Ethical dilemma: Would you lie? - Sarah Stroud
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- Опубликовано: 1 июн 2022
- Puzzle through the ethical dilemma of lying to a friend, and decide: is lying always wrong or can it be justifiable?
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Your plan to set up your friend Carey with your acquaintance Emerson is finally coming together. You’ve made them a dinner reservation, but suddenly realize that there's a problem: Carey is always late. You really want this relationship to work- what if you told Carey dinner was at 6 instead of 6:30, so they arrived on time? Is it okay to lie? Sarah Stroud explores this classic ethical dilemma.
Lesson by Sarah Stroud, directed by Avi Ofer.
This video was produced in collaboration with the Parr Center for Ethics, housed within the renowned Philosophy Department at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. The Parr Center is committed to integrating abstract work in ethical theory with the informed discussion of practical ethical issues, and prides itself on the development of innovative and inclusive approaches to moral and civic education.
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This one is pretty easy imo. Emerson will definitely find out about Carey's chronic lateness eventually, and would be hurt if you lied to them about it. It would also hurt the relationship. Tell Emerson that Carrey is often late, tell Carrey to be on time for once ffs, and then let them do with the information what they will. You didn't lie, everyone was reasonably informed, their happiness is up to them at this point
This.
yeah why does the problem put the burden on us to figure out somebody elses relationship
@@shadybat3183 I think in the problem posed in the video, because you were the one to set them up and this is a first date, rather than a full blown relationship
@@deathXbyXlight i guess that makes sense, the whole concept of setting people up together is kind of weird imo
Thought exactly the same!
But we're missing one important fact: if Emerson considers lateness irresponsible, why should one lie? Emerson should experience Carey's behavior for themselves and then make a decision accordingly.
because he wants to eat on time
@@ostrich_dogbased
Edit: Baste
Very true. On one hand, I would tell Carey she might want to think about being a bit more punctual for these dates and get his thoughts about her purposefull tardiness, but the veiw that that isn't the friends decision would be my go to in that Scanario. Of course, the first answer could include the second answer amd you could lead to whether or not she is willing to Shang a bit, just for some guy.
@@michaelwu7678 then you tell him in advance it’s rude to make someone wait
That do mention that
I think there's a bigger problem with the lie than it's inherent ethics: what if she's on time for once? That would screw up their relationship too, wouldn't it?
If she’s always late, she always makes people wait for her and doesn’t feel bad about it. So why would she feel bad if the tables turn? It’s usually people who are always punctual that feel irritated with people that are late, note the other way around.
Why? It wouldn't be the other person's fault. It would be the lying matchmaker's fault.
i was thinking about that too! if you lie and say its earlier than it is and then and Carey think she should be on time for once dosen't that mean she would think Emerson is late? and then they might A) fight over the text and then yell at you for lying! then no happyness for you. or B) fight over it and not think about it and never start a relatoinship .
@@lisecarolina He isn't running late, he was simply told a different time. So she would get mad at the friend for lying.
There might be an underlying reason why Carrie is always late and if so denying her accommodation for disability would be inherently ablest? Would it not?
I wouldn't lie in this case. I'd express to the friend the importance of being on time and it would be up to them to be late or not. The other partner will inevitably discover the lapse in punctuality and it will be up to them to decide if that's a deal breaker or not.
Also, if something as superficial as a lack of punctuality is enough to be a deal breaker on the second person's part, then the pairing wasn't well-matched to begin with.
@@Kumagoro42 A lack of punctuality is not superficial. Time is the only thing we do not get back, it's how we navigate life, and if someone consistently mismanages, is misleading with, or doesn't value their time or yours, then that is very logical reason for someone to not want to spend time with that person - or worse, spend their life-time with them.
So would I
@@MillionaireHoyOriginal I think it depends. If I meet friends at their home, especially if it includes more people. Up to 15 minutes "late" is not late at all in my opinion. More is also not a dealbreaker, but i will inform them and let them know, they should not wait for me (e.g. if cake or dinner is served). Though with dinner being served at a specific time, being too late without excuse is not very nice.
However if we meet in public - restaurant or bar - i would even inform them if i am 3 minutes late. Because it sucks to wait at a table or in front of a location. and being more than 10 minutes late - without a really good excuse - is quite problematic. Even more so, if it is a 2 person meeting (e.g. a date)
However I think Kumagoro42 means, that being on time is quite an obvious characteristic of a person. So if i am a matchmaker between two friends, for their owns sake - and not my own - i should know, whether Emerson is a very punctual person. If so, this deal-breaker is obvious.
Yeah it's a relationship we're talking about so in time they'll obviously see each others faults, so being open would be good.
I would just tell Carey:
"If you came late this time (as you always do) things might not work, it's up to you now"
Sometimes lying isn't bad, but if we can get the same result without that little white lie, all the better.
Thats what i thought too. And tell Emmerson, that she could be late, because sheis usually.
I'd also constantly remind her about the reservation every 30 minutes.
