Spec-ing cheap caps is so amateur hour. I worked at the factory for a very famous studio equipment manufacturer in 1976. They just about destroyed their reputation by using cheap tin IC sockets. I objected loudly enough to this practice that a potential buyer heard me, completely by mistake. The only reason I wasn’t fired was because I was right, and they made the change to gold machine-pin sockets soon after. The parts cost of improving this $35k product was maybe $100-200. A lesson I’ll never forget.
Standing up to crap practices at work got me the reputation that I was a good leader and 1 promotion. After that standing up got me ignored then fired. For basically the same issue. Just showed me the promotion was to shut me up and get me to drink the koolaid. Didn’t work and I learnt a valuable lesson
@@mknewlan67 I hope that someday you find a company who takes growth and continuous improvement seriously and treasures you as a result (if you haven’t found somewhere like that already)
A mid-90s Pontiac Bonneville broke down when the *plastic* fitting connecting the radiator to the bottom of the engine block broke. When I got it towed in to a dealer, they told me the Oldsmobile part for the identical engine was metal but refused to put the Oldsmobile part in my Bonneville. An elbow fitting with threads on one end. How much savings could there possibly have been? Clearly the bean counters didn’t pay any attention to its function. No water => no worky. 2001 BMW Z3 original water pump impeller was plastic. At least BMW’s replacement part acknowledged the problem and had a metal impeller. One point I’m trying to make is that plastic is wonderful stuff for many applications, just not these. Another is the insanity of saving pennies on parts that are vital to the basic function of the product. Like filter caps in an amplifier…
@@judgegroovyman ... look at McIntosh audio equipment. Still built like a big block V-8 these days. They even wind their own transformers and burn in each unit before shipment. OTOH, they are a few notches above consumer grade, and you pay for that.
My feeling is we as consumers deserve to be treated with more respect. Saving a dollar an amp and making the amps fail is just disrespecting us as consumers.
@@smoochie3331 It's a few things, and I don't think we disagree. China is a country (where ethics and quality often. mean nothing), but there's an accompanying mindset that got US mfrs to go there - more profit for shareholders. And what that also drives is lower prices for consumers. Consumers too often choose on the basis of price alone. Could some US mfrs have resisted this? Maybe not. The high priced better quality stuff would lose out at retail. People what low price when they're buying, and high quality when it breaks down. That can't be easily resolved. It's the old story. We want fast, cheap and good, but we can never have all 3. Two at the most.
I spent a long time in R&D at a major telecom equipment developer. One other problem with silver solder is the possibility of silver migration. An electric field between two points will cause silver molecules to move from one point to another, eventually causing a short circuit. Of course it doesn't last long but can cause damage when present.
I just had a 2002 USA made Deluxe Reverb opened up for a bias adjustment of new tubes after the original Groove Tubes started blowing the fuse, and it was perfect on the inside. No heat damage, no bad capacitors, no bad solder joints. The IC caps were perfect other than testing out at values that were starting to get close to being out of tolerance. On the contrary, I had a 2003 USA made Hod Rod Deluxe on the bench for a friend of mine and all of the IC capacitors were completely shot-bulging and in really really bad shape. It needed a full cap job. The grid resistors had completely cooked the circuit board as well (as was expected). So the QC changes came while Fender was still building these in Corona, but only very soon before production was moved to Ensenada. I really like this era of Fender amps, particularly the Blues Deluxe and Hot Rod Deluxe because they have a really nice midrange to their sound, but I would not buy one without seeing a gut shot first. These are getting old enough that those caps are ticking time bombs if they haven’t blown already, and the circuit boards have a very real chance of being completely cooked by those resistors. They MUST be inspected before buying. Period.
The elephant in the closet is not the lead free solder but that Fender cheaped out (in both the US and Mexican versions of this amp) by mounting the tube sockets directly to the circuit board instead of the amp chassis.
Lead free solder has a higher melting point which would be an asset if heat were the only problem but the issue is that the components get hot and then get cold - and metal expands and contracts. Lead free solder is mostly tin and it is more brittle - lead alloys deform rather than crack to a degree. You still get cracked joints with leaded solder but it takes more cycles. The best solution is to design for less heat - which is tricky with valves because they are power components, at least in some cases.
There was a major counterfeit problem with electrolytic capacitors that lasted for years. It was mainly noted for causing the failure of a very large number of computer motherboards. If a faulty cap hadn't blown completely yet, you could often see it swelling at the top.
To imply lead free solder causes failure is misleading. There are many different formulations for LF solder. Some have high, some have low melting points; Some are brittle, some are not. The particular type used in an application (such as on tube socket pins) greatly affects reliability. There is no shortage of failed equipment assembled with lead solder, too. If the formulation of solder isn't matched to the application, whether leaded or lead-free, then a joint could fail.
I used to work in a restaurant chain, we were ordered by our managers, on request by the Accountant never to throw away food, even if it could make people sick. As soon as the managers left, we threw all the expired food in the trash!
I used to work in a restaurant too. Whoever came up with that policy would have been dismissed instantly where I worked. That's such a stupid solution. The proper solution is to buy in proper quantities and to use the food up. Get rid of the people who are creating the waste. This makes absolutely no sense on any level.
Lol, my dad used to work in a family owned grocery store. He said half rotten fruit NEVER got pitched. The good parts were salvaged to make fruit salad.
It's simple to fix. Simply redesign such that the valves are pointing UP, not down. It's not a surprise that the solder fails. It's not the solder per-se. It's the heat cycles that are put through the board. The heat from the valves rises and cooks the sockets and the board. Then, when the amp is powered off it all cools down and contracts. The solder joints break due to the constant expansion and contraction. Ridiculous design, and all the amp manufacturers have been doing it for decades. Point the valves UPWARDS and let the heat escape into the atmosphere for goodness sake!
its best just to use the old style sockets and divorce the tube from the PCB if you must use a PCB. But in this case, there isn't much on the PCB....it all fly's on those crappy ribbon cables over to the main board. The cables are not socketed and its stupid to run the wires in parallel like that.......obviously designed by somebody that went to school where they taught low voltage digital technology and not the old school obsolete technology. GO design computers and stay away from designing vacuum tube audio amplifiers.......>>>>>>cracked circuit boards were the nemesis in the transition to solid state and the modern PCB's with traces back in the day......other than bad solder joints coming out of the factory assembly line. I go way back as my father was an RCA dealer and we did service as part of the business.
@@mikecamps7226 Exactly, and spot on with everything you stated here. Ribbon cables have no damn place whatsoever in a musical instrument amplifier, for one thing. The potential for "crosstalk" is raised that much more, which leads to a host of more headaches. It's not that I have "bias" (pardon the pun, LOL!) against a PC board amp, they can be built correctly and with quality components, workmanship, and PC boards along with them. It's why Soldano amps are known for their fantastic sound, ruggedness, and reliability. Yes, you pay for that, but you also pay to avoid all the headaches of cheap crap. Hell, I owned a Blackheart Little Giant 5 watt amp, and to me, it was built very well, when I saw the traces on the PC board ( yes, I know...copper plated, not 100% copper) and the well laid out components, I knew what made it so good sounding. And yes, sadly, I sold it. To me, that little guy was the best amp I ever had.
I don't disagree. If the amp has the controls on the bottom, like a Marshal, that's easy. But if it has the controls on the top, you end up having to do some contortions that result in a more expensive chassis if you try to make the tubes point up.
I always use lead free solder in my diy builds. Pedals mixers etc. You can buy a cheap verion with 0.4% silver, which is terrible and won't flow, needs more heat to flow and takes longer to set, causing issues with weak joints and component damage. You can also buy, which I do, 4%silver. This flows well, has a slightly higher melting point and takes very little time to adjust to using. It is well over 5 times the price though. I personally wouldn't use anything else. But then again I don't have share holders to pamper and I'm not trying to trade on my good name with slip shod construction.
@@russellhltn1396 You do the contortions as required for wiring. Mounting tubes inverted causes overheating of the sockets and stresses the internals of the tube. Very poor engineering.
Design to cost is across engineering, production, procurement and ends in finance. If top quality components were used sales might have to explain and prove the sonic superiority and longer life (maybe with longer warranties) of the amp. Bottom line is profit. Manufacturer has to make 100% or more profit selling to distribution, distribution makes X% selling to retail, retail has to make some margin but is often required to sell at a fixed price. Same for hi-fi industry. Great video, points well taken.
