You’re setting yourself up to be the Arbitor Ian of Warhammer Fantasy and that is not a bad role to fill. Can’t wait to see what you have in store for us in future.
6th Edition was definitely the best by far, imo. Storm of Chaos (story, not the actual event), the balance, the number of armies... it really was the peak of WH Fantasy.
there was something about 5th, the power of monsters and heroes the art style and models. Not from a balance perspetive but just truly warhammer Magic cards too
I can’t agree enough with your assessment of how much this hobby encouraged & expanded my literacy, numeracy and imagination. It’s a testament to the creators that they never talked down to their audience!
Brilliant retrospective and a wonderful walk down memory lane, I came in at the start of 5th Edition and suffered at the hands of Herohammer until they ironed that out of the system in 6th. The Old World holds a very large and strong part of my childhood and teens, so I join in the raising of frothing cup bugman's and let's sing the song of my people! "What do we do with drunken Goblin, What do we do with a Druken goblin early in the mornin?!" ... :)
Oh 5th ed WHFB was as much a trash fire as 2nd 40k. Now maybe if every rule was used and mission/scenarios were used in both the Hero nonsense might have been mitigated nobody did so every army was tiny and based around the most powerful models and units.
@@CaptainRufus the problem with both those games is the studio guys made games that they wanted to play, they didn't factor in 14 yr olds trying to demolish their mates with the most broken list possible which was my experience 99% of the time. 2nd ed 40k has all sorts of fun bits and charm but overall unless you are playing a scenario with restrictive rules it's a broken unsatisfying mess
My father, bless him, bought me that box set for 6th edition back in the day. No idea why he let some kid mess up all that money but I’ll never forget how supportive he was of it - even built me a painting desk for them.
Looking forward to the fighting Fantasy video. This one was great, very interesting to learn about Warhammer's routes. Keeping fingers crossed you'll do a history of Space Hulk at some point :)
Oooh yes! Warlock of Firetop mountain was great and the Deathtrap Dungeon was tough as hell! They paved the way for Joe Dever to make the Lone Wolf series, arguably the most popular Choose your Own Adventure series.
I’m glad you made this video (and the future ones). I stopped playing GW in the 90s when I started spending my pocket money/wages on music and beer. I went back into GW in my 30s just to see what was going on and found that all the warhammer stuff I played had completely vanished. I had no idea what was going on. This has explained it a bit for me. Cheers!
Brilliant video, will be the sort of vid I rewatch annually. as a tabletop terrain designer and world builder your channel is perfect to play through while I'm designing. cheers for the content!
Thanks so much! Glad you enjoyed the retrospective - the first 3 episodes of the deeper dives are already out with more still to come, hope they live up to expectations!
Love your work, always interesting to hear someone share the origins of their passions/hobbies and talk about the legacy of getting into it as a kid 🙏🏾💪🏾
I learned to play with 2nd, after inheriting the boxed game sans high elves. I then played tournament Warhammer for much of 6th, which was fantastic. Great video
That was the edition we began playing. We had a fantastic time with it. It definitely had holes and problems. I just saw an interview with Robin Dews, and he said the 3rd edition was unplayable. I don't agree with him. It needs some house modifications, but...
Amazing, absolutely amazing. I have scans of Warhammer Fantasy books going all the way back to WHFB all the way to End Times but there were a number of books and precursors I didn't know about. I'm excited to dive headlong into them.
Just discovered your work and can't wait to dive in. Like you, I think I owe a lot to Warhammer Fantasy. Got my first Lizardmen army between the 5th and 6th editions and learned a lot of writing, world building, and maths from the game. And about a year ago I became a contributor to Warhammer Fantasy Role Play, most notably Lustria. So extremely excited to see someone doing an affectionate deep dive like this.
Your getting better and better each time and id say a lot more comfortable doing it which is great to see!! As i do love these historical videos you create!! 😊
Absolutely loved this video. Recently started my return journey into Fantasy in the lead up to The Old World, and managed to get my son enthused as I was as a kid starting with 3rd Ed. I love reminiscing about old editions, looking forward to watching the rest of your series on this. Funnily enough a friend and I are just about to start a limited podcast series on my own channel taking about our own Fantasy gaming memories and experiences over the many editions, your videos will be a great source for info and inspiration.
I’m glad you liked it! I’m the same, love spending time drawing inspiration from the classics and my own gaming past! Happy to have given a little inspiration for your pod too, I’ll look out for it!
as someone who first heard about AoS and then joined the hobby with 8th warhammer. everything before is so very fascinating to me so thank you very much for this video
I just pulled my old (now I know) 4th edition rulebook out of a storage bin and was traveling down memory lane, thanks for this video that helped me figure out what edition it was so I know what has changed!
My old Uni society had a copy of 1E Warhammer and to this day I think the lack of HUNGRY MENFISH is what WH has been lacking in the modern age. Alignment: Hungry amuses me to this day.
Marvellous video, sir! Ahh, the warm fuzzy nostalgia feels. Really impressed with your focus, research, clear delivery and all round quality too! Subscribed, and looking forward to watching more of these whenever i have time :)
4th Ed was when I started WHFB aaaaaahhh the memories and still my fav era of the game. I left the hobby before 6th Ed hit and then came back to it in 2010 8th ed and was dismayed by how everything was different - didn't like the new magic system, fav characters nerffed to nothing, you had to have ridiculous large unit numbers and it didn't have the same feeling that I had back in 4th and 5th ed.
I started with 4th too, though 3rd was still floating around too. The massive units required for later editions definitely got trying, but there were aspects I still really enjoyed
@@jordansorcery the good thing about 4th ed you still could get the classic old 80s minis still got the 4 old Chaos Greater Daemons still love those old greater deamons and the old Pink Horrors - one which strangely reminds me of Tony Blair - although was out way before he came to power lol
It does seem like at some point GW began to reduce the points cost of everything to encourage people to buy more models. Certainly in 40k there was a points reduction between 2nd and 3rd editions, but for WFB I only played 5th edition so I'm not sure when they started on that.
