Keep in mind that after getting back the car from the shop, you should grandma-drive (no engine braking, RPMs below 3k) this car for about 1k miles and change the oil afterward. This is a regular procedure, no matter if the car is brand new or just engine-rebuilt. If you don't do that, you can limit engine lifespan even by more than half. Nevermind, you mentioned it at the end
I absolutely disagree - you need to bed the rings into the bore immediately on new engines. The fine tolerances on modern components means that the cylinders are only very lightly honed giving a very short window of running time to bed the rings into the cylinder bores. Agree on the oil change after a couple of 100 miles as the oil effectively cleans out any dwarf from the ring bedding process. The rings and cylinder bores are the only components that run without a protective layer of engine oil in the engine and there is no reason to grandma drive it. Also if there is an issue with the engine rebuild you want to find it ASAP!
@@markraumer2336 You are off a bit with your statement there, If rings and pistons didn't have oil between the cylinder bore and pistons and rings, the engine would eat itself. 👍🏼
@@EugVR6 Oil does splash onto the cylinder walls during the rotation of the crankshaft - it essentially slings oil onto the cylinder walls . Some engines have oil squirted that are designed to cool the underside of the pistons- and some of this oil ends up on the cylinder walls. However the oil control rings and oil scraper ring remove most of this oil from the cylinder wall. A small amount of oil is retained in the cross hatching on the cylinder walls but this is nothing like the 50 to 70 psi of oil that is fed into the main bearings, big end bearings and cam bearings. The rings need to bed into the cylinder walls to give good compression and that is why they are made of hard metal like chromium. Bearings are made of very soft materials as they operate in an cushion of oil. Run the engine in properly - keep the revs down but make sure you put the engine under load - engine breaking is actually very good for this process.
You are so right, it is clearly way more common than they have anyone to believe! It’s terrible, hopefully this will correct their mistake and make the car live on!
Dont let anyone tell you it is not worth it if you love the car. In the US i am almost spending as much on my motor job for my 996 as i spent on the car. Hey i love the car and when i get it back it will be bulletproof and have much more power. I cant stand new cars with all the electronics. Cars from this era are the sweet spot for sports cars in my opinion. Power is way overrated these days. Power doesn't make a car fun!
That is exactly it. The car is worth more to me than £££ plus Porsche car do have a tenancy to creep up in value or at least hold value. Either way I am never going to lose as much money as buying a new car.
@@JoeTalksCars Yessir. Excited for you. My car is out for its motor job now as well so i am sittimg and waiting too. Fortunatley winter is approaching here so mine will be away while the weather is poor. Next spring will be exciting to get it out with a fresh motor!
Cool that you're showing the whole repair process. It might be shocking to witness it firsthand, but the problems that cause and caused by bore scoring compound on each other harshly and lead to exponential increase in the rate scoring. By the time it gets to ticking and oil guzzling the engine is close to failure. PCA has a great vid all about cylinder linings and bore scoring.
Yeah I was close to a total failure speaking to the garage! I should have stopped driving as soon as it started to sup oil! Never mind, nearly time to collect it again! Will be like a new car day.
Regarding how to drive the car initially once you get it back, the last thing that you should be doing is grandma-driving it. Any new vehicle that I have had, and I've had a few, is once they're are warm, drive them at least normally with regular changes of revs. When cold starting, don't sit there to warm the engine up, but get moving as soon as the oil has circulated and keep the revs down for the first few miles. I'm sure the workshop, who are Porsche experts will advise you on the correct procedure though. Running any engine too slow will end up with a poor performing engine that burns oil.
Long runs, yes and varying revs, so the engine gets to run at different speeds to properly bed in over the rev range. As long as you don't flog it, once the engine is warm it can be driven almost as you would normally, but we don't really have to baby new engines anymore. Anyhoo, get back to us when you pick the car up, it will be interesting to hear the the shop says.
Really painful Joe but fascinating to watch this episode. Mine’s done 53k🤞…will I have this to come? Who knows🤷🏻. Thanks so much for sharing this nightmare. Soon, all will be even more fun than before…plus, it’s a sure fire investment if you do want to sell in future.
Yeah it’s genuinely worrying, I was probably super unlucky tho! Fortunately the values are creeping up and this makes rebuilding all that bit easier to cope with.
You deserve the subscribers Joe, your videos are very interesting and relateable. Good format, humble, honest delivery. Look forward to hearing of the results once its rebuilt! Yeah there will be a big bill, but if you love the car then it's worth every penny! Enjoy!!
it's not unusual to replace an oil pump when rebuilding an engine. and BTW, that engine looks like it had suffered some kind of oil starvation on a regular basis. so basically it looks like you're getting new pistons, rings, connecting rod bearings and crank bearings. you didin't mention what they are going to do about the scoring in the bores though. will they bore them out to oversized? put in new liners? if so, they'll have to do all six them in the same way. fortunately, the heads look like they can probably just be cleaned up.
