According to Pellard (2015), Ryukyuan and Japanese split in the 1st century near the end of the Yayoi period, and Ryukyuan did not start settling the Ryukyu Islands until the 10th century, with some Ryukyuan speakers remaining in Kyushu up until the 12th century. Please keep that in mind as this hypothesis is not included in the video. 펠러드 (2015)에 의하면 류큐어군과 일본어군은 야요이 시대 말미 1세기 무렵에 갈라졌고, 류큐어는 10세기에야 류큐 열도에 진입하기 시작했다고 합니다. 또한 12세기까지도 류큐어 화자들이 규슈 남부에 잔류했다는 주장입니다. 본 영상에는 포함되지 않은 가설이니 참고해주시기 바랍니다.
@@cudanmang_theog Even today people of Southern Kyushu, Amami Islands, and Okinawa Islands have higher Y-DNA Haplogroup D admixture. Oldest human remains in Japan (from around 15,000 to 20,000 years ago) are mostly found in Okinawa and are generally consistent with Haplogroup D. That is why I suspect Japonic languages have spoken in Japan from the Jomon period.
I have an idea for language colors of the families Africa and Eurasia Afroasiatic (ff0000) Trans-New-Guinea (ff5500) Niger-Congo (ffaa00) Uralo-Yukaghir? (I reject language contact between those two groups) (ffff00) Sino-Dene? (Dene-Yeniseian and Sino-Tibetan) (aaff00) Algonqian-Wakashan? (also includes Chukotko-Kamchatkan-Amuric) (54ff00) Inuit-Yupik-Unangan (00ff00) Austronesian (00ff55) Altaic? (you reject it) (00ffa9) Nilo-Saharan? (00ffff) Indo-European (00a9ff) Austroasiatic (0055ff) Japonic (0000ff) Dravidian (5400ff) North Caucasian (aa00ff) Kartvelian (ff00ff) Hmong-Mien (ff0055) Koreanic (00007f)
What a great video! As we say in the very far southwest corner of the map, "arāgu fugarasā!" As a scholar of the languages of Yonaguni and the Yaeyama islands, I've had the pleasure of meeting all three of the authors whose works are used as the basis for this video, and have enjoyed reading all their work. If I may make one criticism: the Okinawan islands should be shown in an inset so that we can see when each island started speaking which language. The green and yellow areas are just too small to see.
Hello! I'm very interested in Ryukyuan linguistics and I was curious if I could be directed to any good literature on the subject. I am also curious if you would be able to talk about how you were able to become a scholar of these languages. Thank you so much!
Especially considering that they use place names of all sources to base their understanding of ancient languages. Place names are very conservative, hell, tons of English place names are of Celtic origin. There are better sources to use to base languages than place names, all place names do is to suggest at least some sort of substrate and at least the types of people that originally resided in the places.
Yeah. Robetees is not a competent linguist. If you read his paper deeply, you can see that he claims that hypothesis, ignoring many archaeological facts. Vovin and Whitman's hypothesis is much more convincing..
Both match the adh1b gene distribution (rs1229984 exactly and also rs3811801). And also places where raw fish was/is eaten. Kuahuqiao and Shangshan are ancient Austronesian (Kra-Dai relation) cultures whose artifacts had suns on them which might indicate sun worship. They were the first to cultivate rice and so maybe it could've been related to a harvest ritual idk
Austroasiatic and Austronesian both have the and infixes (as well as the prefix etc.). The presence of infixes of identical form and similar semantics was one of the main arguments for the Austric hypothesis. In fact, I know of Filipinos who can understand words in Khmer with these affixes if they know the root words' meaning. Such a feature seems to be indicative of a common ancestor rather than borrowing especially for the infixes which are rare in linguistics.
Wow, I absolutely loved this! Your style is honestly one of the best ones I've seen. It's so soothing and comfortable to look at. You're definitely an extremely underrated mapper in my opinion, you deserve so much more attention for your great work! Keep it coming, looking forwards to what you have in store next! :D
It’s hard to confirm where Japonic languages is originated. Japonic languages show multiple layers of vocabulary sharing with Ainu, Korean, Tungusic, Mongolic, Old Chinese, Kra-Dai, Austroasiatic and Austronesian. I have records of possible cognates. I’ve read some Vovin’s works that pointed out the origin of Japonic in southern China which is close to Austroasiatic and Kra-Dai origins. Vovin listed various Japonic roots which possibly related to Kra-Dai and he believe that Japonic might have been monosyllabic, isolating language and have SVO syntax. Examples of Japonic monosyllabic words in Vovin’s work: leaf *pa (Tai *ʔbaï) side *pia (Tai * ʔbïaŋ) wife *mia (Tai *mia) long *nan-ka (Tai *na:n) mountain *wo (Tai *buo) house *ya (Tai *ʔjau) door *to (Tai *tu) inside *na-ka (Tai *naï)
In addition, his 2021 paper Austronesians in Northern Waters places another layer of Austronesian about around the Yayoi to Yamato periods. Core vocabulary and intense contact based on comparisons using Old Japanese poems with mostly Philippine languages as well as some western Malayo-Polynesian and Amis. Core vocab and intense contact according to him
@@lexxiii3 i dont know much of history of languages, but isnt possible the austranesian elements be from populations of the islans prior to japanese migrations? i said that becuse native americans also share the sun worship and we know some populations of japan crossed to america in the ice age. And aslo some native americans share a few similar words to those from austranesians. I really dont know much so i may be wrong, just wondering.
Remember that Japanese people didn't even exist at those times, so japonic is not a thing. If anything Japanese is a Buyeo North Korean language. How can a language even exist before the identity of the people who speak the language? It's just another feeble try at claiming history that's not theirs. Korean identity has been a thing since ancient times, we are people who originated in Siberia by lake Baikal, so to say japonic is even a language family is preposterous! As a Korean we should be very vocal about this and stop humoring the Japanese, a people who fancy themselves as special and above Koreans. They are not. They covet our identity and try so hard to claim it. Even this claim that tamna people spoke a japonic language is hilarious yet offensive!
I really appreciate that the creator included lesser known theories but not his execution. Like why pick and choose, and exclude. Why make it either-or instead of presenting both or all sides?
There is a very strong presence of the D haplogroup on the Japanese islands (especially with the Ainus of Hokkaido) maybe this show that the Whitman and Vovin hypothesis is more plausible as it shows that Proto-japanase originated in central China near Tibet, and today we know that Tibet with Japan have are the places where the Haplogroup D is the most common in Asia. Anyway I love this chanel, it's incredibly detailed and very well done, keep it up !!
The D haplogroup is mostly because of the Ainus who thousands of years ago used to inhabit Japan, Manchuria, Korea, Mongolia and Tibet but got removed due to other haplogroups migrating
@@dormant3456 Actually, 40% of Japanese male carry Haplogroup D. All Japanese have some admixture of Jomon DNA. Ainu too are one of off-springs of the Jomon people. Jomon folks in Karafuto, Chishima, and Hokkaido mixed with Okhotsk people and developed their unique fusion culture around 12-13th century. After Ainu, the highest Halpo D admixture is found in Okinawa, Tohoku region, Southern Kyushu, Izumo etc.
What if Korean and japanese peoples did not originate from one of these theories, but both? It would make sense genetically. I think that you should start including genetic data into your map-making, whether y-dna, mitochondrial or autosomal DNA.
@@fearmor3855 I have seen research showing that the main migration and linguistic influence came from the north but migration from the yangtze delta brought agricultural and material culture, leaving a significant print on Kyushu.
Genetic evidence points to a patrilineal line based in the South (Y-DNA haplogroup O1b2), but whole genome sequencing says the Japanese and Koreans today are more northern-shifted. There are also other Y-DNA haplogroups that got introduced into the Japanese & Korean populations. Linguistic evidence, on the other hand, does not yet support the Japanese-Korean relationship, but instead point to an early contact between the two. It may be that the O1b2 line of Japanese and Koreans indeed started off from the south, along the Yangtze, moving east to the coast and then making their way into Northeastern China where they heavily intermixed with the various unrelated "Altaic" people, resulting in the superficial similarity we see today. We're not too sure about the beginning part, but the next part is more clear: We know that the early people whom we refer to as the Mumuns moved into the Korean Peninsula and then became the Yayoi of Japan. The Mumuns that stayed behind in Korea got taken over and assimilated by a northern nomadic tribe that introduced the Koreanic tongue to them. Meanwhile, the Yayoi intermixed with the Jomon on the archipelago, until they both got overwhelmed by the Kofun settlers from the Yellow River in northern China, which a Japanese study confirmed in 2021 to be the ancestors of modern Japanese (making up 70% of their ancestry).
@@auburntiger6829 To the contrary, analysis on rice DNA indicates Japan and the Korean peninsula have grown different strains and have no connection. As such, some scholars believe that hydroponic rice came directly to Japan from Southern China near the Yangtze Basin (along with the people who produced it). Most of Korean peninsula and Manchuria was too cold to produce rice, so a northern route doesn't make sense. Additionally, there are a number of sub-groups within O1b2 and deeper genetic studies suggest modern Japanese and Koreans who carry O1b2 fall under different sub-groups, hinting that they were close but NOT directly related tribes. Various tribes fled the Yangtze Basin from 4,200 to 2,500 years ago due to climate change and war.
@@yo2trader539 "Korean peninsula and Manchuria was too cold to produce rice" Don't you know that the staple food in Korea has been rice for thousands of years? a shoddy study...
This is amazing! I would love to see a video about the Ugric languages (or just Hungarian) in a similar style, but I guess that falls a bit far from your usual content thematically.
Maybe this video tries to convince a proto-Yangtse with Japese . By linking outdated knowledge, he said Austroasiatic homeland is Yangtse river in previous video about SEA. Actually Austroasiatic homeland is much further west, in the Upper Mekong, North India, Tibetan Plateau, Northern Myanmar. So if a proto-Yangtse-Japonic possibly, it should be Austro-Tai along the coast.
One glaring error: There is not a single author who believes the Ryukyuan languages originated in Ryukyu. Internal reconstruction, archaeology and heavy borrowing of Sino-Japanese terms in the 9th century suggest it split off from Mainland Japanese as late as the 6th century, and only settled the Ryukyu Archipelago around the 10th century. See for instance: Thomas Pellard. 2015. The linguistic archeology of the Ryukyu Islands. Sven Osterkamp. 2018. A mokkan Perspective on Some Issues in Japanese Historical Phonology (for the dating of *e to *i and *o to *u vowel raising)
Ah thank you. The Robbeets 2020 paper that I referenced places the Japanese-Ryukyuan split at around 200 BCE, but doesn't say anything about when Ryukyuan speakers actually settled in the Ryukyu Islands; I suppose that actually occurred much later.
No mention of Austronesian? Robbeets still posits that Austronesian influenced Japanic and/or Japonic. That seems important to include and ties the two theories together a bit due to the Austro-Tai relatedness thing. Hashtag glaring omission! -- EDIT (from comment): "In Vovin's 2021 paper Austronesians in Northern Waters he thinks beyond reasonable doubt that there's an Austronesian layer onto Japonic that happened from about the Yayoi to Yamato periods based on comparing Old Japanese poems to mostly Philippine languages as well as some western Malayo-Polynesian and Amis. Core vocabulary and intense contact according to him. There are probably multiple Austronesian links to Japonic through space and time including of recent vintage"
Yes, unfortunately I only read her 2020 and 2021 papers, and was unaware of the 2017 one that elaborated on the possible Japonic-Austronesian connection.
@Parisan 99：If you mean Anatolia when you say turkey, Anatolia has 29 letters. There are 29 letters in a kind of Mongolian ( the successor of ancient Turkic characters,which look like"ᠮᠣᠩᠭᠣᠯ "), and the number of Japanese letters is 25 (there are two ways of writing Japanese letters, a total of 50).
@Parisan 99：For example, there are only five vowels in Japanese, six vowels in Mongolian (my Mongolian textbook says the number of Mongolian vowels is 6, some people say it is 7), and the number of vowels in Anatolia is 8.
유럽에도 비슷한 사례가 있습니다. 브리튼섬의 켈트족이죠. 4세기 게르만족의 침공으로 스코틀랜드 웨일즈 등으로 밀려난 켈트족처럼 고대 한반도의 야요이인들도 북방에서 온 한국어화자들에 의해 학살 축출 동화되어 한반도에서 사라졌고 한반도로부터 축출된 야요이인들이 현대일본인의 직계조상이죠. 켈트족처럼 고대재한야요이인들은 몇몆지명이외에는 아무것도 못남겼죠
Now that is plausible, esp considering the similarity in Japanese-Korean genetics. Then we possibly can compare extreme-north and extreme-south Korean genetics to see if south is more similar to Japanese and to what extent.
@@justinnamuco9096 well they actually collect data from Korean communities in China and Russia who are closest with people to North Korean and their genetic profile not that different from their southern counterparts mean still pretty much closer with Japanese than Manchurian. Not surprised because of back forth migration from North to south and vice versa during three kingdom to Joseon period.
그럼 일본어족(켈트)이 먼저 한반도와 요동 지역에 정착해 살고 있었는데, 이후 한국어족(게르만)이 요동과 한반도 북부를 시작으로 일부가 아름아름 한반도 남부에 건너와 살았고 원래 터전에서 밀려난 일본어족이 이때 일본열도로 대규모 이주를 시작했고, 고조선 멸망 이후 유민들이 남부로 쏟아져 들어오면서 한반도 내 일본어족이 자취를 감추기 시작했다 봐야겠군요.
the situation of the japonic varieties in japan is that the mainstream notion is to call them all dialects with only standard japanese being the supposed real japanese language there, but if some people go by intelligibility, some people consider those in kyushu to not be understandable already that they could be considered different languages but it seems no one denies anymore here if hachijo is different language from the japonic varieties in the japan main home islands
@@xXxSkyViperxXx Seems that the Kyushu dialects are mostly ignored in Japanese anime since when they're talking about a form of Japanese that is not the standard (I guess the one spoken in Tokyo), it's usually the Kansai/Osaka dialect. I am kinda surprised about Hachijo since I didn't think those small islands south of Tokyo spoke a form of Japanese that is different enough from modern standard Japanese to be considered a different language.
