Hey guys! I wanted to let you know I just launched an "Insiders" Newsletter where once a week I'm sharing an important lesson I've learned in aviation, links to my latest content so you don't miss out, and links to any other interesting or helpful content I've found. I'm also working on a HUGE project I can't announce yet but I'm going to be sharing more behind the scenes info with Insiders first - Subscribe (it's free) at: airplaneacademy.com/insiders
I’m retired so I’m on a fixed income. The way I did it was to sell some land that I had and used that money towards buying a hangar and a C-182 outright otherwise I couldn’t afford to have an airplane. My yearly insurance is $832.00 and my yearly payment to the county for the land lease of where my hangar sits is $300.00. If everything goes well with my owner assist annual it’s $500.00, for a total price of $1632.00/year fixed cost if I don’t fly the airplane. Cost of fuel at the airport is $3.75/gallon.
smart way to go, though I think I would have a very hard time selling any land off, but if it fulfills a dream, and it’s land you weren’t using and hopefully you didn’t sell off all of your land, because that would also be a little sad, being a country boy, from the Ozarks anytime someone has to sell land for any reason always makes me a little sad, well unless I’m the one buying it, lol!
I know 15k a year is expensive for most including myself but it really is a matter of priorities. One of my friends decided to get a part time job that allowed him to earn an extra 12k a year and he loved knowing that hustling for that extra work allowed him to guilt free fly whenever he wanted.
I think 15k a year is a value. I personally think if you make less then 175k you should should be more focused on investing and not flying but evert is different. I think a monthly budget of about 2500 is a great starting place for pilots. I under not everyone can just write a check for repairs and anything the plane needs. And that is why I don’t think people should finance a small plan. If you want a larger jet then sure finance it but a small single engine place I think it’s better to pay cash and then have a budget if 2500 a month and you will enjoy flying But I do understood not everyone can do that.
"Man, how I'd love to go flying but I'm so tired from that second job and the overtime from my primary job, and it's raining now and I'm not IFR, and I have all this stuff that needs taking care of around the house, and my brother's birthday party across town is Sunday afternoon, and...."
Good info. Based on my 20 years of ownership experience, this is a very accurate estimate of ownership costs. It will be lower for Cessna 150's and piper 140s and higher for Cessna 175 and Grumman tiger. My yearly cost for about 70 hours of flying averages $730/mo. This does not include the cost of the plane. I started in a 2 person partnership. 2 or 3 partners are a good number to make airplane ownership more affordable. Trust me, you are never going to fly as much as you think and the worst thing for a plane is for It to sit on the ramp. Just make sure you pick your partners carefully.
I recently bought a 1974 Beechcraft Musketeer Sport. It's an interesting plane, in that the 150hp engine the Sport came with was replaced by the factory with a 180hp Lycoming O-360. It's also had some additional modifications made to it such that it's effectively a Sundowner. The only practical difference is that it only has two windows on each side instead of three. I love it. I'm not a small guy, so the roominess is appreciated. It's true that it's not the fastest plane, but I needed something to build time in, but also wanted something with some room to grow. This plane fills those needs nicely.
On the 150 vs 152, what I've seen from flying them is the reverse of what was mentioned on flaps. The 150's I fly go up to 40 degrees, while the 152 is limited to 30 degrees
Great info! My personal experience - I own a 182RG. Hangar space in Chicagoland is WAY more expensive than you mentioned, but not quite as high as you are paying. My annual cost is around $1,800, insurance also around $1,800. Does it make financial sense? Not a chance. But that's why I go to work every day. Our kids are grown, and I finally have the time and money to do this right. I want to fly that plane until I'm sick and tired of it, hopefully a very long time. Thanks for making the video, I enjoy all your videos.
Hey Charlie, thank you for yet another excellent video. You have a way of putting the viewer at ease with no bragging or ego trip. I always come away with more knowledge and it's usually very helpful tips for the entry or like myself, pre entry level aviator.
Great video but if possible I would recommend avoiding financing. I was able to cut a lot of costs and saved enough to buy my Maule. I just kept my old diesel Jetta that was paid for and my truck same. But what is funny is that the guys I know that say flying is too expensive are driving big diesel trucks and expénsive car.
As a kid growing up in SW KS, I heard stories of Clyde Cessna in his Jenny flying out to Bucklin, KS (my home town) and giving rides. Yep he was a barnstormer! My first ride in an airplane was a 172. I've loved flying ever since. Keep up the great work.
I’m pretty sure the 152 max flaps is 30 degrees while the 150 is 40 degrees. They reduced max flaps to reduced risk for training pilots (at least in theory).
I fly a 150H in a club and can confirm 40 degrees max flap extension. I never go past 30 as it's not necessary and less flaps to take out if I have to go around.
So maybe is possible! Thanks for breaking it down for me. Look forward to practical vids such as this and the 7 planes. Keep em coming and try out PK sometime!!
Powered paragliders are a wonderful way to Fly, IMO! I can't see gliding without a motor. Just my appreciation for flying and opinion. Happy Gliding and Clear Skies!
Are they not also considered the most dangerous planes? I do not know if the information I heard was true but something along of the lines of a good portion of the aviation accidents happen in powered paragliders? If not, they do seem great, but they also can be flown without a license which could lead to cause behind all the accidents, lack of overall aviation knowledge?
Thank you for putting your thoughts out there and sharing what you have discovered. Cost vary drastically from geographic, airplane, type of flying, availability, etc. I'm just finishing up my PPL and I want to buy a plane to complete my ratings and build time. I found that if I find 2 other like minded pilots, it becomes extremely affordable. The cost savings on rental vs buying over ~250 hours is huge! Plus the added bonus of not fighting all the other students for flight time is big time. Flying is a hobby or investment in education that is not cheap, but not anymore expensive than other hobbies. I know people that spend more than $1,000 a month on golf, boating, etc.
I never considered the possibility of splitting the costs with a trusted friend. Great idea. Sharing with 1 or 2 people would still beat the heck out of renting
Hey Shawn, would you mind sharing some more info with me please. I am a student pilot, getting my ppl in a month and a half or so, working towards my commercial rating
Not any more thanks to Covid. Before Covid, you could buy a great time building for around $50K or less. Those same aircraft today are $100-$150K or more in the same condition. The only thing you can practically get under $50k now is 60+-year-old aircraft in original condition at or near TBO that need a lot of exterior, interior, and avionics updates. Buying a Cessna is like buying an Apple phone, it does the same thing as every other 2-4 seater aircraft but at $15k - $20k extra on the cost, because you're paying for the Cessna name. It's going to take a year or two, maybe even more to before we see prices begin to fall back to where they should be as everyone and their brother is using Covid as a way to profit on their merchandise. Supply and demand is the major killer right now. There isn't a lot on the market so the prices are much higher. All in all, this is good info when the prices are right but I would highly suggest not to buy a plane right now. It's a great time to sell but definitely not a good time to buy. Just wait!
Most of these airplanes can legally be flown on autofuel. At $2/gallon x 8 gallons/hr=$16. If you use 100LL you are spending an extra $24/hour. You can do your own oil changes and save >$100/hour. You can help out on the annual inspections and save several hundred $. There are many repairs one can legally do and one can buy real airplane parts from aircraft salvage dealers. And, if you have any friends, you can go halfsies with him/her/it.
Discovered your channel just yesterday. I really like it since I'm very interested in aviation and aiming to get a LAPL(A) soon! I've always dreamed of an own airplane. Greetings from Germany!
very informative. You might consider looking at some LSAs given the impending changes that MOSAIC is likely to implement. I'm new to this stuff, but I saw a video where they said 20 years ago most LSAs were motorized kites. Today, with the improvements in lightweight materials, you can buy entire planes that are as roomy as a C150 with similar performance characteristics. In fact, as proposed, the new MOSAIC metrics would include C150/152s and possibly 170/172s. But for those looking for power and speed, some of these newest LSAs will be able to double their power and speed while not even doubling their weight, all of which will be possible under MOSAIC, and the cost increases will not need to double.
