Also we should keep in mind that as heavy support the max number of units will be 2 unless a battle force does otherwise. This will also mean that ATST Tank and LAAT will all compete with these guys for slots, so if these guys are transported they only get one of them.
I love the new dark troopers, but I really do wish they would release classic Dark Troopers from the video game Dark Forces, including a Phase 3 Exo Suit Dark Trooper with its super heavy weapons and armor, plus jet pack.
If you look at the cost per mini, the Mertalizer is nearly a free upgrade. 95 points is 31-32 per mini. This one is 36 so you're only paying a 5 point premium for the upgraded melee weapon
I think they will change the unit to be restricted to that personnel specifically or update all or the other personnel to be core only. If they do let you take standard personnel on these guys they will be updated to 1 ho and probably sidearm 1 white or something to that effect. Overall they have an interesting design space and I am curious to see how they turn out on the table.
I imagine there will be some kind of errata to fix the personnel thing. The mertalizer I think is solid in that it is the cheapest heavy and makes it even more threatening to get close enough for them to be able to base you. Even without the surges it is 7 Red, 1 Black, and 5 White with suppressive on a fully kitted squad. Especially since the threat of taking return damage in melee is very low unless they are boxing a saber wielder.
Agree, melee would be terrifying. Also, 2 move 1 is equal to one move 3, so they move faster than people think. The melee option may very well crush a lot of things, even if I think the other 2 will normally get the slots, as with 2 heavies on base squad you get 5 red and 5 white dice in melee anyway, with the sword one would have 6 red, 1 black, 4 white- so far less improvement than the ranged weapons make to shooting, plus their keywords. It is cool though.
I think that upgrade bar is mostly for the battleforce and there'll be a reason to use lots of upgrades with it. Some sort of "If Moff Gideon is your leader you can include/ add these upgrades for a reduced cost or free"
I strongly suspect that the infantry slot will get restricted. The use of the extra dark trooper is to add wounds before damage on a heavy unit. I do think this unit will overall be either extremely scary or useless. It could either be an unstoppable force that hits quite hard and constantly moves up and deals damage or they could be nullified or ignored and the rest of the army piecemealed. Also, they definitely have some counters, Ion Spider Droid comes to mind. We should keep in mind that even with speed 1 and plodding they can move 8" (a single speed 3) move every turn, so overall they may get around the board a lot faster than we think while firing twice, I think that the unstoppable and armor will be the big advantages added to the heavy ranged options, with plodding keeping them from being too fast and unconcerned keeping them from being invincible. I do think that a lot of people will take them for cool factor regardless, and that will mean most players will need a plan to deal with them. We may see more lightsabers and impact in lists.
I was kicking around the idea of the Viper droid, and because they have two activations a turn, you could observe in one activation, and aim/attack in the second.
Regarding the dark trooper upgrade card, i actually think the other upgrades are not going be be allowed, the only upgrade for dark troopers will be extra dark trooper, this makes the most sense. it may be ok since the cards allow it, i think a rules review, errata will say , imp. dark troopers can only take imperial dark trooper cards for upgrades.
Chances are the older Imperial personnel upgrades have 1 wound added to them, similar to the T-Series upgrade. Sep upgrades will also likely have Sep Only added to them.
I am REALLY looking forward to using the Dark Troopers in tandem with Gideon. Dark troopers in a LAAT also feels like a good combo to get them up the field if you aren't running Gideon.
If you can take the coms tech or something else instead of the personnel dark trooper that is probably what we'll see most people doing; other then that I think the two heavies are a must, I wonder will people use the LAAT to transport these guys into close range and that way the melee sword dude will get used more often. But I think the grenade launcher and assault gunner will be the two most used heavies.
Base unit is pricey despite offering some great kw, but seems to me like they get better with every point you invest in the 2 heavy options. 10 life, 2r/8b dice with two attacks per round for 183 points seems solid. The melee upgrade seems like it's just jedi deterrent. Not sure how much play that will get. Thanks for the overview.
Thanks for the video Crabbok, and interesting review. I had not considered that most personel upgrades would inherit the 2 health attribute. I was "meh" about this unit, but there are definitely some upsides to this unit, so we will see how it plays out
I would have thought they'd be able to fly with their rocket feet at some stage. Maybe some sort of upgrade card or jump ability maybe. It's going to suck having to manoeuvre around cover etc.
With the adding into things that have come in the past, we could maybe have in the future, if with the imperial special forces (the one that came with inferno squad) be able to add cross hair from bad batch,
I really like them, but i get the feeling that if you run them you have to build your list around them because of the cost. At the same time I can’t wait for the moff Gideon battle force lol
If they removed "suppresive" from that heavy sword weapon and instead gave him "duelist" then it would be a good anti-lightsaber unit and would give reason for taking dodge from retinue
I think they are going to hit very hard with the command card giving them fire support for a turn. An ATST at range 3 with Dark troopers fire supporting at range 2 could give 20 dice (5R/12B/3W), surge to crit, impact 6, and blast!! At range 2 with the right upgrades on both it could roll 23 dice in a single attack!!!
