How can any libertarian support Trump's position that the president can do whatever he wants and be immune from prosecution even when he"s no longer president?
Exactly... the things he most railed against was censorship of porn and other easy issues to pick apart. Especially since back then people didn't furiously attack and cancel. I loved Bullshit, even though i was way too young to be watching it lol.
I was a libertarian for 25 minutes when I was 19. The comment section here makes me feel glad that I grew up. Especially since I have always been more than 5302% less optimistic than sweet sweet summer child Penn
I came out thinking the government needs the power it had in the 1950s-60s and that the this fake "liberty" chaos actor movement by anarchists needs to be destroyed by FBI and ATF bullets if necessary.
He pretty much tells on himself at 32:11 by saying he doesn't believe in evil. It's that level of naivety and the hubris of post modernism that has gotten us stuck in this satanic self-mutalating sludge.
Absolutely agree. 2020 and CVD has shook my faith in the American People right down to its foundations!! The tyranny I witnessed with restrictions and trampling of our constitution rights and to have the American People roll over and take it shocked me. I’ll never look at this country and it’s people the same as long as I live.
One's views on liberty should not change just because one is more cognizant of their impending end. That is what we see here with Penn. He is more concerned about his life than his liberty. Such a shame. Penn was a great mouthpiece for liberty in the past. #RIPLiberty
Couldn't said it better. If anything, this panic put people to the test. When things get really difficult, it is when people truly show who they are. I saw so many people who claimed to be libertarian going to be pro-lockdowns and pro-mandates so quickly it was hilarious, and also I saw many people who were supposedly leftists who actually were anti-lockdowns and anti-mandates and showed that in the places where it matters the most, they were actually way more libertarian than self claimed libertarians.
Maybe he should understand that most Libertarianism is meant for less government and more personal responsibility. But that's too much to ask these days.
Indeed, the whole "What do we do about the immunocompromised" part really triggered me a lot, because not only that has existed way before covid and he never seemed to give a fuck before covid, but sadly it is a problem of personal responsibility. You are responsable for your own health. If you are immunocompromised you change your behavior to lower your risk, you don't expect all of society to change their behavior for your sole benefit.
I've listened to and watched Penn for almost 40 years. I've disagreed with him, but he's always made sense. For the first time ever, he is making absolutely no sense.
I'm not saying I agree with everything Penn said, but I think being anti-mandate and pro-vaccine is an important distinction and makes a lot of sense. Why are people arguing against individuals choosing to be vaccinated?
@@StrawHat83 did penn at any point say he was anti-mandate? or did you mean penn is anti-mandate except for covid because everyone should just agree with the mandates anyway? from what i can tell most people are upset about being forced to take an untested emergency use vaccine (that doesnt meet the actual definition of vaccine so they changed its definition) against their will and then entirely unable to hold the creators accountable if something goes wrong. violating every sense of my body my choice, informed consent, and the nuremberg code.
@@StrawHat83 I don't know. I don't know anyone who would fit that description. But, that's not what I'm talking about. From what I heard, basically Penn is no longer a libertarian because he doesn't like Trump. I can respect someone who changes their principles because of some specific event. But, Penn's description of his "conversion" basically distills down to "I don't like Trump" and "I'm afraid of Covid". His reasoning, such as it is, is simply nonsensical.
@@brushylake4606 _"But, Penn's description of his "conversion" basically distills down to "I don't like Trump" and "I'm afraid of Covid"_ Penn should have just taken the vaccination Trump has been strong advocate from the start (whole operation warp speed in spring 2020) and thus be safe from Covid.
Early in the interview he refers to institutional power as, "the grown ups." The last thing the government has behaved like is the, "grown ups." COVID did a number on the guy. If he trusts institutional power and sees them as parental figures, he was never a libertarian. As an atheist his brush with death probably maddened him slightly, and he refers to covid times (while living in Hollywood, btw) as, "a blur." I have health problems that have threatened my life, I never then lost my ability to think rationally. Another casualty of Hollywood culture.
@Down with Corporate Amerika What you are complaining about was caused by a chain of government abuse. "In 1910, the physician oligopoly was started during the Republican administration of William Taft after the American Medical Association lobbied the states to strengthen the regulation of medical licensure and allow their state AMA offices to oversee the closure or merger of nearly half of medical schools and also the reduction of class sizes. The states have been subsidizing the education of the number of doctors recommended by the AMA. In 1925, prescription drug monopolies begun after the federal government led by Republican President Calvin Coolidge started allowing the patenting of drugs. (Drug monopolies have also been promoted by government research and development subsidies targeted to favored pharmaceutical companies.) In 1945, buyer monopolization begun after the McCarran-Ferguson Act led by the Roosevelt Administration exempted the business of medical insurance from most federal regulation, including antitrust laws. (States have also more recently contributed to the monopolization by requiring health care plans to meet standards for coverage.) In 1946, institutional provider monopolization begun after favored hospitals received federal subsidies (matching grants and loans) provided under the Hospital Survey and Construction Act passed during the Truman Administration. (States have also been exempting non-profit hospitals from antitrust laws.) In 1951, employers started to become the dominant third-party insurance buyer during the Truman Administration after the Internal Revenue Service declared group premiums tax-deductible. In 1965, nationalization was started with a government buyer monopoly after the Johnson Administration led passage of Medicare and Medicaid which provided health insurance for the elderly and poor, respectively. In 1972, institutional provider monopolization was strengthened after the Nixon Administration started restricting the supply of hospitals by requiring federal certificate-of-need for the construction of medical facilities. In 1974, buyer monopolization was strengthened during the Nixon Administration after the Employee Retirement Income Security Act exempted employee health benefit plans offered by large employers (e.g., HMOs) from state regulations and lawsuits (e.g., brought by people denied coverage). In 1984, prescription drug monopolies were strengthened during the Reagan Administration after the Drug Price Competition and Patent Term Restoration Act permitted the extension of patents beyond 20 years. (The government has also allowed pharmaceuticals companies to bribe physicians to prescribe more expensive drugs.) In 2003, prescription drug monopolies were strengthened during the Bush Administration after the Medicare Prescription Drug, Improvement, and Modernization Act provided subsidies to the elderly for drugs. In 2014, nationalization will be strengthened after the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act of 2010 (“Obamacare”) provided mandates, subsidies and insurance exchanges, and the expansion of Medicaid."
Reminds me of the Enron the smartest guys in the room title. He once railed at religion, but he now just believes in a different set of priests. The type that worships appearances, look the part, sound the part, Sorkin's West Wing/NPR credibility voice, but even that is breaking down. He's a magician who can't tell if the most powerful trick is still working.
@Down with Corporate Amerika Trusting big pharma to manage the centralization and planning of medical services reallocated by force through the very bureaucracy you mislabel as a for profit system is the entire problem of going by what's taught by government schools and universities, cemented further by the corporate press. Post lockdown era proves where centralized medical planning leads to, which is a medical caste system based solely around political control. You scapegoat greed onto the voluntary sector, which routinely suffers from the destructive hand of unqualified organizers in the political sector. They care for control far more than profit, and profit is the only means of which practically the nonpolitical person can generate wealth and accrue resources for himself. The rampant destruction of socialized planning is so obvious at this point post 2020 that a person must be a fool to trust blindly in the State. Or some must merely be just disingenuous in their question begging, and would only genuinely wish the destruction of voluntary and peaceful people by vilifying their creating better lives for themselves.
Damn. Lost alot of respect for Penn. And hes been a major influence on me. Im sure he will never read this, but i wish someone would remind Penn that just because some people use freedom in a way you dont agree with, doesnt mean their freedom should be taken away, or that they are doing it wrong.
There’s a distinction between being a libertarian and being an anarchist. Maximizing liberty requires constraints on those who would use their liberties to trample on the liberties of others. “If you don’t like the way I drive stay off the sidewalk” is not inherently Libertarian.
@@Justanotherconsumer Yes but the analogy was used by Penn to justify the fact that not wearing a mask was risking people around you and thus - I suppose - : masks should be mandatory. Which is complete BS....
It's not about just masks being mandatory. When you drive on a road, you agree to show your competence by having a license, and your responsibility by having a car that is safe for the road and by having insurance or self insuring by a bond. IMO as a long time libertarian, those conditions are not unreasonable, and neither is the requirement you are going to mask up if you are in my face. We CAN have a reasonable argument about under what conditions all of these are necessary.
@@billmankin6204 Requiring masks to participate in society is legally a restriction on freedom of movement. House arrest technically. And that is not even getting into the logic or science at all, just legally it is depriving you of due process as guaranteed by the Bill of Rights and 14th Amendment. Driving a car is not protected as it is a privilege (under property ownership laws) and not a right.
Newsom and all other DemonRats are staunch communists. And same is the case with their financiers Michael Bloomberg and George Soros, although they earn all of their money from capitalist institutions such as stock markets. Gun-grabbers like Everytown for gun safety and Moms demand Action are all funded by Bloomberg and Soros despite them earning huge money from capitalist institutions like stock markets. There were no stock markets in erstwhile Soviet Russia when it was communist. Would it have been possible for Bloomberg and Soros to become billionaire at there?
So did Donald Chump.....Donald Chump supported Jimmy Carter, Walter Mondale, Ted Kennedy, Chuck Schumer, Charles Rangel, Nancy Pelosi, Jerry Brown, David Dinkins, Harry Reid, Joe Biden, John Kerry, Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, Kristen Gillibrand, Anthony Wiener, Gavin Newsom, Kamala Harris, and many more leftists.
@Joseph There was no booming economy under RINO Trump, RINO Trump escalated Bush and Obama wars, RINO Trump outspent Obama by double in half the time, and did more socialism, more gun control, more debt, bigger deficits, more nanny state policies, etc. than Obama, and he distracted you with his childish twitter crybaby antics. No wonder lifelong NY liberal degenerate democrat conman Trump loves the poorly educated. Look at you.
When it was his values being shut down he wanted less government when it’s the values he opposed now that the government is pushing his values he has left the movement.
"When I am weaker than you, I ask you for freedom because that is according to your principles; when I am stronger than you, I take away your freedom because that is according to my principles. - Harq al-Ada, Children of Dune, misattributed to Louis Veuillot
We're all just on sides of a tug-of-rope, pulling the center in our direction. If the center ever moves past your ideal point, you'll "switch sides" too. Right now, the ancaps are my allies. If the day came where we got a classically liberal government and it started veering ancap, I'd be pulling against them
The dude literally said he'd rather have a socialist completely fuck up than to have a guy like Trump save lives from pulling troops out of a war, provided the guy was thoughtful in his decision to fuck things up. Like what? And of course, Nick just patronized him the whole time, and should've pushed back on that more.
It's mind boggling just how much these guys agree with, that they can list off that Trump did as President and still insist that he was a horrible, because he said mean things.
This people are fraud, they know the moment they defend Trump they are going after him, suddenly he is not a liberterian anymore lol everyone is scare of government what they did to Trump it was a broad message to everyone look what we can do to the actual president, remember this people are fraud.
Just because he did a few good things doesn't mean he was a good president, especially from a libertairan persepective. He kicked off his campaign by announcing his desire to limit immigration by building a wasteful wall and he was popular because he supported economic protectionism, neither is libertarian.
I'm questioning whether Penn ever was a libertarian. It's easy to have libertarian opinions when things are fine but it requires true convictions to stick to libertarian principles when you're in a difficult nationwide/worldwide phenomenon like a pandemic or have a president who you personally despise.