Over time since the transition to lead free, the solder formulas have improved dramatically. Back in the early days the stuff had multiple phase transitions, would barely wet, wouldn’t flow well even when it was done right. This led to a lot of solder defects while the formulations and processes adjusted, but things are _much_ better now.
@@PsionicAudio They may not be using the top shelf stuff, but *nobody* wants to use that dreck from 2007 era. It’s not worth it because it’s just that bad.
They also need to use MUCH higher temperatures for lead free. If you use the same temperatures used for lead based solder you will not get good joints. Many through hope components were not designed for lead free specifically.
@@johnjoyce The melting point of lead-free solder isn't that much higher than that of lead based. Using much higher temperatures brings a whole lot of issues. First: You get a much steeper temperature gradient within the joint, which can result in your solder oxidizing to the point it won't flow before the entire joint has reached working temperature. If you rely on the flux in the solder, that can burn off before it reaches the contacts on the circuit board, leaving oxide layers in the joint. Much higher temperatures also increase the risk that the glue that keeps the metal on the circuit board disintigrates during the soldering process. In my experience the best way to work with lead free solder is to work at the same temperature you would use with leaded solder (how hot that is depends on the thermal mass of the joint relative to the thermal mass of the soldering tip), prep the joints with liquid flux (not relying on the flux in the solder allows for soldering technique that wouldn't work if you rely solely on the flux in the solder), and most importantly: slow down a bit. Taking your time is particularly important if your solder is not eutectic - which applies to most of the cheaper lead-free options. Non-eutectic solders don't go straight from solid to liquid (or vice versa), but pass through a stage in which it has "doughy" consistency. And going from liquid into that doughy consistency is what happens when you add too much solder too quickly to the joint. That's a pain to deal with, because you're looking at unpredictable temperature gradients within the joint, which can result in voids and bubbles in the joint, that take experience to recognize and skill to fix. I think a lot of the problems attributed to lead free solder are actually the result of people not knowing how to handle the stuff.
I just recently ordered a Blues Deluxe made in 1995 in Brea California. Im hoping and praying its all good. I had a 1st generation HRD that was great and ive had two from the 2000s fail me so we with see how this one does. I have a 45 day return option so ill make sure to check and test it thoroughly.
Currently sitting in my studio surrounded by 6 Fender amps all purchased new. 5 have been recapped after 3 years. I also had a late 90's Twin and a Bassman reissue that were also recapped within 3 years. Fender amps have sucked for decades. My Made in China Vox AC15 and my 90's PV Classics have been flawless. If it weren't for the fact that clients like to see the Fender name plate when they check out the studio I wouldn't own one of them.
Just checked my recently purchased blues Jr pcbs. I saw black solder mask. So I won't be able to check pcb overtemp visually without pulling the pcb now and looking at the other side...but I'm sure that's a coincidence ;)
Thank you for calling out the component quality and especially the solder, jacks, pots. I remember the tweeds in the 90s breaking for the same reasons of cheap pots cheap jacks and mounting the tubes the way they did with PCBs and solder joints taking direct stress for much of this. I saw plenty of repairs to their solder joints then. These lovely amps didn’t handle gig commutes via pickup trucks well.
i asked my friend who worked at fender usa what the difference was in guitars...his response? usa gets first wood choice and a coupla hundred miles lol...he did add that the usa guitars have better electronics but that the manufacturing was pretty much the same...that was 15 years ago though and things may have changed since then
@@alanmarcum2044 Right! Your on to it. Its not just finance, its the entire corporation lol. The entire company will have different departments pulling the product in different oftentimes non-productive directions for various reasons. I work in big corporate America so I live this shit every day haha.
The fact is, that Fender amps are awesome sounding amps. Most of them sound best when played clean, some have a beautiful gain-crunch sound. It absolutely does not matter, if these Amps are MiM, MiUS or MiC or made in somewhere else. In the last 50 years I learned by experience that Fender is Fender not more, not less. Amps that are in constant use, break down sometimes, which is normal. Therefore every amps needs maintainance and some care. Some old solid states from the US do have little issues with resistors or cacitors, but nothing wild to repair. Chinese Fenders often have issues with the cheap electronic components like transistors, resistors or potis. Nothing difficult and cheap in maintainance. So: no problems at all. The tube amp reissues are all great and they should never be compared with an original classic amp. Why? Natural aging of the materials changes the sound considerably. I own some Mexican, US and China fenders amps and they all sound "Fender". My latest toy is a China Frontman 212 R. This was a cheap beast when sold new, it is a solid state and they are cheap in the preowned market. But: Fender sounds like Fender. Every Fender Amp range has slice little differences in intonation. Nothing to care about. If used in a band context, it suddenly does no more matter at all, because some sound characters are "eaten" by the other band instruments. But it always can be herared that there is a Fender being played. Fenders can do Hardrock, Metal, Punk or whatever that is played in gain or hi-gain, but Fenders have their roots in Jazz, Blues, Country, Rock´n Roll, Rockabilly, Funk and Soul music. For the rest there are other brands out there. In my already long life I played Marshall, Orange, Vox, Cort, Hughes & Kettner, Hohner, Echolette, Vermona, even Harley Benton amps, Gibson, H&H, Alesis and some other amps but finally to play authentic oldschool Rock´n Roll, Rockabilly, Country+Western, Blues and Alternative Country, I came back to Fender amps. No matter where they are made, absolutely no matter, a Fender is a Fender and can only be replaced by a Fender. Please stop this IMHO useless discussion that the country of making them matters. It doesn´t matter. May Fender sellers or collectors tell you all these myths and stories abour the origin of the make, it´s bullshit. Play testing as many of Fenders that you can, never look at their country of origin and you for sure will find the one that suits you. I love all of my Fender amps and I don´t care where they are made.
Great point on the caps, and I love your channel. Please help me understand how the heat affects lead-free solder more, given that lead-free solders melt at higher temperatures of about 217°C/422°F compared to 183°C/361°F for the lead-based? Is there another factor in play?
From a guitarists standpoint, the MIM Blues Junior has a much brighter, cleaner tone, while the original USA model is darker-toned and does not get the Fender "sparkle", and the reverb is also weaker in the USA (Green Board) models. For MY purposes (and maybe not yours), the Cream Board Mexico version gives me a great sound, while the USA version may be ok for mellow Jazz, etc, but not for Blues, Swing, Country, etc.. However, I just got a Princeton Reverb, and have pretty much retired the BJ to my backup amp.!
Absolutely! I'm an engineer and just yesterday I had a scream fight with an accountant that was trying to tell me how to work. These people are asshats and a plight in humanity. Jesus I'm still raging. What a short sighted imbecile. Such an asshole.
"The 2000's" is a very broad time range since this is 2022. I own and regularly use a Fender Pro Blues Jr. that I bought about 2014. As nears I can tell lead free solder mandates were decided on 2010-2014 and went in to effect about 2015. My amp was assembled about 2013. I looked inside and my amp has the IC caps. Sorry about those built later.
Here's a perspective on this possibly nobody else here has. I've been a guitar guy/player for decades but recently I added a new skillset to keep myself challenged. I plunged into mixing and DJ sets . Controllers, DDJs and CDJs, turntables and decks. (Honestly I recommend it as something new, for someone whos already a musician as an easy transition into something else musical - honestly it doesnt take much skill or effort). The thing with DJ gear is that its all faders, dials and pots and the pots in particular get a hammering far more intense than an amp. I'm coming up against dry solder fails in multiple pots as gear gets older (high/low pass filters in particular). Any problems that guitar players will face with amps will be ten times worse for DJs and their equipment. Im not saying DJs are musical idiots (that's for you guys to debate), but most of those guys tend to hang off the same specific post and sliders like a monkey swinging on it's favourite bar over and over. The dangers of being a one trick pony i guess.
You know the accountants are the difference when the cheaper brand of amplifier is using the higher quality of the Filter caps. I'll never forget being in college jazz band, and a fellow guitar player had scrimped and saved to get his first real tube amp - a 4x10 Hot Rod Deville. Not a cheap amp for a college student. The amp failed on his 2nd rehearsal with it. We never saw that amp again.
