Just found you with this video..subscribed! You were so relatable to the honest feelings of a Christian in these times. Thank you so much for speaking what others won't. Looking forward to your other videos!
First time listener. I really enjoyed this! Being familiar with Ken J and his books, this was a great, clear explanation of our Hope in Christ. Subbed!
@@blacksheep6888 why would you reference a text out of context. That passage is about the 2nd coming not the rapture. I would encourage you to watch the video before applying a passage out of context to the topic. Plus applying one text doesn’t make for sound doctrine.
@@mbfrommb3699 well let's find out Mathew 24:29-31 after tribulation the elect gathered Romans 11:7 the elect is Christians both jew and gentile, and if that is not enough Luke 17 read all but note the last verse says the ones taken are feeding birds. Pretribulation rapture is a grift and a lie
Gog/Magog happens AFTER the kingdom reign. The kingdom is 1000 years…. Then⬇️ Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
You are partly correct. However Context matters. In Ezekiel 38:18-23 it says 23 Thus I will magnify Myself and sanctify Myself, and I will be known in the eyes of many nations. Then they shall know that I am the Lord.” ’ Ezekiel 39 (Same war) 21 “I will set My glory among the nations; all the nations shall see My judgment which I have executed, and My hand which I have laid on them. 22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the Lord their God from that day forward. If Jesus has been reigning for 1000 years already then why does it say only after the Gog/Magog war will the nations and Israel know that He is GOD? Ezekiel 39:27 When I have brought them back from the peoples and gathered them out of their enemies’ lands, and I am hallowed in them in the sight of many nations, 28 then they shall know that I am the Lord their God, who sent them into captivity among the nations, but also brought them back to their land, and left none of them captive any longer. 29 And I will not hide My face from them anymore; for I shall have poured out My Spirit on the house of Israel,’ says the Lord God.” This contradicts Zechariah 12 and 14 Zechariah 12 at Jesus's 2nd Coming 10 “And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn. 11 In that day there shall be a great mourning in Jerusalem, like the mourning at Hadad Rimmon in the plain of [c]Megiddo. Zechariah 14 3 Then the Lord will go forth And fight against those nations, As He fights in the day of battle. 4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east. And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two, (2nd Coming) ...5b Thus the Lord my God will come, And all the saints with Him. ...9 And the Lord shall be King over all the earth. In that day it shall be-“The Lord is one,” And His name one. ...16 And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 17 And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, on them there will be no rain. 18 If the family of Egypt will not come up and enter in, they shall have no rain; they shall receive the plague with which the Lord strikes the nations who do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. The Rev 20 war is the final Gog/Magog war where the nations under the control of Satan will try to destroy Israel. The same as the nations under Gog do in Ezekiel 38+39. It's for us to see the similarities in both wars. It doesn't mean Ezekiel 38-39 happens in Rev 20. The text wouldn't make any sense in relation to the millennial kingdom. I hope this helps. Take care.
@@mbfrommb3699 It seems that we are ignoring the fact that we have two different times. We are both right. Ezekiel 38 prophesies Gog/Magog. Ezekiel 39 puts the burning of weapons in the first 7 years of the kingdom reign. Which means A Gog/Magog war occurred just prior. BUT!!!! We see them gathering AGAIN post reign when Satan is loosed “a little season” and stirs them up. Gog/Magog are defeated at the end of tribulation, but are completely snuffed out in the post reign uprising.
Excellent dissertation and presentation of doctrine. Indeed, when so many Talking Heads are on RUclips with distored, perverted ideas about Biblial Information, it is a good DWEEB FILTER to see who is really being a Disciple and who is on RUclips for fame, attention and self-recognition. How refreshing it was to see biblial eschatology being done right. Way to go MB from MB. LOL... I'm "HB fro HB" myself!
Thank you for your encouraging words. I really try to be biblically sound and to share information that is not found in other places. I have been studying this topic for over 30 years and I have seen a lot of the predictions and the theories. I feel that I have a gift for this and a deep passion for Eschatology. I try to handle every aspect I can and try to create a clear picture for Christians and non-Christians alike. PLEASE pass these videos along to Pastors, teachers, and non-believers if you find them valuable. I want them to make a positive impact. Take care. HB from HB.
@@mbfrommb3699 Have you ever heard of Pastor Chuck Smith of Calvary? When he was about to quite preaching early-on and go back to medicine, he said the Lord put on his heart, "Why don't you simply teach the bible, Simply!" And that was the formula that (always) leads to fruition and blessing by Him, since that is all we need to do. The Word speaks, and as long as we are presenting "What He said" and not we like to teach others how we felt about it, it never returns void. Simply teach the Word with simplicity and you don't have to strive for impact! You'll need to buckle up! : ) Blessings MB! hb
The caught up mystery is recorded in plain sight within the revelation, yet hidden from the masses, like parables, men fail to seek the hidden truths following men’s doctrines instead. Seek understanding of the parables. They hide the treasures of His coming in the revelation. His last parables prior arrest on the Mount address the disciples last days questions. Some of His last words. Last words extremely important. Paul pointed to a resurrection, dead rise first. Revelation records two. Adding a third or taking one away applies the curse. Men lost all fear due men dividing the body of Christ translating the term caught up.
Thank you for the comment. If I understand you correctly you're referring to Matthew 24/Mark 13 which is not about the Rapture but the 2nd Coming. Revelation records 3, not 2. Rev 4:1 Rev 11:12, Rev 20:11-14 specifically verse 13. Hope this helps. Take care.
@@hendrikjansevanrensburg8337 In John 17 Jesus is praying for His disciples. and Judas. 11 Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are. 12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition (Judas), that the Scripture might be fulfilled. Also, Matthew 24 is about the Jews and the world. The Rapture is a foreshadowing of the 2nd Coming. Both will come like a thief in the night but they are 2 separate and distinct events. I get the debate as to "when", not sure how you mean "no Rapture please."
@@mbfrommb3699 Paul pointed to the mystery, a resurrection, dead rise first, Jesus had John record two resurrections, years after His own resurrection, the mystery has to be sought to understand, otherwise one risks adding and taking away from the prophecy. Can’t be 1, 3, 4 or five last day’s resurrections, only two. Teaching any more or less risks Rev 22:18-19
@@mbfrommb3699 Corinthians 2 : 5, we must obey Christ's Words. Corinthians 15 : 23 , resurrections we have 2 for the saints and 1 for all. Paul talks about one (second one) for the saints, at Christ"s coming, same as Matthew 24 : 29 - 31. No rapture my friend, we all stay on earth till the second coming of Christ , John 17 : 15 and 20.
Revelation 3:10 10 Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth. Tereo ek tay-reh'-o Verb NAS Word Usage - Total: 71 1. to attend to carefully, take care of a. to guard b. metaph. to keep, one in the state in which he is c. to observe d. to reserve: to undergo something Ek ek Preposition NAS Word Usage - Total: 62 1. out of, from, by, away from harpazō 1) to seize, carry off by force 2) to seize on, claim for one' s self eagerly 3) to snatch out or away
What does an understanding of the New Covenant do to the Pretrib Rapture doctrine? Since the New Covenant is “everlasting” in Hebrews 13:20, how is the New Covenant Church age going to end seven years before the Second Coming of Christ? Why would anyone think God is going back to the Old Covenant system now made “obsolete” by the New Covenant in Hebrews 8:13? We are not come to Mount Sinai in Hebrews 12:18. We are come instead to the New Covenant church of Mount Zion and the blood in Hebrews 12:22-24. Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it. The Capitol "C" Church, as we use the word today, is not found in the entire Book of Revelation. Individual church bodies in ancient Asia Minor are found. In Revelation 12:11 we find those under the blood of the Lamb. A person cannot be under the blood of the Lamb and not be a part of the New Covenant Church of Jesus Christ. Verse 12 of this passage proves at least part of the tribulation period is the wrath of Satan upon the people of God. Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. "It may come as a surprise to most pre-Trib prophecy students that the post-Trib position (in its primitive form) is the oldest point of view." (The quotation above is from the book "Will You Escape The Tribulation? RAPTURE [Under Attack]", by Tim LaHaye, copyright 1998, Page 197.) Tim LaHaye was co-author of the “Left Behind” books and movies which have convinced millions of modern Christians that the Church age ends seven years before the Second Coming of Christ. Recently, Pastor Matt Furse of Mountain View Baptist Church in Custer, S.D. has written a book titled “Which One Is Right?’, which reveals the recent history of the pretrib rapture doctrine, and the fact it does not agree with what is written in the King James Bible. The gathering of the Church is described at the end of 1 Thess. Chapter 4, and the timing of the event is found in chapter 5. The word “But” in the first verse of chapter 5 connects the two chapters, and the words “we” and “sleep” in verse 10 of chapter 5 prove the two chapters are connected. The Greek words for “wrath” and “tribulation” are not the same word, as proven by the verse below. Rev 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. Watch the RUclips video “Pretribulation Paradox” by former pretrib believer skydiver626.
Never worry about when Jesus is coming back. Just know that he is. And when he does, that you need to be living your life exactly as he taught. Only those who keep the 10 Commandments of our Creator and maintain their Faith in his son, our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. and endure until the end, will be saved.
Jesus will return POST trib to take Israel into their kingdom. The Law and commandments however were only given to the Israelites. Not Eskimos . Not Asians. Not Vikings. Not Mayans. Not Celts. Hebrews. The Law was abolished on the cross. Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: To Reconcile both Circumcised and Uncircumcised Israelites. Law keeping Jews and covenant of flesh breaking Gentiles. All kindred. All the same family. Paul’s ministry is of reconciliation of the family of Israel. We sleep in…. til after the reign. Endurance to the end is for Israelite believers going through tribulation aka Jacob’s trouble. Salvation is Resurrection from death and the grave.
@@catnappd Keep the Commandments of our Father and Faith in Jesus. Those who do not keep the Commandments and their faith is dead. will die in their sins :( Do not be one of those who chooses sin over the the love of God (John 14:15) and allows their faith to die because they don't want to do the works of God (James 2:14-26).
@@catnappd I am not referring to the Mosaic laws.. I am referring to God's 10 Commandments. And if you want to believe that you don't have to keep them .. Good luck telling God that you didn't keep them because someone told you that you didn't have too.
Currently we are wheat and tares growing together (in places of worship) so the Rapture will separate the true from the false. When anti Christ comes, no one will be faking it till they make it as it will not be possible due to having to take the mark or die.
I have no issue with people having questions or different views. You're free to have your views However, this is not an accurate comment. Not only did I do a deep study on this topic, but it's a view that a number of early Christians taught. This isn't a new concept. Church father Irenaeus 180AD wrote “Against Heresies”: “When in the end that church will suddenly be caught up from this, then it is said, ‘There will be tribulation such as not been since the beginning, nor will be.’” Irenaeus “Against Heresies 5.29 Ephrem 373 AD “…because all saints and the elect of the LORD are gathered together before the Tribulation which is about to commence be taken to the LORD…” On the Last Times 2-Ephrem the Syrian 373 AD Lactantius in the second century between 100-200AD in his commentary of the Apocalypse that Rev 6:14 (which is prior to the 7 years) is when "the Church shall be taken away” Victorinus a bishop who lived in 240AD (martyred 304AD) also wrote "And the heaven withdrew as a scroll that is rolled up, for the heaven to be rolled away, that is, the Church shall be taken away. And the mountain and the islands removed from their places..." In fact, even if you don't agree with my view of the timing Revelation 11 clearly shows a Rapture event. 11 Now after the three-and-a-half days the breath of life from God entered them (the 2 witnesses), and they stood on their feet, and great fear fell on those who saw them. 12 And they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” And they ascended to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies saw them. I am curious if you watched the video or just commented on it. I don't want to be mean and I am not claiming I know everything on this topic, however, I think to be taken seriously you might want to provide some sort of an argument that gives a different perspective on the case I've made. Take care.
@mbfrommb3699 Show me the scripture with the words catching away. I want the scriptures with these words in it. U can't find any scripture because the words are jot in scripture. So this is a pretty accurate on the words not being in scripture..
