Dark Souls Lore | What was the First Sin?
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 17 сен 2024
- What was the First Sin, and who committed it? Watch this video and find out! =D
#darksouls #darksouls2 #darksouls3
▶ Twitter:
/ theashenhollow
▶ Patreon:
/ theashenhollow
▶ Discord:
/ discord
▶ Music by:
www.epidemicso...
▶ Channel Art by:
/ jenn.designs
The first sin didn't occur until patches kicked someone down a hole.
Patches be the ones who kicked the four Lords and some poor Pigmy down the kiln of the first flame, he just didn't realize the flame would make them stronger rather than leave ashes covered loot, I mean can't blame him who would?
Lmao😂🤣😭💀
So it began in Demon's Souls ?
@@hvypower2472 Exactly!
Invention of sin for sure
Pretty sure the easiest explanation as to what the first sin was is this - resisting the course of nature. Both Gwyn and the Witch resisted the natural order and tried to artificially have control over a cycle they never would have complete dominance over.
Thats an excellent way to sum it up thematically, I think our friends at From would agree.
I would like this comment, but 69
Ironic that Aldia, a scholar of those sins, would try to do the same thing.
if you think about it, Aldia wasnt really going against nature, he was going against the curse.
the curse isnt natural, it was forced upon humans by Gwin. Aldia only tried to overcome it.
even trying to recreate the ancient dragons can be read as just reverting to nature and going against Gwin, since Gwin's war that brought their end, and they were supposed to be everlasting creatures.
@@gamongames the fall of the dragons was meant to be all was going in natural order of the world until gwyn rekindled the flame fearing the dark (the end of his age and knowing those who possessed a dark soul was or at least was meant to be stronger than the gods/him) it only states that the dragons were everlasting meaning immortal not be around forever they even say it's the natural order of the world for fire to come after dragons and dark after fire
Maybe the real First Sin was the friends we made along the way
I agree
The first sin was excluding Velka from the gods club.
This is the *D E E P E S T L O R E*
Gwyn attempted to put an end to the demons and the bed of chaos, but he failed, only succeeding in creating the black knights that haunt the world. He then repeated the Witch’s sin and temporarily succeeded without repercussions, except for his own self sacrifice. Him sacrificing his daughter to the Ringed City was not just to hide the truth of the world, but was to provide a posthumous means of control over those who could put an end to his Age of Fire (Humanity). The humans did not see Gwyn as an enemy until well after they were all cursed. Even then, most still viewed him as a god, regardless of how Gwyn viewed them as a threat.
Gwyn wasnt a control freak that everyone paints him to be. He wasn't afraid of the Age of Fire dying out because it will end his reign. The thing about the humans and demons is that they were rampant.
The Pygmy shared the Dark Souls to all of the pygmies. The Witch did the same (although not intentionally). The demons were the product of the Chaos Flame. Much like the Profane Flame melting everyone, except the Chaos Flame melded everything together.
As for the humans, humans started to turn into monsters. Raw emotions taking form and corrupting them.
This is why he saw the demons and humans as threats.
Remember, Gwyn is pragmatic. He isn't unfair nor unjust. He is just doing damage control. He is doing what needs to be done. He sacrificed himself so obviously selfishness/greed isn't a true driver for him.
wanderingbufoon while Gwyn did not really fear the end of his age of fire, he did definitely fear what he knew humanity would become and attempted to halt their progress towards that outcome. Gwyn knew he couldn’t control it, but he did play damage control as much as possible, even if it meant controlling everyone, even history, in the end. He wasn’t a control freak, but he was gripped by fear for sure, otherwise he wouldn’t be willing to sacrifice himself, his knights, and his family for all of Anor Londo’s residents and his domain. He recommitted the First Sin out of fear.
@@StinkyWheatPenny
sure. I mean when you hear that the Dark Soul has the power to corrupt and turn into monsters and then find out that EVERY single human actually received the DS. That would put you into panic mode.
What is worse is that your friend, The Witch, failed and as a result, created a similar situation to the DS.
His son started to side with the dragons. His other son was fragile and feeble.
His 2 comrades are either obsessed with doing weird mad scientist experiments or just chilling with his skinny bois in a cave.
Suddenly everything is in shambles and he is all alone or ill equipped to deal with the rising problems.
Pygmies were isolated so their emotions don't run rampant and turn them into monsters.
The magic people are more of an immediate threat since they just melded with other lives and became demons.
The Witch and her daughters are too busy with the baby (the parasite that we kill in the bed of chaos. yes that is a baby merged with something)
The son is a chaotic being just spewing endless pyro magic flames.
He had every motivation to prolong the Age of Fire.
@@StinkyWheatPenny btw I'm not arguing with you at this point. I'm just adding more to it.
wanderingbufoon its all good. Never saw it as an argument to begin with, my dude. All in good fun, just talking about Souls lore.
"A lie will remain a lie and men are props in the stage of life" isn't that a reference to how gwyn used humans as slaves to fight the dragons and tainting those same humans with fire creating the ringed knights leading towards the creation of the dark sign
I know this is old by now so sorry, but yes you are correct. The first sin was when Gwynn sealed the dark in humans with fire thus making them mortals and sealing away the dark cutting man off from his humanity. "lord of light banished the dark.... and man assumed a fleeting form". Pygmies, mans true form are immortal and undying.
It feels like "The First" sin has to be bigger than that. Something like coveting the first Lord Souls, or whatever started the Age of Fire (discarded ciggarette?). Wouldn't that be more biblical? The Age of Fire or coveting the Lord Souls pretty much kicks off all the shit, right? Before that, everything was chill. I mean, it was grey af, but it was chill.