Me and a few of my buddies have been wanting to get into Legion. My friend Cam was wanting to do Empire and now I'm not so sure I want him to do that lol
How about adding that Mertalizer and then reserving them for rapid reinforcements? I think RR is still a non-commander and non-op, doesn't say non-heavy yet?
Cool! To see Dark trooper miniatures! They just don't fit my army theme. I'm making an Isard list with the help of Wargaming 3D. Isard, 3 ISB stormtrooper units, Scouts, Royal Guard, LAAT, and one imperial tank. Should look great on the battlefield. I think I can maximize the Royal Guard sweeping in on the LAAT.
I still wonder with the talk about the Imperial Remnant battle force if dark troopers can only run in that battle force or something. So far, all signs point to that not being the case
Cycle is per activation, not round correct? Making that frag launcher useable every round which, once they get in range, these guys are DANGEROUS. 6 minis, 11-12 HP for the unit. C'mon ewoks we need help 😅
Some additional insights Gideon's "You have something I want" note that they keep all tokens. All tokens. Even objective tokens. Certain missions these guys could potentially run away with the game. Also consider that if you know it will come to kill points and you've got a dark trooper squad on its last leg... Gideon has red dice defense and surge to block so he is pretty tough to kill. Mid board blob of Dark troopers and giddy = total dominance. GAVw is an open topped transport fyi Dark Troopers are leadership dash so cannot take suppression which means you can give them a standby token and say come at me bro. The Frag launcher has blast. I repeat it has blast. My $0.02 is they are bad for the game. There is no over the board strategy when playing against them it's just pray for crits/critical and impact keyword spam and even then you have to hope your opponent rolls bad or average cause if he rolls above average on defense they will very quickly kill anything that can realistically hurt them and just dominate the board.
Maybe with the upcoming shatterpoint they want legion to have a bigger point pool in the coming update so there a major différence between the 2 games and that why you can feild 3 of those.
![NOSFERATU - Official Trailer [HD] - Only In Theaters December 25](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/nulvWqYUM8k/mqdefault.jpg)
Cycle on the dark trooper means you can use the launcher every turn. First activation use the launcher, second activation of the turn cycles it.
There is no way that non dark trooper upgrades can go in this unit, there will definitely be some new rule added specially for them
Also we should keep in mind that as heavy support the max number of units will be 2 unless a battle force does otherwise. This will also mean that ATST Tank and LAAT will all compete with these guys for slots, so if these guys are transported they only get one of them.
Gideon has Entourage, meaning you can run 3 if you bring him in the list!
I just got into SWL and bought into the Seperatists. The spider droid is fun.
I love the new dark troopers, but I really do wish they would release classic Dark Troopers from the video game Dark Forces, including a Phase 3 Exo Suit Dark Trooper with its super heavy weapons and armor, plus jet pack.
I'm 99% sure you can only take the Dark Trooper in the personnel slot. They'll change the upgrade personnel to "[faction] Corps only."
I love how AMG is creating such a unique and powerful new heavy for the empire.
If you look at the cost per mini, the Mertalizer is nearly a free upgrade. 95 points is 31-32 per mini. This one is 36 so you're only paying a 5 point premium for the upgraded melee weapon
Honestly I think the big reason they included the extra is because that is a standard personnel for all the trooper units.
I think they will change the unit to be restricted to that personnel specifically or update all or the other personnel to be core only. If they do let you take standard personnel on these guys they will be updated to 1 ho and probably sidearm 1 white or something to that effect. Overall they have an interesting design space and I am curious to see how they turn out on the table.
I imagine there will be some kind of errata to fix the personnel thing. The mertalizer I think is solid in that it is the cheapest heavy and makes it even more threatening to get close enough for them to be able to base you. Even without the surges it is 7 Red, 1 Black, and 5 White with suppressive on a fully kitted squad. Especially since the threat of taking return damage in melee is very low unless they are boxing a saber wielder.
Agree, melee would be terrifying. Also, 2 move 1 is equal to one move 3, so they move faster than people think. The melee option may very well crush a lot of things, even if I think the other 2 will normally get the slots, as with 2 heavies on base squad you get 5 red and 5 white dice in melee anyway, with the sword one would have 6 red, 1 black, 4 white- so far less improvement than the ranged weapons make to shooting, plus their keywords. It is cool though.
There’s definitely no way they aren’t going to clarify you can only take the dark trooper for the personnel upgrade
I think that upgrade bar is mostly for the battleforce and there'll be a reason to use lots of upgrades with it. Some sort of "If Moff Gideon is your leader you can include/ add these upgrades for a reduced cost or free"
I strongly suspect that the infantry slot will get restricted. The use of the extra dark trooper is to add wounds before damage on a heavy unit.