@@Littlebluebird144 I don't want to be mean, but the words Trinity, and Bible, aren't in God's Word either so this to me is a weak argument. The word Rapture (English) comes from the Latin word Rapturo in the Latin Vulgate, which is translated from the Greek Harpazo, in the Greek Translation numerous times I think it's 13. Harpazo biblehub.com/greek/726.htm www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/kjv/harpazo.html 1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Notice the phrase "caught up" or Harpazo in the Greek or Rapturo in Latin or Rapture in English. Not only are we looking for the "words" but also the concept of the Rapture. That is what my video covers. I don't know who taught you this belief or where you picked it up from but it's not biblically accurate. We can debate the timing of the Rapture but it is a biblical doctrine and an old one. I hope this helps in your studies. Take care.
@@mbfrommb3699 AND I DO NOT CARE WHAT TRANSLATION U USE. THE RAPTURE IS NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN. RAPTURE WILL BE THE CAUSE IF THE GREAT FALLING AWAY CAUSE UR ALL MAD AT GOD BECAUSE HE DIDNT RAPTURE U.
@@Littlebluebird144. There is no catching away in the e-Sword app, but caught up is 1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so…
You are mis-representing what Justin Martyr said. He never said he believed in the 1000 year reign of Christ, only that John who wrote Revelation prophesized it. That falls into the category of commentary or private interpretation. One person can't interpreted scripture by themselves, only the church can with consultation of the Holy Spirit. More important the text of Revelation doesn't say that itself, unless one reads it extremely literally. At the beginning John alludes to that the revelation is an allegory. For example Babylon is an allegory for Rome (read Peter's letters and he makes the same allegory referring to Rome being Babylon. At Christ's trial before his death He says His kingdom is not of this world. The references to a new Jerusalem therefore must refer to a heavenly kingdom, not an earthly one.
@@taylormuse-22 Did you check out the dimensions of the New Jerusalem? If you take the passage literally it's nearly the size of the Moon and rises above the Earth's atmosphere more than a thousand miles. I'm pretty sure this is a metaphor for the church and the description is how God sees the church. Note - because of the dimensions, the church rises up into the heavens so as to include those on Earth as well as the saints who have ascended into Heaven after their repose.
Because it is the will of God that all come to repentance. The Tribulation sounds horrendous, and I wouldn't want anyone to go through that. There is not long to go...
@@fender97Yes. In fact it IS a Biblical event, its just that the Bible does not definitively say when and if Jesus Himself doesn't know the day nor the hour, then we certainly don't. Whether it's "pre" or "mid" tribulation should make no difference to us continually witnessing. Having said that, I discern end times events are whooshing along and I feel an imminence to things. God bless.
@@fender97The Great Tribulation is actually Jacob’s Trouble. It is for Israel. God needs to bring them to repentance. It’s between God and His people, Israel. Satan is out to destroy what God loves. Israel. The mark of the Beast is going to happen in Israel. If you don’t already live there, avoid travel there. Watch or avoid news coming out from the area. Israelites (descendants of Jacob) that take the mark will be considered fallen away. Those that are beheaded for faith or those in hiding, the wise virgins will be resurrected post trib/trouble/Wrath.
Daniel’s 70th week is 7 years. The first half is 3.5 years of “Peace&Safety” Then Satan is tossed out of Heaven and the Antichrist is the abomination of desolation. Then the last 3.5 years is The Great Tribulation aka Jacob’s trouble. Also God’s Wrath is poured out. STAY OUT of ISRAEL!
Yes it is and to ask when is silly, because scripture is clear NO MAN knows the time or the hour. We ARE told about signs and that they would be just the beginning of birthing pains, but its youtube and people can have whatever beliefs they want for whatever reason......right or wrong.
@@blacksheep6888 first who are you referring to specifically? Second, not everyone I referenced do I say beloved in a pre trib Rapture. Irenaeus doesn’t appear to, it seems he was a “mid-trib” early Christian. The point was to show early Christians believed in a Rapture which is what the video is called. The logic of Scripture shows us that there is a pre-trib rapture. Now if you can provide an alternative view regarding us not being destined for the wrath of God (Rev 6:15-17) and how the Lord removes the righteous from the unrighteous before His wrath comes (Genesis 18:23) and that His wrath comes in Rev 6 Seal 6 which is before Trumpet 6 in Rev 9 and that the 7 years begins in Revelation 11 AFTER the 6th Trumpet then I am all ears. Take care.
How many times has the rapture been predicted in the last one hundred years, the exact same amount of raptures that actually never happened.....the cycle of insanity continues with every new generation...predict...fail...predict...fail.....repeat over and over again, insanity
I want to thank you for your comment. I should have covered this in my video but I forgot and I'm glad you brought it up. I don't agree with date-setting and I don't set dates, but maybe we can better understand the reason for the errors so far. In my video I show the Rapture event discussed in John 14:1-6, and Acts 1:9-11. We are told Jesus will one day come to get us and it'll be before His 2nd Coming. We also, see that it will occur before the wrath of GOD comes in Revelation 6:12-17 (Seal 6). So this event has no prophecies that need to occur before it happens. Which makes it a sudden event. In Matthew 24 Jesus tells us that ALL these events including His 2nd Coming will happen in the "generation" that sees Israel reborn and the Jews return to the land and Jerusalem. Matthew 24:32-34. This happened in 1948, and it says these people born in 1948 will not pass away before He returns. This is why Christians since 1948 have eagerly awaited the Rapture and His Coming. We are in that generation now. However, that generation goes from 1948 to about 2050AD so yes the window has been narrowed but it's still not precise. As I explain in the video the wrath of GOD comes in response to Russia, Iran, Turkey, et al attacking Israel. Which we see is already starting. Some Christians believe the Rapture is before Seal 1in Revelation 6 but we ALL know it'll be at or before Seal 6. WW3 is Seal 4 in Revelation 6. So when I watch Christians who see Seal 1 on the horizon which is the revealing of a false Messiah www.israeltoday.co.il/read/israeli-rabbi-says-hes-already-holding-meetings-with-messiah/ ruclips.net/video/4TyoqMx2Yc8/видео.html Or Seal 4 WW3 ruclips.net/video/ak7g3T7lXIU/видео.html ruclips.net/video/-ORNvDUYgdk/видео.html ruclips.net/video/hhhl-rv6ELk/видео.html And now we see Iran, Turkey, and with Russia looking to send arms to Iran to help attack Israel. and annihilate them. So yes the rapture's date is not given to us, however, as we approach these events the Bible has predicted in advance we can know it is approaching. The world is going to go to a world war. Iran et al will attack Israel at some point. When is anyone's guess, but we are approaching these events. We will go through tough times but our hope is that Jesus has said He's preparing a place for those who believe in Him. We won't be here for His wrath. I hope this helps contextualize the errors in date-setting but not in the doctrine. take care.
2 Peter 3:3-4 NKJV knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, [4] and saying, "Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation."
Proof of A Pre trib Rapture. Pay Attention to the Cloud and Clouds Jesus appears In and With. Acts chapter 1 verses 9 10 11 Cloud. In Red Luke chapter 21 verses 27 and 28 Jesus is coming In A Cloud the Rapture. In Revelation chapter 1 verse 7 Jesus is coming With the Clouds when he comes back to the Mt of Olive the second coming KJV.
Stop hyper focusing on things that are meaningless and making assumptions and deal with the versus that make your viewpoint very difficult to hold, I'm sure you will agree that 1 Corinthians 15: 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. And 1 Thessalonians 4: 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. are the same event correct? And it also sounds exactly like Matthew 24: 31 And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Obviously this is the same event as previous 2 except this is Jesus speaking in Matthew, but if you go up a few versus you'll notice he also says 29 “Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. So now you have a few problems, you either have to say the last trumpet in Corinthians wasn't actually the last since we know you believe the dead are raptured pre trib but then another trumpet is blown After the tribulation, that's contradicting scripture, 2nd and bigger problem for pre trib is resurrections, if the dead are resurrected before the tribulation then that contradicts what John says in Revelation 20: 4 Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection. How did the people in the first resurrection get killed for refusing the mark of the beast during the tribulation? There are plenty more contradictions but I'd be typing for hours.
@@TheRyno525 I study the King James Bible just like you do. More people teach the Rapture than don't. Some believe it some don't. You believe it the way you do. I'll believe it the way I do.
If the church is really the hope of the world how does it make any sense that whenever things get bad you take the good news away. The church always shines whenever people are in the most distress because we serve a wounded healer. We serve someone that knows what it's like to be in the darkness, to be in the suffering, to be in the pain, and to feel alone. If a tribulation was in the future then that would be the time when the church would shine the brightest so why take us out before then. One of the other reasons that this exploded over the past 190 years especially in the western world, especially in America, is because it turns into a theology that kind of serves us. I mean who wants to go through suffering and who wants to go through pain especially for your enemies. It's pretty convenient to say that before things get bad that the church will be taken out. Why say that the tribulation is still yet to come and that the Rapture will happen right before a future tribulation. How do you say that the tribulation is not here with a straight face to the underground church of China. How do you say that there's a future tribulation, just not a present one, to the Christians in Haiti, or to Christians in Iraq, Iran, or North Korea. How do you say with the straight face to the Coptic Christians who are being beheaded in Libya that tribulation is yet to come. It's a convenient theology when the worst persecution that you have is taking Merry Christmas away from the door greeters at Walmart. But the history of the world and of the church is one saturated with the blood of the martyrs. The tribulation has been raging since Jesus hung on a cross and there is not some future thing that allows us to be able to escape some suffering. The more that we are obedient to Christ, the more that suffering comes it kind of goes with the territory.
Thank you for your comment. I am just curious did you watch the video? If you did great but then I don’t know if I communicated this well because most of this should have been answered. If you watched it and didn’t get the answers you seek then I might need to approach my videos differently. You say that I am saying these things when #1 it’s long been taught by Christians and it’s in Scripture. These aren’t new ideas, they are teachings that many Christians just aren’t taught. The Church IS NOT the hope of the world Jesus is. The Church is a tool the LORD uses but the last Church in Revelation 3 is shown to be useless. there are a number os passages where Scripture rebukes the Believers of today. For example, 2 Chronicles 7:14 when we see our nations a mess and we blame the LOST the LORD says “14 If My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land. The Church is very wicked these days but is thoroughly convinced it’s godly. It’s very confused in its doctrines, it’s divided, many Christians don’t know how we are even saved, or what happens, or what it means. That’s a problem. The worse things get the more Christians will blame the lost, the more self-righteous they become and the more they wrestle with people and not with the principalities of darkness (Ephesians 6:12) However we are saved, we are covered by His blood and so we are saved from His wrath. The term 7 year tribulation is a modern term we made up. Scripture calls it the 70th week. So when you think of tribulation you think of tough times. When I think of Daniel’s 70th week, I think of as a fixed period of time of 7 years. Daniel 9:27 specifically speaks of a peace agreement between the nations facilitated by the False Messiah aka the Antichrist on behalf of Israel with the nations. It's a specific event that begins a specific period of time before Jesus returns. The world is going to get dark and we will go through it until the LORD Rapture’s us go through some very difficult times that men have created. The Rapture is to save us from the Wrath of GOD. It’s not to escape hard times, or persecution , or even martyrdom. It’s to escape the wrath of GOD when it comes. I think I make that clear in my video. We may see Seals 1-5 but Seal 6 is when the Wrath of GOD comes. Rev 6:15-17. We are not destined for His wrath because of His blood Romans 5:8-9, 1 Thessalonians 8-10, John 3:36. His Wrath comes in Seal 6 which is before Seal 7 (Rev 8:1) Which is before Trumpet 1 Rev 8:7) Which is before Trumpet 6 (Rev 9) which Trumpet 6 is before Trumpet 7 (Rev 11:15) Between Trumpet 6 in Rev 9 and Trumpet 7 in Rev 11:15 we see the 7 years begin in Revelation 11:3-7.) So the Rapture which saves us from His wrath, comes before the 7 years begin in Rev 11. The tribulation from a biblical standpoint has nothing to do with tough times. It’s a period of time 7 years (Daniel’s 70th week) where specific events happen before Jesus returns. That’s why it’s important for Christians to define terms and actually understand them. I hope this clarifies things for you.
