it's just not true.
@@FlorianRachor1 I do. Also when you have whales 🐋 complaining about the price how are you going to argue with me?
You guys are such a good duo! You're both natural entertainers- the quick humour and jibes are brilliant. Alex's disgust at Cozy describing Leech caught me off guard - I was bagging up my groceries whilst listening and started laughing to myself like a crazy person. Keep up the great work
Oh god when you made the God of War comparison my stomach dropped…you’re so right.
The bundles aren’t what bothers me personally, I play gacha games and they are similar to that. However the need for more ways to acquire resources is the main issue right now. This problem is what makes the bundles a problem because you feel the need to buy it to have a good shot at account progression
Except the bundle was only a monetary cost, no in-game currency attached to it. If it was only gold I think the backlash would have been less.
@Zuzu Muzu idk they can't put boosters and tokens as a reward for the same level at the same time
Facts we need more credits
You could argue that the introduction of the Tokens do bring some kind of a pay to win thing into the game. Because if you have tokens, you can get better cards that you might need for better deck. And they now do sell tokens in expensive bundles. So I would not be able to completely deny it, if someone argues that there are pay to win elements in the game.
It was allways pay to win.. just not as predatory as most mobiles and better disguised
I could get behind that arguement, if you could straight up buy tokens with money. But you really can't, you can buy 1 bundle with not enough tokens for a pool 5 card and you can even get that as a free to play player. If you're a F2P player that religiously saves your gold, you will have exactly as many tokens as the whaliest whale out there.
You still can buy token to get cards .. that’s literally the definition of P2W .. lets stop kidding ourselves.. the match making also makes you hit a wall at some point where it establishes a invisible rating and pins you against increasingly higher rated opponents that have better cards just to push you to pay to maybe get the cards that are owning you
All card games have some inherent P2W elements. The most F2P friendly card game out there is definitely Legends of Runeterra where it’s extremely easy for everyone, including F2P to get every card in the game. The main monetization in that game comes from cosmetics like skins/boards/pets/emotes. You can save up currency to craft every card you need when a new expansion drops.
It’s not pay to win if a free to play player can get it too without spending a dollar 🤷🏽♂️
Love that these episodes are getting longer and longer! Also agree that the bundles are way too expensive, I want more bundles like the Captain America bundle!
I've been playing Leech since I saw Mogwai's Lockjaw deck with him in the deck. Never understood why he wasn't being played.
I just want to say "THANK YOU" for touching on the subject of bundle prices, as other RUclipsrs were openly hostile when people were saying that the game is predatory in its pricing and accusing people of wanting everything for free.
I want to get Gambit for my Wong deck, but I can't spend 38€ on it, and the fact that a Series 1 player can unlock him (and all the upcoming cards) with his wallet is worrying.
Hopefully Second Dinner will listen to you more than us posting on their discord server.
U can unlock gambit for free stop crying
Jeez
If you want a super rare varient of gambit then buy the pack or shut.
Next
I'm so on the fence for the heart's wild bundle. If it was 20 or had twice as many credits I might pull the trigger, but 30 USD? Naaaaah...
You are aware that for what your spending you could buy a Full game that has No Micro Transactions.
greedy devs.. setting the price so high for just 2 cards + 1.5k credits. I will not buy such an overprice IAP. Will continue to vote with my wallet until prices go down further, else give more in the bundles / season pass. Stop being so stingy.
@@david_lifeandgames its not greed, they are trying to find a business model that works for their game, but I agree everyone should vote with their wallet and send them the message this isn't it.
Don't be on the fence. It's a EASY no.
I agree about the bundles. The price tag aside, I can still stomach it if it doesn't have a time limit; I can slowly save up in game or in real life to get the variant that I really want. The time limit is borderline predatory to me.
Thank you for putting the adverts between segments :)
I saw the Gambit and Rogue bundle when it was $19.99, and I was hedging because I am also a huge Gambit and Rogue fan as a kid. They were my power Xmen couple But when it went up $10, I couldn't get there anymore. $10-15 I may have been more interested.
same i still thought it was abit to much at the first price
I also agree with you both on Dagger. It is to me a Move deck staple, but there needs to be more mover cards.
I don't play Move decks that often, but I love that they're in the game for those times when I really want to give my brain a workout.
Not just for games. We "little" people need to stand up to things we feel are unfair. Way to go Alex and Cozy!
Its funny to me hearing you talk about pricing when I live in germany where everything is even more expensive. The Gambit bundle is 37€ which is 53CAD, Season pass is 11€ which is 16CAD. The apocalypse bundle is 7500, which 8000 gold are 110€ which is obviously 160CAD. Very very dissapointed in the monetasation as someone who is fearly new to the game.
