Interesting exploration of Bombadil and Goldberry. Although they are sort of oddities in Tolkien's universe of otherwise deeply interconnected characters, I felt they were sort of avatars of nature, with Tom being wood and Goldberry water. I imagined Tom and Goldberry sort of popping up organically shortly after Middle Earth was formed, and then one day they met, representing the connection between water and growing things. That seemed satisfactory to me.
This is my very humble personal thought on Tom Bombadil. I have always thought of him as Santa Claus. A symbol of goodness that is above the influence of the negative effects of evil. He's an enigma with just a hint of a history that can make him almost realistic. A passive force for good and a light hearted spirit. A jolly old soul. That's just my belief.
this is the best tolkien lore channell by far. your interpretation of Tom Bombadil is the most insightful and accurate I have ever found. I've always interpreted him as a purer form of an hobbit, kinda of an archetype of what an happy man should look like in tolkien's mind, just content with the little that he has, living a secluded life from society, in harmony with nature and the woman he loves. Nothing more, nothing less. Afterall, you can't deny that Tom has many similiraties with the hobbits. first, he's jolly, he sings all the time, he likes food and lives a life that's separated from the rest of the world just as the hobbits did for their entire history before Bilbo. Also the point in lotr where he's introduced is quite fitting. at the beginning, where the story has just started but has yet to reveal anything that matters for middle earth. He's a carachther of lotr, but in the end he's completely irrelevant to the plot (to the point that in the movie like in the cartoon he's simply cut off). He's just out of time, like in a fable (which lotr is definetely not). That's why I find your idea as him as nothing more than a cameo extremely on point. If he has something in common with god, like many people suggested, it's just the fact that he's happy, and reminds a bit of Adam and Eve from christian mithology, representing human kind before the corruption coming from the desire to know. And indeed Tom really doesn't want to know, he doesn't care for the ring nor for anything of middle earth. He's out of time and out of space. All he cares is living his life with Goldberry. Hence his irrelevant role in the the narration.
Really good points! I definitely think you're right about Tom's closeness (both geographically and thematically) to Hobbits. If he lived in an elven wood or within the borders of Gondor it would seem very different, but he doesn't. He simply dwells in the Old Forest between the Shire and the true wilds. He even seems very hobbitish in his mannerisms and personality. I don't think Tom could exist in a world without Hobbits. (Although obviously he's been around in Middle-earth way longer than them).
I like the theory that Tom Bombadil, the nameless things, and Ungoliant were all unintentional byproducts of the music of the Ainur. They did not realize what they were creating when they were singing until Eru Illuvatar revealed it to them, so it stands to reason that there may have been some phenomena, both good and bad, that came about from little details in the music, and only Illuvatar himself was aware of from the beginning.
well, in one version of the story (or so I heard) Tolkein's description of the creation of Arda mentions that certain "things" that aren't really part of Arda crept in. Which would explain how tom is unaffected by the ring. Maybe It only works on beings from Arda. I kinda suspect Ungoliant is also one. but is this considered canon now? Hard to say.... :/
I like this theory as well, also, to me Bombadil is the Music it self or at least a Spawn of Music, he doesn't take sides and it seems he knows all the hacks (with is music) to "correct" things with Music and in Tolkien's Legendarium Music is the most important of all things, it's creation it self
I like the idea that both, bombadil ans ungoliant are positive and negative aspects of "primordial silence" in relation to the song of the ainur. - Since silence can both heal and soothe but also terrify.
Many have pointed out, the Moria sequence contains a lot of "cosmic horror". This is a trademark of the American author HP Lovecraft. Some have inferred a direct influence. Actually there is another author whom Lovecraft himself acknowledged as an influence, and whose works might have reached young Tolkien: the British fantasy writer William Hope Hodgson who was killed in the First World War, aged 41, in 1918. In Hodgson's 1907 novel, 'The Boats of the Glen Carrig' he describes squid-like tentacled things. Another novel, 'The Night Land' (1912) supplies the name of the Watchers (they are giant mountain-like things). Meanwhile 'The House on the Borderland' (1908) includes the device of the narrator who (as Brian Aldiss put it in 'Billion Year Spree') "continues desperately scribbling his journal until the very moment that he goes insane or his head is bitten off by the hidden menace." From 'The Night Land': "Before me ran The Road Where The Silent Ones Walk; and I searched it, as many a time in my earlier youth had I, with the spy-glass; for my heart was always stirred mightily by the sight of those Silent Ones. And presently, alone in all the miles of that night-grey road, I saw one in the field of my glass - a quiet, cloaked figure, moving along, shrouded, and looking neither to right nor left"
Very cool Video! To Bombadil, my own headcanon would be that Bombadil is just Tolkien himself put into his story! That would be an interesting concept!
That last Tolkien quote I often feel like is at the core of what really makes his stories so compelling and why you might spend hours days or even years of your life even if just in some quiet part of the back of your mind, mulling over and wondering about the origins of these enigmatic beings and characters. He truly understood that a great story doesn't just leave you satisfied, when your given an answer sometimes it leads to 2 more questions and I think that's inherently beautiful and he understood it better than most.
Of course rainbow Dave hits the nail on the head as always. Imagine what we would have lost had everything been perfectly explained and wrapped up with a little bow. My first favorite myth in the legendarium was Ungoliant because here by the power of this previously unknown creature will the light of the trees be cast down, will our big bad grow to fear her himself. it's the little "pieces that don't fit" as Dave put it that I feel like hold my mind the longest. Phenomenal work as always.
Hell come t think of it, I'd read a whole book just on Ungoliant before and after the piece we do get in the Silmarillion. Well as long as the after isn't just giant spider erotic fiction lol....
In The History of Middle-Earth, specifically in Morgoth's Ring, we learn that creatures were created during the Ainulindale, not out of any of the themes, but out of the discord between them and that they neither serve Morgoth nor Iluvatar and there's a theory that they are the nameless things
You and the dorklords (only 1.5k) subs are some of the best channels on this stuff. I'll always watch, thank you for your effort on this (the best tom video in youtube)
Evil can’t create, and only Eru can create sentient life…the idea of the nameless things being the result of Melkor trying to truly create real life and massively and disastrously biting off more than he can chew is *fascinating*
The Nameless Things would fit perfectly in a H.P. Lovecraft story. I'd be surprised if Tolkien ever read any Lovecraft - although it is certainly possible he was aware of Lovecrafts work. Possible, but doubtful. Still, I think the Nameless Things were intended to be their own separate horrors apart from Morgoth and the rest of Tolkiens mythology. As I think was the case with Tom Bombadil, Tolkien had the idea readily at hand while he was writing- but unlike his other ideas, they feel slightly patched in and not an outgrowth from Middle Earth and what inspired it. I've read the entire trilogy, back to back, 4 or 5 times, and Tom struck me from the beginning to be a force of nature more than an actual person- more akin to an Ent than a human. Tom was a sort of wood spirit, and Goldberry was a type of river spirit.
" elves love to talk about dead elves, it's like their favorite thing to do " Sitting here laughing at that line, and a great example of how unique your content is. I feel like I'm taking a college course on Tolkien from a GREAT professor.
Facinating! Your expertise on the topic surpasses all that of other authors. I have watched each video a few times and find it difficult even to remember all those names! On totally unrealated issues, I wonder if you could make a video about how Tolkien wrote his books. He basically created a world where none had existed before, from scratch. How did he keep track of all the details like names, dates etc?
I think Tom is the personification of Tolkien in the story. He is the author of the tale. The all powerful being that only exist between the front and back cover. Within the book there are forces greater than him, in the end he can choose close the book. Or he is the reader. The reader also has the power to close the book, but the words exist without them being read.
I had a similar thought not long ago. Tom lives the life that perhaps Tolkien would have preferred above all; peaceful, pastoral, without strife, without worry, without responsibility.
I wonder if the discord Melkor created in the music, which was performed in the void, could have somehow agitated an otherwise benign force (the void) into manifesting as such nameless creatures. Which then accidentally became entangled within Arda, simply by proximity to its creation. That could explain why they seem to try to hide away from the rest of Arda itself, almost like they can sense their own alienness to the world and hate the life they never asked for in a world they were never built for.
Let's face it. Arda is set in Lovecraft verse. Eru is just a nickname of Blind Mad God and this whole symphony myth is Valar way of coping with that one time when Azathoth started to carry a tune, accidentally creating a world while humming. This whole world is just a sheet of consistent reality thrown over a small region of primeval chaos by the Mad One for its own entertainment. The nameless creatures... well. They were there before and some just got inside of literal reality bubble out of curiosity.
