I like how EA says "For a better charging experience we have reduced the output to 350 amps instead of 350 KW as advertised" what a load of horse bleep!
I bought a Model 3 LR last July and your road trip videos with your Tesla gave me the confidence to go forward with the Tesla, keep up the great videos, thanks!
Great video! On a side note, Voltage can actually be seen as the SPEED (electromotive force or pressure) at which electrons travel through a conductor. Amperage can be seen as the AMOUNT (current) of electrons that travel through that conductor at a given time. Watts is a combination of these two, it reflects actual power as expressed in Watts Law "P = E x I" (E=Voltage, I=amps, P=watts). Look at the conductors as an "Electron Highway". If the electrons (cars) go slow on the highway (lower voltage), the amount of cars on the highway at any given time (amps), needs to be higher to reach the target Power (watts), which is limited by the current rating of the conductor (AWG gauge). But, if the cars go faster (higher voltage), then the highway flows better, there will be less cars and less congestion on the highway at a given time (amps), and we'll be able to reach the same amount of Power (watts) without the need for a bigger highway (conductor). Example of Watts Law to calculate this limit you talk about in the video: 400v x 350a = 140kW ...... but 800v x 350a = 280kW ..... and assuming they raise the 350 amps limit to 500a on the same 400v architecture: 400v x 500a = 200kW ..... but even more amazing would be 800v architecture with full 500a current: 800v x 500a = 400kW. Sorry for nerding out on such a long comment!!
As a long term Tesla (2015) owner and now added a Taycan I can't say how disappointing the charging experience is on EA. Just took a trip to Florida Panhandle and the EA station had one 350 unit down charger down in Mississippi but Pensacola had only one 150kW working even though the App said that they are all available. It was like that for my return trip 7 days later and had to wait for the one unit to be available. I sure hope for Tesla to open up the SC network here in NA like they said they will.
@@outsideguy3633 I also have no problems doing long rang trips in my X from the Oregon coast to New Orleans twice per year. The user experience between the supercharger network and EA experience is night and day.
Power is the same regardless of if you have 400v or 800v at the charging station, if the vehicle has a 400v system or 800v system. Power = voltage x current, or P = I * E. Higher voltage allows the current to be lower, which reduces cable size requirements and lowers heat loss, and voltage loss due to heat. High amounts of current flow produces heat, so increasing voltage, lowers current flow, and heat losses, but power doesn’t change. This is why you pay by the kilowatt, because power is not effected by changing voltage. Higher voltage is better for heat management, and is cheaper due to not requiring large conductors, but the gain in charging speed is pretty minor from 400v to 800v, unless the charge current is also increased, which again, would increase heat losses.
I'm hoping the charging lot in Winslow was on a corner. Then you could say you were charging on a corner, in Winslow, Arizona... I'll be here all this week folks!
I do this drive the other way and the current way to go to school in Prescott. Good to see that it can be done electrically! I'm excited to do this drive in June to go back to CO for the summer!
I think the Rivian really surprised the market with it performance. Could I ever justify it fully spec.ed at just under $100k, no way. But it is quite a wonderful truck.
@@justinstewart3248 it’s funny you should say that. I actually traded it in back in May for a model Y performance. It was at its peak value so it did work out for me 😃
As it is typical to Tesla Bjorn videos which initially inspired this channel a huge spot of a bug smashed on windshield is plaguing the video. That is not a problem of Kyle since usually at gas stations one can use special windshield cleaners while at charging stations everything is dry. I salute the approach to EV charging from Norway and UK where the gas stations have charging stations installed.
On the EA / ABB charger limitation. Pull up the datasheet from the manufacturer and it seems to indicate that they're limited to 375A if they're connected to a single power cabinet. If they're connected to a dual power cabinet it says they're capable of 500A and both handles are usable on a single stall, I assume split between the two up to 500A.
I bought an EV6 based on your videos, Tesla Bjørn’s and a couple others. Thanks for nerding out on the details, it matters for those of us playing in this space.
How are the rivian headlights? Now that I’m in my 40s, headlight performance makes such a big difference. I can barely see anything w my Ioniq 5. Probably the worst headlights of any cars I’ve had in the past 15 yrs. My husbands polestar has amazing headlights.
Long-distance travel in an EV is still a pain. They have you covered if you have a Tesla, but otherwise, what a hassle! It is going to take time before charging becomes faster and more reliable. I am glad there are people like you that show us what we are in for on long trips if we own an EV. Now that EVs are being produced in more significant numbers, we will need a more robust charging infrastructure for the average American to consider an EV as their primary vehicle. Hopefully, government initiatives and funding will help to resolve these issues.
@@oisiaa Agreed, we are still a few years away from a genuinely gas-station-like experience with electrics. Even the Ford CEO acknowledged the other day that the charging infrastructure sucks. Tesla remains the champ in charging, they really have no competition. For everyday driving around town, EVs are great and as long as the distances are less than 200 miles and a home charger is available. But for long trips, the hassle of charging and the insecurity of the chargers working is just not worth it.
EV charging has gotten significantly better since Kyle made this video. Much of the Tesla Supercharger network will open to Rivians and other CCS vehicles in 2024. Furthermore Rivian has since installed multiple fast chargers along this route that allow charging power over 200 kW. As a side note, here’s some food for thought: That tall mountain in the video at (22:38 and 22:50) is the tallest mountain in Arizona. The wonderful, historic city of Flagstaff, 85k residents, one of Arizona’s three public universities, northern Arizona’s only level one trauma hospital sit at the base of that mountain. The mountain is sacred to multiple indigenous tribes and is home to Arizona’s best ski area. The mountain has unfortunately burned significantly (about 25%) from multiple, major, catastrophic wildfires over the last 15 years resulting in floods unlike anything Flagstaff has seen in its 140 year history. Experts attribute these recent, frequent, catastrophic fires and flooding to climate change. Many Flagstaff neighborhoods, schools, and businesses have since been inundated by annual flooding as a result of the fires, not to mention the devastation to the natural environment. Flagstaff’s flood control district just released a study estimating the economic impact of future catastrophic fires on this mountain are expected to cost at least another 2 BILLION dollars and flood thousands more Flagstaff homes. Flagstaff and the many other people and places all over the world are being devastated by climate change. A few extra minutes of charging on a road trip to help solve this problem is truly a small price to pay in reality. I’ve been road tripping EVs since 2017 and charging (especially in Tesla compatible NACS vehicles) is a piece of cake now.