Another great Warham-mentry. I started with the 1st with my older Brother. 2nd really got us hooked into the narrative world, from there WFRP 1st and WFB 3rd went hand in hand tying together our campaigns and character development. we played 3rd the most as all the armies were in one book (and not behind a paywall). However, saying that we continued to get the newer editions up till 6th for the new lore - but we mainly play 3rd. Before 7th we all had to take on real life. We all kept our toes in the Warhammer world through other media games. Like yourself, we were very much annoyed that the Old World became the The World that Was. Of course, we completely ignored that outcome for our WFRP games - we won! That also skewed my view for AoS, but over time it I have grown to like it - like a distant cousin. Keep up the 'Great Work'
Love your content. I watched all your stuff!. With you do the complete history till the present day (the old world) including AOS? As i would love that!!. Keep up the fantastic work!
Great video man, the nostalgia was firing on all cylinders. Would love to hear your thoughts on the 9th Age, the community driven rank and file fantasy project, I know the lore isn't there, but the game itself is amazing
Well done! I started this gaming madness with Warhammer 40K 2nd Edition. Because of the sci-fi nature, I never got into Warhammer Fantasy Battle. But, I SO wish that I had. I am excited about The Old World being released and I WILL NOT miss out on it.
"The game was lambasted for its frequent errors and typos" - having built some Heavy Intercessors last night and coming across two different mistakes in the instructions, I'm glad to see some traditions are still going strong! Seriously though, great stuff, looking forward to this series!
I'm a little too young for the early editions but my dad did pick me up the 5th edition box on sale for £10 because a new edition was coming out and it went well with my battle masters boardgame. 40k 3rd edition was the game for me but I did picked up fantasy 6th and 7th... I had a rough orc and goblin army verses empire and dwarf allies. Both excellent games and a nice fantasy break over sci-fi (alongside mordhiem).. My cousin picked up chaos warriors and I just had no counter for them halfway round 7th and I pretty much shelved the models and gave many of them to my younger brother.
Excellent history video. You missed out Storm of Chaos though, which might be the single most important event in WFB history, including its aftermath. Might be worth its own video, along with a focus on the 6th edition campaigns. I love 8th the most too!
I fell in love with the lore, and to have it suddenly end hurt. Getting back into the game, and trying AoS, but have been approaching the lore with dread, hoping it’s not terrible.
I came into WHF with the 3rd edition, and played my way over the years through 7th. My favorite edition will always be 6th edition, not just for the balanced army books, rules, and supplements, but because it was a time when I felt like a part of a wonderful hobby with passionate players, and a GW led by good people who truly supported their community. A tilt of the banner to Rick and Nigel!
Great sinopsis! I have wached the deep dive videos and found myself remembering so many great moments with WFB, on a table tenis improvised battlefield. Wood elves vs dwarfs, two haphazardlyassembled forces on a barren land with no cover for the slow moving dwarfs, save a cheeky forest behing WE. Completely unbalanced, but fun nonetheless (I was playing the WE :D). Eagerly waiting for episode/chapter 5! Please, make a Blood Bowl series!
I vividly remember the release of fourth edition. All those covers bring back memories ! Not of the game itself, mind you, I was a kid and did not have this kind of money, but from the White Dwarfs I bought almost every month ^^
Hey Jordan, thank you for absolutely lovely and insightful content - and thanks for naming and crediting all the great artists (unlike a certain company, whom I shall not name).
My pleasure, I’m glad you liked it! I’m sure there are some creative personnel who were involved that I’ve not been able to include or talk about as much as they deserve - such is the challenge of researching a topic this big - but I’m keen to recognise as many of the important people as I can!
I played Warhammer Fantasy Battle in its 3rd and 4th editions. I even (tried) reading Warhammer Siege, a supplement for which the term "crunchy" is a vast understatement. To be honest I prefer to experience the Old World through WFRP rather than battles, but this was a fascinating overview of the game's history and even though it may not be my favourite game it is the thing that allowed everything GW did after its release to happen and for that it should be feted.
I’ve often heard the Warhammer setting described as a better RPG world than a war gaming one, and I half agree! It’s absolutely a fantastic place to explore in role play, but I’d be sorry not to field a few armies on its battlefields too!
I feel like the sea elves kind of ended up as part of the high elves I was so glad when someone suggested i get a copy of the small rule book from ebay after months of carrying it around with me to game.
I think you’re probably right. Though I like to think they informed the eventual creation of the Idoneth for AoS. I remember the staff at my local store would always joke that fishmen were the next army - little did I know there once were fishmen in Warhammer. Or that there would be again!
A very interesting video, nice work. I never played WF directly (I was and am on the scifi side with 40k), but my brother did, so I had always a grasp of what was happening. The lore was and still is beautiful, though of course is pretty much stolen here and there from real life and other fiction works, as you say. I enjoyed reading the various Army Books I could put my hands on (the Empire was my favourite one) and thought that this game had so much potential, so I was surprised when it all came to an end. My brother felt like he had been screwed by GW, not only because the replacement was something not in his veins (reading about it, I felt it wasn't in mine neither), but also because his beloved army had basically disappeared. This moment was also when I opened my eyes to GW commercial practices and started being more careful on my purchases and support of their work, to the point where I now support other games (my brother joined me and definitely abandoned GW) and, if/when buying their minis, only buy them in the 2nd hand market. I'm not entirely sure that GW move of getting the Old World back is a good one. On one hand, it may satisfy those players that want an "official" Old World and hope to create once again a thriving official community, but on the other one it sounds just a commercial move to get back players who drifted from GW to alternative Old Worlds (such as 9th Edition). Not to mention that, if I where a WF player, I wouldn't trust too much a company that basically swept the rug under my feet and now says it wants to give it back to me. Just my 2 cents.
I’ll definitely be interested to see how this all plays out. The decision to end the Warhammer world was, of course, a commercial one, and whilst it appears to have been a financial success I do wonder about the long term artistic impact. So I am excited to see how the Old World revival plays out!
how appropriate that skaven have always been my favourite race/faction in warhammer, having been introduced to the world in spring '86 (just like me! there's something strangely pleasing about the knowledge that i've been kicking around for, apparently, approximately (± a month or two) the same length of time as my favourite fantasy race)
I was a 6th edition Ogres player in my teens, I had so much fun with that army. Hopefully The Old World release will allow me to get my Ogre lads on the field again so they consume for the Maw!