@George Washburn He was never a true libertarian, he supported Walmart on his Penn and Teller BS show. Walmart is the most anti libertarian store out there. They lobby the government to force their competitors to have higher prices so everyone would shop at Walmart.
You're both wrong. I cannot think of a single organisation, voluntary or itherwise, that is quite so expert at picking the exact wrong things to do fron a rational perspective. So you're wrong in a way that kinda makes you still right 😉
"Anarchy is no guarantee that some people won't kill,injure, kidnap, defraud, or steal from others. Government is a guarantee that some will. " Gustave de Molinari
"Emotional reaction". He's being honest and frank there. There's no place in entertainment circles unless you embrace the progressive left positions and policies. The emotional reaction being Fear. Fear as a Libertarian he would be labeled Far Right. So he folded like a house of cards on his principles.
Ah you nailed it. It is hard to make a man disagree with that with which his money depends on. This is so true and I didn't really think about it about it until just now. Of course Gillette is going to become a brain dead liberal otherwise he would be kicked out of the club.
It does seem that way. I’m disappointed. I’ve always thought quite highly of him. I frequently disagree with him but I thought he was an honest man. I’m a little disappointed in Nick Gillespie too.
He never "folded". He was delusional and doctrinaire back then too. Most Humanist-adjacent (Humanism the religion) are just as deluded as any other religion. They believe in the Spockish "live long and prosper".
Exactly. All the Gnu-atheists were fakers and shysters. They had FAITH in "the science" because it made them look good, flattering their ego, no different than Bill Gates narcissism, and going after "gotcha" moments, and low-hanging branches. The Gnu-atheists killed the atheist movement, the same way liberal feminists ruined historical feminism.
I don't get the hate from Libertarians he is currently getting. He has never said government should step in and control people (via. taxes or. regulations) he just takes the "personal responsibility" very seriously. He supports, open borders, free trade, low taxes, small police force, small military, but that means he supports personal responsibility.
You do know that his daughter decided she was a trans, so then he flipped on everything, right? Now he can't even answer a simple question without an emotional sales pitch, first... if he ever even actually answers the question at all.
So letting people have control over their own identity is contrary to Libertarian principles? Honestly it sounds like a lot of “libertarians” are just conservatives that don’t want to be called conservatives.
You COULD care less, so you do care some for Trump? I'd figure someone would care so little that they could not care less about Trump if they lost respect for Penn over this.
@@Meton2526 His only hatred for Trump is because of his feelings. That's woke BS. Most people in the country especially minorities (which Penn said Trump is a racist) did better under Trump. I'd like to know what policies Penn didn't like. I can't stand Obama, but I liked when he gave all those pardons. I liked that policy. I hated his Healthcare policy. Just want a policy, not feelings.
@@kristinaolson77 WHOOOOOSH I'm making fun of the fact that you said "I could care less" which is a common mistake of not understanding what "I could NOT care less" means.
I have self-quarantined three times. Never have gotten a positive COVID test result, but I had some mild symptoms and I work with clients all over the area. I have done everything I could, to avoid putting anyone at risk, at my expense. Do I wear a mask? No, I don't, at least most of the time. Neither empirical studies nor theory, suggest that they are at all effective, with the possible exception of properly worn and frequently disposed-of N95 masks which might have a minimal effect. If I really need to wear a mask, say in a medical office, I wear a rated mask that might possibly be slightly effective. I refuse to wear a costume mask, which includes the surgical masks that they give out -- you breathe right around them, in use. This isn't because I'm a libertarian. It's because I'm skeptical, I do my best to be scientifically informed, and I strive to be authentic. I want freedom for individuals, my values include responsibility, and I also want to see the evidence. That USED to describe Penn.
@@UserNameAnonymous block, not filter. COVID is airborne and spreads from the upper respiratory tract. A properly fitted filter mask like an N95 blocks saliva drops AND filters exhaled air. And to to the best of my knowledge, only this type of mask has been shown to slow the spread of COVID specifically (and then only by about 20% but it's something, anyway).
Pretty much this entire video made me sad. I used to have such respect for Penn Jillette. As a libertarian atheist myself, he was someone who embodied a lot of my own beliefs, or so I thought. How sad to see him from a libertarian to an authoritarian!?!
@@jthemagicrobot3960 MIstakenly thinking "ancap" is "ultra-libertarian" or "ultra-moral" is idiotic and delusional, in the extreme. Literally the only thing conferred on someone who is "ancap" is "an inability to implement their stated philosophy." The fact that I'm wrong in the case that AGI institutes ancapism only underscores the fact that humans won't buy into ancapism on their own. As such, it's encouraging motion away from the one philosophy that might save humanity, as a whole.
@@snex000 You are incorrect. "Anarchists" are edge-lords who don't care to implement their principles at the human level. Indeed, by pretending to take principles seriously, they show that they take them less seriously, since they then become non-implementable. "Anarchists" are the easiest people for Bill Redpath (almost certainly the LP's IC "intelligence community" saboteur) to manipulate into neutralizing themselves. (If you know anything about how the IC neutralized AIM, you have a blueprint for how they've neutralized the USA Libertarian Party.) "If your philosophy is good and true, then you owe it to your philosophy to learn how to win." -Morton Blackwell Spooner (not an anarchist, BTW) realized that rhetoric that couldn't be implemented was useless. Thoreau (also not an anarchist) realized the same. The prior is why both people translated their ideas into ideas that were strengthened by juries and the common law, and why both men organized juries to oppose unjust laws. (Which was, by the way, perfectly compatible with the evolved British common law. ...The evolved British common law, BTW, that every single "anarchist" wants upheld when they enter a corrupted court of today.) Ah well, who am I kidding. Impotent edge-lords don't listen. ...And half of them are feds trying to derail any serious movement, and/or entrap gullible idiots. There's no strategic endgame for "anarchism." This is why feds encourage it so much. ...Sadly, the government schools have accomplished their mission...very few people know jack shit about their rights under the common law, nor how it's supposed to work.
@@Raiver-of-Eridu Vaccinated people can still spread the virus especially if he did not get ALL the multiple boosters. As to it not being 2020, doesn't the flu kill people and won't masks stop it? Now, the flu probably kills less than COVID but it is still risking lives.
As soon as he starts talking about how wonderful wearing a mask is I know he has lost any ability to reason. The virus is 17 times smaller than the weave of a mask and how many times were we told they don't work? Yet he carries on with the line. No respect.
I'm against mask mandate. But you really got how these masks work wrong. Imagine you're a bird trying to fly through a dense forest as fast as you could. The gap between the trees are several times bigger than you are. But if you just fly straight through, you're most definitely going to hit a tree and not make it out of the other side. That's basically how a PROPERLY FITTED mask works (anything else are just costume pieces). And depend on the type, the mask could also be statically charged and actively attracts particles as air moves through.
Stop #Lying to the People and Try talking to a REAL DOCTOR - Masks have been PROVEN to work if you wear them properly .. You don't understand the SCIENCE of WHY they work ..
You are aware that you have mucus and saliva and that is what you expel when you breath, cough, or sneeze. The virus is contained in those droplets which is what the mask is capturing. I shake my head when people like you spout this complete lack of understanding. Masks, when properly used, prevent the spread of disease. I am against the mandates just to be clear, this should be left up to the individual to choose. But at the same time, business owners should have the choice to not let you in their store if you are not wearing one. At 7-Eleven it says "no shirt, no shoes, no service". Does that mean 7-Eleven is forcing you to wear a shirt? No. It just means if you choose not to wear one they will not serve you.
Never was, was always a Libertine. I was told to shut up by another libertarian once many years ago for saying that back when BS was a popular show. Dunno, but to me, he has always been a very obvious libertine.
I’m shocked by how much these dudes believe media spin rather than the words out of Trump’s mouth. These guys should know how misquotes and edits work.
When Trump went on national television and advocated for red flag laws and bigger stimulus checks the media wouldn't even bring it up - they just kept talking about Russia
@@paulgeorge315 i dont watch the reasontv guy a lot, but was shocked when he implied trump said all mexican immigrants were grapists. thought he would have a more reasonable take on that like... possibly going back to the direct quote instead of media shaded quotes
I’ll hold Gillette to the higher standard here, given that he at one point at least positioned himself as some form of skeptic. (Whereas Gillespie is merely the self-described libertarian). In either case though they really oughta know better than to indulge their biases so plainly. They go with the interpretation which suits their argument and don’t think twice about it.
@@paulgeorge315 no the instance everyone clings to claiming Trump called them rapists being false is not due to possessive pronouns but rather it is the subject - he clearly was talking about ms-13, not Mexicans. Also, and how these guys never even seem to be aware of this which blows my mind, is how do they think Trump has brought so many Hispanics over to his side, to unprecedented levels which is nearing 50%?
Penn Jillete supported Biden in the 2020 election, and said he didn't care about taxes or bad regulations as long as Biden loves the Trump voters. And Reason magazine says Jillete is still an libertarian. Geez ,good thing I don't waste my time on voting anymore for anyone, it's just virtue signaling.
His argument that a guy with a gun not being allowed to kill people is reduction in freedom is wrong, its an increase in freedom taking him out because others would be free by taking him out. I wish he was caught up on that terrible argument.
@Down with Corporate Amerika Guaranteed access to the Medical Industrial Complex increases the number of days worked by workers and profits corporations.
Being pro-vax but anti-mandate is perfectly consistent with libertarianism. I do wonder why he uses the one group that asked him to speak at a rally as a proxy for all libertarians. He has no way of knowing how representative that group was/is.
That the corporate press and its sympathizers present a strictly pro or anti view on vaccinations is propaganda through lying by omission. That is not how normal people think nor view things in life across the board. Every opportunity of choice that presents itself to an individual at any given moment is a tradeoff. The fact that record inflation and mandatory lockdowns occurred where at the same time the subsidized manufacturing of State funded vaccines also occurred was deliberate coercion with a first event giving credence to the second. Without the first event there is no scenario where the second follows, and coercion would not be viewed as preferable because it could have no reason to be presented in such a way. That overarching narrative and bending towards it should answer in effect as to how, rather than why, he uses one group as proxy. It's framing, not inquiring.
I will save y’all some time. It’s a two hour softball interview where a group of guys who, lean more towards Democrats than anarchists, take turns kneeling and eating the bs that each other defecates.
His example of the guy running through town shooting people, the answer actually was more freedom, freedom for everyone he’s shooting at to be allowed to carry and shoot back.
Yeah there's nobody running through town shooting people if the other people armed. I mean even though everyone hates cops, you never see a mass shooting at a police station xD.
Noooo ! For those who pay attention, pretty much from when he had the health scare, and became a vegan, he changed. And went to the left more and more.
Sounds like a scared old man. He's trying to assuage those feelings by trying to control others. If he can just do that, he can feel safe. Typical, and sad.
After listening to this I think Penn is like the smartest guy who still fully believes what is said on establishment media. { New York Times; CNN; MSNBC }
i dont really know anything about this boomer other than he did like magic tricks with that other guy, is he actually really smart? and if he still believes everything the establishment media is telling him after all the lies have been uncovered and incestuous relationship between media and politicians, was he ever?
I don't know why, but that reminds of the line from Dr. Manhattan, "The world's smartest man poses no more threat to me than does its smartest termite." The smartest guy who still watches CNN isn't much smarter than the smartest termite who still watches CNN lol.
Ironically my wife was watching an old episode of a show he showed up on yesterday and I told her, "yeah, kind of sucks that he's no longer a libertarian anymore." Watching the episode with Doc Dixon outfoxing both Penn & Teller, and Doc using a libertarian joke that went right over Penns head....
