An Earnest Challenge To Our Charismatic Friends
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- Опубликовано: 23 мар 2023
- Little brings more disagreement between Christians than the topic of speaking in tongues. In today's video, Todd presents several thoughtful questions for our charismatic friends to consider on the topic.
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Wretched TV and Radio are hosted by Todd Friel. On the show, you will see and hear live witnessing encounters, discussions of tough theological issues, and Christian commentary on current events. We might even make you laugh.
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I walked into a Church service in out back Australia. The Pastor prayed in Maori my language. I translated for him; Jesus is Lord
Kia ora fellow New Zealander! 😊
Cool story
Chur bro 3much
Shamala hamala!
Hmmm.. one can claim anything on a RUclips channel.
To whoever reads this don’t be discouraged if you don’t speak in a tongue. True evidence that you are Born Again Christian is the the fruit you bear and your love for Christ. God bless you
Correct. Tongues are not evidence. It's merely one of the gifts that God has created. Do you live your life according to Christ's teachings? Your life is the evidence.
Also @living revelation One can have assurances and comfort when one sees oneself following Him by His grace & by His help, but at no time are we to be discouraged because of fiery trials and finding ourselves sinning that we just wind up believing we are not saved at all. The fact that we believe is the manifested work of the Father & may He remind us to keep going to Jesus Christ for help in our times of need.
John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. 27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:... 11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.
Galatians 5:1Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage..... 5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
1 John 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure..... 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
John 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
2 Timothy 4:18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
Jude 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, 25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.
Paul taught that each person had their own gifts.
@@eddieboggs8306 The problem is that apostate calling of seeking that baptism of the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues at their salvation which started at that Azusa Street Revival; they are committing spiritual adultery per Matthew 12:38 Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee. 39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: 40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
Therefore we are to receive Him by faith in Jesus Christ & not by an outward sign.
Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.
Galatians 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith..... 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
That apostate calling promise no other gift but that tongue which never comes with interpretation because it is just gibberish nonsense and not the real God's gift of tongues of other men's lips to speak unto the people. Better to shun that tongue and know what you had prayed for to give the Father thanks in Jesus's name for known answers to prayers.
At Azusa Street Revival, they also had "being drunk in the Holy Spirit" and variations of holy laughter & slain in the spirit for why God is not the author of confusion not even for tongues for private use when it comes with no interpretation.
Owhh tricky, because what are the fruits of the Spirits exactly?? And if you don't speak in tongues, can you be sure that you are Born again?
I learned that the gift of speaking in tongues is different from praying in tongues. Speaking requires interpretation while praying is for only God to understand when words aren’t enough. The Bible encourages all believers to pray in tongues which indirectly means every believer CAN PRAY in tongues.
My 12 y.o. son went to teens camp just recently.
For a long time he had deformed bone in his foot and frequent pains because of it. It was visibly sticking out from the side. At camp God did many miracles, many children received healing, including Edward. That sticking bone somehow moved into place and he has no pain anymore. Same evening many teens, including Edward, were baptized with Holy Spirit, and they had desire to pray for hours well past midnight. Counselors couldn't stop them from praying. 😀 I look at his foot now and still don't understand how it it's possible, but it happened. I've never seen anything like that. Sometimes we can't understand God's ways with our own human limited understanding. I am infinitely grateful to God for taking away the pain from my child.
To answer your questions:
1. Have you ever seen or heard an interpreter at a gathering where tongues speaking occurred?
Yes. On at least 4 or more occasions. Twice that I remember in my church growing up. Once at an equipping event in Kansas, and once at a home group meeting. At the Kansas event, someone stood and spoke loudly in tongues. 15 seconds or so later someone stood and interpreted it. What was interesting is that a friend of mine had been praying to receive the interpretation and he almost stood when he heard an interpretation, but didn't. Then the other person stood up and gave the interpretation. My friend confirmed that what that person said was exactly what he heard from the Lord. We didn't know each other when this happens. We became friends days later during this event and he told me this months after.
The home group meeting was also interesting. About 8-10 of us were there, the woman speaking in tongues was an older lady and she spoke to herself while we were worshipping. The group leader stopped and had a big cheesy grin on his face as he watched her finish her prayer, he is Brazilian. When she was done he said "hallelujah!"
She opened her eyes to him staring at her and said "what?" almost laughing.
"You spoke Portuguese!"
"I DID??!!"
"Yes. You did" and he went on to interpret what was said.
2. How does modern day tongues edify you if it is for the edification of the body.
Simple. 1 Corinthians 14:1-5
"Pursue love, and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, especially that you may prophesy. For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit. On the other hand, the one who prophesies speaks to people for their upbuilding and encouragement and consolation. The one who speaks in a tongue builds up himself, but the one who prophesies builds up the church. Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be built up."
He is basically saying that speaking in tongues builds you up. It strengthens your spirit when speaking directly to God. Tongues in private is for this purpose. Personal spiritual building up. But this whole chapter, 1 Corinthians 14 is talking about speaking in tongues at church. Without an interpreter, it benefits no one but you. So when spoken in the church, let someone interpret it. There is more than one use for speaking in tongues. It is not ONLY for the edification of the body of Christ. It serves the purpose of personal edification as well.
Personal praying in tongues is not for teaching you about anything, it is for building up your spirit and letting the holy spirit intercede.
3. How do you explain the same "tongues" in other religions?
I'll ask this. How do you explain the miracles the anti-christ will do, or people who get healed by voodoo or reiki? 2 Thessalonians 2:9 says the anti-christ is coming by "the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders." The devil has a counterfeit for everything the Lord has made, including tongues. And I've even heard that Hitler, who was heavily into the occult, and some of our modern day celebrities have been heard speaking in demonic tongues. The only reason they can do it is because God created it first. The devil hijacked it for his purposes just like healings, signs and wonders. This does not mean either are pretending. It does mean there are counterfeits and this is what discernment is for.
4. The nature of spiritual gifts
You are correct in that the spirit gives us our gifts. I've never heard of tongues classes until this video. I've never seen any so I agree, that is weird. I've only seen tongues activations and I myself have activated someone in the gift of tongues. But when I say "activated" this is done through prayer and leading the person in freedom to speak and either they get it or they don't because it's not up to me. I've done this twice. One person received it, the other didn't. And I've seen this only done once at another event in a similar way, but this person went down a line of 15 or so people praying. A handful received it. And this is because it's not up to us. It is a gift of God.
5. Tongues can't be learned
This wasn't really a question but I agree. Tongues is a gift of God manifested by the spirit. It is not something you can learn.
6. Witness of church history
Jesus was outside of orthodoxy. And he didn't wait 2000 years for anything. Just as there are testaments of healings over the years, there are testaments of tongues. It's just that deniers tend to speak louder than believers in these areas. And they are many.
For anyone who desires the gift of tongues, it is absolutely for you and a gift of God. Ask and you shall receive. That's what I did. And I didn't get right away and it wasn't some crazy shaking in my body and my tongue didn't move on it's own. I had been praying to receive it for a few weeks and I was worshipping in church one day and felt the leading of God to begin speaking and I received it then. The service was loud enough that no one else could hear me. He gave it to me for me in that moment, not for interpretation. Paul's himself says "Now I want you all to speak in tongues..." In 1: Cor 14. It is for everyone, anytime anywhere for the building up of the spirit and the edification of the body.
My mom (who is a very meek and conservative Christian woman) told me that she once spoke in tongues when she was alone praying in her room as a teenager, and that it was as if she could feel a fountain of healing and joy come over her.
On the other hand, she later went to a church where they were speaking in tongues and it made her feel very uncomfortable, and it seemed forced or phony to her.
Tongues=languages
Tongues; however good tongues that was that Paul wrote about that he was referring to, were still a lesser gift, and Paul said to pursue the greater gifts. (By the way, that's scripture saying that the various gifts were something of a choice; which seems to me like a paradox, that God would give believers even any kind of choice in the matter.) ...Anyways; sounds like your mom may had some wisdom to value what was more of eternal value.
I agree man. .real tougues are supernatural not from the flesh. Many speak from the flesh because they try and rush the work of the spirit.
@@fade777777 Might well be a good question to ask if someone curious about tongues has some intention of unnecessarily "rushing the work of The Holy Spirit". Good to seek after God like David who thirsted like a deer for water. Psalms 42:1, Matthew 5:6, Psalms 51:17
@@thomasrechenmacher8093 What makes you think that's what they were doing at Corinth. Is it reasonable to believe that people miraculously speaking known, verifiable languages was so big a problem that Paul had to give that much ink to tongues. And some of the things he says only make sense if he's dealing with gibberish.
Been having this question lately, and never wanted to ask my church growing up but I use to get so scared when people fell out on the floor and I thought I was not saved if I didn’t do it 😭 but Christ definitely helped me get some good theology from the Word and brothers and sisters from Wretched radio thank God!!
Falling on the floor is definitely not in Scripture, unless it's under self control, dropping face down on the knees or completely prostrate, exhibiting complete submission to the Lord after the manner of the patriarchs and the prophets.
I don't think that's what the contemporady people do though, is it?
Visited my neighbors Church- Terrified me. People falling, rolling on the floor, all talking gibberish- I was scared and ran right out of the Church- even as a fairly new Christian I knew this was demonic! Yikes! This was about 20+ years ago.
Dude.. it's simple.. the word says.. the spirit is submissive to the flesh.
Many fall because of peer pressure.. Don't fall for it.
Don't walk away from these groups.
Run!
It was early 1984, probably around February March. Can’t remember. I had just given my life to Jesus a few months earlier in 1983. I was 16 at the time, in my last year of school. I joined a vibrant youth group at a Baptist Church close to my boarding house. The church itself was a very traditional Baptist Church so, exploring spiritual gifts was not encouraged. My friends and I were very curious about what we read in the Bible regarding tongues etc. So alone in my room one evening, no hype, no laying on of hands or emotional manipulation. I simply asked Jesus if I could also speak in tongues like Paul did. The reason I asked was because when I prayed in my own language I would eventually run out of things to say. And I read that Paul said to pray in the spirit at all times, and that he prayed more than anyone in the church. I liked the idea that in my weakness the Holy Spirit could still pray through me. So I opened my mouth and the words came. 40 years later the words are still coming. 99% of the time I don’t understand what I’m saying but, the yearning in my heart sometimes tells me what I’m praying about though, and that’s great!
I’m not big on the public display of tongues, especially when it seems the speaker uses it to draw attention to themselves. I would prefer accurate prophetic words that, like Paul says, edifies people and convicts sinners. Tongues for me is more about my personal relationship with God. That said, I will never presume that God only uses His gifts in a certain way. He’s way bigger than that!
We went to Jack Hayford's "Church on the Way" in the 1980s to hear teaching on gifts of the Holy Spirit. After Pastor Jack's teaching, those interested were ushered into a large side room to explore tongues further. To "practice" in a non-threatening environment. All were encouraged to just "open your mouth and just let it happen", speak whatever comes out. Chaotic babbling followed. Those not able to join in freely were encouraged by an assistant pastor to "fake it until you make it." It was at that point we excused ourselves and came to a rather firm conviction about what charismatics call the gift of tongues. You can imagine what that conviction is.
"Fake it until you make it" should not have been said, to be sure. But as for tongues for personal edification -consider
the scriptures that say:
"he speaks to God" "he speaks mysteries" "he edifies himself" "You give thanks well" "I pray in tongues more than ye all"
These scriptures are all referring to the personal tongue. 1 Cor 14 is a back and forth between the tongue for personal edification and the tongue for interpretation (which equals prophecy when interpreted) because people were showing up to church speaking in their personal tongue which would be confusing in a public service.
Your spiritual mind is in your natural mind, cell for cell. Tongues is a way for God to get your spirit alone with Him without your natural mind filtering it wrong. Then, when edified enough, God reveals a mystery to you -something of Christ in you, the hope of glory to pull down the strongholds in the natural mind that come from it filtering God's word wrong.
Only experience I had with tongues was an incident when I knew I had to pray. I didn't know about what, but the Holy Spirit kept overwhelming. I pulled my car over, started to pray, and I involuntarily started praying in tongues. I later found out that a friend of mine had a medical emergency at the very same time. This experience aligned perfectly with Romans 8:26 - "In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans."
While I have no reason to believe that the gifts of the Spirit have ceased, it appears that many have perverted these gifts over time.
I am not a cessationist.. but I will not call myself a charismatic. I have yet to see any of these gifts being real. Not saying they can’t happen.
@@ShepherdMinistry You and I are on the same page then 😂 I'm either the least charismatic, or the least cessationist. Probably more of a cessationist though, even though I got to a Calvary Chapel.
I’m more in line with Paul Washer’s view on tongues, not a cessationist. Have yet to actually meet someone who speaks in tongues biblically
@@ShepherdMinistry Come to my church.
Why would they have ceased? Is God's power so limited that He cannot use men in the same way today as He did in the Book of Acts church? Do God or His ways change?
