I’m not sure who is more fortunate, Sammy to have you for a dad investing in a very practical way in her education, our you to have a daughter who values what you do. Plus the content was fascinating, well explained, and very helpful! Thanks to both of you.
As a music producer I have sorely taken panning for granted. You can never learn the basics enough. I'm now inspired to treat each channel more indepently and creativley 🔥
Aww man! You were already a cool guy who was a gem for sharing your knowledge…now it turns out you’re a cool DAD who has a daughter (or two) who CLEARLY loves her dad. Not only was this a fantastic conversation about panning, but it was a lovely moment in time between a father and child. ❤ to your family.
Moments like this are on another level. Father and Daughter quality time. Wow man. I aplaude you Dave. This has my eye kind of tearing and I tell you why. When Dave passes on she will cry like hell but she will take the torch and keep Dave's name much alive. Its awesome to see how she is passionate about this craft which is very complex. She appreciate what her Dad do for a living and thats love. Dave not only you are a humble sound engineer but a great loving Dad and it shows here. Rock on man.
Wow! This is a great video explaining different panning. I have a medical condition called TMJ, which is a jaw joint dislocations problem and when the jaw is out of place it also messes with the hearing. The things you show in this video is exactly what goes on with my hearing due to the TMJ. The delay panning perception as well as the one side hearing brighter sounds and the other ear hearing little darker is spot on. Trying to explain to people what’s going on with my hearing due to TMJ is no easy task to do. Now I’d just have show people your video on panning.
Very cool! A guest band engineer was in the other day and he used two slightly different mics on the electric guitar cabinet and delayed one to get an amazingly wide sounding guitar sound that didn't compete as much with the vocal. I thought it was awesome. This video demonstrates in much more detail how that works. Thank you! Looking forward to the next in this series!
@@DaveRat How hard do you compress on the compress pan? And, how does it work using this technique on the entire mix by using groups?? (2 Grps =1 clean for L & 1 compressed for the R master)
As far as how hard to compress, like 6 to 8db is usually good, 10 db tends to increase room noise from the mic. 3db is pretty subtle Probably the best way is to either use 2 mics with one having more comp or split the mic to 2 channels and comp one more
I'm glad I caught this video! I've never really messed with Haws Panning before. So, this is the perception of "width". I wonder what the variables are involved for the perception of "depth"?
Hey Dave...keywestjimmy here. Your panning video is an awesome demo!! Your Haas panning touches on the advantages of the stereophonic signal: An inverted phase of one channel (in stereophonic reproduction) only represents one condition or possibility, namely 180 degree phase shift, (and all possibilities in between 0 and 180 using the SAME signal) however, true Stereophonic signal uses DIFFERENT signals that have inverted phase relationships. This is what makes stereo unique from dual mono. With a stereophonic signal you are literally propagating in different directions the L,R, in-phase content, the L,R out-of-phase content (which is Haas panning) AND you are propagating the common in-phase L, common in-phase R, which creates the so-call Mid signal (or sum) and common out-of-phase L, and common out-of-phase R which creates the Side signal (or difference). So, in sound re-enforcement your pa's only propagate L,R signals from 0 to 180 degrees. In stereo your speakers propagate L and R, 0 to 180 AND propagate S and M 0 to 180 degrees.
Thanks. I'll take a look. ...my guess is you've found de-correlated signals are advantageous to rid comb filtering and harmful destructive and harmful constructive wave interference. (Esp. in sound re-enforcement) However, what is a real trip (and what fascinates me) is correlation of all stereo signals. By using correlated L,R to M,S magic happens. Go luck looking that up. No literature exists that I know of. Longitudinal phase research is just in its infancy. It's the secret to eliminating the sweet-spot and creating true longitudinal, stereophonic correlation between L and R AND front and back.
Really cool how the conpression worked. Seems like a silly idea but in practice I really felt it was a sweet musical effect I hadn't come across before, 12 years into mixing/mastering 😄 So thank you Dave!
I can't say that I have ever used compression to alter my stereo image, nice video. My favorite part of this was when Sammy said "Noptimum" at 6:41. Cheers you two!
Dave Rat has such a keen aural sensibility. I never know whether I'm going to love or hate what he says, but I ALWAYS come away with a deeper understanding of sound.
