This is my very humble personal thought on Tom Bombadil. I have always thought of him as Santa Claus. A symbol of goodness that is above the influence of the negative effects of evil. He's an enigma with just a hint of a history that can make him almost realistic. A passive force for good and a light hearted spirit. A jolly old soul. That's just my belief.
Many have pointed out, the Moria sequence contains a lot of "cosmic horror". This is a trademark of the American author HP Lovecraft. Some have inferred a direct influence. Actually there is another author whom Lovecraft himself acknowledged as an influence, and whose works might have reached young Tolkien: the British fantasy writer William Hope Hodgson who was killed in the First World War, aged 41, in 1918. In Hodgson's 1907 novel, 'The Boats of the Glen Carrig' he describes squid-like tentacled things. Another novel, 'The Night Land' (1912) supplies the name of the Watchers (they are giant mountain-like things). Meanwhile 'The House on the Borderland' (1908) includes the device of the narrator who (as Brian Aldiss put it in 'Billion Year Spree') "continues desperately scribbling his journal until the very moment that he goes insane or his head is bitten off by the hidden menace." From 'The Night Land': "Before me ran The Road Where The Silent Ones Walk; and I searched it, as many a time in my earlier youth had I, with the spy-glass; for my heart was always stirred mightily by the sight of those Silent Ones. And presently, alone in all the miles of that night-grey road, I saw one in the field of my glass - a quiet, cloaked figure, moving along, shrouded, and looking neither to right nor left"
In The History of Middle-Earth, specifically in Morgoth's Ring, we learn that creatures were created during the Ainulindale, not out of any of the themes, but out of the discord between them and that they neither serve Morgoth nor Iluvatar and there's a theory that they are the nameless things
Evil can’t create, and only Eru can create sentient life…the idea of the nameless things being the result of Melkor trying to truly create real life and massively and disastrously biting off more than he can chew is *fascinating*
The Nameless Things would fit perfectly in a H.P. Lovecraft story. I'd be surprised if Tolkien ever read any Lovecraft - although it is certainly possible he was aware of Lovecrafts work. Possible, but doubtful. Still, I think the Nameless Things were intended to be their own separate horrors apart from Morgoth and the rest of Tolkiens mythology. As I think was the case with Tom Bombadil, Tolkien had the idea readily at hand while he was writing- but unlike his other ideas, they feel slightly patched in and not an outgrowth from Middle Earth and what inspired it. I've read the entire trilogy, back to back, 4 or 5 times, and Tom struck me from the beginning to be a force of nature more than an actual person- more akin to an Ent than a human. Tom was a sort of wood spirit, and Goldberry was a type of river spirit.
Very cool Video! To Bombadil, my own headcanon would be that Bombadil is just Tolkien himself put into his story! That would be an interesting concept!
I think Tom is the personification of Tolkien in the story. He is the author of the tale. The all powerful being that only exist between the front and back cover. Within the book there are forces greater than him, in the end he can choose close the book. Or he is the reader. The reader also has the power to close the book, but the words exist without them being read.
I had a similar thought not long ago. Tom lives the life that perhaps Tolkien would have preferred above all; peaceful, pastoral, without strife, without worry, without responsibility.
You and the dorklords (only 1.5k) subs are some of the best channels on this stuff. I'll always watch, thank you for your effort on this (the best tom video in youtube)
I believe the theory that Tom Bombadil is the manifestation of the music of the Ainur. Think about it: In Finnish mythology singing has powers that changes reality, and Tom Bombadil is a singer. He "knows his song" (old man willow), and he has dominion over reality. He is summoned by song despite being miles away, likely. He is the music of the Ainur, in some sense.
yeah, my guess is he's part of the song of Eru, but... a weird splinter fragment. Also, he wasn't really meant to be part of Arda, but... entered anyways.
Facinating! Your expertise on the topic surpasses all that of other authors. I have watched each video a few times and find it difficult even to remember all those names! On totally unrealated issues, I wonder if you could make a video about how Tolkien wrote his books. He basically created a world where none had existed before, from scratch. How did he keep track of all the details like names, dates etc?
I like your theories. As for Tom Bombadil I like o think he might be a personification or a humanoid extension of Middle Earth itself. It is often said that nature or certain natural things seem to have a character of their own. For example Caradhras semms to be fighting the "invaders." It would also explain why Treebeard is the oldest living creature to walk the earth - because either Tom is not a living creature or not walking the earth. Tom also uses song - the thing Arda is made from - to control / influence the things around him. It would also explain why the ring has no power over him, it corrupts people, not nature (even though nature can be bend to its will) and is also explain why if all else fails Tom would fall. Goldberry could then be an afterthought as he found her some day by the water. I know it has holes in it, but I like that idea and any idea is as good as another if there is no real answer :D
I was thinking about how tied Ungoliant is to the concept of hunger and gluttony and how that's not really a spider trait. It reminded me more of ticks which gorge themselves on blood inflating to many times their original size and it's super creepy to see first hand. But THEN, I remembered that ticks are arachnids too! Perhaps Tolkien was quite disturbed by the sight or idea of swollen ticks and tbh same they are very upsetting just to think about! 😱
I always think of Tom bumbledill as the interloper. The guy who is observing the history of middle Earth from the outside. The interloper from somewhere else. Maybe even the embodiment of the reader. After all to a linguist such as the author the reader is an integral part of the story. So why not actually give the reader a part in the story itself. Even if it is a part in passing.
Great stories and theories, really enjoyed. Would fully agree that "Nameless things" are something similar to Ungoliant. Tom Bombadil - i would simply accept Mayar explain, someone with great defensive / healing / uncorrupted powers. Maybe one of the blue wizards? Possible but doubtful. Someone, like Radagast, but more "stable". In general, you've pointed it out at the end - the LOTR has been influenced by WWII flows and events, hence Tom Bombadil is one of self defensife players, who can resist, but not for very long.
Regarding Tom Bombadil, what Gandalf says of him is disproven by what actually happened with the Hobbits. Frodo was amazed to find that he willingly and easily gave Tom the ring when Tom asked for it so that shows that Tom can somewhat break the Ring's power over others. And Tom can make the Ring disappear so that means he has some form of control over the ring itself.
Agree with you. I have always thought of Bombadil as a sort of Poltergeist, a manifestation of Arda's nature. That is why he is as old as the world. He is strong yet passive. His scope is as wide as the planet but he is diminished when nature is destroyed and would not survive the destruction of the biotope because .... he is the biotope. Knowing the value Tolkien puts into nature/trees and pacifism, that all makes sense that this character, wholesome and fragile, would hold this special place.
That's how I always understood Tom's ability to withstand the Ring, simply put it had nothing to offer him, and as such he found no reason to desire it. Yet I feel he was wise enough to understand its power, knowing that it could not stay there.
I’ve always seen Bombadil as a manifestation of something bigger. Because of his elven name, the fact that he will literally forget about the ring, his complete lack of « ambition ». I’ve always seen him as the symbol of nature regrowth. Timeless and yet always young. Without objective, without ambition, just carrying on. But I do love your take on the symbol of pacifism an more largely « just carry on with your simple life ». Not corrupted by power BUT we still need people willing to « take responsibility ». I think it makes perfect sense. Especially with Tolkien comments and his history.
By reading the comments that said that the nameless things could have been create at the same times as the song of creation, as pure evil and terrifying creature, maybe Tom Bombadill was created as a pure and good creature to balance those nameless things! That is indeed just speculation. i just recently fall into the rabbit hole of Tolkien lore with your channel. A few months ago I didn't even know what the silmarillions was about and who was Eru Illuvatar! Thanks to you, i learned a lot on one of the greatest fiction ever created!
I always though Tom/Goldberry was Tolkien and his wife Edith. He wrote the Hobbit during his syphillis stink in WW1 and I think he wanted a little bit of his world safe for him and Goldberry. It was before he had kids, so the Tom being Childless felt like a fear of his own future.
