This video describes the start procedure for a TBM 900, both when using the battery and with a GPU. Daher has a great video on this here: • TBM 900 Engine Start
Jason, as a full time TBM instructor for a few years I must say you did an excellent job explaining a very complexed event in a task saturated environment! Keep up the good work. www.GoldbergAviation.com
@@abrar380 I would guess it's direct because the prop is moving almost immediately after putting the starter on. I know my answer is one year off but... Maybe the owner can confirm.
Having never sat in a running turboprop aircraft I find the care and feeding of this engine fascinating. I was talking with a guy that owns a fleet of Ag Tractors at a local airport in Coushatta Louisiana a few months ago. I note as I pulled up to the hanger 3 ATs waiting to be loaded. The 4th airplane was in the air somewhere close by. Over near the corner of the ramp is a beautiful TBM 850. This is the owner's personal flying machine. The aroma of burning Jet-A filled the air. It was a 70-degree day with little to no wind. Those guys were amazing with the speed, accuracy, and professionalism on the ground. Dude was very friendly. I had a thousand questions but I caught myself and kept them to a minimum. He seemed to enjoy my enthusiasm on the subject. They broke for lunch. One of the ground crew went to a local burger barn and picked up lunch for everyone. Even asked me if I would like a burger. I digress. I was a little perplexed when all four ag tractors were sitting idle after everyone secured their airplanes. I asked about this. I was told considering the relatively short amount of time they will be sitting idle it was okay. Then I note the wind kicked in just a tad. The wind was striking the 6 O'clock of the planes. My entire education of turbine engine care and feeding is from watching SteveO and his adventures on RUclips. I asked about a possible hot-start with the wind hitting the ass end of the airplane. He tells me he takes this into consideration at each startup. This is a long way around the barn to get to my question. While you guys are flying the turbines you make subtle power changes whenever required and not very many times in a single flight. I'm assuming ag pilots are making constant power changes keeping an eye on the torque. What happens when you over-torque a turbine engine? Loss of prop RPMs? The exhaust gas's can't escape fast enough? The whole subject is fascinating to me. Thanks!!
Thanks for that!! In cruise I never really touch the power unless I need to deploy the inertial separator. The TBM has a governor that works to prevent over-torquing, so it should help out the pilot if they try to add too much power. Mostly the engine health is concerned with keeping temperatures in check, so if you tried to add too much power without enough air coming in that could be an issue. It uses some 65% of the incoming air for cooling purposes!
First, thank you so much for this video. Second, it was awesome, just as I knew you would be, lots of details and otherwise useful information. I had a smile on my face throughout the vid. I will be looking at this many times. Again, thanks.
like other comments..excellent video and very good explanations. Also like other comments will be nice to zoon on the specific areas you are talking us through... thanks
I'm starting to transition from piston to turboprop also and this was an excellent video. Not only in the aircraft I'm going to be flying but very well explained for someone who is turbine dumb hahaha. Thanks and good job.
Hi Jason, Great video! Thanks. This has cleared up some anomalies I had about the startup procedure. Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020 (just realeased) has a very good TBM930 installed. So there's lot of growing interest in the TBM. I want to learn more about the TBM to produce accurate tutorials for my channel. Anything else on the TBM you can show would be much appreciated. Thanks!
Hi Jason, excellent video, the TBM is an awesome machine. As a jet mechanic, during engine starts on the CF6 engines (767 engines) or the rolls rb211 for the 57’s, after I flip the fuel switch, the first thing I look for is the fuel flow on that engine. Normally I will see around 300 to 500 pounds of fuel flow for a normal start, but if I see something over 1000lbs initially (first indication of a hot start) I will abort the start, shut off fuel, and motor the engine until the fuel is clear. I would love to see a hot start (in a TBM simulator) just to see what the initial fuel flow is.
I could do that if you talked me through it. Just got the TBM 900 X-Plane simulator from HOT START. ruclips.net/video/zlxRrGa-HF4/видео.html You can share my Skype screen and give me instructions to see anything you want… I would be extremely interested to hear any comments you have because this was an expensive model and alleges to be a study level simulator. Contact me through my video. Or here for further conversation. Congratulations and thanks to you, Jason, for this terrific video… But I’m really confused about your comments of Flight Idle feathering the prop...according to my understanding and instructions from HOT START, the right hand side of the “h”, is feathered and the left-hand side the of the “h” is UNFEATHERED flight mode. Chas
I notice on your wing shot you have dimples on your wing, I think one of the TBM videos mentioned that’s due to a clogged vent. Maybe it’s just the camera angle but it may be worth looking into. Thanks for the video.
