Brutally Honest - The GOOD the BAD and the UGLY about Bowers & Wilkins
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- Опубликовано: 3 июл 2024
- Adrian gets real in this episode of Brutally Honest - The Good, Bad, and Ugly of B & W speakers in this must-watch video! Watch his take on his likes and dislikes of Bowers and Wilkins speakers
Previous Brutally Honest video on McIntosh: • BRUTALLY Honest about ...
Previous Brutally Honest video on Sonus Faber: • BRUTALLY Honest About ...
Previous Brutally Honest video on Magnepan: • BRUTALLY Honest About ...
Previous Brutally Honest video on PS Audio:
• BRUTALLY Honest About ...
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Audio Excellence Inc. is a high-end audio/video store in Markham, Ontario, Canada, a suburb of Toronto. We've been in business since 1991.
Check out our interviews with designers and audio luminaries like Daryl Wilson of Wilson Audio, Paul McGowan of PS Audio, Paolo Tezzon of Sonus Faber, Wendell Diller of Magnepan, John Atkinson of Stereophile, Dan D'Agostino of D'Agostino Master Audio Systems, Nelson Pass of Pass Labs and others.
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Edited by: mike@audioexcellence.ca 
Развлечения
Thanks for your honest transparent videos Adrian. I actually started in this Hifi craze with a set of 600S3 that I purchased from you and still use today and surprisingly I see these sets still holding extremely well in their resale. I’ve gone through the last 3gens of 800 series and now have 801d4. I am amazed how fantastic resale is. As for the integration of all drivers, it has improved considerably with midrange in the current gen much better with woofers especially. You really can’t go wrong with any of the 800series - past or present. Wish you were still a Dealer.
Thanks Steve
I have watched most of the videos you have made since 2020 onwards. Thank you for making them but I have found this one to be the most informative for me of all of them. These new honest series is refreshing Thank you
Lovely and respectful as usual. And big congratulations on the 30k subscribers!!
Man, Adrian, this is my favorite type of videos about audio, period ! Thanks a buch, & keep it up.
PS: could you do the same about Dynaudio ? ( i know that you guys don't carry them, but still i think you know how they sound)
I would really like your opinion as well on Dynaudios.
B&W is responsible for my love of Hi-Fi. I heard a pair of CM10s with a Marantz amp and I never knew sound could sound like that. I owned a pair of 702s2s and they are one of the best all around speakers I have ever heard for any type of music and movies. Not for everyone I get that, but wow what a brand
Congrats!
first time commenting here. great video. i'm one of those who instantly think of B&W when "a speaker" is mentioned. think it dates back something like 20 years when I heard pair of their lower end bookshelves in friend's living room and in that room, in that setting, with that music, and that time in my life they sounded awesome. been loving their speaker ever since and never owned a single piece by the brand. i'm well aware there are better speakers (for my taste) when compared to B&W buck per buck but even after my latest substantial sound gear purchase in late 2022 my first thought after receiving my new speakers was "maybe I should have bought B&W instead". they do something right. yellow kevlar drivers in my mind forever
Another great review Adrian. As someone who had been in the entry level then midrange Hifi sales in the past ( Pioneer, Denon, Nakamichi , Polk, Tanoy, Kef ) our clients would budget $5000 - $15,000 maximum, so having your perspective is very important . I would always sell VALUE and diminishing returns for the cost . If you can afford it , yes, go for McIntosh, B&W , Martin Logan, but for 1/10th the price and in your budget, try this .
Personally I have owned Paradigm speakers since 1993 and my home theatre uses all Paradigm, expect the LCR which are the new Martin Logan Foundation 2 speakers , which sound great . I tried the B&W 703 S3 speakers and really enjoyed them, and of course I drooled over the 801s - looked fabulous, but I was surprised that the bass didn’t seem to be as well defined/ pronounced, given the specs. The voicing was out of this world, but I was honestly thinking I needed to add a sub with $75,000 speakers ???
Well said, the brand recognition with the general public is so true, as it’s marketing and word of mouth that help form opinions on brands, especially in high-end audio . When I was in my 20s , Nakamichi was the best high end audio I knew of , but our city didn’t have anything more to explore. We didn’t have internet either, so it’s all we knew.
I only came across this channel last week. Brilliant content. As a B&W owner, I can say a bad is the brightness of the tweeter. You can manage it via the selection of amps and cables. The good is that if you do tame the tweeter, it's a very revealing speaker. The continuum midrange driver is also neutral.