Then suddenly you got fire and bam, you have Disparity. Heat and cold, life & death, and (of course) light & dark all suddenly pop off. Sounds very sinful to me.
It seems like you didn't even convince yourself of your theory in the end there.
I was just disappointed in Gwyn is all. =/
@@TheAshenHollow Yeah, he hasn't exactly been the best dad has he? His track record with his kids is less than exemplary.
@@weinerman Agreed. Gwyn did Solaire dirty.
Gwyn opened pandoras box bruh
@Fresh Beginnings Nothingness is pretty chill afaict.
Your idea was another I was thinking of as a possibility. Again, another sin revolving around The Fire.
Great to see you giving DS2 some love! Keep up the great work!
Yuuuuuus some of that spicy dark souls lore. Like the voice you put for the demon vid as well. Bravo
Pretty sure Gwyn cursing humanity was the First Sin. From Aldia himself:
"Once, the Lord of Light banished Dark, and all that stemmed from humanity, and men assumed a fleeting form. These are the roots of our world."
Well the "First Sin" in the Context of DS2 is indeed the linking of the Fire by Gwyn, violating the natural order by doing so.
The term "Sin" is used in the Souls-Franchise also on different occassions, because, well a lot of horrible stuff happened,
but it is clear that Aldia's dialogue points towards Gwyns betrayal of the natural order, and he (Aldia) is even referenced as the "Scholar of the First Sin" referencing his research on the nature of the world and if linking the flame or abandon it are the only two options (he gives us a third one in his ending, concluding his research).
The witch of Izalith becoming the Bed of Chaos may be a terrible "Sin" that predates the "First Sin", but the "first" in this occurence is not to be taken literal.
Wich you did. Wich i find funny.
so glad to see ds2's lore getting some love
Aldia and Vendrick are honestly some of the most interesting characters in the series to me, along with Darklurker. This has presented some interesting perspectives that I likely never would have thought of myself. I won't lie though, when you showed the cleric demon's skull next to the warlock helm I was kinda sitting there like "WHAT?!?". As it was actually surprising. I would have never saw that link between that enemy and that piece of equipment. I don't know if you or someone else noticed that detail, but whoever noticed has an insanely good eye.
I still believe that Gwyn lighting the first flame is the first sin. Yes what the Witch of Izalith did altered nature and created chaotic beings, however what Gwyn did cursed the entire world and all of humanity.. a curse that will last much longer than the Chaos Flame and any demon.
It's not about which sin is greater though, it's about which was first. And the events of Izalith happened before Gwyn linked the Flame.
@@TheAshenHollow I thought that the creation of the chaos flame was an accident though and even if some real good came out of it on the other hand Gwyn actively cursed humanity and prolonged the age of fire and breaking the natural cycle of the world.
@@malachireeves9572 It was by accident, just a mistake on Izalith's part.
@@TheAshenHollow okay.. Seath betraying his own predates the Linking, AND the creation of the Chaos Flame.
"Hey, Gwyn, just on the off chance that you wanted to eradicate nearly every single member of my race, maybe enslave a couple of them to watch over your enemies and just really establish knighthood's greatest calling as the systematic killing of my species, just use lightning!"
Gwyn: *vince mcmanus gifs*
@@kevinguevara4853 Yeah but he's a dragon, he doesnt really count towards humanoids culture.
I’ve always assumed the first sin to be “The Sin of Want.” Want being something desired and often at great cost and disregard for the consequences.
If you're going for the literal first sin, surely that would be either the dragons subjugating the stone world or the lords murdering all of them?
The "first sin" in game seems to explicity point towards Gwyn cursing humanity.
Doesn't the sin of Seath the scaleless predate all this? He betrayed his own and made a deal with Gwyn.
Oh, also a good point dude! =]
Aldia was obsessed with dragons. This seems plausible.
Just because Seath's sin didn't have as large an impact on the world (which could actually be argued) doesn't mean it wouldn't/couldn't be the first sin. People gotta stop trying to argue that point, lol. It's about the FIRST sin, not the most grievous.
@@TheAshenHollow not to mention, if seath had not betrayed his own kind gwyn never would have beat the dragons. Even with all the power of the lord souls, seath telling gwyn about their weakness was key to the start of everything.
Well, if we're going chronologically, could "stealing" the lord souls be considered the first sin?
Dark souls lore keeping me from going hollow during this cursed pandemic thing.
Aldia and Vendrick's expanded lore in SOTFS makes DS2 my fav Souls game.. I've put far more time into that than any other Souks game. Despite some poor design decisions, and frustrating gankfests, it really is an incredible experience. Those DLC's are top notch too. I love the story behind the Ivory King, such a badass!
IMO the first sin is the Gods overthrowing the natural rule of the ancient dragons. It also explains why the Firstborn turned against the gods, and why Velka rebelled.
"With the strength of Lords, THEY challenged the dragons" or so it goes right? Makes you look at the Dragon Head trophy room in Anor Londo a lot differently, did you really need to hang up 50+ dragon heads Gwynn?
I believe the "First Sin" was the Defilement of Nature and the cycle which BOTH Gwen and the Witch of Izalith committed in their own separate ways but are ultimately the same sin:
The Witch did the sin first was trying to create flame which ended up causing chaos which is a defilement of nature as chaos and being made from it shouldn't exist and by trying to recreate the flame she defiled the cycle to a minor degree.