Great job in showing a HP Lovecraft monster at the end of your part about the Nameless Things , since they are very much like something he would have created.
i really love your video and approach of Tolkien lores. I do have a theory on Tom Bombadil. After the destruction of Melkor, Yavanna told Manwe she wanted to create some protection for nature. The kelvar could run away, but the olvar (plants and trees) could not.She said : when the children are born, then Yavanna's spirit will also awaken. She will invoke distant powers who will come to mingle with the olvar and the kelvar and some will remain there who will be respected and whose just anger will be feared. This for a time; as long as the firstborn retain their power and those who follow them remain young. I always felt Tom is one of them.
Not knowing where or how a piece fits isn't the same as the piece not fitting. I prefer it when they leave some questions unanswered. Filling in all the blanks leaves little to the imagination.
The Nameless Things could be the echoes of the discordant notes Melchior sang into the Song of Creation at the beginning. That would indeed make them older.
Great video. Tom Bombadil was incorruptible, hence he could play the One Ring with impunity. I agree with your hypothesis that Tom was a peaceful being and that’s that enigma.
I think Tom Bombadil is the uncurruptable embodiment of kindness, and is the purest form of free will among the nature of Middle Earth that all other good souls should aspire to be like; a beacon of hope that there is "still good in this World that is worth fighting for" as Sam nicely puts it.
So I saw an episode on Extra Credits about LOTR that points out one of the major themes in LOTR's is the passing of the torch from one generation to the next and it helped form a plausible answer to the question "why is Tom Bombadil included in the story?". Part of the passing of the torch, is the previous generation's desire to preserve elements of the world they hold dear, so they bestow gifts and wisdom to aid the next generation. But they also acknowledge there is unfinished business they are passing along as well, namely the ring. This all lines up with the trilogy (its been a long time since I have read them though so I may be forgetting something, but it sounds true). Given this theme, then Tom is kind of the opposite of Gandalf. In so much that while they both have much in common are kindly folk, Gandalf is motivated to resolve the issue of the ring, but Tom is indifferent. Gandalf and the Elves even seem a bit frustrated by this - in a polite sort of way of course. So this is why Tom's included, it's to show the party entering the sphere of someone capable that is indifferent and then moving on. It's all done very civilly and without causing offence but it appears had Tom the will to do so, he probably could have come along and helped out a lot more, but he just did not feel that he needed to. While his lack of ambition immunises him from the ring, it also seems to render him ignorant of his actual potential (though I seem to recall that he knows well enough he is quick witted). Tom's inaction also of makes the actions undertaken by Gandalf and the others shine all the brighter. His ancient and apparently unchanging nature also kind of represents some idealised version of what they are seeking to preserve and are leaving behind, to defend from Sauron and some of them at least, likely hope to return to when all is done (though Gandalf's probably been around the merry-go-round enough times to know better).
I believe Tom is the embodiment of the power of innocence wisdom and conviction, being stead fast in who and what you are, and not allowing the world to change who you are inside. Goldberry is the embodiment of selflessness, nurturing and servitude, not in a slave sense, but wanting to serve the one you love and care for. Strong man and woman dynamics and how we are different yet complimentary to one another.
There is another fictional world that I'm a big fan of - it's The Dresden Files by Jim Butcher. In his world, there is a concept he calls "intellectus." This is where the magical energy of a region is so potent that it becomes sentient in its own right, and can manifest physically at times. This is how I interpret Tom. I think he and Goldberry just "arose from the Flame Imperishable" when Arda was first sung into existence. Or, maybe even before. I think your last words on Tom are spot on.
I always wondered in the nameless things under Khazad-dum were related to the dark things that slept beneath Erebor - "In placed deep where dark things sleep / in hollow halls beneath the fells."
Dorwinian is possible for Bladothien, but what about the remnants of Arnor? I believe Arthadein and Cardolin would be around Dale. Why Dale was a Lordship, not s kingdom at the time when Smaug attacked the first time. My favorite theory was that the Nameless Things happened between the Discord of Melkor and the Music of the Ainur. Hating both the song and the discord. I like the Theory also that Tom is the Avatar of Arda that wasn't marred by the felling of the 2 Lamps making Goldberry the avatar of water because Arda is both Earth and Water.
I would love to hear you speculate on tom’s potential relationship to the ents. Maybe there’s something there. We can’t ask Tolkien, so all we have are theories anyway
I think of Tom Bombadil as likely a Maia that came into Arda with the Valar or very shortly thereafter. I think people get too caught up on him being called "oldest and fatherless" by men, elves and dwarves. We are looking at the situation from the outside. We are able to look at all of Tolkien's writings and "know the code". Beings in world would know Tom as a mysterious being at best (those who knew of him at all) and would likely only know that he seems to have been around as long as anyone can remember. Even the Wise during the Council of Elrond had almost forgotten him. Elrond says, "But I had forgotten Bombadil, if indeed this is still the same that walked the woods and hills long ago, and even then was older than the old." Tom himself tells the hobbits, "Eldest, that's what I am... Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn... He knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless - before the Dark Lord came from Outside." So he is clearly ancient but he doesn't give his exact origin.
The only reason I know about King Bladorthin is because his name was in the Hobbit video game. (I’ve also heard that because of his musical skills and the fact that he’s associated with singing, Tom Bombadil could be a byproduct of the music of the Ainur.)
I have always subscribed to the theory that Bladorthin was an elf and Dorwinion is one of the realms of the Avari. Past their awakening and refusal to go west, we know nothing about what happened to them and so I would love for this to be a way to include them past the deepest mythological history.
I see Tom Bombadil as the embodiment of the "Spirit of Freedom". The ring has no power over him because its purpose is to enslave, but, Freedom can't by its nature be enslaved. I think this is why it is said during the council of Elrond that He would fall last just as he was first. This also fits into the idea of him likely forgetting about the ring where upon it would eventually again seek to return. Freedom tends to focus on the present, future, and near future rather than the strategic far future. When the concept of Freedom is irradiated so then would its personification- Tom Bombadil.
When tectonic plates meet, one is shoved up, and one is shoved down. I am in the camp that believes that Tom is the opposite of Ungoliant. They were created by the discord between the themes. And that's why they were in middle earth before anything else. They're not creations, per se, but by products. Tom thrives in Eru's creation, the woods and wilds, and his dominion over them is decreased as those places were changed by the children of Illuvatar. Same as Ungoliant thrives in the shadow and darkness which, again, is changed by the children. Even Melkor feared the power of Ungoliant. And even Gandalf and the elves are amazed at the power of Tom, but they know his power is tied to the changing of the world. Without darkness Ungoliant has no place to hide. Without a natural realm, Tom has no place to sing. In Sauron's vision of middle earth, there would be so few woods left that Tom and his power are useless. Tom is the strife of Illuvatar lifted up, Ungoliant is the strife of Melkor mashed down. Tl;Dr
Also Tom backwords is Mot and Mot is the french word for well "word " as in many storys out of different religions the universe was made with a single word, in ancient language of Israel word and knowledge are seen as the same. You could say Tom means wisdom. The lord of the rings is like a lot of real life spiritual storys talking about the slowly leaving magic and the vanishing of nature and glee. The ancient times full of golden light stolen or corrupted to the point people forget all about it. Tom is the persona of the old ways, the witches dancing around the fire the golden forest full of magic the age of heroes the age of wisdom... light and dark spirits fighting, now the young people humans are left alone and the old teachers of good and evil are fading, magic replaced with science. No longer light or darkness the grey age is coming. That was a strong part of tolkiens mindset. Tom is probably the spirit of nature and freedom the one dancing in moonlight like the wise people of old storys. Tolkien safed some of the feelings in his books to share with the children of the future. So the past would not die. A little faith in magic and fantasy was safe today we are the children and his wisdom still matters. Tom is nature. To make it simple. I do not know why. But i believe this is tolkiens idea. Tom is the old wisdom. Tom Riddle by the way is a name way older then harry potter and was not always seen as evil. The crow song and many other tales of celtic times talk about a funny guy called tom that was also just called the riddle he was known to teach and be full of wisdom acting like a child and never getting old while beeing older then every human. He was the inspiration for many tales of good witches and wizards protecting nature and the partner of numa or nimueh. Tolkien loved ancient fairytales and king arthurs oundtable has actualy the town " Orckenstein " home of so called Orcks they did inspire the orcs nimueh was later called the lady of the lake and her partner merlin the wise. As Goldberry is also connected with water like nimueh we see the inspiration. Merlin was called a blue wizard the blue wizards used to fight against sauron some got corrupted some vanished. I used to believe tom might be one of them. Of course in the old legends Nimueh is not the same as morgan le fay the enemy of merlin nimueh is seen as the one that loves nature and life water and the ocean. She is seen as similar to numaeh from the annunaki myth and Tom is also seen as Enki the god of water. Some storys tell they created humans. Also South Sudan has an instrument called Tom that can summon rain. The story says a gift from the god of riddles. So we can see Tolkien probably made his Version be the spirit of nature the old gods and the teacher just like the inspiration with the same name.