@@JcDizon yes, probably because the ones making the anime and mainstream japanese media is the mainstream standard kanto japanese they now majorly use across japan, so all the other ones are marginalized into obscurity. i was surprised before too these existed but the anime, Golden Kamuy, at some point there had a character from Kyushu use the Kyushu "dialect" there (who knows which one). of course, that anime would do that because they cared enough to showcase minority Ainu culture even if they had to throw in more japanese main characters to appeal and be relatable to their expected majority japanese audiences. I read that the history of Hachijo islands was that it was a place they exiled criminals during probably those times that Eastern Old Japanese was still the norm over there, hence they just preserved it enough today, but modern times is now encrouching on them that they are now endangered. of course, these islands are that corner of japan they mustve forgot to try to spoonfeed and conform their mainstream culture of.
Very very cool video! I guess that mainland Japonic-speaking peoples were probably related to Dongyi（東夷，"Eastern Yi"） people mentioned in the historical documents of ancient China based on the info provided by this video. So detailed and comprehensive!👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
夷 does not mean barbarian in Old Chinese, this character is literally a man holding a bow. It did not have the modern implication, it was merely a proper name for people or peoples who lived in and around Shandong.
A big problem with modern researchers when it comes to Chinese language is that they superimpose modern meaning onto ancient names, or understand the name literally instead of seeing them as proper nouns meant to *transliterate* non-sinitic names and titles.
@@larshofler8298 yea i am sorry my understanding is wrong. Yi 夷 is usually considered as a derogatory term in modern Chinese languages but it refers to a fixed group lived in Shandong peninsula and northern Jiangsu at that time, possibly not a discriminatory word. Your viewpoint is more reasonable, so the best translation should be Yi people, a neutral word in Chinese context😂. Thanks for your correction!👍🏻
"we found that modern Japanese as well as Ulchi, Korean, aboriginal Taiwanese, and Philippine populations were genetically closer to F23 [Jomon] than to Han Chinese." from the paper Late Jomon male and female genome sequences from the Funadomari site in Hokkaido, Japan. By Hideaki Kanzawa-Kiriyama et al.
I've read that study and it says that only Taiwan Aborigines and Northern Luzon people show some correlation with Jomon, whereas other Austronesians and other SE Asians tested have no correlation with Jomon. It's much more likely that Taiwan and Northern Luzon people received an additional genetic input from somewhere in the north after the spread and divergence of Austronesian peoples, which explains why only them carry it and not others.
@@weifan9533Or the alternative hypothesis that the Taiwanese actually brought farming to Japan and sailed there before your Yellow River ancestors learnt to crawl?
The only existing Japonic language still spoken other than Japanese is Ryukyuan. All the others went extinct in or before the medieval time, replaced by Korean, Jurchen, Mongolic, etc.
@@larshofler8298 Ryukyuan itself is not a single language group. It is broadly divided into Northern Ryukyuan languages which consist of Amami, Kunigami, Okinawan, and Southern Ryukyuan languages which include Miyakoan, Yaeyama, and Yonaguni. There is also Hachijo language as mentioned in this video, the only remaining descendent of Eastern Old Japanese.
if the continental modern-china origin of proto-japonic is true, i think the dates might accurately follow the existence of dongyi and huai yi states at least as their start of spread and later demise and exit from shandong and huai river basin as per the legends of horai / penglai. the demise of these ancient states below: 大彭 Dapeng (state) (?-1060 BC) 譚國 Tan (state) (1046 BC-684 BC) 萊國 Lai (state) (?-567 BC) 徐國 Xu (state) (?-512 BC) 姑蔑 Gumie (?-480 BC) 莒國 Ju (state) (1046 BC-431 BC) 邹國 Zou (state) (1046 BC-350 BC)
If Vovin accurate, this is why some people says Japanese and Proto austronesian have some similar grammar, since Proto austronesian were originates in Southern Chinal/Minyue around below the one proposed by Vivon were Japanese originated at
My guess is that Japanese is derived from the same ancestor language as Korean, but the split happened so long ago that while both languages are very similar in their grammar, in their vocabulary and phonology they differ substantially. This is not unlike what happened in the Finno-Ugric family when the ancestor of Finnish and the ancestor of Hungarian drifted far enough apart for both languages to be substantially different.
@@yo2trader539 Between Korean and Japanese it's possible for everything to be translated word for word in all but a few cases, Korean and Japanese phonology differ noticeably, but not divergently, and some Korean words are cognate with Japanese ones, so I would say the split was around 4000 years ago. Languages similar to the oldest attested forms of Japanese were spoken on the Korean Peninsula as recently as 1500 years ago, right before the ancestor of Korean began to establish itself all over the Korean Peninsula. Old Japanese established itself on the Japanese Archipelago, largely in isolation from Old Korean, and slowly spread throughout Japan as it evolved into Middle Japanese. As well, it's likely that Old Japanese had phonology similar to Korean, but lost a few vowel and consonant sounds, and strict vowel harmony, as it evolved into Middle Japanese. Hachijô and Kesennuma languages are holdovers from the period before Middle Japanese.
@@hananokuni2580 That's exactly why most linguists identify it as SPRACHBUND rather than stemming from a common proto-language. Figuring out the origins of the Korean language is equally a difficult task. As you know Japanese words almost always end with a vowel (except for Chinese loanwords). Korean is like a fusion of Chinese + Tungusic + Japonic.
고구려는 부여 유민들이 세운 나라고 백제는 고구려 유민들이 세운 나라며 고구려,백제,신라는 서로 말이 통하며 중국과는 언어가 통하지 않아 통역관을 두어야 했다는 자료와 신라또한 남방계가 아닌 고구려와는 다른 북방계 민족으로 사작했다고 배웠는데 틀린건가요? 고대 일본어족이 하나의 방언으로 인식된건지 궁금합니다.
고구려는 동부여인들이 남하하여 기존의 고조선유민들과 연합하여 세운나라. 백제는 고구려인들이 남하하여 기존의 고조선유민,침미다례인들과 연합하여 세운 나라. 신라는 고조선유민들이 남하하여 세운 나라. 모두 예맥인들이 세운 나라이고 말이통하는건 너무 당연한것입니다. 고구려-백제-신라 순으로 일종의 방언 연속체로서 존재했을 가능성이 대단히 높으며 고구려인과 신라인이 소통하기 위해선 백제인을 다리에 놓아야 된다는 기록과도 합치합니다. 한족과 야요인들과는 아예 다른 집단이고 그래서 백제인과 왜인들이 우호적인 관계일지언정 언어는 다르므로 통역이 필요했죠
I have to say I'm much more convinced with the first (newest) theory. Especially a Liao River origin of para-Japonic seems much more likely than a central Yangtze River origin.
The language of the people living in the Yangtze River has many tones. I live in the upper reaches of the Yangtze River. There are five tones in my mother tongue. For people living in the lower reaches of the Yangtze River, their language has eight tones (or nine), but the tone of Japanese is single
@@可爱包-c4v tonogenesis in chinese languages happened later on after antiquities already. the ancient japonic ancestors left that area before the tones developed there. old chinese wasnt tonal before but its when middle chinese came when they started becoming tonal. thats mostly a continental thing too. in peninsular southeast asia, they have tones too. its probably cuz the continent has more conflict for thousands of years and different societies of people later converged into one
@@可爱包-c4v Tones evolved much later. Even Sinitic was not tonal in the beginning. The fact that about 30-40% of Korean and Japanese males carrying O-M176 haplogroup and practicing rice cultivation indicate at least one of their ancestries is from middle Yangzi.
@xXxSkyViperxXx：Tibetan and Burmese also have complex tones, which shows that the complex tones come from an ancient common ancestor. So the history of Han tone may be 10000 years.
One thing that confuses me as a European Australian is how Spanish, German, Greek, Russian, Persian and Hindustani all belong to the one language family but that Japonic and Koreanic are both primary language families.
I don't see how that's hard to understand. In many other places you can find languages that don't belong in the same linguistic family living adjacent to each other. In Europe there is Basque, Turkic and Uralic. There is also the common phenomenon of sprachbund in which different languages share certain traits due to contact. Modern linguistic research shows that Japonic is not genetically related to Korean, but Japonic is related to Buyo languages. Many people in Korea consider Buyo speaking peoples to be ancestral Koreans due to political reasons, but linguistically speaking this is not exactly true. Their connection is unclear.
The fast spreading of Indo-European languages along Eurasia steppe is not a good model for other languages... That is, most other languages don't follow that pattern
Influence versus family :) The similarities between Spanish, German and Greek are actually quite clear (I don't know enough about Persian & Hindustani). It's not just words (predictable sound changes), it's also grammar: -they all have the concept of gender, specifically calling it masculine, feminine, neuter (other language families with gender might have other systems, like Algic in North America where the "gender" is animate & non-animate). Spanish lost most of the neuter (which latin had) -they all have the concept of cases en only the cases that Indo-European had. Spanish lost them (Latin had them). Greek & German lost a few of them. -they all use verb conjugation for person (1st, 2nd, 3rd), tense (present, past, future), number (singular, plural), mood (continuous, conditional, etc). That sounds pretty normal but there are many languages (and language families) that don't have it. -speaking of person, tense, number and mood... It's for all pretty much the same. There are languages with 4 persons, no tenses (chinese for example), more or no number, etc... All these Indo European languages have more or less the same amount (some things were lost in most of them, like the dualis number: "2 of them") I don't know a lot about Japanese or Korean but I was told that the similarities are mostly within the vocabulary of which most actually comes from Chinese. It's like English. If you only look at the vocabulary, you could claim that English is a Romance language since most of the vocab is from French (or Latin). We know however that it is Germanic since we have the older version of it: old English is very much like Dutch & German. Also, we know why modern English looks so French: bloody Normans in 1066! :) ;)
@@larshofler8298 Who knows... Like I said, I don't. What I do know though, is that it is very hard to proof any connection older than, let's say, 5000 years. Yes for some families it is claimed that they go back 10.000 or more years. And maybe they do. Why not? It's just that it is, I believe, almost impossible to proof. In general I am, what they call "a splitter". I don't really believe in super families like Altaic in Asia, Nilo-Saharan in Africa or Macro-Siouan in the Americas. A Sprachbund is far more likely in many cases.
Did you chance upon Vovin's 2021 paper Austronesians in Northern Waters? He said Japonic is linked to Austronesian beyond any reasonable doubt based on comparisons mostly with Philippines as well as some western Malayo-Polynesian and Amis. Core vocab and intense contact coinciding with about the Yayoi to Yamato periods. It seems there are multiple layers of Austronesian in Japonic including of recent vintage.
Vovin is one of the very few linguists that supports such a far-fetched hypothesis, the majority of linguists (especially those who actually work with Austronesian, Tai-Kradai, and other southern languages) don't support it. Hence his words aren't to be taken for granted. Just like the problem with including Japanese into Altaic, there's a lack of cognates between Japanese and Austro-Tai, and also a lack of supporting genetic and archaeological evidence. For now Japanese remains in the Japonic family.
@@weifan9533 As far as I am aware, Vovin never connected Japonic with any other language family genetically, he only suggests that Japonic has loanwords from continental SEA languages, which could lead to the suggestion that Japonic was once spoken close to them.
@@Nastya_07 Yet no archaeological or genetic evidence support the claim that Japanese people originated in South China or SE Asia. If Japonic was once spoken close to those southern languages then you'd expect Japanese people to leave some genetic traces or archaeological evidence there, yet no such evidence has been found up to date. And Vovin isn't known for researches in SE Asian languages either, those linguists that do work with SE Asian languages such as Roger Blench, Weera Ostapirat, and Kosaka have never linked them to Japonic.
@@Nastya_07 I personally speak some Zhuang (a Tai-Kradai language spoken in South China) and it doesn't sound like Japanese at all and its grammar is also completely different from Japanese.
@@weifan9533 As I said, Vovin only suggested that Japanese borrowed a few words from Kra-Dai, he never said that they are part of the same language family. There is evidence for the claim that Southeast Asia was involved in the history of the Japanese, even Robbeets agrees with that idea (though she believes it was contact from Para-Austronesian peoples, as she places the Japanic homeland in Liaoning)
The linguistic evidence for the out of southern China theory is scant. There are about a dozen Japonic words that show resemble to Tai-Kadai. The rest of the argument relies on archeology, which is an entirely different argument outside the expertise of the linguists who are trying to push this theory.
It's more likely the Early Japanese absorbed Tai-Kadai/Austronesian speakers while in Japan from the existence of the Hayato, Kumaso, and Azumi peoples in Early Japanese texts.
@@Innomenatus There is no evidence that the Austronesians settled southern Japan, they didn't even settle all of the Kuril islands and we have evidence of that.
@@g-rexsaurus794 the Kuril islands? You know that's north of Hokkaido, right? And the Kumaso, Azumi, and Hayato are believed to be Austronesian-like due to linguistic and cultural similarities.
what happened to the big patch of japonic languages in manchuria and north korea in the first chart, i find it highly unlikely that a language that spread so far would just dissapear over a couple of decades
The ancient Chosun kingdom which is believed to be the first ethnic origin of Korean(韓) got spread from Manchuria Liao region to North korea around that age. Usually many scholars think that it's because of the war against Chinese Yin kingdom and defeat of Chosun.
Chosun dynasty Korea's first dynasties core territories are in North Korea and Liadong and Manchuria, the Yemaek started there expansion during this time and become prominant tribe in NK, the Japs in the north were probably a minority regime as compared to the more abundant koreanic tribes which caused the fast extinction of the language as compared to in southern Korea were the language is spoken up until the 4th century to the point that Japonic place names got preserved, so i short there were more native Koreans then Japanese in NK then they were in SK which allowed Japonic to flourish.
Team right here. Just hear how old Japanese and the most basic vocabulary sound like, you will immediately realize Japanese's root. Ofc linguistic is not related to genetic in this case, since indigenous people was replaced almost completely.