Whatever airplane you buy, the most important part is a good pre-buy inspection by a mechanic familiar with all the expensive gotchas for that aircraft. A bargain airplane more often than not becomes a maintenance money pit soon after buying it. Also in my experience, the most difficult aspect of buying a first plane was finding a place to hangar it. If you plan to just tie it outside then it's not that bad, but indoors is preferable, especially with fabric covered airplanes or severe storm prone areas. Most airports seem to have a waiting list a mile long of people needing hangar space. I hangared in a town over an hour away for six months until luckily a space at a nearby private airport opened up. Of the aircraft you listed, I bought a Tri-Pacer and love it.
Thats a really useful ball park guide that will assist many people as a starting point ,there are many variables to this and avenues to take,just make sure that aircraft maintenance is properly figured in whatever vintage of aircraft you fly and however you intend to tackle airworthiness.
@@AirplaneAcademy i am looking to buy a plane, which i have a handle on but don’t know if the hanger needs to come first or the plane. I live near Addison so am thinking thats where i should park it but also hear probably not going to have any luck with hangers there. Any advice?
Whether 100% accurate or not (which you definitely sound like you have done your research) thank you for that breakdown. I have been watching videos of PPC and PPG for over a year and just bought my first powered parachute trike. I won’t pick it up till Spring and this winter am getting my pilots license. I do t need my license to fly my PPC but I have always wanted one and at 45 decided I’m ready and it’s time. I had no idea what my daily or yearly expenses would look like so thank you very much for the breakdown. I’m also a new subscriber (yesterday) and appreciate your content and how well you explain things. I’m in Ohio but would love to meet up someday. I believe in inspiring others as you talk and hope to pay it forward someday. Thank you.
Thanks for the comment! And I'm working on putting some meet ups together, maybe we'll make it to Ohio at some point! Would love to do some flying in and around that area. Your parachute trike sounds like a freakin blast.
For what it’s worth I owned a AA1B for almost four years. Sold her two months ago. Was a dream to fly and fairly economical burning 5.5 GPH. Downside was payload and range but my mission was to do primarily local 1-2 hour flights so never had a problem. If your mission is to burn holes in the sky chasing clouds then this may be a plane to consider!
I've only watched 2 of your videos and I'm already hooked! Great content here. Although I'm planning on buying a plane for post-Covid business travel (and thus not really in the Cessna-level category), I am considering buying a second plane for personal use like a Cessna or Beechcraft. So this is all relevant info and all great information to consider. Thanks again for sharing this.
Thanks for your information on flying, I started looking into finding out the cost of learning how to fly a aircraft a few days ago. I've always wanted to but I'm not getting any younger.
I purchased a C150k for $14,000 cash nine years ago. 9,000 hr airframe, 1200 hr smoh, Annual averages $1500 including some replaced parts like tires etc. liability insurance only is $208/yr, mogas $3.80/ gal at 4.8 gal/ hr, tiedown $40/ mo. The plane now has 1800 hrs with good engine and avionics health but exterior paint has degraded to the point of needing new paint in a few years. I couldn’t be happier with affordability and reliability given from this small Cessna. I hope this may inspire you to keep it simple and pay cash and/ or in part, personal loan.
I like the estimates. You do a great job of explaining how you arrive at them. The issue I have is that it works out to an average of $1,200/month. For a lot of people. $1,200/month for a 'fun' item IS by definition prohibitively expensive. The average median income in the United States is $33,706. A person falling into this range would be spending 43% of their income to own an airplane. Even if they make twice the median income you are still talking about roughly 20% of their income. Based on what I can afford to spend, I would need the aircraft to have a daily cost of about $5 to $10 per day in order for it to be even close to affordable. In order to get it past my wife, I'd have to get it down to closer to $100/month. I'm open to suggestions, but I've run the numbers the best I can and I can't find a way I can fly anything other than a Flight Sim or perhaps a PPG and our local weather isn't conducive to PPG's very often.
Thanks for the comment. Sorry if it came off this way, but I wasn't trying to make the argument as to whether or not $1,200 was a lot or a little, because you're right it's all relative. I was trying to highlight a few traditionally "less expensive" aircraft (in relation to the spectrum of aviation) to own and operate and the breakdown of approximate costs based on my own experience. Certainly not trying to isolate anyone by saying they should or shouldn't be able to afford it. That being said, there's lots of fun to still be had in flight sim or taking an occasional exposure flight with a flight school. Consider looking into local EAA chapters, you might be able to make some pilot friends and go along with them from time to time to still get in the air. Anything to be around aviation!
Well you made most of your problem known when you say you have to "get it past your wife" my word dude. Who wears the pants in your household? Yeah! Exactly! And 34k a year is like what I made 20 years ago out of high-school at 10 or 11 buck an hr!! Shit! Get a better job! Aint no reason you can't be making 60 to 100k a year! Hell yes you can! This country is full of opportunities and people with excuses. It's the best time to prosper when everyone is moping around crying about how bad things are then you know it's a good time to jump on opportunities. Endless job opportunities out there and people begging for help! Name your own pay rate basically! Oh and I saw a nice 150 on barnstormers.com the other day with a few hrs on a new rebuild for 30k I believe! Don't get any better than that! Times are good when you shut off the news, stop focusing on the negative, take the pants 👖 away from your wife and make shit happen! Your wife will want to rip your 👖 off if you do so it's a win win! 🏆 😁
@@lovetofly32 It's $1200/month for something you use maybe 50 hours a year. Something that costs $1200/month better appreciate in value or make me $1600/mo.
two ownership concepts/questions that would also be helpful to hear your perspective: - partial ownership: pros/cons of formally partnering (LLC) with one or two other partners to share cost and flight time. - lease-back: cost-benefit of leasing the airplane to a flight school/FBO and letting them manage/track/schedule the maintenance and rentals. Does that generate enough revenue to offset the increased usage and maintenance, and to reduce your cost of ownership? thx!
AV Web had a good article on it here I'd suggest. There are pros and cons to doing partial ownership or leaseback and it really just depends on your unique situation. Personally I wouldn't do a leaseback and I'd only do partial ownership for the right situation where either it was a niche plane I wasn't going to use a lot and wanted a co-owner or I was really tight with the other owner and we were really aligned on the money side (i.e. not skimping on maintenance ever), how we'd split up use the airplane, what it looks like if someone wants out, etc (and I'd put it all in writing so there's no room for question)... all in all I would prefer owning it outright whenever possible just to avoid those issues. But it can be done successfully. www.avweb.com/ownership/is-a-leaseback-good-for-you/
Thank you so much for this video. You are way too kind. This is awesome information. I love your content. Keep up the great work. You are a very knowledgeable pilot with a kind heart. God bless you and your family.
Great analysis, but what about repairs? Things inevitably break and the price of simple things can be outrageous. In 2002 I was flying a C172 when tower told me my mode c wasn’t working. I landed and taxied over to the radio shop where the mode c unit had to be replaced. $1000. I’m glad I wasn’t the owner of that plane. Okay, that adds $2.74 / day, but it’s just an example of how blind expenses may pop up.
Congratulations and that sounds like a great set up! And yes Cedar Mills on Texoma is a must. Worth the short walk over to Pelican's Landing for a meal also (they have an odd schedule, particularly during COVID so call ahead to make sure they'll be open).
Charlie. This is probably the fourth time I've watched this video and taken copious refresher notes. Thanks for producing great content and information. By the way. Love the shirt fella! Where'd you get it? (I'm guessing that's a logo shirt with your initials on it?)
Thanks Dan! Really glad you found it useful. And thanks about the shirt... haha my Dad actually made these for my bachelor party a few years ago. We were going fishing and so he had shirts made for everyone and the super cub is towing a bass. They were a big hit!
@@AirplaneAcademy RATS!! I thought maybe you had some cool "support the channel" merch that you were making available. 🙁 BTW... Is that you in a set of dress blues with your bride in that picture that's behind your chair in some of your videos?
Cessna 150 and 152 = 2 people, loud and slow. Cherokee 140 = not as friendly as a Piper Warrior with the tapered wing, slightly faster though. Piper Tri-Pacer, loud and cloth skin. Grumman Tiger, had great hopes for it, but a Cessna 172 or Piper Cherokee 140 is probably a better aircraft. Although I know about it, i'm not familiar with the Beechcraft Musketeer, never flew one. Thank you for this video.
Just fiund your channel, great video!! I'm early into my PPL training (15hrs) but making good progress and looking to buy my first plane soon. Thanks for the info.