When I was 19, I went to a youth meeting. we were in a circle praying, I was just sitting there waiting my turn, thinking about what to pray about. I was really hungry for the Lord at the time. Anyway.. when it came to my turn to pray. I said a few words in English, then all of a sudden I was FILLED with the holy spirit and started praying in tongues. No one put their hands on me, and NO one told me to repeat after them, the tongues came out effortlessly without me thinking how to pronounce them or what to say next. I could stop at any time, But I didn't want to, So I got up and sat in the corner of the room continuing to pray in tongues and experience the most amazing life-changing touch of the Holy Spirit. Since then my life has never been the same. Whatever the arguments for or against I CAN NEVER deny my personal experience. Bless you, all.
Just a quick question, not making fun and would love a response. What is more important, what the Bible says or how you feel and your experiences?
So what globally recognized, linguistically documented language was it you spoke in? Because that was the phenomenon that occurred in Acts.
@Cory Britton I don't know, man.. all I know is what I experienced. 100% wasn't fake, and my life was changed from then on to the Glory of God. I was filled with his Holy Spirit.
@Terry Burton it's not what I felt. It's what I experienced. I wasn't looking for it. It just happened. I was seeking Jesus. And he filled me with his Holy Spirit, and I spoke in tongues.. in FACT, I thought much like many of you that toungues were strange.. but here I am. I wasn't seeking kundalinu or something like that.. it was a bible believing church, and to be honest they didn'tnt really speak in toungues as a congragation.. i was simply seeking Jesus with a pure heart. And I was filled.. with immense power. The power of the Holy Spirit.
@@fade777777 my question is, if it’s against the scripture can it be the Holy Spirit? Can a persons experience and feelings override the word of God?
Appreciate your kindness and brotherly love towards those who disagree with you Todd. Your patience is truly a gift. I know you get a lot of flack for your classical reformed beliefs as I do as well but I hope to answer back as kind and gentle as you do. Peace brother🙏
That's why I stoped speaking in "tongues" when I was confronted with reasonable and biblical arguments concerning modern day glossolalia.
Why did you in the first place?
@@victorbennett5414 I stuck with God's word.
What ?it can be learned and also can be stopped whenever you want it?
I’m 70 and was raised in a small town pentecostal church. I recall as a child the tongue speaking and then several folks getting slain in the spirit (supposedly). I recall that us kids would huddle in the back corner scared to death. It had frighted me and disturbed me so bad I actually was afraid with animosity so bad I I didn’t want to get involved in churches for many years. I eventually got saved and joined a Baptist church. I now study the Bible, am involved very much in Gods church. I also follow/listen/watch (on YT) several preachers (biblical expositors) such as RC Sproal, J MacArthur, Steve Lawson, Paul Washer, Voddie Baucham and others on a weekly basis. I have not been convinced that the tongue speaking and slain in the spirit is actually at all biblical for our time. I enjoy and have learned much from Wretched🙌🏼🙏🏼🙌🏼
I agree…and have a similar experience with multiple church experiences while growing up. From charismatic to seeker sensitive churches. I have sense been saved and listen to the same men you do.
Please don't forget
1 Corinthians 12
Ephesians 4
Colossians 1
I interpreted a tongue once.
I was in a prayer meeting early in the morning. A woman in the corner was speaking in a unknown tongue.
I heard her clearly, in English, "I must draw near to God." I was blown away!
I only interpreted a tongue once.
@@Outrjs Interesting. Can I ask how did you know that you interpreted it right? Did you ask them after? Also did you hear the words in your language or a different one (human language or other)? I have been curious about this stuff because I just want to know the truth to it
@Michael Peterson It was clearly an unknown tongue. I heard her. I didn't think anything of it as she was speaking. But then, 5 minutes later I heard her in English. Clear as day. "I must draw near to God."
I did not ask her because she probably didn't know what she was saying.
I truly heard her.
My dad was raised Pentecostal, but from the time I was born in 1970 until the early 80's he didn't go to church anywhere. He was robbed at gunpoint and figured he came so close to death...he'd better get right with God. He started going to a Pentecostal church in the small town where I grew up. I started to go with him for a while. I saw all of that as well...the tongues and the slain in the spirit stuff and was a little freaked out by it myself. I was told by the Pentecostals that you have to have the Holy Ghost to go to Heaven and you speak in tongues when you have the Holy Ghost. Well I had asked Christ into my heart years before that and loved the Lord with all my heart. I knew I was a sinner and didn't deserve it but I trusted in Him and had faith (still do)...and I never spoke in tongues even after praying for it if that's what it took and I never felt moved in such a way as to be "slain in the spirit." There has never been an interpreter any time I've ever witnessed "tongues" either in person or otherwise. I never heard my dad speak in tongues. I asked him once as a young teenager if he ever did and he said that he did. I'm not saying any of that isn't biblical or genuine in those who speak in tongues or get slain in the spirit....I just know it never happened to me and I prayed for it. I also love those same pastors you mentioned.
I literally just came home from having dinner with my dad where we talked about this very thing. What timing!!
Thanks for the video and for leaving the comments open. These are some really great points for people who pray in tongues to consider. However, with all love, we must be careful we don’t cherry-pick Scriptures in such a way that it appears that the Scriptures are actually in contradiction. In general, I don’t believe that the Scriptures are in contradiction; rather, when they appear to be, it is our understanding or interpretation that must change. This topic of tongues may be more nuanced than we think and should be approached the same we do other “difficult” themes. For example, the word “Trinity” is not found in the Bible, nor is there a clear explanation of what it is. However, it is clear in both the OT and NT that the Godhead is true, even though it's beyond our complete understanding. It's the same with the idea of there being three types of law: moral, civil, and ceremonial. This is not explicitly stated, but with a sober look at the Scriptures, we see this to be true and can rightly be declared. Jesus fulfilled the ceremonial law so that we can be justified before God, the civil law is good, but we are not in Theocratic Israel, and we are still obligated as God-fearing people to honor and obey the moral law (ten commandments). This pattern and practice of putting context and understanding to themes such as the Trinity and the Law should also be applied to this topic on “tongues,” in my opinion.
On the surface, It appears that the Scripture contradicts itself on this topic, such as in 1 Corinthians 14, where Paul says that tongues are a sign for the unbeliever, but then just after that says that if you are speaking in tongues when an unbeliever walks in won’t they think that you are out of your mind? Or when Paul says, “do all speak in tongues? No,” but then later says, “I wish you all spoke in tongues;” Is Paul wishing the believer would do something against what the Lord commanded? Are the scriptures in contradiction? Or should we humble ourselves and apply the same common sense approach we take with the law and the Trinity and apply it here? Either the scriptures have contradicted themselves, and are thus not divinely inspired, or our understanding should change.
It appears to me that the scriptures don’t contradict; rather, there are different “types” of tongues, just as there are different “types” of the Law (moral, civil, and ceremonial).
We see some examples of "tongues" in different contexts:
1) Tongues as a “sign.” Examples are at Pentecost when the men heard the apostles speaking miraculously in their native tongues. This is probably the tongues Paul mentions that are for unbelievers.
2) Tongues as an edifying message to the Church Body. These tongues are not human language and must be followed by an interpretation in the native language. Paul says this is equal to prophecy.
3) Tongues as a private prayer language. Paul says, “I pray in tongues more than you all,” and “I wish that you all spoke in tongues.” Romans 8 says, “Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.” The idea of having a private way of communicating to God is not all that strange considering the "new name" given by the Lord to us in Revelation 2, that only we (the Lord and us) understand.
4) Possibly others? Maybe, but 3 seems a consistent number of completion found in the Scriptures.
I loved your point on having 10 “interpreters” give their interpretation, and let’s see if they all line up. This is a great point and one that would expose a lot of fraudulence among the tongue-speaking charismatic churches. I heard a Pentecostal brother, who was very skeptical of everyone falling in prayer lines, say sarcastically, “how about we lay everyone down on the ground, and if the Lord touches them, they will come flying up!” I think there is a lot of abuse in many churches on these things; some are innocent, well-intentioned believers who mean well, but have gotten caught up in the foolishness. Others are not so innocent and have been sent by the evil one as wolves in sheep’s clothing to add further confusion to the Body. "Tongues as a sign" are the rarest we see because they cannot be faked. It’s either a miracle of a real human language, or it is not. Unfortunately, the others are often faked. This is where spiritual discernment must come in, as well as honoring the Lord’s lesson that we will know them by their fruit. The churches you guys criticize the most are in great error and are in urgent need of repentance and a return to the Word of God. But there are, in fact, genuine believers, who read, honor, and obey the Scriptures, that speak in tongues and they do it “decently and in order” and have genuine fruit vindicating their lives.
Personally, praying in tongues and in my native language has greatly enriched my private prayer life and has drawn me closer to God. I don’t believe you need to pray in tongues to be saved, but I do believe we should want whatever the Lord has for us. I hope you all will excuse my poor grammar/writing and consider what I’ve shared with the same open mind Todd asked us to have when watching the video. And wow, this got very long; much more to say (and for me to learn), but not on here. Blessings!
Thank you. I really appreciate you sharing this 🙏🏾. Very very scripturally rooted and balanced 🙏🏾
Great response.
But how do you know God wants us to do modern tongues? just because you do it doesn't mean it's from God. My church says you must get Wesley's sanctification as a second work of grace to even be able to be filled with the spirit and we know that is nowhere is scripture but people claim GOD gave them sanctification all at once in an alter call. People will always produce the teachings of a church because they want to fit in. Teach tongues and people will do it, teach planting seeds in the word of Fatih movement and they will give. teach the sinners prayer will save you and people will claim the got saved reciting it. it's all in what you teach. People believe in God so they will produce whatever you teach them to do. teach them to fall out in the spirit and they will fall, teach them to laugh in the spirit and they will laugh. it's crowd control 101.
Thank you for taking the time to write that loving response Matt! I really appreciate it and it cleared up a lot of confusion for me! Blessings to you as well Matt and may the peace of our Lord Jesus Christ rest with you! :)
@@Michael-le5ph No it's not Crowd control, it's what in the scriptures, the bible talks about it's doctrines that just some choose to teach some and leave some and that's where the difference comes about, people choose to ignore what they are not okay with and teach what they think should be right, if everyone took the bible as a whole for what it says, we would be stronger and much more equiped.
I’m 55 I’ve been speaking in tongues since the age 16. It’s just my private prayer prayer language that comes naturally as breathing. Debates like this used to bother me but I have accepted the fact that most Christians are skeptics on this topic so I no longer debate this. It just goes in one ear and out the other. I just love all my brothers and sisters in Christ….Blessings.
I can only presume that the difference is not in the private prayer, but the babbling in public congregation, with no dialect or coherent language, and calling it "tongues"...
I guess your god doesn't understand English 🤔
Amen and me too
I doubt it. If you only use it in your prayers and it was real then you wouldn’t feel the need to boast about the “gift “ that you have. Instead you edify yourself to proclaim you have a gift that you likely only claim to have.
@@danielb7495 I’m not boasting. I’m simply pushing back against all the years I was told by many that it wasn’t real. Made to feel like I was making it up. For years, I never understood why other believers didn’t believe or thought I was in error. It actually hurt. But now I’m an old buzzard that no longer cares what others think.
Remember how Tongues is described in the Bible. Everyone in the Upper Room believed that they were simply speaking Aramaic. They didn't think they were speaking in a strange tongue. Realize that this means the speakers were HEARING Aramaic coming out of their mouths.
But everyone HEARD them in their native language. This gift is less about the speaking, and more about the hearing. If you know you're speaking in Tongues, you probably aren't speaking in Tongues.
Warning: Long response to all 6 of your points.
1. Yes, I have heard a tongue with an interpreter on a number of occasions.
2. I have had many experiences where I don’t know what to pray, but when I pray in a tongue, I feel a sense of relief and peace like I’m getting off my chest what I need to say to the Lord. Sometimes as I’m praying in a tongue, I get a sense of what I’m praying. There are other times, when I’m praying for someone and I don’t know what to pray. I’ll pray quietly in a tongue, and then I know what to pray (in English). Paul says, “For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful” (1 Cor. 14:14). So I would question your assumption that praying in a tongue must edify you cognitively as you claim.
3. How do you explain prayer in other religions? Or giving to the poor in other religions? Should we therefore not pray or give to the poor? And since Mormons read the KJV Bible do you mean to say that reading the KJV is unbiblical? This is a poor “guilt by association” argument. Even the Egyptian magicians could mimic Moses’ genuine miracles. The demons that were at work through them are still around today. Yes, there are counterfeits and we need to exercise discernment. I have heard tongues that were clearly not of the Holy Spirit. But that doesn’t mean we throw the baby out with the bathwater.
4. Evangelism is a gift. And yet we also train people how to share the gospel. Teaching is a gift. And yet we also have seminaries that (are supposed to) teach people how to teach the Bible. This is not to say that everyone who is trying to “teach tongues-speaking” is legitimate. I’m just merely pointing out that we need to learn how to use spiritual gifts properly.