Gwen also did the first sin by binding man and thus the whole world to a defiled both nature and the cycle.
The first sin is what they both did not when they did it. The Witch was the first sinner but Gwen is a greater sinner of the same sin.
I thought the "First Sin" was a reference to how Gwyn created the curse that linked humanity to fire. Humanity which is naturally dark, now forced to sacrifice for the age of fire.
How about that time Gwyn and Co massacred the dragons? or Seath betraying his own kind?
The simplest thing I can think of is combining the two. The first sin was that those with the Lord Souls attempted to pervert the natural cycle. Izalith failed and made demons, Gwyn somewhat succeeded until the world became ash.
Or perhaps it was their mistreatment and betrayal of their human knights near the beginning.
For me it seems like the same sin was repeated several time (linking of fire), hence the word 'first' was referred for the first linking of fire.
So the first sinner seems to be Gywn after all.
Nice theory btw
I always felt that Gwyn cursing humanity as the first sin wasn't exactly spot on.
Now after watching this I can totally subscribe to this explanation.
As always, you made my day, thank you J.
Damn i love me some DS2 vids
The first sin is the coop/hidden boss fight in the Ivory King DLC, as well as the path to get there.
Such a shame that DS2 didn't get proper development time and resources after they had to scrap the original version and then repurpose the stuff they'd already made. To me, DS2 hints at far more interesting things. A Dragon Mansion dedicated to researching dragons and the curse. A king pouring his resources into finding out more about souls, light and dark, etc. Basically it's about humans trying to understand the world they inherited and the "deep curse" (which was the theme of DS2 according to Yui Tanimura in the Design Works) that they shoulder.
DS3 might be the better game and better sequel, but DS2 to me feels original and like a creative expansion upon DS1. Oh what could have been... yes indeed...
I think the Lords and friends are the same species as humans and the first sin is them hoarding their souls to be gods, unlike the Furtive Pygmy, who's a cool dude
It always makes my night start out great when I get on RUclips at the start of my shift and see a new dark souls video you created. So thank you so much!
And I can't believe I never questioned the 1st sin. Ever.
I'm disappointed in myself for dropping the ball on this topic...
Thanks, buddy!
And it's fine, it's easy to do that with a lot of stuff in Dark Souls! =]
Imo the first sin pertains to the sins of the gods in general, such as the war against the arch dragons, Seath's betrayal, Gwyn's horrible parenting, the sealing of the dark souls and subsequent undead curse, the chaos flame, and the linking of the fire. All of which come from the hubris of the lords.
Or perhaps it was their reluctance to share their souls as the pygmy did, only giving parts of their souls to people who possessed a powerful soul of their own.
Perhaps by the time Aldia came into existence, the many sins of the gods where expunged from history, but their effects on the nature of the world where still obvious, leading aldia to underestimate how sinful and self destructive the gods where.
Love your vid and it gives a lot to think on. For me, the first sin would be Gwyn branding the seal of fire onto humanity itself, thus forever sealing off what we could be.
Izalith's actions I've never seen as a sin, only a correction of the life soul which in itself was a choice, not a sin.
But Izalith's actions are condemned as a sin on more than one occasions? And choices can be sins? I'm a little confused at the counter-argument. o_O
@@TheAshenHollow Izalith's action's are a sin according to Gwyn and his allies? But yes, my argument on choice was poor. However, I still saw the Ring Knights creation happening before the Chaos Flame.
I can see both sides but I agree in my head cannon the first sin was the branding of the humans, and the creation of the undead curse in general. Yes the witch of izalith is branded a sinner, a one should be if one is trying to dampen change in the world, but I believe that the branding of the humans came first. Thankfully this lore is so open to interpretation there is room for all of our head cannons! (All souls/Borne is connected you can't convince me other wise lmao kidding)
I always thought that aldia was the king's younger brother
It's kind of hard to say what was the first sin. Like to me I would probably think one of the first sins was Humanity outright claiming war on the dragons and just killing them out right.
It was never explained it the Dragons Were evil to mankind. Or even to the Gods. The gods just immediately claimed War as soon as they got their lord Souls.
And before somebody comes out and says well then what do you explain the dragons now a day that try to attack us. Well think about it your whole species destroyed and erased from history by gods and humans wouldn't you at that point have a huge hatred towards anything that represented the human and try to destroy it at that point?
I think, though again we have almost nothing to go on, that the stone dragons were more forces of nature than individual beings. If there was nothing but dragons on the surface, the only interactions were between dragons of immense power. Almost every dragon we fight is a descendent or already wounded, never a peak creature from the before time. There is no hint of a larger society outside what we k ow of Seath, and his defect may have been what made him so strongly an individual. Regardless if the dragons were hostile, i think the conflict was inevitable because gwyn wished to remake the world for nondragons. I always think of the memory we visit in DS2, the dragon corpse. The entire world around it seems in Flux, as if the laws of reality are shifting. In my mind, that's the moments where gwyn and the lords are reshaping the world.
@@danp4998 and that's completely understandable I was just saying that maybe the dragons weren't all evil in might have not been so terrible.
But like you said we have no evidence to prove that they weren't evil or hsd extreme powers that prevented anybody besides dragons to live near them.
Because it does say the only thing that existed back in the old times was Grand Crags Grand trees in Everlasting dragons. I mean there's also missed everywhere to but I think that was just a little nudge to Demon Souls.
I think I saw it in a comment on one of Vaati’s videos, but I really like the idea that the first sin was existence itself.