I do think this unit will overall be either extremely scary or useless.
It could either be an unstoppable force that hits quite hard and constantly moves up and deals damage or they could be nullified or ignored and the rest of the army piecemealed. Also, they definitely have some counters, Ion Spider Droid comes to mind.
We should keep in mind that even with speed 1 and plodding they can move 8" (a single speed 3) move every turn, so overall they may get around the board a lot faster than we think while firing twice, I think that the unstoppable and armor will be the big advantages added to the heavy ranged options, with plodding keeping them from being too fast and unconcerned keeping them from being invincible.
I do think that a lot of people will take them for cool factor regardless, and that will mean most players will need a plan to deal with them. We may see more lightsabers and impact in lists.
Also, if you do run a Medic, you can take the Seperatist one like you can take the Viper Droid.
It’s an interesting prospect, naked they are not very threatening, decked out they are deadly but super expensive. Can’t wait to see them in action
Got my first Core set for Christmas and learned to play. You are my Legion Guru!
I was kicking around the idea of the Viper droid, and because they have two activations a turn, you could observe in one activation, and aim/attack in the second.
Excited to get my hands on these. Keep up the good work
Can't wait to see how these fit in. I'm also excited to see what the rules are for the remnant battle force.
You scored the 69th comment. Youd def win the prize if i was picking a winner!
Regarding the dark trooper upgrade card, i actually think the other upgrades are not going be be allowed, the only upgrade for dark troopers will be extra dark trooper, this makes the most sense. it may be ok since the cards allow it, i think a rules review, errata will say , imp. dark troopers can only take imperial dark trooper cards for upgrades.
Chances are the older Imperial personnel upgrades have 1 wound added to them, similar to the T-Series upgrade. Sep upgrades will also likely have Sep Only added to them.
They look great! Pretty excited to throw one or two in my list
I am REALLY looking forward to using the Dark Troopers in tandem with Gideon. Dark troopers in a LAAT also feels like a good combo to get them up the field if you aren't running Gideon.
excited to expand my empire with these and Moff. Think they will look very cinematic on tabletop.
hoping that the exhaust icon changes to cycle for all other units with the release next week. XS = xenomorphic saboteur (!)
If you can take the coms tech or something else instead of the personnel dark trooper that is probably what we'll see most people doing; other then that I think the two heavies are a must, I wonder will people use the LAAT to transport these guys into close range and that way the melee sword dude will get used more often. But I think the grenade launcher and assault gunner will be the two most used heavies.
Base unit is pricey despite offering some great kw, but seems to me like they get better with every point you invest in the 2 heavy options. 10 life, 2r/8b dice with two attacks per round for 183 points seems solid.
The melee upgrade seems like it's just jedi deterrent. Not sure how much play that will get.
Thanks for the overview.
I agree, there is no way you wouldn't take 2 heavy options.
I was asking about this in the discord (if you were gonna cover the dark troopers) and it's here already! Can't wait to run them. Look nasty
I would bet that the separatist personnel will get errata that states separatist only and the empire personnel will get errata that states corps only.
The XS-IV Assault Cannon is an *Excessive* Assault Cannon
Thanks for the video Crabbok, and interesting review. I had not considered that most personel upgrades would inherit the 2 health attribute. I was "meh" about this unit, but there are definitely some upsides to this unit, so we will see how it plays out
I would have thought they'd be able to fly with their rocket feet at some stage. Maybe some sort of upgrade card or jump ability maybe. It's going to suck having to manoeuvre around cover etc.
You can only use their rockets with one of Gideon's command cards
Thanks for your insights into this cool addition.
I do think they’ll add a rule about droid units only getting droid personnel and probably give the CIS droid personnel the “CIS only” tag.
So with the protocol card you couldnt drop Iden to operative and order them with her.
XS = Express Sight maybe? Also, long live Force Choke! Yay! Also, yes, red dice are traitor dice. Good day.
Love these models! Next project is the separatists force in the core set. Just finishing off doc oc from mcp.
I just started collecting an Empire Army for this game. I will have to add these to the list.
been waiting for these for a while
With the adding into things that have come in the past, we could maybe have in the future, if with the imperial special forces (the one that came with inferno squad) be able to add cross hair from bad batch,
My kids and I just got into Legion a few months back, but they love republic and I play separatist. These make me want to start playing empire!
The unit is very versatile in how it can be used, and the rules feel like they are insteresting and strong but not oppressive.
I would like to see the Ewoks and what they can do
Nice, can‘t wait to get these
Love seeing old legends content being brought back into the new canon.
XS-IV: Four dice in excess.
Great review. I can see the sep card being updated to be sep only with the other armies getting more droids
I can’t wait for these guys!!