I think mbaku could be pretty alright if they added something similar to Chavez, but instead of drawing last you just don’t draw him. Make him a 0 cost 2 power and that always jumps out of your deck, and thins your deck to allow better draw.
Honestly I think a huge improvement to the bundles that would (partially) justify the price tag is that when you get variants it also unlocks the main card so you dont get it in your collection track. That way players who dont have the cards dont have to worry about buying the variants and then it still take a card pull slot
It how it already works. I get the card if you get the variant. Not the Base card but the usual.
Probably the bundles should give Boosters for the specific cards or more credits. Even if they have a gold price would be ok
@@EligorArgentum you get the card to use but it's not removed from your pool. So if you bought the pack you can use Gambit but if you never pulled him from collection track you still need to in order to get all pool 3 cards
I think the real problem with move decks is that they get crippled by not enough board space and locations that stop them from moving. If you planning to move a card on 5 but they play storm you’re screwed. If locations like mini lab or Fisk tower show up, you’re screwed. And with multiple man in particular, you quickly run out of space to make him good. The best change I could think of to improve them is allow you to choose which way you want to go on cards like iron fist and hiemdall. This probably won’t happen because they’d have to add player interaction after a playing a card, but I think it would make the decks feel a lot better. You could punch a multiple man from the middle to the right, use cloak to move both copies to the left lane. And the hiemdall everything right and get 3 more copies. Or if they play storm on the right lane, hiemdall could actually be a useful counter because you could move everything into it. It would just allow you to be more flexible and give you options
Ngl, that Leech variant looks like the Mask on Meth 🤣 also I think adding collector tokens to the bundle and making it purchasable with gold or cash would be a great way to make it more F2p friendly, also imagine if they let you pin a deal? That would be cool too!
I'm really glad you guys talk about the high prices of these bundles but I'm afraid Second Dinner won't change these prices.
Community helped them get the best mobile game award and they couldn't even give 1000 Tokens, they gave us 1000 Credits instead.
I don't expect them to change their strategy, especially since people are buying whatever they throw in there.
I wanted to support them because of how great the game is, but I'm not buying anything else other than the Season Pass anymore. I used to get some gold here and there, but that's over now.
Another great show, I love watching you guys, keep it up! :D
the bundle prices need to be good for everybody. A big timer for the high priced bundles and maybe a money and gold price to them so that people that play can save up and just get it for free. Also the money price needs to be lower i would not say ALOT but lower.
Hearts Wild i would gladly give 20 bucks for the hearts bundle. The Cyber Holiday bundle is almost 120 euro for me so that is WAY to high. I get you get alot back but a bundle of 120 is just stupid. Either make smaller bundles or make them both money priced (cheaper) and gold price (current). If you want everybody buying the stuff you need to think off the playerbase in a whole not just one part of it. Just so you know i am no WHALE and i could still say yes to buying every bundle but i would rather see they made the changes to them. They need to stop going gacha style pricing because if they do they gonna be bleeding players and after a while be a shell of what they could have been. This is a card game give everybody a fair price and you will see them buying it even if it is just to support. I would gladly buy bundles for cards i do NOT play if the price is fair. But hey that is jsut me this is my opinion on the bundle stuff i love the game and will play it just not buy a bundle unless i see a price that is fair.
Basic card Leech is from the 90’s X-Men cartoon, I will take that version over happy cartoony Leech every day and and twice on Sundays!
Love the bundles chat. It was very good. I first said that I was going to be F2P but after hearing you guys talk about supporting the game. I will currently only buy the field passes. Support the game with what you can.
The passes are really all you need!
I would not spend more than $5 for the Hearts Wild bundle. More than that for two card skins and a couple cropped avatars from those skins feels obscene to me.
Rogue has been my favorite hero since the 90s and I want this throwback to the 90s cartoon so bad, but it is just too much!
Up front, I have not purchased this bundle.
Looking at the math (in USD):
1500 boosters is 1200 gold
2 variants is 1400 gold minimum (700 each)
looking at what it costs to buy that in the shop. 1200 gold is $19.96; each variant would be $9.99
So individually, the cards and the credits alone cost $39.94 if bought individually
So overall, it appears to be a deal. Now that said, I have not purchased this bundle. Even though Rogue and Gambit were my most favorite characters in the 90s series, I have not hit purchase and am not sure I am going to. Like Alex said. That same amount of money is God of War on Steam, or for $5 more I can get the Spider-Man remaster on Steam. I liked the idea of maybe rotating more often through something more like welcome bundles. Either way I am looking forward to what the SD team comes up with in the future.