Thanks for the feedback
For god sake use the tone control
Cut the nonsense with the cable
People are brainwashed!!!!
Fools
Absolutely right. I recently heard the 801s with Classe Audio Amps. Absolutely mind blowing. Reveling but not harsh treble. No I heard the 805s with Macintosh and didn’t like it as a match, found it too bright. Also room treatment and speaker placement are paramount.
Adrian thanks so much for your B&W review. I sent an email requesting you to do B&W. Your response was, shortly. 3 weeks later here it is.
Brilliant, unbiased and factual review from you as usual. Based on your review, I have decided to keep my 803 D2's a bit longer.
Love your channel, please keep more coming.
Thanks
I own the new 801 D4 they are great but i think you are correct about the bass it seems a little lightweight at least in my room however it beats having too much bass so i am happy with them in the end
Congrats!
Great video
Interesting the comparison with the Martin Logan’s - all subjective of course I had those speakers and I would say the B&W’s are more ‘direct’ with more punch. Also had the original sf amatis -so was interested in your comment vs the Wilson’s. I now have the 805 and will always have them. Also have the original SF Guarneri - also a keeper. As regards marketing the first generation 800 series with the tweeter external to the cabinet was a game changer - and I believe they continued to build on that, Abbey Road also helps! Keep up the good work Adrian
Been into audio since the 80’s, you’re right the B&W has always been right at the top, can’t explain why, never had a pair, have a pair of Harbeth’s that cost in the $5k range that I love. Love these videos as well. Great to hear you say what was always my impression of these other brands. 😎
Thanks
What I would mention as a good thing is long availability of parts for replacement. At least in my experience.
I had 2 tweeter replacements on 2 different B&W speakers (damage done by people touching them). One replacement was done by dealer and second one I replaced myself.
In both cases we are talking about older models, for which, at least at that time, I still could get the parts. I think that parts availability is a big thing.
Thanks for really awesome series of videos.
Thanks
I hope you can make another one of those videos about Focal , and summarize all them with best value for money speakers !
Thank you 🙏
I own a pair of the 685 S2s. Brilliant speaker system❤.
Adrian, your comments are noted and appreciated. Naturally, each of us may have a different view on our individual systems. Personally, my year long experience with my 801 D4’s ( with Quad Eighty mono-blocs and appropriate Quad pre and phono amps) show the 801’s to reveal sublime tweeter performance, with, to me, wonderfully neutral mid-range. I agree bass is not overdeveloped BUT is wonderfully controlled and, to my ears, produce an accurate facsimile to that heard in the opera house or concert hall.
Overall the B&W 801 D4’s produce, for me a remarkably natural, realistic and unstressed sound which are remarkable, at any price.
Congrats!! Happy you love the speakers
I am a diehard AudioScienceReview fan and strongly believe in measurements, etc. That said, I appreciate tubes, LP and the differences in sound of different amplifiers. I really do enjoy your videos and take on various products and brands. One thing that people miss about B&W is that even though it measures bright at 1 meter, the in-room experience can be different. If you are listening at 5 meters, distance alone will attenuate 15 kHz by 1.6 dB whereas the voices at 200Hz won’t have any air absorption at that distance. So it’s very reasonable to have an elevated treble on standard measurements but not have an issue in the real world listening distances of B&W 801 owners are taking. This is where you trust your ears, but also can measure your results in room as well. You can say the same about speakers like Magnepan which may not measure flat yet sound spectacular in real world environments.
I have the800 d3. All McIntosh system
Did add jl audio f112 vd2subs. A pair I find them completely cohesive. Never fatiguing and very musical
Am very happy with my purchase
Thank You
Congrats!
Hi Adrian, great series!
One of my friends has the 804 D3, great sound with a good subwoofer, but without they sound a bit lean.
I have the same with my KEF XQ40's.
Can you do an episode one about KEF too?
Sir, you are correct!!! My very first pair of high end speakers were a pair of B&W Nautilus 802 speakers, which I ended up selling because I thought the bass and especially the mids sounded "Wooly" or somewhat veiled. I've listened to the new 800 series speakers extensively and, yes, like Usher speakers and some others that have the diamond tweeters, they can sound bright. I think the beryllium tweeters overall do a better job of sounding just as brilliant as diamond while not sounding bright.