Between these and Gideon I am seriously contemplating getting back in to Legion lol.
As an Imperial player these look so cool and I cannot wait to get some
I wonder if there will be a card pack or anything in the new boxes to run stormtroopers differently as a remnant
These are the droids I am looking for.
I really like them, but i get the feeling that if you run them you have to build your list around them because of the cost.
At the same time I can’t wait for the moff Gideon battle force lol
If they removed "suppresive" from that heavy sword weapon and instead gave him "duelist" then it would be a good anti-lightsaber unit and would give reason for taking dodge from retinue
Expensive but very promising! Can't wait to run these! Thanks for the video!
I can’t wait to get these guys on the table, Empire plays will be rubbing their hands at this release
Really looking forward to this
I think they are going to hit very hard with the command card giving them fire support for a turn. An ATST at range 3 with Dark troopers fire supporting at range 2 could give 20 dice (5R/12B/3W), surge to crit, impact 6, and blast!! At range 2 with the right upgrades on both it could roll 23 dice in a single attack!!!
New to your channel and legion! these guys have me questioning if going clone wars was the play or not..
Me and a few of my buddies have been wanting to get into Legion. My friend Cam was wanting to do Empire and now I'm not so sure I want him to do that lol
Great video, now I want to play them !
Seem very interesting unit, think they maybe a must have
I'm just now getting into Legion and I feel like it's the perfect time. These look great and seem like a challenge to build around....I'm with it!
How about adding that Mertalizer and then reserving them for rapid reinforcements? I think RR is still a non-commander and non-op, doesn't say non-heavy yet?
I’m pretty excited to play these!
Looking forward to these and what is coming for the Return of the Jedi 40th Anniversary later this year.
Cool! To see Dark trooper miniatures! They just don't fit my army theme. I'm making an Isard list with the help of Wargaming 3D. Isard, 3 ISB stormtrooper units, Scouts, Royal Guard, LAAT, and one imperial tank. Should look great on the battlefield. I think I can maximize the Royal Guard sweeping in on the LAAT.
When running Empire I think these are a must. They are so good that I think they’ll get a points increase.
I still wonder with the talk about the Imperial Remnant battle force if dark troopers can only run in that battle force or something. So far, all signs point to that not being the case
Can’t wait to field 2 full units!
Interesting unit, sweet sculpts
XS= Extreme Slaughter 😂
As a republic player, I would love to see Cody. Does anyone know a tietable or when he will get an article?
Cycle is per activation, not round correct? Making that frag launcher useable every round which, once they get in range, these guys are DANGEROUS. 6 minis, 11-12 HP for the unit. C'mon ewoks we need help 😅
I love the look of the Dark Troopers!
Loyalty and Commader Darth Vader would be an interesting combo
These look really fun to play. I like that they are mixing things up a bit. I like verity in units.
I really hope they make clone commandos, but I'm really excited for the dark troopers!!! (this is my comment for the give away)
Cant wait for the new units!
That's an expensive unit you need to run here to make it efficient. Cool idea.
Great Video!
XS - Extream Slaughter :D
cant wait for these. somehow gone from GAR to empire atm
could you run two assault cannons on them or would is it limited one ??
You can not run multiple copies of the same upgrade.
I think I’ll wait on getting the dark troopers.
These look sweet. To bad I don’t have an empire army.
hell yeah! dark troopers!
Some additional insights
Gideon's "You have something I want" note that they keep all tokens. All tokens. Even objective tokens. Certain missions these guys could potentially run away with the game. Also consider that if you know it will come to kill points and you've got a dark trooper squad on its last leg...
Gideon has red dice defense and surge to block so he is pretty tough to kill. Mid board blob of Dark troopers and giddy = total dominance.
GAVw is an open topped transport fyi
Dark Troopers are leadership dash so cannot take suppression which means you can give them a standby token and say come at me bro.
The Frag launcher has blast. I repeat it has blast.
My $0.02 is they are bad for the game. There is no over the board strategy when playing against them it's just pray for crits/critical and impact keyword spam and even then you have to hope your opponent rolls bad or average cause if he rolls above average on defense they will very quickly kill anything that can realistically hurt them and just dominate the board.
Can’t wait to add these to my collection
Maybe with the upcoming shatterpoint they want legion to have a bigger point pool in the coming update so there a major différence between the 2 games and that why you can feild 3 of those.
Even 2 os going to be pricey in a build I'm excited .
Can’t wait for these!!!!
XS-IV = Excessive?
run 2 xs heavy guys and a t-series commander.
Excessive Force ( XS IV )
do you think they where built with the new rules in mind
Can't wait to field my Clone troopers, against these guys
Man the cost for a fully loaded unit is massive. What units or commanders do you think they will work well with?
These guys are sweet, but they are very expensive, can’t wait to see them on the tabletop