I saw the video like 20 min after it dropped, but had to save it for when I was fixing to crash. Something about just laying down, listening to dark souls lore makes my mind feel at peace. Thank you Jake the Ashen Hollow 👍🏼
And thank you for watching! =D
Pyromancy is the art of controlling a flame, in the case of Aldia, he’s controlling the flame of the bonfire in the fight, not the Chaos flame like the witches did to create chaos pyromancy.
Aldia’s entire plot in DS2 is to question you if following what Gwyn did is actually the right thing, same with the opposite, from this:
“Peace grants men the illusion of life. Shackled by falsehoods, they yearn for love, unaware of its grand illusion. Until, the curse touches their flesh. We are bound by this yoke. As true as the Dark that churns within men. All men trust fully the illusion of life. But is this so wrong? A construction, a facade, and yet…A world full of warmth and resplendence. Young Hollow, are you intent on shattering the yoke, spoiling this wonderful falsehood?”
I think the First Sin is the way that the humans believe in this “illusion”. That started when Gwyn cursed them. Only by answering “yes” to this question Aldia will appear as the final boss. He states that he failed in spoiling this illusion so he studied that and he has more dialogue referring to the nature of life.
He's controlling the flame through sorcery, just as the witches did. As well as pyromancies were created in Aldian rights.
Sorry, I just don't buy the idea that the debate should be made up on which sin was worse, when we're talking about which came first. And the events of Izalith easily predate the linking of the Fire and cursing Humanity, and is condemned as a sin multiple times.
Aldia appears as the final boss no matter what you say, as long as you took Vendrick’s soul.
The bonfire is a chaos flame.
"It was a flame of chaos, undoubtably, tangled by a witch's hand. But who's to say the bonfire is any different" - Cornyx on Izalith (lightly paraphrased)
Also you can see the red flame and the black of humanity in the flame in DS2.
My take; Velka is a chaos witch who
was studied by Aldia (Aldia Warlock, Gargoyle, Monastery Guardian (Ng+), [Aldia's Keep])
Note also that the drakekeepers wear black armour like Eygon, and have weapons bearing a hex motif. They harbor the pardoners set behind a Pharros wall.
The First Sin (as fundamental flaw) is simple defiance against cyclical nature of world. Dragons were first victims/perpetrators of it when one of them, Seath The Scaleless figured out that their immortality (I guess to age) was not innate, but property of their scales. Maybe Seath had become ill and lost his scales and thus started to age and wither. Gwyn followed that Sin by usurping Everlasting Dragons because he coveted their immortality and throne as ruler of Age of Fire. When Everlasting Dragons ruled The First Flame all was in balance as they were immortal and thus immune to its effects. Nito, The Witch of Izalith and Furtive Pygmy were his allies as they were more attuned with natural forces of world and Gwyn had subjugated Four Kings to serve him. There were some Dragons who surrendered to Gwyn's authority like Sinh, Kalameet and Midir´or at least refused to take sides.
The Abyss (or Dark) was result of Pygmy doing research about unknown potential and eventually one of them (Manus, Father of Darkness) found way to harness untapped power of everybody and everything. Gwyn of course was very afraid of that and with diplomacy and sacrificing his youngest daughter, Filianore he coaxed Pygmies to keep their knowledge hidden and Midir to keep it at bay. Manus had left Ringed City and was eventually captured and reappeared in Oolacile ages later only to die by Artorias (in written history) who died as well. Gwyn considered to be just and good ruler of world and even the idea of something in him being ruthless and brutal was insulting to him. Thus The Abyss links well with Jungian psychology.
Gwyn being unsuitable for The First Flame (not being a Dragon) his sanity eventually withered and as mortal was source of existence (The First Flame is lynchpin of reality) there could be no true death. With this Undead Curse links to Tolkien's Legendarium where Elves (in a sense superior creatures) are bound to World while Humans just pass through it free to affect it to good or ill. Gwyn's usurpation of First Flame bound humans to World and as human soul (mind) is unable to endure such strain it leads to madness (hollowing).
Aldia in a sense links to Buddhist view of Enlightening which takes man separate from endless cycle. His research and understanding its eventual futility gave him way to flow with the undead curse. Instead of struggling against it or futilely trying to hasten it he just drifts through.
I'm pretty sure the First Sin was when Gwyn betrayed the Natrual Cycle of the world (age of Grey, age of the Sun, then age of Dark), to continue his Age of Fire, at the expense of the dark soul.
Great video man. Always loved your lore videos.
You're too kind! =D
"Gwen a mother fucker tho"
Truer words have never been spoken.
Perhaps the first sin wasn’t the two theories you have given us but one of the first acts of Gwen. The killing of all the immortal dragons and shifting the world form stagnation into the world we know.
First means the earliest, not the most grievous.
It could just be some hollow husk (before the lord-souls were discovered and shortly after fire came into being) snatching another's shiny rock.
But with known major events that could be called sins, From the advent of disparity until Gwyn guzzles some gasoline and takes a smoke break.
Taking the lordsouls (a bit minor all they really did is pick up some shiny things the found in a fire.)
Challenging the dragons.
Seath's betrayal.
Exterminating the rest of the dragons.
Seath begins "experimenting" At some point he sticks his "crystal halberd into Gwyneveres gaping dragon"
Gwyn locking up a bunch of pygmies and his daughter up somewhere at the end of the world
Witch of Izalith trying to replicate the first flame.
Gwyn using himself as firewood.
The natural definition for sin in dark-souls seems to be trying to control the cycle, or resist the natural order.