In the last part of this video you touched on the magic of tabletop gaming in general. My math skills would be appalling if it wasn't for rpgs and war games. I loved this video, and as my experience with Warhammer lies primarily in the Fantasy setting, albeit more in the rpg than the war game, I too mourned its passing.
Thanks for the historical perspective! Very enlightening. I have always wondered about all the Warhammer products GW issued and their timelines. 2nd and 3rd editions were it for me, along with the first Battle Magic box. Once I figured out that there was no limit on the number of editions GW would release, and no end to the bilking of the players; that is, you don't just buy more miniatures, but constantly are forced into buying more and more rules sets and supplements in order to play the game at convention tournaments and in the stores, I wised up and moved on. The miniatures are also too cartoonish for my taste, but that's a personal preference issue. More to the point, there are so many better/less complicated rules sets for all occasions out there that are not constantly morphing; home rules amongst them. After watching a few 6th edition battles on RUclips, I've concluded that they do look like fun, with good game mechanics. Still, there are too many ridiculous add-ons with the banners, command, magic items, scrolls et. al.
I too got annoyed with all the updated rules and started to feel used. I took a look back in time and decided to settle on 3rd edition. I love 4th/5th edition equally, but I feel 3rd edition has a little more flexibility when making an army. I've now replaced my Bretonnians and Empire miniatures with historical miniatures and am working on a Dark Elf Army made of 3rd-4th edition miniatures.
Really enjoyed this. 4th edition was the one I remember most, along with all its army books. I remember 5th edition releasing (I may have even bought it?) but by that point I was moving away from GW as I got older. I didn’t particularly like the Bretonnians and Lizardmen included in the set. I enjoyed learning about everything after 6th edition’s release as it’s all new to me. Thanks!
Glad I could help share some lost history! At the time I wasn’t too keen on the Lizardmen or Bretonnians either, though I would eventually field a Lizardmen army by 8th edition!
I got into WFB at the end if the 3rd edition era, I bought the rulebook and spent months poring over it, then by the time i was ready to start playing they released 4th edition 😂 I loved the relative simplicity (and affordability) of the models back then.
Warhammer fantasy has for me, ever since I got into tabletop wargaming back in 1998, felt like a game that "almost" got it right, but every edition had one major or two issues that prevented it from being my go-to game (though I still played it a lot, I have two full 3000 points+ armies, and love the lore). 5th edition was my first edition, and the Herohammer part was indeed a bit of an issue. My gaming group quickly realized that tricked out heroes was the way to go, and so it became a bit of an arms race in that department, and whoever had the better heroes tended to win. 6th edition was a very solid edition, though it still had some issues, and in retrospect I was one of the "problem players", as I built a Southlands lizardmen army, in other words a skink-based army that was 80% skirmishers. Not very fun to play against, and toning it down was the right move with 7th. Though apart from things like all skirmish armies and a few other gimmicky lists I feel like 6th edition was the closest the game came to being outstanding. 7th edition had really good core rules, but the balance... Lots of people in my group left because they found it frustrating to play against certain armies, and our poor orc players were really not having a good time (orc units suffered from animosity 1/3 of the time in 7th, as opposed to the regular 1/6 of the time in older edition). 8th edition was really fun... until people figured it out, and then it just became a bit of a slog, with big blocks of infantry that just never ran away and magic dominating the battlefield. Also, the rules felt really bloated. Some good ideas here, but I do suspect that 8th edition was rushed out the door a bit too early as the balance of 7th edition was becoming a real issue for GW.
Some editions definitely felt more at the mercy of the opponents list, but I think I was lucky in having plenty of regular opponents with fun to play against armies. I do get what you mean about ‘almost’ nailing it each time though - there were always a few awkward things in each edition!
Hiya, really enjoy your videos. I had 2nd edition and 5th edition but never managed to play much. What armies do you have? I have my old skaven and high elves ready for the Old World
I’m glad you’re enjoying them, Jack! I’ve currently got Skaven and Tzeentch for Warhammer and Tau for 40k, but I made the recent decision to get stuck into a new Empire army in time for the Old World!
I did love the warhammer wold, then in one of the latter editions it was decided that everyone and reverting needed to be All Grim All The Time and all the awesome character and atmosphere became monotone.
I love Mordheim for its dark, despairing tone which makes sense because the city was destroyed in a cataclysm and everyone there is there as human (or elves, or possessed, or...) carrion. Though the rules and balance of sixth are great the increase in miniature scale, perma-dark tone and vilifying of the "good" races (Empire is psychotically xenophobic, high elves are haughty, in-fighting egotists, wood elf allies are almost as willing to murder the elves as anything else, Bretonnian knights are no longer chivalrous but petty and entitled) removed the ability to root for anyone and minimized the differences between groups. Storm of chaos was where I realized I was out. The good forces crushed evil through the campaign so the creatively bankrupt GW creatives overturned the results, ignored the opportunity to take Warhammer in a new direction - imagine seventh edition focusing on a renaissance for the good races - they settled into the same rut they'd been in for decades and alienated a good number of the Storm participants, particularly from the good races. Ah well, I still play the game with fifth ed and have a blast.
I was there at the beginning in the UK. Warlock of firetop mountain.... I remember getting it for a birthday, or xmas.... Those books were absolutely amazing. I also got Warhammers 1st edition. And my best friend bought the Warhammer Fantasy Role playing game system. That was instantly better than DnD and ADnD .. man the memories all this gives me...