To be honest though I think there is pretty much always a better solution than lying, lies are very risky and often backfire and even if they don't chances are you need to remember for the rest of your life that you lied which creates complexity you don't need in your life.
but that's what she is as a person, so if he would not be interested in her because she was late once then it's not meant to be and they should be happy they found out so early
It astounds me how little neurotypicals understand others. What disturbs me is how little you all seem to care.
Definitely makes no sense to lie here. What if Carey sees punctuality as important for once because she is more adaptable than we think. Then she comes on time, has to wait and nothing is achieved.
They learn that their lateness is highly noticeable and might work to improve it in future
Also they said that Carey and Emerson are really excited to see each other so maybe they won't be late if they're constantly being late on purpose
weird how its not a problem when shes late, but when hes late its a problem.
Step one: Confirm that Emerson has green eyes
Step two: Ask Carey for her to arrive on time for once
see but i dont feel punctuation is necessarily important here in the scenario as presented because it isnot never brought up nor is spelling or things along those lines made to be such as syntax and or semantiks you mitghtnt feel the same simfonys this spost to be a bout been on time i think and also believe
I've been in this exact situation with a band mate who always came late to rehearsals and shows. We collectively decided to tell him the soundcheck was at twelve thirty when it was actually at two. Lo and behold, he was on time. Absolutely no regrets.
It's really hard when someone doesn't feel the need to be punctual but it's imperative they are on time. Fsfs I regret not lying to my dad about the time my graduation started.
you! you get it!
I'd argue the moral fault lies with him for putting you into that position in the first place.
So you're punishing him for being early? Now he's always gonna be late with you because you taught him that's what's expected of him.
Try a different lesson next time.
@@arandombard1197 as someone who is often late let me enlighten you that we aren't all doing this because we want to, or because we don't care. In my case it's because I care too much, I get anxious about every detail, I belittle the importance of my presence at the particular occasion, I fear coming too early and having to wait outside in the weather and waste time I should have invested into other important tasks at hand.
We're not all flawless aces at managing time. If you are, good for you, but don't assume everyone has your privileges.
Adults when I was a kid: "Lying is bad, you must never do it!"
Me when I got a present I didn't like and said so verbally: "You must keep it to yourself!"
No wonder people think autistic people are tackless, we just interpret things literally, we're doing what we were taught.
Not only that, but if an autistic kid DOESN'T do what they're told, the parents just blame it on their autism. Your situation in itself is a dilemma!
Why lie? Just make it clear that the other values punctuality. If she's interested she'll be there in time
Yes thank you, I was lazy to write same
That's what I was thinking
Yeah ??
Yep exactly. IF she is interested. Which she probably is Not. It’s a nice way to say screw you. In which people like that don’t need to be there in the 1st place.
Exactly. Set the expectations from the beginning and if they truly like each other, then they will see these differences and work something out
"It's only a lie if they have a right to know"
Growing up, I used lies to protect myself from abusive family members. By hiding the symptoms of my disability, I would avoid arguements. Lieing is a tool that I only ever used to cover up my own mistakes from those who would hurt me for them.
I would never, under any circumstances, use a lie to mess with someone else's life. With close friends and people I trust, I am open and I don't lie about anything. I allow myself to be that vulnerable because for the most part, I don't get to be vulnerable.
you lie
I am also from an abusive family when I was young, but after I am 11 years old things got better, I was physically hit and mentally depressed with smiling depression at a young age of 7 (I think I have it I'm not sure I never got therapy), yes it's cringe and clichè. I have a habit of never telling the truth to avoid punishments and I never go out, so I create backup stories of places that I visit, I have a very active imagination, it was easy to lie out of trouble and get that envy looks on others facial expression and the emotion that they express was absolutely fantastic. It's still so hard to stop telling lies now I hardly know what is a lie or what is the truth from my mouth sometimes. When I am out most words that I speak are a lie.
I feel sad for you, you have a bad family and physical disability, must be tough. Most families are just like that though hope things get better for you it wasn't really bad for my life I hope you would have a bright future like mine.
you're lying to yourself tho. tight hugs for you bro! i see myself in you.
If I was a God, I would've never punished u for that. I'm sry bt God's judgement process sometimes seems so stereotypical to me,no offense. Why this Should b called *"A Sin"* ?
In my friend group we do this all the time. When sending out invites just about everyone gets different times in the invitation. There is a constant adjustment as well, because every knows that they get different times and compensates for that. So now you have to compensate for the compensation and so on. Everyone is in a constant struggle into manipulating everyone else to their liking and it just works out anyway somehow.
That is frankly very impressive
..oh my
So professional lmao
That’s terrible. I wouldn’t be friends with people who don’t respect each other’s time.
@@md1264 that’s not what seemed to be implied but sure
Being in a family where we’ve done similar things for siblings who are almost always late, this is easy for me. I’d lie and say the date is 30 minutes earlier than it really is. I wouldn’t leave it at that though, because life isn’t so simple. I’d tell the other person how their date is normally late to things and that I told him/her an earlier time
G.g
OR give a heads up….
“My friend Carrie is usually late, please try to be patient with her and dont take it personally.”
That being said. I like where the video ended.