I was thinking the nameless things are void creatures as well that got caught up in the creation of Arda. And since it's a material world they took forms to exist there
I think Tom Bombadil is the uncurruptable embodiment of kindness, and is the purest form of free will among the nature of Middle Earth that all other good souls should aspire to be like; a beacon of hope that there is "still good in this World that is worth fighting for" as Sam nicely puts it.
I like your theories. As for Tom Bombadil I like o think he might be a personification or a humanoid extension of Middle Earth itself. It is often said that nature or certain natural things seem to have a character of their own. For example Caradhras semms to be fighting the "invaders." It would also explain why Treebeard is the oldest living creature to walk the earth - because either Tom is not a living creature or not walking the earth. Tom also uses song - the thing Arda is made from - to control / influence the things around him. It would also explain why the ring has no power over him, it corrupts people, not nature (even though nature can be bend to its will) and is also explain why if all else fails Tom would fall. Goldberry could then be an afterthought as he found her some day by the water. I know it has holes in it, but I like that idea and any idea is as good as another if there is no real answer :D
Great stories and theories, really enjoyed. Would fully agree that "Nameless things" are something similar to Ungoliant. Tom Bombadil - i would simply accept Mayar explain, someone with great defensive / healing / uncorrupted powers. Maybe one of the blue wizards? Possible but doubtful. Someone, like Radagast, but more "stable". In general, you've pointed it out at the end - the LOTR has been influenced by WWII flows and events, hence Tom Bombadil is one of self defensife players, who can resist, but not for very long.
I believe the theory that Tom Bombadil is the manifestation of the music of the Ainur. Think about it: In Finnish mythology singing has powers that changes reality, and Tom Bombadil is a singer. He "knows his song" (old man willow), and he has dominion over reality. He is summoned by song despite being miles away, likely. He is the music of the Ainur, in some sense.
yeah, my guess is he's part of the song of Eru, but... a weird splinter fragment. Also, he wasn't really meant to be part of Arda, but... entered anyways.
Great video. Tom Bombadil was incorruptible, hence he could play the One Ring with impunity. I agree with your hypothesis that Tom was a peaceful being and that’s that enigma.
That's how I always understood Tom's ability to withstand the Ring, simply put it had nothing to offer him, and as such he found no reason to desire it. Yet I feel he was wise enough to understand its power, knowing that it could not stay there.
Agree with you. I have always thought of Bombadil as a sort of Poltergeist, a manifestation of Arda's nature. That is why he is as old as the world. He is strong yet passive. His scope is as wide as the planet but he is diminished when nature is destroyed and would not survive the destruction of the biotope because .... he is the biotope. Knowing the value Tolkien puts into nature/trees and pacifism, that all makes sense that this character, wholesome and fragile, would hold this special place.
By reading the comments that said that the nameless things could have been create at the same times as the song of creation, as pure evil and terrifying creature, maybe Tom Bombadill was created as a pure and good creature to balance those nameless things! That is indeed just speculation. i just recently fall into the rabbit hole of Tolkien lore with your channel. A few months ago I didn't even know what the silmarillions was about and who was Eru Illuvatar! Thanks to you, i learned a lot on one of the greatest fiction ever created!
Love your content, Superb. I do try to argue with your logic but find it quite hard ! The history of any world , ours or fiction, is predominantly written by the Victor's
I’ve always seen Bombadil as a manifestation of something bigger. Because of his elven name, the fact that he will literally forget about the ring, his complete lack of « ambition ». I’ve always seen him as the symbol of nature regrowth. Timeless and yet always young. Without objective, without ambition, just carrying on. But I do love your take on the symbol of pacifism an more largely « just carry on with your simple life ». Not corrupted by power BUT we still need people willing to « take responsibility ». I think it makes perfect sense. Especially with Tolkien comments and his history.
i really love your video and approach of Tolkien lores. I do have a theory on Tom Bombadil. After the destruction of Melkor, Yavanna told Manwe she wanted to create some protection for nature. The kelvar could run away, but the olvar (plants and trees) could not.She said : when the children are born, then Yavanna's spirit will also awaken. She will invoke distant powers who will come to mingle with the olvar and the kelvar and some will remain there who will be respected and whose just anger will be feared. This for a time; as long as the firstborn retain their power and those who follow them remain young. I always felt Tom is one of them.
Regarding Tom Bombadil, what Gandalf says of him is disproven by what actually happened with the Hobbits. Frodo was amazed to find that he willingly and easily gave Tom the ring when Tom asked for it so that shows that Tom can somewhat break the Ring's power over others. And Tom can make the Ring disappear so that means he has some form of control over the ring itself.
I always think of Tom bumbledill as the interloper. The guy who is observing the history of middle Earth from the outside. The interloper from somewhere else. Maybe even the embodiment of the reader. After all to a linguist such as the author the reader is an integral part of the story. So why not actually give the reader a part in the story itself. Even if it is a part in passing.
Great job in showing a HP Lovecraft monster at the end of your part about the Nameless Things , since they are very much like something he would have created.
I was thinking about how tied Ungoliant is to the concept of hunger and gluttony and how that's not really a spider trait. It reminded me more of ticks which gorge themselves on blood inflating to many times their original size and it's super creepy to see first hand. But THEN, I remembered that ticks are arachnids too! Perhaps Tolkien was quite disturbed by the sight or idea of swollen ticks and tbh same they are very upsetting just to think about! 😱
I like to think that Tom is the "Music" made manifest and allowed to coexists as a symbol of what was meant to be instead of what was made thanks to Melkor's chaos. I think Tom is a physical manifestation of what the Music was meant to create, and a reminder of what happens when ill intent begets purposed design.
We know something else about Tom Bombadil, that he actively helped the heroes of the story accomplish their goals. First by rescuing the 4 hobbits from Old Willow, than again in the Barrow Downs, culminating with his gift to them of the 4 daggers, 1 of which was used to ultimately slay the Witch King of Angmar. These sort of interventions, quite subtle in their own way yet with incredibly long term consequences are precisely the way Eru Iluvatar intervened in the lives of his creations. So at the very least we know he was acting as an agent of Eru Iluvatar during those times. I don't like the way you dismissed the theory that Tom Bombadil is Eru Iluvatar himself. Yes, he Tom Bombadil didn't show us anything to suggest he's as powerful as Eru Iluvatar, however just as the Istari were sent to middle earth with significantly less power than they actually had as Maiar, so could Eru Iluvatar create his earthly form with only a fraction of his overall power and with a very specific objective. The letter you quoted of Tolkien can be read literally, as a flat out no. However it could also be read in 'some mysteries don't need to be solved' manner, making it much more of a non answer than a flat out no. Moreover is an earthly manifestation of Eru Iluvatar without his full godly power actually the equivalent of god? Another similar theory in this vein is that Tom Bombadil is the manifestation of Tolkien himself in his own story. In both cases, Eru Iluvatar or Tolkien, Tom Bombadil would be a character of immense power, but also of overwhelming restrictions on said power. After all both Eru Iluvatar and Tolkien valued the free will of their creations above all else, which means that their level of interference in their creations' business had to be as minimal as possible. Which is why Eru Iluvatar intervened so few times in the story, and only when the likelihood of his children being dominated by the Ainur was all but certain. This would both explains Tom's immense power, his assistance to the 4 hobbits which turned out to be incredibly important down the line and of course his attitude towards the ring. The biggest downside here are the references to him in the Council of Elrond, but even those are still explainable by the fact that the characters themselves didn't have complete knowledge of who Tom was, not even Gandalf, or that perhaps Eru(or Tolkien) gave them false information on purpose in order for them to have reached the conclusions that they did as to not force Tom Bombadil to play a larger role in the story.
Love your stuff 🥰 Dorwinion shows to be unexpectedly compelling. Actually the lands east of the sea of Rhûn are considered to be "the" East and realm of men of darkness, while I think Dorwinion, as it is bordering the old kingdom of Rhovanion, may culturally and geographically still belong to the middle men. House Hador and House Beor dwelt on opposing sides of the Sea of Rhûn for a time as they migrated away from the shadow in the East. Wonder if the Dorwinians realised that they returned to some of their ancestor's homes...
