Sort your real life consumables out for Wrath Classic now - Use my link or go to strms.net/WilleFactorSeptemberYT and use code POGWILLE130 to get $130 off across 6 boxes!
Difference between tbc and wotlk prep for me is a healthy lifestyle and working out ! I use a meal delivery healthy service similar to this one instead of the typical gamer junk food
I will never forget my first Karazan raid being a hunter in greens and blues. I got a whisper from a person I boosted through the DM a lot of times months ago pre TBC, "Hey want to raid Karazan? Our hunter didn't show up and we need one." I explained I would love to, but I never done it and I was in greens and blues and his answer "Doesn't matter we need a hunter to kite." and I got an invite and off I went, preforming the ancient mostly lost art of hunter kiting.
@@danmoore1427Nothing realy, the same thing happened to me, I was a mage and people thought they would need sheep, that never happened, but I got a place in the main roster because I was a good mage and a decent person.
Every zone in Outland is gorgeous. Blade's Edge*** Mountains, Hellfire*** Peninsula, and the Bone Wastes*** are meant to be a little dreary... ya know? The fact people love Zangarmarsh and Nagrand, the lush zones, so much means that the level designers did a great job designing the desolate regions of Outland. I'm also one of the few people who loves Terokkar Forest as well.
Just stopped half way through the video to let you know how enjoyable it is! Storytelling is on point as usual, and the images already feel nostalgic... keep it up!
It was such a fun ride, got to show 2 friends what wow was about, sadly life happens, only got to play through phase 1 tbc, but it felt so good to be back. specially returning and doing all the stuff in prepatch with them has been awesome again, reason I loved this game so much, but to be able to play with homies this time around, was so much better. Wrath is my last hurrah, wont do cata, but what a cool lil ride to go back on.
TBC feels like the coziest expanion to me. It's unfortunate private servers manage to deliver a better WoW experience. TBC feels better on most private servers.
Started watching you when classic released, ever since I've been looking forward to watching your new videos. You're currently the best wow creator by far, calming voice, interesting topics, good editing, what is there not to like. I could watch a video of you explaining how to cook potatoes and I wouldn't be bored.
I was in a dad guild called Salt on a PVE server. We were a chill group of skilled players with low competitive motivation and it was a great ride honestly. I agree with most of your analysis here. If you were lucky enough to be in a stable guild and were able to progress through all the content as it came out, it was a really fun time. Thanks to all my Salt friends! Loved the video Wille!
Damn, I just can't compliment you enough on your details you put in your videos Willie. I love how you did this review in steps right from the beginning. I pretty much agreed with you on everything, with the exception of group/raid wide buffs. As a pally main until TBC, it was a chore to buff everyone. I didn't mind it, but group/raid wide buffs made it much more easier and less time consuming for me. When TBC launched, I switched to my shammy, as enh was always one of my favorite specs, and in TBC, it got plenty of love. Unfortunately, this time around, I didn't get to pvp and raid as much as I would've liked to. In Original Vanilla and TBC, I was a young, single punk who didn't have much responsibilities. This time around on re-releases, I'm working full time and have a family to provide for, as do many of us who try play when we can. Anyways, I agree with pvp, it just didn't seem as fun as it did "back than." You touched on the exact points that made it difficult for me to enjoy it, catching up and trying to maintain as the game progresses. Another great upload, much appreciated on the details and honest feedback. It's nice to see these longer videos come out. I really like listening to them while I'm grinding some pre-patch honor. Only these past few weeks, I feel I've been able to enjoy pvp again, because the honor gain is greatly increased, making it easier for a casual dad player to try get gear before WOTLK officially launches. Cheers, Willie. Thanks for the upload.
By far my favourite Wow content creator, always get the urge to play again after watching one of your longer vids, nice to see Pyrewood Village is still going strong!
really hoping for Classic+ like Asmon has talked about: Vanilla WoW world + classic wrath talents and class design. Use this as a base to make new content.
lol as if it was asmon that came up with taht idea . Turtle WoW is a private server that is essentially a Vanilla+, it has custom content that continues the spirit of vanilla, addin new races, new zones, hundreds of new quests and spells/talents that follow the idea of WoW Vanilla
I could listen to your videos for hours. I'm quite pleased that Classic TBC was over 6 months earlier than the original release. It lacked the scope of the oringal classic WoW, and got quite boring quite fast. I took a break after phase 2, and came back when Sunwell opened, and I don't feel like i missed much. I also switched my main to a Ret Paladin, as my Guild needed one.
I will say on a personal level I'd have liked one additional month in Sunwell before the nerfs hit. My guild was so close to beating M'uru, and then the nerfs hit and we sleepwalked through it. Bit of an anti-climax end to an overwise great experience. And I hope Wrath gets a full 18 months. Considering there's more content, I really think it deserves it. Just over 4 months per tier seems decent, no (ideally, 4 of Naxx, 5 of Ulduar, 4 of ToC and 5 of ICC)?
thanks for the review willie! I became a father just before tbc launch and decided it was probably a good time to give wow a break. love to watch ur videos from time to time to see what i've been missing!
My guess is that wrath had the most players active ever, so that's why we're seeing so many people coming back. Also, a lot of people didnt stay for TBC due to the boost/pay to save character drama, and even MORE left after the scandal during the first months (investigation of sexual harassment and HR disaster). I saw so many just go away because of that
Solid video down memory lane. I share the sentiment of having enjoyed TBC, but I dont think I would play it again. Altho, after having played a geared warrior with double BL and a fully optimized group comp, that was probally some of the most fun raiding in a while
Tank main here - Threat was fun. Probably peaks with Fury Prot Warrior in Vanilla and gets a little less fun in TBC. Also big separation between good groups and bad groups as a result of threat being a mechanic. But, threat was fun at the top end.