It’s Carrie who is in the wrong here enabling bad behavior is never good
I think this is an important point that the video glossed over when weighing the pros and cons of lying in this situation.
This scenario assumes that lying will lead to a good outcome for either of these people... you could also be wasting both their time by trying to set up two incompatible people, and building a relationship that will have lateness as a potential constant tension and conflict. They could be using that time to find people that will be more compatible for themselves.
I think those types of lies hardly ever turn out well in practice. And it reminds me of comedy series where people get in a bunch of trouble for lying and trying to cover up lies. And one could easily tell just being honest from the start would make life a lot easier for them.
Tbh I don't know many people who are that obsessed with punctuality that this would be an absolute deal breaker. Sure, it can be the straw that breaks the camel's back if you're already not so sure about someone. But if it's a great match, it'd be silly to stop at tardiness.
if carrie is actually interested in the date then she should show up on time. its not your responsibility to make sure she doesnt ruin the date.
As someone who has been on the receiving end of the lie, I say don't. The hurt impacted our relationship and that person continued to lie going forward thinking it was for the better.
I would either say that's its half an hour earlier or tell her the real time and tell Emmerson that she has a tendancy to be late
It's always better to tell the whole story and not just part of it and Emmerson doesn't necessarily have to learn the truth the hard way
I learned this myself, telling the whole truth is most of the time better than telling a simple lie. it prevents the whole "spiral of lies" thing we see in a lot of media or maybe experienced ourselves. people usually are more understanding with honesty when first given, than after finding out they've been lied to. Like the video conveys lying is a complicated manner. is it right? is it wrong? does your lie hurt anyone? does it hurt you? quite an interesting concept.
Agreed. Both parties are adults, and capable of handling the truth.
I forgot I can also contact the girl.😂Just tell her.
i live this scenario daily; my mother, since the dawn of time, has always been late. it is a personality trait for her, she is never on time for anything. we honestly believe that she has it written in her will that we cannot bring her casket into the church until after everyone has arrived and been seated, thus making her late for her own funeral.
and because of it, yes, we ALL lie to her about the time. so much so that she's caught on and manages to STILL be late. We gave her a custom invitation to my sister's wedding in which we put a different time and she STILL managed to sneak her way up the back AS WE WERE STANDING AT THE ALTER.
so we've increased the time difference from 30 to 60 minutes 😂 and will keep going up as she catches on lol
I’m a carey (also a personality trait and not philosophically) You can lie to me lol, but you should change the time increments so that I don’t cotton on and realize that you also tell me to arrive 30 mins before the actual appointment. Because I’ll start to incorporate that into my time management, haha!
Nearly all my family is this way and it drives me insane 🤷🏻♀️ I 've just accepted that I must lie if I ever want them in time for anything
My grandma used to be chronically late as well. Apparently my mom had to turn all clocks in the house 2 hours faster so that she would be on time for once for her wedding....
You should try giving her the exact time
people saying they wouldn't lie have NEVER been around someone who is chronically late. If they had, they would know that the value of the other person or the value of the appointment is not a factor in the person's lateness. The lateness is not intentional, and it's often fue to axiety or being overwhelmed with nervous anticipation about what might happen and all the things that could go wrong, and needing to prepare to avoid catastrophe.
People thinking late people are late because it's intentional...because they devalue others...SMH...so clueless. They are late because they care so much.
Eventually, you stayed at home, kept contemplating about the ethics of this issue and trying to find the best solution, so you finished reading Immanuel Kant’s Critique of Pure Reason and John Mill’s Utilitarianism, as a result, you forgot texting both Carey and Emerson - perfectly solved this moral dilemma with procrastination!
Well done🎉🎉🎉!
I wouldn’t lie about this. What if Carey decides to show up on time for once and the lie actually made the timing off. Also like others are saying it’s going to come out eventually, I think the best thing to do would be to inform Emerson that Carey has a habit of being late
I love the animation and art style very much. Simple, a bit haunting, but also cute? So many feelings.
Cute characters indeed, loved all the quiet noises, expressions, and character (who was trying to sleep) constantly swing between good and bad moods 😇
That stone faced guy was def unsettling lolol
@@syblasterm0618 i had to look away for a sec lmao
I would not lie. This is what “I” want for my friend. If the other person is late and they’re forgiven, then it’s ok. If not, then the relationship may not work anyway. It’s not up to me to “engineer” anything past the meeting.
There are billions of people in the world. If this was a life and death situation, different story.
exactly! to me in my opinion, lying is wrong no matter what the outcome is, since lying would produce what 'i' want and expect the outcome to be. To me if you lied and get a good outcome, it doesn't justify the action and you were just lucky, and i wouldn't like my friends lying to me either, i usually get really upset because most of the time i deserve to know the truth, and i feel like even it was for a good cause, it was what 'they wanted' not me, if you understand what i mean XD
@@charberryx I agree with you 100% ^__^
@@charberryx So you would tell the murderer where the girl is hiding because lying is always wrong?
@@Observa_ yeah
This case is easy af.
