The Indian atheist problem
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- Опубликовано: 23 сен 2021
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exactly. We need proper resources to counter hinduism because that's what most people in India talk about. I have enough knowledge to counter Abrahamic religions but not enough to properly debate Hinduism. I was born hindu, but I became an atheist at 14yo age. I'm 22 rn and I'm really happy I could do it, special thanks to movies like OMG and PK who helped me to think straight.
I think you should look into manu Smriti. And of course Hindus will justify it as not being the ideology of Hinduism when it was the guiding principle for thousand of years. They don't want look at the atrocities that started from the religion they so relish in.
Spot on. Keep it up mate!
Awesome work ❤️❤️❤️🙏🙏🙏
love your outlook on the topic. could you please talk faster no offence
Atheism and humanity go hand in hand.
Even as a religious Hindu, I am grateful for the presentations of public atheists, because they stimulate critical thinking. I am doubly grateful , Sir, for persons like yourself who have such a keen sense of social responsibility, as well as a careful and strategic consideration of time, place, and circumstance when expressing your views. It is exemplary and quintessentially Dharmika! With best regards and best wishes.
PS: Elderly, secular, flaming liberal, African-American, adopted Hindu faith 40 years ago, 😰Hindutva😦just now found your channel by entering Search words "atheist cultural Hindu". Look forward to other podcasts on this channel.
Perfect. An atheist and i have similar stance as yours! Very happy i found a person like you
injustice with Muslim 😂😂😂😂 sometime you make us laugh
What ur veiw on ambedkerite activist in India..... Some are having large RUclips channels like... Science Jeourney, Human in science, and Tarksheel Bharat..... 200 k channels....
They claim to be atheist but justify Buddhism.... But I like their passionate opposition to Brahmanism.... May be collab with them... Science jeourney helped "Science is dope" to grow when it was like 1k or 2k...
Thanks! I will look them up.
These ambedkarite are just bunch of hypocrite
A good video, and if I may, this is a criticism of the phenomenon of Hindu Atheist who for all their lack of belief in God, always manage to defend Hinduism when it is criticized.
One thing I would like to emphasize is that atheism is just lack of belief in God, whether you choose to be a secular humanist or a communist from China or even a Hindu atheist, it is their own personal circumstances.
What I am trying to say is that criticizing religion or changing the power structures or even maintaining the power structures is a choice one makes based on personal politics.
Maybe you can argue against majoritarianism by doing so as a secular humanist, rather than as an atheist.
I agree largely. And I am going to weigh in on the so-called Hindu Atheism in due course of time. As for arguing majoritarianism, I do so already. And I do agree atheism is not the position from which that can be done most effectively. But one can try to argue from both secular humanism and atheism positions. The positions feed each other.
@@vimoh Not necessarily, Richard Dawkins and his other horsemen obfuscate that atheistic societies can be extremely confucianist and totalitarian eg soviet union and present day china
@@battlerushiromiya651 That they can be that does not mean that they can't be that.
@@vimoh heard Charvaka books were destroyed long back and those people were murdered...
Only books we have are the ones which were written by their opponents.
Also there is not a single charvaka cult or group alive today in society.
Isnt it ?
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If the atheists in the world focused on Christianity in America, Europe, Australia and Southern Africa, Judaism in Israel, Islam in the Middle East, North Africa and Asia, Hinduism in India, spirituality,folk religions, Buddhism and Confucianism in East Asia : slavery, racism, lies, ,corruption,terrorism and superstitions would have ended long ago, but the economy ,the right to Work , citizenship are based on religious slavery and the most important the right to live is also based on religious slavery.
Yeah i find i do.have complex feelings in regards to atheism and social justice and the overlap.of religiousmarginalised people. I cannot stand for persecution of any minority no matter if they are religious or not the problem is when said minority practices a religion i veheematly disagree with like Islam. But injustice really boils my buttons. Like whats going on with the jews and pakistan I side with pakistan on this but when people bring up the holocaust to further their political agenda I cant help but side with the jews. Its a fine line to walk.
Indian atheists also dont have atheist religion code.
I loved your approach ( if I may call it that ) that , " I am not criticizing practitioners because they also face the injustice created by religions in the first place I am criticizing the religion /faith " .
Which is why I also stands with ( or atleast try to ) minorities but not the fundamentalism of their religion / faith .
Let me clarify first I am an "upper caste " hindu & and I am that spiritual type guy .
But can you clarify your take on " doctrine of karma " because from what I've read and heard , karma is not a set of rules or any sort or law . It doesn't mean or work like " tit for tat " .
Please don't consider me a troll , Please . I am just here to learn .
The doctrine of Karma, as defined in Hinduism, is the idea that a soul (for which there is no evidence) receives that which it has sent out into the world by way of moral behaviour (for which again there is no evidence). Belief in Karma also necessitates belief in the afterlife as we all know people who die without what we consider sufficient punishment or die without having received sufficient rewards.
I mentioned Karma as an excuse for apathy because often, in modern society at least, people use Karma as an excuse for victim blaming (the person who suffered must have done something) or as an excuse to not help those in need (why should we help them, they are suffering because of their own actions).