@@e2dub I have been to Flagstaff and it is indeed a beautiful place. I am glad to hear that your charging experience has been good using the Tesla chargers. Now what we need are some affordable EVs with decent range and we will be off to the races.
The thing I love about road tripping my Tesla Model 3 is that I can get a peak of 250kW and the car only uses about 240Wh/mile so my charging stops are stupidly short. I can typically hop chargers with 12-15 minutes per stop.
As I understand it, the cover for the bed leaks, right? The Rivian looks like a nearly perfect EV - power, comfort, space, range - it has it all ( I would love a 7KW or more inverter since it has such a large battery), wish I could get one, lol - Thanks for your review
Too bad you passed through Wagon Mound NM at night. You missed seeing one of the great landmarks of the old Santa Fe Trail. It's real easy to see during daylight - a mesa resembling a Conestoga wagon that was the last landmark on the Trail before reaching the end in Santa Fe, and from which the town got its name. I rode in a bicycle tour from Santa Fe to central Missouri (not on an EV bicycle!) and we spent a night camping at the high school there. I had to laugh at your charging stop since that Conoco station is where we stopped and picked up beer to drink (recharging?) when we arrived at the camping spot. But that was before the EA chargers were installed :) Enjoyed going on the ride with you! Hope to go on more.
Just ordered an Ionic 5 yesterday watched all you videos and went to a dealer and they had one that I could test drive. Rwd lr......I couldn't get over how fast it went!! I didn't even put it in sports mode...will have to wait for it but that is OK.
Good news regarding charging infrastructure on the AZ part of this route: Rivian has recently installed RAN fast chargers in both Flagstaff and Holbrook AZ, so 200+ kWh charging speeds are available to Rivians on that route between PHX and Gallup ⚡️⚡️⚡️ Also, because of the Holbrook RAN, driving that route in a Rivian you should now be able to take the faster route northeast out of Phoenix to Holbrook via Payson AZ, instead of going due north to Flagstaff. According to ABRP this shortcut now shaves nearly an hour off of the trip.
You are officially my favorite Nerd, "lovingly stated :-)" I love all your videos. I still don't understand all that kilowatt talk though, but you make these videos fun to watch and I don't even own a EV (LOL). Keep up the great work and I will see you on your next one. Thank you for all you do!!!
EDIT: I jumped the gun on your explanation, which was right on. Voltage is the pipe? I would potentially disagree. According to Ohm's law, voltage is represented by "E" which is allegedly short for Electromotive Force. I would say voltage, in a discussion about charging would maybe be explained as pressure. The charger, like and air compressor inflating a tire, must overcome the voltage or 'pressure' of the pack for current to flow. The pipe analogy would maybe be represented by current, or amperage...speed of air through hose? lol. The combination of current and voltage results in wattage or.... CFM? I dunno. Just spouting stuff I recall from electronics class in HS. Thanks for the vids!
Love the breakdown on the amperage limitations! Super dumb issue to have haha. Honestly I hope that, as we start transitioning more to EV's, the government starts requiring standardization between pack voltage "tiers" and charger station capabilities. I doubt it would happen for a long time, but the charging infrastructure is reallyyy holding things back.
I can tell you were getting punchy at the end. lol Driving at night is tough but being past tired and driving is worse. Glad you made it back. Thanks for the ride along. Be well.
Dumb question - any links to driving montage music? Most I can capture with a song search but google shrugged its shoulders at the one used for the last three trips and I need that in my favorites for work!
Hey there - my wife has a Polestar which we love although I wish Fort Collins had an Electrify America station. I have an R1T on order and am hoping the config I picked (which is supposedly being prioritized) means I'll get my paws on the Rivian before the end of the year. Will keep an eye out for you around town as I've not seen a Rivian "in the flesh" yet...
Where's the stats? It looks like the performance was about the same as an F-150 ($4 gas) but with 2-3 hours of refueling tme. Your enthusiasm is getting in the way of a factual review.
18:59 With that sort of elevation increase, I like shooting for Winslow with Flagstaff as a backup, but I just sort of wing my charging stops on road trips anyway. 24:30 And this explains why I keep arriving places with less than 3% battery...
It's almost like EA begrudgingly had to install chargers as part of a lawsuit or something instead of wanting the best user experience for the customer...... Really hope they improve!!
At least they go through the trouble of placing chargers where you need them to complete long-distance road trips compared to other networks. The other networks have lots of chargers in cities, but are nearly useless for road trips. For getting out of town, Electrify America is essentially the only DCFC option available.
@@ab-tf5fl Haha yea that's true. It's sad that the bar is that low that simply putting chargers where you need them immediately means EA is the best of the worst.
Yes Out of Spec Motoring is the reason I decided on the Ionic 5 rather than the EV6, as you pointed out it drives great and offers better space than the EV6, something that we want in an EV! My hit is that I had to release my EV6 which I reserved, came in about back 4 weeks ago and now my Ionic has been pushed from May delivery to October. But my EV6 in Canada comes with a dark interior no light interior option, go figure Kia, we in Canada have very dark winters and could use a little lighter interior! option? The other thing is the Hyundai dealer is giving me about what I paid for my purchased new 2019 Kia Soul EV Luxury after the Federal EV incentives, Kia not so much even though I bought a 2020 Soul EV Limited from the same Kia dealer, go figure! At least both dealers are sticking to MSRP!
You know I was very interested in the cars themselves but this channel really disappoints not even one minute in and they’re already showing their biases
43:35 I've been seeing that happen recently. I pulled in front of a charger that appeared available, but the EA app listed it as unavailable. I couldn't even swipe to activate the charger on the app, but just having the app open and using the NFC in my phone activated the charger without issue.
10:00 Wait, three out of four EA chargers are working!?!? I was told that that's not possible! 14:22 Wait, four out of four? That's definitely unpossible!
Yeah, a lot of people like to complain about EA a lot when it is usually user error and not the charger's fault if there's an issue. At the Wagon Mound charger, some people with T-Mobile complain that they can't activate in the app with no cell signal -- they don't know they can put their phone with NFC up to the charger.