Have you soloed yet? I'm around 65 hours and I'm about to retake my checkride. Make sure you know the Airmen Certification Standards inside and out. I wish I would of done a proper online ground school instead of having my CFI hang out with me in the conference room for a few hours here and there when the weather was too bad to fly.
Thanks for that vid. I plan to buy a plane next year and have been looking around already. Here in Oz theybare more expensive tp buy. But your video was good none the less. Cheers.
Canada too. Planes north of the border are a good bit more than the same plane in the USA, even when considering the exchange rate. I've been looking for a Maule and when I see it's located in Canada, I just keep looking. I've also been keeping an eye out for a hangar. I haven't found one available in the state I live in. I'm going to have to find a farmer that used to fly and wants to rent me a spot.
Unfortunately I think he just made a good argument to rent a plane. I'd love to have my own plane but with a price tag of about $1200 a month, I think I'd rather put that money towards my home. And all honesty, I REALLY want to own my own plane but now I don't see how
$1200/a month for a 172 or da40 around here is about 6 to 8 hours of rental time. So if you are a 10 hour or more per month guy then buying makes sense. But here in CA hanger space is hard to come by, but tie down are cheap. Flip side, you won’t be doing a lot of oil changes on a hot tarmac!
Renting a plane for more than a few hours is a pain in the tail feathers. FBO's have minimum daily rental hours to keep up with their own expenses in maintaining the aircraft and paying loan or leaseback costs. Owning your own plane, or being able to participate in a partnership or club gives you so much more flexibility when it comes to flying vacations. I'm not saying an FBO won't rent it to you for a week, but it'll not be cheap. If you only fly an hour or two a week, renting is better, especially now that we have "inflation" affecting everything. Meanwhile, simulation has come of age and I enjoy flying a variety of aircraft in X-Plane. I got my ppl in 1974 in a Cessna 152 Aerobat but most of my time is in C172's.
Thank you so much for forgetting all about my Piper Colt. I just purchased a low time Colt with an upgraded engine for $7500. I put about $2300 into the first annual and now have a plane that isn't "fly"nanced, is cheap on maintenance and gas, and can fulfill mission (yes, I watched your other video!). Keep up the great work.
@@lastdeadmouse7 He ACTUALLY mentioned the 150/152/172...which are basically the same airframe also. I honestly meant the thanks...it keeps the price of my plane low so parts will remain cheap.
Great video! Just finishing up my PPL and I just bought a FG cardinal 177 with a partner and I'm certain we can get very close to those numbers. It's also great to only have to pay 1/2 of the invoices too!
Hi Travis - congrats on finishing your PPL!! So awesome. And congrats on the Cardinal... i have not flown one myself but all Cardinal owners I've ever met have RAVED about them. Have so much fun!
Buy your life insurance before starting lessons. I wanted to buy more after I got my license but the price for the new policy was more. Your experience may vary.
i still believe to rent a plane can be more affordable. again, depending on your hours of flying per year. i'm still considering :) thanks for the video!
I think I saw somewhere a video where some guy explained the break-even point of buying vs. renting a plane. He was quite a bit more detailed than Charlie. Looking at the numbers Charlie put up in the video, owning the plane costs $146 per hour of flying, with the assumption that you're flying 100 hours per year. If you drop to 50 hours, you halve your variable cost but the fixed stays the same, railing that number to $239 per hour (friggin' expensive!). If you raise the time to 200 hours per year, you double the variable cost, fixed stays the same -> $100 per hour. (At 200 h/a, you might want to factor in setting aside some money for the engine overhaul, though). On the other hand, nobody said you have to buy the plane on credit, if you can afford it, buy it with cash and the loan cost becomes much less scary (not paying 4% in interest is a possible investment, comparing to having the money just in your account and getting next to nothing in interest).
Thanks and glad it was helpful! I'm based in DFW area also. It can be intimidating at first but if you can learn to fly here, you can literally fly anywhere. I suggest my video on ATC tips.
@@spinnetti I haven't started the flying portion of my training. Just finished my ground school. Waiting for my medical before I sink a lot of money into flying. I'm probably going to Ayers Aviation at GLE.
Thanks. Good video! Very interestingly I right away said that I can’t afford that.......... then........I. Compared these costs to my 39 foot sailboat ( yacht) equipped to cross an ocean. 1980’s vintage. Wow! Amazingly close almost across the board. The annual for me is haul out bottom job and misc. I mean really about the same. And I have seen some very interesting sport/experimental aircraft that could fit nicely in here. Again, good stuff. Thanks.
Before COVID after COVID. The market prices for everything hads fluctuated so much, cars, boats, and even airplanes. I just don’t understand how. First prices were very reasonable before COVID, then briefly prices dropped and you could get a fantastic deal if you looked, then prices skyrocketed to the moon. After COVID I expected things to “normalize “ but that hasn’t been my experience. Prices are still vey high. I can’t understand why
I had 1976 150M with 40d flaps. 3723V was the example aircraft in AOPA Pilot mag Best Buy article. I think 10’s production was stopped in 1977. The 152 continued to be produced until 1985.
Very cool video. Consider this: you're paying $12k per year to own an airplane, and the first 100 flight hours are included for free. Not such a bad deal if you think about it.
My Grumman Cheetah (AA-5A) is exactly the same airframe as the Grumman Tiger you mentioned but 160hp vs 180hp for the Tiger. This results in a lower fuel burn for about 10kts less speed which is fine with me. In short, if you can afford a 'classic' muscle car, you can afford to own an airplane. New Sub!
Good info but unfortunately it only further proves that for me as a working man, those figures add up to over $1000 a month and is very cost prohibitive.
I guess i'm stuck renting if I get my sports license. I have a full time job where I make probably 120 dollars a day after taxes are taken out (12 hours a day job and swing shift work schedule). 40 dollars a day is a massive chunk of my wallet, maybe renting a plane 5 or 6 times a year is a possibility for me. It can be really discouraging for this blue collar factory worker to see money as the biggest obstacle but it's my dream to fly, no matter if it's a couple of times a year I just want to earn it and be proud of something. I wish they would move the cessnas into the sport license category.
The two I've always wanted are kind of opposites. A Piper Super Cub, and a V Tail Bonanza. BTW I flew a Sundowner for maybe 40 - 50 hours and found it to be a very comfortable roomy aircraft. If your a big guy, it's probably one of the best choices.
Good info! The super cub is a LOT of fun. That's what I originally learned to fly in and have about 150 hours in it now. Not a ton, but enough to get comfortable with it. Incredibly fun airplane. Lots of pilots flying the big birds (777's and the like) still say their favorite plane is a piper super cub.
humm 40.00 a day. 30 days in a month= $1200.00 a month to own and fly? First question. What if you can only fly about 10 days out of the month? When you look at it that way, then either you have to have a whole lot better of a job than $20,000.00 a year. or even $30,000.00. When we look at that price per year, we are talking $14,400.00. It doesn't seem like a lot, until you have to factor in a mortgage pmt., utilities, vehicle pmt. ( if you have one still) Food, clothing and medical bills. If you have children too! Well then, so much for flying if all you make is 30K a year. I'd say on average, you'd have to Net at least $1000.00 a week min .( not grossing) which equates to $53,000 a year net (add a third of this for an approx. gross. Which would mean you have to be making at least $70,000.00 gross a year) $650.00 a week net won't really cut it for flying and owning your own plane. My point is this. In my neck of the woods, most people simply don't' come anywhere near 70K. I don't live in Cali, or New York or one of the other high paying states.. Even those with a degree, don't always get high paying jobs, much less get a job in the particular area they studied for either. And despite what politicians and biased more wealthy folks try to tell people! the real numbers the avg. American makes a year is not 50k or 60k. It's more on the avg. of between 18 k to 35k. I'm not goading you guy. I'm just saying, that even with your conservative numbers, give or take! It is darn expensive to own your own plane, house, car and all the other odds and ends that go with it. Most struggle just to keep a roof over there heads and others.... well they often times find themselves either having to sell a house to get out from under it or foreclose, or in some peoples cases they simply don't pay anything at all. And many many others simply cannot afford a house or to even try to get a house in todays world. We all can read about it everyday. While the American dream used to be to own your own house with the white fence, it's simply not the case in todays world. It's great that you seem to have finances to be able to have what you do, and I do thank you for giving a ball park rundown for all to see. But like I said. It is expensive. I'm an Airforce Brat first and then I'm an Air Calvary Vietnam vet second. On top of that! My first career for 20 yeas was a lIc. Airframe Mech. Where I worked for Lear Siegler on many military aircraft types. F4-D, mods to T-38s mods to equip them to become F5's Huey helicopters of various makes and the list goes on. I worked for Lockheed as well ( B 52 H model mostly), in a 20 year time frame. Even after 18 years and becoming a floor foreman with a company here in my area called AAR, I never made enough money to own or even learn to fly. Though I did go to collage and eventually got a BS degree. (Bachelors of Science degree with yea! It's defiantly a Bull S_ _ t. degree. lol). All this meaning! I've wanted to learn to fly my whole life. But just never could ever afford to do it. I will die with that dream I suspect too, since I'm now in my 60s. There will be arm chair haters. But I'm not trying to hate here. I'm simply trying to put things in realistic perspectives. Thanks for your efforts. I love watching. Flying can be said to be only for the upper middle class and higher. And of course the very lucky.
