The Many Clans of Men (and what about Hobbits?) | Of the Lords of Beleriand - Part 7 of 10
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
- Where did Men come from? Today we'll explore one of the greatest turning points in Tolkien's Legendarium! From Easterlings and Haradrim, to Rohirrm and Hobbits, the tale of all Men begins here...
Check out the full playlist:
Part 1 | The Grey Elves of Beleriand - • Grey Elves of Belerian...
Part 2 | The Return of the Noldor - • The Return of the Nold...
Part 3 | The Battle of Glory - • The Battle of Glory | ...
Part 4 | The Elven Realms of Beleriand - • The Elven Realms of Be...
Part 5 | The Origins of the Dwarves - • The Origins of the Dwa...
Part 6 | The Dwarves of Beleriand (and also Ents?) - • The Dwarves of Beleria...
Part 7 | The Many Clans of Men - • The Many Clans of Men ...
Part 8 | The Edain: Elf-friends Among Men - • The Edain: Elf-friends...
Part 9 | The Servants of Shadow - • The Servants of Shadow...
Part 10 | The Ruin of Beleriand - • The Ruin of Beleriand:...
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![[Limbus Company - Teaser] Season5 - Oblivion](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/8anKuEeZLeI/mqdefault.jpg)
"And the Elves awoke facing West, and they saw the Moon and the stars, and they followed them and loved them
And the Men awoke facing East, and they saw the Sun, and they loved it and followed it
And the Dwarves awoke face down in the earth, and they said - BY MY BEARD, HOW WASTED DID WE GET YESTERDAY"
Only that the moon didn't exist when the elves awakened
I find it incredible that the first men who repented did so without the influence of any of the Valar, nobody went there and saved them from Morgoth, there was a window of reprieve that was enough for men to realize that there's more to the world than that darkness and suffering. Their only help was probably Eru's, who operates in secret and mysterious ways, instead of some Valar going there and teaching how to be good people.
I think one of the take-aways that work regrading "The Gift Of Men" is a premise I've only seen replicated in films once and that was the film "Troy". When Achilles is speaking to Polydora in his tent, he mentions how "The Gods envy you" (meaning humans) as due to your mortality, you are able to greet every day with the reverence and fascination that it could be your last and must be enjoyed to its fullest".
I think the weariness of an immortal life, compounded by the fact you are probably destined to do it again if you die from tragedy, could be considered perhaps a burden to some.
Men knew that every single day, was the most important day of their life and should relish each day as such.
Something we ourselves should perhaps put stock in... Great vid, again, Dave!
I've always felt like there's lots of Grimdark horror potential in the earliest history of men. That thing Beor said about how they did not look back is chilling
You know that parallels sodom and ghamora right?
The meeting of Finrod and the house of Beor always brought me such wonder. Imaging being out with your clan and you awake to a song so beautiful and magnificent that your mind is filled with the imagery of the lyrics that are in a completely different language. They must have felt like they reached heaven.
In most works of fantasy I find humans to be the most boring race, since they're what I am. Tolkien makes it not so. Men in Tolkien have so much cool stuff about them.
Its mainly in my opinion because in most works humans serve as a relation point ... they are an easy way to get you to relate the world and the fantasy elements ...
Tolkien does not do this he makes them mythological ... its like reading about Odysseys, about Beowulf ... ore Hercules men that are not like you ...
I just wanna say that my opinion, there is a big difference in "Humans" and "Men" 🤷♂️
Hearing Dave greet us in anything other than Sindarin was such _whiplash!_
It’s interesting that Finrod sang about the Creation of Arda when first coming across Men; for me, it calls to mind the Apollo 17 crew reciting Genesis when first orbiting the moon.
Tolkien didn't despise or oppose allegory; he looked down on *intentional* allegory. It's impossible to separate chunks of his life from his books - war, industry, deforestation, etc. Tolkien was very much of a hobbit ideology himself. He specifically said he wrote this all as a love story for his home, for England, because England didn't have epic tales like the Norse and Greek and so on. I think he absolutely intended to have the languages and peoples to represent ancestors of modern England. That was always the point - to create England's mythos.
My head cannon is that the Gift of Men is more than just mortality. Bear with me.