I am a little bit late to this one, but I’m glad I paid attention to it more than just background whilst painting. Like you, WFB from about 4th onwards was a MASSIVE part of my life up till seventh. I hit a rather terrible patch in my life and sadly missed out on eighth, and the end times and again, like yourself Jordan I was Not enamoured by AoS when I did come back to hobby 5 years ago. That all said, I stuck with it, and now have yet another dwarfy set of forces (both kharadron and fyreslayers.) and the starting sod others too, I have warmed up to it. I do like the lore and background. But mostly since Gotrek came back. I feel Gotrek repress is older guys and gals far more than we give credit for. Older, set in ways, and stubborn. Yet here we are, loyal till the end and even beyond. Making new oaths. New allies and (Fr)enemies. Or perhaps I’m just looking too deeply into my fave character. Another fab video Jordan. Well worth punting Patreon for. I await the next dives eagerly.
The game has really been a life changer for me, and the end times were a real shame in my opinion. I’m glad I did manage to come round on AoS though as it’s got some really good stuff to offer. Still miss that old world though!
They’ll get a mention, but the likes of Warmaster, Ancient Battles, and Mordheim deserve deep dives of their own I think. I have already released a retrospective series on Warhammer Quest if that’s of interest - ruclips.net/video/cSsgOtXldOI/видео.html
Played 3rd, 4th and 5th, and 3rd Edition is by far still the best (obviously cannot compare to those I haven't read or played of course). 3rd Edition bordered on perfection (sans the many niggling details, but tish to those!)
First! Really looking forward to watching this. We comment my thoughts after/ I came in at 5th, left when 6th came in and now getting back into it. Curious to see what the new one will be
Another very well-made and also very educational and useful video! I'm amazed that Mordheim was only released in 1999. I was so sure I had heard of it before... :D
@@jordansorcery Possibly. :D I started playing it in 2001, and I always had the impression that it's been around for quite some time (certainly longer than 2 years). Maybe I was confusing it with Necromunda? Who knows. :D
I don’t mind them too much - there’s some very cool designs and bits of lore, even if they are a clear attempt to transpose Space Marines in to a Fantasy setting. Like marines though, they don’t really excite me enough, and I can’t imagine collecting/playing them myself
Great video, we played 1st and 2nd edition. We did get the third edition, but were not fans of the rigid base to base, wheeling, old style wargaming amnd drifted off the 40K as you could still skirmish better. What we did like about third edition was the war machines, who doesn't like a snotling pump wagon
Can’t beat the snotlings! Things did get further and further into complex wheeling and ‘close the door’ charges and stuff, it definitely made 40k’s somewhat simpler coherency rules seem at appealing at times!
You’re setting yourself up to be the Arbitor Ian of Warhammer Fantasy and that is not a bad role to fill. Can’t wait to see what you have in store for us in future.
Probably better. Just sayin'
Fantasy is so clouded if you try to rescheqrch it. It really good. The comparison is great and who knows maybe one day we have an AOS/fantasy Luetin09
A very generous comparison, thank you!
You’re too kind!
Ian is trash, what an insult.
Here to pay my respects, RIP Bryan Ansell. You literal Legend.
6th Edition was definitely the best by far, imo. Storm of Chaos (story, not the actual event), the balance, the number of armies... it really was the peak of WH Fantasy.
There’s a lot to love about 6th!
I only experienced 4th but I've been reading the 6th edition books and I couldn't agree more. Such flavor and vibe.
@@ciscornBIG It really was a great time for the hobby :)
there was something about 5th, the power of monsters and heroes the art style and models.
Not from a balance perspetive but just truly warhammer
Magic cards too
If they wanted to make a great the old world, a 6-8 eds rules mix would be perfect
5th and 6th edition will always be my special place, the glory years, but I love it all! Great vid! 🔥
Some fantastic stuff in 5th and 6th! Truthfully there’s bits of them all that I really love!
I can’t agree enough with your assessment of how much this hobby encouraged & expanded my literacy, numeracy and imagination. It’s a testament to the creators that they never talked down to their audience!
Absolutely, they somehow managed to engage, inspire, enthuse, and educate all at the same time!
@@jordansorcery Same here. This hobby led me to paint miniatures, play Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, read hordes of fantasy and sci-fi novels etc.
Brilliant retrospective and a wonderful walk down memory lane, I came in at the start of 5th Edition and suffered at the hands of Herohammer until they ironed that out of the system in 6th. The Old World holds a very large and strong part of my childhood and teens, so I join in the raising of frothing cup bugman's and let's sing the song of my people! "What do we do with drunken Goblin, What do we do with a Druken goblin early in the mornin?!" ... :)
I’m sure I remember singing that on the coach to Games Day in Birmingham!
Oh 5th ed WHFB was as much a trash fire as 2nd 40k. Now maybe if every rule was used and mission/scenarios were used in both the Hero nonsense might have been mitigated nobody did so every army was tiny and based around the most powerful models and units.
@@CaptainRufus the problem with both those games is the studio guys made games that they wanted to play, they didn't factor in 14 yr olds trying to demolish their mates with the most broken list possible which was my experience 99% of the time. 2nd ed 40k has all sorts of fun bits and charm but overall unless you are playing a scenario with restrictive rules it's a broken unsatisfying mess
@@paulyg405 in my experience its the 20 and 30 somethings making the most broken lists possible.
I see what you did there.
Keep up the good work!
I couldn’t help it!
My father, bless him, bought me that box set for 6th edition back in the day. No idea why he let some kid mess up all that money but I’ll never forget how supportive he was of it - even built me a painting desk for them.
I've fond memories of 3rd edition. Looking forward to your Fighting Fantasy retrospective. I'll pack my leather armour, short sword and D6 provisions.
Wise precautions, all!
Yup, 3rd edition WFB for me.
Looking forward to the fighting Fantasy video. This one was great, very interesting to learn about Warhammer's routes. Keeping fingers crossed you'll do a history of Space Hulk at some point :)
Oooh yes! Warlock of Firetop mountain was great and the Deathtrap Dungeon was tough as hell! They paved the way for Joe Dever to make the Lone Wolf series, arguably the most popular Choose your Own Adventure series.
I’m hoping to tackle Space Hulk in the reasonably near future!
I’m glad you made this video (and the future ones). I stopped playing GW in the 90s when I started spending my pocket money/wages on music and beer. I went back into GW in my 30s just to see what was going on and found that all the warhammer stuff I played had completely vanished. I had no idea what was going on. This has explained it a bit for me. Cheers!