Great stuff Alex and Cozy, you guys always have a wealth of info and good vibes on the Snapcast!
As for the bundles, there has to be a lower price point where they make more money. Like say 5% of players buy the Hearts Wild bundle at $30. I bet at $10 it’s more like 20% buy it. So it’s a net gain of 33% more money coming in. And it’s not like these cost them on an individual basis like it’s a tangible good. If they sell 1 or 100 the amount of extra cost to them is negligible.
I bought when it was at 20$ on steam and I still thought it was too much. But I knew they were gonna fix it quick and I wanted to at least send the message that myself and probably others would buy these at cheaper prices where I know they can still make money from, instead of the aggressive 30$ one they were pushing.
I think the reason they didn't put Collector Tokens in the Hearts Wild bundle is because if you are below Collection Level 500, then any bundles that include Collection Tokens do not appear in your shop, and they want that bundle to appear to the entire player-base. I only recently started playing and am in the CL 400s, and so my shop doesn't have the Apocalypse bundle. It sucks because I might want to use my stored-up gold on a big bundle like Apocalypse but I am not allowed to, but it also makes sense because players before CL 500 have no way of using the Collection Token currency which is the reason the bundle doesn't show up for them.
But this creates the problem that any bundle they create that has Collector Tokens is inevitably not going to be seen by lower level players, so the devs are incentivized to NOT put Collector Tokens in bundles.
I understand that the company needs to make money, but if they come off as exploratory and exclusionary it drives players away. Look at successful games like clash royale or brawlstars, they will usually have cheap offers or passes at a great value (generally 14X). If every deal that comes out is 30-40+ it will alienate players that are not willing to spend that much on a single mobile purchase.
I agree with the bundle issues. Personally what alex said about being “comfortable” enough to buy this is spot on. Everyone has that hmmm okay i can get this feeling and with these bundles it’s immediately “whoa, no” what games screw up on is they expect a large number of people to buy the expensive bundles.. but if they sell good quality bundles for $10-15 rather than some big one for $100 i guarantee you’ll get triple the amount of people buying that rather than the few that can afford to buy the expensive one. (As an example) Which grows the game in more ways than monetary.
When Cozy explained that Zero deck your brain was LOADING with thoughts lol
I really appreciate that you guys have talked about this bundle, I knew it wasn’t worth it but wish they switched out the credits with tokens. This game has so many good things going for it so I wasn’t mad that they made this small mistake. That’s all it is just a small mistake by second dinner. I really hope they continue to make this game affordable while also be able to make enough money to keep the game up for years!
I bought the Hearts Wild bundle myself and I’ll acknowledge that the prices are quite egregious, but I’m also personally happy with supporting the game on top of my love for the X-Men.
Without said, I think if they priced things better. They’d actually end up making MORE money. Overpricing things will just deter consumers from actually supporting them financially.
The bundle prices feel like software licenses to companies in tech. The prices are stupid high but companies NEED them so they have no option but to pay. No individual would ever have the money to overpay like that. In marvel snap it feels like this pricing is aimed towards the content creators, who need the cards to make content, but then can turn that content into money to pay for the bundles.
I've been playing this game for a few months and I've seen multiple bundles that cost over 100e. In fact, they rarely put up bundles that I would consider worth it for me (bundles with lots of credits to advance my collection) for under 100e! I like some of the variants too so that I don't feel bad buying them with the gold that I've gained by playing the game but I would never ever buy gold with real money since it is so ridiculously expensive. Like I've said before in some other comment sections, I will purely be staying with the battle pass as it feels like the only thing worth the damn money I paid for it.
Brother reccomended the game to me with super high praises, and I'm really... really not a superhero kinda guy. But I've really been enjoying the game, and it was a shock to see a bundle at $40 starting and I wasn't even sure if it'd unlock the cards for me
15:15 It's a hard balance to strike, but erring on the side of affordability means that it's more affordable for everyone, which means everyone can play more and to a more comprehensive degree. That sounds a little idealistic, but if you tell your friend that the animated series bundle is $8, that sounds good, but if you tell them $40, that's a big, BIG difference. Yes, F2P means that it needs to be monetized outside of initial cost to fund expansions, new cards, etc. but I feel this pricing comes (not from a greed perspective), but a bit of a scarcity mindset. Which is totally bizarre because they should be operating from an abundance mindset, everyone loves them, they shouldn't be afraid of making the microtransactions more accessible to get more people in the door and as a byproduct make more money (or at least the same average of $/person).