Seems to me that when you are limited by charger current you would be better off not discharging so deeply as you would get more power delivered at a slightly higher battery voltage.
Just want to say that I appreciate the Rivian's lock sound, and I hope other auto makers will start doing something similar. In the meantime, I ask drivers of other vehicles to turn off their "honk on lock" feature as a courtesy to their neighbors, especially when arriving home late at night. There is no need to wake up everybody on the block to "announce" that you are home and that your car is locked.
If you were going 65 instead of 80, how much further would you go and having to charge fewer times make up for the difference in speed? I'm guessing higher speed with more charging still gets you there faster. Pity time is such a overwhelming need as so much energy is wasted at that speed.
If you drive, say, 200mi at 65 it will take 3 hours and 4 minutes. If you drive 200 at 80 it will take about 34 minutes less, at 2 hours and 30 mins. At 1000mi the difference is nearly 3 hours. That’s a fair chunk of time for charging.
Most times the charger replenishes faster than the car uses up extra battery for higher speed, so it's worthwhile to go faster and charge more. You can model it with ABetterRoutePlanner, go to settings (top left 3-bar) menu, Speed, set Reference Speed>100%, and re-plan... see what difference it makes. All depends what folks want to do, arrive faster but charge/spend more, or enjoy scenery :)
While I’m not a fan of these gigantic, heavy trucks (I’d rather see their batteries used for a small fleet of smaller EVs) if that’s what helps push consumers towards more efficient transport, let’s go
I did some calculations on the hummev. And if they used the 212kwh pack for 3 average model 3 sized sedans instead. Driven average miles for a sedan annually. It still works out better for the environment(less total materials in 1 hummev vs 3 model 3 or bolts)to just build that 1 hummev that is in the segment which pollutes the most and gets driven for the most miles instead. Vs the 3 smaller model 3 or bolt style evs. The average hummev will take 800-1200 gallons of fuel right off the board&a couple oil changes. Plus ev trucks will even if slowly convert more of those who are still in the "hurr durr never catch me in an ev type's" Once their hyper masculine Mack daddy buddies have one, they will also capitulate. Resistance is futile EVolve or get assimilated. 😀
At 70 MPGe, it's more efficient than a Taycan (68 MPGe - and only slightly worse than an XC40 or Mach-E GT at 79 and 82 MPGe, two actually-realistic other choices for us) for daily driving, *AND* it can replace my old dirty diesel pickup for hauling. That's a win for me. (I also have an Arcimoto FUV with its 173 MPGe for truly efficient commuting.)
Love The Rivian. Great Truck. Thanks for the trip but I hope you don't mind a little criticism. You are too technically detailed in your charging reviews. Station after station the same Jargon with the Kwh, bah, bah, bah. I think most people including myself care about one thing. How many miles and how much did it COST.?? I followed your first 3 stops and roughly calculated you traveled 331 miles at a cost of About $78. Roughly $.24 a mile. That is slightly MORE than an ICE car getting 20 MPG @ $4.50 a gallon!! Where are all the Savings?? Especially when you also have to add in all the time wasted finding and waiting for the Chargers to finish.
i see where the new hummers take 4 days to charge on regular house current lol so was this trip based on one day being 24hrs since you must have had to spend considerable time charging
In many states the fees are based on price per min of charging. By limiting the charging speed they can collect much more money because it takes that much longer. All charging fees should be based on the energy delivered not time charging.
That’s is one aspect where the government weights and measures division should make it a rule that it is illegible to charge by time and only charge by kWh
@@fuckthisksksjjksdfjd Depends on the situation. Time-based charging may be appropriate in urban environments where parking is limited. Otherwise, you'll have people plugging in who don't even need the charge, simply for access to the parking space. Of course, at the small-town WalMart chargers shown in this video, what I said is definitely *not* an issue. These should all be per-kWh.
I wish we had something like EA in Canada. Barely any CCS fast charging. Hopefully by the time I’m ready to buy a Rivian the charging network will catch up. For now, I’m very happy with my model 3; you just can’t beat the supercharger network.
I paused the video to see how long the truck needs to charge and the costs. Charging the Rivian is expensive period. It also takes way too long to charge to the point where it’s a serious inconvenience. Who wants to wait an hour anywhere and not get a full charge. Which leads to another issue. Because you can’t fully charge the truck you will have to charge more frequently which means you’ll be spending more money in charging fees.
Trucks will always be expensive to charge because they are less energy efficient than cars. The same is true with gas-powered trucks - expecting the Rivian to match the energy efficiency of a Bolt is like expecting a gas-powered truck to match the energy efficiency of a Prius. From a trip-time standpoint, lower efficiency is inherently bad, since it lowers the effective charging speed you get out of each kW level. For instance, a 2017 Chevy Bolt plugged into the 50kW Moab charger is gaining range-miles much more quickly than a Rivian plugged into that same 50kW charger, in spite of the Rivian being a far more expensive vehicle. Ditto for all forms of level 2 charging, even with the Rivian supporting higher amperage. For an even more extreme case, imagine an Electrify America with a Hummer charging at 350kW side by side a Bolt charging at 50kW. It's Kyle's 1 mi/kWh on the Hummer is accurate, the rate that the two vehicles will accumulate range-miles is nearly identical.
So, according to the sticker on the charging station it can do up to 920VDC at up to 500A. Does that mean that in theory a car could be made that could charge at up to 460 kilowatts? What sort of limitations exist in the current 800V EVs (Taycan, E-Tron GT, Hyundai) that limit them to 250-270 kilowatts?
All the Rivian coverage has been super helpful. I'm in the queue, but likely won't get mine until 23. I think I'm going to have to keep a gas vehicle for the long road trips though, especially as these chargers get more and more crowded.
