I have even seen a Kettle plugged into a light socket with the old Bakelite plug dangling down onto a table with the kettle on the end, back in the 60s, and it worked, but the kettle was an old 1 KW type.
It was only a few decades ago that we were on the opposite end of the cycle, the apartment I lived in back then had only 1 overhead light right at the entrance door, the rest were all "supply your own lamp" switched outlets randomly scattered around the walls of every single room. Of course that could've also just been because my landlord was too cheap for light fixtures.
Interesting device. Nice that it uses short on/off mains cycle to change operating mode rather then having to set up a account in the cloud to control it.
Solutions like these can be finicky, and having a separate remote for each device just sucks. There ARE decent home automation solutions that don't involve any cloud crap
The chip was primarily used in multi-colour lights. The output is connected to a white LED and a yellow-ish LED. Then you can adjust the colour temperature.
Manufacture of first consumer grade 5% resistors was delayed by decades because they had to wait until gold color paint came along. No, seriously before color rings they were all brown paint dipped & a color dot to indicate the resistance. 1K red dot, 100 K yellow dot etc... A radio from that era wouldn't work any better with accurate resistors, still pick up stations fine with +100% / -50% off nominal value When "E6" invented they had to dip one end in a different color for the extra digit yellow body violet tip & orange spot = 47K
Thanks for always taking the time to reverse engineer and explain these consumer electronics. I love it when you find new, ingenious circuitry or chips, and I know I'm not alone when I say that I've learned a lot from your videos over the years.
Glad that fixing the broken track didn't make it go kaboom. I once fixed a broken track on a walkm... portable cassete player/recorder and radio (wasn't Sony) and the thing didn't work. I had also repaired several other tracks due to battery corrosion, but this one was away from the damaged zone and appeared to have been cut with something sharp. Sure enough, everything worked flawlessly after I disconnected it.
That chip would equally have a nice application in larger ceiling fans with lighting. Normally two wall toggle switches are used to control each function, but in a household room with only one wall switch (2 conductor wire with ground), it could make the operation more practical instead of needing a remote control or reaching for the string light/fan switch. In such a mains to mains connection with a few relays could retrofit existing installations.
There's a million dollar idea. I can hear the infomercial now. (black and white video of frustrated person shaking their head) "How many times has this happened to you? You want the fan and you can't find the remote!" (color video with happy family blown by fan) "You need the Clive-O-Matic!"
Definitely interesting. I've seen lamp fixtures with fans, but never lamps themselves. So technically, it'd make the device "The Fannylighter" (or "The Fannyluminator") :)
Thank you for the ages that video took you, most impairment. Informative. Crazy that the control track was broken. No resulting explosions or fire when you fixed it, but then you can't have everything. 🙂
Very neat fan-light! Thanks for taking the time to figure it out, and fix it. The Bright Power chip is neat because it emulates a traditional three-way lamp control. Could see some applications for that myself!
I always thought that, when people complain about the heat inefficiency of lights- if you live somewhere that needs heating, you are actually using 100% of the energy (and thought that adding a fan could help circulate the heat). Didn't know they were actually a thing, even if that's not the intention.
Winters do feel colder with LED lighting. On the bright side, inductive loads such as light bulbs are a more expensive option of heating for most people anyway.
@@Mrvideosandgames I never understood why power factor correction isn't regulated by law. For small devices, the impact might be small, but that also means the cap is really cheap to correct it. And if it was required it would all add up. Or did I misunderstand and you were talking about alternatives like nat gas or heat pumps? Cuz if you are talking about heat pumps especially, it would be amazing if we just pumped heat where it was needed around a house to make every other heat pump (or sink) more efficient- my dream home would be one where that was the case.
@@sophiophile Yeah, I just mean LEDs produce less heat than older types of bulbs, but on the flip side light bulbs aren't a great way to heat your home to begin with when electricity is triple the cost of gas (in the UK) and resistive (sorry, not inductive) heaters use about double the electricity of heat pumps.
Also electronics, including LEDs, hate heat cycles as it causes tiny fractures that will break the device way before it’s intended lifespan. Cheap LED Bulbs are often overrunning the LED chips with more amps than they need, increasing the light output but decreasing lifespan and energy efficiency. And the producer needs less LEDs for the same amount of light, making the product cheaper. Check Clive‘s Video on the Dubai Lamps, LEDs at twice the efficiency as common LEDs A good Lamp runs LEDs at 0.5-1.0W each
I liked it so much ,I bought one! Slightly different pcb layout and different LED control chip DP9503AB but still has parallel resistors between CS and Grd pins but both SMD and both 1R80. Removed one, now 12W light with fan. Thanks Clive
@@AndreasA.S.That schematic as shown with the NC on the mystery trace was not exactly the same chip number. Big C mentioned he had a difficult time finding many of the datasheets. The drawing shown may be a cheaper version without additional functionality of the control pin as the actual chip number ends with a ‘F’.
That was an interesting little evaluation and repair video, Clive. Cheers. You're right about the BLDC fans, they are cheap to make, lightweight for all sorts of applications and don't use much power.
Connecting wires inside the ceiling is traditional in my country and others, often upgraded to a dedicated connection outlet . But mounting a lamp specific bracket (or entire lamp) is also common .