@@barrydworak He always was! His shtick about being a contrarian was ALWAYS superficial and as an atheist libertarian activist he was never profound, always going after low hanging fruit. As a lifelong atheist I always disliked him.
His mask argument is kinda funny, one time I saw his show in Vegas and he did this whole thing on the TSA. Couldn’t you use all the safety arguments for mask for the TSA?
also, we are aware the common surgical masks and cloth are not really that effective for covid, right? and frequent touching of mask and face to adjust the mask is bad. n95 masks are great sure, but we dont have n95 mask mandates and probably dont even have the supply of them if we wanted to. and even if we could force 24/7 safe and effective n95 mask wearing its fine for people that want to do that, but there are many tradeoffs including social development of our most important demographic (children), use of unspoken language and microexpressions on the face, as well as the fact that masks were outlawed for good reason because it makes it harder to identify the person, as well as improper handling of masks, as well as the waste of masks which are made out of a plastic fabric, and using the mask as a visual cue to "othering" people there are so many negatives that are not even considered, let alone the conflict with mandates and actual libertarianism
Well, no. The TSA doesn't even reach the 12-20% effectiveness that masks had for the early COVID variants. If your argument is that something needs to be 100% effective to be justified, then you're the one who's kinda funny
@@ErdTirdMans 12 to 20%? Are you joking? Show the actual factual evidence of this or get out here with that non sense, covid is a tiny virus, doesn't matter the variant, they're all small, they can EASLY slip through the fabric of masks, masks are 99.5% infective. These types of masks are to prevent airborne bacterial, fungal and allergens such as pollen from entering your lungs, not viruses!
there's an awesome Nolan chart meme that shows a yammerhead kid saying "I used to be a libertarian, then I became a post-modernist neo-marxist furry, then I became a republican, then I joined the SDS and became a social Democrat..." He's asked how old he is, and he says "14" ...and when you realize that many human brains are just plain idiotic and self-contradictory in exactly that way, a lot of the picture comes into focus
He's always been that way. I was quite involved in the atheist community in the 70s, 80s, 90s, 00s, and quit the atheist community because of the dominance of his kind of superficial "gotcha" atheism which was not improvement of society related, but self-aggrandising. A magician is always just a trickster.
This is an amazing interview for all the wrong reasons. We have a group of people who seemingly think they got it together, repeating objectively verifiable lies. (Trump/Mexicans) Penn has been an icon of reason and scrutiny for decades, yet is incapable of pursuing actual truth. This is not a defense of Trump, he has many flaws, but there is an antireality that "intellectuals" believe in that is shocking. Even Penn's views on libertarianism is kinda wack. This is wild and completely reveals that these (Penn was a hero of mine) people are not nearly as intelligent, or has it together, as we have been led to believe. I will give them credit for recognizing that Trump was less of a warmonger than previous admins. Has it always been this way and we just never noticed? Think about how Penn ends this off - He would rather have a "sane" person making bad policy decisions, for example killing innocent people in the middle east, than a "lunatic" making good policy decision, not killing people innocent people in the middle east. There is never been a more antilogic position than that. The voice of reason is now mute.
" He would rather have a "sane" person making bad policy decisions, for example killing innocent people in the middle east, than a "lunatic" making good policy decision" That's actually the definition of Trump Derangement Syndrome. In 2020 many knew Biden was a disaster in the making but openly said they'd rather have him than Trump regardless of the policies each advocated. It's also called cultural suicide.
That's what I'm saying. All they had to do was watch the full unedited videos for themselves. If they are that lazy then they deserve to be stupid. It is scary isn't it. Because we also were once stupid, apparently. I'm starting to believe that it has always been this way. Trump's true legacy was teaching us that news, and even most history, is all fake. I now have to reevaluate everything I ever believed since I thought as was an intellectual college student, many years ago.
George Orwell once said "There are some ideas so stupid only intellectuals believe them." The concept of bad decisions coming from echo chambers is very understood in psychology today. It can lead a room full of intelligent men to all agree that launching the bay of pigs attack was a good idea, even though virtually every one of them realized how profoundly foolish and stupid it was years later. A lot of people in show business are detached from reality, and have lost all sense of life for people as a result. It leads to much of what we see. The voice of reason is mute indeed...because we elevate the views of these people so disconnected from reality.
I'm a libertarian and I was pro mask and vaccine, but against a vaccine mandate. I think its fine for businesses to mandate it for entry. I don't really like Trump either. I don't feel like this makes me less libertarian.
@@holidaytrout5174 I don't mind a business doing what they want either. 100%. But when I recognize the strong arm pressure that government put on a majority of business to comply with covid madness, I start to side with Republicans like DeSantis who fought against mandates. This way, at least individuals can choose. It's not a perfect solution, but it's the only option we had
There's no distinction. Governments offloading authoritarianism onto businesses so as to remove pressure on themselves is plain dishonest. #BanAllMandates
@@holidaytrout5174 So you think it’s fine for businesses , aka NON STATE ACTORS , to enforce vaccine compliance ? So you are comfortable with someone who is NOT law enforcement , nonetheless requesting our papers and private medical records ? Here in the West, we’ve worked very hard to have confidentiality enshrined in the law ( ie Patient and Doctor or Client and Lawyer privilege ) and have put a lot of effort into safeguarding access to medical records by those not authorized or entitled. This changes now because of a short-lived bad respiratory illness ? 🤷♂️ Wow 😯!
@@michaelashby9654 The foundation would be to maximize freedom and minimize government intrusion. Pretty simple really. That being said there’s plenty of room left for a more right or left leaning worldview at the level of the individual, provided that everyone agrees to adhere to the aforementioned as much as possible. Progressives on the other hand believe in stuff like centralized authority and the perfectibility of human nature through various forms of coercion. So do conservatives for that matter, but nobody’s gonna call Gillette a conservative.
@@michaelashby9654 The trouble is libertarianism has come to be associated with Conservatism, which makes no bloody sense, since conservatism is historically the playground of authoritarian religious morality. The only "libertarian" aspect of conservatives is their general adulation of "free markets", further demonstrating their blindness to reality, because there's nothing "free market" about the capitalism we see in the Western World this century. Our "capitalism" is ENTIRELY planned by billionaire commettees who price fix, supply fix, and they often spend more on marketing than product and research because they know that even demand is flexible, because human minds are highly groomable. What the documentary Century Of Self to understand how feeble the human mind is in most people. ruclips.net/video/DnPmg0R1M04/видео.html
makes me like Penn even more. I would say that masks should have been and should be required when you have a communicable illness as a social standard whether its a cold, the flu covid. the point is that you are doing what you can to not spread it to others. As for the vaccine I agree with him on that for the private sector, the public sector has a responsibility to look out for the general (which welfare. I wasn't shocked by people calling themselves libertarians in the US that came out against vaccines and masks since its its been passed off as a conservative-lite ideology when that is inaccurate, libertarianism is about valuing individual liberty, and that liberty can only happen in an egalitarian setting which is the cornerstone of left wing ideology and why people like Stalin and Mao betray those values by creating a hierarchy that enforces equality through right wing structure. On the point about the US not being the center of attention anymore on the world stage, its something that we should have learned 30yrs ago if not before. 5 people have gotten to the presidency without the consent of the voter but the consent of the state legislators(that no one ever seems to like) through the electoral college and that EC vote can override the vote of the people, that is why the Electoral college should be done away with. the argument from tariffs is different from the left than on the right, on the right its about the foreign country undercutting American business(because they view America as inherently superior) whereas on the left its these people are exploited in authoritarian countries to produce in factories with no labor standards or representation government to address that concern, so its competing on an uneven playing field
If Penn believes that women should have bodily autonomy regarding abortion why does he believe that bodily autonomy doesn’t apply when it comes to vaccines? Last I heard Penn didn’t believe that people should be able to choose what drugs they could put in their bodies and that vaccines should be mandated. This is strange because when discussing bodily autonomy he seems to forget that there is another body involved when it comes to abortion. So who’s bodily autonomy does he think abortion protects?
I wonder if people in the comments realize that Milton Friedman acknowledged externalities (such as secondhand smoke) and argued for government intervention in those cases.
When given the option between Larry Elder and Gavin Newsom, he got on stage and campaigned with Gavin. I had the misfortune of living under the rule of that piece of trash from 2019 until a month ago. I don’t need to bother listening to any defense of Penn, his actions spoke louder.
@@tommyanomaly6193 shocking…. the no real libertarian argument. Yeah I’ll take the man who talks about Thomas Sowell and Walter Williams being his biggest influence over any of the 20 something other people that put their names on the ballot, especially considering that Elder was the only one with the name recognition to actually to have a chance at winning.
@@tommyanomaly6193 Libertarians should be taking after the ideas of Hoppe, where gaining political traction at the local level and then privatizing services that way where a political approach is opted for by liberty-minded people and communities. It's merely binary thinking to only view the act of voting as how its is promoted and packaged to be within a strict system.
Penn is no longer the capable critical thinker he used to be. Like Chomsky, age has not been kind the parts of his mind that do logic and reason independently. Following those mistakenly held in esteem is what's left for both of them. Oh well, c'est la vie.
@@robfromvan As a conservative minded Libertarian, I don't agree with Chomsky or Penn politically. I mentioned Chomsky specifically because he wrote Manufacturing Consent, which is an excellent representation of the propagandistic U.S. media, regardless of his political ideologies. He of all people should know better, but he was still captured by the media lies regarding Covid.
Here's the tell: "I get scared". Fear is the realm of the statists and control freaks: its what they sell, knowing you [if buying in] will give them more power to "make it stop" - a moment that is almost never produced. Anyway, he'll make up his own mind as always. If I could point one thing out it is that fear and faith cannot occupy the same space at the same time. As we all get older, that sometimes helps sort out a few things.
@@kenhiett5266 not to mention that the entire news media is on the side of the political left so they always spin it from that side; I know he did that documentary but it’s hard to take it seriously when he appears to just spout propaganda himself. He’s an apologist for Pol Pot after all, and other leftists who killed a lot of people, just because they “meant well.”
All of the big atheists I grew up listening to, and who I thought looked at things objectively and rationally, all ended up basically going insane. None of these people exist in reality any more since trump happened. I guess they didn't worship God, but they certainly had a lot of faith in whatever comfortable collective mirage ended in 2016. I guess we all worship something, whether we choose to see it or not.
I wished we discussed this more. There are two types of atheists: people who never had faith, raised faith-free (very few of us) and people who rebelled against their religious parents (who still have religious values to a great extent, like on morality, but reject god and some conservative religious views). Socially, there have been two generations of atheist activism: early activism which was secularist (separation of church and state, legal battles against religion in schools, on money, in business), à la Madelyn Murray O'Hare, and Gnu-atheism, the showy celebrity naval-gazing atheists who made up the "four horsemen of atheism" crowd, who rarely did the legal battles, they were more interested in low-hanging branches and lazy "gotcha" moments, as the early content creators they were, repping for their income and followers. Chris Hitchens was the last worthy atheist activist As for the magician crowd, they are tricksters, never understood why anyone adulates them.
I think Penn sounded reasonable as fuck. I don't neccesarily agree with everything he said but it was all very reasonable. I don't think the comment section is right to rip on him.
As a atheist math obsessed biologist-epidemiologist-adjacent, I can assure you that none of his science positions are reasonable. He has always been a faith based lazy activist, only interested in naval gazing, never actual truth.