@@JoeTalksCars so new liners. oil pump. new bearings all 'round. new rings, new pistons and timing chain and associated bits and bobs. IMO, good choice to not get into performance mods. the S doesn't need them.
How many miles had the car done? Sorry missed that bit. I am seriously thinking of getting an older Porsche, but the bore scoring is too much of a red flag
Well done on the 1k subscribers! Also really appreciate the update, yes it’s going to cost a big chunk of money but if you love the car then that’s all that matters.
Nice to have a update. When I did my service and lots of repairs they had to do the tracking again and I only did it a couple of months earlier and now fitted two rear tyres and require tracking again they say. So these little jobs just add up as well. If you love your car then how can you put a price on it, but you seem to be very sensible and rational so I feel you know the limits of how much to spend before it gets ridiculous. Congratulations on reaching 1k subscriber- not too sure where I was, but must of been on of your first few hundred
I had not thought about that. Assuming new manifolds on one of these is £££££ I’m trying to keep the cost as low as I can. I will ask the question tho as sometimes these jobs are all about the labour and as the engine is out it could be a good move.
@@JoeTalksCars I had my engine rebuilt and they put Titanium bolts in the manifold. It’s easy to take off after and change if you can’t afford it now. Although mines a 911 I assume it’s just as easy to remove yours
Just subbed ;-) ... I have a late '06 Cayman S 6 speed that I bought with 61k miles... I too am suspecting bore score! It's now on 70k miles & has been blue smoking on start up for a while... Smoke clears once up to operating temp! ... Uses a fair amount of oil too... I'm going to buy a bore scoping cam & do the basic bore scope via the spark plug holes with the pistons at BDC & see whats occuring... I already changed the AOS & it made zero difference! ... I'm pretty sure I have scoring from the symptoms but am thinking of going the Hartech route for a lump refresh?
Yeah it doesn’t sound good does it? I too changed my AOS and although when they took it off it looked to have failed I think it was masking the problem of bore score. I think bore score on these cars is far more widespread than forums would have you believe.
48000 miles on the engine. This seems to be an awful lot of wear on an engine that’s basically only just run in. Did you ever speak to Porsche about this?
Are you speaking of the bore scoring, or some other issue visible from the pictures? the bore scoring has been well known by Porsche and most others in the community for about a decade--It's a flaw of this engine.
@@jeffreyroberts7438 According to Jake Raby, who's often cited as an expert on this, yes. He says: "A common consensus among owners is “my car runs so well, and it has low miles, so this can’t be cylinder scoring”. Wrong. We actually see this failure occur to more low mileage cars than high mileage cars, as the running clearances remain tighter, which actually adds to the condition. That may not make sense to you, but after you’ve seen several hundred cases, and have researched this failure with trend data, and direct experience for more than 15 years, it would. If the engine is running too long with this degree of damage, the scoring will lead to cylinder cracking, and ultimately a completely different level of failure. This failure will then be deemed “D- chunk failure” where the cylinder literally breaks, allowing coolant to flood the engine internals. When the cylinder breaks mechanical damage is extensive, and collateral component damage is great. Put simply- you don’t want that to happen to you." Video of this can be found here: ruclips.net/video/iK2gSZL4h8M/видео.html
I did but those pistons (larger ones) are even more expensive and tbh I doubt I would feel the difference in capacity anyway. Wanted it to be a standard but working car.
I am thinking of buying one of these cars and will make a choice based upon this kind of info. Thanks very much! If it costs $10K or so then I might move forward.
Look for a gen 2 car. Consider the gen 1 2.7 and you will be fine. I have to say unless you are ok with the risk avoid the 987.1 3.4. The risk isn’t worth it in my opinion.
What's to stop the problem returning? You don't want to be doing this every five years. I love the look of the Cayman. It seems like you can get a lot of car for not a lot of money but the issues you describe have me concerned. Thanks.
Nothing I suppose. In theory it will be fine, just in the same way there are theories as to why it won’t, steel liners are surly better than standard. That with yearly services and higher weight oil should mean I’m minimising the risk.
Oh my God Joe. That's a lot more than I thought. I had all along about 7 grand in my head. Anyway its fixed now, so the very very best of luck going forward. Hopefully from here on it will be just a yearly service and no more grief.
