be nice to the people you genuinely enjoy. it's ok to tease them sometimes, but just remember that if you ONLY tease them, they might stop believing that you actually care, too. timestamps ⬇ 00:00 - Intro 00:58 - Why do people bully 01:36 - Going too far 02:32 - Streamers don't know you. 04:30 - "Jokes" fall flat. 05:23 - Streamers can't react 06:22 - Agency VTubers + bullying 07:23 - TECHNICALLY nothing is wrong 08:09 - It's not funny 09:21 - Constant bullying affects people 10:42 - Streamers act dumb for entertainment 11:15 - If you care about a streamer, stop. 12:26 - It builds up 13:40 - If you care, be careful 14:06 - Check in on your friends 14:29 - End
I'm very against bullying a streamer. Teasing them sometimes, yes, but a lot of dudes take it too far too often. It's not fun or cute or silly, it's a self-report. I'll generally mock the NPCs for being dumb, but rarely ever say mean things to the streamer unless it's going to make them laugh and always in context to what they're doing.
I think there's a good baseline idea for how to figure it out! Pretty much: 'Does this insult the person that I'm talking to directly as a person, or does it insult something that I know they love directly?' If the answer is yes, it's probably better to just not say it. If the answer is either no or iffy (insulting their outfit in a game or something), you're probably gonna be fine. That's my metric anyways.
And the people that are "teasing" you probably don't have the social intellect to process the fact that you are not friends with them, so I'd venture to say it's not a one-sided issue.
Probably the weirdest one i dealt with was one person kept trying to bully me into doing lewd ASMR when I had no interest in it.(This happening multiple times over several months) It got to the point I had talked to them in private they told me quite being stuck up or snob. Then used the excuse well i talk to my family this way but I'm not your family. the biggest thing is if you keep bullying someone don't be all upset if they suddenly block you because you got sick of them.
There is such a fine line between teasing and bullying that I don't even try to tease someone who doesn't know me personally. It's even harder online since text sometimes fails to convey the speaker's tone, causing messages to come off meaner than intended. I don't want to be seen as a bully, even accidentally. I do wonder if some vtubers who lean into being "bullied" by chat for content are actually not as unaffected as they appear. Like, I wonder if Gura from Hololive is actually okay with being "bullied" by chat for being "bad" at math. She sometimes leans into that aspect of her persona, even making references to being bad at math too, so it appears that she's unaffected by those teasing remarks. But, I wonder if that's the case off stream. It's hard to tell sometimes since constantly being teased about something can get under the thickest skin after a long enough time.
Teasing and bullying to me are different, but I guess that's literally the point of this video. Personally, I try to be quiet, overall. But occasionally I chime in with a joke or two. But never beyond that. Really the thing is, just don't run stuff into the ground
YEH exaaactly, never do it so much that it gets old. There's that old rule of threes, where after the third time something gets boring, i think that probably applies to teasing jokes too tbh
It reminds me of the kronii subway sandwich stream where she put them in a blender and for a week it was fine but it went past a year and it kept going to a point where she was just over it because it was a year ago and stopped eating subway and getting "reminders" was more exhausting hearing it everyday than telling people to please stop it
EXACTLY, YES, I see people take teasing jokes WAY too far to the point where they are just nooott any fun anymore. Which sucks, cus yeah, they are fun at first! It's kind of just a matter of regulation, gotta keep in mind just how much something is being said along with if it's hurtful to begin with.
So many good points in this video: - I find myself skipping over messages that I find rude or on the verge of rude constantly for the exact reason you said. To not encourage it. - Friendly banter! Exactly! What friends say to each other and is acceptable will not be the same from streamer to chatter. This doesn't get discussed enough. - Jokes are constantly beat to death. My jump king streams were ruthless. I tried so much to play along with the 'try going up' 'is this a fall guys stream' etc. jokes and even to this day when I tell my chat I'm not playing the dlc they still are bringing it up after I've said no. No means no! - Internalization. Yes. If people constantly tell you something, whether true or not, it has the potential to be a self fulfilling prophecy. Whether true or not, you'll internalize it and begin to question: Am I really stupid? Am I really not good enough? - "Technically not against the rules." This is a hard one because you're right, it builds up. When is enough, enough? There has to be a point where the chatter gets timed out, but then again it's so much easier said then done. Very glad you made this video. Teasing can be a slippery slope into bullying.
I remember a situation I was in a while back for a streamer I'd just started following. She showed some embarassment at one of those heart locket gifs having been made for her, so the community spammed it and lovebombed her. I joined in because it was fun and goofy. And when she responded with further embarassment I almost said "Yeah, get loved and affectioned, idiot." But I stopped before hitting enter. I had only been in there for two days. I'm not sure how that message would have been recieved. Would she have correctly interpreted it as me being a smartass, or would the "idiot" override everything else? And this video co firms to me I made the right decision just... deleting the message before sending it. Also, to your point about girls pretending to be dumb, I love how quickly "girlfailure" went from a (sometimes mocking) counter of "girlboss" to being embraced by some female content creators as a sign of "I am bad at game, please laugh with/at me."
People should only be teasing the steamer IF there alright with it because it’s not good for the streamer if they have to always go through it because it could start to get to them
Another thing is back seating without the streamers imput everyone wants to have the streamer have a good experience the problem you have is the people wanting to force the streamer to having the "Perfect" experience like when Undertale was hype view viewers would threaten to destroy channels if they didn't play pacifist runs so the streamer would have the "best" experience because they wanted to experience the "reaction of the streamer" seeing everything alot of streamers lost their channels by either stopping the game and ignoring requests or trying to play the game with forced reactions instead of them just letting them play the game
This is something I see a lot when streamers play video games, especially if they do not play a lot of games. I honestly think it's far more entertaining when the streamer is not good at the game, and I mean that in the best way possible. It puts me on the edge of my seat, it's interesting to see how they come up with ways to complete a task in a way I wouldn't have done it. Why would anyone want to bully that? That's peak entertainment, and they should be encouraged. Not back-seated, not made fun of, but _encouraged._
What's worse about the backseaters is that a fair amount of them probably genuinely want to help you optimise your character or help you get from A to B as quickly as possible first time but they don't seem to get that the fun comes from the fact that the streamer is "bad at the game" in the first place. They don't seem to get that most of the enjoyment comes from watching the streamer try, fail and blunder their way to the top. If the streamer is going to optimise their character build, if the streamer is going to get things right first time every time, if the streamer knows how to tweak the game to abuse the character's AI ect. The game and the stream loses its magic and thus becomes more boring than had the streamer legitimately struggled through their lack of knowledge and trialled and errored their way to victory. The celebrations mean more when you finally beat the boss after the fifteenth try, not when you've optimised your account and breezed through the boss with ease thanks to the worldly knowledge of th chat who played it to death from release onwards.