The emperor of Japan ascended to the throne in 660 BC. The emperor's Y-chromosome DNA is known to be Jomon D1a2. The DNA of the rice-growing people called the Yayoi people is O1b2. The bones of a group that came from Baekje between the 4th and 7th centuries are O2. 40% of the current Japanese Y-chromosome haplogroup is called Jomon, 35% Yayoi, and 20% Kofun.
supply Robbeets, the foundation of the original Japanese language was formed in the northeastern region of China. Although there may have been immigrant tribes from Shandong Shanghai South China participating in the fusion process, there is no doubt that more prehistoric tribes from Northeast China also participated in the formation of this language, which led to the Altaic characteristics of Japanese and the similarity in blood relationship with the Northeast ethnic group.
@@ganggang2537 Very bad example as the Turks and Greeks share very close genetics ties which isn't surprising as modern day Turkiye is the heart of the byzantine empire.
This ambitious classification of Puyo with Japonic and their dominance over Korea and southern Manchuria for so long seem very spurious and non-scientific to be quite honest. I think both theories make very wild and weird claims, to me it makes more sense to just see a migration of Japonic speakers from Southern Manchuria or from the Jiangsu region into Southern Korea and then into Japan.
DNA does not match. Mongolians and Manchus have Haplogroup C (along with 20% of South Koreans). You should listen to Manchu and Mongolian. You could easily tell by the pitch accent that they migrated to Korean peninsula. They merged with native Japonic speakers and created a fusion language.
The emperor of Japan ascended to the throne in 660 BC. The emperor's Y-chromosome DNA is known to be Jomon D1a2. The DNA of the rice-growing people called the Yayoi people is O1b2. The bones of a group that came from Baekje between the 4th and 7th centuries are O2. 40% of the current Japanese Y-chromosome haplogroup is called Jomon, 35% Yayoi, and 20% Kofun.
@@yo2trader539 Only the C2a-L1373 subclade is related to Tungusic and Mongolic peoples, whereas other C subclades have little to no relation to them. The indigenous Hoabinhian peoples of South China and SE Asia carry haplogroup C subclades as well, namely C1b-B65 and C1b-B68, and they have nothing to do with Mongols and Manchus.
Can it explain why Japanese sounds like Shanghai or Zhejiang dialect? Or maybe they just using similar pronunciation via Kanzi? Like today Japanese using a lot English terms
I wonder too. Some Wu dialects do sound a little Japanese-ish, though I don't think there is significant connection. And other southern Sinitic varieties doesn't have that "Japanese-ness". I do think the pronunciation of Wu might have been influenced by pre-Sinitic Kra-Dai or even para - Austronesian that used to live in that region.
On the other hand, it seems trading and pirating across East China Sea was quite common, there was quite some maritime traffic between coastal Wu region, southern Korea and southern Japan. So who knows?
I don't think the similarities between Japanese and Wu dialects have any connection to the theories presented in this video.Actually Japanese has a Kanji reading category called Go-On (吴音)-literally "Wu sounds".Wu pronunciations of Kanjis were borrowed since around 400-700 AD.
the sino-xenic chinese loans into japanese that japanese evolved in later centuries are the ones that are like those in southern chinese languages. the native japanese terms are completely different. japanese today calls the chinese loans as on'yomi, sound readings (meaning they say them as they heard them long ago from china), then kun'yomi, meaning readings (meaning they say the native term they always meant that was theirs before but just use kanji (chinese characters) and kana now to conveniently express those too)
Maybe because Shanghainese is a pitch accent language like Japanese, and not a fully tonal language like other Chinese varieties? Other than the basic melody I don't think the phonologies are very similar, Shanghainese has a ton of vowels for example and Japanese has the standard 5 vowels.
Love the side-by-side comparison. If I may add, genetic evidence points to a patrilineal line based in the South (Y-DNA haplogroup O1b2), but whole genome sequencing says the Japanese and Koreans today are more northern-shifted. There are also other Y-DNA haplogroups that got introduced into the Japanese & Korean populations. MtDNAs are much more diverse. Linguistic evidence, on the other hand, does not yet support the Japanese-Korean relationship, but instead points to an early contact between the two. It may be that the O1b2 line of Japanese and Koreans indeed started off from the south, along the Yangtze, moving east to the coast and then making their way into Northeastern China where they heavily intermixed with the various unrelated "Altaic" people, resulting in the superficial similarity we see today. We're not too sure about the beginning part, but the next part is more clear: We know that the early people whom we refer to as the Mumuns moved into the Korean Peninsula and then became the Yayoi of Japan. The Mumuns that stayed behind in Korea got taken over and assimilated by a northern nomadic tribe that possibly introduced the Koreanic tongue to them. Meanwhile, the Yayoi intermixed with the Jomon on the archipelago, until they both got overwhelmed by the Kofun settlers from the Yellow River in northern China, which a Japanese study confirmed in 2021 to be the ancestors of modern Japanese (making up 70% of their ancestry).
On a separate note, Vovin does not actually dispute the "Transurasian" contact. What he and many other linguists disagree on is the theory that posits the Transurasian link as a language family, instead of a sprachbund, and also the naming of this group of languages as it's conflating with the now largely-obsolete "Altaic" theory.
Seafaring migration was extremely small in size and were generally absorbed into local languages. There is no evidence to suggest what type of languages O1b2 people spoke. Also what you call Kofun people, Haplogroup O2 people--i.e. Northern Chinese who lived on the Korean peninsula and migrated to Japan during 4-7th century during centuries of chaos--make less than 20% of modern Japanese.
@@yo2trader539 "We find that most of the ancient or modern populations in our dataset are significantly closer to the Kofun than they are to the Yayoi. This finding implies additional migration to the archipelago during the six centuries that separates the genomes from these two periods." "We then explore the possibility that the continental ancestry observed in both the Yayoi and Kofun periods derives from the same source, with intermediate levels of Northeast and East Asian ancestry (table S12). Only one candidate was found to better fit a two-way mixture for Kofun, a population of the Late Bronze Age and Iron Age individuals from the Yellow River basin (YR_LBIA) (20), although this was not consistent across the reference sets (nested, P = 0.100; table S13)."
@@yo2trader539 Look up "Ancient genomics reveals tripartite origins of Japanese populations" (2021) on NCBI and Science. Note that geneticists today look at genome-wide autosomal affinities instead of just their Y-DNA haplogroups.
@@auburntiger6829 How do people in the Kofun era conclude that they are O2 group? First, you guys were not even on the Korean Peninsula in that era. I know who the Chinese are. Listen to what Chinese descent says. Wu Tae, the founder of Baekje, is a Chinese, and Jumong is a descendant of the Yellow emperor because he writes the same Chinese characters as the Chinese Ko clan. (However, “Ko" means “high” and is a Hanja that was commonly used in all Eastern civilizations.) Japan is a country made by Qin Emperor's order, and at the same time, the Japanese Emperor is a descendant of the Yue. Silla is also a descendant of the Qin Dynasty and a descendant of Soho, China. It's not just a fake lie in ancient times. It's like that in modern times, too. You Chinese descendant says.. Xiongnu is a descendant of King Zhou, and Western Xia is a descendant of ancient Xia 2,000 years ago. The Manchurians are descendants of Song’s General. Yup and Wu during the Warring States period were brothers and were not Chinese. However, it claims to be the ancient Zhou descendant. There is no consistency because all of the Chinese's history were described for the purpose. Truth was not always important to Chinese. For you, history has always been just a means, not an end. How satisfied will the Chinese be with the outside world through fabrication with themselves? And you Chinese desentdant people claim that you are a descendant of the Baiyue people in Vietnam. In Korea, Chinese people claim that they are descendants of Gojoseon, and that the northeastern part of China is the origin of Koreans. From the Japanese's point of view, Chinese people, who were not originally Koreans, swallowed the Korean Peninsula, claimed to be Joseon people, immigrated to Japan after the annexation of Korea, and copied the Japanese, and claimed that the “origin of the Japanese was Joseon”. Wouldn't that naturally lead to disgust and fear? Westerners should stop believing in Chinese records. Of course, there are vain stories in civilizations around China, but this is only a limitation because it is a story of the mythical era of the country, and it does not intentionally lie and propaganda like China. Robert's hypothesis accepted the intended fabrication of more Chinese than Bobbin's. Therefore, the Chinese cheer and the non-Chinese do not believe in the West, which is controlled by the Chinese. The reason why Eastern civilization is insidious and reluctant is because of the mental state of these Chinese people. Their spirituality consists of lies and fabrication only for their people. Isn't it natural for Chinese civilization to fall behind in the West? There is a clear difference between the pagoda built on the truth and the pagoda built on the falsehood. Your Chinese civilization repeats division-unification without help to mankind. You are a mass of cancer cells that assimilate and swallow the surrounding ethnic to maintain life. The Xiongnu, Jie, Qiang, Di, Xianbei, Kitan, Mongol, Manchu apparently existed, but now they are all absorbed or declining by China. If other countries and ethnic groups are normal cells that contribute to the good faith of mankind, it is clear that you are abnormal cancer cells. For the dignity of mankind as a whole and the soul of mankind, China's spirit must be removed. So, did you Chinese people want to spread cancer cells to Japan because they are not enough to the peninsula? If Chinese were a real brother, they would want each other's success apart, not try to stick to lies like you.
I believe Proto-Japonic language was a common language from southeast China, southern Korean peninsula, and Japanese islands since before ice age. Before ice age those lands are connected and it is natural that the languages in three regions are similar. Probably Jomon was also derived from Proto-Japanic. Koreanic and Sintic came from north (Siberia) and west. 아마도 일본조어가 중국 동남부, 한반도 남부, 일본 열도에서 빙하기 전부터 공통 언어였던거같음. 빙하기 전에는 이 땅들이 연결돼었었고 여기서 쓰였던 언어들이 비슷했을거임. 조몬어도 크게 보면 일본조어에 속했을 수도 있음. 한국어랑 중국어는 북쪽 시베리아나 서쪽에서 왔을거임.
오히려 빙하기때 언어들이 고립화되어서 갈라졌다고 보는게 맞는것같습니다 한국어가 시베리아지역에서 고시베리아어족과의 분열 그리고 고립화하여 독자적인 어족을 형성했다고 보는것도 나름 가능성있죠 다만 , 일본어는 루트부터가 의문이라 고립화하기전엔 어느 어족이었는지 확답을 못하겠네요
So The Pre-Proto Japonic speakers carrying the O1B2 gene started out in modern-day Jiangsu as the Magabyeong culture from 5000-3300BC and interacted with the Proto-Austro-Tai Hamodo speakers, replacing almost all of their Para-Austroasiatic, or Boreoasiatic vocabulary with proto-austro-tai. They migrated to Shandong as the Daemungu culture starting in 4000 BC before finally using their Austronesian sailing tech to sail to Liaoning finally as the Mumun to interbreeding with the Jeulmun before the Proto-Koreans invaded, interbred genetically and linguistically, and eventually became the Jin and the Yayoi?
This is The Japonic Language at The High School Level! You are right! The Japanese has Sino-Tibetan Origin and The Japanese are a mix of Sino-Tibetans with Altaico-Uralics, they Came from China as all The Sino-Tibetan Tribes, Mixed with Altaico-Uralics and Came to Peninsula and their Emperor, Jimmu, settled into an Arhipelage. All, The Emperor Jimmu spoke Japanese Language, Who is Unique, and founded Japan. The Japanese unified all The Arhipelage with Islands, but they lost The Peninsula to The Koreeans, Who are Sino-Tibetan too, but coming from China, mixing with Altaico-Uralics, but forming Koreean Language and People in The New Peninsula. The Japanese listened The God Father, and managed assimilating and unifying all The Peninsula and avoiding The Mongol Invasion. They assimilated all The Ainu People by Japanization, and Became a Great Power Empire in Asia. Thank you so much, very much for Diverting and The Theory!
@@xe5309, thank you so much, very much! You are right, but you see, Chinese, Koreanic and Japonics, alls are from China. Whille Chinese remained in China and unified all The China by their hands, The Japonics were mixed with The Altaico-Uralics Who Came over them. They Formed The Japanese People. The Japanese Conquered all The Peninsula and left completely The China. The Japanese had The problems and with The Koreans Who is Formed by The mixing The Koreanics with The Altaico-Uralics and then, formed the Koreeans. The Japanese, under Emperor Jimmu, founded in The Japanese Arhipelage The Modern Day Japan. The Emperor Jimmu founded Japan in The Arhipelage named Nippon Kongu, The Land of The Rising Sun. The Ainu were mixed with The Japanese and by The Japonic and Ainu formed The Japanese People in The Arhipelage. The Japanese unified all The Arhipelage by assimilating all The Ainus and Formed in all The Unified Arhipelage a New Empire. The Koreanics assimilated The Peninsular Japonics and Formed The Korean People. They remained in The Peninsula, now, The Koreean Peninsula.
Until BC, people in Shandong Province spoke Korean. Around 2000 BC, northern nomadic barbarians (Chinese) came from the northwest and ruled the Yellow River basin, and ethnic migrations began.
Robbeets Unheirmait is more accurate and matching with Japanese genetics profile who mostly northeast asian rather than southeast asian. But Vovin have more accurate classification.