As soon as your uncovered the back side picture my eyes went straight to the error in the circuit...like a magnet or something :) This is a pretty neat little fan/light!
I wonder if that would make a decent ring light around a macro camera? Obviously a little removal of unneeded parts would be required, but if it is both even enough light distribution, and cheap enough, that might be a worthwhile thing to do.
Phillips has a series of "automatic" dimmer LED lamps. They have 3 light levels. Low, with warm color. Medium with warmer color and High with normal color. The level is changed by turning the lamp off/on. I guess that chip was designed for that kind of application.
12:10 Anyone else see it? Look at the pin numbering lol! "2-1-3-4" Don't think that is standard. When they made the datasheet, someone inadvertently swapped the pins in the diagram. Makes complete sense when you flip the two pins as then the ground is tied to the local star-point to provide a stable 0V reference, which is a really good idea since you don't want noise screwing with the feedback network. Edit: Not the only one to see it from other comments here, but it would make things confusing for sure.
Looks more like an odd engine firing order than something electronic.. Usual 4 pot is 1-3-4-2 but some are different and that's a viable option although it'd sound odd...
That’s some clever capability on what is ostensibly a rather mundane device. The way of switching between the light and fan is pretty ingenious and handy (avoids having to go to the device to make the selection). Nice work reverse engineering it as well.
I wonder if that powerful fan would make the fixture dangle around if it were mounted on one of the E27 dangling cords. Would be nice to provide airflow through the room!
@@kimchristensen2175Watching closely, one could see the fan spins right (seen from the front, obviously) so its torque is towards left, tending to loosen the bulb. Surely it has a low torque, but when vibrations add, that could slowly unscrew the fixture. Good spotting of a potential nuisance or even failure mode !
what a interesting light. ive started seeing stuff like this as of recently. even some just a fan that screws into a socket in some cases i see these being nice for really restrained places were even smallest ceiling fan wont fit though.
Back when things used to have a warranty and worth fixing, we would make tons of money in the shop by fixing manufacturing defects like that open track.
Looks like an interesting light, especially with the fan function as that would help with the current warm weather that you get in a typical UK summer! I'd personally tame the light down to 10W as shown in the video if using in a smaller room - if using in a larger room, or if a good amount of light was required, I'd use it full tilt at its 25W. After all, 25W on this will give way, way more light than a 25W tungsten lamp, a 28W halogen lamp, or even a 23W CFL.
Did you notice on the data sheet that the CS and GND pins have the numbers swapped on the package outline. The GND pin is numbered 1 but is in the 2 position. So maybe that is the cause of the confusing wiring and datasheet
I love the way you break things open and discover ways to make them work better or in this case - as designed. I have to wonder if the broken trace was intentional. I also wonder if the higher wattage used by the lights is meant to make them burn out faster.
When i was twelve, we had a bathroom light that was an enormous shaped bulb that had an heating element inside it. The idea was that it slightly heated the bathroom, whilst you were in the bath. But i was in the bath one day when it exploded. My (much to my embarrasment) big brother lifted me out of the bath, as every surface, as well as the soap, was covered in glass shards i had a narrow escape as i got hit on my left inner thigh, which burnt but didn't cut and missed anything important. They are no longer manufactured as far as i know. This was about 1966
Interesting chip but I noticed from the datasheet that the trigger voltage is about 170V peak (=120VAC) which makes me think it would be unreliable on US voltage. On the other hand that might be dependent on the voltage on the HV pin via a voltage divider. Although it doesn't say how much current it can sink, the data pins can handle up to 30V through a 500 ohm resistance which suggests 60mA so it should be possible to drive a relay directly. Now if only they were available...
Same logic as the multi-color temp LED systems - you turn the mains on and off (wall switch usually) and it steps through the modes. As long as you go back on before the time out, it will be in the next mode. most of those are cool - warm - combined as three steps, some have a half power mode as well.
Makes you wonder if these are tested after assembly. I’m sure they save money by only testing a random sample - if any at all. I’m wondering if the missing track was a fault on only that board or maybe a whole batch?
I love 3 phase brushless motor fans. They tend to work a lot better, be more reliable, quieter, and project airflow a lot better. I am a big fan (pun very much intended). It is easier to have them on smaller fans, but i hope to see them more often. It is nice that it is a sensored motor too. people often prefer sensor-less ESCs, but i believe they can be a lot simpler with a simple hall effect sensor. so I tend to like sensored ESCs more, even if they have 2 or 3 hall sensors.
I have one of these but mine has a small remote control as well, with the remote you can change the light to cool white, natural, & warm white + also dim the light the remote also allows you to change the fan speed 3 settings & also a timer for the fan 1 2 or 4hrs, other than that it's basically the same as the one in the video.
I bought one of these light fans expecting the PCB to be the same but it's not quite, e.g. The transformer near the LED connector and the chip near the mains input have swapped places. LED driver is an SIC9536BD
Another great video Clive. These fan lights are very common in Philippines at the market to illuminate produce while keeping the flys away. Would the fan motor run in reverse if the black and red wires were swapped at the molex plug?
Funny....I've been seeing these randomly pop up on RUclips even one from Bell and Howell as of late but the one from Bell and Howell are so far the best ones I've seen
As in physically hard on the outlet? The fan is of such a low mass that there's likely far less froce applied to the socket than there is when a standard bulb is screwed into it.
