Old...er pilot here. For starters most people own an airplane because they want one. There are side benefits as well but the biggest is convenience of no scheduling, knowing the airplane because it is yours and no one else is abusing it. I have owned factory Builts and homebuilts as well as I currently own now and though most are economical to own..they present their own unique situations in maintenance, stability, flying characterics etc. An airplane can be owned by most middle class income folks BUT your priorities must be there. Friday night's at the bar, bowling, eating out, smoking, etc can be more expensive than aircraft ownership. As far as saving time flying...sometimes but even if one has ratings such as I there are times when weather doesn't permit flight even if the pilot and airplane have the ratings and panel In short,,is owning an airplane doable? In most cases yes but DO IT BECAUSE YOU HAVE A PASSION TO FLY AND REALLY WANT ONE...then the small sacrifices made to own it won't even cross your mind. Now...go fly to breakfast and enjoy a sunrise like no other.
I purchased a '72 150L for my daughter to get her ppl with. Your cost figures are very much inline with my real world costs. With patience and attention to detail, deals can be found. Then add a little sweat equity throughout the year, cost of ownership will absolutely surprise you. So yes, these figures are inline with the real world. Thanks and keep the good information coming. 16yr old daughter and myself are throughly enjoying and learning from them.
iworksosumneednot no person when do is take a look at will spreadsheet hear of what everything costs involved with owning an aircraft so successful 150 we're going to look at our fuel burn oil burn engine deposit
I own my plane. Purchase in 1972. 1969 Cessna 150J. The cost in 45 years or so has been minimum. I'm much older and still fly once or twice a month if possible. My grandson, is taking his private license. I will pass on this aircraft once he's old enough to care for her. I've have taken excellent care to every little details. Thank you
My dad is an AME, a few pilots would trade annual inspection for a flight somewhere for my dad and I I’d help do the work, pilot flys us to some remote lake and comes back a week later to pick us up (dad paid for fuel) Pilot saved some money, we got some great flying and camping experiences Everyone happy in those deals
Excellent exchange! My instructor ferried planes for folks. When I got my license he offered me hours to assist him if it involved an SEL non performance. I guess we were legal...lol...I was just flying a plane.
Nowadays that would be considered a commercial operation in the U.S. because the pilot was receiving compensation for the *flight*. In the U.S. you can only "share costs" if the plane and pilot were going to that place anyway - no special trips allowed! Would anyone ever care...would anyone ever find out? Only if there was an accident or something that caught the attention of the FAA. And that never happens! Well, almost never happens...
I know five people who earned their PPL and only one is still flying. He is recreational, as were the others, but his love of flying caused him to buy an airplane and house it in his own hanger in Idaho. But, a couple years ago he called and wanted to meet up where I live in California and I asked him if he was going to fly down in his airplane. He said no because it was too expensive to do so. What fun is that, why have an airplane? The other four had similar stories, for whatever reason they got their pilot's license and did the typical weekend flying gig by flying about an hour some popular fly in airports for lunch and then fly home. I suppose doing this got old and they simply got bored and gave up the hobby. I know if I could ever afford to go through the training, I would have likely stayed with it because I love everything about flying, just being up in the air was a thrill and to be in control of an airplane, figuring out your flight plan, working the instruments and interfacing with controllers would be fascinating. In my sales work I flew commercial for years, never got tired of looking out the window, always with small binoculars or a camera to take photos with. Later on I became the international rep and flew worldwide, but after 9/11 flying became drudgery, especially after the airlines cut out all the perks, added more seats and security screenings became painful with long lines. Flying wasn't fun anymore and I turned negative at the thought of just parking in the long term lot. However, if I had the opportunity to fly my own airplane, my attitude would change back in a heartbeat, no doubt in my mind. Looking back, I'm sure my love of airplanes and flying came from the fact my father flew frequently in the 50s and 60s as the concert organist for the Hammond Organ Company. We used to see him off at the old San Francisco International airport, going to the gate and then up to the public open air balcony to watch his plane start up, taxi and then take off. It was much more exciting being at the airport back then, watching the sights, smell and sounds of commercial aircraft, the propeller driven iconic planes like the Super Constellation, DC7s and I used to get a kick out of seeing the first "screaming" turbo props and a large variety of all kinds of different aircraft back then. That all changed in 1960 when we witnessed the first American 707 jet fly over our house, opening a new era of flight. We lived under the take off flight path from SFO, fun to watch planes fly overhead, they did so frequently, but it wasn't fun when the noisy and belching black smoke jets started to fly over. They were so loud we could not hear conversation and learned to just shut up and stand there, ,as if you were taking a time out from living. This got old and it wasn't until some years later with the advent of quieter jets and noise abatement regulations that some welcome relief came. As an example of how noisy those jets were gave rise to a burglary ring called the "jet noise gang". They used the sound of a loud jet flying overhead to break into homes by window smashing as a cover to hide their activity. Having two uncles who were jet fighter pilots obviously had an influence on my interest in airplanes and flying as well. If I could have afforded the cost of owning my own airplane, or even renting one, I'm sure I would still be flying to this day. Just the thrill of being in the air and viewing the earth below would have been enough to keep my motivation level high.
A few comments: 1. It's totally not true that your engine must be overhauled at TBO. The TBO number absolutely does not apply to pt 61 or pt 91 flying. In fact, many flight schools don't even do that. Studies show that engine failure happens in the first 250 to 500 hours after SMOH, not at the other end of the spectrum. Further, your engine doesn't magically decide to fail at some point. A better way to go is to do an oil analysis at every oil change, do a boroscope ever you pull plugs or have an annual done and pay attention to what your engine is saying to you from oil temps, oil burn and engine noise. 2. Annual cost is highly dependent upon the airplane type and location. 3. Tying down verse hangar...In many areas of the country, tying down will end up costing you in more in maintenance than having it hangared. 4. For a 150/2 doing the Mogas conversion would be advisable. The club I belong to, did exactly that. The cost to use the plane is $69.00/hr. 5. Proficiency really dictates that a pilot should be flying five hours per month (and not the same hour, doing the same thing, five times in a month.) 6. Insurance. The biggest thing you can do to get your insurance costs down is to build hours (above 250), fly more than 30 to 50 hours per year, and get your instrument rating. Of course, also keeping the plane hangared helps. As does belonging to the EAA and AOPA. Plus taking the insurance company recommended classes. Just a note only because you asked: As far as certified non-LSA aircraft are concerned: I Piper Warrior has 25% less parts than does a Cessna 172. Plus, you've got to love the blue collar/off the shelf mentality that went into building them. Great video. Keep it up.
Exactly!!!...Fly often to keep oil flowing. Change oil every 50hrs, put some good additives in, get annual and follow POH operating procedures. You can probably double TBO.
I'm searching for my first airplane. Probably will purchase a 150/152. I also have an A&P certificate, so will be able to save quite a bit in maintenance expenses. Plan on becoming a proficient pilot and then teach all my 4 younger children how to fly. I'm excited!
I've been looking into getting my private pilots license and trying to figure out if it is feasible for me to consider purchasing my own plane when I get out of the Army and this video was very informative. Thank you for making it :)
Hi.Here in Europe, things are a bit different. I am in Poland and, obviously each EU state is slightly different, but generally speaking, a cost of Avgas is much higher.I pay 2.20$/litre or 8.40$/US gallon.Even so, Poland is still cheaper comparing to some other EU states.For that reason alone, it makes more sense to actually buy a modern Sports Light Aircraft like Sportcruiser or Tecnam with Rotax engine.Just like Cessna 150 it will take 2 people but will burn cheaper fuel at a lower rate. Cessna 150 will burn 6 US gallons /hour and Sportcruiser 4 US gallons/ hour.Therefore Sportcruiser will cost me 4x 4.5$/US gallon of Mogas=18$/hour and Cessna 150 6x8.40$/US gallon=50$/hour. THAT is WHOPPING almost 3 times more to fly Cessna 150 in terms of fuel cost. Sportcruiser will burn that fuel flying a bit faster than Cessna 150. Second hand Cessna 150 from the seventies will cost me roughly 50% of brand new Sportcruiser and 75% of 5 years old one. Sportcruiser will have better avionics and range so you can actually fly it somewhere. If you want to own your first aircraft here I would not consider Cessna 150 as my first choice.