Happy to help! Hope you enjoy the next few as well!
Brilliant video, will be the sort of vid I rewatch annually. as a tabletop terrain designer and world builder your channel is perfect to play through while I'm designing. cheers for the content!
That’s very nice of you to say!
I can really appreciate the 4K HD option for your vids, Jordan. Banger subject as always!
I’m not sure I always nail the cinematography, but I’m hopefully getting more value out of the camera each time!
@@jordansorcery You are doing good, work, friend! Keep it up
Great, speedy overview of the various editions! Looking forward to the deep dives of the various editions.
Thanks so much! Glad you enjoyed the retrospective - the first 3 episodes of the deeper dives are already out with more still to come, hope they live up to expectations!
Loved 4th edition. A lot of love went into that box!
Absolutely, such a fantastic box
This and me and my borthers still got it and 5 complete armies painted and all. Now standing in a showcase.
Love your work, always interesting to hear someone share the origins of their passions/hobbies and talk about the legacy of getting into it as a kid 🙏🏾💪🏾
I learned to play with 2nd, after inheriting the boxed game sans high elves. I then played tournament Warhammer for much of 6th, which was fantastic. Great video
Best video I’ve seen on this topic by far! Keep giving us Old World content.
Will do!
Just picked up a copy of 3rd. Can't wait to try it
That was the edition we began playing. We had a fantastic time with it. It definitely had holes and problems. I just saw an interview with Robin Dews, and he said the 3rd edition was unplayable. I don't agree with him. It needs some house modifications, but...
As someone from the States, it was at 12 I found this wondrous setting. I got a bit of nostalgia and stumbled on you. Keep it up!
Amazing, absolutely amazing. I have scans of Warhammer Fantasy books going all the way back to WHFB all the way to End Times but there were a number of books and precursors I didn't know about. I'm excited to dive headlong into them.
I have a second edition magic rulebook stamped inside with gift from a troll sent as apology for late delivery
I miss those kindly mail order trolls!
Just discovered your work and can't wait to dive in. Like you, I think I owe a lot to Warhammer Fantasy. Got my first Lizardmen army between the 5th and 6th editions and learned a lot of writing, world building, and maths from the game. And about a year ago I became a contributor to Warhammer Fantasy Role Play, most notably Lustria. So extremely excited to see someone doing an affectionate deep dive like this.
Your getting better and better each time and id say a lot more comfortable doing it which is great to see!!
As i do love these historical videos you create!! 😊
Absolutely loved this video. Recently started my return journey into Fantasy in the lead up to The Old World, and managed to get my son enthused as I was as a kid starting with 3rd Ed.
I love reminiscing about old editions, looking forward to watching the rest of your series on this. Funnily enough a friend and I are just about to start a limited podcast series on my own channel taking about our own Fantasy gaming memories and experiences over the many editions, your videos will be a great source for info and inspiration.
I’m glad you liked it! I’m the same, love spending time drawing inspiration from the classics and my own gaming past! Happy to have given a little inspiration for your pod too, I’ll look out for it!
Great overview of the various editions & wonderfully presented.
Thank you, as ever!
as someone who first heard about AoS and then joined the hobby with 8th warhammer. everything before is so very fascinating to me so thank you very much for this video
My pleasure, I’m glad I could share a bit of that older history!
I find the 'home typewriter' aesthetic of the earlier editions has a certain charm :)
Couldn't click on this vid fast enough!
Really good content as always.
Good luck with the Patreon and the continued growth of the channel.
Thanks Stevo! Hoping to keep the momentum growing now!
I just pulled my old (now I know) 4th edition rulebook out of a storage bin and was traveling down memory lane, thanks for this video that helped me figure out what edition it was so I know what has changed!
My old Uni society had a copy of 1E Warhammer and to this day I think the lack of HUNGRY MENFISH is what WH has been lacking in the modern age.
Alignment: Hungry amuses me to this day.
Have you checked out the new HeroQuest from Avalon Hill/Hasbro? Their "abominations" might be of interest to you!
Agreed! Though Age of Sigmar adding an entire army of sea elves and ‘almost’ menfish was a pleasant retro surprise!
Marvellous video, sir! Ahh, the warm fuzzy nostalgia feels.
Really impressed with your focus, research, clear delivery and all round quality too! Subscribed, and looking forward to watching more of these whenever i have time :)
Thank you, I appreciate the kind words!
Man, you have earned my subscription. i love history of warhammer as game and watching all of Yours videos was real pleasure for me.
That’s really nice of you to say, I’m glad you’re liking them!
4th Ed was when I started WHFB aaaaaahhh the memories and still my fav era of the game. I left the hobby before 6th Ed hit and then came back to it in 2010 8th ed and was dismayed by how everything was different - didn't like the new magic system, fav characters nerffed to nothing, you had to have ridiculous large unit numbers and it didn't have the same feeling that I had back in 4th and 5th ed.
I started with 4th too, though 3rd was still floating around too. The massive units required for later editions definitely got trying, but there were aspects I still really enjoyed
@@jordansorcery the good thing about 4th ed you still could get the classic old 80s minis still got the 4 old Chaos Greater Daemons still love those old greater deamons and the old Pink Horrors - one which strangely reminds me of Tony Blair - although was out way before he came to power lol
@@jordansorcery heh heh. “Massive units”.
Sorry.
It does seem like at some point GW began to reduce the points cost of everything to encourage people to buy more models. Certainly in 40k there was a points reduction between 2nd and 3rd editions, but for WFB I only played 5th edition so I'm not sure when they started on that.
Another great Warham-mentry. I started with the 1st with my older Brother. 2nd really got us hooked into the narrative world, from there WFRP 1st and WFB 3rd went hand in hand tying together our campaigns and character development. we played 3rd the most as all the armies were in one book (and not behind a paywall). However, saying that we continued to get the newer editions up till 6th for the new lore - but we mainly play 3rd. Before 7th we all had to take on real life. We all kept our toes in the Warhammer world through other media games. Like yourself, we were very much annoyed that the Old World became the The World that Was. Of course, we completely ignored that outcome for our WFRP games - we won! That also skewed my view for AoS, but over time it I have grown to like it - like a distant cousin. Keep up the 'Great Work'
That sounds like some mighty fine campaigning! And I totally agree, the Old World lives on as long as we choose to play in it!