I agree. I also think... Acting overly familiar with people online, vs not acting familiar... are equally as destructive... The pressure to act overly-familiar, yet not too familiar, is nuts on social media... so I often avoid it, but when I do do it... I screw up and overshare in a manner that implies I've got the foot half out the door whilst doing it. P.S. I am guilty as charged. And my god, do I hate and wish I could stop existing occassionally for it, cause its just so out of character for me... I'm not even like... Wanting the attention per say, its just that... I need attention and mistakenly decided that the internet is where I'm gonna get it. And no shocker Kozii hasn't read/interacted with my comments, cause she'd probably be reinforcing this toxic behaviour of mine where I try to share overly personal stuff & receive validation for my overly personal emotions about overly touchy/semi-touchy subjects which she would hypothetically, if she bothered to, have to go out of her way to respond to in a way that would be satisfying enough for me to finally chill and stop typing like this in the comment section of these videos... Yet uhh... I think some of my oversharing is justifiable, given that this topic is something that relates heavily with social interactions like the ones I have and type like this one herein & whether or not this in of itself, is invasive just like how bullying a streamer(or unintentionally bullying with the intent to just joke and have fun teasing) is invasive. P.S. and I got into massive trouble(on a discord server called Rifuu's sheep cafe, people there didn't share or understand my humour, probs also cause it's, as you said, the kind of humour that friends share between themselves... I didn't know it at the time and just thought I could go wild with it and get instant feedback - with my cognitive biases filtering out the exceptions cause "those people arent true people, they're just normies and NPC's", or so I thought back then and still occasionally slip back to thinking) when I made a joke repeatedly, trying to get arise out of people cause of how clever I knew I was, I just was being ignored & thought I was being ignored, despite the real kicker being that people were hearing it, getting grossed out, and reporting me for it. The joke was literally, more of a catch phrase than anything else, that I admittedly felt massively betrayed by people, namely, online people, purposely targeting me when I did things, meanwhile others did things and got off Scott free it felt like... I guess I just do things with a level of intensity and a level of desperation, that people don't like? I dunno. One joke was "I thlam your Ponis in the car door" cause, get it, Rifuushi has a ponytail... and the main one, well... it begins with a word that rhymes with nape plus dy, and ends with napedy... and is in actuality, said with the words flipped too, depending whichever order you want to say'em in.
The most awkward thing is that we're kinda given false hope by those massive videos with those big jokes that challenge the boundaries of humour... And we try and succeed in the same quality of humour, yet are dissapointed to find that other people online, don't find it funny... "Fucking normies, REEEE", one might say... and they might not necessarily be wrong, but it is an oversimplification of the human psyche, because jokes require a level of trust in order to be funny in the first place... and when people don't possess that trust, that sense of being in the joke, and knowing that it's a joke... well... THEN you get normies... problem is, you also get outcasts... and man, it is very disappointing and crushing! Yet you have no idea why... cause you're in denial that people find your jokes terrible, as there's a massive audience out there online who's clearly enjoying that style of humour in the present and right now. So you keep pushing harder and harder and harder... until you hit a nerve with someone and everything's crashing and burning because you had the ego, the audacity, to keep pushing your jokes in the WRONG way... even though, for all you know, you were just in the wrong crowd where all the normies are, so "all their opinions" can be dismissed...
I remember me and chat bullying our Oshi with a cascade of superchats. She has a cute animation for it and likes to voice act on top of it. She’s a tough girl, handles criticism and awful comments from aholes better than most but those happen rarely, for the most part we try to be supportive and balance the teasing. You made a great point tho, newcomers seeing our more friendly way of teasing might not necessarily know how to take it, what it really means and (some) find it off putting or (others) think it’s ok to just be outright disrespectful (not knowing the inside jokes and all).
Thank you for your honest opinions about this topic it is appreciated!! This reminded me it is ok to be positive or supportive as long as long im not overdoing it. Ive been watching someone regularly lately im nothing but respectful however i think i try too hard so if it means anything someone took your advice in hopes of being a better person in this large community of viewers & entertainers alike!!!
I've had this happen where certain people don't bully me per say but there are like some that give me random criticism about how I should be like another streamer. Another person gives me art critique that just comes off as them wanting to make me feel like my art is crap (I made my own model and they always have something to say about it) I just ignore these people now
Pretty sure that type of viewer latches onto these women because they usually don't have to face any repercussion for that 😒 i think if the streamer cant nip it in the bud their community has to come together to do it if they also arent feeling those comments
Personally only tease my close friends. I fall into the crowd of people who get uncomfortable when I see/hear the teasing get what I perceive as too harsh since I'm kinda worried about the target getting upset and blowing up or just them just feeling like shit. I typically just lurk in chats unless the topic gets onto something I'm really into then I tend to yap(positive).
8:38 Ah, so war crimes! Haven't finished the video yet but looks like another banger. I never thought about it before since the clips I see have the streamer bounce off chat pretty seamlessly, seems like it's more complicated than that sometimes
Hmmm, I don't think so, but it's a similar idea. I think it differs because it's a live environment, and because a lot of the time the teasing that grates on a streamer is because of the sheer number of people that do it even with harmless intent. Say a hundred people visit a stream for the day, but 5 of them make the same joke about how bad a streamer was at a game the day before, or something like that- The first one may not really hurt that much, and it's just a simple thing. But after the 5th, the 10th, the 50th time... you start believing it, or it starts to hurt.
i understand that for some people, teasing a streamer can be funny, or as you said "can be the best part of content". personally, i find it really weird and off putting. i have left many streams bc the chat teasing vibes just make me anxious, as a veiwer. The only exception that i've seen is BasilWoof, because he is ACTIVELY participating in the teasing of himself & chat. that being said, i probably wont chat or become a part of his community, because i just do not find it personally appealing to participate in that. If i'm teased while on stream, i genuinely take what's being said to heart even if it's "obviously" a joke. the fact that it's so common, especially in the vtuber community, is definitely part of the reason i don't currently stream. (i've streamed off and on for years, but had to stop because the anxiety of going live and being on for hours at a time was making me physically ill) I felt compelled to give my side, because i didn't see much of my perspective in the comments, mostly just "teasing is fine, but BULLYING is bad". And while i agree that bullying is for sure bad, i don't really think teasing is cool either & i definitely don't think it should be the default. streamers that are okay with it make it very obvious by actively participating in it, and nobody should assume everyone is fine being teased. -- & as always, i loved the video, Kozii! thank you so much for opening up all of these topics for discussion!