Good stuff, giving away a lot of my mix tricks I’ve been using for years, Delay panning is very powerful live for leaving space in the middle for vocals but equal volume for left and right extremes…
Dave, I've watched some 4 or 5 videos of yours over the last year and it is UNCANNY how they're 15-20 minutes long and they just breeze by as if they were 4 mins each, in spite of all the information you imprint in them. That's a huge, huge win, man! Congrats and keep up the awesome work! =)
So cool and thank you. Doing long format videos in a world of TikTok seems the wrong way to go but I think it's important to share the understanding behind the concept when I can rather than just what happens
Nahh, I'm sure at some point the industry will circle back to long ass formats and yours is a (kinda) long that feels short, so you're ahead of the game! I sent you a message on IG, so not to spam the comments here =)
Great stuff. I've used Haas panning during mixing on occasion, but utilizing compression as an imaging tool never occurred to me. I'm looking forward to part 2.
Thanks Dave. I just got into live mixing for 2 weeks. Been watching a lot of your videos which is super helpful and opened my mind. Very fun and interesting videos!
An interesting thing to note about using EQ to create stereo separation is it's not just about tonal differences between channels. It's also phase shift, creating a "hole in the middle" at some frequencies. The energy is still there but your brain picks up the phase shift. I remember trying a pair of filter that could yield a wide-band +-45-degree phase shifts to reduce the center buildup affect on a mix. The sound was unnaturally "wide".
This is really cool to watch! I don't have the ability to create sound demonstrations like these so I deeply enjoy this sort of lab science being applied to sound. Just the ability to tinker with different settings and learning what they do and how they work is awesome! I'm with Sammy in how the one side eq'ed against the other side made bright really sounded awful. I think that's because I brain is telling me that I'm experiencing hear loss in one ear. Please keep this series going. This was a really fantastic to dive into the audio lab with Dave.
I don't know how you did the sound for the video, or how you recorded the audio in the room....but this is genius. I watched like I was learning panning for the first time...the kid in me when I discovered music production came out. THANK YOU!!
My niece is also going through post-secondary education as a speech language pathologist. She's done the university work; has almost completed a college diploma, and is now getting ready to do a placement in her home town. This summer, when hanging out at her parents' campsite, she mentioned she would like to try working a mixing console (because her dad is musician). I just about fell off my chair (having been doing sound for more than 25 years). So cool she would like to expand her ear training in that way. Anyhow, props to both of you for what you've done--and will do! :)
Great demos as always and great to catch up on Sammy's adventures in higher ed! And... more stuff to try out on an unsuspecting band at the next club gig ;-)
I had the same experience when I attended music production class. I was like.. -"Hey! I know this!" Except now I could put words to what I was doing by feel earlier. So cool.
Dear Dave, thank you so much. Great Feature! In my Soundcraft Ui24R I can patch this without external Splitters. Example: Ch1 post fader to Aux9. Aux9 patched to Ch9 with 3 ms delay. (The Ui24R offers a Delay for each Aux). Ch1 and Ch9 panned LR. Now I mix the general balance only with Ch1 and the rest works in the background. Fantastic ❤ Walter
No one asked, but I use the PA as a re-enforcement tool. Depends largely on the venue, but pan wise, rack tom and floor tom will "probably' get panned away from each other, small venues 2/3 left and right, bigger venues 1/3 away from center. Just cause it makes it a bit interesting. And guitars, what you said, in 100-800ish cap venues, i want to re-enforce what the people in the crowd are hearing. Pan the guitars to the opposite side of the stage so the room sounds balanced. Guitar cabs are basically PA we don't get to control unless you get on with the guitarist/s. only other one, is if there are two backing vocals, like definite dedicated you're definitely only doing backing vocals, then i like to pan them hard left and right A- cause I can, but mainly B - from most of the room there is normally this magical natural chorus effect that happens. And thats nice. Audio is easily the best thing to get into, I am disgruntled with myself for waiting so long until I knew I could make a difference. Anyway, if years are important then happy new year friends. Lets make the world sound better. #linkedincringe
Dave and Sammy, great topic! I fallowed along and am going to experiment more on the use of delay panning here. Thank you for these great educational videos. Cheers from Windsor Ontario !!
Changing the stereo image on an acoustic guitar in the studio environment is also like coupling two different characteristics together. Say if i use the acoustics internal pickup then point a condenser at the twelfth fret, then using the EQ to iron out any twangy frequencies yet they would still sound different. However, i would still use a very slight panning to bring width to the instrument. On saying that, i must try the delay approach and hear how that sounds. (Studio environment). In a live gig... as you said there would need to be a more drastic (aggressive) approach needed. Even then weighing up the live compared to cans it prbably wouldn't be worth the hassle given the distance of each column of speakers.