Dorwinion is the furthest east kingdom of Men of the West, formerly part of the kingdom of Rhovanion, whereas the Easterlings would come from past the sea of Rhun. It has been speculated that there was at one point an Avari settlement there, or perhaps some lingering few individuals.
I suspect Tom Bombadil was a subplot that Tolkien ran out out of steam on and abandoned. I wouldn’t even be surprised if he simply forgot to remove it from the final edition of the book.
Personally, I feel like he's the "subject" of a verse of the song of creation. Like he's the Gardner of Ea, and they sang about him. Probably not necessarily close but I like it.
I always looked at it as Tom Bombadil and Goldberry River-Daughter being little splinters of Eru Iluvatar, attached to Arda as it formed, as a way for Eru to personally experience his creation in the same manner as the beings who would inhabit it. Tom and Goldberry are not there to act as or for Eru,, simply to experience the world for Eru. As such, none of the corrupting influences of Arda could affect them. They are incorruptible, just as Eru is incorruptible. I mean, if they became corrupted, they would not serve their purpose of letting Eru experience his creation in the manner that its inhabitants did. Think of their corruption as Eru's surveillance cameras going out and not showing the scene... if you look at it like that, then how Tom and Goldberry act is totally in character with their purpose in Eru's creation.
Tom bombadil is a doomsday weapon..The music of the Ainur manifested in physical form..placed on Arda in the event Melkor's discoed is ever victorious..his physical form is confined to the old forest..once he leaves his form reverts.. pouring out music of the ainur over the land..wiping it clean to start anew.
I see Tom Bombadil as a linguistic puzzle set by Tolkien for himself. If Tom really comes from a time before there was adult evil and corruption (and he does, given that he existed in Tolkien's children stories before Tolkien really understood how important evil would be in LotR) then how could Tolkien be true to both creations once he transported Tom into Middle Earth? Tolkien could not change Tom but instead he had to give him the dialogue of a creature that had lived before Morgoth's corruption and was immune to corruption himself because he literally did and was. For example, Tom "just is" because Tolkien never wrote him an origin and the ring doesn't effect him because Tolkien gave him joyful child-like powers so he couldn't be corrupted years before LotR existed. Yes it is a little odd but Tolkien's belief in secondary worlds rather than imaginary ones (see ON FAIRY STORIES by JRR TOLKIEN) explains this very well.
I'm not clear on why King Bladorthin is stressed as "obviously an elven name," with the only discussion being whether he was an elf with a standard name or a man with an elven name. When I read it, I assumed it was referring to another _dwarven_ king, which are generally unremarked anyway and made for a much simpler explanation: one dwarf-lord crafts some gear for another but doesn't wind up completing the deal. The sound of "bladorthin" is a bit flat and clunky, which suits a dwarven name well. My personal impression about Tom Bombadil (and possibly the Ents too) is that he's an aspect of creation that the Valar simply weren't involved with. Eru/Iluvatar crafted the world with the Ainur's participation, but there's no reason he couldn't have added other elements on his own, without their knowledge. Maybe that's behind Ungoliant or some of the Nameless Things too--either a spontaneous creation of the world itself or the sole act of Iluvatar.
bladorfthin could've been an elf but the info on him was lost during one of the wars or he could even have been seen as a disgrace due to losing some important battle somewhere so they might've just erased his name
For mysteries like Tom, or Ungoliant, or other ancient beings without explicit origins, Of Aulë and Yavanna from the Silmarillion does a LOT of heavy lifting, particularly this paragraph: 'O Kememtári, Eru hath spoken, saying: "Do then any of the Valar suppose I did not hear all the Song, even the least sound of the least voice? Behold! When the Children awake, then the thought of Yavanna will awake also, and it will summon spirits from afar, and they will go among the kelvar and the olvar, and some will dwell therein, and their just anger will be feared. For a time: while the Firstborn are in their power and while the Scondborn are young." But dost thou not now remember, Kementâri, that thy thought sang not always alone? Did not thy thought and mine meet also, so that we took wing together like great birds that soar above the clouds? That also shall come to be by the heed of Ilúvatar, and before the Children awake there shall go forth with wings like the wind the Eagles of the Lords of the West.' From this we get the Ents, specifically referenced a few paragraphs later, and the Eagles. But also other spirits, some that dwell within plant and beast, some that don't. Perhaps Tom Bombadil is of the latter sort, and the River Daughter Goldberry a blending of Yavanna's voice with Ulmo's. As every voice is heard and heeded, maybe the Nameless Things came from Ainur whose songs were disturbed by Melkor, perhaps among them some who decided to remain with Eru rather than venture to Eä to witness and put name to what this marring of their music had wrought. You can infer an awful lot with just this paragraph and the Ainulindalë. Doesn't particularly help with King Bladorthin though.
I think it's shame how Bombadil has been interpreted. It seems to have been agreed by most of the fantasy artists that he should be drawn as some kind of Jolly Leprechaun who would look at home waving a pint of Guinness and some sugary cereal. Maybe if his singing had been described more as melodic (but possibly dangerous) enchantments and his dancing was less comical and more like a very rhythmic martial-art, he might have made it into the films? Which would then have given us the proper origin of why the hobbits happen to be carrying mystical elven swords - instead of "Hello, I'm Strider. Here's some swords!"
Tolkien should look himself in the mirror when he said "taking it to seriously" ... like dude you created an entire language and history to a fictitious world and we are taking it to seriously lol
Tolkien was big on the idea that you can't reveal everything in a story. Which meant he intentionally left out certain things. Conspicuously so in this case.
After watching this video, I wonder if Bombadil is the personification of hope. Hope is an immensely powerful force, yet by itself cannot defeat evil. If Sauron would have won, all hope would have died. Perhaps the sprang from the hope of Ilúvatar himself much in the way that there were primordial gods in mythology.
I like to think that Tom is just an elemental force of "good energy." Sort of an anti-ungoliant. I think they are both more of an effect of Illuvatar than a creation of Him
I suppose Tom could be a Maia because that explains his ability to "talk" the change into the world as Ainur can do, and the reason that The One Ring has no effect on him is because, and I derive it from what Gandalf said in Rivendel, Tom cares not about the ring, nor power nor domination. He is ambitionless and the Ring has nothing to cling to. Gandalf said that he would loose the ring somewhere because he would forget about it. Bilbo and Frodo are hobbits and they care more about "food and cheer and song" and the Ring has weaker influence over them. Boromir for example wants power (it doesn't matter for what purpose) and he is corrupted just by being near to the ring for some time. So I believe that explains why Ring has no power over him. What Tom is I do not know... he might be a byproduct of the Ainulindale, but why would he have any kind of power over the rest of the creation in a way only Ainur have (powerful elves also but only in a very minor way, and Tom is extremely powerful, the world does as he says, that's an Ainur power)?
Considering the creation part is basically a conscious creator Christian Gnostic variant these things could predate literally everyone and everything. I have seen you go back and forth on who created them and how they can be older than Sauron with out considering that they were not created and come from outside of creation and the realm of Eru Ilúvatar. They could have existed and been trapped by the creation of the realm or drawn to it.
Melkor interrupted Eru two times at first. On the third time, he continued composing, and declared that these Petty annoyances are also part of his grand song. So, perhaps, these enigmas and anomalies are leftover vestiges from the first two? Or, perhaps, they were self-created by the song in the end according to the Creator's will
For me I gain understanding of Tom Bombadil from reading Puck of Pooks hill, by Rudyard Kipling. Tom Bombadil is not Puck but has many Puck like qualities.