Pastor Arimasa Kubo said, (Part 2. of 1-2) Time of Separation of Haplogroups D and E Second question: about the time when haplogroup DE was separated to D and E. Generally, geneticists say that D and E were separated in the Middle East about 50 or 60 thousand years ago. However, it was about 2700 years ago when the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel were exiled from the land of Israel. You may think that there is a big time difference. But this "50-60 thousand years ago" is not an actual measured value, but an estimated value based on the evolution theory. Since this is an estimated one, the value has been changing widely. And today, the big values based on the evolution theory have in fact lost its credibility. When an evolutionist says it was 60 thousand years ago, mostly it was actually several thousand years ago. Because, there is a chronological measurement method using Carbon-14, which accuracy is clear by comparing with archeological materials of known age. When measuring materials that evolutionists say 50-60 thousand years ago, with using the Carbon-14 method, only the result of several thousand years comes out. You many say "That should not happen." But this is true. There is a dispute on it between evolutionists and scientific creationists. For example, measuring bones of Neanderthal man, which evolutionists say several hundred thousand years ago, the Carbon-14 method shows only several thousand years. So does the case of Cro-Magnon man, which evolutionists say several tens thousand years. Scientific creationists explain such things. Haplogroups D and E must have been actually separated about several thousand years ago. Why Shinlung Tribe Do Not have D, E, or J? Lastly, In north India and Myanmar live a tribe called Shinlung (Menashe). They are Asians who have similar faces like the Japanese, but have ever had ancient Israeli culture and tradition. Amishav, a Jewish search group of the Lost Tribes of Israel, recognized that the Shinlung people are descendants of ancient Israelites. The Shinlung people re-learned Judaism, and it is famous that more than 1000 Shinlung people already returned to Israel, now living as Jews. However, their DNA test result was unexpected. Their Y-chromosome was not haplogroup E or D, even not haplogroup J or CMH. Most of them are haplogroup K or O, which is typical for Asians. However, scientists also investigated Mitochondria DNA, which shows the maternal DNA information, while Y-chromosome DNA shows the paternal DNA. The result showed a close relationship with Jews of the Middle East and Uzbek. But why did the paternal Y-chromosome DNA show only the connection with Asians? We can know it if we study the history of Shinlung. When they had wandered about in China in old times, they were ruled by other nations who made them slaves. They became slaves and never came back to their villages. Their women were often raped. So, the children who were born there had not the Y-chromosome of Shinlung, but the ones of the Chinese. Furthermore in China, men of a conquered nation were often all killed. That was why the paternal Y-chromosome DNA was hard to remain. When a nation had a hard history, Y-chromosome was hard to remain. Sometimes it even disappears. It tells such a sad story of the Shinlung tribe that their paternal Y-chromosome did not have haplogroup D or E, and only their maternal Mitochondria DNA showed a close relationship with Jews. Thinking of this, the fact that nearly 40% of the Japanese have haplogroup D and YAP is remarkable. It tells a strong connection with current Jews and ancient Israelites.
A sad truth is that we could never conclude how Japonic language was established. Most of East Asian languages disappeared and were assimilated by Chinese, and what we have now is only Japanese, Korean and perhaps Manchurian. If only were there another living language in North East Asia, we might be able to make relationships or a language family of NEA languages.
However, the DNA of the ethnic groups that are the origin of the Chinese language and live in the middle reaches of the Yellow River has almost completely changed to northern origins (Mongolia, Tungus, Turkey, and Central Asia). It shows that the ancient Han people migrated south.
I always thought Japanese and Korean grammar was very similar. Would make sense if they had the same origin. However it feels mysterious that the two languages' pronounciation of words are so far from each other.
@@kimurahundoshi4485Grammar but not vocabulary, lols, could be just a result of sprachbound or influence with each other after all modern South Korea was Japonic speaking until the Northern half of Korea, Koreanized it during the ancient times it wasn't instant it was a slow and painstaking process, so it was probably due to long contact with each other but not because of ancestry this would both explain the similarity but also the huge difference in words and phonology.
Some believe that the origin of one of Japan’s four alphabets, Katakana, is ancient Hebrew Japanese uses multiple syllabary (alphabets) and has a special phonetic alphabet for foreign words: katakana, which has helped it manage the impact of foreign words entering its language. It is used for loanwords that enter the Japanese language, such as beer. The other alphabets used are Kanji, Hiragana and Romaji. Some believe that katakana’s origins are ancient Hebrew as there is some similarity between some of the letters, which are also pronounced in a similar manner, such as the letter Ka and Kaph for instance. These similarities are often cited as evidence by proponents of the theory that one of the lost 10 tribes of Israel ended up in Japan. Books have been published in English on the topic and Japanese television programmes have also explored the subject. However, most academics believe that katakana is in fact based on Kanji (Chinese characters) and was developed over a thousand years ago in Japan’s Heian Period (794-1185) by Japanese monks to annotate Chinese texts - mostly Buddhist texts; so they could be read by Japanese readers. The alphabet subsequently became used for non-Chinese loanwords as Japan became exposed to other countries, languages and cultures. The so-called lost tribes of Israel reportedly started leaving and disappearing from Israel following the conquest of its northern kingdom by the Assyrians in 721 BCE.
i feel like id go with the migration path idea of the right one but go with the japonic languages classification of the left one. eh well i independently guessed the same migration path idea of the right one many years ago
Please do AINU Language in JAPAN What languages do the Ainu speak? Image result for ainu language Due to the intermarriage between Japanese and Ainu people, the number of pure blood type Ainu people is very small. There are three main dialects of the Ainu language; Hokkaido-dialect, Sakhalin-dialect, and Kurile-dialect. What language is spoken in Kuril Islands? Are the Kuril islands part of Japan? The Kuril Islands or Kurile Islands is a volcanic archipelago part of Sakhalin Oblast in the Russian Far East. ... Kuril Islands. Disputed islands Native name: Курильские острова 千島列島 Kuril Ainu or Kuril, is an extinct and poorly attested Ainu language of the Kuril Islands, now part of Russia. The main inhabited islands were Kunashir, Iturup and Urup in the south, and Shumshu in the north. Other islands either had small populations (such as Paramushir) or were visited for fishing or hunting. There may have been a small mixed Kuril-Itelmen population at the southern tip of the Kamchatka Peninsula. The Ainu of the Kurils appear to have been a relatively recent expansion from Hokkaidō, displacing an indigenous Okhotsk culture, which may have been related to the modern Itelmens. When the Kuril Islands passed to Japanese control in 1875, many of the northern Kuril Ainu evacuated to Ust-Bolsheretsky District in Kamchatka, where about 100 still live. In the decades after the islands passed to Soviet control in 1945, most of the remaining southern Kuril Ainu evacuated to Hokkaidō, where they have since been assimilated. (en) Kuril Ainu or Kuril, is an extinct and poorly attested Ainu language of the Kuril Islands, now part of Russia. The main inhabited islands were Kunashir, Iturup and Urup in the south, and Shumshu in the north. Other islands either had small populations (such as Paramushir) or were visited for fishing or hunting. There may have been a small mixed Kuril-Itelmen population at the southern tip of the Kamchatka Peninsula. The Ainu of the Kurils appear to have been a relatively recent expansion from Hokkaidō, displacing an indigenous Okhotsk culture, which may have been related to the modern Itelmens. When the Kuril Islands passed to Japanese control in 1875, many of the northern Kuril Ainu evacuated to Ust-Bolsheretsky District in Kamchatka, where about 100 still live. In the decades after the islands passed to Soviet control in 1945, most of the remaining southern Kuril Ainu evacuated to Hokkaidō, where they have since been assimilated.
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According to Pellard (2015), Ryukyuan and Japanese split in the 1st century near the end of the Yayoi period, and Ryukyuan did not start settling the Ryukyu Islands until the 10th century, with some Ryukyuan speakers remaining in Kyushu up until the 12th century. Please keep that in mind as this hypothesis is not included in the video.
펠러드 (2015)에 의하면 류큐어군과 일본어군은 야요이 시대 말미 1세기 무렵에 갈라졌고, 류큐어는 10세기에야 류큐 열도에 진입하기 시작했다고 합니다. 또한 12세기까지도 류큐어 화자들이 규슈 남부에 잔류했다는 주장입니다. 본 영상에는 포함되지 않은 가설이니 참고해주시기 바랍니다.
All are conjectures. Is there any DNA archaeogenetic research on human samples from these places to prove those theories plausible?
I support this theory
Agricultural society in Amami and Okinawa started in the 11th century
@@cudanmang_theog Even today people of Southern Kyushu, Amami Islands, and Okinawa Islands have higher Y-DNA Haplogroup D admixture. Oldest human remains in Japan (from around 15,000 to 20,000 years ago) are mostly found in Okinawa and are generally consistent with Haplogroup D. That is why I suspect Japonic languages have spoken in Japan from the Jomon period.
I have an idea for language colors of the families Africa and Eurasia
Afroasiatic (ff0000)
Trans-New-Guinea (ff5500)
Niger-Congo (ffaa00)
Uralo-Yukaghir? (I reject language contact between those two groups) (ffff00)
Sino-Dene? (Dene-Yeniseian and Sino-Tibetan) (aaff00)
Algonqian-Wakashan? (also includes Chukotko-Kamchatkan-Amuric) (54ff00)
Inuit-Yupik-Unangan (00ff00)
Austronesian (00ff55)
Altaic? (you reject it) (00ffa9)
Nilo-Saharan? (00ffff)
Indo-European (00a9ff)
Austroasiatic (0055ff)
Japonic (0000ff)
Dravidian (5400ff)
North Caucasian (aa00ff)
Kartvelian (ff00ff)
Hmong-Mien (ff0055)
Koreanic (00007f)
Update: I've added more languages from america and added colors based on their time (colors in hue, subdivisions based on saturation)
Afroasiatic: 0
*Semitic: 100
*Egyptian: 83
*Chadic: 67
*Cushitic: 50
*Chadic: 33
*Omotic: 17
Macro-Chibcan: 15
Trans-New-Guinea: 30
Niger-Congo: 45
*Bantu: 50
Je-Tupi-Carib: 60
*Cariban: 100
*Tupi: 67
*Macro-Je: 33
Uralo-Siberian?: 75
*Uralo-Yukaghir: 100
*Inuit-Yupik-Unangan: 50
Altaic?: 90
*Japonic: 100
*Korean: 80
*Turkic: 60
*Mongolic: 40
*Tungusic: 20
Algonquian-Wakashan?: 105
*Nivkh-Kamchukotko-Algic?: 100
*Mosan?: 50
Sino-Dené?: 120
*Sino-Tibetan: 100
*Dené-Yeniseian: 50
Penutian?: 135
Hokan?: 150
Oto-Manguean: 165
Indo-European: 180
*Anatolian: 100
*Tocharian: 90
*Germanic: 80
*Italic: 80
*Celtic: 70
*Armenian: 60
*Balto-Slavic: 50
*Hellenic: 40
*Indo-Iranian: 30
Austronesian: 195
*Austronesian proper: 100
*Kra-Dai: 50
Macro-Siouan?: 210
Quechuamaran: 225
*Aymara: 100
*Quechua: 50
Dravidian: 240
Macro-Mayan?: 255
*Totozquean: 100
*Mayan: 50
North Caucasian: 270
*Northwest Caucasian: 100
*North Caucasian: 50
Austroasiatic: 285
Pama-Nyungan: 300
Aztec-Tanoan: 315
Kartvelian: 330
Hmong-Mien: 345
Other "Amerind": Light gray
Isolate: gray
Finally a language mapper who takes into account more than one theory and explains the debate around the origins of these peoples.
+1 sub
Thank you for presenting two diverging theories side by side.
Another fake card from a Korean.
@@egortimofeev3509 what
@@egortimofeev3509 Martine Robbeets is Belgian and Alexander Vovin is Russian American. What?
@@greathistorymapper Everyone loves Korean money.
Those more than Vovin who, almost every year, change their theories to the opposite ones.
@@egortimofeev3509 you do know what theory means right?
What a great video! As we say in the very far southwest corner of the map, "arāgu fugarasā!"
As a scholar of the languages of Yonaguni and the Yaeyama islands, I've had the pleasure of meeting all three of the authors whose works are used as the basis for this video, and have enjoyed reading all their work.
If I may make one criticism: the Okinawan islands should be shown in an inset so that we can see when each island started speaking which language. The green and yellow areas are just too small to see.
Hello! I'm very interested in Ryukyuan linguistics and I was curious if I could be directed to any good literature on the subject. I am also curious if you would be able to talk about how you were able to become a scholar of these languages. Thank you so much!
I always love learning about this prehistoric stuff, there's just so much to be uncovered, or to be never uncovered
so much is lost :husk:
@@plant5875 Yet so much to discover!
@@limeliciousmapping4652 :)
Vovin's theory makes more sense, Robetees theory is still largely based on beckwith's theory which has been rejected by many linguists.
Especially considering that they use place names of all sources to base their understanding of ancient languages. Place names are very conservative, hell, tons of English place names are of Celtic origin.
There are better sources to use to base languages than place names, all place names do is to suggest at least some sort of substrate and at least the types of people that originally resided in the places.
Yeah. Robetees is not a competent linguist. If you read his paper deeply, you can see that he claims that hypothesis, ignoring many archaeological facts. Vovin and Whitman's hypothesis is much more convincing..
@@emiliofermi9994 not for me
not for me
@@adnan_honest_jihadist5775 just you
everyone prefer vovin
Kudos on presenting 2 views! I have not see this done here before! I applaud!
Both match the adh1b gene distribution (rs1229984 exactly and also rs3811801). And also places where raw fish was/is eaten. Kuahuqiao and Shangshan are ancient Austronesian (Kra-Dai relation) cultures whose artifacts had suns on them which might indicate sun worship. They were the first to cultivate rice and so maybe it could've been related to a harvest ritual idk
Austroasiatic and Austronesian both have the and infixes (as well as the prefix etc.). The presence of infixes of identical form and similar semantics was one of the main arguments for the Austric hypothesis. In fact, I know of Filipinos who can understand words in Khmer with these affixes if they know the root words' meaning. Such a feature seems to be indicative of a common ancestor rather than borrowing especially for the infixes which are rare in linguistics.
Wow, I absolutely loved this!
Your style is honestly one of the best ones I've seen. It's so soothing and comfortable to look at. You're definitely an extremely underrated mapper in my opinion, you deserve so much more attention for your great work!
Keep it coming, looking forwards to what you have in store next! :D
Wow! What a splendid masterpiece! Now I'm so hyped for your next language videos!