… or maybe they never left, which would make Dorwinion older than just about any other Mannish settlement or kingdom… older than anything in Beleriand, vastly older than Númenor and downright archaic in comparison with Gondor and Arnor. Lots of time for King of the Thin Bladder to have existed alongside the also ancient dwarves of the eastern lands. Which means… very old vines indeed.
Wonderfully narrated as always. Perhaps Tom was an emissary of Eru, afterall Gandalf did stay with Tom for 2 years after the war. Or maybe he reported to an Ainur still in heaven. Which one? Who knows and Tolkien was right to keep unexplained mysteries in the Legendarium. Life would be boring and mundane if everything had an explanation and was wrapped in a bow tie. 🎀
There is another fictional world that I'm a big fan of - it's The Dresden Files by Jim Butcher. In his world, there is a concept he calls "intellectus." This is where the magical energy of a region is so potent that it becomes sentient in its own right, and can manifest physically at times. This is how I interpret Tom. I think he and Goldberry just "arose from the Flame Imperishable" when Arda was first sung into existence. Or, maybe even before. I think your last words on Tom are spot on.
I, for some reason, have a feeling Tom Bombadil is Tolkiens way to represent the concept of "Father Time" and his wife Goldberry of "Mother Nature"... Idk, kinda always made sense to me
Dorwinian is possible for Bladothien, but what about the remnants of Arnor? I believe Arthadein and Cardolin would be around Dale. Why Dale was a Lordship, not s kingdom at the time when Smaug attacked the first time. My favorite theory was that the Nameless Things happened between the Discord of Melkor and the Music of the Ainur. Hating both the song and the discord. I like the Theory also that Tom is the Avatar of Arda that wasn't marred by the felling of the 2 Lamps making Goldberry the avatar of water because Arda is both Earth and Water.
Sup dude got a question if you see this.when celebrimbor forged the rings with the s man what did he think that would do?what was the deception from sauron?
This is a good question. It's often believed that Sauron's deceptive gift was rings of power, but this is of course not true. The rings came later. Sauron's deception was his fair form and his gift of ring-lore; the knowledge with which he and Celebrimbor forged the rings of power. But this ring-lore was inherently evil, and any ring that was made with this knowledge was forever bound to Sauron and his one ring. I think Celebrimbor hoped to make powerful and beautiful jewellery (not unlike his grandfather's Silmarils), but due to Sauron's deception, everything he made was infected by Sauron's malice and bound to his ruling ring.
Hei. what about the rock/stone titans we see in the hobbit movie. What are they? No mysterious surrounding them? And thx for makeing the video, i realy enjoy them :D
So the stone titans in the Hobbit movie were made up by Peter Jackson, and there's nothing like them at all in the books. But there are a few references to mysterious giants, that mostly appear in the Hobbit book. However these giants are never seen and they're treated as more of a legend than a real race that definitely exists in Middle-earth. There's no mention of them in any part of the Silmarillion, and so I think either they're an older detail that Tolkien chose to discard as he formed the later Legendarium, or they're a story told by the inhabitants of Middle-earth but they aren't actually real.
Not knowing where or how a piece fits isn't the same as the piece not fitting. I prefer it when they leave some questions unanswered. Filling in all the blanks leaves little to the imagination.
When I first read The Lord of the Rings, I couldn't wait to get past the Tom Bombadil chapters and on with the rest of the story. I had later read that the character was named for a doll belonging to Tolkien's daughter and included so that she wouldn't feel left out of the story written for his sons, but I didn't feel that was justification enough. Anyway, I was wondering if it might be possible to combine the characters of Tom Bombadil and Radagast the Brown in an adaptation of the saga, or do there seem to be too many details that contradict for them to be the same person?
I believe Tom is the embodiment of the power of innocence wisdom and conviction, being stead fast in who and what you are, and not allowing the world to change who you are inside. Goldberry is the embodiment of selflessness, nurturing and servitude, not in a slave sense, but wanting to serve the one you love and care for. Strong man and woman dynamics and how we are different yet complimentary to one another.
So I saw an episode on Extra Credits about LOTR that points out one of the major themes in LOTR's is the passing of the torch from one generation to the next and it helped form a plausible answer to the question "why is Tom Bombadil included in the story?". Part of the passing of the torch, is the previous generation's desire to preserve elements of the world they hold dear, so they bestow gifts and wisdom to aid the next generation. But they also acknowledge there is unfinished business they are passing along as well, namely the ring. This all lines up with the trilogy (its been a long time since I have read them though so I may be forgetting something, but it sounds true). Given this theme, then Tom is kind of the opposite of Gandalf. In so much that while they both have much in common are kindly folk, Gandalf is motivated to resolve the issue of the ring, but Tom is indifferent. Gandalf and the Elves even seem a bit frustrated by this - in a polite sort of way of course. So this is why Tom's included, it's to show the party entering the sphere of someone capable that is indifferent and then moving on. It's all done very civilly and without causing offence but it appears had Tom the will to do so, he probably could have come along and helped out a lot more, but he just did not feel that he needed to. While his lack of ambition immunises him from the ring, it also seems to render him ignorant of his actual potential (though I seem to recall that he knows well enough he is quick witted). Tom's inaction also of makes the actions undertaken by Gandalf and the others shine all the brighter. His ancient and apparently unchanging nature also kind of represents some idealised version of what they are seeking to preserve and are leaving behind, to defend from Sauron and some of them at least, likely hope to return to when all is done (though Gandalf's probably been around the merry-go-round enough times to know better).
We love the innocence of children but cynical adults have to protect them from malignant forces. Tom is like the Lorax where he has some unique powers but not all powers.
I always though Tom/Goldberry was Tolkien and his wife Edith. He wrote the Hobbit during his syphillis stink in WW1 and I think he wanted a little bit of his world safe for him and Goldberry. It was before he had kids, so the Tom being Childless felt like a fear of his own future.
I always wondered in the nameless things under Khazad-dum were related to the dark things that slept beneath Erebor - "In placed deep where dark things sleep / in hollow halls beneath the fells."
Hot Damn! You have to love Tommy B and my mane damey Gggg Goldberry. Bladorthin = 1 of the 9...Numenoreans spoke Elvish in the days of Elros KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK MELLON!
the nameless things is the entropy of the universe itself. Gnawing at the roots of Arda to eventually devour it leading to Eru's new song. Also Tom being Eru makes a lot of sense, just not the full version of Eru. He's like Gandalf, "diminshed" that'd support the elves knowing to name him old-young and fatherless. An inate knowledge of Eru
The Nameless Things could be the echoes of the discordant notes Melchior sang into the Song of Creation at the beginning. That would indeed make them older.
The economics of Middle-earth are not something Tolkien went into much detail on, but contrary to popular belief, we know that Middle-earth is not a moneyless society. Gandalf rewarded Barliman Butterbur with a golden coin, and Sam paid 30 silver pennies for Bill the Pony. Also dwarves must definitely have a currency, as Azog the orc stuffed the mouth of Thror's severed head with a purse containing 'coins of little worth.' However, the main economy that we know about is the currency of Gondor. Tolkien tells us about a coin called a Castar that's used throughout Gondor (it's called a Mirian in Sindarin). And there's a smaller silver coin called a Tharni, that's worth one quarter of a Castar.
I would love to hear you speculate on tom’s potential relationship to the ents. Maybe there’s something there. We can’t ask Tolkien, so all we have are theories anyway
I personally like to see the nameless things and Tom as a juxtaposition. Tom is eru iluvitars first creation, his first attempt at life, a sort of concept sketch before he really had a clear picture of what he wanted. The nameless things are a result of morgoths hate and contempt in his disruptions of the song of the ainur. This also further demonstrates the dichotomy between morgoths corruption and iluvitars pure hearted creations. This explains why Tom is immune to corruption. He predates it.
I think of Tom Bombadil as likely a Maia that came into Arda with the Valar or very shortly thereafter. I think people get too caught up on him being called "oldest and fatherless" by men, elves and dwarves. We are looking at the situation from the outside. We are able to look at all of Tolkien's writings and "know the code". Beings in world would know Tom as a mysterious being at best (those who knew of him at all) and would likely only know that he seems to have been around as long as anyone can remember. Even the Wise during the Council of Elrond had almost forgotten him. Elrond says, "But I had forgotten Bombadil, if indeed this is still the same that walked the woods and hills long ago, and even then was older than the old." Tom himself tells the hobbits, "Eldest, that's what I am... Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn... He knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless - before the Dark Lord came from Outside." So he is clearly ancient but he doesn't give his exact origin.