@@pattiboychannel311 the car I am watching was 25k three months ago, he dropped the price to 22400 at beginning of the month. I will get it at 20k, if it’s still there 🤞🏽
Base models are a lot less prone to stuff like this! Not sure if the prices will drop tho. They have been going nuts lately and no sign of slowing. The 2.7 and 2.9 are the pick of the range!
@@JoeTalksCars yea and the owne has had the car for 5 years, tons of records, beautiful condition, but absolutely NO OPTIONS!!! But I would rather have a great running car than all or some options
@@JoeTalksCars Hi, I actually saw your latest video where you discuss the bill and pricing. I am really gutted for you. I have a 997.1 and I’m tired of living in fear, it’s like having a grenade in the engine, might go off, might not. I’ve just traded it in for a newer 991. Not what I wanted to do but I can’t cope with the sword of Damocles hanging over the back of the car, will it / won’t it... Great videos, good content, well done and I will continue to watch, I am a new subscriber :-)
I've heard that these horizontal engines are notorious for bore scoring. I assume that is from the piston resting on the bottom of the cylinder. That looks much worse on those 3 cylinders, especially 5 and 6, than I would have imagined. I guess you did not buy this car new so it seems related to dirty oil which was not kept changed. Something got in those cylinders to score them that bad. Good luck with it and I hope you can pay the bill! Lol
It is bad isn’t it. It’s only covered 48k miles, serviced by Porsche for each one and used the recommended oil. I just don’t understand how Porsche got it so wrong. Hopefully this will sort it out for good:)
I have read that bore scoring is more common in 996, 997 models fitted with the 3.6 and 3.8 engine. Also the 3.4 engine fitted to the Cayman S and Boxster S, and would like to know why that is when apparently the 2.5, 2.7 and 3.2 Boxster and Boxster S engines are not known to suffer from bore scoring, any ideas?
I have heard it’s due to the 3.4 being a bored out version of the 2.7. Makes it weaker. There are so many theories online. Never know what to believe. All I do know is the 2.7 cayman is probably the one to go for. For peace of mind at least.
@@JoeTalksCars There is some talk that cast piston don’t generally have a scoring problem. When Porsche went to forged pistons the problem appeared., like on the 996!, Combined with the change in connecting rod to stroke ratio: 1.71:1 has a different angle with more piston dwell time at the bottom of the cylinder where the scoring starts
Many mechanics suggest changing oil frequently every 5k with proper weight and changing the oil air separator. I would also suggest a good fuel additive to prevent carbon build up over time, it has worked great on many of my German cars over the years.
Hi Joe, the view of the piston for me brings to mind an article by Hartec the Porsche engine builders in Manchester, in that article it states about how soft the bores on the 3.4 engine are, and things like the crank shaft only being surface hardened apparently, which isnt good because as the miles increase on the engine so does the wear on the crank…..the bores wear in an elliptical fashion Im told, like you I really loved my 3.4 Porsche Cayman S Sport Ltd Edition, personally I just wasn’t prepared to prop up Porsches poor manufacturing quality……by throwing thousands into an engine re build…….Porsche should be a responsible manufacturer, these cars should be the subject of a recall action regardless of age…….I spent 10k on my Porsche propping it up because of poor quality parts…..i kept saying to myself wtf this is a Porsche why is this happening………
I just wish that Porsche did compensate for the problem but they never will. Such a shame as the car is absolutely perfect other than the engine issue.
Porsche at the time of 987.1 were almost bankrupt, personally speaking this I think is evident poor quality Nav and Tech, water leaks through the door cards, I replaced the electronic dampers, the list was endless I accumulated 41 invoices in the first 6 months….spending 10k on bringing the car up to spec…..without engine work….the 987.2 has a different engine……and the 981….shows Audis influence with commonality of parts……
Can't believe that Porsche effectively sold cars from 1996 to 2009 knowing they had some serious design flaws and took no ownership of the problems, these issues should be done by Porsche foc
Hey Joe, thanks for sharing the pics, really interesting to see the scoring up close. Will you be having the the IMS upgraded whilst the engine is out? Keep up the good work.
Thanks for the comment, the RMS is getting changed but not the IMS. This car is a late 2006 and has the upgraded bearing fitted from factory. It’s cars pre 2006 that’s need to be careful.
I was toying between those cars also. Went for the Porsche after driving it. They really do get you in the end. Special special cars, I am a TT fan tho, performance wise they are in a different world. Good luck on the search!
Brilliant pictures. With so many cowboys out there its great to see photos of the problem from your garage and restores my faith somewhat in people. Hope you get it sorted, its a beautiful car.
Just seen this great video and what a difference in understanding of the issues, when you have the engine out and pictures of what has happened. Hope that there are not any more hidden issues to deal with and you get the car back to full working order. Just a quick question, are you going to have the IMS bearing replaced now the engine is out?
