The Electric Dirt Bike Project Gets a New Custom Built Frame - Part 2
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- Опубликовано: 23 июл 2022
- Today we are building a 72v 12,000w electric dirt bike! using a Kawasaki KX250 dirt bike frame. I am very excited about this project, and am excited to see what this electric dirt bike can do.
"12000w" e bike kit from amazon
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Music by Epidemic Sound (www.epidemicsound.com) 
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As I said in my comment in your last video, the QS273 (which is what you have) can output up to 40-50KW, the "ratings" don't dictate the power level. The battery amp output will have the greatest impact on how much power you have, and obviously you'll need a controller to supply that giant battery output. If your battery can output 150A then you're above 12000W already (84V x 150A = 12600W). 👍 Just keep learning more about how these things go and you'll figure it out. You didn't get scammed, you just don't understand how these EV systems work yet.
The far-driver ND72530 can handle up to 330A RMS which at 84V (fully charged pack) is 27720W (27KW) - as long as your battery can supply that output that is how much power you'll make, and yes the QS273 can handle it.
Listen this guy.
@@F4ilu2e Thanks brother 🍻
@@hightech-lowlife No problems. I was facepalming so much during this video. Im having 4000W qs273 on my custom ebike, its peak performance is 17kW atm, no heat issues. As i switch from sabvoton 72200 to Nucular 24F im able to hit it even with more amps. Target is 22kW. I would recommend a battery pack made of Samsung 40T cells (21700), they are capable to insane current draw. 18650 are so last season and can not be recommended for high speed eBikes. 72Volts are minimum recommended imo. 60Ah battery rides me 70km in 50km/h with motor only.
@@F4ilu2e Yes, I only commented twice because a lot of people already told him the info he needs to know, but didn't seem to check it out. Unless this was already pre-recorded and he's just putting it out now. But you have to remember when you first started in the hobby too, it's easy to get confused and overwhelmed with everything. I definitely made a lot of mistakes with my first builds (still make mistakes now too 💪). On my latest build I have a QS273 with a 72200 and a 70Ah pack (you can check my channel if you want to see it), even with my custom frame that is heavy it's total overkill. I haven't built my own batteries yet, but I think prismatic cells are really the way to go for massive amp dumps.
So tru no ferrofluid needed I know nucular is a great all inclusive environment but I would only use it if I was building a custom pack with their bms as they perform better at higher voltage the asi bac8000 is harder to program but the community is pretty big and the settings for qs273 and 205 (138 70h and 90h as well) are well known especially if you plan on going 72v nominal there's nothing more powerful or efficient especially for the size 😉 easily dump 30kw with one of these features include but not limited to true foc, mtpa (max torqu per amp),and ridiculous field weakening. If you look at videos of what happens when you go bac over chinese controllers look no further than surron videos. Not to say you won't have fun on nucular just be aware it's not rated for the same levels especially at 72v plus you would be running higher amps instead of its peak voltage most of the time compared to the bac that's maxes out at 72v so you'll not have to worry about heat in the controller a lot ppl have burnt nucular at 72v cause they run them at higher amps instead of going higher voltage to get the best out of it
if the rim outside diameter you can re-lace motor to dirt bike rim using spokes form new rim. i re-laced my DR650SE with supermoto rim using oem spokes ( both rims were 17")
Ya and getting it balanced is slim to none.without the proper equipment.
As long as they’re same # of spokes, Or variant of. IE. if you could skip every third one or whatever to make it even tension all the way around
@@gohphaqurselfeeputhy622 it's not that simple lol
@@jerrywilcox9890 why do you even care then??
@@dylanzrim3635 because I can and don't need your permission.