Melkor interrupted Eru two times at first. On the third time, he continued composing, and declared that these Petty annoyances are also part of his grand song. So, perhaps, these enigmas and anomalies are leftover vestiges from the first two? Or, perhaps, they were self-created by the song in the end according to the Creator's will
I keep imagining Tolkien's thoughts in his last moments of life "Oh, now finaly figured it out. Now finaly decided what or who Bombadil is.... but there is no time anymore and I taking it with me to the grave. Anyway, I don't my fans will mind it, thogh."
Tom bombadil is a doomsday weapon..The music of the Ainur manifested in physical form..placed on Arda in the event Melkor's discoed is ever victorious..his physical form is confined to the old forest..once he leaves his form reverts.. pouring out music of the ainur over the land..wiping it clean to start anew.
I have always subscribed to the theory that Bladorthin was an elf and Dorwinion is one of the realms of the Avari. Past their awakening and refusal to go west, we know nothing about what happened to them and so I would love for this to be a way to include them past the deepest mythological history.
jess of the shire (youtube) solved the riddle. tom was one of the kids' toys. he was scary to one of tho younger children so Tolkien made up the story about "oh no, he's the happy old man of the forest, don't be afraid!" her video explains it far better than i can.
Rainbows are an enigma to me as they appear just when I need them to, so therefore you and your knowledge of Tolkien’s legendarium has come to us and answers the questions we all have, so might I be so bold as to assume that you may be Tom Bombadil?☺️🧐🌟
Also Tom backwords is Mot and Mot is the french word for well "word " as in many storys out of different religions the universe was made with a single word, in ancient language of Israel word and knowledge are seen as the same. You could say Tom means wisdom. The lord of the rings is like a lot of real life spiritual storys talking about the slowly leaving magic and the vanishing of nature and glee. The ancient times full of golden light stolen or corrupted to the point people forget all about it. Tom is the persona of the old ways, the witches dancing around the fire the golden forest full of magic the age of heroes the age of wisdom... light and dark spirits fighting, now the young people humans are left alone and the old teachers of good and evil are fading, magic replaced with science. No longer light or darkness the grey age is coming. That was a strong part of tolkiens mindset. Tom is probably the spirit of nature and freedom the one dancing in moonlight like the wise people of old storys. Tolkien safed some of the feelings in his books to share with the children of the future. So the past would not die. A little faith in magic and fantasy was safe today we are the children and his wisdom still matters. Tom is nature. To make it simple. I do not know why. But i believe this is tolkiens idea. Tom is the old wisdom. Tom Riddle by the way is a name way older then harry potter and was not always seen as evil. The crow song and many other tales of celtic times talk about a funny guy called tom that was also just called the riddle he was known to teach and be full of wisdom acting like a child and never getting old while beeing older then every human. He was the inspiration for many tales of good witches and wizards protecting nature and the partner of numa or nimueh. Tolkien loved ancient fairytales and king arthurs oundtable has actualy the town " Orckenstein " home of so called Orcks they did inspire the orcs nimueh was later called the lady of the lake and her partner merlin the wise. As Goldberry is also connected with water like nimueh we see the inspiration. Merlin was called a blue wizard the blue wizards used to fight against sauron some got corrupted some vanished. I used to believe tom might be one of them. Of course in the old legends Nimueh is not the same as morgan le fay the enemy of merlin nimueh is seen as the one that loves nature and life water and the ocean. She is seen as similar to numaeh from the annunaki myth and Tom is also seen as Enki the god of water. Some storys tell they created humans. Also South Sudan has an instrument called Tom that can summon rain. The story says a gift from the god of riddles. So we can see Tolkien probably made his Version be the spirit of nature the old gods and the teacher just like the inspiration with the same name.
There are some other mysteries in Middle Earth that I'd love to see addressed. Such as the story of Amroth and Nimrodel. Who was Amroth? Was he the son of Celeborn and Galadriel, or of Amdir? Tolkien played with both ideas. Why did Amroth forsake his people and responsibilities? Was it great love for Nimrodel, or supreme selfishness and cowardice? If these two lovers were so attached to each other, how did they become separated, with Amroth reaching the south havens alone? What happened to Nimrodel? How was it known that Amroth drowned at sea, when the only people who saw him go into the water were on the ship heading west, never coming back to Middle Earth? That is a story so full of holes, it makes Swiss cheese look solid 😆. But, it's compelling...
Perhaps Tom Bombadil is Daeron who was a Sindarin elf of Doriath and King Thingol's loremaster and minstrel. He is not affected by the one ring because his great and undying (and unrequited) love of Luthien is greater. Power is (maybe) the last thing he wants??
I see Tom Bombadil as the embodiment of the "Spirit of Freedom". The ring has no power over him because its purpose is to enslave, but, Freedom can't by its nature be enslaved. I think this is why it is said during the council of Elrond that He would fall last just as he was first. This also fits into the idea of him likely forgetting about the ring where upon it would eventually again seek to return. Freedom tends to focus on the present, future, and near future rather than the strategic far future. When the concept of Freedom is irradiated so then would its personification- Tom Bombadil.
I always looked at it as Tom Bombadil and Goldberry River-Daughter being little splinters of Eru Iluvatar, attached to Arda as it formed, as a way for Eru to personally experience his creation in the same manner as the beings who would inhabit it. Tom and Goldberry are not there to act as or for Eru,, simply to experience the world for Eru. As such, none of the corrupting influences of Arda could affect them. They are incorruptible, just as Eru is incorruptible. I mean, if they became corrupted, they would not serve their purpose of letting Eru experience his creation in the manner that its inhabitants did. Think of their corruption as Eru's surveillance cameras going out and not showing the scene... if you look at it like that, then how Tom and Goldberry act is totally in character with their purpose in Eru's creation.
So if Lord of the Rings is ultimately the story of the death of magic in the world, I think Tom Bombadil exists in the story as this little hint that even if the power of the ring and elven magic dies, there’s a bit of magic still left in the world even if it is difficult to find and even more difficult to understand. Tom’s basically there as a sort of consolation or to basically say “cheer up, there’s still a bit of mystery and a bit of magic left”
It's the mark of a good storyteller that his audience is still talking about his story over a century since it's first inception.
They will for centuries to come
🌈 Hey there Rainbow Dave, he’s a merry fellow; Hair and beard of red, and his voice is mellow... 🎼
This is awesome!!!
Interesting exploration of Bombadil and Goldberry. Although they are sort of oddities in Tolkien's universe of otherwise deeply interconnected characters, I felt they were sort of avatars of nature, with Tom being wood and Goldberry water. I imagined Tom and Goldberry sort of popping up organically shortly after Middle Earth was formed, and then one day they met, representing the connection between water and growing things. That seemed satisfactory to me.
This is my very humble personal thought on Tom Bombadil. I have always thought of him as Santa Claus. A symbol of goodness that is above the influence of the negative effects of evil. He's an enigma with just a hint of a history that can make him almost realistic. A passive force for good and a light hearted spirit. A jolly old soul. That's just my belief.
I thought it was santa on the thumbnail
Hum..... interesting thought
I really like the theory of Bladorthin being a king of Dorwinion. Great vid, thank you!
this is the best tolkien lore channell by far. your interpretation of Tom Bombadil is the most insightful and accurate I have ever found. I've always interpreted him as a purer form of an hobbit, kinda of an archetype of what an happy man should look like in tolkien's mind, just content with the little that he has, living a secluded life from society, in harmony with nature and the woman he loves. Nothing more, nothing less. Afterall, you can't deny that Tom has many similiraties with the hobbits. first, he's jolly, he sings all the time, he likes food and lives a life that's separated from the rest of the world just as the hobbits did for their entire history before Bilbo. Also the point in lotr where he's introduced is quite fitting. at the beginning, where the story has just started but has yet to reveal anything that matters for middle earth.
He's a carachther of lotr, but in the end he's completely irrelevant to the plot (to the point that in the movie like in the cartoon he's simply cut off). He's just out of time, like in a fable (which lotr is definetely not). That's why I find your idea as him as nothing more than a cameo extremely on point. If he has something in common with god, like many people suggested, it's just the fact that he's happy, and reminds a bit of Adam and Eve from christian mithology, representing human kind before the corruption coming from the desire to know. And indeed Tom really doesn't want to know, he doesn't care for the ring nor for anything of middle earth. He's out of time and out of space. All he cares is living his life with Goldberry. Hence his irrelevant role in the the narration.