The fact that Men get sick, grow old and die is merely a byproduct, a side effect of the Gift, which is that they are not bound to the fate of Arda like Elves are. This translates as mortality, but also as being free to forge their own destiny.
While Elves have free will, they are largely constrained by Eru's great plan. Elves are nearly unchanging, almost like works of art. They can't fight their nature, they're bound to it.
But Men are completely free. They can change, build a new future for themselves, accomplish things that nobody thought possible, and that's because they exist in a state of perpetual uncertainty. They have a limited amount of time to figure out who they are and what to do with themselves, which pushes them to act before it's too late, and they only know that they will die eventually, not how or when. Elves are burdened and trapped by their knowledge of themselves and their fate, but Men are free because they don't know theirs. It's almost like the uncertainty principle in quantum mechanics, where things are undecided until they're known.
And I think that's why Sauron hates and fears Men so much. Morgoth hated Elves out of spite, but Sauron, being much less of a fool than his former master, feared Men for their boundless potential. As they're able to break free of Eru's plan, their actions can't have been part of the vision that Eru gave the Ainur before Arda was created; meaning Sauron doesn't know in advance what Men will do. Men are the one thing he can't anticipate, the one thing he can't control, which is why he hates them with a special passion, he whose goal is perfect order through absolute control.
That's a very interesting and thoughtful perspective, thank you.
I thought this was already cannon.
Yep. Sauron didn't hate elves as much because they were so ordered with nature as to be predictable to him. Men were far less ordered according to nature and far more unpredictable, and that's what Sauron hated so much
Remember, unlike Morgoth, who was all about spreading chaos out of spite towards Eru, Sauron was all about order, but was prideful to the point where he thought he could do it *better* than Eru. You could say Sauron was trying to "build back better"
Found it: Fate and Free Will in Middle-Earth
ruclips.net/video/KIzDndXGRsY/видео.html
ELVES: What is a century but mere days for me?
MAN: You've got a very boring life.
I've said it before, this is hands down the best Tolkien lore channel on RUclips. It's really fantastic, you'll get really big if more people share this on the internet. Absolujtely amazing, I didn't know the elves their first encounter with men! I might have a couple questions I will ask tomorrow about things!
I know!! I want Rainbow Dave to direct the most incredible Tolkien series ever.
I don't really have a favourite, they're all awesome in their own unique way. In Deep Geek, Men of the West, Nerd of the Rings, Girl Next Gondor & Tolkein Untangled all offer something unique to the understanding of the Legendarium.....& I love them all for it 🙂.
@@TheMarcHicks True, but some others have sold out to Sauron.
Fun game: take a shot every time Dave says "we just don't know"
In this video it just / confirms even more how amazing a man Tolkien was and as "Rainbow Dave" says..his (Tolkien's) understanding of Philology is just insane / outstanding. J R R Tolkien truly was a genius and am so glad for this to have happened in my lifetime and just enforces my love for all the stories of J R R Tolkien, LOTR, The Hobbit and all things Tolkien. :-) God bless you J R R Tolkien and thank you.
I’ve always thought of the Pukel-men, the men of Druadan, as Tolkien’s Neanderthals. Neanderthals as they were thought of in the early to mid-twentieth century when he wrote LotR. After all, some people see Middle Earth as an early manifestation of Europe, thousands of years before our own history, and Neanderthals were still around for a few thousand years after we’d entered Europe.
Men Men Men Men Manly Men Men Men
I love this channel. You're a awesome storyteller. Your enthusiasm and humor is totally engaging ...subscribed❤
In the first age it's the House of Marach which later becomes the House of Hador. I really appreciate the visuals of the early human settlements. They are especially helpful.
So... when men die, their spirits are taken by Eru Iluvitar for only he knows what purpose. Meanwhile, on Earth, there has been a decade of light novels and animation from Japan depicting people who die in this world and are reincarnated in fantasy worlds, in a sort of wierd rhyme of this Legendarium concept.
Further, now that I've thought of it, I can't help but wonder if Eru Iluvitar is doing much the same thing, and that Eä is in fact the source of all heroic humans in other fantasy worlds, and Eru is running a Hero-Soul business.
In a metaphorical way, that's really true, as from Tolkien's works the entire genre of modern fantasy springs.