Ok... third time’s the charm. I swear i’ll get it right this time around! I’m of the mind to treating others the way i would like to be treated. This is especially true with strangers or people i’m barely acquainted with cause who the heck knows how they’ll take crude jokes. When it comes to friends, i have made some that could be considered insulting, but either it is an inside joke or i am told directly that it wasn’t funny and i apologize for that cause that wasn’t the idea. Suppose there boundary that is the screen, internet and text have a lot to do with it as one feels... i guess comfortable be the word to type what you want without really considering how the streamer will take it I personally try to not go overboard and try to respect the rules placed to interact with a streamer be it a vtuber or not, but suppose one can also like... following the flow of what is happening in the chat. Moreso when it’s big streamers and everyone is typing the same thing Maybe it’s a thing that has to be both ways. The streamer and their mods set the rules and enforce them while those watching have to read and follow the rules best they can. Pretty sure this relates to your parasocial video in some way or form for sure. Just don’y currently have the brains to say how I’m pretty sure there’s a lot i missed when i wrote this the first time, but guess the tldr of this be: don’t be a d**k and try to think if what you type, you would like to be told to yourself by others. Or... laugh with the streamer, don’t laugh at the streamer be a better way to put it
I'm offended that Evan doesn't always eat Mac with the Cheese but in regards to the topic at hand, I try my best to be a positive beacon in a chat that tends to tease the streamer. I sometimes tease streamers as well but generally only if I myself would be comfortable with them teasing me back. If I feel like I went too far I'll just apologize, but luckily I don't tend to overstay my welcome. A close friend of mine who is a streamer gets teased quite often and sometimes bullied but he's such a good sport about it and that small community is very loving in the end. That group reminds me what a healthy balance is supposed to look like, and if I feel like they're teasing him too much, I try to remain honest and positive so that guy always has at least 1 person to confide in. It's tragic to see a community that doesn't have that kind of balance, I've seen it a few times even in communities I'm most active in.
I have seen many chats go over the line a few times Ive seen a small group of chat trying to pressure a Vtuber into doing lewd stuff saying things like " Your career will go no where if you do not play it up" , "Your Vtuber, you signed up for this" Also was not some random people who just stumbled upon the stream it was a few regulars at it was over 3-4 streams also they were frequent donors , felt like they got comfortable with the streamer and then felt entitled to more I remember early on in Rin Penroses streams some people tried the same thing and even after she came out as Ace it continued for a bit (Luckily fizzled out quickly) Seen a streamer who was ok with a bit of teasing who's chat took it WAY to far My advice , For streamers , If its going to far, say something, Sometimes your chat might not know they are going to far, and its best to nip it in the bud early on To audiences, Listen to the streamer and if think before you say something you might think is going to far.
Yep, agreed, you've gotta stand up for yourself when possible. But, not every vtuber can easily- like I mentioned, agency vtubers really are trying to cultivate an idol like environment, and standing up for yourself is, unfortunately, kind of an anti thesis because it's taking a hard stance in one direction when you're supposed to love and care for everyone and everything. That's why I make this video now- for friends of mine that can't stand up for themselves directly, I can at least do it for them. 🙏
Seen the Kronii example already mentioned here, but Nerissa recently dealt with a much more personal “joke” of chat saying her other family members were better streamers than she is. She eventually pushed back, and some of the idol fans didn’t like that. Think she’s been purposely not having her family join her streams for a while to curb it all…
I think the only this that is fine is all the pettan/flat jokes. But yes moderation is key. Though i don't do that myself. I'm not confident enough to even post in chat normally 99% of the time 😵💫
See, but even then, it is commenting on a woman's body. If they are flatter irl, it can be a slice at their self confidence if they have body image issues. A lot of women are taught that certain things are better, including a shapely chest, so you've gotta 100% know that they are not only okay with it but proud of their body to confidently make that joke without knowing if it affects them.
I don't necessarily think teasing skills is always bad, but I think there's a general rule of thumb most people never stop to consider. Are they laughing along? No? Then maybe don't. Getting a reaction out of the streamer can be fun, but how many times? If I'm being teased by something that makes me give a big negative reaction, the first time I'll consider it good content. The second maybe an inside joke. But then if it happens a third, fourth, 10th, 20th time... at that point, you KNOW that it's affecting them negatively, and it's not even good content because they are just reacting the same way they've reacted before or have toned down the reaction on purpose. So what are you still doing it for??
This is why I just watch clips lol We can't be friends because you don't know anything about me, and every streamer is portraying at least some amount of a persona and hiding their true selves from the audience so I don't know you, and I'd bet like 99.999999999% of all streamers wouldn't even WANT to be friends with me even if they did know me lol And if we're not friends why do I want to talk to you? What the hell would I even say? How many messages of encouragement does one person need? lol and also I feel like it's more meaningful and impactful when you show encouragement and care to actual friends instead of someone that doesn't know you or like you or care about you lol In this instance we're discussing ideas and sharing thoughts, but this isn't a stream and I'm not in chat, we can actually do that here unlike in a stream chat. You get more than maybe 10 people in a stream chat and it gets way too overwhelming way too fast to have any kind of an actual conversation. And also with youtube comments I'm not just talking to the person that made the video, I'm also inviting anyone else looking at the comments to respond. In fact I kind of assume only other random commenters will ever respond to me usually lol Anyway I wish everyone has a good day
So truuuee!! Comments and streams are such different environments, comments are a much better way to get across points in a more detailed breakdown, there's no real character limit to worry about, they're still kind of a public forum so they're open to the entire community, etc. They're still public, so you're still unlikely to get the really deep lore about somebody, maybe at most a story or two that relate to their life, but- they're still a lot more of a human connection than visiting a stream chat can be. Also hope you have a good day!! 🙌
It really depends, a lot of the stuff that gets really annoying overall isn't overtly harassment. It's subtle things, little jabs that build up over time. Sometimes people end up just kinda waiting and watching for the actual rule break to make it easier to ban. I just ban immediately if I decide I can't deal with somebody meanwhile lmao, but when in another streamer's chat, it's harder to pull the trigger for them.