@@kmoecub A standard bulb is replaced infrequently compared to a fan starting and stopping. Indeed mass is low but force = mass x acceleration and it starts very fast. There is also the fact a fan moves air. It's basically a wind brake. There are also imperfections in the balance of the blade. I have no idea how much but if the fan creates a resonant frequency we get a miniature "galloping gerdy". I've seen many poorly made light receptacles so it's difficult to calculate the impact.
I'd suspect that there is almost no impact whatsoever on the outlet. Much less than the heating and cooling that an incandescent bulb would inflict on the socket anyway. The fan has almost no mass, the brushless motor won't exert that much torque and the startup speed is controlled by the inbuilt controller's feedback circuit so the amount of torque is managed. One could argue that the direction of the fan might impart a little force to unscrew the bulb in the fixture when first turned on, but when turned off the braking effect would screw the bulb back in with approximately the same force (or vice versa). Certainly not enough to worry about. Replace the thin plastic fan with a much large fan with blades made of a heavy metal and we might see some effect, but not at this size and weight.
Don't you use boxes for ceiling installations? In the US you would typically see an octagon box or similar for a light, and something beefier for a ceiling fan. That mounting seems just fine for that sort of installation.
Ceiling roses here are generally purely ornamental. At any rate, with a box, installation should be easy enough, assuming the holes molded in the base line up with the holes in the box's flanges.
@@idjtoal look again, imagine from the front Fan spins counter clockwise from the back, which means clockwise from the front, frame spins counter clockwise ;)
@@sparkyprojects You are correct, sir, had it in my head somehow that it was right side up. Clockwise, down into the workbench, means it is a self-unscrewing lamp. The Chinese never cease to amaze.
Yeah, very weird, that capacitor on the KP219x VCC pin is normally fed from a diode on feedback winding, that would reduce/turn off the constant current trickle internally in chip, thereby increasing efficiency and reduce waste heat in switch regulator.
But unless there's a place to actually move the air outside (aka a duct), all your doing is moving the fumes (or smell) around the room. I really fail to see the purpose of this.
@@Azlehria Not about 2 hours after you have taco bell - gotta capture all of that "essence" and have it treated as hazardous waste - whirling it around the room isn't going to cut it
This fanlight might make a good bench light to blow away the solder fumes. The last black band used to indicate the tempco, but with colors other than black. I would just ignore it. I'm not sure if cutting the resistor affected only the light, or did it slow the fan? Thanks, Clive.
Does the ( small ? ) torque of the fan gently ( slowly ? ) unscrew this fitting , landing on your head , with a fair degree of surprise ( ? ) . ( no problem with a UK bayonet fitting ! ! ) ... DAVE™ 🛑
That's a curious botch, there, for sure. Never seen a broken trace before. All kinds of other stuff but a broken trace is a first. :) Thanks for sharing.
Hi, I’ve been wondering if it would be possible for you to explain to all of us who are not electronic-engineers the different terms of power factor / kVa and such… Thanks a lot for very educational and entertaining videos!
This would probably work great above my work bench in the basement, finally get some decent air moving down there. Is there a way to disable the control chip so it runs the fan whenever the light is on?
It might be worth adding a small fan and duct system if you want a continuous flow of fresh air in your basement. That can also prevent issues with mold in areas with low air movement.
I've owned devices with similar control circuits... It should "remember" the last setting every time you turn it on Notice in the video he has to cycle it very fast to change the settings
I think part of the reason why a lot of people in the UK still stick to inches is that they seem to think the alternative is to measure everything in millimetres, when in fact most of the civilised world uses _centimetres_ for "medium-sized" stuff (which is why the ruler is marked in cm, not mm).
inches are better because use less of them to do the job , and only the English made rulers originally . Plus nearly everything in the world has been inches 19 inch rack 50 caliber 3.5 floppy 0.1 inch matrix 4" block 2 inch multitrack "1/2 inch AF" is secret mechanics tool for 13mm 2 by 2 studding etc. etc.
@@channelsixtysix066the screen you're looking at now is likely a "xx inch" and just about everything electronic you've ever used has been inch-based inside fullsize headphone plug is quarter inch hard drive is 2.5 "
@@RFC3514But also many things from industries previously dominated by UK/US . However many modern component pinout grids are now metric by design, such ad 0.5mm grids . Meanwhile bureaucratic fanatics insist on official metric names such as 90mm disks and 47cm televisions .
For some reason I've always had bad luck with anything that uses switch toggling for controls. I just chalked it up to lacking the mental capacity and/or physically dexterity to make the tthings work, but based on this single example in one video I will now simply assert that they were all made with faulty tracks 😂
I knew that I had seen that type of resistor before. The bandings are Brown = 1, Black = 0, Gold = 0.1 (multiplier), Gold = 5% (tolerance), Black = non-inductive (biflar wound WW). They are used in inductive sensitive circuits Edit. Someone said it below 🙂
Ha, interesting: a miniature ceiling fan! Yeah, I've seen oscillating mini-ceiling-fans without lights in the Philippines, but this is a little dial back to the traditional type because of the light, although still very small in comparison, so yeah, that's why it's so interesting!