In the power cabinets they need to install the other power module on the 350kw units so that the 400 volt cars can be more like the the 800v guys. So I was explained to by EA that they are currently catering the 350kw units to the 800v vehicles for now. It is a combination of getting the stations online sooner (supply contractions/availability) and to save cost in the interim. As more big pack 400vs get on the road they will add the other power module to the 500a capable dispensers. Is is true for the ABB units but unfortunately will also be true for the new 500a capable Signet units. :( EVgo has a different strategy with their new ultium-backed stations. All their units will get all the power modules they are capable of even if that delays opening the station. Be it their Signet or Deltas units. Unfortunately for EVgo's network; up until recently they mostly focused on the 50kw ABBs in shopping areas not road trips. Glad to see the strong stations popping up from them due to Ultium investments. Currently California, Washington, Denver area, and may states in just the northern east coast.
Hearing you talk about getting 145kWh and sounding sad is making me question my Lightning order that will be built in the week of 5/9. I have a 19ft travel trailer (5k lbs) that I want to take about 600 miles from my house and I know I'll be lucky to get 150 miles out of it. So that means I'll have to charge it about 3 times if I want to get their on empty. That means I'll add about 3 hrs to my already long drive. Ugh, maybe I'll just wait until battery tech can get better and we're able to charge at 1,000 kWh. Or if I can tow and get 300 miles going from 80% SOC to 20% SOC and able to charge it back to 80% SOC in 15 mins then that would be great too.
Great end to your road trip series. Regarding the Rivian, I really wish they'd went with Android Automotive OS to have more accurate route planning + Google Maps. At least they should allow the option of Android Auto & Apple CarPlay so drivers can use Google Maps or Waze on the center screen if they want. That's the one major issue keeping me from recommending Teslas or Rivians to anyone. Is there any way to force the Rivian to show battery percentage instead of estimated range in the navigation? At least battery percentage is shown prominently elsewhere, but it would be nice to see an estimate percentage on arrival.
those charge rate limits have to be due to the grid needing to throttle the charger down....the grid can't handle the draw if the chargers were all in use, so they are limited...
25:50 Any thoughts on jumping to the other 350 kW in these circumstances? Sometimes it doesn't make sense, but if there's a potential for a ~30% increase in charging speeds, it seems worth it to verify. Plus it gives you a reason to report it on PlugShare and get EA's attention about insufficient power.
Yes that is odd how EA bragged on the fastest DC Chargers were compared to Teslas fastest 250 kw chargers when EA chargers are mostly 150 kw.? I hope they update the 350 kw chargers so they can do what is promised.
Ea is delusional, so far only about 5% of their installed chargers are 350kwhs. And they still don't offer across the board plug n charge capability something tesla has had since 2013 with the sc network. What's amusing is tesla saw evs had to have the sc network in order to work for road trips&mass adoption of evs as well. While the other oems insist since they didn't help pay for gas stations? Why should they fund charging. But if each one had taken just 5-10% of their yearly ad revenue budgets(each legacy oem spends billions per year on ads. And instead put that $ in a portion of all of the ev networks. Say for the last 3 year's, then by now it's likely they would have 2 or 3x the number of station's available. Not to mention they would own a piece of the pie for when their cars and competitors cars charge. Talk about a win win right?
Kyle could you confirm my logic. If I have a larger pack version of any vehicle wouldn't it allow me to road trip faster based on the fact I can charge faster overall. What I mean is if the charging curve starts to tapper at 80% wouldn't that mean 80 % of any extra cells would always charge faster. what is your opinion of how much the larger pack Rivian could decrease the time over a 500 mile trip?
so i am 5 minutes into the video, there is a blob of bird dropping in the middle of the windshield.. I'm guessing there is about a 75% chance Kyle doesn't clean that off while charging for the entire trip... back to the video.
Hello from Greeley. I have a Tesla M3 2021 and I was wondering which app is the best for knowing where the chargers are and knowing your battery on a trip or is just using the Tesla nav the best?
Word is Kyle is still wandering the Walmarts of America complaining about EA limiting 500 amp chargers to 350 amps
LOL 🤣
Damn this made my lol
Legend has it…
I like how EA says "For a better charging experience we have reduced the output to 350 amps instead of 350 KW as advertised" what a load of horse bleep!
I bought a Model 3 LR last July and your road trip videos with your Tesla gave me the confidence to go forward with the Tesla, keep up the great videos, thanks!
Woohoo viewing from the island Trinidad 🇹🇹 while Kyle is charging in Trinidad, USA! 🇺🇸😄
I was born in Port of Spain… 1948!
Great video! On a side note, Voltage can actually be seen as the SPEED (electromotive force or pressure) at which electrons travel through a conductor. Amperage can be seen as the AMOUNT (current) of electrons that travel through that conductor at a given time. Watts is a combination of these two, it reflects actual power as expressed in Watts Law "P = E x I" (E=Voltage, I=amps, P=watts). Look at the conductors as an "Electron Highway". If the electrons (cars) go slow on the highway (lower voltage), the amount of cars on the highway at any given time (amps), needs to be higher to reach the target Power (watts), which is limited by the current rating of the conductor (AWG gauge). But, if the cars go faster (higher voltage), then the highway flows better, there will be less cars and less congestion on the highway at a given time (amps), and we'll be able to reach the same amount of Power (watts) without the need for a bigger highway (conductor). Example of Watts Law to calculate this limit you talk about in the video: 400v x 350a = 140kW ...... but 800v x 350a = 280kW ..... and assuming they raise the 350 amps limit to 500a on the same 400v architecture: 400v x 500a = 200kW ..... but even more amazing would be 800v architecture with full 500a current: 800v x 500a = 400kW. Sorry for nerding out on such a long comment!!
As a long term Tesla (2015) owner and now added a Taycan I can't say how disappointing the charging experience is on EA. Just took a trip to Florida Panhandle and the EA station had one 350 unit down charger down in Mississippi but Pensacola had only one 150kW working even though the App said that they are all available. It was like that for my return trip 7 days later and had to wait for the one unit to be available. I sure hope for Tesla to open up the SC network here in NA like they said they will.
I like gas better still 😅
No problem going across country in a M3LR.
@@outsideguy3633 I also have no problems doing long rang trips in my X from the Oregon coast to New Orleans twice per year. The user experience between the supercharger network and EA experience is night and day.
