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Love the fact your doing this video, map men are great :D The people came here also effects other things as well, for example, my surname is anglo saxon origion. The anglo saxons was the biggest group to arrive in England, while Scotland and Wales who were not invaded by them, so they are more celtic orgion, and are much more related to the original people who lived in Britain. While England was more susepticle to invaders back in those times. The celtics were not invaders while the rest, essentially were, though its likely more complicated that than.
you should react to "How To Say Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch" a music video on youtube: ruclips.net/video/1BXKsQ2nbno/видео.html
Placenames are hard to pronounce and disputed to this day by the people who live in certain towns villages and cities. Take Shrewsbury for example is it pronounced shrew as in the tiny fury animal or shrow.
So... an American couple visit Wales and just have to visit the town with the longest name in the UK. After standing in front of the name sign and arguing about how to pronounce this place, they decide it is time to grab some lunch. As they sit looking through the menu, the waitress comes over to ask if they are ready to order. Hearing that she has a Welsh accent , one of them asks if she is local.”Oh yes” she says, “I was born about five miles away”. “Well, in that case, will you please tell us, very clearly and very slowly, where we are?”. The waitress leans forward and says, very deliberately “Burrr-gerrrr Kiiiinnng” 🤨
Worth pointing out that latin is a relatively clean and standardised language because there are no longer native speakers to drive changes to the language.
Very true, even Italian bears little resemblance to it apart from following more of the rules of Latin than English does, like changing the plural of Latin words still used. ( Octopuses instead of Octopi and Hippopotamuses instead of Hippopotami) Panini is the plural, Panina is the singular in Italian, so don't be surprised when asking for one in an Italian owned bakers or coffee shop one is asked how many if panini is used.
@@tonys1636 Looks like you fell into a trap of your own making. Octopus and hippopotamus are Greek, not Latin. Somewhere else on Utube somebody explained the correct plural of octopus, and it's nothing like octopi. Same with hippopotamus. It contains the words hippo, which appears in Philipp - lover of horses - or hippodrome - a building where horses are kept and trained. The second half is river, like in mesopotamia, the land between the rivers. Ergo, a hippopotamus is Greek for river horse.
@@jdrancho1864 The correct plural for octopus would be octopodes. Since it's a third declension word, it follows the Greek plural. You're wrong about hippopotamus though. While it is indeed derived from ancient Greek, it's a second declension word, so "hippopotami" is the correct plural, like Tony S said. If I remember correctly, the general rule is that nouns that end in -ους (-ous) in Greek are third declension and end in -us in Latin, while nouns ending in -ος (-os) are second declension words, also ending in -us in Latin. In general though, the third declension is just very annoying and irregular and way more complicated than the first two.
@@tonys1636 actually panini is masculine the singular is "panino" and it is a really generic word to say "something with meat or veggies inside bread" basically a sandwich but it is more commonly used for panini made with real bread
As an Englishman who has lived in Wales, I have to say that Welsh place names are only difficult to pronounce if you approach them as English. Welsh is a different language. In fact, Welsh is quite phonetic. Learn the pronunciation of Welsh letters and the way you say the names is largely pretty straightforward.
Indeed. I’m married to an English woman and she struggled with “Pontypridd” for ages, as she stubbornly refused to accept that in Welsh, “dd” sounds like “th”. It was hilarious and annoying at the same time. She pronounces it correctly these days I’m happy to say.
Exactly, yes. I'd say it's about 99% phonetic. The only letter that often isn't is "y". It's why Welsh has so many letters in its alphabet. Every sound is supposed to have its own letter. TH is a letter, for example. DD (which sounds like TH in "the") is another letter. There are a few oddities, though. While it has a "v" sound, it's the letter "f". An "f" is the letter "ff". There is no actual letter "v". That throws a lot of English people off as they'll usually pronounce somewhere like "Dyfed" wrong, not realising that it should be spoken as "Dyved".
@@daviddavies3637 Re Welsh "f" and "ff" - a good way to remember the distinction is to bring to mind the equivalent letters in "of" and "off" in English.
There is one fun place in Britain called Torpenhow Hill up north. Tor, Pen and How are all words for "hill" in various dialects, meaning it translates to Hill hill hill hill. So, it's definitely a hill.
One of the best ones I know which 99% of people pronounce wrong (even those who live nearby) is a small village in West Yorkshire called Slaithwaite - it has two acceptable ways of saying it, either, 'sla-wit' or 'slath-wait' (depending on how broad yorkshire you want to sound) instead of the obvious way, 'slayth-wait'.
As a Scot with a little understanding of Gaelic (that is to say 'Tha beagan Gàilhig agam') Some of our place names our fascinatingly difficult. It's worth noting that whilst Gaelic has had a major influence on our place names, so has Pictish, Norse, Scots and English. For me, the most frustrating was that just within the southwest of the city of Aberdeen are two places called 'Cults' and 'Peterculter' But pronounced 'Cults' (as in the plural of a cult) and 'Peter-cooter'. Other places in Scotland that sound nothing like they're spelled include: Avoch (Och) Cuthill (Kettle) Footdee (Fittie) Turriff (Turra) Forres (Foh-rez) Kirkcaldy (Kir-cod-ee) Hawick (Hoy-ck) Ballachulich (Ba-la-hoo-lish) Dumfries (Dum-frees) Kirkcudbright (Kerr-coo-bree) And possibly most famously and ridiculously Milngavie (Mill-guy)
The village of 'Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch' on the island of Anglesey in North Wales. Translated from Welsh into English means. 'St Mary’s Church In The Hollow Of The White Hazel Near To The Rapid Whirlpool And The Church Of St Tysilio Of The Red Cave'. The name was created in 1869 as a publicity stunt to give the village's newly created railway station the accolade of being the railway station with the longest name in Britain. Day to day everybody shortens it to 'Llanfairpwl' pronounced 'Clan - vair - pul'. Meaning 'St Mary's Church by the pool'.
Ll in welsh is pronounced more like "thl", with the "t" like the one in "the". In real speech, it is more breathy, but doing it via "thl" is close. Where for a pronounced "t" you curve the tip of the tongue up, for the "ll", you have the end and some of the middle of the tongue flatter on the roof of the mouth and soften the sides of your tongue so you can blow past it gently but with enough force to present itself and not whistling.
Never heard of it as Llanfairpwll (the Welsh word for pwll. You were doing well up until then! :-P ) I, and most of Wales as far as I know call it Llanfair P.G.
In order to pronounce Welsh "LL" then place your mouth as if you were about to voice the letter "L". With your tongue up against the roof of your mouth. Hold that "L" position and then just exhale. Breathe out. As your tongue is in the way, the air will escape out of the sides of your mouth, towards your teeth (though feel free to position your tongue so the air is only coming out one side, if you like. I do that and prefer the left side). Note that Welsh "LL" is not voiced at all. Your throat / vocal cords do nothing. You're just exhaling with your tongue in the way. It sounds like TV / radio static. White noise. Like a hissing snake.
best pronounciation story I ever heard was in Devon there is a village called Crapstone. In the local pub some very posh Londoner asked a local if they really said Crapstone, the local replied, ...."No zurr round 'ere we calls it Shitabrick!"
There is indeed a place called Crapstone! It's on Dartmoor, and was named so because... well, it has a huge tor (lump of granite you can climb up,) and the sheep like to... well, y'know...
On British history regarding incoming groups and languages 1)Britons. Speakers of Celtic languages. Assumedly, the original inhabitants of the British Isles. A) Some evidence suggests trade networks between pre-Roman Britons, and European powers, As such their may be European influence of names in this Celtic languages 2) Romans. Speakers of Latin. Earliest known conquering invaders. A) As well as Latin, many Romans were fluent in Greek, which may also be an influence. B) Strong evidence of a complex trade network, European influence likely. 3) Anglo-Saxons. A number of Germanic groups, including the Angles, and the Saxons, who spoke Germanic languages. Invaded Britain after the Romans abandoned it. A) As these people have previously been conquered by Romans, they would have come with some Latin influences B) Geographic proximity, in their original lands, also meant some Norse influences 4) Vikings. Speakers of Norse. Originally raiders, later established their own communities, and territories in the British Isles. A) Vikings took slaves from all over, it is highly likely that other European languages would have been influential here. 5) Normans. Speakers of French(ish). Invaders coming over in 1066 to seize the throne of England. They succeeded and French spread from the top down. A) 'Norman' derives from 'Norse-Man', these people descended from Vikings who settled in the Normandy region of France. As such, they would likely have equal Norse, and French influence on names. B) French is a romance language, it is heavily based on Latin, as such there would also be Latin influences here.