5. This really goes with #4. In my experience, it’s not so much “learning” to speak in tongues. What I’ve found is that it’s more about removing hindrances and blockages, and clearing up misunderstandings. This would require a much longer response to flesh this out, but that’s it in a nutshell.
6. It’s true that we can learn from church history. You didn’t exactly present evidence that there was no tongues-speaking between Acts 2 and the 20th century. The video clip you showed us without context seemed to be a very fringe example. Why did you choose that? To get an emotional response from your viewers? There are hundreds of millions of tongue-speaking Christians. Are they all “outside of orthodoxy” as you claim? Paul says that there are tongues of men and tongues of angels (1 Cor. 13:1). Therefore not all tongues need be in a human language understood by a native speaker.
If you're still reading this, thanks for hanging in there! I used to be very "anti-tongues," myself. I get that point of view, though now I am convinced that tongues is a legitimate gift that is still operational today. Having said all that, we still need to be discerning about tongues-speaking, just like we need to be discerning about every activity that purports to be from the Lord. We must weigh prophetic utterances. We must weigh teaching to see if it aligns with Scripture. We need to weigh evangelism to see if in fact the true gospel is being proclaimed or a counterfeit.
Was actually really close to writing a similar response… hahaha! My Answers are almost identical…
Ditto, I wrote like 6 comments trying to address each point. Anyways, your comment was based on actual Bible study and references as well as experience, much unlike the speaker in this video...whose Biblical logic and even just plain logic seem very inconsistent or just plain M.I.A.
Mate, read the 1 corinthian 13 and 14 out loud. Read also the Act 2 out loud because what your response does not aligned to what the scripture you have use as reference. May God open up your eyes to see
I’m charismatic but can appreciate your approach. Healthy and kind debate between brothers is good. Wonderful videos from overseas, as well!
I thought RC Sproul did an amazing job arguing for "tongues" being just "other actual human languages" not gibberish. He did it in the style of Columbo the detective and it was incredibly effective.
The Church misses his down to earth wisdom
Would you be able to post a link to this? I would love to watch it :) (if it's on YT, just the v= id from the URL will work since I think you're not able to post links; e.g. this video is "ORrfeVi_l-k")
I’d like to see that. I’ll have to search it.
Hahaha. I would have enjoyed seeing that! The Columbo impersonation. Great man!
Christopher ~ l saw that also! Brilliant his Colombo shtick! Miss him.
Todd's Ponderous Ponderings for Charismics
1. Scripture commands tongue-speaking requires an interpreter. So, if you hear someone at a gathering speaking in tongues without an interpreter, is this really biblical?
* Is the gift biblical? Yes. Is the exercise without an interpreter consistent with Paul's biblical requirement? No
2. The spiritual gifts are given for the edification of the saints. So, how does modern day glossalalia edify you? Does it teach you more about the Lord? Does it teach you more about the Word? Or does it leave you with an odd feeling? If the speaking in tongues isn't interpreted, and it cannot edify you cognitively, Biblically, maybe it's not biblical.
The protocol Paul gives for proper exercise of the gift is someone speaks in a tongue, somebody interprets and this is on a near-par with prophecy (see Corinthians 14:5, above). But here he seems to be saying he prays in tongues-alone without an interpreter in non-church settings. And he would seem to be able to do this at will ("The spirits of prophets are subject to the control of prophets. -- 1 Corinthians 14:32). Presumably, the content of the message in tongues comes from God directly in some verifiable language that then goes uninterpreted in Paul's non-church prayers and Paul boasts he does it more than anyone. It clearly edified him in the Lord. Meanwhile, in church, he says interpretation is paramount. It's notable that, despite the problems in the Corinthian church, Paul never suggested their tongues were not real.
3. How do you explain the same "tongues" in other religions?
Why is this a problem for modern charismatics? Half the problem in the Corinthian church involved real, but uninterpreted, tongues. How did Paul discern those uninterpreted tongues from fake tongues in other religions?
4. Spiritual gifts are just that -- gifts. So why do we have tongues-teaching classes to teach a gift?
Because somebody's making money.
5. Tongues can't be learned
Agreed, but their proper use can be taught and learned, which is what much of 1 Cor 12-14 is about.
6. The witness of Church history ... why did the Lord wait 2,000 years to make tongues such a prominant and prevalent gift?
You'll have to ask him that, but in the meantime, the emphasis on tongues in 1 Corinthians shows it was prominant and prevalent then.
* Tongues-interpretation challenge
This 10-interpreter test for the gift of tongues has more in common with the hyper-rationalist and atheist, Amazing Randy, who was known for debunking supernatural claims, than it does the Bible. Given Corinth's problems, why didn't Paul pose a similar challenge designed by a skeptic to test God's gifts to the church? It looks like Todd is tempting the Holy Spirit. Not good.
Todd's thesis
* The gift of tongues in Acts is "clearly" a gift of speaking in a foreign language
* Difficult to make a biblical case that the gift of foreign languages has definitively ceased.
* Paul was not advocating in 1 Cor 12-14 for speaking in an ecstatic languages, but instead encouraging the careful use of phonetic languages and interpretation.
* Because of reasonably credible reports from the mission field of receiving the gift of foreign languages, we can assume God may give this gift of a language understandable by someone with the gift of interpretation or a native speaker, but it never was an ecstatic language that doesn't edify the body.
It's not clear at all that the gift of tongues, as it operated in the first-century church -- particularly Corinth -- is limited to verifiable phonetic languages. There's good reason to suspect ecstatic languages were rampant and that's what Paul is trying to corral. Even then, he doesn't condemn the tongues themselves.
While Todd has attempted to put his "charismatic friends" on the defensive, I want to hear him defend why the order for church worship Paul gives in 1 Cor 14:26-32 is not followed in cessessionist churches. Members are told to bring a tongue, two or three messages in tongues are reasonably expected -- provided an interpreter is present -- and the speakers appear to have control over their gift so they can pre-plan. This should be happening weekly. Charismatic abuses are real, but why is neglecting what has been commanded OK?
He's happy to go halfway with continualists and grant the legitimate gift of tongues on some far-off mission field, which is an improvement over his fellow nay-sayers who have, Fauci-like, quarantined the gift to A.D. 100. Both cases, however, want tongues out-of-site-out-of-mind in either space or time. Paul wanted everyone to speak in tongues. I don't get that vibe from Todd.
My grandmother and her church have spoke in tongues since I was a kid. It’s something that they don’t seem to have much control over if any. They some times they do have an interpreter but I know she also does it during her private prayer time as well. When people in the church would start speaking in tongues in the service it’s ignored unless there is an interpreter. It’s not forced on anyone. No one ever told me If I didn’t do it that I wasn’t saved, just that it was a gift of the HOLY SPIRIT. When I have read the Bible I see 2 types of tongues spoken of from what I remember. I believe my grandmother, she is on of the godliest people I know as is my old pastor from when I was a kid(I still occasionally reach out to him for help). I’ve never spoken in tongues. My stance has always been if GOD wants me to do it, then he will make me do it. I do believe in the gifts of the spirit I don’t believe they have stopped. I however don’t and don’t know anyone who makes a huge deal out of them except the for the people who don’t believe in them and on the other side those who abuse them and fake them to mock GOD. I see it this way I am available for GOD to use me as he sees fit. I’ve never healed anyone but if GOD told me to put my hands on some one and pray and he healed them I wouldn’t be questioning it. It wouldn’t be coming from you anyway. I think the only reason that some people all of a sudden have an issue with these gifts is because of how these modern day heretics like bethel abuse it. That is a problem but don’t act like everyone who believes what the Bible says at face value is a heretic. I’ve been a Christian for 21 years and I serve in the church and the community and I’ve seen GOD answer many prayers and do some amazing things and know people in my church who have been healed. Mainly through prayer but what’s the difference between praying for some one to be healed and laying hands on some one and GOD heals them? The issue I think is when you try to take credit for the healing or when you try to beat some one up because they believe it. The fact is I can find many circumstances in the Bible where it says GOD speaks to people and performs miracles and gives gifts but no one can seem to show me a verse that says he stopped. I love R.C. Sproul and Paul washer and some times listen to John MacArthur. But I don’t agree with everything they say or believe. Just like im sure many people disagree with me. That’s ok we are still brothers. Just don’t try to lump me in with bethel because I’ve seen and believe things because the church I grew up in is nothing like that either. All I can say is that I won’t limit GOD and it’s not my place to say what he does it’s my job to just be faithful. All I can do is all I can do. Some of these things to me appear to be the weaker brother lashing out at the stronger brother because he is angry at the heretic for mocking GOD. All I know is what I see and what I read. Anyway that’s my 2 cents, feel free to comment I may not respond. I don’t want to fight I’m honestly tired of this debate, just thought you may like to hear my side. Love you all in CHRIST. Just remember everyone who believes these things is not like that.
Thank you for this informative video ❤
In the Bible some people got baptized and they were asked if they received the Holy Spirit and they have never heard of it. Then they laid hands on them then the received it, so they had to tell them about the Holy Spirit so they can receive it. Just something to ponder.
Most of the time this topic is discussed by people who have never experienced speaking of tongues and read the text about tongues from a prejudice perspective not from a learning perspective. I have witnessed a person interpreting tongues, and heard of a preacher who never knew how to speak English so the first time she spoke in tongues she spoke English by the power of the holy spirit fluently.
Personally I grew up in a conservative church and spiritual gifts were only talked about. But I was blessed over the years to have learned about this gift from different people and eventually through seeking the Lord and much prayer i was able to start speaking in tongues and praying in tongues. The experience was so nice I felt like Paul when he said I beseach you that you all speak in tongues.
Paul wanted all men to speak in tongues for the edification of their soul. Paul spoke in tongues more then anyone else. He argued not to speak in tongues in church when outsiders where present or when no one could interpret. Speaking in tongues is a blessing.
Todd, I appreciate your heart to see the body of Christ walk Biblically and in accordance to truth!
As a charismatic christian, I wanted to respond to these questions with my best understanding of tongues.
1. Do you have a tongues interpreter?
I'd say not all tongues require interpretation. 1 Corinthians 14 clearly talks about the one form of the gift of tongues being a gift for self edification, as charismatics would call it, a "prayer language". Paul emphasizes to eagerly desire gifts that minister to the body, so he is saying that tongues that are meant for interpretation are better that self-edifying tongues, but he did clarify in verse 4 that, "Now I wish that you all spoke in tongues." Then he says, "but rather that you would prophesy; and greater is the one who prophesies than the one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may receive edification."
Later on in the passage, Paul shares this
"13 Therefore, one who speaks in a tongue is to pray that he may interpret. 14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unproductive. 15 What is the outcome then? I will pray with the spirit, but I will pray with the mind also; I will sing with the spirit, but I will sing with the mind also. 16 For otherwise, if you bless God [g]in the spirit only, how will the one who occupies the place of the [h]outsider know to say the “Amen” at your giving of thanks, since he does not understand what you are saying? 17 For you are giving thanks well enough, but the other person is not edified. 18 I thank God, I speak in tongues more than you all; 19 nevertheless, in church I prefer to speak five words with my mind so that I may instruct others also, rather than ten thousand words in a tongue." (NASB)
Paul is clearly distinguishing praying in tongues, and praying with the mind, that they are two different types of prayer. There are other times throughout Paul's epistles, he references praying in the spirit. Romans 8, Ephesians 6:18, Jude 1:20. Paul is saying he speaks in tongues more than all in verse 18. In this passage, he doesn't seem to be saying that praying in tongues is bad, or singing in tongues is bad, he just said it is more fruitful for the church body, if you pray with your mind.
I'll say, I don't think all charismatic churches are using tongues biblically, but to throw the baby out with the bath water goes against scripture.
2. Do tongues edify you?
Biblically, yes they do. 1 Corinthians 14 says that tongues in verse 4 edify oneself. Again, they aren't as beneficial to the body as is prophecy, teaching, tongues for interpretation, but it does edify the spirit. Paul references praying in the spirit in 3 other passages in scripture, and that he prays in tongues more than all.
I would say personally, it absolutely gives me more hunger for His word!
3. How do you explain the same tongues in other religions?
There is Biblical precedent to pray and speak in tongues, I would say that the enemy is not a creator, but distorts the good things God has created and given us. I think we see it often, that the devil is referred to as an "angel of light". I think that if people speak in tongues yet don't exalt Jesus as Lord, than it is of the enemy. The clear test whether someone is walking with the Lord, or walking in the flesh is fruit.
In Galatians 5 it says, "19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control."
If there are people who are speaking in tongues but aren't displaying fruits of the spirit, than it's reason to question whether they are Christian or not. However, there is Biblical precedent to pray and speak in tongues.