Thanks for your feedback
Love your videos! I’m not sure where to ask this, but this is the most recent video in which to comment. How is the best way to resell older audio equipment? I mean, if you have some great equipment, but are upgrading, or changing components, how do you get value out of your “old” stuff? E-bay? Dealer trade in? Trade magazine adds? I suppose it depends on the item. I hesitate to upgrade for fear of not being to easily sell my older items.
I hope we get a chance to hear your story on KEF, especially the new Reference series Meta versions.
Thanks for another great video! Would love to hear your take on legacy audio as well! There seems to be very little coverage on RUclips with respect to their offerings
I feel your pain!!!!!
@@bobr9605 do you own legacys??
@@sheldonunrau8818 I do, three items. a pair of focus SE, a pair of Expressions. and an IV4 Ultra Amplifier.
ask and you shall receive!!! new video the good the bad and the ugly for legacy audio. a good video
My Bowers and Wilkins 802D2 speakers went from good sound to fantastic sound when I added more power (600 and 1200 watts at 8 and 4 ohms), bi-wired and increased bass by 3DBs with my pre-amp.
I own a pair of 800D's and would concur regarding the mids 👍
I have a pair of 804 D3s. I hope my commentary might help others with their B&Ws, or at least this particular speaker. When I bought these, I got them for $10,000 CDN, and compared to any other speakers that I demo'd in that price range at the time, there was no comparison to my ears. Once I got them home, it took a long time for break-in - almost three months. And I am talking about that sudden shift of "ahhh, that's the level I expected" moment. You probably know what I am talking about. Placement was not easy; after many moves and shifts and toes, they are now in a perfect triangle of about 90 inches (tweeter to tweeter, tweeter to ears) with a toe that points to about 3' behind my ears. Every room is different of course - my listening room is 12 by 15', the front being the 12 foot width. I have bass traps and some wall treatment. The speakers are 53" from the front wall, and 33" from the side walls. The one thing that disappointed me a bit was the bass. Not the bass notes, which are well-defined, but the impact, especially in the lowest registers. I remedied that by purchasing a B&W DB3D sub. The app that you download lets you select your speaker model, then using your phone, tunes the sub based on the room acoustics and the speaker. This did an amazing job, and now I have the impact I was looking for. The dealer did tell me at the time that nearly all their B&W customers purchased a sub, which tells you something. The tweeter and highs are wonderful, clear and not screechy at all - but cabling and gear are critical. I have Nordost Frey 2 speaker cables and Tyr 2 interconnects. My amp in a Bryston 4B3 (300 wpc) and a Michi P5 preamp. I find the midrange very accurate - not too much or too little of anything. If you want a speaker to reveal the exact recording, then this will do that. And as far as the B&W reputation, any speaker that is used in one of the major recording studies in the world, Abbey Road, with all its history, has to be the advertising coup of the modern audio world. So to conclude, B&Ws can't be just dropped in anywhere in a room; you need to really explore positioning. And cabling and gear are critical. They reproduce faithfully the recordings, and in that regard, the bad sound as bad as they are, but good and great recordings are amazing and wonderful.
Thanks for sharing
Cable nonsense ...
So it toke you 2 months to get used to them!
Hi, Bob: Thanks for this excellent review of your experience: My 45 year old B & W 804’s died (tweeter on one side, mid-range on the other) after many years of wonderful listening. I am currently looking at the 804 D4’s, similar to the ones you have. I listened, as well, to equivalently-priced Totem & Sonus Faber before settling on B & W. On first listening at a dealer who was using a Naim to drive the B + W 804 D4’s I was very disappointed in what I heard: Ok sound stage, crummy bass considering their price and mediocre midrange and a tinny overall sound. I then found another dealer who was able to use Bryston equipment similar to my own (Two Bryston 3B-ST amps and a BDA-1 DAC) to drive the 804 D4’s which had previously been demo’d frequently by others before my visit. What a difference! The soundstage was almost magical - on good recordings it was easy to point out where each of the musicians were and one could easily hear the type of venue used for the recording. The bass was fast, accurate and projected the different timbres of bass drum, timpani and cellos very accurately. The mid-range was superb - I would say the most impressive aspect of this set up. I am a choral musician and recordings that I had participated in sounded real - really real. And, as you wrote these speakers can be merciless with bad recordings. So, like you wrote, where you play them, with what equipment and with what burn in and with what quality of recording all make a huge difference with these speakers. Their current price of $20, 000 CAD made me gasp initially when I compared that to the $5,500 CAD my 804 cost in the early 1980’s. However I used the Canadian Government online inflation calculator to discover that $ 5,500 in the early 1980’s is now equivalent to $20,000 CAD in 2024. I will buy the 804 D4’s
Professional review . Some what I thought
In my experience b & W s tend to work well with vintage Denon ,H.K amps especially H.k. gives them that push!.Note if the tweeter inverts it usually can be pushed back in when slighly bent at least on there bookshelf speakers such as the 686s.Dont play them to loud !