@@JackRabbit002 It first came out when I was still in primary school but I’m fairly sure my parents enjoyed watching it almost as much as I did. I really don’t think I’ll ever forget the songs from that show
Not to confuse, just the lazy anglo-saxon tongue has adopted a pronunciation that is easier to get your mouth around. As per Magdalen college Oxford always pronounced Madlen, the name Mainwaring pronounced Mannering and so on.
Which I have actually heard pronounced lu-ga-bar-ouuooo-ga by an American tourist. I couldn't bring myself to correct him and just hoped he'd keep it up and brighten someone else's day
Sarah I absolutely admire your desire to learn more about us weird Brits. You present some videos that are amazing and even educate us about ourselves.
@@SoGal_YT I've found some sites were cricket is being played in the USA , basically due to the Asian influence in America but one club I think nearly goes back the 13 colonies , if you want me to send the names just say
It's great to see an intelligent channel , and a lovely lady who is scholarly and genuinely wants to learn . Hope you and hubby get the chance to visit us one day , I'm sure you will both love it .🇬🇧
"Woo-stuh-shur" So many of us Brits get this one wrong too. And I'd absolutely say to check out more of our History, it's a long one of being constantly invaded and conquered. There's a reason we eventually got rather good at war, we'd simply experienced a lot of it. (Means we have really awesome castles as well as mythology built upon so many of those invading cultures)
That crazy 58 letter Welsh town name translates as: Saint Mary’s Church in the hollow of the white hazel near a rapid whirlpool and the Church of St. Tysilio of the red cave.
I grew up in West Yorkshire in a town called Keighley (shows in Jay's video), pronounced Keith-Ly, with a "TH" sound even though there's no T. Oh and by the was London, and the city of London are two different things, the city of London is just under 3 km2 compared to the whole of London which is 1,569 km2
Welcome to Cornwall. Kernow a gas dynargh. That's one of our Celtic languages and lands. Hope my welsh and scottish friends here tell you about Alba and Cymru also. Meur ras. Dedh da.
By Tre, Pol, and Pen, you shall know the Cornishmen. An old saying because so many places in the duchy begin with those letters. Tre = homestead. Pol = pool. Pen = headland.
@@andrewclayton4181 Thanks for the rhyme which explains the key Cornish place names and surnames. Also in Kernow: Chy - house. Eglos - Church. Towan - Dune. Porth - port. Du - Black. Tyak - farmer. Brea, Carn, Par, Jinjy, Ros, penwith, trewithen. Lanhydrock, gullyngvaze, ellemglaze, marazion, ventongimps, marazanvose, tregavethen, Truro.. so much in Cornish names.
Cornwall was named this by the anglo saxons. The saxons called Cymru wales, and the people there Welsh - means foreigner! Cornwall is Kernow Wales - or Cornish foreigners. The history of Britain saw the romano Celts getting pushed to the fringes by the anglo saxons and later normans and English people. The language was mostly wiped out by replacement of latin and Cornish with English in prayer books, which caused 15th and 16th century rebellion. Cornwall was under threat when it joined the losing King in the English civil war and smuggling trade in the 18th century let English become the lingua franca. Forever though, Cornish place names and names remind us. Demelza, Morwenna, Lowenna, beautiful ladies that came from Falmouth back in the day. I'm a 70s,80s guy.
Love your videos - literate, informative, and self-effacing (the last not a generally recognised American trait!). But fascinating though British place-names are in their power to confuse tourists, what are even more intriguing are the straightforwardly beautiful names. So I'd like to get you started on my two favourite English village names: Haselbury Plucknett; and the absolutely gorgeous village called Ryme Intrinseca. (The first is in Somerset, the second in Dorset - the latter county a treasurehouse of charming names. The origin of my own surname is also from Dorset, and is sort of nice...but that's another story.) Keep them coming. You make the lockdown bearable.
I know nothing of the Welsh language other than that c. 1970 I took my mother and aunt for a holiday in North Wales and in a remote village my fan belt broke, happily within coasting distance of the local garage. I explained my dilemma to the proprietor who called over a mechanic and spoke to him in Welsh but with ‘fan belt’ said in English. I have therefore believed for over half a century that there is no word in Welsh for it. I know that this is absolutely not an answer to the question in the video, but I could not resist reminiscing about my only contact with the Welsh language. Sorry.
Also even as a Scot I got caught making one of the most common mistakes in Scottish place names. Milngavie just outside Glasgow is pronounced “Mullguy”.
@@kernowforester811 I once read a doctoral thesis that claimed that the Mumerzet accent was the Saxon accent which is why it stretches from Somerset to Norfolk. Could be true ...
the celts arrived in blighty between 3500bc and 500bc. academics argue over the fine details. somebody lived here before that, but very little remains of their culture. its claimed the peoples around glastonbury, in the marshes have existed there for 5k years, but its tricky to confirm this, as they didnt tend to build stone structures.
@@Hugh.G.Rectionx You've got us there, only other places I can think of is Threshers Bush, and Turkey Cock Lane in Copford. Though I have been to Shitterton in Dorset :D
Great reactions, I love 'em. There is a really good poem for pronunciation the first two lines of which are "I take it you already know, Of tough and bough and cough and dough". You can find it online by just typing the first line into your serch engine.
Aye we do have sheriffs in the UK.. in Scotland a sheriff is a Judge or a sheriff’s officer is the equivalent of a debt collector, great vid though quite funny 👌🏻
In England, Wales and Northern Ireland the post tends to be more "highfalutin" (like the Sheriff of Nottingham) and the title is usually used for the (largely ceremonial) High Sheriff of each county - these are (very) theoretically the monarch's own judicial representative; It's an honour role though, like the lord-lieutenant who is (again very) theoretically the monarch's personal and military representative for each county.
There were two "invasions" of Celtic language speakers to the island of Great Britain. "Invasion" tends to imply military conquest whereas these were more osmotic being through migration and trade. The first "invasion" occurred in the 7th century BC and brought the Brythonic language with them. This spread throughout the island but is today restricted to Wales (Welsh), Cornwall (Cornish) and Brittany (Breton). Cumbric and Pictish both died out in the 12th century AD. The second "invasion" occurred in the 6th century AD from Ireland and brought the Goidelic language to Great Britain. Today this language subsists in Ireland (Irish or Erse), the Isle of Man (Manx) and Scotland (Gaelic) where it replaced the Brythonic Pictish.
As a Devon girl, I had an entire childhood of petty enjoyment from knowing the crazy pronunciation of a lot of Devonshire places baffled the visitors - names like: Teignmouth (Tin-muth,) Loddiswell (Lodz-wul,) Torquay (Tor-kee) and Mousehole (Mowzul.) I knew the secret behind pronouncing Devon places; us Janners love our vowels, but only if there's not too many of them, and especially without chucking a load of consonants in between them as well... the key is to pick one or - at most! - two favourite vowels, and skip over as many consonants as possible to get to that. And then I moved to Kent. They seem to do things differently; they like to take their time over pronouncing their placenames. And I was the one who started getting laughed at, for trying to apply my Devonian Rules of pronunciation. So now I know that Wrotham is 'Rootum' and not 'Rothum,' Teston is 'Tee-ston' and not 'Testun,' and Leybourne is 'Lay-born' and not 'Lebburn.'
RUclips suggested this video to me, and I found it interesting, I am from Brighton on the South Coast of England - pronounced "Bright-un" - and the town was previously known as Brighthelmstone, Brighton starting off as an informal slang name...
Also, this has nothing to do with anything, but I recommend historia civilis' series on Rome. It's fun, accessible and a good way to start learning about the end of the Republic. He has a playlist chronological in order in his channel. I recommend starting with the video on Cicero's year and going down the years, but there are other videos that explain the context, names and gouvernement positions.
Map Men are magic. Lots of interesting stuff to unpack with them! Watch more. English is not a "real" language. It was a spoken language, spoken and pronounced differently in every corner of the country. French was the "official" language since the Norman conquest. When it was finally codified and rules applied.... they just picked the bits they liked and the "rules" tend to have more exceptions that break the rules than follow them. Makes it a very simple language to "get by in" and almost impossible to understand in its entirety. Bill Bryson's The Mother Tongue is the best book I have ever come across on the subject. Funny too. Loughborough LOO GA BAROO GAH instead of LUFF BRAH was always my fav.