I don't think there is much difference at all, really. I don't use a flow so much as I just remember what needs to come next and do it when I am 100% sure. After that I run the checklist and find I missed something maybe 5% of the time - though essentially never anything big - always optional stuff. However, when I was first starting out in this plane, or anything new to me, I would use the checklists first - that is how I trained on what to do.
You mentioned Denver at 5000 ft, but in the inlet air temperature was very cold. I’m curious on a hot day at high elevation if the ITT temperature would be more of a concern as opposed to sea level. Great video.
Logan, that is true, with the thinner air, all else being equal, the start would go a little hotter. I haven't seen a huge difference here, but if you were doing a quick stop just to get some fuel, and it was hot outside and high elevation, you'd certainly want to let the ITT cool as much as possible before adding fuel again. Additionally, on takeoff I normally go to 90% torque and let the increasing ram air as I speed up get me close to 100%, however on a high and hot takeoff you have to watch ITT as the limiter instead of torque. And you may want to turn off the inertial separator as your speed builds to get more cooling air in.
I have a simple question but it urges for me to know ... how many hours of single or multi engines piston prop you need to do to be able to fly a TBM? Thx for ansering 😎😉👍🏼
In the US, the insurance companies really drive it - the FAA requires you have your complex, high-performance, and high altitude endorsements but otherwise a normal single engine private certificate is all you need. However to get insured you will need an IFR rating, some reasonable amount of time in a high-perf piston (maybe >500 hrs, though there is no hard and fast rule) and ideally > 1000 hrs total time. They will also require a detailed initial training course and annual recurrent training. I had to do 25 hours of mentor/CFI time at the start also, which served me well.
Here’s a video idea, you could make one explaining how to use the auto pilot (aka Tesla mode). More than once in MS Flight Sim, I would skip the first waypoint in a landing approach and fly direct to the next waypoint. Once I hit the waypoint I selected, rather than proceeding to the next waypoint in the sequence, the TBM would do a 180 like it was heading for the waypoint I sought to skip. I wasn’t sure if that was me not knowing what I’m doing, or a glitch in the sim. Also, while I figured out how to use the heading mode and nav mode, I’m not sure what the approach mode does (but I’m guessing it concerns landing), and I’m not sure what the CRS knob does.
Exterior/airframe/engine are the same - main difference is the Garmin avionics - G1000, vs NXi, vs G3000. Interior has had some tweaks over the years, but mostly minor
Hi Jason, have a question:), when using GPU , after reaching ng54% you stay in lo idle or move to high idle before the guys remove the gpu connector outside? And from hi idle then you proceed to flight idle? Thanks, great video.
Jason so the hi idle only purpose is for the feather process, during start you just pass from lo idle through hi idle directly to flight idle? What’s the other purpose of the hi idle ?
I generally don't use high idle. The exception is at shutdown we set it to high idle for 15 seconds to allow the bearings to cool a bit. And if I need to feather on the ground (to test that process) or to help out someone that needs to get near the plane (to unhook the GPU for example).
After more than half a century of PT-6 improvements, you'd expect to have a "Start" button, which you push before folding your hands in your lap and waiting politely for light-up and idle.
Great video but a suggestion, use multiple cameras and zoom in close on each one and then put all of the views on the screen at once. I could not really see the engine insteuments.
it stays in the left-side for the entire flight (only use the right side of the h pattern for start up and shutdown). When in flight you can refer to the book to find the correct "% torque" setting for a given altitude and temperature aloft, but with the G1000 the gauge has a dynamically calculated box that shows the range of torque from normal to high-power cruise. That range is small at higher altitudes. I normally fly at the bottom of that range, in normal cruise.
Jason yes sir, thank you so much for your informative answer sir. My uncle is looking at a 700/850 or maybe even a 900/930. The TBMs are fantastic aircraft. I’m also from the Austin area. I’m a line guy at KHYI. Come on over to Berry if you ever get the chance. We don’t get enough TBMs over here. Especially not 900s!
At 4:20 you talk about adding fuel by going to low idle but show a shot of the throttle at full power? Struck me as a little odd. Also, when is high idle feather used other than before TO procedures? How often do you use reverse after landing?