Hey Chris, i really like how the frame is turning out, you are doing a great job, it kinda sucks that you are having troubles welding it. I can definitely tell you that this hub motor is not 5000W or 8000W, it is way too big. Buying a 12000W tunable controller is definitely the way to go, you'll be able to control how much current is going to the phases of the motor as well as regenerative braking and all that good stuff. If i had the setup to weld aluminium i would be tempted to make the same kind of project (no chain, no gearbox, those things are very reliable and dont need maintenance). I can already tell you that you'll not be disapointed by the power of this thing on the trails. The range might be another story tho :/
I love the build, keep the videos coming :)
fyi the fardriver controller is already very tunable and will peak to about 24kW, there is no need
@@nopeahuoli I did not check the exact reference he gave in the video, i'm more used to Kelly or golden motors controlers...
Dipping your big toe in electricity will zap you. Once you get past the zap stage, the sheer oomph of the electric motor will tear you clean off your bike. What a project! Couldn't think of a better person to take it on.
You've been running this channel for years. A channel that's mostly about welding, fabricating and machining. You've made dozens of vehicles from basically scratch. You even had a phase converter, installed for the lathe, and you haven't ran 220 to the welding shop yet? That's amazing and dumbfounding at the same time. Who says you can't do great work with a 110 mig?
Go to Home Depot, buy a run of heavy gauge three conductor wire long enough to reach the shed, buy a ~50 amp 220v breaker, buy a 220v receptacle and box. Build yourself a direct to breaker box 220v extension cord.
I did that in my shop for heavy gauge welding and it works great.
In part 3 of this project I had to wire up a 220 50 amp outlet in the garage, and it only cost me $200. I probably would have spent almost a thousand dollars to put it in the shed , plus I would have had to dig another trench to the shed
@@ratherBweldingChris My setup is a temporary fix. I’d have to tear into the wall to do it “the right way”.
I’m glad you got yourself a proper 220v source finally.
Watching you for years since you’ve started to build your own lathe. I love how genuine you are like in the old videos. Good luck with the project, we will watch no matter how it works out :)
Cool! Excited to see it ripping!
Looks amazing. Doesn’t look to big. I mean ya because that’s the only piece in front of you at the moment but that’s replacing engine and gas tank and any other fluids/coolant ect. Just amazing job
I would suggest getting a 12000w controller and using it on the hub motor you’ve got. I built an electric mountain bike using that same battery. I had a 5000w hub motor and a 150ah controller. The bike weighed about 200lbs and it was VERY fast. My top speed was 70mph and it had amazing acceleration. Although I was sending about 13000w to the motor, it handled it very well. The guy I sold the bike to rode it on the highway at full throttle for about 15 miles and he got an error code because the motor was too hot. He turned the bike off and let it sit for about 10 minutes then turned it on and it worked fine. As long as you monitor the temperature of the motor or your controller connects to the temp sensor on the motor, you should be fine over powering the motor.
This controller he has already handles 24KW easily, he doesn't need a new controller. 👍
@@hightech-lowlife Perfect! I’m not familiar with that controller so I was unaware. By the way, your videos helped me and inspired me to build my ebike!
@@parker2301 It's all good man - just trying to help out, and wow that's amazing, thanks so much!!
Clamp a chunk of steel close to the weld on the thin aluminum to wick the heat away or weld thicker aluminum to the tube and bolt the thin to it.
Great progress Chris. Thanks for this video. 👍😁
You are a damn fine fabricator. 110v power in your shed and you can churn out amazing work like you do. Big Thumbs up
Nice job Chris. This is going to be a super build and can't wait until it's finished.
Nice job Chris. This thing is going to be awesome.
That controller will do way over 12kw peak. It is rated for 330a. Amps x volts = watts 330a x 72v =23,760 watts. I would even bet it could do 12kw continuous which is well below 200 amps. The problem will be heat and if your battery can supply the amps.
which controller is he using , i missed it ?
@@airgunningyup old style votol 72350 I do believe. 72 nominal volts and 350 max amps, well, 330, but 72330 doesn't look as cool a model number.
Just hope they aren't being like Kelly controllers and calling phase amps just "amps". I think either way, he's going to be blown away by the power of a decent ebike while he loops it hahaa
@@th3d3wd3r had a kelly 200 amp running a scooter, it was pathetic.. weaker than a chinese controller i bought for 40 bux.. agreed , the torque will be insane.. even the small 3000watt hubs will throw you clean off fed enough current
@@airgunningyup hahaaa! Kelly, absolute golf cart controllers ;) I run an mxus 3k. 140 battery amps, 300 phase at 100v. It can loop me and I'm 16.5 stone
Interesting build, can't wait for the next video 👍.