The other side of this is (I'm the lead game dev on an alpha card game, this is how I know this): Good, game appropriate art can be INSANELY expensive and is almost hands down the most expensive part of any game, so ROI numbers need to get met, but I can't imagine that 2 people feeling bad about their purchase (referring to the bundle from the video) is somehow better than 5 people loving their purchase. It's all about what you guys discussed, "what is the value of the product?" And the value of in-game goods is rarely, well, good.
Wanted to comment on the first part of the vid about the monetization in SNAP atm while its still fresh in my head. I completely agree that $30 USD (which usually means outside the US its even more expenesive) for the Gambit/Rogue bubdle is excessive to say the least and is pretty much insanely bad in terms of overall value. However I think its clear that SD is trying to find what price points both work and are fair so these initial bundles (at least the ones without $ price tages) are strictly cosmetic based so imo at least it doesnt create a p2w situation.
Even the Apocalypse bundle, though still expensive and actually has items that are needed to progress your account, is priced in gold so even f2p players can save up and snipe a couple future bundles if they so choose (and lower/budget spenders can offset the cost of bundles with free gold like I personally plan to do going forward). I also think making exclusive variants the main path for a games monetization is the fairest method since its purely cosmetic and has zero affect on gameplay. Also imo no one should expect to get everything in any game that they don't pay for and again cosmetics are always the best monetization method but $30 is still quite excessive for what the hearts wild bundle gives you
I'm still giving the devs the benefit if the doubt and am keeping my faith that they'll work out the current kinks and other growing pains as more data comes in and the direction of the game unfolds. Personally there are key pieces of information and necessary adjustments to the games economy that we, the players, need such as the rate new series 5 cards get reduced and adding additional methods for obtaining tokens (one idea I had is being able to convert any free variant you get, but don't want, into like 400 or 500 tokens but it has to be a free variants only, not a shop variants, as it would become p2w as whales could clear the variant shop out and convert those into more tokens).
Anyways as usual I've rambled on long enough (and most likely too much). Again love SNAPchat and it's still my favorite SNAP content which ive come to look forward to each and every week. Ive been tuning into twitch to watch Alex and will do the same for Cozy whenever you get some time to stream (ofc with a new baby its 100% understandable that you'd be insanely busy) and until then I'll finish watching Alex's portion of SNAPchat
The leach art work convo was hilarious.
It's even more ridiculous with the Sunspot bundle being 6k. So effectively over £70 here in the UK!
why does Cozy always look like Cameron Diaz from a certain scene from There’s Something About Mary. 😂😂
im having a lot of success with differant control lists. right now i play the daredevil one with prof x, hobgoblin gamora. attuma for the combo with prof x and because i play armor also. then a cosmo for good sake, a green goblin. the rest is filled with standalone good cards: iceman, lizard, maximus, destroyer.
my other control list had green goblin, goose, armor, cosmo, shang chi, enchantress, killmonger... and works very well too.
Sounds like a lot of fun. Great use of Attuma btw, don't see that card very often.
@@nox6497 Thanks, yeah i bought him mostly for my zero list where i just added him and armor. because i wanna protect my red skull / thypoid mary etc. anyway so might as well throw him in the armor lane. and standalone in a lane hes better than mary because he has no drawback ^^
A really interesting idea to fix leader I saw was to have him copy cards played in the other two lanes. Plays into the theme of outleveling your opp.
Leader does not need to be fixed... if you can't muster more than a 4 power difference by the end of the 5th turn to prevent that lane from flipping, you deserve to lose. Does it feel great to have a turn 6 clutch? Sure. But there needs to be a way to counter such a clutch. Leader does that. But he isnt even perfect because cards like Angela, Bishop or some Ongoing cards can absolutely make up additional power through synergies that a person playing Leader on turn 6 probably wont have. Leader is not full proof. Its mainly meant for turn 6 big power drops like Infinaut or Hulk or Chavez or Devil Dino. Its not an automatic win condition. I see no reason for it to be nerfed. I personally have had it backfire maybe 45% of the time if not 50%. Even if you play Leech before Leader and increase your chances, if you dont have the space for the cards that need copied, you are screwed. And the opponent has 5 turns to put down cards to help them win.
I agree Marvel SNAP needs to be monetized and I think there is a good balance for that. I trust they will figure it out, they have good will with their community right now based on previous actions.