I don't hate Trump, although he was a little embarrassing at times, no biggie. Trump is pure awesomeness to have gotten anything done at all. Imagine being President and blockaded on all sides. That was his Presidency and he still kicked some ass.
Completely missing the point that most people made, which was that you should have the independent right to choose what to put in your body, not that nobody should ever get it the vaccine. Completely different views.
I don't think we should ban the word "evil", because that word is a strong indicator of the speaker's capacity for rational discussion. Instead we should ban the use of words based on their reputation instead of their meaning. The word "toxic" for example is being used in place of "evil" because it sounds more clinical, and the people who use it have adopted it to hide how irrational they are.
Makes more sense than libertarians for Trump. California does have legal weed, abortion rights, and supports freedom of movement compared to Republican states. If he was pro gun, I would suck that man's penis.
On masks, it's not a matter of 'I shouldn't be forced to wear one to protect others,' it's a matter of 'no one should be forced to wear one to protect me, and as a natural result that extends to me as well.' I choose to wear a mask around those who ask me to, because I respect them. I chose to wear masks with pithy slogans when I was compelled to wear them, because the words on the mask were a protest of the mask mandates.
I became a Libertarian around 2012 after leaving the Republican party. In part due to Penn being a Libertarian, I decided to look into Libertarianism. While I appreciate many aspects of Libertarianism, I do not like some of the associations with people that I find to be dangerous. I'm not talking about official party associations, but the embracement of Libertarianism by fringe groups. I don't see myself ever going back to being a Republican, or be a Democrat, but I am really more independent now. I'm sorry but Libertarians have no chance in national politics, which is a fault of the 2 party system. Therefore, until this wave of absolute nuttery of the GOP these days is defeated, I will have to vote Democrat to try to do my part in defeating this wave of stupidity. EVERYONE should be united in defeating this shit.
There's a difference between a libertarian and a Libertarian. The latter refers to people in the Libertarian party (which, FWIW, has changed since the Mises caucus, for the better IMO). The former refers only to people with the philosophy. There's a big difference. You didn't say otherwise or anything, but I wanted to point out your misuse of the capital L Libertarian. As far as fringe groups adopting libertarianism, well, it is the ultimate celebration of individual liberties and minorities (and as Ayn Rand so astutely put it, the individual is the smallest minority), and fringe groups are small minorities. One can support the right for people to believe as they please and not support what they believe at the same time.
@@ArtofFreeSpeech Without the clear and constant condemnation of these groups by the Libertarian party and the libertarians in it, I can't sign on to any part of it. I can't stop them from thinking their bullshit, but I can insist on societal isolationism.
@@MusicGunn You can condemn the groups, but still not condemn their right to free speech. They're not the same thing, which is what I was saying. For instance, I abhor both the KKK AND Antifa equally, but I would support both of their rights to free speech. The people in the Mises caucus HAVE condemned hate groups on both sides, and they STILL support the rights of these groups to free speech. Just which group, specifically, have you found saying they're capital L libertarians?
@@ArtofFreeSpeech It isn't just one group, but take White Christian Nationalism. Also, this isn't about free speech. No one can take that away from them, with some limits. What you may not understand is that every right has limits. Free speech has its limits too. Example: You can yell fire in a crowded theater and if no one gets hurt in the panic that follows, you will most likely not face charges, if someone dies, you could and should face charges. Speech that endangers others lives, is not and should not be protected by the 1st Amendment. White Christian Nationalism and their agenda of hate is a threat to society, if you do not see that then I suggest you open your eyes.
@@MusicGunn I can't find anything linking WCN and the Libertarian party. I also don't believe White Nationalism is any kind of major threat to the U.S., but by that I mean I don't believe the tiny fringe groups like the KKK are serious threats. This leads me to ask, however, when you say White Nationalist, are you referring to KKK like groups? Or are you referring to Western Culture in general? That is, are you one of those who claims we live in white supremacist patriarchal capitalist society and that Western society is a problem and inherently racist, etc...? Or are you referring to the tiny fringe hate groups?
Can someone please explain to these obviously learned people that believing abortion to be murder is irrelevant to ones position on choice! You can believe in both. If the world stopped mixing issues and talking about them as if they are one and the same, there would be less arguing and more doing! There is no mutual exclusivity here... Its that old adage, I don't agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it. I might or might not agree with abortion, but it is a woman's right to decide. I would have used the phrase "I believe in a woman's right to decide", but it soundeed really weird when I read it back to myself. What do I mean? Well, I would be like saying "I believe the bicycles have two wheels"... How can you not believe in a fact?
He played the father of Amy on the big bang theory, several episodes, a handful of lines. Also showed up (and spoke several lines) in one of the atlas shrugged series of episodic movies.
Penn's mask support is built on false analogy "no masks equals drunk driving". It's not. The analogy for drunk driving is walking around while infected. I believe most reasonable people would agree that requiring masks for INFECTED PEOPLE is fine. But mask mandates apply to all people, most of them healthy. It would be like requiring those breathalyzer sensors to be put in every car, truck, bicycle, motorcycle, and scooter. That's not even touching the "effectiveness on masks on Pacific beaches" thing which is a story of ScienceTM on its own. Obviously, a guy who supports Newsom is not a libertarian, and everyone who said "Elder is worse" is not libertarian either, because that person puts you into false dichotomy situation prevalent in American politics. The guy who got the third place during the recall election (Paffrath) was way more libertarian than Elder and, obviously, Newsom.
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How can any libertarian support Trump's position that the president can do whatever he wants and be immune from prosecution even when he"s no longer president?
He was for libertarianism when the evangelical was more powerful. He was actually a leftist the entire time. He’s not actually a libertarian.
That is exactly what i suspected. Some people don't realize they are leftists because they are not that introspective.
@@cucubanana4226 Reminds me of the flag ball meme of smiling Anarcho-Communist mask over an angry all red ball behind it .
Narrator: Evangelicals were never powerful
Exactly... the things he most railed against was censorship of porn and other easy issues to pick apart. Especially since back then people didn't furiously attack and cancel. I loved Bullshit, even though i was way too young to be watching it lol.
@@fyrchmyrddin1937 This is true, it was Tipper Gore going after rap music, a battle over Walmart shelves, pales in comparison to what happens today.
dude was celebrating Newsom's victory over the recall. he's no longer libertarian
Yeah he's authoritarian now.
He did??
Newsom is a staunch Anti-gunner getting funded by Bloomberg and Soros. Anyone who supports Newsom doesn't deserve to be called a libertarian.
You can never really trust these people. They always have to sell their brand.
Source?
I was a libertarian for 25 minutes when I was 19. The comment section here makes me feel glad that I grew up. Especially since I have always been more than 5302% less optimistic than sweet sweet summer child Penn
I don’t know how a borderline libertarian can’t come out of 2020 thinking the government should have less power
Yep. Makes you question all of his instincts.
I came out thinking the government needs the power it had in the 1950s-60s and that the this fake "liberty" chaos actor movement by anarchists needs to be destroyed by FBI and ATF bullets if necessary.
He pretty much tells on himself at 32:11 by saying he doesn't believe in evil. It's that level of naivety and the hubris of post modernism that has gotten us stuck in this satanic self-mutalating sludge.
even old guys like to do the cool thing without really thinking it through
Absolutely agree. 2020 and CVD has shook my faith in the American People right down to its foundations!! The tyranny I witnessed with restrictions and trampling of our constitution rights and to have the American People roll over and take it shocked me.
I’ll never look at this country and it’s people the same as long as I live.
One's views on liberty should not change just because one is more cognizant of their impending end.
That is what we see here with Penn. He is more concerned about his life than his liberty.
Such a shame. Penn was a great mouthpiece for liberty in the past. #RIPLiberty
He was the mouthpiece of responsible liberty and still is. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.
@@Raiver-of-Eridu No, he is in favor of worthless mandates that take away personal responsibility and individual freedom.
Couldn't said it better.
If anything, this panic put people to the test. When things get really difficult, it is when people truly show who they are.
I saw so many people who claimed to be libertarian going to be pro-lockdowns and pro-mandates so quickly it was hilarious, and also I saw many people who were supposedly leftists who actually were anti-lockdowns and anti-mandates and showed that in the places where it matters the most, they were actually way more libertarian than self claimed libertarians.
Some ppl would rather be safe than free
@@Raiver-of-Eridu "responsible liberty" is mandating waxxines? Cuz that's what both he and Nick advocate.
Maybe he should understand that most Libertarianism is meant for less government and more personal responsibility. But that's too much to ask these days.
Yeah. Guns for one. Lot of lack of personal responsibility there. We don’t/shouldn’t need laws to have discipline!
That's exactly what he always thought. But he woke up to the fact that libertarians were for the former and showed none of the latter.
@@Raiver-of-Eridu based
Indeed, the whole "What do we do about the immunocompromised" part really triggered me a lot, because not only that has existed way before covid and he never seemed to give a fuck before covid, but sadly it is a problem of personal responsibility. You are responsable for your own health. If you are immunocompromised you change your behavior to lower your risk, you don't expect all of society to change their behavior for your sole benefit.
@@ShikiByakko If you think he didn't give a fuck before covid you really didn't watch much of his stuff.
I've listened to and watched Penn for almost 40 years. I've disagreed with him, but he's always made sense. For the first time ever, he is making absolutely no sense.
He picked his paycheque over his integrity.
I'm not saying I agree with everything Penn said, but I think being anti-mandate and pro-vaccine is an important distinction and makes a lot of sense. Why are people arguing against individuals choosing to be vaccinated?
@@StrawHat83 did penn at any point say he was anti-mandate? or did you mean penn is anti-mandate except for covid because everyone should just agree with the mandates anyway? from what i can tell most people are upset about being forced to take an untested emergency use vaccine (that doesnt meet the actual definition of vaccine so they changed its definition) against their will and then entirely unable to hold the creators accountable if something goes wrong. violating every sense of my body my choice, informed consent, and the nuremberg code.
@@StrawHat83 I don't know. I don't know anyone who would fit that description.
But, that's not what I'm talking about. From what I heard, basically Penn is no longer a libertarian because he doesn't like Trump. I can respect someone who changes their principles because of some specific event. But, Penn's description of his "conversion" basically distills down to "I don't like Trump" and "I'm afraid of Covid". His reasoning, such as it is, is simply nonsensical.
@@brushylake4606 _"But, Penn's description of his "conversion" basically distills down to "I don't like Trump" and "I'm afraid of Covid"_
Penn should have just taken the vaccination Trump has been strong advocate from the start (whole operation warp speed in spring 2020) and thus be safe from Covid.
Early in the interview he refers to institutional power as, "the grown ups." The last thing the government has behaved like is the, "grown ups."
COVID did a number on the guy. If he trusts institutional power and sees them as parental figures, he was never a libertarian.
As an atheist his brush with death probably maddened him slightly, and he refers to covid times (while living in Hollywood, btw) as, "a blur."
I have health problems that have threatened my life, I never then lost my ability to think rationally.
Another casualty of Hollywood culture.
@Down with Corporate Amerika What you are complaining about was caused by a chain of government abuse.
"In 1910, the physician oligopoly was started during the Republican administration of William Taft after the American Medical Association lobbied the states to strengthen the regulation of medical licensure and allow their state AMA offices to oversee the closure or merger of nearly half of medical schools and also the reduction of class sizes. The states have been subsidizing the education of the number of doctors recommended by the AMA.
In 1925, prescription drug monopolies begun after the federal government led by Republican President Calvin Coolidge started allowing the patenting of drugs. (Drug monopolies have also been promoted by government research and development subsidies targeted to favored pharmaceutical companies.)