The speaker manufacturers with entry level products get more name recognition than the manufacturers with only high end products. The key to having low end products is that these products enhance the brand rather than tarnish it. I think quality entry level products has been B&W’s basis for success.
I respect what you say I would ignore anyone that said you were slugging a company. I love these videos. I’d love to hear your thoughts on simaudio
B&W have been around forever and I think when British HiFi made it's mark here, it was B&W that stood out as best british speaker maker. They also had more then a few inexpensive lines in the 80s and 90s. I still have my CDM1s, but i think all of the models below the 800 series need some crossover upgrades. Replacing the Benic Capacitors with Film caps elevates the sound quality. Comparing one upgraded speaker to the non-upgraded speakers, the non-upgraded sounded closed in and tiny and I thought it might be broken, but it was just the difference in Capacitors. Older B&Ws had good bones and benefit from some TLC.
at about the 7:00 mark you point to exactly the issue I have with B&W. Bass and dynamics. It is as clear and clean as any can be. I've always said if I was primarily a jazz listener, B&W would be my choice. If I were classical. Martin Logan would be my go-to. But because I'm rock, contemporary and alternative, its hands down Legacy Audio, with Revel as a close second. If all I played were my childhood favorites, I would not like the Legacy's Not because the Legacy can't play them, it's because the recordings can't show off what the Legacys can do.
Nice review. Which speakers would you buy for the US$38000 , these speakers go for? What do you think is a better option? Thank you!
AN HONEST ASSESSMENT OF THE HIGHER END OF THE B&W LINE OF SPEAKERS, AND VERY WELL DONE, ADRIAN. HOWEVER, MY ULTIMATE TAKE ON YOUR REVIEW IS THAT IT'S NOT THAT DIFFICULT TO FIND OTHER BRANDS THAT ARE LESS EXPENSIVE, SOUND BETTER, AND DON'T HAVE THE DRAWBACKS OF THE B&W'S. I ENJOY YOUR REVIEWS - PLEASE KEEP THEM COMING!
Thanks
Like your series of GBU post! Parasound?
Great video Adrian. The main competitor to Bowers n Wilkins is KEF.
Do you sell KEF products & if no why not?
I own the 802D and love it. My amplifier is the GamuT DI 150 and it worked perfect but GamuT does no longer support it.
So, my question: what amplifier should I buy?
My experience has showed me that the mid is the most difficult diver to set… may often be « specialized » (depending the type of music)… but very difficult to have it neutral for a wide range of music…
800 Nautilus paired with a good amp ( Classe Audio) will deliver what B&W was made famous for. A true to the source sound, detailed but yet balanced. From D2 onwards started becoming brighter.
I use the 805Ns as studio monitors for music production and it’s the best investment I have ever made.
Note: 800 series (especially Nautilus and early D) is a choice of many recording studios, especially for mastering sessions. Some of them are: Abbey Road, Skywalker Sound (LUCASFILM), Emil Berliner/Deutsche Gramophone Studios, Sony Music Studios (Tokyo), Daft Studios (Belgium), Electrical Audio Recording Studios (Chicago), TELDEX STUDIOS (Berlin), Boston/Chicago/Munich Symphony Orchestra Studios, Polyhymnia International (ex-PHILLIPS), Studio 301 (Germany) and many more.
Since you did a review on B&W speakers, please do a video on Focal speakers!! Because these two are probably the most popular audiophile speakers, and probably biggest rivals. I love Focal sound more than B&W.
Abbey Road Studios love the 801 (Matrix, Nautilus, ...). They were used to mix many, many classical recordings.
I have B&W. They are amazing speakers but have a signature sound that tend to be bright but I love that but perhaps others may want a more neutral speaker which I find frankly boring. I paired the speakers with REL Subs and the sound is incredible. Adding a dedicated sub to the B&W is a requirement. I want my speakers to have a signature sound and B&W cannot be mistaken for another speaker.