I would tell Carey to be on time if she really cares about her own sake and the relationship somebody suggested and let life be the way it is. I give the details of what needed to be done and they have to do well with the entailed responsibility. I can respect stances of people especially those of different culture, but since this question goes to me. I pick based on how I live, the fashion I choose to comply.
In Islam, you can lie only in 3 situations: 1) When there is direct death/harm threat to you or others 2) When two people are not speaking to each other after fight. You can say to Person A that Person B said that he felt sorry, and vice versa 3) During war
I personally resonate with this one, looks like golden balance. And if you're believer, you are not going to feel bad after you lie in those situations. Because God already took that burden from you by making rules transparent.
Of course, this does not work for non-believers. And you should figure out ethics yourself. But most people won't do that, so religion is good overall framework for standard ethics. It just needs to adapt to modern world.
TL DR: For case of Carey and Emerson, Islam prohibits lying and encourages you to find other ways. For case of murderer, Islam allows to say any lie to save lives
Wowww You have a reasonable point of view💗
I'm not religious, but the rules you have about lying actually sounds sensible to me. I'm usually against lying, even with good intentions, but that's in everyday situations and not when someone is in real danger. Those are very different.
Has Islam ever not been at war? It's a wartime religion.
@@anomymous1286 eh no it just you never ask something that not involve war ... that it
I would just tell them to go on time, i’m sure that she is excited enough for the date not to screw it up herself
Indeed
Ye
Oh trust me, that wont be enough for people like this XD
It's amazing how many layers there are to what initially seems like a simple choice. Thanks for taking us along this deep dive!
pov: no father figure
thanks for actually looking into the point of the video instead of "well I'd just handle this scenario like this"
The big question is, whether this is actually lying in the first place / you would actually need to lie to solve the problem. Time planning with huge buffers is a usual pattern for many people suffering from chronic lateness. So you could actually set the goal to be 18.00, taking into consideration that there will eventually be something holding you back, so you'll arrive on time at 18.30. Therefore, I'd answer the question with "Try to arrive at 18.00, so you have a bit of time left before the dinner begins." This reveals the fact that you're planning with a time buffer and the time you sent is earlier than the time the dinner actually takes place.
I had an orchestra teacher that would give parents the wrong time to concerts if their kid said they were always late. There was one time (I heard this secondhand) that some parents were really mad that they ended up being fifteen minutes early. But they dropped there child off fifteen minutes late from the time they had been given, so if she hadn't lied the student wouldn't have been able to be in the concert.
Plot twist, carrie shows up on time just this once
I wouldnt lie because on the off chance that she actually shows up on time, or even a bit early due to the excitement of meeting a new person, she will feel discouraged after sitting alone for too long and assume she got stood up. Instead give your other friends a heads up that she hardly makes it on time, so that he isn't discouraged aswell when she doesn't arrive on time. Being honest means everyone wins. Not sure why someone would lie about something as simple as this.
Two of my relatives are always late by at least 30 min, even on days when the whole family goes to the cemetery and temple to pay our respects. Because of their tardiness I have gotten myself into accidents and heat strokes. So everyone else including me simply gives them a timing that is one hour later than planned. The same applies to friends who are used to a slower pace. When asked I explain calmly and they accept my reasons for lying to them. Sometimes they even make fun of themselves!
If she's really my friend, I would explain to her how important it is for her to be in time and I would call her to make sure she understands
I think understand your friends and seeing them as they are is important. I also believe that true friends should be able to be honest. Maybe the real mistake is deciding that a dinner date where punctuality is important was the right choice for a fist meeting. Maybe a party with a more flexible schedule would have been a better choice. Sometimes the best choice in the case of an ethical dilemma is not get into one.
really good point imo.
I would tell Carey to be on time just this once because it's an important once in a lifetime opportunity - Emerson is her exception, giving more value to him (her time). And I would tell Emerson this side of Carey.
If Carey then shows up on time on her own accord/autonomy, and Emerson knows that Carey isn't punctual but she makes him an exception - then it's the ultimate display of love :'>
Incredible solution :,)
I like adopting the philosophy of lying to strangers only if the lie does not make them unhappy and being absolute about not lying to the people close to me. It’s important that people close to you trust you to tell the truth.
I have a friend with a PhD (it’s called something else) in Psychology whose best friend is always late. She lies to her bestie only about what time her friend should be there. I see absolutely nothing wrong with it. Yes its enabling but they’ve been friends for decades so as long as they’re both on board, no harm done. (The late one always knows that her friend “adjusts” start times accordingly.)
How does this actually work? If the late friend is aware that her friend is pushing back the start time by say 15 minutes, won't she automatically adjust her lateness because she knows she's going to be late? If it works, why can't she just lie to herself? What's the difference if you know you're being lied to?
@@Exachad the mind is tricky... And in my case (i'm chronically late like in the video) i sometimes DO lie to myself to improve the chance of not being TOO late... Sure there will be some cognitive dissonance since i will be thinking two contradicting things at the same time, and even if i know that i still "actually" have more time, there's an extra pressure that makes me try to go for the earlier time, thus reducing the amount i'll be late by. Doesn't always work, but sometimes it does.