"These are the kinds of thoughts that kept me out of the really good schools." ~George Carlin
Are you saying Eru Illuvatar created men to serve as Isekai protagonists
@@j-core2895 In a word, yes. Eru Illuvatar wants to corner the market.
Turin will forever be my favorite man in tolkiens writing
I am enjoying these while I drive my truck cross country
Absolutely hidden gem of a Channel.
Keep up the good work.
You put so much passion in your videos. Big thumbs up 👍👍👍😊
The final month of this series? Part of me wishes it would last forever.
Actually there is a human equivalent of Imin, Tata and Enel. These are brothers Ermon and Elmir who were discovered by an elf called Nuin of what are presumably the Avari (or their equivalent). It's in the "Book of Lost Tales part two" in "tale of Gilfanon". Some time after human awakening, servants of Melko (Morgoth) led by Fankil attacked the nearby elves turning humans against them and only Ermon and his folk remained loyal to Nuin. After Nuin fell in battle some of these elves led by Tareg went west meeting Noldoli (Noldor) that were encamped on river Sirion and aided them in their battles with Morgoth. That's how Noldor heard of this story about the first humans so eventually Ailios (Gilfanon) related it to Eriol. Sure many consider these early tales uncannonical but so many details from The Book of the Lost tales later became part of Silmarillion and those that did not are frequently mentioned when analysing stories and characters that are canon especially when there is not any alternative. Many fans are not aware of this.
Tolkien would be proud of you sir!
Thank you for all your hard work.
Thank you, David. 2nd lockdown, wtf is next... I'm so tired of being tired. I wish you all the best and I can't thank you enough.
Awesome brah!
Love your storytelling, your voice is soothing.
Keep them coming.
Take a look in "Unfinished Tales of Numenor and Middle-Earth". There it was said that the Druedain were all of the House of Haleth.
A very interesting topic these early Mannish migrations, great video as usual 🖖🏼 Where did you perceive the information that the Southrons and Khandians descend from the Easterlings? I somehow assumed that the original group of Men split into roughly three branches migrating westwards (Edain and Middle Men), southwards, and remaining in the East.
I think it's interesting to ponder on the differences between the Haradrim and Peoples of Rhûn. The Southrons once had trade relations with Gondor (a precursor to a possible alliance) and their history was strongly influenced by the Númenoreans, especially the King's Men. I think Sauron's grip over them was more recent and a tad less strong perhaps than over the Easterlings. Rhûn is so far away from the shore that it is mostly beyond the Dúnedain's zone of influence, so that perhaps the influence of Morgoth and Sauron (great influencers btw, love their taste in fashion) had an even greater impact. Also, the Men of Rhûn were apparently in contact with Dwarven clans, but no contact between Haradrim and either Dwarves or Elves is implied (that doesn't mean that it never happened, but I think it still has some signifance).
My favourite Tolkien channel !
P.s. do we know which of the 3 races of men the Edian/Numemorians are from?
I’m guessing the northmen because they’re the “goodies” (ekk)
Yeah bree-landers & druedian are minor featured exceptions
The lenghts you go to praise Tolkin is hilarious
4:32 Sauron looking fair.
You are a great lector in deed 🔥
@21:18 is a really interesting map overlay but was Beleriand really that big? That implies it wouldve been bigger than all of 3rd age western middle earth.
Judging by the distance of himling (himring) on the LOTR map Ive always assumed that the 3rd age blue mountains are for the most part still the entirety of Ered Luin of the 1st Age with just a big gap in it now where the Gulf of Lune is.
You should do some map videos! You are my #1 source of online Tolkien lore, love your videos. Cheers.
my two favourite stories are the one from book of lost tales where the Elf Nuin finds two mannish children, awakens them and names them Ermon and Elmir...
The other one is the one frommthe Athrabeth ah Finrod a Andreth where Melkor went to Hildorien in disguise, claims to be god and makes them build h7m a temple and bringnhuman sacrifices.
In old English the word man, means person. Women comes from “wif” , “wif-man” which means female person. And man just means person, the old English meaning for male is “wer” so it should have been “wer-man” which would mean male person. At the end of the day man means person.
I love that map at the 21m plus time in the video. I know there are many estimated maps created, but I particularly like this one. The only thing missing is the Island of I believe, Himring, the fortress of Maedhros.