Superb. Your delivery is spot on
Thanks so much!
I'm so here for this !!!! 🙌 and the fighting fantasy vid!!!
I’m very glad!
Great video, took me back to when I got in. Loved see how it evolved
Happy I could shed a little light on the fabulous tale!
I started with 5th starter box and loved every game since.
Looking to pick up a new force for old world.
That was a beast of a box, some terrific plastic in there!
@@jordansorcery agreed, I believe I managed to get 2 sets at the time.
Love your content. I watched all your stuff!. With you do the complete history till the present day (the old world) including AOS? As i would love that!!. Keep up the fantastic work!
Thanks for a great video! Memories of 3rd Edition, High Elves, and the distant squeak of Rat men.
Never enough rat men!
I just discovered your channel and I hope you make a full video about Mordheim, which is my personal favourite. Great video!
You’re in luck! My patrons have voted for a Mordheim video to be a priority!
Great video man, the nostalgia was firing on all cylinders. Would love to hear your thoughts on the 9th Age, the community driven rank and file fantasy project, I know the lore isn't there, but the game itself is amazing
Thanks for the tip! I have been looking at kings of war but will give this a try first
Well done! I started this gaming madness with Warhammer 40K 2nd Edition. Because of the sci-fi nature, I never got into Warhammer Fantasy Battle. But, I SO wish that I had. I am excited about The Old World being released and I WILL NOT miss out on it.
Great vid Jackson. Really looking forward to the Fighting Fantasy one, they're still a big part of my RPG life.
Thanks! Love the FF books, hope I can do them justice
"The game was lambasted for its frequent errors and typos" - having built some Heavy Intercessors last night and coming across two different mistakes in the instructions, I'm glad to see some traditions are still going strong! Seriously though, great stuff, looking forward to this series!
Oh boy, have I had some dodgy build instructions in my day - GW love missing out the odd number here and there!
Very good video! Thank you!
So glad I've stubbled on to your channel loving the content. 😊
Thanks for the sub, glad you’re enjoying it!
I'm a little too young for the early editions but my dad did pick me up the 5th edition box on sale for £10 because a new edition was coming out and it went well with my battle masters boardgame. 40k 3rd edition was the game for me but I did picked up fantasy 6th and 7th... I had a rough orc and goblin army verses empire and dwarf allies. Both excellent games and a nice fantasy break over sci-fi (alongside mordhiem).. My cousin picked up chaos warriors and I just had no counter for them halfway round 7th and I pretty much shelved the models and gave many of them to my younger brother.
Always rough when your regular opponent has an army that the rules favours!
Excellent history video. You missed out Storm of Chaos though, which might be the single most important event in WFB history, including its aftermath. Might be worth its own video, along with a focus on the 6th edition campaigns. I love 8th the most too!
Fair point! I wasn’t able to fit everything in this one, but hopefully there’ll be no such glaring omissions in the deep dives!
This brings back such great memories! Thank you!
My pleasure, I am glad you enjoyed it!
Excellent video mate! Looking forward to the future videos.
Thank you! Glad you’re enjoying them!
I fell in love with the lore, and to have it suddenly end hurt. Getting back into the game, and trying AoS, but have been approaching the lore with dread, hoping it’s not terrible.
AoS feels like quite a distant cousin in terms of lore, but I’ve still found some fun stuff in there
I came into WHF with the 3rd edition, and played my way over the years through 7th. My favorite edition will always be 6th edition, not just for the balanced army books, rules, and supplements, but because it was a time when I felt like a part of a wonderful hobby with passionate players, and a GW led by good people who truly supported their community. A tilt of the banner to Rick and Nigel!
It was a genuinely great era!
Absolutely fantastic.
Thank you
Looking forward to the edition documentaries!
Me too!
Great sinopsis! I have wached the deep dive videos and found myself remembering so many great moments with WFB, on a table tenis improvised battlefield. Wood elves vs dwarfs, two haphazardlyassembled forces on a barren land with no cover for the slow moving dwarfs, save a cheeky forest behing WE. Completely unbalanced, but fun nonetheless (I was playing the WE :D). Eagerly waiting for episode/chapter 5! Please, make a Blood Bowl series!
I vividly remember the release of fourth edition. All those covers bring back memories ! Not of the game itself, mind you, I was a kid and did not have this kind of money, but from the White Dwarfs I bought almost every month ^^
An all editon Review followed by a deep dive, uffff I cant wait for It.
And part one is already out!
Great video and I feel you speak for me with everything you said and felt! Subscribed mate
That’s nice of you to say! Glad you’re enjoying the channel!
Really great video, enjoying the content so far, keep up the good work!
Thank you, glad you’re liking it!
Hey Jordan, thank you for absolutely lovely and insightful content - and thanks for naming and crediting all the great artists (unlike a certain company, whom I shall not name).
My pleasure, I’m glad you liked it!
I’m sure there are some creative personnel who were involved that I’ve not been able to include or talk about as much as they deserve - such is the challenge of researching a topic this big - but I’m keen to recognise as many of the important people as I can!
I played Warhammer Fantasy Battle in its 3rd and 4th editions. I even (tried) reading Warhammer Siege, a supplement for which the term "crunchy" is a vast understatement. To be honest I prefer to experience the Old World through WFRP rather than battles, but this was a fascinating overview of the game's history and even though it may not be my favourite game it is the thing that allowed everything GW did after its release to happen and for that it should be feted.
I’ve often heard the Warhammer setting described as a better RPG world than a war gaming one, and I half agree! It’s absolutely a fantastic place to explore in role play, but I’d be sorry not to field a few armies on its battlefields too!
I feel like the sea elves kind of ended up as part of the high elves
I was so glad when someone suggested i get a copy of the small rule book from ebay after months of carrying it around with me to game.
I think you’re probably right. Though I like to think they informed the eventual creation of the Idoneth for AoS.