Also, having someone ELSE tell me the time, even though i can be reasonably sure it's very likely earlier than it should be, is way more powerful than if i were trying to do the same thing by myself.
Another mine solution, is to see if the guy is ok with the fact that the girl is always late. If he is ok with the choice of the girl, the importance of the lie doesn't exists anymore. The dilemma is resolved.
No one is okay with lateness
@@luisandrade2254 almost-true... What about those who are ok with?! For example our girl. She is ok with lateness.
@@ionutolteanu824 she is okay with being late but probably not with others doing that to her
@@luisandrade2254 Indeed!
That's exactly what I was thinking. By the third party considering lying, they're assuming that Emerson will have a problem with slight tardiness just because the third party does. Like what if Emerson is chill about lateness and he shows up just as late, or even later, than Carey and then they bond over their similar ideology about lateness? That could be a good thing and a lie would also mess up their first impressions.
There’s a difference between lying, false impressions and letting things happen in a good way. Setting the time 30 mins before your friend’s arrival is not lying! It’s just adjusting to suit the situation. It’s closer to letting things happen than to lying. Mostly lying is vocal or written, not based on plans, me thinks.
This basically summed up everything I learned from watching “The Good Place.”
Hiding Carey lack of punctuality by not telling Emerson that "She is always late to everything" is also lying. The correct answer is to damn the consequences and tell Carey that dinner is at the real time, and also tell her, frankly, "you're always late to everything. Be on time this time."
That, and also tell Emerson she's got a tendency to be late
Not telling the truth = lying? Well then guess 'the right to be silent" should be renamed "the right to lie"
@@xXJ4FARGAMERXx Yes! The right to remain silent is totally lying. It's the right to not admit that you've done something illegal. That totally is lying
By keeping secret information you know is true, how is that any different than lying? In this example, knowing Carey's tendency to always be late and not tell Emerson, then you're effectively lying for Carey by presenting her in a untrue manner.
Or this: Let your friends find their own relationships (and/or make their own mistakes) and stop meddling at all.
Agreed!
Tbh if you just think "Hey friend x is looking for someone like y and y is looking for someone like x. I should tell them about each other and see if they want to give it a shot. Oh look they do, how dandy" it's not that bad, you're just sensitive
@Benjamin if that was the case, why was i their "friend" in the first place? o.O
I understand the lesson being taught but in this example i think it’s easiest to tell Carrie the right time and tell Emerson that she could be late. There are no lies and Emerson understands the circumstance beforehand.
I had a similar situation, chronically late (by hours) friends were coming to a concert so I told them it was an hour before it was, they arrived right on time and laughed when I told them of my lie.
It's not applicable, cuz it was between you and other person, and this example from video is about 3rd party lying. In your case, i don't see harm, in the example i don't see point in lying.
I would absolutely lie lol. I have chronically late friends and this is really the only solution. Telling them not to be late simply won't do it. I would also tell the other friend that Kerry has a tendency to be late. They deserve to know.
seriously. might lie but would inform the friend they are meeting that youve told them a different time because of this trait. i cannot keep friends who are late like this. i need people to be on time. 5 - 10 minutes is ok, but chronically 30minutes is unacceptable to me.
Can’t you tell the truth and say Carey has a tendency to be late?
@@daforkgaming3320 doesn't solve the problem of the actual lateness.
@@MJ-98 yes but Emerson doesn’t have to find it out the hard way. What if he hates when people are late ? Instead, just tell carrey to be on time just for this date at least and tell Emerson that she is always late and it’s not because of the date or something.
If she is going to treat other people's time with disrespect, then maybe the relationship isn't going to work out anyway.
As someone who is chronically late: if we're good friends and I found out you lied about the time, I'd laugh about it and maybe even apreciate that you prevented me from being embarassingly late.
I don't want to be late, I don't do it on purpose and it's not because I don't care. I have trouble estimating the time I need to get ready, travel time,... and there's always some last minute stuff that I forgot. I try but more often than not I fail and the only thing I've found that works is by telling myself I need to leave earlier than I actually do. But it's not always easy to trick myself so having someone else trick me is not necessarily a bad thing.
But do you think it is true friendship if they stripped you of this right to be late? You should truly be ashamed of yourself for not wanting to manage your time better and intentionally deceiving your date. Shame on you
The answer is that I won't lie and tell them the time to arrive for the date. If Carry misses the date, that's his responsibility and he will learn a lesson from a wasted chance if he is to be late. Certain things only stick to people when personal experiences nail it down. If his date is understanding of his weakness then they should work together to solve, your job was to set them up together not to workout their relationship.
Do not lie.
Message to Carey "YOU should get there at 6pm."
No lie told, factual information given.
Yeah, since when scheduling people to get to somewhere earlier is a lie?
In fact, if I know a person is always 20 minutes late, it would be a lie to tell them they should plan to be there at 6:30, and the truth is to tell them to *plan to be* there at 6:10. Same with how airlines, railway, events, etc... instruct you to be there x amount of time before the scheduled departure.