4/5. The nature of spiritual Gifts/Tongues can't be learned
I totally agree with Todd that gifts are given by the Lord, and we all are a part of the body, however the scripture does say in 1 Corinthians 14:1 to eagerly desire love, and the spiritual gifts, especially prophecy. I don't think Paul would've mentioned that if we couldn't desire other gifts. I agree that tongues can't be learned. It's a gift that the Holy Spirit gives.
6. The witness of church history
I will be honest in that I don't know much about church history regarding tongues, so can't really speak to that. However I don't think there is any scriptures that indicate tongues have ceased. I know 1 Corinthians 13 mentions that prophecies and tongues will cease when the perfect comes. Charismatics interpret verse 10 to be when Jesus comes back, cessationists interpret it as when the Scripture was completed. Now, I know Todd is saying that he believes tongues are for today, and that he knows credible missionaries who have experienced people sharing the gospel, and people hearing in their own language, which is amazing! However, if tongues haven't ceased, then it is reasonable to conclude that self edifying tongues are still available today as well.
At the end of the video, Todd defines tongues as only foreign languages that are meant for interpretation by either the native speaker, or those that have the gift of interpretation. He closes with that they are only to be used with interpretation, as a means to build up the body.
In summary, I would say that 1 Corinthians 14 has clear distinctions between speaking in tongues for interpretation and self-edifying tongues. Paul is clearly saying that tongues for the edification of the body are more useful to the church than self edifying tongues, but that it is still a good thing to speak in tongues for self edification.
Great response, I hope he genuinely wanted to engage in a conversation rather than clickbait.
Well said Michael. As to the Lord "waiting 2000 years to make the gift of tongues such a prevalent gift" it would be fair to say that He made nothing more prevalent than what it was already described by Paul in 1 Corinthians. What has really happened is that the gift fell into disuse by many (though, thankfully not all) and has been revived in the last century.
Well said.
Every time the word tongues are used in the Bible, it is derived from the word glossa, which means language. At the Pentecost there were Jews from many places with different languages, because it was during the Passover. Everyone heard the message in their own language. I once went to a Spanish church to sing, I needed an interpreter.
All my prayers flow thru Christ, so why do I need a secret language that I don’t even understand?
In Mathew 6, Christ gave us a pattern to pray. He didn’t say anything about a secret language.
Tongues, as used in the Pentecostal church, were already being used before in Paganism, occultism, Hindu and others the first here in America for the Pentecostals was in 1901. Look up on RUclips to hear their tongues, it is scary to hear that they and their actions are just alike.
1 Corinthians 14:33, God is a God of order not disorder. I went to a Pentecostal church once when I was young. I saw only disorder with people speaking in tongues.
We are to have reverence to Him. Even the angels around Him cry Holy, Holy, Holy and cover their faces. When we stand before Him one day, we will be ashamed of all of our human folly.
The Pentecostals today don’t look to theology. They look to emotion. Jeremiah 17:9-10 says that our hearts are desperately wicked. So I don’t trust my emotions. I search the word. We are called to be Holy. 1 Peter 1:13-16 gives a great description how we are to be holy.
@@cindybaker7153 all Christian error comes from focusing on the scriptures you are comfortable with and ignoring the rest of it. The Bible isn't ambiguous on this issue, it's transparently clear that tongues are a spiritual language you are given to communicate with God, not a crash course in Spanish. Yes, in the first outbreak many of them actually spoken other earthly languages, but throughout the rest of the NT we're constantly told that the gift (Charisma) of Tongues is not only in this form.
Scriptures (there are of course many more) that go against your view:
- 1 Cor 14:14 if you are praying in in your native language your mind is fruitful but your spirit is unfruitful. If you are praying in Tongues your spirit is fruitful but your mind unfruitful. How can you possibly interpret this as anything to do with another earthly language?
- 1 Cor 14:23 If people visit our church and we are praying aloud in tongues they'll think we're out of our minds, which means 2 things:
a) This is why we're told never to hold Church services like this, but rather one person at a time and only with interpretation, and
b) Obviously it's a spiritual language and not an earthly one, otherwise people would understand/recognize the language and no one would think you out of your mind.
Lastly, I don't doubt the experience you had in the 1 Pentecostal church you've ever been in was genuinely bad. Most likely it was flesh, might not even have been real Tongues or possibly some had a real gift of Tongues but were abusing the gift (which is what a lot of 1 Cor is about, because that's what the Church in Corinth was doing). But you don't get to negate clear scripture because you had a bad experience of something. I wouldn't believe any of scripture if I based it on how well I've seen the Church live it out.
Unfortunately this is an issue on which the majority of the Western church has been beaten up by Satan. He's quite happy for us all to keep praying in our minds and have our spirits be completely unfruitful, because it's useful in some ways but powerless in others. After all, here in the West we've got medication now to deal with the lack of joy, peace etc that comes from that pattern. The fast growing Pentecostal Church in the Third World on the other hand is experiencing something much closer to the outpourings of joy, power, evangelistic effectiveness, growth in holiness etc seen in the early church that we just about never see in the dry (or fleshly Charismatic as you experienced) Western church anymore.
Paul said unless you had two interpreters it was like ,"sounding brass and tinkling cymbals." Not what these people believe.
In my youth, I visited some of my friends churches, looking for my home church. 2 of them were, instead of a teaching, stood up & carried on in tongues. I knew the Bible states that there is to be an interpreter, there was none. Sadly, I started laughing, couldn't help myself! Got removed from 1 & another said I had to go to the front & pray "NOW". I left. God gives gifts to whom he wants. By His guidance!
One time I received the Holy Ghost and found myself speaking fluent Spanish. I’ve never spoken Spanish before or was raised around the language. For about 10 minutes I babbled sentences about loving Jesus and how thankful I was for him in Spanish. I’m an apostolic Pentecostal .
Hello my fellow humans. Todd, that is an exact and perfect explanation biblically!
Peace, my fellow humans!
Todd consigns the gift of tongues to some out-of-sight-out-of-mind mission field where it won't intrude on him. Paul requires their use in the church (1Cor 14:26-32). Members are told to bring a tongue, two or three messages in tongues are reasonably expected -- provided an interpreter is present -- and the speakers appear to have control over their gift. This should be happening weekly. Charismatic abuses are real, but why is neglecting what has been commanded OK?
@@JonJaeden Hello my fellow human! Thank you for your comment. I believe that the Holy Spirit of God is working to bring those who are chosen to come onto the faith of Jesus Christ. I give thanks to God that you believe in Jesus and his death and burial and resurrection. I believe that God ordained us to have order in church in the same chapter of 1 Corinthians 14. I believe the Holy Spirit gives gift onto the believer according to his will. And we can also ask God for different gifts with faith, and he will do so according to his will!
So can I please ask you the question when you hear people talking in tongues, is there somebody translating what they’re saying? And are there anybody that could verified that language?
Acts 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.
14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
See my fellow human.
There was plenty of people who recognize the language in the great prophecies of God.
So Todd does believe that this is true, according to scripture. Therefore, he asked this six questions for we to ask ourselves in the congregation this thing, these questions, to be able to test the spirits.
And, I ask you, if you can see in this text, that some people mocked, and saying this man’s are drunk. That does not mean we have to act drunk in church. Because Peter explain that they were talking in different tongues, because God was bringing his promised, the prophecy into past of;
Joel 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
And I also tell you, that I did experience one day that my friend asked me to go to his baptism. It was a Pentecostal church. And when they were baptizing him, the congregation was praising and dancing in the platform. You could barely hear what the pastor was saying, when he was baptizing my friend. The next day when he came to work, he told me that the person who is baptizing him, was telling him to speak in this manner. Because he wanted to people to see that he had now receive the Holy Spirit. And I told my friend that type of speaking in tongue is fake. And there is real speaking in tongue. And God will give people different type of language to speak to go to the world and preach the gospel. The same way it happened in the day after Pentecostal in Act 2:. Because God was preparing those people to go to preach the gospel to the world! Like in,
Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Peace, my fellow human!
@Jon Jaeden can what they do be proven to be the tongues Paul talked about?
@@davesawe5346 Who is "they" -- the missionaries Todd referenced or those in the local church following Paul's prescription for tongues in the meeting?
@@JonJaeden Christians who speak in tongues today. Did Paul say what that sounds like?
They seek after a sign.
They'll get a sign alright 😢
I went to a church that ended up being a little too charismatic recently and the pastor told me there would be no tongues without an interpreter. He went on and on in his sermon which involved a great deal of scripture, but then spoke about tithing as to not enter heaven on credit, feeding the spirit man, the sinners prayer and briefly spoke in random tongues out of nowhere. Note that he didn’t provide any biblical context for these points he was trying to make and despite the environment feeling very welcoming, as the week went on I ruminated on the pastor’s message and came to the conclusion that despite how genuine he appeared, that I couldn’t attend a church like that as it is too far outside of orthodoxy. The only church I found that even remotely resembles orthodoxy my wife doesn’t want to attend. I am starving for an expository pastor and have no support network. My parents no longer attend church, my wife is Luke warm and I can’t find a church thats expository. Pray for my family.
I am charismatic. I prayed for years for this gift. And I thank God for it. It’s one of the ways I know God is real. The problem with these cessationist types is that at the end of the day it’s largely head knowledge. It’s all theory. And deep down they know they could be wrong.
Well presented, thank you.
The "tongues" spoke of in Acts, were not gibberish, but actual linguistically documented languages which were readily understood by attendees in the crowd as their individual native tongues (language)
Only on the Day of Pentecost. We're not told it happened that way any other time.
@@JonJaeden False.
Scripture teaches, these signs follow them that BELIEVE. Not them which are Apostles, nor those who were the 12, but rather they that believe. Read beyond the day of Pentecost in the book of Acts. Too many ppl don’t believe they can speak in tongues because they lack faith.
Mark 16:16-17
Go read it.
God poured out His Spirit upon ALL flesh.
Joel 2:28
If ye believe….
Shalom
@@felixbruno7937 A misunderstanding. I'm only referring to the biblical accounts. Only on the Day of Pentecost are we told the tongues they spoke were recognized languages. They may have been in fact, but Scripture doesn't say so. And a lot of Paul's criticism and correction in 1 Cor makes more sense of the tongues he was addressing might have been of the ecstatic type.
This is what makes sense to me. If God wants man to be saved, then he would have given the early church the ability to spread the gospel to the unsaved world with a miraculous gift of speaking in other languages. Something that other humans would understand. I'm pretty certain that if I went to a church service as an unsaved man and I saw a bunch of people speaking in tongues, I would have been scared away and written the people off as a bunch of hooligans.
It only happened 5 times in the new testament and ALWAYS there was a jewish witness to the event and the languages used were recognizable to those there. Would be like me speaking japanese and witnessing to a japanese person suddenly and perfectly, a much more impressive event than a bunch of people in a church setting speaking what an outsider would only hear as gibberish. I don't think God does things for a spectacle, he does things for a purpose and way too many churches get emotionally bound by this practice because it makes people "feel" good. Anyone can speak gibberish and appear to be emotional, it takes a miracle to gift someone a language suddenly and perfectly and for a purpose that the group that witnesses can all recognize. Not to mention this was not a part of the church AT ALL for nearly 2000 years, by the end of the new testament, it was over and didn't come back until some American Woman shaker brought it back in the 1800s under dubious circumstances. I won't say it can't happen again but will say much of it is not what it is claimed to be in the pentacostal movement in my opinion.
Thank you so much for being an example of humility. I have tried to minister to family members who believe in blood line curses or can't discern scripture in context but refuse to be corrected. My humility only helped my faith, they're hearts need truth
Very interesting discussion. Thank you for you
I am so glad to hear the testimonies of brothers and sister about this wonderful gift of God.
May I issue a warning to those who denounce this gift. If it is indeed from God and still for today - you insult the Giver inasmuch a lover would be insulted when his beloved refused or devaluates his gift.
Devaluating this gift is just as bad as faking it. I have heard genuine, fake and even satanic toungues, but I still believe the real is still practised today by millions around the globe.
I had been thrown out of leadership and fellowship recently because of my stance on it.
Speaking in tongues hurts the pride of bystanders and today, just as it was on the day of Pentecost. They saw it, they heard it, but they did not get it, they had not waited in the upper room with the 120 as the Lord told them. So they refused to be convicted and shouted "they are drunk" and it still echoes out to this day.
What I read here in the posts reflects very well what Paul stated at the beginning of chapter 12 and at the end of chapter 14:
12:1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
He knew full well that ignorance towards this would be widespread, so he addressed it.
In the end he comments in chapter 14:38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.
There are many who chose to remain ignorant and this is exactly what we can read in many comments here.
Having said that, you can speak in real tongues in an inorderly way (without interpreter in gatherings while outsiders are present causing confusion) and you can still be carnal in conduct. Paul praised the Corinthians for their abundance of gifts in the beginning, but then went into great detail about their lack of Christian virtues.
39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
Paul forbids to forbid speaking in tongues
I would not want to be answering one day to God for forbidding what the scriptures clearly encourages.