I bought a used (but in excellent condition) Blues Jr. 3 a few weeks ago. $319.00 w/original cover. Black tolex, green board, May 2015, Mexico, Patriot 'Cannabis Rex' Eminence spkr. Prior owner removed C3…..and added a bias at R51 and R52. They may have done more mods but I can’t tell. C25: 450V 47mf…….other 3 caps: 450V 22mf. All 4 are grey IC brand. Amp sounds pretty good. Might do a Fromel or BillM mod………maybe. (Like your videos!)
Did a Fromel on my BJ,sounds fantastic.Gave the amp to my cousins son on good faith,he pawned the goddamn thing,I didn’t know he had a drug problem.Been wishing for that amp for a while,I also installed a warehouse speaker,that was a one of a kind blues jr.Oh well.
Exactly. Management hires engineers specifically to find cheaper ways to make things. Sometimes this leads to a better, more efficient design, but more often than not it leads to poor quality that has very little margin to failure hidden where no one can see.
But Fender will gladly spend the money on marketing instead. I’ve been anti-Fender since 2015 because of unneeded price hikes. I bought a $600 Yamaha that blows $2000 Fenders away QC wise. At this point every other company builds better Teles and Strats than Fender does.
I tried out a few Fenders at a shop here in Zurich, Switzerland last summer and 4 out of 5 Fender amps had issues on the showroom floor. One of them started out ok and died on me within the first minute. I was going to get a deluxe reverb reissue, but after that experience, and some research, I bought a Dr Z. I also have a MIM Blues Jr IV. It sounds great. I’ve opened it up twice, and changed speakers twice. Like IKEA furniture, I don’t think the amp will survive being taken apart and put back together another two times. I am creating new holes to screw in the speaker because the speaker screw holes in the baffle board are stripped out. The pieces aren’t fitting as tight as they used to. “Why don’t the pieces fit?” Tool
Looks so cheap and flimsy under the hood. Hard to imagine these amps standing up to road use. My old Sears Silvertone, all point-to-point wiring, which I used to think was cheap because of the department store name, towers above these Fender branded throw-away toys.
Unless you can take a backup valves are a pain for gigging. A mosfet amp sounds great. In bar situations with poor acoustics and background noise, the valvey goodness does not really shine through. I spent some time in a shop, we would sit in the back sipping tea and polishing frets. The game was guitar and amp being played out front. We would often get the right guitar, rarely the amp.
@@andrewfrancis3591 it's the old catch 22. A tube amp can be quickly fixed if a tube fails, a mosfet goes and you're boned. Of course the mosfet amp is far less likely to fail in the first instance.
@@slidey1788 Still got my Selmer Thunderbird twin 30. It goes to the occasional jam. When I can find some young herbert to lift it. I retired it from gigging back in the 80s. I love valves like a vintage car.
Thank you for this video. Our early 2000 amps are pushing 20 years now. I have a Mexico cream board which I felt sounded better than the USA. I will keep an eye on the soldier and caps. :)
I'm late to the party as usual, but I bought one of the original green board BJs in 2000 to play harmonica through after my original '65 Princeton Reverb got stolen. :( It sucked for harmonica. I mean royally sucked. There were design issues that Fender never acknowledged (to avoid a recall) and is why the board was redesigned (to the "cream board"). The input traces on the original circuit board were too close together and caused massive feedback under high gain and made the amp pretty much unusable for amplified harmonica like the Princeton. I did all the "BillM" mods from a now-defunct website that made the amp usable for guitar, but still sucked for harmonica so I ended up selling the amp to a guitarist. Funny thing is I know several harmonica players who swear by the newer cream board BJs.
My Hotrod is a US made one, didnt make it any more reliable haha !! But none of the issues on the US were solder joints and I cannot say that about the Mexican built ones ive owned.
So I guess the obvious questions is, and forgive me if this has already been explained elsehwere: can the newer amp be upgraded to the older specs so that it WILL last longer without the issues you're talking about here?
I would suggest that the accountants will have insisted the designers design in a way to prevent that. Every so often a round plug becomes a square one or a 3 pin plug becomes a 4 pin plug.
Great video, thank you for uploading! I have a made in Mexico Blues Junior (lacquered tweed), this is a really useful video but is this a full shopping list of remedial work that is needed to a Blues Junior or is there anything else you'd recommend? . . . Also, have you any contacts for a good Amp Tech you'd trust in the Midlands of UK (long shot, but worth a try!)? :)
Thanks. Input jack,, filters, up the screen grids to 1K, cool the bias, reflow the solder joints on pots and tube sockets, replace the 1N4006s with 1N4007s, replace the molded plastic speaker cable, remove bright cap, enjoy amp. Roland Lumby is fantastic. I think he's in Manchester or Birmingham.
Marvellous!! Thank you, so much. I’ve found Roland on Facebook, he’s about 2.5hrs away from me, but will give him a call and try and plan a reason why I need to go to Manchester!
Companies (just like car companies) whom are public, and some which are private have an obligation to both management, board members, and or shareholders to keep costs as low as possible. One way they do this is by making the electronics in them just good enough to make it through the warranty period, and then if they fail, then they've spent exactly the amount required to build the product - anymore is considered wasteful spending. Their reputation does get it, but it depends on how much that matters to them at the time. Fender is also making a lot more money through other channels so their hardware isn't nearly as important for money making as it was. Younger musicians are also not as concerned as most of them won't be famous, nor really concerned if their equipment dies in 5 or so years like the older ones were. It's also sadly that we've come to accept our equipment being less robust over time because of the nature of the modern economy and throw away culture.
I opened my "blond Vibrolux made in 1995" and it is amazing quality. Many more wires, to start with. This electronic engineer, who customises amps, told me he was impressed with the quality and said these amps can't be found nowadays unless you spend over 3000 dollars/euros. He made a few upgrades and rewired it a bit too. You can see a video on my channel.
Can you please recommend me what speaker/amp to buy to use with my Studiologic digital piano? A speaker that could fit in a avenger car trunk to be used for outdoor playing.. what brand makes high quality long lasting ones today? 🙏🙏🙏
Great video Lyle finally an honest answer on the made in USA versus Mexico fender amp. Why does my Blues Deville 1994 not have a Bias pot but my Hot Rod Deville 1996 4x10 have one just curious or maybe I over looked it
Current Vox amps use lead-free solder and have been for many years - even well before the AC10C1 was released. This should not cause any concern over the life of the tubes used in the amp. There are no service bulletins released for any of the Vox products noting any issues specifically relating to the use of no-lead solder. Thank you, be safe, and have a great weekend. Best regards, Korg USA Product Support
I wasn't talking Korg/Vox. They tend to be much better built than the Blues Juniors. That said, I've encountered plenty of faulty lead-free solder joints in Korg products over the past 20 years. Not all problens get service bulletins.
I recently bought a fender pro jr and am not sure if it was made in Mexico or USA it is a green board 2005 but other than that nothing, how can I determine where it was made? Since does not have serial ni or any other information
Would Nichicon Fine Gold caps be a decent enough replacement for the IC one’s? I’ve got tons of those stocked up in different values. I’ve got a 2009 Peavey Classic 20 MH (Made in China) I believe have those same smaller IC caps.
They would work, but their ripple current rating is pretty average. My go-to electrolytic caps are F&T for larger values, or Panasonic FM/FC/FR for smaller
sorry dude but lead free or not even soloder with lead joints will crack etc , with tin or lead free solder well that shit does not stick very well and is not a very good conductor at all , i have been an electronics tech for over 40 years and i have see all the changes over the years and sold with a hi percentage of lead or all lead is best either way but tin is pointless and grabadge, quaility of parts like your caps resistors and so on is also a huge deal. but you also need proper ventolation as well expaicially anything with tubes needs really good ventolation and should also include a fan as should even solid state keep the heat low and you have alot less problems to. also to make another point we are a mass production society and as such the process in making stuff and doing solder work as an example is less and less done buy humans and more by the run on the belt and dip and go process tho is not a bad process but it gets also of errors that would not happen with a human .. computers are no different really less human contact more robots more defects happen and more waste as well. but things have to be this way because of demand and also cost cutting as well to make things afforable to .. i prefer hi lead content solder and as long as i can buy it ill use it over anything else
Early US made HRDs had leaded solder. Current Mexican ones lead free. I don't know when the change was implemented. Both use the same cheap caps and overheated low voltage supply.