Thanks for the video, it’s like you’re having a sound tasting session in a kitchen. I learn so much from your video’s that I want to try out on my ui24r, it is awesome!
Excellent! Looking forward to the video where Sam ends up teaching you something cool! haha Cheers to you both and hope you have a stellar 2023! Peace love and thanks! ✌💜🙏
Welcome back, Sammy! I have found that understanding how speech works is helpful for mixing speakers effectively. There's more to it than just providing a mic and turning up the volume. Dave, can these kinds of techniques be used to minimize interference patterns, particularly in the subs like you were investigating in the past three videos? I get some weird hot and cold spots in the room and have been considering doing something like this, either a delay, stereo effect, dual compression, or something to make the left a right different enough to not interfere with each other.
Izotope makes a plugin called ozone imager. Its totally free. If youre interested in panning its a must have. It basically takes a mono signal and whips different frequencies around the stereo field to give the track dimension.
Thank you. For the delays I think we mentioned them. For the rest I kind of used more drastic settings than I would do for a gig, so things were very audible. I just used the channel compressor and put a medium high ratio and set the threshold to get 6 db or so of compression. These settings would vary depending to the instrument but will look into do more indepth and will try and be better at sharing settings
On my new speakers I've noticed the differential EQ panning technique done too aggressively. I thought there was something wrong with my speakers! But atleast now I know what what the producer was trying to do!
Great content! Very interesting! I record every gig I mix. I have been looks for ways to open up the mix without negatively effecting the audience with panning. Could you also mention the setup you did to the X32? Channel inputs, which effect, and perhaps a overhead view to correlate the sound changing with seeing the adjustment in real time. Cool Cool!
For the demo, I split the input to like 12 channels. 1 channel panned R, another panned L, Another pair of channels, one with a dull EQ, one with a bright EQ Another pair has one ch w no delay and the other channel with delay And a pair with comp and no comp I did this so I could easily do the demo. For gigs, either double mic or split the mic to two channels and then you can do whatever different things to each.
Is the stereo mix of music or movies on CD or DVD or streamed usually only level panned or are tactics like delay panning or even EQ panning employed? Especially on sound effects that are originally mono or instruments that are only recorded with one mic. To get the proper delay panning you would have to set up mics with some distance to each other, right? So recordings from mics close to each other only mimic "natural panning" by level panning? I am referring to recorders such as the Zoom H1N. Awesome info btw! Keep it up!
All of the above. Single mic w multiple delays, dual mics at differing distances and or delays. Difering levels and more numerous processing techniques than I even know about, are are used for recordings.
I understand the concepts, but I am curious how it can be put into practice with, say, a band. Are you doing this on the input or output of a mono channel. Would you have to turn every inout into a stereo track and just affect one side to wherever it is routed? Or would you do it on an output to affect everything coming out of that source? I know you can pan a single mono channel, but how would you add delay or compression to that input's signal flow before it hits the L/R? Just curious how you would do it on a console. Like in a real world setting where it is multiple inputs going to multiple outputs. Thanks Dave!
First, doing something does not mean doing everything. Select a one or a few inuts that would benefit from increased stereo imaging and double mic or split the mic to 2 channels and then add the imaging as desired
great take as alway, I don't how to deal with one side effect of delayed channels when they're summed to mono! it sounds nice on sterero but it's clear there's an artifact there when mono, how would one go about this?
Avoid summing the same signal with a delayed version of itself unless you desires phasing sounds. Using two different mics on the instrument that are the same distance from the instrument located in different places of the instrument will give you a stereo effect that can be summed mono
At 15:03, 15:12, 17:10, and 17:14 you are rotating your head L-R-L-R quite quickly whilst listening to the panning effects. Is this a subconscious action to help focus on the differences in sound? As I understand vision, we can kind of have higher resolution in our vision by the subconscious moving of our eyeballs to "sample" more pixels. I'm wondering if that's what you're doing with your ears?
These effects sound so amazing in stereo. I am discouraged by the moon compatibility problems, as I would love to use these effects in recording. Perhaps it’s a bit of experimenting required.
Haas panning isn't necessarily delay based - you can pan a close mic and the perceptual localisation envelope will follow the localisation encoded into the first wavefront - the panning of the earliest arriving signal will generally take precedence.