Perfect answer. Well done.. Todd has already chosen a bias, not scripture.
We should therefore chose wisdom to separate the wheat from the shaft, not disparage those who practice the gift with bad examples of abuse.
The use of the gift of languages was recorded in Acts 2 in its actual purpose: that the gospel be heard in a multicultural setting of actual languages, not nonsensical proto-words aka "gibberish". Luke records the clear eyewitness account of actual human languages being spoken and Paul mentions in 1 Corinthians 14 it was a fulfilled OT scripture that when the Jews heard the gospel being preached in gentile languages, it was a sign we are in the New Covenant age. Paul goes on to say, very clearly, very definitively, ""glossolalia" was therefore a sign to unbelievers". Crystal clear. Sitting in your room and going "sha-tata-da" or the one million other variations you hear (interesting the Holy Spirit has a billion different languages since each person sounds different) does absolutely nothing. That is absurd.
How does it edify someone when it freaks them out or, as some people have said here, scares little children half to death?
The gift of tongues was both a sign to the unbelievers and can still be used in a church setting provided there is interpretation. Besides, Paul used it extensively in his private prayer life, more than all of them and recommeded it for self-edification in the Lord. I use it for edification, too and it helps me to pray effortless and prolonged. Jesus mentioned it in Mark 16 as something believers do, he did not limit it to the apostles or apostolic times, otherwise the bible would say so. It will only end when the "perfect" in 1 Cor 13 comes, and that is definitely not the closure of the canon of scripture as some claim. If this were true, wisdom would have ceased, too.
I would be careful to call it "gibberish". What if it is indeed from the Holy Spirit and you judge Him? Also, again Paul says forbid not to speak in tongues, because he knew that there will always be those who want to forbid it, so think about it.
@@sarathurston3318 Do not confuse the missuse of the exercise of the gift in the assembly without interpretation, especially when unbelievers are present. It is not to be meant to be a sign to unbelievers in this context. This is what Paul told them not to do. The gift of tongues for the purpose of edification is for your private prayer life. True believers go through many troubles, Satan hates and haunts and scorns them, so those who have the gift can use it to edify themselves and it helps them to overcome
People say I have no charisma
I was invited to what I believe was a Charismatic church in a roundabout way a couple years ago. After the incredibly long (and increasingly fervent) preaching, came an event where EVERYONE in the church was invited to speak in tongues...which they did. But not necessarily everyone in God-given, actual Biblical tongues, but in the ... let's say "Kenneth Copeland" style of tongues: humina humina humina...etc. I literally RAN out.
Thank you for your boldness on this subject...I was raised in a church that was overrun with this..I've come to realize God is not an author of confusion...and it was outta control....I'm sorry but I never believed..he was in it...we are in New Testament times
I used to think tongues was for strange people (and it is admittedly strange). This was just what was communicated to me (directly or indirectly) until I came across and looked into sound biblical arguments. It was really a matter of my heart already deciding I didn't like how weird it was and me making assumptions. There are abuses for sure, like anything, however the same guy who wrote Romans said he spoke in tongues more than anyone and also says to not forbid it. Also, Paul says his spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful. And "I will pray with my spirit, but I will pray with my mind also,” so I think it is of a non-mind kind of tongue. But I agree it shouldn't be used in corporate gathering without interpretation per Paul's instruction.
The guy who wrote Romans was an apostle. What are you?
Romans says the Holy Spirit intercedes for every believer with unutterable sighs. Sighs are not language, any what’s unutterable isn’t heard. So, tongues as a prayer language is redundant.
Applying “forbid not” today is anachronistic. Tongues is not for believers. It was for unbelievers. Specifically, Jews educated in scriptures. It was a sign that of impending doom for Jerusalem and the Temple which happened about 18 years after Paul wrote “forbid not.” What you thought was solid was sophism.
The "guy who wrote Romans" traveled from place to place, those places having different dialects and languages, and he preached to them.....tongues is a known language, for missions, known to the speakers and interpreted by the native speakers of that known language. It enabled Paul---the guy---to preach to many from place to place. Why make it weird or mysterious?
@@patriot140 It is mysterious. ”For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit.”
1 Corinthians 14:2
No one understands him except God
”Therefore, one who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret. For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful.”
1 Corinthians 14:13-14
Interpretation is a spiritual gift not a natural gift. God would need to empower the understanding of the utterance
My point is Paul worshipped and prayed with his non-mind spirit and also his intellectual mind (and I believe praying in the Spirit is not exclusively tongues but includes it). He was a man of both and his concern is not forbidding but being considerate and loving with the gifts.
All of this 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
If you go to a nation that speaks Swahili, and declare the mighty works of God in Swahili, your mind is unfruitful, but it will benefit those around you. Now, if you go to a church setting where everyone speaks English, and no one understand Swahili, but still choose to use the gift there for your own edification, you are abusing the gift and causing disorder in the church. You are only speaking to God, because no one is there to understand the Swahili that you speak. The gift was not meant to be used in this way for personal edification.
I'm an atheist & I can speak in tongues as well as any pentecostal. Better, actually, because I'm doing it deliberately, with forethought; & take care to make it plausible sounding.
I began speaking in tongues at ten years old. I got saved at twelve years old. Has anyone figured out the problem with that math?
Even at that young age, I knew it was a lie. I knew that I was just making meaningless noises. I knew that I was lying to myself and also the Holy Spirit.
After I got saved, I continued to speak in tongues. But nothing changed. I was still making fake noises. I prayed for the gift of tongues multiple times. I went to the altar almost every week to receive the gift. But it always ended with the same fake noises.
This continued until I was thirty years old when I finally left my Charismatic church. I was finally able to study the Bible without being filled with the lies my pastor would spew every week. I finally learned the truth about the gift of tongues (as seen here in this video).
I was finally able to move on from this lie, and finally began to learn about Christ.
Error begats error. Accumulate enough error, and the Gospel becomes unrecognizable. I advise you to leave a church that has any significant error, such as speaking in tongues. It's holding you back.
I Corinthians 14:14,15
"For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also."
1. In context this passage emphasizes prophecy over tongues, on account of prophecy edifies the church rather than just yourself. It's nearly impossible to deny these gifts of the Spirit are either often falsified or misused in church. Many Pentecostal and Charismatic churches that respect God's Word seem to be moving in more of a Calvary Chapel sort of direction, where spiritual gifts are more regulated to certain times and places and the teaching of the Bible given preeminence in general assembly. I think a good balance is needed here as is obedience to God's Word.
2. The New Testament also says that the gifts of the Spirit are given as the Spirit wills, not necessarily as we will, so they likely ebb and flow according to God's desire across church history. There is no verse which states that spiritual gifts cease forward from this point, on that when "that which is perfect" has come, they will cease, as there will be no need for these spiritual gifts. There will be no need for any of these in Heaven at all and even here on earth in areas or at times where there is less need, they are distributed less. There is no need for God to work a miracle if we are never in a position where a miracle is needed.
3. In verse 14, the unknown tongue is intended for personal prayer, and the Bible seems to allow for this. In this case, there is no interpreter and the language is unknown to the tongues-speaker, as Paul himself explains that his own understanding is unfruitful. Note this is different than unknown tongues with interpretation and tongues as a supernatural gift of foreign language. This also precludes the common position that Paul was simply multi-lingual, and I've found this verse omitted from what would otherwise be potentially logical and scholarly refutations of tongues-speaking.
4. Tongues with interpretation is essentially equated with prophecy in the New Testament. New Testament prophecy being basically defined as exhortation, edification, and comfort, any such word Biblically should generally fall into those classifications. Also note that according to the New Testament that all prophecy should be tested and evaluated so as to determine that it is consistent with the Bible. When was the last time you saw that in church? I can tell you, where they are tested, there's a whole lot less abuse. In fact, several test matrices exist in the New Testament for things like prophecy and knowing God's will that are not recognized as such because they are not presented in their modern tabular form. Not that any Word from God is fallible, but we believers most certainly are.
4. As far as I am aware, there is no Biblical mandate that any such spiritual gift must be received for salvation, so any believer is free to not receive it or any of the resulting benefits from it, just like they are free to not receive from me or any other sort of preacher. All believers receive the Holy Spirit at the time they are saved (because it's the Holy Spirit that convinces us of our sinfulness and draws us to the Savior in the first place) and the Bible says that the Holy Spirit teaches us and reminds us of what Jesus said. Therefore each believer is free to express their preference for which spiritual baby food jar they wish to eat from, with the result being that all should grow if the contents thereof are truly good (you should see the fruit of the Spirit), and as such there really should be no need for quarrels about this matter. In fact, I'd advise any believer to reject any particular instance of manifestation where the fruit of the Spirit are conspicuous by their absence or in egregious cases outright violated.
As for my personal experience, which anyone is of course free to disregard as irrelevant, I do speak in tongues, but not all the time, and not in general assembly. I have also had instances where God has spoken a word specifically to me, asked me to speak a specific word to someone specific, or have heard of a prediction received by the Holy Spirit that has in fact come to pass. However, for each of these types of occurrences, they may happen once or twice a decade, not every week. It is also taught among some of us that if you don't receive a specific word of prophecy through another person, you should not feel left out, as it is most likely that you are sufficiently led by the Spirit and learning and growing as you should on your own!
In any case much love to my cessationist brothers, as I look forward to drinking chocolate milk from the faucet with them at my house in Heaven, because I figure my God could find a way to make that happen, and we'll all laugh about how little we all knew while on earth, and also laugh because I will be one of them, as at that time, the spiritual gifts will have, in fact, ceased.
Was super depressed one day and started to cry out to Jesus. After time i experienced His presence and started praying in tongues. Whilst praying in tongues i saw this picture of a cocoon around me breaking open. At the same time i felt a demon come off of me.
Nowhere are we Commanded to speak in tongues, we are not commanded to heal or perform miracles. The only commandment we were given was to love the LORD and to love one another.
Amen
Paul says in 1 Corinthians 14, "Forbid not to speak with tongues", so definitely don't look down upon it either.
We are commanded to eagerly desire to prophesy. Are you doing that?
I encourage everyone to read 1st Corinthians 14 concerning toungs.
As Christians we are encouraged to speak in toungs privately, BUT it shouldn't be done in big groups of people.
I thought the gift in Acts was a Miracle that was done to Jumpstart the church. Everyone of all languages could understand the Truth so they can share the Gospel in their own language to all the people in the world.
Obviously this man doesn't pray in tounges pray for him in Jesus name love you ☺️
Very timely! We're studying 1 Corinthians 12-14 in Precepts this week! Thank you for your kind, clear explanation of "tongues."
1 Corinthians 14:2” For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries”
The type of tongues referred to here clearly are a different form from the gift of foreign languages in acts. As it states here, this is an unknown tongue unto God. It also states that this type of tongues is not to edify the Body as a whole, but oneself, as seen in this next verse.
1 Corinthians 14:4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
@@nathanmwetzel150 Yeah, it's easy to make your doctrine compatible with scripture when you leave part of scripture out. Cessationists are simply uncomfortable with the Bible and what it actually teaches. They would have been really uncomfortable in the first century and would have wanted to have had nothing to do with those weird, "charismatic" Christians, otherwise known as Christians.
@@nathanmwetzel150 Thank you for demonstrating eisegesis that overrides exegesis.
@@ricksonora6656 I don’t want to answer in anyway that might be confusing, because I don’t understand for sure what you actually intended to say by your statement. You either were trying to encourage me and just got your words “eisegesis” and “exegesis” mixed up, or you’re being sarcastic towards me, which is not Christ-Like. So I honestly hope you were attempting the first thing I stated, if not, it’s time for some serious soul searching. Get alone with God and pray as David prayed
Psalms 139:23 Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts:
Psalms 139:24 And see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting.
@@nathanmwetzel150 Christ used sarcasm, so don’t tell me sarcasm isn’t Christlike. I do agree, it’s time for serious soul searching.