Thanks for your comment, and I definitely understand what you are saying. I wasn't trying to make the argument that flying is cheap or affordable, but rather cover the approximate ownership costs of a few airplanes that are traditionally more entry-level. Flying is a large commitment in just about every area.
@@AirplaneAcademy Taking lessons myself, rewarding and fun but also an entry commitment if you see it through of roughly $10k or more in some cases. I'm forced to take it slow and only do a few lessons here and there just to realize my 40 year dream of solo flight. With the median income for approximately 90% of the country around $63k a year and that's if you're lucky to have a decent paying job, flight is becoming much further out of reach for most Americans. Flying was never a cheap hobby or a practical means of daily transportation but it's inaccessible to a lot of people just on cost factor alone. Even after i get my license if I wanted to take my family up for a sunset cruise at minimum it will be about $350 excursion to rent each time. My instructor alone has over $100k in debt from schooling to become an airline pilot and after the minimums were raised to at least 1500 hours she's left trying to just make it by until she can get the hours she thought she already had to enter the industry. With inflation increasing and wages staying stagnant the flying community is going to start facing a crisis sooner or later where only the top 10-5-1% can afford the minimum entry costs. I think the community needs to come together and find ways to make GA flying accessible to the broader public at affordable costs to allow more entry. With drone technology advancing like wildfire in the military there will soon be a time when airlines cannot rely on military pilots to make up the bulk of their fleet. It's already happening with the recent announced pilot shortages (although not a major issue during a pandemic.) If they get real desperate they'll lower the minimum hours requirements, cut corners on training and or increase the retirement age beyond 67 just to stay afloat. All of those factors makes for a less safe environment with less experience, maybe subpar training and an aging generation of pilots that are not as cognitively alert as they may have once been. Airlines will then have to rely on the private sector to provide a good majority of their pilots but without affordable accessibility for the general public the cost factor alone will keep most shy from even walking in a door. Being a pilot is a great "trade" education that we need more of in this country as opposed to the millions of general studies degrees people are getting. I don't have the answers but I recognize there's a problem that more flying communities should be addressing today.
@@aaronsastronomy9236 The median income in my neck of the woods is listed as $51,924 And yet, that is a governmental tally not a real life tally. In any case, and not to get into the great debate of what folks really make in my neck of the woods (since you'd most likely not know that due to you most likely not living in my wooded area), everything else you stated i agree with. And to @Airplane Academy. Indeed you did a fine job with and in your assessment and it is very valuable to all that come here. Just wish it were more reasonable for folks like myself that have worked hard and made sure any bills we have, we stay diligent in not getting over our head like so many do these days. In my area, it is not affordable to any but the highest paid folks. I know because I've looked into it time and again over the years. But thanks for your well put together video. Very informative.
Tony M took the average overall in the US not a specific area. Unfortunately, millionaires and billionaires make it look higher than what it truly is for an average person, more like $40-45k overall nationwide, +/- pending where you live.
Correction: In the 152 the flaps were REDUCED to 30 max. The 150 had flaps 40, which was just in play in an accident yesterday (Dan Gryder's crash). Setting flaps to 40 in a 150 is asking for trouble, thus they reduced fully extended flaps to 30 in the next model.
I just ran the numbers on my boat, average for the last few years (insurance, dockage, fuel, reapirs, maintenance, etc) and I came up with 35 a day which did not include the purchase price (value approx 25k) so the numbers are almost identical. One day I'll switch hobbies.....
![Yeat & Quavo - 5BRAZY [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4XxnTAwyxus/mqdefault.jpg)
Hey guys! I wanted to let you know I just launched an "Insiders" Newsletter where once a week I'm sharing an important lesson I've learned in aviation, links to my latest content so you don't miss out, and links to any other interesting or helpful content I've found. I'm also working on a HUGE project I can't announce yet but I'm going to be sharing more behind the scenes info with Insiders first - Subscribe (it's free) at: airplaneacademy.com/insiders
I’m retired so I’m on a fixed income. The way I did it was to sell some land that I had and used that money towards buying a hangar and a C-182 outright otherwise I couldn’t afford to have an airplane. My yearly insurance is $832.00 and my yearly payment to the county for the land lease of where my hangar sits is $300.00. If everything goes well with my owner assist annual it’s $500.00, for a total price of $1632.00/year fixed cost if I don’t fly the airplane. Cost of fuel at the airport is $3.75/gallon.
smart way to go, though I think I would have a very hard time selling any land off, but if it fulfills a dream, and it’s land you weren’t using and hopefully you didn’t sell off all of your land, because that would also be a little sad, being a country boy, from the Ozarks anytime someone has to sell land for any reason always makes me a little sad, well unless I’m the one buying it, lol!
I know 15k a year is expensive for most including myself but it really is a matter of priorities. One of my friends decided to get a part time job that allowed him to earn an extra 12k a year and he loved knowing that hustling for that extra work allowed him to guilt free fly whenever he wanted.
May i ask where from the us you are from? An how much do you think the average us guy makes per year, after taxes?
Greetings from europe
I think 15k a year is a value. I personally think if you make less then 175k you should should be more focused on investing and not flying but evert is different. I think a monthly budget of about 2500 is a great starting place for pilots. I under not everyone can just write a check for repairs and anything the plane needs. And that is why I don’t think people should finance a small plan. If you want a larger jet then sure finance it but a small single engine place I think it’s better to pay cash and then have a budget if 2500 a month and you will enjoy flying But I do understood not everyone can do that.
"Man, how I'd love to go flying but I'm so tired from that second job and the overtime from my primary job, and it's raining now and I'm not IFR, and I have all this stuff that needs taking care of around the house, and my brother's birthday party across town is Sunday afternoon, and...."
@@HiroNguy what kind of goo goo murder are you smoking little man?
Good info. Based on my 20 years of ownership experience, this is a very accurate estimate of ownership costs. It will be lower for Cessna 150's and piper 140s and higher for Cessna 175 and Grumman tiger. My yearly cost for about 70 hours of flying averages $730/mo. This does not include the cost of the plane. I started in a 2 person partnership. 2 or 3 partners are a good number to make airplane ownership more affordable. Trust me, you are never going to fly as much as you think and the worst thing for a plane is for It to sit on the ramp. Just make sure you pick your partners carefully.
Thanks for saying all of this. I appreciate it!
Cessna 150 vs piper 140
$40 per day is a lot more than $730/ month. Did you have a hangar?
@@reyesben Shade port.
Is 730 for partnership or for your own
I recently bought a 1974 Beechcraft Musketeer Sport. It's an interesting plane, in that the 150hp engine the Sport came with was replaced by the factory with a 180hp Lycoming O-360. It's also had some additional modifications made to it such that it's effectively a Sundowner. The only practical difference is that it only has two windows on each side instead of three.
I love it. I'm not a small guy, so the roominess is appreciated. It's true that it's not the fastest plane, but I needed something to build time in, but also wanted something with some room to grow. This plane fills those needs nicely.