@@DaveRat some of the auditory illusions based on initial localisation envelope are truly bizarre - you can have a signal coming out of the left speaker sounding like it's coming from the right speaker & proper spooky/trippy catalogues of auditory illusions based on first wavefront and arrival time.
My current curiosity is trying to make 70 volt systems not sound bad. And seeing if messing with freq dependant arrival times can reduce the mushy sound
@@DaveRat mushy 70v…see your transformer split videos? Somebody will come up with a wifi /Bluetooth distro system (maybe a mesh network) that will auto-compensate for ping times between speakers…possibly you. (Your proud papa knob was visibly inching up towards 11 at the beginning of this, with good reason 👍🏻)
You realize your classmates hate you. I worked as a electronic instrumentation tech for 10 years before I went back to get my BSEE. I had to learn to sit on my hand answering questions from the prof. You can kick ass and people will appreciate you on projects.
I’m not sure who is more fortunate, Sammy to have you for a dad investing in a very practical way in her education, our you to have a daughter who values what you do.
Plus the content was fascinating, well explained, and very helpful!
Thanks to both of you.
So cool and thank you Stephen!
As a music producer I have sorely taken panning for granted. You can never learn the basics enough. I'm now inspired to treat each channel more indepently and creativley 🔥
So cool and thank you for the comment, having a positive impact make this worthwhile
Aww man! You were already a cool guy who was a gem for sharing your knowledge…now it turns out you’re a cool DAD who has a daughter (or two) who CLEARLY loves her dad.
Not only was this a fantastic conversation about panning, but it was a lovely moment in time between a father and child. ❤ to your family.
Awesome and thank you and my daughters are my heroes!
Hey Dave. If you have time, I’d be interested in a video of you talking about hearing loss, exposure time to high SPL, ear fatigue, etc. thanks!
Great topics!
I will ponder that. I cover was to deal with using earplugs in the video I did a while back on reference points
Dave your daughter is blessed to have you as a dad! Thanks for teaching me something new!
I am blessed to have her as a daughter
Moments like this are on another level. Father and Daughter quality time. Wow man. I aplaude you Dave. This has my eye kind of tearing and I tell you why. When Dave passes on she will cry like hell but she will take the torch and keep Dave's name much alive. Its awesome to see how she is passionate about this craft which is very complex. She appreciate what her Dad do for a living and thats love. Dave not only you are a humble sound engineer but a great loving Dad and it shows here. Rock on man.
Thank you and so happy to have an awesome family and cheers to you!
Wow! This is a great video explaining different panning. I have a medical condition called TMJ, which is a jaw joint dislocations problem and when the jaw is out of place it also messes with the hearing. The things you show in this video is exactly what goes on with my hearing due to the TMJ. The delay panning perception as well as the one side hearing brighter sounds and the other ear hearing little darker is spot on. Trying to explain to people what’s going on with my hearing due to TMJ is no easy task to do. Now I’d just have show people your video on panning.
Sorry about the medical challenges you face and makes me happy that I can be a part of making things a tiny bit easier
... idk I might be like that too. My jaw changes my ear alot and my stereo image is uneven I think. Hopefully it won't handicap my mixing too badly
Very cool! A guest band engineer was in the other day and he used two slightly different mics on the electric guitar cabinet and delayed one to get an amazingly wide sounding guitar sound that didn't compete as much with the vocal. I thought it was awesome. This video demonstrates in much more detail how that works. Thank you! Looking forward to the next in this series!
Awesome and yeah, in the next vid we combine all the pannings
@@DaveRat How hard do you compress on the compress pan?
And, how does it work using this technique on the entire mix by using groups??
(2 Grps =1 clean for L & 1 compressed for the R master)
Great demo Dave! Love the dad and daughter combo, always entertaining!!
As far as how hard to compress, like 6 to 8db is usually good, 10 db tends to increase room noise from the mic. 3db is pretty subtle
Probably the best way is to either use 2 mics with one having more comp or split the mic to 2 channels and comp one more
I'm glad I caught this video! I've never really messed with Haws Panning before. So, this is the perception of "width". I wonder what the variables are involved for the perception of "depth"?
Depth is a little more complex things like single to noise ratio and dynamic range tend to be associated with it
Never thought about using EQ to accentuate stereo field. Great idea!
👍🔧👍
This video should be a must watch for any live sound mixer
Awesome thank you and spread the word!