Challenge accepted
Question 1) speaking in tongues (unknown tongues) only requires an interpreter when spoken in public…it is unscriptural to speak in tongues (unknown tongues) in public without someone who has the gift of interpretation
Question 2) speaking in tongues edifies the person who speaks (1 cor 14:4) by strengthening him spiritually, edifies his spirit man, to be born again is to be born of the Spirit, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Praying in the spirit strengths ur spirit man, this makes it difficult for ur fleshly desires to rule you, and makes u in tune with spiritual truths and realities (Galatians 5:16)
You also pray in tongues to pray for the right things, u don’t know exactly what u need to pray for, praying in tongues allows the Holy Spirit to pray on our behalf (Romans 8:26)
Question 3) the devil creates counterfeits, he did it when Moses went before pharaoh and turned his rod into a snake, and the wise men of Egypt did the same…he did it in the New Testament when Paul and Silas ran into the girl possessed by demons, who could prophecy…and he will do it again with the antichrist, the devil makes counterfeits
Question 4&5) it is completely wrong and unscriptural to teach how to speak in tongues, those who do this are ignorant…speaking in tongues isn’t something u can learn (1 cor 14:14)
Question 6) my ppl perish for lack of knowledge, during the time of the disciples and Paul, the knowledge of speaking in tongues was available but as the disciples inevitably died, knowledge decreased and ignorance increased…the knowledge of speaking in tongues is present today because of the written word (the Bible) and great increase in worldwide literacy…
Ur challenge) Yes I will have an extremely high level of confidence, even if it was a million ppl with the gift of interpretation (Ephesians 4:4) (1 Cor 12:4) it’s all coming from the same person, The Holy Spirit
Speaking in tongues isn’t only speaking in a foreign human language, if it was u wouldn’t need someone with the gift of interpretation, u will need a polyglot
There are two types of speaking in tongues, there is speaking in a foreign tongue (a language u do not understand but someone else naturally does) and there is speaking in an unknown tongue (a tongue that absolutely no one on the face of the earth naturally understands)
when speaking in tongues in a human foreign tongue (language that u do not understand but someone else does) there is no need for anyone with the gift of interpretation because a person who understands the language will know what u are saying and will be amazed to see someone who doesn’t speak their language at all, speaking through the Holy Spirit and will give glory to God (Acts 2:5-13) (1 cor 14: 20-22)
This is different from speaking in an unknown tongue (absolutely no one understands what u are saying naturally) Paul cautioned against speaking in an unknown tongue in public without a few ppl with the gift of interpretation (1Cor 14: 23) Paul cautioned against the speaking in unknown tongue in public because there might be unbelievers and uninformed ppl (Christian’s who struggle with speaking in tongues because of lack of knowledge) who will think that u are out of ur mind for speaking in an unknown tongue…now tell me, do u think that someone speaking in a different language is out of their mind, wouldn't it have to be a language that sounds “ecstatic” weird and crazy for u to think they were out of their mind? Right? Paul knew that although speaking in unknown tongue is from the Holy Spirit, unbelievers and some Christians (uninformed) will struggle with this and think Christians speaking in unknown tongues are crazy, so he instructed that speaking in an unknown tongue only be done in public when there are 2 or 3 ppl with the gift of interpretation to interpret
We're friends. Thank you for the challenge.
1 Corinthians 14:1 Follow the way of love and eagerly desire spiritual gifts, especially the gift of prophecy.2For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit
Sam Storms answers all of these questions in his book The Language of Heaven. He has a whole chapter devoted to number 6 where he actually lists quotes from church fathers.
Sam dissenginously cited church fathers out of context to make a supposed argument for tongues. His material is easy to refute if one is familiar with the original context of the quote from a church father
@@georgeakoto6589
Here is just one of the church fathers quoted in Storm’s book.
Irenaeus
Against heresies book II, chapter 32
If, however, they maintain that the Lord, too, performed such works simply in appearance, we shall refer them to the prophetical writings, and prove from these both that all things were thus predicted regarding Him, and did take place undoubtedly, and that He is the only Son of God. Wherefore, also, those who are in truth His disciples, receiving grace from Him, do in His name perform [miracles], so as to promote the welfare of other men, according to the gift which each one has received from Him. For some do certainly and truly drive out devils, so that those who have thus been cleansed from evil spirits frequently both believe [in Christ], and join themselves to the Church. Others have foreknowledge of things to come: they see visions, and utter prophetic expressions. Others still, heal the sick by laying their hands upon them, and they are made whole. Yea, moreover, as I have said, the dead even have been raised up, and remained among us for many years. And what shall I more say? It is not possible to name the number of the gifts which the Church, [scattered] throughout the whole world, has received from God, in the name of Jesus Christ, who was crucified under Pontius Pilate, and which she exerts day by day for the benefit of the Gentiles, neither practising deception upon any, nor taking any reward Acts 8:9, 18 from them [on account of such miraculous interpositions]. For as she has received freely Matthew 10:8 from God, freely also does she minister [to others].
5. Nor does she perform anything by means of angelic invocations, or by incantations, or by any other wicked curious art; but, directing her prayers to the Lord, who made all things, in a pure, sincere, and straightforward spirit, and calling upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, she has been accustomed to work miracles for the advantage of mankind, and not to lead them into error. If, therefore, the name of our Lord Jesus Christ even now confers benefits [upon men], and cures thoroughly and effectively all who anywhere believe in Him, but not that of Simon, or Menander, or Carpocrates, or of any other man whatever, it is manifest that, when He was made man, He held fellowship with His own creation, and did all things truly through the power of God, according to the will of the Father of all, as the prophets had foretold. But what these things were, shall be described in dealing with the proofs to be found in the prophetical writings.
Against heresies book 5, chapter 6
1. Now God shall be glorified in His handiwork, fitting it so as to be conformable to, and modelled after, His own Son. For by the hands of the Father, that is, by the Son and the Holy Spirit, man, and not [merely] a part of man, was made in the likeness of God. Now the soul and the spirit are certainly a part of the man, but certainly not the man; for the perfect man consists in the commingling and the union of the soul receiving the spirit of the Father, and the admixture of that fleshly nature which was moulded after the image of God. For this reason does the apostle declare, “We speak wisdom among them that are perfect,” 1 Corinthians 2:6 terming those persons “perfect” who have received the Spirit of God, and who through the Spirit of God do speak in all languages, as he used Himself also to speak. In like manner we do also hear many brethren in the Church, who possess prophetic gifts, and who through the Spirit speak all kinds of languages, and bring to light for the general benefit the hidden things of men, and declare the mysteries of God, whom also the apostle terms “spiritual,” they being spiritual because they partake of the Spirit, and not because their flesh has been stripped off and taken away, and because they have become purely spiritual
I had a Christian friend who only spoke English. Once her Arabic friends asked a theological question. She responded in Arabic. She had the hardest time convincing them that she did not speak Arabic.
Haven't heard anything back from you Brother Todd, even though I took the time to answer each of your points biblically and experientially. I can only find two of my responses, but I left 6 or so. I considered each of your points, and took the time to hear you out. Hopefully this channel isn't just an avenue for telling others your beliefs, without having any personal responsibility whether the beliefs that you are espousing even line up with Scripture
This should make you popular. 😂 Totally agree with this vid.
thank you for this video, I wish every person who thinks they speak in "tongues" would see this video.......our Lord bless this ministry!
Read the Bible brother. 1 Cor 12, 13, 14. The apostles and regular everyday believers spoke in tongues and it was not interpreted at all times. Read the book of Acts, Acts 10 : 45-48., 1 Corinthians. Be a Berean. Ask for the Lord's guidance. Tongues is as biblical as salvation, baptism, faith. Believe the Word of God.
I would love to see him formally debate Dr. Michael Brown on the subject
Except Dr. Brown would blow this man away! Dr. Brown would actually discuss the subject using the Bible instead of just feelings and assumptions
Sadly, many call it Holy & isn't & isn't.
Thankyou for exposing the point of this being another business.
Was literally approached by another believer on campus saying that gift of tongues is available for me but I never got it and Paul said not all get the same gift. I thought love was the greatest anyway and that’s what I’m trying to focus on. Loving God and other but because I don’t speak in tongues I’m not taken seriously or saved in their eyes
Paul started speaking on spiritual gifts in 1 Cor 12, spoke about love in 1 Cor 13 and then tongues in 1 Cor 14. There is a way to use tongues that is walking in love. But if you haven't learnt that, I encourage you to love others as Christ has loved you.
You have it correct. God wants you to change in your heart. God wants direct communication with him/it.
Trust in this as God Loves you so very much.♡
A repentant life and a love for Christ is evidence of a true conversion not tongues God bless you
I’ve seen it misused and I’ve experienced the real deal. I have a prayer language and I use it when I pray. When we don’t know how to pray, He prays for us. I was raised in a church that taught that everything must be done in order. Usually, if someone has a word from the Lord through speaking in tongues, there’s a translation. Speaking in tongues in my prayer language is refreshing because it’s the Holy Spirit praying through me. A man with an experience is not at the mercy of a man with an argument. My friend was baptized in the Holy Spirit and it took three tries because she expected God to just fall on her, but they had to explain that she had to open her mouth in faith and that God would give her the language. Mine is real and over time, I’ve even come to recognize words and believe God has helped me to translate individual words. I pray God gives you grace not to fear things you don’t understand.
Yes, thank you so much! I've seen it at my church as you describe for close to 20 years. I've also seen a guest pastor do an altar call where he put his hand on each person's forehead and people were falling. When he got to me I didn't feel overwhelmed or weak like I needed to drop. When I didn't fall like others he pushed me over. On the way home with a friend she had the same experience and she stood firm. She trusted that if it were genuine she would not have been able to hold it. We spoke to our pastor and learned that it wasn't just us that had that experience. The was the first and last time he was a guest at our church. People need to know they can question their pastor about such things and anything else that they are unsure of and if their pastor doesn't allow that or is offended at being questioned, time to find a church with a pastor that doesn't have a "god complex," lower case intended. There is no place for ego or arrogance or unhealthy pride.
@@ILikeFireify amen!
““And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you. “And when you pray, do not heap up empty phrases as the Gentiles do, for they think that they will be heard for their many words. Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him. Pray then like this: “Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name. Your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.”
Matthew 6:5-13 ESV
I interpreted a tongue once
@@brycnaird6210 it’s an at-home language and it’s not for show, but to allow the Holy Spirit to pray through me. Please don’t judge people’s hearts when you don’t know them.
Todd, you’re awesome!! Thank you for these questions. I pray modern “tongue speakers” will truly ponder these questions and go to the Scriptures for the answers, not their experiences.
I like the approach - debate it without the hot part. I just wish John MacArthur would stop docking Michael Brown, and actually debate him. I think Johnny Mac knows he will lose that debate, which is why he has been docking for the past 10 years.
I can easily prove to anyone that even though some charismatics are misguided, that does not prove the cessation of tongues and prophesy.
I go to a Pentecostal church that teaches being filled with the Spirit by the evidence of speaking in tongues. I myself have always believed since I was old enough to understand that speaking in tongues was pretty much what Todd said. I know my mother would go down front Sunday after Sunday and be prayed for to speak in tongues and it never happened. Her and I have talked and I told her what I thought about the whole “rubba shubba dubba” and how if the gifts are listed in order of importance speaking in tongues would be on the lesser end. It did help bring a little peace because she prayed for dozens of years and heard pastors say “just open your mouth and it’ll come” and it never did and she would wonder if she was really saved.
When I first spoke in tongues it wasn't because I was praying to be able to do it, I was praying for the Lord to fill me with the Holy Spirit.
Once He answered my prayer and did so, the pastor told me to surrender my tongue to the Holy Spirit.
So i just opened My mouth and started to relax my tongue. Suddenly, I felt control of my tongue seized and i began to fluently begin speaking in thr language that I was find out was called " tongues".
1 Corinthians 12 CLEARLY states not all believers speak in tongues, that each believer has differing gifts and the only universal gift is love. Which of course is the opposite of what charismatics and Pentecostals teach, They say ALL believers should be speaking in tongues and if they are not they have not received the Spirit. That is a very dangerous false doctrine because it can confuse those who lack that specif gift and are being told they have not even received the Holy Spirit when they likely have but have been given a different gift. The hand should not say to the foot you are no good becuase you are not a hand. The ear should not say to the nose you are no good because you cannot hear. If all all are an ear then where is the hand, the foot, the smelling? All the parts work together to from the whole body. Each has unique gifts as their part of the body.
@@Orange6921 Thanks for your reply.
Paul starts off 1Cor.ch.12 with the words," Now concerning spiritual gifts( 12:1). And describes how they are distributed by God to believers," "But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withall"( everyone).
The gift of speaking in " tongues" is always to be accompanied by a believer with the gift of interpretation so that all in a church gathering may be edified. But of course when a believer with the gift of speaking in " tongues" is speaking in one language that is now interpreted by the one with the gift in the majority language of those in that gathering.
Paul speak of this language specifically In 1Cor.ch.14. The word " unknown" has been added by the translators. "He that speaks in an unknown tongue speaks to God not man for no man understands him; howbeit, in the spirit he speaks mysteries".
Whereas, the gift of speaking in " tongues" edifies the church gathering as it is interpreted, Paul said," He that speaks in an unknown tongue edifies himself"(1Cor.14:4).
Paul says also that when he prays," When I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful.."( 1Cor.14:14)
In other words Paul says that when he prays in this language he doesn't understand what he is saying.
There are three operations of the speaking in " tongues" which is one spiritual language:
1) The first evidence that a believer has recieved the Holy Spirit when they recieve: Acts ch.2,10,and ch.19. The believers private prayer language
2) The gift of speaking in " tongues"to be accompanied by a believer with the gift of interpretation of tongues.
3) A sign for unbelievers.
@@robertnieten7259 I agreed with everything you said until you got to the part about tongues being a sign that a believer has received the HS.