"Far, far below the deepest delving of the Dwarves, the world is gnawed by nameless things. Even Sauron knows them not. They are older than he. Now I have walked there, but I will bring no report to darken the light of day." The "under deeps" as they've been called were a world unto their own, possibly co-opted or connected by morgoth at some during the spring of arda, as there is some mention of underground caverns he had his forces use to avoid Orome. The caves stretched far north, to the iron hills at minimum and canonnically to the mountain Gollum hid in, possibly all the way to Utumno and Angband which were originally connected underground and morgoth was said to have dug impossibly deep and long tunnels with "engines" so who really knows. Hell, they could go all the way to Mordor for all we know. Now If Gandalf is correct (and he usually is) it's thusly assumed Morgoth may have in his tunneling found creatures older than even Eru. (hear me out). If Eru came into being it could be considered other less brilliant life may have predated him, examples of this could also include Ungoliant who is also suspected to be born of the darkness before existence. It also makes Melkor's isolation in the void in the Songs now more sinister. Now (in this context) the term "nameless thing" now implies "not created by the Valar", who of course named everything they made. Perhaps all the earth was built around such creatures to contain them, for they are in the deeps of the world only. Tom Bombadil himself could also possibly be considered a nameless thing, albeit paradoxically as he is named. Either way the point I'm getting to is that all this implies while escaping the fall of Angband Durin's Bane fled most likely directly from the tunnels in Angband into the UnderDeeps and was able to escape them only when the dwarves dug into the top of them most likely due to the breaking of the world messing up the tunnels. Durin's Bane in this way might be seen as a mercy, as the horrors down the Dwarves could have encountered instead were probably bad enough that a balrog would rather slay a civilization worth of dwarves and risk the wrath of the valar or Maia than spend another moment down there. If there was ever to be a sequel to the series it would or should have been about this and not the book tolkien himself abandoned. Lotr deals with good vs evil but all within the domain of light and life, sauron and morgoth being ultimately beings of light created by Eru.
Perhaps the nameless things are the results of the dissonance Melkor introduced into the song of creation, the Einulindaliae, I'm sure I spelled that wrong.
Sup dude got a question if you see this.when celebrimbor forged the rings with the s man what did he think that would do?what was the deception from sauron?
This is a good question. It's often believed that Sauron's deceptive gift was rings of power, but this is of course not true. The rings came later. Sauron's deception was his fair form and his gift of ring-lore; the knowledge with which he and Celebrimbor forged the rings of power. But this ring-lore was inherently evil, and any ring that was made with this knowledge was forever bound to Sauron and his one ring. I think Celebrimbor hoped to make powerful and beautiful jewellery (not unlike his grandfather's Silmarils), but due to Sauron's deception, everything he made was infected by Sauron's malice and bound to his ruling ring.
Good video and fun speculation. I'm not sure that the fact that being insusceptible to corruption and acquisitiveness is not a general power of the Maiar necessarily means that Bombadil couldn't have been a Maia. Many of the Maiar have special powers or affinities that come to them by virtue of them being Maiar, but which are not general to all Maiar. Caring nothing for acquisition and the accumulation of power may simply be Bombadil's specific Maia nature. It may even be that there is some relationship between this trait and the woods that Tom Bombadil loves and inhabits, though I haven't devised an argument to support this notion.
I didn’t know about Tom, i think he is very crucial in the story, without him the hobbits would have been captured sooner, without him, the four Hobbits wouldn’t have had weapons to defend themselves which they used until the black gate battle in Mordor, as a cinema historian, i can say that I’m 100% sure Jackson omitted Tom because Jackson’s films are visually influenced by the Animated film, so we need to ask why the director of the Animated film omitted Tom, sometimes i feel the two women who wrote the screenplays for the jackson trilogy did not read the books at all.
My conclusion about Tom Bombadil is similar to yours but maybe with a slightly different emphasis. I saw Tom Bombadil as the Avatar or the reification of nature, in particular he could be viewed as Arda itself. The character little bit like mother nature. A character unconcerned about the Affairs of men the, virtually oblivious to them and offering Bounty and peace for those that seek to withdraw from scary things war and Power. Seemingly Untouchable but like the natural world the Affairs of men if they go uncontrolled could even threatened the Earth itself as the war machine of Sauron would eventually destroy the natural world the way Saruman ruined a forest. You could also be seen as Kindred or similar to the treant something that wasn't just dedicated to a species of trees or all the trees but all the natural world living and Geographic. The mountains and the rivers and the winds, the squirrels and the berry bushes and the birds in the sky. He embodied the frightening power the benign indifference of our planet
Isn't it possible that the Nameless Things actually existed before the creations of the world, before Illuvatàr himself? It reminds me of Chaos in the greek mythology. The universe does not begin with nothing. The creation means the rising of Order, which can be assimilated to Harmony (and thus to hamonic music). And Illuvatàr trapped those chaotic things in the foundations of Arda. Regarding Bombadil, I like to think of him as the Ainur of total freedom. He is so free of everything (in a kind of Buddhist way) that the Ring has no hold over him, but also that the outcome of the wars... sort of slide on him; even they have no grasp on him. Which is strange to say when it come to a basically good being, but this is how I feel.
Perhaps the burrowing, nameless things were langoliers? Those things that eat reality itself, as time passes, cleaning up after the present and the future? Is Stephen King a "Ringer?"
I'm confused. In another video (Top ten best dwarves or something akin), you make the argument for pronouncing Dain "Dah-een", Gloin "Glo-een" etc because Tolkien's son spoke of them creating characters in Tolkien's world, including Go-in the dwarf and... I think it was Scandalf the wizard? Which leads one to assume that Gandalf was named after Scandalf this whole time. Yet in this video you mention Gandalf had a completely different name to start? I doubt I'll get an answer to this with how old the video is, but never hurts to try.
Is it possible that Tom is simply the physical incarnation of Eru Iluvatar on Arda? Similar to the way Gandalf and the Astari are physical forms of the Miar? I think that's very possible. The only difference being that Eru can come and go as he pleases and simply doesn't tell anyone who he really is. Tom is always singing and his music is power after all. And Eru used music to create the world...
🌈 Hey there Rainbow Dave, he’s a merry fellow; Hair and beard of red, and his voice is mellow... 🎼
This is awesome!!!
This is my very humble personal thought on Tom Bombadil. I have always thought of him as Santa Claus. A symbol of goodness that is above the influence of the negative effects of evil. He's an enigma with just a hint of a history that can make him almost realistic. A passive force for good and a light hearted spirit. A jolly old soul. That's just my belief.
I thought it was santa on the thumbnail
Hum..... interesting thought
Many have pointed out, the Moria sequence contains a lot of "cosmic horror". This is a trademark of the American author HP Lovecraft. Some have inferred a direct influence.
Actually there is another author whom Lovecraft himself acknowledged as an influence, and whose works might have reached young Tolkien: the British fantasy writer William Hope Hodgson who was killed in the First World War, aged 41, in 1918.
In Hodgson's 1907 novel, 'The Boats of the Glen Carrig' he describes squid-like tentacled things. Another novel, 'The Night Land' (1912) supplies the name of the Watchers (they are giant mountain-like things). Meanwhile 'The House on the Borderland' (1908) includes the device of the narrator who (as Brian Aldiss put it in 'Billion Year Spree') "continues desperately scribbling his journal until the very moment that he goes insane or his head is bitten off by the hidden menace."
From 'The Night Land':
"Before me ran The Road Where The Silent Ones Walk; and I searched it, as many a time in my earlier youth had I, with the spy-glass; for my heart was always stirred mightily by the sight of those Silent Ones. And presently, alone in all the miles of that night-grey road, I saw one in the field of my glass - a quiet, cloaked figure, moving along, shrouded, and looking neither to right nor left"
If only the doors of Durin opened under a “waning-gibbous moon” 😂
In The History of Middle-Earth, specifically in Morgoth's Ring, we learn that creatures were created during the Ainulindale, not out of any of the themes, but out of the discord between them and that they neither serve Morgoth nor Iluvatar and there's a theory that they are the nameless things
It's the mark of a good storyteller that his audience is still talking about his story over a century since it's first inception.