Don’t worry about the “umms” haha, not sure what those other people mean by it. This is a very user-friendly video with 100% good intentions, and the fact you made it so personal and real was a huge benefit. Definitely better than if it had sounded like a pre-recording or an advertisement. Thumbs up
Colton Tallman Oh that’s great. I’m looking forward to go to school to become an A&P after my senior year of high school. Then I’ll be looking forward to getting a private license >:D
Anything that flies, floats, or fornicates is cheaper to rent. That being said, there is something about knowing that your bird is going to be sitting on the ramp, ready to go when you want. You know who flew it last, how well it has been maintained, and where the last load of fuel came from. You don't have to deal with the rental people. That alone is a plus.
beaconrider depends on how much you fly, there’s bound to be a crossover point if you fly relatively often. The owner can’t really rent a plane for less than their ownership costs.
A 172 here in anchorage is 165-189 an hour dual 145-160 solo. typically you can fly a 172 at 8 GPH plus about 50$ an hour in hourly incidental saving. So I can own and fly for 80-90$ an hour solo and rent the instructor for 30-40 an hour so I’m saving roughly 50-70$ an hour. So basically for each 1-1.3 hours of renting I can fly my own plane for 2 hours. So for what I spend on a normal two hour rental ($304ish @ 152hr mean average) I would get 1.4-1.6 hours “free” that’s $134 for the average flight in savings multiply that by flying once a week means you save $6,968 a year. If you could somehow set aside that 7k each year you’d be able to overhaul/replace the engine every 3-4 years if you wanted. Or buy that fancy glass panel you want, or fly another 80 hours a year.
When I was getting my private pilot license, I purchased an extra insurance policy, because the flight school had a $2500.00 deductible, that the student was responsible for. The insurance for me was only $25.00 a month with a $50.00 deductible, and also included a $100,000.00 insurance on my life. Renting a Cessna 150 was Very affordable, and NO monthly costs. You have some Great info! Thanks so much.
Lloyd Morrison I'm planning on moving to Tampa Florida and I'm interested in considering obtaining my pilot license and renting a plane. Would that be better than flying with a commercial airline? I never considered this route before but I think flying myself is a new adventure.
This is the first time I've seen this channel. I'm finally seeing answers to practical question that nobody ever seemed to talk about regarding cost. I thought is was much higher. Thanks !
Syndicate is the cheapest way ..my syndicate has 14 members so fixed costs are reasonable. I have found availability is not an issue if you book well ahead for a long flight of a week or so.
Unless you fly a monstrous amount, it's always more economical to rent or be a member of a club, because the fixed costs get spread around. However, that depends on availability of clubs/rentals and how far you have to go and so on. All that having been said, your rentals are incredibly cheap. That isn't that much above just the fuel cost. That must be somewhere that fuel is very cheap, and hangars too.
A 172 here in anchorage is 165-189 an hour dual 145-160 solo. typically you can fly a 172 at 8 GPH plus about 50$ an hour in hourly incidental saving. So I can own and fly for 80-90$ an hour solo and rent the instructor for 30-40 an hour so I’m saving roughly 50-70$ an hour. So basically for each 1-1.3 hours of renting I can fly my own plane for 2 hours. So for what I spend on a normal two hour rental ($304ish @ 152hr mean average) I would get 1.4-1.6 hours “free” that’s $134 for the average flight in savings multiply that by flying once a week means you save $6,968 a year. If you could somehow set aside that 7k each year you’d be able to overhaul/replace the engine every 3-4 years if you wanted. Or buy that fancy glass panel you want, or fly another 80 hours a year.
Hi. I'm brand new to your channel. I'm kind of an old guy (68 years old) to get started in aviation. Twenty-two years ago I had a stroke that took my right arm, leg, and other parts. I was going to the gym until Covid19 changed how we can't be together like before. The reason I spoke of going to the gym is that I'm beginning to get a little right leg movement again. Legs and arms are kind of important when you want to fly an aircraft. So no "certified" aircraft are easy to fly with just your left hand, so I started looking at "experimentals." But I noticed some experimentals look as if I could reach all the controls. I'm 6'5" and have 37" arms. I like to put stuff down on a spreadsheet so I REALLY know how much something costs. Another thing you might consider is for the person flying could choose to fly an "Experimental" plane. You might say it can cut your" life." That's true but most "experimentals" are well made, you can do your own maintenance and you have the freedom to choose a little peppier engine & prop. Course you can't put an 800 hp engine into an airframe only meant only to carry a person at 110 knots with an old 110 hp engine. The plane will start falling apart very soon after your old 150 hp engine gets replaced by an 800 hp engine. But you can do some homework and find an "experimental" plane manufacturer that has a good reputation. So, you can cut your annual cost flying a different kind of plane. An "experimental."
I have owned a few airplanes over 35 years. My first was a 150L. I'd suggest changes to your spreadsheet. For one thing, the O-200 in the 150 has no oil filter, so the maintenance manual calls for oil changes at 25 hours, not 50. The fuel flow estimate is a little high at 5.5 gph - I averaged under 5 gph for the 600 hours we had a 150. You omitted a couple cost items. One is the static and transponder cert every 24 months. These days, anyone who flies to get places will also pay for some kind of chart and database subscription. On the 150 there are a few repetitive maintenance issues. One is the starter drive, another is stuck exhaust valves (unless running mo-gas), and I budget for spark plug and vacuum pump replacement. Those items may add a couple bucks an hour to operating costs. Your basic approach using a spreadsheet is spot on. I have one very similar to yours, but with larger numbers, for my R182.
I believe it's probably true that 85+% of flying is one person in the plane. That makes a Cessna 150 the cheapest way to go for recreational flying. Then you rent a 172 when you have a companion and split the cost, or a 182 if there are three.
Bought a C-150 4 months ago and my costs are pretty much in line with yours except the maintenance costs can go down quite a bit if you do the work yourself. Insurance for me as a zero time student was $640/year for $15k hull. Taking my checkride in 3 weeks then I will pass the plane to the next guy.
I paid $39/hr wet solo in a rental C152II back in '98 when I was training back in the day when aviation was affordable.... I have a light trike and seeking training for it before I maiden .... training for those things is a whopping $115 - $175/hr dual instruction. Thanks for the ownership costs break down on a plane I may be interested in owning privately....
This is a fantastic video. Especially for myself, someone who has 12 hours spread out over 14 years oh, haha. I can't wait to own my own plane it's an experience I would love to enjoy with my son
In a few years when the mortgage and car are paid off, and credit card balances are down lower (I live in a small rural Southern town that has nothing but an, ugh, Walmart, so most anything I need or want I have to get online), I might be able to get a surplus D7 Battle Cruiser or ancient Cessna 172. A limiting consideration is the nearest CFI is almost sixty statute miles away.
Multiple owners could be a problem. I have done this with 2 other friends a few years ago, all I will say it's a good way to lose friends for the pettiest of reasons. Won't do that again.
Haha, ya it certainly can be challenging when you have different ideas....best to have really well ironed out "rules" or "bylaws" before going in with partners.
a rock solid partnership agreement helps this go smoother. there is an old saying; "A little paperwork between friends makes for better friends" (or something like that)
Thank you for this video. I am about to enter flight school with a boyhood dream of becoming a commercial pilot. My wife's dad owns 2 planes and she said we should just take his. I thought about selling my sports car out right so I can buy a good condition used plane. I figure I will miss the sports car but in the long run in commercial land, I can always buy another...and some!!! :)
My dream house is to have a medium house with a big plot of land to put a soft strip and a mini hangar. I'd want an Extra 300, and a Cubcrafter, and if I truly become rich- some form of four seater to island hop across the Atlantic. Doing a biochem major to get there tho lol
Get a quad copter instead, for about $800 for everything total (including workdesk tools) you can have something that will fit in a backpack, that you can drive to anywhere scenic, and be up in the air in minutes. Fly around, look around for 3-20 minutes, land, go on to the next scenic spot. No risk to your neck, no pilots license or training to get, fly fast and low or longrange and high. It's cheaper than even paramotors, or ultralights, or hang gliding, or gliding. fpv.air-war.org
Good Vid John...for my first plane, I bought one with two buddies and we had a bank account that we deposited to each time we flew...worked great. One thing you many want to include are AD's (Airworthiness Directives.) Usually there are a few AD's so maybe factor in another 3-500 a year...note that AD and Annual expenses differ for retractable gear aircraft and certainly if you are flying a twin.