In 1945, buyer monopolization begun after the McCarran-Ferguson Act led by the Roosevelt Administration exempted the business of medical insurance from most federal regulation, including antitrust laws. (States have also more recently contributed to the monopolization by requiring health care plans to meet standards for coverage.)
In 1946, institutional provider monopolization begun after favored hospitals received federal subsidies (matching grants and loans) provided under the Hospital Survey and Construction Act passed during the Truman Administration. (States have also been exempting non-profit hospitals from antitrust laws.)
In 1951, employers started to become the dominant third-party insurance buyer during the Truman Administration after the Internal Revenue Service declared group premiums tax-deductible.
In 1965, nationalization was started with a government buyer monopoly after the Johnson Administration led passage of Medicare and Medicaid which provided health insurance for the elderly and poor, respectively.
In 1972, institutional provider monopolization was strengthened after the Nixon Administration started restricting the supply of hospitals by requiring federal certificate-of-need for the construction of medical facilities.
In 1974, buyer monopolization was strengthened during the Nixon Administration after the Employee Retirement Income Security Act exempted employee health benefit plans offered by large employers (e.g., HMOs) from state regulations and lawsuits (e.g., brought by people denied coverage).
In 1984, prescription drug monopolies were strengthened during the Reagan Administration after the Drug Price Competition and Patent Term Restoration Act permitted the extension of patents beyond 20 years. (The government has also allowed pharmaceuticals companies to bribe physicians to prescribe more expensive drugs.)
In 2003, prescription drug monopolies were strengthened during the Bush Administration after the Medicare Prescription Drug, Improvement, and Modernization Act provided subsidies to the elderly for drugs.
In 2014, nationalization will be strengthened after the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act of 2010 (“Obamacare”) provided mandates, subsidies and insurance exchanges, and the expansion of Medicaid."
And the vegan diet
Reminds me of the Enron the smartest guys in the room title. He once railed at religion, but he now just believes in a different set of priests. The type that worships appearances, look the part, sound the part, Sorkin's West Wing/NPR credibility voice, but even that is breaking down.
He's a magician who can't tell if the most powerful trick is still working.
@Down with Corporate Amerika Trusting big pharma to manage the centralization and planning of medical services reallocated by force through the very bureaucracy you mislabel as a for profit system is the entire problem of going by what's taught by government schools and universities, cemented further by the corporate press. Post lockdown era proves where centralized medical planning leads to, which is a medical caste system based solely around political control. You scapegoat greed onto the voluntary sector, which routinely suffers from the destructive hand of unqualified organizers in the political sector. They care for control far more than profit, and profit is the only means of which practically the nonpolitical person can generate wealth and accrue resources for himself.
The rampant destruction of socialized planning is so obvious at this point post 2020 that a person must be a fool to trust blindly in the State. Or some must merely be just disingenuous in their question begging, and would only genuinely wish the destruction of voluntary and peaceful people by vilifying their creating better lives for themselves.
@Down with Corporate Amerika health care in the US isn't in a free market it's heavily socialzed and regulated
Damn. Lost alot of respect for Penn. And hes been a major influence on me.
Im sure he will never read this, but i wish someone would remind Penn that just because some people use freedom in a way you dont agree with, doesnt mean their freedom should be taken away, or that they are doing it wrong.
Many wearing a Libertarian name tag are actually just Libertines.
It's a real problem in the LP
There’s a distinction between being a libertarian and being an anarchist.
Maximizing liberty requires constraints on those who would use their liberties to trample on the liberties of others.
“If you don’t like the way I drive stay off the sidewalk” is not inherently Libertarian.
@@Justanotherconsumer Yes but the analogy was used by Penn to justify the fact that not wearing a mask was risking people around you and thus - I suppose - : masks should be mandatory. Which is complete BS....
It's not about just masks being mandatory. When you drive on a road, you agree to show your competence by having a license, and your responsibility by having a car that is safe for the road and by having insurance or self insuring by a bond. IMO as a long time libertarian, those conditions are not unreasonable, and neither is the requirement you are going to mask up if you are in my face. We CAN have a reasonable argument about under what conditions all of these are necessary.
@@billmankin6204 Requiring masks to participate in society is legally a restriction on freedom of movement. House arrest technically. And that is not even getting into the logic or science at all, just legally it is depriving you of due process as guaranteed by the Bill of Rights and 14th Amendment.
Driving a car is not protected as it is a privilege (under property ownership laws) and not a right.
No, he supported Newsom and Biden lol.
Newsom and all other DemonRats are staunch communists. And same is the case with their financiers Michael Bloomberg and George Soros, although they earn all of their money from capitalist institutions such as stock markets. Gun-grabbers like Everytown for gun safety and Moms demand Action are all funded by Bloomberg and Soros despite them earning huge money from capitalist institutions like stock markets. There were no stock markets in erstwhile Soviet Russia when it was communist. Would it have been possible for Bloomberg and Soros to become billionaire at there?
So did Donald Chump.....Donald Chump supported Jimmy Carter, Walter Mondale, Ted Kennedy, Chuck Schumer, Charles Rangel, Nancy Pelosi, Jerry Brown, David Dinkins, Harry Reid, Joe Biden, John Kerry, Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, Kristen Gillibrand, Anthony Wiener, Gavin Newsom, Kamala Harris, and many more leftists.
@@barfo281 cool I don’t like Trump
@@trey8770 #MeToo
@Joseph There was no booming economy under RINO Trump, RINO Trump escalated Bush and Obama wars, RINO Trump outspent Obama by double in half the time, and did more socialism, more gun control, more debt, bigger deficits, more nanny state policies, etc. than Obama, and he distracted you with his childish twitter crybaby antics. No wonder lifelong NY liberal degenerate democrat conman Trump loves the poorly educated. Look at you.
When it was his values being shut down he wanted less government when it’s the values he opposed now that the government is pushing his values he has left the movement.
"When I am weaker than you, I ask you for freedom because that is according to your principles; when I am stronger than you, I take away your freedom because that is according to my principles.
- Harq al-Ada, Children of Dune, misattributed to Louis Veuillot
But you would never do that.
We're all just on sides of a tug-of-rope, pulling the center in our direction. If the center ever moves past your ideal point, you'll "switch sides" too. Right now, the ancaps are my allies. If the day came where we got a classically liberal government and it started veering ancap, I'd be pulling against them
The dude literally said he'd rather have a socialist completely fuck up than to have a guy like Trump save lives from pulling troops out of a war, provided the guy was thoughtful in his decision to fuck things up. Like what? And of course, Nick just patronized him the whole time, and should've pushed back on that more.
PENN was very disillusioned by Trump because he thought Trump was truly dumb. Penn thought the president should lead by example & wear a mask on tv
,
He is exactly the type of libertarian that Hoppe warned us about.
You mean a liberal
Ye
🚁
@@HarryPainter a connoisseur of South American culture, I see.
🚁
💃☭
🌊🌊🌊🌊🌊
It's mind boggling just how much these guys agree with, that they can list off that Trump did as President and still insist that he was a horrible, because he said mean things.
@Down with Corporate Amerika You need to look up the meaning of literally.
This people are fraud, they know the moment they defend Trump they are going after him, suddenly he is not a liberterian anymore lol everyone is scare of government what they did to Trump it was a broad message to everyone look what we can do to the actual president, remember this people are fraud.
Just because he did a few good things doesn't mean he was a good president, especially from a libertairan persepective. He kicked off his campaign by announcing his desire to limit immigration by building a wasteful wall and he was popular because he supported economic protectionism, neither is libertarian.
@@frankiel3767 is the wall in question the very one that President Biden is shoring up as we speak?
@@jjrockjaw Yes, that one.
I'm questioning whether Penn ever was a libertarian. It's easy to have libertarian opinions when things are fine but it requires true convictions to stick to libertarian principles when you're in a difficult nationwide/worldwide phenomenon like a pandemic or have a president who you personally despise.
@George Washburn
He was never a true libertarian, he supported Walmart on his Penn and Teller BS show. Walmart is the most anti libertarian store out there. They lobby the government to force their competitors to have higher prices so everyone would shop at Walmart.
Good point. When he celebrated Newsome's victory in the recall I knew the old Penn was dead and buried.
He even looks like a different person, and not in a good way. 😕
It's like the left or right people who claim to be free speech advocates until they hear speech they disagree with.
I think he was always a little more of a contrarian and provocateur in the name of comedy and desire for fame
Government expertise? It's never happened in my lifetime.
Or the entire human history
You're both wrong.
I cannot think of a single organisation, voluntary or itherwise, that is quite so expert at picking the exact wrong things to do fron a rational perspective.
So you're wrong in a way that kinda makes you still right 😉
"Anarchy is no guarantee that some people won't kill,injure, kidnap, defraud, or steal from others. Government is a guarantee that some will. " Gustave de Molinari
@@NathanCline12-21 Thank you m8. 😃 👍
Covid taught us that literally no one in the government is an expert at anything, besides profiting off of their positions.
No. Next question.
Jillette is still a libertarian, in my book. He is a decent person too.
This comment section is depressing. When did libertarian become a synonym for antisocial?
Those who'd sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.
When you become an adult you should have realized "the adults" didn't have everything figured out
Adults are just better at pretending they have everything figured out.
"Emotional reaction". He's being honest and frank there. There's no place in entertainment circles unless you embrace the progressive left positions and policies. The emotional reaction being Fear. Fear as a Libertarian he would be labeled Far Right. So he folded like a house of cards on his principles.
Ah you nailed it. It is hard to make a man disagree with that with which his money depends on. This is so true and I didn't really think about it about it until just now. Of course Gillette is going to become a brain dead liberal otherwise he would be kicked out of the club.
It does seem that way. I’m disappointed. I’ve always thought quite highly of him. I frequently disagree with him but I thought he was an honest man. I’m a little disappointed in Nick Gillespie too.
@@vladtheimpala5532 Oh Gillespie has been unbearable for a while now
He never "folded". He was delusional and doctrinaire back then too. Most Humanist-adjacent (Humanism the religion) are just as deluded as any other religion. They believe in the Spockish "live long and prosper".
Not mask waering equal to driving drunk? That did not age well. Lol
No. His stance on pronoun nonsense alone disqualifies him
Why, because pronouns are bad?
Exactly. All the Gnu-atheists were fakers and shysters. They had FAITH in "the science" because it made them look good, flattering their ego, no different than Bill Gates narcissism, and going after "gotcha" moments, and low-hanging branches. The Gnu-atheists killed the atheist movement, the same way liberal feminists ruined historical feminism.
@@pmbooks5785
No … pronouns aren’t “bad” …
They are superfluous though 🤷♂️
I don't get the hate from Libertarians he is currently getting.
He has never said government should step in and control people (via. taxes or. regulations) he just takes the "personal responsibility" very seriously.
He supports, open borders, free trade, low taxes, small police force, small military, but that means he supports personal responsibility.
You do know that his daughter decided she was a trans, so then he flipped on everything, right?
Now he can't even answer a simple question without an emotional sales pitch, first... if he ever even actually answers the question at all.
No didn’t know that.
Good to know while watching this.
As if true libertarians give a fuck about adults being trans
So letting people have control over their own identity is contrary to Libertarian principles?
Honestly it sounds like a lot of “libertarians” are just conservatives that don’t want to be called conservatives.
Yup he totally joined trans cult, pretty dad
No policies, just garbage feelings. Losing respect for Penn, and I could care less about Trump.