On the 150 vs 152, what I've seen from flying them is the reverse of what was mentioned on flaps. The 150's I fly go up to 40 degrees, while the 152 is limited to 30 degrees
True
Yeah, I did ppl training in both and I always had 30 in the 152 and 40 on the 150. There's probably exceptions though
Thats right, less flaps= more Money
Great info! My personal experience - I own a 182RG. Hangar space in Chicagoland is WAY more expensive than you mentioned, but not quite as high as you are paying. My annual cost is around $1,800, insurance also around $1,800. Does it make financial sense? Not a chance. But that's why I go to work every day. Our kids are grown, and I finally have the time and money to do this right. I want to fly that plane until I'm sick and tired of it, hopefully a very long time. Thanks for making the video, I enjoy all your videos.
Thank you for the work you put into making these videos! They are down to earth, very informative, and well presented. You're doing a great job!
Wow! Thanks so much, Paul. That means a lot to me!
1:09 150 / 1:36 152
2:07 172
2:39 175
3:09 Ch 140
3:44 TriPacer
4:17 Grumman Tiger
4:41 Beech Musketeer
5:28 analysis
Hey Charlie, thank you for yet another excellent video. You have a way of putting the viewer at ease with no bragging or ego trip. I always come away with more knowledge and it's usually very helpful tips for the entry or like myself, pre entry level aviator.
Hi John - thanks for your nice words and I appreciate the comment! Really glad you've been finding the channel useful. Thanks for participating.
I never thought I would get a quick Accounting lesson from an aircraft video... good job
Great video. I owned a 150 for awhile and thought it was worth every penny.
Great video but if possible I would recommend avoiding financing. I was able to cut a lot of costs and saved enough to buy my Maule. I just kept my old diesel Jetta that was paid for and my truck same. But what is funny is that the guys I know that say flying is too expensive are driving big diesel trucks and expénsive car.
Hello fellow Maule pilot 👋
As a kid growing up in SW KS, I heard stories of Clyde Cessna in his Jenny flying out to Bucklin, KS (my home town) and giving rides. Yep he was a barnstormer! My first ride in an airplane was a 172. I've loved flying ever since. Keep up the great work.
I’m pretty sure the 152 max flaps is 30 degrees while the 150 is 40 degrees. They reduced max flaps to reduced risk for training pilots (at least in theory).
I'm all over my 150 with a protractor the next time I'm at the airport. I hope my entire training wasn't a lie.
You're right. 40 degrees is fun!
I fly a 150H in a club and can confirm 40 degrees max flap extension. I never go past 30 as it's not necessary and less flaps to take out if I have to go around.
So maybe is possible! Thanks for breaking it down for me. Look forward to practical vids such as this and the 7 planes. Keep em coming and try out PK sometime!!
Glad it was helpful!
You just did a good job explaining why I decided to learn how to fly powered paragliders rather than airplanes.
Powered paragliders are a wonderful way to Fly, IMO! I can't see gliding without a motor. Just my appreciation for flying and opinion. Happy Gliding and Clear Skies!
Are they not also considered the most dangerous planes? I do not know if the information I heard was true but something along of the lines of a good portion of the aviation accidents happen in powered paragliders? If not, they do seem great, but they also can be flown without a license which could lead to cause behind all the accidents, lack of overall aviation knowledge?
Umm I'm not expert but why not go for ultralight power HANGglider? Much more plane like it seems and a tad safer
Thank you for putting your thoughts out there and sharing what you have discovered. Cost vary drastically from geographic, airplane, type of flying, availability, etc. I'm just finishing up my PPL and I want to buy a plane to complete my ratings and build time. I found that if I find 2 other like minded pilots, it becomes extremely affordable. The cost savings on rental vs buying over ~250 hours is huge! Plus the added bonus of not fighting all the other students for flight time is big time. Flying is a hobby or investment in education that is not cheap, but not anymore expensive than other hobbies. I know people that spend more than $1,000 a month on golf, boating, etc.
Good thoughts and I agree. Thanks for sharing! -Charlie
I never considered the possibility of splitting the costs with a trusted friend. Great idea. Sharing with 1 or 2 people would still beat the heck out of renting
Hey Shawn, would you mind sharing some more info with me please. I am a student pilot, getting my ppl in a month and a half or so, working towards my commercial rating
Not any more thanks to Covid. Before Covid, you could buy a great time building for around $50K or less. Those same aircraft today are $100-$150K or more in the same condition. The only thing you can practically get under $50k now is 60+-year-old aircraft in original condition at or near TBO that need a lot of exterior, interior, and avionics updates. Buying a Cessna is like buying an Apple phone, it does the same thing as every other 2-4 seater aircraft but at $15k - $20k extra on the cost, because you're paying for the Cessna name.
It's going to take a year or two, maybe even more to before we see prices begin to fall back to where they should be as everyone and their brother is using Covid as a way to profit on their merchandise. Supply and demand is the major killer right now. There isn't a lot on the market so the prices are much higher. All in all, this is good info when the prices are right but I would highly suggest not to buy a plane right now. It's a great time to sell but definitely not a good time to buy. Just wait!
Great advice. What aircraft do you suggest that is equal to a Cessna 150? I'm comparing purchasing vs renting for flight lessons, etc.
@@Estebanserrano96 Look at the Flight Design CTSW
The best 2 days of owning my airplane was the day I bought it and the day I sold it....was the best way to turn money into noise.
My buddy had a 152. Only pilot I’ve gotten to know personally. Think he’s updated to a 172/182 since he had children.
Most of these airplanes can legally be flown on autofuel. At $2/gallon x 8 gallons/hr=$16. If you use 100LL you are spending an extra $24/hour. You can do your own oil changes and save >$100/hour. You can help out on the annual inspections and save several hundred $. There are many repairs one can legally do and one can buy real airplane parts from aircraft salvage dealers. And, if you have any friends, you can go halfsies with him/her/it.
Definitely a lot of ways to save!
Discovered your channel just yesterday. I really like it since I'm very interested in aviation and aiming to get a LAPL(A) soon!
I've always dreamed of an own airplane.
Greetings from Germany!
Just go for your PPL, you can do more with it...
@felic. Check out worms airport and Coleman aero club for FAA ppl
Thank you!
very informative. You might consider looking at some LSAs given the impending changes that MOSAIC is likely to implement. I'm new to this stuff, but I saw a video where they said 20 years ago most LSAs were motorized kites. Today, with the improvements in lightweight materials, you can buy entire planes that are as roomy as a C150 with similar performance characteristics. In fact, as proposed, the new MOSAIC metrics would include C150/152s and possibly 170/172s. But for those looking for power and speed, some of these newest LSAs will be able to double their power and speed while not even doubling their weight, all of which will be possible under MOSAIC, and the cost increases will not need to double.
Whatever airplane you buy, the most important part is a good pre-buy inspection by a mechanic familiar with all the expensive gotchas for that aircraft. A bargain airplane more often than not becomes a maintenance money pit soon after buying it. Also in my experience, the most difficult aspect of buying a first plane was finding a place to hangar it. If you plan to just tie it outside then it's not that bad, but indoors is preferable, especially with fabric covered airplanes or severe storm prone areas. Most airports seem to have a waiting list a mile long of people needing hangar space. I hangared in a town over an hour away for six months until luckily a space at a nearby private airport opened up. Of the aircraft you listed, I bought a Tri-Pacer and love it.
Look into LSA/Experimental class airplanes/flying...can be much less expensive!
Thats a really useful ball park guide that will assist many people as a starting point ,there are many variables to this and avenues to take,just make sure that aircraft maintenance is properly figured in whatever vintage of aircraft you fly and however you intend to tackle airworthiness.
Best informative clear and concise video of cost of ownership- thank you
Wow! Thanks so much.
@@AirplaneAcademy i am looking to buy a plane, which i have a handle on but don’t know if the hanger needs to come first or the plane. I live near Addison so am thinking thats where i should park it but also hear probably not going to have any luck with hangers there. Any advice?
Whether 100% accurate or not (which you definitely sound like you have done your research) thank you for that breakdown. I have been watching videos of PPC and PPG for over a year and just bought my first powered parachute trike. I won’t pick it up till Spring and this winter am getting my pilots license. I do t need my license to fly my PPC but I have always wanted one and at 45 decided I’m ready and it’s time. I had no idea what my daily or yearly expenses would look like so thank you very much for the breakdown.