The only discrepancy I see here is that most people are not going to own their own hangar plus yes you did add the price for fuel but not for a full tank of AV gas which adds substantially.
I can only dream of $55/month for a tie down. The monthly rate for a standard tie down at the local airport, San Carlos Airport (KSQL) here in the San Francisco Bay Area is $139/mo. But you are right that most places seem to hover around $55/mo including most other parts of California.
I remember San Carlos airport well because I grew up in South San Francisco. I would say San Carlos or any airport in and around silicon valley is going to be expensive. I would venture to say these airports have limited space as well because there are many people there making big bucks in the electronics industry.
2 years ago, these numbers would’ve had me drooling. Since then, I’ve bought and sold a good old 1973 Cessna 150L. I can tell you life doesn’t play out quite as cleanly as a spread sheet of averages. Also, as a career-minded guy, while I DID still save money by buying a C150 (compared to renting), what I DIDN’T save was time. Having money tied up in the plane kept me from working on my ratings, and put me behind about 18 months. This video isn’t “un-true”; it just depends on what you want the airplane for.
VERY realistic numbers. WELL DONE !! I have owned a 1964 C172 for many years, and I can beat these numbers consistently, every year. Mogas STC = I beat your fuel costs Same mechanic for many years, so we have mutual trust, and he has taught me to do many of the basic maintenance myself. (more savings) Tie-downs at my airport run 55 bucks per month. (hangar is over 400 per month, so, that's not an option) Obviously, adding toys and goodies (like upgrading the avionics, or, adding a new paint job) blows the budget BIG time... but if you don't have the $$, you simply choose not to do it. (she still fly's lovely even when the paint is ugly:)
Nice and informative vid. One critisim for us newbies....Please explain the acronyms you use so we don't have to stop the vid and google what it is you are talking about. Specifically you throw around three acronyms: hobbs, fbo and A&P tech. Would take only an extra minute to explain the acronyms that you seem to think everyone already knows.
Okay, I have owned and operated 12 aircraft. There are a lot of factors to consider. How much do you fly? My rule of thumb was 100 hours a year to be cost effective. If you can find a good well maintained 150/152 ( I prefer the 152) you'll be lucky. Most have spent their lives in flight training schools and lead a hard life. I have owned Mooney's, Cessna 150's and 152's, I have owned 182's and my last aircraft was a Turbo 206. My first airplane wasTomahawk. Which was cheap. The most important thing one can do is a pre-purchase inspection. That'' save you a lot of headaches. Second, consider how much you'll fly and what avionics you want on your little bird. Avionics are not cheap, Annual inspection can be costly as well. Fuel and insurance can vary with your time and experience. If you use the plane for training expect to pay more for insurance. Been flying these birds for over 30 years and was a former DPE and flight school owner.
Including monthly flying club dues, I pay 45.60 per hour for a C150 at 100 hrs per year. Beats owning and renting and I'm insured through the club (Hull & Liability) included in that rate.
I own a Lancair 360. Cost per hour is incredible (225mph @ 8 gph); but the fixed costs kill me. I wish I would have been able to find a partner early on to split it with.
You can get a kitfox or a cub and get waaay better fuel consumption with a much higher cruise speed and not even have to have a private pilot licence and have a better aircraft then the Cessna 150
For utility and actually being able to do meaningful cross countries, I would recommend the AA5A Grumman Cheetah. 125kts 7.4gph with 4 people and a good distance. The 180hp Grumman Tiger will get you there slightly faster but at a much higher burn rate. Love mine!
Before you get together with with other guys I suggest you make sure you have similar values/outlooks. There is nothing worst than joining a syndicate only to find that one of your fellow pilots is happy leaving his old coffee strap in with the maps! Perhaps they think a heavy landing is just a bit of fun and I am sure there are still the odd pilot that actual believes that pre-flight checks just involve kicking the tires; joining a syndicate may sound great but it may cost you more than you think if you don't join the right one
My AA1 costs based on 75 hrs a year: Insurance and parking $37 Fuel $45 and maintenance $60 an hour (Cdn funds). The last couple of annuals have been costly!
I'm buying a 150 because I'm tired of hoping an airplane is available then driving an hour to get to it. I just want to go to my local airport and actually spend my time flying. That and the ability to take it out for a weekend without scheduling months in advance and hoping the weather is good the entire time
i don't fly, but I've always had an interest in. Problem being I could never afford one! But, I found your monetary breakdown very interesting because I always wanted to know what the real cost of owning an airplane would be, now I know. Thanks a lot for the information.
a 100k plane cost roughly 1700 a month to own and house in a hangar and fly. You can "own" one for a little cheap and not fly but what would be the point? You can also fly the crap out of one for as much as 2300 a month. The cheapest part of owning a plane in the cost of the plane itself...
Found your video informative. Makes flying sound more reasonable for the average person. Another plus would be the ability to fly when you want verses when a plane is available to rent.
Very interesting break down, a great starting point for a lot of thought. I’d like to see one possibly that factors in taking a note on an airplane, say alone for $30,000, that would certainly change the dynamics quite a bit
Thank you for taking the time to explain airplane ownership cost vs. renting. The county where I live levies yearly personal property taxes and airplanes are taxed at a rate of $4.68 per $100 of assessed value (same rate as automobiles), which will add to ownership cost.
I can tell you from experience the sr20 is much (much) higher, but its also a lot more useful airplane. If you just want to fly yourself around for fun, the 150 is hard to beat for costs... but I can't imagine trying to use it to travel anywhere.
After hanging around a boat owner in the 1980s, I believe my most important parameter is... Living where you keep it. In this case I would want to own a house in one of those rarer residential airparks. These being houses with hangars and a shared airstrip. No cause to fuss about an object miles away and you certainly cannot be without the needed tools when working on it. Of course, then the downside is the absence of convenient fueling and on and on. And no, a tie down would not be enough for me anyway. My problem? I do not have the money!!!
thank you so much for posting this. I was scared to get my PPL and A & P due to seeing news stories about it being dangerous but now im looking into getting my own plane and getting my PPL/A&P. plus seeing that you can rent out your plane is pretty cool.
Good summary of the costs of owning an airplane. I got my private in 1971 for a little over $800. I always rented 150's 172's and Piper Cherokee's etc. When the rental per hour got to $50 I didn't fly much any more. My son bought a Grumman AA1A in 2000 for $20,000 and we put a lot more into it with avionics etc. I flew it a lot, over 100 hours a year some years. He sold it in 2012, He flies a 7.5 million dollar King Air 350i now (not his, he flies for a charter company) and I didn't fly at all from 2008 until last Feb when I finally bought my first airplane a 1946 J3 Cub for $32,000. I love it and fly almost every day when the weather is good , but only in the daytime and no Class B or C airspace. No electrical system and no transponder. I do have a battery powered radio and intercom. It is very cheap to fly and my first annual a month ago only cost me $250. I keep it hangared since it is a fabric covered plane and the sun damage would cost me more than hangar rent. The hangar is my largest expense. It is the only way I can afford to fly and it is a blast to fly it. Thanks to my wife's lump sum retirement I was able to pay cash for the plane, I have never been able to afford one up until now.
hey Jim i would love to talk with you some time about your cub, i just got current again and for some reason the cub hasn't been on my radar until recently email me at fitritefab@Gmail.com
I took some PPL flight training in a J-3 Cub. N6027H in Chino CA. We had it up over 10,000 feet at one time, two people. Another time did about 20 turn spin from 9-10,000 feet and no problem coming out of it. One of the most FUN airplanes I ever flew. Enjoy it !
Jim New You are my hero! Using your wife’s retirement money to buy an airplane! Greatest thing I’ve ever heard! I want to fly so damn badly but I’m getting so much crap from my wife about how much it costs, I need you in my life I think, lol
I have to say, thank you for making this video! I heard Grant Thompson make a passing reference about buying an airplane to log hours for his license (and how that wound up costing less than renting) and I've been digging into the cost of a plane, maintenance, etc as a response and found this video very informative!