It's always seem to me that hobbits should have a little dwarf in them, rather than just some offshoot of men. Not just to account for the size, but also their extreme resistance to the rings influence. Much more like the dwarf lords then the easily corrupted men. I also like to think of the total epic consequences if Frodo/Gollum destroying the ring was the final fulfillment of the role Eru would find for Aule's creations.
The Dwarf Lords were resistant to the rings because of theis stubborn natures, pretty much, while Hobbits tend to be resistant since they are a simple folk that the Ring has a harder time influencing. Bilbo, Frodo, and Sam are resistant to it because they're not greedy and don't lust for power--the Ring can't tap into those impulses like it can with, say, Boromir. Smeagol was anything but resistant to it since his very act of taking the Ring was an act of kinslaying motivated by greed.
That Drake meme got me DEAD 🤣
Great video as always! One topic that really interests me: is there a story of how the world will end in Tolkiens writings? Something like Ragnarök? And if so, does that mean that the Elves will completely vanish with Arda while the souls of Men prevail elsewhere?
This is powerful 💪
Not to nitpick, Dave, it seems the opening greeting can be improved:
ferthu hál translates word-by-word to "fare-thou well" (oddly there's the phrase "fare thee well"), and thu (> thou) is singular, freondas, plural. You see the problem here.
I think ferath ge hál (fare ye well) might work but I'm no expert.
We maybe Men or the Atani but we have the blessing of iluvatar called the Gift of Men is a Gift that Even the Elves will envy at some point in Arda because us Men we are not Bound forever to Arda like Elves are and when we die we go to some other place that only iluvatar or Eru knows about it and no one else not even the Valar!!!!!
I think the idea of death being a gift is a philosophical concept that has always been somewhat shaky. I think immortality is desirable so long as that's just what it is. Death is just something we cannot prevent and have to accept and deal with it, so we frame it as a gift and make excuses for it. We view death through a mortal lens.
I do agree with one thing, that mortal beings would be jealous of immortal ones. This is because that mortal lens doesn't really work when you can observe true immortality and how it's not really such a bad thing.
nooo ive finished binging your videos!
20 hours to the next one! 🙂
this is fascinating content.
🔥 vids.
Human doesn't mean species in modern time though. It means genus as it includes us, Neanderthals, Densiovans, and numerous others.
Great work!!
Just one note - "the dark haired celts" There are very little difference between germanic and celtic speaking people. The original Celts where a group from Central Europe. Germanic, celtic, slavic and baltic are mostly fair haired and light eyes.
Yes i agree, that there are more among the irish who appear with dark hair... but the Scottish are just as fair as nordics. But again great work my friend ✌😊
Thanks!
Maybe keeping the fate of human souls a secret wasn't the best plan.
Finrod: Can pass as god with nothing but a shitty harp.
Galadriel: Gimme a ship.. because I uhm.. got a tempest in me!
As much as I love Tolkien...I cannot 100% say he did not have racial preferences... The Celtics tef to Dunleindain is another example
Surely Hobbits would be halfway between the Druedain and Men rather than Hobbits being
the common Ancestor?
If we are to follow Catholicism as one of Tolkien's source of inspiration for his legendarium, it will be safe to say that Men, after they die, may reach the level of divinity - this is akin to achieving sainthood in Catholic belief. I believe that Men's purpose is to reshape the world out from ruins of the old, and that's why they are said to join Eru in recreating Arda after it's destroyed.
Seems to me that Tolkien drew inspiration for the Drunedain from the Pictish people
8:39 can someone expand on this? I didn’t realize The Silmarillion was an Elvish history. I always thought it was just the history of Arda and Middle Earth.
Was it written by elves in Tolkien’s mind?
This is a great fun fact!
So just as The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings are stories written down by Bilbo and Frodo in the Red Book (at least that's the framing device in Tolkien's writings), The Silmarillion was supposedly compiled and written by and elf of Gondolin called Pengelodh, who survived the First Age and wrote it all down.