@@JoeTalksCars It's a lot and it's horrible but I expected worse to be honest. The 987.2 are still quite a bit more than a 987.1 + rebuild. Maybe it's worth the gamble. Still cheaper than carbon ceramic breaks.
Hi Joe really good informative vid as always, have just had all this done on our T5 transporter and it run like a dream 3000miles in and not used a drop of oil but would of normally used about 3lts.think. The car is worth it as what else would you buy to replaceable it? i am looking at that at moment and a 997.2 is £45/50k and not a lot faster so thinking about a 3.9 in the CS even if it costs £20k its a lot cheaper. Hope i can still have one of your old pistons to add to my collection. good look with the subscribers and hope it goes towards funding the rebuild. Dean
Of course you can. Especially as I am gonna have 3! Why did the T5 need doing? That’s odd isn’t it? Would love a 991 Turbo S☺️ that is the dream right there!
@@JoeTalksCars the T5 used oil same as yours but nobody really fixes them, just keep adding oil then the head gasket went at 140k so bit the bullet and had it all done. so now got a 2.5 with 5x steel liners and new pistons, new crank shells and camshaft and refreshed auto box, so should be good for another 140k.
@FLATSTICK250 Just had a thought, now I am monetised there is an option for donations on the video pages. I am not after money for the pistons but a small donation to cover postage would be ideal. Also if you email me your address I shall send it out as soon as I get the pistons back:)
@@JoeTalksCars Hi Joe thats fine, how do i send you my email and the postage? Are you on twitter? Just watched wheeler dealer where they have just done a gen1 997 was reallygood Dean
Keep in mind that after getting back the car from the shop, you should grandma-drive (no engine braking, RPMs below 3k) this car for about 1k miles and change the oil afterward. This is a regular procedure, no matter if the car is brand new or just engine-rebuilt. If you don't do that, you can limit engine lifespan even by more than half.
Nevermind, you mentioned it at the end
This is what I would have thought but will check with them on how I should drive it to ensure it is fine and doesn’t score again!
I absolutely disagree - you need to bed the rings into the bore immediately on new engines. The fine tolerances on modern components means that the cylinders are only very lightly honed giving a very short window of running time to bed the rings into the cylinder bores. Agree on the oil change after a couple of 100 miles as the oil effectively cleans out any dwarf from the ring bedding process. The rings and cylinder bores are the only components that run without a protective layer of engine oil in the engine and there is no reason to grandma drive it. Also if there is an issue with the engine rebuild you want to find it ASAP!
@@markraumer2336 You are off a bit with your statement there, If rings and pistons didn't have oil between the cylinder bore and pistons and rings, the engine would eat itself. 👍🏼
@@EugVR6 Oil does splash onto the cylinder walls during the rotation of the crankshaft - it essentially slings oil onto the cylinder walls . Some engines have oil squirted that are designed to cool the underside of the pistons- and some of this oil ends up on the cylinder walls. However the oil control rings and oil scraper ring remove most of this oil from the cylinder wall. A small amount of oil is retained in the cross hatching on the cylinder walls but this is nothing like the 50 to 70 psi of oil that is fed into the main bearings, big end bearings and cam bearings. The rings need to bed into the cylinder walls to give good compression and that is why they are made of hard metal like chromium. Bearings are made of very soft materials as they operate in an cushion of oil.
Run the engine in properly - keep the revs down but make sure you put the engine under load - engine breaking is actually very good for this process.
Plus, it’s a disgrace that Porsche allowed this design flaw to happen, considering all their engineering prowess of the past🤯
You are so right, it is clearly way more common than they have anyone to believe! It’s terrible, hopefully this will correct their mistake and make the car live on!
Dont let anyone tell you it is not worth it if you love the car. In the US i am almost spending as much on my motor job for my 996 as i spent on the car. Hey i love the car and when i get it back it will be bulletproof and have much more power. I cant stand new cars with all the electronics. Cars from this era are the sweet spot for sports cars in my opinion. Power is way overrated these days. Power doesn't make a car fun!
That is exactly it. The car is worth more to me than £££ plus Porsche car do have a tenancy to creep up in value or at least hold value. Either way I am never going to lose as much money as buying a new car.
@@JoeTalksCars Yessir. Excited for you. My car is out for its motor job now as well so i am sittimg and waiting too. Fortunatley winter is approaching here so mine will be away while the weather is poor. Next spring will be exciting to get it out with a fresh motor!
I reckon after all the work is done and the car comes home. You will keep it for the rest of your life.
I bet you are right! I wouldn’t complain about that tho. 3.4 engines are going to slowly die out.