I have a theory that Aldia is secretly the reincarnation of Vamos
I know this is old but just had a thought-
Before the Chaos flame, before Filianore or the curse, before even Seathe turned traitor Gwyn sealed the humans armor with a ring of fire out of fear of the abyss. Couldn't that be the first Sin?
It's entirely possible the first sin was the dark sign placed on the ringed knights. We know that the gods and humans fought the dragons but we do not know when Seathe defected or when the humans armor was branded. Either of these could be the first sin.
Arguably the first Sin could be when the Lords found their souls. With the main 3 we see them seize the souls and then unleash their power, with the Pygmy we see him find it on the ground almost like it was waiting for him. It's entirely possible that the only Lord that was meant to get a soul was the pygmy and the other three souls were meant for someone else but were taken by beings unworthy.
On a side note does anyone ever wonder if the abyss we see in the games is actually the abyss? Or did Gwyn rename it to that so humans would never look for the true abyss in which they crafted their weapons and armor in?
Lost Sinner is actually the banished loved one of Yhorm the giant, the lost sinner created the profaned flame in a corrupted attempt of the bug of chaos to stablish a new body.
not much to reference here, but the most important thing to me is the aristocrats statue found in lost bastile in a dark room. same design that the one's in the profaned capitol, that i don't recall seeing them in any other place in the games. we also see the guardians in the lost bastile, the ruin sentinels. as his armor says, theyre just illusions, created by a jailer. in the ringed city, which we can consider a prison for the pigmies, we see the same design used as an illusion to protect something.(we also see them at drangleic castle protecting whats beneath them, an entrance to the old abyss)
jailers-profanity-sin the profaned capitol is basically beneath a huge prison
or at least that's my theory :).
So it does make sense that the first sin was the attempt to create a new flame by the witches of izalith, more so cosidering the shape of Aldia, he's basically roots and branches (like the everlasting archtrees) same as the bed of chaos
Nice vid!
Thanks, Sin! =D
The First Sin was Gwyn's branding of the Ringed Knights. That action separated the humans from the Dark and changed the course of nature. The Ringed Knights are weak to dark and wield Fire weapons, which doesn't make much sense if they were created to fight dragons. It's more likely that Gwyn's first dark sign fundamentally changed the nature of those early humans, and opened the door for the Way of White to replicate the same process and create their undead (as we learn the first known undead was Paladin Leeroy from DS1). We also know Vendrick and Aldia knew about the Ringed City, because of their Ruin Knight armor we find in the Ringed City, which references Vendrick.
The creation of the Chaos Flame didn't occur until long after the Dragon Wars, so the timeline doesn't add up with Izalith's sin being the first. The Lost Sinner's story is independent of the Chaos Flame. She's an Eleum Loyce Priestess, who likely created an independent imitation of the First Flame under her city. That's why we don't find any Chaos Demons in Eleum Loyce. The Sinner's Chaos is different from the Witch's.
I really love you new into!
Thanks dude! =D
Idk if you've made a video about this but, what is the lore behind illusory walls? Who is making them. They are in all souls games. Is it patches? Is it a secret covenant of wizard jesters trolling adventurers? What kind of sorcery is applied? Oolacile's light bending sorcery to make it look like there's a wall? Or something else? I am interested to say the least
I believe that the first sin was the coveting of the dark soul by velka and the furtive Pigmies but this is a new light on the subject due to the information brought forth. Thanks for the vid @theashenhollow
Izalith definitely makes sense and is arguably one of the first very bad things an NPC did in the story... but the thing I like about the First Sin being the "gift" of the Ringed City is that it's not just a very bad thing for the creatures involved. Its also messing with the fabric of existence. Gwin sinned in a way that ultimately didn't just doom humanity, it meant the eventual end of all things by disrupting the flow of fire and dark. The Witches might have been the first sin but Gwin was the worst sin.
I don't disagree that Gwyn's deeds wrought more devastation upon the world. Heck, the Witch probably even had better intentions than Gwyn did!
Short and... sweet? lol although, this does support the narrative that the Witch of Izalith was Velka..! Also, I love how the Ruin Knights, whom the sentinels were erected in honor, were found in the Ringed City, "...so soundly crushed, they had little choice but to swear themselves to the Judicator Giant." So Vendrick was aware of the Ringed City and even possibly attempted to obtain the Dark Soul, possibly placing DS2's Drangleic in the "time of yore". Maybe the lost sinner was the witch of izalith... if so, and if Velka... certainly was skilled with a blade... sry, lol I know perhaps a burly bearded Velka isn't your ideal vision lolll... probly nothing there anyway.
Damn I totally forgot about the DS2 reference in the Ringed City. That’s some lore right there son
First sin - Gwyn's wife leaves him and becomes the Goddess of sin, helping his enemy take him down, forcing him to kindle the flame.
Loved it ... dare i say your lore videos rival that of a Mr Vidya ... keep em coming my friend i cant get enough
=D
You could argue izalith's creation of a flame wasn't a sin. She tried making her own and wasn't intentionally damning anyone. Gwyn linking the fire to humanity causing the undead curse however was perpetrated with the intent to screw over the natural Inheritors of the world. Gwyn knew what he was doing and the damage it would cause making it a true sin. Otherwise if we count izalith's flame as a sin we could say the gods usurping the dragons is one too.
The first sin was Gwyn and the gods sealing away the dark and branding men/the very world with the seal of fire. Aldia says it himself, and the ringed city makes it pretty apparent. As does the eclipse in dark souls 3.