They will for centuries to come
Evil can’t create, and only Eru can create sentient life…the idea of the nameless things being the result of Melkor trying to truly create real life and massively and disastrously biting off more than he can chew is *fascinating*
A much prefer them being entirely separate form any of the Valar, like Ungoliant likely is. It adds to their mystery and their danger
The Nameless Things would fit perfectly in a H.P. Lovecraft story.
I'd be surprised if Tolkien ever read any Lovecraft - although it is certainly possible he was aware of Lovecrafts work.
Possible, but doubtful.
Still, I think the Nameless Things were intended to be their own separate horrors apart from Morgoth and the rest of Tolkiens mythology.
As I think was the case with Tom Bombadil, Tolkien had the idea readily at hand while he was writing- but unlike his other ideas, they feel slightly patched in and not an outgrowth from Middle Earth and what inspired it.
I've read the entire trilogy, back to back, 4 or 5 times, and Tom struck me from the beginning to be a force of nature more than an actual person- more akin to an Ent than a human.
Tom was a sort of wood spirit, and Goldberry was a type of river spirit.
This is easily my favourite channel right now, and by far the best Tolkien channel I've ever seen. Amazing work, keep it up!
Very cool Video! To Bombadil, my own headcanon would be that Bombadil is just Tolkien himself put into his story! That would be an interesting concept!
I think Tom is the personification of Tolkien in the story. He is the author of the tale. The all powerful being that only exist between the front and back cover. Within the book there are forces greater than him, in the end he can choose close the book. Or he is the reader. The reader also has the power to close the book, but the words exist without them being read.
I had a similar thought not long ago. Tom lives the life that perhaps Tolkien would have preferred above all; peaceful, pastoral, without strife, without worry, without responsibility.
I think you got the point Tolkien was talking about, as we should not take Tom Bombadil too serious.
You and the dorklords (only 1.5k) subs are some of the best channels on this stuff. I'll always watch, thank you for your effort on this (the best tom video in youtube)
Thank you very much. I'm really glad you enjoy the video!
I believe the theory that Tom Bombadil is the manifestation of the music of the Ainur. Think about it: In Finnish mythology singing has powers that changes reality, and Tom Bombadil is a singer. He "knows his song" (old man willow), and he has dominion over reality. He is summoned by song despite being miles away, likely. He is the music of the Ainur, in some sense.
yeah, my guess is he's part of the song of Eru, but... a weird splinter fragment. Also, he wasn't really meant to be part of Arda, but... entered anyways.
Facinating! Your expertise on the topic surpasses all that of other authors. I have watched each video a few times and find it difficult even to remember all those names! On totally unrealated issues, I wonder if you could make a video about how Tolkien wrote his books. He basically created a world where none had existed before, from scratch. How did he keep track of all the details like names, dates etc?
I like your theories.
As for Tom Bombadil I like o think he might be a personification or a humanoid extension of Middle Earth itself. It is often said that nature or certain natural things seem to have a character of their own. For example Caradhras semms to be fighting the "invaders." It would also explain why Treebeard is the oldest living creature to walk the earth - because either Tom is not a living creature or not walking the earth. Tom also uses song - the thing Arda is made from - to control / influence the things around him.
It would also explain why the ring has no power over him, it corrupts people, not nature (even though nature can be bend to its will) and is also explain why if all else fails Tom would fall. Goldberry could then be an afterthought as he found her some day by the water.
I know it has holes in it, but I like that idea and any idea is as good as another if there is no real answer :D
Bladorthin is one of the Nazgûl; Tom Bombadil is a genius loci, along with Goldberry.
There you go.
I was thinking about how tied Ungoliant is to the concept of hunger and gluttony and how that's not really a spider trait. It reminded me more of ticks which gorge themselves on blood inflating to many times their original size and it's super creepy to see first hand. But THEN, I remembered that ticks are arachnids too! Perhaps Tolkien was quite disturbed by the sight or idea of swollen ticks and tbh same they are very upsetting just to think about! 😱
Tom and Goldberry always reminded me of fairies from Irish folklore and they were Tolkien’s way of playing around with that lore in his writing.
I always think of Tom bumbledill as the interloper. The guy who is observing the history of middle Earth from the outside. The interloper from somewhere else. Maybe even the embodiment of the reader. After all to a linguist such as the author the reader is an integral part of the story. So why not actually give the reader a part in the story itself. Even if it is a part in passing.
I would love to hear your take on Kalevala's influence on Tolkien. Esp the parallels between Vainamoinen and Tom Bombadil.
All of your videos are great Dave, please keep them coming! Also enjoy your reddit posts.
Can't wait for the next video!
Great stories and theories, really enjoyed. Would fully agree that "Nameless things" are something similar to Ungoliant. Tom Bombadil - i would simply accept Mayar explain, someone with great defensive / healing / uncorrupted powers. Maybe one of the blue wizards? Possible but doubtful. Someone, like Radagast, but more "stable". In general, you've pointed it out at the end - the LOTR has been influenced by WWII flows and events, hence Tom Bombadil is one of self defensife players, who can resist, but not for very long.
Regarding Tom Bombadil, what Gandalf says of him is disproven by what actually happened with the Hobbits. Frodo was amazed to find that he willingly and easily gave Tom the ring when Tom asked for it so that shows that Tom can somewhat break the Ring's power over others. And Tom can make the Ring disappear so that means he has some form of control over the ring itself.
I'd argue that the greatest enigma is: Were was Gondor when the Westfold fell?!
Jk, LOVE your videos
Hahaha I should make a video about †hat!
Agree with you. I have always thought of Bombadil as a sort of Poltergeist, a manifestation of Arda's nature. That is why he is as old as the world. He is strong yet passive. His scope is as wide as the planet but he is diminished when nature is destroyed and would not survive the destruction of the biotope because .... he is the biotope.
Knowing the value Tolkien puts into nature/trees and pacifism, that all makes sense that this character, wholesome and fragile, would hold this special place.
That's how I always understood Tom's ability to withstand the Ring, simply put it had nothing to offer him, and as such he found no reason to desire it. Yet I feel he was wise enough to understand its power, knowing that it could not stay there.
I’ve always seen Bombadil as a manifestation of something bigger. Because of his elven name, the fact that he will literally forget about the ring, his complete lack of « ambition ». I’ve always seen him as the symbol of nature regrowth. Timeless and yet always young. Without objective, without ambition, just carrying on.
But I do love your take on the symbol of pacifism an more largely « just carry on with your simple life ». Not corrupted by power BUT we still need people willing to « take responsibility ». I think it makes perfect sense. Especially with Tolkien comments and his history.
By reading the comments that said that the nameless things could have been create at the same times as the song of creation, as pure evil and terrifying creature, maybe Tom Bombadill was created as a pure and good creature to balance those nameless things! That is indeed just speculation. i just recently fall into the rabbit hole of Tolkien lore with your channel. A few months ago I didn't even know what the silmarillions was about and who was Eru Illuvatar! Thanks to you, i learned a lot on one of the greatest fiction ever created!
Such an awesome thing that there are corners of the Legendarium that even Tolkien didn't explore.
I always though Tom/Goldberry was Tolkien and his wife Edith. He wrote the Hobbit during his syphillis stink in WW1 and I think he wanted a little bit of his world safe for him and Goldberry. It was before he had kids, so the Tom being Childless felt like a fear of his own future.
Beren and luthien
Great job in showing a HP Lovecraft monster at the end of your part about the Nameless Things , since they are very much like something he would have created.
Tom Bombadil reminds me a kind of a playful Leprauchan or Puck character that shows up in English folklore.
i really love your video and approach of Tolkien lores. I do have a theory on Tom Bombadil. After the destruction of Melkor, Yavanna told Manwe she wanted to create some protection for nature. The kelvar could run away, but the olvar (plants and trees) could not.She said : when the children are born, then Yavanna's spirit will also awaken. She will invoke distant powers who will come to mingle with the olvar and the kelvar and some will remain there who will be respected and whose just anger will be feared. This for a time; as long as the firstborn retain their power and those who follow them remain young. I always felt Tom is one of them.