Dimmable with remote and 3-speed fan control: Did you avoid the same unit with remote control and fan speed/light dimming control because of doubts about reliability of the added circuits?
so i've bought one of these. mine is slightly different and has a remote control. I was wondering if there is any way to make the fan go even faster. It's a neat product but given the heat lately it'd be nice if it could move even more air
Interesting product, I think I'd like one, but in my house I don't have any ceiling mounted bare light sockets that don't either have a lamp shade around them, aren't angled perpendicular to the ceiling, don't have a cover that sits over them, or are part of a pendant light.
I suspect that there will still be plenty of space for the airflow to such in air around the back. It's not like it's high power fan and given a bit of momentum the air flow will work just fine. Look at computer cases and their fans and intakes and you'll see how you don't need that much of an air input (or what you can get away with).
I am trying to think of an actual use case or this fan. It would be no good to remove humidity or smells in a bathroom, as it would just move the air around and not actually expel any. Maybe as a loud circulatory fan in a living area, but it's a bit loud for that.
Anyone else thinking about getting some of these, a pack of hepa filter paper and you'd have a hepa filter light fixture in every room.. From personal experience hepa paper does improve air quality quite noticeably.
I have a led lamp, when powered on the light output is low, when it is power cycled it goes to medium light output, and the next power cycle it goes to high output. Maybe the same chip inside?
This fan is a good idea when in winter you want to push the heat down that just hangs under the ceiling while your feet are cold. What was that resistor you removed at the end to lower the light power?
I love how over a hundred year cycle we have come full circle to appliances that connect to a lightbulb socket
I have even seen a Kettle plugged into a light socket with the old Bakelite plug dangling down onto a table with the kettle on the end, back in the 60s, and it worked, but the kettle was an old 1 KW type.
@@MrBobWareham Travel kettle is usually 800w
Bring back the Christmas tree hahaha
It was only a few decades ago that we were on the opposite end of the cycle, the apartment I lived in back then had only 1 overhead light right at the entrance door, the rest were all "supply your own lamp" switched outlets randomly scattered around the walls of every single room. Of course that could've also just been because my landlord was too cheap for light fixtures.
To be fair, ceiling mounted fans are usually connected into the lighting circuit - particularly when combined with a light.
Interesting device. Nice that it uses short on/off mains cycle to change operating mode rather then having to set up a account in the cloud to control it.
I have several things like that. Their state is never predictable: my electric utility blinks off quite frequently. Thanks, Entergy.
>your refrigerator, doorbell and TV have entered the chat
usually they would come with a remote to control the light and fan
@@WineScroungersadly, they can do just that.
Solutions like these can be finicky, and having a separate remote for each device just sucks. There ARE decent home automation solutions that don't involve any cloud crap
The chip was primarily used in multi-colour lights. The output is connected to a white LED and a yellow-ish LED. Then you can adjust the colour temperature.
Yes I have one in my shower that doubles as a nightlight with a separate ring of amber color LEDs
Interesting. They likely wired the fan as the warm white light.
Brown Black Gold = 1R (10 x 0.1), Gold = 5%, Black = Wirewound
Thank you!
It has 2 gold bands, I wonder if that is an odd way to show 1% ?
@@terryhayward7905 The first gold is the multiplier: Brown = 1, Black = 0, Gold = x 0.1. The second is the 5%.
Manufacture of first consumer grade 5% resistors was delayed by decades because they had to wait until gold color paint came along. No, seriously before color rings they were all brown paint dipped & a color dot to indicate the resistance. 1K red dot, 100 K yellow dot etc... A radio from that era wouldn't work any better with accurate resistors, still pick up stations fine with +100% / -50% off nominal value
When "E6" invented they had to dip one end in a different color for the extra digit yellow body violet tip & orange spot = 47K
Must be a non standard resistor.
CS and GND are swapped on the datasheet because of the 1 and 2 being swapped. GND is pin 1, CS is pin 2
Thanks for always taking the time to reverse engineer and explain these consumer electronics. I love it when you find new, ingenious circuitry or chips, and I know I'm not alone when I say that I've learned a lot from your videos over the years.
Thanks for the many, many videos that I've watched and enjoyed.
Thanks Bob. That's greatly appreciated.
Glad that fixing the broken track didn't make it go kaboom.
I once fixed a broken track on a walkm... portable cassete player/recorder and radio (wasn't Sony) and the thing didn't work. I had also repaired several other tracks due to battery corrosion, but this one was away from the damaged zone and appeared to have been cut with something sharp. Sure enough, everything worked flawlessly after I disconnected it.
That chip would equally have a nice application in larger ceiling fans with lighting. Normally two wall toggle switches are used to control each function, but in a household room with only one wall switch (2 conductor wire with ground), it could make the operation more practical instead of needing a remote control or reaching for the string light/fan switch. In such a mains to mains connection with a few relays could retrofit existing installations.
There's a million dollar idea. I can hear the infomercial now. (black and white video of frustrated person shaking their head) "How many times has this happened to you? You want the fan and you can't find the remote!" (color video with happy family blown by fan) "You need the Clive-O-Matic!"