This is so sick and such a good time just ordered my first mig gonna be doing this for sure been thinking this threw for about 6 months now so glad to be able to see all those ideas come to life cant wait
You really are the Master of Metal, and the King of Cardboard at the same time.
Love your work man!
Kudos for pushing through
The music for this episode was solid.
Wheb you said aluminum frame I was not expecting that but am even more impressed of your ability to build with what you have
You could get the 12000watt motor for the street bike and re-spoke it into the dirt bike rim. Just a thought. Hope this helps. God bless, stay well. (What Thomas Vega said)
As you know I’ve commented a lot on your channel and I’m just looking out for you. You’re a brilliant fabricator especially for your age. Keep the great videos coming please.
Make it 2wd
An easy way to get by without runnin 220 out to ur garage is to get a nice 220 extension cable an run it into ur house
To say a 220 dryer or stove outlet. You obviously wouldnt want to use it like that permanently. But for a quick hassle-free 220 connection it'll b perfect. Just a thought. An love the growth of the channel been here since the beginning. Keep up the excellent work man an good luck.
Darn your over again now I’ve got to wait for the next one !! But it’s sure worth the wait really enjoy your content and your skills you provide thank you for letting sit in and watch
That's a great method to build a frame, way ta go
congratulations bro, I've been waiting for you to do such a project for a long time. It's beautiful 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Great, love this. more please.
25:08 That is so satisfying to see.
Good to see that you are experimenting with monocoque construction. Some internal gussets around the headstock and swingarm mounts would help distribute point loading across the box section.
The maf gas flame also wraps around pipes to get a more even heat dispersion, rather than the flame hitting the pipe and splitting away getting no flame on the backside of the pipe
I'm still excited about this build, I've been looking forward to seeing you do a legit electric build and even though you are having some problems I'm still excited to see what you make..... Good Luck and I hope you get the motor/controller situation figured out. 😁
Your killing it man. You defiantly need 240v for welding though. If you have a sub panel for your shed then it should be easy to add. It will pay for itself. Even when welding steel it will improve your duty cycle and arc control, but is absolutely necessary for properly welding thicker aluminum. If continue to overload the welder on 120v then it will fry the motherboard. Your videos and projects are awesome! Keep up the good work.
Great video, man.
This is a great project. Interesting to see how that battery goes.
Great work man
Got to be my favorit build yet
Get a roll of #10-3 romex. (Fairly cheap and it matches a dryer plug rating) Attach a dryer plug on one end and a female welder plug on the other. It's good for 30a @220v. Which is 6,600 watts! Your 110v 20amp is only good for 2,200 watts! I have one made up that I use for emergency use at other people's houses. Just use it as an extension cord when you need to weld high amperage.
Those motors, especially brushless can be run on higher voltages and amps then advertises so upgrading the controller might be the only thing necessary. Company Able Bike has good products that aren’t falsely advertised. Loving the project so far, keep up the good content!
it's looking super good Criss
Allsome work from cruzermans inventions 😁👍🎉🌟🌟🌟
Bro please up load part 3 quick I’ve watched you since the lifted go kart days I love the progress man for real one day I will see you buscko
Dope bro you built the frame
I need a local scrap yard like yours fr... Great video 📷 Chris.
Been waiting on this video! Gonna be so cool
Chris, You need to invest in some torch nozzles for your oxi/set. Weld the alloy with gas.
It's going to be really fast 👍😁👌🌟🌟🌟
If you have 2 blank single pole spots just grab a 220 breaker, pull the cover off and you should be able to come straight out of the panel with any 220 pigtail your welder needs. You can just pull the breaker and pigtail off when done welding and put the cover back on. You will have to put ground and common lead in a socket but its pretty easy. It worked well for me when I used to work at my house in my garage
You can take out the 110 wall outlet and install a 220 to match the 220 plug then move your wires around , you will have 2 hots and a ground . Right now you should have 1 hot 1 common and 1 ground . or just run new wires
The shed only has 110 you can’t get 220 out of that
@@kene6838 yes you can
I'll throw some numbers and explain how I got them below.