You love the car, so it is worth the money :)
That’s exactly it. It’s not sensible from a financial point of view but I suppose the values have gone up now so it’s less bad.
@@JoeTalksCars Best not think about the financial side of it, eh :)
@@prof_tim that’s the trick 🤣
It’s (probably) never going to add up, financially, but you’ll know it is sorted. Don’t think about it too much, just enjoy the car once it is fixed.
Cool that you're showing the whole repair process. It might be shocking to witness it firsthand, but the problems that cause and caused by bore scoring compound on each other harshly and lead to exponential increase in the rate scoring. By the time it gets to ticking and oil guzzling the engine is close to failure. PCA has a great vid all about cylinder linings and bore scoring.
Yeah I was close to a total failure speaking to the garage! I should have stopped driving as soon as it started to sup oil! Never mind, nearly time to collect it again! Will be like a new car day.
Regarding how to drive the car initially once you get it back, the last thing that you should be doing is grandma-driving it. Any new vehicle that I have had, and I've had a few, is once they're are warm, drive them at least normally with regular changes of revs. When cold starting, don't sit there to warm the engine up, but get moving as soon as the oil has circulated and keep the revs down for the first few miles. I'm sure the workshop, who are Porsche experts will advise you on the correct procedure though. Running any engine too slow will end up with a poor performing engine that burns oil.
Interesting. I was under the impression it’s low revs and nice long runs. I shall see what they say :)
Long runs, yes and varying revs, so the engine gets to run at different speeds to properly bed in over the rev range. As long as you don't flog it, once the engine is warm it can be driven almost as you would normally, but we don't really have to baby new engines anymore. Anyhoo, get back to us when you pick the car up, it will be interesting to hear the the shop says.
Congrats on 1k Subs..
Thank you! Gobsmacked I managed it!
Very interesting and looking forward to seeing the result! Best of luck with it. I'm sure you'll never want to sell it now!!
I probably never will! Can’t wait until it’s back now. It feels like forever!
The knocking is probably from the carbon/oil buildup causing detonation and not the scored cylinders.
Ah yeah that was probably it
Great video Joe. A unique insight into this issue. Good to see what the engine looks like stripped down. Good luck.
Thank you:) shame I couldn’t video it but to be fair that would have been hard to do anyway
Really painful Joe but fascinating to watch this episode. Mine’s done 53k🤞…will I have this to come? Who knows🤷🏻. Thanks so much for sharing this nightmare. Soon, all will be even more fun than before…plus, it’s a sure fire investment if you do want to sell in future.
Yeah it’s genuinely worrying, I was probably super unlucky tho! Fortunately the values are creeping up and this makes rebuilding all that bit easier to cope with.
You deserve the subscribers Joe, your videos are very interesting and relateable. Good format, humble, honest delivery.
Look forward to hearing of the results once its rebuilt! Yeah there will be a big bill, but if you love the car then it's worth every penny! Enjoy!!
Thank you!!! Really appreciate that! Can’t wait until it’s back! Feels like forever!
really bad. Sadly these cars are just not worth owning. Brilliant design but terrible engineering.
Couldn’t really argue with that. Love the car but they are so inherently flawed. Shame.
it's not unusual to replace an oil pump when rebuilding an engine. and BTW, that engine looks like it had suffered some kind of oil starvation on a regular basis. so basically it looks like you're getting new pistons, rings, connecting rod bearings and crank bearings.
you didin't mention what they are going to do about the scoring in the bores though. will they bore them out to oversized? put in new liners? if so, they'll have to do all six them in the same way.
fortunately, the heads look like they can probably just be cleaned up.
Really? That could be how it got so bad and so quickly!! Nah I forgot to mention! It’s just the same capacity but steel liners dropped in.
@@JoeTalksCars so new liners. oil pump. new bearings all 'round. new rings, new pistons and timing chain and associated bits and bobs.
IMO, good choice to not get into performance mods. the S doesn't need them.
How many miles had the car done?
Sorry missed that bit.
I am seriously thinking of getting an older Porsche, but the bore scoring is too much of a red flag
45k I think it had
Simply not interested in ever owning these cars
45K on the clock and £10K engine rebuild
Bore score should be a porsche warranty issue
Agreed! It’s a joke really
Hi Joe really pleased they have made a good start on your engine . Hopefully the cost does not spiral too much . Fingers crossed for you mate .
Fingers and toes crossed! They have made a fantastic start and this week it should be going back together
Well done on the 1k subscribers! Also really appreciate the update, yes it’s going to cost a big chunk of money but if you love the car then that’s all that matters.
Thank you:) can’t believe I got there to be honest! Love making videos on the car and sharing it. Love the car and can’t wait until it’s back.