Have to agree. Fun isn't just about pressing more different buttons, it also has to do with pacing fight rhythm, and being observant of other players. One thing I used to love about TBC was in pacing and timing of threat drops and DPS boosting cooldowns. From memory these sorts of things don't really matter in Wrath and beyond. DPS becomes more about a rotation on the keyboard than about pacing through the course of an encounter. Without threat mattering DPS becomes a lot more solipsistic.
@@Scarletpimpanel73 agreed. In Naxx 40 a good raid was really about rhythm. Having the hunter pull. Timing the Patchwerk packs. Doing the dance, bursting Mograine. Just gold when you were all on point.
I really share the sentiment of there being little reason to go out in the world outside of raiding. It really bothered me because I even found myself raidlogging for months.
I raid logged more in classic than tbc, world buffs really made it so playing in between raids was just not worth it - at all. At least tbc had flying, and dailies, and decent farms, and reps to grind. Classic had..............DM jump runs?
I don't understand this mindset. There was plenty to do outside of raids, you just didn't want to do any of it. Pvp, heroics, alt leveling, farming, new daily hubs with mounts like Netherwing, etc. There was stuff to do. If that isn't your bag, fine, then why get bothered by it?
@@Mr.Slaughter I had the same issues as the original comment PvP was something I never had an interest, if I did PvP then in the open world which didn't happen. Heroics are done after a while too with nothing to gain, yeah you could get more badges for god knows why Alt leveling I spent the most time on in TBC but I don't want that to be the case, I have a MAIN character for a reason that I want to play Farming is the most I could do with my main but Outlands is so ugly and small so that wasn't nearly as fun as in Classic or Wrath Daily hubs are good but not a feature where I think "Damn can't wait to log in and play!" but rather "I HAVE to do my dailies today!" I had such a blast with classic since Nostalrius and I also had a blast with Wrath in the past (retail + private servers) but I can't stand TBC, it is the ugly middle child in this scenario.
Some of the best times I had in TBC was during the down time between raids. Drunk farming primals to craft gear for new guildies or raid mats was fun as hell.
He touched on threat and agro management and as someone who main tanked all of Vanilla WoW, TBC, and beyond I can tell you that 90% of the prob with Vanilla was that as a Warrior's gear improved, his threat generation got worse. Most of the rage generated was from damage taken. So as you mitigate more, block 100%, etc etc. Your ability to hold a bosses attention diminished. I did not play the Classic relaunch but I assume it was about the same. It was about 3 years before TBC come out from WoW's launch and it got really bad in the last year. It was complaint #1 on warrior forums for a long time. It got to the point that you started to drop your rotation and let a boss crit you just so you could keep agro up. Which was dangerous because new content could two round you easy. TBC was a great improvement, other classes could tank, and they reworked the entire threat system. Anybody from the outside looking in could tell. But it all stemmed from one issue and it was not so obvious if you weren't the guild's punching bag. Threat output solely based on damage incoming. That system works fine until the day it doesn't.
As someone who never played either vanilla or tbc when they first released because i was too young, i gave both iterations of the game a shot and i just couldn't make myself like them because of just how much time is required from you to "complete" your character. I'm so looking forward to wotlk classic and leaving tbc behind once and for all, the qol changes i've seen so far in the prepatch have been amazing. Definitely playing way more this time around.
Once they are done though, they are done. You don't need to grind world quests, dailies and mythic+ chest gambling for infinity like retail. They are infinitely more achievable over time compare to the expected daily chores.
Biggest gripe about TBC was servers getting 100% abandoned by one faction or completely killed and being in a semi serious guild. The raid comp having to have 5 + shamans and a boomie a ret, feral etc was annoying.
I definitely agree with you, this expansion had some very high highs but it dipped quite a lot as well. As a more casual player I would've liked to play nerfed Sunwell for a bit before prepatch hit so that my dad guild would also be able to get further than Brutallus. Still, I did manage to kill KJ eventually and as a prot warrior main, maintanking Illidan was the highlight of my expansion for sure. Overall I liked TBC a lot less than Classic though. I would return to Azeroth but not to Outland.
sunwell was the only raid, besides vashj/kael that wasnt to easy. for sure, phase 3 lost a lot of its glory cause it was a joke in this state. i hate the prepatch nerf to all content
i absolutely adore how witty your comments are, especially the ones you made when explaining tbc aggro. your videos have so much character, useful info and insight. keep it up man
TBC was so much fun playing PVP the insane amounts of resil in wrath just kills the game completely for me. Will always remember my time in AB as a fire mage in classic and TBC I absolutely fucking destroyed kids. Going 45 kbs 100 kills and 0 deaths in AB is by far the best gaming experience I have ever had.
"your class gets utility added to become a valuable and wanted part of your raid group" rogues: " ... " "there weren't any meme specs" assassination rogues: " ... "
I had some fun in TBC classic. It was nice being able to play a feral druid without being lectured to farm a bunch of level 32 staves from Gnomeregan, and having my dps be viable. After a while though, the game atmosphere just felt...stale. Most people that played didn't talk much, minmaxed to hell and back, and it didn't feel like an adventure. Once I beat Illidan, I feel like I was able to complete the content I never got a chance to as a teenager, and was able to hang up the old WoW boots for a final time. I'd like to see a MMO that puts a brand new spin on the meta. Something that doesn't use the standard leveling system with the "grind to end game" mentality. I want a whole new world to explore, with something fun and exciting to see at every turn.
The only big criticism I have of classic and TBC is lack of Dual Spec. The inability to easily be specced for pvp or pve is 99% of the reason I didn't play much in both.
Totally agree. Committing to maining a healer, but not having tons of time to farm gold to switch specs, was just too daunting. Happily coming back to Wrath where I can dual spec.