Had the 804 D3s and upgraded to D4s before the big price change, only spent $2K after trade-in at my dealer - $11.5K new in Canadian dollars. Now it is $18K. For under $12K I haven't heard anything better as an all-rounder, using a Gryphon Diablo 300 and Transparent cabling, sources a Lumin P1 and Linn LP12 Selekt with Grado Reference 3 cart. The D4 is a significant step up from the D3 in almost every sonic category, and particularly so in terms of build quality and cabinet inertness. My caveats are pretty much echoing most other B&W owners here, attention to detail with resonance control tweaks, room treatment, sufficient power, very good cables and power conditioning/grounding. Once you have the balance right and achieve system synergy, 800 series B&Ws are wonderfully revealing and insightful speakers which play loud without noticeable strain, with as mentioned suitably high-powered quality amplification.
Congrats!
Very interesting comments. I own three pairs of B&Ws, 803D2, PM1, and 804D3. First, I would add that the pairing of B&W with McIntosh is probably one of the reasons of their success. Most of the time when you see a Mac, you see B&W speakers. In terms of the bass response, I would tend to disagree with that comment. I had the chance to compare my 804Ds to Sonus Faber Olympica NOVA III ($21,000/pair) and Totem Element Metal V2 (also $21,000/pair), and I find the bottom end of the B&Ws much deeper. There was no comparison to the ability of the B&Ws to go low. Yes, the Martin Logans you refer to might go deeper, but they do have a 12" sub. If someone likes a bright sound with good bass, then B&W 800 series will give them a sound they like. And yes, unfortunately since COVID, the price of them has nearly doubled.
You do a very good job at these good and bad videos. I enjoy them. I wonder what direction B&W will take now that they are owned by the big conglomerate.
I would bet that they’ll movie move 800 series to China like they did the other lines.
Hello. I have ordered bowers 706 s2 without demo as demo is not possible where I live . I will be pairing them with my old Harman Kardon 3380 stereo receiver. I have heard reviews that these speakers sound bright / harsh so one cannot listen for too long ? Does one have to do any tonal adjustments to 706 s2 for listening?
Wonder if possible to do a review on 801 d4 signature ? Cheers
Thanks for another great video Adrian. An observation and a question; B&W was very smart with their association with Abbey Road Studios. Have you listened to the Nautalist and what are your observation of it? Best regards Tom eh
No I have not unfortunately
I was confused by the comments about being a bit bright in the tweeter and recessed midrange. That sounds more like the D1, D2 era. I have a D3 and would say the tweeter never calls attention to itself (near perfection) but the mids are lifted a few DB. Measurements confirm. For most music, this adds clarity but for material heavy in the upper midrange (like metal or 80:s recordings) it can be shouty at higher volumes. They also hog power. The more they get, the better they sound. Overall, very good end result on most music.
Still have the 801's from mid 80's ! Very inefficient though... Driven by CJ's. Still sounds amazing almost 50 years later !
Still have my vintage 1995 Matrix 805s. The factory-supplied frequency response graphs show a deviation of +/- 1.75 dB, from 55Hz to 18KHz. They are extremely neutral and uncolored. One of my audio buddies has mint pair of 801 series 2s, which are +/- 1.25 dB. The B&Ws from the late 70s through the mid-to-late 90s were extremely accurate.
I honestly liked the 805d4 the best of the bunch.
I have the 805 D4, they don't like poor recordings, they will tell you as much through the tweeter. Play a super record and they are lovely.
At that price i find there are so many other speakers to choose from. And more musical too. And it takes alot of trying diff amps to not get the very annoying highs.
Adrian were you ever an Audio Research dealer and if not then or now, what’s your opinion of the company and products? If not why? I’m just curious and if you ever were a dealer, your prospective as always in a video would be fascinating. Adrian how are those McIntosh speakers behind you, this is the second time that I have seen them in one of your videos or should I say really noticed them?
No I have never been an ARC dealer, but I did sell them a long time ago as an employee of a store. Love the transparency and detail.
I cannot comment about the 800 series as my spouse would divorce me were i to pull the trigger. I’m a Rotel/B&W guy. I currently own the CM10 (zone 2), 5 and Center (AV) with no plans to upgrade.. What I can say however is that what you feed them determines what you hear. If you feed them good recordings over top quality gear, you will be rewarded. Poorly recorded music, and files will sound terrible. Secondly, your room acoustics, as with any speaker must be considered. PS: CM series boxes are excellent. Thanks for reminding me as to why its important not to toss them.