-Controller rating: 100A rms 330A Peak at 72v. It can handle 88v peak for full charged battery.
-Battery rated at 72v nominal while being 84v fully charged to 60v (this rating varies depending on Battery management system settings)
-Wattage using a 72v battery should be rated at 7,200 Watts while being 8,400 Watts fully charged and 6,000 watts near cut-off
-(Don't expect these numbers) With a 72V battery and 330 A peak Wattage should be rated at 23,760 Watts nominal and be 27,230 Watts on a fully charged battery and 19,800 watts on a spent battery.
From some quick research. The Fardriver ND72530 controller will pull 100 A continuous and 330 A peak. Your 72v battery has 20 batteries in series to be rated at 72 volts and lots more in parallel but I can't know that without being told. Here is some quick math. Lithium-ion (not lithium iron phosphate) batteries are rated at 3.6 - 3.7v depending on the manufacturer. 3.6v * 20 = 72 volts. Their real operating voltage is from 4.2 when fully charged to 3.0v (depending on your BMS settings) safely discharged. Those numbers multiplied by 20 means that your battery's operating voltage is from 84 volts fully charged down to 60 volts fully discharged. Watts = Current * Voltage so that controller will put out a continuous 8,400 Watts off the charger and 6,000 watts right before cutoff. That is pretty fast despite what other speed junkies say. On paper, it should peak at 27,720 off the charger and 19,800 when low.
8400w is roughly 12hp. Even with the difference in torque, that's barely enough to go around a motocross track. And by "barely" I mean you wouldn't even be able to clear the jumps on a dirt bike that size. Maybe good enough for some light trails but that's it.
@@fullmetaljacket7 My mistake, I have and built normal bike frame ebikes that do about 25 MPH and a faster depending on the condition. I somehow glanced over the fact that he mentioned "Dirt Bike". Yeah, this setup would be overkill for what I use them for. I can't comment about dirt bikes since I obviously don't know their power requirements.
Thats 330 phase Amps, not battery amps, I doubt your getting more than 120 peak battery amps
It won't peak at 27kw of the charger tho, the battery will always sag under load
@@crazyexperiments4815 it's peak is probably 10kw. Because that 330a is the phase amp rating.
Wow that's gonna be fast 👍😁🎉👌💕
Sellers usually title motor/controller combos as peak power. 5kw kits usually peak at 12kw, but they are rated for 5kw nominal. The electric works isn't as straight forward as it seems on amazon and aliexpress ads. The big QSMOTORS can for sure peak even more than 12kw, you just need the right controller to go with it. Curtis and Kelly controllers are the most reliable out there.
This is sick! May want to pop the triple trees on and check for clearance , I think that lower plate may need a jog in it before the headtube so you get full lock left abd right.
That's a great project
Plug your welder into ur stove outlet for that one weld they are usually 240V. Love the vids!
Preheating aluminium tip.
By covering the air inlet of your map gas it will came make an oxidizing flame.
This can be used to leave a black carbon layer on the aluminium.
Now with your normal map gas flame heat the blackened area until the black carbon disapears. The carbon burns off at the ideal temporature to weld or anneal aluminium.
Yeah buddy in to the future 😁👍🎉🌟 allsome work from cruzermans inventions 😁 🎉🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟
This motor will exceed the power rating you can handle,I’m currently running mine at 57,000watts.
peak? how often are ur phase amps that high
@@Matt-og5kd when accelerating fast.yes it is peak.
Put a 220 in just for welding and make sure to turn off everything else when your using it. Change it back when you done. Easy peasy.