Definitely interesting. I've seen lamp fixtures with fans, but never lamps themselves. So technically, it'd make the device "The Fannylighter" (or "The Fannyluminator") :)
Instructions unclear: It's a Fannymutilator
And if Clive got the wiring wrong, Fanny Flambeau !!!
@@linuxgreybeard9945
I believe he is never to mention that product again after selling the rights to a copyright scammer.
Given those gaps, it could also be called a fingerbasher.
Or even 'fanlight fannies fan' 😂
Thank you for the ages that video took you, most impairment. Informative. Crazy that the control track was broken. No resulting explosions or fire when you fixed it, but then you can't have everything. 🙂
I still can't stop appreciating the fact you warn us when the light's coming back on.
Excellent quality control as usual.
Very neat fan-light! Thanks for taking the time to figure it out, and fix it. The Bright Power chip is neat because it emulates a traditional three-way lamp control. Could see some applications for that myself!
I did not expect to find you here, love your content btw!
I always thought that, when people complain about the heat inefficiency of lights- if you live somewhere that needs heating, you are actually using 100% of the energy (and thought that adding a fan could help circulate the heat). Didn't know they were actually a thing, even if that's not the intention.
Winters do feel colder with LED lighting. On the bright side, inductive loads such as light bulbs are a more expensive option of heating for most people anyway.
@@Mrvideosandgames I never understood why power factor correction isn't regulated by law. For small devices, the impact might be small, but that also means the cap is really cheap to correct it. And if it was required it would all add up.
Or did I misunderstand and you were talking about alternatives like nat gas or heat pumps? Cuz if you are talking about heat pumps especially, it would be amazing if we just pumped heat where it was needed around a house to make every other heat pump (or sink) more efficient- my dream home would be one where that was the case.
@@sophiophile Yeah, I just mean LEDs produce less heat than older types of bulbs, but on the flip side light bulbs aren't a great way to heat your home to begin with when electricity is triple the cost of gas (in the UK) and resistive (sorry, not inductive) heaters use about double the electricity of heat pumps.
Also electronics, including LEDs, hate heat cycles as it causes tiny fractures that will break the device way before it’s intended lifespan. Cheap LED Bulbs are often overrunning the LED chips with more amps than they need, increasing the light output but decreasing lifespan and energy efficiency. And the producer needs less LEDs for the same amount of light, making the product cheaper. Check Clive‘s Video on the Dubai Lamps, LEDs at twice the efficiency as common LEDs
A good Lamp runs LEDs at 0.5-1.0W each
I liked it so much ,I bought one! Slightly different pcb layout and different LED control chip DP9503AB but still has parallel resistors between CS and Grd pins but both SMD and both 1R80. Removed one, now 12W light with fan. Thanks Clive
Another interesting video, Big C! I couldn’t wait to see what reaction that bridge would cause. Seemed an obvious fault, but one never knows.
yeah, schems shouldn't use NC fpr possible switching pins, normally closed ,not connected
@@AndreasA.S.That schematic as shown with the NC on the mystery trace was not exactly the same chip number. Big C mentioned he had a difficult time finding many of the datasheets. The drawing shown may be a cheaper version without additional functionality of the control pin as the actual chip number ends with a ‘F’.
That was an interesting little evaluation and repair video, Clive. Cheers. You're right about the BLDC fans, they are cheap to make, lightweight for all sorts of applications and don't use much power.
Connecting wires inside the ceiling is traditional in my country and others, often upgraded to a dedicated connection outlet . But mounting a lamp specific bracket (or entire lamp) is also common .
As soon as your uncovered the back side picture my eyes went straight to the error in the circuit...like a magnet or something :)
This is a pretty neat little fan/light!
I wonder if that would make a decent ring light around a macro camera? Obviously a little removal of unneeded parts would be required, but if it is both even enough light distribution, and cheap enough, that might be a worthwhile thing to do.
Phillips has a series of "automatic" dimmer LED lamps. They have 3 light levels. Low, with warm color. Medium with warmer color and High with normal color.
The level is changed by turning the lamp off/on. I guess that chip was designed for that kind of application.
12:10 Anyone else see it? Look at the pin numbering lol! "2-1-3-4" Don't think that is standard. When they made the datasheet, someone inadvertently swapped the pins in the diagram. Makes complete sense when you flip the two pins as then the ground is tied to the local star-point to provide a stable 0V reference, which is a really good idea since you don't want noise screwing with the feedback network. Edit: Not the only one to see it from other comments here, but it would make things confusing for sure.
Looks more like an odd engine firing order than something electronic.. Usual 4 pot is 1-3-4-2 but some are different and that's a viable option although it'd sound odd...
That’s some clever capability on what is ostensibly a rather mundane device. The way of switching between the light and fan is pretty ingenious and handy (avoids having to go to the device to make the selection). Nice work reverse engineering it as well.
A great video to shine a light for your many fans 👍
I wonder if that powerful fan would make the fixture dangle around if it were mounted on one of the E27 dangling cords. Would be nice to provide airflow through the room!
You’d end up with a very twisted cord. The fixture provides the counter torque to the rotating blades.