If you're interested in learning more about the changes over time in the English language, I highly recommend the channel Nativlang, particularly their video about what English would have sounded like in Shakespeare's time. He does plenty of other videos on all sorts of languages from around the world too, so if you're interested in covering different languages on this channel then it's a great place to start! Really enjoying your videos so far! ^-^
Born and now living back in Frome after a life in the military listening to my friends from around the country mis pronounce my place of birth is just normal for me now. Add my French/Swiss surname to the mix which everyone seems to struggle with and you have a life of not really being bothered by mis pronunciation at all. It just is.
Fromey here too but currently living in Bristol. At least most people here seem to know how to pronounce it but you do bump into the odd person that gets it wrong and then have that awkward moment of deciding whether to correct them or not.
Worcestershire sauce is pronounced (at least in my accent): Wuss - ter - sher That's it. A lot easier than the way I always hear Americans always say it (workusssesssesssster-shire) 😂😂
Remember it this way, the shire of Worcester, but just happen to forget to say the r,c and e. Also our phonetic rules come from multiple places, so we don't have hard and fast rules. which is why English is one of the hardest to learn, but is also the most flexible
On a few occasions I've passed the town of Brough, just off the A66. I still don't know if it's pronounced "Bruff" or "Brow" or "Broo"... or something else completely random.
Great vid. If you want to learn more about the UK and its history, with the same kind of sense of humour, you should watch the BBC series 'Horrible Histories'.
Hi SoGal. I love the fact that you are looking at the shared language and heritage of the US and UK. I am also a fan of history (particularly military history) and note that you are looking to expand your voyage of discovery overseas. Can I suggest you look at the Battle of Imjin River in the Korean War to see how the difference in our uses if the English language can lead to a military disaster. Keep it up - really enjoy watching and learning with you.
you should check out horrible histories its gotta be main reason loads of brits actually know loads of history, when i was a kid it was just a book but there is a tv show and its quite funny and full of interesting facts
Unlike the USA, however, "sheriff" isn't a police rank/title. British police have the following titles: Constable, Sergeant, Inspector, Chief Inspector, Superintendent, Chief Superintendent, Deputy Chief Constable, Chief Constable.
If you're curious, Sheriff comes from the Old English word 'Scīrgerafa' which means Shire-reeve. They served a role somewhat like that of a modern police officer
Wales is definitely another level, but it's pretty much cause the Welsh alphabet is different from English, once you have a basic understanding of the phonetics it's actually easier to guess Welsh placenames by just reading them out phonetically than it is reading English placenames that have a bunch of special exemptions to common rules and local dialect changes.
Not difficult to pronounce where I'm from. Officially its Kingston-upon-Hull but it is almost always shortened to simply, 'ull, just across the river from Grimsby actually. There is a street here called Whitefriargate which is pronounced White-fruh-gate and off that street is a smaller one which is genuinely called, The Land of Green Ginger! Imagine that, you could actually live in a place called The Land of Green Ginger! 😊
Jay Foreman videos are excellent. Their one on the north south divide is good, and so are his politics videos such as who's incharge of Britain and why politicians never answer questions.
Even worse, the Arkansas River is pronounced Ar-kan-sas. I think the difference is produced by whether or not English-speakers acquired the name via French-speakers or not.
For the place named Mousehole, their lifeboat crew were part of a disaster to hit the Royal National Lifeboat Institution (the charity that saves lives at sea) in 1981. The Penlee Lifeboat was based near there upto 19th December 1981 when they answered a mayday from a cargo ship named Union Star, there were no survivors from either. There was a documentary made for the 25th anniversary of the disaster called Cruel Sea: The Penlee Disaster. Its here on RUclips if you want to learn more, the RNLI btw is the worlds first sea rescue service. I'm from Sheffield, South Yorkshire and I thought that the story about Mousehole would interest you a little.
Try this one from my native Lincolnshire ... the village of Aslackby. A pound to a penny you get it wrong. A hint: It begins ‘ay’, the ‘s’ is pronounced ‘z’, the ‘l’ is heard and the ‘ack’ is (of course) silent. The ‘by’ as you now know is Danish denoting a Viking place name (as is my home village of Ulceby). Also in Lincolnshire, is Spital in the Street. Street reveals it’s position on a Roman road - in this case Ermine Street, which ran from Londinium (London) through Lindum Colonia (Lincoln) to Eboracum (York). The ‘spital’ is derived from the fact there was a hospital there - probably serving travellers using the Roman road.
Just to show variety, here are some examples and their pronunciation. Bough = Bow, cow, Cough = coff, Dough = Doh, Enough = enuff, Hough = huff or how, Lough = lock, Rough = ruff, Sough = sow, cow, now, Tough = tuff, Borough = burra, furlough = fur-low. After this it starts to get complicated. lol
The one thing you can't conseptulize is that people from all over the country pronounce our names with different accents it shows you it just takes you down another rabbit hole
Shires historically are sections of land administered by a shire-reeve, pronounced “sheriff”, as in “of Nottingham”. Or to be more accurate, of Nottinghamshire.
Place names ending ING mark the first saxons settlements, meaning someone's tribe or people. Hence Barking means Bark's people. These settlements are usually close to the coast or large rivers, where saxons first settled
I am living in Chester and I did my Archaeology degree here. One of the digs I was involved with at Caerwys in North Wales helped prove the Romans got a lot further across towards Anglesey than originally believed. A circular buttress of the style from the time of the legion based in Chester is pretty distinctive. It explains why there was a permanent fortress here with one of the few amphitheatres in Britain. There is a large, elliptical building that is unique to the entire Roman Empire that was absolutely massive and the height of luxury for the time. Knowing the fact that they were nearer to their goal than believed it has been suggested as a government structure designed to strike fear into anyone withstanding them.
There was a roman villa discovered in Flint while building a new housing estate, apparently there is no historical record of it ever existing and was a complete surprise Think it was found and archaeological dig carried out around 2018, think it might have been done or sponsored by CADW, don't remember much more than that about it, but now I'm motivated to see what's out there about it, seeing as I live there lol
@@legion162 I heard about that one! I was at Caerwys in 2016/17 and was meant to go on a 'rescue' dig in 2018 but my health prevented it. I wasn't made aware of where it was, just that it was in the North East of Wales. Anything discovered during construction is considered 'rescue' simply because it needs to be recorded and excavated immediately before it gets destroyed or damaged.
@@Mrs.Fezziwig there was a recent, think last summer, partial/little dig at Ewloe Castle, apparently some interesting things going on there, and very recently the big church at the very top of Mold High Street, again I believe that they discovered that the place had much older origins than was first thought. Anyways, how mad is it we both commenting on video by an American woman, we live 10ish miles apart and have an interest in archeology, talk about getting side tracked 🤣🤣
@@legion162 it is so cool to find someone so nearby and into archaeology, I agree. I know the church you mean, I lived in Rhydymyn for a few months in 2006. I knew from the Daniel Owen (sorry if I've got that wrong) Centre that the church was rumoured to be on important archaeology, that they got it dug is fantastic! Shame there wasn't a lost king buried there.
We have lots around the Bedworth area (Bedduth) including ... Styvichale , which is said as "sty-chull". Cheylesmore "Charles-more", Pinwall, "pin-ull".
In North Kent there is the remains of the ancient forest and the North Downs Way (pilgrimage route) called ‘Trosley country park’ spelt Trottiscliffe. I live just a few miles away and did not learn this until I visited it. Keeps life interesting.
We can’t know 100%, you’re correct. But I was taught that Latin scholars can decipher the pronunciations to a certain extent. But just like all languages, pronunciation can change and there’s a generally accepted way of speaking Latin today...so that’s mostly what I was referring to.
Yes we do. We know from how other languages - German for instance - came to spell words of Latin origin. "Caesar", for instance, would have been pronounced in Latin with a "hard" C - so in German the word becomes "Kaiser". There are dozens of examples. What's confusing is that in the Middle Ages ecclesiastical scholars took it upon themselves to "Italianise" much original Latin - adding all those pretty accents schoolboys like me despaired of ever learning.
@@aw6936 : Yet the same word has different pronunciations from different areas of Europe. Tsar for the Russians Caesar with a soft C in Britain despite English having close links to German. Until someone invents a time machine arguments over Latin are always going to exist.
Great presentation. I'm a big fan of Jay Foreman, I love the lightning pace and clever wit. The differences with the suffix "cester" eg. Worcester (pron. "wooster") and Cirencester (pronounced as seen) remind me of Arkansas ("Arkansaw") vs Arkansas City where the Arkansas is pronounced as seen ...though the locals just call it "Ark City".
a lot of people believe the Celts are from mainly Scotland Ireland Wales and part of Cornwall! The Celts are not a race as such but a number of individual tribes that spoke a similar language and were spread across most of Northern Europe and Spain!