In fact, Tolkien originally wrote about an Anglo Saxon guy called Aelfwine of England who was born around 860 AD. According to Tolkien, he moved from Somerset to Wales to avoid Viking attacks, and eventually set off on a sea voyage west. After passing Ireland, he fell into a "dreamlike death" and woke up on the shores of Tol Eressea, off the coast of Valinor. There he met Pengelodh and was shown the Silmarillion, the Ainulindalë, the Tale of the Children of Hurin, and loads of other Middle-earth stories, that he then translated into Old English when he returned home to Saxon kingdom of Mercia. Now Christopher Tolkien chose to drop most of this Aelfwine literary device from the published Silmarillion, but what's cool is that it seems JRR Tolkien never fully abandoned the idea. Aelfwine shows up in some writings that came even after The Lord of the Rings, and there are a few examples of Aelfwine's Old English in the real published Silmarillion. When we're first introduced to Belegost (one of the Dwarven cities of the First Age), we're also given the Old English name Mickleburg. Mickleburg means something along the lines of 'big dwelling place' in Old English and Belegost means 'great city' in Sindarin, so it's almost a direct translation. Supposedly that's because an Anglo Saxon called Aelfwine met an elf called Pengelodh. It sounds crazy but remember...Tolkien was a massive nerd 😀
Anyway, that was probably a longer answer than you wanted, but it's a great question, and a really fun detail about how Tolkien imagined his own Legendarium!
@@tolkienuntangled MIND BLOWN!
Wow, I was hoping you’d reply and you went far and beyond. Amazing. I appreciate the lengthy reply!
I’m more than a little surprised Christopher would abandon such an element from his father’s original story. I’m so used to -and love- the way it is, I can’t imagine it any other way, but still. It sounds like
JRR had different plans.
Again, your channel is truly on another level. I will likely watch all of your content multiple times and eventually get back to rereading The Hobbit, LOTR, and of course the Silmarillion. I plan on finally diving into the deeper parts of the legendarium.
One work I don’t hear you site often (or possibly ever? is Unfinished Tales. Any particular reason?
@@Labyrinth1010 thanks very much!
I pull from the Unfinished Tales in my video on the Blue Wizards, and I will definitely draw from it a lot more when I get to the Children of Hurin. There's also loads of really great details in Unfinished Tales about the Second and (especially) the Third Ages in there, but I haven't got around to covering most of that content yet.
@@tolkienuntangled ah! I knew there was a good reason. You are far too thorough :)
Looking forward to the second and third age stuff for sure, but part of me wants to stay in the First Age and before.
Thank you again. Your videos are truly a gift.
@@Labyrinth1010 the good news is there's loads of First Age stuff left to talk about!
But he uses the Latin calendar for some reason
Shamalama doodad to you too, rainbow dave
It's a shame that Morgoth keeps finding these people before our heroes do. There's probably an awful lot of issues that could have been avoided.
creo k Sauron podia ser perdonable, tras miles y miles de años en las estancias de Mandos o donde fuera, xk su intencion en principio era buena, me parece k Melkor-Morgoth no corrompio sus intenciones
Gandalf sounds a bit old even to us(norwegians),we would say Gangalv=walking elf :D
I am just realizing how close Norwegian is to German. In German we would maybe say 'Gangelf'
So Bree-hill is hill-hill?
Yes. Just like modern day Naan Bread 😂
@@Globalgherdaak And pita bread, and chai tea
Oh yes the Chai Tea hahahahhahaa
I liken the Druedain to real-world Denisovans and Neanderthals.
He eats them
could the statues be Dwarves?
Possibly, although I think they're most likely to be made by ancestors of the Druedain.
Foist 1
WE WUZ EDAIN N SHIET
Hey rainbow Dave long comment but hear me out!
So the irony of men is their "gift" of death. So perceived as a gift by the valar and maiar because they have the unique chance of being collected by the big G himself. However the nature of men means that they are not long lived enough to know this. An all powerful being wouldn't make such a simple mistake. Rather this my theory. The first beings he created were created in his image and he loved them but they were too like him. The races of elves, dwarves, eagles and even ents were created during and initial Era of magic in part as companions to his first creations being for them to care for till the end of existence. However the race of men were created for himself. Eru is aware of the concept of good and evil however he exists so far beyond they do not matter to him. Rather he wished for beings of his creation that could exist in a world devoid of magic with free will. With lives and stories of their own that he could remove himself from. Essentially he doesn't care what happens beyond the age of men. He spun a tapestry that will continue write itself. In this way until the of all things the souls of men travel with Eru providing the companionship and stories that interest him as it they have an existence entirely separate and alien to his own... sorry probably poor grammar but I'm at work and I don't have time to proofread. Let me know what you think have a great day!