Really good points! I definitely think you're right about Tom's closeness (both geographically and thematically) to Hobbits. If he lived in an elven wood or within the borders of Gondor it would seem very different, but he doesn't. He simply dwells in the Old Forest between the Shire and the true wilds. He even seems very hobbitish in his mannerisms and personality. I don't think Tom could exist in a world without Hobbits. (Although obviously he's been around in Middle-earth way longer than them).
tom tom bombadil is living the best life. he's a lucky tombom. i want to live exactly as he does.
I like the theory that Tom Bombadil, the nameless things, and Ungoliant were all unintentional byproducts of the music of the Ainur. They did not realize what they were creating when they were singing until Eru Illuvatar revealed it to them, so it stands to reason that there may have been some phenomena, both good and bad, that came about from little details in the music, and only Illuvatar himself was aware of from the beginning.
well, in one version of the story (or so I heard) Tolkein's description of the creation of Arda mentions that certain "things" that aren't really part of Arda crept in. Which would explain how tom is unaffected by the ring. Maybe It only works on beings from Arda. I kinda suspect Ungoliant is also one.
but is this considered canon now? Hard to say.... :/
I like this theory as well, also, to me Bombadil is the Music it self or at least a Spawn of Music, he doesn't take sides and it seems he knows all the hacks (with is music) to "correct" things with Music and in Tolkien's Legendarium Music is the most important of all things, it's creation it self
@@Agreus93 mmm yeah, Bombadil is the epitome of the guy who's special in a way that's... special.
I like the idea that both, bombadil ans ungoliant are positive and negative aspects of "primordial silence" in relation to the song of the ainur. - Since silence can both heal and soothe but also terrify.
Yea I feel like this is close to the truth of it. Tom Bombadil and Ungoliant feel like two sides of a coin in a lot of ways.
Many have pointed out, the Moria sequence contains a lot of "cosmic horror". This is a trademark of the American author HP Lovecraft. Some have inferred a direct influence.
Actually there is another author whom Lovecraft himself acknowledged as an influence, and whose works might have reached young Tolkien: the British fantasy writer William Hope Hodgson who was killed in the First World War, aged 41, in 1918.
In Hodgson's 1907 novel, 'The Boats of the Glen Carrig' he describes squid-like tentacled things. Another novel, 'The Night Land' (1912) supplies the name of the Watchers (they are giant mountain-like things). Meanwhile 'The House on the Borderland' (1908) includes the device of the narrator who (as Brian Aldiss put it in 'Billion Year Spree') "continues desperately scribbling his journal until the very moment that he goes insane or his head is bitten off by the hidden menace."
From 'The Night Land':
"Before me ran The Road Where The Silent Ones Walk; and I searched it, as many a time in my earlier youth had I, with the spy-glass; for my heart was always stirred mightily by the sight of those Silent Ones. And presently, alone in all the miles of that night-grey road, I saw one in the field of my glass - a quiet, cloaked figure, moving along, shrouded, and looking neither to right nor left"
If only the doors of Durin opened under a “waning-gibbous moon” 😂
Very cool Video! To Bombadil, my own headcanon would be that Bombadil is just Tolkien himself put into his story! That would be an interesting concept!
That last Tolkien quote I often feel like is at the core of what really makes his stories so compelling and why you might spend hours days or even years of your life even if just in some quiet part of the back of your mind, mulling over and wondering about the origins of these enigmatic beings and characters. He truly understood that a great story doesn't just leave you satisfied, when your given an answer sometimes it leads to 2 more questions and I think that's inherently beautiful and he understood it better than most.
Of course rainbow Dave hits the nail on the head as always. Imagine what we would have lost had everything been perfectly explained and wrapped up with a little bow. My first favorite myth in the legendarium was Ungoliant because here by the power of this previously unknown creature will the light of the trees be cast down, will our big bad grow to fear her himself. it's the little "pieces that don't fit" as Dave put it that I feel like hold my mind the longest. Phenomenal work as always.
Hell come t think of it, I'd read a whole book just on Ungoliant before and after the piece we do get in the Silmarillion. Well as long as the after isn't just giant spider erotic fiction lol....
In The History of Middle-Earth, specifically in Morgoth's Ring, we learn that creatures were created during the Ainulindale, not out of any of the themes, but out of the discord between them and that they neither serve Morgoth nor Iluvatar and there's a theory that they are the nameless things
This is easily my favourite channel right now, and by far the best Tolkien channel I've ever seen. Amazing work, keep it up!
Ending with “I don’t know” makes these Universe nuggets even more wonderful. Thank you for all you do.
You and the dorklords (only 1.5k) subs are some of the best channels on this stuff. I'll always watch, thank you for your effort on this (the best tom video in youtube)
Thank you very much. I'm really glad you enjoy the video!
Evil can’t create, and only Eru can create sentient life…the idea of the nameless things being the result of Melkor trying to truly create real life and massively and disastrously biting off more than he can chew is *fascinating*
A much prefer them being entirely separate form any of the Valar, like Ungoliant likely is. It adds to their mystery and their danger
The Nameless Things would fit perfectly in a H.P. Lovecraft story.
I'd be surprised if Tolkien ever read any Lovecraft - although it is certainly possible he was aware of Lovecrafts work.
Possible, but doubtful.
Still, I think the Nameless Things were intended to be their own separate horrors apart from Morgoth and the rest of Tolkiens mythology.
As I think was the case with Tom Bombadil, Tolkien had the idea readily at hand while he was writing- but unlike his other ideas, they feel slightly patched in and not an outgrowth from Middle Earth and what inspired it.
I've read the entire trilogy, back to back, 4 or 5 times, and Tom struck me from the beginning to be a force of nature more than an actual person- more akin to an Ent than a human.
Tom was a sort of wood spirit, and Goldberry was a type of river spirit.
" elves love to talk about dead elves, it's like their favorite thing to do "
Sitting here laughing at that line, and a great example of how unique your content is. I feel like I'm taking a college course on Tolkien from a GREAT professor.
Facinating! Your expertise on the topic surpasses all that of other authors. I have watched each video a few times and find it difficult even to remember all those names! On totally unrealated issues, I wonder if you could make a video about how Tolkien wrote his books. He basically created a world where none had existed before, from scratch. How did he keep track of all the details like names, dates etc?
I think Tom is the personification of Tolkien in the story. He is the author of the tale. The all powerful being that only exist between the front and back cover. Within the book there are forces greater than him, in the end he can choose close the book. Or he is the reader. The reader also has the power to close the book, but the words exist without them being read.
I had a similar thought not long ago. Tom lives the life that perhaps Tolkien would have preferred above all; peaceful, pastoral, without strife, without worry, without responsibility.
I think you got the point Tolkien was talking about, as we should not take Tom Bombadil too serious.
I wonder if the discord Melkor created in the music, which was performed in the void, could have somehow agitated an otherwise benign force (the void) into manifesting as such nameless creatures. Which then accidentally became entangled within Arda, simply by proximity to its creation. That could explain why they seem to try to hide away from the rest of Arda itself, almost like they can sense their own alienness to the world and hate the life they never asked for in a world they were never built for.
Let's face it.
Arda is set in Lovecraft verse. Eru is just a nickname of Blind Mad God and this whole symphony myth is Valar way of coping with that one time when Azathoth started to carry a tune, accidentally creating a world while humming.
This whole world is just a sheet of consistent reality thrown over a small region of primeval chaos by the Mad One for its own entertainment.
The nameless creatures... well. They were there before and some just got inside of literal reality bubble out of curiosity.
I was thinking the nameless things are void creatures as well that got caught up in the creation of Arda. And since it's a material world they took forms to exist there
Makes me think of the "Pokémon" that originated out in Ultra Space
All of your videos are great Dave, please keep them coming! Also enjoy your reddit posts.
Can't wait for the next video!
I think Tom Bombadil is the uncurruptable embodiment of kindness, and is the purest form of free will among the nature of Middle Earth that all other good souls should aspire to be like; a beacon of hope that there is "still good in this World that is worth fighting for" as Sam nicely puts it.
I feel like Tom Bombadil wouldn't even understand why the ring needed to be destroyed.
Not because he wanted it, but because he wanted it so little.
He is and always be. I’m super high and this is the best Tolkien I’ve ever seen. I love this channel. You are awesome Rainbow Dave!!