That is NOT a written doctrine anywhere in the Bible, its a created doctrine by Pentecostals and others. We see it was common in the earliest days of the church in Acts when most had no clue what spiritual gifts and the HS were, but that is NOT what Paul writes 20 years later in his epistles.
Paul says flat out in 1 Corinthians 12 that not all believer speak in tongues, many manifest different gifts than that one.
27 Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually. 28 And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?
@@Orange6921 Thanks for your reply. The gift of speaking in tongues is a different operation of speaking in" tongues" than the initial speaking in tongues by the believer.
Paul said that the gifts of the Spirit are for the edification of the church gathering whereas Paul said that," He that speaks in an unknown tongue edifies himself"(1Cor.14:4).
Why wouldn't God want His children to be edified and strengthened during private prayer ?
Without getting to the theology, I do think glossolalia is a spiritual experience at least the initial experience. It’s often accompanied by a change of heart, mind attitude, and dedication to living a godly life. I’m speaking both personally, and from what I’ve seen in Penecostal churches growing up
God bless you, and I hope this video can be helpful in your walk with Jesus
Read my fellow human
It should ALWAYS be accompanied by these things.
1) I believe that we need an interpreter when a tongue is spoken out loud in front of the congregation, but if I am praying with God myself in my prayer language, then I don't need an interpreter because it is for my own edification in the Lord and not for the body of believers on a Sunday morning. I've seen it done well in my church and I've seen the body of believers be edified because of it. It is amazing how God uses people to build up the church. Now, my one issue with this is when a pastor has a mic and is praying in his/her prayer language for everyone to hear. I wish that wasn't the case.
2) Every time I launch into my prayer language, I feel to Holy Spirit softening my heart for his people. I feel a oneness with him. It's never forced. It always comes out of a place of worship and that is how I feel edified when praying in the Holy Spirit.
3) The easiest answer to this is... they're wrong. I hate seeing how other "churches" or religions handle this wonderful gift because it paints it in a bad light. The only thing I can offer is an invitation to come and see it done right. Because when it is done right, it is so beautiful and honoring to God.
4) It is a gift! And when people knock, the door is opened from our Heavenly Father.
5) It can't be "taught." Oh, how I wish people would not teach how to do it, but would, instead, help bring people to repentance and to seek out all that God has for them.
6) How many other times has church history misrepresented things from the Bible?
I was skeptical for many years on the baptism in the Holy Spirit. Even now, I still have doubts from time to time, but then I allow the Holy Spirit to fill me again and again, and my eyes are fixed upon Jesus. Praise the Lord for sending the Advocate, to come to the earth so we can fix out eyes on Jesus!
What I don’t like…. Is when people make a challenge and then cowardly hide away and not respond to the answers given. This shows me, he would rather mock and look condescending upon Charismatics than to have an earnest discussion.
I was asked once do I speak with tongues I said yes I speak with my tongue all the time. 😊
Lol I got it!!!
I attended a church in NC. Because of the humidity, they had device(s) that released a cool mist in the air, to cool it down / make people more comfortable.
So I can honestly say that I had a mist-ical experience there.
Went to a charismatic church once and it sounded like a zoo. There was absolutely no order or discernible translation. They just. t started speaking over others there. I was not edifiied and left early because I didn't know when it was going to end.
I was raised in charismatic churches: The Pentecostal Church of God, The Assemblies of God, and The Church of God. When I was a young teen I asked my pastor how I should answer those who told me speaking in tongues was unbliblical, speaking in tongues being defined as a "heavenly language" unknown to human ears. He told me to tell them I believe in Pentecost, (Acts 2:4-12). They commonly used 1 Corinthians 13:1 and double down with Romans 8:26 as evidence of such a heavenly language. It wasn't until I became an adult and continued studying my Bible that I realized these passages in scripture were being used erroneously, (quite probably, in the vast majority of cases, repeated out of genuine belief that this is the proper interpretation). This, coupled with the fact that congregants are told that the believer who earnestly seeks after God with wholehearted faith and puts away sin will also be blessed with the gift of speaking in tongues, creates the impression that the believer who isn't speaking in tongues has not reached that level of spiritual growth yet, a condition that practically invalidates any concerns the believer who struggles with speaking in tongues, both to the broader congregation and to the believer who is struggling themselves. In short, one easily comes away with the impression the problem isn't with the doctrine, but with the believer. I believe it would be beneficial, if Wretched would like to pursue this further, to address these aspects, in addition to Pentecost, as well. 🙂
*1 Corinthians 13:1* "Though I speak with the *tongues* of men and *of angels,* but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal."
*Romans 8:26* "Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but *the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered."*
appreciate your videos!!
I have experienced tongues first hand whereby a woman in a church meeting "spoke in tongues". unbeknownst to her, she spoke fluent Russian and answered a prayer request my brother had about his employment. I approached her afterwards and she didn't know Russian at all (she was Filipina). As far as tongues, or glossa goes, it edifies you in that you can pray in tongues and the understanding. In a public setting you should have an interpreter, however in a private setting this isn't always necessary - for example, during a closed prayer meeting.
My wife was in a serious accident in Norway and when we left the hospital, we had missed calls and messages from friends and family in Australia who were woken up in the middle of the night to pray for my wife. They didn't know what to pray for so they prayed in tongues. Tongues were used for intercession for my wife.
As far as other religions that speak in tongues... who cares? Other religions also baptize people. We shouldn't be concerned with what others do. Tongue teaching classes etc. are not Biblical so again, who cares?
You need to move away from US focused church history and the way the corrupt churches in the USA operate. the Christian church in Russia (not the Orthodox or old Believers) experienced speaking in tongues. they are even more conservative than IFB in the USA, where women are on one side, men on the other. The women wear head coverings and every month they practice the washing of one another's feet and they practice speaking in tongues. They are hardly a fringe Christian "crazy" church.
I wonder if you would have an issue with prophecy also. if you want to hear how both prophecy and tongues aided in the escape of my family from communist Russia, then from communist China, feel free to reach out to me. Our family and the Russian Christian community that escaped China has experienced tongues and prophecy in a way that I have rarely seen in the west.
For every thing that is of god there is a counterfeit. I don't have the interpretation part, but I pray to God in tongues when I am praying alone. When someone receives the gift of the Holy Ghost they will speak in tongues.
If its a gift, You shouldnt have to PRACTISE IT DUDE... And WORKS CANT save you either bro....God is sovereign though. Your family escape was Gods sovereign plan, to me. NOT people trying to prophesize. WE CANT go outside of what was written to us by the Lord. So DONT.....
@@JB-mn2wb He didn't say anything about practicing tongues. He just argued from his own personal experience how that and the gift of prophesying was helpful to him in his spiritual life as a Christian. These gifts can be misused and counterfeited, sure, but that's no reason to believe they are not relevant or can't be seen today.
Tongues used for intersession, I've heard many examples of this.
kickinthegob Amen and well said. I speak in tongues and asked the Holy Spirit for it, it helps me and gives me strength and a deepened connection to the Lord . I do not feel compelled to speak it out loud anywhere, it is between me and God and I know it is a specific language, although I do not know which, but if someone needs a message through it one day, the Holy Spirit will direct it to happen. Nonetheless it is real and it is for today. It is very sad and wrong that just because some do not want it or choose to not believe in it, that they claim it is fake for everyone. I've heard both fake and real, but just because there are fakers or you don't have it or want it yourself, doesn't make it irrelevant for others- how holier than thou are you who are so prideful as to think you know the mind of God and the spirit for everyone and have the right to judge or decide what He can or can't do. If you don't want it and/or don't believe in it, you won't get it, but that doesn't make it not real for those who have been blessed with it.
I had a charismatic friend said, you not saved, unless you speak in tounges. I completely disagree.
I grew up in a Pentecostal church, and my mom spoke in tongues while the pastor interpreted. My mom was a devout Christian and Loved our Lord and Saviour! I wasn't saved at the time, but it broke her heart everyday that I wasn't. My mom has long passed, but I did get saved 5 years ago. I've always said, if anyone has gone to heaven, it would be my mom. Do, I can't really speak on it. I know it was just supposed to be for the Jews, but our tiny fragile eggshell mind cannot fathom, or comprehend God's mind or will. God Bless everyone, and I love you all!🙏❤️❤️🙏
Edit: I absolutely felt the Presence of God around my mom, and the church we went to, but I'm 53, so this was decades ago. There was no social media, or cameras for people to make a fool of themselves. I believe it was genuine.
Three cheers for giving a clear thesis statement!
1. Yes I often see interpretation of tongues accompanying tongues
2. You make at seem as though the only way to be edified is “cognitively”. In fact you equate cognitive edification with biblical edification. This borders on rationalism. God has made us as composite beings, and yes, having greater awareness of his presence is absolutely edifying. This can also be seen in many biblical stories of the saints meeting with the Lord.
3. The same I would say for miracle accounts that are credible from other religions. You even say yourself “a different spirit may be working in one or both of them”. Okay, I think a different spirit is working in one of them, you answered it yourself. I’m not sure why we would default assume that churches bearing and invoking the name of Christ would be filled with a different spirit rather than the Holy Spirit. It’s certainly possible, but that seems to be your jump to assumption.
4. I agree with this mostly. The spiritual gifts are gifts that are given. However, Paul does say to “eagerly seek” the gifts. The biblical model also seems to show that gifts can be passed on through the laying on of hands. So I might not say you can sign up for an e-course to receive the gifts, you can certainly ask for them and go to other believers to receive the gifts.
5. Is tongues a neglected gift in church history? Yes. Did it never occur for “2000 years” as you said? No. Firstly, it’s begging the question about what tongues is in the New Testament. I believe it was glossolalia. So if that’s true, then that is in church history. There are other examples as well. Under the Tertullian (who was the first theologian to use the term Trinity) the Montanists were speaking in tongues. Only later we’re they condemned for the accusation of “new prophecy” but originally were seen as a return to the apostles use of the spiritual gifts. Celsus, an enemy of the early church, described Christian’s like this: “Having brandished these threats they then go on to add incomprehensible, incoherent, and utterly obscure utterances, the meaning of which no intelligent person could discover: for they are meaningless and nonsensical, and give a chance for any fool or sorcerer to take the words in whatever sense he likes". What does that sound like to you? Glossolalia.
Overall I think most of these objections are very bad and fallacious. I would stick to the biblical passages that we can argue about, you spent the least amount of time on these, which again, I feel suggest more an unintelligible language than an earthly one in most cases.
I invite Wretched (and anyone watching) to just try? ask?...to pray with their Spirit....just this day. Try once. It is VERY biblical and a helper!!! (1Cor14:39, 1Cor14:15)
I first came across tongues as a new Christian (first in the bible, then at a random church I attended-no home church, I asked why they spoke in tongues at church when the bible said not to and got dismissed.....prayed to God "why do these folks have this biblical gift and are using it in an ill-informed way, and I don't have this gift, please bless me with this gift'.....walked away from the prayer, passed out with a white light and spoke in tongues. This is two decades ago. I've never spoken in tongues in front of others. it is edifying to your own personal Christian life....which is thusly edifying to the church. Paul said, "I thank God I speak in tongues more than any of you." (1Cor14:18) it just needs to be ORDERLY if in a church.
----response-----
Questions for us to ponder:
1. Requires an interpreter.......only in church (due to unbelievers thinking you are crazy).....some tongues have no interpretation so can't be 'compared' as you suggest. This also counters your first point. There are a few types of tongues....other human languages AND languages of the Spirit and of angels.
don't do it w/o interpretation IN A CHURCH SERVICE (1Cor14:23, 28)
2. How do tongues edify the individual Christian without 'cognition' (and it's not valuable to edify the individual Christian within a body).....
(1Cor14:2) For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit.
(1Cor14:14) For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. (MY SPIRIT PRAYS!!!)
(1Cor14:15) So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my mind; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my mind.
(1Cor14:18, Rom8:26-27, 1Cor14:2,4, Ephesians 6:18)
3. other religions speaking in tongues ......
(who cares? are you calling God the devil?) Matthew 12:24
4. Can every Christian speak in tongues as a gift?
I believe so.....just do it (by yourself) (mark16:16-18) .....maybe not everyone gets it, no big deal....that part is not clear...
5. Groups who speak in tongues outside of 'orthodoxy'......a reminder that we are parts of the whole body, a reminder that you can't discount the Holy Spirit on behalf of 'human' interpretation....it's a purposeful stumbling block and reminder.....it is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit to call the works of the Holy Spirit
They will argue from the Bible that “speaking” in tongues and “praying “ in tongues are 2 different things!