Imagine Carey arrived at 6:00 PM on time and waited for Emerson to arrive,but they come at 6:30 and the date is actually at 6:30 and Carey got angry and just left the restaurant just before Emerson arrives. Welp.. 👀
Why would she get angry if she literally does it all the time? Couldn’t she relate? I mean, if she’s always late, I bet she makes people wait for her all the time. She probably doesn’t think there’s anything wrong with that. It’s usually “punctual people” who mind waiting.
I am almost always late, and sometimes I have been told by friends to meet up at 18 when the actual meeting time was 18:30
Usually as soon as I came they told me the actual meeting time was different and I'm happy I was on time for that (or just 5 min late).
I personally don't mind it most of the times, cause it's a friend helping me balance a weak spot of mine.
My entire life my mother has been late to everything. As a child I was always the last to be picked up. And we are talking 30-60 minutes after practice or what ever I was at had ended.
Telling someone that is chronically late an earlier time is something I have done since I was a twelve. People like Carrie lose their ability to make decisions like this. You tell her to be there at 6 and if Emerson is smart and likes her he will do the same.
Just tell them: one of them might have blue eyes, dilemma solved!
I believe in the Terry Pratchett philosophy regarding lying.
Little lies, like Santa and the tooth fairy, prepare humans for the bigger lies they need to deal with when they grow up. Lies like Love, honor and courage. All fantasies that make life bearable.
I disagree that love, honor, and courage are lies. Sure, they aren't as perfect or as idealistic as we might hope, love can be very rocky at times, someone supposedly "honorable" might do dishonorable things, and people with courage are often very afraid, etc. But to say that they are lies is an overstatement. Love, honor, and courage absolutely do exist, even if they don't necessarily exist in the same way we idealize them to.
@@bobwilson679 "YOU THINK SO? THEN TAKE THE UNIVERSE AND GRIND IT DOWN TO THE FINEST POWDER AND SIEVE IT THROUGH THE FINEST SIEVE AND THEN SHOW ME ONE ATOM OF JUSTICE, ONE MOLECULE OF MERCY. AND YET-Death waved a hand. AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED."
- Death, in the book Hogfather. By Terry Pratchett.
Remember the truth might be out there but the lies are always in your head.
Man, Terry Pratchett was really one of a kind... he was really ahead of his time and mastered the line between being respectful and irreverent.
I think the setup is the issue, as this particular scenario involves two people who aren't you, and the worries are all hypothetical. Meanwhile, I constantly lie to the people in my life who are late so they'll show up/be ready nearly on time, and lose no sleep over it.
This is hilarious to me because growing up in Nigeria there’s this concept of African time where event organizers would announce the start of the show 2-3 hours before it was actually meant to commence. So that when people would arrive late they would always arrive “on time”. But some people would still arrive late even if 😅
Why would you even want this relationship to start if they're gonna have it bad because of lateness. It's not even about lateness specifically. If anything could go wrong the first time, it will eventually go wrong while down the road. There's no point trying to fight it.
If the relationship was to work out, I'm sure the couple would be perfectly happy that you lied about it, and being that its hardly going to harm anyone, instead, totally toe opposite and after she appears 'on time' once, she might make more of an effort to do it again and again
@@ladislavj6705 well, after a while if someone was continually late to see me id start to question if I really was as important to them as they say, but if they moved in together, your right, and lateness wouldn't be an issue
I really like the point about paternalism. I personally do not appreciate when people lie to me "for my own good." I want to make my own decisions and be in charge of my life. Even if the lie may be beneficial to me at the moment, it is important to know the truth and learn how to deal with the truth without a crutch (the lie). I would just emphasize to Carey that punctuality is extremely important to Emmerson and that, in my opinion, first impressions can have a big impact. I would be letting Carey decide what they want to do based on this truthful information I gave them.
1:43 Bad example. There's a big difference between _withholding_ / _not disclosing_ truth and _lying_ If someone asks me if I'm planning a surprise birthday party for them (and I am), am I "lying" if I ignore their question or respond, "If I were, why would I tell you?" Of course not.
My wife has lied to me for this exact reason and I have thanked her for it.
She hooked you up with another girl? Damn
@@crazy75able Lol. Ok, not the EXACT same reason.
In my opinion the Utilitarian perspective is always the just one
You just need to take in the holistic view. If you’re lying to spare someone’s feelings you could be setting them up for failure or making yourself unhappy, in that case utilitarianism still works, you need to tell the truth to prevent a bad future outcome. Lying is only bad when it hurts people or causes turmoil, a complicated lie is just a source of stress, a simple lie can be useful.
"Everyone lies" - House
also lying can be fun
My mother has carrie's problem- She's constantly late, though less out of a lack of care and more about an inability to keep track of time. She's actually asked me and my dad to lie to her and tell her things are earlier than they actually are, otherwise she'll end up late. It doesn't always work, but it is pretty helpful for her nonetheless.