Great car 987, my car is perfect S, very exciting car
I love mine despite these issues!
Nice to have a update. When I did my service and lots of repairs they had to do the tracking again and I only did it a couple of months earlier and now fitted two rear tyres and require tracking again they say. So these little jobs just add up as well. If you love your car then how can you put a price on it, but you seem to be very sensible and rational so I feel you know the limits of how much to spend before it gets ridiculous. Congratulations on reaching 1k subscriber- not too sure where I was, but must of been on of your first few hundred
Yeah prices can spiral on these cars, it is to be expected tho I suppose. Thanks for you support as always! You were easily one of the first 50!
@@JoeTalksCars wow 1st 50 that’s a surprise as the 1st 50 would be family and friends
You will have a new motor be 😊 happy.
Yeah and now it is running amazingly, even sounds better somehow.
Great to follow the rebuild. Have you thought about changing the manifolds whilst the engine is out if you plan to fit a sports exhaust?
I had not thought about that. Assuming new manifolds on one of these is £££££ I’m trying to keep the cost as low as I can. I will ask the question tho as sometimes these jobs are all about the labour and as the engine is out it could be a good move.
@@JoeTalksCars I had my engine rebuilt and they put Titanium bolts in the manifold. It’s easy to take off after and change if you can’t afford it now. Although mines a 911 I assume it’s just as easy to remove yours
Just subbed ;-) ... I have a late '06 Cayman S 6 speed that I bought with 61k miles... I too am suspecting bore score! It's now on 70k miles & has been blue smoking on start up for a while... Smoke clears once up to operating temp! ... Uses a fair amount of oil too... I'm going to buy a bore scoping cam & do the basic bore scope via the spark plug holes with the pistons at BDC & see whats occuring... I already changed the AOS & it made zero difference! ... I'm pretty sure I have scoring from the symptoms but am thinking of going the Hartech route for a lump refresh?
Yeah it doesn’t sound good does it? I too changed my AOS and although when they took it off it looked to have failed I think it was masking the problem of bore score. I think bore score on these cars is far more widespread than forums would have you believe.
48000 miles on the engine. This seems to be an awful lot of wear on an engine that’s basically only just run in. Did you ever speak to Porsche about this?
Possibly been driven too slowly with only short trips from day one. These cars need to be used and revved, that's what they are built for.
Are you speaking of the bore scoring, or some other issue visible from the pictures? the bore scoring has been well known by Porsche and most others in the community for about a decade--It's a flaw of this engine.
@@jarrodhaas but not after only 48000 miles! I have a 987 Boxster S
@@jeffreyroberts7438 According to Jake Raby, who's often cited as an expert on this, yes. He says: "A common consensus among owners is “my car runs so well, and it has low miles, so this can’t be cylinder scoring”. Wrong. We actually see this failure occur to more low mileage cars than high mileage cars, as the running clearances remain tighter, which actually adds to the condition. That may not make sense to you, but after you’ve seen several hundred cases, and have researched this failure with trend data, and direct experience for more than 15 years, it would. If the engine is running too long with this degree of damage, the scoring will lead to cylinder cracking, and ultimately a completely different level of failure. This failure will then be deemed “D- chunk failure” where the cylinder literally breaks, allowing coolant to flood the engine internals. When the cylinder breaks mechanical damage is extensive, and collateral component damage is great. Put simply- you don’t want that to happen to you." Video of this can be found here: ruclips.net/video/iK2gSZL4h8M/видео.html
Did you not go for making the cayman larger capacity to say 3.9? Since as though you were buying new pistons
I did but those pistons (larger ones) are even more expensive and tbh I doubt I would feel the difference in capacity anyway. Wanted it to be a standard but working car.
I am thinking of buying one of these cars and will make a choice based upon this kind of info. Thanks very much! If it costs $10K or so then I might move forward.
Look for a gen 2 car. Consider the gen 1 2.7 and you will be fine. I have to say unless you are ok with the risk avoid the 987.1 3.4. The risk isn’t worth it in my opinion.
What's to stop the problem returning? You don't want to be doing this every five years. I love the look of the Cayman. It seems like you can get a lot of car for not a lot of money but the issues you describe have me concerned. Thanks.
Nothing I suppose. In theory it will be fine, just in the same way there are theories as to why it won’t, steel liners are surly better than standard. That with yearly services and higher weight oil should mean I’m minimising the risk.
Oh my God Joe. That's a lot more than I thought. I had all along about 7 grand in my head. Anyway its fixed now, so the very very best of luck going forward. Hopefully from here on it will be just a yearly service and no more grief.
