"Disconnection" aka "dislocation" is a key cause of psychic pain which causes mental illness, which then leads to addiction, is a key theme of the film. All the characters are undergoing a series of artificial divisions from one another that alienates them.
This is for me a fascinating failure, almost a "disasterpiece." I agree with most of your complaints, but still find it very watchable, much more so than AUTUMN SONATA or FACE TO FACE. I think in some ways it's a meta-film about Bergman's own filmmaking. Remember, this was just after a number of prominent critics started criticizing Bergman for being a cinematic sadist, punishing his characters, usually female characters (and his audiences), in some sort of sick project attempting to get at the truth of human existence. Constance Penley in 1973: "The experience of seeing Bergman's latest film CRIES AND WHISPERS was one of being emotionally and psychically raped as, once again, a man uses women driven to the edge of experience as sacrifices for his own salvation and then calls it Art." The villain can be seen as a stand-in for Bergman, filming people suffering for the "insight" it might offer him. In that way, the film is kind of a confessional, if a very confused one. I also kind of like how truly dark it is. Outside of some horror films like SEVEN or MARTYRS, or, maybe, a couple of films noir, it's hard to think of a commercial feature film thats so stunningly pessimistic. That alone creates its own fascination. To me, in a way, it's comparable to Pasolini's SALÒ
The comparison to Salo might be a bit extreme, at least from my perspective, but I do find your take on the pessimism to be a challenge for me to come up with other dark and hopeless productions. Off the top of my head, I'm thinking movies like Irreversible and Requiem for a Dream might carry a similar bleakness though perhaps both of those are overshadowed by their stylistic choices. Both of those movies left me with the same hollow feeling of the Serpent's Egg. - David
IRREVERSIBLE is indeed an apt comparison. But it, like REQUIEM, is so slick and aesthetically controlled that it doesn't have the same disturbing sense that EGG has. The fact that it's bad in so many ways, so out of control, actually, for me, contributes to the nihilism. It's like: Bergman is so depressed now that he's lost some of his skill as a filmmaker! It's comparable, for me, to the way the aesthetically rough horror films of the late 60s and early 70s--LIVING DEAD, LAST HOUSE ON THE LEFT--with their bad acting and awkward zooms can seem more disturbing than more accomplished horror films like ROSEMARY'S BABY and THE EXORCIST.
And I remember Gloria Steinem, upon the release of Cries and Whispers, said something like, few men have as much insight into women as Bergman has. That Bergman had women problems is without doubt. He was obsessed with his own mother. There is much ugliness in his depiction of women, but even more in his depiction of men. And yet there is astonishing insight into both. He the artist of the subconscious: when he reveals his he touches on all of ours, and it can get pretty dark down there. You found something of value in Serpent's Egg, a film of little appeal to me. Good for you. Autumn Sonata is very appealing, despite its problems. It feels to me it was the first film Bergman made in which he tried to make a Bergman film. But the whole experience of it being Ingrid Bergman's last feature film (though not her last film, which was in a TV movie playing Golda Meir) is just too much gold to pass up. More on that film when we get to it.
I wouldn't call Salò a failure in any sense of the word, if that's the comparison you meant. If you ask me, that film did exactly what Pasolini wanted it to. It's not pleasant, and I can't say I could see myself going through it twice, but I have a lot more intellectual respect for it than Sade's original. (I've actually found that Sade in general interests me much more when others are talking about him or handling his material.)
I think SERPENT'S EGG is, in it's stunning negativity, "like" SALÒ. I also think THE SERPENT'S EGG is, ultimately, a failure. That's not to say, therefore, that I think SALÒ is a failure, too.
This movie, as well as From the Life of the Marionettes, makes me wonder if Bergman had seen any Fassbinder. Not that either of them are really imaginable as Fassbinder films, but he was the most major German filmmaker of his era to really take such a long, hard look at his country.
Before (and even during the project) we've watched everything from random foreign films to Hollywood blockbusters. There isn't a rule and we just go with our gut, or our interests. I can tell you Sonia has an affinity for martial arts movies while I have a habit of watching anything and everything, which means I see more junk than gems.
The mad scientist with his over done German accent reminds me of Peter Sellers in Dr. Strangelove. The shattering glass hints at KristalNacht yet to come. The Cabaret with its circus dwarfs is early Bergman revisited. Someone ought to sing Mac the Knife..
Bad Bergman is still a masterpiece when compared with most other stuff, particularly if it's considered as a satire of certain melodramatic expressionist / noir tropes about conspiracies, etc. Personally I would take this "mess" over something like Cabaret any day if I wanted to watch an intelligent cinematic take on the Weimar Republic and its cultural oeuvre. As a guilty pleasure, I also like Just a Gigolo with David Bowie over Cabaret. Yeah Carradine (absent working in an autoerotic asphyxiation scene somehow) is miscast. Given his later successful "serious" role in the King of Comedy, I imagine the actual Jew Jerry Lewis would have been a far superior "miscast" that might have made this movie a cult classic. The Day Bergmann "Tried" or something similar.
pastebin.com/2Z2kBDvW (there scroll further down to read original comments on Ingmar Bergman's The Serpent's Egg, first seen myself prob. 1988 (?), aged what?)
"Disconnection" aka "dislocation" is a key cause of psychic pain which causes mental illness, which then leads to addiction, is a key theme of the film. All the characters are undergoing a series of artificial divisions from one another that alienates them.
Very enjoyable to watch.
Nobody expects the Riksskatteverk !