Hey Dave...keywestjimmy here. Your panning video is an awesome demo!! Your Haas panning touches on the advantages of the stereophonic signal:
An inverted phase of one channel (in stereophonic reproduction) only represents one condition or possibility, namely 180 degree phase shift, (and all possibilities in between 0 and 180 using the SAME signal) however, true Stereophonic signal uses DIFFERENT signals that have inverted phase relationships. This is what makes stereo unique from dual mono. With a stereophonic signal you are literally propagating in different directions the L,R, in-phase content, the L,R out-of-phase content (which is Haas panning) AND you are propagating the common in-phase L, common in-phase R, which creates the so-call Mid signal (or sum) and common out-of-phase L, and common out-of-phase R which creates the Side signal (or difference).
So, in sound re-enforcement your pa's only propagate L,R signals from 0 to 180 degrees. In stereo your speakers propagate L and R, 0 to 180 AND propagate S and M 0 to 180 degrees.
I have done videos on decorewlaring sound that may interest you
Thanks. I'll take a look.
...my guess is you've found de-correlated signals are advantageous to rid comb filtering and harmful destructive and harmful constructive wave interference. (Esp. in sound re-enforcement) However, what is a real trip (and what fascinates me) is correlation of all stereo signals. By using correlated L,R to M,S magic happens. Go luck looking that up. No literature exists that I know of. Longitudinal phase research is just in its infancy. It's the secret to eliminating the sweet-spot and creating true longitudinal, stereophonic correlation between L and R AND front and back.
Okz I made reddit response #4 vid with the decorelation demo, public for ya
Really cool how the conpression worked. Seems like a silly idea but in practice I really felt it was a sweet musical effect I hadn't come across before, 12 years into mixing/mastering 😄 So thank you Dave!
Cool cool, yeah using it in drums will cause them to swing away from the compressed side
I can't say that I have ever used compression to alter my stereo image, nice video. My favorite part of this was when Sammy said "Noptimum" at 6:41. Cheers you two!
Yes! Noptimum is common saying in the rat homestead. So great you caught that
This is my favorite video of yours. So cool to do this with your daughter!
Dave Rat has such a keen aural sensibility. I never know whether I'm going to love or hate what he says, but I ALWAYS come away with a deeper understanding of sound.
🤙👍🤙
Good stuff, giving away a lot of my mix tricks I’ve been using for years, Delay panning is very powerful live for leaving space in the middle for vocals but equal volume for left and right extremes…
👍⚡👍
Thanks Dave, some interesting alternatives to level panning. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
👍🤙👍
Crazy, loved the haas and compression style, could imagine these on backing vocals to help on wide hall setups!
🤙👍🤙
Dave, I've watched some 4 or 5 videos of yours over the last year and it is UNCANNY how they're 15-20 minutes long and they just breeze by as if they were 4 mins each, in spite of all the information you imprint in them.
That's a huge, huge win, man!
Congrats and keep up the awesome work! =)
So cool and thank you. Doing long format videos in a world of TikTok seems the wrong way to go but I think it's important to share the understanding behind the concept when I can rather than just what happens
Nahh, I'm sure at some point the industry will circle back to long ass formats and yours is a (kinda) long that feels short, so you're ahead of the game!
I sent you a message on IG, so not to spam the comments here =)
Great stuff. I've used Haas panning during mixing on occasion, but utilizing compression as an imaging tool never occurred to me. I'm looking forward to part 2.
Awesome, let me know if ya use it and how it works
Thanks Dave. I just got into live mixing for 2 weeks. Been watching a lot of your videos which is super helpful and opened my mind. Very fun and interesting videos!
Cool cool and thank you Kurt!
I took a short break for the day from producing and I'm so glad I did because I found your videos and this stuff is absolute gold really.
👍🤙🤙
An interesting thing to note about using EQ to create stereo separation is it's not just about tonal differences between channels. It's also phase shift, creating a "hole in the middle" at some frequencies. The energy is still there but your brain picks up the phase shift. I remember trying a pair of filter that could yield a wide-band +-45-degree phase shifts to reduce the center buildup affect on a mix. The sound was unnaturally "wide".
Agreed
This is really cool to watch! I don't have the ability to create sound demonstrations like these so I deeply enjoy this sort of lab science being applied to sound. Just the ability to tinker with different settings and learning what they do and how they work is awesome! I'm with Sammy in how the one side eq'ed against the other side made bright really sounded awful. I think that's because I brain is telling me that I'm experiencing hear loss in one ear. Please keep this series going. This was a really fantastic to dive into the audio lab with Dave.
👍🤙👍
you guys are awesome. you and your daughter are cool as hell dude, dad of the year award for sure XD
Thank you big smile!