Personally, I don’t mind spending $10-$20, on occasion, when something really connects with me (looking at you Spider-Man/Sandman bundle). But, I also know I’m only willing to consider spending lower amounts. High dollar amounts have no chance with me. The only way these prices get lower is if their high-cost offerings continually fall below their sales benchmarks. The higher the dollar amount the greater potential for buyers remorse. So, I do think they need to consider what they offer for sale because that will ultimately influence the SNAP brand, how people perceive it and if they want to stick around. Seems like a tricky balance. Thanks!
Back in the 90's my cousin and I would fight as X-men on our trampoline. I would pick Gambit every time he picked Wolverine, because I would just kinetic charge wolverines skeleton every time he clawed me. The only way I could beat Wolverine back then (not even sure if it works like that, but it did for us)... yeah.... I bought the pack.
I got the Cyber, but not the Hearts. The only temptation of Hearts bundle was acquiring heroes that you haven't pulled yet (Gambit for me). Tokens, Credits, plus variants (cool ones only) are my only considerations when evaluating a purchase there.
Easy fix for Leader is the same fix they gave for Magik, I know you guys don't like it but giving him the old Ebony Maw/Magik turn time restriction of 'must be played before turn 6' neuters him a lot.
They need to polish the avatars, give them animations (even particle fx), or give them custom emotes like Hero’s have in Hearthstone (right now it’s a real downer opening avatars in caches)
Hello Mr. Coccia, my teen girls, who play supervised have a request. This was their question "Hi, you were discussing the ability types, can you maybe do a video on ones that have no abilities. They seem to be a huge disadvantage to play at all. What can they do to fix that?" Thank you. I maybe a topic both of you can discuss. Continued success-Mrs. King
Hi there! The card that they are looking for is PATRIOT! Patriot gives the cards with no abilities +2 power, and can be combo'd with Mystique to make it a +4!
@@AlexanderCoccia I told them, they said thank you, but to them, without that card not much value in those cards. Maybe they have something planned for them in the future. Happy Holidays and appreciated the reply.
cozy’s face after you said if they nerf aero 😂
I used a Leader deck almost exclusively last month and I don’t understand what the problem is now. You have to use every turn previous to turn 6 to make sure you are winning one location and down less that 4 at the location you play him. That might sound easy but with all the insane turn 6 shenanigans that happen now, he’s not all that amazing. He doesn’t work against well played Dino decks. He doesn’t work against Destroyer decks. He doesn’t work against crazy Wong combos. He doesn’t work against cerebro decks. The only thing he really works against is big turn 6 one card plays that don’t rely on previously set up synergies.
Granted I am lacking some key cards that might change that up, but I just don’t see how people are up in arms so much with Leader.
leader copying the boosted cards if you dont have initiative is whats most frustrating thing about him. so sometimes it doesn't even matter if the leader play is behind.
I personally got the gambit rogue bundle just to get pool 3 cards I hadn't pulled yet. I think the main problem is variants are valued too high by the devs. If variants were cheaper the bundles would be too. I don't know why companies do this. Gaming is one of the largest industries the world. Quantity of transactions is more profitable imo.
This, the devs clearly overvalue Variant cards just by judging the prices in the shop, 700 gold for a Pixel variant? Who the fuck is every going to buy that? 1200 gold for a 'super rare' variant...which is over 10 bucks for a Jpeg (it's NFTs basically), it's obvious that not a lot of people are buying variants, meanwhile like 2 bucks for a basic variant and 4 for a super rare is more likely to get people to buy.
Talk about conversions? Here in Brazil it cost, 160, for Gambit and Rogue, and 500 to get Apocalypse bundle. Sad! I already buy the premium every month, 50, or 69,9 to get 10 levels open. It's hard, but we manage at some point, but the bundles... this is too high
the biggest problem with the pricing and packs imo is that most people really just wanna spend below 20 and they seem to be allergic to that and that the variants dont come with the cards they go with or at the very least tokens for the shop that already are sparce to begin with. I understand they dont want to make it pay to win and turn the shop into "buy your cards here, dont play the game" but there has to be some kind of middle ground they can find if they want to push into that $30+ range
Failing to consider that most players may not have Gambit or Rogue yet in their collection. Hearts Wild bundle allows those players to gain access to these cards, include them in decks, and participate in the Hero event.
Yeah I bought it because I didn’t have rogue yet and there’s nothing wrong with that but just know you can still pull the original variant in caches and reserves if you do.
@@peterkefalos7430 I didn't know this! I assumed it gave you the basic variant that's so goofy lol
I do not have either in my collection, and they are both excellent cards with good art, but the price is still too damn high. If it was $5, it'd be an instant buy; at $30, I won't even consider it. There is a huge gap there. I also think there is also a little bit of predation on the newer users that don't realize that until level 1,000, you will be pulling a LOT of Pool 3 cards, which very well may have one or both of these cards.