@@robert_g_fbg Hmmm... I wonder if the fan torque direction tends to tighten or loosen the bulb? 😁
@@kimchristensen2175Watching closely, one could see the fan spins right (seen from the front, obviously) so its torque is towards left, tending to loosen the bulb. Surely it has a low torque, but when vibrations add, that could slowly unscrew the fixture. Good spotting of a potential nuisance or even failure mode !
That BrightPower chip is the same thing used in the "cold white/warm white" lightbulbs you can get at Q&B.
I love the fact that Clive can cut your electricity bill in half, just by snipping a resistor!
@@birdthrow resistance is futile?
@@birdthrow I had it done years ago... best thing I have ever done. 💯
@@MadScientistGuitarLab golden comment 💀🤣
what a interesting light. ive started seeing stuff like this as of recently. even some just a fan that screws into a socket in some cases i see these being nice for really restrained places were even smallest ceiling fan wont fit though.
Back when things used to have a warranty and worth fixing, we would make tons of money in the shop by fixing manufacturing defects like that open track.
Looks like an interesting light, especially with the fan function as that would help with the current warm weather that you get in a typical UK summer!
I'd personally tame the light down to 10W as shown in the video if using in a smaller room - if using in a larger room, or if a good amount of light was required, I'd use it full tilt at its 25W.
After all, 25W on this will give way, way more light than a 25W tungsten lamp, a 28W halogen lamp, or even a 23W CFL.
In schematic for KP219X ( 10:34 ) chip numbering starts at 2 and then 1. Maybe this is the source of confusion?
Indeed it does. Odd that they did that.
Did you notice on the data sheet that the CS and GND pins have the numbers swapped on the package outline. The GND pin is numbered 1 but is in the 2 position. So maybe that is the cause of the confusing wiring and datasheet
Yeah I think so too.
I love the way you break things open and discover ways to make them work better or in this case - as designed. I have to wonder if the broken trace was intentional. I also wonder if the higher wattage used by the lights is meant to make them burn out faster.
Very nice it does swing a lot on the end of the light flex in the ceiling 🙂
Self oscillating fan! :-)
When i was twelve, we had a bathroom light that was an enormous shaped bulb that had an heating element inside it. The idea was that it slightly heated the bathroom, whilst you were in the bath. But i was in the bath one day when it exploded. My (much to my embarrasment) big brother lifted me out of the bath, as every surface, as well as the soap, was covered in glass shards i had a narrow escape as i got hit on my left inner thigh, which burnt but didn't cut and missed anything important. They are no longer manufactured as far as i know. This was about 1966
The infrared heat lamps are still available. They do tend to fail with a bang.
Interesting chip but I noticed from the datasheet that the trigger voltage is about 170V peak (=120VAC) which makes me think it would be unreliable on US voltage. On the other hand that might be dependent on the voltage on the HV pin via a voltage divider.
Although it doesn't say how much current it can sink, the data pins can handle up to 30V through a 500 ohm resistance which suggests 60mA so it should be possible to drive a relay directly.
Now if only they were available...
NEW & IMPROVED Fan with Light - a *CLIVE Shipped with Every one.* : } BRAVO!
What an odd product, but I can see how it could be kind of a nice thing to have around. Maybe for one of those desk lamps with the articulating arm.
Congrats on your new king.
❤ brilliant 👏 and a good result acknowledges your genius status Clive ❤
Same logic as the multi-color temp LED systems - you turn the mains on and off (wall switch usually) and it steps through the modes. As long as you go back on before the time out, it will be in the next mode. most of those are cool - warm - combined as three steps, some have a half power mode as well.
Brilliantly modified Clive I’m quite impressed with the fan lamp thanks 😊
Makes you wonder if these are tested after assembly. I’m sure they save money by only testing a random sample - if any at all. I’m wondering if the missing track was a fault on only that board or maybe a whole batch?
It would be rare for any QA to test everything though.
Particularly if that was manufactured by a Chineseum crap factory = quality control does not exist in those 😠, ⚠️
I love 3 phase brushless motor fans. They tend to work a lot better, be more reliable, quieter, and project airflow a lot better. I am a big fan (pun very much intended). It is easier to have them on smaller fans, but i hope to see them more often. It is nice that it is a sensored motor too. people often prefer sensor-less ESCs, but i believe they can be a lot simpler with a simple hall effect sensor. so I tend to like sensored ESCs more, even if they have 2 or 3 hall sensors.
I have one of these but mine has a small remote control as well, with the remote you can change the light to cool white, natural, & warm white + also dim the light the remote also allows you to change the fan speed 3 settings & also a timer for the fan 1 2 or 4hrs, other than that it's basically the same as the one in the video.
I truly enjoy your work! Thank you from the US!
I bought one of these light fans expecting the PCB to be the same but it's not quite, e.g. The transformer near the LED connector and the chip near the mains input have swapped places. LED driver is an SIC9536BD
we've gone full circle to the early 1900's, connecting appliances to the light sockets :D
I have seen one which probably uses this chip. The short switching cycle toggles between cold-white, slightly-warm-white and warm-white.
"Over-volted." I'm going to start using that. "Can't deal with it today, I'm already over-volted."
Another great video Clive. These fan lights are very common in Philippines at the market to illuminate produce while keeping the flys away. Would the fan motor run in reverse if the black and red wires were swapped at the molex plug?
No. It would potentially damage the fan.
Thank you Clive, love your videos.