Amazing! my ears and mind are being opened up!
🤙👍👍
Great demonstration! heyho Dave hello Sammy…. cheers from Berlin
hey thanx, very valuable info here, cheers from Chile!
Awesome and Buenos! Mi gusta Chile!!
So great to share with us.
Eq and comp !! The result is fantastic. Thanks both a you.
Awesome and thank you!
I don't know how you did the sound for the video, or how you recorded the audio in the room....but this is genius. I watched like I was learning panning for the first time...the kid in me when I discovered music production came out. THANK YOU!!
Wow and thank you!!
My niece is also going through post-secondary education as a speech language pathologist. She's done the university work; has almost completed a college diploma, and is now getting ready to do a placement in her home town.
This summer, when hanging out at her parents' campsite, she mentioned she would like to try working a mixing console (because her dad is musician). I just about fell off my chair (having been doing sound for more than 25 years). So cool she would like to expand her ear training in that way.
Anyhow, props to both of you for what you've done--and will do! :)
So cool! Perhaps our daughters would want to chat and share info?
@@DaveRat Perhaps as a comparison between Canadian and American education? That would be interesting. :)
My email is drat@aol.com send me an email and I can pass on my daughters' email and see if they want to connect.
Another amazing information packed video Dave thank you....
Thank you
You are awesome to watch interacting w your kids. Absolutely lovely.
Really love watching you. Greetz from Germany and a Happy New Year!
Thank you Axel and Happy New Year!
Fantastic explaination. Thank you
🤙👍🤙
Brilliant conversation and examples! Thanks so much for this!
Thank you Stewart!
This video is beautiful in so many ways!!
🤙👍🤙
Super! It was very interesting to see! Stereo with a compressor - great!
👍🤙👍
Great demos as always and great to catch up on Sammy's adventures in higher ed! And... more stuff to try out on an unsuspecting band at the next club gig ;-)
Cool cool Cory let me know how it goes
Dave, The bonding Is Beautiful. Great Video. Glad I Heard Sub 100hz Tones again. I need to watch More of Your Videos!
Awesome video on stereo image techniques. Thanks for sharing your experience with the world.
Wonderful and thank you! Please share the channel, I so appreciate it!
Always fantastic Mr. Rat
Thank you!!
I had the same experience when I attended music production class. I was like.. -"Hey! I know this!" Except now I could put words to what I was doing by feel earlier. So cool.
⚡🤙🤙⚡
Dear Dave, thank you so much. Great Feature! In my Soundcraft Ui24R I can patch this without external Splitters. Example: Ch1 post fader to Aux9. Aux9 patched to Ch9 with 3 ms delay. (The Ui24R offers a Delay for each Aux). Ch1 and Ch9 panned LR. Now I mix the general balance only with Ch1 and the rest works in the background. Fantastic ❤ Walter
🤙🤙🤙
This was amazing, you have given me such an awesome set of tools to reconsider the way I design sound for artists. Thank you!
Excellent!!
This is incredibly interesting! Thanks for the video.
Also loved the energy, hope to see more interesting requests from sammy!
Me too!
i dream of that life with my kids. love it
🤙👍🤙
Happy new year. Welcome back. Wonderful Heritage background!! ✨✨🎶🎶
🔧😃🔧
No one asked, but I use the PA as a re-enforcement tool. Depends largely on the venue, but pan wise, rack tom and floor tom will "probably' get panned away from each other, small venues 2/3 left and right, bigger venues 1/3 away from center. Just cause it makes it a bit interesting. And guitars, what you said, in 100-800ish cap venues, i want to re-enforce what the people in the crowd are hearing. Pan the guitars to the opposite side of the stage so the room sounds balanced. Guitar cabs are basically PA we don't get to control unless you get on with the guitarist/s. only other one, is if there are two backing vocals, like definite dedicated you're definitely only doing backing vocals, then i like to pan them hard left and right A- cause I can, but mainly B - from most of the room there is normally this magical natural chorus effect that happens. And thats nice.
Audio is easily the best thing to get into, I am disgruntled with myself for waiting so long until I knew I could make a difference. Anyway, if years are important then happy new year friends.
Lets make the world sound better. #linkedincringe
🤙👍🤙
Fantastic idea Dave 👍🏻
🤙👍🤙
Dave and Sammy, great topic! I fallowed along and am going to experiment more on the use of delay panning here. Thank you for these great educational videos. Cheers from Windsor Ontario !!