@@vimoh In reference to people being showing apathy as an excuse to karma -
- how people follow their religion / karma is entirely different than what it actually means . And yes , the people preaching the religion deserves to be blamed for that .
Religions has to have a pure imagery of itself as to not let it become entirely corrupt & obsolete .
People should learn not to fall on faith system , that's our weak point , we always someone or something to rely upon .
To quote directly from hindu mythology ,
as per bhagvad geeta , karma is just our actions & inactions , and it is completely independent from its result whether it's a reward or a punishment , which means we can truly be a saint or pure human in our life & can still face injustice in this world .
For an example , gandhi ji / ambedkar / bhagat singh /mandela were & still are heroic, pure ,saint like figures of our history , but they still faced injustice . Noone can run from it
@@puneetsaklani7516 I don't think religions should be defined on the basis of what is in their holy books. I think they should be defined according to what their followers do. Actions matter more than words written in books ages ago.
Besides, Karma can be described as any number of high-fangled philosophy. But at the end of the day, there is no evidence to show it is real. The books didn't provide evidence. They simply proclaimed that this is so. And even people who believe in Karma today don't do it because there is evidence for it. They simply read things in a book and accept it as truth.
That is an insufficient standard of knowledge. You say we should not fall on belief, but then you have belief in Karma without evidence. Sorry if I am assuming anything. If you have evidence for Karma, then please go ahead and provide it.
@@vimoh @Vimoh As I've read and heard , Karma is simply our action or inaction , we either do something or we don't . That is all karma is .
I completely agree that religions should be defined just on the basis of books , if the same has been flawed in actions since ages , there's a high chance the thing written is problematic (or confusing at least ) .
But from my perspective , the main issue is that people generally needs a support system , it can be an ideology , a person , a book or anything to supervise or define their life choices . Religions in general , tends to give people the anwers ( which lacks rational approach , hence they have a higher tendencies to turn into fundamentalism ) of who they are what they should do with their life .
Pardon me for quoting mythology again ,
But bhagwat geeta is logical & rational in nature and at no point it dictates to follow it blindly , It literally has a shlok in which god says ,
think about the knowledge & secrets I've shared with you & do as you wish .
I don't know why do you mention always upper caste hindus when talking about atheism in india ,one of the biggest athesitic movement in india is dalit-buddhist movement
Atheism believe in Scientific thinking while Budhism all about spiritual thinking.
@@anonymous1926ias a lot of Buddhists have deified buddha while on paper it is purported as a philosophy. Buddha has some good teachings but with growing religiousity and a very shady history of Buddhism we shouldn't believe it blindly or assume that everything on paper with translate as it is.
I think he brings upper castes in to question bcz somewhere down the line they have sought to appropriate atheistic movements and schools of thoughts like Carvakas to feign inclusivity
Ok and this is the whole reason why despite neither being spiritual or a god believer, I don't put myself in atheist camp, because I refuse to tone down my criticism on other minority religions in order to criticize the majority religion. This is not a political struggle for me, I am not going to do the bidding of cultural elites. If we have to really be honest, the cultural elites of India are exactly the so called political atheists who tone down criticism of minority religion. I will support hindu majoritism because it's only in a hindu majority country that I will be able to be a non believer and not be persecuted.
The reason you think this is not political for you is because you are privileged enough to not be affected by the power politics of it. If you are a supporter of Hindu majoritarianism, you ARE political. Your condition is not that of opposing the "cultural elites". Yours is a position of denial.
There is nothing wrong in it if you claim it to be a political struggle also.
We as a Hindu should involve in politics bcoz extreme Atheists will create a country like America (capitalistic, no moral ethics). Also, I'm inclined towards Hindu atheists.
@@vimoh
People like you should see population in Pakistan, Bangladesh and afghanistan. Why there Muslim increase but not minority. If india great minority like neighbouring countries u think there population increases. I think ur mind colonied by western people. I know mostly people colonised by western mind in india. Western society never condemned pakistan, Bangladesh but always they do India because western society or new channel support abrahamic religion.
@@vimoh
If u see Bangladesh, afghanistan, pakistan there is no minority rights but india have. India is secular because of Hindus. Just go china what Chinese athiest do with Muslim. Muslim only vite Muslim and never vite hindu and never vote what they want. When two candidates fight they vite Muslim if Muslim candidate fight. If there is no Muslim candidate then they vote who talk about Muslim. Owasisi wining from Hyderabad. He never lose his seats and why
tribalism is the underlying issue --- and we can't quantify all the current situation as religious bigotry .... -
bigotry is a safe heaven for the religious folks ,, as same like religious harmony.....
interfaith marriages should get normalized like arranged marriage ,,,,,
@@DailyLifeSolution
May be Ravi chandran is your mentor..
But it is possible ...
For that, there should be a well build foundation for secularism..
Unfamous Opinion: As being Atheist Its so difficult to find a life partner in India.
why do you think so?
@@justamoteofdust First of all, we are minority and have not united as a community in India which gives less options to choose the life-partner of same idealogy. Secondly, the people who don't want to marry outside their caste can never think of marrying to Atheist who doesn't even follow a religion.