I had so, so much fun in phase 1 of BC, more fun than I ever had in classic. But by the time phase 2 came out, my smaller server was dying, and the tier 5 content was honestly a huge slog and not fun at all for me (a tank). So I ended up quitting, and I really wish I had enough motivation to stick around for the other phases.
I didn't play the Classic re-releases, but when it comes to what I played the most back in 2005-2009, it would be vanilla and WotLK more than tBC. They should the best features of all three of those iterations of WoW to make a Classic+ with seasonal and hardcore/permadeath servers.
I had very fond memories and high expectations of TBC "fixing things", but after playing it and a few weeks of WOTLK pre-patch, I think classic vanilla was by far the best of the 3. Classes were unique and had huge strengths and brutal weaknesses. The world had organic reasons to go out in it, and it was reasonably dangerous due to no flying. Erratic/illogical itemization was actually a good thing. And player's damage and effects happened in discernable ways instead of a laundry list of procs, crit'able dots, and off-GCD macros. It needed 2 changes though: 1. World buffs only on DMF week, and DMF week is always delayed to land at least a few weeks after new raid content. 2. New or modified raids, but not in the way SOM did it. Need raids to be designed specifically to use the whole raid's whole spellbook. Instead of giving every class a similar toolkit/rotation like WOTLK does, just design raids to fully use the existing unique toolkits classes already have. Instead of giving moonkins mandatory group/raid buffs, give moonkins a reason to cast entangling roots, or a reason why you might want wizard to be able to stealth around like a rogue.
Shadow priest in tbc was an absolute blast to play. Super glad I chose that to be useful to my group and not warlock to press 1 button and do BiG DeEPs
I think a big reason he harps on muh one button classes in TBC (while also saying Vanilla is better LOL) is because he subjected himself to a one button monkey class. I mained Spriest and Rdruid on the side (Rdruid is pretty easy tbf) Spriest actually had some dynamic gameplay to it and was insanely fun. Propelled my TBC experience into the skies loved it.
@@420OngBak Once again raiding is such an incredibly small unimportant part of Classic overall. You used most of your skills soloing/small group/PvP outside of raiding out of necessity to survive. You don't use them in raiding because of efficiency and mana costs. People whine about casters being one button but they shine in aoe with many options. I do agree Warlock is particularly brain dead in raiding, myself played a mage and had many options. In many ways Classic raiding is incredibly boring, easy, low risk compared to the open world solo experience with PvP.
I wanted to pvp when TBC came out. I'd played tons of private servers and was totally familiar with the absolute top level of pvpers, since they were people who played every private server for 10 years nonstop only arenas all day every day. I thought to myself, since I'm much more casual and I have already played with them, the rest of pvp would be really fun and janky. Instead, what I got, was that people at 1500 were fully geared, fully meta, fully prepared with discord, addons pre-done together with knowledge what to look at. It was extremely rare that I'd find someone making a mistake. My first week I pushed to 1850 and felt completely burned out. Second week I decided to try full meta and swapped specc only to realize there was virtually nobody without gear, so I was far behind and at 1500 I was forced to play my absolute hardest to outskill them. This kind of broke it for me. It was not that it was so challenging, it was that there was no human error, no human skill, nothing involved beyond following a script which was on screen via addons for everyone. Every rogue played the same, every mage played the same, everyone played the exact same. This is why I'm skipping Wrath. I have zero interest queueing into a million death knights, paladins and warriors who might as well be PvE bosses.
Your long form content is fabulous. I really like it you present very very well. I haven't played world of Warcraft for a very long time and I'm sad that I missed out on the classic release the first time around. I came in during burning crusade and thought it was amazing and wrath was even better but I dropped off after that. I think maybe starting at level one and finally working towards beating Maligos would be very fun.
Although I don’t remember it very well, my time in original BC was quite unique. Had a blast playing the game for about 6 months before I found out about the auction house 😅. Never got into a guild until WOTLK. Leveling and having to travel by foot or slow mount was epic. Long journeys to dungeons with groups you made in trade chat was fun. I remember doing the journey to scarlet monastery from Ironforge quite often. PvP in sun well was crazy just trying to do dailies. Great times even tho I never raided once. I miss the nonwatered down game.
You should make a companion video to this one, about how you expect WotLK classic to go, going forward, touching on all the same points this did in retrospective for TBC.
Ur absolutely right about tanking as a druid, it was so frustrating until this Most recent patch. I never really feel like I need to worry about threat and I can actually have fun running thru things, I've just been healing the past couple months because I gave up on tanking even tho I was full bis lol. Spicycummies-Faerlina
Always love it when people say that 5 man group comps in raids was a TBC specific issue. It was made worse in TBC but it shows when you played only Alliance in Vanilla as group comps were a common issue on Horde in Vanilla.
Love the videos. Had to take a break from wow when TBC came out but watching your videos majes me feel like i still got to somewhat experience it. Thank you
The problem with attunements is that you can't just give players raids. What would happen is that they would rush straight to raiding through boosting. Then would raid non-stop. Exhaust the end game content and get bored quickly. Blizzard then would have to non-stop create end game content with ever inflating statistics which would cause ever downward spiral. Attunements and anti-cheese mechanics are healthy for the game. The fact that players did not liked only shows that they were working. It prevented players getting bored with a game and having to play more before maxing out their characters. Back in The Burning Crusade, maxing out a character was a challenge. Attunements was a major part of why. It prevented players from ruining their own gameplay.
For me, TBC is where the feeling started of content that felt like a super fake themepark environment instead of an immersive world. I also hated the scifi and draenei stuff that thematically felt like it didn't belong.
WOTLK will go huge. That was the greatest map layout and best zones and dungeons in any expansion. I think your going to have a blast! Naxx is so much fun!