@@mbfrommb3699 Revelation 1:1-3: The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants-things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John, who bore witness to the word of God, and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, to all things that he saw. Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near. I see the word “signified”, in verse 1,when seeking to interpret the book. The Greek word translated “signified” means “to make known in symbols.” Symbols point to spiritual realities. The symbols are not reality: they point to a deeper reality. We must be constantly asking: What did the author intend by the symbol he used? John nowhere formally quotes an Old Testament passage. Instead, he uses allusions. Scholars have identified a large number of them. It’s not just words that are symbolic, but also numbers, time periods, and colors. Daniel 9:1,2 : In the first year of Darius the son of Ahasuerus, by descent a Mede, who was made king over the realm of the Chaldeans-in the first year of his reign, I, Daniel, perceived in the books the number of years that, according to the word of the Lord to Jeremiah the prophet, must pass before the end of the desolations of Jerusalem, namely, seventy years. This what I understand plainly about the 70 weeks of Daniel because it was fulfilled. Dispensational Premillennialism hasn’t been consistantly taught by Christians from Scripture. It wasn’t until John Nelson Darby put feet to it that it then took off almost 200 years ago. How is it that Daniel prophecied: And the kingdom and the dominion and the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven shall be given to the people of the saints of the Most High; his kingdom shall be an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.’ The church is that fulfillment of the kingdom and it very much is the hope of the world. I don’t speak of the universal church as representing religious groups claiming to follow Jesus, but only those who are truly the saved. Since the U.S. is not a Christian and/or Jewish nation, then how does 2 Chronicles 7:14 have anything to do with the it?
@@lavieenrose5954 Part 1/2 I know this is what you've been taught but it's false. We know this because we have multiple sources. Mark 11 Jesus curses the Fig Tree and it dies. This indicated that Jeremiah 8:13 was about to come to pass. That every blessing the LORD had given the Jews would be taken from them. Which He did from 70-135AD. The Temple was destroyed, and Jerusalem was destroyed. They were exiled from the land and the Romans renamed the land "Palestine" after the Philistines to mock the Jews. You can see a study here: ruclips.net/video/oja6HDre2k8/видео.html But in Mark 13 in connection to His return, Jesus says: 8 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender, and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 29 So you also, when you see these things happening, know that He is near-at the doors! 30 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. This is the OPPOSITE of 70-135AD. In Mark 11 the tree was cursed and died. Here it blooms again. Jesus is telling us when we see Mark 11 reversed that is the generation we should look for His return. When we see Israel become a nation again, when we see the Jews in Jerusalem and Judea again. When we see them rebuild the Temple again. That is the generation. Part of the signs in Mark 13 is 14 “So when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not” (let the reader understand), “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Daniel 9:27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate.” My study on the 70 weeks ruclips.net/video/xqQ5jdl84sM/видео.html We know the 70th week is a 7 year period based on a 360 day Hebrew calendar so it's 2,520 days or divided into 2 is 1,260 days + 1,260 days. or 3.5 years + 3.5 years = 7 years Revelation 11:3 And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.” We see these 2 witnesses are invincible in verses 5-6 5 And if anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouth and devours their enemies. And if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this manner. 6 These have power to shut heaven, so that no rain falls in the days of their prophecy; and they have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to strike the earth with all plagues, as often as they desire. (This never happened in the first century) Verse 7 When they (the 2 witnesses) finish their testimony (1,260 days), the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them. Revelation 13:1 Then I stood on the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads a blasphemous name. We see that Revelation 17 confirms this beast is the one who kills the 2 witnesses. Rev 17:7 But the angel said to me, “Why did you marvel? I will tell you the mystery of the woman and of the beast that carries her, which has the seven heads and the ten horns. 8 The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to perdition. Rev 13 the beast suffers a head wound and survives 4 So they worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?” 5 And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority for forty-two months. 6 Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven. 7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation. 42 months is 3.5 years. The 2 invincible witnesses preach for 1,260 days (3.5 years) then the beat rises and kills them and is given authority over the earth for 42 months (3.5 years) = 7 years. (Continued in Part 2)
@@lavieenrose5954 Part 2/2 We have early Christians who wrote about this. The disciple Barnabas, Irenaeus, and Hippolytus. The Apostle John discipled Polycarp, Polycarp discipled Irenaeus, and Irenaeus discipled Hippolytus. Barnabas, AD First Century “Therefore, children, in six days, or in six thousand years, all the prophecies will be fulfilled. Then it says, ‘He rested on the seventh day.’ This signifies at the Second Coming of our Lord Jesus, He will destroy the Antichrist, judge the ungodly, and change the sun, moon, and stars. Then He will truly rest during the Millennial reign, which is the seventh day.” Epistle of Barnabas 15:7-9 (Jesus lived in the year 4000. So Barnabas is not talking about the Antichrist in the first century. But now 2000 years later we are approaching the year 6000). Barnabas - (First Century) “You can perceive that their hope is vain. Furthermore, the Lord said, ‘Behold, they who destroy this temple, even they will again build it up once more.’ This prophecy was fulfilled because the Jews went to war against their enemy. But even though they are now no more than servants to Rome, they will return and rebuild the temple. It was revealed that the city of Jerusalem, the temple, and the people of Israel were to be given up.” Epistle of Barnabas 16:5-7 Irenaeus (about 180 AD) wrote his 5 volume work called “Against Heresies” “In 2 Thessalonians, the ‘falling away’ is an apostasy and there will be a literal rebuilt temple. In Matthew, the ‘abomination spoken by Daniel’ is the Antichrist sitting in the temple as if he were Christ. The abomination will start in the middle of Daniel’s 70th week and last for a literal three years and six months. The little horn is the Antichrist. Against Heresies 5.25 Hippolytus (170-235AD): On the End of the World A Discourse by the Most Blessed Hippolytus, Bishop and Martyr, on the End of the World, and on Antichrist, and on the Second Coming of Our Lord Jesus Christ. "...And after that he (Antichrist) will build the temple in Jerusalem (notice a literal building), and will restore it again speedily, and give it over to the Jews. And then he will be lifted up in heart against every man; yea, he will speak blasphemy also against God, thinking in his deceit that he shall be king upon the earth hereafter forever; not knowing, miserable wretch, that his kingdom is to be quickly brought to naught, and that he will quickly have to meet the fire which is prepared for him, along with all who trust him and serve him. For when Daniel said, “I shall make my covenant for one week,” Daniel 9:27 he indicated seven years; and the one half of the week is for the preaching of the prophets, and for the other half of the week - that is to say, for three years and a half -Antichrist will reign upon the earth. And after this his kingdom and his glory shall be taken away." Hippolytus (170-235 AD) wrote a 67 section/ chapter writing called "The Antichrist - a Treatise on Christ and Antichrist" "Now Daniel will set forth this subject to us. For he says, “And one week will make a covenant with many, and it shall be that in the midst of the week my sacrifice and oblation shall cease.” Daniel 9:27 By one week (7 years), therefore, he meant the last week which is to be at the end of the whole world, of which week the two prophets Enoch and Elias will take up the half (1,260 days = 3.5 years). For they will preach 1,260 days clothed in sackcloth, proclaiming repentance to the people and to all the nations." ...For John says, “And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.” Revelation 11:3 That is the half of the week that Daniel spoke about. “These are the two olive trees and the two candlesticks standing before the Lord of the earth. And if any man will hurt them, fire will proceed out of their mouth, and devour their enemies; and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy; and have power over waters, to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues as often as they will.” Revelation 11:4-6 And when they shall have finished their course and their testimony, what does the prophet say? “the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them,” Revelation 11:7 because they will not give glory to Antichrist. For this is meant by the little horn that grows up. He, being now elated in heart, begins to exalt himself, and to glorify himself as God, persecuting the saints and blaspheming Christ, even as Daniel says, “I considered the horns, and, behold, in the horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things; and he opened his mouth to blaspheme God. And that born made war against the saints, and prevailed against them until the beast was slain, and perished, and his body was given to be burned.” Daniel 7:8 I encourage you to watch my videos and you can decide but I hope this helps clarify that whatever you may have been taught isn't backed up by Scripture or early Christians. In fact in Matthew 24 a parallel to Mark 13 Jesus says 3 times "All these things" and in Matthew 24: 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come. Well, we know the Gospel hadn't gone out to the whole world so Jesus was not talking about the first century since this never happened. This is just 1 example in the chapter of events that never happened in the first century. So what we should expect is that if the 70th week is approaching now, are we seeing a movement to rebuild the Temple that will be defiled? Yes. ruclips.net/video/La7dGSlq2Fk/видео.html Yes Jesus is the final sacrifice but not everyone knows about Jesus. Paul writes in Romans 11 that GOD for a time has blinded the Jews to the identity of the Messiah so that we the Gentiles might be saved but there is coming a time when the blinders will be removed and they will anoint Him as the Most High (Daniel 9:24). Part of the 70 weeks is the promise that the Jews and Jerusalem will anoint Jesus as the Most High. They haven't so therefore the purpose of the 70 weeks has not happened and is not fulfilled. We as Christians are the first fruits, the first ones the Holy Spirit has revealed to us the identity of Jesus as the Messiah and His mission. But we are not the last. Understanding prophecy is understanding who is saved when and how so we can watch it unfold. Sadly, this topic has been muddled in confusion for too long. I am trying to bring clarity to the topic. Thank you for your comment, again I hope this helps. Take care.
Dear fellow believer in Jesus, unfortunately, you are incorrect!! In John14: 1-3, he does not say "HEAVEN," yet the belief is when Jesus returns. He brings The Kingdom of Heaven to EARTH. 1thess4: 13-17 tells us the dead disembodied souls return with Jesus, and Jesus resurrects the corrupted bodies that put on incorruptible in a moment in the twinkling of an eye! The resurrection of the dead righteous believers. Then, the living righteous believers' mortal bodies put on immortality!! Catching up harpazo gathering together or rapture (snatched) carried by angels matt24: 29-31 in a moment in the twinkling of an eye. 1cor15: 51,52. 1thess4: 13-17. Resurrection first, then rapture. We meet Jesus in the air. As Jesus continues to descend to Jerusalem. Zechariah 14. Your false pretrib rapture doctrine and the false definitions are messing up you and others from PREPARING!!. 1. When Jesus returns, He resurrects the dead FIRST and then has the angels catch up the living . All in a moment in the twinkling of an eye. 2. Matt24: 42-44. No one knows the date or the hour. And Jesus comes as a thief. 2peter3: 10 Jesus returns called The Day of the Lord. Jesus comes as a thief. 1thess5: 1-6 The DAY of the Lord comes as a thief BUT NOT TO THE LIVING BELIEVERS??? no one knows the date or hour, but obviously, the living believers at that time will know it's very close!!! Rev16:15 after the 6th bowl Jesus interjects saying " behold I come as a thief...."??? The only place in revelation to use this term??? 3. The timing of rapture is obviously tied in to the resurrection of the dead righteous believers because 1thess4:13-17 clearly states tge the resurrection is FIRST, BEFORE THE RAPTURE! My contention is that the resurrection of the dead righteous believers is KEY. 4. Resurrection day?? The resurrection of the dead righteous believers??? Let's investigate. 1cor15: 51,52 tells us this takes place at the LAST TRUMPET. John 6: 39,40,44,54 FOUR TIMES Jesus said he will resurrect the dead righteous believers on the Last day. 1thess5: 1-6 Jesus comes as a thief. 1thess4: 13-17 Jesus returns resurrects the righteous first, then rapture !! Daniel 12:2 we are told of 2 resurrections. 1 of the righteous into eternal life and the other the condemned to eternal contempt. Rev20: 4-15 we see 2 resurrections THE FIRST resurrection of the righteous into eternal life. The 2nd resurrection is the condemned to eternal contempt (lake of fire). Rev20: 4-6 notice the FIRST resurrection includes martyrs of the tribulation refusing the mark of the beast making the resurrection of the dead righteous believers on resurrection day POSTTRIB. Making the catching up harpazo gathering together or rapture POSTTRIB! Repent from the false pretrib rapture doctrine and prepare. All these signs we are seeing yell is the antichrist is soon. The digital currency biometrics and the implanted digital ID is ready!!! Prepare. Matt24: 45-47 a wise and faithful servant prepares for the due season and is SO DOING WHEN JESUS RETURNS. Prepare spiritually for martyrdom and prepare physically supplies for the due season of the mark of the beast and antichrist and tribulation!! Matt25: 1-13 the midnight cry is the revealing of antichrist, unprepared foolish will be rejected because they take the mark of the beast (the apostasy of 2thess2) the wise prepared are ready for martyrdom and physically supplies!! I don't care what polycarp or any of the historical figures say. I stick with Jesus and the apostles including Paul the Holy Scriptures!!