So let me first say thank you for your gentle approach at this topic. So first let me say this, I (as someone who leans charismatic) agree with you in points that the way it’s (commonly) practiced is skewed from the intended purpose. But let me make a distinction. There is the Gift of Tongues in reference to a message from God which I’ve always either seen with an interpreter or someone who hesitated on the interpretation (because people can drop the ball on things sometimes) that is a more God through man to men thing. Then there’s the part where you’re praying in the unknown tongue which should always be a private endeavor, this is for the reason that us as human don’t always know what to pray. But this should NEVER replace praying “With the understanding”(in your native language). The problem is that a lot of people in the charismatic community not only do it outside of the unction of the Holy Spirit but as a way of saying, “Look how holy I am”. The gift gets put on a pedestal and replaces the Holy Spirit in terms of people’s attention. Funny thing though, historically when the Azusa Street revival was taking place there were people writing in unknown languages that were analyzed to be real languages. When I pray in tongues it sounds like an old Slavic language while I know someone who’s language sounds like French
As always on point and enlightening! Thank you Todd, you made a great point!
Thanks for this video, Todd. I hope you'll read the comments and post a new video of things that you've learned. I think I can give some quick answers to your challenges:
1. There is a personal and corporate use of tongues. Paul says that he wishes all would speak in tongues because tongues edifies the person (I Corinthians 14:4-5). What needs to be interpreted is the public use.
2. Certainly there are ways to be edified other than mentally. Tongues builds up and encourages and strengthens the tongue speaker spiritually, relationaly with God. Paul seems to believe that a person can be edified outside of the mind (I Corinthians 14:4).
3. We don't discredit Moses' miracles because they were counterfeited by the enemy (Exodus 7:11). Why would we discredit God's gift of tongues because the enemy copies and counterfeits?
4-5. Paul commands us to pursue spiritual gifts (I Corinthians 14:1). So ask for them! And I think we can all agree that someone who is a gifted teacher benefits from seminary classes that teach them how to teach better.
6. Historically, the Church has gotten lots of things wrong. And we should be clear, has the church stood opposed to tongues, or the misuse of tongues.
Lastly, thank you for not making this a hot debate. I think most people who speak in tongues feel attacked by those who don't. From my experience, it's those who are opposed to tongues who make the debate hot.
My challenge to you would be this: do you have a biblical argument against tongues? If you're looking for tongues speakers to defend their position, what is your biblical defense against tongues?
Yes he has, and it is reading the whole scripture of 1 Corinthians 14 out loud and understand it because you seemed to be misunderstanding what 1 corinthians 13 and 14 is. May God open up your eyes
@@carlopadillo587 Would you please send me the video he has posted in response to the things he's learned from the comments?
@@derekmueller8842 you can just read it yourself and find the answer yourself brother. It’s about reading and understanding the bible over and over again as this is our life.
Speaking in tongues is not like speaking in Spanish, Russian, German, and Korean or any phonetic languages 4:09" as you said? because it's a spiritual gift which can not be spoken to a human being but only to God, as 1 Corinthians 14:2 explains: "for anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit." Having said that, I agree it should be done orderly as the Bible teaches.
Well said. I have read through the comments and same old story. Very little biblical defense outside of normal charismatic answers.
Two simple verses for you to ponder my friend - 1 Corinthians 14:18 - Paul - "I thank my God I speak with tongues more than you all;" Followed by Paul's exhortation towards the end of his life. Philippians 4:9 - "Whatever you have learned or received or heard from me, or seen in me-put it into practice. And the God of peace will be with you." Paul who spoke in tongues more than all the church at Corithian exhorts you and I to follow his example.
Ever since I started watching your videos I’ve desired to have a deep longing for God. This video comes at a great time because I grew up in a church that would ask people if they want to be filled with the gift of tongues and I always thought it was just odd. But my question is what do you think about 1 Corinthians 14:2? It clearly states that one who speaks in tongues speaks not to man but to God and no one understands him.
But he/ she should be able to understand him or herself and what they are conveying to God. Even if others don't, I would think. Some here have commented that they have had personal experiences when they were alone that they felt were real, and perhaps they were, but the stuff I see in public does not appear genuine at all and is for show I believe. The Kenneth Copeland and Hedi Baker types don't help either. That is who those who believe in speaking in tongues should really be mad at, because they are abusing this miracle, if it really is happening.
@@claudioricardez6614 I know everyone thinks differently about whether you should understand the tongues your speaking or not, but I’m just thinking about it biblically not trying to take sides.
I know that there are a lot of believers who have a lot of questions concerning tongues and usually 1 Corinthians 14:2 is one of the verses used to defend the use of tongues as an angelic language. I would say try reading that entire chapter to get a better understanding of what Paul is trying to say. He is almost being sarcastic with his writing because of how absurd it was for him to have to explain the true meaning iand how it should be used properly.
Paul is essentially saying if he is praying without understanding what is coming out of his mouth then it is only coming from his spirit (little s not big S) and then he follows it up with he would rather pray with mind and spirit because he wants to know what he is praying to God about.
Some translations do not properly distinguish between tongues and tongue either. Some put an unknown tongue too. But this verse implies that it is a tongue with no human language connected to it. Distinguishing between the two is important because it will help clear up confusion as well because the word tongues meant languages whereas the word tongue usually meant a gibberish language that was not understood by humans.
I will leave with this though, Christ did not use any special language to communicate with God through prayer and when He taught the disciples how to pray He did not teach them it either. Actually a few verses before that He basically taught against it saying this "And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their many words. (Matthew 6:7, NASB) Now of course that verse is primarily talking about unbelievers who would pray loud and proud and fill their prayers with many words but since they did not truly believe then their prayers were essentially meaningless. However, if the gift of tongues were to be used, it is commanded that there needs to be someone who can interpret what is being said. So with all that being said if we are praying in a gibberish tongue and no one could fully interpret the prayer then, our prayer would be gibberish and therefore meaningless.
I truly do hope that this helps not only for you but for those who aren't sure either.
I was skeptical about the gift of tongues until I attended a prayer meeting where a lady payed her hands upon me and began praying for me. Then suddenly I felt this warmth on the area where she was touching me and it began to fill my body until, out of nowhere, I began uttering a language I did not understand. I was told that it wasn’t a message or a prophetic utterance but praise to God. Since then I’ve never spoken in tongues publicly; however, I’ve used in my private prayer life to pray when I’m not clear on what to pray for, or to just worship the Lord. But I don’t see it as anything different from any other gift. In fact, the gifts that edify the church are preferable to any gift that edifies the individual. I think the gift of tongues is legit, but not everyone has it. And that’s okay. God gives us the gift He wants each of us to have for the building up of the church and for His glory.
The spirit is one of Self control. I feel like a lot of Christians forget that
I saw a comment from someone who said they had experienced this gift at one time. They were thinking in their own language, but speaking in a foreign language they did not know, but understood by the person who spoke it. They said it was one of the weirdest feelings. I find this credible
Agreed! Would be nice to see one like this on exorcism, gift of healing and prophesy
Todd, I appreciate this chance you’ve given for me to tell you what I’ve gotten from my studies into this subject. This will be a bit long so, please bear with me.
1 Cor 14:2-4 ESV 2) For one who speaks in a tongue speaks NOT to MAN but to GOD, for NO ONE UNDERSTANDS HIM, but he utters mysteries in the SPIRIT. 3) On the other hand, the one who PROPHESIES speaks to PEOPLE for their up building and encouragement and consolation. The one who speaks in a tongue builds up HIMSELF, but the one who PROPHESIES builds up the church.
Paul continues on with your correct argument against tongues (but, only in a group!) You are correct. The Charismatic Movement went too far. Now, the vast majority of them don’t even know what the word states that I typed out above. Paul went on to say he’d rather speak 5 words clearly than many in a tongue as NO ONE understands him! I agree and I speak in tongues! But, reading this chapter slowly and carefully, I’ve come to believe it is just to God we speak this way.
So, my answer to your #1 question-I believe tongues is only between you and God. I’m not sure Pentecost was speaking in tongues as many people understood the 120 believers who were speaking! I believe it is a totally separate gift from Holy Spirit based on the rest of 1 Cor 14. #2) I use tongues only with God and I don’t know how to pray. Example: ambulance going down the road full throttle, lights flashing and sirens wailing. I pray in tongues. I don’t know what’s going on, but God does. It’s to Him I direct my prayers. 4&/or 5 Charismatic’s are hard headed! YOU CANNOT TEACH ANYONE ONE TONGUES! You either get it from Holy Spirit or if you’re going to school, you’re getting it from satan.
Last one: I honestly wasn’t aware others “religions” spoke in tongues. If they are using it the way 98% of Charismatics are, it’s most likely false and from hell.
No. I’m not a Charismatic. I was blindsided by the NAR and was shown the falsehoods they spew. However, there have been several instances when I wanted to have a word with you for things I think you repeat without studying for yourself! That’s what we’re called to do; be a workman, rightly dividing the Word of Truth. So, you out there! Don’t listen to me or Todd! Open you Bible and study! There are plenty of tools online that are free! You have NO EXCUSE!!!
FYI - I think we can be sure that while we don't know Todd Friel, he reads and knows the Bible better than most who comment on his videos because, no one puts out these many videos without having read and studied the bible. Yes there are some false teachers out there on RUclips but I don't believe that Todd Friel is one of them. You may not agree with his interpretation on the scriptures that talk about speaking in Tongues but that doesn't mean he doesn't know what he's talking about.
Amen! My gift is for my private prayer with God. I don’t think all the public shouting out that is supposedly tongues is real or right scripturally, but that doesn’t mean tongues as a whole is not real.
Amen!!!
@@Jason-L-Ledford Jason, let me be clearer. I NEVER said Todd is a false teacher. I’m pointing out it behoves all of us, Todd included, to study, for ourselves, the scriptures. Todd works with a group of people who all have a part in putting these videos together. He’s not a one man operation. With the volume he puts out, perhaps he hasn’t dug as deeply as some of us have in certain matters. You don’t know Todd, but how much more you don’t know me. I went to a Bible college, I’m a Berean (if you don’t know what that is, see Acts 17), I’ve studied end times prophecy for the last 9 years under men who are top in their class. And that’s just the start of who I am. It’s never a good practice to assume who you’re talking to doesn’t know what they’re talking about. Todd is a fine, upstanding man who knows his Word and loves His Lord. He’s also a good teacher, but we all can’t be scholars about everything in the Bible. I challenged him, as I challenged all of you to dig into the word. You’ll be amazed what God will reveal! Blessings!
Good post. I have done what I can to date with explaining this to whomever comes in my sphere of influence and it's basically what you have posted. Todd, like most baptists, have a very good theological background but don't want to explore the spiritual gifts outside of where they can understand with their own brains. Just my experience. I have referred to myself as a bapticostal and try to keep the pendulum hanging in the middle instead of swinging to far either side of this discussion. Again, good post.
I attended my wife's penticostal church for about 5 years or so and constantly watched the same elderly lady stand up and interupt the service from time to time using a phonetically slow (language?) to which others would praise while she spoke. No interpretation after by any third party, just awkward silence.. Then after she would interpret for herself. It was usually vague statements and describing how she felt as the spirit moved through her. I'm not sure either calling out something like that there or even after the fact would of resulted in anything positive.. Every time I talked to anyone in the church, they always gave me dramatically different accounts of both what it's purpose and it's place was within the church structure. The pastor himself would break out in random outbursts and later explained to me that that gift was to edify oneself with the holy spirit and i told him that wasn't bibical. God can do anything and speak through anyone or anything, and I wouldn't deminish that.. but Charasmatics seem dead set against the idea that God had practical applications for the gifts and that there were costs associated with said gifts. Never felt right with what went on there.
I thank you for this video. I used to wonder about tongues. I went to a Pentecostal church that told me I wasn't saved if I didn't speak in tongues. I knew I was saved so it made me mad and although I went there several times with my neighbors I always told them I knew I was saved and I didn't have to speak in tongues to prove it. I appreciate this teaching on tongues. I believe God gives the gift to those who need it, but I do not believe that it is for thousands of people to use all at the same time in a church service. I did try to speak in tongues a couple times, asking God to show me if it was true or not. I trusted God enough to know that after several attempts and failure to produce anything verbal from the Spirit that it was definitely not a gift God wanted to give to me. I don't condemn others who do it, but I wonder sometimes what God will say on judgment day to those who fake it. I also worry about it coming from another spirit. I did have a friend and I asked her if she ever spoke in tongues and I expected her to say no, but she didn't. She said she had spoken in tongues and I asked her what language she spoke and she gave the standard answer of "unknown" (there were NO unknown tongues spoken in the Apostolic Age) so I told her she should be very careful about speaking what she can't understand because it could come from the wrong spirit.
Edification requires intelligibility.
I don't think that I've hit "like" (after watching the whole video of course) so quickly in my life!
What's been sad and frustrating in my experience; I've laid out the case similarly as here a few different times to different parties, and each instance I was instantly met with anger and/or *finger in the ears* stating "la la la..." 🤔 Lol. Regardless of me trying hard to approach the topic gently.
1 Corinthians 14:2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men, but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries in the Spirit.
Thank you. Worrisome that if someone does not understand the Bible they reject what they do not know (yet) or understand.
He just glossed over when Paul speaks about tongues that are not for the church, but for speaking mysterious to God