Nice work dude
I like your theories.
As for Tom Bombadil I like o think he might be a personification or a humanoid extension of Middle Earth itself. It is often said that nature or certain natural things seem to have a character of their own. For example Caradhras semms to be fighting the "invaders." It would also explain why Treebeard is the oldest living creature to walk the earth - because either Tom is not a living creature or not walking the earth. Tom also uses song - the thing Arda is made from - to control / influence the things around him.
It would also explain why the ring has no power over him, it corrupts people, not nature (even though nature can be bend to its will) and is also explain why if all else fails Tom would fall. Goldberry could then be an afterthought as he found her some day by the water.
I know it has holes in it, but I like that idea and any idea is as good as another if there is no real answer :D
Great stories and theories, really enjoyed. Would fully agree that "Nameless things" are something similar to Ungoliant. Tom Bombadil - i would simply accept Mayar explain, someone with great defensive / healing / uncorrupted powers. Maybe one of the blue wizards? Possible but doubtful. Someone, like Radagast, but more "stable". In general, you've pointed it out at the end - the LOTR has been influenced by WWII flows and events, hence Tom Bombadil is one of self defensife players, who can resist, but not for very long.
I believe the theory that Tom Bombadil is the manifestation of the music of the Ainur. Think about it: In Finnish mythology singing has powers that changes reality, and Tom Bombadil is a singer. He "knows his song" (old man willow), and he has dominion over reality. He is summoned by song despite being miles away, likely. He is the music of the Ainur, in some sense.
yeah, my guess is he's part of the song of Eru, but... a weird splinter fragment. Also, he wasn't really meant to be part of Arda, but... entered anyways.
i like to think that the nameless things are the embodiment of the discord of melkor during the music of the ainur
Great video. Tom Bombadil was incorruptible, hence he could play the One Ring with impunity. I agree with your hypothesis that Tom was a peaceful being and that’s that enigma.
That's how I always understood Tom's ability to withstand the Ring, simply put it had nothing to offer him, and as such he found no reason to desire it. Yet I feel he was wise enough to understand its power, knowing that it could not stay there.
I would love to hear your take on Kalevala's influence on Tolkien. Esp the parallels between Vainamoinen and Tom Bombadil.
Agree with you. I have always thought of Bombadil as a sort of Poltergeist, a manifestation of Arda's nature. That is why he is as old as the world. He is strong yet passive. His scope is as wide as the planet but he is diminished when nature is destroyed and would not survive the destruction of the biotope because .... he is the biotope.
Knowing the value Tolkien puts into nature/trees and pacifism, that all makes sense that this character, wholesome and fragile, would hold this special place.
By reading the comments that said that the nameless things could have been create at the same times as the song of creation, as pure evil and terrifying creature, maybe Tom Bombadill was created as a pure and good creature to balance those nameless things! That is indeed just speculation. i just recently fall into the rabbit hole of Tolkien lore with your channel. A few months ago I didn't even know what the silmarillions was about and who was Eru Illuvatar! Thanks to you, i learned a lot on one of the greatest fiction ever created!
The One Ring holding no power over Tom is such a wonderful detail.
Tom and Goldberry always reminded me of fairies from Irish folklore and they were Tolkien’s way of playing around with that lore in his writing.
Love your content, Superb. I do try to argue with your logic but find it quite hard ! The history of any world , ours or fiction, is predominantly written by the Victor's
I’ve always seen Bombadil as a manifestation of something bigger. Because of his elven name, the fact that he will literally forget about the ring, his complete lack of « ambition ». I’ve always seen him as the symbol of nature regrowth. Timeless and yet always young. Without objective, without ambition, just carrying on.
But I do love your take on the symbol of pacifism an more largely « just carry on with your simple life ». Not corrupted by power BUT we still need people willing to « take responsibility ». I think it makes perfect sense. Especially with Tolkien comments and his history.
Fantastic visions and analytics recit about the enigmatic mr tom bombadil the strange and mysterious personnage created by mr J.R.R TOLKIEN. thanks.
i really love your video and approach of Tolkien lores. I do have a theory on Tom Bombadil. After the destruction of Melkor, Yavanna told Manwe she wanted to create some protection for nature. The kelvar could run away, but the olvar (plants and trees) could not.She said : when the children are born, then Yavanna's spirit will also awaken. She will invoke distant powers who will come to mingle with the olvar and the kelvar and some will remain there who will be respected and whose just anger will be feared. This for a time; as long as the firstborn retain their power and those who follow them remain young. I always felt Tom is one of them.
Regarding Tom Bombadil, what Gandalf says of him is disproven by what actually happened with the Hobbits. Frodo was amazed to find that he willingly and easily gave Tom the ring when Tom asked for it so that shows that Tom can somewhat break the Ring's power over others. And Tom can make the Ring disappear so that means he has some form of control over the ring itself.
I always think of Tom bumbledill as the interloper. The guy who is observing the history of middle Earth from the outside. The interloper from somewhere else. Maybe even the embodiment of the reader. After all to a linguist such as the author the reader is an integral part of the story. So why not actually give the reader a part in the story itself. Even if it is a part in passing.
Bladorthin is one of the Nazgûl; Tom Bombadil is a genius loci, along with Goldberry.
There you go.
I'd argue that the greatest enigma is: Were was Gondor when the Westfold fell?!
Jk, LOVE your videos
Hahaha I should make a video about †hat!
Great job in showing a HP Lovecraft monster at the end of your part about the Nameless Things , since they are very much like something he would have created.
I was thinking about how tied Ungoliant is to the concept of hunger and gluttony and how that's not really a spider trait. It reminded me more of ticks which gorge themselves on blood inflating to many times their original size and it's super creepy to see first hand. But THEN, I remembered that ticks are arachnids too! Perhaps Tolkien was quite disturbed by the sight or idea of swollen ticks and tbh same they are very upsetting just to think about! 😱
Love your videos. I think your knowledge of the legendarium is amazing. Do u have a video of the fall of gondolin posted yet
Thanks! Not yet, but I'm working through the first age chronologically, so I'll do a whole playlist on Gondolin in the relatively near future.
I like to think that Tom is the "Music" made manifest and allowed to coexists as a symbol of what was meant to be instead of what was made thanks to Melkor's chaos. I think Tom is a physical manifestation of what the Music was meant to create, and a reminder of what happens when ill intent begets purposed design.
Such an awesome thing that there are corners of the Legendarium that even Tolkien didn't explore.
We know something else about Tom Bombadil, that he actively helped the heroes of the story accomplish their goals. First by rescuing the 4 hobbits from Old Willow, than again in the Barrow Downs, culminating with his gift to them of the 4 daggers, 1 of which was used to ultimately slay the Witch King of Angmar. These sort of interventions, quite subtle in their own way yet with incredibly long term consequences are precisely the way Eru Iluvatar intervened in the lives of his creations. So at the very least we know he was acting as an agent of Eru Iluvatar during those times.
I don't like the way you dismissed the theory that Tom Bombadil is Eru Iluvatar himself. Yes, he Tom Bombadil didn't show us anything to suggest he's as powerful as Eru Iluvatar, however just as the Istari were sent to middle earth with significantly less power than they actually had as Maiar, so could Eru Iluvatar create his earthly form with only a fraction of his overall power and with a very specific objective. The letter you quoted of Tolkien can be read literally, as a flat out no. However it could also be read in 'some mysteries don't need to be solved' manner, making it much more of a non answer than a flat out no. Moreover is an earthly manifestation of Eru Iluvatar without his full godly power actually the equivalent of god?
Another similar theory in this vein is that Tom Bombadil is the manifestation of Tolkien himself in his own story. In both cases, Eru Iluvatar or Tolkien, Tom Bombadil would be a character of immense power, but also of overwhelming restrictions on said power. After all both Eru Iluvatar and Tolkien valued the free will of their creations above all else, which means that their level of interference in their creations' business had to be as minimal as possible. Which is why Eru Iluvatar intervened so few times in the story, and only when the likelihood of his children being dominated by the Ainur was all but certain. This would both explains Tom's immense power, his assistance to the 4 hobbits which turned out to be incredibly important down the line and of course his attitude towards the ring.
The biggest downside here are the references to him in the Council of Elrond, but even those are still explainable by the fact that the characters themselves didn't have complete knowledge of who Tom was, not even Gandalf, or that perhaps Eru(or Tolkien) gave them false information on purpose in order for them to have reached the conclusions that they did as to not force Tom Bombadil to play a larger role in the story.