@@savitri_daughter atheism isn't an ideology? And if somebody truly loves you, they won't really care about anything tbh. Though I agree with your point to some extent about casteism.
@@justamoteofdust Its true that I can still be with someone who is accepting my stand on religions, but there would be frequent deagreements on the intellectual level. Because, sometimes its a challenge to make another person understand why we are atheist.
@SavitriDaughter it is a challenge, for sure, but it's not impossible. 😅
I born in a muslim family who is an atheist. I very much hate so many beliefs that Islam holds and specifically how conservative muslim indoctrinates their child but I don't want to voice those opinions in social media ever because there is so much hate against muslim in India. This is a very trick situation to be in.
Indeed it is.
Cārvāka are THE Indian atheists . You can't steal that title.
I have no interest in stealing titles that belong to philosophies that were first presented three millennia ago. You can keep your precious titles. I think Indian Atheism in the 21st century needs to stand on its own alongside secular thought movements from all over the modern world. If a name is all you are interested in, feel free to have it. I am interested in thought, not labels.
@@vimoh my comment was supposed to be funny but I guess it is not. Let me just say this" atheism today is a farce ."
Religion has 4 aspects:
1) Ritual: commemoration of things
2) Community : how do people come together?
3)metaphysics : how does the world work?
4)Ethics : how should I live?
Anything which deals with these 4 things is a religion . With or without god. Example:Confusianism , Buddhism.
Heck even socialism/communism can be said to be a religion in denial.
With 1)rituals: parades done by the parties in charge.
2)they believe all should be equal i.e how community should be.
3)World works as said by prophet Karl Marx : metaphysics.(I won't go into detail.)
4)ethics : theoretically it is work to achieve communism in practice it becomes obey the party.
My problem with this atheist approach is that most atheist are so because of lazy ness. I have been there myself. "Well tradition is troublesome so let's be atheist."
I mentioned charvak philosophy because that isn't lazy atheism they gave serious thought to ways of atheism as a theist would contemplate about God.
All current atheism achieves is to disconnect people from traditional religions so that they can be endoctrinated with new religions who call themselves ideologies. Or without a religion the government and elites get to decide all 4 of the above points. That's when you end up with totalitarian regimes in the way of Orwell's 1984 or Huxley's brave new world.
I will call out some of these new religions:
The leftist church.
The capitalist church.
The church of socialism.
I was a bit emotional while writing this so pardon some minor errors.
The criticism you mentioned has been done by our(Indian) philosophers . Hinduism consists of many sects which criticised eachother. It's just that it is pushed to obscurity.
Some Indian philosophies.
Pramana: the ways in which knowledge can be gained. (Wikipedia this if you are actually interested and not just trying to be an intellectual)
Some major Indian philosophies:
Cārvāka
Akshapada or Nyaya
Mimamsa
Samkhya
Patanjala or Yoga
Vaisheshika or Aulukya
Pāṇiniya
Buddhism
Arhata or Jainism
Ramanuja System or
Sri Vaishnavism
Purna-Prajña Darsana or Tatva-vaada or Dvaita
Vedanta
Nakulisa-Paśupata
@@nahushkanitkar8194 With the exception of metaphysics, all the characteristics you have listed as defining properties of religion are applicable to football clubs and reading groups. So I would say that metaphysical (or supernatural often) claims and proposals are pretty much the only defining characteristics of religion.
I don't know why most people are atheists so I wouldn't speculate about it. I am sure some atheists or even many atheists are lazy. But I think many are atheists because they have been through religion and have given it a lot of thought. To think that atheists are only atheists because they got tired of tradition is dishonest because it paints the religious as more intellectually invested in their belief systems. This, at least in my experience, is hardly ever the case. People follow religions because their parents tell them to. Later, they find ways to justify their beliefs.
And lastly, I find this tendency to call everything a religion a little amusing. I think it shows some kind of self esteem issue among believers. Atheists don't say "religion is just another atheism". But religionists frequently say "atheism (or socialism, or capitalism, or leftism) is just another religion. I think the people who do this are aware that their belief systems are irrational and even dangerous to the world. But because they have spent a lifetime following it and their notebooks are full of justifications, they tell others "you are just as bad as I am". It's not a claim of being better. Its a surrender to being wrong. It's saying that everyone and everything is bad and therefore me being wrong isn't actually that bad.
@@nahushkanitkar8194 As for Charvak philosophy, I am sure they did the best with what they had. They (and others like them all over the world) were the precursors to a lot of modern atheist thought. But we know more now and can do better.
The concept of atheism is still very alien to the Indian society, but it's not necessarily western, nothing is, if your logics are derived from what you experience in your society everyday. It becomes very difficult to survive in the social power structure if you're an atheist.
And I completely agree on how it's very difficult to stand for the injustice happening to the religious minorities being an atheist, I don't consider Nupur Sharma's comment on Prophet was an injustice to any human in this country, but inserting rod into muslim man's rectum is clearly an oppression by state machinery on the religious minority and less powerful.