Power is the same regardless of if you have 400v or 800v at the charging station, if the vehicle has a 400v system or 800v system. Power = voltage x current, or P = I * E. Higher voltage allows the current to be lower, which reduces cable size requirements and lowers heat loss, and voltage loss due to heat. High amounts of current flow produces heat, so increasing voltage, lowers current flow, and heat losses, but power doesn’t change. This is why you pay by the kilowatt, because power is not effected by changing voltage. Higher voltage is better for heat management, and is cheaper due to not requiring large conductors, but the gain in charging speed is pretty minor from 400v to 800v, unless the charge current is also increased, which again, would increase heat losses.
I'm hoping the charging lot in Winslow was on a corner. Then you could say you were charging on a corner, in Winslow, Arizona... I'll be here all this week folks!
I bought my ID.4 based on watching your videos. Thanks for the push to EV life!
I do this drive the other way and the current way to go to school in Prescott. Good to see that it can be done electrically! I'm excited to do this drive in June to go back to CO for the summer!
In electronics we think of voltage more as pressure. The current is the size of the conductor/pipe. The controller is the valve used to control flow.
I cheered when the rain washed off the bug guts
You should invite Bjorn Nyland to USA. It would be interesting couple of reviews , long distance road trips and live streams.
Just admiring your roads, speed limit and charging stations. Australia is the stone age compared to them.
I think the Rivian really surprised the market with it performance. Could I ever justify it fully spec.ed at just under $100k, no way. But it is quite a wonderful truck.
considering that it smokes a trx (90k+ well specced), or a corvette, on the road and on par off road, I would say it is a bargain relatively speaking
I feel the same way BUt if my 2020 model 3 performance continues to keep close to its value I might be ordering the 100k option early 2023 🤞
@@neburNight26 well, I have the same car as you and I can assure you it did not. 😂 wait…😢😢😢
@@justinstewart3248 it’s funny you should say that. I actually traded it in back in May for a model Y performance. It was at its peak value so it did work out for me 😃
This channel deserves more subscribers 💪 Great video Kyle and good explanation on the 350A limit 😎👌⚡️
As it is typical to Tesla Bjorn videos which initially inspired this channel a huge spot of a bug smashed on windshield is plaguing the video. That is not a problem of Kyle since usually at gas stations one can use special windshield cleaners while at charging stations everything is dry. I salute the approach to EV charging from Norway and UK where the gas stations have charging stations installed.
I learn a lot about EVs on your channel. Thanks
On the EA / ABB charger limitation. Pull up the datasheet from the manufacturer and it seems to indicate that they're limited to 375A if they're connected to a single power cabinet. If they're connected to a dual power cabinet it says they're capable of 500A and both handles are usable on a single stall, I assume split between the two up to 500A.
Kyle, I would take photos and send them to EA showing the limitation on each charger and see if they say it is only that one charger that has issues.
Why every electrify america charger has 2 ccs plug when you can only use one per time
I bought an EV6 based on your videos, Tesla Bjørn’s and a couple others. Thanks for nerding out on the details, it matters for those of us playing in this space.
How are the rivian headlights? Now that I’m in my 40s, headlight performance makes such a big difference. I can barely see anything w my Ioniq 5. Probably the worst headlights of any cars I’ve had in the past 15 yrs. My husbands polestar has amazing headlights.
Love the rivian!
Wow just had my first Tesla commercial on RUclips!!
Long-distance travel in an EV is still a pain. They have you covered if you have a Tesla, but otherwise, what a hassle! It is going to take time before charging becomes faster and more reliable. I am glad there are people like you that show us what we are in for on long trips if we own an EV. Now that EVs are being produced in more significant numbers, we will need a more robust charging infrastructure for the average American to consider an EV as their primary vehicle. Hopefully, government initiatives and funding will help to resolve these issues.
Tesla is the only truly capable long distance road trip car based both on the car's efficiency and the amazing Supercharger network.
@@oisiaa Agreed, we are still a few years away from a genuinely gas-station-like experience with electrics. Even the Ford CEO acknowledged the other day that the charging infrastructure sucks. Tesla remains the champ in charging, they really have no competition. For everyday driving around town, EVs are great and as long as the distances are less than 200 miles and a home charger is available. But for long trips, the hassle of charging and the insecurity of the chargers working is just not worth it.
EV charging has gotten significantly better since Kyle made this video. Much of the Tesla Supercharger network will open to Rivians and other CCS vehicles in 2024. Furthermore Rivian has since installed multiple fast chargers along this route that allow charging power over 200 kW.
As a side note, here’s some food for thought:
That tall mountain in the video at (22:38 and 22:50) is the tallest mountain in Arizona. The wonderful, historic city of Flagstaff, 85k residents, one of Arizona’s three public universities, northern Arizona’s only level one trauma hospital sit at the base of that mountain. The mountain is sacred to multiple indigenous tribes and is home to Arizona’s best ski area. The mountain has unfortunately burned significantly (about 25%) from multiple, major, catastrophic wildfires over the last 15 years resulting in floods unlike anything Flagstaff has seen in its 140 year history. Experts attribute these recent, frequent, catastrophic fires and flooding to climate change.
Many Flagstaff neighborhoods, schools, and businesses have since been inundated by annual flooding as a result of the fires, not to mention the devastation to the natural environment. Flagstaff’s flood control district just released a study estimating the economic impact of future catastrophic fires on this mountain are expected to cost at least another 2 BILLION dollars and flood thousands more Flagstaff homes. Flagstaff and the many other people and places all over the world are being devastated by climate change. A few extra minutes of charging on a road trip to help solve this problem is truly a small price to pay in reality. I’ve been road tripping EVs since 2017 and charging (especially in Tesla compatible NACS vehicles) is a piece of cake now.
@@e2dub I have been to Flagstaff and it is indeed a beautiful place. I am glad to hear that your charging experience has been good using the Tesla chargers. Now what we need are some affordable EVs with decent range and we will be off to the races.
The thing I love about road tripping my Tesla Model 3 is that I can get a peak of 250kW and the car only uses about 240Wh/mile so my charging stops are stupidly short. I can typically hop chargers with 12-15 minutes per stop.
The smaller battery helps with that too. I love it!
I also leased a Polestar2 based on your reviews. Not the best road-tripper, I know, but for my needs in daily commuting it is a blast!
Oh hey, I recognize that charging station/Walmart in Albuquerque! Greetings from an Albuquerque resident.