Funny....I've been seeing these randomly pop up on RUclips even one from Bell and Howell as of late but the one from Bell and Howell are so far the best ones I've seen
As soon as I saw the bridge rectifier I couldn't help shouting out ElectroBoom style, "FULL BRIDGE RECTIFIER!!!"
Interesting video Big Clive. I didn't catch the fan motors dc voltage rating.
About 9V.
From your modifications, it looks like the chip pins 1 and 2 might be backwards on the diagram.
The numbers are swapped on the chip package in the data sheet image. Pins 1 and 2
I see the use for renters. I'm a little skeptical about attaching a fan like that though. It spins up fast. I wonder if that's tough on the outlet.
As in physically hard on the outlet? The fan is of such a low mass that there's likely far less froce applied to the socket than there is when a standard bulb is screwed into it.
I couldn't be sure, but it seems like the startup torque of the fan exerted force in the direction of unscrewing the device from the socket.
@@kmoecub A standard bulb is replaced infrequently compared to a fan starting and stopping. Indeed mass is low but force = mass x acceleration and it starts very fast. There is also the fact a fan moves air. It's basically a wind brake. There are also imperfections in the balance of the blade. I have no idea how much but if the fan creates a resonant frequency we get a miniature "galloping gerdy". I've seen many poorly made light receptacles so it's difficult to calculate the impact.
I'd suspect that there is almost no impact whatsoever on the outlet. Much less than the heating and cooling that an incandescent bulb would inflict on the socket anyway.
The fan has almost no mass, the brushless motor won't exert that much torque and the startup speed is controlled by the inbuilt controller's feedback circuit so the amount of torque is managed. One could argue that the direction of the fan might impart a little force to unscrew the bulb in the fixture when first turned on, but when turned off the braking effect would screw the bulb back in with approximately the same force (or vice versa). Certainly not enough to worry about.
Replace the thin plastic fan with a much large fan with blades made of a heavy metal and we might see some effect, but not at this size and weight.
Very interesting.
Thank you Clive .
✌💚🇬🇧
Those plastic fans ... I got a dimplex heater with one which fell off and caught fire on the element almost, shocking
Don't you use boxes for ceiling installations? In the US you would typically see an octagon box or similar for a light, and something beefier for a ceiling fan. That mounting seems just fine for that sort of installation.
We usually use a ceiling rose. An ornate junction box for the pendant light. In an office environment there may be conduit and round metal boxes.
Ceiling roses here are generally purely ornamental.
At any rate, with a box, installation should be easy enough, assuming the holes molded in the base line up with the holes in the box's flanges.
@@PaulSteMarie In new construction that's true, but the average age of a home in the UK is older than the US as a nation.
I think i would be concerned that when the fan starts, it unscrews from the fitting
Or if it's a pendant holder it might twist around
Interesting point. But 13:20 the fan spins counter-clockwise which means it's "pushing" clockwise when it starts, ?
@@idjtoal look again, imagine from the front
Fan spins counter clockwise from the back, which means clockwise from the front, frame spins counter clockwise ;)
@@sparkyprojects You are correct, sir, had it in my head somehow that it was right side up. Clockwise, down into the workbench, means it is a self-unscrewing lamp. The Chinese never cease to amaze.
Yeah, very weird, that capacitor on the KP219x VCC pin is normally fed from a diode on feedback winding, that would reduce/turn off the constant current trickle internally in chip, thereby increasing efficiency and reduce waste heat in switch regulator.
I'd love to see a real close up microscope shot of that defect. Curious if you've found an etching issue in the wild.
Awesome video again, Clive - I'd have loved to see your actions and hear your thoughts processes as you Reverse Engineered it.
You could possibly use it to both light up and remove fumes from a work area if it will happily pull the air away
But unless there's a place to actually move the air outside (aka a duct), all your doing is moving the fumes (or smell) around the room. I really fail to see the purpose of this.
@@gorak9000In some cases _reducing concentration_ is sufficiently protective.
@@Azlehria Not about 2 hours after you have taco bell - gotta capture all of that "essence" and have it treated as hazardous waste - whirling it around the room isn't going to cut it
This fanlight might make a good bench light to blow away the solder fumes.
The last black band used to indicate the tempco, but with colors other than black. I would just ignore it.
I'm not sure if cutting the resistor affected only the light, or did it slow the fan?
Thanks, Clive.
It just limited the current to the LEDs.
@@bigclivedotcom Clive, an off-topic question, but what happened to your left hand's middle finger?
Does the ( small ? ) torque of the fan gently ( slowly ? ) unscrew this fitting , landing on your head , with a fair degree of surprise ( ? ) . ( no problem with a UK bayonet fitting ! ! ) ... DAVE™ 🛑
I saw something on ebay that is similar and has a remote. And another one with RGB and other features. I pictured Clive with a feather boa!
That's a curious botch, there, for sure. Never seen a broken trace before. All kinds of other stuff but a broken trace is a first. :) Thanks for sharing.
That looks great… might go look for one or two
The mains connection (when direct wired) should be in the celing, as that's where the junction box lives.
I really loved this one. And definitely well worth while.
Hi, I’ve been wondering if it would be possible for you to explain to all of us who are not electronic-engineers the different terms of power factor / kVa and such… Thanks a lot for very educational and entertaining videos!