It’s one of those things where, people needs to learn how to read the room. Like the way you would talk to someone like Kronii, you wouldn’t say the same things with Ina. Stuff like, “you’re so full of yourself.” This phrase will hit different between the 2. Kronii would play into it, Ina is just entirely different vibe. Sometimes, the streamer does aggravate the audience, for example, if you watch destiny vods/streams, he absolutely created his own toxicity. Everyone will take what you say, very differently. And really, I don’t think it was as it is now, and wouldn’t be as bad, if Covid didn’t hit. We went from social creatures, to forced parasocial. We have regressed ourselves to being cooped in our comfort zone, instead of branching out and doing stuff that isn’t ordinarily you. Hololive for example. There are fans that just watch hololive and consume their content strictly. They are a good company from everything I hear, and the chemistry of the vtubers are on point. But, they are a corporation. Huge, they can survive without having our undivided attention. There are plenty of indie Vtubers, like Kozii!, that are in this same space. Vtubers of all kinds of variety. Nekozawa I go for some good ol newsy news, Savii and Kozii! for a good conversation, Lime for some good gamer vibes, several other independent vtubers (there’s a lot), and half of vshojo. Actually, that’s a great example, Vshojo conversations do not fit with hololive vibes (minus a couple of members(I.E. Nerrissa and Ollie)). Just gotta read the room. Learn the vibes, how the person your interested in, talks, what games they play, what difficulty they consistently set in, subject discussions, ect. It’s the old saying, the streamer matches the audience. At least it should anyway. A good example of streamer not matching the audience, is the whole situation with pikamee and that whole bs situation. We live on the internet, and as long as we stay on the internet, we should treat the people we talk to as if they were face to face.
Yes! Though I'll also say that even when people read the room, sometimes it can go too far just because of the sheer amount of the same joke, or because the streamer is also having a bad day and trying to hide it and just show people a good time. No matter what, even if you indulge in some teasing, it's good to counter balance it with some good ol praise/complements/just saying you're having a good time.
TL:DR I think the streamer needs to set up boundaries, and the viewers need to read the room and be careful of the hive mind effect. Very interesting subject, which is one of my wonders on streamers. Where is the limit? Where is the fine line between teasing and bullying? There is some streamer that I cannot watch because their chat being over the top all the time makes me feel bad. But if the streamer is ok with that kind of banter, who am I to say it's wrong? Every streamer has a different view on it; some would be ok with constant teasing, while others would be overwhelmed by it. I think it's up to the streamer to set the boundaries, as difficult as it is. Some viewers are socially awkward and do not know how to behave or read a room; they do not have ill will but can make the streamer uncomfortable. I don't know if I'm allowed to say another Vtuber's name in the comments, so feel free to erase my comment if necessary. We have, for example, Kronii's experience with the "subway" joke that ran over a year; she didn't say anything in hope it would stop, but she had to address it at one point because it was annoying. Or another example would be Nerrissa, where people constantly bring up her sister, up to the point of making her self-conscious. She did have to address it as well in order to stop the majority of people. I'm sure trolls will bring it up, but moderators will bring them down, at least I hope. Even outside of the Vtuber community and around a decade ago, I remember a video with Markiplier, Wade, and Bob. Wade was often the subject of jokes for Bob and Markiplier, but the issue is the public was doing it as well. Wade addresses it by saying Mark and Bob are friends and joke together, but when you receive mean comments or even mean comments IRL in convention, it's not the same because they're not friends with the viewers. That the parasocial relationship we get from constantly interracting with streamers that give us the feeling of being close to them, while we're just a stranger IRL, maybe a username that they see often in the chat, but that it. As I said, I think the streamer needs to set up boundaries at one point. Not addressing it would only result in having it happen again and again or even evolve into something worse. Viewers too have to read the room, but that more difficult has the "hive mind" effect to take action and make people stop thinking and go with the flow. The majority of people don't want to hurt their favorite streamer, but by going with the flow, they end up doing it. I think it might happen more to Vtuber because they're hidden behind an avatar, so for some young viewers it's easier to not see the human behind the character. All in all, great subject, good explanation, and hopefully it will make people think twice before teasing a streamer, just to make sure it's not too much. As I say, there is a fine line between teasing and bullying; be sure not to cross it! 😁
Yes! Vtubers are real people behind their model! They put in hard effort and time to entertain and build a good community. Be kind, uplifting, and encouraging. I believe a rude comment, regardless if it's meant as a joke, it hurts.
![Gucci Mane & Sexyy Red - You Don't Love Me [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/j7IBqyFKT4c/mqdefault.jpg)
be nice to the people you genuinely enjoy. it's ok to tease them sometimes, but just remember that if you ONLY tease them, they might stop believing that you actually care, too.
timestamps ⬇
00:00 - Intro
00:58 - Why do people bully
01:36 - Going too far
02:32 - Streamers don't know you.
04:30 - "Jokes" fall flat.
05:23 - Streamers can't react
06:22 - Agency VTubers + bullying
07:23 - TECHNICALLY nothing is wrong
08:09 - It's not funny
09:21 - Constant bullying affects people
10:42 - Streamers act dumb for entertainment
11:15 - If you care about a streamer, stop.
12:26 - It builds up
13:40 - If you care, be careful
14:06 - Check in on your friends
14:29 - End
I do enjoy teasing the streamer :3
For REAL. If your messages are ONLY teasing/bullying, nothing uplifting, not even a thank you at the end, that's a huge problem.