Just found you today. The funny Map Men have been a must for a yr since lockdown started. Now A few recommendations, Lindybeige, he does all sorts that will help you and his sponsorship adverts are funny too. Travel Tim is a relative of J. Forman, also funny but lives in French France. Adventures and Naps, Alanna's done the place names and used Google translate and her reactions to the spoken name is hilarious as is her tasting alcoholic drinks and sweets. Wandering Ravens you will like and have also covered this and other stuff..... you can tell I'm stuck at home can't you 🙂 Will look at your other vlog work. Enjoyed this one btw. Dave if Liverpool, Merseyside.
Love the content you post, you delve deeper than most to find the real meanings of well everything you look into, you also genuinely try with the pronunciation of place names, you do beat yourself up far too much for the smallest error, if you were ever to visit the UK by all means visit London but don't make it your main destination, further north is less expensive by a long way, the old buildings are much older generally and many are free or much cheaper to visit, York is a good city to visit, it was the capitol of England long before London ever was and is a genuine Roman city so much older than London too, the city walls are still intact and you can walk along the top of them either for free or at little cost, even the old buildings and roads are still in public use as shops etc with roads that are 3-4ft wide so no traffic. Keep up with the great content and thank you for the time and effort that you put in to making it :) Oh almost forgot, say Hi to Roger for me :)
Names of places change depending how you talk also. Local slang can become part of a descriptions in the UK. Where I live is York ... but my village is 3 miles from the City Centre and is called Acomb, The name Acomb .. pronounced " A - Come " comes directly from the Roman name for York ... which was Eboracum ... Breaking that down .... you find Acum in the name. but along the east coast the locals there say I would come from " Yacum Sand Holes " ... because Acomb is truly one giant Sand pit that was created by the Ice Age. So there you have a little local history of how our name came to be. Thank you for sharing your video and Greetings from York. England. Yes` that is the rainy part of the planet.
Welsh is a lovely language and so much older than English. It’s worth learning a few words of for interest. They have been on this island much longer than us English, they have an ancient poetic tradition and consonants that change in mysterious ways. There is also good reason that they resisted Roman rule! The Welsh alphabet is visually similar to English but has different consonant and vowel sounds and no “X”. Have a look at some Welsh speakers on RUclips, you’ll be fascinated.
An interesting example is Southwick. The place on the outskirts of Brighton is pronounced south - wick whereas the place outside of Portsmouth from where Eisenhower gave D-day the final go ahead is pronounced suth-irk
That Welsh place with the long name, its just a local joke developed to draw tourism. The real place name is very much shorter. How come Arkansas is pronounced with 'saw' at the end????
If you enjoyed learning about how to pronounce British place names you might like the historyofenglishpodcast.com/ podcast. It covers the complete history of the english language and is told in an interesting way woven into the history of Britain. I'm British and I learnt lots from listening. I believe it is produced by an American.
The North pronounces words differently to the South, and the East is different to the West. The Midlands is different to everybody. And that's just England!!! Place names are inherited from the past. So will have varying influences from the peoples ruling at that time, modified by the attempts of later people to cope with an unfamiliar tongue. Celtic, Latin, Anglo-Saxon, Norman-French. Most of these Languages have very little in common
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Love the fact your doing this video, map men are great :D The people came here also effects other things as well, for example, my surname is anglo saxon origion. The anglo saxons was the biggest group to arrive in England, while Scotland and Wales who were not invaded by them, so they are more celtic orgion, and are much more related to the original people who lived in Britain. While England was more susepticle to invaders back in those times. The celtics were not invaders while the rest, essentially were, though its likely more complicated that than.
you should react to "How To Say Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch" a music video on youtube: ruclips.net/video/1BXKsQ2nbno/видео.html
Placenames are hard to pronounce and disputed to this day by the people who live in certain towns villages and cities. Take Shrewsbury for example is it pronounced shrew as in the tiny fury animal or shrow.
@@antonywarriner6002 never heard of the shrow prenounceation before
@@bleddynwolf8463 lived there on and off posh people tend to say shrew peasants shrow
So... an American couple visit Wales and just have to visit the town with the longest name in the UK. After standing in front of the name sign and arguing about how to pronounce this place, they decide it is time to grab some lunch. As they sit looking through the menu, the waitress comes over to ask if they are ready to order. Hearing that she has a Welsh accent , one of them asks if she is local.”Oh yes” she says, “I was born about five miles away”. “Well, in that case, will you please tell us, very clearly and very slowly, where we are?”. The waitress leans forward and says, very deliberately “Burrr-gerrrr Kiiiinnng” 🤨
😂
The old ones are the best!
I’m dead..
i used to use Little Chef as the punch line haha
😂🤣
Worth pointing out that latin is a relatively clean and standardised language because there are no longer native speakers to drive changes to the language.
Very true, even Italian bears little resemblance to it apart from following more of the rules of Latin than English does, like changing the plural of Latin words still used. ( Octopuses instead of Octopi and Hippopotamuses instead of Hippopotami) Panini is the plural, Panina is the singular in Italian, so don't be surprised when asking for one in an Italian owned bakers or coffee shop one is asked how many if panini is used.
@@tonys1636 Looks like you fell into a trap of your own making. Octopus and hippopotamus are Greek, not Latin. Somewhere else on Utube somebody explained the correct plural of octopus, and it's nothing like octopi.
Same with hippopotamus. It contains the words hippo, which appears in Philipp - lover of horses - or hippodrome - a building where horses are kept and trained.
The second half is river, like in mesopotamia, the land between the rivers.
Ergo, a hippopotamus is Greek for river horse.
@@jdrancho1864 The correct plural for octopus would be octopodes. Since it's a third declension word, it follows the Greek plural.
You're wrong about hippopotamus though. While it is indeed derived from ancient Greek, it's a second declension word, so "hippopotami" is the correct plural, like Tony S said.
If I remember correctly, the general rule is that nouns that end in -ους (-ous) in Greek are third declension and end in -us in Latin, while nouns ending in -ος (-os) are second declension words, also ending in -us in Latin.
In general though, the third declension is just very annoying and irregular and way more complicated than the first two.
@@qwertyuiopzxcfgh "Thank you, Bernard, you've outdone yourself".
@@tonys1636 actually panini is masculine the singular is "panino" and it is a really generic word to say "something with meat or veggies inside bread" basically a sandwich but it is more commonly used for panini made with real bread
As an Englishman who has lived in Wales, I have to say that Welsh place names are only difficult to pronounce if you approach them as English. Welsh is a different language. In fact, Welsh is quite phonetic. Learn the pronunciation of Welsh letters and the way you say the names is largely pretty straightforward.
Absolutely true, and thanks for pointing it out!
Indeed. I’m married to an English woman and she struggled with “Pontypridd” for ages, as she stubbornly refused to accept that in Welsh, “dd” sounds like “th”. It was hilarious and annoying at the same time. She pronounces it correctly these days I’m happy to say.
Exactly, yes. I'd say it's about 99% phonetic. The only letter that often isn't is "y". It's why Welsh has so many letters in its alphabet. Every sound is supposed to have its own letter. TH is a letter, for example. DD (which sounds like TH in "the") is another letter. There are a few oddities, though. While it has a "v" sound, it's the letter "f". An "f" is the letter "ff". There is no actual letter "v". That throws a lot of English people off as they'll usually pronounce somewhere like "Dyfed" wrong, not realising that it should be spoken as "Dyved".
they dont speak in wales they sing ;)
@@daviddavies3637 Re Welsh "f" and "ff" - a good way to remember the distinction is to bring to mind the equivalent letters in "of" and "off" in English.
The rule for the English language is all the rules have exceptions, it's just a matter of how many exceptions.
there are exceptions to every exception
As an example:-
I before E, except after C, When the sound is Ee. Yet there Are many exceptions to even that detailed rule
@@paulcollyer801 there are more exceptions than words that follow it...
Glendale Valley, in the lake district, is another good one!
But don't forget the exception where there is NO exception. Because even the rule that every rule has an exception must have an exception ;)
There is one fun place in Britain called Torpenhow Hill up north. Tor, Pen and How are all words for "hill" in various dialects, meaning it translates to Hill hill hill hill. So, it's definitely a hill.
Not quite. See this: ruclips.net/video/NUyXiiIGDTo/видео.html
There is a village near me called Hucking. Try pronouncing that properly when you're pissed.