I also bought it because I didn't have Rogue... Second to next card I unlocked after was Rogue... Punished but at the end of the day I'm down to support a free game I love
in italy the gambit/rogue bundle priced up every day for 4 days. started to 20€ and ended at 38€
so pretty much each card is 19.99 cdn each, all other stuff aside that is the way i am looking at it. the problem now is that if they reduce the cost per card in the bundle then early adopters of buying are gonna feel hosed. they should of not done a "lets see how high we can make it approach", that is hard to back track now.
They should make daily logins for credits and gold for ftp the most bundles should go for is 15 dollars regular bundles should be 10$ and it would be nice while having more bundles for the player who wants it to choose from and there favorite hero’s
Alex is spot on with his Leader Suggestion, restrict his play to turn 1-5 only. If you try to make is so he can't be played on turn 6, Leader users will just use Magik with Leader and nuke players on turn 7.
Leader's counter is, obviously, Leech. But generally speaking it's lateral power cards. Lateral cards being those that improve other cards in play. Their own power is by and large not relevant as Leader will make it a net zero gain on location.
i live in Dubai.UAE and the pro bundle is literally 369.99 AED, that is so expensive to the fact that i could literally go have a night out, go to a fancy restaurant + go to the cinema + buy some clothing or a new pair of boots. and ill still be under 369.99 AED, so like??? what are u doing devs?
I will say that I have been on both sides of leader. I have played him to win games I had no business winning, and I have lost games I should have won. However, I remember my first few matches playing leader were BAD. I practically gave my opponents the win. I had to learn to set up the board and I kinda play my deck around Leader.
Alex I’ve been saying this about leader for a while what hurts isn’t the copy it’s the fact that it knullifies your whole turn 6 power push. I think it should be a 5-4 and can’t be played on turn 6.
I play Magic the Gathering very regularly and told my friends about snap and their responses were unanimously: Progression through lootboxes and the first things I see are multiple currencies and 120€ bundles. they didn't give the game a chance, but I get where they're coming from
Same here, they all see the paywall as being predatory like gacha games and I can't really argue against that. They're really missing the mark on the issues with currency and overpricing their variants.
Except you’re friends are dumb , you can get to pool 3 easily in 2-3 weeks . This game isn’t made to have every single card your supposed to work with what you have and eventually gather enough cards to run said meta decks . This is by far the most f2p friendly mobile games possibly ever . Don’t get hit with fomo boys play at your own pace this is a marathon not a race .
@@rob2435 First off, learn that your is the proper choice here as you're = you are.
Second my friends are proper adults that have many thousands of dollars invested in card games like MTG. Seeing the bundles and currency BS in this game is highly leaning on the gacha mobile schemes.
Very few CCG's even online go the route that Snap has with trying to make cards unattainable and most gamers don't like that.
So they support wotc Actually being predators to them?
1,100 dollar booster box for 30th edition?
Overpriced secret lairs every 2 weeks?
Over printed and extremely rushed type 2 sets every month?
Yeah okay, give them a reality check
To enjoy this game to the max without going nutty it's 120 a month
That's only one booster box in magic that will likely get you a bunch of shite.
@@joebowl8315 No, we all play EDH now since Hasbro ruined every other format.
I would love if leader only copies cards played on the other two locations. I think that would be very interesting and fun but a Nerf non the less
Doing great things. Loved pt1!
The reason why the Gambit/Rogue bundle is for $ and not gold is almost guaranteed because Martin Garrix and/or the animation studio is getting a percentage off it. It has to be cash and not in game currency for tax reasons, since the in game value of gold can fluctuate.
Good point!
Yeah I figured that's why it's cash only
Nice artist drop btw, had no clue who did these
Couldn't agree more with Alex. I was excited to spend some money and support the game while getting some awesome cosmetics BUT ffs $90/100 for a bundle (Apocalypse) and what it currently offers is just ABSURD.
There hasn't been a bundle so far that I would consider at half the current prices. When you price your in-game bundles similarly to full games that you can sink hundreds of hours into, it's not going to look very enticing.
in portugal is 60 euros, is the same price of a AAA game, i bought the Apocalypse bundle for 100 euros but i got some tokens , but the last 2 bundles impossible to argue the purchase.
Im here to "help" the devs , i got all the BP so far and i plan to keep doing
Just a heads up, if Leader gets played on turn 5 and then then opponent throws down Odin on turn 6 you get Leader'd again. Unfortunately I know this from experience when someone played Wave, then next turn Leader, then final turn Odin. It was brutal.