"Once the lord of light banished dark and all that stems from humanity. These are the roots of our world..."
The roots. The beginning. The first sin. The world of fire was made with sin. By banishing the dark.
The sin was the attempt to create a soul from fire and not love. Love rejuvenates and is cyclical. It gives birth to itself. Fire is exhaustive, until ashen. Fire consumes, what gives life; breath. Fire turns inward on itself while it tries to reach outward. Like the hallow who once possessed an inner light. Dark souls is a world devoid of love.
Such a great channel
Consider the idea that sins are not just actions. Sins are what we are, what we feel, what we think.
In this way, Gywn very likely committed the first sin. He was probably first to realize that the Fire would eventually fade, and Light (His power/life) would give way to Dark. The very moment he feared and resented this realization/outcome was the First Sin.
It’s not about how he cursed humanity and caused all the following degradation and ruin. The First Sin is the refusal to admit your own end, to rebel against what is natural and inevitable. This ensuing struggle to force something to last forever has resulted in a longer era, a longer life, but it has also caused immeasurable suffering.
Conversely, at the very least, it was Gwyn that encouraged the Witches to attempt to create a new Fire, or was well aware of it and did nothing to prevent them from making a mistake. Gwyn still commits sin before the Witches, because his fear is what perpetuates the thought or feeling that the Fire *should* go on forever, instead of fading away naturally. I can’t imagine the Witches would really care if the Fire faded, as even without it, Life (the Witches’ souls/power) and Death will still go on, presumably, just in a different way, in the Dark. Gwyn is the one that instigates any cause for the Witches to even investigate nature of the Fire.
So I have several ideas on the first sin.
One of them is that it was the taking of the Lord Souls in the kiln of the first flame. This usurped the natural order and essentially led to everything else that occurred afterwards. In essence, the lords acted against nature, which can be considered a sin.
If that isn't sufficient, we could go down a Rousseauian path and claim that taking the lord souls created inequality, i.e. the pygmies and humans were mistreated or treated as inferiors. An unjust heirarchy was created between gods and man, which can be considered a sin. Down that same vein, the disparity created by the first flame could be the first instance of inequality, but could the first flame itself be a sin? It seems much more likely that harnessing the power given by that disparity could be considered a sin.
If we don't think discovering the lord souls is a sin itself, then the next line of thought leads to the war against the dragons. Perhaps we can assert that betrayal is the first sin. To elaborate, by first sin, I mean "original sin," one that still reoccurs. The first instance is probaly Seath betraying his dragon kin. Perhaps it could be Gwyn and crew betraying the natural order and attacking the dragons. Either way, betrayal is a pretty solid one, and we know for certain Seath was someone who did it probably for the first time ever. However, betrayal itself can happen repeatedly, so I'm led to believe that Gwyn cursing and marking humans is another instance. In essence, betrayal is a theme, and Aldia could be speaking about it as a whole.
Truly, we can't know. However, it is fun to speculate and propose ideas, and I enjoy hearing your and the comment section's thoughts on this topic.
The first sin was that getting possessed by the Abyss giving one hardcore parkour skills
you forget one importante thing, gwin make the mark before izalith, even try to prolong the fire linking bonfire to the first flame, when he was is despair izalith try to replicatated the first flame but fail, maybe the second great sinm or even the first sin in the perspective of the god, but was influence for gwin, i think that is the first sin, gwin try to extend the age of fire, izalith is just causualities for gwin sin
What if the first sin was way before Gwyn extending the age of fire, maybe when the lord souls were found. Aldia says that the lord of light banished the dark and all that stemmed from humanity and that men assumed a fleeting form. Men assuming a fleeting form and Gwyn banishing the dark happened when they found the lord souls. The opening cinematic of Dark Souls establishes that the beings who would go on to become the 4 lords initially came from the dark. So what if the first sin was taking the lord souls from the first flame, something that didn't inherently belong to them?
Except the dark sign would have been layed on humanity during or at the end of the Dragon War, possibly represented by the statue in the Ringed City. The Witches mistake happened AFTER the age of the Gods had been established, because she did it in an attempt to counter the fading first flame. Great video anyway, now I'm thinking about Flame Sorceries and how to fit that together! Edit - aldia is weilding the flame from the bonfires, thats whag he was experimental on and its what he exists as a part of
A ring of fire was placed upon the weapons and armor of the Dark during the war with the dragons. But the humans wouldn't be branded with the darksign until the Flame was linked.
There also isn't any evidence that the Witch attempted these things in response to the fading flame. In fact, most signs point to the events of Izalith happening well before that! =]
Mmm. Can't say that I dig this theory. Mostly because Aldia speaks of what the Lord of Light(Gwyn) did. Not the Witch of Izalith. The 'Lost Sinner' could in fact be named for what they did in the current time line and not for what the Lord Soul gifted to them was. Much like the Iron King, who is hardly like Gwyn in many respects. I still think the first linking of the fire is the First Sin in this case.
The events of Izalith are condemned as a sin on more than one occasion, and that happened before Gwyn linked the Flame. I can't buy that just because Aldia mentions Gwyn in a sentence that his actions have to be the First Sin. Especially considering how connected to Flame and Chaos Aldia is.
@@TheAshenHollow It wasn't the Witch's actions that changed the logic of the world and was covered up by a monarch creating a system to enslave the destiny of a race though. Everyone reviles the demons for their appearance and parasitic life and thus would have created the legend of Izalith being a sinner for her manipulating fire while Gwyn was left squeaky clean because he had already put the church in place to spin that. Especially since he went to war with Izalith. I think it comes down to perspective and who is the one saying that the old soul sinned. As far as Aldia, he was experimenting with all sorts of stuff and gave no cares as to what he used or the results. It seems he was intrinsically linked to Flame without burning up. So maybe he did the same thing as Izalith?