Also, there is Bredon Hill, next to the River Avon. which means "hill, hill, hill, next to the river river :-D
And it's pronounced as Tropenha!
Lundy Island. Puffin Island Island.
More Jay Foreman. His stuff is brilliant.
Also, please don't apologise for getting things wrong, you're trying to learn that's the main thing!
One of the best ones I know which 99% of people pronounce wrong (even those who live nearby) is a small village in West Yorkshire called Slaithwaite - it has two acceptable ways of saying it, either, 'sla-wit' or 'slath-wait' (depending on how broad yorkshire you want to sound) instead of the obvious way, 'slayth-wait'.
As a Scot with a little understanding of Gaelic (that is to say 'Tha beagan Gàilhig agam')
Some of our place names our fascinatingly difficult. It's worth noting that whilst Gaelic has had a major influence on our place names, so has Pictish, Norse, Scots and English.
For me, the most frustrating was that just within the southwest of the city of Aberdeen are two places called 'Cults' and 'Peterculter'
But pronounced 'Cults' (as in the plural of a cult) and 'Peter-cooter'.
Other places in Scotland that sound nothing like they're spelled include:
Avoch (Och)
Cuthill (Kettle)
Footdee (Fittie)
Turriff (Turra)
Forres (Foh-rez)
Kirkcaldy (Kir-cod-ee)
Hawick (Hoy-ck)
Ballachulich (Ba-la-hoo-lish)
Dumfries (Dum-frees)
Kirkcudbright (Kerr-coo-bree)
And possibly most famously and ridiculously
Milngavie (Mill-guy)
The village of 'Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch' on the island of Anglesey in North Wales. Translated from Welsh into English means. 'St Mary’s Church In The Hollow Of The White Hazel Near To The Rapid Whirlpool And The Church Of St Tysilio Of The Red Cave'.
The name was created in 1869 as a publicity stunt to give the village's newly created railway station the accolade of being the railway station with the longest name in Britain. Day to day everybody shortens it to 'Llanfairpwl' pronounced 'Clan - vair - pul'. Meaning 'St Mary's Church by the pool'.
I used to work for Royal Mail, and in the postcode books it's listed as "Llanfair". Perhaps otherwise the Welsh books would be four times as long.
The Welsh double 'll' sound is not equivalent to 'cl'. It's a sort of aspirated 'l' that just doesn't exist in English at all.
Ll in welsh is pronounced more like "thl", with the "t" like the one in "the". In real speech, it is more breathy, but doing it via "thl" is close. Where for a pronounced "t" you curve the tip of the tongue up, for the "ll", you have the end and some of the middle of the tongue flatter on the roof of the mouth and soften the sides of your tongue so you can blow past it gently but with enough force to present itself and not whistling.
Never heard of it as Llanfairpwll (the Welsh word for pwll. You were doing well up until then! :-P ) I, and most of Wales as far as I know call it Llanfair P.G.
In order to pronounce Welsh "LL" then place your mouth as if you were about to voice the letter "L". With your tongue up against the roof of your mouth.
Hold that "L" position and then just exhale. Breathe out.
As your tongue is in the way, the air will escape out of the sides of your mouth, towards your teeth (though feel free to position your tongue so the air is only coming out one side, if you like. I do that and prefer the left side).
Note that Welsh "LL" is not voiced at all. Your throat / vocal cords do nothing. You're just exhaling with your tongue in the way.
It sounds like TV / radio static. White noise. Like a hissing snake.
best pronounciation story I ever heard was in Devon there is a village called Crapstone. In the local pub some very posh Londoner asked a local if they really said Crapstone, the local replied, ...."No zurr round 'ere we calls it Shitabrick!"
There is indeed a place called Crapstone! It's on Dartmoor, and was named so because... well, it has a huge tor (lump of granite you can climb up,) and the sheep like to... well, y'know...
Funny placenames in Ireland include Porridgetown,(that creates a stir), Mooncoin, Kilmacow, Leap, Hags head, Irelands eye, Ballyjamesduff,Ballymadog,Kill,etc
@geraldwalsh6489 they are certainly up there with Pratts Bottom Piddletrenthide and Middle Wallop
@@geraldwalsh6489 You forgot about Muff
I like the level of detail here. Seeing a person genuinely trying to learn new stuff is great!
On British history regarding incoming groups and languages
1)Britons. Speakers of Celtic languages. Assumedly, the original inhabitants of the British Isles.
A) Some evidence suggests trade networks between pre-Roman Britons, and European powers, As such their may be European influence of names in this Celtic languages
2) Romans. Speakers of Latin. Earliest known conquering invaders.
A) As well as Latin, many Romans were fluent in Greek, which may also be an influence.
B) Strong evidence of a complex trade network, European influence likely.
3) Anglo-Saxons. A number of Germanic groups, including the Angles, and the Saxons, who spoke Germanic languages. Invaded Britain after the Romans abandoned it.
A) As these people have previously been conquered by Romans, they would have come with some Latin influences
B) Geographic proximity, in their original lands, also meant some Norse influences
4) Vikings. Speakers of Norse. Originally raiders, later established their own communities, and territories in the British Isles.
A) Vikings took slaves from all over, it is highly likely that other European languages would have been influential here.
5) Normans. Speakers of French(ish). Invaders coming over in 1066 to seize the throne of England. They succeeded and French spread from the top down.
A) 'Norman' derives from 'Norse-Man', these people descended from Vikings who settled in the Normandy region of France. As such, they would likely have equal Norse, and French influence on names.
B) French is a romance language, it is heavily based on Latin, as such there would also be Latin influences here.
Please please please react to horrible histories. You’ll have a great laugh and be learning at the same time
I second that a show aimed a kids but easily watchable as a adult! If anything think some of the gags are just intended to be.
It’s also extremely accurate, even down to costumes
@@JackRabbit002 It first came out when I was still in primary school but I’m fairly sure my parents enjoyed watching it almost as much as I did. I really don’t think I’ll ever forget the songs from that show
"stupid deaths, stupid deaths. I hope next time it's not you!"
...."HORRIBLE HISTORIEEEEEES"
🤘👌
@@airbournman6282 that was the soundtrack to my youth
Nobody seems to have mentioned Cholmondeley - pronounced Chumley, I suspect to deliberately confuse.
Or Slaithewaithe.
Not to confuse, just the lazy anglo-saxon tongue has adopted a pronunciation that is easier to get your mouth around. As per Magdalen college Oxford always pronounced Madlen, the name Mainwaring pronounced Mannering and so on.
My favourite is Featherstonehaugh, pronounced Fanshaw
Or Milngavie
Or Godmanchester (pronounced Gum-ster)
I'm surprised they didn't mention Loughborough which has 'ough' pronounced two completely different ways in the same word (it's luffburrah).
Which I have actually heard pronounced lu-ga-bar-ouuooo-ga by an American tourist. I couldn't bring myself to correct him and just hoped he'd keep it up and brighten someone else's day
@@Dementat I'm Australian and I've had a few Brits making the pronunciation joke but pertaining to an Aussie tourist. Also of course, Slough.
I head Log-berg before...
I usually refer to it as Looburoo, just to confuse people.
4:40 both pronunciations are correct. It depends on ones accent.
Sarah I absolutely admire your desire to learn more about us weird Brits. You present some videos that are amazing and even educate us about ourselves.
Thanks!
@@SoGal_YT I've found some sites were cricket is being played in the USA , basically due to the Asian influence in America but one club I think nearly goes back the 13 colonies , if you want me to send the names just say
It's great to see an intelligent channel , and a lovely lady who is scholarly and genuinely wants to learn . Hope you and hubby get the chance to visit us one day , I'm sure you will both love it .🇬🇧
"Woo-stuh-shur" So many of us Brits get this one wrong too.
And I'd absolutely say to check out more of our History, it's a long one of being constantly invaded and conquered. There's a reason we eventually got rather good at war, we'd simply experienced a lot of it. (Means we have really awesome castles as well as mythology built upon so many of those invading cultures)
The town of Towcester needs to have a picture of a toaster on its signs so people can have an easier time pronouncing it xD
That crazy 58 letter Welsh town name translates as: Saint Mary’s Church in the hollow of the white hazel near a rapid whirlpool and the Church of St. Tysilio of the red cave.
NB: it takes about 120 letters for English to say the same. Who said that Welsh place-names were overlong? ;)
@@ftumschk Well imagine if an English town had that full name. Then imagine they tried to make it into one long word.
It's also good to mention it was a publicity stunt, its not a "authentic" name.
@@moldveien1515 Thought it was a train station name.