Thanks for sharing
I made my other comment about the bass before you mentioned
Its kind of funny you also said it does not have good bass...
Interesting for the money I would expect a full range speaker
602S3 was a great intro to hifi for me.
The new ones are ugly and sound a bit bright to me . Also they are being built to a weight spec now so they can ship more in containers, basically seem like a box movers now.
The D4 series is the one.
I tried the B&W 801 with a pair of McIntosh 601's playing the Chris Jones No Sanctuary Here from the Roadhouses & Automobiles CD, I found it was slow sounding and lacked something, any thoughts?
McIntosh is not the fastest amp out there.
I’ll second the above comment. I know it’s trendy to match B&W with Macintosh but in all honesty IMHO they don’t match. The best match I have experienced with the 800 series is CLASSE AUDIO, CHORD, Mitschi or MARANTZ.
As many people say they’re quite bright speakers so they need an amp that will “tame” that diamond tweeter. So you need something with headroom (so power) to not sound thin and a “warmer” yet detailed and neutral character
CLASSE AUDIO is the perfect match for this. Abbey Road studios power their 801s with CLASSE AUDIO too.
@@gpapa31 I have the Focal Electra 1028 be speakers and thought they were bright with my Simaudio Titan, so I purchased the McIntosh MA12000, we'll see how it sounds using the tubs and solid state combination of the integrated... if that doesn't fix the issue, I'll sell them and try the Polk SDA 1.2TL speakers I'm refurbishing
The complains about packaging I can't follow for the 80x D4. The 803, 802 and 801 can be rolled out the packing, an the packing is actually fine every time any B&W come along anyhow. The comparison with Martin Logan is weired, because it is an electrostatic speaker with subwoofer, with other issues in bass. And you can't touch the tweeter dome anymore, all have mounted grills with a definded acoustic influence.
The main fault in handling B&W speakers is not to give them extensive and intensive burn-in-time, and I mean 100h+ incl. very high volume. The cause are they mid drivers, they have no explicit surround, similar to some famous fullrange drivers by Fostex i.e., so they need similar treatment. I understand that this is a difficult task for a dealer to prepare and present a speaker like that.
So... Sonus Fiber should be a better value $ for $? but, what about the resale value between the 2?
If I was asked that Question I wouls say Nakamichi Then B&W, Bose??? Who in their right mind would buy Bose??? So What do you Think Of Nakamichi Products, Maybe we can see a Video from you about them? Old and New.
Those B&W go down to 18hz lol best bass in that range??? Then when you reviewed the Serafino you said the bass was booming and that speaker don’t break 30hz? I’m confused,I don’t own B&W just curious about that discrepancy
i dont like 803s but if someone gave me i accept it
hahaha same here!! 😂
The bad. I have some 706s and I designed and built my own speakers for $500 that completely smoke my 706 reference speakers. Cos the 706s must be voiced controversially on purpose to sound bad (so their ridiculously expensive speakers sound better). On the 706s the upper highs are there but the voice sound is muffly. Not throaty enough! I bought them without hearing them first. Don't do that! This video is about good and bad, so why can't I slag my speakers? They look good though. No way are any B&Ws ugly. Funny how the Nautilus have the best voice sound going (nice and throaty) and how expensive are they? Another thing, the Nautilus (on YT) sounds like my built speakers way more than the 706s do. 😅
I added a B&W PV1 sub woofer to my surround sound system. The magazines stopped the category for "Best sub-woofer" because the PV1 and then the PV1D won hands down every year.
I purchased second hand. Good deal. I collected it so had no packaging.
Some years later it stopped working. I contacted B&W and their offer was a fixed price deal (a third of the second hand price, a fifth of the new cost) and if they could not fix the fault would supply a refurbished speaker for no extra charge. Not only that they sent me a box and two days later booked for collection (all included fixed price). A week after and my speaker was returned and has been working since. This level of service is remarkable from any supplier. Some other UK based companies made a cut off to models over than 10 years. I know Quad were servicing 30 old amplifiers but then changed hands. And Linn train dealers to retro fit upgrades to their turntables so that you can get a 45 year old Sondek almost brought up to the level of the current one but that could be more like grandpa's axe - what part has not been changed?
I have the impression that many of the 800 series in particular are picky about the source and amplification equipment and do no flavours to a poor choice of matching. So audition before buying a different amplifier or using them with your existing equipment. But that applies to any component as they have to satisfy you and you have to live with them.