I'm kind of shocked at seeing how cheap the PCB looks compared to a Peavey for example. Although it does look like they didn't skimp on the PCB's for the tube sockets. It just looks exactly like the same cheap PCB in the 10W solid state practice amps that Fender make.
I noticed that also. My cheapo second hand Blackheart and Peavey amps are way better made with better PCB's and components. All have been used and abused and still sound great.
Peaveys were always built like tanks. Ask any rehearsal center and they will tell you Peaveys can take a lot more abuse than other amps. Too bad they are downsizing, looks like they have too much competition from Line6, Boss Katana and other cheap amps.
Good to remember when your negotiating a price on a 'Reissue' Amp.... It's not worth the retail price if you're gonna wind up shelling out hundreds of dollars for an amp tech to redo the caps and solder in two years! Be sure to get extended warranty's!
Lead free solder SUCKS. Even the best of plumbers had a big learning curve soldering copper after the switch. In that field products are getting more reliable. Hopefully the same in electronics.
There was decades of experience working with tin/lead solder, learning how to deal with the problems it might have had. I imagine those problems will get sorted through with tin/silver in time.
But this is generally true for everything though, people are always critical of cheap Chinese and Mexican products and have the opinion that the manufacturers in these countries produce low quality products, sure they do, but they only do that because that is what they are asked to produce, as a western importer and distributer you could go to China and meet with a manufacturer and get whatever level of quality for your product that you require and are prepared to pay for, Western countries are flooded with low quality Chinese (and Mexican) made products because Western importers and distributors order/buy/import these products and sell them for big profits, that is where the big money is made, large volumes of cheap crappy products for the masses.
THIS needs to be better exposed. This is the WM model. They called it “advocating” for consumers by “keeping prices down” when in reality it was giving the retailers larger profit margins by forcing “quality” out of the picture almost entirely then falsely representing the end result. Corporations are not your friends AND they certainly are NOT people.
@@51bbob Yes exactly, the big chain retailers of low cost products, we all know who they are there's no real need to say their names, they hide themselves and the actual facts quietly in the shadows behind the bullshit notion that not only are countries like China and Mexico flooding the west with crap products but they steal your manufacturing jobs as well, when the reality is that everything from these countries is made on order and to the quality specifications that their customers ordered, and their customers are the importers and owners of our friendly big chain stores. It's a big con like just about everything these days.
Leo fender was known for ALWAYS trying to decrease the cost of his stuff. Some call that value for the money, some other call that social responsibility. But NO, fender’s number priority has never been quality. I know, I how plenty of their guitars and amps…
Cheap Cap's and usually on the voltage edge. It's a shame because a little bit oversized Cap can make All the difference in reliability especially with the modern voltage surge's. The price of Cap's over 500 VDC is outrageous ! It's getting insane what they want for them. It's all just a rip off scam. Corporate is always looking to save a few bucks. Tubes Are little nuclear reactors !
I still have the original 40 year old caps in my fender. Yes, theoretically they should be changed I know. But they still test ok and are in as new physical condition. Maybe it helps that the amp gets played every day in a stable temperature environment.
My question is, if IC capacitors are really *that* bad, then why does Fender use some of them in their handwired Custom Shop amps? I am not a tech but I have a hard time believing that Fender would specify certain awful parts alongside other fine components for their best amplifiers (at top-dollar prices).
Because their hand wired custom shop amps are usually not very good. Notice they used Sprague Atoms in the EC tweed series. But they messed up the EC Tremolux circuit pretty drastically.
I spent a lot of time and money on modifications and maintaining 3 Blues Juniors with my friend and amp tech in the 2000's. They all were sinking ships and I got rid of them all even though I liked their tone a lot. We did a lot of the BillM mods but they still failed. Ultimately my tech friend said absolutely no more circuit board amps! I can't blame him. I then started to go back to point-to-point older amps with much less maintenance. Fender 75's are great if you can find them. Circuit boards amps seem so unreliable and sketchy. My friend Ultimately felt sorry for me and gave me a couple of old 40's to 60's Bogen PA heads modded for guitar and they have great tone and have been bullet proof in the reliability department. Circuit board amps are not for me.
You can't form a real opinion of circuit board amps from a Blues Junior. Like forming your opinion of fried chicken based on only ever having had mcnuggets. '70s-'83 Marshalls all use PCBs, are correctly viewed as fantastic amps, and are prone to none of the flaws of the Blues Junior. Suhr, Diezel, Metropoulos, Soldano, Bogner, even some Friedmans, etc. The list of great amps using well designed high quality PCBs is long.
@@PsionicAudio I definitely wish I had known about the "fried chicken" amps...would probably have been happier spending a little more money out the gate buying a higher quality amp. McNugget is a good description of the BJ. Good to know there are reliable PCB amps out there. I probably spent the same amount in mods and repairs versus buying a higher quality amp in the first place. I am tempted to look into a Vox AC15C1. I like your videos and how honest and informative they are. Thanks!
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Spec-ing cheap caps is so amateur hour. I worked at the factory for a very famous studio equipment manufacturer in 1976. They just about destroyed their reputation by using cheap tin IC sockets. I objected loudly enough to this practice that a potential buyer heard me, completely by mistake. The only reason I wasn’t fired was because I was right, and they made the change to gold machine-pin sockets soon after. The parts cost of improving this $35k product was maybe $100-200. A lesson I’ll never forget.
Standing up to crap practices at work got me the reputation that I was a good leader and 1 promotion. After that standing up got me ignored then fired. For basically the same issue. Just showed me the promotion was to shut me up and get me to drink the koolaid. Didn’t work and I learnt a valuable lesson
@@mknewlan67 I hope that someday you find a company who takes growth and continuous improvement seriously and treasures you as a result (if you haven’t found somewhere like that already)
A mid-90s Pontiac Bonneville broke down when the *plastic* fitting connecting the radiator to the bottom of the engine block broke. When I got it towed in to a dealer, they told me the Oldsmobile part for the identical engine was metal but refused to put the Oldsmobile part in my Bonneville. An elbow fitting with threads on one end. How much savings could there possibly have been? Clearly the bean counters didn’t pay any attention to its function. No water => no worky.
2001 BMW Z3 original water pump impeller was plastic. At least BMW’s replacement part acknowledged the problem and had a metal impeller.
One point I’m trying to make is that plastic is wonderful stuff for many applications, just not these. Another is the insanity of saving pennies on parts that are vital to the basic function of the product. Like filter caps in an amplifier…
@@judgegroovyman ... look at McIntosh audio equipment. Still built like a big block V-8 these days. They even wind their own transformers and burn in each unit before shipment. OTOH, they are a few notches above consumer grade, and you pay for that.
rupe53, big block v8s are built better than a small block because big is inherintly better than small?
My feeling is we as consumers deserve to be treated with more respect. Saving a dollar an amp and making the amps fail is just disrespecting us as consumers.
It really is, they don't care anymore though.
We live in age of china. Bye bye good quality stuff.
@@smoochie3331 It's a few things, and I don't think we disagree. China is a country (where ethics and quality often. mean nothing), but there's an accompanying mindset that got US mfrs to go there - more profit for shareholders. And what that also drives is lower prices for consumers. Consumers too often choose on the basis of price alone. Could some US mfrs have resisted this? Maybe not. The high priced better quality stuff would lose out at retail. People what low price when they're buying, and high quality when it breaks down. That can't be easily resolved. It's the old story. We want fast, cheap and good, but we can never have all 3. Two at the most.
It's all about the money. They don't care about the customer
@@rickknowlan8949 True, I ended up bought Blues Jr USA after a mexican. I am selling the mexican now.
I spent a long time in R&D at a major telecom equipment developer. One other problem with silver solder is the possibility of silver migration. An electric field between two points will cause silver molecules to move from one point to another, eventually causing a short circuit. Of course it doesn't last long but can cause damage when present.
I just had a 2002 USA made Deluxe Reverb opened up for a bias adjustment of new tubes after the original Groove Tubes started blowing the fuse, and it was perfect on the inside. No heat damage, no bad capacitors, no bad solder joints. The IC caps were perfect other than testing out at values that were starting to get close to being out of tolerance.
On the contrary, I had a 2003 USA made Hod Rod Deluxe on the bench for a friend of mine and all of the IC capacitors were completely shot-bulging and in really really bad shape. It needed a full cap job. The grid resistors had completely cooked the circuit board as well (as was expected). So the QC changes came while Fender was still building these in Corona, but only very soon before production was moved to Ensenada.