I owned a 172n and the cost for tie downs and gas are way higher today with gas at almost $6/gal and takedowns of $120/mo. You really can't do anything with a 150 except fly yourself. If yoy habe a family or want to fly with friends you need a 172. FBOs around here in NY are getting about $120/hour - wet
I am a student sport pilot getting ready for checkride. I am buying a new plane. The aero legion or l600 is 150000. It will come with auto pilot, full dynon glass panel, leather heated seats, parachute for the plane and rotax 914 turbo engine. A 30 year old 150 is nothing I want to fly across country in.
You said you would put a couple of other spreadsheets comparing costs of different airplanes including a Mooney. I checked out your website (Nice job!) but only found the 150 spreadsheet. I'm considering purchasing a Mooney m20j and having a spreadsheet to look at for that would be fantastic. Great job on your videos too!
The more you fly the more your per hour flight cost goes down. I was renting a C172N for $125 per hour. Flying 200hrs a year in my own C172N puts me at about $80 per hour. Sure everything falls on me to repair and/or get repaired but I look at the repairs as part of hobby and showing love to my plane.
This has helped shed some light.What about fractional ownership vs renting?Our fbo is $150 wet for an hour plus renters insurance.We have both tie down and hangers.But the hangers are more so reserved for the expensive planes.
A lot depends on where you live. Here on the CO front range a C150 would be impractical due to winds and our 6500ft alt here in COS. I've sliced and diced the math and it's a bridge too far. You basically have to have a hanger here due to hail and the harsh elements, the only tie downs I see are transient aircraft. Even if I was given a FREE airplane the fuel, oil, ins, annual, mnx, small reserve for upgrades/overhaul and it's pushing $15,000 annually based on 100 flying hrs. And that's not factoring in the plane itself! You can rent a GPS IFR equipped C172SP or even a Hawk XP for about $150/hr. It comes down to wanting the flexibility and prestige ownership gives you. Here, you need deep pockets. I'm not convinced that older light aircraft are much of an equity investment but not sure on that.
Cost/benefit analysis like this should usually include an "opportunity cost" calculation as well. In this case, foregoing investment of $18K at ~7% for 10 years costs $36173 this figure should also be included in the fixed costs of the aircraft.
Wow, didn't realize that the major overhaul at 2000 hours at $8 per hour estimate would be $16000, the same cost at the original purchase price! Of course, at 100 hours per year that's 20 years between overhauls.
Also some parts that are not airworthy any more still have value as some times aircraft engines are adapted on to other things such as air boats where hours does not mean as much so selling them drops the cost as well
I think this is all ok on paper but just to be aware that reality can sometimes be a lot different. If you are expecting a group of friends to fly a certain number of hours a year, to keep costs at a more manageable level, you can normally pretty much half what they say they will fly due to various reasons. In my experience people joining a group will over estimate the number of hours they say they will fly by quite a margin. A group that I had been involved in, most people said they would fly between 30 and 40 hours per year, including myself, but the reality was more like 15-20 hours. With a group of 16 people, as your spreadsheet demonstrates, this can be a large cost increase/hour. I would also always try and factor in a contingency fund just in case you suddenly get a large unexpected maintenance bill. Anyway may you be blessed with great flying weather.
Just doing one airplane per video, I've owned 14 different airplanes, so I'm just going to be using data from ones I've actually owned and maintained rather than estimates. I'll have some up for a cherokee, aeronca, 172, etc. Just the more common ones.
10 GPH on climb for a 172 Cessna and cruise average, unless you are riding the downwind and the jet stream. I beg to differ the differentiation from said 150 to 172. It has been said that the majority of fuel burn and climb time on a 150 by Rod Machado, was the majority of his accumulation of PIC time! Vx or Vy! Confim please!
cost to purchase is higher in both of those. the 172 burns about 7.5 GPH. a 182 burns about 12-13 GPH. You should be able to make your own spreadsheets... otherwise, perhaps you are not ready to be a pilot...
no, I am in southern Ontario, and these are realistic numbers. In fact, owned an old C172 for many years, and I beat the crap out of these numbers EVERY year, without fail.
Rental prices for the Skyhawk at the airports I rent out of are hard to beat. $95 an hour, and that is with the tax INCLUDED. Granted they still have the antique panel.
I want to build a kitfox experimental I can fold the wings back keep it in a enclosed trailer on the side of my house. Since it's experimental I can do my own work on it.
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Old...er pilot here.
For starters most people own an airplane because they want one. There are side benefits as well but the biggest is convenience of no scheduling, knowing the airplane because it is yours and no one else is abusing it.
I have owned factory Builts and homebuilts as well as I currently own now and though most are economical to own..they present their own unique situations in maintenance, stability, flying characterics etc.
An airplane can be owned by most middle class income folks BUT your priorities must be there.
Friday night's at the bar, bowling, eating out, smoking, etc can be more expensive than aircraft ownership.
As far as saving time flying...sometimes but even if one has ratings such as I there are times when weather doesn't permit flight even if the pilot and airplane have the ratings and panel
In short,,is owning an airplane doable? In most cases yes but DO IT BECAUSE YOU HAVE A PASSION TO FLY AND REALLY WANT ONE...then the small sacrifices made to own it won't even cross your mind.
Now...go fly to breakfast and enjoy a sunrise like no other.
You nailed it. I always tell some of my friends that they are spending more money doing other activities than flying. Priority Priority Priority
And by the way, I am in the process of purchasing my own. I feel like we need to tell more aviation lovers that owning a plane is doable.
So....how do I convince my wife its a good idea though?
Shabuti R18 when you find out, let me know. An old client of mine told me “get it before you’re married, so she can’t say no.”
@@jayschipp7529 if you need permission from you wife to do something you love, you have the wrong wife.
I purchased a '72 150L for my daughter to get her ppl with. Your cost figures are very much inline with my real world costs. With patience and attention to detail, deals can be found. Then add a little sweat equity throughout the year, cost of ownership will absolutely surprise you.
So yes, these figures are inline with the real world. Thanks and keep the good information coming. 16yr old daughter and myself are throughly enjoying and learning from them.
Glad it helps! Fly Safe!
Hey it's me your daughter
iworksosumneednot no person when do is take a look at will spreadsheet hear of what everything costs involved with owning an aircraft so successful 150 we're going to look at our fuel burn oil burn engine deposit
ghost
Hi this is your brother!
I own my plane. Purchase in 1972. 1969 Cessna 150J. The cost in 45 years or so has been minimum.
I'm much older and still fly once or twice a month if possible. My grandson, is taking his private license.
I will pass on this aircraft once he's old enough to care for her. I've have taken excellent care to every little details.
Thank you
I wish my family flew and I could caretake one for them.
@@NicholasLittlejohn same
I bet the insurance company figures that in most cases if you total your plane then there will be nobody left to pay!
Lol, not exactly, but funny point
🤣
What's on the gravestone??
Gone but not forgotten.
they would still pay to the estate.
Talk about black humour. sheesh. :)
That’s the reason motorcycle insurance is so cheap. Like $100/year cheap
My dad is an AME, a few pilots would trade annual inspection for a flight somewhere for my dad and I
I’d help do the work, pilot flys us to some remote lake and comes back a week later to pick us up (dad paid for fuel)
Pilot saved some money, we got some great flying and camping experiences
Everyone happy in those deals
David Anderson
Unforgettable trips! The last one was to fire lake British Columbia
Wasn’t a long flight time, no civilization in sight though
Excellent exchange! My instructor ferried planes for folks. When I got my license he offered me hours to assist him if it involved an SEL non performance. I guess we were legal...lol...I was just flying a plane.
Nowadays that would be considered a commercial operation in the U.S. because the pilot was receiving compensation for the *flight*. In the U.S. you can only "share costs" if the plane and pilot were going to that place anyway - no special trips allowed! Would anyone ever care...would anyone ever find out? Only if there was an accident or something that caught the attention of the FAA. And that never happens! Well, almost never happens...