Men in Tolkien didn't used to see mortality as a bad thing. For a long time, they *did* see it as a gift. It wasn't until later on when they would start to see it as a curse, due to becoming envious of Elves.
Also, Eru isn't "beyond good and evil", he's THE good. Tolkien was a devout Catholic and many aspects of his world are permeated by his beliefs. Among them is that God is good, and goodness is determined by whether it aligns with Him or not. Eru being God within the setting, is the absolute good, with good and evil being defined by their relation to him.
Is that an lgbt tolkien logo, wth
“There is nothing like looking, if you want to find something. You certainly usually find something, if you look, but it is not always quite the something you were after.”
You’re wonderful videos are what I was after. Thank you so much.
One of the highlights of my Friday!!
The Rings of Power show really missed out when they just blew off Finrods whole story and reduced it to a single battle. Really hoping all of this comes to light later in the show.
unfortunately they cant use that story as it is part of the Silmarillion which they cant use ... but at the very least the Apendixes do mention him and call him friend of men who gave his life to to save Beren .... they really missed on that
I always thought it didn't make sense about death being a gift but you make it plausible. In a song of ice and fire they talk of death being a gift but more in the sense of ending suffering.
Fantastic video as always!!
Would you ever make a video on religion in Arda? Or is that even a thing, considering higher beings such as the Ainur are pretty well known to exist. It certainly seems like Tolkiens world is gnostic about the origins of their world.
Yeah that's a really good question. Obviously religion in Tolkien's world is completely different to in our world, as in Arda it's pretty undeniably true that the deities exist.
Among the Elves. In Valinor we see a few (semi) religious festivals such as harvest celebrations, but it's more of a feast between gods and elves, than what we'd consider worship.
I guess the other main place where religion plays a significant role is Numenor. I believe we're told that bloodless sacrifices were offered to Eru Iluvatar on the peak of Meneltarma, and the mountain was considered a sacred place. When Sauron came to Numenor and Morgoth worship became dominant, Eru Iluvatar worship ceased, but it's hard to say if the fallen Numenoreans stopped believing that Eru existed, or they simply stopped making offerings to him.
In a world where elves and Maia are historical figures, it's hard to believe there were many atheists in Middle-earth, but I suppose among the mortal Men of the Third Age (particularly non-Dunedain) it's possible that the knowledge of the West was so diminished that they believed in Eru as a matter of faith, instead of knowing for a fact that he exists.
The proper term isn't Viking. Viking was more like an occupation than a people. The people could be called the Scandinavians or the Norse. Most of the people referred to as Vikings were actually just farmers who had nothing to to do with viking (vik would be a verb).
Love your videos. I want to strenghten my knowledge of Tolkien's lore, you help me with that so much. Your videos are very easy to follow yet you go deep, I love it so much!
I think it would have been really cool for the origins of Hobbits to be a sub-story in the LotR, as in, it wasn't so much unknown or forgotten, but rather totally unimportant to historians of Middle Earth.
You could get a throw-away line from Aragorn to Meriadoc when seeing the creepy Púkel-men like "They were made by an ancient race of Men, short in stature, and lovers of nature. Your ancestors." Cut to 4th Age and Merry and Pippin are exploring the wilds with Fangorn and finding the ancient remnants of the Stoors' and Hobbits' ancestors.
Your videos are great, you are very knowledgeable :) Thanks
I'm sure that this is *just me* - but - when I imagine Finrod rocking out on that rude human harp, I like to think of him playing something like a cross between 'Malagueña' and Mason Williams' 'Classical Gas'.
Always captivating with hidden charms...
Excellent video!
I love your videos!!!I just found you the other day and i been watching all your videos.You made me understand so many things and now i can tell the difference bet names lol
I'm so glad you found the channel!
Fuck yeah. Awesome
With the connections to real life you mention, the Druidine may be a reference to neanderthals as well.
They're also named Woses. Woodwose were mythical humanoid beings in medieval Europe, wild men of the woods, that's where Tolkien got the idea.