I really like this era of Fender amps, particularly the Blues Deluxe and Hot Rod Deluxe because they have a really nice midrange to their sound, but I would not buy one without seeing a gut shot first. These are getting old enough that those caps are ticking time bombs if they haven’t blown already, and the circuit boards have a very real chance of being completely cooked by those resistors. They MUST be inspected before buying. Period.
I think the owner of the DRRI just got lucky. ;)
Which is good!
Any time I see IC caps in the Fender hand wired amps I shudder! Those amps are expensive! I'd expect premium caps!
Lead-free solder is great unless you want to solder something with it.
The elephant in the closet is not the lead free solder but that Fender cheaped out (in both the US and Mexican versions of this amp) by mounting the tube sockets directly to the circuit board instead of the amp chassis.
Lead free solder has a higher melting point which would be an asset if heat were the only problem but the issue is that the components get hot and then get cold - and metal expands and contracts. Lead free solder is mostly tin and it is more brittle - lead alloys deform rather than crack to a degree. You still get cracked joints with leaded solder but it takes more cycles. The best solution is to design for less heat - which is tricky with valves because they are power components, at least in some cases.
There was a major counterfeit problem with electrolytic capacitors that lasted for years. It was mainly noted for causing the failure of a very large number of computer motherboards. If a faulty cap hadn't blown completely yet, you could often see it swelling at the top.
@@xpander8140 I thought the formula used in caps was stolen and incorrectly used in the bad caps.
To imply lead free solder causes failure is misleading. There are many different formulations for LF solder. Some have high, some have low melting points; Some are brittle, some are not. The particular type used in an application (such as on tube socket pins) greatly affects reliability. There is no shortage of failed equipment assembled with lead solder, too.
If the formulation of solder isn't matched to the application, whether leaded or lead-free, then a joint could fail.
I used to work in a restaurant chain, we were ordered by our managers, on request by the Accountant never to throw away food, even if it could make people sick. As soon as the managers left, we threw all the expired food in the trash!
I used to work in a restaurant too. Whoever came up with that policy would have been dismissed instantly where I worked. That's such a stupid solution. The proper solution is to buy in proper quantities and to use the food up. Get rid of the people who are creating the waste. This makes absolutely no sense on any level.
thank you for your service!
I worked at a Frisch's for one day, and they did that with everything, including the bacon and scrambled eggs.
Lol, my dad used to work in a family owned grocery store. He said half rotten fruit NEVER got pitched. The good parts were salvaged to make fruit salad.
It's simple to fix. Simply redesign such that the valves are pointing UP, not down. It's not a surprise that the solder fails. It's not the solder per-se. It's the heat cycles that are put through the board. The heat from the valves rises and cooks the sockets and the board. Then, when the amp is powered off it all cools down and contracts. The solder joints break due to the constant expansion and contraction. Ridiculous design, and all the amp manufacturers have been doing it for decades. Point the valves UPWARDS and let the heat escape into the atmosphere for goodness sake!
its best just to use the old style sockets and divorce the tube from the PCB if you must use a PCB. But in this case, there isn't much on the PCB....it all fly's on those crappy ribbon cables over to the main board. The cables are not socketed and its stupid to run the wires in parallel like that.......obviously designed by somebody that went to school where they taught low voltage digital technology and not the old school obsolete technology. GO design computers and stay away from designing vacuum tube audio amplifiers.......>>>>>>cracked circuit boards were the nemesis in the transition to solid state and the modern PCB's with traces back in the day......other than bad solder joints coming out of the factory assembly line. I go way back as my father was an RCA dealer and we did service as part of the business.
@@mikecamps7226 Exactly, and spot on with everything you stated here. Ribbon cables have no damn place whatsoever in a musical instrument amplifier, for one thing. The potential for "crosstalk" is raised that much more, which leads to a host of more headaches. It's not that I have "bias" (pardon the pun, LOL!) against a PC board amp, they can be built correctly and with quality components, workmanship, and PC boards along with them. It's why Soldano amps are known for their fantastic sound, ruggedness, and reliability. Yes, you pay for that, but you also pay to avoid all the headaches of cheap crap. Hell, I owned a Blackheart Little Giant 5 watt amp, and to me, it was built very well, when I saw the traces on the PC board ( yes, I know...copper plated, not 100% copper) and the well laid out components, I knew what made it so good sounding. And yes, sadly, I sold it. To me, that little guy was the best amp I ever had.
I don't disagree. If the amp has the controls on the bottom, like a Marshal, that's easy. But if it has the controls on the top, you end up having to do some contortions that result in a more expensive chassis if you try to make the tubes point up.
I always use lead free solder in my diy builds. Pedals mixers etc. You can buy a cheap verion with 0.4% silver, which is terrible and won't flow, needs more heat to flow and takes longer to set, causing issues with weak joints and component damage.
You can also buy, which I do, 4%silver. This flows well, has a slightly higher melting point and takes very little time to adjust to using. It is well over 5 times the price though. I personally wouldn't use anything else. But then again I don't have share holders to pamper and I'm not trying to trade on my good name with slip shod construction.
@@russellhltn1396 You do the contortions as required for wiring. Mounting tubes inverted causes overheating of the sockets and stresses the internals of the tube. Very poor engineering.
A big problem right there is having the tubes mounted to the PC board. The tubes in my Mexican made '68 CDRI are not.
Design to cost is across engineering, production, procurement and ends in finance. If top quality components were used sales might have to explain and prove the sonic superiority and longer life (maybe with longer warranties) of the amp. Bottom line is profit. Manufacturer has to make 100% or more profit selling to distribution, distribution makes X% selling to retail, retail has to make some margin but is often required to sell at a fixed price. Same for hi-fi industry.
Great video, points well taken.
Over time since the transition to lead free, the solder formulas have improved dramatically. Back in the early days the stuff had multiple phase transitions, would barely wet, wouldn’t flow well even when it was done right. This led to a lot of solder defects while the formulations and processes adjusted, but things are _much_ better now.
If the manufacturer spends for the good stuff, yes.
Most amp manufacturers don't do that.
@@PsionicAudio They may not be using the top shelf stuff, but *nobody* wants to use that dreck from 2007 era. It’s not worth it because it’s just that bad.
They also need to use MUCH higher temperatures for lead free. If you use the same temperatures used for lead based solder you will not get good joints. Many through hope components were not designed for lead free specifically.
@@johnjoyce The melting point of lead-free solder isn't that much higher than that of lead based. Using much higher temperatures brings a whole lot of issues. First: You get a much steeper temperature gradient within the joint, which can result in your solder oxidizing to the point it won't flow before the entire joint has reached working temperature. If you rely on the flux in the solder, that can burn off before it reaches the contacts on the circuit board, leaving oxide layers in the joint. Much higher temperatures also increase the risk that the glue that keeps the metal on the circuit board disintigrates during the soldering process.
In my experience the best way to work with lead free solder is to work at the same temperature you would use with leaded solder (how hot that is depends on the thermal mass of the joint relative to the thermal mass of the soldering tip), prep the joints with liquid flux (not relying on the flux in the solder allows for soldering technique that wouldn't work if you rely solely on the flux in the solder), and most importantly: slow down a bit. Taking your time is particularly important if your solder is not eutectic - which applies to most of the cheaper lead-free options. Non-eutectic solders don't go straight from solid to liquid (or vice versa), but pass through a stage in which it has "doughy" consistency. And going from liquid into that doughy consistency is what happens when you add too much solder too quickly to the joint. That's a pain to deal with, because you're looking at unpredictable temperature gradients within the joint, which can result in voids and bubbles in the joint, that take experience to recognize and skill to fix. I think a lot of the problems attributed to lead free solder are actually the result of people not knowing how to handle the stuff.
@@MrAranton The melting point difference is 30+°C. You don't think that's significant?
I just recently ordered a Blues Deluxe made in 1995 in Brea California. Im hoping and praying its all good. I had a 1st generation HRD that was great and ive had two from the 2000s fail me so we with see how this one does. I have a 45 day return option so ill make sure to check and test it thoroughly.
This was an extremely eye opening video. Thank you!
Currently sitting in my studio surrounded by 6 Fender amps all purchased new. 5 have been recapped after 3 years. I also had a late 90's Twin and a Bassman reissue that were also recapped within 3 years. Fender amps have sucked for decades. My Made in China Vox AC15 and my 90's PV Classics have been flawless.