I did that by chance. I was like: wave turn 4. Oh I can play leader! Wait maybe that was a bad idea.. oh I have Odin. Wait a minute. On reveal? On reveal. Okay! Second time around the bend, lets go!
The prices are too damn high. Not just the bundles but the variants too. I had the Nyan Cat Deadpool variant in my shop and thought about buying it but it is 1200 gold which is about ~18 € ... wtf I am not going to pay 18 € for one card variant. I will save my gold and only buy bundles like the coming Sunspot bundle.
And it is sad that you support these greedy practices by buying these. "The prices are too damn high, there is no value in the bundle, but I am going to buy it anyways." Fantastic message you are sending here.
Edit: I want to add that I bought the Captain America welcome bundle and also the Season Passes. I am fine with those prices and I also want to support the company because I really like the game but the bundle prices have to go down.
I'd love that change to Leader. Give it the Magik treatment. That would definitely give it a proper nerf.
Leader does not need to be nerfed. Not even the power. 4 power is not that much to make up. You have 5 turns to win 2 lanes with 5 or more power, if you can't do that you deserve to lose to Leader. If you put down Angela or Bishop, those are cards they likely dont have which means an extra few points on top of whatever cards you play. Some Ongoing cards like Antman, Capt America or Punisher also help make the difference up.
I'm telling you this as someone who has played Leader. I've played him with Leech. I've played him with a Wave, Leader and then Odin combo. It is not an automatic win. It has backfired half the time. Someone played Arnim Zola one time. Or even White Tiger. Or Ongoing cards. If you are missing synergies on your side that the other player has, Leader and his 4 power wont do anything for you. Leader is a good counter to people playing cards like Infinaut or Hulk. But anything with significant abilities will backfire. Lets say Devil Dino.. if their deck is meant to give them a big hand and you have less cards, their DD will be a higher power. Sure you can Leech their cards IF you have it by turn 5 and maybe it will help IF you have the space on your side and they dont draw something good on turn 6.
It may suck going up against Leader and losing... but realistically there are plenty of decks that do great or fine against Leader. If I had to choose a card to nerf I'd sooner Nerf Wong (if only because of the possible minute and a half animation time). Sometimes there is just no reason On Reveals should be triggered that many times. Wong's ability should have a trigger limit. Like "cards here can can be triggered again (up to 2 times)". But even then you can argue there are counters to Wong as well. Rogue, Enchantress, Aero, any control card really.
There was a moment I almost caved. Said hell no can't do it. It's the freakin holiday season FTFO smh. 10 dollar packs is my limit. After already paying for a freakin pass
Awesome as always guys, thanks! On the "too much" topic let me offer a different perspective. First, I bought the season pass, mostly to support the game and also to get Silver Surfer, but I may never spend in the game again because I'm mostly a F2P player. Games would go broke with player like me. I also get the impression you two are typical guys with a monthly household budget that must be managed/balanced. You're both spenders, but I'm not thinking you're truly even whales, certainly not Kraken. If we want this game to go on and on and on, they need Kraken support and Kraken need something to spend on. Most games give them something that will give them a huge edge over the rest of us if they shell out the coin. If Second Dinner is able to sell enough high-cost but low "game play" value to meet their budget goals I am behind them 100 percent. Honestly, I think the Kraken will by these "junk" packs, for awhile, but eventually the Devs are going to have to find a way to put some good value packs in the shop, hopefully without turning the game into P2W. Keep up the good work, and snap on.
If Hearts Wild came out at $4.99 USD ($9.99 CDN) I imagine that everyone would have bought it. As it stands, $40 bucks CDN is just ridiculous for 2 cards. In no way would I ever consider $20 bucks per card to be worth it. They already proved with the welcome bundle that a variant should cost around/under 5 bucks and I think they should stick with that mindset. It's kind of how I justify spending $15 bucks each month because I know I'll get at least 3 variants. I just hope they stop with the excessive costs because I (like many others) am more than willing to spend money on a game to support it, provided the prices are fair.
I bought the hearts wild bundle when it was put up at 20 bucks USD before they fixed it to be 30 bucks USD, and I was debating it at the 20 dollar price. I couldn't believe it was actually supposed to be 30. 30 is too damn high.
I'm all for the occasional 100 dollar bundle mega pack and 50 dollar bundles, but it would be nice to see smaller value bundles for 5 to 10 bucks.