TBC is still my favorite. Content phasing and the availability of information kind of ruined it--and that genie is never going back in the bottle. I will forever pine for the days of trying to figure out a strat for Archimonde when we only had 1 shaman. 97 wipes in mostly kara and some t5 gear. No guide videos on RUclips, just 25 friends piecing things together one try at a time. It's impossible to convey the difference between how T6 felt in classic iteration vs OG TBC. It was a *completely* different experience. Steamrolling it with t5 BIS and guide videos just made it boring. Probably time for me to hang up the WoW cleats, because Wrath isn't going to scratch that itch, either.
You know, I feel like the odd man out a lot of the time regarding this, but I really enjoy the zones like Hellfire Peninsula, Shadowmoon Valley, and Blade's Edge. There's something to me about this place that has been stripped of life, these very meagre looking settlements cropped at the edge of a wasteland barely clinging to life. I enjoy the vibe, I guess. I like most zones in the game, tbh.
Really really great video thank you for this ! I hope we’ll have something incredible with Dragonflight (it’s really promising) and made me come back so I catch up before it launches, I still have to buy it but at the moment discovering the Chromie time line feature is AMAZING ! I’ve been replaying Legion and having a blast with my boyfriend :) Love your video ❤ thanks for making this ! The editing is INCREDIBLE 👌🏻
Back in 2007 people either had dial-up or ADSL, not everyone had uberfast download speed and it took time to download the expansion. People would sit at the gate for 2 reasons, they hadn't bought the expansion or they hadn't downloaded the expansion. It was a zerg just to go through the gate and not admire what was around.
Depending on group buffs was a big thing in forming raids before TBC. Just alliance never had to worry about that. So many angry warriors and guilds desperate to get any shaman regardless of skill or gear just so they can drop the totems needed.
I am a veteran Wow Player that played vanilla and TBC in the past and which also played in Classic. I didn't experience any raiding in Vanilla but in TBC I did all of the raiding content it had and did a lot of collecting/farming. Classic was amazing I loved the community even though it was toxic. Gathering worldbuffs was boring but fun at the same time. Running to raids or getting summoned at safe spots, defending safe spots was fun. When I started playing TBC Classic It didn't give me the satisfaction I had in TBC or even continue the experience I had in Classic as our guild got smaller. And even raid logging went away due to no world buffs there was nothing to do after you got your bis and did your daily quests. I think one of the main problems was having a smaller world and only focusing on current content. I remember ferals farming gnomer for a raid weapon or player farming dust elementals in westfall for buffs.
40 man raids were a real party when you got people talking in voice chat. In Vanilla it was a real riot with some of the kids raiding back then. It's just not quite the same in 25 man and especially we all jaded 30 year boomers.
Amazing video WillE. I'm right there with you on just about all fronts. I really think pvp sucked in TBC, and trust me I tried. Somehow it seemed even more rock paper scissors than vanilla. Anyway. Loved the content, and I'll like and comment on the next video... very soon
![OsamaSon - ik what you did last summer [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4DIQDnu3mr4/mqdefault.jpg)
Sort your real life consumables out for Wrath Classic now - Use my link or go to strms.net/WilleFactorSeptemberYT and use code POGWILLE130 to get $130 off across 6 boxes!
Difference between tbc and wotlk prep for me is a healthy lifestyle and working out ! I use a meal delivery healthy service similar to this one instead of the typical gamer junk food
we need this for europe, too! (there is probably one, i guess(?), which i am just not aware of)
That segue was epic, they owe you a tip
The 'one button class' design is hyperbole, to play mage properly i used 72 keybinds
Guess your last statement didnt age too well
It is funny to sit here and watch this now. I wouldn't mind a season of TBC
a shame they don't have wotlk or tbc servers
but 3 janky versions of boring old vanilla....
I will never forget my first Karazan raid being a hunter in greens and blues. I got a whisper from a person I boosted through the DM a lot of times months ago pre TBC, "Hey want to raid Karazan? Our hunter didn't show up and we need one." I explained I would love to, but I never done it and I was in greens and blues and his answer "Doesn't matter we need a hunter to kite." and I got an invite and off I went, preforming the ancient mostly lost art of hunter kiting.
A hunter to kite what?
Also it's not a lost art your just inflating your self importance
@@danmoore1427Nothing realy, the same thing happened to me, I was a mage and people thought they would need sheep, that never happened, but I got a place in the main roster because I was a good mage and a decent person.
based on ur gear, i dont think u even attune, why are u making up a story ?
Every zone in Outland is gorgeous. Blade's Edge*** Mountains, Hellfire*** Peninsula, and the Bone Wastes*** are meant to be a little dreary... ya know?
The fact people love Zangarmarsh and Nagrand, the lush zones, so much means that the level designers did a great job designing the desolate regions of Outland.
I'm also one of the few people who loves Terokkar Forest as well.
Just stopped half way through the video to let you know how enjoyable it is! Storytelling is on point as usual, and the images already feel nostalgic... keep it up!
It was such a fun ride, got to show 2 friends what wow was about, sadly life happens, only got to play through phase 1 tbc, but it felt so good to be back.
specially returning and doing all the stuff in prepatch with them has been awesome again, reason I loved this game so much, but to be able to play with homies this time around, was so much better. Wrath is my last hurrah, wont do cata, but what a cool lil ride to go back on.
Do you think they're going to even do cata?
a 40 minute long wille video? what a blessed day
The willy videos I watch are usually 5-10 minutes max
That's not all Willie has 40 long
WillE is quite long, thank you very much.
TBC feels like the coziest expanion to me. It's unfortunate private servers manage to deliver a better WoW experience. TBC feels better on most private servers.
i cant believe how quickly time has gone. 1 year ago yesterday Phase 2 TK/SSC came out!!
Started watching you when classic released, ever since I've been looking forward to watching your new videos. You're currently the best wow creator by far, calming voice, interesting topics, good editing, what is there not to like. I could watch a video of you explaining how to cook potatoes and I wouldn't be bored.