Dude, I cannot tell you how awesome your videos are to me. Love your gameplan of getting a higher power controller and just sending it. I have an AGNI (Lynch Motor) unique axial gap high torque dc motor which I've ran at all power levels up to 12kw and between 3-72 volts, it makes 15hp but feels like much more because it's a high torque low rpm motor. If your plan doesn't work out I'd look into one of those motors for your mountain bike or even dirt bike (AGNI/Lynch 95r). Always good to see you.
Thanks man, I appreciate it
Good job.
Ohh hell yeah!
You got a tru 12000w kit there. You got the qs273 50h and it is a beast. It's actually more than that if you do the math, the nd72530 can output 330amps at 72v. 72v*330amps= 24000w. The 12000w rating is nominal power, the peak power is about 24kw. I suggest that you bulid the bike with the components you got there and then maybe upgrade the controller later if you want more power.
I have the same controller, only a higher voltage version nd96530 and I am pulling way more than 12kw
Hi, I'm from Dominican Repúblic, i send you a big "HI" from here, an caribbean island besides puerto Rico and Cuba, my native language Is spanish, so Any mistake in my writing , i beg you pardon, I'm following you for this project, the electric dirt bike, exellent, congrats!, I can't wait to see when you finish it, i know it'll be perfect, I'm glad the way you create most of parts from cero, you are a genious, i hope everything when finished be a complete sucess👍
First of all, the advertised power rating of the motors is usually the "continuous" power that the motor can handle, it doesn't mean that the motor "has" that power. A motor's power is mostly determined by the power that the controller can give out minus heat loss and what not.
In your case with the ND72530, it can peak to about 24kW, which is a fuckton of power and torque for someone with little to no experience with electric bikes. Generally no hobbyist gives a fuck about continuous power with EV's since you won't be going full throttle all the time.
As for the motor, it seems to be the strongest 273 motor so with temp sensors and correctly set temp protection it should handle the 530A peak phase current just fine, and even better with ferrofluid
Almost forgot about the battery, to fully utilize the controller power and the motor's potential, you need a 72V battery that can output the 330A peak battery current safely (+ some headroom). I highly doubt the amazon battery can do that.
Great project!. You should consider putting vents, and maybe even a fan along with vents in that frame where the controller and battery is, Those things tend to get hot.
Rims a rim. Dirt bike or street bike mag or spokes. Can put road tire or dirt tire on any rim period. Like say 18 inch rim. You can put street,dual,dirt ect any tire you want on it as long as the tire is a 18inch. That goes for any and all tires and rims for bikes. I’ve mounted dirt bike tires on motor cylinders and vise versus back in the day.
If the wheels are rimmed just swap rims over. It takes a while but is very satisfying and will make a great video.
Just run it (the motor) with what you've got (controller), see how it goes, i think the controller will likely be fine for the moment, the controller is probably heat limited, 5kw is probably the most it can do continuously, it'll probably do much more peak.
For strength, i very much suggest adding some reinforcing strips (cut a bit if 1.5in od tube in half?) to the left hand side panel that go between the swingarm mount and the head tube. If you can add 2 strips length ways from the swingarm mount, up towards the seat then head tube, that would also be great - plate is strong, but very prone to buckling and as soon as it buckles it is weak.
Go with a lower intermittent. If 120A trips the breaker in 3-4, then 200A should go, but for maybe 2 minutes.
Its a matter of stop-and-go.
I’ve always wanted to see someone try dual motor electric dirt bike. Like you use one as the front and run the wires where they don’t tangle and then you have a all wheel drive 16,000 watt dirt bike with two controllers
You can over-volt the QS 273 motor to get 12kW peak. Also get a Kelly controller that is 72-96V 150-200A.
Excellent ☮️
Mix helium with your Argan gas. Helium helps with getting more heat in the weld.
You can try a 20amp 110 receptacle instead of the normal 15amp, replace the wire to the proper gauge, and replace the breaker.
Lot off comment you are doing the great job my friend. As I also.
Motor controller watt 5000 watt some what nerveous you butt keep happy.
As per my information on internet the ev motor controller manufacturers don't give correct information. Just make this project as trial and error basis. And go ahead you will definitely win your set target.