Fingers crossed! Can’t take another hit like that. Pained me to pay that much out but I love the car and will continue to enjoy it into next summer :)
I am looking at a car like that, 2008 Cayman base model, hoping the price drops another 2k!
I think the base models are OK
@@pattiboychannel311 the car I am watching was 25k three months ago, he dropped the price to 22400 at beginning of the month. I will get it at 20k, if it’s still there 🤞🏽
Base models are a lot less prone to stuff like this! Not sure if the prices will drop tho. They have been going nuts lately and no sign of slowing. The 2.7 and 2.9 are the pick of the range!
@@JoeTalksCars yea and the owne has had the car for 5 years, tons of records, beautiful condition, but absolutely NO OPTIONS!!! But I would rather have a great running car than all or some options
I hope that they check the IMS bearing, when the motor was taken apart.
Apparently If it’s worn out it can blow apart and destroy the entire engine.
Thankfully it was. Not common on pre 2006 cars also. ;)
So how much does it cost ??? You didn’t say
Latest video or second to latest I cover the bill but more than the 8k quoted 😞
@@JoeTalksCars Hi, I actually saw your latest video where you discuss the bill and pricing. I am really gutted for you.
I have a 997.1 and I’m tired of living in fear, it’s like having a grenade in the engine, might go off, might not.
I’ve just traded it in for a newer 991.
Not what I wanted to do but I can’t cope with the sword of Damocles hanging over the back of the car, will it / won’t it...
Great videos, good content, well done and I will continue to watch, I am a new subscriber :-)
I've heard that these horizontal engines are notorious for bore scoring. I assume that is from the piston resting on the bottom of the cylinder. That looks much worse on those 3 cylinders, especially 5 and 6, than I would have imagined.
I guess you did not buy this car new so it seems related to dirty oil which was not kept changed. Something got in those cylinders to score them that bad. Good luck with it and I hope you can pay the bill! Lol
It is bad isn’t it. It’s only covered 48k miles, serviced by Porsche for each one and used the recommended oil. I just don’t understand how Porsche got it so wrong. Hopefully this will sort it out for good:)
I have read that bore scoring is more common in 996, 997 models fitted with the 3.6 and 3.8 engine. Also the 3.4 engine fitted to the Cayman S and Boxster S, and would like to know why that is when apparently the 2.5, 2.7 and 3.2 Boxster and Boxster S engines are not known to suffer from bore scoring, any ideas?
I have heard it’s due to the 3.4 being a bored out version of the 2.7. Makes it weaker. There are so many theories online. Never know what to believe. All I do know is the 2.7 cayman is probably the one to go for. For peace of mind at least.
@@JoeTalksCars There is some talk that cast piston don’t generally have a scoring problem. When Porsche went to forged pistons the problem appeared., like on the 996!, Combined with the change in connecting rod to stroke ratio: 1.71:1 has a different angle with more piston dwell time at the bottom of the cylinder where the scoring starts
Many mechanics suggest changing oil frequently every 5k with proper weight and changing the oil air separator. I would also suggest a good fuel additive to prevent carbon build up over time, it has worked great on many of my German cars over the years.
Yeah I am going for regular oil changes and a weightier oil. Don't want a rescore now.
Manley actually was the supplier of pistons for Porsche!
Ahh right.
Hi Joe, the view of the piston for me brings to mind an article by Hartec the Porsche engine builders in Manchester, in that article it states about how soft the bores on the 3.4 engine are, and things like the crank shaft only being surface hardened apparently, which isnt good because as the miles increase on the engine so does the wear on the crank…..the bores wear in an elliptical fashion Im told, like you I really loved my 3.4 Porsche Cayman S Sport Ltd Edition, personally I just wasn’t prepared to prop up Porsches poor manufacturing quality……by throwing thousands into an engine re build…….Porsche should be a responsible manufacturer, these cars should be the subject of a recall action regardless of age…….I spent 10k on my Porsche propping it up because of poor quality parts…..i kept saying to myself wtf this is a Porsche why is this happening………
I just wish that Porsche did compensate for the problem but they never will. Such a shame as the car is absolutely perfect other than the engine issue.
Porsche at the time of 987.1 were almost bankrupt, personally speaking this I think is evident poor quality Nav and Tech, water leaks through the door cards, I replaced the electronic dampers, the list was endless I accumulated 41 invoices in the first 6 months….spending 10k on bringing the car up to spec…..without engine work….the 987.2 has a different engine……and the 981….shows Audis influence with commonality of parts……
Can't believe that Porsche effectively sold cars from 1996 to 2009 knowing they had some serious design flaws and took no ownership of the problems, these issues should be done by Porsche foc
A joke isn’t it. Clearly flawed from the off and still continued to churn them out. Gutted mine was an unlucky one.