I'm not saying what Gwyn did is or isn't better or worse than what happened in Izalith. I'm just saying the events of Izalith happened before Gwyn linked the Fire. So the linking of the Fire couldn't be the first, because Izalith already happened.
And yeah I think that's exactly what Aldia did, and in result he because a corporeal form of the flame itself. Even after his "death" we still hear him talking to us.
Goated souls lore channel
Oh you! =D
I've never played these games nor do I know anyone that has and yet here I am. Thanks, RUclips!
Haha, that's crazy! I've never understood RUclips's algorithm!
Even older Sins, Seath Betraying the Dragons. Genociding the Dragons the true Lords of the Earth. And maybe even the discovery of the Soul, or the Lord Souls could have been perceived as the First Sin.
I cannot agree. The first sin is more "the sin that is the origin of", "the sin from which it all started". (For those knowing japanese I'd like to know the real words and their precise meaning). Aldia was first studying the curse and the way to end it, so he logically searched for what triggered it. The triggger of the curse is for sure not the chaos flame.
The gwyn theory makes more sense although it may reffer to the end of the primordial order of the dragons.
the first sin was the first death of a dragon. aldia is studying dragons and trying to recreate them and killing one would be most heinous
very interesting, but what if the famously referenced 'first sin' is actually commited by none of the characters in the story/game/lore, but was commited by the Great Old One. By dreaming of a world that exists, where exixtence is pain, and corruption is the only remedy. Maybe by the end of Demon's Souls (maybe even before), the first sin has already been commited. The products of that cosmic mistake are the inhabitants of the world. From Gwyn, Aldia, Vendrick, Seathe, Witch of Izalith, Greater and lesser demons, clerics, religion, bandits, hollows, the brand of the curse, undeath, prophecies, and most importantly, the player characters. WE are the first sin.
I never realized how angry you sound about Gywn at the end of this. 😂🤣
I feel like aldia should have made a appearance in Dark Souls 3 like when you fight Gael because light dark nor the old gods not even the chaos and the abyss had hold over the world anymore and I think that's the closest the world of Dark Souls has ever gotten to returning to the beginning where the world was empty and grey and I believe Lord of hollows ending it's also similar to when the pygmies first arose but of course they would not assume a fleeting form and that is a great cycle such is the world of Dark Souls I suppose
: Edit : this is just a theory also nice intro
Aldia in DS3 would have been fucking awesome for sure!!
Yeah but dark souls 2 is all about the undead curse building up to becoming the monarch, and Aldia follows you along the way. I feel like it may not be explicitly stated that linking the fire was a sin but I think that's what Aldia is alluding to. Maybe we can look at the translations for further confirmation (LokeyDS)?
And by the only one that absolutely 100% hated Aldia's voice? Dude sounded like he was underwater and if it wasn't for subtitles I cannot understand anything he says
Which voice?
If I am remembering correctly aldia has 3 voices layered on top of each other(A man's voice, A women's voice and i forget what the 3rd is).
The artificial prolonging on the age of light by Gwyn is definitely the first sin aldia.
Nah.
Hmmm maybe there is a higher being who created life in the first place? Maybe that could be the first sin never thought too much into it but it popped into my head. Probably more gwyn.
I'm pretty sure the Pygmies were allies of the Gods until the first sin. They were allied with the Gods while they were fighting the dragons
So Gwyn didn't give his daughter to his enemies. He gave her to his allies
I think Gwynn’s linking of the fire should still be considered the first sin. Think about it this way. The Witch, in manipulating her soul, created something new, chaos is inherently in line with the themes of disparity, so new things being born in the ages of disparity seems like simply following the course of nature. Gwyn linking the flame, however, resists the cycle. It prolongs the age of Fire and snuffs out the age of dark. Nothing changes from age to age because of the fire linking, and what was supposed to be one of the ages of disparity begins looking like yet another age of ancients, where one powerful race rules over the others with near impunity and nothing changes or moves forward properly. I think DS3’s ashen setting is pretty poignant in this case, because we see that the fire has burned for so long that we have been thrust back into an age of gray, only this time it’s ash instead of fog.
The Witches actions claimed lives, destroyed a kingdom, is condemned as a sin on more than one occasion, and happened well before Gwyn linked the Fire. I just can't get onboard with Rekindling the Flame being the First Sin, when it wasn't first.
Poor dragons tho! Does nobody think of how almost everyone excluded and don't give a fuck about dragons in any age? Thats sad
The thing is, though, that Gwyn trapped humanity in the ring of fire well before the witch tried to create her own flame. So that sin would have been first, no?
The weapons and armor of the Dark were sealed with a ring of fire. But the branding of humans with the darksign wouldn't have happened until Gwyn linked the Flame.
Jake you could be considered a Scholar of The First Sin!
Haha, you not wrong Az! ;)
@@TheAshenHollow let's goo!
I always thought the first sin was the first attempt at dark souls 2. Scholar of the first sin was learning from a not well received debut
Gwyn: I have my hands full of all these great sins ... just which one should be first?
If you pay close attention to Aldias dialogue, the first sin was actually the taking of the the lord souls, and wrongly claiming themselves as gods.