@@ThatBobGuy850 Yea but..........🙊🙉🙈....🤫
If the pilots are non commercial that could be considered illegal payment for a flight.
I know five people who earned their PPL and only one is still flying. He is recreational, as were the others, but his love of flying caused him to buy an airplane and house it in his own hanger in Idaho. But, a couple years ago he called and wanted to meet up where I live in California and I asked him if he was going to fly down in his airplane. He said no because it was too expensive to do so. What fun is that, why have an airplane? The other four had similar stories, for whatever reason they got their pilot's license and did the typical weekend flying gig by flying about an hour some popular fly in airports for lunch and then fly home. I suppose doing this got old and they simply got bored and gave up the hobby.
I know if I could ever afford to go through the training, I would have likely stayed with it because I love everything about flying, just being up in the air was a thrill and to be in control of an airplane, figuring out your flight plan, working the instruments and interfacing with controllers would be fascinating.
In my sales work I flew commercial for years, never got tired of looking out the window, always with small binoculars or a camera to take photos with. Later on I became the international rep and flew worldwide, but after 9/11 flying became drudgery, especially after the airlines cut out all the perks, added more seats and security screenings became painful with long lines. Flying wasn't fun anymore and I turned negative at the thought of just parking in the long term lot. However, if I had the opportunity to fly my own airplane, my attitude would change back in a heartbeat, no doubt in my mind.
Looking back, I'm sure my love of airplanes and flying came from the fact my father flew frequently in the 50s and 60s as the concert organist for the Hammond Organ Company. We used to see him off at the old San Francisco International airport, going to the gate and then up to the public open air balcony to watch his plane start up, taxi and then take off. It was much more exciting being at the airport back then, watching the sights, smell and sounds of commercial aircraft, the propeller driven iconic planes like the Super Constellation, DC7s and I used to get a kick out of seeing the first "screaming" turbo props and a large variety of all kinds of different aircraft back then. That all changed in 1960 when we witnessed the first American 707 jet fly over our house, opening a new era of flight. We lived under the take off flight path from SFO, fun to watch planes fly overhead, they did so frequently, but it wasn't fun when the noisy and belching black smoke jets started to fly over. They were so loud we could not hear conversation and learned to just shut up and stand there, ,as if you were taking a time out from living. This got old and it wasn't until some years later with the advent of quieter jets and noise abatement regulations that some welcome relief came. As an example of how noisy those jets were gave rise to a burglary ring called the "jet noise gang". They used the sound of a loud jet flying overhead to break into homes by window smashing as a cover to hide their activity.
Having two uncles who were jet fighter pilots obviously had an influence on my interest in airplanes and flying as well. If I could have afforded the cost of owning my own airplane, or even renting one, I'm sure I would still be flying to this day. Just the thrill of being in the air and viewing the earth below would have been enough to keep my motivation level high.
Buying a powered parachute may make more sense.
A few comments:
1. It's totally not true that your engine must be overhauled at TBO. The TBO number absolutely does not apply to pt 61 or pt 91 flying. In fact, many flight schools don't even do that. Studies show that engine failure happens in the first 250 to 500 hours after SMOH, not at the other end of the spectrum. Further, your engine doesn't magically decide to fail at some point. A better way to go is to do an oil analysis at every oil change, do a boroscope ever you pull plugs or have an annual done and pay attention to what your engine is saying to you from oil temps, oil burn and engine noise.
2. Annual cost is highly dependent upon the airplane type and location.
3. Tying down verse hangar...In many areas of the country, tying down will end up costing you in more in maintenance than having it hangared.
4. For a 150/2 doing the Mogas conversion would be advisable. The club I belong to, did exactly that. The cost to use the plane is $69.00/hr.
5. Proficiency really dictates that a pilot should be flying five hours per month (and not the same hour, doing the same thing, five times in a month.)
6. Insurance. The biggest thing you can do to get your insurance costs down is to build hours (above 250), fly more than 30 to 50 hours per year, and get your instrument rating. Of course, also keeping the plane hangared helps. As does belonging to the EAA and AOPA. Plus taking the insurance company recommended classes.
Just a note only because you asked: As far as certified non-LSA aircraft are concerned: I Piper Warrior has 25% less parts than does a Cessna 172. Plus, you've got to love the blue collar/off the shelf mentality that went into building them.
Great video. Keep it up.
Exactly!!!...Fly often to keep oil flowing. Change oil every 50hrs, put some good additives in, get annual and follow POH operating procedures. You can probably double TBO.
Granddad was right when he quipped "If if floats, flies or fucks - rent it."
Yep I owned a plane. that is very true.
True. Maybe an exeption for the ultra light aircraft. In France renting is very expensive so if flying a lot it is better to own one.
I'm searching for my first airplane. Probably will purchase a 150/152. I also have an A&P certificate, so will be able to save quite a bit in maintenance expenses.
Plan on becoming a proficient pilot and then teach all my 4 younger children how to fly. I'm excited!
I've been looking into getting my private pilots license and trying to figure out if it is feasible for me to consider purchasing my own plane when I get out of the Army and this video was very informative. Thank you for making it :)
Hi.Here in Europe, things are a bit different. I am in Poland and, obviously each EU state is slightly different, but generally speaking, a cost of Avgas is much higher.I pay 2.20$/litre or 8.40$/US gallon.Even so, Poland is still cheaper comparing to some other EU states.For that reason alone, it makes more sense to actually buy a modern Sports Light Aircraft like Sportcruiser or Tecnam with Rotax engine.Just like Cessna 150 it will take 2 people but will burn cheaper fuel at a lower rate. Cessna 150 will burn 6 US gallons /hour and Sportcruiser 4 US gallons/ hour.Therefore Sportcruiser will cost me 4x 4.5$/US gallon of Mogas=18$/hour and Cessna 150 6x8.40$/US gallon=50$/hour. THAT is WHOPPING almost 3 times more to fly Cessna 150 in terms of fuel cost. Sportcruiser will burn that fuel flying a bit faster than Cessna 150. Second hand Cessna 150 from the seventies will cost me roughly 50% of brand new Sportcruiser and 75% of 5 years old one. Sportcruiser will have better avionics and range so you can actually fly it somewhere. If you want to own your first aircraft here I would not consider Cessna 150 as my first choice.
Yeah but your currency is worth quite a bit more than ours. Dollar per dollaryour currency is worth 35% more than ours
I love the first person view it makes me feel like I’m getting in the plane
$4.50 per gallon...
And here I pay 4.50€ per litre...
I want American fuel prices, lol
Come by and visit us!
And stop voting for socialists.
You what?? I call bullshit on that one ^^ I live in Norway, which is quite expensive, and I pay around 1,7 euro per litre...
Your taxes for all that 'free' healthcare and other services is the problem.
Here in Georgia, US, it's like $1.90/gal. Which I think would come out to £.90/liter or so.
Wow, the price of a 150 has gone through the roof in just 4 years.
Don’t worry about the “umms” haha, not sure what those other people mean by it. This is a very user-friendly video with 100% good intentions, and the fact you made it so personal and real was a huge benefit.
Definitely better than if it had sounded like a pre-recording or an advertisement.
Thumbs up
In North Jersey Tie down are $275 month. Annuals with no major work or parts $1500 and Insurance $1100
Ridiculous, I'd just take it somewhere else for annual.
I’m an A&P so now this is looking even cheaper to me
Colton Tallman Oh that’s great. I’m looking forward to go to school to become an A&P after my senior year of high school. Then I’ll be looking forward to getting a private license >:D
In my Navy Flying Club, it cost $18 per hour for a 150. That was in 1979
Anything that flies, floats, or fornicates is cheaper to rent. That being said, there is something about knowing that your bird is going to be sitting on the ramp, ready to go when you want. You know who flew it last, how well it has been maintained, and where the last load of fuel came from. You don't have to deal with the rental people. That alone is a plus.