I'm very against bullying a streamer. Teasing them sometimes, yes, but a lot of dudes take it too far too often. It's not fun or cute or silly, it's a self-report. I'll generally mock the NPCs for being dumb, but rarely ever say mean things to the streamer unless it's going to make them laugh and always in context to what they're doing.
mild teasing is funny, and i enjoy it tbh! especially if it IS in context, cus then it stays nice and fresh.
It requires being a 3x a week kind of viewer not a clip watcher which is what causes certain problems
I don't have enough social intellect to distinguish teasing and bulling.
I think there's a good baseline idea for how to figure it out! Pretty much: 'Does this insult the person that I'm talking to directly as a person, or does it insult something that I know they love directly?' If the answer is yes, it's probably better to just not say it. If the answer is either no or iffy (insulting their outfit in a game or something), you're probably gonna be fine. That's my metric anyways.
And the people that are "teasing" you probably don't have the social intellect to process the fact that you are not friends with them, so I'd venture to say it's not a one-sided issue.
Probably the weirdest one i dealt with was one person kept trying to bully me into doing lewd ASMR when I had no interest in it.(This happening multiple times over several months) It got to the point I had talked to them in private they told me quite being stuck up or snob. Then used the excuse well i talk to my family this way but I'm not your family. the biggest thing is if you keep bullying someone don't be all upset if they suddenly block you because you got sick of them.
Worse part is those same people then tell me really nice things, so then the rest of the chat gets mad at me for going against a "nice" person.
TRUUE cus they don't personally register all the bad, since it's not directed at them, so they only remember the really nice things 😭
There is such a fine line between teasing and bullying that I don't even try to tease someone who doesn't know me personally. It's even harder online since text sometimes fails to convey the speaker's tone, causing messages to come off meaner than intended. I don't want to be seen as a bully, even accidentally.
I do wonder if some vtubers who lean into being "bullied" by chat for content are actually not as unaffected as they appear. Like, I wonder if Gura from Hololive is actually okay with being "bullied" by chat for being "bad" at math. She sometimes leans into that aspect of her persona, even making references to being bad at math too, so it appears that she's unaffected by those teasing remarks. But, I wonder if that's the case off stream. It's hard to tell sometimes since constantly being teased about something can get under the thickest skin after a long enough time.
Teasing and bullying to me are different, but I guess that's literally the point of this video.
Personally, I try to be quiet, overall. But occasionally I chime in with a joke or two. But never beyond that. Really the thing is, just don't run stuff into the ground
YEH exaaactly, never do it so much that it gets old. There's that old rule of threes, where after the third time something gets boring, i think that probably applies to teasing jokes too tbh
It reminds me of the kronii subway sandwich stream where she put them in a blender and for a week it was fine but it went past a year and it kept going to a point where she was just over it because it was a year ago and stopped eating subway and getting "reminders" was more exhausting hearing it everyday than telling people to please stop it
EXACTLY, YES, I see people take teasing jokes WAY too far to the point where they are just nooott any fun anymore. Which sucks, cus yeah, they are fun at first! It's kind of just a matter of regulation, gotta keep in mind just how much something is being said along with if it's hurtful to begin with.
So many good points in this video:
- I find myself skipping over messages that I find rude or on the verge of rude constantly for the exact reason you said. To not encourage it.
- Friendly banter! Exactly! What friends say to each other and is acceptable will not be the same from streamer to chatter. This doesn't get discussed enough.
- Jokes are constantly beat to death. My jump king streams were ruthless. I tried so much to play along with the 'try going up' 'is this a fall guys stream' etc. jokes and even to this day when I tell my chat I'm not playing the dlc they still are bringing it up after I've said no. No means no!
- Internalization. Yes. If people constantly tell you something, whether true or not, it has the potential to be a self fulfilling prophecy. Whether true or not, you'll internalize it and begin to question: Am I really stupid? Am I really not good enough?
- "Technically not against the rules." This is a hard one because you're right, it builds up. When is enough, enough? There has to be a point where the chatter gets timed out, but then again it's so much easier said then done.
Very glad you made this video. Teasing can be a slippery slope into bullying.
I remember a situation I was in a while back for a streamer I'd just started following. She showed some embarassment at one of those heart locket gifs having been made for her, so the community spammed it and lovebombed her. I joined in because it was fun and goofy. And when she responded with further embarassment I almost said "Yeah, get loved and affectioned, idiot." But I stopped before hitting enter. I had only been in there for two days. I'm not sure how that message would have been recieved. Would she have correctly interpreted it as me being a smartass, or would the "idiot" override everything else? And this video co firms to me I made the right decision just... deleting the message before sending it.
Also, to your point about girls pretending to be dumb, I love how quickly "girlfailure" went from a (sometimes mocking) counter of "girlboss" to being embraced by some female content creators as a sign of "I am bad at game, please laugh with/at me."
People should only be teasing the steamer IF there alright with it because it’s not good for the streamer if they have to always go through it because it could start to get to them
Another thing is back seating without the streamers imput everyone wants to have the streamer have a good experience the problem you have is the people wanting to force the streamer to having the "Perfect" experience like when Undertale was hype view viewers would threaten to destroy channels if they didn't play pacifist runs so the streamer would have the "best" experience because they wanted to experience the "reaction of the streamer" seeing everything alot of streamers lost their channels by either stopping the game and ignoring requests or trying to play the game with forced reactions instead of them just letting them play the game
This is something I see a lot when streamers play video games, especially if they do not play a lot of games. I honestly think it's far more entertaining when the streamer is not good at the game, and I mean that in the best way possible. It puts me on the edge of my seat, it's interesting to see how they come up with ways to complete a task in a way I wouldn't have done it. Why would anyone want to bully that? That's peak entertainment, and they should be encouraged. Not back-seated, not made fun of, but _encouraged._
What's worse about the backseaters is that a fair amount of them probably genuinely want to help you optimise your character or help you get from A to B as quickly as possible first time but they don't seem to get that the fun comes from the fact that the streamer is "bad at the game" in the first place. They don't seem to get that most of the enjoyment comes from watching the streamer try, fail and blunder their way to the top.
If the streamer is going to optimise their character build, if the streamer is going to get things right first time every time, if the streamer knows how to tweak the game to abuse the character's AI ect. The game and the stream loses its magic and thus becomes more boring than had the streamer legitimately struggled through their lack of knowledge and trialled and errored their way to victory. The celebrations mean more when you finally beat the boss after the fifteenth try, not when you've optimised your account and breezed through the boss with ease thanks to the worldly knowledge of th chat who played it to death from release onwards.