Yeah, you're right - was just the best picture I had of the throttle. :( You don't use high idle except for starting (on really cold days) and testing the feathering. I use reverse after landing any time I don't need to roll way down the runway before exiting. It is cheaper to use reverse than to use wheel brakes, within reason. If I have to roll a good ways I may just go into beta, not full reverse, as that kicks up less dirt/rocks.
@@JasonFlies thanks for the reply! I apologize, I hope I didn’t sound critical, it was just a “hey wait a minute” moment for me. I’m surprised reverse is used that much, but very interesting.
Yeah, using FADEC many jets have fully automated starts. The PT6 doesn't have that - no computers involved. GE is working on a competing engine that does have FADEC though so I imagine P&W has doubled down their efforts there now - it's the way of the future - and no doubt way more expensive.
These videos will all be useful when the Hotsart TBM 900 will come out for X-Plane, and of course for all die hard TBM lovers. Your video plus this one is great ruclips.net/video/25xlVkuEYdA/видео.html from Daher
Кино
Jason, as a full time TBM instructor for a few years I must say you did an excellent job explaining a very complexed event in a task saturated environment! Keep up the good work. www.GoldbergAviation.com
Thanks much, that means a lot!
William Goldberg is it a direct or free drive turboprop engine.
@@abrar380 I would guess it's direct because the prop is moving almost immediately after putting the starter on. I know my answer is one year off but... Maybe the owner can confirm.
Now with Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020 going strong you're going to see a lot more traffic from us virtual pilots of TBM 930. :)
I see I'm not the only one.
Having never sat in a running turboprop aircraft I find the care and feeding of this engine fascinating. I was talking with a guy that owns a fleet of Ag Tractors at a local airport in Coushatta Louisiana a few months ago. I note as I pulled up to the hanger 3 ATs waiting to be loaded. The 4th airplane was in the air somewhere close by. Over near the corner of the ramp is a beautiful TBM 850. This is the owner's personal flying machine. The aroma of burning Jet-A filled the air. It was a 70-degree day with little to no wind. Those guys were amazing with the speed, accuracy, and professionalism on the ground. Dude was very friendly. I had a thousand questions but I caught myself and kept them to a minimum. He seemed to enjoy my enthusiasm on the subject. They broke for lunch. One of the ground crew went to a local burger barn and picked up lunch for everyone. Even asked me if I would like a burger. I digress. I was a little perplexed when all four ag tractors were sitting idle after everyone secured their airplanes. I asked about this. I was told considering the relatively short amount of time they will be sitting idle it was okay. Then I note the wind kicked in just a tad. The wind was striking the 6 O'clock of the planes. My entire education of turbine engine care and feeding is from watching SteveO and his adventures on RUclips. I asked about a possible hot-start with the wind hitting the ass end of the airplane. He tells me he takes this into consideration at each startup. This is a long way around the barn to get to my question. While you guys are flying the turbines you make subtle power changes whenever required and not very many times in a single flight. I'm assuming ag pilots are making constant power changes keeping an eye on the torque. What happens when you over-torque a turbine engine? Loss of prop RPMs? The exhaust gas's can't escape fast enough? The whole subject is fascinating to me. Thanks!!
Thanks for that!! In cruise I never really touch the power unless I need to deploy the inertial separator. The TBM has a governor that works to prevent over-torquing, so it should help out the pilot if they try to add too much power. Mostly the engine health is concerned with keeping temperatures in check, so if you tried to add too much power without enough air coming in that could be an issue. It uses some 65% of the incoming air for cooling purposes!
Excellent video, came across this by accident but will now look out for more of your stuff.
First, thank you so much for this video. Second, it was awesome, just as I knew you would be, lots of details and otherwise useful information. I had a smile on my face throughout the vid. I will be looking at this many times.
Again, thanks.
Love this detailed vids. More
Great video! Very interesting, from a non-pilot-- your explanation was very good.
So glad to hear that, thanks!
Thank for this wonderful upload. Very precise and complet
Thank you Jason. Great video
God I love this plane. But even if I didn't, your video was excellent! What I would love to see is some auto pilot action ;)
Great video
like other comments..excellent video and very good explanations. Also like other comments will be nice to zoon on the specific areas you are talking us through... thanks
I'm starting to transition from piston to turboprop also and this was an excellent video. Not only in the aircraft I'm going to be flying but very well explained for someone who is turbine dumb hahaha. Thanks and good job.