I remember the staff at my local store would always joke that fishmen were the next army - little did I know there once were fishmen in Warhammer. Or that there would be again!
A very interesting video, nice work. I never played WF directly (I was and am on the scifi side with 40k), but my brother did, so I had always a grasp of what was happening. The lore was and still is beautiful, though of course is pretty much stolen here and there from real life and other fiction works, as you say. I enjoyed reading the various Army Books I could put my hands on (the Empire was my favourite one) and thought that this game had so much potential, so I was surprised when it all came to an end. My brother felt like he had been screwed by GW, not only because the replacement was something not in his veins (reading about it, I felt it wasn't in mine neither), but also because his beloved army had basically disappeared. This moment was also when I opened my eyes to GW commercial practices and started being more careful on my purchases and support of their work, to the point where I now support other games (my brother joined me and definitely abandoned GW) and, if/when buying their minis, only buy them in the 2nd hand market.
I'm not entirely sure that GW move of getting the Old World back is a good one. On one hand, it may satisfy those players that want an "official" Old World and hope to create once again a thriving official community, but on the other one it sounds just a commercial move to get back players who drifted from GW to alternative Old Worlds (such as 9th Edition). Not to mention that, if I where a WF player, I wouldn't trust too much a company that basically swept the rug under my feet and now says it wants to give it back to me.
Just my 2 cents.
I’ll definitely be interested to see how this all plays out. The decision to end the Warhammer world was, of course, a commercial one, and whilst it appears to have been a financial success I do wonder about the long term artistic impact. So I am excited to see how the Old World revival plays out!
Awesome review of some great history!
Thank you!
I still have my box set of the first edition slightly scuffed but still in good condition and it sits proudly on my shelf
how appropriate that skaven have always been my favourite race/faction in warhammer, having been introduced to the world in spring '86 (just like me! there's something strangely pleasing about the knowledge that i've been kicking around for, apparently, approximately (± a month or two) the same length of time as my favourite fantasy race)
I was a 6th edition Ogres player in my teens, I had so much fun with that army. Hopefully The Old World release will allow me to get my Ogre lads on the field again so they consume for the Maw!
I do love a good ogre! I’m looking forward to getting some old school ogre lads for my new 5th edition Empire army!
very fun breakdown ty
My pleasure, glad you liked it!
May the algorithm be with you
I started my time in the hobby in 6th edition playing High Elves. Im still going strong with 40k and AoS and Im so looking forward to the Old World :)
Loved the old era High Elves, some fantastic minis in that range
Great video, but I think you should've included what army books came out every edition!
I’ll definitely be getting into these in the longer making of Warhammer videos!
In the last part of this video you touched on the magic of tabletop gaming in general. My math skills would be appalling if it wasn't for rpgs and war games. I loved this video, and as my experience with Warhammer lies primarily in the Fantasy setting, albeit more in the rpg than the war game, I too mourned its passing.
It’s strange to think, but I really do owe so much of ‘how I think’ to those early years playing these games. So important in so many unobvious ways!
Excellent video.
Thanks!
Thanks for the historical perspective! Very enlightening. I have always wondered about all the Warhammer products GW issued and their timelines. 2nd and 3rd editions were it for me, along with the first Battle Magic box. Once I figured out that there was no limit on the number of editions GW would release, and no end to the bilking of the players; that is, you don't just buy more miniatures, but constantly are forced into buying more and more rules sets and supplements in order to play the game at convention tournaments and in the stores, I wised up and moved on. The miniatures are also too cartoonish for my taste, but that's a personal preference issue. More to the point, there are so many better/less complicated rules sets for all occasions out there that are not constantly morphing; home rules amongst them. After watching a few 6th edition battles on RUclips, I've concluded that they do look like fun, with good game mechanics. Still, there are too many ridiculous add-ons with the banners, command, magic items, scrolls et. al.
I too got annoyed with all the updated rules and started to feel used.
I took a look back in time and decided to settle on 3rd edition. I love 4th/5th edition equally, but I feel 3rd edition has a little more flexibility when making an army. I've now replaced my Bretonnians and Empire miniatures with historical miniatures and am working on a Dark Elf Army made of 3rd-4th edition miniatures.
Really enjoyed this. 4th edition was the one I remember most, along with all its army books. I remember 5th edition releasing (I may have even bought it?) but by that point I was moving away from GW as I got older. I didn’t particularly like the Bretonnians and Lizardmen included in the set. I enjoyed learning about everything after 6th edition’s release as it’s all new to me. Thanks!
Glad I could help share some lost history! At the time I wasn’t too keen on the Lizardmen or Bretonnians either, though I would eventually field a Lizardmen army by 8th edition!
I got into WFB at the end if the 3rd edition era, I bought the rulebook and spent months poring over it, then by the time i was ready to start playing they released 4th edition 😂 I loved the relative simplicity (and affordability) of the models back then.
Warhammer fantasy has for me, ever since I got into tabletop wargaming back in 1998, felt like a game that "almost" got it right, but every edition had one major or two issues that prevented it from being my go-to game (though I still played it a lot, I have two full 3000 points+ armies, and love the lore).
5th edition was my first edition, and the Herohammer part was indeed a bit of an issue. My gaming group quickly realized that tricked out heroes was the way to go, and so it became a bit of an arms race in that department, and whoever had the better heroes tended to win.
6th edition was a very solid edition, though it still had some issues, and in retrospect I was one of the "problem players", as I built a Southlands lizardmen army, in other words a skink-based army that was 80% skirmishers. Not very fun to play against, and toning it down was the right move with 7th. Though apart from things like all skirmish armies and a few other gimmicky lists I feel like 6th edition was the closest the game came to being outstanding.
7th edition had really good core rules, but the balance... Lots of people in my group left because they found it frustrating to play against certain armies, and our poor orc players were really not having a good time (orc units suffered from animosity 1/3 of the time in 7th, as opposed to the regular 1/6 of the time in older edition).