I don't want to be mean but your first point In John14: 1-3, he does not say "HEAVEN," Is debunked in Act 1 which is also discussed in the video. 11 who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.” So the argument about John 14:1-6 starts off with an error. Second, I never said the first Rapture was the last. In fact the Bible is clear Revelation 11 is also a Rapture. 11 Now after the three-and-a-half days the breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and great fear fell on those who saw them. 12 And [e]they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” And they ascended to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies saw them. 13 In the same hour there was a great earthquake, and a tenth of the city fell. In the earthquake seven thousand people were killed, and the rest were afraid and gave glory to the God of heaven. You don't address this Rapture event either. You don't address the fact that by the blood of Jesus we are saved from His wrath which I also cover in the video John 3:36, Romans 5:8-9, 1 Thess 5:8-11 1 Thess 5:8 But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation. 9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him. 11 Therefore comfort each other and edify one another, just as you also are doing. So the final Rapture which you have stated is "1. When Jesus returns, He resurrects the dead FIRST and then has the angels catch up the living." Does not deal with the fact that there are various times where the LORD's wrath is mentioned prior to His return. Rev 6:15-17, Rev 16, etc. So how can we be here to endure His wrath when we are not destined for His wrath by His blood. You also never deal with Genesis 18. Genesis 18 Abraham asks the LORD when the LORD says He will destroy Sodom and Gomorrah which have righteous and unrighteous people like the nations do today as there are Christians all over the world. Genesis 18:23 And Abraham came near and said, “Would You also destroy the righteous with the wicked? 24 Suppose there were fifty righteous within the city; would You also destroy the place and not spare it for the fifty righteous that were in it? 25 Far be it from You to do such a thing as this, to slay the righteous with the wicked, so that the righteous should be as the wicked; far be it from You! Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?” 26 So the Lord said, “If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes.” the LORD spares us today because of the Righteous; because of Believers. We are the buffer from His wrath. However, we know from Scripture His wrath will come so logically there are only 2 ways He will remove Christians first. #1 death. He will kill us all off so there are no righteous and then His wrath comes, or #2 The Rapture to remove al the righteous so that His wrath can come. We see His Wrath comes in Rev 6:15-17 which is the 6th Seal. The 7th Seal is broken BEFORE Trumpet #1 and we see the 7 year period, the 70th week begin in Revelation 11 AFTER Trumpet 6 and Before Trumpet 7. I don't disagree that there is a Rapture event at the 2nd Coming. What I don't agree with is that it's the FIRST Rapture event. I would encourage you to study the Scriptures more. take care.
@mbfrommb3699 wow such mighty definitions you give!! Except I can not go through the list in its entirety now I will reply again! With a kust of rebuttal!.
@@77saint77posttrib I don't disagree there will be a resurrection of the dead at the 2nd Coming. Instead of a rebuttal why not ponder the idea that before each stage of Judgment GOD removes the righteous? If we are saved from His wrath by His blood and in Genesis 18-19 He removes the righteous BEFORE His wrath comes, then why can't we have a conversation about His wrath coming for the first time in Revelation 6:15-17 so the first removal of the righteous from the earth is BEFORE Rev 6:15-17? Which is BEFORE the 7 years in Rev 11 (After Trumpet 6 and before Trumpet 7). Then we see another resurrection event in Rev 11:11 Now after the three-and-a-half days the breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and great fear fell on those who saw them. 12 And they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” And they ascended to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies saw them. 13 In the same hour there was a great earthquake, and a tenth of the city fell. In the earthquake seven thousand people were killed, and the rest were afraid and gave glory to the God of heaven." Then His wrath comes again in Revelation 15-16 Rev 15:1 Then I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvelous: seven angels having the seven last plagues, for in them the wrath of God is complete. Rev 16:1 Then I heard a loud voice from the temple saying to the seven angels, “Go and pour out the bowls of the wrath of God on the earth.” I think this is a more productive conversation. We are righteous now by His blood. So I believe that for His wrath to come in Rev 6:15-17 all of need to be removed (like Lot and his family were). Then His wrath comes because for a moment there are no saved on the earth. Then because of the events people who were unbelievers at the Rapture come to Jesus. Rev 7:9-14 Then in Rev 11 another harvest of the righteous take place and then His wrath comes again and then at the 2nd Coming another resurrection of believers takes place. But it's not a Rapture because we are all here to enter his Kingdom on earth. The last "batch" is just transformed into their glorified bodies. Both views can be true at the same time. What I disagree with is that the Post Trib Rapture view says it's the ONLY and FIRST rapture in the timeline. I don't deny the event. My view is that it's NOT the only and or first. I hope this helps. Take care.
@mbfrommb3699 dear fellow believer in Jesus. May I add to your list. Also the 144,000 that are redeemed from the earth . I didn't mention that either. Mostly the scriptures that you give have valid truth in them yet I'm afraid they don't come close to changing the meaning of 1thess4: 13-17 connected with Rev20: 4-6. Obviously the 2 witnesses are raised from the dead and caught up!! What I'm referring to is called RESURRECTION DAY! When the disembodied souls of the righteous are reconnected with their raised glorified bodies first and then the living believers mortal bodies and are changed to glorified bodies and caught up. I refer you to what Jesus said in john11:25,26. After Martha had said " yes I know he will be raised in the RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD ON THE LAST DAY. Jesus said in John11: 25,26 he that believes in me though he were dead yet shall he live.( resurrection) he that believes in me and is alive shall NEVER DIE. Rapture. The only ones that never due are the living believers ratured when Jesus returns POSTTRIB. May I rebuttal against your theory about The Wrath that ALL believers are saved from. Here in 1thess5:1-11 notice that the day of the Lord comes as a thief yet not to the living believers because even though they don't know the date or the hour they know the close timing. When Paul mention where dead or alive we will all be with Jesus where he is. If the wrath of God is the seals trumpets and bowls that Paul refers to as the wrath that we are all saved from then Paul would not refer to those that SLEEP because they are dead already. The only logical conclusion would be that every generation of believers dead or alive is saved from the ultimate Wrath which is rev20: 14,15!! The scriptures that you gave in no way refer to a pretrib resurrection and rapture. In fact most of the tribulation on believers is the war against the believers by the beast rev13. The martyrdom that will be an endurance to the end. Whether the end of one's life by martyrdom or the end when Jesus returns. The comfort one another with these words at tge end of 1thess5 also does not refer to a pretrib resurrection and rapture. Although it does refer to resurrection and rapture clearly POSTTRIB. Now some would say why POSTTRIB?? I would say Why would Father God and Jesus through the Holy Spirit take us out of the world during the greatest spiritual battle of ALL TIME?? This iscwhen the believers will shine the brightest. 1. As martyrs dying for the Word of God and our testimony of Jesus. 2. As wise prepared for the due season of the mark of the beast and antichrist and tribulation. 3. Helping others to refuse the mark of the beast 4. The latter rain referring to a double portion of the Holy Spirit for exploits during that time 5. Enduring to the end and knowing that after the revealing of antichrist causing the abomination of desolation there are only 1290 days yet not knowing the date or the hour! Even though there appears to be a false definition of the wrath that believers are saved from, I would like to give 2 last verses on the matter. 1. John 17:15. Jesus says" I pray NOT that you take them out of the world but that you KEEP them FROM the evil. Keep FROM means protection. 2. Rev3:10 to the unrebuked church of Philadelphia (a type of believer unrebuked) I will KEEP you FROM the hour that comes on the whole world!! Not removal but PROTECTION!! 3. I rarely quote the OT, yet there are so much. I will only remind you of the wrath of God on Egypt and the hebrews were PROTECTED in the midst. So will the living believers be protected in the midst of the seals trumpets and bowls!! Thank you for the conversation. Finally my only purpose is to help the false pretrib rapture doctrine believers find the truth of posttrib so as to be prepared. Matt25: 1-13..grace and mercy
@mbfrommb3699 dear fellow believer in Jesus. I truly enjoy your expose'. And the conversation is righteous. We are all seeking truth. Yet unfortunately some of your scriptures that you give you are adding false definitions ( not on purpose) I was well verse and indoctrinated in the pretrib rapture doctrine from the 70s 80s and 90s. As I grew in understanding of scripture I began to see how false definitions were constantly causing fellow believers to be in error about the false pretrib rapture doctrine. If you restudy these scriptures and find the foundation of truth in the posttrib resurrection and rapture at Jesus 2nf coming you will be able to overcome the false definitions. 1. Resurrection of the dead righteous believers on resurrection day.john6: 39,40,44,54. Last day. 2. Resurrection of the dead righteous believers 1 cor15: 51,52. Last trumpet 3. First resurrection of the dead righteous believers Rev20: 4-6. Includes martyrs of the tribulation refusing the mark of the beast 4. The resurrection of the dead righteous believers happens FIRST BEFORE the catching up harpazo gathering together or rapture 1thess4: 13-17. 5. Only 2 main resurrections 1 is the righteous into eternal life and the other is the condemned to eternal contempt Daniel 12:2. 6. Only 2 main resurrections the FIRST resurrection is the righteous into eternal life Includes martyrs of the tribulation refusing the mark of the beast and the 2nd resurrection is the condemned to eternal contempt ( lake of fire) Rev20: 4-15. All the scriptures in the old and new testaments may seem to have some different details but will ultimately be equivalent. Depending on what definition is given. Stick with the foundations of The living believers are not going anywhere until the last day last trumpet after the antichrist is revealed after the 6th bowl rev16:15, after the first resurrection after the tribulation at the return of Jesus on the Day of the Lord!!
The Rapture, ad nauseum! as the saying about opinions, everyone has one. Those that as so firmly set about a pre-tribulation rapture are simply the ones that are afraid of the tribulation. Isiah 46:8 Remember this, and shew yourselves men: bring it again to mind, O ye transgressors. 9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, 10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: IF THE ETERNAL ONE IS DECLARING THE END FROMN THE BEGINNING, show me where in the beginning the pretribulation rapture. It is ONLY an OPINION by people that do not understand the Eternals time line of events.
True everyone has an opinion, however I'm not sure you watched the video. you ask "show me where in the beginning the pretribulation rapture." Genesis 6 and Genesis 18. I dissect Genesis 18 to show how logically and biblically we see what we would call a "Pre-tribulation Rapture" A lot of Christians get the timing of the 7 year period so then the bible study about the Rapture becomes skewed. For example, understanding the events in order shows that if you are a "Pre 7 year or a Pre-Trib" Rapture believer or a Pre-wrath Rapture believer the conclusion is the same. The Rapture is both pre-7 years and pre-wrath. So we see it in Genesis and throughout the New Testament. You're free to believe what you want. I just think that this view is the most logical, rational, and biblically based. My opinion is irrelevant.
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Praise The LORD! God bless you in Jesus mighty name, Amen
Just found you with this video..subscribed! You were so relatable to the honest feelings of a Christian in these times. Thank you so much for speaking what others won't. Looking forward to your other videos!
@@lorrainemarchesano3651 Thank you. I am so glad it helped and was a blessing. Take care.
First time listener. I really enjoyed this! Being familiar with Ken J and his books, this was a great, clear explanation of our Hope in Christ. Subbed!
Thank you. I am glad it was a blessing. I hope my other videos can also be a blessing as well. Take care.
There is no pretribulation rapture Mathew 24:29-31
@@blacksheep6888 why would you reference a text out of context. That passage is about the 2nd coming not the rapture. I would encourage you to watch the video before applying a passage out of context to the topic. Plus applying one text doesn’t make for sound doctrine.
@@mbfrommb3699 well let's find out Mathew 24:29-31 after tribulation the elect gathered Romans 11:7 the elect is Christians both jew and gentile, and if that is not enough Luke 17 read all but note the last verse says the ones taken are feeding birds. Pretribulation rapture is a grift and a lie
Gog/Magog happens AFTER the kingdom reign. The kingdom is 1000 years…. Then⬇️
Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
You are partly correct. However Context matters.