Bundles should be used to provide occasional discount pricing for "great deal" value for people that have a little extra cash to spend
I will never spend $1 at these prices
They should follow the dota 2 model. The best model for a free game there is. Access to everything, a new play has the same ability to win as veteran player. Skill is the separator. You pay for variants, different card animations, different map visuals, all that. Encourage artist to submit work to get put into the game and take a % of the profit.
Started the game pre-christmas. As a software engineer I want to support the game/devs. I bought Silver Surfer/Zabu passes cause I feel like the 15-20USD equivalent a month is fair. Spending 40 bucks on 2 cards is not
Hey Alex! Just an idea, you should periodically do short review videos of the MCU. I’d like to know your thoughts.
I think you last mentioned that you saw Thor the dark world and you didn’t like it 😂
I think the bundles are ridiculously overpriced. However by admitting you are going to go ahead and buy them anyway is just reinforcing second dinner strategy to continue this absurdly greedy pricing. The only way to make them reconsider is voting with your wallet. Complaining about the pricing and then buying it anyway will achieve nothing
I would do a full common frame to infinity frame amount of credits(1555 right?) along with the price being $15 US, convert that into Canadian currency and that’ll be your amount. Perhaps 500-600 gold with it too, for mission refreshes
We all got the monkey paw situation where we all said " we don't mind them charging for something to found the game" and then we get this as a reaction. Yes this to expensive and we need to get it fixed. For all if it was just 20$ and if they removed the credits attached then I'd be more open into it. I don't mind bundle costs gold because we as players can save up for that.
Honestly if they just offered multiple versions of the bundles. So for the Sera one when it comes out, it offers you either the full bundle, the bundle minus the credits/tokens and then one which just offers the avatars. I do kinda want the magical girl Sera avatar but I'm not going to be pay out the ass just for that one avatar.
I paid $20 usd for the bundle on steam... I checked my phone and it was the $29.99 price tag but for some reason steam was $10 cheaper.
I also noticed both android and apple are charging more than steam for the battle pass by very little bit (atleast in my country). I think google and apple are charging taxes higher than steam store.
stream price went up like 4 hours after it went up for the cheaper price to match phone
I couldn't say no to the 90's variants. 100% agree the price is too damn high, but nostalgia is a hell of a drug
I bought the bundle because I needed both cards. But I didn't know that you then pull the no variant versions in caches, so you aren't really getting the cards for the money.
She hulk popped up and I was 500 short. I pinned her and got her a week later. This used all my tokens up, the next two to show up for me were daredevil, and the aero.. She hulk has been awesome but I can only think about how I may have messed up as I try to slowly save to get to 1000 tokens again.
She-Hulk is a great buy. I think the best cards to get are those that are very versatile and can be played in a lot of decks. I'm in the same position as you right now, spent my tokens on She-Hulk and now have Aero pinned in my shop. But it was tough passing up on fun cards like Destroyer, Hela, Wong, Mystique, etc.
if u dont have almost all pool 3 cards, dont spend tokens in pool 4/5
I've been loving my Zero deck. I've plugged in invisible woman and attuma for some extra power
The pricing is absolutely outrageous
Leader is Hulks greatest enemy. He should keep the same ability but should only copy cards at or above 9 power. Makes thematic sense and would have leader serve his purpose rather than being a plug-in-play 6 drop
The leech+leader problem originated from people who endlessly played silversurfer and death+shehulk, it was obvious that those who didn't have access to those cards would look for a way to deal with them, nerfing leader or leech would only be beneficial for the whales, I I was already disgusted that shehulk or silversurfer played me so I'm against saying that leader+leech is the problem when the problem was the powercreep of the season pass card and pool 4 cards. Plus i dont known what is the problem with leader if lockjaw, dino and patriot are perfect counters, the problem is the people who don't think for themselves and only copy what they see on youtube and twitch.
Me personally (mostly free to play style) do not think they are too high. Especially the Apocalypse one -he's been in for a long time now - you could have bought it without spending money.
Also - those are cosmetics. Selling cosmetics is the least predatory option (yes, you can unlock a card earlier, but I do not think that it's a big problem). I do not need to buy it. If I want to support them - there's always season pass. Should the prices be lower? I wouldn't complait, sure. But I will not complain if they stay the way they are.
So I bought the hearts wild bundle because I didn't have Rogue and Gambit and needed them to complete decks. My CL isn't as high as you two so it was really nice to be able to get them. I do agree it was too expensive though.
Fair enough!
Great discussion guys! I’m hoping destroy archetype doesn’t get nerfed as I’m having a blast with my new death Zola destroy deck. Just won a double snap match Zola’ing a 62 power venom from shuris lab 😂