@@joeloates1685 It is it was the local big wig that wanted it called that. PS most people just say Llanfairpg
I grew up in West Yorkshire in a town called Keighley (shows in Jay's video), pronounced Keith-Ly, with a "TH" sound even though there's no T.
Oh and by the was London, and the city of London are two different things, the city of London is just under 3 km2 compared to the whole of London which is 1,569 km2
Thanks very much for the shout out :) Worcestershire is spot on. The 2 CGP Grey videos on the City of London are superb
Welcome to Cornwall. Kernow a gas dynargh. That's one of our Celtic languages and lands. Hope my welsh and scottish friends here tell you about Alba and Cymru also. Meur ras. Dedh da.
Oll an gwella. Bodmin, Cornwall.
@@kernowforester811 Onen hag oll. 😁
By Tre, Pol, and Pen, you shall know the Cornishmen.
An old saying because so many places in the duchy begin with those letters.
Tre = homestead.
Pol = pool.
Pen = headland.
@@andrewclayton4181 Thanks for the rhyme which explains the key Cornish place names and surnames. Also in Kernow: Chy - house. Eglos - Church. Towan - Dune. Porth - port. Du - Black. Tyak - farmer. Brea, Carn, Par, Jinjy, Ros, penwith, trewithen. Lanhydrock, gullyngvaze, ellemglaze, marazion, ventongimps, marazanvose, tregavethen, Truro.. so much in Cornish names.
Cornwall was named this by the anglo saxons. The saxons called Cymru wales, and the people there Welsh - means foreigner! Cornwall is Kernow Wales - or Cornish foreigners. The history of Britain saw the romano Celts getting pushed to the fringes by the anglo saxons and later normans and English people. The language was mostly wiped out by replacement of latin and Cornish with English in prayer books, which caused 15th and 16th century rebellion. Cornwall was under threat when it joined the losing King in the English civil war and smuggling trade in the 18th century let English become the lingua franca. Forever though, Cornish place names and names remind us. Demelza, Morwenna, Lowenna, beautiful ladies that came from Falmouth back in the day. I'm a 70s,80s guy.
Love your videos - literate, informative, and self-effacing (the last not a generally recognised American trait!). But fascinating though British place-names are in their power to confuse tourists, what are even more intriguing are the straightforwardly beautiful names. So I'd like to get you started on my two favourite English village names: Haselbury Plucknett; and the absolutely gorgeous village called Ryme Intrinseca. (The first is in Somerset, the second in Dorset - the latter county a treasurehouse of charming names. The origin of my own surname is also from Dorset, and is sort of nice...but that's another story.) Keep them coming. You make the lockdown bearable.
Ah your surname must be Wurzel.
@@kroo07 Cheeky swine...
@@aw6936 A thousand apologies from an errant ex-Dorsetite.
I know nothing of the Welsh language other than that c. 1970 I took my mother and aunt for a holiday in North Wales and in a remote village my fan belt broke, happily within coasting distance of the local garage. I explained my dilemma to the proprietor who called over a mechanic and spoke to him in Welsh but with ‘fan belt’ said in English. I have therefore believed for over half a century that there is no word in Welsh for it. I know that this is absolutely not an answer to the question in the video, but I could not resist reminiscing about my only contact with the Welsh language. Sorry.
i before e except after c has more exceptions than examples
Not if you quote the whole saying.
Ceiling?
@@DarkDutch007 Red ceiling.
Weird.
Name some.
Congratulations. You just encountered a real RUclips jewels. Jay Foreman is hands down one of the funniest men on the Interwebs.
Also even as a Scot I got caught making one of the most common mistakes in Scottish place names.
Milngavie just outside Glasgow is pronounced “Mullguy”.
Its ok to get them wrong, im british born an bred and struggle with a lot of them myself lol!
Frome is Ffrwm in Welsh. The 'w' is an 'oo' sound. Two F's are an F sound and one is a 'v' sound. Hence 'Froom'. The English wrote it in weird.
In Somerset dialect (one of the Westcountry ones), initial 'f' is voiced to a 'v', so may well be 'Vroom' in local dialect? From Cornwall.
So when the kids play with toy cars they make frwm-frwm sounds
@@kernowforester811 I once read a doctoral thesis that claimed that the Mumerzet accent was the Saxon accent which is why it stretches from Somerset to Norfolk. Could be true ...
@@kernowforester811 pronounced Vroom? Birthplace of F1 champion Jenson Button, makes sense.
Same with siop. The store you buy things from. Perfectly fine in Welsh, but the sais cannot spell, so tried their best with "shop".
the celts arrived in blighty between 3500bc and 500bc. academics argue over the fine details. somebody lived here before that, but very little remains of their culture. its claimed the peoples around glastonbury, in the marshes have existed there for 5k years, but its tricky to confirm this, as they didnt tend to build stone structures.
SoGal you should watch a Fred Dibnah video. It's British industrial history with a national treasure
Did yer like that?
Love Fred sitting eating sarnies with his black hands
I would really like for you to do some videos trying British Foods.
The ones with funny names hopefully: Bubble-and-Squeak; Toad in the Hole; Spotted Dick; Jam Roly Poly.
And not one mention of Fingeringhoe....
And, yes. Clearly in Essex.
That's a couple of miles from me! People outside of the local area get Mersea wrong too, often pronouncing it 'Mer-cee' instead of 'Mer-zee'.
we have a wetwang in yorkshire as well as upperthong, penistone and even a street called butt hole road.....your move essex
@@Hugh.G.Rectionx You've got us there, only other places I can think of is Threshers Bush, and Turkey Cock Lane in Copford. Though I have been to Shitterton in Dorset :D
I did that when I was in Essex.
Just like up north we have cockermouth
Quite a few villages near me, two that come to mind. Cowbit pronounced Cubbit and Aslackby pronounced aze-el-bee
Great reactions, I love 'em. There is a really good poem for pronunciation the first two lines of which are "I take it you already know, Of tough and bough and cough and dough". You can find it online by just typing the first line into your serch engine.
It's crazy to think how much your channel has grown since these videos from a couple of years ago. I hope it continues to grow in popularity
Aye we do have sheriffs in the UK.. in Scotland a sheriff is a Judge or a sheriff’s officer is the equivalent of a debt collector, great vid though quite funny 👌🏻
A sheriff is a shire reeve but of course in the USA, they have county sheriffs which are policemen but the UK sheriff is a government official.
In England, Wales and Northern Ireland the post tends to be more "highfalutin" (like the Sheriff of Nottingham) and the title is usually used for the (largely ceremonial) High Sheriff of each county - these are (very) theoretically the monarch's own judicial representative; It's an honour role though, like the lord-lieutenant who is (again very) theoretically the monarch's personal and military representative for each county.
We do indeed! It was established by the Anglo-Saxons, along with the shire system. 👍
There were two "invasions" of Celtic language speakers to the island of Great Britain. "Invasion" tends to imply military conquest whereas these were more osmotic being through migration and trade. The first "invasion" occurred in the 7th century BC and brought the Brythonic language with them. This spread throughout the island but is today restricted to Wales (Welsh), Cornwall (Cornish) and Brittany (Breton). Cumbric and Pictish both died out in the 12th century AD. The second "invasion" occurred in the 6th century AD from Ireland and brought the Goidelic language to Great Britain. Today this language subsists in Ireland (Irish or Erse), the Isle of Man (Manx) and Scotland (Gaelic) where it replaced the Brythonic Pictish.
As a Devon girl, I had an entire childhood of petty enjoyment from knowing the crazy pronunciation of a lot of Devonshire places baffled the visitors - names like: Teignmouth (Tin-muth,) Loddiswell (Lodz-wul,) Torquay (Tor-kee) and Mousehole (Mowzul.) I knew the secret behind pronouncing Devon places; us Janners love our vowels, but only if there's not too many of them, and especially without chucking a load of consonants in between them as well... the key is to pick one or - at most! - two favourite vowels, and skip over as many consonants as possible to get to that.
And then I moved to Kent.
They seem to do things differently; they like to take their time over pronouncing their placenames. And I was the one who started getting laughed at, for trying to apply my Devonian Rules of pronunciation. So now I know that Wrotham is 'Rootum' and not 'Rothum,' Teston is 'Tee-ston' and not 'Testun,' and Leybourne is 'Lay-born' and not 'Lebburn.'
Proper job, maid!
Mousehole!, a mere 100 miles west of Devon? Also, not where shown on the Map Children's Map (Probably Cadgwith).