8th edition was really fun... until people figured it out, and then it just became a bit of a slog, with big blocks of infantry that just never ran away and magic dominating the battlefield. Also, the rules felt really bloated. Some good ideas here, but I do suspect that 8th edition was rushed out the door a bit too early as the balance of 7th edition was becoming a real issue for GW.
Some editions definitely felt more at the mercy of the opponents list, but I think I was lucky in having plenty of regular opponents with fun to play against armies. I do get what you mean about ‘almost’ nailing it each time though - there were always a few awkward things in each edition!
Cheers dude.
Hiya, really enjoy your videos. I had 2nd edition and 5th edition but never managed to play much. What armies do you have? I have my old skaven and high elves ready for the Old World
I’m glad you’re enjoying them, Jack! I’ve currently got Skaven and Tzeentch for Warhammer and Tau for 40k, but I made the recent decision to get stuck into a new Empire army in time for the Old World!
I did love the warhammer wold, then in one of the latter editions it was decided that everyone and reverting needed to be All Grim All The Time and all the awesome character and atmosphere became monotone.
I get what you mean, though I’ve always sort of merged the bits I liked most from every version in my head!
I love Mordheim for its dark, despairing tone which makes sense because the city was destroyed in a cataclysm and everyone there is there as human (or elves, or possessed, or...) carrion. Though the rules and balance of sixth are great the increase in miniature scale, perma-dark tone and vilifying of the "good" races (Empire is psychotically xenophobic, high elves are haughty, in-fighting egotists, wood elf allies are almost as willing to murder the elves as anything else, Bretonnian knights are no longer chivalrous but petty and entitled) removed the ability to root for anyone and minimized the differences between groups.
Storm of chaos was where I realized I was out. The good forces crushed evil through the campaign so the creatively bankrupt GW creatives overturned the results, ignored the opportunity to take Warhammer in a new direction - imagine seventh edition focusing on a renaissance for the good races - they settled into the same rut they'd been in for decades and alienated a good number of the Storm participants, particularly from the good races.
Ah well, I still play the game with fifth ed and have a blast.
This series is exceptional
I was there at the beginning in the UK. Warlock of firetop mountain.... I remember getting it for a birthday, or xmas.... Those books were absolutely amazing. I also got Warhammers 1st edition. And my best friend bought the Warhammer Fantasy Role playing game system. That was instantly better than DnD and ADnD .. man the memories all this gives me...
I've still got the books for 2nd, no idea where the box went... A lot of people at my LGS play 6th, in fact there was a tournament three weeks ago.
👏👏👏👏👏
Fantastic video!
Someone _should_ do a 40K documentary. Only... who? 🤔😉
Thanks Nis! I think if we give it some thought we might be able to crack it!
absolutely fascinating
I still tell myself I will one day finish painting my wharhammer IV box set
Just a few hundred more goblins to go?
I am a little bit late to this one, but I’m glad I paid attention to it more than just background whilst painting. Like you, WFB from about 4th onwards was a MASSIVE part of my life up till seventh. I hit a rather terrible patch in my life and sadly missed out on eighth, and the end times and again, like yourself Jordan I was Not enamoured by AoS when I did come back to hobby 5 years ago. That all said, I stuck with it, and now have yet another dwarfy set of forces (both kharadron and fyreslayers.) and the starting sod others too, I have warmed up to it. I do like the lore and background. But mostly since Gotrek came back. I feel Gotrek repress is older guys and gals far more than we give credit for. Older, set in ways, and stubborn. Yet here we are, loyal till the end and even beyond. Making new oaths. New allies and (Fr)enemies. Or perhaps I’m just looking too deeply into my fave character.
Another fab video Jordan. Well worth punting Patreon for. I await the next dives eagerly.
The game has really been a life changer for me, and the end times were a real shame in my opinion. I’m glad I did manage to come round on AoS though as it’s got some really good stuff to offer. Still miss that old world though!
@@jordansorcery absolutely. Roll on Old World. I still have a lot of my seventh Ed dwarves including the pit pony. And a gyrocopter or two…
Will the edition summaries cover all of the games listed here, including WHAB and Warmaster?
They’ll get a mention, but the likes of Warmaster, Ancient Battles, and Mordheim deserve deep dives of their own I think.
I have already released a retrospective series on Warhammer Quest if that’s of interest -
ruclips.net/video/cSsgOtXldOI/видео.html
The 90s were the time I enjoyed Fantasy the most, 5th and 6th ed and Mordheim, what a time.
After it was all 40k for me till the Total war games.
Played 3rd, 4th and 5th, and 3rd Edition is by far still the best (obviously cannot compare to those I haven't read or played of course). 3rd Edition bordered on perfection (sans the many niggling details, but tish to those!)
First! Really looking forward to watching this. We comment my thoughts after/ I came in at 5th, left when 6th came in and now getting back into it. Curious to see what the new one will be
Excellent video, as always
Thank you!
Another very well-made and also very educational and useful video! I'm amazed that Mordheim was only released in 1999. I was so sure I had heard of it before... :D
Perhaps it’s a game so loved that it’s legend stretches forward and backwards in time?
@@jordansorcery Possibly. :D I started playing it in 2001, and I always had the impression that it's been around for quite some time (certainly longer than 2 years). Maybe I was confusing it with Necromunda? Who knows. :D
Brilliant job bud
Thank you!
A friend and I used 1st edition to create our own RPG as our alternative to D&D. Still have those three slim volumes.
Looking forward to this series 👍
Awesome video. On the topic of AoS, how do you personally feel about Stormcast Eternals?
I don’t mind them too much - there’s some very cool designs and bits of lore, even if they are a clear attempt to transpose Space Marines in to a Fantasy setting. Like marines though, they don’t really excite me enough, and I can’t imagine collecting/playing them myself
LOVED this!!!
Great video, we played 1st and 2nd edition. We did get the third edition, but were not fans of the rigid base to base, wheeling, old style wargaming amnd drifted off the 40K as you could still skirmish better. What we did like about third edition was the war machines, who doesn't like a snotling pump wagon
Can’t beat the snotlings! Things did get further and further into complex wheeling and ‘close the door’ charges and stuff, it definitely made 40k’s somewhat simpler coherency rules seem at appealing at times!