This would probably work great above my work bench in the basement, finally get some decent air moving down there. Is there a way to disable the control chip so it runs the fan whenever the light is on?
It might be worth adding a small fan and duct system if you want a continuous flow of fresh air in your basement. That can also prevent issues with mold in areas with low air movement.
I've owned devices with similar control circuits... It should "remember" the last setting every time you turn it on
Notice in the video he has to cycle it very fast to change the settings
I think part of the reason why a lot of people in the UK still stick to inches is that they seem to think the alternative is to measure everything in millimetres, when in fact most of the civilised world uses _centimetres_ for "medium-sized" stuff (which is why the ruler is marked in cm, not mm).
inches are better because use less of them to do the job , and only the English made rulers originally .
Plus nearly everything in the world has been inches 19 inch rack 50 caliber 3.5 floppy 0.1 inch matrix 4" block 2 inch multitrack "1/2 inch AF" is secret mechanics tool for 13mm 2 by 2 studding etc. etc.
Hmm, I measure everything in mm or metres. I guess I'm used to it. Metric is all I've ever used, since the early 1970s. 🦘
@@channelsixtysix066the screen you're looking at now is likely a "xx inch" and just about everything electronic you've ever used has been inch-based inside fullsize headphone plug is quarter inch hard drive is 2.5 "
@@jagmarc - Yeah, in the (very few) parts of the world that use inches, everything seems to "be" inches. Imagine that. 😄
@@RFC3514But also many things from industries previously dominated by UK/US . However many modern component pinout grids are now metric by design, such ad 0.5mm grids . Meanwhile bureaucratic fanatics insist on official metric names such as 90mm disks and 47cm televisions .
Fan-tastic video
Thanks for sharing
For some reason I've always had bad luck with anything that uses switch toggling for controls. I just chalked it up to lacking the mental capacity and/or physically dexterity to make the tthings work, but based on this single example in one video I will now simply assert that they were all made with faulty tracks 😂
Thanks Clive 👍🇮🇪🙏🏻
I knew that I had seen that type of resistor before. The bandings are Brown = 1, Black = 0, Gold = 0.1 (multiplier), Gold = 5% (tolerance), Black = non-inductive (biflar wound WW).
They are used in inductive sensitive circuits
Edit. Someone said it below 🙂
Good to know!
It's only missing a little potted ioniser circuit.. perhaps a tad tricky to feed the emitter through to centre of fan?
It could have been mounted in part of the LED ring at the side.
*Can we take a moment to appreciate how much work he puts into these videos for us 😍*
Bot
Ha, interesting: a miniature ceiling fan! Yeah, I've seen oscillating mini-ceiling-fans without lights in the Philippines, but this is a little dial back to the traditional type because of the light, although still very small in comparison, so yeah, that's why it's so interesting!
Dimmable with remote and 3-speed fan control: Did you avoid the same unit with remote control and fan speed/light dimming control because of doubts about reliability of the added circuits?
so i've bought one of these. mine is slightly different and has a remote control. I was wondering if there is any way to make the fan go even faster. It's a neat product but given the heat lately it'd be nice if it could move even more air
Interesting product, I think I'd like one, but in my house I don't have any ceiling mounted bare light sockets that don't either have a lamp shade around them, aren't angled perpendicular to the ceiling, don't have a cover that sits over them, or are part of a pendant light.
Right up against the wall would be way too close for the airflow doesn’t look like as much depth
I suspect that there will still be plenty of space for the airflow to such in air around the back. It's not like it's high power fan and given a bit of momentum the air flow will work just fine. Look at computer cases and their fans and intakes and you'll see how you don't need that much of an air input (or what you can get away with).
Another fantastic and enlightening video. 😐👍
I have one of these except it looks a bit different, it came with a remote to change all the various functions.
Hmm, I see a smartlife integration coming on or even hubitat via broadlink.
Quite funny that the Edison fixing screws off using a Bayonet motion.
So, the "cut" track that was bridged; looking closely, it seems it's from Pin 2 of the BP2867F? Is that right
These would actually be really nice in the garage. Especially this time of year when it gets stupid hot out there
I am trying to think of an actual use case or this fan.
It would be no good to remove humidity or smells in a bathroom, as it would just move the air around and not actually expel any. Maybe as a loud circulatory fan in a living area, but it's a bit loud for that.
That's an interesting fan. I might have to look at those.
Well, that was fantastically enlightening. 😁
OB definitely seems like a typo of OE (output enable).
Anyone else thinking about getting some of these, a pack of hepa filter paper and you'd have a hepa filter light fixture in every room..
From personal experience hepa paper does improve air quality quite noticeably.
I have a led lamp, when powered on the light output is low, when it is power cycled it goes to medium light output, and the next power cycle it goes to high output. Maybe the same chip inside?
Ahhh... the "Fannyblaster". In pink, of course.
It is indeed the pink fannyblaster. That has completely different meanings depending on where you are in the world.
This fan is a good idea when in winter you want to push the heat down that just hangs under the ceiling while your feet are cold.
What was that resistor you removed at the end to lower the light power?
The LED driver had two resistors in parallel to set the current. I removed one so the resistance ended up higher.