In Ezekiel 38:18-23 it says
23 Thus I will magnify Myself and sanctify Myself, and I will be known in the eyes of many nations. Then they shall know that I am the Lord.” ’
Ezekiel 39 (Same war)
21 “I will set My glory among the nations; all the nations shall see My judgment which I have executed, and My hand which I have laid on them. 22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the Lord their God from that day forward.
If Jesus has been reigning for 1000 years already then why does it say only after the Gog/Magog war will the nations and Israel know that He is GOD?
Ezekiel 39:27 When I have brought them back from the peoples and gathered them out of their enemies’ lands, and I am hallowed in them in the sight of many nations, 28 then they shall know that I am the Lord their God, who sent them into captivity among the nations, but also brought them back to their land, and left none of them captive any longer. 29 And I will not hide My face from them anymore; for I shall have poured out My Spirit on the house of Israel,’ says the Lord God.”
This contradicts Zechariah 12 and 14
Zechariah 12 at Jesus's 2nd Coming
10 “And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn. 11 In that day there shall be a great mourning in Jerusalem, like the mourning at Hadad Rimmon in the plain of [c]Megiddo.
Zechariah 14
3 Then the Lord will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
(2nd Coming)
...5b Thus the Lord my God will come,
And all the saints with Him.
...9 And the Lord shall be King over all the earth.
In that day it shall be-“The Lord is one,”
And His name one.
...16 And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 17 And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, on them there will be no rain. 18 If the family of Egypt will not come up and enter in, they shall have no rain; they shall receive the plague with which the Lord strikes the nations who do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.
The Rev 20 war is the final Gog/Magog war where the nations under the control of Satan will try to destroy Israel. The same as the nations under Gog do in Ezekiel 38+39. It's for us to see the similarities in both wars. It doesn't mean Ezekiel 38-39 happens in Rev 20. The text wouldn't make any sense in relation to the millennial kingdom.
I hope this helps. Take care.
@@mbfrommb3699 It seems that we are ignoring the fact that we have two different times. We are both right.
Ezekiel 38 prophesies Gog/Magog. Ezekiel 39 puts the burning of weapons in the first 7 years of the kingdom reign. Which means A Gog/Magog war occurred just prior. BUT!!!! We see them gathering AGAIN post reign when Satan is loosed “a little season” and stirs them up.
Gog/Magog are defeated at the end of tribulation, but are completely snuffed out in the post reign uprising.
@@mbfrommb3699 Of course context matters.
Absolutely biblical for the elect the days will be shortened because we are the ones who believe in Jesus the Lord and Savior
Excellent dissertation and presentation of doctrine. Indeed, when so many Talking Heads are on RUclips with distored, perverted ideas about Biblial Information, it is a good DWEEB FILTER to see who is really being a Disciple and who is on RUclips for fame, attention and self-recognition. How refreshing it was to see biblial eschatology being done right. Way to go MB from MB. LOL... I'm "HB fro HB" myself!
Thank you for your encouraging words. I really try to be biblically sound and to share information that is not found in other places. I have been studying this topic for over 30 years and I have seen a lot of the predictions and the theories. I feel that I have a gift for this and a deep passion for Eschatology. I try to handle every aspect I can and try to create a clear picture for Christians and non-Christians alike. PLEASE pass these videos along to Pastors, teachers, and non-believers if you find them valuable. I want them to make a positive impact. Take care. HB from HB.
@@mbfrommb3699 Have you ever heard of Pastor Chuck Smith of Calvary? When he was about to quite preaching early-on and go back to medicine, he said the Lord put on his heart, "Why don't you simply teach the bible, Simply!" And that was the formula that (always) leads to fruition and blessing by Him, since that is all we need to do. The Word speaks, and as long as we are presenting "What He said" and not we like to teach others how we felt about it, it never returns void. Simply teach the Word with simplicity and you don't have to strive for impact! You'll need to buckle up! : ) Blessings MB! hb
The caught up mystery is recorded in plain sight within the revelation, yet hidden from the masses, like parables, men fail to seek the hidden truths following men’s doctrines instead.
Seek understanding of the parables. They hide the treasures of His coming in the revelation. His last parables prior arrest on the Mount address the disciples last days questions.
Some of His last words. Last words extremely important.
Paul pointed to a resurrection, dead rise first. Revelation records two. Adding a third or taking one away applies the curse. Men lost all fear due men dividing the body of Christ translating the term caught up.
No rapture please. John 17 : 15 and 20 , Matthew 24 : 29 - 31.
Thank you for the comment. If I understand you correctly you're referring to Matthew 24/Mark 13 which is not about the Rapture but the 2nd Coming. Revelation records 3, not 2. Rev 4:1 Rev 11:12, Rev 20:11-14 specifically verse 13.
Hope this helps. Take care.
@@hendrikjansevanrensburg8337
In John 17 Jesus is praying for His disciples.
and Judas.
11 Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are. 12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition (Judas), that the Scripture might be fulfilled.
Also, Matthew 24 is about the Jews and the world. The Rapture is a foreshadowing of the 2nd Coming. Both will come like a thief in the night but they are 2 separate and distinct events.
I get the debate as to "when", not sure how you mean "no Rapture please."
@@mbfrommb3699 Paul pointed to the mystery, a resurrection, dead rise first, Jesus had John record two resurrections, years after His own resurrection, the mystery has to be sought to understand, otherwise one risks adding and taking away from the prophecy.
Can’t be 1, 3, 4 or five last day’s resurrections, only two. Teaching any more or less risks Rev 22:18-19
@@mbfrommb3699 Corinthians 2 : 5, we must obey Christ's Words.
Corinthians 15 : 23 , resurrections we have 2 for the saints and 1 for all.
Paul talks about one (second one) for the saints, at Christ"s coming, same as Matthew 24 : 29 - 31.
No rapture my friend, we all stay on earth till the second coming of Christ , John 17 : 15 and 20.
Revelation 3:10
10 Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth.
Tereo ek
tay-reh'-o
Verb
NAS Word Usage - Total: 71
1. to attend to carefully, take care of
a. to guard
b. metaph. to keep, one in the state in which he is
c. to observe
d. to reserve: to undergo something
Ek
ek
Preposition
NAS Word Usage - Total: 62
1. out of, from, by, away from
harpazō
1) to seize, carry off by force
2) to seize on, claim for one' s self eagerly
3) to snatch out or away
What does an understanding of the New Covenant do to the Pretrib Rapture doctrine?
Since the New Covenant is “everlasting” in Hebrews 13:20, how is the New Covenant Church age going to end seven years before the Second Coming of Christ? Why would anyone think God is going back to the Old Covenant system now made “obsolete” by the New Covenant in Hebrews 8:13? We are not come to Mount Sinai in Hebrews 12:18. We are come instead to the New Covenant church of Mount Zion and the blood in Hebrews 12:22-24.
Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it.
The Capitol "C" Church, as we use the word today, is not found in the entire Book of Revelation. Individual church bodies in ancient Asia Minor are found. In Revelation 12:11 we find those under the blood of the Lamb. A person cannot be under the blood of the Lamb and not be a part of the New Covenant Church of Jesus Christ. Verse 12 of this passage proves at least part of the tribulation period is the wrath of Satan upon the people of God.
Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
"It may come as a surprise to most pre-Trib prophecy students that the post-Trib position (in its primitive form) is the oldest point of view."
(The quotation above is from the book "Will You Escape The Tribulation? RAPTURE [Under Attack]", by Tim LaHaye, copyright 1998, Page 197.) Tim LaHaye was co-author of the “Left Behind” books and movies which have convinced millions of modern Christians that the Church age ends seven years before the Second Coming of Christ. Recently, Pastor Matt Furse of Mountain View Baptist Church in Custer, S.D. has written a book titled “Which One Is Right?’, which reveals the recent history of the pretrib rapture doctrine, and the fact it does not agree with what is written in the King James Bible.
The gathering of the Church is described at the end of 1 Thess. Chapter 4, and the timing of the event is found in chapter 5. The word “But” in the first verse of chapter 5 connects the two chapters, and the words “we” and “sleep” in verse 10 of chapter 5 prove the two chapters are connected.
The Greek words for “wrath” and “tribulation” are not the same word, as proven by the verse below.
Rev 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Watch the RUclips video “Pretribulation Paradox” by former pretrib believer skydiver626.
Never worry about when Jesus is coming back. Just know that he is. And when he does, that you need to be living your life exactly as he taught.
Only those who keep the 10 Commandments of our Creator and maintain their Faith in his son, our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. and endure until the end, will be saved.
While we must not be "worried", we must watch, pray and be sober.
Jesus will return POST trib to take Israel into their kingdom.
The Law and commandments however were only given to the Israelites. Not Eskimos . Not Asians. Not Vikings. Not Mayans. Not Celts. Hebrews.
The Law was abolished on the cross.
Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
To Reconcile both Circumcised and Uncircumcised Israelites. Law keeping Jews and covenant of flesh breaking Gentiles. All kindred. All the same family. Paul’s ministry is of reconciliation of the family of Israel.
We sleep in…. til after the reign.
Endurance to the end is for Israelite believers going through tribulation aka Jacob’s trouble.
Salvation is Resurrection from death and the grave.
@@catnappd Keep the Commandments of our Father and Faith in Jesus. Those who do not keep the Commandments and their faith is dead. will die in their sins :( Do not be one of those who chooses sin over the the love of God (John 14:15) and allows their faith to die because they don't want to do the works of God (James 2:14-26).
@@FirstLast-zk5ow The law does not apply to. Only faith.
@@catnappd I am not referring to the Mosaic laws.. I am referring to God's 10 Commandments. And if you want to believe that you don't have to keep them .. Good luck telling God that you didn't keep them because someone told you that you didn't have too.
Mathew 24:29-31 after the tribulation.
The rapture is also called the harvest in mathew 13 and is very clear about the tares being harvested/raptured first.
Currently we are wheat and tares growing together (in places of worship) so the Rapture will separate the true from the false. When anti Christ comes, no one will be faking it till they make it as it will not be possible due to having to take the mark or die.
The rapture isnt biblical. The word of God doesn't support the words rapture or catching away...
I have no issue with people having questions or different views. You're free to have your views However, this is not an accurate comment. Not only did I do a deep study on this topic, but it's a view that a number of early Christians taught. This isn't a new concept.
Church father Irenaeus 180AD wrote “Against Heresies”: “When in the end that church will suddenly be caught up from this, then it is said, ‘There will be tribulation such as not been since the beginning, nor will be.’” Irenaeus “Against Heresies 5.29
Ephrem 373 AD “…because all saints and the elect of the LORD are gathered together before the Tribulation which is about to commence be taken to the LORD…” On the Last Times 2-Ephrem the Syrian 373 AD
Lactantius in the second century between 100-200AD in his commentary of the Apocalypse that Rev 6:14 (which is prior to the 7 years) is when "the Church shall be taken away”
Victorinus a bishop who lived in 240AD (martyred 304AD) also wrote "And the heaven withdrew as a scroll that is rolled up, for the heaven to be rolled away, that is, the Church shall be taken away. And the mountain and the islands removed from their places..."
In fact, even if you don't agree with my view of the timing
Revelation 11 clearly shows a Rapture event.
11 Now after the three-and-a-half days the breath of life from God entered them (the 2 witnesses), and they stood on their feet, and great fear fell on those who saw them. 12 And they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” And they ascended to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies saw them.
I am curious if you watched the video or just commented on it. I don't want to be mean and I am not claiming I know everything on this topic, however, I think to be taken seriously you might want to provide some sort of an argument that gives a different perspective on the case I've made. Take care.
@mbfrommb3699 Show me the scripture with the words catching away. I want the scriptures with these words in it. U can't find any scripture because the words are jot in scripture. So this is a pretty accurate on the words not being in scripture..
@@Littlebluebird144 I don't want to be mean, but the words Trinity, and Bible, aren't in God's Word either so this to me is a weak argument.
The word Rapture (English) comes from the Latin word Rapturo in the Latin Vulgate, which is translated from the Greek Harpazo,
in the Greek Translation numerous times I think it's 13.
Harpazo
biblehub.com/greek/726.htm
www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/kjv/harpazo.html
1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Notice the phrase "caught up" or Harpazo in the Greek or Rapturo in Latin or Rapture in English.