Its much better shape for batterybox, much better than just square battery box.. 🌞
Good job
I know your pain with welding thick aluminum. You would have issues even with 240 volts though. I have a 180 amp welder and 240 volts in my garage and it is VERY challanging to weld 1/2 in plate aluminum. My suggestion (and I'm not sure if this will work for you) is to get it tacked up, then remove it from the jig and put a torch inside of the stem so that you can keep heat on it while you weld it.
It's also a good idea to turn you gas down as far as possible, as this will cool the weld some. Aluminum doesn't require much gas, and if you set your torch up will little tungsten stick out and the right cup, you can run very little gas.
Awesome project !
Thanks, I’ll try that
Ive pushed 12kw through a hub motor 1/4 that size 😂. If its not too late, send it back, you can get a qs138, controller, and display for less. The heavy hub will not be fun offroad. The unsprung mass is insane. Like a gyro, try leaning into a turn good luck.
best builder on RUclips 😎
Hello my name's Wellington I am Brazilian, you are very smart, congratulations, beautiful project!
I solved my problem by doing a dedicated 25 amp 110v breaker but I have a Vulcan 140 migmax unit w a spool gun for the aluminum stuff. Haven’t had a problem yet unless I’m running all out for over 10 minutes or so
How about a superMoto build. Then you’ll still be able to use that frame and suspension.
I love wathing your videos❤️
When looking at the ratings on the hub motors and controllers look to see it they are giving you the continuous rating or the peek rating. A hub motor with a continuous rating of 8k may have a peek rating of 12k. The peek ratings often have a time with them e.g. 12k watts for 3 minutes. The controllers are the same way, they will have a peek rating and a continuous rating. Some sellers will list the same motor under the peek rating and some will list them under the continuous rating.
Olá amigo sempre um projeto interessante!!!
Sempre acompanhando daqui do Brasil!
Abraço a todos aí!!!
Eu tambem!
Olá amigo @@lucasfelipe20 , esse canal aqui é fantástico, sempre com projetos Top!!!
Grande abraço!!!
And I recommend a center stringer inside the center of frame. A lot of forces in that part of frame.
I admire you a lot man congratulations for your videos I'm Brazilian I live in the northeast
Hey Chris here is a real crazy thought! 2WD Think about it.
Those motors can handle way more than what they are rated for. I have a qs273 and I push 25kw through it.
Brabo de mais
...show de bola
You can use helium gas on tig welding (just make sure its compatible for ac welding) will run much hotter for the same amps. Make sure you have a good earth clamp and try run the welder on a outlet where nothing else is also drawing current.
awesome
I have trouble welding thick aluminium too I put in a 20amp breaker so should be fine now. Or you can just run aluminium wire through your mig with argon for the thick stuff
You should consider making a centre drive electric bike. Added complexity but various benefits
You have a throttle that controls the wattage to the motor. It might be easy enough to just adjust everything for 12kw and put an adjustable throttle stop that allows you to adjust the max throttle input to make it simple for testing. BTW, so far without additional bracing, I wouldn't be jumping hard. One last part is the weight bias. The rear wheel sounded really heaving in the last video compared to a normal 250 gas engine where a lot of the weight is centered in the bike. You might get some funky bike behavior on jumps and in the corners. Most riders almost sit on the tank that the body weight is centered. You probably want to put the rear and front tire on normal foot scales and see what you get. You may change how you mount your battery and controller have you see the distribution.
I like the "BOX" welded up as the frame good thinking there ! I think you should add a fan inside the box for your controller as that box is going to get quite hot... a thematically controlled fan to kick in at say 95 deg. or so should help cool it down in there...you'll need
air vents near the bottom so you have circulation as well.... just an idea !
.... Great build keep after it ! You definitely need 220 in your shop buddy ! it would be worth the expense of the Romax !!!! that has got to be really maddening to trip the breaker like that hang in there !
When you get the 12000W controller get ferrofluid for the hub motor, pretty good at keeping the motor cooler
No ferrofluid for that way to much power needed to burn that bad boy you would have to have a like 60kw or more to do damage