Now that I’m thinking about the situation, trying to see other’s angels, I would definitely not lie. However, I realise that in real life I wouldn’t even hesitate to lie. It became a habit for me and I can’t help sugarcoat everything… I’m usually on the fence when I had to think about lying or not, but in the moment…. I don’t even think about it. One thing that I learnt living like that is you should always be ready to reap what you sow
As someone who's _always_ late, for at least like 5 minutes, I would've tried my best to be on time the _first_ time because of *_first impressions_* -- that's what this is missing. My friends are used to my tardiness now, but first impressions are vital and can either make or break a relationship from ever forming, so Carey's non-puctuality should be "protected" for the first date, and then they can hopefully discuss it slowly over time.
But some people are brutal when it comes to tardiness, like my old high school English teacher, who would literally lock the classroom door just as the bell rang, and anyone who was even 5 minutes late were locked outside... but younger people are more understanding, in my experience 😅
if I had a teacher like that I’d play games if I was late.☺️🤨🤣😂
Yes, and since some people value punctuality far more than others, it's unfair to trick them into having feelings for some who is tardy. Like you and your English teacher should clearly never date. That would lead to decreased happiness.
@@lavinialadlass9432 if only I had a fraction of your confidence at that age. I was riddled with insecurities and had a lot of trouble adjusting to high school with virtually no friends :/
Everyone was sort of "afraid" of that teacher because he was so strict, despite being really talented at what he taught. There was a water sink near the door in our classroom, and once a classmate just simply tried going towards it during his lecture, and he stopped him and asked him what he was doing, almost as if he was about to commit a cardinal sin or something 😅
@@zainmushtaq4347 It is pretty rude to always be late though. I've been the one forced to wait, and it is infuriating after a while. I had a friend, who I'm no longer friends with, that habitually had not even left their house 30 minutes after we were supposed to meet up. Sure, 5 minutes isn't a whole lot. But it adds up.
Nowadays I don't lie anymore. I just refuse to answer, if I don't want someone to know the truth.
In this example I would tell Emerson to expect Carey to be late. He will therefore not be disappointed if she is actually late.
I personally judge weather its okay to lie based off of how the person would react to finding out the truth. if they would laugh it of as unimportant, or (in the murderer case) you don't trust them to respond appropriately, only then its okay to lie.
Kant also points out there are alternate options, like telling your friend to turn up on time out of politeness, and telling the other that they are chronically late so bring a book.
I would tell her the meeting is at six. Had to do it already while traveling with some friends. Not all people have the same time perception 😄
My family does this to me and we all do it to my mum. I actually love it. It was manageable before but especially after having a kid, my brain just has not caught up to the fact that everything will take 4x longer 😅
Once you said she is always 30 minutes late I already said tell her it’s at 6
Same
That’d be lying.
Op, now ik what ur saying- not what I ment- since it’s lying
거짓말에 대한 다양한 철학자들의 견해 잘 봤습니다. 원래 거짓말은 절대 하면 안된다고 믿고 있었는데, 이 영상을 보니 예외 상황이 있을 수도 있다는 생각이 들었습니다. 좋은 영상 감사합니다!
I have a friend who in her life is always late, never on time or early where it always lead to worse situation. Even left by her flight multiple times. Way back, she was warned to go to work on time or else she will be fired, so I ended up changing the time in her phone and watch. She came to work on time and was shocked. When she discovered what I did, she expects that her clock was in advance bc I tampered with it and ended up being later than usual lol
This is indeed a dilemma, in the case of this relationship i wouldn't lie personally. I have been guilty of something similar irl tho. My mother is always late.. so when i need her to drive me somewhere i tell her that i have to do X thing 15 minutes earlier than what it actually is. I have now begun to question that a little
Is it a lie if you say you _need_ to be there 15 minutes earlier than the start time, but leave out that the thing starts 15 minutes after you _need_ to be there?
My first reaction was to lie, but upon further thought this has a potential to cause a lot of issues. What if Carey actually is on time because she is interested? Then she is upset because I lied and her time was wasted. If Carey is late then Emerson's time is wasted. I would tell the same time to both of them but make it clear to both parties the others preferences on punctuality. This gives them a chance to not meet up at all, and lets them choose on what is important. If Carey is late, then Emerson can choose whether to waste his time waiting.
they really turned a simple situation into a mental breakdown of discussions
i literally do this all the time with my chronically late friends. If we have to leave by 6:30, i tell them we have to leave at 6:00!
Lets appreciate them for this creative video.
My solution is to just say "It's at 18:30, I'll pick you up and drive you there" to Carry, and then tell Emerson what the plan is. That way I'm not lying, Carey gets there on time, and Emerson will even have the chance to drive Carey home (If I can't take her home myself cuz I'm obviously not going to stay there and be the third wheel)
You arrive to pick up Carry, and she is running late.
I have a consequentialist position on lying, but I still would not like under these circumstances. The relationship *will* be strained by their inability to arrive on time to anything. Instead, I would simply do what I can to force him to be on time if he accepts the date. If he fails, that is on him, and if he succeeds, then there is clearly hope for his improvement.
Personally, I would tell Carey that the time of the date is earlier, but then contact Emerson and let him know that Carey tends to be super late more often than not, and to be aware of that detail if they plan on any follow up dates, as I won't be there to help out if things go south in regards to time management. It ensures that Carey isn't late this single instance, while also making sure that both parties can adapt to this issue in the near future.