Fantastic visions and analytics recit about the enigmatic mr tom bombadil the strange and mysterious personnage created by mr J.R.R TOLKIEN. thanks.
Not knowing where or how a piece fits isn't the same as the piece not fitting. I prefer it when they leave some questions unanswered. Filling in all the blanks leaves little to the imagination.
Nice work dude
The Nameless Things could be the echoes of the discordant notes Melchior sang into the Song of Creation at the beginning. That would indeed make them older.
Great video. Tom Bombadil was incorruptible, hence he could play the One Ring with impunity. I agree with your hypothesis that Tom was a peaceful being and that’s that enigma.
I think Tom Bombadil is the uncurruptable embodiment of kindness, and is the purest form of free will among the nature of Middle Earth that all other good souls should aspire to be like; a beacon of hope that there is "still good in this World that is worth fighting for" as Sam nicely puts it.
So I saw an episode on Extra Credits about LOTR that points out one of the major themes in LOTR's is the passing of the torch from one generation to the next and it helped form a plausible answer to the question "why is Tom Bombadil included in the story?".
Part of the passing of the torch, is the previous generation's desire to preserve elements of the world they hold dear, so they bestow gifts and wisdom to aid the next generation. But they also acknowledge there is unfinished business they are passing along as well, namely the ring.
This all lines up with the trilogy (its been a long time since I have read them though so I may be forgetting something, but it sounds true).
Given this theme, then Tom is kind of the opposite of Gandalf. In so much that while they both have much in common are kindly folk, Gandalf is motivated to resolve the issue of the ring, but Tom is indifferent. Gandalf and the Elves even seem a bit frustrated by this - in a polite sort of way of course.
So this is why Tom's included, it's to show the party entering the sphere of someone capable that is indifferent and then moving on. It's all done very civilly and without causing offence but it appears had Tom the will to do so, he probably could have come along and helped out a lot more, but he just did not feel that he needed to.
While his lack of ambition immunises him from the ring, it also seems to render him ignorant of his actual potential (though I seem to recall that he knows well enough he is quick witted). Tom's inaction also of makes the actions undertaken by Gandalf and the others shine all the brighter. His ancient and apparently unchanging nature also kind of represents some idealised version of what they are seeking to preserve and are leaving behind, to defend from Sauron and some of them at least, likely hope to return to when all is done (though Gandalf's probably been around the merry-go-round enough times to know better).
lol When Bombadil does a magic trick with the ring and Frodo freaks out!🤣
Tom is a nameless thing confirmed
I believe Tom is the embodiment of the power of innocence wisdom and conviction, being stead fast in who and what you are, and not allowing the world to change who you are inside. Goldberry is the embodiment of selflessness, nurturing and servitude, not in a slave sense, but wanting to serve the one you love and care for. Strong man and woman dynamics and how we are different yet complimentary to one another.
There is another fictional world that I'm a big fan of - it's The Dresden Files by Jim Butcher. In his world, there is a concept he calls "intellectus." This is where the magical energy of a region is so potent that it becomes sentient in its own right, and can manifest physically at times. This is how I interpret Tom. I think he and Goldberry just "arose from the Flame Imperishable" when Arda was first sung into existence. Or, maybe even before.
I think your last words on Tom are spot on.
I always wondered in the nameless things under Khazad-dum were related to the dark things that slept beneath Erebor - "In placed deep where dark things sleep / in hollow halls beneath the fells."
The nameless things, like ungoliant, are probably primordials that existed before Eru even created Ëa, a sort of lovecraftian beings.
Dorwinian is possible for Bladothien, but what about the remnants of Arnor? I believe Arthadein and Cardolin would be around Dale. Why Dale was a Lordship, not s kingdom at the time when Smaug attacked the first time. My favorite theory was that the Nameless Things happened between the Discord of Melkor and the Music of the Ainur. Hating both the song and the discord. I like the Theory also that Tom is the Avatar of Arda that wasn't marred by the felling of the 2 Lamps making Goldberry the avatar of water because Arda is both Earth and Water.
Not only did he create the lord of the rings and it’s accompanying universe he started it while in the trenches
Tom is the embodiment of joy and living life.
Bombadil is Tolkien. He made the world and was the only one there "before time"
I would love to hear you speculate on tom’s potential relationship to the ents. Maybe there’s something there. We can’t ask Tolkien, so all we have are theories anyway
I think Tom and Goldberry are the living manifestation of the thoughts of Eru, from the Music
But🤷♀️💙💙
I think of Tom Bombadil as likely a Maia that came into Arda with the Valar or very shortly thereafter. I think people get too caught up on him being called "oldest and fatherless" by men, elves and dwarves. We are looking at the situation from the outside. We are able to look at all of Tolkien's writings and "know the code". Beings in world would know Tom as a mysterious being at best (those who knew of him at all) and would likely only know that he seems to have been around as long as anyone can remember. Even the Wise during the Council of Elrond had almost forgotten him. Elrond says, "But I had forgotten Bombadil, if indeed this is still the same that walked the woods and hills long ago, and even then was older than the old." Tom himself tells the hobbits, "Eldest, that's what I am... Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn... He knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless - before the Dark Lord came from Outside." So he is clearly ancient but he doesn't give his exact origin.
The only reason I know about King Bladorthin is because his name was in the Hobbit video game. (I’ve also heard that because of his musical skills and the fact that he’s associated with singing, Tom Bombadil could be a byproduct of the music of the Ainur.)
I have always subscribed to the theory that Bladorthin was an elf and Dorwinion is one of the realms of the Avari. Past their awakening and refusal to go west, we know nothing about what happened to them and so I would love for this to be a way to include them past the deepest mythological history.
Love your videos. I think your knowledge of the legendarium is amazing. Do u have a video of the fall of gondolin posted yet
Thanks! Not yet, but I'm working through the first age chronologically, so I'll do a whole playlist on Gondolin in the relatively near future.
I see Tom Bombadil as the embodiment of the "Spirit of Freedom". The ring has no power over him because its purpose is to enslave, but, Freedom can't by its nature be enslaved. I think this is why it is said during the council of Elrond that He would fall last just as he was first. This also fits into the idea of him likely forgetting about the ring where upon it would eventually again seek to return. Freedom tends to focus on the present, future, and near future rather than the strategic far future. When the concept of Freedom is irradiated so then would its personification- Tom Bombadil.
When tectonic plates meet, one is shoved up, and one is shoved down. I am in the camp that believes that Tom is the opposite of Ungoliant. They were created by the discord between the themes. And that's why they were in middle earth before anything else. They're not creations, per se, but by products. Tom thrives in Eru's creation, the woods and wilds, and his dominion over them is decreased as those places were changed by the children of Illuvatar. Same as Ungoliant thrives in the shadow and darkness which, again, is changed by the children. Even Melkor feared the power of Ungoliant. And even Gandalf and the elves are amazed at the power of Tom, but they know his power is tied to the changing of the world. Without darkness Ungoliant has no place to hide. Without a natural realm, Tom has no place to sing. In Sauron's vision of middle earth, there would be so few woods left that Tom and his power are useless. Tom is the strife of Illuvatar lifted up, Ungoliant is the strife of Melkor mashed down. Tl;Dr
Also Tom backwords is Mot and Mot is the french word for well "word " as in many storys out of different religions the universe was made with a single word, in ancient language of Israel word and knowledge are seen as the same. You could say Tom means wisdom. The lord of the rings is like a lot of real life spiritual storys talking about the slowly leaving magic and the vanishing of nature and glee. The ancient times full of golden light stolen or corrupted to the point people forget all about it. Tom is the persona of the old ways, the witches dancing around the fire the golden forest full of magic the age of heroes the age of wisdom... light and dark spirits fighting, now the young people humans are left alone and the old teachers of good and evil are fading, magic replaced with science. No longer light or darkness the grey age is coming. That was a strong part of tolkiens mindset. Tom is probably the spirit of nature and freedom the one dancing in moonlight like the wise people of old storys. Tolkien safed some of the feelings in his books to share with the children of the future. So the past would not die. A little faith in magic and fantasy was safe today we are the children and his wisdom still matters. Tom is nature. To make it simple. I do not know why. But i believe this is tolkiens idea. Tom is the old wisdom. Tom Riddle by the way is a name way older then harry potter and was not always seen as evil. The crow song and many other tales of celtic times talk about a funny guy called tom that was also just called the riddle he was known to teach and be full of wisdom acting like a child and never getting old while beeing older then every human. He was the inspiration for many tales of good witches and wizards protecting nature and the partner of numa or nimueh. Tolkien loved ancient fairytales and king arthurs oundtable has actualy the town " Orckenstein " home of so called Orcks they did inspire the orcs nimueh was later called the lady of the lake and her partner merlin the wise. As Goldberry is also connected with water like nimueh we see the inspiration. Merlin was called a blue wizard the blue wizards used to fight against sauron some got corrupted some vanished. I used to believe tom might be one of them. Of course in the old legends Nimueh is not the same as morgan le fay the enemy of merlin nimueh is seen as the one that loves nature and life water and the ocean. She is seen as similar to numaeh from the annunaki myth and Tom is also seen as Enki the god of water. Some storys tell they created humans. Also South Sudan has an instrument called Tom that can summon rain. The story says a gift from the god of riddles. So we can see Tolkien probably made his Version be the spirit of nature the old gods and the teacher just like the inspiration with the same name.