Wow a road tripping truck. Cant wait to see comparisons to the F150.
As I understand it, the cover for the bed leaks, right?
The Rivian looks like a nearly perfect EV - power, comfort, space, range - it has it all ( I would love a 7KW or more inverter since it has such a large battery), wish I could get one, lol - Thanks for your review
Too bad you passed through Wagon Mound NM at night. You missed seeing one of the great landmarks of the old Santa Fe Trail. It's real easy to see during daylight - a mesa resembling a Conestoga wagon that was the last landmark on the Trail before reaching the end in Santa Fe, and from which the town got its name. I rode in a bicycle tour from Santa Fe to central Missouri (not on an EV bicycle!) and we spent a night camping at the high school there. I had to laugh at your charging stop since that Conoco station is where we stopped and picked up beer to drink (recharging?) when we arrived at the camping spot. But that was before the EA chargers were installed :)
Enjoyed going on the ride with you! Hope to go on more.
Driving home through DTC late at night... thank god I don't have to do that anymore.
I was at the Santa Fe charger today. That charger is still down.
I spent weeks waiting for the last part of this series 😍😍😍
Just ordered an Ionic 5 yesterday watched all you videos and went to a dealer and they had one that I could test drive. Rwd lr......I couldn't get over how fast it went!! I didn't even put it in sports mode...will have to wait for it but that is OK.
Kyle. A quick vehicle wash might have helped with drag...
Good news regarding charging infrastructure on the AZ part of this route: Rivian has recently installed RAN fast chargers in both Flagstaff and Holbrook AZ, so 200+ kWh charging speeds are available to Rivians on that route between PHX and Gallup ⚡️⚡️⚡️
Also, because of the Holbrook RAN, driving that route in a Rivian you should now be able to take the faster route northeast out of Phoenix to Holbrook via Payson AZ, instead of going due north to Flagstaff. According to ABRP this shortcut now shaves nearly an hour off of the trip.
0:08 That license plate looks wild 😀
You are officially my favorite Nerd, "lovingly stated :-)" I love all your videos. I still don't understand all that kilowatt talk though, but you make these videos fun to watch and I don't even own a EV (LOL). Keep up the great work and I will see you on your next one. Thank you for all you do!!!
Love the design of the Rivian. Wish I could afford one.
HOW MUCH TIME did you need now for 880 miles incl charging??? I can't find out .....
EDIT: I jumped the gun on your explanation, which was right on.
Voltage is the pipe? I would potentially disagree. According to Ohm's law, voltage is represented by "E" which is allegedly short for Electromotive Force. I would say voltage, in a discussion about charging would maybe be explained as pressure. The charger, like and air compressor inflating a tire, must overcome the voltage or 'pressure' of the pack for current to flow. The pipe analogy would maybe be represented by current, or amperage...speed of air through hose? lol. The combination of current and voltage results in wattage or.... CFM? I dunno. Just spouting stuff I recall from electronics class in HS. Thanks for the vids!
In the time spent activating an EA charger, my Tesla would have already gained 15 miles of range...and charged at 250kW to pull further ahead.
You must really get paid well to afford your Tesla, Smart EV, and now looking at a Rivian. Big Bucks
Those pet grooming gloves look pretty amazing! Always love the Big sale! Definitely gonna get some for my dogs and cats😊
Escape is such a good Mau5trap song!!!
Where is the nearest car wash?
Love the breakdown on the amperage limitations! Super dumb issue to have haha. Honestly I hope that, as we start transitioning more to EV's, the government starts requiring standardization between pack voltage "tiers" and charger station capabilities. I doubt it would happen for a long time, but the charging infrastructure is reallyyy holding things back.
Really looking forward to seeing how the curve looks with the pre-conditioning feature of the new OTA.
I can tell you were getting punchy at the end. lol Driving at night is tough but being past tired and driving is worse. Glad you made it back. Thanks for the ride along. Be well.
Dumb question - any links to driving montage music? Most I can capture with a song search but google shrugged its shoulders at the one used for the last three trips and I need that in my favorites for work!
Hey there - my wife has a Polestar which we love although I wish Fort Collins had an Electrify America station. I have an R1T on order and am hoping the config I picked (which is supposedly being prioritized) means I'll get my paws on the Rivian before the end of the year. Will keep an eye out for you around town as I've not seen a Rivian "in the flesh" yet...
that hood front corner looks fitted to tesla specs! :--P
Where's the stats? It looks like the performance was about the same as an F-150 ($4 gas) but with 2-3 hours of refueling tme. Your enthusiasm is getting in the way of a factual review.
18:59 With that sort of elevation increase, I like shooting for Winslow with Flagstaff as a backup, but I just sort of wing my charging stops on road trips anyway.
24:30 And this explains why I keep arriving places with less than 3% battery...
It's almost like EA begrudgingly had to install chargers as part of a lawsuit or something instead of wanting the best user experience for the customer...... Really hope they improve!!
EA are actually some of the better non-Tesla ones... :(
@@cgamiga Agreed.
At least they go through the trouble of placing chargers where you need them to complete long-distance road trips compared to other networks. The other networks have lots of chargers in cities, but are nearly useless for road trips. For getting out of town, Electrify America is essentially the only DCFC option available.
@@ab-tf5fl Haha yea that's true. It's sad that the bar is that low that simply putting chargers where you need them immediately means EA is the best of the worst.
Yes Out of Spec Motoring is the reason I decided on the Ionic 5 rather than the EV6, as you pointed out it drives great and offers better space than the EV6, something that we want in an EV! My hit is that I had to release my EV6 which I reserved, came in about back 4 weeks ago and now my Ionic has been pushed from May delivery to October. But my EV6 in Canada comes with a dark interior no light interior option, go figure Kia, we in Canada have very dark winters and could use a little lighter interior! option? The other thing is the Hyundai dealer is giving me about what I paid for my purchased new 2019 Kia Soul EV Luxury after the Federal EV incentives, Kia not so much even though I bought a 2020 Soul EV Limited from the same Kia dealer, go figure! At least both dealers are sticking to MSRP!
I bought an EV6 and love it but I may get an Ioniq 5 for the wifey.