Hell yeah and stay warm, love Canada!
Awesome intro stories 🤘💀🍻🔥
🤙👍🤙
Changing the stereo image on an acoustic guitar in the studio environment is also like coupling two different characteristics together. Say if i use the acoustics internal pickup then point a condenser at the twelfth fret, then using the EQ to iron out any twangy frequencies yet they would still sound different. However, i would still use a very slight panning to bring width to the instrument. On saying that, i must try the delay approach and hear how that sounds. (Studio environment). In a live gig... as you said there would need to be a more drastic (aggressive) approach needed. Even then weighing up the live compared to cans it prbably wouldn't be worth the hassle given the distance of each column of speakers.
Thanks for the video, it’s like you’re having a sound tasting session in a kitchen. I learn so much from your video’s that I want to try out on my ui24r, it is awesome!
👍🤙👍👍
Awesome content as usual Rat Man 👍🏻
Thank you Bobby
Very interesting and very well explained!! Can you talk about panning techniques for recording and mixing?
Studio has a lot more freedom asnd live sound needs to be more creative as live is looking at stereo image and coverage while studio is mainly imaging
Excellent! Looking forward to the video where Sam ends up teaching you something cool! haha Cheers to you both and hope you have a stellar 2023! Peace love and thanks! ✌💜🙏
Cool cool Steve
Thanks Dave!! Always making the world a cool cooler place
⚡👍⚡
Excellent Video Dave. Thanks 4 tha lesson.
⚡🤙⚡
Amazing! I love the outdo as well!
👍⚡👍
Dave, this video is amazing. I can't wait for the next vid. Thanks so much.
👍🤙👍
Really great video! And what a cool AI demonstrational riff!👌🤟
Awesome and thank you!
Please more about this topic! This is very interesting!
Maybe some real examples on how using panning in concerts?
I will do more
Thanks guys, I love you. I am so impressed and inspired from your experience❤.
👍🤙👍
You are great Dave, it’s always super interesting content, and with your daughter, it’s gold
Thank you and agreed!
great video detailing haas panning wow !
👍🔧👍🔧
Another awesome video. Thank you, Dave and Sammy!
👍👍🔧
Welcome back, Sammy! I have found that understanding how speech works is helpful for mixing speakers effectively. There's more to it than just providing a mic and turning up the volume.
Dave, can these kinds of techniques be used to minimize interference patterns, particularly in the subs like you were investigating in the past three videos? I get some weird hot and cold spots in the room and have been considering doing something like this, either a delay, stereo effect, dual compression, or something to make the left a right different enough to not interfere with each other.
I will show better ways in future sub vids
@@DaveRat Like, like, like, like - Coolios!
👍🤙👍
Wow - very cool techniques!
👍🤙👍
You really spend some time in/with Stereo...
Very interesting Video... keep up that awesome content.
Big thumbs up
Thank you Zac!
Thank you so much for making this video!
Super interesting! Thank you for that
Izotope makes a plugin called ozone imager. Its totally free. If youre interested in panning its a must have. It basically takes a mono signal and whips different frequencies around the stereo field to give the track dimension.
This is amazing, really enjoyed this demonstration - thanks.
👍🤙👍
Love this! Wish I could bring my children on tour with me.
Awesome tutorial. I wish that you explained what settings you used on the X32.
Thank you. For the delays I think we mentioned them. For the rest I kind of used more drastic settings than I would do for a gig, so things were very audible.
I just used the channel compressor and put a medium high ratio and set the threshold to get 6 db or so of compression.
These settings would vary depending to the instrument but will look into do more indepth and will try and be better at sharing settings
@@DaveRat a top down camera of the console would be very helpful!!
Mind blown!
👍🤙👍
Great video!
👍👍👍
👍👍👍 Craig Bess
This is awesome. Great subject.
🔧👍🔧 thank you Steve
Noptimum - I'm using that one from now on!
Noptimum and not an issue we use nissue
Uau... great stuff. Next show I will try some of this tricks. Thank you and keep Rock'in
Awesome!!
Waow 🤘🏼🤘🏼 , would you explain , how much time for attack and release with the compressor engaged ?
Will see what I can do
On my new speakers I've noticed the differential EQ panning technique done too aggressively. I thought there was something wrong with my speakers! But atleast now I know what what the producer was trying to do!
🤙👍🤙
Excellent video - so much good information! It will help me a lot for further projects. Thanks!!!!
Awesome as always! Also is your background the console you used with Chili Peppers at the end?