Dorwinion is the furthest east kingdom of Men of the West, formerly part of the kingdom of Rhovanion, whereas the Easterlings would come from past the sea of Rhun.
It has been speculated that there was at one point an Avari settlement there, or perhaps some lingering few individuals.
I suspect Tom Bombadil was a subplot that Tolkien ran out out of steam on and abandoned. I wouldn’t even be surprised if he simply forgot to remove it from the final edition of the book.
Personally, I feel like he's the "subject" of a verse of the song of creation. Like he's the Gardner of Ea, and they sang about him. Probably not necessarily close but I like it.
I always looked at it as Tom Bombadil and Goldberry River-Daughter being little splinters of Eru Iluvatar, attached to Arda as it formed, as a way for Eru to personally experience his creation in the same manner as the beings who would inhabit it. Tom and Goldberry are not there to act as or for Eru,, simply to experience the world for Eru. As such, none of the corrupting influences of Arda could affect them. They are incorruptible, just as Eru is incorruptible. I mean, if they became corrupted, they would not serve their purpose of letting Eru experience his creation in the manner that its inhabitants did. Think of their corruption as Eru's surveillance cameras going out and not showing the scene... if you look at it like that, then how Tom and Goldberry act is totally in character with their purpose in Eru's creation.
Tom bombadil is a doomsday weapon..The music of the Ainur manifested in physical form..placed on Arda in the event Melkor's discoed is ever victorious..his physical form is confined to the old forest..once he leaves his form reverts.. pouring out music of the ainur over the land..wiping it clean to start anew.
13:04 the art is making me think of sandworms lol that's a completely different set of books.
I see Tom Bombadil as a linguistic puzzle set by Tolkien for himself. If Tom really comes from a time before there was adult evil and corruption (and he does, given that he existed in Tolkien's children stories before Tolkien really understood how important evil would be in LotR) then how could Tolkien be true to both creations once he transported Tom into Middle Earth? Tolkien could not change Tom but instead he had to give him the dialogue of a creature that had lived before Morgoth's corruption and was immune to corruption himself because he literally did and was. For example, Tom "just is" because Tolkien never wrote him an origin and the ring doesn't effect him because Tolkien gave him joyful child-like powers so he couldn't be corrupted years before LotR existed. Yes it is a little odd but Tolkien's belief in secondary worlds rather than imaginary ones (see ON FAIRY STORIES by JRR TOLKIEN) explains this very well.
I'm not clear on why King Bladorthin is stressed as "obviously an elven name," with the only discussion being whether he was an elf with a standard name or a man with an elven name. When I read it, I assumed it was referring to another _dwarven_ king, which are generally unremarked anyway and made for a much simpler explanation: one dwarf-lord crafts some gear for another but doesn't wind up completing the deal. The sound of "bladorthin" is a bit flat and clunky, which suits a dwarven name well.
My personal impression about Tom Bombadil (and possibly the Ents too) is that he's an aspect of creation that the Valar simply weren't involved with. Eru/Iluvatar crafted the world with the Ainur's participation, but there's no reason he couldn't have added other elements on his own, without their knowledge. Maybe that's behind Ungoliant or some of the Nameless Things too--either a spontaneous creation of the world itself or the sole act of Iluvatar.
bladorfthin could've been an elf but the info on him was lost during one of the wars or he could even have been seen as a disgrace due to losing some important battle somewhere so they might've just erased his name
I'm inclined to believe Tom and the nameless things are born of the discord during the Ainulindalë
For mysteries like Tom, or Ungoliant, or other ancient beings without explicit origins, Of Aulë and Yavanna from the Silmarillion does a LOT of heavy lifting, particularly this paragraph:
'O Kememtári, Eru hath spoken, saying: "Do then any of the Valar suppose I did not hear all the Song, even the least sound of the least voice? Behold! When the Children awake, then the thought of Yavanna will awake also, and it will summon spirits from afar, and they will go among the kelvar and the olvar, and some will dwell therein, and their just anger will be feared. For a time: while the Firstborn are in their power and while the Scondborn are young." But dost thou not now remember, Kementâri, that thy thought sang not always alone? Did not thy thought and mine meet also, so that we took wing together like great birds that soar above the clouds? That also shall come to be by the heed of Ilúvatar, and before the Children awake there shall go forth with wings like the wind the Eagles of the Lords of the West.'
From this we get the Ents, specifically referenced a few paragraphs later, and the Eagles. But also other spirits, some that dwell within plant and beast, some that don't. Perhaps Tom Bombadil is of the latter sort, and the River Daughter Goldberry a blending of Yavanna's voice with Ulmo's. As every voice is heard and heeded, maybe the Nameless Things came from Ainur whose songs were disturbed by Melkor, perhaps among them some who decided to remain with Eru rather than venture to Eä to witness and put name to what this marring of their music had wrought. You can infer an awful lot with just this paragraph and the Ainulindalë.
Doesn't particularly help with King Bladorthin though.
I think it's shame how Bombadil has been interpreted. It seems to have been agreed by most of the fantasy artists that he should be drawn as some kind of Jolly Leprechaun who would look at home waving a pint of Guinness and some sugary cereal.
Maybe if his singing had been described more as melodic (but possibly dangerous) enchantments and his dancing was less comical and more like a very rhythmic martial-art, he might have made it into the films? Which would then have given us the proper origin of why the hobbits happen to be carrying mystical elven swords - instead of "Hello, I'm Strider. Here's some swords!"
Tom Bombadil is Allu Vittar just like Fizban the Fabulous is Paladine in Dragonlance that’s been my theory for decades.
I wonder if Tom Bombadil might be inspired in some part by the pagan 'Green Man of the Forest' of olde England?
i beleive that tom embodies all goodness and innocence that the elves dwarves and men and women lacked,.
Tolkien should look himself in the mirror when he said "taking it to seriously" ... like dude you created an entire language and history to a fictitious world and we are taking it to seriously lol
Tolkien was big on the idea that you can't reveal everything in a story. Which meant he intentionally left out certain things. Conspicuously so in this case.
After watching this video, I wonder if Bombadil is the personification of hope. Hope is an immensely powerful force, yet by itself cannot defeat evil. If Sauron would have won, all hope would have died. Perhaps the sprang from the hope of Ilúvatar himself much in the way that there were primordial gods in mythology.
I like to think that Tom is just an elemental force of "good energy." Sort of an anti-ungoliant. I think they are both more of an effect of Illuvatar than a creation of Him
I suppose Tom could be a Maia because that explains his ability to "talk" the change into the world as Ainur can do, and the reason that The One Ring has no effect on him is because, and I derive it from what Gandalf said in Rivendel, Tom cares not about the ring, nor power nor domination. He is ambitionless and the Ring has nothing to cling to. Gandalf said that he would loose the ring somewhere because he would forget about it. Bilbo and Frodo are hobbits and they care more about "food and cheer and song" and the Ring has weaker influence over them. Boromir for example wants power (it doesn't matter for what purpose) and he is corrupted just by being near to the ring for some time. So I believe that explains why Ring has no power over him. What Tom is I do not know... he might be a byproduct of the Ainulindale, but why would he have any kind of power over the rest of the creation in a way only Ainur have (powerful elves also but only in a very minor way, and Tom is extremely powerful, the world does as he says, that's an Ainur power)?