Not only are we looking for the "words" but also the concept of the Rapture. That is what my video covers.
I don't know who taught you this belief or where you picked it up from but it's not biblically accurate. We can debate the timing of the Rapture but it is a biblical doctrine and an old one. I hope this helps in your studies. Take care.
@@mbfrommb3699 AND I DO NOT CARE WHAT TRANSLATION U USE. THE RAPTURE IS NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN. RAPTURE WILL BE THE CAUSE IF THE GREAT FALLING AWAY CAUSE UR ALL MAD AT GOD BECAUSE HE DIDNT RAPTURE U.
@@Littlebluebird144. There is no catching away in the e-Sword app, but caught up is
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so…
You are mis-representing what Justin Martyr said. He never said he believed in the 1000 year reign of Christ, only that John who wrote Revelation prophesized it. That falls into the category of commentary or private interpretation. One person can't interpreted scripture by themselves, only the church can with consultation of the Holy Spirit. More important the text of Revelation doesn't say that itself, unless one reads it extremely literally. At the beginning John alludes to that the revelation is an allegory. For example Babylon is an allegory for Rome (read Peter's letters and he makes the same allegory referring to Rome being Babylon. At Christ's trial before his death He says His kingdom is not of this world. The references to a new Jerusalem therefore must refer to a heavenly kingdom, not an earthly one.
The New Jerusalem will literally descend from Heaven and rest upon the new earth that God will make.
@@taylormuse-22 Did you check out the dimensions of the New Jerusalem? If you take the passage literally it's nearly the size of the Moon and rises above the Earth's atmosphere more than a thousand miles. I'm pretty sure this is a metaphor for the church and the description is how God sees the church. Note - because of the dimensions, the church rises up into the heavens so as to include those on Earth as well as the saints who have ascended into Heaven after their repose.
Why are we even discussing this topic? You either believe in the rapture or don't believe in the rapture. Those who don't believe so be it!
Because it is the will of God that all come to repentance.
The Tribulation sounds horrendous, and I wouldn't want anyone to go through that.
There is not long to go...
@@fender97Yes. In fact it IS a Biblical event, its just that the Bible does not definitively say when and if Jesus Himself doesn't know the day nor the hour, then we certainly don't. Whether it's "pre" or "mid" tribulation should make no difference to us continually witnessing. Having said that, I discern end times events are whooshing along and I feel an imminence to things. God bless.
@@mrnexus8seven949Mathew 24:29-31. After tribulation, it could not be clearer. There is no pretribulation rapture
@@fender97The Great Tribulation is actually Jacob’s Trouble. It is for Israel. God needs to bring them to repentance. It’s between God and His people, Israel.
Satan is out to destroy what God loves. Israel. The mark of the Beast is going to happen in Israel. If you don’t already live there, avoid travel there. Watch or avoid news coming out from the area. Israelites (descendants of Jacob) that take the mark will be considered fallen away. Those that are beheaded for faith or those in hiding, the wise virgins will be resurrected post trib/trouble/Wrath.
Daniel’s 70th week is 7 years.
The first half is 3.5 years of “Peace&Safety”
Then Satan is tossed out of Heaven and the Antichrist is the abomination of desolation.
Then the last 3.5 years is The Great Tribulation aka Jacob’s trouble. Also God’s Wrath is poured out.
STAY OUT of ISRAEL!
Yes it is and to ask when is silly, because scripture is clear NO MAN knows the time or the hour.
We ARE told about signs and that they would be just the beginning of birthing pains, but its youtube and people can have whatever beliefs they want for whatever reason......right or wrong.
Why do you quote these people out if context, if you read on the clearly did not support pretribulation rapture
@@blacksheep6888 first who are you referring to specifically? Second, not everyone I referenced do I say beloved in a pre trib Rapture. Irenaeus doesn’t appear to, it seems he was a “mid-trib” early Christian. The point was to show early Christians believed in a Rapture which is what the video is called. The logic of Scripture shows us that there is a pre-trib rapture.
Now if you can provide an alternative view regarding us not being destined for the wrath of God (Rev 6:15-17) and how the Lord removes the righteous from the unrighteous before His wrath comes (Genesis 18:23) and that His wrath comes in Rev 6 Seal 6 which is before Trumpet 6 in Rev 9 and that the 7 years begins in Revelation 11 AFTER the 6th Trumpet then I am all ears. Take care.
@@mbfrommb3699 ruclips.net/video/KfZcs_ZCOBw/видео.htmlsi=SI-xioW6yjFYFjh5
@@mbfrommb3699 the early church never taught such nonsense
ruclips.net/video/KfZcs_ZCOBw/видео.htmlsi=SI-xioW6yjFYFjh5
@@mbfrommb3699 you're a grifter nothing more than a false teacher
@@mbfrommb3699 tribulation is persecution from the world Gods wrath is totally different. Not one verse supports pretribulation rapture not one
How many times has the rapture been predicted in the last one hundred years, the exact same amount of raptures that actually never happened.....the cycle of insanity continues with every new generation...predict...fail...predict...fail.....repeat over and over again, insanity
I want to thank you for your comment. I should have covered this in my video but I forgot and I'm glad you brought it up. I don't agree with date-setting and I don't set dates, but maybe we can better understand the reason for the errors so far.
In my video I show the Rapture event discussed in John 14:1-6, and Acts 1:9-11. We are told Jesus will one day come to get us and it'll be before His 2nd Coming. We also, see that it will occur before the wrath of GOD comes in Revelation 6:12-17 (Seal 6).
So this event has no prophecies that need to occur before it happens. Which makes it a sudden event.
In Matthew 24 Jesus tells us that ALL these events including His 2nd Coming will happen in the "generation" that sees Israel reborn and the Jews return to the land and Jerusalem. Matthew 24:32-34. This happened in 1948, and it says these people born in 1948 will not pass away before He returns.
This is why Christians since 1948 have eagerly awaited the Rapture and His Coming. We are in that generation now. However, that generation goes from 1948 to about 2050AD so yes the window has been narrowed but it's still not precise.
As I explain in the video the wrath of GOD comes in response to Russia, Iran, Turkey, et al attacking Israel. Which we see is already starting.
Some Christians believe the Rapture is before Seal 1in Revelation 6 but we ALL know it'll be at or before Seal 6.
WW3 is Seal 4 in Revelation 6.
So when I watch Christians who see Seal 1 on the horizon which is the revealing of a false Messiah
www.israeltoday.co.il/read/israeli-rabbi-says-hes-already-holding-meetings-with-messiah/
ruclips.net/video/4TyoqMx2Yc8/видео.html
Or Seal 4 WW3
ruclips.net/video/ak7g3T7lXIU/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/-ORNvDUYgdk/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/hhhl-rv6ELk/видео.html
And now we see Iran, Turkey, and with Russia looking to send arms to Iran to help attack Israel.
and annihilate them.
So yes the rapture's date is not given to us, however, as we approach these events the Bible has predicted in advance we can know it is approaching. The world is going to go to a world war. Iran et al will attack Israel at some point. When is anyone's guess, but we are approaching these events. We will go through tough times but our hope is that Jesus has said He's preparing a place for those who believe in Him. We won't be here for His wrath. I hope this helps contextualize the errors in date-setting but not in the doctrine. take care.
@@mbfrommb3699 I walked out of that crazy many years ago 🤙
2 Peter 3:3-4 NKJV
knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, [4] and saying, "Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation."
@HarpsDad22 humanity did just fine for 200,000 odd years without that book, it's a johnny come lately book
@@billybobwombat2231 It’s a spiritually discerned Book, which obviously you can’t discern because you don’t have the Holy Spirit.
Proof of A Pre trib Rapture. Pay Attention to the Cloud and Clouds Jesus appears In and With. Acts chapter 1 verses 9 10 11 Cloud. In Red Luke chapter 21 verses 27 and 28 Jesus is coming In A Cloud the Rapture. In Revelation chapter 1 verse 7 Jesus is coming With the Clouds when he comes back to the Mt of Olive the second coming KJV.
Stop hyper focusing on things that are meaningless and making assumptions and deal with the versus that make your viewpoint very difficult to hold, I'm sure you will agree that 1 Corinthians 15: 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. And 1 Thessalonians 4: 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. are the same event correct? And it also sounds exactly like Matthew 24: 31 And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Obviously this is the same event as previous 2 except this is Jesus speaking in Matthew, but if you go up a few versus you'll notice he also says 29 “Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. So now you have a few problems, you either have to say the last trumpet in Corinthians wasn't actually the last since we know you believe the dead are raptured pre trib but then another trumpet is blown After the tribulation, that's contradicting scripture, 2nd and bigger problem for pre trib is resurrections, if the dead are resurrected before the tribulation then that contradicts what John says in Revelation 20: 4 Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection. How did the people in the first resurrection get killed for refusing the mark of the beast during the tribulation? There are plenty more contradictions but I'd be typing for hours.
@@TheRyno525 I study the King James Bible just like you do. More people teach the Rapture than don't. Some believe it some don't. You believe it the way you do. I'll believe it the way I do.
If the church is really the hope of the world how does it make any sense that whenever things get bad you take the good news away. The church always shines whenever people are in the most distress because we serve a wounded healer. We serve someone that knows what it's like to be in the darkness, to be in the suffering, to be in the pain, and to feel alone. If a tribulation was in the future then that would be the time when the church would shine the brightest so why take us out before then. One of the other reasons that this exploded over the past 190 years especially in the western world, especially in America, is because it turns into a theology that kind of serves us. I mean who wants to go through suffering and who wants to go through pain especially for your enemies. It's pretty convenient to say that before things get bad that the church will be taken out. Why say that the tribulation is still yet to come and that the Rapture will happen right before a future tribulation. How do you say that the tribulation is not here with a straight face to the underground church of China. How do you say that there's a future tribulation, just not a present one, to the Christians in Haiti, or to Christians in Iraq, Iran, or North Korea. How do you say with the straight face to the Coptic Christians who are being beheaded in Libya that tribulation is yet to come. It's a convenient theology when the worst persecution that you have is taking Merry Christmas away from the door greeters at Walmart. But the history of the world and of the church is one saturated with the blood of the martyrs. The tribulation has been raging since Jesus hung on a cross and there is not some future thing that allows us to be able to escape some suffering. The more that we are obedient to Christ, the more that suffering comes it kind of goes with the territory.
Thank you for your comment. I am just curious did you watch the video? If you did great but then I don’t know if I communicated this well because most of this should have been answered. If you watched it and didn’t get the answers you seek then I might need to approach my videos differently.
You say that I am saying these things when #1 it’s long been taught by Christians and it’s in Scripture.
These aren’t new ideas, they are teachings that many Christians just aren’t taught.
The Church IS NOT the hope of the world Jesus is. The Church is a tool the LORD uses but the last Church in Revelation 3 is shown to be useless. there are a number os passages where Scripture rebukes the Believers of today. For example, 2 Chronicles 7:14 when we see our nations a mess and we blame the LOST the LORD says “14 If My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land.
The Church is very wicked these days but is thoroughly convinced it’s godly. It’s very confused in its doctrines, it’s divided, many Christians don’t know how we are even saved, or what happens, or what it means. That’s a problem.
The worse things get the more Christians will blame the lost, the more self-righteous they become and the more they wrestle with people and not with the principalities of darkness (Ephesians 6:12)
However we are saved, we are covered by His blood and so we are saved from His wrath. The term 7 year tribulation is a modern term we made up. Scripture calls it the 70th week.
So when you think of tribulation you think of tough times. When I think of Daniel’s 70th week, I think of as a fixed period of time of 7 years. Daniel 9:27 specifically speaks of a peace agreement between the nations facilitated by the False Messiah aka the Antichrist on behalf of Israel with the nations.
It's a specific event that begins a specific period of time before Jesus returns.
The world is going to get dark and we will go through it until the LORD Rapture’s us go through some very difficult times that men have created. The Rapture is to save us from the Wrath of GOD.
It’s not to escape hard times, or persecution , or even martyrdom. It’s to escape the wrath of GOD when it comes. I think I make that clear in my video. We may see Seals 1-5 but Seal 6 is when the Wrath of GOD comes. Rev 6:15-17. We are not destined for His wrath because of His blood Romans 5:8-9, 1 Thessalonians 8-10, John 3:36.