IN your background, Adrian, are the "new "Macintosh speakers you recently treated us to one of your infamous "unboxing" videos :-) I bet they sound REALLY good . . . BUT! . . . although "retro" is fashionable these days, Macintosh has taken that theme to MY eyes a little too far :- ) they look so old! I mean from the 50's old ! LOL They look VERY well made however but . . .
Thanks for your GBU videos! I've had B&W in the past - good not ugly but my Dynaudio's smoke everyone that I've either owned or tried. YES, B&W packaging is awful
B&W are infamously ferocious
I heard they have no bass...
I was ok with the yellow cone they had for years but I hate the new silver cone..
Also people say they are for classic music...
I had a pair of B & W Silver Signature 30 for 25 years. Loved the tweeter and mid range on that. Could be because of all the silver wiring and voice coils. The bass was a little lacking though, but the rest was so good it was difficult to let go.
Silver Signature was a fantastic speaker
Thanks for taking the time to reply@@adrianlow2114. I really enjoy your channel. Might add, I have had the SF Serafino G2 for 3 months now. Their mid and upper range gives a similar enjoyment to what I experienced with the Silver Signatures, with some added bass.
For the 801's that price point encompasses such a huge field. Where is the value?
The 800 series tweeter when company comes over "Oh look a microphone! Oopsm, sorry about that. Can I glue it back on for you? Was it expensive? Nooo...everything is fine!"
lol
I feel they are 25% overpriced for their value. But then again, looking at those Macintosh stand mounts behind you don’t look bad but would look way better without the grills on.
Good one, B&W actually gets too much of a bad rap in the HiFi world, they sound GREAT, look GREAT, and SELL GREAT! Probably not the best value, but resale of them makes up for it.
I guess on the same token, pls now do FOCAL!
Whenever I’ve heard B&W in stores they always sound so thin, lean. But yes, tweeter has always come across as crystal clear and airy. Just couldn’t live with the thin sound.
Why not B&W? In short they sound like brawlers. My buddy has 2 sets of Signatures (four speakers) driven by a rack of Bryston 7s. They make a lot of sound but it's rough on the ears. Highs are sharp, and the bass is poor at best. They require a sub to round out the lows. Meanwhile a set of Bryston Model Ts that cost 1/2 as much have amazing gut punching bass with no flab or slowness, and crystal clear highs. At least for me the VALUE of competitive towers overwhelms the B&Ws. To me they are "showoff" speakers. Much like Silver Oak wine- so overpriced the middle quality they deliver leaves one disappointed and irritated.
Bowers & Wilkins has excellent market penetration/brand awareness not the least because unlike most of the other pretentious pretenders with their OUTRAGEOUS prices (can I say: "Ripoff"?🤔 Better yet, "Total Ripoff!"?🧐😱🙄), B&W has been around for over 55 years! And counting! Getting to plaster a 🧐"Queen's Award for Excellence"🧐 all over your marketing material from magazine advertisements to product brochures for decades on end doesn't hurt either!
Never mind that ANY company that does a decent volume of exports from England (& therefore pays a corresponding fat wad of taxes to help with the upkeep of Buckingham Palace...🤨) gets one of these "awards", to the point where they've become a laughing stock amongst the British public...
As for the good, well, there is that remarkable tweeter. As for the bad, in fact it merits an "ugly", is that HORRID design abortion called the "FST" midrange. The driver sounds like you're trying to strangle human voices & much of everything else over the range it covers. The physics behind neither make an sense NOR does the driver technology work as merchandised.
By using a fixed surround, or at least a rather inflexible one that's nothing more than a crap piece of open-cell foam that'll rot into dust after a decade or two, your driver basically mostly generates sound via the mechanism of CONE BREAKUP!
This is FURTHER magnified by the stupidity of trying to use the most rigid diaphragm possible that still CHEAP TO MAKE.
Anyone ever heard of the concept of an irresistible force trying to move an immovable object? Step right up to the 5-figure priced screwups that constitute the entire 800D-series line! The little 2-way 805D hasn't quite crossed the $10k unobtainium pricing (in US Dollars, anyway...🫤), & yet because it doesn't have a midrange driver, it is BY FAR the best sounding speaker in the entire series!
In fact, if you disagree, I DARE any B&W 800-804D owner to do a side-by-side audition between their speaker model & the VASTLY better sounding 805D.