I’m also a new subscriber (yesterday) and appreciate your content and how well you explain things.
I’m in Ohio but would love to meet up someday. I believe in inspiring others as you talk and hope to pay it forward someday.
Thank you.
Thanks for the comment! And I'm working on putting some meet ups together, maybe we'll make it to Ohio at some point! Would love to do some flying in and around that area. Your parachute trike sounds like a freakin blast.
For what it’s worth I owned a AA1B for almost four years. Sold her two months ago. Was a dream to fly and fairly economical burning 5.5 GPH. Downside was payload and range but my mission was to do primarily local 1-2 hour flights so never had a problem. If your mission is to burn holes in the sky chasing clouds then this may be a plane to consider!
I would add the Piper PA38 Tomahawk to the list. if only because it can be used for spin training rather than just spin avoidance.
I came upon your channel and have found it to be very informative and interesting. Thanks for posting helpful videos. 😊
I'm so glad you enjoy the channel! Thank you for watching!
Nice. Realistic. Very informative. Thank you. Much appreciated.
I guess this answers the question I posted in your other video, so thank you!
I've only watched 2 of your videos and I'm already hooked! Great content here. Although I'm planning on buying a plane for post-Covid business travel (and thus not really in the Cessna-level category), I am considering buying a second plane for personal use like a Cessna or Beechcraft. So this is all relevant info and all great information to consider. Thanks again for sharing this.
Thanks Owen! Really glad you found it useful!
Awesome, Charlie! Love the all the videos.
Thank you!
Thanks for your information on flying, I started looking into finding out the cost of learning how to fly a aircraft a few days ago. I've always wanted to but I'm not getting any younger.
Thank you for making this video it was really helpful enjoyed watching it 👍
I'm so glad you enjoyed it and it was helpful!
Man, airplane prices have gone insane since the making of this video. Lol.
I purchased a C150k for $14,000 cash nine years ago. 9,000 hr airframe, 1200 hr smoh, Annual averages $1500 including some replaced parts like tires etc. liability insurance only is $208/yr, mogas $3.80/ gal at 4.8 gal/ hr, tiedown $40/ mo. The plane now has 1800 hrs with good engine and avionics health but exterior paint has degraded to the point of needing new paint in a few years. I couldn’t be happier with affordability and reliability given from this small Cessna. I hope this may inspire you to keep it simple and pay cash and/ or in part, personal loan.
Great info bro! Keep up the good work, I’m happy to see your channel grow!
Thanks so much! Really appreciate it.
I like the estimates. You do a great job of explaining how you arrive at them. The issue I have is that it works out to an average of $1,200/month. For a lot of people. $1,200/month for a 'fun' item IS by definition prohibitively expensive. The average median income in the United States is $33,706. A person falling into this range would be spending 43% of their income to own an airplane. Even if they make twice the median income you are still talking about roughly 20% of their income. Based on what I can afford to spend, I would need the aircraft to have a daily cost of about $5 to $10 per day in order for it to be even close to affordable. In order to get it past my wife, I'd have to get it down to closer to $100/month. I'm open to suggestions, but I've run the numbers the best I can and I can't find a way I can fly anything other than a Flight Sim or perhaps a PPG and our local weather isn't conducive to PPG's very often.
Thanks for the comment. Sorry if it came off this way, but I wasn't trying to make the argument as to whether or not $1,200 was a lot or a little, because you're right it's all relative. I was trying to highlight a few traditionally "less expensive" aircraft (in relation to the spectrum of aviation) to own and operate and the breakdown of approximate costs based on my own experience. Certainly not trying to isolate anyone by saying they should or shouldn't be able to afford it. That being said, there's lots of fun to still be had in flight sim or taking an occasional exposure flight with a flight school. Consider looking into local EAA chapters, you might be able to make some pilot friends and go along with them from time to time to still get in the air. Anything to be around aviation!
Well you made most of your problem known when you say you have to "get it past your wife" my word dude. Who wears the pants in your household? Yeah! Exactly! And 34k a year is like what I made 20 years ago out of high-school at 10 or 11 buck an hr!! Shit! Get a better job! Aint no reason you can't be making 60 to 100k a year! Hell yes you can! This country is full of opportunities and people with excuses. It's the best time to prosper when everyone is moping around crying about how bad things are then you know it's a good time to jump on opportunities. Endless job opportunities out there and people begging for help! Name your own pay rate basically! Oh and I saw a nice 150 on barnstormers.com the other day with a few hrs on a new rebuild for 30k I believe! Don't get any better than that! Times are good when you shut off the news, stop focusing on the negative, take the pants 👖 away from your wife and make shit happen! Your wife will want to rip your 👖 off if you do so it's a win win! 🏆 😁
@@lovetofly32 It's $1200/month for something you use maybe 50 hours a year. Something that costs $1200/month better appreciate in value or make me $1600/mo.
two ownership concepts/questions that would also be helpful to hear your perspective:
- partial ownership: pros/cons of formally partnering (LLC) with one or two other partners to share cost and flight time.
- lease-back: cost-benefit of leasing the airplane to a flight school/FBO and letting them manage/track/schedule the maintenance and rentals. Does that generate enough revenue to offset the increased usage and maintenance, and to reduce your cost of ownership?
thx!
AV Web had a good article on it here I'd suggest. There are pros and cons to doing partial ownership or leaseback and it really just depends on your unique situation. Personally I wouldn't do a leaseback and I'd only do partial ownership for the right situation where either it was a niche plane I wasn't going to use a lot and wanted a co-owner or I was really tight with the other owner and we were really aligned on the money side (i.e. not skimping on maintenance ever), how we'd split up use the airplane, what it looks like if someone wants out, etc (and I'd put it all in writing so there's no room for question)... all in all I would prefer owning it outright whenever possible just to avoid those issues. But it can be done successfully.
www.avweb.com/ownership/is-a-leaseback-good-for-you/
Thank you so much for this video. You are way too kind. This is awesome information. I love your content. Keep up the great work. You are a very knowledgeable pilot with a kind heart. God bless you and your family.
Thanks for saying so! Really nice of you to say.
Just found you. Pls keep up the videos. Awesome.
Thanks Charlie for breaking this down and makes it simple to understand.
Thanks so much for saying so. Glad it was helpful!
Good work, thanks for the numbers!
Nice job Charley !
Liked/Subscribed !
Thank you! Pumped to have you as a subscriber!
I've owned seven airplanes. Buying an airplane is the cheapest thing that you'll ever do. After that, they get very expensive.
Great information We appreciate the time to do the video that helps a lot
I'm so glad! :
Good report, inspiring me to get back into flying. Thanks
This is a really well done and informative video. Thank you for your work.
Thank you so much! I really appreciate that.
Great analysis, but what about repairs? Things inevitably break and the price of simple things can be outrageous. In 2002 I was flying a C172 when tower told me my mode c wasn’t working. I landed and taxied over to the radio shop where the mode c unit had to be replaced. $1000. I’m glad I wasn’t the owner of that plane.
Okay, that adds $2.74 / day, but it’s just an example of how blind expenses may pop up.
Great Job o this Video, I can see it took a lot of work. I Subbed and looking forward to more Vids and Info! Thumbs Up!
Thank you so much! Excited to have you subsribe!
Love your 182. I just bought a 172 low hrs new paint 340 TBO and l live in the Dallas area. Thanks for the lake Texoma tip and keep up the good work.
Congratulations and that sounds like a great set up! And yes Cedar Mills on Texoma is a must. Worth the short walk over to Pelican's Landing for a meal also (they have an odd schedule, particularly during COVID so call ahead to make sure they'll be open).
Airplane Academy a
Excellent calculations. Thank you for this nice video. Great info.
Thank you! Really glad you found it helpful.
That’s the best math I’ve seen for GA
Until you multiply $40 by 365 😳
Benny Reyes go to planephd.com
Nice job guy, very informative and thought provoking.
Much appreciated! Glad it was helpful.
Charlie. This is probably the fourth time I've watched this video and taken copious refresher notes. Thanks for producing great content and information.
By the way. Love the shirt fella! Where'd you get it? (I'm guessing that's a logo shirt with your initials on it?)