I agree. I also think... Acting overly familiar with people online, vs not acting familiar... are equally as destructive... The pressure to act overly-familiar, yet not too familiar, is nuts on social media... so I often avoid it, but when I do do it... I screw up and overshare in a manner that implies I've got the foot half out the door whilst doing it.
P.S. I am guilty as charged. And my god, do I hate and wish I could stop existing occassionally for it, cause its just so out of character for me... I'm not even like... Wanting the attention per say, its just that... I need attention and mistakenly decided that the internet is where I'm gonna get it. And no shocker Kozii hasn't read/interacted with my comments, cause she'd probably be reinforcing this toxic behaviour of mine where I try to share overly personal stuff & receive validation for my overly personal emotions about overly touchy/semi-touchy subjects which she would hypothetically, if she bothered to, have to go out of her way to respond to in a way that would be satisfying enough for me to finally chill and stop typing like this in the comment section of these videos... Yet uhh... I think some of my oversharing is justifiable, given that this topic is something that relates heavily with social interactions like the ones I have and type like this one herein & whether or not this in of itself, is invasive just like how bullying a streamer(or unintentionally bullying with the intent to just joke and have fun teasing) is invasive.
P.S. and I got into massive trouble(on a discord server called Rifuu's sheep cafe, people there didn't share or understand my humour, probs also cause it's, as you said, the kind of humour that friends share between themselves... I didn't know it at the time and just thought I could go wild with it and get instant feedback - with my cognitive biases filtering out the exceptions cause "those people arent true people, they're just normies and NPC's", or so I thought back then and still occasionally slip back to thinking) when I made a joke repeatedly, trying to get arise out of people cause of how clever I knew I was, I just was being ignored & thought I was being ignored, despite the real kicker being that people were hearing it, getting grossed out, and reporting me for it. The joke was literally, more of a catch phrase than anything else, that I admittedly felt massively betrayed by people, namely, online people, purposely targeting me when I did things, meanwhile others did things and got off Scott free it felt like... I guess I just do things with a level of intensity and a level of desperation, that people don't like? I dunno. One joke was "I thlam your Ponis in the car door" cause, get it, Rifuushi has a ponytail... and the main one, well... it begins with a word that rhymes with nape plus dy, and ends with napedy... and is in actuality, said with the words flipped too, depending whichever order you want to say'em in.
The most awkward thing is that we're kinda given false hope by those massive videos with those big jokes that challenge the boundaries of humour... And we try and succeed in the same quality of humour, yet are dissapointed to find that other people online, don't find it funny... "Fucking normies, REEEE", one might say... and they might not necessarily be wrong, but it is an oversimplification of the human psyche, because jokes require a level of trust in order to be funny in the first place... and when people don't possess that trust, that sense of being in the joke, and knowing that it's a joke... well... THEN you get normies... problem is, you also get outcasts... and man, it is very disappointing and crushing! Yet you have no idea why... cause you're in denial that people find your jokes terrible, as there's a massive audience out there online who's clearly enjoying that style of humour in the present and right now. So you keep pushing harder and harder and harder... until you hit a nerve with someone and everything's crashing and burning because you had the ego, the audacity, to keep pushing your jokes in the WRONG way... even though, for all you know, you were just in the wrong crowd where all the normies are, so "all their opinions" can be dismissed...
😊Love this. I have "bullied" with channel points, but I want to make sure I'm as supportive as I can be.
No cheese on the Mac? Evan is uninvited to the cookout.
EXACTLY!!
I remember me and chat bullying our Oshi with a cascade of superchats. She has a cute animation for it and likes to voice act on top of it. She’s a tough girl, handles criticism and awful comments from aholes better than most but those happen rarely, for the most part we try to be supportive and balance the teasing. You made a great point tho, newcomers seeing our more friendly way of teasing might not necessarily know how to take it, what it really means and (some) find it off putting or (others) think it’s ok to just be outright disrespectful (not knowing the inside jokes and all).
Thank you for your honest opinions about this topic it is appreciated!! This reminded me it is ok to be positive or supportive as long as long im not overdoing it. Ive been watching someone regularly lately im nothing but respectful however i think i try too hard so if it means anything someone took your advice in hopes of being a better person in this large community of viewers & entertainers alike!!!
I've had this happen where certain people don't bully me per say but there are like some that give me random criticism about how I should be like another streamer. Another person gives me art critique that just comes off as them wanting to make me feel like my art is crap (I made my own model and they always have something to say about it) I just ignore these people now
It is pretty wild how some chatters can be nonchalantly sexist and it's "okay" under the guise of "teasing/bullying"
Pretty sure that type of viewer latches onto these women because they usually don't have to face any repercussion for that 😒 i think if the streamer cant nip it in the bud their community has to come together to do it if they also arent feeling those comments
Personally only tease my close friends. I fall into the crowd of people who get uncomfortable when I see/hear the teasing get what I perceive as too harsh since I'm kinda worried about the target getting upset and blowing up or just them just feeling like shit. I typically just lurk in chats unless the topic gets onto something I'm really into then I tend to yap(positive).
8:38 Ah, so war crimes! Haven't finished the video yet but looks like another banger. I never thought about it before since the clips I see have the streamer bounce off chat pretty seamlessly, seems like it's more complicated than that sometimes
i think what you've described is called "conditioning" or something similar.
Hmmm, I don't think so, but it's a similar idea. I think it differs because it's a live environment, and because a lot of the time the teasing that grates on a streamer is because of the sheer number of people that do it even with harmless intent. Say a hundred people visit a stream for the day, but 5 of them make the same joke about how bad a streamer was at a game the day before, or something like that- The first one may not really hurt that much, and it's just a simple thing. But after the 5th, the 10th, the 50th time... you start believing it, or it starts to hurt.