Truest comment
LENNY
In before willie gets sponsored by microwaveable potatoes
I was in a dad guild called Salt on a PVE server. We were a chill group of skilled players with low competitive motivation and it was a great ride honestly. I agree with most of your analysis here. If you were lucky enough to be in a stable guild and were able to progress through all the content as it came out, it was a really fun time. Thanks to all my Salt friends! Loved the video Wille!
Damn, I just can't compliment you enough on your details you put in your videos Willie. I love how you did this review in steps right from the beginning. I pretty much agreed with you on everything, with the exception of group/raid wide buffs. As a pally main until TBC, it was a chore to buff everyone. I didn't mind it, but group/raid wide buffs made it much more easier and less time consuming for me.
When TBC launched, I switched to my shammy, as enh was always one of my favorite specs, and in TBC, it got plenty of love.
Unfortunately, this time around, I didn't get to pvp and raid as much as I would've liked to. In Original Vanilla and TBC, I was a young, single punk who didn't have much responsibilities.
This time around on re-releases, I'm working full time and have a family to provide for, as do many of us who try play when we can.
Anyways, I agree with pvp, it just didn't seem as fun as it did "back than." You touched on the exact points that made it difficult for me to enjoy it, catching up and trying to maintain as the game progresses.
Another great upload, much appreciated on the details and honest feedback. It's nice to see these longer videos come out. I really like listening to them while I'm grinding some pre-patch honor. Only these past few weeks, I feel I've been able to enjoy pvp again, because the honor gain is greatly increased, making it easier for a casual dad player to try get gear before WOTLK officially launches.
Cheers, Willie.
Thanks for the upload.
By far my favourite Wow content creator, always get the urge to play again after watching one of your longer vids, nice to see Pyrewood Village is still going strong!
Willie filling the void that Madseason left.
I miss him so much. Classic TBC not having much of the content/meme community to FF14 and burnout feels empty.
really hoping for Classic+ like Asmon has talked about: Vanilla WoW world + classic wrath talents and class design. Use this as a base to make new content.
pservers are already doing this and way better than 2022 blizzard could ever hope to
Update the graphics also
@@LennyDykstra1 just not wod models, half of the new ones look bad others look ok
Classic+ after WOTLK would be great, i hope they dont go the lazy route and release Cataclysm Classic.
lol as if it was asmon that came up with taht idea . Turtle WoW is a private server that is essentially a Vanilla+, it has custom content that continues the spirit of vanilla, addin new races, new zones, hundreds of new quests and spells/talents that follow the idea of WoW Vanilla
The years creep slowly by, Lorena. The snow is on the grass, again.
Ok, that was epic, Bellular quality, sponsor transition right there.
I could listen to your videos for hours.
I'm quite pleased that Classic TBC was over 6 months earlier than the original release. It lacked the scope of the oringal classic WoW, and got quite boring quite fast. I took a break after phase 2, and came back when Sunwell opened, and I don't feel like i missed much. I also switched my main to a Ret Paladin, as my Guild needed one.
I will say on a personal level I'd have liked one additional month in Sunwell before the nerfs hit. My guild was so close to beating M'uru, and then the nerfs hit and we sleepwalked through it. Bit of an anti-climax end to an overwise great experience.
And I hope Wrath gets a full 18 months. Considering there's more content, I really think it deserves it. Just over 4 months per tier seems decent, no (ideally, 4 of Naxx, 5 of Ulduar, 4 of ToC and 5 of ICC)?
@@andromidius well
thanks for the review willie! I became a father just before tbc launch and decided it was probably a good time to give wow a break. love to watch ur videos from time to time to see what i've been missing!
Thank you WillE for doing these, amazing content. I played an Ele shammy and i was more focused on PvP, it was rough and sad.
My guess is that wrath had the most players active ever, so that's why we're seeing so many people coming back. Also, a lot of people didnt stay for TBC due to the boost/pay to save character drama, and even MORE left after the scandal during the first months (investigation of sexual harassment and HR disaster). I saw so many just go away because of that
Awesome video mate. I stopped at the beginning of Phase 5 as I became a Dad! Was awesome to live the rest of the journey through your recap.
Exactly the kind of video I wanted to see from WillE, would love even more discussion topics with your personal imput
I’m commenting simply to support long form videos like this! Great work
I love these retrospectives! Keep up the great work Will!
Well done! I kinda want a WotLK preview of this length before launch and then a lookback at the end.
0:32 maybe small editing mistake? Tier 1, 2 then back to 1?
Great video Will-E, super thought out and really nails the TBC feeling on the head.
Really just want to see them bring back tbc classic in the form of Era. I would play forever
Solid video down memory lane. I share the sentiment of having enjoyed TBC, but I dont think I would play it again. Altho, after having played a geared warrior with double BL and a fully optimized group comp, that was probally some of the most fun raiding in a while
Definitely going to miss proper windfury and recklessness
Tank main here - Threat was fun. Probably peaks with Fury Prot Warrior in Vanilla and gets a little less fun in TBC. Also big separation between good groups and bad groups as a result of threat being a mechanic. But, threat was fun at the top end.
Have to agree. Fun isn't just about pressing more different buttons, it also has to do with pacing fight rhythm, and being observant of other players. One thing I used to love about TBC was in pacing and timing of threat drops and DPS boosting cooldowns. From memory these sorts of things don't really matter in Wrath and beyond. DPS becomes more about a rotation on the keyboard than about pacing through the course of an encounter. Without threat mattering DPS becomes a lot more solipsistic.
@@Scarletpimpanel73 agreed. In Naxx 40 a good raid was really about rhythm. Having the hunter pull. Timing the Patchwerk packs. Doing the dance, bursting Mograine. Just gold when you were all on point.