Considering the creation part is basically a conscious creator Christian Gnostic variant these things could predate literally everyone and everything.
I have seen you go back and forth on who created them and how they can be older than Sauron with out considering that they were not created and come from outside of creation and the realm of Eru Ilúvatar.
They could have existed and been trapped by the creation of the realm or drawn to it.
Melkor interrupted Eru two times at first. On the third time, he continued composing, and declared that these Petty annoyances are also part of his grand song. So, perhaps, these enigmas and anomalies are leftover vestiges from the first two? Or, perhaps, they were self-created by the song in the end according to the Creator's will
For me I gain understanding of Tom Bombadil from reading Puck of Pooks hill, by Rudyard Kipling. Tom Bombadil is not Puck but has many Puck like qualities.
Thanks again
"Far, far below the deepest delving of the Dwarves, the world is gnawed by nameless things. Even Sauron knows them not. They are older than he. Now I have walked there, but I will bring no report to darken the light of day."
The "under deeps" as they've been called were a world unto their own, possibly co-opted or connected by morgoth at some during the spring of arda, as there is some mention of underground caverns he had his forces use to avoid Orome. The caves stretched far north, to the iron hills at minimum and canonnically to the mountain Gollum hid in, possibly all the way to Utumno and Angband which were originally connected underground and morgoth was said to have dug impossibly deep and long tunnels with "engines" so who really knows. Hell, they could go all the way to Mordor for all we know.
Now If Gandalf is correct (and he usually is) it's thusly assumed Morgoth may have in his tunneling found creatures older than even Eru. (hear me out). If Eru came into being it could be considered other less brilliant life may have predated him, examples of this could also include Ungoliant who is also suspected to be born of the darkness before existence. It also makes Melkor's isolation in the void in the Songs now more sinister. Now (in this context) the term "nameless thing" now implies "not created by the Valar", who of course named everything they made. Perhaps all the earth was built around such creatures to contain them, for they are in the deeps of the world only. Tom Bombadil himself could also possibly be considered a nameless thing, albeit paradoxically as he is named.
Either way the point I'm getting to is that all this implies while escaping the fall of Angband Durin's Bane fled most likely directly from the tunnels in Angband into the UnderDeeps and was able to escape them only when the dwarves dug into the top of them most likely due to the breaking of the world messing up the tunnels. Durin's Bane in this way might be seen as a mercy, as the horrors down the Dwarves could have encountered instead were probably bad enough that a balrog would rather slay a civilization worth of dwarves and risk the wrath of the valar or Maia than spend another moment down there.
If there was ever to be a sequel to the series it would or should have been about this and not the book tolkien himself abandoned. Lotr deals with good vs evil but all within the domain of light and life, sauron and morgoth being ultimately beings of light created by Eru.
I think Tom represents Tolkien inserting himself into the story. Who could be better described as "oldest" than the author?
Perhaps the nameless things are the results of the dissonance Melkor introduced into the song of creation, the Einulindaliae, I'm sure I spelled that wrong.
Sup dude got a question if you see this.when celebrimbor forged the rings with the s man what did he think that would do?what was the deception from sauron?
This is a good question. It's often believed that Sauron's deceptive gift was rings of power, but this is of course not true. The rings came later. Sauron's deception was his fair form and his gift of ring-lore; the knowledge with which he and Celebrimbor forged the rings of power. But this ring-lore was inherently evil, and any ring that was made with this knowledge was forever bound to Sauron and his one ring. I think Celebrimbor hoped to make powerful and beautiful jewellery (not unlike his grandfather's Silmarils), but due to Sauron's deception, everything he made was infected by Sauron's malice and bound to his ruling ring.
With Sauroman the Multicolored, makes me wonder why you picked the name, “Rainbow Dave?”
Good video and fun speculation. I'm not sure that the fact that being insusceptible to corruption and acquisitiveness is not a general power of the Maiar necessarily means that Bombadil couldn't have been a Maia. Many of the Maiar have special powers or affinities that come to them by virtue of them being Maiar, but which are not general to all Maiar. Caring nothing for acquisition and the accumulation of power may simply be Bombadil's specific Maia nature. It may even be that there is some relationship between this trait and the woods that Tom Bombadil loves and inhabits, though I haven't devised an argument to support this notion.
I like the theory that Bombadil is Father Time and Goldberry is Mother Nature ☺️
How does Goldberry wash away the hope yet still have it grow?
Great video
Tom bombadil could have been daeron the master of music, and he found love after luthien left with beren
I didn’t know about Tom, i think he is very crucial in the story, without him the hobbits would have been captured sooner, without him, the four Hobbits wouldn’t have had weapons to defend themselves which they used until the black gate battle in Mordor, as a cinema historian, i can say that I’m 100% sure Jackson omitted Tom because Jackson’s films are visually influenced by the Animated film, so we need to ask why the director of the Animated film omitted Tom, sometimes i feel the two women who wrote the screenplays for the jackson trilogy did not read the books at all.
Only Tom Bombadil knows all the answers.. considering he is the oldest being ever in Middle Earth (for what we know off)
Perhaps Tom is just an embodiment of the Secret Fire, a bellwether of the health and happinness of living things in Arda.
Tom Is Thanos after the snap. Just living the simple life.
My conclusion about Tom Bombadil is similar to yours but maybe with a slightly different emphasis. I saw Tom Bombadil as the Avatar or the reification of nature, in particular he could be viewed as Arda itself. The character little bit like mother nature. A character unconcerned about the Affairs of men the, virtually oblivious to them and offering Bounty and peace for those that seek to withdraw from scary things war and Power. Seemingly Untouchable but like the natural world the Affairs of men if they go uncontrolled could even threatened the Earth itself as the war machine of Sauron would eventually destroy the natural world the way Saruman ruined a forest. You could also be seen as Kindred or similar to the treant something that wasn't just dedicated to a species of trees or all the trees but all the natural world living and Geographic. The mountains and the rivers and the winds, the squirrels and the berry bushes and the birds in the sky. He embodied the frightening power the benign indifference of our planet
Isn't it possible that the Nameless Things actually existed before the creations of the world, before Illuvatàr himself? It reminds me of Chaos in the greek mythology. The universe does not begin with nothing. The creation means the rising of Order, which can be assimilated to Harmony (and thus to hamonic music). And Illuvatàr trapped those chaotic things in the foundations of Arda.
Regarding Bombadil, I like to think of him as the Ainur of total freedom. He is so free of everything (in a kind of Buddhist way) that the Ring has no hold over him, but also that the outcome of the wars... sort of slide on him; even they have no grasp on him. Which is strange to say when it come to a basically good being, but this is how I feel.
Impossible for something to exist before Iluvatar, for he is the reason of existence
Perhaps the burrowing, nameless things were langoliers? Those things that eat reality itself, as time passes, cleaning up after the present and the future? Is Stephen King a "Ringer?"
I'm confused. In another video (Top ten best dwarves or something akin), you make the argument for pronouncing Dain "Dah-een", Gloin "Glo-een" etc because Tolkien's son spoke of them creating characters in Tolkien's world, including Go-in the dwarf and... I think it was Scandalf the wizard? Which leads one to assume that Gandalf was named after Scandalf this whole time. Yet in this video you mention Gandalf had a completely different name to start?
I doubt I'll get an answer to this with how old the video is, but never hurts to try.
Is it possible that Tom is simply the physical incarnation of Eru Iluvatar on Arda? Similar to the way Gandalf and the Astari are physical forms of the Miar?
I think that's very possible. The only difference being that Eru can come and go as he pleases and simply doesn't tell anyone who he really is. Tom is always singing and his music is power after all. And Eru used music to create the world...