I would tell Emerson about Carey's lateness and depending on they reaction I would advise them to make an effort to arrive on time (though how can someone that is always late be a good person are they late at work, on job's interviews, medical appointments, dates, parties?)
Great content and animation aside, I love how the narrator refers to Carey as they most of the time.
I agree-it's a shame no one in the comments is acknowledging it.
The clarity of this content is exceptional. A book with corresponding material was a major life event for me. "Game Theory and the Pursuit of Algorithmic Fairness" by Jack Frostwell
I will not lie, this went over my head the 1st time I watched this video.
After thirty years, I’m occasionally telling my wife a wrong time for dinners with friends; and friends are often giving us the wrong time since everyone knows we would be late. And this is in Italy, where showing up on time for social occasions is considered slightly rude and would usually end up with you helping setting the table.
I would not even consider this as lying.
Well, Italians aren't exactly known for their honesty:D
Lmao watching this when you *are* the chronically late person is hilarious. I encourage people to lie to me about the time for very important things. It’s even a joke amongst us that I’m going to be late for my own wedding and so I’ll be told my wedding starts an hour early so I can get there on time. I get that this is a very specific situation, and not everyone reacts the same way I do or my loved ones do, but it’s just hilarious to have that perspective watching this
I have a friend who is usually 1 hour late, I usually tell her the time we are meeting is an hour earlier than it really is. I don't see this as an issue, however I know her VERY well and have known her for years and I wouldn't recommend doing this to a newer relationship.
I've essentially done this before with my friend. He's ALWAYS late. One time we had plans to go out around 6:30pm and I would pick him up. I chose 6:30pm as the time to tell him because I knew I wanted to leave by 7pm. At 6:25pm or so, I sent him a text saying "Just pulled up to your place" even though I was still at home getting ready. He replies "Sounds good, be down in a few minutes." I didn't actually get to his house until essentially 7pm, and he still hadn't come out yet. But only a couple minutes later, he did. So instead of me waiting in the car for a half hour, I only waited two minutes. And I told him all about my plan when he got in the car.
" The more you lie the truth will be covered with it and the time will comes that there's no distinction anymore to lie and Truth."
- Me
No
-me
What? The more you life? I don't understand what you're trying to say.
??????what????????
Done guys I edited it. The damn autocorrect
Haha I'm kinda like Carey, not because I want to be late but because I have a very caothic work life. I am absolutely certain my friends lie to me about the time I should be there but I don't mind at all😂.
"I think that you should try and leave by 6:00", is the best response in my opinion.
Reject lying
Return to Living truthfully to your emotions and values
Only then, the happiness produced at the end would be pure, untained
For me, a person who's late to literally everything, it depends on what I'm up to beforehand. If someone tells me it was 10 minutes earlier than it actually was and I end up getting there right at the real time, I would thank them for it. If they tell me it's 30 minutes earlier and I get there way early and I had important stuff to do beforehand that I couldnt finish I'd be mad. So if I was doing this to myself, I would lie, but I'd only lie for a few minutes earlier, like 5-15. That way if they get there 20-30 minutes late it's not all that bad, but its too little time to take away an opportunity to do something important beforehand.
This really isn’t an ethical dilemma for most people. It can be easily resolved without lying.
Truth only shine like a diamond when it contains lies.
woah only 10 seconds ago
If you think they would fit together: Talk the truth. If they are interested in eachother: exchange phone numbers. Step away. Let them figure out if their interests and habits fit together. Never start a relationship with a lie. Sooner or later it will come out. And most important: You want to be loved for who you are. Not what you seem to be.
"The dinner is at 6:00. If you're not there at 6:05, I'm leaving"
I've been in situations like these, with people that mean far, far more to me than what this video describes. It hurts. It causes you physical pain and discomfort. But if they're not there on time, or not replying to you on time, or keep putting you off, as much as you wanna make the relationship work, the other person obviously doesn't respect you, and without respect, you'll never get what you wanted out of the relationship anyway. Trust me. Learned this one the HARD way
always fall in love with this animator! very impressive style!
Lying to protect someone's feelings _doesn't._ They're inevitably going to find out the truth eventually, and when they do, they're probably going to be more upset about the lie than about whatever you were trying to protect them from.
The murder example is a strawman, _saying nothing_ is an option.
In the case of dealing with a murderer, I think it may still be justified and maybe necessary to lie. Consider that they may be threatening you as well and its not really an option to "say nothing" if you want to either live or avoid torture. But distracting them to got somewhere else could maybe save both. Protecting someone in danger is fully justified reason to lie, but lying is still ALMOST always wrong, even when you mean well. And probably wont work as well as planned anyway. But just about all immoral actions have a few situations where they are moral or "okay" because of the necessity. Another example would be stealing because you or even more your family would otherwise starve. And killing the person who was trying to seriously harm or kill someone is also way more justified than just "normal" murder.
Let's w a moment to appreciate how much effort he puts into his contact to entertain 👀