"...flies, floats, or fornicates..." I'M STEALING THAT!!!! LMAO!!!
beaconrider depends on how much you fly, there’s bound to be a crossover point if you fly relatively often. The owner can’t really rent a plane for less than their ownership costs.
everything you said also applies to the fornicates part of the equation as well haha
A 172 here in anchorage is 165-189 an hour dual 145-160 solo. typically you can fly a 172 at 8 GPH plus about 50$ an hour in hourly incidental saving. So I can own and fly for 80-90$ an hour solo and rent the instructor for 30-40 an hour so I’m saving roughly 50-70$ an hour. So basically for each 1-1.3 hours of renting I can fly my own plane for 2 hours. So for what I spend on a normal two hour rental ($304ish @ 152hr mean average) I would get 1.4-1.6 hours “free” that’s $134 for the average flight in savings multiply that by flying once a week means you save $6,968 a year. If you could somehow set aside that 7k each year you’d be able to overhaul/replace the engine every 3-4 years if you wanted. Or buy that fancy glass panel you want, or fly another 80 hours a year.
@@ravenmirabeau951 I second that!
Thank you for the info! I'm a student pilot seriously considering buying a plane to train and build some hours in. Very helpful!
Ummm. Love your vids, they helped me pass ground test, thanks. I used to say umm a lot, I replaced it with just a space of silence.
When I was getting my private pilot license, I purchased an extra insurance policy, because the flight school had a $2500.00 deductible, that the student was responsible for. The insurance for me was only $25.00 a month with a $50.00 deductible, and also included a $100,000.00 insurance on my life. Renting a Cessna 150 was Very affordable, and NO monthly costs.
You have some Great info! Thanks so much.
Lloyd Morrison I'm planning on moving to Tampa Florida and I'm interested in considering obtaining my pilot license and renting a plane. Would that be better than flying with a commercial airline? I never considered this route before but I think flying myself is a new adventure.
This is the first time I've seen this channel. I'm finally seeing answers to practical question that nobody ever seemed to talk about regarding cost. I thought is was much higher. Thanks !
Syndicate is the cheapest way ..my syndicate has 14 members so fixed costs are reasonable.
I have found availability is not an issue if you book well ahead for a long flight of a week or so.
I'd love to own a plane but the club I belong to only costs 36/hr wet for the C150 and 79 wet for the C182. owning is not happening at those rates
Nice! What is your monthly dues/buy in?
FLY8MA.com Flight Training $800 buy in $80/month
agree - you'll never own that cheap (safely)
Dan Kriston 36 hr wet...are you serious...i wish it was that low at my fbo...its 95$wet plus cfi
Unless you fly a monstrous amount, it's always more economical to rent or be a member of a club, because the fixed costs get spread around. However, that depends on availability of clubs/rentals and how far you have to go and so on.
All that having been said, your rentals are incredibly cheap. That isn't that much above just the fuel cost. That must be somewhere that fuel is very cheap, and hangars too.
A 172 here in anchorage is 165-189 an hour dual 145-160 solo. typically you can fly a 172 at 8 GPH plus about 50$ an hour in hourly incidental saving. So I can own and fly for 80-90$ an hour solo and rent the instructor for 30-40 an hour so I’m saving roughly 50-70$ an hour. So basically for each 1-1.3 hours of renting I can fly my own plane for 2 hours. So for what I spend on a normal two hour rental ($304ish @ 152hr mean average) I would get 1.4-1.6 hours “free” that’s $134 for the average flight in savings multiply that by flying once a week means you save $6,968 a year. If you could somehow set aside that 7k each year you’d be able to overhaul/replace the engine every 3-4 years if you wanted. Or buy that fancy glass panel you want, or fly another 80 hours a year.
Hi. I'm brand new to your channel. I'm kind of an old guy (68 years old) to get started in aviation. Twenty-two years ago I had a stroke that took my right arm, leg, and other parts. I was going to the gym until Covid19 changed how we can't be together like before. The reason I spoke of going to the gym is that I'm beginning to get a little right leg movement again. Legs and arms are kind of important when you want to fly an aircraft. So no "certified" aircraft are easy to fly with just your left hand, so I started looking at "experimentals." But I noticed some experimentals look as if I could reach all the controls. I'm 6'5" and have 37" arms.
I like to put stuff down on a spreadsheet so I REALLY know how much something costs. Another thing you might consider is for the person flying could choose to fly an "Experimental" plane. You might say it can cut your" life." That's true but most "experimentals" are well made, you can do your own maintenance and you have the freedom to choose a little peppier engine & prop.
Course you can't put an 800 hp engine into an airframe only meant only to carry a person at 110 knots with an old 110 hp engine. The plane will start falling apart very soon after your old 150 hp engine gets replaced by an 800 hp engine. But you can do some homework and find an "experimental" plane manufacturer that has a good reputation. So, you can cut your annual cost flying a different kind of plane. An "experimental."
I have owned a few airplanes over 35 years. My first was a 150L. I'd suggest changes to your spreadsheet. For one thing, the O-200 in the 150 has no oil filter, so the maintenance manual calls for oil changes at 25 hours, not 50. The fuel flow estimate is a little high at 5.5 gph - I averaged under 5 gph for the 600 hours we had a 150. You omitted a couple cost items. One is the static and transponder cert every 24 months. These days, anyone who flies to get places will also pay for some kind of chart and database subscription. On the 150 there are a few repetitive maintenance issues. One is the starter drive, another is stuck exhaust valves (unless running mo-gas), and I budget for spark plug and vacuum pump replacement. Those items may add a couple bucks an hour to operating costs. Your basic approach using a spreadsheet is spot on. I have one very similar to yours, but with larger numbers, for my R182.
Some have a spin on oil filter adapter, or it can be added.
Such a good channel...my heart is heavy for the lady pilot that stalled and crashed...she sounded like a lovely woman.
I believe it's probably true that 85+% of flying is one person in the plane. That makes a Cessna 150 the cheapest way to go for recreational flying. Then you rent a 172 when you have a companion and split the cost, or a 182 if there are three.
Yup, they're actually starting to push some new single seat LSAs for that very fact
FLY8MA.com Flight Training How about C172
5 hour student pilot and got a quote about 850 bucks a year for a 150. pretty neat
I think you need to do another cost ownership video, (after covid prices.) Everything is probably double those costs now.
Bought a C-150 4 months ago and my costs are pretty much in line with yours except the maintenance costs can go down quite a bit if you do the work yourself. Insurance for me as a zero time student was $640/year for $15k hull. Taking my checkride in 3 weeks then I will pass the plane to the next guy.
93mclaren nice! How did your check ride go? Looking to go on this same route soon
I paid $39/hr wet solo in a rental C152II back in '98 when I was training back in the day when aviation was affordable.... I have a light trike and seeking training for it before I maiden .... training for those things is a whopping $115 - $175/hr dual instruction. Thanks for the ownership costs break down on a plane I may be interested in owning privately....
This is a fantastic video. Especially for myself, someone who has 12 hours spread out over 14 years oh, haha. I can't wait to own my own plane it's an experience I would love to enjoy with my son
Keep with it, it will be worth it!!
In a few years when the mortgage and car are paid off, and credit card balances are down lower (I live in a small rural Southern town that has nothing but an, ugh, Walmart, so most anything I need or want I have to get online), I might be able to get a surplus D7 Battle Cruiser or ancient Cessna 172. A limiting consideration is the nearest CFI is almost sixty statute miles away.
Multiple owners could be a problem. I have done this with 2 other friends a few years ago, all I will say it's a good way to lose friends for the pettiest of reasons. Won't do that again.
Haha, ya it certainly can be challenging when you have different ideas....best to have really well ironed out "rules" or "bylaws" before going in with partners.
a rock solid partnership agreement helps this go smoother. there is an old saying; "A little paperwork between friends makes for better friends" (or something like that)
Anything important... or anything that involves money... should always be put into writing.
Thank you for this video. I am about to enter flight school with a boyhood dream of becoming a commercial pilot. My wife's dad owns 2 planes and she said we should just take his. I thought about selling my sports car out right so I can buy a good condition used plane. I figure I will miss the sports car but in the long run in commercial land, I can always buy another...and some!!! :)
My dream house is to have a medium house with a big plot of land to put a soft strip and a mini hangar. I'd want an Extra 300, and a Cubcrafter, and if I truly become rich- some form of four seater to island hop across the Atlantic.
Doing a biochem major to get there tho lol
That sounds awesome!