@@JoeTalksCars making me wonder if the 982 cayman is affected ?
Hey Joe, thanks for sharing the pics, really interesting to see the scoring up close. Will you be having the the IMS upgraded whilst the engine is out?
Keep up the good work.
Thanks for the comment, the RMS is getting changed but not the IMS. This car is a late 2006 and has the upgraded bearing fitted from factory. It’s cars pre 2006 that’s need to be careful.
Keep up the good work . Very informative was thinking of buying one may now go for second best Audi ttrs
I was toying between those cars also. Went for the Porsche after driving it. They really do get you in the end. Special special cars, I am a TT fan tho, performance wise they are in a different world. Good luck on the search!
Brilliant pictures. With so many cowboys out there its great to see photos of the problem from your garage and restores my faith somewhat in people. Hope you get it sorted, its a beautiful car.
Thank you! Update tomorrow :)
Just seen this great video and what a difference in understanding of the issues, when you have the engine out and pictures of what has happened. Hope that there are not any more hidden issues to deal with and you get the car back to full working order.
Just a quick question, are you going to have the IMS bearing replaced now the engine is out?
Oooh I’m not actually sure. I will check with them. I understand the IMS is better in this year of car so much less of an issue than in earlier cars.
gutted for you to have to go through this, understand why you've done it though they're great cars. Hoping it doesn't happen to mine, good videos!
Thank you! Yeah its not what I ever imagined would happen. I was in denial for a long time! Nearly back now tho! Can't wait.
Should be driving better than ever when its back!
I know, hoping it will have a little more power.
How come you didn’t go for Hartec?
Strasse are a little closer to me and heard good things. Cost obviously came into it and Strasse are cheaper too.
@@JoeTalksCars ah fair enough - I’m up in the edge of County Durham, and I’m from Leeds so will be good to hear your feedback on them :)
I missed the rebuild price - only heard you mention the piston costs.
Oooh it was in a previous video. It’s between £5k and £6k so not cheap at all.
@@JoeTalksCars It's a lot and it's horrible but I expected worse to be honest. The 987.2 are still quite a bit more than a 987.1 + rebuild. Maybe it's worth the gamble. Still cheaper than carbon ceramic breaks.
first class video.
Thank you! It will be better when the car is back:)
Was this a 987.2 ?
Nooo a 987.1 3.4. The Gen 2 are largely unaffected unless they have lived a tough life
I must of missed it. How much did this rebuild cost you?
All will be revealed in a later video in a week. The quote was £5k-£6k tho!
@@JoeTalksCars Good to know! I thought a rebuild would be much more expensive that 5 to 6K.
How much oil was the car consuming?
About 1L per 200 miles maybe a touch more!
@@JoeTalksCars wow that is crazy!!!
Excellent progress
Yeah they have not done bad have they:)
Hi Joe really good informative vid as always, have just had all this done on our T5 transporter and it run like a dream 3000miles in and not used a drop of oil but would of normally used about 3lts.think. The car is worth it as what else would you buy to replaceable it? i am looking at that at moment and a 997.2 is £45/50k and not a lot faster so thinking about a 3.9 in the CS even if it costs £20k its a lot cheaper.
Hope i can still have one of your old pistons to add to my collection. good look with the subscribers and hope it goes towards funding the rebuild.
Dean
Of course you can. Especially as I am gonna have 3! Why did the T5 need doing? That’s odd isn’t it? Would love a 991 Turbo S☺️ that is the dream right there!
@@JoeTalksCars the T5 used oil same as yours but nobody really fixes them, just keep adding oil then the head gasket went at 140k so bit the bullet and had it all done. so now got a 2.5 with 5x steel liners and new pistons, new crank shells and camshaft and refreshed auto box, so should be good for another 140k.
@FLATSTICK250 Just had a thought, now I am monetised there is an option for donations on the video pages. I am not after money for the pistons but a small donation to cover postage would be ideal. Also if you email me your address I shall send it out as soon as I get the pistons back:)
@@JoeTalksCars Hi Joe thats fine, how do i send you my email and the postage? Are you on twitter?
Just watched wheeler dealer where they have just done a gen1 997 was reallygood
Dean
@@FLATSTICK250 drop me an email in the about part of my channel:) soon as I get the car and parts back il let you know how much postage:)
Curious if there is a break in period for your rebuild.
Lol. I typed question before finishing video!
Hope you get to drive it this year before weather changes!
🤣 I always do that. Gonna ask them about how to break it in. Not sure what I need to do.
@@JoeTalksCars likely drive a lot and keep it below 4,000 rpm! That is my guess!