If it weren't for the fact that clients like to see the Fender name plate when they check out the studio I wouldn't own one of them.
Just checked my recently purchased blues Jr pcbs. I saw black solder mask. So I won't be able to check pcb overtemp visually without pulling the pcb now and looking at the other side...but I'm sure that's a coincidence ;)
Thank you for calling out the component quality and especially the solder, jacks, pots. I remember the tweeds in the 90s breaking for the same reasons of cheap pots cheap jacks and mounting the tubes the way they did with PCBs and solder joints taking direct stress for much of this. I saw plenty of repairs to their solder joints then. These lovely amps didn’t handle gig commutes via pickup trucks well.
i asked my friend who worked at fender usa what the difference was in guitars...his response? usa gets first wood choice and a coupla hundred miles lol...he did add that the usa guitars have better electronics but that the manufacturing was pretty much the same...that was 15 years ago though and things may have changed since then
It's not necessarily accountants, but engineers who determine the BOMs having a incentive to decrease cost as part of there bonus.
But, the Engineers are obeying the new guidelines established by the Corporate Environmental Compliance team....
@@alanmarcum2044 Right! Your on to it. Its not just finance, its the entire corporation lol. The entire company will have different departments pulling the product in different oftentimes non-productive directions for various reasons. I work in big corporate America so I live this shit every day haha.
Half of what is said goes over my head but man do i enjoy these videos. Not all too far from you in Florence, Alabama.
The fact is, that Fender amps are awesome sounding amps. Most of them sound best when played clean, some have a beautiful gain-crunch sound. It absolutely does not matter, if these Amps are MiM, MiUS or MiC or made in somewhere else. In the last 50 years I learned by experience that Fender is Fender not more, not less. Amps that are in constant use, break down sometimes, which is normal. Therefore every amps needs maintainance and some care. Some old solid states from the US do have little issues with resistors or cacitors, but nothing wild to repair. Chinese Fenders often have issues with the cheap electronic components like transistors, resistors or potis. Nothing difficult and cheap in maintainance. So: no problems at all. The tube amp reissues are all great and they should never be compared with an original classic amp. Why? Natural aging of the materials changes the sound considerably. I own some Mexican, US and China fenders amps and they all sound "Fender". My latest toy is a China Frontman 212 R. This was a cheap beast when sold new, it is a solid state and they are cheap in the preowned market. But: Fender sounds like Fender. Every Fender Amp range has slice little differences in intonation. Nothing to care about. If used in a band context, it suddenly does no more matter at all, because some sound characters are "eaten" by the other band instruments. But it always can be herared that there is a Fender being played. Fenders can do Hardrock, Metal, Punk or whatever that is played in gain or hi-gain, but Fenders have their roots in Jazz, Blues, Country, Rock´n Roll, Rockabilly, Funk and Soul music. For the rest there are other brands out there. In my already long life I played Marshall, Orange, Vox, Cort, Hughes & Kettner, Hohner, Echolette, Vermona, even Harley Benton amps, Gibson, H&H, Alesis and some other amps but finally to play authentic oldschool Rock´n Roll, Rockabilly, Country+Western, Blues and Alternative Country, I came back to Fender amps. No matter where they are made, absolutely no matter, a Fender is a Fender and can only be replaced by a Fender. Please stop this IMHO useless discussion that the country of making them matters. It doesn´t matter. May Fender sellers or collectors tell you all these myths and stories abour the origin of the make, it´s bullshit. Play testing as many of Fenders that you can, never look at their country of origin and you for sure will find the one that suits you. I love all of my Fender amps and I don´t care where they are made.
Great point on the caps, and I love your channel. Please help me understand how the heat affects lead-free solder more, given that lead-free solders melt at higher temperatures of about 217°C/422°F compared to 183°C/361°F for the lead-based? Is there another factor in play?
From a guitarists standpoint, the MIM Blues Junior has a much brighter, cleaner tone, while the original USA model is darker-toned and does not get the Fender "sparkle", and the reverb is also weaker in the USA (Green Board) models.
For MY purposes (and maybe not yours), the Cream Board Mexico version gives me a great sound, while the USA version may be ok for mellow Jazz, etc, but not for Blues, Swing, Country, etc..
However, I just got a Princeton Reverb, and have pretty much retired the BJ to my backup amp.!
When accountants start telling designers how something should be made it isn't that something any more.
Absolutely! I'm an engineer and just yesterday I had a scream fight with an accountant that was trying to tell me how to work. These people are asshats and a plight in humanity. Jesus I'm still raging. What a short sighted imbecile. Such an asshole.
Tubes should always have their own metal mounts away from circuit boards. I mean, how expensive can that be.
"The 2000's" is a very broad time range since this is 2022. I own and regularly use a Fender Pro Blues Jr. that I bought about 2014. As nears I can tell lead free solder mandates were decided on 2010-2014 and went in to effect about 2015. My amp was assembled about 2013. I looked inside and my amp has the IC caps. Sorry about those built later.
I would assume the 2000's would mean 2000-2009.
Im never giving up my 40 year old Fender 75.
Those caps were in my 68DR, lasted 3yrs. Same with a super sonic.
I love old amplifiers and I love old cars. I used to love old women but they all died on me.
Cheap input jack failures on the last 5 Fender amps I have purchased. DRRI, 2 Princeton Reverbs, Mustang, Hotrod Deville and Hotrod Deluxe
Well… I would have moved out of Fender after 3 failures… good luck with your 6th amp 😀
Here's a perspective on this possibly nobody else here has. I've been a guitar guy/player for decades but recently I added a new skillset to keep myself challenged. I plunged into mixing and DJ sets . Controllers, DDJs and CDJs, turntables and decks. (Honestly I recommend it as something new, for someone whos already a musician as an easy transition into something else musical - honestly it doesnt take much skill or effort). The thing with DJ gear is that its all faders, dials and pots and the pots in particular get a hammering far more intense than an amp. I'm coming up against dry solder fails in multiple pots as gear gets older (high/low pass filters in particular). Any problems that guitar players will face with amps will be ten times worse for DJs and their equipment. Im not saying DJs are musical idiots (that's for you guys to debate), but most of those guys tend to hang off the same specific post and sliders like a monkey swinging on it's favourite bar over and over. The dangers of being a one trick pony i guess.
Dj’s are why there aren’t as many live bands and opportunities to play live if you have a band. Less dj and more musicians.
You know the accountants are the difference when the cheaper brand of amplifier is using the higher quality of the Filter caps. I'll never forget being in college jazz band, and a fellow guitar player had scrimped and saved to get his first real tube amp - a 4x10 Hot Rod Deville. Not a cheap amp for a college student. The amp failed on his 2nd rehearsal with it. We never saw that amp again.
I bought a used (but in excellent condition) Blues Jr. 3 a few weeks ago.
$319.00 w/original cover.
Black tolex, green board, May 2015, Mexico, Patriot 'Cannabis Rex' Eminence spkr.
Prior owner removed C3…..and added a bias at R51 and R52.
They may have done more mods but I can’t tell.
C25: 450V 47mf…….other 3 caps: 450V 22mf.
All 4 are grey IC brand.
Amp sounds pretty good.
Might do a Fromel or BillM mod………maybe.
(Like your videos!)
Did a Fromel on my BJ,sounds fantastic.Gave the amp to my cousins son on good faith,he pawned the goddamn thing,I didn’t know he had a drug problem.Been wishing for that amp for a while,I also installed a warehouse speaker,that was a one of a kind blues jr.Oh well.
I am an Accountant and it isn't our fault. We don't decide the prices of things.
Exactly. Management hires engineers specifically to find cheaper ways to make things. Sometimes this leads to a better, more efficient design, but more often than not it leads to poor quality that has very little margin to failure hidden where no one can see.
Glad I saw this video! Was thinking about buying a new Fender amp but everything just keeps getting cheaper as the prices always increase.
But Fender will gladly spend the money on marketing instead. I’ve been anti-Fender since 2015 because of unneeded price hikes. I bought a $600 Yamaha that blows $2000 Fenders away QC wise. At this point every other company builds better Teles and Strats than Fender does.