Yes
Fantastic!
🤙👍🤙
That was cool!
Awesome!
What behringer console are you using?
Would you recommend a console for someone just starting out?
an easy-to-operate console with a low price
Hey thank you so much for doing this video!!
Cool cool thank you!
Great content! Very interesting!
I record every gig I mix. I have been looks for ways to open up the mix without negatively effecting the audience with panning.
Could you also mention the setup you did to the X32? Channel inputs, which effect, and perhaps a overhead view to correlate the sound changing with seeing the adjustment in real time.
Cool Cool!
For the demo, I split the input to like 12 channels. 1 channel panned R, another panned L,
Another pair of channels, one with a dull EQ, one with a bright EQ
Another pair has one ch w no delay and the other channel with delay
And a pair with comp and no comp
I did this so I could easily do the demo.
For gigs, either double mic or split the mic to two channels and then you can do whatever different things to each.
Is the stereo mix of music or movies on CD or DVD or streamed usually only level panned or are tactics like delay panning or even EQ panning employed? Especially on sound effects that are originally mono or instruments that are only recorded with one mic. To get the proper delay panning you would have to set up mics with some distance to each other, right? So recordings from mics close to each other only mimic "natural panning" by level panning? I am referring to recorders such as the Zoom H1N.
Awesome info btw! Keep it up!
All of the above. Single mic w multiple delays, dual mics at differing distances and or delays. Difering levels and more numerous processing techniques than I even know about, are are used for recordings.
That was. Comprehensive and👍👍
🤙👍🤙
You thank much very, Yoda.
🤙🤙🤙 Sam!
I understand the concepts, but I am curious how it can be put into practice with, say, a band. Are you doing this on the input or output of a mono channel. Would you have to turn every inout into a stereo track and just affect one side to wherever it is routed? Or would you do it on an output to affect everything coming out of that source? I know you can pan a single mono channel, but how would you add delay or compression to that input's signal flow before it hits the L/R? Just curious how you would do it on a console.
Like in a real world setting where it is multiple inputs going to multiple outputs.
Thanks Dave!
First, doing something does not mean doing everything.
Select a one or a few inuts that would benefit from increased stereo imaging and double mic or split the mic to 2 channels and then add the imaging as desired
great take as alway, I don't how to deal with one side effect of delayed channels when they're summed to mono! it sounds nice on sterero but it's clear there's an artifact there when mono, how would one go about this?
Avoid summing the same signal with a delayed version of itself unless you desires phasing sounds.
Using two different mics on the instrument that are the same distance from the instrument located in different places of the instrument will give you a stereo effect that can be summed mono
At 15:03, 15:12, 17:10, and 17:14 you are rotating your head L-R-L-R quite quickly whilst listening to the panning effects. Is this a subconscious action to help focus on the differences in sound? As I understand vision, we can kind of have higher resolution in our vision by the subconscious moving of our eyeballs to "sample" more pixels. I'm wondering if that's what you're doing with your ears?
I was trying to kind of follow the primary source of where the music sounded it was coming from to show that it was jumping back and forth
These effects sound so amazing in stereo. I am discouraged by the moon compatibility problems, as I would love to use these effects in recording. Perhaps it’s a bit of experimenting required.
Yes!!
Haas panning isn't necessarily delay based - you can pan a close mic and the perceptual localisation envelope will follow the localisation encoded into the first wavefront - the panning of the earliest arriving signal will generally take precedence.
😆
Yes, but isn't that just still creating the delay by positioning rather than electronically?
@@DaveRat some of the auditory illusions based on initial localisation envelope are truly bizarre - you can have a signal coming out of the left speaker sounding like it's coming from the right speaker & proper spooky/trippy catalogues of auditory illusions based on first wavefront and arrival time.
My current curiosity is trying to make 70 volt systems not sound bad. And seeing if messing with freq dependant arrival times can reduce the mushy sound
@@DaveRat mushy 70v…see your transformer split videos?
Somebody will come up with a wifi /Bluetooth distro system (maybe a mesh network) that will auto-compensate for ping times between speakers…possibly you.
(Your proud papa knob was visibly inching up towards 11 at the beginning of this, with good reason 👍🏻)
You realize your classmates hate you. I worked as a electronic instrumentation tech for 10 years before I went back to get my BSEE. I had to learn to sit on my hand answering questions from the prof. You can kick ass and people will appreciate you on projects.
Great Video. 😃👍♥️
👍🤙👍