These presentations are invaluable. Thank you so much! Hmmm... next to immortality and mind-reading, death doesn't seem like such a great gift, lol.
Ty
Hey Rainbow Dave, have you heard or do you plan to do a review or discussion about the new book The Nature of Middle Earth?? It seems pretty fascinating and a fun fact I learned from a review is apparently 1 Valian year isn’t 9.5 years but 144….I can’t wait to read it!
Oh wow! I've heard it's out, but not yet read it. I will definitely have to!
Your analysis is so much fun to watch. Loving this series. Thanks
I'm LOVING all my Tolkien geek fam here in the comments section. Nowhere else on earth can I find so many others in one place like this.
I've always been interested in history and languages and LOTR fascinated me as a teenager with the layers of language in it and the references to older Norse, Celtic and Saxon cultures and tales. The year The Two Towers came out I was working in Kyiv and went to see it with some work friends and it was fascinating to see how a bunch of guys from a non-Anglo/Nordic/Germanic culture related to it. They were convinced the Rohirrim were essentially versions of the Rus. The Slavic peoples who lived in the east of Europe on the plains and steppes, Kyiv on it's hills corresponding to Meduseld. Gondor represented Rome, off to the west and south. Some said that the Dwarves were 'like' the Jews (the less said about that perspective, the better) and that the Orcs were versions of the Chinese or some other Asians. As English speakers, especially those of us who are still in touch with our British heritage, we connect to Tolkien on his cultural level. The rest of world connects to LOTR in a different way.
I am not suprised since the Rus specifically the Kievan Rus was founded by well Viking coming down from the north .... which does echo in a basic way the Rohirim
Coulden't the Ghân-Buri-Ghân be our worlds Neanderthal?
By the way, someone has to explain the (hobbits) pointed ears and that their personalities more lend themselves to men/elves hybrids. Convince me otherwise..... Could Yavanna/ Ilúvatar have them awake with the Ents.... Not just trees but people that use the land responsibly?
Well the pointy-ears part is just a cinematic device that goes along with the pointy ears of the Elves themselves---neither of which shows up in Tolkien's writings. The ears are purely a modern artefact, although that imagery goes back all the way to (and ultimately derives from) classical Greece, where artworks showing beings like fauns and satyrs with pointed ears (like goats, some also have cloven hooves and all that) started that whole mythic imagery of "fantastical, supernatural woodland beings".
Personally, the whole pointy-ears thing has always made me roll my eyes and makes it hard for me not to think of Spock and the other Vulcans from Star Trek. 😆On the other hand, at least as far as the Elves go, cinematically it makes it a lot easier for viewers to draw an immediate distinction between Elves and Men, whereas in the literature it's mostly intangible things like their demeanor, wisdom, powers, and (as some have put it) "aura" that enable non-Elves usually able to distinguish them on sight. That just wouldn't have come across on film, so okay, the ears help make it more apparent for viewing audiences.
Most people dont know... all these tolkien universe is taken from bible.
19:52 the biggest difference betwee the Dru and the hobbits, apart from their volume, is their lifespans: while hobbits live on average longer than your average man (around a century is the norm), Dru live shorter (they rarely reach their late sixties). That even carried on for Numenorean Dru (yes, there were some; elves met Dru during the Second Age, that's why they have an elven name), who despite living longer than Middle-Earth Men (that's an improvement), still died way before their compatriots. Most likely, their short stature is just convergent evolution with hobbits, since they basically lived in the same kind of places as proto-hobbits. (Also, that image on the left, while widely shared, goes completely against their description of them looking like basically beardless (and possibly smooth-skinned) Dwarves (no relation with real Dwarves).)
21:20 That map, despite being quite common and well-liked by many because "it makes the worrl of the Silmarillion feel as wide as the one from LOTR", is completely inaccurate. By matching the curves of Ered Lindon and the position of Himrig (a mountain in Beleriand where Maedhros lived and which turned into the island of Himling) and Taur-nu-Fuin (the highest parts turned into the island of Tol Fuin), the result is this: i.postimg.cc/DftMRXLy/sagememap.jpg
I always thought that the Druidain represented Neanderthals.
Druidan's look more like shorter fatter dwarfs...
Could you make a origin of the rock giants of the hobbit
werent celts blonde and red-haired?