I think that teasing or "boolie" can be fun for all involved. I think it's when it goes too far (which is subjective) it can be hurtful and wrong.
i understand that for some people, teasing a streamer can be funny, or as you said "can be the best part of content". personally, i find it really weird and off putting. i have left many streams bc the chat teasing vibes just make me anxious, as a veiwer. The only exception that i've seen is BasilWoof, because he is ACTIVELY participating in the teasing of himself & chat. that being said, i probably wont chat or become a part of his community, because i just do not find it personally appealing to participate in that. If i'm teased while on stream, i genuinely take what's being said to heart even if it's "obviously" a joke. the fact that it's so common, especially in the vtuber community, is definitely part of the reason i don't currently stream. (i've streamed off and on for years, but had to stop because the anxiety of going live and being on for hours at a time was making me physically ill) I felt compelled to give my side, because i didn't see much of my perspective in the comments, mostly just "teasing is fine, but BULLYING is bad". And while i agree that bullying is for sure bad, i don't really think teasing is cool either & i definitely don't think it should be the default. streamers that are okay with it make it very obvious by actively participating in it, and nobody should assume everyone is fine being teased. -- & as always, i loved the video, Kozii! thank you so much for opening up all of these topics for discussion!
First! Unexpected! Now with that out of the way, i’m going to put another message to give my thoughts!
Nevermind being first... and i lost the textwall i just wrote! Lemme try again’
Ok... third time’s the charm. I swear i’ll get it right this time around!
I’m of the mind to treating others the way i would like to be treated. This is especially true with strangers or people i’m barely acquainted with cause who the heck knows how they’ll take crude jokes. When it comes to friends, i have made some that could be considered insulting, but either it is an inside joke or i am told directly that it wasn’t funny and i apologize for that cause that wasn’t the idea. Suppose there boundary that is the screen, internet and text have a lot to do with it as one feels... i guess comfortable be the word to type what you want without really considering how the streamer will take it
I personally try to not go overboard and try to respect the rules placed to interact with a streamer be it a vtuber or not, but suppose one can also like... following the flow of what is happening in the chat. Moreso when it’s big streamers and everyone is typing the same thing
Maybe it’s a thing that has to be both ways. The streamer and their mods set the rules and enforce them while those watching have to read and follow the rules best they can.
Pretty sure this relates to your parasocial video in some way or form for sure. Just don’y currently have the brains to say how
I’m pretty sure there’s a lot i missed when i wrote this the first time, but guess the tldr of this be: don’t be a d**k and try to think if what you type, you would like to be told to yourself by others. Or... laugh with the streamer, don’t laugh at the streamer be a better way to put it
Absolute facts
* bullies you * 😈😈
NOOOO 😭
Love your content.
Aaa thank you so much! 🙏
I'm offended that Evan doesn't always eat Mac with the Cheese but in regards to the topic at hand, I try my best to be a positive beacon in a chat that tends to tease the streamer. I sometimes tease streamers as well but generally only if I myself would be comfortable with them teasing me back. If I feel like I went too far I'll just apologize, but luckily I don't tend to overstay my welcome.
A close friend of mine who is a streamer gets teased quite often and sometimes bullied but he's such a good sport about it and that small community is very loving in the end. That group reminds me what a healthy balance is supposed to look like, and if I feel like they're teasing him too much, I try to remain honest and positive so that guy always has at least 1 person to confide in. It's tragic to see a community that doesn't have that kind of balance, I've seen it a few times even in communities I'm most active in.
Evan deserved to be called out let's be honest, how dare he
@@koziitwo Definitely something off with that fella...
I have seen many chats go over the line a few times
Ive seen a small group of chat trying to pressure a Vtuber into doing lewd stuff saying things like " Your career will go no where if you do not play it up" , "Your Vtuber, you signed up for this"
Also was not some random people who just stumbled upon the stream it was a few regulars at it was over 3-4 streams also they were frequent donors , felt like they got comfortable with the streamer and then felt entitled to more
I remember early on in Rin Penroses streams some people tried the same thing and even after she came out as Ace it continued for a bit (Luckily fizzled out quickly)
Seen a streamer who was ok with a bit of teasing who's chat took it WAY to far
My advice , For streamers , If its going to far, say something, Sometimes your chat might not know they are going to far, and its best to nip it in the bud early on
To audiences, Listen to the streamer and if think before you say something you might think is going to far.
Yep, agreed, you've gotta stand up for yourself when possible. But, not every vtuber can easily- like I mentioned, agency vtubers really are trying to cultivate an idol like environment, and standing up for yourself is, unfortunately, kind of an anti thesis because it's taking a hard stance in one direction when you're supposed to love and care for everyone and everything. That's why I make this video now- for friends of mine that can't stand up for themselves directly, I can at least do it for them. 🙏
Seen the Kronii example already mentioned here, but Nerissa recently dealt with a much more personal “joke” of chat saying her other family members were better streamers than she is. She eventually pushed back, and some of the idol fans didn’t like that. Think she’s been purposely not having her family join her streams for a while to curb it all…
I think the only this that is fine is all the pettan/flat jokes. But yes moderation is key. Though i don't do that myself. I'm not confident enough to even post in chat normally 99% of the time 😵💫
See, but even then, it is commenting on a woman's body. If they are flatter irl, it can be a slice at their self confidence if they have body image issues. A lot of women are taught that certain things are better, including a shapely chest, so you've gotta 100% know that they are not only okay with it but proud of their body to confidently make that joke without knowing if it affects them.
I don't necessarily think teasing skills is always bad, but I think there's a general rule of thumb most people never stop to consider. Are they laughing along? No?
Then maybe don't.
Getting a reaction out of the streamer can be fun, but how many times? If I'm being teased by something that makes me give a big negative reaction, the first time I'll consider it good content. The second maybe an inside joke. But then if it happens a third, fourth, 10th, 20th time... at that point, you KNOW that it's affecting them negatively, and it's not even good content because they are just reacting the same way they've reacted before or have toned down the reaction on purpose. So what are you still doing it for??