This is for me a fascinating failure, almost a "disasterpiece." I agree with most of your complaints, but still find it very watchable, much more so than AUTUMN SONATA or FACE TO FACE. I think in some ways it's a meta-film about Bergman's own filmmaking. Remember, this was just after a number of prominent critics started criticizing Bergman for being a cinematic sadist, punishing his characters, usually female characters (and his audiences), in some sort of sick project attempting to get at the truth of human existence. Constance Penley in 1973: "The experience of seeing Bergman's latest film CRIES AND WHISPERS was one of being emotionally and psychically raped as, once again, a man uses women driven to the edge of experience as sacrifices for his own salvation and then calls it Art." The villain can be seen as a stand-in for Bergman, filming people suffering for the "insight" it might offer him. In that way, the film is kind of a confessional, if a very confused one. I also kind of like how truly dark it is. Outside of some horror films like SEVEN or MARTYRS, or, maybe, a couple of films noir, it's hard to think of a commercial feature film thats so stunningly pessimistic. That alone creates its own fascination. To me, in a way, it's comparable to Pasolini's SALÒ
The comparison to Salo might be a bit extreme, at least from my perspective, but I do find your take on the pessimism to be a challenge for me to come up with other dark and hopeless productions. Off the top of my head, I'm thinking movies like Irreversible and Requiem for a Dream might carry a similar bleakness though perhaps both of those are overshadowed by their stylistic choices. Both of those movies left me with the same hollow feeling of the Serpent's Egg.
- David
IRREVERSIBLE is indeed an apt comparison. But it, like REQUIEM, is so slick and aesthetically controlled that it doesn't have the same disturbing sense that EGG has. The fact that it's bad in so many ways, so out of control, actually, for me, contributes to the nihilism. It's like: Bergman is so depressed now that he's lost some of his skill as a filmmaker! It's comparable, for me, to the way the aesthetically rough horror films of the late 60s and early 70s--LIVING DEAD, LAST HOUSE ON THE LEFT--with their bad acting and awkward zooms can seem more disturbing than more accomplished horror films like ROSEMARY'S BABY and THE EXORCIST.
And I remember Gloria Steinem, upon the release of Cries and Whispers, said something like, few men have as much insight into women as Bergman has. That Bergman had women problems is without doubt. He was obsessed with his own mother. There is much ugliness in his depiction of women, but even more in his depiction of men. And yet there is astonishing insight into both. He the artist of the subconscious: when he reveals his he touches on all of ours, and it can get pretty dark down there. You found something of value in Serpent's Egg, a film of little appeal to me. Good for you. Autumn Sonata is very appealing, despite its problems. It feels to me it was the first film Bergman made in which he tried to make a Bergman film. But the whole experience of it being Ingrid Bergman's last feature film (though not her last film, which was in a TV movie playing Golda Meir) is just too much gold to pass up. More on that film when we get to it.
I wouldn't call Salò a failure in any sense of the word, if that's the comparison you meant. If you ask me, that film did exactly what Pasolini wanted it to. It's not pleasant, and I can't say I could see myself going through it twice, but I have a lot more intellectual respect for it than Sade's original. (I've actually found that Sade in general interests me much more when others are talking about him or handling his material.)
I think SERPENT'S EGG is, in it's stunning negativity, "like" SALÒ. I also think THE SERPENT'S EGG is, ultimately, a failure. That's not to say, therefore, that I think SALÒ is a failure, too.
Yes, it was a mess of a film but brilliantly done. Perfect metaphor for the mess of those horrible times. It was madness!
It had David Carradine with an earring in a Bergman film. Everything was so strange. The film still haunts me. - David
This movie, as well as From the Life of the Marionettes, makes me wonder if Bergman had seen any Fassbinder. Not that either of them are really imaginable as Fassbinder films, but he was the most major German filmmaker of his era to really take such a long, hard look at his country.
I just rewatched this film. It seems much more relevant in light of the Jan 6 insurrection in Washington DC.
I have to ask; what kind of films were you two watching together pre-BDB?
Before (and even during the project) we've watched everything from random foreign films to Hollywood blockbusters. There isn't a rule and we just go with our gut, or our interests. I can tell you Sonia has an affinity for martial arts movies while I have a habit of watching anything and everything, which means I see more junk than gems.
This film is just a "Wanna be Cabaret (1972)". No wonder was the first movie shot after the musical The Magic Flute.
Interesting comparison. - David
The mad scientist with his over done German accent reminds me of Peter Sellers in Dr. Strangelove. The shattering glass hints at KristalNacht yet to come. The Cabaret with its circus dwarfs is early Bergman revisited. Someone ought to sing Mac the Knife..
Bad Bergman is still a masterpiece when compared with most other stuff, particularly if it's considered as a satire of certain melodramatic expressionist / noir tropes about conspiracies, etc. Personally I would take this "mess" over something like Cabaret any day if I wanted to watch an intelligent cinematic take on the Weimar Republic and its cultural oeuvre. As a guilty pleasure, I also like Just a Gigolo with David Bowie over Cabaret. Yeah Carradine (absent working in an autoerotic asphyxiation scene somehow) is miscast. Given his later successful "serious" role in the King of Comedy, I imagine the actual Jew Jerry Lewis would have been a far superior "miscast" that might have made this movie a cult classic. The Day Bergmann "Tried" or something similar.
Tomatoe Tomahhttoo. Potato Potaaahhhtttoo
These two are the most cretinous critics ever.
pastebin.com/2Z2kBDvW (there scroll further down to read original comments on Ingmar Bergman's The Serpent's Egg, first seen myself prob. 1988 (?), aged what?)
Idolize HI-Dull-Eyes. Hide-Those-Lies
Realize RealEyes RealLies