I really share the sentiment of there being little reason to go out in the world outside of raiding. It really bothered me because I even found myself raidlogging for months.
I raid logged more in classic than tbc, world buffs really made it so playing in between raids was just not worth it - at all. At least tbc had flying, and dailies, and decent farms, and reps to grind. Classic had..............DM jump runs?
I don't understand this mindset. There was plenty to do outside of raids, you just didn't want to do any of it. Pvp, heroics, alt leveling, farming, new daily hubs with mounts like Netherwing, etc. There was stuff to do. If that isn't your bag, fine, then why get bothered by it?
@@Mr.Slaughter I had the same issues as the original comment
PvP was something I never had an interest, if I did PvP then in the open world which didn't happen.
Heroics are done after a while too with nothing to gain, yeah you could get more badges for god knows why
Alt leveling I spent the most time on in TBC but I don't want that to be the case, I have a MAIN character for a reason that I want to play
Farming is the most I could do with my main but Outlands is so ugly and small so that wasn't nearly as fun as in Classic or Wrath
Daily hubs are good but not a feature where I think "Damn can't wait to log in and play!" but rather "I HAVE to do my dailies today!"
I had such a blast with classic since Nostalrius and I also had a blast with Wrath in the past (retail + private servers) but I can't stand TBC, it is the ugly middle child in this scenario.
Some of the best times I had in TBC was during the down time between raids. Drunk farming primals to craft gear for new guildies or raid mats was fun as hell.
He touched on threat and agro management and as someone who main tanked all of Vanilla WoW, TBC, and beyond I can tell you that 90% of the prob with Vanilla was that as a Warrior's gear improved, his threat generation got worse. Most of the rage generated was from damage taken. So as you mitigate more, block 100%, etc etc. Your ability to hold a bosses attention diminished. I did not play the Classic relaunch but I assume it was about the same. It was about 3 years before TBC come out from WoW's launch and it got really bad in the last year. It was complaint #1 on warrior forums for a long time. It got to the point that you started to drop your rotation and let a boss crit you just so you could keep agro up. Which was dangerous because new content could two round you easy. TBC was a great improvement, other classes could tank, and they reworked the entire threat system. Anybody from the outside looking in could tell. But it all stemmed from one issue and it was not so obvious if you weren't the guild's punching bag. Threat output solely based on damage incoming. That system works fine until the day it doesn't.
As someone who never played either vanilla or tbc when they first released because i was too young, i gave both iterations of the game a shot and i just couldn't make myself like them because of just how much time is required from you to "complete" your character.
I'm so looking forward to wotlk classic and leaving tbc behind once and for all, the qol changes i've seen so far in the prepatch have been amazing.
Definitely playing way more this time around.
Once they are done though, they are done. You don't need to grind world quests, dailies and mythic+ chest gambling for infinity like retail. They are infinitely more achievable over time compare to the expected daily chores.
Biggest gripe about TBC was servers getting 100% abandoned by one faction or completely killed and being in a semi serious guild. The raid comp having to have 5 + shamans and a boomie a ret, feral etc was annoying.
I definitely agree with you, this expansion had some very high highs but it dipped quite a lot as well. As a more casual player I would've liked to play nerfed Sunwell for a bit before prepatch hit so that my dad guild would also be able to get further than Brutallus. Still, I did manage to kill KJ eventually and as a prot warrior main, maintanking Illidan was the highlight of my expansion for sure.
Overall I liked TBC a lot less than Classic though. I would return to Azeroth but not to Outland.
EU or NA? im looking for a dad guild:)
@@iosifrazvan4095 EU, I'm on Pyrewood Village Alliance as well
sunwell was the only raid, besides vashj/kael that wasnt to easy. for sure, phase 3 lost a lot of its glory cause it was a joke in this state. i hate the prepatch nerf to all content
Amazing video, sadly the last line didnt aged well as survey for Cata is out :D
i absolutely adore how witty your comments are, especially the ones you made when explaining tbc aggro. your videos have so much character, useful info and insight. keep it up man
It's always a great day when a WillE video drops. Keep up the amazing work. The best WoW content on RUclips by a mile
i cant wait to fly in circles around dalaran while i watch more of your youtube videos in the future!
I have no idea who the warlock at the start of the video is.
WillE is a gnome.
I absolutely love your channel man. You do such a great job. I appreciate you.
Your voice is soothing and your videos are so thourough and nice ti watch. Thank you!
Solid video, realistic summary of the game’s systems and how it’s played out in practice.
TBC was so much fun playing PVP the insane amounts of resil in wrath just kills the game completely for me. Will always remember my time in AB as a fire mage in classic and TBC I absolutely fucking destroyed kids. Going 45 kbs 100 kills and 0 deaths in AB is by far the best gaming experience I have ever had.
"your class gets utility added to become a valuable and wanted part of your raid group"
rogues: " ... "
"there weren't any meme specs"
assassination rogues: " ... "
You had your time in classic
thanks, willie, for everything!
I had some fun in TBC classic. It was nice being able to play a feral druid without being lectured to farm a bunch of level 32 staves from Gnomeregan, and having my dps be viable. After a while though, the game atmosphere just felt...stale. Most people that played didn't talk much, minmaxed to hell and back, and it didn't feel like an adventure. Once I beat Illidan, I feel like I was able to complete the content I never got a chance to as a teenager, and was able to hang up the old WoW boots for a final time.
I'd like to see a MMO that puts a brand new spin on the meta. Something that doesn't use the standard leveling system with the "grind to end game" mentality. I want a whole new world to explore, with something fun and exciting to see at every turn.
The only big criticism I have of classic and TBC is lack of Dual Spec. The inability to easily be specced for pvp or pve is 99% of the reason I didn't play much in both.
So does that mean you've started up again for wrath?