Get a quad copter instead, for about $800 for everything total (including workdesk tools) you can have something that will fit in a backpack, that you can drive to anywhere scenic, and be up in the air in minutes. Fly around, look around for 3-20 minutes, land, go on to the next scenic spot. No risk to your neck, no pilots license or training to get, fly fast and low or longrange and high. It's cheaper than even paramotors, or ultralights, or hang gliding, or gliding. fpv.air-war.org
Good Vid John...for my first plane, I bought one with two buddies and we had a bank account that we deposited to each time we flew...worked great. One thing you many want to include are AD's (Airworthiness Directives.) Usually there are a few AD's so maybe factor in another 3-500 a year...note that AD and Annual expenses differ for retractable gear aircraft and certainly if you are flying a twin.
The only discrepancy I see here is that most people are not going to own their own hangar plus yes you did add the price for fuel but not for a full tank of AV gas which adds substantially.
I can only dream of $55/month for a tie down. The monthly rate for a standard tie down at the local airport, San Carlos Airport (KSQL) here in the San Francisco Bay Area is $139/mo. But you are right that most places seem to hover around $55/mo including most other parts of California.
+jaycee31415 ooo...That is rough. Would hate to have to buy fuel over there too. Would probably be trying to burn mogas
I remember San Carlos airport well because I grew up in South San Francisco. I would say San Carlos or any airport in and around silicon valley is going to be expensive. I would venture to say these airports have limited space as well because there are many people there making big bucks in the electronics industry.
Pride of ownership is the number one reason for me. Got tired of beat up rentals
2 years ago, these numbers would’ve had me drooling. Since then, I’ve bought and sold a good old 1973 Cessna 150L. I can tell you life doesn’t play out quite as cleanly as a spread sheet of averages. Also, as a career-minded guy, while I DID still save money by buying a C150 (compared to renting), what I DIDN’T save was time. Having money tied up in the plane kept me from working on my ratings, and put me behind about 18 months. This video isn’t “un-true”; it just depends on what you want the airplane for.
Interested in cost per hour analysis of Grumman AA5B Tiger
in Australia i pay $300 hour for a 172
Here on the GoldCoast I pay 380 for 152 and for 172 440bucks pretty fucking expencive.
VERY realistic numbers. WELL DONE !!
I have owned a 1964 C172 for many years, and I can beat these numbers consistently, every year.
Mogas STC = I beat your fuel costs
Same mechanic for many years, so we have mutual trust, and he has taught me to do many of the basic maintenance myself. (more savings)
Tie-downs at my airport run 55 bucks per month. (hangar is over 400 per month, so, that's not an option)
Obviously, adding toys and goodies (like upgrading the avionics, or, adding a new paint job) blows the budget BIG time... but if you don't have the $$, you simply choose not to do it. (she still fly's lovely even when the paint is ugly:)
Sold! Rates here are $150/hour so definitely more economical to own.
Keeping eye out for a clean 150.
Hope it works out for ya!
Nice and informative vid. One critisim for us newbies....Please explain the acronyms you use so we don't have to stop the vid and google what it is you are talking about. Specifically you throw around three acronyms: hobbs, fbo and A&P tech. Would take only an extra minute to explain the acronyms that you seem to think everyone already knows.
Okay, I have owned and operated 12 aircraft. There are a lot of factors to consider. How much do you fly? My rule of thumb was 100 hours a year to be cost effective. If you can find a good well maintained 150/152 ( I prefer the 152) you'll be lucky. Most have spent their lives in flight training schools and lead a hard life. I have owned Mooney's, Cessna 150's and 152's, I have owned 182's and my last aircraft was a Turbo 206. My first airplane wasTomahawk. Which was cheap. The most important thing one can do is a pre-purchase inspection. That'' save you a lot of headaches. Second, consider how much you'll fly and what avionics you want on your little bird. Avionics are not cheap, Annual inspection can be costly as well. Fuel and insurance can vary with your time and experience. If you use the plane for training expect to pay more for insurance. Been flying these birds for over 30 years and was a former DPE and flight school owner.
Including monthly flying club dues, I pay 45.60 per hour for a C150 at 100 hrs per year. Beats owning and renting and I'm insured through the club (Hull & Liability) included in that rate.
I paid $35 an hour for a Cessna 152 getting my license. 1985 ...
What a wonderful time it was.
I paid around $60 @, hour for my PPL in 1991
I own a Lancair 360. Cost per hour is incredible (225mph @ 8 gph); but the fixed costs kill me. I wish I would have been able to find a partner early on to split it with.
You can get a kitfox or a cub and get waaay better fuel consumption with a much higher cruise speed and not even have to have a private pilot licence and have a better aircraft then the Cessna 150
For utility and actually being able to do meaningful cross countries, I would recommend the AA5A Grumman Cheetah. 125kts 7.4gph with 4 people and a good distance. The 180hp Grumman Tiger will get you there slightly faster but at a much higher burn rate. Love mine!
Before you get together with with other guys I suggest you make sure you have similar values/outlooks. There is nothing worst than joining a syndicate only to find that one of your fellow pilots is happy leaving his old coffee strap in with the maps! Perhaps they think a heavy landing is just a bit of fun and I am sure there are still the odd pilot that actual believes that pre-flight checks just involve kicking the tires; joining a syndicate may sound great but it may cost you more than you think if you don't join the right one
My AA1 costs based on 75 hrs a year: Insurance and parking $37 Fuel $45 and maintenance $60 an hour (Cdn funds). The last couple of annuals have been costly!
I'm buying a 150 because I'm tired of hoping an airplane is available then driving an hour to get to it. I just want to go to my local airport and actually spend my time flying. That and the ability to take it out for a weekend without scheduling months in advance and hoping the weather is good the entire time
i don't fly, but I've always had an interest in. Problem being I could never afford one! But, I found your monetary breakdown very interesting because I always wanted to know what the real cost of owning an airplane would be, now I know. Thanks a lot for the information.
Yes, exactly what that John said.
a 100k plane cost roughly 1700 a month to own and house in a hangar and fly. You can "own" one for a little cheap and not fly but what would be the point? You can also fly the crap out of one for as much as 2300 a month. The cheapest part of owning a plane in the cost of the plane itself...
GREAT VIDEO! APPRECIATE THE CONVERSATION PERTINENT TO THIS. LOOK FOR US IN ONLINE GROUND SCHOOL SOON!
tie downs at my local airport are $180+ per month (no it is not a commercial airport)
I would like to see a comparison between owning a certfied vs an experimental.
Great break down thanks for posting! Buying a Cessna 150 currently.
Nice!!
I plan to buy one of your courses in 2019 as I want to learn to fly.
Found your video informative. Makes flying sound more reasonable for the average person. Another plus would be the ability to fly when you want verses when a plane is available to rent.
Very interesting break down, a great starting point for a lot of thought. I’d like to see one possibly that factors in taking a note on an airplane, say alone for $30,000, that would certainly change the dynamics quite a bit
Thank you for taking the time to explain airplane ownership cost vs. renting. The county where I live levies yearly personal property taxes and airplanes are taxed at a rate of $4.68 per $100 of assessed value (same rate as automobiles), which will add to ownership cost.
I'm glad you got to see another side then! Best of luck with any ownership journey
Great vid! If it's not too much work, I'd like to see something like this for some nicer planes, such as a Bonanza or an SR20/22
We'll get something put together here soon!
I can tell you from experience the sr20 is much (much) higher, but its also a lot more useful airplane. If you just want to fly yourself around for fun, the 150 is hard to beat for costs... but I can't imagine trying to use it to travel anywhere.
After hanging around a boat owner in the 1980s, I believe my most important parameter is... Living where you keep it. In this case I would want to own a house in one of those rarer residential airparks. These being houses with hangars and a shared airstrip. No cause to fuss about an object miles away and you certainly cannot be without the needed tools when working on it. Of course, then the downside is the absence of convenient fueling and on and on. And no, a tie down would not be enough for me anyway. My problem? I do not have the money!!!
Couldn't you do part time work, such as pipeline inspection, and then write off all your expenses?
thank you so much for posting this. I was scared to get my PPL and A & P due to seeing news stories about it being dangerous but now im looking into getting my own plane and getting my PPL/A&P. plus seeing that you can rent out your plane is pretty cool.