You COULD care less, so you do care some for Trump?
I'd figure someone would care so little that they could not care less about Trump if they lost respect for Penn over this.
@@Meton2526 His only hatred for Trump is because of his feelings. That's woke BS. Most people in the country especially minorities (which Penn said Trump is a racist) did better under Trump. I'd like to know what policies Penn didn't like. I can't stand Obama, but I liked when he gave all those pardons. I liked that policy. I hated his Healthcare policy. Just want a policy, not feelings.
@@kristinaolson77 WHOOOOOSH
I'm making fun of the fact that you said "I could care less" which is a common mistake of not understanding what "I could NOT care less" means.
@@Meton2526 oooooh. You got me!
No, and he never was
yes he was
He was staunch atheist for sure, but a staunch libertarian too? Its difficult to answer in one way or the other.
@@vidyanandbapat8032 He was a superficial vain celebrity seeking atheist who always had blind faith in science. Magicians... sheesh, kiddy food
Short answer: no
Long answer: he never was
Tell me more
Libertarian =/= anarchist. Even Thomas Jefferson said “No man has a right to harm another” and government should restrain that man from doing harm
.
I have self-quarantined three times. Never have gotten a positive COVID test result, but I had some mild symptoms and I work with clients all over the area. I have done everything I could, to avoid putting anyone at risk, at my expense.
Do I wear a mask? No, I don't, at least most of the time. Neither empirical studies nor theory, suggest that they are at all effective, with the possible exception of properly worn and frequently disposed-of N95 masks which might have a minimal effect.
If I really need to wear a mask, say in a medical office, I wear a rated mask that might possibly be slightly effective. I refuse to wear a costume mask, which includes the surgical masks that they give out -- you breathe right around them, in use.
This isn't because I'm a libertarian. It's because I'm skeptical, I do my best to be scientifically informed, and I strive to be authentic. I want freedom for individuals, my values include responsibility, and I also want to see the evidence.
That USED to describe Penn.
Boom!
The effectiveness of surgical masks has been well-documented in peer-reviewed, scientific studies. Surgeons don't wear them for fun.
@@UserNameAnonymous surgeons don't wear them to prevent the transmission of airborne pathogens.
@@barrydworak - Right. They wear them to block microscopic droplets of saliva.
@@UserNameAnonymous block, not filter. COVID is airborne and spreads from the upper respiratory tract. A properly fitted filter mask like an N95 blocks saliva drops AND filters exhaled air. And to to the best of my knowledge, only this type of mask has been shown to slow the spread of COVID specifically (and then only by about 20% but it's something, anyway).
Shame, turns out he wants to dictate other peoples lives as much as any one else. Really used to like this guy.
Penn is so in love with The Science (tm) that he can't recognize Institutional Capture when it's right in front of his face.
It's better to love scientific method.
@@tubetorpedo Yes and like Richard Feynman said, "the only thing we can say about this theory is that it hasn't been proved wrong yet."
@@mathman43 except when it comes to the CDC's theories they have ALL been PROVEN WRONG.
@@mugsofmirth8101 Those aren't theories. Look up the scientific definition of theory.
@@AnonYmous-jf8jj I did and your CDC theory is DEBUNKED.
Pretty much this entire video made me sad. I used to have such respect for Penn Jillette. As a libertarian atheist myself, he was someone who embodied a lot of my own beliefs, or so I thought. How sad to see him from a libertarian to an authoritarian!?!
Now think how those of who have become ancaps feel
@@jthemagicrobot3960 MIstakenly thinking "ancap" is "ultra-libertarian" or "ultra-moral" is idiotic and delusional, in the extreme. Literally the only thing conferred on someone who is "ancap" is "an inability to implement their stated philosophy." The fact that I'm wrong in the case that AGI institutes ancapism only underscores the fact that humans won't buy into ancapism on their own. As such, it's encouraging motion away from the one philosophy that might save humanity, as a whole.
Not exactly an authoritarian. More like braindead.
@@JakeWitmer Nice rant but ancaps are simply libertarians who take the principles seriously.
@@snex000 You are incorrect. "Anarchists" are edge-lords who don't care to implement their principles at the human level. Indeed, by pretending to take principles seriously, they show that they take them less seriously, since they then become non-implementable. "Anarchists" are the easiest people for Bill Redpath (almost certainly the LP's IC "intelligence community" saboteur) to manipulate into neutralizing themselves. (If you know anything about how the IC neutralized AIM, you have a blueprint for how they've neutralized the USA Libertarian Party.)
"If your philosophy is good and true, then you owe it to your philosophy to learn how to win." -Morton Blackwell
Spooner (not an anarchist, BTW) realized that rhetoric that couldn't be implemented was useless. Thoreau (also not an anarchist) realized the same. The prior is why both people translated their ideas into ideas that were strengthened by juries and the common law, and why both men organized juries to oppose unjust laws. (Which was, by the way, perfectly compatible with the evolved British common law. ...The evolved British common law, BTW, that every single "anarchist" wants upheld when they enter a corrupted court of today.)
Ah well, who am I kidding. Impotent edge-lords don't listen. ...And half of them are feds trying to derail any serious movement, and/or entrap gullible idiots.
There's no strategic endgame for "anarchism." This is why feds encourage it so much. ...Sadly, the government schools have accomplished their mission...very few people know jack shit about their rights under the common law, nor how it's supposed to work.
If Penn believes in masks why is he not wearing a mask during the interview?
Most/all so called libertarian's masks have come off by now...
Must be on the 6 ft BS bandwagon too
Anyone who supports face Diapers and Vaccines, atleast a mandate for it, cannot be called a libertarian.
Because it's not 2020 and he is vaccinated.
@@Raiver-of-Eridu Vaccinated people can still spread the virus especially if he did not get ALL the multiple boosters.
As to it not being 2020, doesn't the flu kill people and won't masks stop it?
Now, the flu probably kills less than COVID but it is still risking lives.
As soon as he starts talking about how wonderful wearing a mask is I know he has lost any ability to reason. The virus is 17 times smaller than the weave of a mask and how many times were we told they don't work? Yet he carries on with the line. No respect.
You should just wear few more mask on top of each other. That'll help for sure. Let's call them _booster masks._
I'm against mask mandate. But you really got how these masks work wrong. Imagine you're a bird trying to fly through a dense forest as fast as you could. The gap between the trees are several times bigger than you are. But if you just fly straight through, you're most definitely going to hit a tree and not make it out of the other side. That's basically how a PROPERLY FITTED mask works (anything else are just costume pieces). And depend on the type, the mask could also be statically charged and actively attracts particles as air moves through.
It's spread through water droplets that get caught on the mask
Stop #Lying to the People and Try talking to a REAL DOCTOR - Masks have been PROVEN to work if you wear them properly .. You don't understand the SCIENCE of WHY they work ..
You are aware that you have mucus and saliva and that is what you expel when you breath, cough, or sneeze. The virus is contained in those droplets which is what the mask is capturing. I shake my head when people like you spout this complete lack of understanding. Masks, when properly used, prevent the spread of disease. I am against the mandates just to be clear, this should be left up to the individual to choose. But at the same time, business owners should have the choice to not let you in their store if you are not wearing one. At 7-Eleven it says "no shirt, no shoes, no service". Does that mean 7-Eleven is forcing you to wear a shirt? No. It just means if you choose not to wear one they will not serve you.
Penn sold out
I will save everyone... No. He is not.
Never was, was always a Libertine. I was told to shut up by another libertarian once many years ago for saying that back when BS was a popular show.
Dunno, but to me, he has always been a very obvious libertine.
I’m shocked by how much these dudes believe media spin rather than the words out of Trump’s mouth. These guys should know how misquotes and edits work.
When Trump went on national television and advocated for red flag laws and bigger stimulus checks the media wouldn't even bring it up - they just kept talking about Russia
They honestly believe that Trump called all Mexicans "rapists". The difference between "they're" and "their" completely changes the meaning.
@@paulgeorge315 i dont watch the reasontv guy a lot, but was shocked when he implied trump said all mexican immigrants were grapists. thought he would have a more reasonable take on that like... possibly going back to the direct quote instead of media shaded quotes
I’ll hold Gillette to the higher standard here, given that he at one point at least positioned himself as some form of skeptic. (Whereas Gillespie is merely the self-described libertarian).
In either case though they really oughta know better than to indulge their biases so plainly. They go with the interpretation which suits their argument and don’t think twice about it.
@@paulgeorge315 no the instance everyone clings to claiming Trump called them rapists being false is not due to possessive pronouns but rather it is the subject - he clearly was talking about ms-13, not Mexicans. Also, and how these guys never even seem to be aware of this which blows my mind, is how do they think Trump has brought so many Hispanics over to his side, to unprecedented levels which is nearing 50%?
Penn jillette has gone from telling jokes, to being the punchline.
it sucks to think that but yeah
But by embracing the socialist left he gets on TV so has been laughing all the way to the bank. He’s just another sellout.
True sadly.
If the comments section is anything to go by, Nick and Penn are both regretting this episode.
Only with the people like you who the majority of us are laughing at.
Penn Jillete supported Biden in the 2020 election, and said he didn't care about taxes or bad regulations as long as Biden loves the Trump voters.
And Reason magazine says Jillete is still an libertarian.
Geez ,good thing I don't waste my time on voting anymore for anyone, it's just virtue signaling.
I left libertarianism the same as penn because of the nonsense since 2016, he has a point
This is hard to watch. He's an old man with insane thoughts. What use to be, is no more.
I was a long time Dem, then I switched to Libertarian,. then the Tea Party hit and I had to become an Independent.
...small-L or "stupid and immoral"? Nolan Chart coordinates? (You found the one person who cares...)
His argument that a guy with a gun not being allowed to kill people is reduction in freedom is wrong, its an increase in freedom taking him out because others would be free by taking him out.
I wish he was caught up on that terrible argument.
@Down with Corporate Amerika They take freedom from people not give it.
@Down with Corporate Amerika Guaranteed access to the Medical Industrial Complex increases the number of days worked by workers and profits corporations.
Being pro-vax but anti-mandate is perfectly consistent with libertarianism. I do wonder why he uses the one group that asked him to speak at a rally as a proxy for all libertarians. He has no way of knowing how representative that group was/is.
That the corporate press and its sympathizers present a strictly pro or anti view on vaccinations is propaganda through lying by omission. That is not how normal people think nor view things in life across the board. Every opportunity of choice that presents itself to an individual at any given moment is a tradeoff. The fact that record inflation and mandatory lockdowns occurred where at the same time the subsidized manufacturing of State funded vaccines also occurred was deliberate coercion with a first event giving credence to the second. Without the first event there is no scenario where the second follows, and coercion would not be viewed as preferable because it could have no reason to be presented in such a way.
That overarching narrative and bending towards it should answer in effect as to how, rather than why, he uses one group as proxy. It's framing, not inquiring.
It does seem to have become a very vocal group claiming the title of libertarian.
It doesn't matter who the president is. The system was designed to protect itself, so one man cannot change it.
One man could...but not with a servile gov-schooled population...so...maybe you're right depending on your meaning...
I will save y’all some time. It’s a two hour softball interview where a group of guys who, lean more towards Democrats than anarchists, take turns kneeling and eating the bs that each other defecates.
excellent!
NGL, I knew how it was going to go and decided to read the comments section instead. And I have not been disappointed xD.
It's fascinating to hear such pontificating from such a point of ignorance.
Such obvious strong minds being so wrong
Answer.....no
Vaccinated 5x and I lean libertarian. You never had the right to infect.