Great job
Love your stuff 🥰 Dorwinion shows to be unexpectedly compelling. Actually the lands east of the sea of Rhûn are considered to be "the" East and realm of men of darkness, while I think Dorwinion, as it is bordering the old kingdom of Rhovanion, may culturally and geographically still belong to the middle men. House Hador and House Beor dwelt on opposing sides of the Sea of Rhûn for a time as they migrated away from the shadow in the East. Wonder if the Dorwinians realised that they returned to some of their ancestor's homes...
… or maybe they never left, which would make Dorwinion older than just about any other Mannish settlement or kingdom… older than anything in Beleriand, vastly older than Númenor and downright archaic in comparison with Gondor and Arnor. Lots of time for King of the Thin Bladder to have existed alongside the also ancient dwarves of the eastern lands. Which means… very old vines indeed.
Bombadil is Tolkien. He made the world and was the only one there "before time"
Wonderfully narrated as always.
Perhaps Tom was an emissary of Eru, afterall Gandalf did stay with Tom for 2 years after the war. Or maybe he reported to an Ainur still in heaven. Which one? Who knows and Tolkien was right to keep unexplained mysteries in the Legendarium.
Life would be boring and mundane if everything had an explanation and was wrapped in a bow tie. 🎀
Tom Bombadil reminds me a kind of a playful Leprauchan or Puck character that shows up in English folklore.
There is another fictional world that I'm a big fan of - it's The Dresden Files by Jim Butcher. In his world, there is a concept he calls "intellectus." This is where the magical energy of a region is so potent that it becomes sentient in its own right, and can manifest physically at times. This is how I interpret Tom. I think he and Goldberry just "arose from the Flame Imperishable" when Arda was first sung into existence. Or, maybe even before.
I think your last words on Tom are spot on.
I, for some reason, have a feeling Tom Bombadil is Tolkiens way to represent the concept of "Father Time" and his wife Goldberry of "Mother Nature"...
Idk, kinda always made sense to me
I like this idea.
Tolkien: Keeps track of 50,000 years of details.
Also Tolkien: Throws in some mysterious details to give 'em something to think about.
Dorwinian is possible for Bladothien, but what about the remnants of Arnor? I believe Arthadein and Cardolin would be around Dale. Why Dale was a Lordship, not s kingdom at the time when Smaug attacked the first time. My favorite theory was that the Nameless Things happened between the Discord of Melkor and the Music of the Ainur. Hating both the song and the discord. I like the Theory also that Tom is the Avatar of Arda that wasn't marred by the felling of the 2 Lamps making Goldberry the avatar of water because Arda is both Earth and Water.
lol When Bombadil does a magic trick with the ring and Frodo freaks out!🤣
Sup dude got a question if you see this.when celebrimbor forged the rings with the s man what did he think that would do?what was the deception from sauron?
This is a good question. It's often believed that Sauron's deceptive gift was rings of power, but this is of course not true. The rings came later. Sauron's deception was his fair form and his gift of ring-lore; the knowledge with which he and Celebrimbor forged the rings of power. But this ring-lore was inherently evil, and any ring that was made with this knowledge was forever bound to Sauron and his one ring. I think Celebrimbor hoped to make powerful and beautiful jewellery (not unlike his grandfather's Silmarils), but due to Sauron's deception, everything he made was infected by Sauron's malice and bound to his ruling ring.
Hei. what about the rock/stone titans we see in the hobbit movie. What are they? No mysterious surrounding them? And thx for makeing the video, i realy enjoy them :D
So the stone titans in the Hobbit movie were made up by Peter Jackson, and there's nothing like them at all in the books. But there are a few references to mysterious giants, that mostly appear in the Hobbit book. However these giants are never seen and they're treated as more of a legend than a real race that definitely exists in Middle-earth. There's no mention of them in any part of the Silmarillion, and so I think either they're an older detail that Tolkien chose to discard as he formed the later Legendarium, or they're a story told by the inhabitants of Middle-earth but they aren't actually real.
@@tolkienuntangled Ok, thaks. kinda disapointing tho, but the hobbit move kinda was, so.
Not knowing where or how a piece fits isn't the same as the piece not fitting. I prefer it when they leave some questions unanswered. Filling in all the blanks leaves little to the imagination.
When I first read The Lord of the Rings, I couldn't wait to get past the Tom Bombadil chapters and on with the rest of the story. I had later read that the character was named for a doll belonging to Tolkien's daughter and included so that she wouldn't feel left out of the story written for his sons, but I didn't feel that was justification enough.
Anyway, I was wondering if it might be possible to combine the characters of Tom Bombadil and Radagast the Brown in an adaptation of the saga, or do there seem to be too many details that contradict for them to be the same person?
I believe Tom is the embodiment of the power of innocence wisdom and conviction, being stead fast in who and what you are, and not allowing the world to change who you are inside. Goldberry is the embodiment of selflessness, nurturing and servitude, not in a slave sense, but wanting to serve the one you love and care for. Strong man and woman dynamics and how we are different yet complimentary to one another.
Tom is the embodiment of joy and living life.
I have many questions about Middle Earth and its inhabitants myself. These are merely three of them :)
Thanks again
So I saw an episode on Extra Credits about LOTR that points out one of the major themes in LOTR's is the passing of the torch from one generation to the next and it helped form a plausible answer to the question "why is Tom Bombadil included in the story?".
Part of the passing of the torch, is the previous generation's desire to preserve elements of the world they hold dear, so they bestow gifts and wisdom to aid the next generation. But they also acknowledge there is unfinished business they are passing along as well, namely the ring.
This all lines up with the trilogy (its been a long time since I have read them though so I may be forgetting something, but it sounds true).
Given this theme, then Tom is kind of the opposite of Gandalf. In so much that while they both have much in common are kindly folk, Gandalf is motivated to resolve the issue of the ring, but Tom is indifferent. Gandalf and the Elves even seem a bit frustrated by this - in a polite sort of way of course.
So this is why Tom's included, it's to show the party entering the sphere of someone capable that is indifferent and then moving on. It's all done very civilly and without causing offence but it appears had Tom the will to do so, he probably could have come along and helped out a lot more, but he just did not feel that he needed to.
While his lack of ambition immunises him from the ring, it also seems to render him ignorant of his actual potential (though I seem to recall that he knows well enough he is quick witted). Tom's inaction also of makes the actions undertaken by Gandalf and the others shine all the brighter. His ancient and apparently unchanging nature also kind of represents some idealised version of what they are seeking to preserve and are leaving behind, to defend from Sauron and some of them at least, likely hope to return to when all is done (though Gandalf's probably been around the merry-go-round enough times to know better).
We love the innocence of children but cynical adults have to protect them from malignant forces.
Tom is like the Lorax where he has some unique powers but not all powers.
Yeah I think that's very true. Well said!
@@tolkienuntangled love your channel!
I always though Tom/Goldberry was Tolkien and his wife Edith. He wrote the Hobbit during his syphillis stink in WW1 and I think he wanted a little bit of his world safe for him and Goldberry. It was before he had kids, so the Tom being Childless felt like a fear of his own future.
Beren and luthien
Tom is a nameless thing confirmed
Wow! You know Tolkein!
I always wondered in the nameless things under Khazad-dum were related to the dark things that slept beneath Erebor - "In placed deep where dark things sleep / in hollow halls beneath the fells."
Hot Damn! You have to love Tommy B and my mane damey Gggg Goldberry. Bladorthin = 1 of the 9...Numenoreans spoke Elvish in the days of Elros
KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK MELLON!
the nameless things is the entropy of the universe itself. Gnawing at the roots of Arda to eventually devour it leading to Eru's new song.
Also Tom being Eru makes a lot of sense, just not the full version of Eru. He's like Gandalf, "diminshed" that'd support the elves knowing to name him old-young and fatherless. An inate knowledge of Eru
The Nameless Things could be the echoes of the discordant notes Melchior sang into the Song of Creation at the beginning. That would indeed make them older.
Hey this made me think I haven't really heard or read much about currency or how much things cost. Is that something you know about?
The economics of Middle-earth are not something Tolkien went into much detail on, but contrary to popular belief, we know that Middle-earth is not a moneyless society. Gandalf rewarded Barliman Butterbur with a golden coin, and Sam paid 30 silver pennies for Bill the Pony. Also dwarves must definitely have a currency, as Azog the orc stuffed the mouth of Thror's severed head with a purse containing 'coins of little worth.'