I tried out a few Fenders at a shop here in Zurich, Switzerland last summer and 4 out of 5 Fender amps had issues on the showroom floor. One of them started out ok and died on me within the first minute. I was going to get a deluxe reverb reissue, but after that experience, and some research, I bought a Dr Z. I also have a MIM Blues Jr IV. It sounds great. I’ve opened it up twice, and changed speakers twice. Like IKEA furniture, I don’t think the amp will survive being taken apart and put back together another two times. I am creating new holes to screw in the speaker because the speaker screw holes in the baffle board are stripped out. The pieces aren’t fitting as tight as they used to. “Why don’t the pieces fit?” Tool
I own a 2006/2007 Mexican Blues DeVille (I think…) It has 4 by 10” speakers and pushes 60 W (RMS?) . Is it crap? Thanks! (Great Vid….just subbed)
Yeah, think I'll stick with my Marshalls 💪🏼
I always use Panasonic (low esr) or Nichicon caps. Very high quality.
Looks so cheap and flimsy under the hood. Hard to imagine these amps standing up to road use. My old Sears Silvertone, all point-to-point wiring, which I used to think was cheap because of the department store name, towers above these Fender branded throw-away toys.
Unless you can take a backup valves are a pain for gigging. A mosfet amp sounds great. In bar situations with poor acoustics and background noise, the valvey goodness does not really shine through.
I spent some time in a shop, we would sit in the back sipping tea and polishing frets. The game was guitar and amp being played out front.
We would often get the right guitar, rarely the amp.
@@andrewfrancis3591 it's the old catch 22. A tube amp can be quickly fixed if a tube fails, a mosfet goes and you're boned. Of course the mosfet amp is far less likely to fail in the first instance.
@@slidey1788 Still got my Selmer Thunderbird twin 30. It goes to the occasional jam. When I can find some young herbert to lift it. I retired it from gigging back in the 80s.
I love valves like a vintage car.
The cabinet on the Silvertone was quite flimsy.
Thank you for this video. Our early 2000 amps are pushing 20 years now. I have a Mexico cream board which I felt sounded better than the USA. I will keep an eye on the soldier and caps. :)
I'm late to the party as usual, but I bought one of the original green board BJs in 2000 to play harmonica through after my original '65 Princeton Reverb got stolen. :( It sucked for harmonica. I mean royally sucked. There were design issues that Fender never acknowledged (to avoid a recall) and is why the board was redesigned (to the "cream board"). The input traces on the original circuit board were too close together and caused massive feedback under high gain and made the amp pretty much unusable for amplified harmonica like the Princeton. I did all the "BillM" mods from a now-defunct website that made the amp usable for guitar, but still sucked for harmonica so I ended up selling the amp to a guitarist. Funny thing is I know several harmonica players who swear by the newer cream board BJs.
Cool, so if we want a Blues junior, we buy an old one
Thanks for the vid! Very informative! Do you know what year the mandate for lead free solder came into effect? Thanks
"fender saved about $1.00 per amp" (by changing to inferior caps which ultimately fail)
wow you couldn't make this shit up
On a 777€, 15 W amp. 🤡🤡
Mounting the tubes inverted causes overheating of the sockets, and stresses the internal components. Very poor engineering.
Fender's been doing that since @ 1961. Not the root cause here.
@@PsionicAudio It's a root cause for damaging the sockets.
@Luther Blissett Keep adding special caveats and creating special situations to justify this poor practice. Sheesh.
My Hotrod is a US made one, didnt make it any more reliable haha !! But none of the issues on the US were solder joints and I cannot say that about the Mexican built ones ive owned.
Same reason I'm holding back from buying a modern Fender Guitar.
So I guess the obvious questions is, and forgive me if this has already been explained elsehwere: can the newer amp be upgraded to the older specs so that it WILL last longer without the issues you're talking about here?
I would suggest that the accountants will have insisted the designers design in a way to prevent that. Every so often a round plug becomes a square one or a 3 pin plug becomes a 4 pin plug.
Great video, thank you for uploading! I have a made in Mexico Blues Junior (lacquered tweed), this is a really useful video but is this a full shopping list of remedial work that is needed to a Blues Junior or is there anything else you'd recommend? . . . Also, have you any contacts for a good Amp Tech you'd trust in the Midlands of UK (long shot, but worth a try!)? :)
Thanks. Input jack,, filters, up the screen grids to 1K, cool the bias, reflow the solder joints on pots and tube sockets, replace the 1N4006s with 1N4007s, replace the molded plastic speaker cable, remove bright cap, enjoy amp.
Roland Lumby is fantastic. I think he's in Manchester or Birmingham.
Marvellous!! Thank you, so much. I’ve found Roland on Facebook, he’s about 2.5hrs away from me, but will give him a call and try and plan a reason why I need to go to Manchester!
you can get lead solder where they sell stained glass equipment and supplies
You don't want lead solder. You want leaded solder. 60/40.
@@PsionicAudio Would the same advice apply for work on stereo tube amps, i.e. EL84 fishers etc.?
my USA blues deluxe was catching constant interference from a nearby cell tower so it was useless. My tech said...get a better shielded newer amp.
Companies (just like car companies) whom are public, and some which are private have an obligation to both management, board members, and or shareholders to keep costs as low as possible. One way they do this is by making the electronics in them just good enough to make it through the warranty period, and then if they fail, then they've spent exactly the amount required to build the product - anymore is considered wasteful spending. Their reputation does get it, but it depends on how much that matters to them at the time. Fender is also making a lot more money through other channels so their hardware isn't nearly as important for money making as it was. Younger musicians are also not as concerned as most of them won't be famous, nor really concerned if their equipment dies in 5 or so years like the older ones were. It's also sadly that we've come to accept our equipment being less robust over time because of the nature of the modern economy and throw away culture.
I opened my "blond Vibrolux made in 1995" and it is amazing quality. Many more wires, to start with. This electronic engineer, who customises amps, told me he was impressed with the quality and said these amps can't be found nowadays unless you spend over 3000 dollars/euros. He made a few upgrades and rewired it a bit too. You can see a video on my channel.
Can you please recommend me what speaker/amp to buy to use with my Studiologic digital piano? A speaker that could fit in a avenger car trunk to be used for outdoor playing.. what brand makes high quality long lasting ones today? 🙏🙏🙏
There are lead free solders that actually can handle heat. It just costs more.
Thanks for taking the time to create this video. That amp mechanical design is appalling IMHO.
Great video Lyle finally an honest answer on the made in USA versus Mexico fender amp. Why does my Blues Deville 1994 not have a Bias pot but my Hot Rod Deville 1996 4x10 have one just curious or maybe I over looked it
Hey Ricky, thanks. The Blues Ds don't have bias pots. The Hot Rod Ds do.
Ive bought solder with 33%lead in it . On line . No problem .
I saw the inside of one of the hand wired Chris Stapleton amps and they were using the IC caps in those too.
Cheesy!
It’s not that IC caps are inherently bad, but cap manufacturers make all kinds of caps at different qualities and price points.
@@lordofthemound3890 ive heard from more than one tech that they were more likely to leak.
Could you give us a few capacitor recommendations of possible? Thanks in advance!
Current Vox amps use lead-free solder and have been for many years - even well before the AC10C1 was released. This should not cause any concern over the life of the tubes used in the amp. There are no service bulletins released for any of the Vox products noting any issues specifically relating to the use of no-lead solder.
Thank you, be safe, and have a great weekend.
Best regards,
Korg USA Product Support
I wasn't talking Korg/Vox. They tend to be much better built than the Blues Juniors.
That said, I've encountered plenty of faulty lead-free solder joints in Korg products over the past 20 years.
Not all problens get service bulletins.
@@PsionicAudio Well, my Vox stays in my studio.
That was interesting. Thank you.
Come on Fender! Sales are up, quit skimping…
I have a Made in Mexico Blues Jr. where the rectifing diodes melted at a gig and caught the PC board on fire for a brief moment. Man did that stink!
The US ones fail that way too. Both use 1N4006s there. Wrong penny saved.
I recently bought a fender pro jr and am not sure if it was made in Mexico or USA it is a green board 2005 but other than that nothing, how can I determine where it was made? Since does not have serial ni or any other information
Well said!
So when looking at modern amps is top/side mounted tubes better than bottom mounted?
I had to subscribe based on this video alone. Thank you !
I’d there any improvement on the new Blues Jr. IV?