His example of the guy running through town shooting people, the answer actually was more freedom, freedom for everyone he’s shooting at to be allowed to carry and shoot back.
It was that moment I realized he actually thinks like a liberal
Yeah there's nobody running through town shooting people if the other people armed. I mean even though everyone hates cops, you never see a mass shooting at a police station xD.
Is ReasonTV still libertarian?
Nope.
Is ReasonTV
Not RetardTV
Not really, more like liberal with slight libertarian leanings.
Noooo ! For those who pay attention, pretty much from when he had the health scare, and became a vegan, he changed. And went to the left more and more.
Maybe all the soy got to him.....
Undiagnosed brain damage, maybe
Sounds like a scared old man. He's trying to assuage those feelings by trying to control others. If he can just do that, he can feel safe. Typical, and sad.
After listening to this I think Penn is like the smartest guy who still fully believes what is said on establishment media. { New York Times; CNN; MSNBC }
i dont really know anything about this boomer other than he did like magic tricks with that other guy, is he actually really smart? and if he still believes everything the establishment media is telling him after all the lies have been uncovered and incestuous relationship between media and politicians, was he ever?
Isn’t that an oxymoron?
@@pathacker4963 bigtime
I don't know why, but that reminds of the line from Dr. Manhattan, "The world's smartest man poses no more threat to me than does its smartest termite." The smartest guy who still watches CNN isn't much smarter than the smartest termite who still watches CNN lol.
Ironically my wife was watching an old episode of a show he showed up on yesterday and I told her, "yeah, kind of sucks that he's no longer a libertarian anymore."
Watching the episode with Doc Dixon outfoxing both Penn & Teller, and Doc using a libertarian joke that went right over Penns head....
I guess he was always just one bad cold away from collectivist authoritarianism.
You have a clip of that?
ruclips.net/video/0l8fWBQopNI/видео.html
Link? I've seen similar but this sounds worth watching...
@@barrydworak He always was! His shtick about being a contrarian was ALWAYS superficial and as an atheist libertarian activist he was never profound, always going after low hanging fruit. As a lifelong atheist I always disliked him.
The dude supported Gavin Newsom. Time to take away his libertarian card.
LOL...Nick goes authoritarian..."I'm gonna need you to step off to the side, over here, sir..."
His mask argument is kinda funny, one time I saw his show in Vegas and he did this whole thing on the TSA. Couldn’t you use all the safety arguments for mask for the TSA?
Yea he contradicts him self alot, definitely not a consistent libertarian
also, we are aware the common surgical masks and cloth are not really that effective for covid, right? and frequent touching of mask and face to adjust the mask is bad. n95 masks are great sure, but we dont have n95 mask mandates and probably dont even have the supply of them if we wanted to. and even if we could force 24/7 safe and effective n95 mask wearing its fine for people that want to do that, but there are many tradeoffs including social development of our most important demographic (children), use of unspoken language and microexpressions on the face, as well as the fact that masks were outlawed for good reason because it makes it harder to identify the person, as well as improper handling of masks, as well as the waste of masks which are made out of a plastic fabric, and using the mask as a visual cue to "othering" people
there are so many negatives that are not even considered, let alone the conflict with mandates and actual libertarianism
@@chrisjohnson-tn3gl all good points, which just goes to show you liberals are not that smart and they don't look into things.
Well, no. The TSA doesn't even reach the 12-20% effectiveness that masks had for the early COVID variants. If your argument is that something needs to be 100% effective to be justified, then you're the one who's kinda funny
@@ErdTirdMans 12 to 20%? Are you joking? Show the actual factual evidence of this or get out here with that non sense, covid is a tiny virus, doesn't matter the variant, they're all small, they can EASLY slip through the fabric of masks, masks are 99.5% infective.
These types of masks are to prevent airborne bacterial, fungal and allergens such as pollen from entering your lungs, not viruses!
Jesus...his political lens is that of a teenager, reminds me of my late teens.
there's an awesome Nolan chart meme that shows a yammerhead kid saying "I used to be a libertarian, then I became a post-modernist neo-marxist furry, then I became a republican, then I joined the SDS and became a social Democrat..." He's asked how old he is, and he says "14" ...and when you realize that many human brains are just plain idiotic and self-contradictory in exactly that way, a lot of the picture comes into focus
He's always been that way. I was quite involved in the atheist community in the 70s, 80s, 90s, 00s, and quit the atheist community because of the dominance of his kind of superficial "gotcha" atheism which was not improvement of society related, but self-aggrandising.
A magician is always just a trickster.
How did your teens die?
Libertarian =/= anarchist. Even Thomas Jefferson said “No man has a right to harm another” and government should restrain that man from doing harm
.
@electrictroy2010 Jefferson was a proto libertarian anarchist in the making for sure, if only more presidents had been like him....
I can't listen to his cope anymore. It makes me sad to see how far he will twist his ideals to justify his hatred of one man.
This is an amazing interview for all the wrong reasons.
We have a group of people who seemingly think they got it together, repeating objectively verifiable lies. (Trump/Mexicans) Penn has been an icon of reason and scrutiny for decades, yet is incapable of pursuing actual truth. This is not a defense of Trump, he has many flaws, but there is an antireality that "intellectuals" believe in that is shocking.
Even Penn's views on libertarianism is kinda wack.
This is wild and completely reveals that these (Penn was a hero of mine) people are not nearly as intelligent, or has it together, as we have been led to believe. I will give them credit for recognizing that Trump was less of a warmonger than previous admins.
Has it always been this way and we just never noticed?
Think about how Penn ends this off - He would rather have a "sane" person making bad policy decisions, for example killing innocent people in the middle east, than a "lunatic" making good policy decision, not killing people innocent people in the middle east.
There is never been a more antilogic position than that.
The voice of reason is now mute.
" He would rather have a "sane" person making bad policy decisions, for example killing innocent people in the middle east, than a "lunatic" making good policy decision"
That's actually the definition of Trump Derangement Syndrome. In 2020 many knew Biden was a disaster in the making but openly said they'd rather have him than Trump regardless of the policies each advocated.
It's also called cultural suicide.
That's what I'm saying. All they had to do was watch the full unedited videos for themselves. If they are that lazy then they deserve to be stupid.
It is scary isn't it. Because we also were once stupid, apparently. I'm starting to believe that it has always been this way. Trump's true legacy was teaching us that news, and even most history, is all fake. I now have to reevaluate everything I ever believed since I thought as was an intellectual college student, many years ago.
Penn was only touted as a "voice of reason" by his atheist/leftist comrades for obvious reasons.
George Orwell once said "There are some ideas so stupid only intellectuals believe them."
The concept of bad decisions coming from echo chambers is very understood in psychology today. It can lead a room full of intelligent men to all agree that launching the bay of pigs attack was a good idea, even though virtually every one of them realized how profoundly foolish and stupid it was years later.
A lot of people in show business are detached from reality, and have lost all sense of life for people as a result. It leads to much of what we see. The voice of reason is mute indeed...because we elevate the views of these people so disconnected from reality.
Penn wasn't an icon of science. He BELIEVED in the science, he's a trickster, which makes him no different than any other person of faith.
the short answer is no. the long answer is no he is not.
I'm a libertarian and I was pro mask and vaccine, but against a vaccine mandate. I think its fine for businesses to mandate it for entry. I don't really like Trump either. I don't feel like this makes me less libertarian.
I guess we can ignore how government coerced these companies to do their bidding, so Libertarians like you can talk about how it's all voluntary
@@usffan5775 i don't think the government should mandate companies to do it
@@holidaytrout5174 I don't mind a business doing what they want either. 100%. But when I recognize the strong arm pressure that government put on a majority of business to comply with covid madness, I start to side with Republicans like DeSantis who fought against mandates. This way, at least individuals can choose. It's not a perfect solution, but it's the only option we had
There's no distinction. Governments offloading authoritarianism onto businesses so as to remove pressure on themselves is plain dishonest.
#BanAllMandates
@@holidaytrout5174
So you think it’s fine for businesses , aka NON STATE ACTORS , to enforce vaccine compliance ?
So you are comfortable with someone who is NOT law enforcement , nonetheless requesting our papers and private medical records ?
Here in the West, we’ve worked very hard to have confidentiality enshrined in the law ( ie Patient and Doctor or Client and Lawyer privilege ) and have put a lot of effort into safeguarding access to medical records by those not authorized or entitled.
This changes now because of a short-lived bad respiratory illness ? 🤷♂️
Wow 😯!
Penn has never been a libertarian. He has always been a progressive atheist and tells anyone who will listen the same.
He's very much in the same line of libertarian as Gary Johnson basically a progressive by any other name.
@@michaelashby9654 there used to be before libertarians becams a 3 ring circus and were taken over by commies.
@@michaelashby9654 The foundation would be to maximize freedom and minimize government intrusion. Pretty simple really.
That being said there’s plenty of room left for a more right or left leaning worldview at the level of the individual, provided that everyone agrees to adhere to the aforementioned as much as possible.
Progressives on the other hand believe in stuff like centralized authority and the perfectibility of human nature through various forms of coercion.
So do conservatives for that matter, but nobody’s gonna call Gillette a conservative.
@@michaelashby9654 The trouble is libertarianism has come to be associated with Conservatism, which makes no bloody sense, since conservatism is historically the playground of authoritarian religious morality. The only "libertarian" aspect of conservatives is their general adulation of "free markets", further demonstrating their blindness to reality, because there's nothing "free market" about the capitalism we see in the Western World this century.
Our "capitalism" is ENTIRELY planned by billionaire commettees who price fix, supply fix, and they often spend more on marketing than product and research because they know that even demand is flexible, because human minds are highly groomable.
What the documentary Century Of Self to understand how feeble the human mind is in most people. ruclips.net/video/DnPmg0R1M04/видео.html
makes me like Penn even more. I would say that masks should have been and should be required when you have a communicable illness as a social standard whether its a cold, the flu covid. the point is that you are doing what you can to not spread it to others. As for the vaccine I agree with him on that for the private sector, the public sector has a responsibility to look out for the general (which welfare. I wasn't shocked by people calling themselves libertarians in the US that came out against vaccines and masks since its its been passed off as a conservative-lite ideology when that is inaccurate, libertarianism is about valuing individual liberty, and that liberty can only happen in an egalitarian setting which is the cornerstone of left wing ideology and why people like Stalin and Mao betray those values by creating a hierarchy that enforces equality through right wing structure. On the point about the US not being the center of attention anymore on the world stage, its something that we should have learned 30yrs ago if not before. 5 people have gotten to the presidency without the consent of the voter but the consent of the state legislators(that no one ever seems to like) through the electoral college and that EC vote can override the vote of the people, that is why the Electoral college should be done away with. the argument from tariffs is different from the left than on the right, on the right its about the foreign country undercutting American business(because they view America as inherently superior) whereas on the left its these people are exploited in authoritarian countries to produce in factories with no labor standards or representation government to address that concern, so its competing on an uneven playing field
Penn and Teller should be running. Not RFK or Trump; Penn & Teller!
Jillett never has demonstrated an academic argument. Just his opinion or interpretation.
Would you call him an academic? He literally graduated from Clown College. XD
@@darthsmolin ah yes haaa. True 👍. I forgot about that 😅
Who cares?
Oh Reason, how you have fallen.
Stick with magic Penn.