역사룡님께선 로비츠의 가설을 지지하지 않는다고 하셨죠. 그럼에도 시청자들의 요구와 편의를 위해 자신이 지지하지 않는 가설까지 함께 다루며 비교하는 영상을 제작하신 것 정말 대단하십니다 ㅎㅎ
ok_right
동의하든 안하든 정당한 가설은 ㅏㄹ려져야 마땅하죠
It’s hard to confirm where Japonic languages is originated. Japonic languages show multiple layers of vocabulary sharing with Ainu, Korean, Tungusic, Mongolic, Old Chinese, Kra-Dai, Austroasiatic and Austronesian. I have records of possible cognates. I’ve read some Vovin’s works that pointed out the origin of Japonic in southern China which is close to Austroasiatic and Kra-Dai origins. Vovin listed various Japonic roots which possibly related to Kra-Dai and he believe that Japonic might have been monosyllabic, isolating language and have SVO syntax.
Examples of Japonic monosyllabic words in Vovin’s work:
leaf *pa (Tai *ʔbaï)
side *pia (Tai * ʔbïaŋ)
wife *mia (Tai *mia)
long *nan-ka (Tai *na:n)
mountain *wo (Tai *buo)
house *ya (Tai *ʔjau)
door *to (Tai *tu)
inside *na-ka (Tai *naï)
In Malay
Side: tepi .
Door:pintu.
Hill/small mountain :gon.(kedah malay /pelat utagha)
Japonic has some kind of Austronesian substratum and "Altaic" roots if you believe in that
@Kerimcanak what the fuck is wrong?
In addition, his 2021 paper Austronesians in Northern Waters places another layer of Austronesian about around the Yayoi to Yamato periods. Core vocabulary and intense contact based on comparisons using Old Japanese poems with mostly Philippine languages as well as some western Malayo-Polynesian and Amis. Core vocab and intense contact according to him
@@lexxiii3 i dont know much of history of languages, but isnt possible the austranesian elements be from populations of the islans prior to japanese migrations? i said that becuse native americans also share the sun worship and we know some populations of japan crossed to america in the ice age. And aslo some native americans share a few similar words to those from austranesians.
I really dont know much so i may be wrong, just wondering.
정말 영상의 퀄리티에 한번 놀라고, 또 전에는 알지 못했던 학설들과 가설들을 알게 되어 저는 너무 행복합니다
Remember that Japanese people didn't even exist at those times, so japonic is not a thing. If anything Japanese is a Buyeo North Korean language. How can a language even exist before the identity of the people who speak the language? It's just another feeble try at claiming history that's not theirs. Korean identity has been a thing since ancient times, we are people who originated in Siberia by lake Baikal, so to say japonic is even a language family is preposterous! As a Korean we should be very vocal about this and stop humoring the Japanese, a people who fancy themselves as special and above Koreans. They are not. They covet our identity and try so hard to claim it. Even this claim that tamna people spoke a japonic language is hilarious yet offensive!
Congratulations on your 100th video! And its astonishing how you depicted the history of the same thing by 2 different theories. Mindblowing!
Awesome video! Can't wait for other language stuff!
I really appreciate that the creator included lesser known theories but not his execution. Like why pick and choose, and exclude. Why make it either-or instead of presenting both or all sides?
There is a very strong presence of the D haplogroup on the Japanese islands (especially with the Ainus of Hokkaido) maybe this show that the Whitman and Vovin hypothesis is more plausible as it shows that Proto-japanase originated in central China near Tibet, and today we know that Tibet with Japan have are the places where the Haplogroup D is the most common in Asia.
Anyway I love this chanel, it's incredibly detailed and very well done, keep it up !!
The D haplogroup is mostly because of the Ainus who thousands of years ago used to inhabit Japan, Manchuria, Korea, Mongolia and Tibet but got removed due to other haplogroups migrating
wrong.
@@dormant3456 Actually, 40% of Japanese male carry Haplogroup D. All Japanese have some admixture of Jomon DNA. Ainu too are one of off-springs of the Jomon people. Jomon folks in Karafuto, Chishima, and Hokkaido mixed with Okhotsk people and developed their unique fusion culture around 12-13th century. After Ainu, the highest Halpo D admixture is found in Okinawa, Tohoku region, Southern Kyushu, Izumo etc.
@@yo2trader539 true
@@yo2trader539 표본이 너무적은 정치적인 자료 입니다.
The Shandong Peninsula was an island during the Neolithic and Early Bronze Ages.
Nice! Hopefully you could also make this comparison with the Koreanic languages as well.
just_stupid_theory_
Korean I thought was Altaic
@@carbonulegeliberiusoftheca1192 even if korea is altaic, that doesn't mean it doesn't have it's own evolutionary path
@@carbonulegeliberiusoftheca1192 Korean is not Altaic.
@@emiliofermi9994 I must be reading wrong things then
What if Korean and japanese peoples did not originate from one of these theories, but both? It would make sense genetically. I think that you should start including genetic data into your map-making, whether y-dna, mitochondrial or autosomal DNA.
These two theories oppose each other in many details, like what?
@@fearmor3855 I have seen research showing that the main migration and linguistic influence came from the north but migration from the yangtze delta brought agricultural and material culture, leaving a significant print on Kyushu.
Genetic evidence points to a patrilineal line based in the South (Y-DNA haplogroup O1b2), but whole genome sequencing says the Japanese and Koreans today are more northern-shifted. There are also other Y-DNA haplogroups that got introduced into the Japanese & Korean populations. Linguistic evidence, on the other hand, does not yet support the Japanese-Korean relationship, but instead point to an early contact between the two. It may be that the O1b2 line of Japanese and Koreans indeed started off from the south, along the Yangtze, moving east to the coast and then making their way into Northeastern China where they heavily intermixed with the various unrelated "Altaic" people, resulting in the superficial similarity we see today.
We're not too sure about the beginning part, but the next part is more clear: We know that the early people whom we refer to as the Mumuns moved into the Korean Peninsula and then became the Yayoi of Japan. The Mumuns that stayed behind in Korea got taken over and assimilated by a northern nomadic tribe that introduced the Koreanic tongue to them. Meanwhile, the Yayoi intermixed with the Jomon on the archipelago, until they both got overwhelmed by the Kofun settlers from the Yellow River in northern China, which a Japanese study confirmed in 2021 to be the ancestors of modern Japanese (making up 70% of their ancestry).
@@auburntiger6829 To the contrary, analysis on rice DNA indicates Japan and the Korean peninsula have grown different strains and have no connection. As such, some scholars believe that hydroponic rice came directly to Japan from Southern China near the Yangtze Basin (along with the people who produced it). Most of Korean peninsula and Manchuria was too cold to produce rice, so a northern route doesn't make sense.
Additionally, there are a number of sub-groups within O1b2 and deeper genetic studies suggest modern Japanese and Koreans who carry O1b2 fall under different sub-groups, hinting that they were close but NOT directly related tribes. Various tribes fled the Yangtze Basin from 4,200 to 2,500 years ago due to climate change and war.
@@yo2trader539 "Korean peninsula and Manchuria was too cold to produce rice"
Don't you know that the staple food in Korea has been rice for thousands of years? a shoddy study...
Lovely video! I hope to see more videos on language families.
This is amazing! I would love to see a video about the Ugric languages (or just Hungarian) in a similar style, but I guess that falls a bit far from your usual content thematically.
Wait didn’t he do one? That’s actually the first one that I saw..
@@mudshovel289 You might be thinking about Costas Melas' video.
@@fehervari98 ah, you are right. Sorry, very similar video style.
Robbeets 연구는 깊게 파보면 파볼수록 다수의 고고학적 증거를 무시한 끼워맞추기식 연구에 불과합니다. 요하지역의 역사적 중요성을 전면화했다는 것 외에는 그 세부 연대나 역사적 집단의 분화를 작위적으로 배정하고 있어 인용할 가치가 있다고 보기 어렵습니다.
ㅇㅈ증거들이랑 안맞는게 너무많음
I just found out that Vovin died earlier this month. RIP to such a great linguist.
I actually just found out from your comment. That's incredibly disheartening. May he rest in peace.
もっと、ボビンは注目されるべきだったな。あんまり、日本のメディアには登場しなかったし。
Do you mean Alexander Vovin?
@@lexxiii3 yes
Maybe this video tries to convince a proto-Yangtse with Japese . By linking outdated knowledge, he said Austroasiatic homeland is Yangtse river in previous video about SEA. Actually Austroasiatic homeland is much further west, in the Upper Mekong, North India, Tibetan Plateau, Northern Myanmar. So if a proto-Yangtse-Japonic possibly, it should be Austro-Tai along the coast.
One glaring error: There is not a single author who believes the Ryukyuan languages originated in Ryukyu. Internal reconstruction, archaeology and heavy borrowing of Sino-Japanese terms in the 9th century suggest it split off from Mainland Japanese as late as the 6th century, and only settled the Ryukyu Archipelago around the 10th century. See for instance: Thomas Pellard. 2015. The linguistic archeology of the Ryukyu Islands. Sven Osterkamp. 2018. A mokkan Perspective on Some Issues in Japanese
Historical Phonology (for the dating of *e to *i and *o to *u vowel raising)
Ah thank you. The Robbeets 2020 paper that I referenced places the Japanese-Ryukyuan split at around 200 BCE, but doesn't say anything about when Ryukyuan speakers actually settled in the Ryukyu Islands; I suppose that actually occurred much later.
There is no evidence for such claim because there are no written records even hinting what type of languages were spoken 2,000 years ago in Okinawa.
@@yo2trader539 There's 0 evidence that Yayoi originated from South China / SE Asia.
No mention of Austronesian? Robbeets still posits that Austronesian influenced Japanic and/or Japonic. That seems important to include and ties the two theories together a bit due to the Austro-Tai relatedness thing. Hashtag glaring omission!
-- EDIT (from comment): "In Vovin's 2021 paper Austronesians in Northern Waters he thinks beyond reasonable doubt that there's an Austronesian layer onto Japonic that happened from about the Yayoi to Yamato periods based on comparing Old Japanese poems to mostly Philippine languages as well as some western Malayo-Polynesian and Amis. Core vocabulary and intense contact according to him. There are probably multiple Austronesian links to Japonic through space and time including of recent vintage"
Yes, unfortunately I only read her 2020 and 2021 papers, and was unaware of the 2017 one that elaborated on the possible Japonic-Austronesian connection.
I agree with you ， the number of Japanese syllable is very small, this is the characteristic of the island language.
@@可爱包-c4v Turkish languages are syllabic too but they're not austronesian
@Parisan 99：If you mean Anatolia when you say turkey, Anatolia has 29 letters. There are 29 letters in a kind of Mongolian ( the successor of ancient Turkic characters,which look like"ᠮᠣᠩᠭᠣᠯ "), and the number of Japanese letters is 25 (there are two ways of writing Japanese letters, a total of 50).
@Parisan 99：For example, there are only five vowels in Japanese, six vowels in Mongolian (my Mongolian textbook says the number of Mongolian vowels is 6, some people say it is 7), and the number of vowels in Anatolia is 8.
유럽에도 비슷한 사례가 있습니다. 브리튼섬의 켈트족이죠. 4세기 게르만족의 침공으로 스코틀랜드 웨일즈 등으로 밀려난 켈트족처럼 고대 한반도의 야요이인들도 북방에서 온 한국어화자들에 의해 학살 축출 동화되어 한반도에서 사라졌고 한반도로부터 축출된 야요이인들이 현대일본인의 직계조상이죠. 켈트족처럼 고대재한야요이인들은 몇몆지명이외에는 아무것도 못남겼죠
Now that is plausible, esp considering the similarity in Japanese-Korean genetics. Then we possibly can compare extreme-north and extreme-south Korean genetics to see if south is more similar to Japanese and to what extent.
@@justinnamuco9096 well they actually collect data from Korean communities in China and Russia who are closest with people to North Korean and their genetic profile not that different from their southern counterparts mean still pretty much closer with Japanese than Manchurian. Not surprised because of back forth migration from North to south and vice versa during three kingdom to Joseon period.
그럼 일본어족(켈트)이 먼저 한반도와 요동 지역에 정착해 살고 있었는데, 이후 한국어족(게르만)이 요동과 한반도 북부를 시작으로 일부가 아름아름 한반도 남부에 건너와 살았고 원래 터전에서 밀려난 일본어족이 이때 일본열도로 대규모 이주를 시작했고, 고조선 멸망 이후 유민들이 남부로 쏟아져 들어오면서 한반도 내 일본어족이 자취를 감추기 시작했다 봐야겠군요.
@@yezhan5006넵 이미 박혁거세의 사로국 건국즈음인 1세기경 대다수 고대재한야요인들이 축출당한걸로 보입니다. 알렉산더 보빈교수의 연구결과로는
@@yezhan5006네 박혁거세가 사로국을 건국한 1세기 즈음에 이미 대다수 고대재한야요인들이 축출된 것으로 보입니다.
That's interesting, the one on the left is claiming that the Japanese spoken in Kyushu is different from the rest of mainland Japan.
the situation of the japonic varieties in japan is that the mainstream notion is to call them all dialects with only standard japanese being the supposed real japanese language there, but if some people go by intelligibility, some people consider those in kyushu to not be understandable already that they could be considered different languages but it seems no one denies anymore here if hachijo is different language from the japonic varieties in the japan main home islands
@@xXxSkyViperxXx Seems that the Kyushu dialects are mostly ignored in Japanese anime since when they're talking about a form of Japanese that is not the standard (I guess the one spoken in Tokyo), it's usually the Kansai/Osaka dialect. I am kinda surprised about Hachijo since I didn't think those small islands south of Tokyo spoke a form of Japanese that is different enough from modern standard Japanese to be considered a different language.
@@JcDizon yes, probably because the ones making the anime and mainstream japanese media is the mainstream standard kanto japanese they now majorly use across japan, so all the other ones are marginalized into obscurity. i was surprised before too these existed but the anime, Golden Kamuy, at some point there had a character from Kyushu use the Kyushu "dialect" there (who knows which one). of course, that anime would do that because they cared enough to showcase minority Ainu culture even if they had to throw in more japanese main characters to appeal and be relatable to their expected majority japanese audiences. I read that the history of Hachijo islands was that it was a place they exiled criminals during probably those times that Eastern Old Japanese was still the norm over there, hence they just preserved it enough today, but modern times is now encrouching on them that they are now endangered. of course, these islands are that corner of japan they mustve forgot to try to spoonfeed and conform their mainstream culture of.