RUclips suggested this video to me, and I found it interesting, I am from Brighton on the South Coast of England - pronounced "Bright-un" - and the town was previously known as Brighthelmstone, Brighton starting off as an informal slang name...
Favourite quote from a exhibition at the Tate Art Gallery.
' History is a record of migration'
You cetainly don't appear to be like a typical American on RUclips , you are obviousely educated and inquisitive . I like that so have subscribed .
Also, this has nothing to do with anything, but I recommend historia civilis' series on Rome. It's fun, accessible and a good way to start learning about the end of the Republic. He has a playlist chronological in order in his channel. I recommend starting with the video on Cicero's year and going down the years, but there are other videos that explain the context, names and gouvernement positions.
We'd get a whole year of videos from SoGal with Historia Civilis lol
@@CheesyChaplin wouldn't that be amazing!
12:02 I before e except after c is disproved by science.
There are many deficiencies with it.
Map Men are magic. Lots of interesting stuff to unpack with them! Watch more. English is not a "real" language. It was a spoken language, spoken and pronounced differently in every corner of the country. French was the "official" language since the Norman conquest. When it was finally codified and rules applied.... they just picked the bits they liked and the "rules" tend to have more exceptions that break the rules than follow them. Makes it a very simple language to "get by in" and almost impossible to understand in its entirety. Bill Bryson's The Mother Tongue is the best book I have ever come across on the subject. Funny too. Loughborough LOO GA BAROO GAH instead of LUFF BRAH was always my fav.
If you're interested in learning more about the changes over time in the English language, I highly recommend the channel Nativlang, particularly their video about what English would have sounded like in Shakespeare's time. He does plenty of other videos on all sorts of languages from around the world too, so if you're interested in covering different languages on this channel then it's a great place to start! Really enjoying your videos so far! ^-^
It's times like this that I'm grateful that I managed to learn English through TV and the internet later on when I was younger.
Map men are epically fantastic. There’s only one rule for the English language, there are no rules!
Yup you pronounced Herefordshire right when you read the poster's explanation of pronunciation. Love that you want to know.
This gives you a clue as to how the UK evolved over time, and who we were invaded by etc lol
Born and now living back in Frome after a life in the military listening to my friends from around the country mis pronounce my place of birth is just normal for me now. Add my French/Swiss surname to the mix which everyone seems to struggle with and you have a life of not really being bothered by mis pronunciation at all. It just is.
Fromey here too but currently living in Bristol. At least most people here seem to know how to pronounce it but you do bump into the odd person that gets it wrong and then have that awkward moment of deciding whether to correct them or not.
Worcestershire sauce is pronounced (at least in my accent): Wuss - ter - sher
That's it. A lot easier than the way I always hear Americans always say it (workusssesssesssster-shire) 😂😂
In Worcestershire we just call it Worcester Sauce. Wuss ter. Worcestershire is pronounced wuss ter sheer.
@@fynnpark2534 I'm from Wiltshire and we pronounce it the same as you
Just say "pass the Lea & Perrins"
Remember it this way, the shire of Worcester, but just happen to forget to say the r,c and e. Also our phonetic rules come from multiple places, so we don't have hard and fast rules.
which is why English is one of the hardest to learn, but is also the most flexible
I'm disappointed that my home town, Loughborough, was shown a couple of times but not discussed.
I love bruh!
For football, it's Luff. Luff Dyno and Luff Uni. Also sometimes we use Looga, due to one American calling it Loogabarooga
@Nehemiah Scudder Lugburrer and Slug
On a few occasions I've passed the town of Brough, just off the A66. I still don't know if it's pronounced "Bruff" or "Brow" or "Broo"... or something else completely random.
@Nehemiah Scudder that's what it would be if it was Australian.
There's definitely an Essex Junction in Vermont. I've been there, it's a nice place
Great vid. If you want to learn more about the UK and its history, with the same kind of sense of humour, you should watch the BBC series 'Horrible Histories'.
Hi SoGal. I love the fact that you are looking at the shared language and heritage of the US and UK. I am also a fan of history (particularly military history) and note that you are looking to expand your voyage of discovery overseas. Can I suggest you look at the Battle of Imjin River in the Korean War to see how the difference in our uses if the English language can lead to a military disaster. Keep it up - really enjoy watching and learning with you.
Hi, I'm from Cambridgeshire in eastern England.
I'm so sorry!
Hey, ex-neighbour!
I lived in the Wisbech area for years........until my medication wore off, & I managed to escape!! 🤣🤣🤣
you should check out horrible histories its gotta be main reason loads of brits actually know loads of history, when i was a kid it was just a book but there is a tv show and its quite funny and full of interesting facts
We do have sheriff's here in UK but they have powers like bailiffs.
Unlike the USA, however, "sheriff" isn't a police rank/title. British police have the following titles: Constable, Sergeant, Inspector, Chief Inspector, Superintendent, Chief Superintendent, Deputy Chief Constable, Chief Constable.
There are also ceremonial sheriffs, eg the Sheriff of Lincoln is part of the civic party, and High Sheriffs of the counties.
In Scotland, Magistrates are called Sheriffs too.
If you're curious, Sheriff comes from the Old English word 'Scīrgerafa' which means Shire-reeve. They served a role somewhat like that of a modern police officer
You're talking about High Court Enforcement Officers. Sherriff in this case is a misnomer.
Wales is definitely another level, but it's pretty much cause the Welsh alphabet is different from English, once you have a basic understanding of the phonetics it's actually easier to guess Welsh placenames by just reading them out phonetically than it is reading English placenames that have a bunch of special exemptions to common rules and local dialect changes.
Not difficult to pronounce where I'm from. Officially its Kingston-upon-Hull but it is almost always shortened to simply, 'ull, just across the river from Grimsby actually.
There is a street here called Whitefriargate which is pronounced White-fruh-gate and off that street is a smaller one which is genuinely called, The Land of Green Ginger! Imagine that, you could actually live in a place called The Land of Green Ginger! 😊
Jay Foreman videos are excellent. Their one on the north south divide is good, and so are his politics videos such as who's incharge of Britain and why politicians never answer questions.
I want to know why is Kansas pronounced Kan-sas but Arkansas Ar-ken-saw?
Even worse, the Arkansas River is pronounced Ar-kan-sas. I think the difference is produced by whether or not English-speakers acquired the name via French-speakers or not.
They are both from a native tribe name, but Kansas came directly, while Arkansas came through French.
So do I!
For the place named Mousehole, their lifeboat crew were part of a disaster to hit the Royal National Lifeboat Institution (the charity that saves lives at sea) in 1981. The Penlee Lifeboat was based near there upto 19th December 1981 when they answered a mayday from a cargo ship named Union Star, there were no survivors from either. There was a documentary made for the 25th anniversary of the disaster called Cruel Sea: The Penlee Disaster. Its here on RUclips if you want to learn more, the RNLI btw is the worlds first sea rescue service.
I'm from Sheffield, South Yorkshire and I thought that the story about Mousehole would interest you a little.
The village of Cogenhoe in Northamptonshire. Pronounced Cook-no. Go figure
That's just evil...
That's good but I'll raise you, Happisburgh in Norfolk pronounced Hasebrough and Costessey also in Norfolk pronounced Cossy.
Try this one from my native Lincolnshire ... the village of Aslackby. A pound to a penny you get it wrong. A hint: It begins ‘ay’, the ‘s’ is pronounced ‘z’, the ‘l’ is heard and the ‘ack’ is (of course) silent. The ‘by’ as you now know is Danish denoting a Viking place name (as is my home village of Ulceby). Also in Lincolnshire, is Spital in the Street. Street reveals it’s position on a Roman road - in this case Ermine Street, which ran from Londinium (London) through Lindum Colonia (Lincoln) to Eboracum (York). The ‘spital’ is derived from the fact there was a hospital there - probably serving travellers using the Roman road.
Love this episode, but please stop the music! My brain was fighting itself as to whether to follow the music or the speech.
Just to show variety, here are some examples and their pronunciation.
Bough = Bow, cow, Cough = coff, Dough = Doh, Enough = enuff, Hough = huff or how, Lough = lock, Rough = ruff, Sough = sow, cow, now, Tough = tuff, Borough = burra, furlough = fur-low. After this it starts to get complicated. lol
Here in Devon we have Westward Ho!, the only town in the country with an ‘!’ in it..!
The one thing you can't conseptulize is that people from all over the country pronounce our names with different accents it shows you it just takes you down another rabbit hole
Always remember Scotland is different.... For one we say 'shy- ir'
Stir-lin-shy-re
Shires historically are sections of land administered by a shire-reeve, pronounced “sheriff”, as in “of Nottingham”. Or to be more accurate, of Nottinghamshire.