I agree with this. I don't PvP much but I mained a healer and everytime I had to do quests or anything not grouped it was just a pain in the ass
just pay the money each week.
or as sham swapping resto to ele. Swapping everything to spellpower helped as much in this regard as dual spec
Totally agree. Committing to maining a healer, but not having tons of time to farm gold to switch specs, was just too daunting. Happily coming back to Wrath where I can dual spec.
Amazing video WillE! Really enjoyed it
Enjoyed the recap WillE, looking forward to the videos to come in Wrath!
Really good review and i agree 16 months of TBC feels to short
I'd like to see a single dedicated TBC server. Very disappointed they didn't create one.
I had so, so much fun in phase 1 of BC, more fun than I ever had in classic. But by the time phase 2 came out, my smaller server was dying, and the tier 5 content was honestly a huge slog and not fun at all for me (a tank). So I ended up quitting, and I really wish I had enough motivation to stick around for the other phases.
I ain't even mad, impressed at how he slipped the sponsor in lol
great video. thanks for the analysis of your own experience
"I don't expect a tank to tickle a mob and generate 20k threat.."
**Laughs in DK**
I didn't play the Classic re-releases, but when it comes to what I played the most back in 2005-2009, it would be vanilla and WotLK more than tBC. They should the best features of all three of those iterations of WoW to make a Classic+ with seasonal and hardcore/permadeath servers.
How is it possible that you only have 142k subs. Your content is amazing.
I had very fond memories and high expectations of TBC "fixing things", but after playing it and a few weeks of WOTLK pre-patch, I think classic vanilla was by far the best of the 3. Classes were unique and had huge strengths and brutal weaknesses. The world had organic reasons to go out in it, and it was reasonably dangerous due to no flying. Erratic/illogical itemization was actually a good thing. And player's damage and effects happened in discernable ways instead of a laundry list of procs, crit'able dots, and off-GCD macros.
It needed 2 changes though:
1. World buffs only on DMF week, and DMF week is always delayed to land at least a few weeks after new raid content.
2. New or modified raids, but not in the way SOM did it. Need raids to be designed specifically to use the whole raid's whole spellbook. Instead of giving every class a similar toolkit/rotation like WOTLK does, just design raids to fully use the existing unique toolkits classes already have. Instead of giving moonkins mandatory group/raid buffs, give moonkins a reason to cast entangling roots, or a reason why you might want wizard to be able to stealth around like a rogue.
100%. The quirks of classic make it a more interesting game. Wotlk while good, started the trend of gear just being items with bigger stats
Excellent vid WillE, really enjoyed it, thanks!
Shadow priest in tbc was an absolute blast to play. Super glad I chose that to be useful to my group and not warlock to press 1 button and do BiG DeEPs
I think a big reason he harps on muh one button classes in TBC (while also saying Vanilla is better LOL) is because he subjected himself to a one button monkey class. I mained Spriest and Rdruid on the side (Rdruid is pretty easy tbf) Spriest actually had some dynamic gameplay to it and was insanely fun. Propelled my TBC experience into the skies loved it.
@@420OngBak Once again raiding is such an incredibly small unimportant part of Classic overall. You used most of your skills soloing/small group/PvP outside of raiding out of necessity to survive. You don't use them in raiding because of efficiency and mana costs. People whine about casters being one button but they shine in aoe with many options. I do agree Warlock is particularly brain dead in raiding, myself played a mage and had many options. In many ways Classic raiding is incredibly boring, easy, low risk compared to the open world solo experience with PvP.
I wanted to pvp when TBC came out. I'd played tons of private servers and was totally familiar with the absolute top level of pvpers, since they were people who played every private server for 10 years nonstop only arenas all day every day. I thought to myself, since I'm much more casual and I have already played with them, the rest of pvp would be really fun and janky. Instead, what I got, was that people at 1500 were fully geared, fully meta, fully prepared with discord, addons pre-done together with knowledge what to look at. It was extremely rare that I'd find someone making a mistake. My first week I pushed to 1850 and felt completely burned out. Second week I decided to try full meta and swapped specc only to realize there was virtually nobody without gear, so I was far behind and at 1500 I was forced to play my absolute hardest to outskill them. This kind of broke it for me. It was not that it was so challenging, it was that there was no human error, no human skill, nothing involved beyond following a script which was on screen via addons for everyone. Every rogue played the same, every mage played the same, everyone played the exact same. This is why I'm skipping Wrath. I have zero interest queueing into a million death knights, paladins and warriors who might as well be PvE bosses.
Awesome review Will! I skipped TBC classic and happy I did. Only so many times you can run something before it is a little stale.
Your long form content is fabulous. I really like it you present very very well. I haven't played world of Warcraft for a very long time and I'm sad that I missed out on the classic release the first time around. I came in during burning crusade and thought it was amazing and wrath was even better but I dropped off after that. I think maybe starting at level one and finally working towards beating Maligos would be very fun.
I was happy that my guild went from being unable to finish SSC/TK pre-nerf, to being able to beat SWP before the pre-nerf.
Wow the sponsor transition was more smooth than FACTORs mashed potatoes
Although I don’t remember it very well, my time in original BC was quite unique.
Had a blast playing the game for about 6 months before I found out about the auction house 😅. Never got into a guild until WOTLK. Leveling and having to travel by foot or slow mount was epic. Long journeys to dungeons with groups you made in trade chat was fun. I remember doing the journey to scarlet monastery from Ironforge quite often.
PvP in sun well was crazy just trying to do dailies. Great times even tho I never raided once. I miss the nonwatered down game.
You should make a companion video to this one, about how you expect WotLK classic to go, going forward, touching on all the same points this did in retrospective for TBC.
Always enjoy watching your videos and hearing what you have to say.
33 Wipes on Muru without nerf
Dats whats WoW about !