Even the bass of the 805D sounds better, lacking only the extension that the others only deliver on paper anyway.
Someone else here posts that their solution was to purchase a B&W subwoofer. Why?
For the same or less money, you could buy a sub from JL Audio; even the cheapest D-series JL sub runs rings around EVERYONE else's that I've yet heard. You can "hear" any old subwoofer.
But a JL you don't; you just FEEL it doing what a truly SOTA subwoofer can do.
Something that NO British subwoofer (REL in particular, truly overrated & shoddy British build quality to boot!🧐) I've ever heard is...
Good thing that you didn't mention all the gob-awful nastiness from ALL the series & models beneath the 800D series; B&W makes amongst THE most glary, fatiguing, & unlistenably obnoxious tweeters of any manufacturer out there, courtesy of the use THE WORST tweeter material possible: aluminium.
Seems JM Labs has the same problems with their speaker lines. All the expensive ones use THE very best (pure!) beryllium tweeter I have heard & the highs are fabulously clean, smooth, detailed, & yet completely unfatiguing.
Step down to any models that don't use it, & you get this TRULY HIDEOUS SOUNDING tweeter made of some hybrid of magnesium and...wait for it... aluminium!
Both speaker companies also have the same marketing problem: they've priced themselves beyond any semblance of "value" & are just plain unaffordable to us mere mortals (which probably don't constitute even a minute fraction of your customers these days Adrian!😉).
Also, neither company's core technologies have moved forward in any meaningful way at all in the last 10 or 20 years, pretty since their founders (& their brains, really) departed from day-to-day operations, John Bowers or Jacques Mahul, who founded & once ran their respective companies.
Yeah, the B&W diamond tweeter is fabulous. Even if it's actually NOT a diamond tweeter so much as it is a PLATINUM TWEETER with a vapour deposition of diamond bonded to it.
Accuton uses a PURE diamond tweeter, AND they make a pure diamond midrange as well! Your move, B&W!
ESPECIALLY when you expect to get $50k for a pair of your speakers with THE WORST midrange driver in any speaker currently available for home use.
And PERHAPS "Continuum" (whatever the frap it REALLY is🤫) is a "better" material than the Kevlar that it replaced.
But I can't hear it. Not in that FST disaster of a midrange of theirs.
The b&w line doesn't hit the lows that I need sadly. I ultimately invested in the Sonus Faber Sonetto range which deliver consistently across my music taste
Go for 2006 B&W DM 604 S3 + Coax Speaker Cables then !!!
B&W 801 D4 Signatures. $50,000 for "decent" speakers :)
Back in the day, their brochures and ads invariably mentioned two VERY FAMOUS recording studios that used their speakers. Lucas Sound, and Abbey Road Studios. The ultimate in name dropping. I think B&W marketing has always managed to find little nuggets that resonate with the educated, well informed but non audiophile demographic.
Of course they also went on and on about how their Kevlar drivers are made from the same material as bullet proof vests. Not sure I'd be using any of those yellow drivers to make a DIY riot shield, but I digress.
Of late, they have pulled off some major coups in the car audio space by partnering with brands that are popular with the younger, affluent and hashtag savvy demographic. BMW, Volvo/Polestar, Maserati and McLaren. Many of those are considered "best in class" setups, so I would argue that all that initial development cost was "marketing money" which has "pied pipered" customers into B&W showrooms.
Nevermind B&W look at the new McIntosh spkrs next to Adrian, they look fantastic! Can't wait for the review. I demo'd B&W with Anthem and everything was awful. I went back again and listened to them again but I still wasn't impressed. I even listened to B&W with McIntosh and Accuphase and I still wasn't impressed. Esthetically, they are also brute ugly.
All in all , i think b&w are the worst sounding speakers i know.
B&W speakers have NO BASS whatsoever!
All B&W speakers do, is throw all this clarity and detail at you and leave all the needed low frequency stuff behind!
That to me that is "THE UGLY" about the brand.
The Ugly section should have been the cardboard box and the potential tweeter damage.
My brother and certain friends all have B&W from the 90’s and even more recent.
Most have bookshelf’s with large subs. I never really understood what they were trying to accomplish. Too deep bass heavy and bright highs with no midrange or mid bass presence.
I never heard any B&W tower type speakers. I would think quite good. I never realized how costly the tower speakers are. Insane.
yeah a lot of people seem to think they are being super smart by getting bookshelves and a sub. To me floorstanders will almost always sound better.
Lottery. MBL