This is why I just watch clips lol
We can't be friends because you don't know anything about me, and every streamer is portraying at least some amount of a persona and hiding their true selves from the audience so I don't know you, and I'd bet like 99.999999999% of all streamers wouldn't even WANT to be friends with me even if they did know me lol
And if we're not friends why do I want to talk to you? What the hell would I even say? How many messages of encouragement does one person need? lol and also I feel like it's more meaningful and impactful when you show encouragement and care to actual friends instead of someone that doesn't know you or like you or care about you lol
In this instance we're discussing ideas and sharing thoughts, but this isn't a stream and I'm not in chat, we can actually do that here unlike in a stream chat. You get more than maybe 10 people in a stream chat and it gets way too overwhelming way too fast to have any kind of an actual conversation. And also with youtube comments I'm not just talking to the person that made the video, I'm also inviting anyone else looking at the comments to respond. In fact I kind of assume only other random commenters will ever respond to me usually lol
Anyway I wish everyone has a good day
So truuuee!!
Comments and streams are such different environments, comments are a much better way to get across points in a more detailed breakdown, there's no real character limit to worry about, they're still kind of a public forum so they're open to the entire community, etc. They're still public, so you're still unlikely to get the really deep lore about somebody, maybe at most a story or two that relate to their life, but- they're still a lot more of a human connection than visiting a stream chat can be.
Also hope you have a good day!! 🙌
I wouldn't say harassment isn't against the rules, tbh
It really depends, a lot of the stuff that gets really annoying overall isn't overtly harassment. It's subtle things, little jabs that build up over time. Sometimes people end up just kinda waiting and watching for the actual rule break to make it easier to ban.
I just ban immediately if I decide I can't deal with somebody meanwhile lmao, but when in another streamer's chat, it's harder to pull the trigger for them.
I love U cozy!
Ur the Best!
It’s one of those things where, people needs to learn how to read the room. Like the way you would talk to someone like Kronii, you wouldn’t say the same things with Ina. Stuff like, “you’re so full of yourself.” This phrase will hit different between the 2. Kronii would play into it, Ina is just entirely different vibe.
Sometimes, the streamer does aggravate the audience, for example, if you watch destiny vods/streams, he absolutely created his own toxicity. Everyone will take what you say, very differently.
And really, I don’t think it was as it is now, and wouldn’t be as bad, if Covid didn’t hit. We went from social creatures, to forced parasocial. We have regressed ourselves to being cooped in our comfort zone, instead of branching out and doing stuff that isn’t ordinarily you.
Hololive for example. There are fans that just watch hololive and consume their content strictly. They are a good company from everything I hear, and the chemistry of the vtubers are on point. But, they are a corporation. Huge, they can survive without having our undivided attention. There are plenty of indie Vtubers, like Kozii!, that are in this same space. Vtubers of all kinds of variety.
Nekozawa I go for some good ol newsy news, Savii and Kozii! for a good conversation, Lime for some good gamer vibes, several other independent vtubers (there’s a lot), and half of vshojo. Actually, that’s a great example, Vshojo conversations do not fit with hololive vibes (minus a couple of members(I.E. Nerrissa and Ollie)).
Just gotta read the room. Learn the vibes, how the person your interested in, talks, what games they play, what difficulty they consistently set in, subject discussions, ect. It’s the old saying, the streamer matches the audience. At least it should anyway.
A good example of streamer not matching the audience, is the whole situation with pikamee and that whole bs situation. We live on the internet, and as long as we stay on the internet, we should treat the people we talk to as if they were face to face.
Yes! Though I'll also say that even when people read the room, sometimes it can go too far just because of the sheer amount of the same joke, or because the streamer is also having a bad day and trying to hide it and just show people a good time. No matter what, even if you indulge in some teasing, it's good to counter balance it with some good ol praise/complements/just saying you're having a good time.
TL:DR I think the streamer needs to set up boundaries, and the viewers need to read the room and be careful of the hive mind effect.
Very interesting subject, which is one of my wonders on streamers. Where is the limit? Where is the fine line between teasing and bullying? There is some streamer that I cannot watch because their chat being over the top all the time makes me feel bad. But if the streamer is ok with that kind of banter, who am I to say it's wrong? Every streamer has a different view on it; some would be ok with constant teasing, while others would be overwhelmed by it. I think it's up to the streamer to set the boundaries, as difficult as it is.
Some viewers are socially awkward and do not know how to behave or read a room; they do not have ill will but can make the streamer uncomfortable. I don't know if I'm allowed to say another Vtuber's name in the comments, so feel free to erase my comment if necessary. We have, for example, Kronii's experience with the "subway" joke that ran over a year; she didn't say anything in hope it would stop, but she had to address it at one point because it was annoying. Or another example would be Nerrissa, where people constantly bring up her sister, up to the point of making her self-conscious. She did have to address it as well in order to stop the majority of people. I'm sure trolls will bring it up, but moderators will bring them down, at least I hope.
Even outside of the Vtuber community and around a decade ago, I remember a video with Markiplier, Wade, and Bob. Wade was often the subject of jokes for Bob and Markiplier, but the issue is the public was doing it as well. Wade addresses it by saying Mark and Bob are friends and joke together, but when you receive mean comments or even mean comments IRL in convention, it's not the same because they're not friends with the viewers. That the parasocial relationship we get from constantly interracting with streamers that give us the feeling of being close to them, while we're just a stranger IRL, maybe a username that they see often in the chat, but that it.
As I said, I think the streamer needs to set up boundaries at one point. Not addressing it would only result in having it happen again and again or even evolve into something worse. Viewers too have to read the room, but that more difficult has the "hive mind" effect to take action and make people stop thinking and go with the flow. The majority of people don't want to hurt their favorite streamer, but by going with the flow, they end up doing it. I think it might happen more to Vtuber because they're hidden behind an avatar, so for some young viewers it's easier to not see the human behind the character.
All in all, great subject, good explanation, and hopefully it will make people think twice before teasing a streamer, just to make sure it's not too much. As I say, there is a fine line between teasing and bullying; be sure not to cross it! 😁
Should i stop calling you "cwinge" ? 😢
ur RUINING my LIFE 😭😭😭
/s
@@koziitwo am i? 😢 it's always come from a place of love and respect
i'm joking i swear
you're fine you silly bean 🙏
@@koziitwoso I'm still allowed to call you cwinge? 😮
@@koziitwoi had to look up what /s meant, because I'm that much of a 33 y/o boomer.....
Yes! Vtubers are real people behind their model! They put in hard effort and time to entertain and build a good community. Be kind, uplifting, and encouraging. I believe a rude comment, regardless if it's meant as a joke, it hurts.
Just be nice its not tat hard to not be a jack🫏