If Penn believes that women should have bodily autonomy regarding abortion why does he believe that bodily autonomy doesn’t apply when it comes to vaccines? Last I heard Penn didn’t believe that people should be able to choose what drugs they could put in their bodies and that vaccines should be mandated. This is strange because when discussing bodily autonomy he seems to forget that there is another body involved when it comes to abortion. So who’s bodily autonomy does he think abortion protects?
I wonder if people in the comments realize that Milton Friedman acknowledged externalities (such as secondhand smoke) and argued for government intervention in those cases.
I've never heard someone say absolutely nothing so articulately.
I'm sure you have and just don't remember.
Other than yourself, no doubt ...
When given the option between Larry Elder and Gavin Newsom, he got on stage and campaigned with Gavin. I had the misfortune of living under the rule of that piece of trash from 2019 until a month ago. I don’t need to bother listening to any defense of Penn, his actions spoke louder.
Libertarians shouldn't be voting for either one
@@tommyanomaly6193 shocking…. the no real libertarian argument. Yeah I’ll take the man who talks about Thomas Sowell and Walter Williams being his biggest influence over any of the 20 something other people that put their names on the ballot, especially considering that Elder was the only one with the name recognition to actually to have a chance at winning.
@@tommyanomaly6193 Libertarians should be taking after the ideas of Hoppe, where gaining political traction at the local level and then privatizing services that way where a political approach is opted for by liberty-minded people and communities. It's merely binary thinking to only view the act of voting as how its is promoted and packaged to be within a strict system.
@Manish Mims And it isn't Elder either.
@@frankiel3767 How so?
Penn is no longer the capable critical thinker he used to be. Like Chomsky, age has not been kind the parts of his mind that do logic and reason independently. Following those mistakenly held in esteem is what's left for both of them. Oh well, c'est la vie.
Ken Hiett, you should forget about Noam Chomsky, he never was reasonable. He’s an apologist for Pol Pot. Look up Thomas Sowell.
@@robfromvan How’s he a Pot apologist?
@@robfromvan As a conservative minded Libertarian, I don't agree with Chomsky or Penn politically. I mentioned Chomsky specifically because he wrote Manufacturing Consent, which is an excellent representation of the propagandistic U.S. media, regardless of his political ideologies. He of all people should know better, but he was still captured by the media lies regarding Covid.
Here's the tell: "I get scared". Fear is the realm of the statists and control freaks: its what they sell, knowing you [if buying in] will give them more power to "make it stop" - a moment that is almost never produced. Anyway, he'll make up his own mind as always. If I could point one thing out it is that fear and faith cannot occupy the same space at the same time. As we all get older, that sometimes helps sort out a few things.
@@kenhiett5266 not to mention that the entire news media is on the side of the political left so they always spin it from that side; I know he did that documentary but it’s hard to take it seriously when he appears to just spout propaganda himself. He’s an apologist for Pol Pot after all, and other leftists who killed a lot of people, just because they “meant well.”
Who cares?! Trump is not a libertarian. And him voting for Newsom, that says enough
All of the big atheists I grew up listening to, and who I thought looked at things objectively and rationally, all ended up basically going insane. None of these people exist in reality any more since trump happened.
I guess they didn't worship God, but they certainly had a lot of faith in whatever comfortable collective mirage ended in 2016.
I guess we all worship something, whether we choose to see it or not.
Atheists are intellectual light weights to begin with
Makes sense since atheism is a fundamental component of all communist dictatorships
I wished we discussed this more.
There are two types of atheists: people who never had faith, raised faith-free (very few of us) and people who rebelled against their religious parents (who still have religious values to a great extent, like on morality, but reject god and some conservative religious views).
Socially, there have been two generations of atheist activism: early activism which was secularist (separation of church and state, legal battles against religion in schools, on money, in business), à la Madelyn Murray O'Hare, and Gnu-atheism, the showy celebrity naval-gazing atheists who made up the "four horsemen of atheism" crowd, who rarely did the legal battles, they were more interested in low-hanging branches and lazy "gotcha" moments, as the early content creators they were, repping for their income and followers.
Chris Hitchens was the last worthy atheist activist
As for the magician crowd, they are tricksters, never understood why anyone adulates them.
Everyone believes in God. They just call Him by a different name, Science, Love, Hashem, Money etc.
One cannot be butt buddies with Gavin Newsom and be a libertarian
I think Penn sounded reasonable as fuck. I don't neccesarily agree with everything he said but it was all very reasonable. I don't think the comment section is right to rip on him.
As a atheist math obsessed biologist-epidemiologist-adjacent, I can assure you that none of his science positions are reasonable. He has always been a faith based lazy activist, only interested in naval gazing, never actual truth.
You die a hero, or live long enough to become a villain.
Penn always was a villain
I don't hate Trump, although he was a little embarrassing at times, no biggie. Trump is pure awesomeness to have gotten anything done at all. Imagine being President and blockaded on all sides. That was his Presidency and he still kicked some ass.
Could never stand this guy... now it is more clear why.
I will always appreciate Penn's honesty, I care less about his conclusions being the same as mine than his willingness to say what he thinks.
PENN was very disillusioned by Trump because he thought Trump was truly dumb. Penn thought the president should lead by example & wear a mask on tv
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None of them appear to claim they are libertarian but they spend a lot of time talk about libertarian: strange
His relevancy has faded.
Penn swallowed the Bull$hit.
Penn just got full of fear and bitter
Three pseudo libertarians talk about being pseudo libertarians
Completely missing the point that most people made, which was that you should have the independent right to choose what to put in your body, not that nobody should ever get it the vaccine. Completely different views.
To be fair, I saw a lot of libertarians throwing insults at anyone who got a Covid vaccine.
@@annekeckler8479 only the ones that made it a big deal.
My body my choice, until it's not my body xD.
Worst cases of TDS I've heard in a long time. Seek help!
It is so pathetic.
I don't think we should ban the word "evil", because that word is a strong indicator of the speaker's capacity for rational discussion.
Instead we should ban the use of words based on their reputation instead of their meaning.
The word "toxic" for example is being used in place of "evil" because it sounds more clinical, and the people who use it have adopted it to hide how irrational they are.
Can't associate with something he never was to begin with..
Canpaigns for Gavin Newsom: “I’m still a libertarian!” Yeah. Ok…
Newsom is highly respected . What is wrong with that?
Makes more sense than libertarians for Trump. California does have legal weed, abortion rights, and supports freedom of movement compared to Republican states. If he was pro gun, I would suck that man's penis.
On masks, it's not a matter of 'I shouldn't be forced to wear one to protect others,' it's a matter of 'no one should be forced to wear one to protect me, and as a natural result that extends to me as well.' I choose to wear a mask around those who ask me to, because I respect them. I chose to wear masks with pithy slogans when I was compelled to wear them, because the words on the mask were a protest of the mask mandates.
It's ridiculous to perform something that is meaningless and counter to evidence.
@@tallard666 Yes. No compromise. Peterson is shaping up to be a good celebritarian...but they will always let us down...
I became a Libertarian around 2012 after leaving the Republican party. In part due to Penn being a Libertarian, I decided to look into Libertarianism. While I appreciate many aspects of Libertarianism, I do not like some of the associations with people that I find to be dangerous. I'm not talking about official party associations, but the embracement of Libertarianism by fringe groups. I don't see myself ever going back to being a Republican, or be a Democrat, but I am really more independent now. I'm sorry but Libertarians have no chance in national politics, which is a fault of the 2 party system. Therefore, until this wave of absolute nuttery of the GOP these days is defeated, I will have to vote Democrat to try to do my part in defeating this wave of stupidity. EVERYONE should be united in defeating this shit.
There's a difference between a libertarian and a Libertarian. The latter refers to people in the Libertarian party (which, FWIW, has changed since the Mises caucus, for the better IMO). The former refers only to people with the philosophy. There's a big difference. You didn't say otherwise or anything, but I wanted to point out your misuse of the capital L Libertarian.
As far as fringe groups adopting libertarianism, well, it is the ultimate celebration of individual liberties and minorities (and as Ayn Rand so astutely put it, the individual is the smallest minority), and fringe groups are small minorities. One can support the right for people to believe as they please and not support what they believe at the same time.
@@ArtofFreeSpeech
Without the clear and constant condemnation of these groups by the Libertarian party and the libertarians in it, I can't sign on to any part of it. I can't stop them from thinking their bullshit, but I can insist on societal isolationism.
@@MusicGunn You can condemn the groups, but still not condemn their right to free speech. They're not the same thing, which is what I was saying. For instance, I abhor both the KKK AND Antifa equally, but I would support both of their rights to free speech. The people in the Mises caucus HAVE condemned hate groups on both sides, and they STILL support the rights of these groups to free speech. Just which group, specifically, have you found saying they're capital L libertarians?
@@ArtofFreeSpeech
It isn't just one group, but take White Christian Nationalism. Also, this isn't about free speech. No one can take that away from them, with some limits. What you may not understand is that every right has limits. Free speech has its limits too. Example: You can yell fire in a crowded theater and if no one gets hurt in the panic that follows, you will most likely not face charges, if someone dies, you could and should face charges. Speech that endangers others lives, is not and should not be protected by the 1st Amendment.
White Christian Nationalism and their agenda of hate is a threat to society, if you do not see that then I suggest you open your eyes.
@@MusicGunn I can't find anything linking WCN and the Libertarian party. I also don't believe White Nationalism is any kind of major threat to the U.S., but by that I mean I don't believe the tiny fringe groups like the KKK are serious threats. This leads me to ask, however, when you say White Nationalist, are you referring to KKK like groups? Or are you referring to Western Culture in general? That is, are you one of those who claims we live in white supremacist patriarchal capitalist society and that Western society is a problem and inherently racist, etc...? Or are you referring to the tiny fringe hate groups?
Cringe.
This interview was sad.
He said it in the beginning.
"It's not logical, it's emotional"
Can someone please explain to these obviously learned people that believing abortion to be murder is irrelevant to ones position on choice! You can believe in both. If the world stopped mixing issues and talking about them as if they are one and the same, there would be less arguing and more doing! There is no mutual exclusivity here...
Its that old adage, I don't agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it. I might or might not agree with abortion, but it is a woman's right to decide. I would have used the phrase "I believe in a woman's right to decide", but it soundeed really weird when I read it back to myself. What do I mean? Well, I would be like saying "I believe the bicycles have two wheels"... How can you not believe in a fact?
I can’t get over how they are ranting on about Trump so much, at a time of the current Wreck that in the White House now.
"it's all emotional" 🙄 I'm still waiting for a legit argument.
Why do we never hear from Teller? 😂
Probably doesn't have much to say.
Teller is smart enough to keep his mouth shut and take the money.
He should do a podcast... 45 minutes of silence.
He played the father of Amy on the big bang theory, several episodes, a handful of lines. Also showed up (and spoke several lines) in one of the atlas shrugged series of episodic movies.
Penn's mask support is built on false analogy "no masks equals drunk driving". It's not. The analogy for drunk driving is walking around while infected. I believe most reasonable people would agree that requiring masks for INFECTED PEOPLE is fine. But mask mandates apply to all people, most of them healthy. It would be like requiring those breathalyzer sensors to be put in every car, truck, bicycle, motorcycle, and scooter. That's not even touching the "effectiveness on masks on Pacific beaches" thing which is a story of ScienceTM on its own.
Obviously, a guy who supports Newsom is not a libertarian, and everyone who said "Elder is worse" is not libertarian either, because that person puts you into false dichotomy situation prevalent in American politics. The guy who got the third place during the recall election (Paffrath) was way more libertarian than Elder and, obviously, Newsom.
These guys seem to me to be totally clueless.