His Wrath comes in Seal 6 which is before Seal 7 (Rev 8:1) Which is before Trumpet 1 Rev 8:7) Which is before Trumpet 6 (Rev 9) which Trumpet 6 is before Trumpet 7 (Rev 11:15)
Between Trumpet 6 in Rev 9 and Trumpet 7 in Rev 11:15 we see the 7 years begin in Revelation 11:3-7.)
So the Rapture which saves us from His wrath, comes before the 7 years begin in Rev 11.
The tribulation from a biblical standpoint has nothing to do with tough times. It’s a period of time 7 years (Daniel’s 70th week) where specific events happen before Jesus returns.
That’s why it’s important for Christians to define terms and actually understand them. I hope this clarifies things for you.
@@mbfrommb3699
Revelation 1:1-3: The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants-things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John, who bore witness to the word of God, and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, to all things that he saw. Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near.
I see the word “signified”, in verse 1,when seeking to interpret the book. The Greek word translated “signified” means “to make known in symbols.” Symbols point to spiritual realities. The symbols are not reality: they point to a deeper reality. We must be constantly asking: What did the author intend by the symbol he used? John nowhere formally quotes an Old Testament passage. Instead, he uses allusions. Scholars have identified a large number of them. It’s not just words that are symbolic, but also numbers, time periods, and colors.
Daniel 9:1,2 : In the first year of Darius the son of Ahasuerus, by descent a Mede, who was made king over the realm of the Chaldeans-in the first year of his reign, I, Daniel, perceived in the books the number of years that, according to the word of the Lord to Jeremiah the prophet, must pass before the end of the desolations of Jerusalem, namely, seventy years. This what I understand plainly about the 70 weeks of Daniel because it was fulfilled.
Dispensational Premillennialism hasn’t been consistantly taught by Christians from Scripture. It wasn’t until John Nelson Darby put feet to it that it then took off almost 200 years ago.
How is it that Daniel prophecied: And the kingdom and the dominion and the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven shall be given to the people of the saints of the Most High; his kingdom shall be an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.’ The church is that fulfillment of the kingdom and it very much is the hope of the world. I don’t speak of the universal church as representing religious groups claiming to follow Jesus, but only those who are truly the saved.
Since the U.S. is not a Christian and/or Jewish nation, then how does 2 Chronicles 7:14 have anything to do with the it?
Daniel’s 70th week was fulfilled in the first century just as prophesied ❤
@@lavieenrose5954 Part 1/2 I know this is what you've been taught but it's false. We know this because we have multiple sources.
Mark 11 Jesus curses the Fig Tree and it dies. This indicated that Jeremiah 8:13 was about to come to pass. That every blessing the LORD had given the Jews would be taken from them.
Which He did from 70-135AD.
The Temple was destroyed, and Jerusalem was destroyed. They were exiled from the land and the Romans renamed the land "Palestine" after the Philistines to mock the Jews.
You can see a study here:
ruclips.net/video/oja6HDre2k8/видео.html
But in Mark 13 in connection to His return, Jesus says:
8 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender, and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 29 So you also, when you see these things happening, know that He is near-at the doors! 30 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.
This is the OPPOSITE of 70-135AD. In Mark 11 the tree was cursed and died. Here it blooms again.
Jesus is telling us when we see Mark 11 reversed that is the generation we should look for His return. When we see Israel become a nation again, when we see the Jews in Jerusalem and Judea again. When we see them rebuild the Temple again. That is the generation.
Part of the signs in Mark 13 is
14 “So when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not” (let the reader understand), “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.
Daniel 9:27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate.”
My study on the 70 weeks
ruclips.net/video/xqQ5jdl84sM/видео.html
We know the 70th week is a 7 year period based on a 360 day Hebrew calendar so it's 2,520 days or divided into 2 is 1,260 days + 1,260 days. or 3.5 years + 3.5 years = 7 years
Revelation 11:3 And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.”
We see these 2 witnesses are invincible in verses 5-6
5 And if anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouth and devours their enemies. And if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this manner. 6 These have power to shut heaven, so that no rain falls in the days of their prophecy; and they have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to strike the earth with all plagues, as often as they desire.
(This never happened in the first century)
Verse 7 When they (the 2 witnesses) finish their testimony (1,260 days), the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them.
Revelation 13:1 Then I stood on the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads a blasphemous name.
We see that Revelation 17 confirms this beast is the one who kills the 2 witnesses.
Rev 17:7 But the angel said to me, “Why did you marvel? I will tell you the mystery of the woman and of the beast that carries her, which has the seven heads and the ten horns. 8 The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to perdition.
Rev 13 the beast suffers a head wound and survives
4 So they worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?”
5 And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority for forty-two months. 6 Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven. 7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation.
42 months is 3.5 years.
The 2 invincible witnesses preach for 1,260 days (3.5 years) then the beat rises and kills them and is given authority over the earth for 42 months (3.5 years) = 7 years.
(Continued in Part 2)
@@lavieenrose5954 Part 2/2 We have early Christians who wrote about this. The disciple Barnabas, Irenaeus, and Hippolytus.
The Apostle John discipled Polycarp, Polycarp discipled Irenaeus, and Irenaeus discipled Hippolytus.
Barnabas, AD First Century “Therefore, children, in six days, or in six thousand years, all the prophecies will be fulfilled. Then it says, ‘He rested on the seventh day.’ This signifies at the Second Coming of our Lord Jesus, He will destroy the Antichrist, judge the ungodly, and change the sun, moon, and stars. Then He will truly rest during the Millennial reign, which is the seventh day.” Epistle of Barnabas 15:7-9
(Jesus lived in the year 4000. So Barnabas is not talking about the Antichrist in the first century. But now 2000 years later we are approaching the year 6000).
Barnabas - (First Century) “You can perceive that their hope is vain. Furthermore, the Lord said, ‘Behold, they who destroy this temple, even they will again build it up once more.’ This prophecy was fulfilled because the Jews went to war against their enemy. But even though they are now no more than servants to Rome, they will return and rebuild the temple. It was revealed that the city of Jerusalem, the temple, and the people of Israel were to be given up.” Epistle of Barnabas 16:5-7
Irenaeus (about 180 AD) wrote his 5 volume work called “Against Heresies” “In 2 Thessalonians, the ‘falling away’ is an apostasy and there will be a literal rebuilt temple. In Matthew, the ‘abomination spoken by Daniel’ is the Antichrist sitting in the temple as if he were Christ. The abomination will start in the middle of Daniel’s 70th week and last for a literal three years and six months. The little horn is the Antichrist. Against Heresies 5.25
Hippolytus (170-235AD): On the End of the World A Discourse by the Most Blessed Hippolytus, Bishop and Martyr, on the End of the World, and on Antichrist, and on the Second Coming of Our Lord Jesus Christ. "...And after that he (Antichrist) will build the temple in Jerusalem (notice a literal building), and will restore it again speedily, and give it over to the Jews. And then he will be lifted up in heart against every man; yea, he will speak blasphemy also against God, thinking in his deceit that he shall be king upon the earth hereafter forever; not knowing, miserable wretch, that his kingdom is to be quickly brought to naught, and that he will quickly have to meet the fire which is prepared for him, along with all who trust him and serve him. For when Daniel said, “I shall make my covenant for one week,” Daniel 9:27 he indicated seven years; and the one half of the week is for the preaching of the prophets, and for the other half of the week - that is to say, for three years and a half -Antichrist will reign upon the earth. And after this his kingdom and his glory shall be taken away."
Hippolytus (170-235 AD) wrote a 67 section/ chapter writing called "The Antichrist - a Treatise on Christ and Antichrist" "Now Daniel will set forth this subject to us. For he says, “And one week will make a covenant with many, and it shall be that in the midst of the week my sacrifice and oblation shall cease.” Daniel 9:27 By one week (7 years), therefore, he meant the last week which is to be at the end of the whole world, of which week the two prophets Enoch and Elias will take up the half (1,260 days = 3.5 years). For they will preach 1,260 days clothed in sackcloth, proclaiming repentance to the people and to all the nations." ...For John says, “And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.” Revelation 11:3 That is the half of the week that Daniel spoke about. “These are the two olive trees and the two candlesticks standing before the Lord of the earth. And if any man will hurt them, fire will proceed out of their mouth, and devour their enemies; and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy; and have power over waters, to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues as often as they will.” Revelation 11:4-6 And when they shall have finished their course and their testimony, what does the prophet say? “the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them,” Revelation 11:7 because they will not give glory to Antichrist. For this is meant by the little horn that grows up. He, being now elated in heart, begins to exalt himself, and to glorify himself as God, persecuting the saints and blaspheming Christ, even as Daniel says, “I considered the horns, and, behold, in the horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things; and he opened his mouth to blaspheme God. And that born made war against the saints, and prevailed against them until the beast was slain, and perished, and his body was given to be burned.” Daniel 7:8
I encourage you to watch my videos and you can decide but I hope this helps clarify that whatever you may have been taught isn't backed up by Scripture or early Christians.
In fact in Matthew 24 a parallel to Mark 13 Jesus says 3 times "All these things" and in Matthew 24: 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.
Well, we know the Gospel hadn't gone out to the whole world so Jesus was not talking about the first century since this never happened. This is just 1 example in the chapter of events that never happened in the first century.
So what we should expect is that if the 70th week is approaching now, are we seeing a movement to rebuild the Temple that will be defiled? Yes.
ruclips.net/video/La7dGSlq2Fk/видео.html
Yes Jesus is the final sacrifice but not everyone knows about Jesus. Paul writes in Romans 11 that GOD for a time has blinded the Jews to the identity of the Messiah so that we the Gentiles might be saved but there is coming a time when the blinders will be removed and they will anoint Him as the Most High (Daniel 9:24).
Part of the 70 weeks is the promise that the Jews and Jerusalem will anoint Jesus as the Most High. They haven't so therefore the purpose of the 70 weeks has not happened and is not fulfilled.
We as Christians are the first fruits, the first ones the Holy Spirit has revealed to us the identity of Jesus as the Messiah and His mission. But we are not the last. Understanding prophecy is understanding who is saved when and how so we can watch it unfold. Sadly, this topic has been muddled in confusion for too long. I am trying to bring clarity to the topic.
Thank you for your comment, again I hope this helps. Take care.
Great job
@@valeriemccall2513 thanks
Dear fellow believer in Jesus, unfortunately, you are incorrect!! In John14: 1-3, he does not say "HEAVEN," yet the belief is when Jesus returns. He brings The Kingdom of Heaven to EARTH. 1thess4: 13-17 tells us the dead disembodied souls return with Jesus, and Jesus resurrects the corrupted bodies that put on incorruptible in a moment in the twinkling of an eye! The resurrection of the dead righteous believers. Then, the living righteous believers' mortal bodies put on immortality!! Catching up harpazo gathering together or rapture (snatched) carried by angels matt24: 29-31 in a moment in the twinkling of an eye. 1cor15: 51,52. 1thess4: 13-17. Resurrection first, then rapture. We meet Jesus in the air. As Jesus continues to descend to Jerusalem. Zechariah 14. Your false pretrib rapture doctrine and the false definitions are messing up you and others from PREPARING!!.
1. When Jesus returns, He resurrects the dead FIRST and then has the angels catch up the living . All in a moment in the twinkling of an eye.
2. Matt24: 42-44. No one knows the date or the hour. And Jesus comes as a thief. 2peter3: 10 Jesus returns called The Day of the Lord. Jesus comes as a thief. 1thess5: 1-6 The DAY of the Lord comes as a thief BUT NOT TO THE LIVING BELIEVERS??? no one knows the date or hour, but obviously, the living believers at that time will know it's very close!!!
Rev16:15 after the 6th bowl Jesus interjects saying " behold I come as a thief...."??? The only place in revelation to use this term???
3. The timing of rapture is obviously tied in to the resurrection of the dead righteous believers because 1thess4:13-17 clearly states tge the resurrection is FIRST, BEFORE THE RAPTURE!
My contention is that the resurrection of the dead righteous believers is KEY.
4. Resurrection day?? The resurrection of the dead righteous believers??? Let's investigate. 1cor15: 51,52 tells us this takes place at the LAST TRUMPET.