Very kind! That was my biggest goal when making this video!
you deserve more subs
Excellent video
Hi Jason, Great video! Thanks. This has cleared up some anomalies I had about the startup procedure. Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020 (just realeased) has a very good TBM930 installed. So there's lot of growing interest in the TBM. I want to learn more about the TBM to produce accurate tutorials for my channel. Anything else on the TBM you can show would be much appreciated. Thanks!
Great video 👌
Really useful video! Thanks
Glad it was helpful!
Very Informative thanks for sharing.
Thanks, mean it. You are humble, starting an IO-550-B is easy even when hot. Nice to watch turbine ops, see ya in the airspace! Again, Thanks.
Thanks so much!
Hi Jason, excellent video, the TBM is an awesome machine. As a jet mechanic, during engine starts on the CF6 engines (767 engines) or the rolls rb211 for the 57’s, after I flip the fuel switch, the first thing I look for is the fuel flow on that engine. Normally I will see around 300 to 500 pounds of fuel flow for a normal start, but if I see something over 1000lbs initially (first indication of a hot start) I will abort the start, shut off fuel, and motor the engine until the fuel is clear. I would love to see a hot start (in a TBM simulator) just to see what the initial fuel flow is.
Great idea, I have not been watching the FF while starting, will try to work that in as well....
I could do that if you talked me through it. Just got the TBM 900 X-Plane simulator from HOT START. ruclips.net/video/zlxRrGa-HF4/видео.html You can share my Skype screen and give me instructions to see anything you want… I would be extremely interested to hear any comments you have because this was an expensive model and alleges to be a study level simulator. Contact me through my video. Or here for further conversation.
Congratulations and thanks to you, Jason, for this terrific video… But I’m really confused about your comments of Flight Idle feathering the prop...according to my understanding and instructions from HOT START, the right hand side of the “h”, is feathered and the left-hand side the of the “h” is UNFEATHERED flight mode.
Chas
300 to 500 pounds for a fuel start?
I'm flying the C510 Mustang and it uses 500PPH only in climb in the 0-FL200 range D:
very good job thanks
Good vid,
Well done and thanks for all the good work! Any chance for you to walk us trough COM, NAV and FLPN setup?
I notice on your wing shot you have dimples on your wing, I think one of the TBM videos mentioned that’s due to a clogged vent. Maybe it’s just the camera angle but it may be worth looking into. Thanks for the video.
Maybe you can do a video talking about the difference between Flow and checklist and how it differs between piston and turbine. Thank you!
I don't think there is much difference at all, really. I don't use a flow so much as I just remember what needs to come next and do it when I am 100% sure. After that I run the checklist and find I missed something maybe 5% of the time - though essentially never anything big - always optional stuff. However, when I was first starting out in this plane, or anything new to me, I would use the checklists first - that is how I trained on what to do.
You mentioned Denver at 5000 ft, but in the inlet air temperature was very cold. I’m curious on a hot day at high elevation if the ITT temperature would be more of a concern as opposed to sea level. Great video.
Logan, that is true, with the thinner air, all else being equal, the start would go a little hotter. I haven't seen a huge difference here, but if you were doing a quick stop just to get some fuel, and it was hot outside and high elevation, you'd certainly want to let the ITT cool as much as possible before adding fuel again. Additionally, on takeoff I normally go to 90% torque and let the increasing ram air as I speed up get me close to 100%, however on a high and hot takeoff you have to watch ITT as the limiter instead of torque. And you may want to turn off the inertial separator as your speed builds to get more cooling air in.
I have a simple question but it urges for me to know ... how many hours of single or multi engines piston prop you need to do to be able to fly a TBM? Thx for ansering 😎😉👍🏼
In the US, the insurance companies really drive it - the FAA requires you have your complex, high-performance, and high altitude endorsements but otherwise a normal single engine private certificate is all you need. However to get insured you will need an IFR rating, some reasonable amount of time in a high-perf piston (maybe >500 hrs, though there is no hard and fast rule) and ideally > 1000 hrs total time. They will also require a detailed initial training course and annual recurrent training. I had to do 25 hours of mentor/CFI time at the start also, which served me well.
Thanks
Perhaps one on the shut down procedure..