Higher prices, cheaper materials. What a shame.
Would Nichicon Fine Gold caps be a decent enough replacement for the IC one’s? I’ve got tons of those stocked up in different values. I’ve got a 2009 Peavey Classic 20 MH (Made in China) I believe have those same smaller IC caps.
They would work, but their ripple current rating is pretty average. My go-to electrolytic caps are F&T for larger values, or Panasonic FM/FC/FR for smaller
@@DanFlashes99 Would Peavey have used the same lead free solder on the Classic series (2009)? Supreme/Bandit 90’s series?
@@RasCuban33 RoHS was implemented in 2004. Before that I think lead-free solder was not typically used in amps. After that, maybe but not necessarily
@@DanFlashes99 you’re awesome, thank you for the knowledge 👍🏽.
What year did they switch to lead free solder?
Thanks for the info!
sorry dude but lead free or not even soloder with lead joints will crack etc , with tin or lead free solder well that shit does not stick very well and is not a very good conductor at all , i have been an electronics tech for over 40 years and i have see all the changes over the years and sold with a hi percentage of lead or all lead is best either way but tin is pointless and grabadge, quaility of parts like your caps resistors and so on is also a huge deal. but you also need proper ventolation as well expaicially anything with tubes needs really good ventolation and should also include a fan as should even solid state keep the heat low and you have alot less problems to. also to make another point we are a mass production society and as such the process in making stuff and doing solder work as an example is less and less done buy humans and more by the run on the belt and dip and go process tho is not a bad process but it gets also of errors that would not happen with a human .. computers are no different really less human contact more robots more defects happen and more waste as well. but things have to be this way because of demand and also cost cutting as well to make things afforable to .. i prefer hi lead content solder and as long as i can buy it ill use it over anything else
So which ones are using lead free solder the US or the Mexican or both? Which ones use the cheap caps? The US or Mexican or both.
Early US made HRDs had leaded solder. Current Mexican ones lead free. I don't know when the change was implemented.
Both use the same cheap caps and overheated low voltage supply.
I'm kind of shocked at seeing how cheap the PCB looks compared to a Peavey for example.
Although it does look like they didn't skimp on the PCB's for the tube sockets.
It just looks exactly like the same cheap PCB in the 10W solid state practice amps that Fender make.
I noticed that also. My cheapo second hand Blackheart and Peavey amps are way better made with better PCB's and components. All have been used and abused and still sound great.
Peaveys were always built like tanks. Ask any rehearsal center and they will tell you Peaveys can take a lot more abuse than other amps. Too bad they are downsizing, looks like they have too much competition from Line6, Boss Katana and other cheap amps.
If only you were the consultant to these amp manufacturers. Shoddy penny pinching by fender
Lead-free solder is dreadful. Essentially, it's planned obsolescence.
But it'll save the world! ;-)
Oohh I just commented the same thing, I'm glad other people get it!
@@PlasticCogLiquid Sorry, I didn't see your comment.
Anyhow, I'm stocking up on the good stuff myself.
Wouldn't be expensive to just buy some lead based solder and melt away the lead free and replace it.
Good to remember when your negotiating a price on a 'Reissue' Amp.... It's not worth the retail price if you're gonna wind up shelling out hundreds of dollars for an amp tech to redo the caps and solder in two years! Be sure to get extended warranty's!
Lead free solder SUCKS. Even the best of plumbers had a big learning curve soldering copper after the switch. In that field products are getting more reliable. Hopefully the same in electronics.
There was decades of experience working with tin/lead solder, learning how to deal with the problems it might have had. I imagine those problems will get sorted through with tin/silver in time.
What brand capacitors do you recommend?
But this is generally true for everything though, people are always critical of cheap Chinese and Mexican products and have the opinion that the manufacturers in these countries produce low quality products, sure they do, but they only do that because that is what they are asked to produce, as a western importer and distributer you could go to China and meet with a manufacturer and get whatever level of quality for your product that you require and are prepared to pay for, Western countries are flooded with low quality Chinese (and Mexican) made products because Western importers and distributors order/buy/import these products and sell them for big profits, that is where the big money is made, large volumes of cheap crappy products for the masses.
That's the absolute truth, China is capable of everything
THIS needs to be better exposed. This is the WM model. They called it “advocating” for consumers by “keeping prices down” when in reality it was giving the retailers larger profit margins by forcing “quality” out of the picture almost entirely then falsely representing the end result.
Corporations are not your friends AND they certainly are NOT people.
@@51bbob Yes exactly, the big chain retailers of low cost products, we all know who they are there's no real need to say their names, they hide themselves and the actual facts quietly in the shadows behind the bullshit notion that not only are countries like China and Mexico flooding the west with crap products but they steal your manufacturing jobs as well, when the reality is that everything from these countries is made on order and to the quality specifications that their customers ordered, and their customers are the importers and owners of our friendly big chain stores. It's a big con like just about everything these days.
Leo fender was known for ALWAYS trying to decrease the cost of his stuff. Some call that value for the money, some other call that social responsibility. But NO, fender’s number priority has never been quality. I know, I how plenty of their guitars and amps…
So after seeing this... Is it OK then to get a pre 2000 HRD? Or am I better just going with the current plan on the AC15?
A pre-2000 HRD is just guaranteed to have a fully toasted board with bad pads/traces and the garbage jacks.
There is no such thing as a "vintage" HRD.
@@PsionicAudio so there it is. AC15 decided. Thanks
The difference is about 75 miles.....
hello, what is a good solder? 60/40 ? what do you recommend ? thanks
I use Kester 60/40 .031 and .062, but mostly the .031.
Cheap Cap's and usually on the voltage edge. It's a shame because a little bit oversized Cap can make All the difference in reliability especially with the modern voltage surge's. The price of Cap's over 500 VDC is outrageous ! It's getting insane what they want for them. It's all just a rip off scam. Corporate is always looking to save a few bucks. Tubes Are little nuclear reactors !
my first gen USA junior needs new FC's ...badly, and new set of toobs..
Yup, should get 15-20 years from decent caps
I still have the original 40 year old caps in my fender. Yes, theoretically they should be changed I know. But they still test ok and are in as new physical condition. Maybe it helps that the amp gets played every day in a stable temperature environment.
GREAT VIDEO!
My question is, if IC capacitors are really *that* bad, then why does Fender use some of them in their handwired Custom Shop amps? I am not a tech but I have a hard time believing that Fender would specify certain awful parts alongside other fine components for their best amplifiers (at top-dollar prices).
The caps come at different price points. Fender is opting for cheaper caps.
Because their hand wired custom shop amps are usually not very good. Notice they used Sprague Atoms in the EC tweed series. But they messed up the EC Tremolux circuit pretty drastically.
they whizz they fizz and does some other bizz, innit...
PCBs are bad in hot tube amps. The old tag strip construction can't be beaten.
The title is slightly misleading, I assumed this was about cheap knock off Car Fender's .
I spent a lot of time and money on modifications and maintaining 3 Blues Juniors with my friend and amp tech in the 2000's. They all were sinking ships and I got rid of them all even though I liked their tone a lot. We did a lot of the BillM mods but they still failed. Ultimately my tech friend said
absolutely no more circuit board amps! I can't blame him. I then started to go back to point-to-point older amps with much less maintenance. Fender 75's are great if you can find them. Circuit boards amps seem so unreliable and sketchy. My friend Ultimately felt sorry for me and gave me a couple of old 40's to 60's Bogen PA heads modded for guitar and they have great tone and have been bullet proof in the reliability department. Circuit board amps are not for me.
You can't form a real opinion of circuit board amps from a Blues Junior.
Like forming your opinion of fried chicken based on only ever having had mcnuggets.
'70s-'83 Marshalls all use PCBs, are correctly viewed as fantastic amps, and are prone to none of the flaws of the Blues Junior.
Suhr, Diezel, Metropoulos, Soldano, Bogner, even some Friedmans, etc. The list of great amps using well designed high quality PCBs is long.
@@PsionicAudio I definitely wish I had known about the "fried chicken" amps...would probably have been happier spending a little more money out the gate buying a higher quality amp. McNugget is a good description of the BJ. Good to know there are reliable PCB amps out there. I probably spent the same amount in mods and repairs versus buying a higher quality amp in the first place. I am tempted to look into a Vox AC15C1. I like your videos and how honest and informative they are. Thanks!