Depends where in Scotland you're from, I'm Glaswegian born and bred and I say shir, Refrewshir, Sturlinshir, Clackmannanshir.
Place names ending ING mark the first saxons settlements, meaning someone's tribe or people. Hence Barking means Bark's people. These settlements are usually close to the coast or large rivers, where saxons first settled
I am living in Chester and I did my Archaeology degree here. One of the digs I was involved with at Caerwys in North Wales helped prove the Romans got a lot further across towards Anglesey than originally believed. A circular buttress of the style from the time of the legion based in Chester is pretty distinctive.
It explains why there was a permanent fortress here with one of the few amphitheatres in Britain. There is a large, elliptical building that is unique to the entire Roman Empire that was absolutely massive and the height of luxury for the time. Knowing the fact that they were nearer to their goal than believed it has been suggested as a government structure designed to strike fear into anyone withstanding them.
There was a roman villa discovered in Flint while building a new housing estate, apparently there is no historical record of it ever existing and was a complete surprise
Think it was found and archaeological dig carried out around 2018, think it might have been done or sponsored by CADW, don't remember much more than that about it, but now I'm motivated to see what's out there about it, seeing as I live there lol
@@legion162 I heard about that one! I was at Caerwys in 2016/17 and was meant to go on a 'rescue' dig in 2018 but my health prevented it. I wasn't made aware of where it was, just that it was in the North East of Wales. Anything discovered during construction is considered 'rescue' simply because it needs to be recorded and excavated immediately before it gets destroyed or damaged.
@@Mrs.Fezziwig there was a recent, think last summer, partial/little dig at Ewloe Castle, apparently some interesting things going on there, and very recently the big church at the very top of Mold High Street, again I believe that they discovered that the place had much older origins than was first thought.
Anyways, how mad is it we both commenting on video by an American woman, we live 10ish miles apart and have an interest in archeology, talk about getting side tracked 🤣🤣
@@legion162 it is so cool to find someone so nearby and into archaeology, I agree. I know the church you mean, I lived in Rhydymyn for a few months in 2006. I knew from the Daniel Owen (sorry if I've got that wrong) Centre that the church was rumoured to be on important archaeology, that they got it dug is fantastic! Shame there wasn't a lost king buried there.
We have lots around the Bedworth area (Bedduth) including ... Styvichale , which is said as "sty-chull". Cheylesmore "Charles-more", Pinwall, "pin-ull".
Worcester is pronounced like Wooster ... Like rooster. So worcestershire is like Wooster shire.
Not really like the 'oo' in rooster, more like the 'u' in put.
@@lordlazza in my accent put, rooster, and Wooster are all the exact same sound 🤷
It's not "shire" it's more like "shur".
@@c4715 i know but i was only commenting on the pronunciation of the worcester part...
In North Kent there is the remains of the ancient forest and the North Downs Way (pilgrimage route) called ‘Trosley country park’ spelt Trottiscliffe. I live just a few miles away and did not learn this until I visited it. Keeps life interesting.
The only reason that you can't mispronounce words in Latin, is that we have no idea how it was ever pronounced.
Yes we do :)
We can’t know 100%, you’re correct. But I was taught that Latin scholars can decipher the pronunciations to a certain extent. But just like all languages, pronunciation can change and there’s a generally accepted way of speaking Latin today...so that’s mostly what I was referring to.
That's not true at all
Yes we do. We know from how other languages - German for instance - came to spell words of Latin origin. "Caesar", for instance, would have been pronounced in Latin with a "hard" C - so in German the word becomes "Kaiser". There are dozens of examples. What's confusing is that in the Middle Ages ecclesiastical scholars took it upon themselves to "Italianise" much original Latin - adding all those pretty accents schoolboys like me despaired of ever learning.
@@aw6936 : Yet the same word has different pronunciations from different areas of Europe.
Tsar for the Russians
Caesar with a soft C in Britain despite English having close links to German.
Until someone invents a time machine arguments over Latin are always going to exist.
Great presentation. I'm a big fan of Jay Foreman, I love the lightning pace and clever wit.
The differences with the suffix "cester" eg. Worcester (pron. "wooster") and Cirencester (pronounced as seen)
remind me of Arkansas ("Arkansaw") vs Arkansas City where the Arkansas is pronounced as seen ...though the locals just call it "Ark City".
a lot of people believe the Celts are from mainly Scotland Ireland Wales and part of Cornwall! The Celts are not a race as such but a number of individual tribes that spoke a similar language and were spread across most of Northern Europe and Spain!
You're starting to grow on me i like your voice it's kind of soothing
Hi, You stopped the Map Men just before the Advert, these are well worth watching, very funny and often related to he main video.
8:37 that is annoying for someone with hippopotomonstrosesquipedaliophobia (fear of long words)
Just found you today.
The funny Map Men have been a must for a yr since lockdown started. Now A few recommendations, Lindybeige, he does all sorts that will help you and his sponsorship adverts are funny too.
Travel Tim is a relative of J. Forman, also funny but lives in French France.
Adventures and Naps, Alanna's done the place names and used Google translate and her reactions to the spoken name is hilarious as is her tasting alcoholic drinks and sweets.
Wandering Ravens you will like and have also covered this and other stuff..... you can tell I'm stuck at home can't you 🙂
Will look at your other vlog work.
Enjoyed this one btw.
Dave if Liverpool, Merseyside.
Love the content you post, you delve deeper than most to find the real meanings of well everything you look into, you also genuinely try with the pronunciation of place names, you do beat yourself up far too much for the smallest error, if you were ever to visit the UK by all means visit London but don't make it your main destination, further north is less expensive by a long way, the old buildings are much older generally and many are free or much cheaper to visit, York is a good city to visit, it was the capitol of England long before London ever was and is a genuine Roman city so much older than London too, the city walls are still intact and you can walk along the top of them either for free or at little cost, even the old buildings and roads are still in public use as shops etc with roads that are 3-4ft wide so no traffic.
Keep up with the great content and thank you for the time and effort that you put in to making it :)
Oh almost forgot, say Hi to Roger for me :)
8:37 the official name is Llanfairpwllgwyngyll
Names of places change depending how you talk also. Local slang can become part of a descriptions in the UK. Where I live is York ... but my village is 3 miles from the City Centre and is called Acomb, The name Acomb .. pronounced " A - Come " comes directly from the Roman name for York ... which was Eboracum ... Breaking that down .... you find Acum in the name. but along the east coast the locals there say I would come from " Yacum Sand Holes " ... because Acomb is truly one giant Sand pit that was created by the Ice Age. So there you have a little local history of how our name came to be. Thank you for sharing your video and Greetings from York. England. Yes` that is the rainy part of the planet.
Good stuff, always interesting ,keep safe and well over there...E
As a brit, my favorite locally hard to pronounce name is Cogenhoe, which is pronounced cook-no.
Welsh is a lovely language and so much older than English. It’s worth learning a few words of for interest. They have been on this island much longer than us English, they have an ancient poetic tradition and consonants that change in mysterious ways. There is also good reason that they resisted Roman rule! The Welsh alphabet is visually similar to English but has different consonant and vowel sounds and no “X”. Have a look at some Welsh speakers on RUclips, you’ll be fascinated.
An interesting example is Southwick.
The place on the outskirts of Brighton is pronounced south - wick whereas the place outside of Portsmouth from where Eisenhower gave D-day the final go ahead is pronounced suth-irk
wales is on another level ,sez she. we are all doomed... this demographic is, " we all say y'all in the mall." bollocks, at all ?.
That Welsh place with the long name, its just a local joke developed to draw tourism.
The real place name is very much shorter.
How come Arkansas is pronounced with 'saw' at the end????
If you enjoyed learning about how to pronounce British place names you might like the historyofenglishpodcast.com/ podcast. It covers the complete history of the english language and is told in an interesting way woven into the history of Britain. I'm British and I learnt lots from listening. I believe it is produced by an American.
So, is it Hey-sham or Heys-ham?
(I think I know myself, because I have been listening to Manx Radio.)
I love the dotty map showing the language influences. It's brilliant.
The North pronounces words differently to the South, and the East is different to the West. The Midlands is different to everybody. And that's just England!!!
Place names are inherited from the past. So will have varying influences from the peoples ruling at that time, modified by the attempts of later people to cope with an unfamiliar tongue.
Celtic, Latin, Anglo-Saxon, Norman-French. Most of these Languages have very little in common