You know I was very interested in the cars themselves but this channel really disappoints not even one minute in and they’re already showing their biases
How many miles, how many hours, how many kWh used and how many dollars was that trip?
43:35 I've been seeing that happen recently. I pulled in front of a charger that appeared available, but the EA app listed it as unavailable. I couldn't even swipe to activate the charger on the app, but just having the app open and using the NFC in my phone activated the charger without issue.
10:00 Wait, three out of four EA chargers are working!?!? I was told that that's not possible!
14:22 Wait, four out of four? That's definitely unpossible!
As Barney would say, "It's possimpible"
Yeah, a lot of people like to complain about EA a lot when it is usually user error and not the charger's fault if there's an issue. At the Wagon Mound charger, some people with T-Mobile complain that they can't activate in the app with no cell signal -- they don't know they can put their phone with NFC up to the charger.
Seems to me that when you are limited by charger current you would be better off not discharging so deeply as you would get more power delivered at a slightly higher battery voltage.
Just want to say that I appreciate the Rivian's lock sound, and I hope other auto makers will start doing something similar. In the meantime, I ask drivers of other vehicles to turn off their "honk on lock" feature as a courtesy to their neighbors, especially when arriving home late at night. There is no need to wake up everybody on the block to "announce" that you are home and that your car is locked.
If you were going 65 instead of 80, how much further would you go and having to charge fewer times make up for the difference in speed? I'm guessing higher speed with more charging still gets you there faster. Pity time is such a overwhelming need as so much energy is wasted at that speed.
If you drive, say, 200mi at 65 it will take 3 hours and 4 minutes. If you drive 200 at 80 it will take about 34 minutes less, at 2 hours and 30 mins. At 1000mi the difference is nearly 3 hours. That’s a fair chunk of time for charging.
Most times the charger replenishes faster than the car uses up extra battery for higher speed, so it's worthwhile to go faster and charge more. You can model it with ABetterRoutePlanner, go to settings (top left 3-bar) menu, Speed, set Reference Speed>100%, and re-plan... see what difference it makes.
All depends what folks want to do, arrive faster but charge/spend more, or enjoy scenery :)
While I’m not a fan of these gigantic, heavy trucks (I’d rather see their batteries used for a small fleet of smaller EVs) if that’s what helps push consumers towards more efficient transport, let’s go
I did some calculations on the hummev. And if they used the 212kwh pack for 3 average model 3 sized sedans instead.
Driven average miles for a sedan annually.
It still works out better for the environment(less total materials in 1 hummev vs 3 model 3 or bolts)to just build that 1 hummev that is in the segment which pollutes the most and gets driven for the most miles instead.
Vs the 3 smaller model 3 or bolt style evs. The average hummev will take 800-1200 gallons of fuel right off the board&a couple oil changes.
Plus ev trucks will even if slowly convert more of those who are still in the "hurr durr never catch me in an ev type's"
Once their hyper masculine Mack daddy buddies have one, they will also capitulate. Resistance is futile EVolve or get assimilated. 😀
At 70 MPGe, it's more efficient than a Taycan (68 MPGe - and only slightly worse than an XC40 or Mach-E GT at 79 and 82 MPGe, two actually-realistic other choices for us) for daily driving, *AND* it can replace my old dirty diesel pickup for hauling. That's a win for me. (I also have an Arcimoto FUV with its 173 MPGe for truly efficient commuting.)
@@4literv6 maybe use the 212 kw battery and create 70 hybrid prius that get 60+ mpg. Best for environment.
Wow, that charger in Trinidad was actually . . . iced!
Battery is not warm enough? What, the battery heating system needs a software update?
This testing was before Rivian updated the charging curve, correct?
Kyle, do you know a website that has the specs for voltage and current max rates for every EV model? It would be useful for comparisons.
Love The Rivian. Great Truck. Thanks for the trip but I hope you don't mind a little criticism. You are too technically detailed in your charging reviews. Station after station the same Jargon with the Kwh, bah, bah, bah. I think most people including myself care about one thing. How many miles and how much did it COST.?? I followed your first 3 stops and roughly calculated you traveled 331 miles at a cost of About $78. Roughly $.24 a mile. That is slightly MORE than an ICE car getting 20 MPG @ $4.50 a gallon!! Where are all the Savings?? Especially when you also have to add in all the time wasted finding and waiting for the Chargers to finish.
I agree, so why go electric?
Charging cost seems to be expensive. 150 to 180 miles for $20 to $26.
That is still equivalent to 30mpg at $4 gallon. No truck would ever close to that mpg
@@fuckthisksksjjksdfjd my hybrid that gets 60-,62mpg would get 300-350 miles with same cost.
i see where the new hummers take 4 days to charge on regular house current lol so was this trip based on one day being 24hrs since you must have had to spend considerable time charging
Thanks for the video on Real World Charging my son and I watch your videos together. We are going electric soon.
In many states the fees are based on price per min of charging. By limiting the charging speed they can collect much more money because it takes that much longer. All charging fees should be based on the energy delivered not time charging.
That’s is one aspect where the government weights and measures division should make it a rule that it is illegible to charge by time and only charge by kWh
@@fuckthisksksjjksdfjd
Depends on the situation. Time-based charging may be appropriate in urban environments where parking is limited. Otherwise, you'll have people plugging in who don't even need the charge, simply for access to the parking space.
Of course, at the small-town WalMart chargers shown in this video, what I said is definitely *not* an issue. These should all be per-kWh.
I wish we had something like EA in Canada. Barely any CCS fast charging. Hopefully by the time I’m ready to buy a Rivian the charging network will catch up. For now, I’m very happy with my model 3; you just can’t beat the supercharger network.
In the Twin Cities Tweakers are stealing the charging cord
I paused the video to see how long the truck needs to charge and the costs. Charging the Rivian is expensive period. It also takes way too long to charge to the point where it’s a serious inconvenience. Who wants to wait an hour anywhere and not get a full charge. Which leads to another issue. Because you can’t fully charge the truck you will have to charge more frequently which means you’ll be spending more money in charging fees.
Trucks will always be expensive to charge because they are less energy efficient than cars. The same is true with gas-powered trucks - expecting the Rivian to match the energy efficiency of a Bolt is like expecting a gas-powered truck to match the energy efficiency of a Prius.