TBC WAS GREAT !!
Am a big fan of this more long-form content. Keep up the content mate :)
Ur absolutely right about tanking as a druid, it was so frustrating until this Most recent patch. I never really feel like I need to worry about threat and I can actually have fun running thru things, I've just been healing the past couple months because I gave up on tanking even tho I was full bis lol.
Spicycummies-Faerlina
what a glorious wake up! 40min WillE vid!
Great video bud, I love the long form stuff you do.
Beautiful video. Just wanted to leave a comment to show my support and appreciation. Long time sub. Thanks WillE!
excellent video, you nailed every good and bad aspect of tbc, i still feel like tbc was a bit rushed and i hope i can play it again in a few years.
can't wait for your wrath recap. thanks so much for your vids. truly the highlight of many days..
Always love it when people say that 5 man group comps in raids was a TBC specific issue. It was made worse in TBC but it shows when you played only Alliance in Vanilla as group comps were a common issue on Horde in Vanilla.
Yep needing nearly a shaman in every group was a real problem. Paladins giving raid wide buffs instead of group wide is a huge difference.
Thanks Will. Always great vids.
A rare sighting of the 'double-intro' in it's natural habitat. XD
Love the videos. Had to take a break from wow when TBC came out but watching your videos majes me feel like i still got to somewhat experience it. Thank you
The problem with attunements is that you can't just give players raids. What would happen is that they would rush straight to raiding through boosting. Then would raid non-stop. Exhaust the end game content and get bored quickly. Blizzard then would have to non-stop create end game content with ever inflating statistics which would cause ever downward spiral. Attunements and anti-cheese mechanics are healthy for the game. The fact that players did not liked only shows that they were working. It prevented players getting bored with a game and having to play more before maxing out their characters. Back in The Burning Crusade, maxing out a character was a challenge. Attunements was a major part of why. It prevented players from ruining their own gameplay.
Omg your closing is so bliss.
For me, TBC is where the feeling started of content that felt like a super fake themepark environment instead of an immersive world. I also hated the scifi and draenei stuff that thematically felt like it didn't belong.
Still the BIS expansion that WoW had.
WoTLK.
WOTLK will go huge. That was the greatest map layout and best zones and dungeons in any expansion. I think your going to have a blast! Naxx is so much fun!
I really loved TBC, I could have done 6 months more. Great review
Started playing GW2 and stopped paying for wow 6 years ago. Wallet is happy and it doesn’t feel like your in an abuse relationship ❤️
TBC is still my favorite. Content phasing and the availability of information kind of ruined it--and that genie is never going back in the bottle. I will forever pine for the days of trying to figure out a strat for Archimonde when we only had 1 shaman. 97 wipes in mostly kara and some t5 gear. No guide videos on RUclips, just 25 friends piecing things together one try at a time. It's impossible to convey the difference between how T6 felt in classic iteration vs OG TBC. It was a *completely* different experience. Steamrolling it with t5 BIS and guide videos just made it boring.
Probably time for me to hang up the WoW cleats, because Wrath isn't going to scratch that itch, either.
You know, I feel like the odd man out a lot of the time regarding this, but I really enjoy the zones like Hellfire Peninsula, Shadowmoon Valley, and Blade's Edge.
There's something to me about this place that has been stripped of life, these very meagre looking settlements cropped at the edge of a wasteland barely clinging to life. I enjoy the vibe, I guess.
I like most zones in the game, tbh.
Really really great video thank you for this !
I hope we’ll have something incredible with Dragonflight (it’s really promising) and made me come back so I catch up before it launches, I still have to buy it but at the moment discovering the Chromie time line feature is AMAZING ! I’ve been replaying Legion and having a blast with my boyfriend :)
Love your video ❤ thanks for making this ! The editing is INCREDIBLE 👌🏻
Back in 2007 people either had dial-up or ADSL, not everyone had uberfast download speed and it took time to download the expansion. People would sit at the gate for 2 reasons, they hadn't bought the expansion or they hadn't downloaded the expansion. It was a zerg just to go through the gate and not admire what was around.
Depending on group buffs was a big thing in forming raids before TBC. Just alliance never had to worry about that. So many angry warriors and guilds desperate to get any shaman regardless of skill or gear just so they can drop the totems needed.
The intro reminds me of the side stories in Barneys Scarab Lord epic.
I am a veteran Wow Player that played vanilla and TBC in the past and which also played in Classic.
I didn't experience any raiding in Vanilla but in TBC I did all of the raiding content it had and did a lot of collecting/farming.
Classic was amazing I loved the community even though it was toxic. Gathering worldbuffs was boring but fun at the same time. Running to raids or getting summoned at safe spots, defending safe spots was fun.
When I started playing TBC Classic It didn't give me the satisfaction I had in TBC or even continue the experience I had in Classic as our guild got smaller. And even raid logging went away due to no world buffs there was nothing to do after you got your bis and did your daily quests.
I think one of the main problems was having a smaller world and only focusing on current content. I remember ferals farming gnomer for a raid weapon or player farming dust elementals in westfall for buffs.
40 man raids were a real party when you got people talking in voice chat. In Vanilla it was a real riot with some of the kids raiding back then. It's just not quite the same in 25 man and especially we all jaded 30 year boomers.
Oh this is excellent.
Appears youtube unsubbed me since I could have swore I was subbed already.
Brilliant vid - loved hearing your experiences!
Already miss tbc..loved it
What a video mate, great job!
Amazing video WillE. I'm right there with you on just about all fronts. I really think pvp sucked in TBC, and trust me I tried. Somehow it seemed even more rock paper scissors than vanilla.
Anyway. Loved the content, and I'll like and comment on the next video... very soon
Thanks man! Awesome video!
Nice recap, brings back good and bad memories. Makes me ready to move on now :-)