@user-xz4nu7eq7i they are not as different as Cantonese vs Mandarin, but maybe the difference is like Cantonese vs Taishanese
@user-xz4nu7eq7i i guess so maybe
Very very cool video! I guess that mainland Japonic-speaking peoples were probably related to Dongyi（東夷，"Eastern Yi"） people mentioned in the historical documents of ancient China based on the info provided by this video. So detailed and comprehensive!👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Another fake card from a Korean.
夷 does not mean barbarian in Old Chinese, this character is literally a man holding a bow. It did not have the modern implication, it was merely a proper name for people or peoples who lived in and around Shandong.
A big problem with modern researchers when it comes to Chinese language is that they superimpose modern meaning onto ancient names, or understand the name literally instead of seeing them as proper nouns meant to *transliterate* non-sinitic names and titles.
@@larshofler8298 yea i am sorry my understanding is wrong. Yi 夷 is usually considered as a derogatory term in modern Chinese languages but it refers to a fixed group lived in Shandong peninsula and northern Jiangsu at that time, possibly not a discriminatory word. Your viewpoint is more reasonable, so the best translation should be Yi people, a neutral word in Chinese context😂. Thanks for your correction!👍🏻
Yes, although it would be fun to try Old Chinese reconstruction :)
やっぱ、Vovinの研究が正しいのかな。長江流域の米の品種が、日本に伝わってるのと、神社の鳥居みたいな構造物も、中国の奥地にあるようだし。で、オーストロネシア語族っぽい語感(音節が母音で終わるなど)も、長江あたりで、オーストロネシア語族の更に祖先みたいな言語との接触で「言語連合」みたいな効果によって生まれたものかもしれんし。
あと中国南方由来の下戸遺伝子とかですね
@@山川川山 元々、チベットとか日本(大和民族、琉球民族、アイヌ民族)に共通の「ハプロタイプD」があるので、チベット近辺→長江流域ってルートが起源なのかもしれない。
@@aaa_aaa_aaa2023 ハプログループDの染色体はアイヌが一番濃くて、琉球、大和の順で減っていくので縄文人由来のものではないでしょうか
日本の最古の水田稲作の遺跡は約3000年前。弥生人（O1b2）による渡来は一度には少人数であり、期間も数百年間に渡ってる。気候変動が移住の引き鉄。場所も稲作漁労ができる地域を選び、在来の人々と通婚して、言語的には取り込まれてる可能性が高い。言語・DNA的にフィリピン・ポリネシア・台湾原住民などの系統も長江下流域の出身と想定されてる。弥生人も元々は同系統の言語だったかも。発音的に現在でも、日本人にはハワイ語などが聞き取りやすいはず。
I'm south korean and i have d1b1c as Y-dna.
This is utterly masterpiece!
초기백제와 오월지역의 문화가 비슷했던 것도 비슷한 맥락일까
오월,산동 지역의 주민들이 팽호열도를 따라 지속적으로 한반도로 유입 되었다는 것은 언어적, 문화적, 고고학적으로 입증 되어 가는 듯?
근데 왜 오월지역과 한반도, 일본열도의 유전자는 차이가 나는거지??
오월쪽은 야만인이라고 다 죽이거나 남쪽으로 남쪽으로 밀리다가 한족에 동화되버렸겠지요? 당시 중국남부는 인구도 적은 미개발 지역이었으니 유전자 구성에 영향을 주기엔 너무 인구가 적었다고 해석해야하지 않을까요?
@@cualcualcual 압도적인 수의 북방한족 남하민 유전자에 희석된 것이겠군요
너는 바보냐?
정말 단순하게 의문을 품는구나
@@킬라-p2e 개솔ㄴㄴ
"we found that modern Japanese as well as Ulchi, Korean, aboriginal Taiwanese, and Philippine populations were genetically closer to F23 [Jomon] than to Han Chinese." from the paper Late Jomon male and female genome sequences from the Funadomari
site in Hokkaido, Japan. By Hideaki Kanzawa-Kiriyama et al.
I've read that study and it says that only Taiwan Aborigines and Northern Luzon people show some correlation with Jomon, whereas other Austronesians and other SE Asians tested have no correlation with Jomon. It's much more likely that Taiwan and Northern Luzon people received an additional genetic input from somewhere in the north after the spread and divergence of Austronesian peoples, which explains why only them carry it and not others.
@@weifan9533Or the alternative hypothesis that the Taiwanese actually brought farming to Japan and sailed there before your Yellow River ancestors learnt to crawl?
Damn this is so interesting. Thanks so much for making!
100th video? I've subscribed to you.
Very great video. Love watching your content.
congrats for 100th video
Nice video! Been a subscriber since the 7the video.
I hope someday all the lesser spoken Japonic languages experience a revival.
The only existing Japonic language still spoken other than Japanese is Ryukyuan. All the others went extinct in or before the medieval time, replaced by Korean, Jurchen, Mongolic, etc.
@@larshofler8298 Thank you for telling me, from what I've read Ryukyuan is declining, I hope it doesn't.
@@larshofler8298 Ryukyuan itself is not a single language group. It is broadly divided into Northern Ryukyuan languages which consist of Amami, Kunigami, Okinawan, and Southern Ryukyuan languages which include Miyakoan, Yaeyama, and Yonaguni.
There is also Hachijo language as mentioned in this video, the only remaining descendent of Eastern Old Japanese.
Thanks for sharing
if the continental modern-china origin of proto-japonic is true, i think the dates might accurately follow the existence of dongyi and huai yi states at least as their start of spread and later demise and exit from shandong and huai river basin as per the legends of horai / penglai. the demise of these ancient states below:
大彭 Dapeng (state) (?-1060 BC)
譚國 Tan (state) (1046 BC-684 BC)
萊國 Lai (state) (?-567 BC)
徐國 Xu (state) (?-512 BC)
姑蔑 Gumie (?-480 BC)
莒國 Ju (state) (1046 BC-431 BC)
邹國 Zou (state) (1046 BC-350 BC)
If Vovin accurate, this is why some people says Japanese and Proto austronesian have some similar grammar, since Proto austronesian were originates in Southern Chinal/Minyue around below the one proposed by Vivon were Japanese originated at
한국어 - 영어
제주어 - 스코트어
탐라어 - 스코틀랜드 게일어
이런 느낌이려나
My guess is that Japanese is derived from the same ancestor language as Korean, but the split happened so long ago that while both languages are very similar in their grammar, in their vocabulary and phonology they differ substantially. This is not unlike what happened in the Finno-Ugric family when the ancestor of Finnish and the ancestor of Hungarian drifted far enough apart for both languages to be substantially different.
Given the lack of common words, the split would have to be over 10,000 years ago.
@@yo2trader539 Between Korean and Japanese it's possible for everything to be translated word for word in all but a few cases, Korean and Japanese phonology differ noticeably, but not divergently, and some Korean words are cognate with Japanese ones, so I would say the split was around 4000 years ago. Languages similar to the oldest attested forms of Japanese were spoken on the Korean Peninsula as recently as 1500 years ago, right before the ancestor of Korean began to establish itself all over the Korean Peninsula. Old Japanese established itself on the Japanese Archipelago, largely in isolation from Old Korean, and slowly spread throughout Japan as it evolved into Middle Japanese. As well, it's likely that Old Japanese had phonology similar to Korean, but lost a few vowel and consonant sounds, and strict vowel harmony, as it evolved into Middle Japanese. Hachijô and Kesennuma languages are holdovers from the period before Middle Japanese.
@@hananokuni2580 That's exactly why most linguists identify it as SPRACHBUND rather than stemming from a common proto-language. Figuring out the origins of the Korean language is equally a difficult task. As you know Japanese words almost always end with a vowel (except for Chinese loanwords). Korean is like a fusion of Chinese + Tungusic + Japonic.
@@yo2trader539
1. kom - kuma
2. maul - mura
3. bushida - bushii
4. mul(mozl) - mizu
5. seulseul - sorosoro
6. uri - uare
7. kuruda - kuruma
8. damulda - damaru
9. seom - sema
10. iri - inu
etc..... + more 1000
but 합성어/合成語 is almost chinese loan world
@@kimurahundoshi4485Are these loanwords or cognates?
very interesting, thanks for sharing
고구려는 부여 유민들이 세운 나라고
백제는 고구려 유민들이 세운 나라며
고구려,백제,신라는 서로 말이 통하며
중국과는 언어가 통하지 않아 통역관을 두어야 했다는 자료와 신라또한 남방계가 아닌 고구려와는 다른 북방계
민족으로 사작했다고 배웠는데 틀린건가요? 고대 일본어족이 하나의 방언으로 인식된건지 궁금합니다.
고구려는 동부여인들이 남하하여 기존의 고조선유민들과 연합하여 세운나라. 백제는 고구려인들이 남하하여 기존의 고조선유민,침미다례인들과 연합하여 세운 나라. 신라는 고조선유민들이 남하하여 세운 나라. 모두 예맥인들이 세운 나라이고 말이통하는건 너무 당연한것입니다. 고구려-백제-신라 순으로 일종의 방언 연속체로서 존재했을 가능성이 대단히 높으며 고구려인과 신라인이 소통하기 위해선 백제인을 다리에 놓아야 된다는 기록과도 합치합니다. 한족과 야요인들과는 아예 다른 집단이고 그래서 백제인과 왜인들이 우호적인 관계일지언정 언어는 다르므로 통역이 필요했죠
i want aso you in korean historican is there show papers evidences of volga tatars or just tatar peoples who later becomes volga or crimean tatars?
pretty objective in presenting both the theories about japanese language origin
I have to say I'm much more convinced with the first (newest) theory. Especially a Liao River origin of para-Japonic seems much more likely than a central Yangtze River origin.
The language of the people living in the Yangtze River has many tones. I live in the upper reaches of the Yangtze River. There are five tones in my mother tongue. For people living in the lower reaches of the Yangtze River, their language has eight tones (or nine), but the tone of Japanese is single
@@可爱包-c4v tonogenesis in chinese languages happened later on after antiquities already. the ancient japonic ancestors left that area before the tones developed there. old chinese wasnt tonal before but its when middle chinese came when they started becoming tonal. thats mostly a continental thing too. in peninsular southeast asia, they have tones too. its probably cuz the continent has more conflict for thousands of years and different societies of people later converged into one
@@可爱包-c4v Tones evolved much later. Even Sinitic was not tonal in the beginning. The fact that about 30-40% of Korean and Japanese males carrying O-M176 haplogroup and practicing rice cultivation indicate at least one of their ancestries is from middle Yangzi.
@xXxSkyViperxXx：Tibetan and Burmese also have complex tones, which shows that the complex tones come from an ancient common ancestor. So the history of Han tone may be 10000 years.
@Hernando Malinche:Khmer (Cambodian), the oldest language in Southeast Asia, has no tone.
へーこんなまとめあるんすね。面白かった
Diverging theories. Cool
OMG. what a beautiful music. It brings a lot of peace inside. ❤️❤️❤️
One thing that confuses me as a European Australian is how Spanish, German, Greek, Russian, Persian and Hindustani all belong to the one language family but that Japonic and Koreanic are both primary language families.
I don't see how that's hard to understand. In many other places you can find languages that don't belong in the same linguistic family living adjacent to each other. In Europe there is Basque, Turkic and Uralic. There is also the common phenomenon of sprachbund in which different languages share certain traits due to contact. Modern linguistic research shows that Japonic is not genetically related to Korean, but Japonic is related to Buyo languages. Many people in Korea consider Buyo speaking peoples to be ancestral Koreans due to political reasons, but linguistically speaking this is not exactly true. Their connection is unclear.
The fast spreading of Indo-European languages along Eurasia steppe is not a good model for other languages... That is, most other languages don't follow that pattern
Influence versus family :)
The similarities between Spanish, German and Greek are actually quite clear (I don't know enough about Persian & Hindustani). It's not just words (predictable sound changes), it's also grammar:
-they all have the concept of gender, specifically calling it masculine, feminine, neuter (other language families with gender might have other systems, like Algic in North America where the "gender" is animate & non-animate). Spanish lost most of the neuter (which latin had)
-they all have the concept of cases en only the cases that Indo-European had. Spanish lost them (Latin had them). Greek & German lost a few of them.
-they all use verb conjugation for person (1st, 2nd, 3rd), tense (present, past, future), number (singular, plural), mood (continuous, conditional, etc). That sounds pretty normal but there are many languages (and language families) that don't have it.
-speaking of person, tense, number and mood... It's for all pretty much the same. There are languages with 4 persons, no tenses (chinese for example), more or no number, etc... All these Indo European languages have more or less the same amount (some things were lost in most of them, like the dualis number: "2 of them")
I don't know a lot about Japanese or Korean but I was told that the similarities are mostly within the vocabulary of which most actually comes from Chinese. It's like English. If you only look at the vocabulary, you could claim that English is a Romance language since most of the vocab is from French (or Latin). We know however that it is Germanic since we have the older version of it: old English is very much like Dutch & German. Also, we know why modern English looks so French: bloody Normans in 1066! :) ;)
That being said, I still think Korean is connected to Japonic, since Japonic played a major role in the history of the Korean peninsula.
@@larshofler8298 Who knows... Like I said, I don't. What I do know though, is that it is very hard to proof any connection older than, let's say, 5000 years. Yes for some families it is claimed that they go back 10.000 or more years. And maybe they do. Why not? It's just that it is, I believe, almost impossible to proof. In general I am, what they call "a splitter". I don't really believe in super families like Altaic in Asia, Nilo-Saharan in Africa or Macro-Siouan in the Americas. A Sprachbund is far more likely in many cases.
great video!!