However, the main economy that we know about is the currency of Gondor. Tolkien tells us about a coin called a Castar that's used throughout Gondor (it's called a Mirian in Sindarin). And there's a smaller silver coin called a Tharni, that's worth one quarter of a Castar.
Great video
I would love to hear you speculate on tom’s potential relationship to the ents. Maybe there’s something there. We can’t ask Tolkien, so all we have are theories anyway
13:04 the art is making me think of sandworms lol that's a completely different set of books.
I personally like to see the nameless things and Tom as a juxtaposition. Tom is eru iluvitars first creation, his first attempt at life, a sort of concept sketch before he really had a clear picture of what he wanted. The nameless things are a result of morgoths hate and contempt in his disruptions of the song of the ainur. This also further demonstrates the dichotomy between morgoths corruption and iluvitars pure hearted creations. This explains why Tom is immune to corruption. He predates it.
The nameless things, like ungoliant, are probably primordials that existed before Eru even created Ëa, a sort of lovecraftian beings.
Not only did he create the lord of the rings and it’s accompanying universe he started it while in the trenches
I wonder if Tom Bombadil might be inspired in some part by the pagan 'Green Man of the Forest' of olde England?
I think of Tom Bombadil as likely a Maia that came into Arda with the Valar or very shortly thereafter. I think people get too caught up on him being called "oldest and fatherless" by men, elves and dwarves. We are looking at the situation from the outside. We are able to look at all of Tolkien's writings and "know the code". Beings in world would know Tom as a mysterious being at best (those who knew of him at all) and would likely only know that he seems to have been around as long as anyone can remember. Even the Wise during the Council of Elrond had almost forgotten him. Elrond says, "But I had forgotten Bombadil, if indeed this is still the same that walked the woods and hills long ago, and even then was older than the old." Tom himself tells the hobbits, "Eldest, that's what I am... Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn... He knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless - before the Dark Lord came from Outside." So he is clearly ancient but he doesn't give his exact origin.
Melkor interrupted Eru two times at first. On the third time, he continued composing, and declared that these Petty annoyances are also part of his grand song. So, perhaps, these enigmas and anomalies are leftover vestiges from the first two? Or, perhaps, they were self-created by the song in the end according to the Creator's will
I keep imagining Tolkien's thoughts in his last moments of life "Oh, now finaly figured it out. Now finaly decided what or who Bombadil is.... but there is no time anymore and I taking it with me to the grave. Anyway, I don't my fans will mind it, thogh."
Tom bombadil is a doomsday weapon..The music of the Ainur manifested in physical form..placed on Arda in the event Melkor's discoed is ever victorious..his physical form is confined to the old forest..once he leaves his form reverts.. pouring out music of the ainur over the land..wiping it clean to start anew.
I think Tom and Goldberry are the living manifestation of the thoughts of Eru, from the Music
But🤷♀️💙💙
I have always subscribed to the theory that Bladorthin was an elf and Dorwinion is one of the realms of the Avari. Past their awakening and refusal to go west, we know nothing about what happened to them and so I would love for this to be a way to include them past the deepest mythological history.
jess of the shire (youtube) solved the riddle. tom was one of the kids' toys. he was scary to one of tho younger children so Tolkien made up the story about "oh no, he's the happy old man of the forest, don't be afraid!" her video explains it far better than i can.
Rainbows are an enigma to me as they appear just when I need them to, so therefore you and your knowledge of Tolkien’s legendarium has come to us and answers the questions we all have, so might I be so bold as to assume that you may be Tom Bombadil?☺️🧐🌟
Also Tom backwords is Mot and Mot is the french word for well "word " as in many storys out of different religions the universe was made with a single word, in ancient language of Israel word and knowledge are seen as the same. You could say Tom means wisdom. The lord of the rings is like a lot of real life spiritual storys talking about the slowly leaving magic and the vanishing of nature and glee. The ancient times full of golden light stolen or corrupted to the point people forget all about it. Tom is the persona of the old ways, the witches dancing around the fire the golden forest full of magic the age of heroes the age of wisdom... light and dark spirits fighting, now the young people humans are left alone and the old teachers of good and evil are fading, magic replaced with science. No longer light or darkness the grey age is coming. That was a strong part of tolkiens mindset. Tom is probably the spirit of nature and freedom the one dancing in moonlight like the wise people of old storys. Tolkien safed some of the feelings in his books to share with the children of the future. So the past would not die. A little faith in magic and fantasy was safe today we are the children and his wisdom still matters. Tom is nature. To make it simple. I do not know why. But i believe this is tolkiens idea. Tom is the old wisdom. Tom Riddle by the way is a name way older then harry potter and was not always seen as evil. The crow song and many other tales of celtic times talk about a funny guy called tom that was also just called the riddle he was known to teach and be full of wisdom acting like a child and never getting old while beeing older then every human. He was the inspiration for many tales of good witches and wizards protecting nature and the partner of numa or nimueh. Tolkien loved ancient fairytales and king arthurs oundtable has actualy the town " Orckenstein " home of so called Orcks they did inspire the orcs nimueh was later called the lady of the lake and her partner merlin the wise. As Goldberry is also connected with water like nimueh we see the inspiration. Merlin was called a blue wizard the blue wizards used to fight against sauron some got corrupted some vanished. I used to believe tom might be one of them. Of course in the old legends Nimueh is not the same as morgan le fay the enemy of merlin nimueh is seen as the one that loves nature and life water and the ocean. She is seen as similar to numaeh from the annunaki myth and Tom is also seen as Enki the god of water. Some storys tell they created humans. Also South Sudan has an instrument called Tom that can summon rain. The story says a gift from the god of riddles. So we can see Tolkien probably made his Version be the spirit of nature the old gods and the teacher just like the inspiration with the same name.
There are some other mysteries in Middle Earth that I'd love to see addressed. Such as the story of Amroth and Nimrodel. Who was Amroth? Was he the son of Celeborn and Galadriel, or of Amdir? Tolkien played with both ideas. Why did Amroth forsake his people and responsibilities? Was it great love for Nimrodel, or supreme selfishness and cowardice? If these two lovers were so attached to each other, how did they become separated, with Amroth reaching the south havens alone? What happened to Nimrodel? How was it known that Amroth drowned at sea, when the only people who saw him go into the water were on the ship heading west, never coming back to Middle Earth? That is a story so full of holes, it makes Swiss cheese look solid 😆. But, it's compelling...
Perhaps Tom Bombadil is Daeron who was a Sindarin elf of Doriath and King Thingol's loremaster and minstrel. He is not affected by the one ring because his great and undying (and unrequited) love of Luthien is greater. Power is (maybe) the last thing he wants??
I see Tom Bombadil as the embodiment of the "Spirit of Freedom". The ring has no power over him because its purpose is to enslave, but, Freedom can't by its nature be enslaved. I think this is why it is said during the council of Elrond that He would fall last just as he was first. This also fits into the idea of him likely forgetting about the ring where upon it would eventually again seek to return. Freedom tends to focus on the present, future, and near future rather than the strategic far future. When the concept of Freedom is irradiated so then would its personification- Tom Bombadil.
I always looked at it as Tom Bombadil and Goldberry River-Daughter being little splinters of Eru Iluvatar, attached to Arda as it formed, as a way for Eru to personally experience his creation in the same manner as the beings who would inhabit it. Tom and Goldberry are not there to act as or for Eru,, simply to experience the world for Eru. As such, none of the corrupting influences of Arda could affect them. They are incorruptible, just as Eru is incorruptible. I mean, if they became corrupted, they would not serve their purpose of letting Eru experience his creation in the manner that its inhabitants did. Think of their corruption as Eru's surveillance cameras going out and not showing the scene... if you look at it like that, then how Tom and Goldberry act is totally in character with their purpose in Eru's creation.
Maybe Bladorthin was close enough to lend aid to the dwarves of Erebor when the dragon attacked but they never delivered his spears.
Maybe Tolkien was buzz,d and wrote wrong name down,🤪😜
So if Lord of the Rings is ultimately the story of the death of magic in the world, I think Tom Bombadil exists in the story as this little hint that even if the power of the ring and elven magic dies, there’s a bit of magic still left in the world even if it is difficult to find and even more difficult to understand.
Tom’s basically there as a sort of consolation or to basically say “cheer up, there’s still a bit of mystery and a bit of magic left”