Good summary of the costs of owning an airplane. I got my private in 1971 for a little over $800. I always rented 150's 172's and Piper Cherokee's etc. When the rental per hour got to $50 I didn't fly much any more. My son bought a Grumman AA1A in 2000 for $20,000 and we put a lot more into it with avionics etc. I flew it a lot, over 100 hours a year some years. He sold it in 2012, He flies a 7.5 million dollar King Air 350i now (not his, he flies for a charter company) and I didn't fly at all from 2008 until last Feb when I finally bought my first airplane a 1946 J3 Cub for $32,000. I love it and fly almost every day when the weather is good , but only in the daytime and no Class B or C airspace. No electrical system and no transponder. I do have a battery powered radio and intercom. It is very cheap to fly and my first annual a month ago only cost me $250. I keep it hangared since it is a fabric covered plane and the sun damage would cost me more than hangar rent. The hangar is my largest expense. It is the only way I can afford to fly and it is a blast to fly it. Thanks to my wife's lump sum retirement I was able to pay cash for the plane, I have never been able to afford one up until now.
Glad to hear you bought a cub! Awesome airplanes, wish I still had my champ!
hey Jim i would love to talk with you some time about your cub, i just got current again and for some reason the cub hasn't been on my radar until recently email me at fitritefab@Gmail.com
I took some PPL flight training in a J-3 Cub. N6027H in Chino CA. We had it up over 10,000 feet at one time, two people. Another time did about 20 turn spin from 9-10,000 feet and no problem coming out of it. One of the most FUN airplanes I ever flew. Enjoy it !
Jim New You are my hero! Using your wife’s retirement money to buy an airplane! Greatest thing I’ve ever heard! I want to fly so damn badly but I’m getting so much crap from my wife about how much it costs, I need you in my life I think, lol
Jim New if I may ask, what do you pay for hangar rent?
Excellent video - covers all the basics. I have owned 6 aircraft - often 2 at a time - good analysis. And sometimes it's just "worth it" anyway
I have to say, thank you for making this video! I heard Grant Thompson make a passing reference about buying an airplane to log hours for his license (and how that wound up costing less than renting) and I've been digging into the cost of a plane, maintenance, etc as a response and found this video very informative!
Thanks! Glad it helps! Certainly consider buying or starting a club!
I owned a 172n and the cost for tie downs and gas are way higher today with gas at almost $6/gal and takedowns of $120/mo.
You really can't do anything with a 150 except fly yourself. If yoy habe a family or want to fly with friends you need a 172. FBOs around here in NY are getting about $120/hour - wet
I am a student sport pilot getting ready for checkride. I am buying a new plane. The aero legion or l600 is 150000. It will come with auto pilot, full dynon glass panel, leather heated seats, parachute for the plane and rotax 914 turbo engine. A 30 year old 150 is nothing I want to fly across country in.
I can do all my own maintenance work? Awesome! I’m a decent mechanic already so that will definitely help the wallet! Thanks for the great info.
Glad it helped ya!
You said you would put a couple of other spreadsheets comparing costs of different airplanes including a Mooney. I checked out your website (Nice job!) but only found the 150 spreadsheet. I'm considering purchasing a Mooney m20j and having a spreadsheet to look at for that would be fantastic. Great job on your videos too!
The more you fly the more your per hour flight cost goes down.
I was renting a C172N for $125 per hour. Flying 200hrs a year in my own C172N puts me at about $80 per hour. Sure everything falls on me to repair and/or get repaired but I look at the repairs as part of hobby and showing love to my plane.
You're talking my language. I like the excel sheet
Im seeing prices that start over $4000 for an annual now, and thats before they fix anything
This has helped shed some light.What about fractional ownership vs renting?Our fbo is $150 wet for an hour plus renters insurance.We have both tie down and hangers.But the hangers are more so reserved for the expensive planes.
A lot depends on where you live. Here on the CO front range a C150 would be impractical due to winds and our 6500ft alt here in COS. I've sliced and diced the math and it's a bridge too far. You basically have to have a hanger here due to hail and the harsh elements, the only tie downs I see are transient aircraft. Even if I was given a FREE airplane the fuel, oil, ins, annual, mnx, small reserve for upgrades/overhaul and it's pushing $15,000 annually based on 100 flying hrs. And that's not factoring in the plane itself! You can rent a GPS IFR equipped C172SP or even a Hawk XP for about $150/hr. It comes down to wanting the flexibility and prestige ownership gives you. Here, you need deep pockets. I'm not convinced that older light aircraft are much of an equity investment but not sure on that.
Cost/benefit analysis like this should usually include an "opportunity cost" calculation as well. In this case, foregoing investment of $18K at ~7% for 10 years costs $36173 this figure should also be included in the fixed costs of the aircraft.
Wow, didn't realize that the major overhaul at 2000 hours at $8 per hour estimate would be $16000, the same cost at the original purchase price! Of course, at 100 hours per year that's 20 years between overhauls.
Also some parts that are not airworthy any more still have value as some times aircraft engines are adapted on to other things such as air boats where hours does not mean as much so selling them drops the cost as well
i sure am glad i am an A&P and my best friend is an I&A so it only cost me a buck two ninety eight to own a 150 and a Cherokee 140 dam i am lucky
You are blessed.
Dennis Charles m o
I think this is all ok on paper but just to be aware that reality can sometimes be a lot different. If you are expecting a group of friends to fly a certain number of hours a year, to keep costs at a more manageable level, you can normally pretty much half what they say they will fly due to various reasons. In my experience people joining a group will over estimate the number of hours they say they will fly by quite a margin. A group that I had been involved in, most people said they would fly between 30 and 40 hours per year, including myself, but the reality was more like 15-20 hours. With a group of 16 people, as your spreadsheet demonstrates, this can be a large cost increase/hour. I would also always try and factor in a contingency fund just in case you suddenly get a large unexpected maintenance bill. Anyway may you be blessed with great flying weather.
Appreciate the video but why use a 150 as a baseline comparison ? A 172 is a more reasonable plane for someone's first purchase .
Just doing one airplane per video, I've owned 14 different airplanes, so I'm just going to be using data from ones I've actually owned and maintained rather than estimates. I'll have some up for a cherokee, aeronca, 172, etc. Just the more common ones.
define reasonable
Really, the only thing your costs would change are the Fuel burn, and the Money Invested. I think the other costs are nearly same.
I trained in a C150. Nothing unreasonable about that. Cheap way to fly. As they say, "a great time machine."
A 172 is also a great investment! They hold their value, in fact appreciate in value.
10 GPH on climb for a 172 Cessna and cruise average, unless you are riding the downwind and the jet stream. I beg to differ the differentiation from said 150 to 172. It has been said that the majority of fuel burn and climb time on a 150 by Rod Machado, was the majority of his accumulation of PIC time! Vx or Vy! Confim please!
This is a very informational video, thank you very much for such a practical effort!
Do you have cost sheet for 172 182? This was very helpful. Thank you for your time.
cost to purchase is higher in both of those. the 172 burns about 7.5 GPH. a 182 burns about 12-13 GPH. You should be able to make your own spreadsheets... otherwise, perhaps you are not ready to be a pilot...
@@MrZrryan2 oh man…. I can’t use spreadsheet…. I can’t be a pilot?
Double everything for canada
no, I am in southern Ontario, and these are realistic numbers. In fact, owned an old C172 for many years, and I beat the crap out of these numbers EVERY year, without fail.
ummmmm, yep!
Probably quaddruple everything for Europe.
Come on guys u don't mind how much it costs at Brazil....
@@josevinicius.z9977 everyone knows brazil is a shithole
Extremely helpful! Much better than I expected (my guess was WAY high)!! hmmmm. 🥳
Rental prices for the Skyhawk at the airports I rent out of are hard to beat. $95 an hour, and that is with the tax INCLUDED. Granted they still have the antique panel.
I want to build a kitfox experimental I can fold the wings back keep it in a enclosed trailer on the side of my house. Since it's experimental I can do my own work on it.
I did not know Michael Scott knew so much about aircraft ownership
OMG Now I can't stop hearing it lol
Will Harris I joke, but I love this channel! He covers some great information for student pilots. I always hear Michel Scott though haha