John 6: 39,40,44,54 FOUR TIMES Jesus said he will resurrect the dead righteous believers on the Last day. 1thess5: 1-6 Jesus comes as a thief. 1thess4: 13-17 Jesus returns resurrects the righteous first, then rapture !!
Daniel 12:2 we are told of 2 resurrections. 1 of the righteous into eternal life and the other the condemned to eternal contempt.
Rev20: 4-15 we see 2 resurrections THE FIRST resurrection of the righteous into eternal life. The 2nd resurrection is the condemned to eternal contempt (lake of fire).
Rev20: 4-6 notice the FIRST resurrection includes martyrs of the tribulation refusing the mark of the beast making the resurrection of the dead righteous believers on resurrection day POSTTRIB. Making the catching up harpazo gathering together or rapture POSTTRIB! Repent from the false pretrib rapture doctrine and prepare. All these signs we are seeing yell is the antichrist is soon. The digital currency biometrics and the implanted digital ID is ready!!! Prepare. Matt24: 45-47 a wise and faithful servant prepares for the due season and is SO DOING WHEN JESUS RETURNS. Prepare spiritually for martyrdom and prepare physically supplies for the due season of the mark of the beast and antichrist and tribulation!! Matt25: 1-13 the midnight cry is the revealing of antichrist, unprepared foolish will be rejected because they take the mark of the beast (the apostasy of 2thess2) the wise prepared are ready for martyrdom and physically supplies!! I don't care what polycarp or any of the historical figures say. I stick with Jesus and the apostles including Paul the Holy Scriptures!!
I don't want to be mean but your first point
In John14: 1-3, he does not say "HEAVEN,"
Is debunked in Act 1 which is also discussed in the video.
11 who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.”
So the argument about John 14:1-6 starts off with an error.
Second, I never said the first Rapture was the last. In fact the Bible is clear Revelation 11 is also a Rapture.
11 Now after the three-and-a-half days the breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and great fear fell on those who saw them. 12 And [e]they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” And they ascended to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies saw them. 13 In the same hour there was a great earthquake, and a tenth of the city fell. In the earthquake seven thousand people were killed, and the rest were afraid and gave glory to the God of heaven.
You don't address this Rapture event either.
You don't address the fact that by the blood of Jesus we are saved from His wrath which I also cover in the video
John 3:36, Romans 5:8-9, 1 Thess 5:8-11
1 Thess 5:8 But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation. 9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.
11 Therefore comfort each other and edify one another, just as you also are doing.
So the final Rapture which you have stated is
"1. When Jesus returns, He resurrects the dead FIRST and then has the angels catch up the living."
Does not deal with the fact that there are various times where the LORD's wrath is mentioned prior to His return. Rev 6:15-17, Rev 16, etc.
So how can we be here to endure His wrath when we are not destined for His wrath by His blood.
You also never deal with Genesis 18.
Genesis 18 Abraham asks the LORD when the LORD says He will destroy Sodom and Gomorrah which have righteous and unrighteous people like the nations do today as there are Christians all over the world.
Genesis 18:23 And Abraham came near and said, “Would You also destroy the righteous with the wicked? 24 Suppose there were fifty righteous within the city; would You also destroy the place and not spare it for the fifty righteous that were in it? 25 Far be it from You to do such a thing as this, to slay the righteous with the wicked, so that the righteous should be as the wicked; far be it from You! Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?”
26 So the Lord said, “If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes.”
the LORD spares us today because of the Righteous; because of Believers. We are the buffer from His wrath. However, we know from Scripture His wrath will come so logically there are only 2 ways He will remove Christians first. #1 death. He will kill us all off so there are no righteous and then His wrath comes, or #2 The Rapture to remove al the righteous so that His wrath can come.
We see His Wrath comes in Rev 6:15-17 which is the 6th Seal. The 7th Seal is broken BEFORE Trumpet #1 and we see the 7 year period, the 70th week begin in Revelation 11 AFTER Trumpet 6 and Before Trumpet 7.
I don't disagree that there is a Rapture event at the 2nd Coming. What I don't agree with is that it's the FIRST Rapture event.
I would encourage you to study the Scriptures more. take care.
@mbfrommb3699 wow such mighty definitions you give!! Except I can not go through the list in its entirety now I will reply again! With a kust of rebuttal!.
@@77saint77posttrib I don't disagree there will be a resurrection of the dead at the 2nd Coming. Instead of a rebuttal why not ponder the idea that before each stage of Judgment GOD removes the righteous?
If we are saved from His wrath by His blood and in Genesis 18-19 He removes the righteous BEFORE His wrath comes, then why can't we have a conversation about His wrath coming for the first time in Revelation 6:15-17 so the first removal of the righteous from the earth is BEFORE Rev 6:15-17?
Which is BEFORE the 7 years in Rev 11 (After Trumpet 6 and before Trumpet 7).
Then we see another resurrection event in Rev 11:11 Now after the three-and-a-half days the breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and great fear fell on those who saw them. 12 And they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” And they ascended to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies saw them. 13 In the same hour there was a great earthquake, and a tenth of the city fell. In the earthquake seven thousand people were killed, and the rest were afraid and gave glory to the God of heaven."
Then His wrath comes again in Revelation 15-16
Rev 15:1 Then I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvelous: seven angels having the seven last plagues, for in them the wrath of God is complete.
Rev 16:1 Then I heard a loud voice from the temple saying to the seven angels, “Go and pour out the bowls of the wrath of God on the earth.”
I think this is a more productive conversation.
We are righteous now by His blood. So I believe that for His wrath to come in Rev 6:15-17 all of need to be removed (like Lot and his family were).
Then His wrath comes because for a moment there are no saved on the earth.
Then because of the events people who were unbelievers at the Rapture come to Jesus. Rev 7:9-14
Then in Rev 11 another harvest of the righteous take place and then His wrath comes again and then at the 2nd Coming another resurrection of believers takes place.
But it's not a Rapture because we are all here to enter his Kingdom on earth. The last "batch" is just transformed into their glorified bodies.
Both views can be true at the same time. What I disagree with is that the Post Trib Rapture view says it's the ONLY and FIRST rapture in the timeline. I don't deny the event. My view is that it's NOT the only and or first.
I hope this helps. Take care.
@mbfrommb3699 dear fellow believer in Jesus. May I add to your list. Also the 144,000 that are redeemed from the earth . I didn't mention that either. Mostly the scriptures that you give have valid truth in them yet I'm afraid they don't come close to changing the meaning of 1thess4: 13-17 connected with Rev20: 4-6. Obviously the 2 witnesses are raised from the dead and caught up!! What I'm referring to is called RESURRECTION DAY! When the disembodied souls of the righteous are reconnected with their raised glorified bodies first and then the living believers mortal bodies and are changed to glorified bodies and caught up. I refer you to what Jesus said in john11:25,26. After Martha had said " yes I know he will be raised in the RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD ON THE LAST DAY. Jesus said in John11: 25,26 he that believes in me though he were dead yet shall he live.( resurrection) he that believes in me and is alive shall NEVER DIE. Rapture. The only ones that never due are the living believers ratured when Jesus returns POSTTRIB. May I rebuttal against your theory about The Wrath that ALL believers are saved from. Here in 1thess5:1-11 notice that the day of the Lord comes as a thief yet not to the living believers because even though they don't know the date or the hour they know the close timing. When Paul mention where dead or alive we will all be with Jesus where he is. If the wrath of God is the seals trumpets and bowls that Paul refers to as the wrath that we are all saved from then Paul would not refer to those that SLEEP because they are dead already. The only logical conclusion would be that every generation of believers dead or alive is saved from the ultimate Wrath which is rev20: 14,15!! The scriptures that you gave in no way refer to a pretrib resurrection and rapture. In fact most of the tribulation on believers is the war against the believers by the beast rev13. The martyrdom that will be an endurance to the end. Whether the end of one's life by martyrdom or the end when Jesus returns. The comfort one another with these words at tge end of 1thess5 also does not refer to a pretrib resurrection and rapture. Although it does refer to resurrection and rapture clearly POSTTRIB. Now some would say why POSTTRIB??
I would say Why would Father God and Jesus through the Holy Spirit take us out of the world during the greatest spiritual battle of ALL TIME?? This iscwhen the believers will shine the brightest.
1. As martyrs dying for the Word of God and our testimony of Jesus.
2. As wise prepared for the due season of the mark of the beast and antichrist and tribulation.
3. Helping others to refuse the mark of the beast
4. The latter rain referring to a double portion of the Holy Spirit for exploits during that time
5. Enduring to the end and knowing that after the revealing of antichrist causing the abomination of desolation there are only 1290 days yet not knowing the date or the hour!
Even though there appears to be a false definition of the wrath that believers are saved from, I would like to give 2 last verses on the matter.
1. John 17:15. Jesus says" I pray NOT that you take them out of the world but that you KEEP them FROM the evil. Keep FROM means protection.
2. Rev3:10 to the unrebuked church of Philadelphia (a type of believer unrebuked) I will KEEP you FROM the hour that comes on the whole world!!
Not removal but PROTECTION!!
3. I rarely quote the OT, yet there are so much. I will only remind you of the wrath of God on Egypt and the hebrews were PROTECTED in the midst. So will the living believers be protected in the midst of the seals trumpets and bowls!! Thank you for the conversation.
Finally my only purpose is to help the false pretrib rapture doctrine believers find the truth of posttrib so as to be prepared. Matt25: 1-13..grace and mercy
@mbfrommb3699 dear fellow believer in Jesus. I truly enjoy your expose'. And the conversation is righteous. We are all seeking truth. Yet unfortunately some of your scriptures that you give you are adding false definitions ( not on purpose)
I was well verse and indoctrinated in the pretrib rapture doctrine from the 70s 80s and 90s. As I grew in understanding of scripture I began to see how false definitions were constantly causing fellow believers to be in error about the false pretrib rapture doctrine. If you restudy these scriptures and find the foundation of truth in the posttrib resurrection and rapture at Jesus 2nf coming you will be able to overcome the false definitions.
1. Resurrection of the dead righteous believers on resurrection day.john6: 39,40,44,54. Last day.
2. Resurrection of the dead righteous believers 1 cor15: 51,52. Last trumpet
3. First resurrection of the dead righteous believers Rev20: 4-6. Includes martyrs of the tribulation refusing the mark of the beast
4. The resurrection of the dead righteous believers happens FIRST BEFORE the catching up harpazo gathering together or rapture 1thess4: 13-17.
5. Only 2 main resurrections 1 is the righteous into eternal life and the other is the condemned to eternal contempt Daniel 12:2.
6. Only 2 main resurrections the FIRST resurrection is the righteous into eternal life Includes martyrs of the tribulation refusing the mark of the beast and the 2nd resurrection is the condemned to eternal contempt ( lake of fire) Rev20: 4-15.
All the scriptures in the old and new testaments may seem to have some different details but will ultimately be equivalent. Depending on what definition is given. Stick with the foundations of
The living believers are not going anywhere until the last day last trumpet after the antichrist is revealed after the 6th bowl rev16:15, after the first resurrection after the tribulation at the return of Jesus on the Day of the Lord!!
The Rapture, ad nauseum! as the saying about opinions, everyone has one. Those that as so firmly set about a pre-tribulation rapture are simply the ones that are afraid of the tribulation. Isiah 46:8 Remember this, and shew yourselves men: bring it again to mind, O ye transgressors. 9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, 10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: IF THE ETERNAL ONE IS DECLARING THE END FROMN THE BEGINNING, show me where in the beginning the pretribulation rapture. It is ONLY an OPINION by people that do not understand the Eternals time line of events.
True everyone has an opinion, however I'm not sure you watched the video.
you ask "show me where in the beginning the pretribulation rapture."
Genesis 6 and Genesis 18. I dissect Genesis 18 to show how logically and biblically we see what we would call a "Pre-tribulation Rapture"
A lot of Christians get the timing of the 7 year period so then the bible study about the Rapture becomes skewed. For example, understanding the events in order shows that if you are a "Pre 7 year or a Pre-Trib" Rapture believer or a Pre-wrath Rapture believer the conclusion is the same. The Rapture is both pre-7 years and pre-wrath.
So we see it in Genesis and throughout the New Testament. You're free to believe what you want. I just think that this view is the most logical, rational, and biblically based. My opinion is irrelevant.
Grifter