Thanks Dan! Really glad you found it useful. And thanks about the shirt... haha my Dad actually made these for my bachelor party a few years ago. We were going fishing and so he had shirts made for everyone and the super cub is towing a bass. They were a big hit!
@@AirplaneAcademy RATS!! I thought maybe you had some cool "support the channel" merch that you were making available. 🙁
BTW... Is that you in a set of dress blues with your bride in that picture that's behind your chair in some of your videos?
Awesome Video! Thanks for sharing
Glad you enjoyed!
Thanks Charles!! Appreciate your videos! 🙏🏻
I appreciate that!
Look at the experimental/homebuilts for great performance with a fraction of the operating costs of certified airplanes.
Any recommendations on experimentals?
Cessna 150 and 152 = 2 people, loud and slow. Cherokee 140 = not as friendly as a Piper Warrior with the tapered wing, slightly faster though. Piper Tri-Pacer, loud and cloth skin. Grumman Tiger, had great hopes for it, but a Cessna 172 or Piper Cherokee 140 is probably a better aircraft. Although I know about it, i'm not familiar with the Beechcraft Musketeer, never flew one. Thank you for this video.
Dude GREAT VIDEO!
Oil lab data analysis expenses should be included under the oil change costs. Very important data to know monitoring engine wear and safety.
Just fiund your channel, great video!! I'm early into my PPL training (15hrs) but making good progress and looking to buy my first plane soon. Thanks for the info.
Fantastic! That's all great news. Best of luck with your PPL!
Have you soloed yet? I'm around 65 hours and I'm about to retake my checkride. Make sure you know the Airmen Certification Standards inside and out. I wish I would of done a proper online ground school instead of having my CFI hang out with me in the conference room for a few hours here and there when the weather was too bad to fly.
Thanks for that vid. I plan to buy a plane next year and have been looking around already. Here in Oz theybare more expensive tp buy. But your video was good none the less. Cheers.
Canada too. Planes north of the border are a good bit more than the same plane in the USA, even when considering the exchange rate. I've been looking for a Maule and when I see it's located in Canada, I just keep looking. I've also been keeping an eye out for a hangar. I haven't found one available in the state I live in. I'm going to have to find a farmer that used to fly and wants to rent me a spot.
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed.
Great information, Charlie. Thank you!
Glad it was helpful!
Unfortunately I think he just made a good argument to rent a plane. I'd love to have my own plane but with a price tag of about $1200 a month, I think I'd rather put that money towards my home. And all honesty, I REALLY want to own my own plane but now I don't see how
$1200/a month for a 172 or da40 around here is about 6 to 8 hours of rental time. So if you are a 10 hour or more per month guy then buying makes sense. But here in CA hanger space is hard to come by, but tie down are cheap. Flip side, you won’t be doing a lot of oil changes on a hot tarmac!
it really depends on how much flying you intend to do
Renting a plane for more than a few hours is a pain in the tail feathers. FBO's have minimum daily rental hours to keep up with their own expenses in maintaining the aircraft and paying loan or leaseback costs. Owning your own plane, or being able to participate in a partnership or club gives you so much more flexibility when it comes to flying vacations. I'm not saying an FBO won't rent it to you for a week, but it'll not be cheap. If you only fly an hour or two a week, renting is better, especially now that we have "inflation" affecting everything. Meanwhile, simulation has come of age and I enjoy flying a variety of aircraft in X-Plane. I got my ppl in 1974 in a Cessna 152 Aerobat but most of my time is in C172's.
I did all my training in a Musketeer Super III, Such a good plane!
Awesome! Never flown in a muskateer.
Very educational. Good knowledge.
Glad it is helpful!
Thank you so much for forgetting all about my Piper Colt. I just purchased a low time Colt with an upgraded engine for $7500. I put about $2300 into the first annual and now have a plane that isn't "fly"nanced, is cheap on maintenance and gas, and can fulfill mission (yes, I watched your other video!). Keep up the great work.
Technically, he mentioned the pacer, and the Colt is the same airframe lol.
@@lastdeadmouse7 He ACTUALLY mentioned the 150/152/172...which are basically the same airframe also. I honestly meant the thanks...it keeps the price of my plane low so parts will remain cheap.
How much leg room does the Colt have? How big of a guy are you?
@@russellsmith3825 I'm 5'9" so plenty of legroom! And I weigh 168 so doubtful I could ever overload it either.
@@neskyz4259 yeah I'm 6'2" with a 50"chest and about 285 so I feel like Mr Incredible in his bubble car in many airframes.
Great video! Just found your channel and love your content. I subscribed!
So glad and thank you for subscribing! Pumped to have you.
Great video! Just finishing up my PPL and I just bought a FG cardinal 177 with a partner and I'm certain we can get very close to those numbers. It's also great to only have to pay 1/2 of the invoices too!
Hi Travis - congrats on finishing your PPL!! So awesome. And congrats on the Cardinal... i have not flown one myself but all Cardinal owners I've ever met have RAVED about them. Have so much fun!
@@AirplaneAcademy Thanks!
Good video with great information.
So glad you enjoyed the video and found it helpful.
Excellent stuff bro, got the want to not the money
You just do not know what have you done!
Fired a dream that I am afraid Will never stop!
Awesome content.
Buy your life insurance before starting lessons. I wanted to buy more after I got my license but the price for the new policy was more. Your experience may vary.
Go tp AOPA you can get life insurance that only pays if in an airplane, reasonably Cheap
My premium was definitely higher for being a pilot but when I got my instrument the rate went back down.
Another great YT recommendation, nice ^^
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed.
i still believe to rent a plane can be more affordable. again, depending on your hours of flying per year. i'm still considering :) thanks for the video!
I think I saw somewhere a video where some guy explained the break-even point of buying vs. renting a plane. He was quite a bit more detailed than Charlie.
Looking at the numbers Charlie put up in the video, owning the plane costs $146 per hour of flying, with the assumption that you're flying 100 hours per year.
If you drop to 50 hours, you halve your variable cost but the fixed stays the same, railing that number to $239 per hour (friggin' expensive!).
If you raise the time to 200 hours per year, you double the variable cost, fixed stays the same -> $100 per hour. (At 200 h/a, you might want to factor in setting aside some money for the engine overhaul, though).
On the other hand, nobody said you have to buy the plane on credit, if you can afford it, buy it with cash and the loan cost becomes much less scary (not paying 4% in interest is a possible investment, comparing to having the money just in your account and getting next to nothing in interest).
Very useful for this DFW new student pilot.
Thanks and glad it was helpful! I'm based in DFW area also. It can be intimidating at first but if you can learn to fly here, you can literally fly anywhere. I suggest my video on ATC tips.
Where you doing lessons? I started out at Spinks, but but too far and got an instructor I didn't like. Need to get back at it.
@@spinnetti I haven't started the flying portion of my training. Just finished my ground school. Waiting for my medical before I sink a lot of money into flying. I'm probably going to Ayers Aviation at GLE.
@@spinnetti FWIW I did my training at KADS at American Flyers and had a good experience.
Great plane! Great video, glad I found your channel.
Signed,
A student pilot/new subscriber! 😎
Awesome, thank you!
Thanks. Good video! Very interestingly I right away said that I can’t afford that.......... then........I. Compared these costs to my 39 foot sailboat ( yacht) equipped to cross an ocean. 1980’s vintage. Wow! Amazingly close almost across the board. The annual for me is haul out bottom job and misc. I mean really about the same. And I have seen some very interesting sport/experimental aircraft that could fit nicely in here. Again, good stuff. Thanks.
I have heard a lot of parallels to boat ownership!
Before COVID after COVID. The market prices for everything hads fluctuated so much, cars, boats, and even airplanes. I just don’t understand how. First prices were very reasonable before COVID, then briefly prices dropped and you could get a fantastic deal if you looked, then prices skyrocketed to the moon. After COVID I expected things to “normalize “ but that hasn’t been my experience. Prices are still vey high. I can’t understand why
GREED
I had 1976 150M with 40d flaps. 3723V was the example aircraft in AOPA Pilot mag Best Buy article. I think 10’s production was stopped in 1977. The 152 continued to be produced until 1985.
Very cool video. Consider this: you're paying $12k per year to own an airplane, and the first 100 flight hours are included for free. Not such a bad deal if you think about it.