Did you chance upon Vovin's 2021 paper Austronesians in Northern Waters? He said Japonic is linked to Austronesian beyond any reasonable doubt based on comparisons mostly with Philippines as well as some western Malayo-Polynesian and Amis. Core vocab and intense contact coinciding with about the Yayoi to Yamato periods. It seems there are multiple layers of Austronesian in Japonic including of recent vintage.
Vovin is one of the very few linguists that supports such a far-fetched hypothesis, the majority of linguists (especially those who actually work with Austronesian, Tai-Kradai, and other southern languages) don't support it. Hence his words aren't to be taken for granted.
Just like the problem with including Japanese into Altaic, there's a lack of cognates between Japanese and Austro-Tai, and also a lack of supporting genetic and archaeological evidence.
For now Japanese remains in the Japonic family.
@@weifan9533 As far as I am aware, Vovin never connected Japonic with any other language family genetically, he only suggests that Japonic has loanwords from continental SEA languages, which could lead to the suggestion that Japonic was once spoken close to them.
@@Nastya_07 Yet no archaeological or genetic evidence support the claim that Japanese people originated in South China or SE Asia. If Japonic was once spoken close to those southern languages then you'd expect Japanese people to leave some genetic traces or archaeological evidence there, yet no such evidence has been found up to date.
And Vovin isn't known for researches in SE Asian languages either, those linguists that do work with SE Asian languages such as Roger Blench, Weera Ostapirat, and Kosaka have never linked them to Japonic.
@@Nastya_07 I personally speak some Zhuang (a Tai-Kradai language spoken in South China) and it doesn't sound like Japanese at all and its grammar is also completely different from Japanese.
@@weifan9533 As I said, Vovin only suggested that Japanese borrowed a few words from Kra-Dai, he never said that they are part of the same language family.
There is evidence for the claim that Southeast Asia was involved in the history of the Japanese, even Robbeets agrees with that idea (though she believes it was contact from Para-Austronesian peoples, as she places the Japanic homeland in Liaoning)
The left hand theory makes a lot more sense to me
The linguistic evidence for the out of southern China theory is scant. There are about a dozen Japonic words that show resemble to Tai-Kadai. The rest of the argument relies on archeology, which is an entirely different argument outside the expertise of the linguists who are trying to push this theory.
It's more likely the Early Japanese absorbed Tai-Kadai/Austronesian speakers while in Japan from the existence of the Hayato, Kumaso, and Azumi peoples in Early Japanese texts.
@@Innomenatus There is no evidence that the Austronesians settled southern Japan, they didn't even settle all of the Kuril islands and we have evidence of that.
@@g-rexsaurus794 the Kuril islands? You know that's north of Hokkaido, right? And the Kumaso, Azumi, and Hayato are believed to be Austronesian-like due to linguistic and cultural similarities.
@Kerimcan Ak No, they're considered to be related to Austronesian, have you ever heard of Austo-Tai?
初めて知った。ありがとうございます
what happened to the big patch of japonic languages in manchuria and north korea in the first chart, i find it highly unlikely that a language that spread so far would just dissapear over a couple of decades
The ancient Chosun kingdom which is believed to be the first ethnic origin of Korean(韓) got spread from Manchuria Liao region to North korea around that age. Usually many scholars think that it's because of the war against Chinese Yin kingdom and defeat of Chosun.
Chosun dynasty Korea's first dynasties core territories are in North Korea and Liadong and Manchuria, the Yemaek started there expansion during this time and become prominant tribe in NK, the Japs in the north were probably a minority regime as compared to the more abundant koreanic tribes which caused the fast extinction of the language as compared to in southern Korea were the language is spoken up until the 4th century to the point that Japonic place names got preserved, so i short there were more native Koreans then Japanese in NK then they were in SK which allowed Japonic to flourish.
こうして無料で公開してくれるのがありがたい。字幕のお陰で機械翻訳が使えるし、本当に頭が上がらない。
Team right here.
Just hear how old Japanese and the most basic vocabulary sound like, you will immediately realize Japanese's root. Ofc linguistic is not related to genetic in this case, since indigenous people was replaced almost completely.
The emperor of Japan ascended to the throne in 660 BC.
The emperor's Y-chromosome DNA is known to be Jomon D1a2.
The DNA of the rice-growing people called the Yayoi people is O1b2.
The bones of a group that came from Baekje between the 4th and 7th centuries are O2.
40% of the current Japanese Y-chromosome haplogroup is called Jomon, 35% Yayoi, and 20% Kofun.
So the two models actually are just one model with different starting points, which in real life isn't even mutually exclusive.
supply Robbeets, the foundation of the original Japanese language was formed in the northeastern region of China. Although there may have been immigrant tribes from Shandong Shanghai South China participating in the fusion process, there is no doubt that more prehistoric tribes from Northeast China also participated in the formation of this language, which led to the Altaic characteristics of Japanese and the similarity in blood relationship with the Northeast ethnic group.
Is Japanese really Altaic tho?
Yes. The Yayoi people did not originate in Southern China, but in North China around Manchuria.
Nice 🔥
I believe that japanese and korean are same language family. KR & JP brothership!! forever! 🇯🇵❤🇰🇷
japanese is similiar with china,too
No japan and Korea are like turkey and Greece. Similar geographical location. Completely different people, language, religion, and culture
Koreans and Japanese are related without a doubt.
@@ganggang2537 Very bad example as the Turks and Greeks share very close genetics ties which isn't surprising as modern day Turkiye is the heart of the byzantine empire.
@@ganggang2537 thats... ridiculous comparison... Turkistic people originally lived right beside china and moved there after 8th century.
I think Robbeets theories are more make sense for japonic Unheirmait but Vovin have more make sense in classification
This ambitious classification of Puyo with Japonic and their dominance over Korea and southern Manchuria for so long seem very spurious and non-scientific to be quite honest. I think both theories make very wild and weird claims, to me it makes more sense to just see a migration of Japonic speakers from Southern Manchuria or from the Jiangsu region into Southern Korea and then into Japan.
DNA does not match. Mongolians and Manchus have Haplogroup C (along with 20% of South Koreans). You should listen to Manchu and Mongolian. You could easily tell by the pitch accent that they migrated to Korean peninsula. They merged with native Japonic speakers and created a fusion language.
The emperor of Japan ascended to the throne in 660 BC.
The emperor's Y-chromosome DNA is known to be Jomon D1a2.
The DNA of the rice-growing people called the Yayoi people is O1b2.
The bones of a group that came from Baekje between the 4th and 7th centuries are O2.
40% of the current Japanese Y-chromosome haplogroup is called Jomon, 35% Yayoi, and 20% Kofun.
@@yo2trader539 Only the C2a-L1373 subclade is related to Tungusic and Mongolic peoples, whereas other C subclades have little to no relation to them. The indigenous Hoabinhian peoples of South China and SE Asia carry haplogroup C subclades as well, namely C1b-B65 and C1b-B68, and they have nothing to do with Mongols and Manchus.
What is that bgm in the past? 3qqqq
Can it explain why Japanese sounds like Shanghai or Zhejiang dialect? Or maybe they just using similar pronunciation via Kanzi? Like today Japanese using a lot English terms
I wonder too. Some Wu dialects do sound a little Japanese-ish, though I don't think there is significant connection. And other southern Sinitic varieties doesn't have that "Japanese-ness". I do think the pronunciation of Wu might have been influenced by pre-Sinitic Kra-Dai or even para - Austronesian that used to live in that region.
On the other hand, it seems trading and pirating across East China Sea was quite common, there was quite some maritime traffic between coastal Wu region, southern Korea and southern Japan. So who knows?
I don't think the similarities between Japanese and Wu dialects have any connection to the theories presented in this video.Actually Japanese has a Kanji reading category called Go-On (吴音)-literally "Wu sounds".Wu pronunciations of Kanjis were borrowed since around 400-700 AD.
the sino-xenic chinese loans into japanese that japanese evolved in later centuries are the ones that are like those in southern chinese languages. the native japanese terms are completely different. japanese today calls the chinese loans as on'yomi, sound readings (meaning they say them as they heard them long ago from china), then kun'yomi, meaning readings (meaning they say the native term they always meant that was theirs before but just use kanji (chinese characters) and kana now to conveniently express those too)
Maybe because Shanghainese is a pitch accent language like Japanese, and not a fully tonal language like other Chinese varieties? Other than the basic melody I don't think the phonologies are very similar, Shanghainese has a ton of vowels for example and Japanese has the standard 5 vowels.
Great job !
I wonder why they were constantly moving, why they never stayed where they were living in the beginning.
Wow, i've thought that Buyeo is part of Koreanic branch.
Love the side-by-side comparison.
If I may add, genetic evidence points to a patrilineal line based in the South (Y-DNA haplogroup O1b2), but whole genome sequencing says the Japanese and Koreans today are more northern-shifted. There are also other Y-DNA haplogroups that got introduced into the Japanese & Korean populations. MtDNAs are much more diverse.
Linguistic evidence, on the other hand, does not yet support the Japanese-Korean relationship, but instead points to an early contact between the two. It may be that the O1b2 line of Japanese and Koreans indeed started off from the south, along the Yangtze, moving east to the coast and then making their way into Northeastern China where they heavily intermixed with the various unrelated "Altaic" people, resulting in the superficial similarity we see today.
We're not too sure about the beginning part, but the next part is more clear: We know that the early people whom we refer to as the Mumuns moved into the Korean Peninsula and then became the Yayoi of Japan. The Mumuns that stayed behind in Korea got taken over and assimilated by a northern nomadic tribe that possibly introduced the Koreanic tongue to them. Meanwhile, the Yayoi intermixed with the Jomon on the archipelago, until they both got overwhelmed by the Kofun settlers from the Yellow River in northern China, which a Japanese study confirmed in 2021 to be the ancestors of modern Japanese (making up 70% of their ancestry).
On a separate note, Vovin does not actually dispute the "Transurasian" contact. What he and many other linguists disagree on is the theory that posits the Transurasian link as a language family, instead of a sprachbund, and also the naming of this group of languages as it's conflating with the now largely-obsolete "Altaic" theory.
Seafaring migration was extremely small in size and were generally absorbed into local languages. There is no evidence to suggest what type of languages O1b2 people spoke. Also what you call Kofun people, Haplogroup O2 people--i.e. Northern Chinese who lived on the Korean peninsula and migrated to Japan during 4-7th century during centuries of chaos--make less than 20% of modern Japanese.
@@yo2trader539 "We find that most of the ancient or modern populations in our dataset are significantly closer to the Kofun than they are to the Yayoi. This finding implies additional migration to the archipelago during the six centuries that separates the genomes from these two periods." "We then explore the possibility that the continental ancestry observed in both the Yayoi and Kofun periods derives from the same source, with intermediate levels of Northeast and East Asian ancestry (table S12). Only one candidate was found to better fit a two-way mixture for Kofun, a population of the Late Bronze Age and Iron Age individuals from the Yellow River basin (YR_LBIA) (20), although this was not consistent across the reference sets (nested, P = 0.100; table S13)."
@@yo2trader539 Look up "Ancient genomics reveals tripartite origins of Japanese populations" (2021) on NCBI and Science. Note that geneticists today look at genome-wide autosomal affinities instead of just their Y-DNA haplogroups.
@@auburntiger6829 How do people in the Kofun era conclude that they are O2 group?
First, you guys were not even on the Korean Peninsula in that era.
I know who the Chinese are.
Listen to what Chinese descent says. Wu Tae, the founder of Baekje, is a Chinese, and Jumong is a descendant of the Yellow emperor because he writes the same Chinese characters as the Chinese Ko clan. (However, “Ko" means “high” and is a Hanja that was commonly used in all Eastern civilizations.) Japan is a country made by Qin Emperor's order, and at the same time, the Japanese Emperor is a descendant of the Yue. Silla is also a descendant of the Qin Dynasty and a descendant of Soho, China.
It's not just a fake lie in ancient times. It's like that in modern times, too.
You Chinese descendant says..
Xiongnu is a descendant of King Zhou, and Western Xia is a descendant of ancient Xia 2,000 years ago. The Manchurians are descendants of Song’s General.
Yup and Wu during the Warring States period were brothers and were not Chinese. However, it claims to be the ancient Zhou descendant.
There is no consistency because all of the Chinese's history were described for the purpose.
Truth was not always important to Chinese. For you, history has always been just a means, not an end.
How satisfied will the Chinese be with the outside world through fabrication with themselves?
And you Chinese desentdant people claim that you are a descendant of the Baiyue people in Vietnam. In Korea, Chinese people claim that they are descendants of Gojoseon, and that the northeastern part of China is the origin of Koreans.
From the Japanese's point of view, Chinese people, who were not originally Koreans, swallowed the Korean Peninsula, claimed to be Joseon people, immigrated to Japan after the annexation of Korea, and copied the Japanese, and claimed that the “origin of the Japanese was Joseon”. Wouldn't that naturally lead to disgust and fear?
Westerners should stop believing in Chinese records. Of course, there are vain stories in civilizations around China, but this is only a limitation because it is a story of the mythical era of the country, and it does not intentionally lie and propaganda like China.
Robert's hypothesis accepted the intended fabrication of more Chinese than Bobbin's. Therefore, the Chinese cheer and the non-Chinese do not believe in the West, which is controlled by the Chinese.
The reason why Eastern civilization is insidious and reluctant is because of the mental state of these Chinese people. Their spirituality consists of lies and fabrication only for their people. Isn't it natural for Chinese civilization to fall behind in the West? There is a clear difference between the pagoda built on the truth and the pagoda built on the falsehood.
Your Chinese civilization repeats division-unification without help to mankind. You are a mass of cancer cells that assimilate and swallow the surrounding ethnic to maintain life.
The Xiongnu, Jie, Qiang, Di, Xianbei, Kitan, Mongol, Manchu apparently existed, but now they are all absorbed or declining by China.
If other countries and ethnic groups are normal cells that contribute to the good faith of mankind, it is clear that you are abnormal cancer cells.
For the dignity of mankind as a whole and the soul of mankind, China's spirit must be removed.