Nick Tucker I agree
Here’s a video idea, you could make one explaining how to use the auto pilot (aka Tesla mode). More than once in MS Flight Sim, I would skip the first waypoint in a landing approach and fly direct to the next waypoint. Once I hit the waypoint I selected, rather than proceeding to the next waypoint in the sequence, the TBM would do a 180 like it was heading for the waypoint I sought to skip. I wasn’t sure if that was me not knowing what I’m doing, or a glitch in the sim. Also, while I figured out how to use the heading mode and nav mode, I’m not sure what the approach mode does (but I’m guessing it concerns landing), and I’m not sure what the CRS knob does.
Hi Jason, awesome videos man. Whats the difference between this TBM 900 and the TBM 930/940, both exterior, interior and systems wise?
Exterior/airframe/engine are the same - main difference is the Garmin avionics - G1000, vs NXi, vs G3000. Interior has had some tweaks over the years, but mostly minor
Hi Jason, have a question:), when using GPU , after reaching ng54% you stay in lo idle or move to high idle before the guys remove the gpu connector outside? And from hi idle then you proceed to flight idle? Thanks, great video.
I just stayed in low idle until he was all done and out of the way, then went through high idle into flight idle.
Jason so the hi idle only purpose is for the feather process, during start you just pass from lo idle through hi idle directly to flight idle? What’s the other purpose of the hi idle ?
I generally don't use high idle. The exception is at shutdown we set it to high idle for 15 seconds to allow the bearings to cool a bit. And if I need to feather on the ground (to test that process) or to help out someone that needs to get near the plane (to unhook the GPU for example).
Hi Jason have another question what’s your email maybe you can help me thank you
After more than half a century of PT-6 improvements, you'd expect to have a "Start" button, which you push before folding your hands in your lap and waiting politely for light-up and idle.
Wholeheartedly agree! Maybe sometime in the next 50 years. :) . Still love the engine though, and still easier to start than a piston.
@@JasonFlies it finally happened! PT-6E in the NGX ... great success...
Great video but a suggestion, use multiple cameras and zoom in close on each one and then put all of the views on the screen at once. I could not really see the engine insteuments.
Nice
I have always been intrigued by the throttle on the 900/930s, how do you set cruise thrust?
it stays in the left-side for the entire flight (only use the right side of the h pattern for start up and shutdown). When in flight you can refer to the book to find the correct "% torque" setting for a given altitude and temperature aloft, but with the G1000 the gauge has a dynamically calculated box that shows the range of torque from normal to high-power cruise. That range is small at higher altitudes. I normally fly at the bottom of that range, in normal cruise.
Jason yes sir, thank you so much for your informative answer sir. My uncle is looking at a 700/850 or maybe even a 900/930. The TBMs are fantastic aircraft.
I’m also from the Austin area. I’m a line guy at KHYI. Come on over to Berry if you ever get the chance. We don’t get enough TBMs over here. Especially not 900s!
At 4:20 you talk about adding fuel by going to low idle but show a shot of the throttle at full power? Struck me as a little odd. Also, when is high idle feather used other than before TO procedures? How often do you use reverse after landing?
Yeah, you're right - was just the best picture I had of the throttle. :(
You don't use high idle except for starting (on really cold days) and testing the feathering. I use reverse after landing any time I don't need to roll way down the runway before exiting. It is cheaper to use reverse than to use wheel brakes, within reason. If I have to roll a good ways I may just go into beta, not full reverse, as that kicks up less dirt/rocks.
@@JasonFlies thanks for the reply! I apologize, I hope I didn’t sound critical, it was just a “hey wait a minute” moment for me. I’m surprised reverse is used that much, but very interesting.
Are 48 volt dc used for this plane from ground or battery?
It's a 24 volt system
Can't aircraft builders somehow automate that complex sequence? Just asking out of ignorance
Yeah, using FADEC many jets have fully automated starts. The PT6 doesn't have that - no computers involved. GE is working on a competing engine that does have FADEC though so I imagine P&W has doubled down their efforts there now - it's the way of the future - and no doubt way more expensive.
Where can I find a POH for the 930?
Jason, what are your insurance costs for the TBM?
Depends very much on your experience level and the value of the plane. I'd say a low amount would be $5-7k/year.
Jason thank you for the prompt reply!
These videos will all be useful when the Hotsart TBM 900 will come out for X-Plane, and of course for all die hard TBM lovers. Your video plus this one is great ruclips.net/video/25xlVkuEYdA/видео.html from Daher