My Grumman Cheetah (AA-5A) is exactly the same airframe as the Grumman Tiger you mentioned but 160hp vs 180hp for the Tiger. This results in a lower fuel burn for about 10kts less speed which is fine with me. In short, if you can afford a 'classic' muscle car, you can afford to own an airplane. New Sub!
Nicely said and I agree! And pumped to have you!
The Cheetah is more fun to fly than the 172. Just feels more sporty.
Good info but unfortunately it only further proves that for me as a working man, those figures add up to over $1000 a month and is very cost prohibitive.
I guess i'm stuck renting if I get my sports license. I have a full time job where I make probably 120 dollars a day after taxes are taken out (12 hours a day job and swing shift work schedule). 40 dollars a day is a massive chunk of my wallet, maybe renting a plane 5 or 6 times a year is a possibility for me. It can be really discouraging for this blue collar factory worker to see money as the biggest obstacle but it's my dream to fly, no matter if it's a couple of times a year I just want to earn it and be proud of something. I wish they would move the cessnas into the sport license category.
Nice video and very good presentation.
Thank you very much! Glad it was helpful.
The two I've always wanted are kind of opposites. A Piper Super Cub, and a V Tail Bonanza. BTW I flew a Sundowner for maybe 40 - 50 hours and found it to be a very comfortable roomy aircraft. If your a big guy, it's probably one of the best choices.
Good info! The super cub is a LOT of fun. That's what I originally learned to fly in and have about 150 hours in it now. Not a ton, but enough to get comfortable with it. Incredibly fun airplane. Lots of pilots flying the big birds (777's and the like) still say their favorite plane is a piper super cub.
humm 40.00 a day. 30 days in a month= $1200.00 a month to own and fly? First question. What if you can only fly about 10 days out of the month? When you look at it that way, then either you have to have a whole lot better of a job than $20,000.00 a year. or even $30,000.00. When we look at that price per year, we are talking $14,400.00. It doesn't seem like a lot, until you have to factor in a mortgage pmt., utilities, vehicle pmt. ( if you have one still) Food, clothing and medical bills. If you have children too! Well then, so much for flying if all you make is 30K a year. I'd say on average, you'd have to Net at least $1000.00 a week min .( not grossing) which equates to $53,000 a year net (add a third of this for an approx. gross. Which would mean you have to be making at least $70,000.00 gross a year) $650.00 a week net won't really cut it for flying and owning your own plane.
My point is this. In my neck of the woods, most people simply don't' come anywhere near 70K. I don't live in Cali, or New York or one of the other high paying states.. Even those with a degree, don't always get high paying jobs, much less get a job in the particular area they studied for either. And despite what politicians and biased more wealthy folks try to tell people! the real numbers the avg. American makes a year is not 50k or 60k. It's more on the avg. of between 18 k to 35k. I'm not goading you guy. I'm just saying, that even with your conservative numbers, give or take! It is darn expensive to own your own plane, house, car and all the other odds and ends that go with it. Most struggle just to keep a roof over there heads and others.... well they often times find themselves either having to sell a house to get out from under it or foreclose, or in some peoples cases they simply don't pay anything at all. And many many others simply cannot afford a house or to even try to get a house in todays world. We all can read about it everyday. While the American dream used to be to own your own house with the white fence, it's simply not the case in todays world. It's great that you seem to have finances to be able to have what you do, and I do thank you for giving a ball park rundown for all to see. But like I said. It is expensive.
I'm an Airforce Brat first and then I'm an Air Calvary Vietnam vet second. On top of that! My first career for 20 yeas was a lIc. Airframe Mech. Where I worked for Lear Siegler on many military aircraft types. F4-D, mods to T-38s mods to equip them to become F5's Huey helicopters of various makes and the list goes on. I worked for Lockheed as well ( B 52 H model mostly), in a 20 year time frame. Even after 18 years and becoming a floor foreman with a company here in my area called AAR, I never made enough money to own or even learn to fly. Though I did go to collage and eventually got a BS degree. (Bachelors of Science degree with yea! It's defiantly a Bull S_ _ t. degree. lol). All this meaning! I've wanted to learn to fly my whole life. But just never could ever afford to do it. I will die with that dream I suspect too, since I'm now in my 60s. There will be arm chair haters. But I'm not trying to hate here. I'm simply trying to put things in realistic perspectives. Thanks for your efforts. I love watching. Flying can be said to be only for the upper middle class and higher. And of course the very lucky.
Thanks for your comment, and I definitely understand what you are saying. I wasn't trying to make the argument that flying is cheap or affordable, but rather cover the approximate ownership costs of a few airplanes that are traditionally more entry-level. Flying is a large commitment in just about every area.
@@AirplaneAcademy Taking lessons myself, rewarding and fun but also an entry commitment if you see it through of roughly $10k or more in some cases. I'm forced to take it slow and only do a few lessons here and there just to realize my 40 year dream of solo flight. With the median income for approximately 90% of the country around $63k a year and that's if you're lucky to have a decent paying job, flight is becoming much further out of reach for most Americans. Flying was never a cheap hobby or a practical means of daily transportation but it's inaccessible to a lot of people just on cost factor alone. Even after i get my license if I wanted to take my family up for a sunset cruise at minimum it will be about $350 excursion to rent each time.
My instructor alone has over $100k in debt from schooling to become an airline pilot and after the minimums were raised to at least 1500 hours she's left trying to just make it by until she can get the hours she thought she already had to enter the industry. With inflation increasing and wages staying stagnant the flying community is going to start facing a crisis sooner or later where only the top 10-5-1% can afford the minimum entry costs.
I think the community needs to come together and find ways to make GA flying accessible to the broader public at affordable costs to allow more entry. With drone technology advancing like wildfire in the military there will soon be a time when airlines cannot rely on military pilots to make up the bulk of their fleet. It's already happening with the recent announced pilot shortages (although not a major issue during a pandemic.) If they get real desperate they'll lower the minimum hours requirements, cut corners on training and or increase the retirement age beyond 67 just to stay afloat. All of those factors makes for a less safe environment with less experience, maybe subpar training and an aging generation of pilots that are not as cognitively alert as they may have once been.
Airlines will then have to rely on the private sector to provide a good majority of their pilots but without affordable accessibility for the general public the cost factor alone will keep most shy from even walking in a door.
Being a pilot is a great "trade" education that we need more of in this country as opposed to the millions of general studies degrees people are getting. I don't have the answers but I recognize there's a problem that more flying communities should be addressing today.
@@aaronsastronomy9236 The median income in my neck of the woods is listed as $51,924 And yet, that is a governmental tally not a real life tally. In any case, and not to get into the great debate of what folks really make in my neck of the woods (since you'd most likely not know that due to you most likely not living in my wooded area), everything else you stated i agree with.
And to @Airplane Academy. Indeed you did a fine job with and in your assessment and it is very valuable to all that come here. Just wish it were more reasonable for folks like myself that have worked hard and made sure any bills we have, we stay diligent in not getting over our head like so many do these days. In my area, it is not affordable to any but the highest paid folks. I know because I've looked into it time and again over the years. But thanks for your well put together video. Very informative.
Tony M took the average overall in the US not a specific area. Unfortunately, millionaires and billionaires make it look higher than what it truly is for an average person, more like $40-45k overall nationwide, +/- pending where you live.
I think the one thing that makes flying expensive is the license. In the US I have had quotes in the range of $10000. In the UK is about £10000 ..
Therefore:
Purchase the plane
Gain as many certificates as you can within 12/ 18 months
Gain employment
Sell the plane
Never, EVER buy one again.
Correction: In the 152 the flaps were REDUCED to 30 max. The 150 had flaps 40, which was just in play in an accident yesterday (Dan Gryder's crash). Setting flaps to 40 in a 150 is asking for trouble, thus they reduced fully extended flaps to 30 in the next model.
Great video. Question. Is the cost of ownership still the same today given inflation?
I just ran the numbers on my boat, average for the last few years (insurance, dockage, fuel, reapirs, maintenance, etc) and I came up with 35 a day which did not include the purchase price (value approx 25k) so the numbers are almost identical. One day I'll switch hobbies.....
Really helpful video. Could you do something similar for LSA aircraft?
They made areobat 150s as well and the flaps on the original 150 opened to 40 degrees. They only open to 30 on the 152