From a trip-time standpoint, lower efficiency is inherently bad, since it lowers the effective charging speed you get out of each kW level. For instance, a 2017 Chevy Bolt plugged into the 50kW Moab charger is gaining range-miles much more quickly than a Rivian plugged into that same 50kW charger, in spite of the Rivian being a far more expensive vehicle. Ditto for all forms of level 2 charging, even with the Rivian supporting higher amperage. For an even more extreme case, imagine an Electrify America with a Hummer charging at 350kW side by side a Bolt charging at 50kW. It's Kyle's 1 mi/kWh on the Hummer is accurate, the rate that the two vehicles will accumulate range-miles is nearly identical.
Good practical video 👍
What's the mile/kWh efficiency on each leg?
So, according to the sticker on the charging station it can do up to 920VDC at up to 500A. Does that mean that in theory a car could be made that could charge at up to 460 kilowatts? What sort of limitations exist in the current 800V EVs (Taycan, E-Tron GT, Hyundai) that limit them to 250-270 kilowatts?
All the Rivian coverage has been super helpful. I'm in the queue, but likely won't get mine until 23. I think I'm going to have to keep a gas vehicle for the long road trips though, especially as these chargers get more and more crowded.
So all those charging stations and not one could give you more than what, 133 kW ?
In the power cabinets they need to install the other power module on the 350kw units so that the 400 volt cars can be more like the the 800v guys. So I was explained to by EA that they are currently catering the 350kw units to the 800v vehicles for now. It is a combination of getting the stations online sooner (supply contractions/availability) and to save cost in the interim. As more big pack 400vs get on the road they will add the other power module to the 500a capable dispensers. Is is true for the ABB units but unfortunately will also be true for the new 500a capable Signet units. :( EVgo has a different strategy with their new ultium-backed stations. All their units will get all the power modules they are capable of even if that delays opening the station. Be it their Signet or Deltas units. Unfortunately for EVgo's network; up until recently they mostly focused on the 50kw ABBs in shopping areas not road trips. Glad to see the strong stations popping up from them due to Ultium investments. Currently California, Washington, Denver area, and may states in just the northern east coast.
At Rivian, they've never heard of streamline. The car could be so much more fuel efficient.
Hey Kyle, any idea of how much your annual EV charging bill is?? I'm just curious, I bet is a crazy number 😅
Dude, you know your cars. Just dropped a 1k deposit on a rivian order based on this series of reviews.
So in a nutshell, how much time was spent at the chargers?
Hearing you talk about getting 145kWh and sounding sad is making me question my Lightning order that will be built in the week of 5/9. I have a 19ft travel trailer (5k lbs) that I want to take about 600 miles from my house and I know I'll be lucky to get 150 miles out of it. So that means I'll have to charge it about 3 times if I want to get their on empty. That means I'll add about 3 hrs to my already long drive. Ugh, maybe I'll just wait until battery tech can get better and we're able to charge at 1,000 kWh. Or if I can tow and get 300 miles going from 80% SOC to 20% SOC and able to charge it back to 80% SOC in 15 mins then that would be great too.
Great end to your road trip series. Regarding the Rivian, I really wish they'd went with Android Automotive OS to have more accurate route planning + Google Maps. At least they should allow the option of Android Auto & Apple CarPlay so drivers can use Google Maps or Waze on the center screen if they want. That's the one major issue keeping me from recommending Teslas or Rivians to anyone. Is there any way to force the Rivian to show battery percentage instead of estimated range in the navigation? At least battery percentage is shown prominently elsewhere, but it would be nice to see an estimate percentage on arrival.
Rivian seems to be extremely conservative on the battery, recommending 70% daily charge and only charging at ~1.5C max.
those charge rate limits have to be due to the grid needing to throttle the charger down....the grid can't handle the draw if the chargers were all in use, so they are limited...
How many miles is 1% ? Lets say the Rivian R1T has 4% charge left. How far can you still drive in case the charge station is out of service?
1% 😳. Never road trip my M3P get lower than 10. 😅
interesting that you aren't doublechecking the dash planner with EA's app to verify the charger capacities and status ahead of your route.
25:50 Any thoughts on jumping to the other 350 kW in these circumstances? Sometimes it doesn't make sense, but if there's a potential for a ~30% increase in charging speeds, it seems worth it to verify. Plus it gives you a reason to report it on PlugShare and get EA's attention about insufficient power.
Yes that is odd how EA bragged on the fastest DC Chargers were compared to Teslas fastest 250 kw chargers when EA chargers are mostly 150 kw.?
I hope they update the 350 kw chargers so they can do what is promised.
Ea is delusional, so far only about 5% of their installed chargers are 350kwhs. And they still don't offer across the board plug n charge capability something tesla has had since 2013 with the sc network.
What's amusing is tesla saw evs had to have the sc network in order to work for road trips&mass adoption of evs as well.
While the other oems insist since they didn't help pay for gas stations? Why should they fund charging.
But if each one had taken just 5-10% of their yearly ad revenue budgets(each legacy oem spends billions per year on ads.
And instead put that $ in a portion of all of the ev networks. Say for the last 3 year's, then by now it's likely they would have 2 or 3x the number of station's available. Not to mention they would own a piece of the pie for when their cars and competitors cars charge. Talk about a win win right?
Kyle could you confirm my logic. If I have a larger pack version of any vehicle wouldn't it allow me to road trip faster based on the fact I can charge faster overall. What I mean is if the charging curve starts to tapper at 80% wouldn't that mean 80 % of any extra cells would always charge faster. what is your opinion of how much the larger pack Rivian could decrease the time over a 500 mile trip?
so i am 5 minutes into the video, there is a blob of bird dropping in the middle of the windshield.. I'm guessing there is about a 75% chance Kyle doesn't clean that off while charging for the entire trip... back to the video.
43 minutes in. he stops and cleans the headlights and the radar sensor, but did he clean the windshield directly in from of the camera???
This is expensive to fill up for charge. I'm surprised it's costing so much each stop
Exactly. Anything non tesla and a prius is way more eco choice.
Hello from Greeley. I have a Tesla M3 2021 and I was wondering which app is the best for knowing where the chargers are and knowing your battery on a trip or is just using the Tesla nav the best?