So, did you Chinese people want to spread cancer cells to Japan because they are not enough to the peninsula?
If Chinese were a real brother, they would want each other's success apart, not try to stick to lies like you.
So 辰國(chenguo) in south Korea is japan people😂😂😂
댓글창 난리나겠네
일뽕 국뽕 외국인 ㅈ문가의 향연 ㅋㅋㅋㅋ
ㄹㅇㅋㅋㅋ
조만간 댓글창에서 임진왜란, 병자호란, 청일전쟁 터질듯 ㄹㅇ
@@jin.24. also don't forget Turkish invasion
from the continent, through the peninsula, to the isles
I believe Proto-Japonic language was a common language from southeast China, southern Korean peninsula, and Japanese islands since before ice age. Before ice age those lands are connected and it is natural that the languages in three regions are similar. Probably Jomon was also derived from Proto-Japanic. Koreanic and Sintic came from north (Siberia) and west.
아마도 일본조어가 중국 동남부, 한반도 남부, 일본 열도에서 빙하기 전부터 공통 언어였던거같음. 빙하기 전에는 이 땅들이 연결돼었었고 여기서 쓰였던 언어들이 비슷했을거임. 조몬어도 크게 보면 일본조어에 속했을 수도 있음. 한국어랑 중국어는 북쪽 시베리아나 서쪽에서 왔을거임.
오히려 빙하기때 언어들이 고립화되어서 갈라졌다고 보는게 맞는것같습니다
한국어가 시베리아지역에서 고시베리아어족과의 분열 그리고 고립화하여 독자적인 어족을 형성했다고 보는것도 나름 가능성있죠
다만 , 일본어는 루트부터가 의문이라 고립화하기전엔 어느 어족이었는지 확답을 못하겠네요
I think two theory is truth because modern japan people is mixed with 3 group people 😁😁
놀라운 영상..
So The Pre-Proto Japonic speakers carrying the O1B2 gene started out in modern-day Jiangsu as the Magabyeong culture from 5000-3300BC and interacted with the Proto-Austro-Tai Hamodo speakers, replacing almost all of their Para-Austroasiatic, or Boreoasiatic vocabulary with proto-austro-tai. They migrated to Shandong as the Daemungu culture starting in 4000 BC before finally using their Austronesian sailing tech to sail to Liaoning finally as the Mumun to interbreeding with the Jeulmun before the Proto-Koreans invaded, interbred genetically and linguistically, and eventually became the Jin and the Yayoi?
Seems like it. What an insane theory.
This is The Japonic Language at The High School Level! You are right! The Japanese has Sino-Tibetan Origin and The Japanese are a mix of Sino-Tibetans with Altaico-Uralics, they Came from China as all The Sino-Tibetan Tribes, Mixed with Altaico-Uralics and Came to Peninsula and their Emperor, Jimmu, settled into an Arhipelage. All, The Emperor Jimmu spoke Japanese Language, Who is Unique, and founded Japan. The Japanese unified all The Arhipelage with Islands, but they lost The Peninsula to The Koreeans, Who are Sino-Tibetan too, but coming from China, mixing with Altaico-Uralics, but forming Koreean Language and People in The New Peninsula. The Japanese listened The God Father, and managed assimilating and unifying all The Peninsula and avoiding The Mongol Invasion. They assimilated all The Ainu People by Japanization, and Became a Great Power Empire in Asia. Thank you so much, very much for Diverting and The Theory!
Thank you so much, very much!
What are altaico uralics?
Also I think you misunderstood. Just because the hypothesized homeland for japonic is in modern day China does not mean they are sino-Tibetan
@@xe5309, thank you so much, very much! You are right, but you see, Chinese, Koreanic and Japonics, alls are from China. Whille Chinese remained in China and unified all The China by their hands, The Japonics were mixed with The Altaico-Uralics Who Came over them. They Formed The Japanese People. The Japanese Conquered all The Peninsula and left completely The China. The Japanese had The problems and with The Koreans Who is Formed by The mixing The Koreanics with The Altaico-Uralics and then, formed the Koreeans. The Japanese, under Emperor Jimmu, founded in The Japanese Arhipelage The Modern Day Japan. The Emperor Jimmu founded Japan in The Arhipelage named Nippon Kongu, The Land of The Rising Sun. The Ainu were mixed with The Japanese and by The Japonic and Ainu formed The Japanese People in The Arhipelage. The Japanese unified all The Arhipelage by assimilating all The Ainus and Formed in all The Unified Arhipelage a New Empire. The Koreanics assimilated The Peninsular Japonics and Formed The Korean People. They remained in The Peninsula, now, The Koreean Peninsula.
Both Han(汉） and Tibetan are tonal and monosyllabic, but Japanese is not like them
according to vovin, could I supposed that proto-japonic Y-DNA is o1b2?
I love Japan
Ok
Best mapper ever, even better than kayra
So the east Barbarian in china history in shandong is japan people???😂😂
Until BC, people in Shandong Province spoke Korean.
Around 2000 BC, northern nomadic barbarians (Chinese) came from the northwest and ruled the Yellow River basin, and ethnic migrations began.
If it is truth so sui and tang dynasty fought the war with japan instead Korea 😮😮😮
한국어족도 두가지 가설로 다시 만들어주심 안될까요 (- -) (_ _)
Where where you when Puyō die? I was in Japan eating sushi when message came "Puyō is kill" "iie"
Before 1000BC, Robbeets is correct, after 1000bc, Volvin is correct...
Robbeets Unheirmait is more accurate and matching with Japanese genetics profile who mostly northeast asian rather than southeast asian.
But Vovin have more accurate classification.
What is the first song called?
Pastor Arimasa Kubo said, (Part 2. of 1-2)
Time of Separation of Haplogroups D and E
Second question: about the time when haplogroup DE was separated to D and E.
Generally, geneticists say that D and E were separated in the Middle East about 50 or 60 thousand years ago. However, it was about 2700 years ago when the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel were exiled from the land of Israel. You may think that there is a big time difference. But this "50-60 thousand years ago" is not an actual measured value, but an estimated value based on the evolution theory.
Since this is an estimated one, the value has been changing widely. And today, the big values based on the evolution theory have in fact lost its credibility. When an evolutionist says it was 60 thousand years ago, mostly it was actually several thousand years ago. Because, there is a chronological measurement method using Carbon-14, which accuracy is clear by comparing with archeological materials of known age. When measuring materials that evolutionists say 50-60 thousand years ago, with using the Carbon-14 method, only the result of several thousand years comes out.
You many say "That should not happen." But this is true. There is a dispute on it between evolutionists and scientific creationists. For example, measuring bones of Neanderthal man, which evolutionists say several hundred thousand years ago, the Carbon-14 method shows only several thousand years. So does the case of Cro-Magnon man, which evolutionists say several tens thousand years. Scientific creationists explain such things. Haplogroups D and E must have been actually separated about several thousand years ago.
Why Shinlung Tribe Do Not have D, E, or J?
Lastly, In north India and Myanmar live a tribe called Shinlung (Menashe). They are Asians who have similar faces like the Japanese, but have ever had ancient Israeli culture and tradition. Amishav, a Jewish search group of the Lost Tribes of Israel, recognized that the Shinlung people are descendants of ancient Israelites. The Shinlung people re-learned Judaism, and it is famous that more than 1000 Shinlung people already returned to Israel, now living as Jews.
However, their DNA test result was unexpected. Their Y-chromosome was not haplogroup E or D, even not haplogroup J or CMH. Most of them are haplogroup K or O, which is typical for Asians. However, scientists also investigated Mitochondria DNA, which shows the maternal DNA information, while Y-chromosome DNA shows the paternal DNA. The result showed a close relationship with Jews of the Middle East and Uzbek.
But why did the paternal Y-chromosome DNA show only the connection with Asians? We can know it if we study the history of Shinlung. When they had wandered about in China in old times, they were ruled by other nations who made them slaves. They became slaves and never came back to their villages. Their women were often raped. So, the children who were born there had not the Y-chromosome of Shinlung, but the ones of the Chinese. Furthermore in China, men of a conquered nation were often all killed. That was why the paternal Y-chromosome DNA was hard to remain.
When a nation had a hard history, Y-chromosome was hard to remain. Sometimes it even disappears. It tells such a sad story of the Shinlung tribe that their paternal Y-chromosome did not have haplogroup D or E, and only their maternal Mitochondria DNA showed a close relationship with Jews. Thinking of this, the fact that nearly 40% of the Japanese have haplogroup D and YAP is remarkable. It tells a strong connection with current Jews and ancient Israelites.
THey look nothing like Japanese people
Is it possible there is truth in aspects of both theories?
A sad truth is that we could never conclude how Japonic language was established. Most of East Asian languages disappeared and were assimilated by Chinese, and what we have now is only Japanese, Korean and perhaps Manchurian. If only were there another living language in North East Asia, we might be able to make relationships or a language family of NEA languages.
and considering that manchurian is more sinosised than ever even way back into the qing or prob even further
However, the DNA of the ethnic groups that are the origin of the Chinese language and live in the middle reaches of the Yellow River has almost completely changed to northern origins (Mongolia, Tungus, Turkey, and Central Asia).
It shows that the ancient Han people migrated south.
나무위키 반도일본어 문서에 지도 올라가 있던데 본인이 하신건가여
Both of these theories look weird, I mean the first one still totes the largely debunked Altaic language family.
The Southern China theory is bullshit. And the idea that Goguryeo was Japonic is bullshit too, so they are both bullshit in their own way.
I always thought Japanese and Korean grammar was very similar. Would make sense if they had the same origin.
However it feels mysterious that the two languages' pronounciation of words are so far from each other.
No. They have very different grammars
@@cheerful_crop_circle both are so similar bro...
as a korean/japanese,actually almost same grammar
@@kimurahundoshi4485Grammar but not vocabulary, lols, could be just a result of sprachbound or influence with each other after all modern South Korea was Japonic speaking until the Northern half of Korea, Koreanized it during the ancient times it wasn't instant it was a slow and painstaking process, so it was probably due to long contact with each other but not because of ancestry this would both explain the similarity but also the huge difference in words and phonology.
Some believe that the origin of one of Japan’s four alphabets, Katakana, is ancient Hebrew
Japanese uses multiple syllabary (alphabets) and has a special phonetic alphabet for foreign words: katakana, which has helped it manage the impact of foreign words entering its language. It is used for loanwords that enter the Japanese language, such as beer. The other alphabets used are Kanji, Hiragana and Romaji.
Some believe that katakana’s origins are ancient Hebrew as there is some similarity between some of the letters, which are also pronounced in a similar manner, such as the letter Ka and Kaph for instance.
These similarities are often cited as evidence by proponents of the theory that one of the lost 10 tribes of Israel ended up in Japan. Books have been published in English on the topic and Japanese television programmes have also explored the subject.
However, most academics believe that katakana is in fact based on Kanji (Chinese characters) and was developed over a thousand years ago in Japan’s Heian Period (794-1185) by Japanese monks to annotate Chinese texts - mostly Buddhist texts; so they could be read by Japanese readers. The alphabet subsequently became used for non-Chinese loanwords as Japan became exposed to other countries, languages and cultures.
The so-called lost tribes of Israel reportedly started leaving and disappearing from Israel following the conquest of its northern kingdom by the Assyrians in 721 BCE.
i feel like id go with the migration path idea of the right one but go with the japonic languages classification of the left one. eh well i independently guessed the same migration path idea of the right one many years ago
Please do AINU Language in JAPAN
What languages do the Ainu speak?
Image result for ainu language
Due to the intermarriage between Japanese and Ainu people, the number of pure blood type Ainu people is very small. There are three main dialects of the Ainu language; Hokkaido-dialect, Sakhalin-dialect, and Kurile-dialect.
What language is spoken in Kuril Islands?
Are the Kuril islands part of Japan?
The Kuril Islands or Kurile Islands is a volcanic archipelago part of Sakhalin Oblast in the Russian Far East.
...
Kuril Islands.
Disputed islands Native name: Курильские острова 千島列島
Kuril Ainu or Kuril, is an extinct and poorly attested Ainu language of the Kuril Islands, now part of Russia. The main inhabited islands were Kunashir, Iturup and Urup in the south, and Shumshu in the north. Other islands either had small populations (such as Paramushir) or were visited for fishing or hunting. There may have been a small mixed Kuril-Itelmen population at the southern tip of the Kamchatka Peninsula. The Ainu of the Kurils appear to have been a relatively recent expansion from Hokkaidō, displacing an indigenous Okhotsk culture, which may have been related to the modern Itelmens. When the Kuril Islands passed to Japanese control in 1875, many of the northern Kuril Ainu evacuated to Ust-Bolsheretsky District in Kamchatka, where about 100 still live. In the decades after the islands passed to Soviet control in 1945, most of the remaining southern Kuril Ainu evacuated to Hokkaidō, where they have since been assimilated. (en)
Kuril Ainu or Kuril, is an extinct and poorly attested Ainu language of the Kuril Islands, now part of Russia. The main inhabited islands were Kunashir, Iturup and Urup in the south, and Shumshu in the north. Other islands either had small populations (such as Paramushir) or were visited for fishing or hunting. There may have been a small mixed Kuril-Itelmen population at the southern tip of the Kamchatka Peninsula.
The Ainu of the Kurils appear to have been a relatively recent expansion from Hokkaidō, displacing an indigenous Okhotsk culture, which may have been related to the modern Itelmens. When the Kuril Islands passed to Japanese control in 1875, many of the northern Kuril Ainu evacuated to Ust-Bolsheretsky District in Kamchatka, where about 100 still live. In the decades after the islands passed to Soviet control in 1945, most of the remaining southern Kuril Ainu evacuated to Hokkaidō, where they have since been assimilated.
80% of Ainu Y-DNA is Jomon (Haplogroup D) and 20% Okhotsk. Modern Japanese Y-DNA is 40-45% Jomon. There is no such thing as a pure blood.
@@yo2trader539 My Y-DNA is: I-P215 (I2) I-M223 CMH, I'm pure Japanese.