If you want a rabbit hole I would go down the how they stole these souls from sleeping gods guarded by dragons.
false gods i knew it
Huh
So they found the lord souls in the first flame. If they did “steal” them from sleeping gods, then maybe “linking” the flame has something to do with keeping them asleep. Or it is an offering to them in some way.
I always thought “linking” was an ambiguous word to use. A being with, one could argue, the most souls in the land offering themselves to some flame that shapes the world. Sounds like some real BloodeBorne type shit to me homeboy
@@Bhubnipz I would more think linking the flame is once the souls are linked it returns life to the gods sustaining the world in its current state. The flame is likely the gods souls burning to fuel the world state.
I don't think your returning the same lord souls to the gods, I think it's more likely your simply returning fragments. As has been said many times these lord souls can be split.
Love the video but one mistake my dude: Evidence of other fire sorcerers, that reskinned flamey demon boi from Izalith.
Edit- Evidence: Demon catalyst formed from Izalith molten rock. Can be used as fire weapon. The Demon Firesage was the first demon, and the last master of the original fire arts, before the Witch of Izalith was engulfed by Chaos, creating pyromancy.
I believe that the first sin is immortality itself this theme runs throught all trhee characters
The first sin was the killing of the dragons. Everything in the lore starts with that deed. As the dragons died out the world ages rapidly. In lothric castle their are statues correspondent with the knight,priestess,scholar,and king. But instead of the blackhand kamui getting a statue frampt has one. Imo frampt/kaathe were the kings black hand along with the darklord,thus the name of dark hand. I believe the nameless king,darklord,and havel's the rock realized that they were lied to by seathe and led an army back to the kingdom. In lothric castle you come across the farram knight, wizard with dusk crown and kamui. By their placement one would assume the are enemies but really they are the ones fighting against that army. The nameless kings,darklord ,and havel's all fail in there coup against gwyn. Nameless is banished and stripped of titles his kingdom of formosa is destroyed, havel is locked in a tower his knight are disbanded for treason,and the dark lord has a seal of fire placed on him(seal of fire in my opinion is sl matchmaking as the souls becomes more powerful it is restricted from contact with people thus slowing the age of man because it will be harder for the more powerful humans to coordinate) and his people forced into eternal servitude(shackles of gods). Seathe and gwynever give birth to Priscilla her life hunt ability puts fear into the gods as it's the same power as the dark lord. Whom we come to find out is also half dragon half god( "true dragon"hawkwood, untrue dark ring makes you appear young"immortal ala dragon). Placing the seal of fire on top of the darksoul backfires it ends up twisting and making the darksoul more powerful turning her into the bed of chaos and creating demons. Gwyn barely makes it out alive. When he returns to anor londo he finds out that years have passed. His four knights are scattered across the realm Artorias and Ciarian have headed too oolicile to slow the spreading of the dark, Gough has gone completely blind and is in retirement, ornstein has abandoned his post in anor londo in search of his king. Placing the seal on the dark lord also had an unexpected result on that it completely erases his memory. Gwyn realizes that the dark lord is truly immortal and can never die. This he comes up with a plan to link the dark lord to the age of fire itself directly through the linking of flame. Has the dark lord sent to the asylum to spend eternity locked away while he takes what's left of his army to the kiln. Along the way to the kiln they ambushed by a red drake on a bridge. Three of his knight stay behind to insure his escape to the kiln( undead parish bk,undead burg ,and darkroom bk). They make it to the kiln where gwyn links the first flame. Linking the fire has a unexpected side effect for gwyn and his black knights. It prolongs the age of fire but the ones sacrificed are reincarnated. Gwyn is reincarnated as Gael and in twist of fate becomes slave to the very people he cursed. The dark lord goes on his journey this the beginning of ds1.
If you would spend a little more time making a better narration of this and explaining it a little better, it could be a very good theory, anyway, good points!
no wonder logan went insane.
how about ending the everlasting dragons as the first sin, a symbol of taking over "the natural order"
The first sin is simply the thought of hollow humans not being in their natural state. I guess that fire and life corrupted everyone and humans forgot that their natural state is something that they fear the most, going Hollow. People of Londor worship exactly this, going hollow on purpose and stating that this is the true state of man. The normal state of a human was never "a human", rather a hollow being with no purpose wandering endlessly and attempting to slaughter everything in its path. This is the first sin
What if Aldia isn't a name but a title? Like theres aldia the place and then whoever is in charge of the place, earns the title of 'Aldia'. Would that then mean that the aldia we meet isnt the same aldia that did the experiments and the scholar we meet had nothing to do with the experiments?
The question is whose sin? The human or God...? How come a God sinned? This is something vague in the game. in DS1 Velka is Goddess of Sin and Gwyndolin have a covenant to punish those who sinned. The difference between the two is we never see Velka, only her sword in the Painted World. We can literally see Gwyndolin but by that we will be attacked and be labelled as a "heretic". So now, what sin and whose sin?
First Sin was deez
Aldia said it himself at 0:12
associating everything with Velka is the first sin
I think that finding the first flame was the First sin. The whole world changed right after.
That certainly could be!
I have an unhealthy obsession with dark Souls lore. When is Miyazaki gonna release the dark souls Silmarillion that includes all the world's lore?
Never. It is not coherent or even semi-consistent. A skilled writer would be needed to assemble those pieces which all were crafted with no regards towards other pieces.
If ever, it would be many years after the series went dormant for good. And even then, Miyazaki seems like he might be ideologically opposed. Plus he knows sometimes the lore doesn't fit and just days "the community will come up with multuple theories!"